From spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk Sat Sep 01 09:40:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24424 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 16:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 16:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 16:40:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:12 -0000 X-Sender: spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39528 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 08:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 08:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.96) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 08:48:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 73271 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2007 08:48:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OeCKKOEVM1m1QXG91ByMpaDv2QVTMbVsbG8BCE6RqcnFeACasHzcUu2bb_PleWjar7LMJKUILoDdCHkEUcPZnFM- Received: from [82.35.76.31] by web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:48:35 BST Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:48:35 +0100 (BST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <46D7C0CC.13018.4130276@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <375918.73075.qm@web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.189.96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Antonio/Tony None Subject: Re: Theos-World Odd times for the Odd Fellows -- X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=252124750; y=Z2ynjwM7Vt4MWVe6JxtZFESxmh36TT0bzZVn0yZd10cCG1IVsgoEsQ0 X-Yahoo-Profile: spirit777child Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41801 Thank you Adelasie that was very wise to hear and very warm. adelasie wrote: Hi Tony, Welcome to our discussion group. After years of studying occultism I would have to say that truth is what seems true to each individual in his or her own heart. None of us really knows enough to go farther than that. Helena Blavatsky was a brilliant woman and a great teacher, but first and foremost, she was a magnificent example of a good human being. She was kind and thoughtful, compassionate and selfless. She said once that in the last analysis, occultism is altruism. One could start there, in any definition of truth according to theosophy. Look in your heart for what you truly feel is the ideal human being, the kind of person you would most want to be, and try to be that person. Your own heart will guide you best. It is not at all a matter of study and intellectual achievement. It's a matter of doing the right thing. We all know, no matter what religion we belong to, what that is. The Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is a great place to start. All the best, Adelasie > > Antonio/Tony None wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm new to this group so please go easy on my ignorance. > I was just wondering after having read quite a few emails from the group what is the truth. > Now i know some people will say the truth is what you apply to your own life that makes it better for you to live. Others will enforce their opinions on me. All i would like to know is an honest account of the God vs Devil myth. > The Bible says that in the last days Lucifer will blind the world with his light and that it will be so poerful that many will become mesmerised. > Is this light not the Occult phiosophies spoken of on here each day? > I am just worried that if i start believing in all the philosopies that stem from the occult world that the God of the bible will condemn me. I know some of you would probably say that the God of the bible is the evil controlling force but what if that is what Lucifer wants you to belive? I hope you can see where im coming from and the issue that perplexes me. > I would appreciate some help on this matter. > > Many thanks > Spirit. > > adelasie wrote: > mkr, > > Keep that hope alive! It's so easy in these horrendous times to get > discouraged, but we may be sure it is true, "The darker the shadows, > the brighter the Light." The thing is that the shadows are a lot > easier for us to see than the Light, blinded as we are by the veils > of Maya. Nevertheless, the occultist can see past the illusion to the > many millions of examples of the nobility of the human spirit, and to > the tremendous help that is available to all from inner planes, as > long as we try, in our own small ways, to do the right thing. We all > know what that is, don't we? It is also said, and truly, that it is > darkest just before the dawn. The more I surf the net the more I > realize that there are huge numbers of people all over the world > working for our mutual benefit and salvation, and since every effort > for good helps the whole, what a wonderful encouragement it is to > have access to the knowledge that we are not alone in our efforts. > > Keep the faith! > Adelasie > > On 29 Aug 2007 at 10:45, M K Ramadoss wrote: > > > Adelasie: > > I agree. > > One of the important effects of the communication revolution that is taking > > place is that light shines on the wrong doings that go around the world. > > with cell phones, picture phones and video, wrongful and cruel and > > distructive activities get recorded and broadcast world wide even though > > world powers would very much keep them under wraps and misinform the people > > in the name of security and future welfare and sacrifice for the country and > > the world. It is my hope that we all will see a more peaceful world in our > > life times if the world does not get destroyed by human made accident. > > > > mkr > > > > On 8/29/07, adelasie wrote: > > > > > > MKR, > > > > > > From the point of view of occultism, the internet can be seen as a > > > huge step forward in humanity's development. Our current Kali Yuga, > > > technological/intellectual cycle has almost destroyed us so far, as > > > humanity has relentlessly used its talents for war and aggression, > > > and selfish gain and corruption, with the resulting threastened > > > destruction of our own habitat. But the revolution in electrical > > > communication (using electricity, one of the 49 creative fires, > > > however stepped down, of the Godhead) has provided us with the means > > > to actully contact our brothers and sisters globally on a much larger > > > scale than was ever before possible. It is almost as if we have > > > invented a prelude or corollary to telepathic communication, a > > > virtual mental stream of humanity. How we use this is of course > > > according to our ability, but the potential is enormous, in terms of > > > advancing the consciousness of the Unity of all Life. > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > On 29 Aug 2007 at 8:25, M K Ramadoss wrote: > > > > > > > You are right. From the day I saw Internet several years ago, I foresaw > > > the > > > > power of the technology and its potential for the future due to my > > > having > > > > grown up with computer technology. As a tool to provide and distribute > > > > information, it is unsurpassed, as can be seen what is happening > > > everyday. > > > > It is a pity that many of the older folks active in theosophical > > > matters, > > > > with a few rare exceptions such as late Dallas, are still sticking their > > > > heads in the sand like ostriches and not actively making use of the > > > Internet > > > > to disseminate the message of theosophy. It does not matter. The > > > Juggernaut > > > > is moving and either you get on it or be left behind for good.. My only > > > hope > > > > is to see lists like BN and this one to have a five and six digit > > > > circulation soon. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk Sat Sep 01 09:40:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 60385 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 16:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 16:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 16:40:29 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:26 -0000 X-Sender: spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2201 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 08:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 08:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web23408.mail.ird.yahoo.com) (217.146.189.93) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 08:45:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 27146 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2007 08:45:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: v_wJKgAVM1krTLcMFQ1CUD47alg7Z5HeDFHbFzXo Received: from [82.35.76.31] by web23408.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:45:51 BST Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:45:51 +0100 (BST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003601c7ebc2$adba77d0$0501010a@SUPERCORDE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <838971.25204.qm@web23408.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.189.93 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Antonio/Tony None Subject: Re: truth?Re: Theos-World Odd times for the Odd Fellow X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=252124750; y=VBwh-I8XGeZLlcmerIJCCqHNhqnbWTJApSOsEINzyZ3RwHrwdRLDPro X-Yahoo-Profile: spirit777child Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 Sep 2007 16:40:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41802 Hi Krishtar and all who replied to he question on truth. =20=20=20 Just for information sake i am from London UK born from Italian parents.= =20 Thank you all for your information and views. I like to read and see how = people think in relation to my thoughts and appreciate all your honesty and= feedback.=20 Krishtar i like your views with respects to letting go off these ideals t= hat hold me back from my spirtual progression and it reminds me slightly of= what the buddhist speak of when they mention illusions/maya. I just cant help feeling that we are in the end days. Wheter that means b= iblical appocolypse, new age movement or new world order i dont know yet bu= t i am very interested in how they all relate to each other and tie in. In = any case I would like to thank you all for welcoming me and hope to be a lo= ng term member of the group inturn learning more and growing more. =20=20=20 Peace and Blessings Antonio/Spirit krishtar wrote: Dear Antonio Welcome to this old but entirelly funcional theos-group, I hope you=B4ll fi= nd=20 good answers, good new questions and good directions to your researches=20 here. I am from Brazil, perhaps you=B4re from Portugal or Mexico, I don=B4t know. The truth is only one but sages came with different approaches and called i= t=20 many names. You=B4ll find it covered with misteries and objectiveness depending on the= =20 paths you choose. In Cristianism you=B4ll find a type of Divinity called Jeovah and God, Deus= ,=20 but very mixed with humanized views of a male God and His opposite, called= =20 Devil. I sincerely do not believe in most of what the Bible states about the natur= e=20 of God, I prefer the buddhist and Zen view because they don=B4t mix the div= ine=20 with the partial and limited view of many other religions, that mirrors=20 their prophet=B4s faulty views. All the views must be filtered by your awareness in order to build a=20 prejudice-free point of view and starting point. You can not, I my opiniom, believe in every "occult" philosophy, you have t= o=20 check it deeply, there is much falseness in the philosophies and schools=20 around us, but you have to develop a high sense of mindfullness. Internet is an open field of finding good books, good lectures, videos, muc= h=20 useful information that has t obe analized and filtered. Antonio, mu opiniom and by my own experience, if you want to dive into the= =20 world of awareness, you have to leave all those old baggages full of evil=20 Gods, Satan=E1s, Lucifers, Demons and dogmas, because they will prevent you= =20 from growing wiser and with more mindfullness. You can=B4t mix Bible=B4s views with western views, but you have to study t= he=20 roots of both. Contrasts will happen of course, but that=B4s the path. When you feel that you know enough to build your own renewed and dinamic=20 beliefs you can also meditate and discover the truth inside yourself, in=20 your inner silence. Imho, if there is an unlimited God, that is omniscient, omnipresent, - just= =20 as Thomas Merton, the trapist monk said - to dicover Him you=B4ll also need= to=20 be inlimited and omnipresent. This means that, to discover divinity and God you=B4ll need to become one w= ith=20 him. The first thing to disappear will be the Ego, because most of what is=20 written about truth is ego-centered and, thus, very limited. All occult records will state the same essence under many covers: the God=20 within and in All. Reagards Krishtar ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Antonio/Tony None To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Odd times for the Odd Fellows -- Hi all, I'm new to this group so please go easy on my ignorance. I was just wondering after having read quite a few emails from the group=20 what is the truth. Now i know some people will say the truth is what you apply to your own=20 life that makes it better for you to live. Others will enforce their=20 opinions on me. All i would like to know is an honest account of the God vs= =20 Devil myth. The Bible says that in the last days Lucifer will blind the world with his= =20 light and that it will be so poerful that many will become mesmerised. Is this light not the Occult phiosophies spoken of on here each day? I am just worried that if i start believing in all the philosopies that=20 stem from the occult world that the God of the bible will condemn me. I kno= w=20 some of you would probably say that the God of the bible is the evil=20 controlling force but what if that is what Lucifer wants you to belive? I=20 hope you can see where im coming from and the issue that