From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 03:04:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33942 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 10:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 10:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.113) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 10:59:18 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 10:58:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 10:58:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 10:58:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:58:16 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: HPB and Ritualism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=BmXkoM3pCnTRfn9ILKAIkz3h4G4SFGWmGiQ5lOOZ6d78poacs8HSab0 X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38172 Carl, I am but a student of Theosophy. It was HPB, not me, who wrote that=20 the Masonry was infiltrated by Jesuits. It was HPB, not me, who wrote=20 that Ritualism and "practical magic" are too dangerous (from 19th=20 century on). It wans HPB and the Masters who created a movement free=20 from ritualisms and blind belief. Carlos.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 03:09:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8006 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 11:05:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 11:05:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 11:05:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:01:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:01:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:01:50 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:01:48 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: Do Masters Judge People? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=CSBJeyjkalm9f34SNXjIXC_jQlT4N-9ah5k4QgEupb72QMi9fA8wFQo X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38173 Friends, Of course, Masters of the Wisdom judge and evaluate people. It could=20 not be otherwise: everyone has to evaluate persons and they are no=20 exception.=20 But by what criteria do Adepts judge human beings? How to they=20 judge those who aspire for universal wisdom under any of its many=20 forms?=20 The Eastern Adept who wrote the greater number of Letters to A. P.=20 Sinnett once taught: "We, my dear sirs, always judge men by their motives and the moral=20 effects of their actions : for the world's standards and prejudice=20 we have no respect." (1)=20 So this is a fundamental criterion by which Initiates and Masters=20 judge people.=20 Indeed, the degree of honesty in one's intentions and the moral=20 effects of one's actions are two central factors in one's karmic=20 records, and in one's life.=20=20=20 Something to think about, as we seek for self-knowledge.=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 NOTE:=20 (1) "The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnett", T.U.P., Pasadena, CA,=20 USA, 1992, 494 pp., see Letter LXXXI, p. 386. The quotation is in=20 the closing lines of the letter. In the Chronological Edition of=20 the "Mahatma Letters" (TPH Philippines), it corresponds to Letter=20 number 112.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 03:13:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91977 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 11:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 11:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 11:12:17 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:11:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:11:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:11:46 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:11:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: NO FEET OF MASTER X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=wtloyzQq7dvFKIo27u0xRBnKxh3JE-DOzeFxJKu4lSP9PT4wsZ_eRvE X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38174 Dear Friends, In the "At the Feet of the Master" -- a sort of Liberal Catholic=20 catechism -- one can see the word "God" is used a great number of=20 times.=20=20 "God has a plan", says the booklet. And more: "If [anyone] is on=20 God's side he is one with us", it insists.=20 That piece of theosophical messianism states that "You are God";=20 the conclusion from that being that you should wish only "what God=20 wills". (1)=20 As we have seen, the real author of the pamphlet is C. W.=20 Leadbeater, who, cleverly ascribed its authorship to the young boy=20 Jiddu Krishnamurti and to a certain Master of the Wisdom. In the=20 foreword, Krishnamurti says, or these words are ascribed to=20 him: "These are not my words; they are the words of the Master who=20 taught me."=20 Let's see, then, what did that very same Master who according to=20 Leadbeater taught Krishnamurti, write about God in his=20 famous "Letter 10" in the "Mahatma Letters".=20=20=20 The real Adept says:=20 "Neither our philosophy nor ourselves believe in God, least of all=20 in one whose pronoun necessitates a capital H." (2)=20 Leadbeater makes his imaginary Master say:=20=20 "For YOU are God, and you will only what God wills" (p. 9). On the other hand, the real Master teaches in another Letter:=20=20 "A constant sense of abject dependence upon a Deity which he=20 regards as the sole source of power makes a man lose all self- reliance and the spurs to activity and initiative. Having begun by=20 creating a father and guide unto himself, he becomes like a boy and=20 remains so to his old age, expecting to be led by the hand on the=20 smallest as well as the greatest events of life." (3)=20 Leadbeater makes his imaginary Master say:=20 "God is Wisdom as well as Love; and the more wisdom you have the=20 more you can manifest of Him." (p. 12)=20 In the ML Letter 134, one reads this from a Mahatma:=20 "Faith in Gods and God, and other superstitions attracts millions of=20 foreign influences, living entities and powerful agents around them,=20 with which we would have to use more power than ordinary exercised=20 power to drive them away. We do not choose to do so." (4)=20 The Master was thus explaining that Adepts can hardly get near=20 persons who believe in superstitions like "God or Gods".=20=20 In fact, C. W. Leadbeater failed in discipleship soon after being=20 put on probation and receiving a letter and a co=E7uple of short notes=20 from a Master, in the 1880s. Later on, he was not even admitted to=20 HPB's Esoteric School as long as she lived.=20=20 In 1906, he frankly confessed abusing children and was duly expelled=20 from the Theosophical Society by H. S. Olcott. Yet by some strange=20 coincidence Olcott died a few months later, and Leadbeater=20 immediately came back to the control the Adyar movement =96 with=20 Annie Besant's blessings.=20 All those who compare Leadbeater's writings with the real teachings=20 from the Masters and HPB can see that they say quite the opposite in=20 the most decisive topics and issues dealing with the spiritual=20 path.=20=20 Regards, Carlos.=20=20 NOTES:=20 (1) "At The Feet of the Master", by Alcyone, The Theosophical=20 Publishing House, Wheaton, IL, USA, Pocketbook edition, 1984, 32 pp.=20 See pages 7-9.=20 (2) "The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnett", T.U.P., Pasadena, CA,=20 USA, 1992, 494 pp., see Letter X, p. 52. The quotation is in the=20 opening lines of the letter. In the Chronological Edition of=20 the "Mahatma Letters" (TPH Philippines), it corresponds to Letter=20 number 88.=20 (3) "Letters From the Masters of the Wisdom", 1870-1900, First=20 Series, transcribed by C. Jinarajadasa, TPH, Adyar, Madras=20 (Chennai), India, 1973, see Letter 43, p. 95.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 03:49:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40107 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 11:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 11:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 11:41:16 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:38:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:38:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 11:38:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:38:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: DALLAS WRITES ON THE ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=X0UqHJK3kriINb14BM80zfiBTilfUgN2aKbK1tsJjONiS6En_JfdY4E X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38175 Dear Friends,=20 I reproduce below the Notes written by our common friend Dallas=20 TenBroeck (who died a few months ago) , on the life of the great=20 Theosophist Robert Crosbie. It is the best biographical text on Mr.=20 Crosbie that I have known so far. It also describes many an aspect=20 of the History of the United Lodge of Theosophists.=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 oooooooooooooooooooooooooo by dalval14 Friday, August 24, 2001 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COPY =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Brief Notes on Mr. Robert Crosbie' Life and Work: R O B E R T C R O S B I E The Friendly Philosopher 1849 -- 1919 __________________ BIOGRAPHICAL NOTES Mr. Crosbie is to be known through his writings:-- THE FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER -- 415 pp. (Letters & Lectures) ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS on the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY NOTES ON THE BHAGAVAD GITA, (Chapters: 8 to 18) Editor of THEOSOPHY MAGAZINE:- 1912 - 1919 Editor: THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT: 1875-1925 (History) Editor: BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY. (Stories) Editor. THE ETERNAL VERITIES ( Text for Theosophy School ) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Bio Notes January 10th 1849 Born:- Montreal, Canada Both parents were Scottish, they met and married in Canada. His father was connected for many years with the Hudson Bay Co. as a supervisor, traveling from Post to Post for a good part of the year. His mother was a companion to Lady Simpson, wife of the Governor of the Hudson Bay Company. A "highlander," she had, but rarely used, her capacity for "second-sight." She lived a life of self-sacrifice, compassion, and service to others. 1865 R C was raised a Presbyterian, and was invited to join the communion at 16; R C said he considered himself still "unfit." The subsequent discussions caused him to doubt the honesty of that church's practices. He determined to find "the Truth, which must be knowledge," and which was to be found in due course by seeking it. Then he adopted an attitude of constant questioning as to life's object, pain, sickness, death, mercy, justice, fate. He found that the religions around him offered no satisfactory answers when he questioned them deeply.. 1869 R C, and an older partner started a leather and shoe manufacturing business in Montreal. Soon after that he married the daughter of his partner. His partner's wife died, and this brought on an interest in spiritualism. Crosbie, investigating that, found nothing attractive in its facts or philosophy. R C observed some fraud. In some cases, hypnotism seems to have been involved. He then studied hypnotism, mesmerism, clairvoyance and telepathy with some personal success, but always had a sense of restraint, an instinctive sense of its inherent dangers. The "psychic powers latent in man" were found to exist and seen by him, but their rationale was still to be understood. He sensed there was danger in those, and also sensed that he was receiving "some guidance" which he later said, helped him avoid "unconscious black magic practices." Crosbie always had a strong regard for the rights of others, and, aware of this, always exercised a strong moral control over himself. "...from his earliest years deeply interested in religious, philosophical and occult subjects..." THY. Vol. 7 p. 320 A favorable opportunity to sell their business in Montreal arose. The partners, after the sale, went to Boston, and there started another shoe and leather manufacturing business. It became well known and was highly respected. 1886-8 One day, R C's partner brought him news of the proposed establishment of a branch of the Theosophical Society in Boston. As the word: Theo-Sophia suggested much to him, Crosbie went to the first meeting. He recognized at once that this was what he was searching for, and he joined the T S immediately. (Admitted: June 5th, 1888) Soon after, Mr. W. Q. Judge came to Boston to speak at the Branch of the T S, and Crosbie was introduced to him together with other new members. After the meeting, leaving for his hotel, Judge called back to Crosbie: "Good night Crosbie, I've got you on my list !" Mr. Crosbie recorded: "a veil was lifted...a tie was formed which has never since been broken." Mr. Judge came frequently to Boston and stayed at the Crosbie house. When Crosbie visited New York he would stay with him. See: THY. Vol. 24, 337; THY 64, 229 ] 1888 Of this first meeting with Mr. Judge, Crosbie wrote : "A FRIEND OF OLD TIME AND OF THE FUTURE" "The first Theosophical treatise I read was his Epitome of Theosophy; my first meeting with him changed the whole current of my life. I trusted him then as I trust him now and all those whom he trusted...trust is the bond that binds, that makes the strength of the Movement, for it is of the heart. And this trust he called forth was not allowed to remain a blind trust, for as time went on, as the energy, steadfastness and devotion of the student became more marked, the "real W.Q.J." was more and more revealed, until that power radiated through him became in each an ever present help in the work. As such, it remains to-day, a living power in each heart that trusted him, a focus for the Rays of the coming "great messenger." "Having been engaged in active T.S. work in Boston for over seven years, it has been my Karma to be brought in touch with him under many different circumstances, the various crises, local and general, through which the Society has safely passed... The future will reveal much in regard to him that is now hidden, will show the real scope of his life- work... The lines have been laid down for us by H.P.B., W.Q.J., and Masters, and we can take again our watchword, that which he gave us at the passing of H.P.B., 'Work, watch and wait.' We will not have long to wait." -- R. Crosbie THY 7-292 Crosbie, in retrospect observed that in those early years, students had few materials for the actual study of Theosophy. There were only HPB's ISIS UNVEILED, articles in the issues of THE THEOSOPHIST and THE PATH, ESOTERIC BUDDHISM, and the OCCULT WORLD written by Mr. Sinnett. Later, apart from articles in Theosophist, Lucifer, and Path, HPB wrote THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, THE SECRET DOCTRINE and THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE. Judge in publishing the magazine The Path (1886-1896), provided students with a great many practical hints on