From samblo@cs.com Thu Jun 01 01:49:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70883 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 08:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 08:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 08:49:10 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id r.43b.2a6fdac (63000) for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 04:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43b.2a6fdac.31b003fa@cs.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 04:48:58 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.206 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA & THE ANDES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33850 Carlos, Here are two "hotlinks" for google search listings for: Toro Muerto and Marcahausi Plateau from these tow Google listing you will find much information about the most interesting archeological and Anthropological sites toro muerto - Google Search marcahuasi plateau - Google Search LOCATION OF TORO MUERTO, PERU DETAIL PHOTO OF TORO MUERTO, PERU Toro Muerto Petroglyphs enjoy, John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Thu Jun 01 05:02:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83436 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 12:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 12:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.90) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 12:02:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:01:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:01:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 12:00:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <007401c6850f$9786df00$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.73.160.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.218.166 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Meaning of the double triangle.(solomon 's seal or not) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=PAnBlGs477heclrn2BVdKTrSW-tnVlflJm3DqBBAa53WI3eaSAlZSUlsPA6gIaw X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33851 Dear Dallis, Thanks for your work,I shall see the Mahatma's for that too. I use the SD from TPH,Wheaton-Adyar-London large octavos;illustrated=20 with rare portraits; clothbound; fully indexed.1978/79 printed.in 3=20 editions. I literary typed over what is standing on page 591 see under your writing: -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck"=20 wrote: > > 5/31/2006 4:59 PM >=20 > Re: Meaning of the double triangle >=20 > Dear Christinalee Stemaker: >=20 > You wrote: "Can anyone give the answer to this: why HPB (SD 591) wrote the > double triangle wrongly called "Solomons seal", >=20 > What edition of the SECRET DOCTRINE do you use?. There is in Vol.=20 II > 591[original 1888 SECRET DOCTRINE] some mention of relevant=20 symbology and > meaning. But not the wording you use.=20=20 Dallis, strange enough she used the words in my book: After she=20 explain the Indian Trimurti:=20 ***=20 For even in the exoteric rendering, the lower triangle with the apex=20 downward is the symbol of Vishnu, the god of the moist principle and=20 water ( N=E2r=E2-Yana) or the moving principle in water(N=E2r=E2); while th= e=20 triangle with its apex upward, is Shiva, the principle of Fire,=20 symbolized by the triple flame in his hand. It is these two interlacted triangles- wrongle called "Solomons seal" which also form the emblem of our Society. see farther page=20 592.which allinea I typed over before. *** By this I don't understand why she mentioned this, for the solomons=20 seal have more meanings, not only the enneagram with 3 equalized=20 triangles in the circle, also there is a sign with this two=20 triangles. >=20 > I think we all use and refer to the ORIGINAL 1888 Edition. *** Which I have. Times ago you also could not find the SOLAR and LUNAR ,for MANAS=20 is double. Which she give explanation on page 495/6:Varius names for=20 initiations: =20=20 Lunar is lower manas(animal soul), and solar is the higher manas (human soul),which is towards Buddhi. >=20 > Here are a few references I have found: >=20 > ----------------------------------------------- >=20 > Heptachord - Lyre of Apollo >=20 > -------------------------------------------------- >=20 > MAHATMA LETTERS [Barker], pp. 345-6 explains: >=20 > "Does your B.T.S. know the meaning of the white and black=20 interlaced > triangles, of the Parent Society's seal that it has also adopted?=20 Shall I > explain? =96=20 >=20 > the double triangle viewed by the Jewish Kabalists as Solomon's=20 Seal, is, as > many of you doubtless know the Sri-antara of the archaic Aryan=20 Temple, the > "mystery of Mysteries," a geometrical synthesis of the whole occult > doctrine.=20 >=20 > The two interlaced triangles are the Buddhangums of Creation. They=20 contain > the "squaring of the circle," the "philosophical stone," the great=20 problems > of Life and Death, and -- the Mystery of Evil.