perplexes me. I would appreciate some help on this matter. Many thanks Spirit. adelasie wrote: mkr, Keep that hope alive! It's so easy in these horrendous times to get discouraged, but we may be sure it is true, "The darker the shadows, the brighter the Light." The thing is that the shadows are a lot easier for us to see than the Light, blinded as we are by the veils of Maya. Nevertheless, the occultist can see past the illusion to the many millions of examples of the nobility of the human spirit, and to the tremendous help that is available to all from inner planes, as long as we try, in our own small ways, to do the right thing. We all know what that is, don't we? It is also said, and truly, that it is darkest just before the dawn. The more I surf the net the more I realize that there are huge numbers of people all over the world working for our mutual benefit and salvation, and since every effort for good helps the whole, what a wonderful encouragement it is to have access to the knowledge that we are not alone in our efforts. Keep the faith! Adelasie On 29 Aug 2007 at 10:45, M K Ramadoss wrote: > Adelasie: > I agree. > One of the important effects of the communication revolution that is=20 taking > place is that light shines on the wrong doings that go around the world. > with cell phones, picture phones and video, wrongful and cruel and > distructive activities get recorded and broadcast world wide even though > world powers would very much keep them under wraps and misinform the=20 people > in the name of security and future welfare and sacrifice for the country= =20 and > the world. It is my hope that we all will see a more peaceful world in=20 our > life times if the world does not get destroyed by human made accident. > > mkr > > On 8/29/07, adelasie wrote: > > > > MKR, > > > > From the point of view of occultism, the internet can be seen as a > > huge step forward in humanity's development. Our current Kali Yuga, > > technological/intellectual cycle has almost destroyed us so far, as > > humanity has relentlessly used its talents for war and aggression, > > and selfish gain and corruption, with the resulting threastened > > destruction of our own habitat. But the revolution in electrical > > communication (using electricity, one of the 49 creative fires, > > however stepped down, of the Godhead) has provided us with the means > > to actully contact our brothers and sisters globally on a much larger > > scale than was ever before possible. It is almost as if we have > > invented a prelude or corollary to telepathic communication, a > > virtual mental stream of humanity. How we use this is of course > > according to our ability, but the potential is enormous, in terms of > > advancing the consciousness of the Unity of all Life. > > > > Adelasie > > > > On 29 Aug 2007 at 8:25, M K Ramadoss wrote: > > > > > You are right. From the day I saw Internet several years ago, I=20 foresaw > > the > > > power of the technology and its potential for the future due to my > > having > > > grown up with computer technology. As a tool to provide and=20 distribute > > > information, it is unsurpassed, as can be seen what is happening > > everyday. > > > It is a pity that many of the older folks active in theosophical > > matters, > > > with a few rare exceptions such as late Dallas, are still sticking=20 their > > > heads in the sand like ostriches and not actively making use of the > > Internet > > > to disseminate the message of theosophy. It does not matter. The > > Juggernaut > > > is moving and either you get on it or be left behind for good.. My=20 only > > hope > > > is to see lists like BN and this one to have a five and six digit > > > circulation soon. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/977 - Release Date: 8/28/aaaa= =20 16:29 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this mon= th. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From raquel_rpj@yahoo.es Sat Sep 01 11:18:32 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: raquel_rpj@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1595 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 18:18:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 18:18:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 18:18:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 18:17:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 18:17:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2007 18:17:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:17:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.166.203.17 From: "raquel_rpj" Subject: Re: Odd times for the Odd Fellows -- X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=319886574; y=uD25G153JWLR1_JI2UI5hquIJQ92K-jcIY1NXW7snAOM4IMf4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: raquel_rpj X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41803 Well, thinking slowly about it, I just can give my opinion, based on=20 my limited personal expirience. I first heard the name of Babatsky, at the age of 24, before no idea=20 at all of her existence, not even to reject her. The jears I lived=20 in Holland, you can see as you walk on the street theophical book=20 stores with her books on the window. I have never seen such a think=20 here in Spain. I know there are a few, but if you google the word=20 Teosofia, you will have lots of confusing information, and=20 theosophical pages, end leading you to american lodges. So in this=20 country as far as I know, the doctrine it=B4s almost unknown. A woman that in her dead had been as much telegrafied in betwing two=20 continents, as a king or an emperor, must have been a remarkeble=20 person, says it=B4s biografy.=20 And maybe the most important is not to wander about numbers, but=20 activity. I mean when she was alive, she influenced also really=20 remarkeble people, like Gandhi, Einstein, Modrian. You talk their=20 names anywhere and they are known, but most people has forgotten=20 about her influence and seems not to be important anymore. And what is the way Theosophy is influencing, art, cience, and=20 politic worldly, nowadays?. If there is, I have not idea of it. Yes, maybe you are rigth, and some action shoul be taken.=20 Best Raquel --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M K Ramadoss" wrote: > > There is a very interesting articles in newsmedia with the above=20 title. >=20 > The article notes about the dwindling and aging membership. Members > are dying by the thousands, local lodges are closing by the dozens, > and the actual participation among the 290,000 members is dropping. > ... if members are not replenished, they will be Odd Men and Women=20 Out > -- defunct, extinct and done. >=20 > This newsreport, made me think of what is going on with the=20 theosophical > movement. The formal numbers as % of world population is=20 shrinking. It would > be very interesting if we can find out the age distribution and > replenishment > rate and that could indicate the trend and that should give us some > ideas what can be tried. Without such basic information, just=20 talking > about Brotherhood and Occultism and all the good things is not=20 going > to help the movement. >=20 > Any ideas?????? >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Sep 01 14:31:14 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59602 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2007 21:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2007 21:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2007 21:31:11 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.d02.19053e07 (29679) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:30:49 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5041 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Odd times for the Odd Fellows -- X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=mTQYU-GGRfwGFxfzUgastBiSBiGkgFG_qLPjjQZo7s1LXCa9Dg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41804 In a message dated 9/1/2007 1:19:41 PM Central Daylight Time, raquel_rpj@yahoo.es writes: And what is the way Theosophy is influencing, art, cience, and politic worldly, nowadays? It gives it something to laugh at. Chuck the Heretic ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Sep 01 17:31:02 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34539 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 00:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 00:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.238) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 00:31:00 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 00:29:50 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 00:29:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 00:29:50 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:29:47 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.238 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Theosophia" Magazine edited by Boris de Zirkoff - 2 Online Editions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=7X02ihAmkrOuUXWCDNDwJTBTbo-nAhTKSUsebSX7yrJeLhQweFxj9oGJ X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41805 "Theosophia" Magazine=20 edited by Boris de Zirkoff -=20 2 Online Editions I have updated our gateway page to include links to both online editions of Boris de Zirkoff's magazine "Theosophia". See: http://theosophia.ws The link to this magazine can be found at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpblinks.htm#Magazines This material can also always be found at: http://theosophylinks.net in the section on "Theosophical Magazines". Hope this helps. Daniel http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Sep 01 19:23:59 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10374 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 02:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 02:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.249) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 02:22:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 02:22:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 02:22:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2007 02:22:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:22:25 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: AN ENDURING FOUNDATION by Boris de Zirkoff X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=cnmW97mpIoeqeypYKLovOoUH3I4OOSKKvfq5OzDjM2uUJm2DAg5VPv0B X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41806 AN ENDURING FOUNDATION Boris de Zirkoff ----------------------------------------------------------- In the pages of our contemporary, Theosophical News and Notes, the=20 Journal of The Theosophical Society (Adyar) in the British Isles, in=20 its July-August and Sept.-Oct., 1958, issues, Dr. Laurence J. Bendit,=20 recently elected General-Secretary of the British Section, T.S.,=20 contributes editorially some pertinent remarks on the freedom of=20 thought in our Movement and the non-sectarian character of ideas=20 presented under the name of Theosophy. There is much in what he says that is most commendable, sensible, and=20 a needed reminder to most students. We are glad to see some of these=20 ideas clearly stated by the chief Official of a large and influential=20 Section, and to be told, for instance, that "there is ... no heresy=20 in Theosophy," that "everybody has the right to question the writings=20 even of those who are looked upon still, and with good reason, as=20 more-than-average students," - and that "deep study and understanding=20 should gradually lead to an intuitive feeling for what is the direct=20 line of truth, and what is truth distorted or misinterpreted." We are also thoroughly in agreement with the writer when he states=20 that "Wisdom can only be evoked from within, from a realm which is=20 beyond language and words," and that "humility and the sense of=20 wonderment which is the mark of every true Theosophist" are qualities=20 the loss of which is to be regretted whenever it is superceded by=20 a "know it all" attitude. But we cannot help feeling that the writer has somewhat hurriedly=20 given expression to certain ideas in both of his articles, which a=20 closer examination of existing evidence might have modified to a=20 considerable extent. It often happens that we find ourselves carried=20 away by our own most laudable feelings and convictions, and show a=20 tendency to go to extremes and to disregard certain other aspects of=20 the total picture. He finds it very unfortunate that some lecturers on the Theosophical=20 platform should use such expressions as "Theosophy teaches ..."