Theosophy. These not only covered his observations, but illustrated aspects of doctrine and metaphysics which students were interested in. October 1888 When the E.S. was formed, Mr. Crosbie became one of its earliest members. He was first Secretary and later President of the E S Group in Boston under a charter issued to him by HPB through Mr. Judge, her agent in America. THY 24 337, THY 23 100 "(He)...identified himself with the Dzyan section of the Theosophical Movement and the T S., and was for many years the devoted and close Companion of William Q. Judge, and an occult pupil of H.P. Blavatsky...He...loved these two great Beings, trusted Them and those whom They trusted..." THY 7 320; THY 7 290 Mr. Judge, in his lifetime, used to refer students in the New England States to Mr. Crosbie, saying:- "Ask Crosbie, he thinks and acts as I do." THY 24-337 1889 Crosbie was elected Secretary of the Boston Branch T S, nominated by C.F.Willard. Mr. Griggs was its President. June 1891 After HPB's death Mr. Judge put Crosbie in charge of the EST Groups in the 7 New England States. This was done under a charter issued by HPB to Robert Crosbie through him as her agent in America. December 1891 Crosbie was present in New York at a meeting with Mrs. A. Besant, Mr. Judge, and other Theosophists at Astor House. During that meeting, Mrs. Besant narrated the events that took place following the death of HPB at the General Council Meeting of the I. G. of the E. S. in London on May 27th 1891. This meeting followed H P B's death. Mr. Judge was present as "HPB's representative, with full power." Mrs. A. Besant was present as "secretary and recorder of the teachings." In the meeting at New York, Annie Besant stated that at that time, a "note" on which the Master had written:-- "Judge's plan is right," fell out of the packet of letters she had tied, and which had been in her sole possession, until she had brought it, herself, to that meeting. This related to Mr. Judge's suggestion of having two Co-"Outer-Heads" for the E S to carry on its guidance, A. Besant to be responsible primarily for the "Eastern section" [Britain, Europe and Asia], and Judge for the "Western section" [Americas, Australia], and both to stay in all cases in mutual consultative positions as "Co-Outer Heads." She was to supervise E S Groups in England and Europe in the East, Mr. Judge to supervise America and groups in the West, and both were to work in close consultation, cooperation and harmony with each-other. Mr. Crosbie made a written record of this meeting, along with others who were also present. Later, during the furor of the "Judge Case," Mrs. Besant repudiated this statement. THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT-- 1875-1925, pp. 646, 296-7, 649-50. It may also be noted that Mrs. Besant had separately written on this object to Jasper Neimand (Mrs. Julia Keightley) and therein she had then made the statement that the note from the Master had "fallen out of the bundle she had earlier tied together, and locked in her desk. [ See W. Q. Judge bio-notes ] 1892 Crosbie's first marriage did not go at all well. One of their daughters was sickly from birth and needed constant nursing, for this special help several servants to assist Mrs. Crosbie were hired successively. When R C became interested in Theosophy around 1888, the situation at the home with Mrs. Crosbie worsened and a legal separation was agreed on around 1892. A suit for permanent divorce followed, and this became final some years later. At this time, Mr. Crosbie sold his business and turned the proceeds as well as their house over to his wife. Later, a fire in that home occurred and this may have killed his first wife and their children after the divorce. He then started a new leather business on his own in Boston. 1892 Mr. Crosbie was appointed President of the Boston E.S. In addition he was also the President of the Boston T S Branch. April 1892 He helped organize the 5th Convention of the American Section of the T.S. held in Boston April 24/25th 1892. April 1895 In 1895 he helped organize the 8th Convention of the American Section of the T. S. in Boston, (April 28/29th, 1895 ). It was during this convention that the American Section passed resolutions that transformed it into the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY IN AMERICA, giving it full legal autonomy. On p. 24 of the Report for the Convention, we find Mr. Judge stating in an article the basis for fraternal affiliation which unites all Theosophical working bodies and Theosophists together: -- "The Unity of the Theosophical Movement does not depend upon the singleness of organizations, but upon the similarity of work and aspiration; and in this we will 'KEEP THE LINK UNBROKEN !'" (Those were HPB's last words.) Along with Mr. L. Wade, and Mr. Ayers, Mr. Crosbie submitted to the Convention an "Historical Sketch of the T.S." (Published in PATH). This traced the major events of its existence and work in America since 1875. And, this was included in the Proceedings and Report issued by the Convention. One of the points made was that legally the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY had never removed from New York where it was originally started in 1875. H P B and Col. Olcott had been delegated as a Committee to visit India and make an official connection with the Arya Samaj [Society of the Nobles] which had Pundit Dayanand Saraswati as its leader and chief. Later, Col. Olcott, as President for Life, in India declared that the Headquarters of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY were wherever he was residing. This was never passed as a formal Resolution by the Original THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in New York. The original Minute Book is on deposit in the archives of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Pasadena. Thus Adyar became the H Q. Later a pamphlet embodying this information was issued under the title: WHAT IS THE THEOSOPHICAL ORGANIZATION ? 1894 -- 1896 During this period Mr. Judge was attacked, exonerated, and, later persecuted again by the chief officers of the T. S. outside of America. Those were Col. H. S. Olcott the President Founder, and Mrs. Annie Besant as President of the British and European Sections of the T S. Contemporary Theosophical magazines printed articles and contributions on this, and from them, considered altogether one may reconstruct the motives and events. Neither of these two officers appeared to have understood that Mr. Judge (and Mr. Crosbie in Boston) stood primarily for Theosophy (as HPB did) and not just for the T S as an organization. To them, the T S was a useful tool, to be sustained as a promulgating body for the doctrines of Theosophy. And for sustaining the CAUSE of THEOSOPHY: Universal Brotherhood. To Judge and Crosbie, and others in America and England, the T S was to be directed on the basis of the principles which Theosophy laid down and no others. No individuals' "authority" was recognized by them. Each member's free-will and free-determination was his own responsibility and no one else could wield authority over him or her. Theosophy alone was held to be the sole reason for the T S; and the Officers, in its management ought to present that basis at all times. 1894 - 96 Mr. Crosbie supported Mr. Judge's principles fully. He acted as one of the "witnesses on the scene." He, kept the "link" of pure Theosophy "unbroken," after Mr. Judge's death. The hints given by W.Q.J. during his life in regard to Crosbie were not grasped by those around him, who had what they fancied to be their own positions. And, in addition, seemed to be glamoured and deluded by the psychic powers Mrs. Tingley exhibited (she had only been a member for only a year prior to Mr. Judge's death). In New York, Mr. Neresheimer, who was Mr. Judge's executor and Mr. Hargrove went through Judge's papers. They found what was later described as an incomplete and very fragmentary, cryptic diary of Mr. Judges', but which Hargrove claimed (in 1896) to be an "occult" diary; and in this, he said he detected that Mr. Judge had indicated that Mrs. Tingley was to "succeed" him. Mr. Neresheimer had introduced Mrs. Tingley to W. Q. J. about a year before his death. She became a member of the T S and later, a member of the E S. She was a psychic and apparently did not have a very profound knowledge of Theosophical philosophy. She had however been of help to Mr. Judge during the last year of his life which was spent in great discomfort and illness. However this gave her no special "position" in regard to the management of the T.S. or the conduct of the E.S. Many years later (1923), Mr. Neresheimer made a legal deposition outlining these events, and in that he reversed some of his earlier pronouncements, on which the "succession" of Mrs. Tingley had been based. This deposition is available. >>From time to time this "occult diary" has been mentioned as giving "authority" for the "Tingley succession," however, when requests were made to see it, or have it published, for all to verify, this was not done at that time. Copies were made of it and are available from several sources, but a reader will find it is difficult to establish any coherence in those phrases and notes. (see also: THY 3, p. 280) March 1896 Mr. Judge died March 21st l896. Mr. Crosbie was in Boston. Of the events in New York, he wrote:-- "Two or three of the New York members--notably E.T.Hargrove and E.A.Neresheimer--obtained possession of Mr. Judge's keys and went through his private papers; in these [ they said ] they found reference to a certain "chela," whom Neresheimer determined to be Mrs. Tingley whom he had known for about a year, and whom he had brought to Judge's notice. The idea being in their minds that there must of necessity be an occult successor, and concurring in the opinion that Mrs. T. was indicated, they sent out a circular to the E. S. that Judge had appointed her as such. The minds of all, being in the receptive condition I have mentioned, accepted everything as stated by the few in New York. The attitude assumed by Mrs. T. soon began to estrange those members who were brought in close touch with her in New York, but those at a distance had no inkling of the true state of affairs and kept on in full confidence. Those who found that they had made a mistake in the first place in foisting Mrs. T. upon the organization were in too doubtful a position to attempt explanations; one of them only -- Mr. Neresheimer--(who had introduced her to Judge)--remaining her supporter...his support was sufficient to offset any withdrawal of the others in New York." "Mrs. T. took advantage of the situation, and most plausibly and shrewdly strengthened her position for two years after her advent, then formed the "UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD" with herself as absolute dictator; carrying with her by far the greater number of the members throughout the country. A year later she went to Point Loma and established the institution there." 1896 Crosbie wrote in an autobiographical note: -- "As to my part in it--I was in Boston, and saw no reason to doubt the statements of those in N.Y. whom I believed to be sincere and of good training and judgment..." (Autobiographical Note by R.C.) In the May 1896 issue of THEOSOPHY (formerly--The PATH) will be found an article signed by Mr. Crosbie: -- " A FRIEND OF OLD TIME AND OF THE FUTURE " reprinted: THY 7 292 (Already quoted above) 19 close friends of Mr. Judge wrote articles about him that were published in the May, June and July issues of THEOSOPHY. The death of Mr. Judge brought choices to Mr. Crosbie. Some of those are hinted at in articles to be found printed in: THEOSOPHY, Vol. 24, pp. 339-40, THEOSOPHY, Vol. 64, pp. 229 1896 One of these related to impersonality, on which he offered his thoughts. [see Friendly. Philosopher, pp. 127-8] April 1896 and later Mr. Crosbie, in Boston was in cordial relations with Mrs. Tingley who had been placed, shortly after Mr. Judge's death, in the position of "Outer Head" of the E S Section of the T S in America. He retained his supervision of its affairs over the area comprising the New England states. 1897-1900 In reviewing this period, Mr. Crosbie wrote:-- "I was in Boston and had no reason to doubt the statements of those in N.Y. whom I believed to be sincere and of good training and judgment. I should have known by other means the true state of affairs...when Judge passed out of life, I lost touch with him; doubtless I relied on him too much, and had not exercised my own intuition; from later events my comprehension is, that this loss of touch was purposely done in order that I might strengthen my weakness in that direction. I went to Point Loma at Mrs. T's urgent request to assist in the proposed work, and was there two years, helping to prepare the way for the expected developments, before I began to get back the touch I had lost. I am prone to excuse inconsistencies and deviations in others, so that although I had begun to doubt, and to see, it was more than a year afterwards I saw so clearly and unmistakably that I took occasion to tell Mrs. T. the facts as I saw them, and to state my intention to withdraw from all connection with her. She tried of course in every way to change my determination, but finding me unchangeable, she let me go, and as I afterwards heard, gave out that she had sent me away for 'bad conduct'--just what I do not know." (AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL NOTE by R.C.) 1900 Mr. Crosbie married his second wife: Josephine Parsons, on April 10th 1900, in Manchester, N.H. They had two children: a daughter named Kathleen, (Kay, Kittie) and a son: Cameron. These two went to High School in Long Beach, Ca. They had neighbors who also came to U.L.T. and were students of Theosophy and who remember them well. (R. McOwen, R. Law) 1900 - MOVE TO POINT LOMA Mr. Crosbie was summoned by Mrs. Tingley to take up residence in Point Loma outside of San Diego, California, where a Headquarters had been located for the T S IN A, now renamed UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD and THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY. Mr. Crosbie noted that he had been active in Theosophical matters in Boston for some 14 years. THY 7 293 He went there with Mrs. Crosbie, and as was required then, on taking up residence, all their assets were turned over to the organization. He gave his support to Mrs. Tingley, as will be noted from several articles and letters of his written during those years. THEOS. MOVEMENT ('75-'50),p. 317-19 THY 65 159-60 Considering the close relationship that existed between Mr. Crosbie and Mr. Judge, and the special position that Mr. Crosbie occupies in the Theosophical Movement of modern times, one wonders whether Mr. Crosbie might not be considered a "shepherd" who was following his straying "flock." And when that "flock" dispersed, the "shepherd" went in search of a new one. 1904 - LEFT POINT LOMA Conflicting reports were circulated from the Point Loma organization as to why Mr. and Mrs. Crosbie left the Point Loma establishment. "A smudged entry: "Bad conduct" was entered against his name in the register of Members. None of the family assets which he turned over at the time of entry were returned to him. He and Mrs. Crosbie, when they left were left penniless. [ There have been hints ( Lischner Pamphlet ) of financial irregularities at Point Loma. Mr. and Mrs. Crosbie were not the only ones to leave at that time. Later, the T S at Point Loma went through a crisis around the time of Mrs. Tingley's death. They were heavily taxed without warning by the government on their extensive lands. As one who witnessed that event said: they were "land rich and cash poor" at the time.] THEOS. MOVEMENT ('75-50); THY 317-19; THY 23 492; THY 7 291 Mr. Crosbie is reported to have said: -- "We quietly left Point Loma." And that closed the subject. (The Register of Members kept in Point Loma shows a smudged remark in red ink against his name: "EXPELLED 1904.") 