=20 >=20 > The chela who can explain this sign from every one of its aspects - - is > virtually an adept.=20 >=20 > How is it then that the only one among you, who has come so near to > unravelling the mystery is also the only one who got none of her=20 ideas from > books? Unconsciously she gives out -- to him who has the key --=20 the first > syllable of the Ineffable name!=20 >=20 > Of course you know that the double-triangle -- the Satkiri Chakram=20 of Vishnu > -- or the six-pointed star, is the perfect seven. In all the old=20 Sanskrit > works -- Vedic and Tantrik -- you find the number 6 mentioned more=20 often > than the 7 -- this last figure, the central point being implied,=20 for it is > the germ of the six and their matrix.=20 >=20 > It is then thus . . . [At this point in the original there is a=20 rough > drawing of the interlaced triangles inscribed in a circle. --=20 ED.] -- the > central point standing for seventh, and the circle, the Mahakasha - - endless > space -- for the seventh Universal Principle.=20 >=20 > In one sense, both are viewed as Avalokitesvara, for they are=20 respectively > the Macrocosm and the microcosm.=20 >=20 > The interlaced triangles -- the upper pointing one -- is Wisdom=20 concealed, > and the downward pointing one -- Wisdom revealed (in the=20 phenomenal world).=20 >=20 > The circle indicates the bounding, circumscribing quality of the=20 All, the > Universal Principle which, from any given point expands so as to=20 embrace all > things, while embodying the potentiality of every action in the=20 Cosmos.=20 >=20 > As the point then is the centre round which the circle is traced -- they are > identical and one, and though from the standpoint of Maya and=20 Avidya -- > (illusion and ignorance) -- one is separated from the other by the > manifested triangle, the 3 sides of which represent the three=20 gunas -- > finite attributes.=20 >=20 > In symbology the central point is Jivatma (the 7th principle), and=20 hence > Avalokitesvara, the Kwan-Shai-yin, the manifested "Voice" (or=20 Logos), the > germ point of manifested activity; -- hence -- in the phraseology=20 of the > Christian Kabalists "the Son of the Father and Mother," and=20 agreeably to > ours -- "the Self manifested in Self -- Yih-sin, the "one form of > existence," the child of Dharmakaya (the universally diffused=20 Essence), both > male and female.=20 >=20 > Parabrahm or "Adi-Buddha" while acting through that germ point=20 outwardly as > an active force, reacts from the circumference inwardly as the=20 Supreme but > latent Potency.=20 >=20 > The double triangles symbolize the Great Passive and the Great=20 Active; the > male and female; Purusha and Prakriti.=20 >=20 > Each triangle is a Trinity because presenting a triple aspect.=20 >=20 > The white represents in its straight lines: Gnanam -- (Knowledge);=20 Gnata -- > (the Knower); and Gnayam -- (that which is known). The black-form,=20 colour, > and substance, also the creative, preservative, and destructive=20 forces and > are mutually correlating, etc., etc.=20 >=20 > Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous=20 lucidity of > that remarkable seeress [Mrs. Kingsford], who ignorant of Sanskrit=20 or Pali, > and thus shut out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen=20 a great > light shining from behind the dark bills of exoteric religions.=20 How, think > you, did the "Writers of the Perfect Way" come to know that Adonai=20 was the > Son and not the Father; or that the third Person of the Christian=20 Trinity is > -- female? Verily, they lay in that work several times their hands=20 upon the > keystone of Occultism. Only does the lady -- who persists using=20 without an > explanation the misleading term "God" in her writings -- know how=20 nearly she > comes up to our doctrine when saying: -- "Having for Father,=20 Spirit which is > Life (the endless Circle or Parabrahm) and for Mother the Great=20 Deep, which > is Substance (Prakriti in its undifferentiated condition) -- Adonai > possesses the potency of both and wields the dual powers of all=20 things."=20 >=20 > We would say triple, but in the sense as given this will do.=20 >=20 > Pythagoras had a reason for never using the finite, useless=20 figure -- 2, and > for altogether discarding it.=20 >=20 > The ONE, can, when manifesting, become only 3.=20 >=20 > The unmanifested when a simple duality remains passive and=20 concealed. The > dual monad (the 7th and 6th principles) has, in order to manifest=20 itself as > a Logos, the "Kwan-shai-yin" to first become a triad (7th, 6th and=20 half of > the 5th); then, on the bosom of the "Great Deep" attracting within=20 itself > the One Circle -- form out of it the perfect Square,=20 thus "squaring the > circle" -- the greatest of all the mysteries, friend -- and=20 inscribing > within the latter the -- WORD (the Ineffable name) -- otherwise=20 the duality > could never tarry as such, and would have to be reabsorbed into=20 the ONE.