=20 or "the teachings of Theosophy are ...," and that some people would=20 be "so bold as to set themselves up as Theosophical teachers." This=20 seems to him to be "quite inconsistent with the emphasis on freedom=20 of belief." "Yet," he adds, "when all is said and done, there is a=20 loose body of thought which seems to deserve the=20 label 'theosophical,' if only to distinguish it from other=20 philosophies ..." In his opinion, "Theosophy is neither eastern nor=20 western, neither ancient nor modern; neither has it any teachings or=20 teachers," because Theosophy is Wisdom, and one cannot teach Wisdom. It is precisely at this point that our esteemed author leaves the=20 solid ground of impartial research, and the sound intellectual=20 foundation of our work, and sails, perhaps quite unwittingly to=20 himself, into the domain of slogans and convenient cliches. Let us=20 look into this subject a little closer. The foundation-rock upon which the modern Theosophical Movement is=20 established, as far as its philosophy is concerned, is H.P.B.'s The=20 Secret Doctrine, a rather curious title to be used in a Movement=20 which is supposed to have no definite teachings. This work, let us=20 hasten to say before we are misunderstood, is no Theosophical Bible,=20 and its students are no bibliolaters sitting in raptured awe before=20 the unspeakable "revelation" contained in its pages. It is=20 neither "divinely" inspired, nor devoid of errors, neither a final=20 statement of all possible truth, nor anything more than a lifting of=20 a "corner of the veil," in the words of H.P.B. herself. But it is=20 most decidedly an authoritative declaration of a system of thought, a=20 statement of specific teachings, an outline of a "doctrine" whose=20 precepts, principles and positive assertions are as distinct,=20 unalterable and definitive as are the basic laws of chemistry,=20 physics, genetics or astronomy. Let there be no mistake about it. It=20 is not a "loose body of thought," not "by a long shot," to use an=20 Americanism. H.P.B.'s magnum opus is permeated through and through with some very=20 definite statements. It proclaims that "the Secret Doctrine is the=20 accumulated Wisdom of the Ages, and its cosmogony atone is the most=20 stupendous and elaborate system" (I, 272). It establishes "three=20 fundamental propositions," specifically defined and elaborately=20 explained (I, 14 et seq.) It speaks of the divine Substance-Principle=20 as "the fundamental Law in that system" (I, 273), and goes on to=20 outline a large number of teachings, based on facts of Nature, which=20 are in their sum-total the foundation-principles of the Esoteric=20 Philosophy (I, 273-82). Moreover, it never fails to point out that=20 these teachings were brought by higher Beings to nascent humanity,=20 and impressed upon its collective consciousness for its own good and=20 future growth. The pages of The Secret Doctrine, as well as of The Mahatma Letters,=20 teem with statements such as: "the esoteric philosophy=20 teaches," "theosophy establishes," "the Ancient Wisdom=20 proclaims," "the secret teachings state," and many other similar=20 expressions. If we consult our friend Webster, we will find that he defines a=20 doctrine as "that which is taught; what is held, put forth as true,=20 and supported by a teacher ..." He speaks of a dogma as a "doctrine=20 laid down with authority," but without necessarily an arrogant=20 insistence upon such authority. There can be little question of the=20 fact that the teachings of The Secret Doctrine are authoritative, put=20 forth as true, supported by teachers, namely, those original sources=20 of inspiration whence they came, and that, moreover, such teachings=20 are never arrogantly insisted upon, pushed down the throat of a=20 reluctant following, or insolently paraded as infallible or as the=20 last word of Truth. With these provisos, the postulates of. Theosophy=20 are most decidedly a doctrine, a system of thought, and a body of=20 teachings. And it is precisely because of the fact that H.P.B.'s writings and=20 the writings of her superiors, the Adept-Brothers, have been allowed=20 to be set aside for many years in certain portions of the=20 Theosophical Movement, and to gather dust on forgotten shelves, to=20 the advantage of pseudo-revelations by various psychics, that there=20 has grown among some students the totally erroneous idea that=20 Theosophy or the Esoteric Philosophy has no specific teachings to=20 proclaim, no definite doctrine to promulgate, and that almost=20 anything can and should be called Theosophical that is put forward by=20 sincere and well-intentioned, but self-deluded individuals, whose=20 sincerity can never be the guarantee of direct spiritual knowledge. If our writer means by "teachers" individuals who imagine they know=20 it all, and who feel themselves vastly superior to those others whom=20 they have decided to "teach" from the profundities of their own very=20 questionable understanding, we are in complete agreement with him=20 that such people injure our Movement, destroy self-confidence in=20 students, and make themselves ridiculous by filling the air with=20 empty word-weavings. But if by "teachers" are meant individuals who=20 have become through years of deep study proficient in the philosophy=20 of the ancient wisdom, have tried to live its precepts the best they=20 know how, and who are called upon, by their general karmic stage- setting, to help others to acquire a deeper understanding of=20 Theosophy than they already have, and to bring out from within their=20 own inner Selves the knowledge hidden therein, - then we will have to=20 let them be called by that time-honored title, which, in reality,=20 designates someone who shows, who imparts knowledge, who makes aware=20 of information, who guides, adjusts, and leads on towards a greater=20 vista and a wider horizon. Would any sincere Theosophist refuse the=20 privilege of becoming in due time a "leader of men," whose word and=20 whose life point out to others nobler and ever-receding horizons of=20 achievement, and show them the method to be used in their march=20 forward towards the Light? We see, therefore, that the "teachings" are much more than=20 a "statement of what Theosophists of all ages and nations have=20 discovered as a result of their own searches and experiences," as our=20 writer seems to think. If they were that, and nothing more, they=20 would contain some truth and a very large degree of uncertainty and=20 error, were they even the result of the understanding of exalted men,=20 such as the Adepts themselves. In reality, these "teachings" are a=20 formulation of the facts of Nature, irrespective of the opinions or=20 the views of any particular man or group of men concerning them, and=20 subject only to the limitations imposed upon our ways of expression=20 by the paucity of the languages employed. Essentially, as has been=20 said by H.P.B. and others, these "teachings" have been handed down=20 from one generation of Seers to another, and originated in the far=20 distant times of infant Humanity from spiritual Beings whose=20 knowledge and wisdom are of an order entirely above those of our=20 terrestrial mankind. When the student of the Esoteric Philosophy finds it stated that the=20 human constitution is composed of certain specific seven qualities of=20 substance and consciousness, or that the structure of the planet=20 includes a specified number of invisible globes, or that there exists=20 a certain definite co-ordination as between various Hierarchies of=20 Beings, or again that the succession of root-races and rounds follows=20 a certain specified pattern, and no other, and that the after-death=20 states of the human entity can be known with considerable certainty,=20 as a natural result of certain states of consciousness in embodied=20 existence, or that cycles stand in a certain numerical relation to=20 each other, - these proposition are as definite and positive, and we=20 might even say, as unalterable, as any proposition of chemistry,=20 physics, or mathematics. Is it dogmatic to assert that under normal conditions of atmospheric=20 pressure water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit, that the sum of the=20 angles of any triangle is 180 degrees of arc, and that the=20 acceleration of falling bodies is the same in Australia as in Europe?=20 Upon propositions as definite as these, and others like unto them,=20 are based some of our scientific structures. Upon equally definite=20 spiritual-intellectual propositions, derivative from facts in Nature,=20 are based those formulations of the Esoteric Philosophy which some=20 have called its teachings. There is no vague, loose uncertainty about=20 them. H2O is water everywhere on earth, irrespective of the opinions of=20 anybody. NaCl is common salt on all the five continents. The key to=20 the atomic era - E=3Dmc2 - does not depend upon human attitudes towards=20 it. As a matter of fact any constant is a numerical quantity=20 expressing some physical law or magnitude as a fixed relation,=20 because it is based on Nature's own operations, i.e., facts of=20 Nature. The same is applicable to psychic, intellectual and spiritual=20 facts in Nature's structure, as determinable by those who have=20 complied with the conditions necessary for the acquirement of that=20 knowledge. A professor of chemistry, physics or astronomy, presenting to his=20 audience a statement of alleged laws and numerical relations which=20 the experiments of the laboratory or observatory do not justify,=20 would have but scant chance of continuing his career as a professor,=20 although he might found a new school of thought, completely=20 satisfying to himself and some others, even if unrelated to the facts=20 of Nature. Similarly, an individual who would attempt to explain the structure=20 of the invisible worlds in a manner which the experience of=20 generations of Seers does not justify, and whose ideas, logical for=20 himself and perhaps a few others, do not stand in harmony with the=20 facts of Nature and collide head-on with the pronouncements of the=20 greatest spiritual minds evolved upon this earth, would have scant=20 chance at having his presentation become an integral part of a=20 workable philosophy of life, and endure for ages to come as consonant=20 with the facts of Nature. It has been our experience of recent years to find that Theosophical=20 Lodges in various parts of the world present such a sorry picture of=20 stagnation and somnolence precisely because their platform has often=20 nothing positive to offer to the public, and therefore the public is=20 conspicuous mainly by its absence, partial or total. The seeker after=20 truth and light, the individual, whoever he or she may be, who is=20 trying to find a solution to his troubles and a workable philosophy=20 of life, would welcome any speaker who would outline for him specific=20 yet undogmatic teachings concerning the nature of man and the=20 Universe, and give him definite keys with which to tackle his own=20 difficulties and open for himself a new treasure chamber of knowledge=20 within himself. If this is done by the speaker without bombast,=20 humbly, impersonally, and sympathetically, with dynamic conviction in=20 the truth of what he says, and with an attitude of companionship with=20 the one who seeks and asks, the result will be that the heart and=20 mind of the seeker will be deeply moved and something within his soul=20 will stir in response to the speaker. Enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm.=20 Conviction arouses response. Positive statements, backed by facts,=20 generate an attitude of positive endeavor on the part of the seeker,=20 and might do a lot more than that. What chance would any Lodge have to help others, if the visitor heard=20 it stated from its platform that Theosophy is but a loose body of=20 thought, that it has no real teachings or teachers, and that all it=20 can do for anyone is to lead him somewhere into a realm of blue=20 ether, beyond language and words! To judge by some of the gatherings we have attended from time to=20 time, certain lecturers achieve an eminent success in this sort of=20 voluble emptiness, with the result that promising people in search of=20 truth never come back. No, my friends and brothers, the Esoteric Philosophy is something far=20 more definite and dynamic than some apparently imagine it to be. It=20 is the direct heir to the innate knowledge of super-human, quasi- divine Beings, or at least that much of this infinite knowledge as=20 our finite minds can grasp today. It is a system of thought embodying=20 in itself the positive experience of generations of Seers, Adepts,=20 Initiates, whose personal and direct acquaintance with the operations=20 of Nature - a clinical observation, we might say, of its functions,=20 behind the veil of the visible - places them in a position to state=20 with no uncertainty whatsoever what are the facts of Nature, and to=20 outline its laws. Students of Theosophy, whether in organized Theosophical Societies or=20 not, have not only the opportunity and the privilege, but also the=20 duty of offering to those who seek for light a consistent and all- embracing philosophy of life, wherein the philosophical, the=20 religious and the scientific elements blend together in a harmonious=20 system, vitalized moreover by noble ethical precepts upon which to=20 erect a life of constructive endeavor. If The Theosophical Society of=20 the present era had no philosophy to present to the world, and no=20 system of thought to promulgate, it would be but another useless=20 excrescence upon the decaying stump of materialism, another=20 worthless "ism," to be swept away by the revolution of time into the=20 mounting heap of discarded human delusions. It is up to everyone of us, to see that the banner of Theosophy fly=20 high over the battlements of human thought, so that others can see it=20 and rally to the Universal Cause it stands for. ----------------------------------------------------------- First published in THEOSOPHIA, Volume XV No. 2 (76) - Fall 1958 See: http://theosophia.ws Daniel http://hpb.cc From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 02:51:23 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3369 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 09:51:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 09:51:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.239) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 09:51:20 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t16so1118750wxc for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.90.3 with SMTP id n3mr3245390agb.1188726659311; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 02:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 04:50:59 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.239 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Mabel Collins - Author of Light on the Path X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=HsfIyD_Q3KE1FGtJPSANgQJr-fNmH9GySv-1Mxb4SkjUA-hZyTo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41807 Light on the Path is a theosophical classic. The story of the author, is fascinating. Very