1906 Mr. & Mrs. Crosbie found a house to rent in South Pasadena on Bank St. He secured a job as a bookkeeper with the Los Angeles Times. This work was arduous and required long hours standing, and was not well paid. Like many others he rode the "Red Cars" (street-cars) to work. 1906 Mr. Crosbie became acquainted with his neighbors in South Pasadena. He found that they were interested in theosophical ideas, and with their joint interest a study class in Theosophy was started, using Mr. Judge's THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, and Mme. Blavatsky's THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY as the first texts to be studied, and to this they added the BHAGAVAD GITA, the Theosophy of 5,000 years ago. "Robert Crosbie preserved unbroken the link of the Second Section of the Theosophical Movement from the passing of Mr. Judge in 1896, and in 1907--just eleven years later--made that link once more Four Square amongst men. In the year 1909 the Third Section was restored by the formation of the United Lodge of Theosophists. In 1912 he founded the magazine THEOSOPHY "THY. 7 - 289; THY 3 - 187/8; THE ULT, ITS MISSION & FUTURE, p.8. 1906 Organized Theosophical meetings were first held by Mr. Crosbie under a charter obtained from the T S in A that Hargrove had reformed, after splitting away from the Point Loma TS, in New York in 1898/99. This had attracted a number of Mr. Judge's earlier companions including Dr. A. Keightley and his wife, Julia, better known as "Jasper Neimand." THY 23-544-5 1907 A year later this Society in New York decided to change their appellation back to : "The THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY." Since this was considered injudicious, some in the L.A. Branch rejected the change. 1907 Mr. Crosbie and 7 others decided to organize on their own, adopting the original principles and the original program of the Masters which HPB and Mr. Judge had embodied practically during their life- time. These PRINCIPLES are to be found in the DECLARATION OF THE UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS THY 23-544-47 Nov. 17th 1908 Mr. Crosbie issued an announcement:-- "TO ALL OPEN-MINDED THEOSOPHISTS" [Reprinted in: THY 24 341; FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, 409 February 18th 1909 U.L.T. was launched. The DECLARATION is its only basis. An initial explanatory statement will be found in : THY 23-337 and FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, p. 412-14 "No formal bond existed among the Associates of the ULT, the sole object being the study and dissemination of Theosophy pure and simple." THY 23-102 & THY 23-548-9 There were 7 original associates. THY 23 102 , F.P. 412-4 1909 The "Third Section" was said to be restored by the formation of the U.L.T. THY 7 289; ULT ITS MISSION & FUTURE, p. 8 "All sincere Theosophists deplore the evils in the Movement and long for their eradication. They "dimly perceive" that these evils have an originating and sustaining cause which must be counteracted, but so long as their attention is fixed on effects, how can they , except with "divided mind," study the producing cause or causes ?...They cannot learn the truth about nature and themselves in any other school than that provided in Theosophy and in the lessons to be learned from self-study and the study of theosophical history. The Theosophists of today are ... faced with the same inherent difficulties, the same problems, the same weaknesses...but the real lack then is the real lack now--the disposition to face the facts, to make the necessary effort to gain first-hand knowledge of Theosophy as a basis and standard of discrimination and judgment--and then the will to act upon those finely established principles thus self-perceived...From the beginning, but a handful recognized the gravity of the issues involved, and that is still the case. ... work--the will to study, apply, and so come to understand the play of forces in human nature--is the practical application of the 3rd. Object." THEOSOPHY Vol. 23, pp. 102-3 The "semi-esoteric character of the U.L.T." was a phrase that Mr. Crosbie used. He also said that the ULT had to do work, which the various T Ses, then in existence, had all failed in. It had to work to restore the integrity of the Original Impulse, as laid down by Masters through HPB." THEOSOPHY Nov. 1951 THEOSOPHY Vol. 50, pp. 338 Crosbie stressed impersonality and anonymity to protect the work and to help protect the workers from "pride," and "ambition. "It was recorded that in his work Mr. Crosbie was "undeviating." THEOSOPHY Vol. 52, p. 252 As regards himself and family, Mr. Crosbie was always well dressed in public, at work, and at the Lodge rooms, so that Theosophy might not be rated on a poor personal appearance. He made a point of this to all those who worked at ULT. 1909 The children of Mr. & Mrs. Crosbie : 1. their daughter, Kathleen (Kay), married a Mr. Deeds (they had two children: Scott and Keith). 2. Their son's name was Cameron. After Mr. Crosbie's death, Mrs. Josephine Crosbie and their two children moved to Long Beach. Mrs. Crosbie eventually went to live in Corona, where she was "house mother" at a girl's boarding school. She was not heard of after 1935. Cameron Crosbie became a professional organist. During the depression he moved to New York and kept up some desultory contact with Mr. John Garrigues, while he was at the New York ULT. He eventually stopped coming and was no longer heard from. Mrs. Josephine Crosbie was always well regarded by those who knew her. She and Mr. Crosbie were neighborly, and as said earlier, they made friends with Mr. and Mrs. Garrigues, Mr. and Mrs. Clough, Mr. and Mrs. Law, and Mr. and Mrs. Church, and Mrs. Eloise Ives. Later still, this circle of friends was widened to include: Mr. and Mrs. Bentley ( Mrs. Bentley was for almost 35 years the superintendent of Theosophy School ); Mr. and Mrs. Wyman; Mr. and Mrs. Brinton Jones; Dr. and Mrs. Frederick F. Strong; Mr. and Mrs. Frederick Manske; Miss W. Egan, and many others. 1910 Letters "In The Beginning" (The FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER) were written by Mr. Crosbie to early students at various ULTs. Some of these lived and worked in the San Francisco area. These few letters concerned themselves with the principles on which the ULT was established. Impersonality, conferencing together on decisions affecting the operations of a Lodge, and a direct approach to the actual teachings of HPB and WQJ was stressed again and again. FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, pp. 376-7, 382-3 November 1912 THEOSOPHY magazine was founded, Mr. Crosbie serving as chief editor until his death in 1919. THY 7-291 1912 "In 1912, the mid-point of the 2nd quarter of the Movement, the magazine THEOSOPHY was founded to provide a medium for dealing with theosophical philosophy and history, free from sectarian affiliations or influences. Slowly the effort spread despite all obstacles and opposition, the impregnable basis of impersonal devotion keeping the work unsullied, an impersonality strictly continued after the death of Mr. Crosbie in 1919." THY 23-102 & THY 23-548 1914 THEOSOPHY magazine, in its second volume started to publish a series of articles on Theosophical History under the title: MASTERS AND THEIR MESSAGE. This historical review of the events and the documents of the modern THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT forms the basis for the book later issued under the title: THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT: 1875-1925, edited by Mr. Crosbie. 1914 THEOSOPHY SCHOOL was started. This activity was adopted and implemented by most ULTs as they became established. 1916 "BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY" edited by Mr. Crosbie, was issued. Two new Theosophy Schools started around new ULTs in San Francisco and Berkeley. 1917 - 1918 Mr. Crosbie set most of the Theosophy School songs to music himself. 1917-18 "(Mr. Crosbie's) ... burdens during many years have been enormous. In addition to his other work, he was a frequent speaker at the meetings of the United Lodge; he was constantly at the service of the hundreds of students who sought his wise and benign counsels in their many problems; he attended personally, under no matter what pressures upon his time and energies, to an incessant stream of correspondence from unknown inquirers who came in some unknown ways to learn of him and to seek his kindly advice and suggestion. He never denied his help, but gave freely, without stint or limit." "Worn out in these unselfish labors for the benefit and advantage of his fellow men, burdened with the toll of advancing years, the frail body could no more sustain the increasing demands upon it. He died as he had lived, calm and serene, with no word of complaint during the days of intense suffering that preceded his release. Something of his firm principles and the impersonality of his life and work can be gained from his last published article, printed in the (July 1919 THEOSOPHY :-- "IS THEOSOPHY A PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM OF RELIGION ?"). THY 7-289-90 June 25th 1919 Death of Mr. Crosbie THEOSOPHY , Vol. 7, p. 320 It is valuable to note that H.P.B.'s last article was: "MY BOOKS" published in Lucifer for April 1891. It is a resume evidencing the nature of her writings as the recorded teachings of the Masters of Wisdom. In April 1896 Mr. Judge's last article appeared in the PATH/THEOSOPHY: "H.P.B. WAS NOT DESERTED BY MASTERS"-- it is his statement confirming his belief in the reliability of HPB, the Messenger. Mr. Crosbie's last article: "IS THEOSOPHY A PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM OF RELIGION ?" (Theosophy, July 1919) reiterates the position that Theosophy is not a constantly changing set of ideas, but a consistent and complete body of knowledge to be studied, applied and promulgated as originally presented. [ Mr. Fussell, once one of Mr. Judge's secretaries, and afterwards, secretary to Mrs. Tingley of Point Loma T S wrote some letters containing slanderous statements on Mr. Crosbie's character, after his death. Mr. Garrigues showed these letters to Mrs. Josephine Crosbie. She indignantly repudiated the statements that Mr. Fussell made. She stated that they were false and untrue. She also publicly challenged Mr. Fussell to prove them. He made no response to this. THY 23 390; THY 23 491-2 ] ___________________________ In the August 20th 1919 issue of the O. E. LIBRARY CRITIC, published by Dr. Stokes from Washington, D.C. notes:-- "One cannot help comparing the exaltation of personalities and the self-advertising which is so much in evidence in the official journals of the T.S. with the policy of the magazine THEOSOPHY, in which all the material, editorial or otherwise, which is written by still living persons, is anonymous. For nearly seven years this journal has published admirable original articles and editorials and not once have the names of the writers appeared. The excellent letters written by the United Lodge of Theosophists to inquirers are never signed, except by the name of the Lodge. It now appears for the first time that Robert Crosbie, who recently died, was not only the chief editor of THEOSOPHY, but the author of many of the best articles and letters issued by the Lodge. From the first issue of the journal up to the last issue, announcing his death, not once does the name of Robert Crosbie, or even his initials, appear. Nowhere are we recommended to get his photograph and meditate upon it; nowhere are we regaled with accounts of his movements; nobody tells us how miserable they are because Robert Crosbie has gone to Boston and not telegraphed back from each station; not one line is given to expatiating on his greatness. And herein we see the true theosophical spirit exemplified, the desire to serve without reward other than the privilege of rendering the service...To the work of teaching real Theosophy, Robert Crosbie not only devoted his life, but sacrificed it, seeking neither reputation, honor nor glory, yes, more, deliberately turning his back on them. "To be seen of men," that is a form of personal ambition, "the first curse,--the great tempter of the man who is rising above his fellows." "Kill out ambition," that is the first precept laid down in LIGHT ON THE PATH...." Dr. H. N. Stokes, O.E.L.C. (Aug. 1919, OELC) Again, In the March 1933 issue of the O.E.LIBRARY CRITIC, Dr. Stokes writes: "Aside from the Great Lights of Theosophy, few theosophical writers appeal to me more than Robert Crosbie, founder of the United Lodge of Theosophists, and I rejoice in the occasional quotations from his talks which appear in the U.L.T. magazines. Further, it is always a joy to note when any of his devoted followers of the United Lodge, here, there or anywhere, live up to the spirit of his dictum (Theosophy, Feb. 1920, page 107): "Neither Jesus nor H.P.B. lived and died in order that a book or books might be swallowed wholesale, nor even that men should become disciples, but that all men should become brothers." To this one might add that Robert Crosbie did not live in order that books or pamphlets lauding--and misrepresenting--him should be "swallowed wholesale," but that truth should prevail... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "The magazine Theosophy, which was edited by Robert Crosbie up to the time of his death last July [1919], has just begun publishing a series of his articles, letters and talks. Many are extremely lucid and illuminating, and no theosophical student should miss them, no matter to what society he belongs." Dr. H.N.Stokes (Nov. 1919, OELC) ++ =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D++ Following the principles of the ULT DECLARATION neither Mr. Crosbie, nor has any student of the ULT made any public claim to be a "successor," "leader," or "teacher." Each student and inquirer has been carefully put into direct touch with H P B, our teacher through her writings--original and unchanged. Each has been encouraged to study, work for Theosophy, and practice that universal brotherhood which forms the unifying basis of all Nature. Mr. Judge's writings have been selected for study and reproduction because they most faithfully and carefully follow and supplement Mme. Blavatsky's writings and all students are encouraged to prove this for themselves. B I B L I O G R A P H Y Robert Crosbie THE FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER -- Letters and talks by R. Crosbie ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY -- Unedited selections from questions asked and answers given by Robert Crosbie in study classes in the Ocean of Theosophy by Wm. Q. Judge THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT : 1875 - 1925 -- edited by R.C. BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY -- short stories illustrating practical Theosophy for children. -- edited by R.C. UNIVERSAL THEOSOPHY -- a reprint of selected talks and letters by Mr. Crosbie culled from The Friendly Philosopher [ 1963 ] Articles on Mr. Crosbie THEIR COLLEAGUE PASSES -- an appreciation of his work in and for ULT and THEOSOPHY magazine THY 7-289 THE GUIDANCE OF ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 26-337 LOYALTY: [ OF ROBERT CROSBIE ] -- THY 19-337 THE RECORD OF ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 25-337 THEOSOPHISTS AND ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 24-337 ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 21-337 HE KEPT THE LINES UNBROKEN -- THEOS. MVT. 16- 99 FOUNDER OF THE ULT -- THEOS. MVT. 4-113 THE U.L.T. AND ITS FOUNDER -- THEOS. MVT. 14-113 (...)=20 I Hope This May Be Of Some Use To You And Your Friends In Boston. Best wishes, Dallas =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 04:14:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61466 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 12:08:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 12:08:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 12:08:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:08:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:08:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:08:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:08:10 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.124 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: OUR PLANET AND A PROPHECY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=kx9Iou6apyfrkgLlAvKHVF2amx9-vNI6BLNIi_s3lCkg98M6fK9JbfQ X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38176 Dear Friends,=20 =20 We as planetary citizens live special moments these years. Higher and lower tides of human ethics have a significant degree of=20 influence on the fate of civilizations.=20=20 That becomes most clear when we see the Puranic Prophecy as=20 registered by H.P.B. in the pages of "The Secret Doctrine":=20 "There will be contemporary monarchs, reigning over the earth =96=20=20 kings of churlish spirit, violent temper, and ever addicted to=20 falsehood and wickedness. They will inflict death on women,=20 children, and cows (...) they will be of unlimited power, their=20 lives will be short, their desires insatiable. (...) Property=20 alone will confer rank ; wealth will be the only source of devotion;=20 passion will be the only bond of union between the sexes; falsehood=20 will be the only means of success in litigation, and women will be=20=20 objects merely of sensual gratification... until the human race=20 approaches its annihilation (pralaya) ..... When the close of the=20 of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being which=20 exists, of its own spiritual nature . . . shall descend on=20 Earth . . . (Kalki avatar) (.....) He will re-establish=20 righteousness on earth and the minds of those who live at the end=20 of Kali Yuga shall be awakened and become as pellucid as crystal." Again, we can't refer these words automatically to some far-distant=20 future =96 because we know that greater cycles are anticipated by=20 minor cycles.=20 Immediately below this transcription of the puranic prophecy, HPB=20 wrote, not without an irony:=20 "Whether right or wrong with regard to the latter prophecy, the=20 blessings of Kali Yuga are well described, and fit in admirably even=20 with that which one sees and hears in Europe and other civilized and=20 Christian lands in full XIXth, and at the dawn of XXth century of=20 our great era of ENLIGHTENMENT." (1)=20 Since inner and outer events are always connected, it becomes=20 easier for us to understand some aspects of the karmic and ethical=20 responsibility belonging to the theosophical movement =96 and to each=20 of its members =96 as to the fate of our present civilization. HPB=20 didn't refuse to write about that. In more than one text, she=20 acknowledged the existence of a direct link between the level of=20=20 loyalty to Truth in the theosophical movement =96 and the destiny of=20 mankind in the years after her lifetime.=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 =20 NOTE:=20 (1) "The Secret Doctrine", H. P. Blavatsky, The Theosophy Co., Los=20 Angeles, 1982, volume I, pp. 377-378. =20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 04:27:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55416 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 12:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 12:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 12:20:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:17:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:17:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:17:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.33 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: PLATONIC SPRING X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=hrJxrDWNGs05WOZZqAhHAKLEoiAV_hUR1whLLvPPQqlbhlOCp95KEdc X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38177 Dear Friends,=20 How much of direc knowledge we have about esoteric philosophy? And=20 how much of hearsay?=20=20 Only direct knowledge -- not blind belief -- is the source of a=20 lasting sense of co-responsibility, or wisdom.=20=20 An accurate, heartfelt perception of things results in a sense of=20 ethics and an active intention to be useful.=20 Perhaps it was to highlight the significance of this feeling of=20 personal acountabilitiy that Thomas Taylor, the great=20 neoplatonist, wrote a few centuries ago:=20 "A little learning is a dangerous thing.=20 Drink deep, or taste not the PLATONIC spring; There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely, sobers us again." (1)=20=20 Ethical responsibility emerging from deep knowledge makes us be=20 sober again =96 because it eventually leads us into both inner and=20 outer action.=20=20=20 Best regards, Carlos.=20=20 =20 NOTE:=20 (1) "The Theosophist", Adyar, India, Volume II, December 1880, p.=20 52.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 04:48:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52506 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 12:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 12:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.75) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 12:42:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:40:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:40:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:40:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.73.160.75 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: Peace Ideas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=Tjm8Zpgc8WQ3BMfLU774ztFG9rPqACEU5HOq46wSmy65W7Ib26OqWfo X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38178 Friends, I just saw in the website of the "Theosophy Company" (ULT) the link=20 to 'an old acquaintance'; the magazine "Peace Ideas", which is=20 published by the TS (Adyar) in the Philippines.=20 The Philippines TS published the Chronological Edition of the "Mahatma=20 Letters", a significant editorial accomplishment made by Mr. Vic Hao=20 Shin.=20 "Peace Ideas" is a magazine dedicated to living Theosophy in one's=20 daily life.=20 For some time, a few Brazilian theosophists intended to publish it in=20 Portuguese language. The project was abandoned, but "Peace Ideas" is=20 still an excellent magazine/bulletin. You may take a look at it at http://www.info.com.ph/~tspeace/ .=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 04:52:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40752 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 12:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 12:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 12:50:06 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:47:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:47:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 12:47:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:47:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.14.121.76 From: "cardosoaveline" Subject: ARE WE RESPONSIBLE? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=wT8VGrSqUKNJnJtQ3tiF7DBvpSoU3oPUHE4feuTY9tg6mXwq1fxSN1E X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38179 Dear Friends,=20 "The Key to Theosophy" is one of the texts in which HPB links the=20 future of civilization to the work of the theosophical movement.=20=20 She writes in the final paragraph of that book:=20 "Tell me if I am too sanguine when I say that if the Theosophical=20 Society survives and lives true to its mission, to its original=20 impulses through the next hundred years =96 tell me, I say, if I go=20 too far in asserting that earth will be a heaven in the twenty- first century in comparison with what it is now!" (1)=20 The next paragraphs of the story of mankind may be most=20=20 interesting, at least for present generations.=20 The 21st century is a page to be written. It will not be written=20 with words. It must be written with actions, and especially by=20 people who have goodwill with regard to the future of mankind, and=20 by the thousands or millions of people who feel co-responsible for=20 its transition to a better situation.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 =20 NOTE:=20 (1) The Key to Theosophy, H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophy Co., India ,=20=20 1987, p. 305.=20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 05:38:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71414 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 13:34:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 13:34:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buraja.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.198) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 13:34:09 -0000 Received: from fomboni.hst.terra.com.br (fomboni.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.15]) by buraja.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB30722A416F for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:33:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: b04ae6b0817e2095092732daa63c1a0f Received-SPF: pass (fomboni.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.15 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.15; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (morone.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.178]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by fomboni.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B37109007C for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:33:57 -0200 (BRST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:33:57 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.14.121.76 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Re:Carlos Aveline can ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=PO553f7oAMJhHSeuVwr6n34zk6BG95apTjBu8AgxxjxetLxyRUU6jwo X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38180 Daniel, And now you stop criticizing the ULT, in order to criticize... myself? It'= s an honour. Was this a suggestion you received from "David Green"? :-)=20 Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Fri, 01 Dec 2006 03:17:48 -0000 Assunto:Theos-World Carlos Aveline can distract all he wants... > Carlos Aveline can distract all he wants by=20 > not responding to the subject under discussion... > in this case certain matters about the ULT=20 > and Robert Crosbie. >=20 > Notice that Mr. Aveline seldom if ever directly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 06:02:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53756 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 14:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 14:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bulimba.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.194) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 14:00:15 -0000 Received: from caliope.hst.terra.com.br (caliope.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.8]) by bulimba.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E2B130C0F5 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:58:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 0539cecadd6c46552a12ab7a8fe09239 Received-SPF: pass (caliope.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.8; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (morone.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.178]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by caliope.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BC228200AB for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:58:33 -0200 (BRST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:58:33 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.14.121.76 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.194 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Duane and Dialogue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=dZKmV0ETEwb2UI2ABqXpy3vX6H7vi_1p3bHLhcNIBgbYvXERdEepSjw X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38181 Dear Duane, Thank you for your kind message. I fully agree that if there is an ethical= attitude and basic truthfulness, all matters can be discussed without any= strong sense of personal antagonism. And we should be able to do so in th= e theosophical movement, that is, in the community of those who have good w= ill for Life and for our planet.=20 I guess you can give a good contribution in Theos-talk, and if you have jo= ined us but recently, or just joined the dialogue -- I welcome you.=20=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:37:06 -0800 (PST) Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Mark, Duane and Occultism > Hi Carlos > Thank you for your wisdom and insights. You are by design a natural media= tor. your statement "...that their is a sad absence of any authentic feelin= g of co-resposibility for the planet or for the destiny of our present civi= lization" says much The teachings given in Theosophy about the sutratma and= building the Antahkarana are about building bridges. Veritically up into t= he hidden realms of spirit but also horizontally out into the world of man.