=20 >=20 > The "Deep" is Space -- both male and female. "Purush (as Brahma)=20 breathes in > the Eternity: when 'he' in-breathes -- Prakriti (as manifested=20 Substance) > disappears in his bosom; when 'he' out-breathes she reappears as=20 Maya," says > the Sloka. The One reality is Mulaprakriti (undifferentiated=20 Substance) -- > the "Rootless root," the. . . But we have to stop, lest there=20 should remain > but little to tell for your own intuitions.=20 >=20 > Well may the Geometer of the R.S. not know that the apparent=20 absurdity of > attempting to square the circle covers a mystery ineffable. It=20 would hardly > be found among the foundation stones of Mr. Roden Noel's=20 speculations upon > the "pneumatical body . . . of our Lord," nor among the debris of=20 Mr. > Farmer's "A New Basis of Belief in Immortality"; and to many such > metaphysical minds it would be worse than useless to divulge the=20 fact, that=20 >=20 > the Unmanifested Circle -- the Father, or Absolute Life -- is non- existent > outside the Triangle and Perfect Square, and -- is only manifested=20 in the > Son; and that it is when, reversing the action and returning to=20 its absolute > state of Unity, and the square expands once more into the Circle -- that > "the Son returns to the bosom of the Father."=20 >=20 > There it remains until called back by his Mother -- the "Great=20 Deep," to > remanifest as a triad -- the Son partaking at once, of the Essence=20 of the > Father, and of that of the Mother -- the active Substance,=20 Prakriti in its > differentiated condition.=20 >=20 > "My Mother -- (Sophia -- the manifested Wisdom) took me" -- says=20 Jesus in a > Gnostic treatise; and he asks his disciples to tarry till he=20 comes. . . . > The true "Word" may only be found by tracing the mystery of the=20 passage > inward and outward of the Eternal Life, through the states=20 typified in these > three geometric figures.=20 >=20 > The criticism of "A Student of Occultism" (whose wits are=20 sharpened by the > mountain air of his home) and the answer of "S.T.K. . . . Chary"=20 (June > Theosophist) upon a part of your annular and circular expositions=20 need not > annoy or disturb in any way your philosophic calm.=20 >=20 > As our Pondicherry chela significantly says, neither you nor any=20 other man > across the threshold has had or ever will have the "complete=20 theory" of > Evolution taught him; or get it unless he guesses it for himself.=20 >=20 > If anyone can unravel it from such tangled threads as are given=20 him, very > well; and a fine proof it would indeed be of his or her spiritual=20 insight. > Some -- have come very near it. But yet there is always with the=20 best of > them just enough error, -- colouring and misconception; the shadow=20 of Manas > projecting across the field of Buddhi -- to prove the eternal law=20 that only > the unshackled Spirit shall see the things of the Spirit without a=20 veil.=20 >=20 > No untaught amateur could ever rival the proficient in this branch=20 of > research; yet the world's real Revelators have been few, and its > pseudo-Saviours legion; and fortunate it is if their half-glimpses=20 of the > light are not, like Islam, enforced at the sword's point, or like=20 Christian > Theology, amid blazing faggots and in torture chambers.=20 >=20 > Your Fragments contain some -- still very few errors, due solely=20 to your two > preceptors of Adyar, one of whom would not, and the other could=20 not tell you > all. The rest could not be called mistakes -- rather incomplete > explanations. These are due, partly to your own imperfect=20 education in your > last theme -- I mean the ever-threatening obscurations -- partly=20 to the poor > vehicles of language at our disposal, and in part again, to the=20 reserve > imposed upon us by rule. Yet, all things considered, they are few=20 and > trivial; while as to those noticed by "A Student, etc." (the=20 Marcus Aurelius > of Simla) in your No. VII, it will be pleasant for you to know=20 that every > one of them, however now seeming to you contradictory, can (and if=20 it should > seem necessary shall) be easily reconciled with facts.=20 >=20 > The trouble is that (a) you cannot be given the real figures and=20 difference > in the Rounds, and (b) that you do not open doors enough for=20 explorers.=20 >=20 > The bright Luminary of the B.T.S. and the Intelligences that=20 surround her > (embodied I mean) may help you to see the flaws: at all events=20 Try. "Nothing > was ever lost by trying."=20 >=20 > You share with all beginners the tendency to draw too absolutely=20 strong > inferences from partly caught hints, and to dogmatize thereupon as=20 though > the last word had been spoken. You will correct this in due time.=20 You may > misunderstand us, are more than likely to do so, for our language=20 must > always be more or less that of parable and suggestion, when=20 treading upon > forbidden ground; we have our own peculiar modes of expression and=20 what lies > behind the fence of words is even more important than what you=20 read. But > still -- TRY.