few knew that she was asked by HPB to leave TS. A very interesting biographical summary can be found at the URL below. The title of the writeup is: The Many Lives of Mabel Collins www.kimfarnell.co.uk/mabel1.htm mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 03:06:00 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80319 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 10:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 10:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.236) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 10:05:58 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so1188516wxd for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 03:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.13 with SMTP id d13mr3247505agd.1188727556965; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 03:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 03:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 05:05:56 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Marketing Theosophical Society/theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=9BBHWTY6WcTM9fwEaEENWPZMMJt3-z5frpcnSr2so5lbjfqPm4Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41808 Eldon had earlier posted a msg regarding the ad TSA is posting on Google. When I was checking my e-mail at gmail.com a link appeared at the top. It led to the following URL. Theosophical Society In America is a Fellowship Organization in the Chicago Metro Area. http://www.theosophical2.org/ ============================================= Here is an excerpt from the website: ============================================= What We Do The Theosophical Society in America is the National Center of a world fellowship organization, located in the Chicago Metro Area. The Society has a vision of wholeness that inspires a fellowship united in study, meditation, and service. Our Mission is to encourage open-minded inquiry into world religions, philosophy, science, and the arts in order to understand the wisdom of the ages, respect the unity of all life, and help people explore spiritual self-transformation. The Society holds that every action, feeling, and thought affects all other beings and that each of us is capable of and responsible for contributing to the benefit of the whole. Membership is determined by your agreement with this mission. =================================================== MKR: >From the above it looks like you do not have to believe in the first object as it has been there for over a century. It is also strange that meditation has brought into the focus. May be, it was included because it may attract many interested in meditation for their own reasons. Hopefully, it would revive interest in theosophy!!! mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Sven04@comhem.se Sun Sep 02 11:06:02 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Sven04@comhem.se X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31281 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 18:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 18:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net) (80.76.149.213) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 18:05:59 -0000 Received: from c83-253-206-194.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.206.194]:1259 helo=sveinn-fp1krz97.comhem.se) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1IRto9-0003T8-7k for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:04:25 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:41:19 +0200 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: X-Authenticated: u13406688@ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 470cc34b93cc6cb9a972c7e3ccfa3588 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1IRto9-0003T8-7k. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1IRto9-0003T8-7k 3d509f08799e96bb5c9c19367fc0b50d X-Originating-IP: 80.76.149.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sveinn Freyr Subject: Re: What is truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=288703295; y=4d12Ux91WMuOEZOV-dYyuv0tu39eFxfQ7KHOH8KMTjvO X-Yahoo-Profile: ari343 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41809 Truth is a liberating substance released by the inner heart. ~ S. F. From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 13:57:55 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12321 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 20:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 20:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.236) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 20:57:52 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i31so1249610wxd for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.113.18 with SMTP id l18mr3429362agc.1188766671151; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:57:51 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=9poF6TN3squ6koWSyPa7zZhO0m2x3oeZN97hUkTxOl6EUSOIw0o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41810 Over a four decade ago, I received several mailouts from the Lucis Trust. It appears that the Trust is well endowded and seem not to have any problem with money. One wonders how bailey attracted affluent who could fund the work of the trust. I saw the following in the url listed: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_collins_bloodline.htm "And it is possible that a few of the Rockefellers joined Lucis Trust which is an extension of Theosophy a well as members of the Hall family such as Manly P. Hall whose wife was a Bauer (very likely part of the Rothschild bloodline.)" Any one has any detailed info on the funding of the trust? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 14:19:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74328 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 21:19:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 21:19:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.231) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 21:19:15 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h30so1251465wxd for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.98.3 with SMTP id v3mr1598060agb.1188767949292; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 14:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:19:09 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Online Material -Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=0YhfR8f4X_FJA84q8Q_DnUCJ92u_pXiH0EVCG4ifIYCMYnfJF2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41811 You may want to visit and enjoy some of the on-line material at the following URL http://www.tphta.ws/index.htm mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Sep 02 15:44:02 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75565 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 22:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 22:44:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 22:44:00 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.ca5.1807a435 (52636) for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 18:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-md07 (webmail-md07.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.145]) by cia-d14.mx.aol.com (v119.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAD142-cd9c46db3ca21c8; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:43:46 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:43:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 30128 Received: from 76.230.210.59 by webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.145) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:43:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8C9BBC9DB4DDEEB-474-50C8@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.145 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: What is truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=6ov8TonhXiBlX5B6ci77oWOsCIICTOUBoLvXzsNwXdUZwaT-iA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41812 No, that is blood. Chuck the Heretic -----Original Message----- From: Sveinn Freyr To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:41 pm Subject: Theos-World Re: What is truth Truth is a liberating substance released by the inner heart. ~ S. F. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Sep 02 15:45:58 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76182 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 22:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 22:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 22:45:57 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.bfe.1e9fe5cb (60468) for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 18:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-md07 (webmail-md07.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.145]) by ciaaol-m02.mx.aol.com (v119.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM021-ec3446db3d18ae; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:45:44 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:45:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 30128 Received: from 76.230.210.59 by webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.145) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:45:44 -0400 Message-Id: <8C9BBCA21A89629-474-50D4@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.145 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=KMIuEI8Ynix9UiCC8lkdQY8QlaWTqlUwlOEdu_8WpTnYLHSNXw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41813 Many years ago the Master DK got lost, as he often does, and landed in the Rockefeller's bedroom.? What he saw there gave him enough material to blackmail them for the next thousand years. Chuck the Heretic -----Original Message----- From: M K Ramadoss To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 3:57 pm Subject: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust Over a four decade ago, I received several mailouts from the Lucis Trust. It appears that the Trust is well endowded and seem not to have any problem with money. One wonders how bailey attracted affluent who could fund the work of the trust. I saw the following in the url listed: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_collins_bloodline.htm "And it is possible that a few of the Rockefellers joined Lucis Trust which is an extension of Theosophy a well as members of the Hall family such as Manly P. Hall whose wife was a Bauer (very likely part of the Rothschild bloodline.)" Any one has any detailed info on the funding of the trust? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From scribe@rs.org Sun Sep 02 16:46:54 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: scribe@rs.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3262 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 23:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 23:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outbound-smtp.internetmailserver.net) (64.79.170.125) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 23:46:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 17988 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 23:45:47 -0000 Received: from user-142gqgu.cable.mindspring.com (HELO AMD64) (scribe@rs.org@[72.40.106.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mta00.internetmailserver.net with SMTP for ; 2 Sep 2007 23:45:46 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> To: Cc: "scribe" References: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:45:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Originating-IP: 64.79.170.125 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Scribe" Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243178575; y=9bmP-V9dKhsHRHUAKYxjsuYDe5HFP1DHHWnsyOPFIDk6Uq2r X-Yahoo-Profile: scribe_rs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41814 mkr, I have studied all of AAB's books just like I've studied all of HPB's books. AAB's work does seem like a continuation of HPB's, as she references the Secret Doctrine frequently. However, the 'Lucis Trust' part has always bothered me because AAB's later books seemed to be too much enamored of the United Nations and the New World Order. I consider those organizations to be, while high-sounding, nevertheless mere fronts for global totalitarianism, or Socialism/Communism. That does not seem to me to be the goal of esotericism or Theosophy. So I have often wondered at the dichotomy, or have I missed something? Scribe ----- Original Message ----- From: M K Ramadoss To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com ; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust Over a four decade ago, I received several mailouts from the Lucis Trust. It appears that the Trust is well endowded and seem not to have any problem with money. One wonders how bailey attracted affluent who could fund the work of the trust. I saw the following in the url listed: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_collins_bloodline.htm "And it is possible that a few of the Rockefellers joined Lucis Trust which is an extension of Theosophy a well as members of the Hall family such as Manly P. Hall whose wife was a Bauer (very likely part of the Rothschild bloodline.)" Any one has any detailed info on the funding of the trust? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 16:57:52 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39305 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2007 23:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2007 23:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.239) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2007 23:57:51 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so1420125wxd for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.99.20 with SMTP id w20mr3449784agb.1188777397544; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 18:56:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.239 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=-cpRtB1oyeWgvoanrqIkU-Shs_t7fcxs7SxQu3ymoEjsEQs4eV8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41815 When money and spirituality mix, it yields a dangerous compound. When politics is added, it becomes more combustible. So I think it may be so with LT as well. mkr On 9/2/07, Scribe wrote: > > mkr, > I have studied all of AAB's books just like I've studied all of HPB's > books. AAB's work does seem like a continuation of HPB's, as she references > the Secret Doctrine frequently. However, the 'Lucis Trust' part has always > bothered me because AAB's later books seemed to be too much enamored of the > United Nations and the New World Order. I consider those organizations to > be, while high-sounding, nevertheless mere fronts for global > totalitarianism, or Socialism/Communism. That does not seem to me to be the > goal of esotericism or Theosophy. So I have often wondered at the dichotomy, > or have I missed something? > Scribe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: M K Ramadoss > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com ; > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:57 PM > Subject: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust > > Over a four decade ago, I received several mailouts from the Lucis Trust. > It > appears that the Trust is well endowded and seem not to have any problem > with money. One wonders how bailey attracted affluent who could fund the > work of the trust. I saw the following in the url listed: > > http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_collins_bloodline.htm > > "And it is possible that a few of the Rockefellers joined Lucis Trust > which > is an extension of Theosophy a well as members of the Hall family such as > Manly P. Hall whose wife was a Bauer (very likely part of the Rothschild > bloodline.)" > > Any one has any detailed info on the funding of the trust? > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 19:05:22 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25482 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 02:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 02:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 02:05:02 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:04:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:04:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:04:26 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.220 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Theosophical Online Libraries of Books, Articles, etc. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=WcO1mZ_zOk0lIegKyAz90sQ5dNfRLzYgSSyFLY0WHJhSeOLO2YKzVZyU X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41816 Theosophical Online Libraries of Books/Articles/Documents/Talks/Media/etc.=20=20=20=20 I have compiled an extensive list of Online Libraries of Theosophical books, articles, etc. See the list at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpblinks.htm#Libraries This page can also ALWAYS be accessed at: http://theosophylinks.net Hope this helps. If anyone knows of other online libraries of Theosophical material, please email me and I will add these to the current list. Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 19:15:45 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87300 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 02:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 02:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 02:15:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:15:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:15:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.195] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:15:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:15:14 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Brief Introductions to H. P. Blavatsky's Life X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=dlMU2jCoV4Wku6lRem4f6sTxdAtCwAKcx5C5V-xoxAOTUb9TeyW7yWgG X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41817 Brief Introductions=20 to H. P. Blavatsky's Life=20 We have updated our webpage on the above subject with the addition of a number of good biographical sketches of H.P.B. See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbintrobio.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 19:37:02 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40810 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 02:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 02:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 02:35:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:34:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:33:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:33:58 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.10 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "H. P. Blavatsky" from Encyclopedia of Religion [new 2nd edition] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=L8HN3UBS_Xuh1HTATRXWbiKrYyYTAiBmBbiVUYLh3gmqmX_IJ7TO0DoZ X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41818 "H. P. Blavatsky" from Encyclopedia of Religion [new 2nd edition] (via BookRags) The new 2nd edition of the "Encyclopedia of Religion" (the scholarly multi-volume encyclopedia on the religions of the world, past and present, east and west) gives the following biographical article on H.P. Blavatsky. See: http://www.bookrags.com/Madame_Blavatsky#br_2 I see that my book THE ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY is listed in=20 this new biographical article! Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 19:46:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83946 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 02:44:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 02:44:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 02:44:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:44:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:44:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 02:44:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:44:22 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.30.213 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Major Introductions to H.P. Blavatsky's Life and Work X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=Eml4SnOCEF9fitoWZB-7UE9wqBpoSpR66wT6a8XQRNvwg92uiDsDNVBt X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41819 Major Introductions to H.P. Blavatsky's=20 Life and Work=20 See updated version of this webpage at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbmajorintro.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 02 21:37:16 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95878 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 04:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 04:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.232) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 04:37:14 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so1361121wxd for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.89.5 with SMTP id m5mr3542592agb.1188794227774; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 21:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:37:07 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002601c7ebe8$1700b1d0$6501a8c0@AMD64> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57731.18104.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <002601c7ebe8$1700b1d0$6501a8c0@AMD64> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.232 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Re: Theos-World What is truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=7Ee5F8p1DCtziWt7VLD9JeXF5OQYqzk2BJbmtfzdT2zaDF8Bm1w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41820 Here is a good writeup: See url http://www.tphta.ws/TPH_WHIT.HTM What is Truth? - H P Blavatsky Blavatsky:Collected Writings (Lucifer, Vol. I, No. 6, February, 1888, pp. 425-433) mkr On 8/31/07, Scribe wrote: > > I would interpret that as 'truth is unalloyed', which is a standard > theosophical concept. In other words, truth is One, or The One. Every > emanation or differentiation from [the] One fractures, or divides, the > perfect One and incorporates or introduces that much more 'un-truth', or > 'unperfection'. I guess you could say that 'truth' is 'God' [the 'One'] > and 'God' [the'One'] is 'truth', and as far as one is away from the 'One' > is one that far from truth [because there is that much imperfection]. > > Scribe > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is truth > > Hi John, > You are so intellectual that I haven't a clue what you are talking about. > Truth is the absence of error, which means it must apply to all men at all > times. I guess we have to understand Error to know truth? > > Cass > > Augoeides-222@comcast.net wrote: > Christine and all, > Yes, many views of "Truth" the final Primal Religion of H. P. B. ! Here we > all are participants in the inescapable "relativity of truth" which > reflexive of the apparant creation is subject to imperfection the hallmark > of he secondary worlds. Here Absolutes are forever unobtainable like the > value of the circle "PI" it extends to infinity but never is perfected. Once > many years ago in the very phenomenal UFO Case while the Experiencer was in > full Projection and the "Vessel of Light" was the presented Personality I > asked the question directly "What is Truth?" I was presented with the most > succinct definition without the slightest lag or hesitation "Truth is the > absence of error." Well, I at first never had this definition clubbed into > my forehead in quite the same manner before, and my reaction was this is so > simplistic! But it was at the same time the most correct Philosophical and > Spiritual definition in the most succinct form, which in the Hindu is valued > for best and ideal > co > mmunication of essential realities. The Absence of Error is a Doctrinal > cornerstone that can define the "Absolute" of the Mahatma's and the S.D. > postulate, as proposed by Blavatsky and the Mahatma's. If we can consider > where this condition of "Absence of Error" in perfected form resides, then > it is a process of the sieve of the Philosophers. One must in the end admit > there can be only one residence and habitation of the Transcendental State > of the Innate Quintessence of Primordial Truth where not a single > imperfection of Jnana is found. And that is what they called the Absolute > Uncreate where Truth is The Virgin Wisdom. The Primordial Native > Consciousness is the unmarked, unchanged, essential spark or ray so to > speak, that we each have participation in and of, even while the secondary > instruments of mind , perceptions, organs of sense have sway in relative > degree during our individual pilgrimages in the immeasurable streams and > rivers of our journeys. It is the Alpha and > Omega. Th > e AUM. The Pure Living Water and Solvent of Life without end. We have > Origin of Truth Beyond the Beyond and we return to the same. It is the > Fathers Will that his children return to him, stated in a Hermetic > aphroiaphorisms Truth that facilitates the expansion and contractions of > appearance and withdrawal. Truth is a necessary Consort. Karma itself is a > contrast to Truth itself. "Truth is the Absence of Error" is succinct but is > also pregnant and profound. > > Best regards, > John > ----------- Original message -------------- > From: "christinaleestemaker" > > > > Hi > Good question > I think truth can be in the middle of the circle > and the circle means a lot of possibilities in which is one essence > of that. > In other words Circle can be the whole universe within all > its potentions.As a hologram. > > All in one and the one in All > > Christina > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > Antonio/Tony None > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm new to this group so please go easy on my ignorance. > > I was just wondering after having read quite a few emails from > the group what is the truth. > > Now i know some people will say the truth is what you apply to > your own life that makes it better for you to live. Others will > enforce their opinions on me. All i would like to know is an honest > account of the God vs Devil myth. > > The Bible says that in the last days Lucifer will blind the world > with his light and that it will be so poerful that many will become > mesmerised. > > Is this light not the Occult phiosophies spoken of on here each > day? > > I am just worried that if i start believing in all the > philosopies that stem from the occult world that the God of the bible > will condemn me. I know some of you would probably say that the God > of the bible is the evil controlling force but what if that is what > Lucifer wants you to belive? I hope you can see where im coming from > and the issue that perplexes me. > > I would appreciate some help on this matter. > > > > Many thanks > > Spirit. > > > > adelasie wrote: > > mkr, > > > > Keep that hope alive! It's so easy in these horrendous times to get > > discouraged, but we may be sure it is true, "The darker the > shadows, > > the brighter the Light." The thing is that the shadows are a lot > > easier for us to see than the Light, blinded as we are by the veils > > of Maya. Nevertheless, the occultist can see past the illusion to > the > > many millions of examples of the nobility of the human spirit, and > to > > the tremendous help that is available to all from inner planes, as > > long as we try, in our own small ways, to do the right thing. We > all > > know what that is, don't we? It is also said, and truly, that it is > > darkest just before the dawn. The more I surf the net the more I > > realize that there are huge numbers of people all over the world > > working for our mutual benefit and salvation, and since every > effort > > for good helps the whole, what a wonderful encouragement it is to > > have access to the knowledge that we are not alone in our efforts. > > > > Keep the faith! > > Adelasie > > > > On 29 Aug 2007 at 10:45, M K Ramadoss wrote: > > > > > Adelasie: > > > I agree. > > > One of the important effects of the communication revolution that > is taking > > > place is that light shines on the wrong doings that go around the > world. > > > with cell phones, picture phones and video, wrongful and cruel and > > > distructive activities get recorded and broadcast world wide even > though > > > world powers would very much keep them under wraps and misinform > the people > > > in the name of security and future welfare and sacrifice for the > country and > > > the world. It is my hope that we all will see a more peaceful > world in our > > > life times if the world does not get destroyed by human made > accident. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > On 8/29/07, adelasie wrote: > > > > > > > > MKR, > > > > > > > > From the point of view of occultism, the internet can be seen > as a > > > > huge step forward in humanity's development. Our current Kali > Yuga, > > > > technological/intellectual cycle has almost destroyed us so > far, as > > > > humanity has relentlessly used its talents for war and > aggression, > > > > and selfish gain and corruption, with the resulting threastened > > > > destruction of our own habitat. But the revolution in electrical > > > > communication (using electricity, one of the 49 creative fires, > > > > however stepped down, of the Godhead) has provided us with the > means > > > > to actully contact our brothers and sisters globally on a much > larger > > > > scale than was ever before possible. It is almost as if we have > > > > invented a prelude or corollary to telepathic communication, a > > > > virtual mental stream of humanity. How we use this is of course > > > > according to our ability, but the potential is enormous, in > terms of > > > > advancing the consciousness of the Unity of all Life. > > > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > > > On 29 Aug 2007 at 8:25, M K Ramadoss wrote: > > > > > > > > > You are right. From the day I saw Internet several years ago, > I foresaw > > > > the > > > > > power of the technology and its potential for the future due > to my > > > > having > > > > > grown up with computer technology. As a tool to provide and > distribute > > > > > information, it is unsurpassed, as can be seen what is > happening > > > > everyday. > > > > > It is a pity that many of the older folks active in > theosophical > > > > matters, > > > > > with a few rare exceptions such as late Dallas, are still > sticking their > > > > > heads in the sand like ostriches and not actively making use > of the > > > > Internet > > > > > to disseminate the message of theosophy. It does not matter. > The > > > > Juggernaut > > > > > is moving and either you get on it or be left behind for > good.. My only > > > > hope > > > > > is to see lists like BN and this one to have a five and six > digit > > > > > circulation soon. > > > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit > now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Building a website is a piece of cake. > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 01:19:29 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56004 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 08:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 08:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.71) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 08:19:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 08:17:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 08:17:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:17:25 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.165 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=3FL2f2iWuQ6-1YZG4zYIlomLWWf_d8MByJNw6W-5E1_shVR5 X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41821 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Scribe" wrote: > Trust' part has always bothered me because AAB's later books seemed=20 > to be too much enamored of the United Nations and the New World=20 > Order. I consider those organizations to be, while high-sounding,=20 > nevertheless mere fronts for global totalitarianism, or=20 > Socialism/Communism. That does not seem to me to be the goal of=20 > esotericism or Theosophy. So I have often wondered at the=20 > dichotomy, or have I missed something? Of course you have missed. Bailey in one of her books condemns=20 communist regime of USSR and predicts its end. Though she regarded=20 German nazism and Jewish zionizm more dangerous, as nation and=20 separation-oriented, while the communist evil she branded as a=20 gangster-like. Her "new world order" is rather akin to that globalization which now=20 antiglobalists fight against than with communism. You may read much critics on Christian fundamentalist sites where=20 Bailey and newage movement are identified with new liberal world=20 order. By the way, Lucis Trust is not so rich organization as some think. They have not enough money even to preserve their library and prevent=20 paper decay by gas processing. From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Sep 03 04:05:58 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50362 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 11:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 11:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.227) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 11:05:56 -0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t14so1415542wxc for ; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.105.19 with SMTP id d19mr3753132agc.1188817531263; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.30.17 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 04:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 06:05:31 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.227 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "M K Ramadoss" Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=_W2x8QGQG-zAROOLKtxDJqHgKpnU7YHSTy6DK6omDX-0SH9qaB4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41822 Thanks for the info. As for preservation of the documents, scanning is perhaps a long term solution. I am sure they would be looking into it. mkr On 9/3/07, Konstantin Zaitzev wrote: > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > "Scribe" wrote: > > > Trust' part has always bothered me because AAB's later books seemed > > to be too much enamored of the United Nations and the New World > > Order. I consider those organizations to be, while high-sounding, > > nevertheless mere fronts for global totalitarianism, or > > Socialism/Communism. That does not seem to me to be the goal of > > esotericism or Theosophy. So I have often wondered at the > > dichotomy, or have I missed something? > > Of course you have missed. Bailey in one of her books condemns > communist regime of USSR and predicts its end. Though she regarded > German nazism and Jewish zionizm more dangerous, as nation and > separation-oriented, while the communist evil she branded as a > gangster-like. > Her "new world order" is rather akin to that globalization which now > antiglobalists fight against than with communism. > You may read much critics on Christian fundamentalist sites where > Bailey and newage movement are identified with new liberal world > order. > > By the way, Lucis Trust is not so rich organization as some think. > They have not enough money even to preserve their library and prevent > paper decay by gas processing. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From scribe@rs.org Mon Sep 03 07:48:54 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: scribe@rs.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66120 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 14:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 14:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outbound-smtp.internetmailserver.net) (64.79.170.125) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 14:48:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 14464 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 14:47:47 -0000 Received: from user-142gqgu.cable.mindspring.com (HELO AMD64) (scribe@rs.org@[72.40.106.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mta02.internetmailserver.net with SMTP for ; 3 Sep 2007 14:47:47 -0000 Message-ID: <003801c7ee39$6591f7c0$6501a8c0@AMD64> To: Cc: "scribe" References: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 10:47:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Originating-IP: 64.79.170.125 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Scribe" Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243178575; y=PS25y511ljKS-vlxOUliGjleaBnmahGYLDm3g_9EsAUN1ToW X-Yahoo-Profile: scribe_rs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41823 Sorry, but I see through your obfuscation of my important question by your usual defence of Communism but now are equating my question as akin to the Christian fundamentalists. I am beginning to think if you pounce on me then I'm on the right track. ;) If anyone will study AAB's works you will see a gradual shift toward a focus upon a group of "New World Servers," which sounds good as far as that goes but in the end you see it becomes part and parcel with the UN and the like and then you realize all this is funded by something called "the Lucis Trust." I catch the taint of subversion here; when did Lucis come into AAB's writings and turn the whole of her work into being a tool of the NWO? I am rereading her books now and they--the early ones--are truly highly esoteric and Theosophic. Did a shift take place within her? was she taken over by another "Master"? Scribe ----- Original Message ----- From: Konstantin Zaitzev To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 4:17 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Scribe" wrote: > Trust' part has always bothered me because AAB's later books seemed > to be too much enamored of the United Nations and the New World > Order. I consider those organizations to be, while high-sounding, > nevertheless mere fronts for global totalitarianism, or > Socialism/Communism. That does not seem to me to be the goal of > esotericism or Theosophy. So I have often wondered at the > dichotomy, or have I missed something? Of course you have missed. Bailey in one of her books condemns communist regime of USSR and predicts its end. Though she regarded German nazism and Jewish zionizm more dangerous, as nation and separation-oriented, while the communist evil she branded as a gangster-like. Her "new world order" is rather akin to that globalization which now antiglobalists fight against than with communism. You may read much critics on Christian fundamentalist sites where Bailey and newage movement are identified with new liberal world order. By the way, Lucis Trust is not so rich organization as some think. They have not enough money even to preserve their library and prevent paper decay by gas processing. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 08:21:00 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26404 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 15:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 15:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.110) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 15:20:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:20:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:20:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:20:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:20:36 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.26.26 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "...we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."??? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=S8UG9py-uPq-qhRLLNRzK2eFsTOw-0TdvIY-661THlFTJYb9yY7Cg1-Z X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41824 "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called moral code or the ideas of truthfulness, purity, self-denial, charity, etc., we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy." Quoted from a letter from the Chohan http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-choh.htm So exactly what do we preach and popularise? Are there certain teachings that constitute this "theosophy"? And if so, what are these teachings? And where do we find these teachings? And how do we learn them and study them so that in turn we can "preach and popularise" them? And who is "we"? The leaders of the TS? Elected officials of the TS? Any member of the TS?=20 And remember there is more than one TS or theosophical organization=20 or association. Can non-members preach and popularise this theosophy? And in this same letter, the Chohan tells us: ------------------------------------------------- The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one, must, -- supported by such evidence as we are preparing to give become ultimately triumphant as every other truth. Yet it is absolutely necessary to inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories, unimpeachable facts for those who know, with direct inferences deducted from and corroborated by the evidence furnished by modern exact science.... Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym of truth.... ------------------------------------------------- This is quite a CLAIM. "The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one...." So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one" and where can we find an exposition of this teaching? Is it to be found in THE SECRET DOCTRINE written by H.P. Blavatsky? Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's "Man,=20 Whence, How, and Whither: A Record of Clairvoyant Investigation"? Or in a book by Alice Bailey? or....in a book by Elizabeth Claire=20 Prophet? If "we" are to popularise a knowledge of Theosophy, what exactly do we popularise? Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE? What if I start popularising the teaching of reincarnation that includes the provision that humans can sometimes be reborn as animals? Am I faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE? And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting the DOCTRINE? In other words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE "doctrine" is? The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE is all about, so where and how does one [an inquirer, a newcomer] discover what the DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in SUCH high regard? Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 08:26:14 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72089 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 15:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 15:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 15:26:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:23:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:23:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:23:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:23:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.117 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.26.26 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Did Leadbeater plagiarize the books of the Tibetan?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=2DNzIraUDeY4ENoNcseVq0SoOBVom8z5Vki6NXdqkGwyMbmo5CEibhG9 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41825 "Did Leadbeater plagiarize the books of the Tibetan?" The Tibetan writes (The Rays and the Initiations, pp. 250-251): ----------------------------------------------------- There are certain phases of teaching and knowledge which I have given to the world which are relatively new - new to the modern esotericist and occult student though not new to disciples and initiates. It might be useful here if I mentioned one or two of these new aspects of the fundamental Truth which have been given by me to the public. If these new phases of the teaching have been later given to the public by other occult groups, it will have been because the information was gained by those who have read the books put out by A.A.B. for me or who are directly and consciously in touch with my Ashram. An instance of this is that book by C. W. Leadbeater on "The Masters and the Path" which was published later than my book, Initiation, Human and Solar. If the dates of any given teaching are compared with that given by me, it will appear to be of a later date than mine. I say this with no possible interest in any controversy among occult groups or the interested public, but as a simple statement of fact and as a protection to this particular work of the Hierarchy. I would remind you that the instructions given by me as, for instance, those in A Treatise on White Magic and A Treatise on the Seven Rays were given sequentially over a period of years, antedating the publishing of the books. The same time-factor prevailed in the publishing of the earlier books. All my books were written over a long period of years, prior to publishing. All that appears of the same type of information over other signatures harks back to these books. Even if denied by their writers, a comparison of the dates of publishing with the original dates of issuing the instructions (in the form of monthly sets for reading and study in the Arcane School) or with the books published before the formation in 1925 of the Disciples [251] Degree of the Arcane School will prove this conclusively. Bear in mind this factor of timing. A.A.B. takes down to my dictation an average of seven to twelve pages of typing (single-spaced) each time she writes for me; but owing to the exigencies of my work I cannot dictate to her every day, though I have found that she would gladly take my dictation daily if I so desired; weeks sometimes elapse between one dictation and another. I write the above paragraphs for the protection of the hierarchical work in years to come and not for the protection of A.A.B. or myself... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now COMPARE AND CONTRAST the above with what Jerry Hejka-Ekins has=20 written: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "From my earlier perusal of AAB's writings, I found that many of her teachings were drawn directly from Besant and Leadbeater's E.S. writings, which to this day, are not publicly available...." "...The Maitreya teaching was originally tied to Krishnamurti, the supposed vehicle for the Maitreya/Christ return. Besant, in an ES talk in 1909 or 10, presented the earliest (that I'm aware of) full description of what later became credited as the Bailey hierarchy=97 Maitreya and all. This was published in The Link (a London ES journal) and in the American EST Bulletin in 1910, I think, but no later than this. Also in January 1912, CWL and AB were called by the Maitreya to prepare Krishnamurti and Jinarajadasa for their second initiation. The boys were taken to Taormina in Sicily for the training. Much of the material in Masters and the Path comes from these early events. The account of this 1912 initiation begins on pg. 298 in my 2nd edition (1927)." "According to her Autobiography, (If my memory serves me correctly) Bailey's first contact with Theosophy was through the Pacific Grove Lodge around 1912. She moved to Krotona Hollywood a year or two thereafter where she joined the ES, and gained access to the material concerning the inner government and initiations, which was only circulated through the ES at that time. However, you will find hints of it in the Theosophist. Bailey states in her Autobiography that she began taking psychic dictation from "the Tibetan" around 1917 or 18 and left Krotona shortly afterwards (I'm recalling from her Autobiography that I read years ago, so my memory may not exactly match her dates, but they should be close). Initiation Human and Solar was published in 1922 =97 her first book =97 I think. I read it some years ago, and found it very faithful to the ES teachings [of Leadbeater/Besant] as they were presented from 1910-1918." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Collated from two of Jerry's postings which can be found at: http://www.theos-l.com/archives/months/TL199401.TXT http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/10242 Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 08:27:30 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69443 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 15:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 15:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.166) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 15:27:29 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:26:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:26:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.201] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 15:26:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:26:32 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.166 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.26.26 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Statements by DK on The Secret Doctrine and The Mahatma Letters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=xrXacXeOsGxtpL2eR8wpbimliu5nQfJ6casITn6eECBxrEL6N5lztb7L X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41826 Statements by DK on The Secret Doctrine and The Mahatma Letters In 1997 you (Andrew Stinson) wrote: > DK makes it plain in his dictations to AAB that it was *HE* who > dictacted the largest portions of the Secred Doctrine. It would > have been his first project, perhaps, as a Full Adept. Nevermind > that most folks believe it was DK's superiors (KH and M) who > dictated the SD - DK also states that much of the Mahatma Letters > is HPB's *own* work and not actual dictation from her Masters. > Here I do not mean to discredit them, though to some it may > appear that I am doing so. I revere HPB even higher than AAB in > many respects. Andrew, of course, you are entitled to your opinions as they may be reflected in the excerpt from your post above. It seems that you believe in HPB's bonafides and actually believe in the existence of M., K.H. and DK. Yet it is somewhat suprising to me that instead of believing what HPB, KH and M wrote in the 1880s, you are willing to set their statements aside and believe what Alice Bailey is writing some 30 years after HPB's death. There are Mahatma Letters as well as HPB's own statements that indicate that M., K.H and another adept had the most to do with the production of the Secret Doctrine. D.K. may have helped in some way, but the primary source documents from HPB's own time clearly contradict your statement that "DK. . .dictacted the largest portions of the Secred Doctrine." Maybe they were mistaken or lying, you may reply. But if that is a possibility, why not the possibility that the "entity" communicating through Bailey might also be lying or was mistaken? Or possibly all of these "entities" as well as Blavatsky and Bailey were lying or somehow "deluded". You write that "DK also states that much of the Mahatma Letters is HPB's *own* work and not actual dictation from her Masters." Well, are you open to the possibility that "much of DK's supposed writings through Bailey is Bailey's *own* work and not actual dictation from DK"? As to the question of whether HPB " wrote" the Mahatma Letters or not, you might want to consult Vernon Harrison's book *HP Blavatsky and the SPR*. As an expert documents examiner, Dr. Harrison's opinion is as follows: ". . .I find no evidence that the Mahatma Letters were written by Madame Blavatsky in a disguised form of her *ordinary writing* made for fraudulent purposes. . . ." (p.x) Asterisks added. Another "handwriting expert" (Dr. Paul Kirk) gave his opinion that Blavatsky did not write certain KH letters as reproduced in the plates attached to Hodgson's 1885 report on Blavatsky. Kirk didn't even know that he was giving an opinion on Blavatsky and Koot Hoomi. The specimens of handwriting were given to Kirk without Blavatsky's and Koot Hoomi's names being given. See Victor Endersby's HALL OF MAGIC MIRRORS, etc. The Hare Brothers in their book WHO WROTE THE MAHATMA LETTERS? (published in the 1930s) contended that HPB wrote the Mahatma Letters but read in conjunction with their work the detailed analysis of the Hares' statements by Dr. H.N. Stokes in his OE LIBRARY CRITIC. (1930s) Of course, you may say that Dr. Harrison, Dr. Kirk and Dr. Stokes were all wrong. But are you also willing to concede that D.K. (via Alice Bailey) was possibly wrong on this issue? Harrison, Kirk and Stokes give pages of detailed reasoning for their conclusions. Where are DK's detailed reasoning for his assertion? You also say: " I revere HPB even higher than AAB in many respects." Yet from your own post, you seem inclined to believe AAB over HPB. Certainly, it might be wise to be skeptical of HPB's statements but why not apply that same standard to Bailey and her statements? > It is plainly stated, though I forget the exact source, except > that I *think* it is reliable, that when HPB was in Tibet > (something I have stopped even questioning, such is my confidence > and TRUST in her OWN words), one of the youngest disciples to sit > with her learning from the Mahatmas was a 14 year-old Arhat. It would be interesting to know the source for this statement. You speak of your "confidence and TRUST in her [HPB's] OWN words" [about Tibet?] yet you seem quite willing to disbelieve HPB's OWN words about who helped her write the Secret Doctrine. Why? Certainly, you have the right to believe as you see fit. Certainly be skeptical of Blavatsky's claims and statements but why not be equally skeptical of what Bailey claims. As I see it historically, Bailey's claims are dependent on Blavatsky's. Blavatsky's claims are not dependent on Bailey's. If Blavatsky can be shown to be a fraud "pure and simple" as A. Bharati phrases it, Bailey's claims are of a simliar cloth. But if Blavatsky's claims are legit, there is no builtin guarantee that Bailey's claims are also legit. Food for thought.... Daniel http://hpb.cc From Sven04@comhem.se Mon Sep 03 11:11:50 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Sven04@comhem.se X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87599 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 18:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 18:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net) (80.76.149.212) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 18:11:48 -0000 Received: from c83-253-206-194.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.206.194]:1275 helo=sveinn-fp1krz97.comhem.se) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1ISG56-00033z-4S for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 19:51:24 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 19:52:37 +0200 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: X-Authenticated: u13406688@ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 8e95026a51642695aa7ca499b1dcd2e2 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1ISG56-00033z-4S. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1ISG56-00033z-4S 17d6e8d9ff16abeb0336c5a48b14114e X-Originating-IP: 80.76.149.212 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sveinn Freyr Subject: Re: Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=288703295; y=jc1Ir0WxlTWu_2UYuSjGtd2rgnAFWPIytnhzX8ce7VTm X-Yahoo-Profile: ari343 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41827 Scribe - According to my observation a shift took place within A.A.B. She tried in few words to explain that shift in her last book. I advise all serious students of A.A.B to read her first edition books. Lucis Trust has in a purgatory way taken out of her books important sentences. ~ S. F. ----------- From: "Scribe" Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 ---------- <<< If anyone will study AAB's works you will see a gradual shift toward a focus upon a group of "New World Servers," which sounds good as far as that goes but in the end you see it becomes part and parcel with the UN and the like and then you realize all this is funded by something called "the Lucis Trust." I catch the taint of subversion here; when did Lucis come into AAB's writings and turn the whole of her work into being a tool of the NWO? I am rereading her books now and they--the early ones--are truly highly esoteric and Theosophic. Did a shift take place within her? was she taken over by another "Master"? Scribe >>> From Sven04@comhem.se Mon Sep 03 12:18:40 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Sven04@comhem.se X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14534 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 19:18:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 19:18:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net) (80.76.149.213) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 19:18:38 -0000 Received: from c83-253-206-194.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.206.194]:1389 helo=sveinn-fp1krz97.comhem.se) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1ISGwS-000367-6j for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:46:32 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:48:16 +0200 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: X-Authenticated: u13406688@ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 040e78b36f2520dcdb4eccc91cf0d91b X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1ISGwS-000367-6j. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1ISGwS-000367-6j 6cc18bfd5b3e62ba329ce4f8181bffd2 X-Originating-IP: 80.76.149.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Sveinn Freyr Subject: Re: What is truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=288703295; y=7zQamiSQF4Zmrg4rncr3LT6vyE3steaaPkLoOXKhJt_Y X-Yahoo-Profile: ari343 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41828 Truth is a Fire-substance needed for the Spirit-man to graduate Spirit-fire. ~ S. F. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 13:36:16 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32097 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 20:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 20:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.127) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 20:35:54 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 20:35:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 20:35:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2007 20:35:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 20:35:41 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.127 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.26.26 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Rejection of Koot Hoomi's Letter about God X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=YBO5DqO0OmEOlv9ZVWJ5Yyqbd6oiKqs23P-aEQOQcktqjdrErOyX0LMH X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41829 Sveinn Freyr wrote some time ago on Theos-Talk: ------------------------------------------------ This controversial letter "No. 88"? Is by my opinion not a letter written by an adept. It is a note scrap that should not have been issued and designated to master K.H. This scrap note has done much harm. ------------------------------------------------- I am interested to know Sveinn Freyr's thinking on WHY this=20 letter "has done much harm". I have studied this letter NO. 88 [in the Chronological edition of The Mahatma Letters] in great detail and have compared it to other RELEVANT letters in the Mahatma Letters as well as to what one can find in HPB's THE SECRET DOCTRINE and HPB's other writings. Sveinn Freyr states that it was NOT written by an adept, the Master=20 KH.=20 I see no good reason for coming to this conclusion made by Sveinn=20 Freyr. Consider the following. In ANOTHER letter NO. 93B (4th chrono ed.) Master KH refers to these VERY NOTES that Sveinn Freyr rejects: ----------------------------------------------------- 5) It certainly does, and I have touched upon the subject long ago. In my notes on Mr. Hume's MSS., "On God" -- that he kindly adds to our Philosophy, something the latter had never contemplated before -- the subject is mentioned abundantly. Has he refused you a look into it? For you -- I may enlarge my explanations, but not before you have read what I say of the origin of good and evil on those margins. Quite enough was said by me for our present purposes. Strangely enough I found a European author -- the greatest materialist of his times, Baron d'Holbach -- whose views coincide entirely with the views of our philosophy. When reading his Essais sur la Nature, I might have imagined I had our book of Kiu-ti before me. As a matter of course and of temperament our Universal Pundit will try to catch at those views and pull every argument to pieces. So far he only threatens me to alter his Preface and not to publish the philosophy under his own name. Cuneus cuneum, tradit: I begged him not to publish his essays at all. ------------------------------------------------------------ Notice KH's words: "...that he kindly adds to our Philosophy...." Compare the subject matter mentioned in this letter with the subject matter of Letter No. 88. So I ask: Is this letter 93B ALSO not from the Master KH??? Moving on. Here is what Master KH wrote in yet ANOTHER letter: -------------------------------------------------------- I dread the appearance in print of our philosophy as expounded by Mr. H[ume]. I read his three essays or chapters on God (?) cosmogony and glimpses of the origin of things in general, and had to cross out nearly all. He makes of us Agnostics!! We do not believe in God because so far, we have no proof, etc. This is preposterously ridiculous: if he publishes what I read, I will have H.P.B. or Djual Khool deny the whole thing; as I cannot permit our sacred philosophy to be so disfigured. He says that people will not accept the whole truth; that unless we humour them with a hope that there may be a 'loving Father and creator of all in heaven' our philosophy will be rejected a priori. In such a case the less such idiots hear of our doctrines the better for both. If they do not want the whole truth and nothing but the truth, they are welcome. But never will they find us -- (at any rate) -- compromising with, and pandering to public prejudices. ----------------------------------------------------------- The above extract shows that the Master is referring to the same subject matter of Letter NO. 88. So I ask: Is this letter ALSO not from the Master KH??? And ALSO consider Letter No. 90 in the Chrono. Ed. Again the subject matter in Letter No. 90 is much the same as in Letter NO. 88. So I ask: Is this letter ALSO not from the Master KH??? And once again COMPARE the contents of Letter NO. 88 and the other letters I've quoted from with THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL elucidation by KH to Sinnett: ---------------------------------------------------------- ....And thus according to Mr. Massey's philosophical conclusion we have no God? He is right -- since he applies the name to an extra- cosmic anomaly, and that we, knowing nothing of the latter, find -- each man his God -- within himself in his own personal, and at the same time, -- impersonal Avalokiteswara..... --------------------------------------------------------- Notice the words: "...He is right --- since he applies the name to an extra-cosmic anomaly...." So I ask: Is this letter ALSO not from the Master KH??? What is Avalokiteswara? In yet ANOTHER letter, Master KH elucidates the term: ------------------------------------------------------- ...Avalokita Isvar literally interpreted means "the Lord that is seen." "Iswara" implying moreover, rather the adjective than the noun, lordly, self-existent lordliness, not Lord. It is, when correctly interpreted, in one sense "the divine Self perceived or seen by Self," the Atman or seventh principle ridded of its mayavic distinction from its Universal Source -- which becomes the object of perception for, and by the individuality centred in Buddhi, the sixth principle, -- something that happens only in the highest state of Samadhi. This is applying it to the microcosm. In the other sense Avalokitesvara implies the seventh Universal Principle, as the object perceived by the Universal Buddhi "Mind" or Intelligence which is the synthetic aggregation of all the Dhyan Chohans, as of all other intelligences whether great or small, that ever were, are, or will be.... ...Avalokitesvara is both the unmanifested Father and the manifested Son, the latter proceeding from, and identical with, the other; -- namely, the Parabrahm and Jivatman, the Universal and the individualized seventh Principle, -- the Passive and the Active, the latter the Word, Logos, the Verb.... ------------------------------------------------------------- Notice the reference to Atman....and now compare these extracts about Avalokitesvara with the following extracts from Letter No. 88. I will suggest that part of the key to a TRUE understanding what the=20 Master writes in Letter No. 88 is to be found in these choice=20 extracts from that very letter that Sveinn Freyr rejects: ---------------------------------------------------- ...If people are willing to accept and to regard as God our ONE LIFE immutable and unconscious in its eternity they may do so and thus keep to one more gigantic misnomer. But then they will have to say with Spinoza that there is not and that we cannot conceive any other substance than God; or as that famous and unfortunate philosopher says in his fourteenth proposition, "practer Deum neque dari neque concepi potest substantia" -- and thus become Pantheists.... . . We are not Adwaitees, but our teaching respecting the one life is identical with that of the Adwaitee with regard to Parabrahm. And no true philosophically brained Adwaitee will ever call himself an agnostic, for he knows that he is Parabrahm and identical in every respect with the universal life and soul -- the macrocosm is the microcosm and he knows that there is no God apart from himself, no creator as no being. Having found Gnosis we cannot turn our backs on it and become agnostics. ----------------------------------------------------------- Much could be added to the above quotes from H.P.B.'s THE SECRET DOCTRINE. I would suggest that the underlying theme is CONSISTENT....FROM=20 LETTER TO LETTER, from extract to extract.... Each quote, each extract from the different letters fit together like=20 jig saw puzzle pieces to show the whole picture. In other words, there is similarity/identity of key ideas and themes=20 in the different letters cited above. Of course, each student and reader will have to determine if Letter No. 88 is from an adept or not, but it appears that the subject matter is consistent as one goes from one Mahatma Letter to another and as one then compares what is said on the same topic for example in THE SECRET DOCTRINE. If one rejects Letter No. 88 as Sveinn Freyr does, then why not ALSO=20 reject the other letters quoted above???? This is the question that has not been answered...... Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Sep 03 14:58:02 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4132 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2007 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2007 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2007 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id r.cf0.193a2902 (65098) for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:17:10 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5041 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: What is truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=QviwNnjPrUPjoTc1_JSNcA5ABCZubJnfjZ6_kHnoAxCWFQkGZw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41830 In a message dated 9/3/2007 2:23:44 PM Central Daylight Time, Sven04@comhem.se writes: Truth is a Fire-substance needed for the Spirit-man to graduate Spirit-fire. ~ S. F. So instead of the TS, we should be in the fire department. Chuck the Heretic (I know, I'm having too much fun with this) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Sep 03 17:47:49 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75298 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2007 00:47:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2007 00:47:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.113) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2007 00:47:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 97669 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2007 00:47:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: R6SqCckVM1lQSCO7SFEwtE9TjCZ0dCqvAYDKc5XqxfZpB1Ua99v11FWS9Mq3RBT3KcWWtfFgP0Cco9l1q6hPbrRCwd3By4VHk8GE5SG0GeLp6Vp32iqseUv6RWfnKShHTjRl9vFUt.CF3l0- Received: from [220.237.47.186] by web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:47:23 PDT Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:47:23 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001001c7edbb$625df320$6501a8c0@AMD64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <775735.97646.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=sUumE0g89977MmMUemzk1sVfEmRs53mHEpIgecMoRHIjxeTweA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 41831 Hello Scribe, I can see your point. I believe that the ideals held by Alice Bailey in regard to the New World Order and the United Nations was noble. I believe these ideals were either misinterpreted or intentionally manipulated as a personal agenda by those who had less noble intentions. Cass Scribe wrote: mkr, I ha