= If occult groups and organizations cannot exchange ideas about different s= ubjects without antagonism then how are we to exspect average humanity who = without hardly any training to get it together?. Should we not be setting a= n example to those younger students who may be just stepping onto the path?= Not to falsely inflate the importance of what any of us say here on the ne= t but is it not staggering in its implications that people from all around = the world can read with interrest what some of the best Theosophical minds = have to > offer?. Rumi in one of his poems that I cannot presently find asks the re= ader to imagine that this next conversation he or she might have with there= fellow man is their very last. Would it make any difference in the quality= or tone of what we would communicate to each other?. The internet and its = use is both a privelege and a responsibility that goes way beyond our month= ly fees. Should we not treat it as if it were our own child? Giving it both= love and the spiritual nourishment it deserves.=20 > Thank you all for sharing your vast knowledge and many insights about The= osophy. I wish you all high marks in God's little school.=20 > Sincerely D- >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 06:15:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23803 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 14:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 14:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO burta.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.199) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 14:09:59 -0000 Received: from aldabra.terra.com.br (aldabra.terra.com.br [200.176.10.17]) by burta.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860AF4B78165 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:06:17 -0200 (BRST) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: ff515efb21a2478955274e1a4b3e9412 Received-SPF: pass (aldabra.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.17 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.17; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (morone.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.178]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by aldabra.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id E809B11D80F8 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:06:16 -0200 (BRST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:06:16 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.14.121.76 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: "GOODWILL" ON LIFE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=3gzBFaoHrn4j_RE5vsERK0a83WqYdy7zhBCrO4xi4jn3uqPXDIgGvKk X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38182 Dear Friends,=20 This is from the Newsletter of the "World Goodwill" movement, which has be= en very active in stimulating planetary consciousness.=20=20=20 oooooooooooooooo WHAT IS LIFE?=20 " In this issue of the Newsletter we will look at this most fundamental of = all questions:How do we perceive life, and how deeply do we understand this= energy that lies at the very heart of human existence? How we answer these= questions affects how we think about the many issues that arise today:the = beginning and ending of life, birth and death, the right to life, the right= to a good death, when to sustain life, and when =96 or if =96 to terminate= life.=20 These questions are no longer discussed only in the hushed tones of the phy= sician=92s office; they are now dealt with in the public square and everyon= e is invited to state their opinion. World Goodwill, however, does not take= a specific position on many of these issues like abortion or euthanasia. B= ut we do try to provide a deeper, esoteric perspective on the nature of lif= e. More than ever there is a need to deepen our understanding of these issu= es so that the opinions of each of us are based on what we believe to be cl= oser to the truth as it is revealed today. But all of these questions stem = from the most basic question of all: What is Life? (...)"=20 See more at=20 ttp://www.lucistrust.org/goodwill/nl/2006/3/index.shtml .=20 Regards, Carlos.=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monad_monad_monad@yahoo.com Fri Dec 01 06:33:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: monad_monad_monad@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39601 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 14:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 14:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web55913.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (216.252.110.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 14:31:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27659 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Dec 2006 14:31:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ktOQFuUVM1mfpIXHnbrrsxl6IpVoWgRuWCQUZXAkxExhP34sO3nl20Ea8hFUFOrlNG_QDd4dIXoh6tRHR3IKQ6xnq1DEBr20UCCsDFzRogFENIFbMIrKtg-- Received: from [64.222.168.7] by web55913.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 06:31:11 PST Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 06:31:11 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <900737.27467.qm@web55913.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 216.252.110.74 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Duane Carpenter Subject: Re: Theos-World DALLAS WRITES ON THE ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=282920312; y=UqhLfUFq4p_jpsC6a2SAgQ3e774Pl63zN9fqbG2NAzApykgHpRYk3brDob0 X-Yahoo-Profile: monad_monad_monad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38183 Hi Carlos Thank you for the Robert Crosbie connection via Dallas. Was it Goethe who once said something to the effect that if I have achieved great things or can see great distances it is because I have stood on the shoulders of Giants?. I am humbled by these testimonies and the older I become the more gratitude I have for the hard work, vision and tenacity a number of key Theosophist have exhibited down through the years. And beyond my understanding no doubt down through the ages. Although I am a Theosophist that has traveled exstensively and worked in many lodges over the years the Boston chapter has a special place in my life. My first task when working there as President was to clean house of all the lower psyhic clap trap and psuedo-spirituality that are attracted to the Theosophical energy but are unable or unwilling to make the commitment to its larger vision. I understand only to well the need of many Thesophist to get back to the original teachings and re-establish the core values. Some Theoshical lodges can often play a curious role of becoming an umbrella organization for every new Age organization that could not make it on there own. This nurturing of the TS to other organizations can become a double edged sword for these organizations can often repay the local chapters or lodges for there generosity with an attempt to take over the lodges and teach there brand or version of Theosophy. I have often found that true theosopical understanding is often in direct confrontation with organizations or organizational work. No doubt a paradox since people need certain material forms to ground out and perpetuate what they see as important teachings. I am reminded of the naturalist and early trancendentalist H.D. Thoreau who lived just outside Boston who once said: "Where there is no love organizations spring up". My tenure with the Boston Theosophical society ended when I realized 95% of my time was devoted to politics and running the lodge and the remaining 5% to teaching. In my memoirs that i am presently working on I will elaborate on the impasses and seemingly endless cul-de-sacs I encounterd in my two short years there. A story of fate, blows of destiny and financial trickery that will rival any of the dramas conyeyed by others who have been in the fray of things and fought with therir last once of courage to preseve true Theosophical values.The Boston lodge known for its free-thinking and independance style finally had its charter removed and a new one issued to those who could tote the party line. Those who were central to these issues called our crises "The Theosophical Boston tea party" where a local lodge no longer wanted to be under the control of national headquarters and like patriots of old - rebeled. A lodge that wanted to have its own finances separated from National Headquarters. Down through history excommunication is often the prefered method of certain group who need conformity, uniformity and control over what it sees as its possesions or subjects. True Theosophy is equally about Freedom as it is Truth. The Freedom to belief as one wishes and the Freedom to change ones own inner enviorenment at will . True Theosophy is also about Impersonality and hence the great opportunity the webb has to offer. Does it matter that I have three heads and my skin color is blue?. I think not. I like to feel that I will be evaluated or judged by the quality of my thoughts be they of sufficient interrest or value. People rarely tell their stories or share insights about controversial events until long after they have passed. Why is this so? Perhaps for many reasons. One obvious reason is litigation. You cannot sue the departed if they no longer reside on the physical plane. True Theosophist are often plagued by smeer campaigns, lies, and law suits as history testifies. Thank you Carlos and other members of the group who contribute. It does make a difference and the Theosophical spirits of the departed, whatever you conceive them to be, are never far from our lofty thoughts and intense idealism. Blessings to the group D- rdosoaveline wrote: Dear Friends, I reproduce below the Notes written by our common friend Dallas TenBroeck (who died a few months ago) , on the life of the great Theosophist Robert Crosbie. It is the best biographical text on Mr. Crosbie that I have known so far. It also describes many an aspect of the History of the United Lodge of Theosophists. Regards, Carlos. oooooooooooooooooooooooooo by dalval14 Friday, August 24, 2001 =============== COPY ================== Brief Notes on Mr. Robert Crosbie' Life and Work: R O B E R T C R O S B I E The Friendly Philosopher 1849 -- 1919 __________________ BIOGRAPHICAL NOTES Mr. Crosbie is to be known through his writings:-- THE FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER -- 415 pp. (Letters & Lectures) ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS on the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY NOTES ON THE BHAGAVAD GITA, (Chapters: 8 to 18) Editor of THEOSOPHY MAGAZINE:- 1912 - 1919 Editor: THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT: 1875-1925 (History) Editor: BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY. (Stories) Editor. THE ETERNAL VERITIES ( Text for Theosophy School ) =================================================== Bio Notes January 10th 1849 Born:- Montreal, Canada Both parents were Scottish, they met and married in Canada. His father was connected for many years with the Hudson Bay Co. as a supervisor, traveling from Post to Post for a good part of the year. His mother was a companion to Lady Simpson, wife of the Governor of the Hudson Bay Company. A "highlander," she had, but rarely used, her capacity for "second-sight." She lived a life of self-sacrifice, compassion, and service to others. 1865 R C was raised a Presbyterian, and was invited to join the communion at 16; R C said he considered himself still "unfit." The subsequent discussions caused him to doubt the honesty of that church's practices. He determined to find "the Truth, which must be knowledge," and which was to be found in due course by seeking it. Then he adopted an attitude of constant questioning as to life's object, pain, sickness, death, mercy, justice, fate. He found that the religions around him offered no satisfactory answers when he questioned them deeply.. 1869 R C, and an older partner started a leather and shoe manufacturing business in Montreal. Soon after that he married the daughter of his partner. His partner's wife died, and this brought on an interest in spiritualism. Crosbie, investigating that, found nothing attractive in its facts or philosophy. R C observed some fraud. In some cases, hypnotism seems to have been involved. He then studied hypnotism, mesmerism, clairvoyance and telepathy with some personal success, but always had a sense of restraint, an instinctive sense of its inherent dangers. The "psychic powers latent in man" were found to exist and seen by him, but their rationale was still to be understood. He sensed there was danger in those, and also sensed that he was receiving "some guidance" which he later said, helped him avoid "unconscious black magic practices." Crosbie always had a strong regard for the rights of others, and, aware of this, always exercised a strong moral control over himself. "...from his earliest years deeply interested in religious, philosophical and occult subjects..." THY. Vol. 7 p. 320 A favorable opportunity to sell their business in Montreal arose. The partners, after the sale, went to Boston, and there started another shoe and leather manufacturing business. It became well known and was highly respected. 