=20 >=20 > Perhaps if Mr. S. Moses could know just what was meant by what was=20 said to > him, and about his Intelligences, he would find all strictly true.=20 As he is > a man of interior growth, his day may come and his reconciliation=20 with "the > Occultists" be complete. Who knows?=20 >=20 > Meanwhile, I shall, with your permission, close this first volume.=20 >=20 >=20=09 > K. H.=20 >=20 > {Esoteric Buddhism was published June 11.}=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------=20 =09 >=20 >=20 > See TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE: p. 106 [Blavatsky:=20=20 COLLECTED > WORKS Vol. X ] >=20 > STANZA III. (continued).=20 >=20 > Sloka (2). THE VIBRATION SWEEPS ALONG, TOUCHING WITH ITS SWIFT WING > (simultaneously) THE WHOLE UNIVERSE; AND THE GERM THAT DWELLETH IN=20 DARKNESS: > THE DARKNESS THAT BREATHES (moves) OVER THE SLUMBERING WATERS OF=20 LIFE.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. How are we to understand the expression that the vibration=20 touches the > whole universe and also the germ?=20 >=20 > A. First of all the terms used must be defined as far as possible,=20 for the > language used is purely figurative. The Universe does not mean the=20 Kosmos or > world of forms but the formless space, the future vehicle of the=20 Universe > which will be manifested. This space is synonymous with=20 the "waters of > space," with (to us) eternal darkness, in fact with Parabrahm. In=20 short the > whole Sloka refers to the "period" before there was any=20 manifestation > whatever. In the same way the Germ=97the Germ is eternal, the=20 undifferentiated > atoms of future matter=97- is one with space, as infinite as it is > indestructible, and as eternal as space itself. Similarly=20 with "vibration," > which corresponds with the Point, the unmanifested Logos.=20 >=20 > It is necessary to add one important explanation. In using=20 figurative > language, as has been done in the Secret Doctrine, analogies and=20 comparisons > are very frequent. Darkness for instance, as a rule, applies only=20 to the > unknown totality, or, Absoluteness. Contrasted with eternal=20 darkness the > first Logos is certainly, Light; contrasted with the second or=20 third, the > manifested Logoi, the first is Darkness, and the others are Light. >=20 >=20 > Sloka (3). DARKNESS RADIATES LIGHT, AND LIGHT DROPS ONE SOLITARY=20 RAY INTO > THE WATERS, THE MOTHER-DEEP. THE RAY SHOOTS THROUGH THE VIRGIN=20 EGG; THE RAY > CAUSES THE ETERNAL EGG TO THRILL, AND DROP THE NON-ETERNAL=20 (periodical) > GERM, WHICH CONDENSES INTO THE WORLD-EGG.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. Why is Light said to drop one solitary ray into the waters and=20 how is > this ray represented in connection with the Triangle?=20 >=20 > A. However many the Rays may appear to be on this plane, when=20 brought back > to their original source they will finally be resolved into a=20 unity, like > the seven prismatic colors which all proceed from, and are=20 resolved into the > one white ray. Thus too, this one solitary Ray expands into the=20 seven rays > (and their innumerable sub-divisions) on the plane of illusion=20 only. It is > represented in connection with the Triangle because the Triangle=20 is the > first perfect geometrical figure. As stated by Pythagoras, and=20 also in the > Stanza, the Ray (the Pythagorean Monad) descending from "no-place"=20 (Aloka), > shoots like a falling star through the planes of non-being into=20 the first > world of being, and gives birth to Number One; then branching off,=20 to the > right, it produces Number Two; turning again to form the base-line=20 it begets > Number Three, and thence ascending again to Number One, it finally > disappears therefrom into the realms of non-being as Pythagoras=20 shows.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. Why should Pythagorean teachings be found in old Hindu=20 philosophies?=20 >=20 > A. Pythagoras derived this teaching from India and in the old=20 books we find > him spoken of as the Yavanacharya or Greek Teacher. Thus we see=20 that the > Triangle is the first differentiation, its sides however all being=20 described > by the one Ray.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. What is really meant by the term "planes of non-being"? >=20 > A. In using the term "planes of non-being" it is necessary to=20 remember that > these planes are only to us spheres of non-being, but those of=20 being and > matter to higher intelligences than ourselves. The highest Dhyan- Chohans of > the Solar System can have no conception of that which exists in=20 higher > systems, i.e., on the second "septenary" Kosmic plane, which to=20 the Beings > of the ever invisible Universe is entirely subjective.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sloka (4). (Then) THE THREE (Triangle) FALL INTO THE FOUR=20 (Quaternary). THE > RADIANT ESSENCE BECOMES SEVEN INSIDE, SEVEN OUTSIDE. THE LUMINOUS=20 EGG > (Hiranyagarbha), WHICH IN ITSELF IS THREE (the triple hypostases=20 of Brahma, > or Vishnu, the three Avasthas) CURDLES AND SPREADS IN MILK WHITE=20 CURDS > THROUGHOUT THE DEPTHS OF MOTHER, THE ROOT THAT GROWS IN THE OCEAN=20 OF LIFE.=20 >=20 > Q. Is the Radiant Essence the same as the luminous Egg? What is=20 the Root > that grows in the ocean of life?=20 >=20 > A. The radiant essence, luminous egg or Golden Egg of Brahma, or=20 again, > Hiranyagarbha, are identical. The Root that grows in the ocean of=20 life is > the potentiality that transforms into objective differentiated=20 matter the > universal, subjective, ubiquitous but homogeneous germ, or the=20 eternal > essence which contains the potency of abstract nature. The Ocean=20 of Life is, > according to a term of the Vedanta philosophy=97if I mistake not=97 the "One > Life," Paramatma, when the transcendental supreme Soul is meant;=20 and > Jivatma, when we speak of the physical and animal "breath of life"=20 or, so to > speak, the differentiated soul, that life in short, which gives=20 being to the > atom and the universe, the molecule and the man, the animal,=20 plant, and > mineral.=20 >=20 > "The Radiant Essence curdled and spread through the depths of=20 Space." From > an astronomical point of view this is easy of explanation: it is=20 the Milky > Way, the world-stuff, or primordial matter in its first form. >=20 >=20 > Q. Is the Radiant Essence, Milky Way, or world-stuff, resolvable=20 into atoms, > or is it non-atomic?=20 >=20 > A. In its precosmic state it is of course, non-atomic, if by atoms=20 you mean > molecules; for the hypothetical atom, a mere mathematical point,=20 is not > material or applicable to matter, nor even to substance.=20 >=20 > The real atom does not exist on the material plane. The definition=20 of a > point as having position, must not, in Occultism, be taken in the=20 ordinary > sense of location; as the real atom is beyond space and time. The=20 word > molecular is really applicable to our globe and its plane, only:=20 once inside > of it, even on the other globes of our planetary chain, matter is=20 in quite > another condition, and non-molecular.=20 >=20 > The atom is in its eternal state, invisible even to the eye of an=20 Archangel; > and becomes visible to the latter only periodically, during the=20 life cycle. > The particle, or molecule, is not, but exists periodically, and is=20 therefore > regarded as an illusion.=20 >=20 > The world-stuff informs itself through various planes and cannot=20 be said to > be resolved into stars or to have become molecular until it=20 reaches the > plane of being of the visible or objective Universe.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. Can ether be said to be molecular in Occultism?=20 >=20 > A. It entirely depends upon what is meant by the term. In its=20 lowest strata, > where it merges with the astral light, it may be called molecular=20 on its own > plane; but not for us. But the ether of which science has a=20 suspicion, is > the grossest manifestation of Akasa, though on our plane, for us=20 mortals, it > is the seventh principle of the astral light, and three degrees=20 higher than > "radiant matter." When it penetrates, or informs something, it may=20 be > molecular because it takes on the form of the latter, and its=20 atoms inform > the particles of that "something." We may perhaps call=20 matter "crystallized > ether." >=20 >=20 > Q. But what is an atom, in fact?=20 >=20 > A. An atom may be compared to (and is for the Occultist) the=20 seventh > principle of a body or rather of a molecule. The physical or=20 chemical > molecule is composed of an infinity of finer molecules and these=20 in their > turn of innumerable and still finer molecules.=20 >=20 > Take for instance a molecule of iron and so resolve it that it=20 becomes > non-molecular; it is then, at once transformed into one of its=20 seven > principles, viz., its astral body; the seventh of these is the=20 atom. The > analogy between a molecule of iron, before it is broken up, and=20 this same > molecule after resolution, is the same as that between a physical=20 body > before and after death. The principles remain minus the body. Of=20 course this > is occult alchemy, not modern chemistry.=20 >=20 > Q. What is the meaning of the allegorical "churning of the ocean,"=20 and "cow > of plenty" of the Hindus, and what correspondence is there between=20 them and > the "war in heaven"?=20 >=20 > A. A process which begins in the state of "non-being," and ends=20 with the > close of Maha-Pralaya, can hardly be given in a few words or even=20 volumes. > It is simply an allegorical representation of the unseen and=20 unknown > primeval intelligences, the atoms of occult science, Brahma=20 himself being > called Anu or the Atom, fashioning and differentiating the=20 shoreless ocean > of the primordial radiant essence.