1886-8 One day, R C's partner brought him news of the proposed establishment of a branch of the Theosophical Society in Boston. As the word: Theo-Sophia suggested much to him, Crosbie went to the first meeting. He recognized at once that this was what he was searching for, and he joined the T S immediately. (Admitted: June 5th, 1888) Soon after, Mr. W. Q. Judge came to Boston to speak at the Branch of the T S, and Crosbie was introduced to him together with other new members. After the meeting, leaving for his hotel, Judge called back to Crosbie: "Good night Crosbie, I've got you on my list !" Mr. Crosbie recorded: "a veil was lifted...a tie was formed which has never since been broken." Mr. Judge came frequently to Boston and stayed at the Crosbie house. When Crosbie visited New York he would stay with him. See: THY. Vol. 24, 337; THY 64, 229 ] 1888 Of this first meeting with Mr. Judge, Crosbie wrote : "A FRIEND OF OLD TIME AND OF THE FUTURE" "The first Theosophical treatise I read was his Epitome of Theosophy; my first meeting with him changed the whole current of my life. I trusted him then as I trust him now and all those whom he trusted...trust is the bond that binds, that makes the strength of the Movement, for it is of the heart. And this trust he called forth was not allowed to remain a blind trust, for as time went on, as the energy, steadfastness and devotion of the student became more marked, the "real W.Q.J." was more and more revealed, until that power radiated through him became in each an ever present help in the work. As such, it remains to-day, a living power in each heart that trusted him, a focus for the Rays of the coming "great messenger." "Having been engaged in active T.S. work in Boston for over seven years, it has been my Karma to be brought in touch with him under many different circumstances, the various crises, local and general, through which the Society has safely passed... The future will reveal much in regard to him that is now hidden, will show the real scope of his life- work... The lines have been laid down for us by H.P.B., W.Q.J., and Masters, and we can take again our watchword, that which he gave us at the passing of H.P.B., 'Work, watch and wait.' We will not have long to wait." -- R. Crosbie THY 7-292 Crosbie, in retrospect observed that in those early years, students had few materials for the actual study of Theosophy. There were only HPB's ISIS UNVEILED, articles in the issues of THE THEOSOPHIST and THE PATH, ESOTERIC BUDDHISM, and the OCCULT WORLD written by Mr. Sinnett. Later, apart from articles in Theosophist, Lucifer, and Path, HPB wrote THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, THE SECRET DOCTRINE and THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE. Judge in publishing the magazine The Path (1886-1896), provided students with a great many practical hints on Theosophy. These not only covered his observations, but illustrated aspects of doctrine and metaphysics which students were interested in. October 1888 When the E.S. was formed, Mr. Crosbie became one of its earliest members. He was first Secretary and later President of the E S Group in Boston under a charter issued to him by HPB through Mr. Judge, her agent in America. THY 24 337, THY 23 100 "(He)...identified himself with the Dzyan section of the Theosophical Movement and the T S., and was for many years the devoted and close Companion of William Q. Judge, and an occult pupil of H.P. Blavatsky...He...loved these two great Beings, trusted Them and those whom They trusted..." THY 7 320; THY 7 290 Mr. Judge, in his lifetime, used to refer students in the New England States to Mr. Crosbie, saying:- "Ask Crosbie, he thinks and acts as I do." THY 24-337 1889 Crosbie was elected Secretary of the Boston Branch T S, nominated by C.F.Willard. Mr. Griggs was its President. June 1891 After HPB's death Mr. Judge put Crosbie in charge of the EST Groups in the 7 New England States. This was done under a charter issued by HPB to Robert Crosbie through him as her agent in America. December 1891 Crosbie was present in New York at a meeting with Mrs. A. Besant, Mr. Judge, and other Theosophists at Astor House. During that meeting, Mrs. Besant narrated the events that took place following the death of HPB at the General Council Meeting of the I. G. of the E. S. in London on May 27th 1891. This meeting followed H P B's death. Mr. Judge was present as "HPB's representative, with full power." Mrs. A. Besant was present as "secretary and recorder of the teachings." In the meeting at New York, Annie Besant stated that at that time, a "note" on which the Master had written:-- "Judge's plan is right," fell out of the packet of letters she had tied, and which had been in her sole possession, until she had brought it, herself, to that meeting. This related to Mr. Judge's suggestion of having two Co-"Outer-Heads" for the E S to carry on its guidance, A. Besant to be responsible primarily for the "Eastern section" [Britain, Europe and Asia], and Judge for the "Western section" [Americas, Australia], and both to stay in all cases in mutual consultative positions as "Co-Outer Heads." She was to supervise E S Groups in England and Europe in the East, Mr. Judge to supervise America and groups in the West, and both were to work in close consultation, cooperation and harmony with each-other. Mr. Crosbie made a written record of this meeting, along with others who were also present. Later, during the furor of the "Judge Case," Mrs. Besant repudiated this statement. THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT-- 1875-1925, pp. 646, 296-7, 649-50. It may also be noted that Mrs. Besant had separately written on this object to Jasper Neimand (Mrs. Julia Keightley) and therein she had then made the statement that the note from the Master had "fallen out of the bundle she had earlier tied together, and locked in her desk. [ See W. Q. Judge bio-notes ] 1892 Crosbie's first marriage did not go at all well. One of their daughters was sickly from birth and needed constant nursing, for this special help several servants to assist Mrs. Crosbie were hired successively. When R C became interested in Theosophy around 1888, the situation at the home with Mrs. Crosbie worsened and a legal separation was agreed on around 1892. A suit for permanent divorce followed, and this became final some years later. At this time, Mr. Crosbie sold his business and turned the proceeds as well as their house over to his wife. Later, a fire in that home occurred and this may have killed his first wife and their children after the divorce. He then started a new leather business on his own in Boston. 1892 Mr. Crosbie was appointed President of the Boston E.S. In addition he was also the President of the Boston T S Branch. April 1892 He helped organize the 5th Convention of the American Section of the T.S. held in Boston April 24/25th 1892. April 1895 In 1895 he helped organize the 8th Convention of the American Section of the T. S. in Boston, (April 28/29th, 1895 ). It was during this convention that the American Section passed resolutions that transformed it into the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY IN AMERICA, giving it full legal autonomy. On p. 24 of the Report for the Convention, we find Mr. Judge stating in an article the basis for fraternal affiliation which unites all Theosophical working bodies and Theosophists together: -- "The Unity of the Theosophical Movement does not depend upon the singleness of organizations, but upon the similarity of work and aspiration; and in this we will 'KEEP THE LINK UNBROKEN !'" (Those were HPB's last words.) Along with Mr. L. Wade, and Mr. Ayers, Mr. Crosbie submitted to the Convention an "Historical Sketch of the T.S." (Published in PATH). This traced the major events of its existence and work in America since 1875. And, this was included in the Proceedings and Report issued by the Convention. One of the points made was that legally the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY had never removed from New York where it was originally started in 1875. H P B and Col. Olcott had been delegated as a Committee to visit India and make an official connection with the Arya Samaj [Society of the Nobles] which had Pundit Dayanand Saraswati as its leader and chief. Later, Col. Olcott, as President for Life, in India declared that the Headquarters of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY were wherever he was residing. This was never passed as a formal Resolution by the Original THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in New York. The original Minute Book is on deposit in the archives of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Pasadena. Thus Adyar became the H Q. Later a pamphlet embodying this information was issued under the title: WHAT IS THE THEOSOPHICAL ORGANIZATION ? 1894 -- 1896 During this period Mr. Judge was attacked, exonerated, and, later persecuted again by the chief officers of the T. S. outside of America. Those were Col. H. S. Olcott the President Founder, and Mrs. Annie Besant as President of the British and European Sections of the T S. Contemporary Theosophical magazines printed articles and contributions on this, and from them, considered altogether one may reconstruct the motives and events. Neither of these two officers appeared to have understood that Mr. Judge (and Mr. Crosbie in Boston) stood primarily for Theosophy (as HPB did) and not just for the T S as an organization. To them, the T S was a useful tool, to be sustained as a promulgating body for the doctrines of Theosophy. And for sustaining the CAUSE of THEOSOPHY: Universal Brotherhood. To Judge and Crosbie, and others in America and England, the T S was to be directed on the basis of the principles which Theosophy laid down and no others. No individuals' "authority" was recognized by them. Each member's free-will and free-determination was his own responsibility and no one else could wield authority over him or her. Theosophy alone was held to be the sole reason for the T S; and the Officers, in its management ought to present that basis at all times. 1894 - 96 Mr. Crosbie supported Mr. Judge's principles fully. He acted as one of the "witnesses on the scene." He, kept the "link" of pure Theosophy "unbroken," after Mr. Judge's death. The hints given by W.Q.J. during his life in regard to Crosbie were not grasped by those around him, who had what they fancied to be their own positions. And, in addition, seemed to be glamoured and deluded by the psychic powers Mrs. Tingley exhibited (she had only been a member for only a year prior to Mr. Judge's death). In New York, Mr. Neresheimer, who was Mr. Judge's executor and Mr. Hargrove went through Judge's papers. They found what was later described as an incomplete and very fragmentary, cryptic diary of Mr. Judges', but which Hargrove claimed (in 1896) to be an "occult" diary; and in this, he said he detected that Mr. Judge had indicated that Mrs. Tingley was to "succeed" him. Mr. Neresheimer had introduced Mrs. Tingley to W. Q. J. about a year before his death. She became a member of the T S and later, a member of the E S. She was a psychic and apparently did not have a very profound knowledge of Theosophical philosophy. She had however been of help to Mr. Judge during the last year of his life which was spent in great discomfort and illness. However this gave her no special "position" in regard to the management of the T.S. or the conduct of the E.S. Many years later (1923), Mr. Neresheimer made a legal deposition outlining these events, and in that he reversed some of his earlier pronouncements, on which the "succession" of Mrs. Tingley had been based. This deposition is available. >>From time to time this "occult diary" has been mentioned as giving "authority" for the "Tingley succession," however, when requests were made to see it, or have it published, for all to verify, this was not done at that time. Copies were made of it and are available from several sources, but a reader will find it is difficult to establish any coherence in those phrases and notes. (see also: THY 3, p. 280) March 1896 Mr. Judge died March 21st l896. Mr. Crosbie was in Boston. Of the events in New York, he wrote:-- "Two or three of the New York members--notably E.T.Hargrove and E.A.Neresheimer--obtained possession of Mr. Judge's keys and went through his private papers; in these [ they said ] they found reference to a certain "chela," whom Neresheimer determined to be Mrs. Tingley whom he had known for about a year, and whom he had brought to Judge's notice. The idea being in their minds that there must of necessity be an occult successor, and concurring in the opinion that Mrs. T. was indicated, they sent out a circular to the E. S. that Judge had appointed her as such. The minds of all, being in the receptive condition I have mentioned, accepted everything as stated by the few in New York. The attitude assumed by Mrs. T. soon began to estrange those members who were brought in close touch with her in New York, but those at a distance had no inkling of the true state of affairs and kept on in full confidence. Those who found that they had made a mistake in the first place in foisting Mrs. T. upon the organization were in too doubtful a position to attempt explanations; one of them only -- Mr. Neresheimer--(who had introduced her to Judge)--remaining her supporter...his support was sufficient to offset any withdrawal of the others in New York." "Mrs. T. took advantage of the situation, and most plausibly and shrewdly strengthened her position for two years after her advent, then formed the "UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD" with herself as absolute dictator; carrying with her by far the greater number of the members throughout the country. A year later she went to Point Loma and established the institution there." 1896 Crosbie wrote in an autobiographical note: -- "As to my part in it--I was in Boston, and saw no reason to doubt the statements of those in N.Y. whom I believed to be sincere and of good training and judgment..." (Autobiographical Note by R.C.) In the May 1896 issue of THEOSOPHY (formerly--The PATH) will be found an article signed by Mr. Crosbie: -- " A FRIEND OF OLD TIME AND OF THE FUTURE " reprinted: THY 7 292 (Already quoted above) 19 close friends of Mr. Judge wrote articles about him that were published in the May, June and July issues of THEOSOPHY. The death of Mr. Judge brought choices to Mr. Crosbie. Some of those are hinted at in articles to be found printed in: THEOSOPHY, Vol. 24, pp. 339-40, THEOSOPHY, Vol. 64, pp. 229 1896 One of these related to impersonality, on which he offered his thoughts. [see Friendly. Philosopher, pp. 127-8] April 1896 and later Mr. Crosbie, in Boston was in cordial relations with Mrs. Tingley who had been placed, shortly after Mr. Judge's death, in the position of "Outer Head" of the E S Section of the T S in America. He retained his supervision of its affairs over the area comprising the New England states. 