=20 >=20 > The relation and correspondence between the "churning of the=20 ocean" and the > "war in heaven" is a very long and abstruse subject to handle. To=20 give it in > its lowest symbolical aspect, this "war in heaven" is going on=20 eternally. > Differentiation is contrast, the equilibrium of contraries: and so=20 long as > this exists there will be "war" or fighting.=20 >=20 > There are, of course, different stages and aspects of this war:=20 such for > instance as the astronomical and physical.=20 >=20 > For everyone and everything that is born in a Manvantara, there=20 is "war in > heaven" and also on the earth: for the fourteen Root and Seed- Manus who > preside over our Manvantaric cycle, and for the countless Forces,=20 human or > otherwise, that proceed from them.=20 >=20 > There is a perpetual struggle of adjustment, for everything tends=20 to > harmonize and equilibrate; in fact it must do so before it can=20 assume any > shape. The elements of which we are formed, the particles of our=20 bodies, are > in a continual war, one crowding out the other and changing with=20 every > moment.=20 >=20 > At the "Churning of the Ocean" by the gods, the Nagas came and=20 some stole of > the Amrita=97the water of Immortality,=97and thence arose war between=20 the gods > and the Asuras, the no-gods, and the gods were worsted. This=20 refers to the > formation of the Universe and the differentiation of the=20 primordial primeval > matter. But you must remember, that this is only the cosmogonical=20 aspect=97one > out of the seven meanings. The war in heaven had also immediate=20 reference to > the evolution of the intellectual principle in mankind. This is the > metaphysical key. ... >=20 >=20 > Q. In what sense can numbers be called Entities?=20 >=20 > A. When intelligent Entities are meant; when they are *(Vol. I.,=20 p. 66.) > regarded simply as digits they are, of course, not Entities but=20 symbolical > signs.=20 >=20 > Q. Why is the radiant essence said to become seven inside and=20 seven outside? >=20 >=20 > A. Because it has seven principles on the plane of the manifested=20 and seven > on that of the unmanifested. Always argue on analogy and apply the=20 old > occult axiom "As above so below."=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. But are the planes of "non-being" also Septenary?=20 >=20 > A. Most undeniably. That which in the Secret Doctrine is referred=20 to as the > unmanifested planes, are unmanifested or planes of non-being only=20 from the > point of view of the finite intellect; to higher intelligences=20 they would be > manifested planes and so on to infinity, analogy always holding=20 good. >=20 >=20=09=09=09 > THE ROOT REMAINS, THE LIGHT REMAINS, THE CURDS REMAIN, > AND STILL OEAOHOO IS ONE.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. What is meant by saying that these remain?=20 >=20 > A. It means simply that whatever the plurality of manifestation=20 may be, > still it is all one. In other words these are all different=20 aspects of the > one element; it does not mean that they remain without=20 differentiation.=20 >=20 > "The curds are the first differentiation, and probably refer also=20 to that > cosmic matter which is supposed to be the origin of the 'Milky=20 Way'=97the > matter we know. This 'matter,' which, according to the revelation=20 received > from the primeval Dhyani-Buddhas, is, during the periodical sleep=20 of the > Universe, of the ultimate tenuity conceivable to the eye of the=20 perfect > Bodhisatva=97this matter, radical and cool, becomes, at the first=20 reawakening > of cosmic motion, scattered through Space; appearing, when seen=20 from the > Earth, in clusters and lumps, like curds in thin milk. These are=20 the seeds > of the future worlds, the 'Star-stuff'."* >=20 >=20 > Q. Is it to be supposed that the Milky Way is composed of matter=20 in a state > of differentiation other than that with which we are acquainted?=20 >=20 > A. I thoroughly believe so. It is the store-house of the materials=20 from > which the stars, planets and other celestial bodies are produced.=20 Matter in > this state does not exist on earth; but that which is already=20 differentiated > and found on earth is also found on other planets and vice-versa.=20 * (Vol.I., > p. 69.)=20 >=20 > But, as I understand, before reaching the planets from its=20 condition in the > Milky Way matter has first to pass through many stages of=20 differentiation. > The matter, for instance, within the Solar system is in an entirely > different state from that which is outside or beyond the system.=20 > [ S D I 142- ] >=20 >=20 > Q. Is there a difference between the Nebulae and the Milky Way?=20 >=20 > A. The same, I should say, that there is between a highway road=20 and the > stones and mud upon that road. There must be, of course, a=20 difference > between the matter of the Milky Way and that of the various=20 Nebulae, and > these again must differ among themselves. But in all your=20 scientific > calculations and measurements it is necessary to consider that the=20 light by > which the objects are seen is a reflected light, and the optical=20 illusion > caused by the atmosphere of the earth renders it impossible that > calculations of distances, etc., should be absolutely correct, in=20 addition > to the fact that it entirely alters observations of the matter of=20 which the > celestial bodies are composed, as it is liable to impose upon us a > constitution similar to that of the earth. This is, at any rate,=20 what the > MASTERS teach us. .. >=20 > Fire is the father of light, light the parent of heat and air=20 (vital air). > If the absolute deity can be referred to as Darkness or the Dark=20 Fire, the > light, its first progeny, is truly the first self-conscious god.=20 For what is > light in its primordial root but the world-illuminating and life- giving > deity?=20 >=20 > Light is that, which from an abstraction has become a reality. No=20 one has > ever seen real or primordial light; what we see is only its broken=20 rays or > reflections, which become denser and less luminous as they descend=20 into form > and matter.=20 >=20 > Fire, therefore, is a term which comprehends ALL. Fire is the=20 invisible > deity, "the Father," and the manifesting light is God "the Son,"=20 and also > the Sun. Fire=97in the occult sense=97is =E6ther, and =E6ther is born of= =20 motion, and > motion is the eternal dark, invisible Fire.=20 >=20 > Light sets in motion and controls all in nature, from that highest > primordial =E6ther down to the tiniest molecule in Space. MOTION is=20 eternal > per se, and in the manifested Kosmos it is the Alpha and Omega of=20 that which > is called electricity, galvanism, magnetism, sensation=97moral and > physical=97thought, and even life, on this plane. Thus fire, on our=20 plane, is > simply the manifestation of motion, or Life.=20 >=20 > All cosmic phenomena were referred to by the Rosicrucians=20 as "animated > geometry." Every polar function is only a repetition of primeval=20 polarity, > said the Fire-Philosophers. For motion begets heat, and =E6ther in=20 motion is > heat. When it slackens its motion, then cold is generated,=20 for "cold is > =E6ther, in a latent condition."=20 >=20 > Thus the principal states of nature are three positive and three=20 negative, > synthesized by the primeval light. The three negative states are=20 (1) > Darkness; (2) Cold; (3) Vacuum or Voidness.=20 >=20 > The three positive are (1) Light (on our plane); (2) Heat; (3) All=20 nature.=20 >=20 > Thus Fire may be called the unity of the Universe. Pure cosmic fire > (without, so to speak, fuel) is Deity in its universality; for=20 cosmic fire, > or heat which it calls forth, is every atom of matter in=20 manifested nature. > There is not a thing or a particle in the Universe which does not=20 contain in > it latent fire.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. Fire, then, may be regarded as the first Element?=20 >=20 > A. When we say that fire is the first of the Elements, it is the=20 first only > in the visible universe, the fire that we commonly know. Even on=20 the highest > plane of our universe, the plane of Globe A or G, fire is in one=20 respect > only the fourth.=20 >=20 > For the Occultist, the Rosecroix of the Middle Ages, and even the=20 mediaeval > Kabalists, said that to our human perception and even to that of=20 the highest > "angels," the universal Deity is darkness, and from this Darkness=20 issues the > Logos in the following aspects, (1) Weight (Chaos which becomes=20 =E6ther in its > primordial state); (2) Light; (3) Heat; (4) Fire. >=20 > [Corporeal substance belongs to the fifth division of the seventh=20 Principle > of the Mother substance, and is, therefore, four degrees higher=20 than the > solar reflected substance. As there are seven Dhatu (principle=20 substances > in the human body) so there are seven Forces in Man and in all=20 Nature." > ( S D I, 289-290) and Kama-Rupa Of Akasa I 527fn; ) ] >=20=20 > Q. In what relation does the Sun, the highest form of Fire we can=20 recognize, > stand to Fire as you have explained it?=20 >=20 > A. The Sun, as on our plane, is not even "Solar" fire. The Sun, we=20 see, > gives nothing of itself, because it is a reflection; a bundle of > electro-magnetic forces, one of the countless milliards of "Knots=20 of Fohat." > Fohat is called the "Thread of primeval Light," the "Ball of=20 thread" of > Ariadne, indeed, in this labyrinth of chaotic matter. This thread=20 runs > through the seven planes tying itself into knots. Every plane being > septenary, there are thus forty-nine mystical and physical forces,=20 larger > knots forming stars, suns and systems, the smaller planets, and so=20 on.=20 >=20 >=20 > Q. In what respect is the Sun an illusion?