1897-1900 In reviewing this period, Mr. Crosbie wrote:-- "I was in Boston and had no reason to doubt the statements of those in N.Y. whom I believed to be sincere and of good training and judgment. I should have known by other means the true state of affairs...when Judge passed out of life, I lost touch with him; doubtless I relied on him too much, and had not exercised my own intuition; from later events my comprehension is, that this loss of touch was purposely done in order that I might strengthen my weakness in that direction. I went to Point Loma at Mrs. T's urgent request to assist in the proposed work, and was there two years, helping to prepare the way for the expected developments, before I began to get back the touch I had lost. I am prone to excuse inconsistencies and deviations in others, so that although I had begun to doubt, and to see, it was more than a year afterwards I saw so clearly and unmistakably that I took occasion to tell Mrs. T. the facts as I saw them, and to state my intention to withdraw from all connection with her. She tried of course in every way to change my determination, but finding me unchangeable, she let me go, and as I afterwards heard, gave out that she had sent me away for 'bad conduct'--just what I do not know." (AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL NOTE by R.C.) 1900 Mr. Crosbie married his second wife: Josephine Parsons, on April 10th 1900, in Manchester, N.H. They had two children: a daughter named Kathleen, (Kay, Kittie) and a son: Cameron. These two went to High School in Long Beach, Ca. They had neighbors who also came to U.L.T. and were students of Theosophy and who remember them well. (R. McOwen, R. Law) 1900 - MOVE TO POINT LOMA Mr. Crosbie was summoned by Mrs. Tingley to take up residence in Point Loma outside of San Diego, California, where a Headquarters had been located for the T S IN A, now renamed UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD and THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY. Mr. Crosbie noted that he had been active in Theosophical matters in Boston for some 14 years. THY 7 293 He went there with Mrs. Crosbie, and as was required then, on taking up residence, all their assets were turned over to the organization. He gave his support to Mrs. Tingley, as will be noted from several articles and letters of his written during those years. THEOS. MOVEMENT ('75-'50),p. 317-19 THY 65 159-60 Considering the close relationship that existed between Mr. Crosbie and Mr. Judge, and the special position that Mr. Crosbie occupies in the Theosophical Movement of modern times, one wonders whether Mr. Crosbie might not be considered a "shepherd" who was following his straying "flock." And when that "flock" dispersed, the "shepherd" went in search of a new one. 1904 - LEFT POINT LOMA Conflicting reports were circulated from the Point Loma organization as to why Mr. and Mrs. Crosbie left the Point Loma establishment. "A smudged entry: "Bad conduct" was entered against his name in the register of Members. None of the family assets which he turned over at the time of entry were returned to him. He and Mrs. Crosbie, when they left were left penniless. [ There have been hints ( Lischner Pamphlet ) of financial irregularities at Point Loma. Mr. and Mrs. Crosbie were not the only ones to leave at that time. Later, the T S at Point Loma went through a crisis around the time of Mrs. Tingley's death. They were heavily taxed without warning by the government on their extensive lands. As one who witnessed that event said: they were "land rich and cash poor" at the time.] THEOS. MOVEMENT ('75-50); THY 317-19; THY 23 492; THY 7 291 Mr. Crosbie is reported to have said: -- "We quietly left Point Loma." And that closed the subject. (The Register of Members kept in Point Loma shows a smudged remark in red ink against his name: "EXPELLED 1904.") 1906 Mr. & Mrs. Crosbie found a house to rent in South Pasadena on Bank St. He secured a job as a bookkeeper with the Los Angeles Times. This work was arduous and required long hours standing, and was not well paid. Like many others he rode the "Red Cars" (street-cars) to work. 1906 Mr. Crosbie became acquainted with his neighbors in South Pasadena. He found that they were interested in theosophical ideas, and with their joint interest a study class in Theosophy was started, using Mr. Judge's THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY, and Mme. Blavatsky's THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY as the first texts to be studied, and to this they added the BHAGAVAD GITA, the Theosophy of 5,000 years ago. "Robert Crosbie preserved unbroken the link of the Second Section of the Theosophical Movement from the passing of Mr. Judge in 1896, and in 1907--just eleven years later--made that link once more Four Square amongst men. In the year 1909 the Third Section was restored by the formation of the United Lodge of Theosophists. In 1912 he founded the magazine THEOSOPHY "THY. 7 - 289; THY 3 - 187/8; THE ULT, ITS MISSION & FUTURE, p.8. 1906 Organized Theosophical meetings were first held by Mr. Crosbie under a charter obtained from the T S in A that Hargrove had reformed, after splitting away from the Point Loma TS, in New York in 1898/99. This had attracted a number of Mr. Judge's earlier companions including Dr. A. Keightley and his wife, Julia, better known as "Jasper Neimand." THY 23-544-5 1907 A year later this Society in New York decided to change their appellation back to : "The THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY." Since this was considered injudicious, some in the L.A. Branch rejected the change. 1907 Mr. Crosbie and 7 others decided to organize on their own, adopting the original principles and the original program of the Masters which HPB and Mr. Judge had embodied practically during their life- time. These PRINCIPLES are to be found in the DECLARATION OF THE UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS THY 23-544-47 Nov. 17th 1908 Mr. Crosbie issued an announcement:-- "TO ALL OPEN-MINDED THEOSOPHISTS" [Reprinted in: THY 24 341; FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, 409 February 18th 1909 U.L.T. was launched. The DECLARATION is its only basis. An initial explanatory statement will be found in : THY 23-337 and FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, p. 412-14 "No formal bond existed among the Associates of the ULT, the sole object being the study and dissemination of Theosophy pure and simple." THY 23-102 & THY 23-548-9 There were 7 original associates. THY 23 102 , F.P. 412-4 1909 The "Third Section" was said to be restored by the formation of the U.L.T. THY 7 289; ULT ITS MISSION & FUTURE, p. 8 "All sincere Theosophists deplore the evils in the Movement and long for their eradication. They "dimly perceive" that these evils have an originating and sustaining cause which must be counteracted, but so long as their attention is fixed on effects, how can they , except with "divided mind," study the producing cause or causes ?...They cannot learn the truth about nature and themselves in any other school than that provided in Theosophy and in the lessons to be learned from self-study and the study of theosophical history. The Theosophists of today are ... faced with the same inherent difficulties, the same problems, the same weaknesses...but the real lack then is the real lack now--the disposition to face the facts, to make the necessary effort to gain first-hand knowledge of Theosophy as a basis and standard of discrimination and judgment--and then the will to act upon those finely established principles thus self-perceived...From the beginning, but a handful recognized the gravity of the issues involved, and that is still the case. ... work--the will to study, apply, and so come to understand the play of forces in human nature--is the practical application of the 3rd. Object." THEOSOPHY Vol. 23, pp. 102-3 The "semi-esoteric character of the U.L.T." was a phrase that Mr. Crosbie used. He also said that the ULT had to do work, which the various T Ses, then in existence, had all failed in. It had to work to restore the integrity of the Original Impulse, as laid down by Masters through HPB." THEOSOPHY Nov. 1951 THEOSOPHY Vol. 50, pp. 338 Crosbie stressed impersonality and anonymity to protect the work and to help protect the workers from "pride," and "ambition. "It was recorded that in his work Mr. Crosbie was "undeviating." THEOSOPHY Vol. 52, p. 252 As regards himself and family, Mr. Crosbie was always well dressed in public, at work, and at the Lodge rooms, so that Theosophy might not be rated on a poor personal appearance. He made a point of this to all those who worked at ULT. 1909 The children of Mr. & Mrs. Crosbie : 1. their daughter, Kathleen (Kay), married a Mr. Deeds (they had two children: Scott and Keith). 2. Their son's name was Cameron. After Mr. Crosbie's death, Mrs. Josephine Crosbie and their two children moved to Long Beach. Mrs. Crosbie eventually went to live in Corona, where she was "house mother" at a girl's boarding school. She was not heard of after 1935. Cameron Crosbie became a professional organist. During the depression he moved to New York and kept up some desultory contact with Mr. John Garrigues, while he was at the New York ULT. He eventually stopped coming and was no longer heard from. Mrs. Josephine Crosbie was always well regarded by those who knew her. She and Mr. Crosbie were neighborly, and as said earlier, they made friends with Mr. and Mrs. Garrigues, Mr. and Mrs. Clough, Mr. and Mrs. Law, and Mr. and Mrs. Church, and Mrs. Eloise Ives. Later still, this circle of friends was widened to include: Mr. and Mrs. Bentley ( Mrs. Bentley was for almost 35 years the superintendent of Theosophy School ); Mr. and Mrs. Wyman; Mr. and Mrs. Brinton Jones; Dr. and Mrs. Frederick F. Strong; Mr. and Mrs. Frederick Manske; Miss W. Egan, and many others. 1910 Letters "In The Beginning" (The FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER) were written by Mr. Crosbie to early students at various ULTs. Some of these lived and worked in the San Francisco area. These few letters concerned themselves with the principles on which the ULT was established. Impersonality, conferencing together on decisions affecting the operations of a Lodge, and a direct approach to the actual teachings of HPB and WQJ was stressed again and again. FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, pp. 376-7, 382-3 November 1912 THEOSOPHY magazine was founded, Mr. Crosbie serving as chief editor until his death in 1919. THY 7-291 1912 "In 1912, the mid-point of the 2nd quarter of the Movement, the magazine THEOSOPHY was founded to provide a medium for dealing with theosophical philosophy and history, free from sectarian affiliations or influences. Slowly the effort spread despite all obstacles and opposition, the impregnable basis of impersonal devotion keeping the work unsullied, an impersonality strictly continued after the death of Mr. Crosbie in 1919." THY 23-102 & THY 23-548 1914 THEOSOPHY magazine, in its second volume started to publish a series of articles on Theosophical History under the title: MASTERS AND THEIR MESSAGE. This historical review of the events and the documents of the modern THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT forms the basis for the book later issued under the title: THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT: 1875-1925, edited by Mr. Crosbie. 1914 THEOSOPHY SCHOOL was started. This activity was adopted and implemented by most ULTs as they became established. 1916 "BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY" edited by Mr. Crosbie, was issued. Two new Theosophy Schools started around new ULTs in San Francisco and Berkeley. 1917 - 1918 Mr. Crosbie set most of the Theosophy School songs to music himself. 1917-18 "(Mr. Crosbie's) ... burdens during many years have been enormous. In addition to his other work, he was a frequent speaker at the meetings of the United Lodge; he was constantly at the service of the hundreds of students who sought his wise and benign counsels in their many problems; he attended personally, under no matter what pressures upon his time and energies, to an incessant stream of correspondence from unknown inquirers who came in some unknown ways to learn of him and to seek his kindly advice and suggestion. He never denied his help, but gave freely, without stint or limit." "Worn out in these unselfish labors for the benefit and advantage of his fellow men, burdened with the toll of advancing years, the frail body could no more sustain the increasing demands upon it. He died as he had lived, calm and serene, with no word of complaint during the days of intense suffering that preceded his release. Something of his firm principles and the impersonality of his life and work can be gained from his last published article, printed in the (July 1919 THEOSOPHY :-- "IS THEOSOPHY A PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM OF RELIGION ?"). THY 7-289-90 June 25th 1919 Death of Mr. Crosbie THEOSOPHY , Vol. 7, p. 320 It is valuable to note that H.P.B.'s last article was: "MY BOOKS" published in Lucifer for April 1891. It is a resume evidencing the nature of her writings as the recorded teachings of the Masters of Wisdom. In April 1896 Mr. Judge's last article appeared in the PATH/THEOSOPHY: "H.P.B. WAS NOT DESERTED BY MASTERS"-- it is his statement confirming his belief in the reliability of HPB, the Messenger. Mr. Crosbie's last article: "IS THEOSOPHY A PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM OF RELIGION ?" (Theosophy, July 1919) reiterates the position that Theosophy is not a constantly changing set of ideas, but a consistent and complete body of knowledge to be studied, applied and promulgated as originally presented. [ Mr. Fussell, once one of Mr. Judge's secretaries, and afterwards, secretary to Mrs. Tingley of Point Loma T S wrote some letters containing slanderous statements on Mr. Crosbie's character, after his death. Mr. Garrigues showed these letters to Mrs. Josephine Crosbie. She indignantly repudiated the statements that Mr. Fussell made. She stated that they were false and untrue. She also publicly challenged Mr. Fussell to prove them. He made no response to this. THY 23 390; THY 23 491-2 ] ___________________________ In the August 20th 1919 issue of the O. E. LIBRARY CRITIC, published by Dr. Stokes from Washington, D.C. notes:-- "One cannot help comparing the exaltation of personalities and the self-advertising which is so much in evidence in the official journals of the T.S. with the policy of the magazine THEOSOPHY, in which all the material, editorial or otherwise, which is written by still living persons, is anonymous. For nearly seven years this journal has published admirable original articles and editorials and not once have the names of the writers appeared. The excellent letters written by the United Lodge of Theosophists to inquirers are never signed, except by the name of the Lodge. It now appears for the first time that Robert Crosbie, who recently died, was not only the chief editor of THEOSOPHY, but the author of many of the best articles and letters issued by the Lodge. From the first issue of the journal up to the last issue, announcing his death, not once does the name of Robert Crosbie, or even his initials, appear. Nowhere are we recommended to get his photograph and meditate upon it; nowhere are we regaled with accounts of his movements; nobody tells us how miserable they are because Robert Crosbie has gone to Boston and not telegraphed back from each station; not one line is given to expatiating on his greatness. And herein we see the true theosophical spirit exemplified, the desire to serve without reward other than the privilege of rendering the service...To the work of teaching real Theosophy, Robert Crosbie not only devoted his life, but sacrificed it, seeking neither reputation, honor nor glory, yes, more, deliberately turning his back on them. "To be seen of men," that is a form of personal ambition, "the first curse,--the great tempter of the man who is rising above his fellows." "Kill out ambition," that is the first precept laid down in LIGHT ON THE PATH...." Dr. H. N. Stokes, O.E.L.C. (Aug. 1919, OELC) Again, In the March 1933 issue of the O.E.LIBRARY CRITIC, Dr. Stokes writes: "Aside from the Great Lights of Theosophy, few theosophical writers appeal to me more than Robert Crosbie, founder of the United Lodge of Theosophists, and I rejoice in the occasional quotations from his talks which appear in the U.L.T. magazines. Further, it is always a joy to note when any of his devoted followers of the United Lodge, here, there or anywhere, live up to the spirit of his dictum (Theosophy, Feb. 1920, page 107): "Neither Jesus nor H.P.B. lived and died in order that a book or books might be swallowed wholesale, nor even that men should become disciples, but that all men should become brothers." To this one might add that Robert Crosbie did not live in order that books or pamphlets lauding--and misrepresenting--him should be "swallowed wholesale," but that truth should prevail... ===================== "The magazine Theosophy, which was edited by Robert Crosbie up to the time of his death last July [1919], has just begun publishing a series of his articles, letters and talks. Many are extremely lucid and illuminating, and no theosophical student should miss them, no matter to what society he belongs." Dr. H.N.Stokes (Nov. 1919, OELC) ++ = = = = = = = = = = =++ Following the principles of the ULT DECLARATION neither Mr. Crosbie, nor has any student of the ULT made any public claim to be a "successor," "leader," or "teacher." Each student and inquirer has been carefully put into direct touch with H P B, our teacher through her writings--original and unchanged. Each has been encouraged to study, work for Theosophy, and practice that universal brotherhood which forms the unifying basis of all Nature. Mr. Judge's writings have been selected for study and reproduction because they most faithfully and carefully follow and supplement Mme. Blavatsky's writings and all students are encouraged to prove this for themselves. B I B L I O G R A P H Y Robert Crosbie THE FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER -- Letters and talks by R. Crosbie ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY -- Unedited selections from questions asked and answers given by Robert Crosbie in study classes in the Ocean of Theosophy by Wm. Q. Judge THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT : 1875 - 1925 -- edited by R.C. BECAUSE -- FOR CHILDREN WHO ASK WHY -- short stories illustrating practical Theosophy for children. -- edited by R.C. UNIVERSAL THEOSOPHY -- a reprint of selected talks and letters by Mr. Crosbie culled from The Friendly Philosopher [ 1963 ] Articles on Mr. Crosbie THEIR COLLEAGUE PASSES -- an appreciation of his work in and for ULT and THEOSOPHY magazine THY 7-289 THE GUIDANCE OF ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 26-337 LOYALTY: [ OF ROBERT CROSBIE ] -- THY 19-337 THE RECORD OF ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 25-337 THEOSOPHISTS AND ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 24-337 ROBERT CROSBIE -- THY 21-337 HE KEPT THE LINES UNBROKEN -- THEOS. MVT. 16- 99 FOUNDER OF THE ULT -- THEOS. MVT. 4-113 THE U.L.T. AND ITS FOUNDER -- THEOS. MVT. 14-113 (...) I Hope This May Be Of Some Use To You And Your Friends In Boston. Best wishes, Dallas --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 07:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11858 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 15:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 15:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO marova.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.215) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 15:01:51 -0000 Received: from burta.hst.terra.com.br (burta.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.199]) by marova.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2E811A991F for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:27:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br (tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.13]) by burta.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747B24B78103 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:21:28 -0200 (BRST) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: b9d11c6bd1f229672299c5122330e0b4 Received-SPF: pass (tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.13 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.13; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (morone.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.178]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595224344077 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:21:28 -0200 (BRST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:21:28 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.14.121.76 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: ON ARGUMENTS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=V8MEzOLwjHc6xU9wohC4Vh_4GkO7eoIFIm2hWa28SNN0pWjkBByuq3A X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38184 Friends, See below a few lines' sample from the latest issue of the magazine "Peace Ideas". You can also see it at http://www.info.com.ph/~tspeace/pi-net25.htm . Regards, Carlos. ooooooooooooooo When You Get Into an Argument There are many tested approaches that will help if you find yourself arguing with another person over an issue. Here are three tips from Tom Rusk in his book, The Power of Ethical Persuasion: Listen. This is very important. Let the other person present his or her points without interrupting. See it his/her way. Restate his/her view before you present yours. "People are more likely to be swayed by your logic if they feel you understand them." Don't get personal. If you are talking business, don't bring up his/her bad golf swing to prove his/her lack of judgment. This will only make him/her mad and less willing to concede. Susan Smith Jones, Choose to Live Each Day Fully, Celestial Arts Publishing, P.O. Box 7123, Berkeley, CA 94707, U.S.A. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Dec 01 07:38:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33344 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 15:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 15:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 15:33:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:31:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2006 15:31:00 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:30:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.51 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.31.15 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: To Carl Ek: What is a society & what is propaganda??? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=FqeHhHOg9fSg-FYKbRlohESiUb4YgLpSpmA1DG0zmugGbK-ovHy_zDkV X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38185 What is a society=20 & what is propaganda???=20 To Carl Ek: I am responding in part to your latest posting about the ULT. Carlos Aveline wrote in one of his Oct. postings: -------------------------------------------- The ULT, besides being much smaller than Adyar, is not a Theosophical Society and makes no propaganda of itself. It does not have a corporation status. It is an informal network of students present in 15 countries. So it cannot be compared to the Adyar Theosophical Society, which makes a lot of public propaganda. -------------------------------------------- Now contrary to Mr. Aveline's pronouncement, both the Theosophical=20 Society Adyar and the United Lodge of Theosophist are "societies" in=20 light of the following dictionary definitions: ------------------------------------------ 2 : a voluntary association of individuals for common ends; especially : an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs, or profession 3 a : an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another ------------------------------------------ It is true that the ULT is smaller than Adyar but that doesn't change the fact that they are both societies. And both of them can be considered Theosophical societies. Again Mr. Aveline wants us to believe that the TS Adyar engages in propaganda and the ULT does not. But consider the dictionary definitions of "propaganda": ------------------------------------------------------------- 1 : The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person ------------------------------------------------------------- Although the word "propaganda" can have a negative connotation in some situations, the word can be simply defined as: "the spreading of ideas, information....for the purpose of helping...a cause" Certainly both the ULT and the TS Adyar spread ideas and information through pamphlets, books, magazines, lectures, websites, etc. I have seen ads/announcements in newspapers about the ULT and its lectures and books. The ULT Los Angeles has a website. There are other ULT websites. There are ULT leaflets, lectures, books, magazines, etc. All of these are ways of spreading ideas and information, propagation of information for the purpose of helping the Theosophical cause.... No doubt, since the TS Adyar is larger than the ULT, there is more public dissemination of info by the TS Adyar. Still...both organizations do propaganda. Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Fri Dec 01 10:01:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88179 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2006 17:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2006 17:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO penedo.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.213) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2006 17:54:12 -0000 Received: from bungunia.hst.terra.com.br (bungunia.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.196]) by penedo.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553382016CC for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:24:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from calabona.hst.terra.com.br (calabona.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.5]) by bungunia.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02593C7419D for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:17:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 43169231c0d63ef2e7dcd112f9af3d6c Received-SPF: pass (calabona.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.5; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (bengazi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.176]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by calabona.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B621BD4157 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 15:17:45 -0200 (BRST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 14:17:45 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.14.121.76 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Daniel And the ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=0zdqUiX0euzMg1JH1onSk2NCmqWtcLmXVavL17I5EztKJKxutIPk9Kg X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 38186 Daniel, I have a candid question to you. Does the text below, by P. Johnson, which I don't remember you answering to, explain your interest and your methods of action against the ULT? Regards, Carlos. ooooooo K.Paul Johnson writes: DAVID GREEN'S CRUZADE AGAINST THE ULT Feb. 10, 2006 --- 05:44 AM --- by kpauljohnson Folks, Now that the feud between ULT members and Daniel Caldwell has entered theos-talk as a two-way street (rather than Daniel just posting his side of things) I feel obliged to share some background material that will help explain the dynamics. As might be expected, I disagree entirely with the objections that have been made to the HPB Letters volume and Daniel's compilation. TPH books should be more in line with scholarly standards, not less. Suppressing damaging information out of spiritual loyalty is something that TPH has done too much, not too little. Nonetheless, whether or not David Green is an independent entity, Daniel has been on an anti- ULT crusade for a long time, and having been on the receiving end of a similar crusade it looks like it is falling to me to point out what has been happening: David Green and theos-talk Posting on theos-talk from 1998 through 2000, "David Green" appeared obsessed with attacking the United Lodge of Theosophists. For example, in one month alone, March 1999, he contributed more than 20 posts to theos-talk critical of the ULT, and a dozen more the following month. A year later in April 2000 he was still obsessed, contributing a dozen more such posts. His website includes twenty articles he authored which are critical of Robert Crosbie, and another four critical of William Q. Judge and Katherine Tingley: http://members.tripod.com/davidgreen_2/ All remaining articles there were written by others. No one in theos- talk (with one exception) reports having met David Green in person, which is unusual in the small world of Theosophical history research. But he is clearly associated with Daniel Caldwell; claiming to be an Australian posting from Sydney, "Green" was in fact posting from the same Tucson ISP as Caldwell. A "see also" link to Caldwell's Blavatsky Archives website appears prominently at the top of Green's site. The two share a literary style that includes relentless rhetorical questions and extensive quotations from primary sources. They share a narrow set of obsessions, mostly attacking Theosophical and related organizations other than the Adyar TS. In addition to literary style and subject focus, Green and Caldwell created websites that are remarkably similar in appearance, which can be judged by comparing them; here is Caldwell's: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/ Google shows 82 appearances of the email address davidgreen@hotmail.com, every one of them in posts on Theosophical subjects within a period of about three years. One clear difference between Green and Caldwell, however, is that Green was regularly and overtly hostile to individual Theosophists in the ULT; e.g. these remarks to and about Dallas Ten Broeck and Jerome Wheeler: http://www.theos-talk.com/archives/200004/tt00073.html http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200005/tt00232.html Another notable feature of Green's activity was his complete disdain for reformist critics of the Adyar TS, who organized in the late 90s as the Association of Concerned Theosophists. He presented himself as Australian, residing in Sydney, wrote in a peculiar style in which articles were largely absent, and always called HPB "Mrs. Blavatsky." In general, he was contemptuously dismissive in tone towards almost everyone, as in this post to Govert Schuller: http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/199808/tt00042.html His hostility to the ULT even extended to Dr. James Santucci, accused of excessive deference to ULT sensibilities, e.g.: http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/199905/tt00066.html Occasionally a ULT member noticed something awry with Green, and commented on it, e.g. Peter Merriott: http://www.theos-talk.com/archives/199902/tt00125.html But no one ever seemed to connect the dots and suspect that Green