=20 >=20 > A. The electro-magnetic knot of our Sun is neither tangible nor=20 dimensional, > nor even as molecular as the electricity we know. The Sun absorbs, > "psychizes" and vampirizes its subjects within its system. Further=20 than this > it gives out nothing of itself. It is an absurdity, therefore, to=20 say that > the solar fires are being consumed and gradually extinguished. The=20 Sun has > but one distinct function; it gives the impulse of life to all=20 that breathes > and lives under its light. The sun is the throbbing heart of the=20 system; > each throb being an impulse. But this heart is invisible: no=20 astronomer will > ever see it. That which is concealed in this heart and that which=20 we feel > and see, its apparent flame and fires, to use a simile, are the=20 nerves > governing the muscles of the solar system, and nerves, moreover,=20 outside of > the body. This impulse is not mechanical but a purely spiritual,=20 nervous > impulse. "=09=09 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------- >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas >=20=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: christinaleestemaker > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 11:10 AM > Subject: Meaning of the double triangle. >=20 > Dear All; >=20 > Can anyone give the answer to this: >=20 > why HPB (SD 591)wrote the double triangle wrongly=20 called "Solomons seal", >=20 > snip > From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Thu Jun 01 05:52:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60133 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 12:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 12:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 12:30:56 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:29:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:29:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 12:29:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060601015828.1275.qmail@web52111.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.218.166 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA and INTI Venus = uppersun. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=Grx2YX8G-jA0s7nC10-S15yzbvWZkMU-0CpOYAVucUb_E5EYVbS0CybRFJlSjvc X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33852 and Venus is behind our sun, the great livinggiving deity from which=20 our sun get 1/3 of the venus radiance. Christina. -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Carlos, what do you mean by Viracocha is the inner aspect of the=20 Sun. What exactly, in your words, is the inner aspect of the Sun?=20=20 What in your words is a solar deity? >=20 > Cass >=20 > carlosaveline wrote: Friends,=20 >=20 > Inti is the Sun.=20 >=20 > Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun.=20=20=20 >=20 > A solar deity in the Andean Tradition.=20=20=20 >=20 >=20 > Carlos.=20 >=20 > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > C=EF=BF=BDpia: >=20 > Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 07:02:29 +0200 >=20 > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND VIRACHOCHA >=20 > > That is indeed CURIOUS, Cass. > >=20 > > Viracocha, the white, beared man: > > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9054/viraco.html > >=20 > > The more if you read with the Old High German key: > > vera cota =3D the true god. > >=20 > > It will be more clear if you use the sentence=20 > > before your quote as a key. > >=20 > > OHG Quez al coto =3D all knowing god. > >=20 > > Quezalcoto/Viracocha/Verakotscha/Wotan/Vatan is=20 > > the same OHG deitic creation emanation. > >=20 > > Bla vat sky =3D the angelic messenger knew this and=20 > > was the creator of a new age. > >=20 > > It is stated in the Book of Dzyan. > >=20 > > Dzyan is the=20 > > Teutan/teut-ahn/teut- anu/teut/teot/deus/teotl/theos/thot/zeus/zion,=20 > > the highest god of the old Germans in the=20 > > Mecklenburg area. > >=20 > > Frank > >=20 > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Cass Silva"=20 > > To:=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:16 AM > > Subject: Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND=20 > > VIRACHOCHA > >=20 > >=20 > > You might like to educate me Carlos. Vishnu,=20 > > Dagon (Logos or Parabrahman). "It is curious that=20 > > Viracocha, the Supreme Being in Peru, means,=20 > > literally translated, "foam of the sea." IUP259 > > Cass > >=20 > > carlosaveline wrote:=20 > > Cass, > >=20 > > You know nothing about my library. > >=20 > > Try discuss Virachocha and you will see. > >=20 > > Carlos. > >=20 > >=20 > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > >=20 > > Data:Mon, 29 May 2006 21:58:00 -0700 (PDT) > >=20 > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS and the NOUS > >=20 > > > Carlos, > > > With respect, I am convinced that you spent your=20 > > > past lifetime at the feet of Socrates as no=20 > > > amount of evidence will budge you. So be it. > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > carlosaveline wrote: Cass, > > > > > > NOUS is the higher self, and Socrates's Daimon=20 > > > was basically his own NOUS. > > > > > > I have been quoting HPB to try to tell you that=20 > > > for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > Regards, Carlos. > > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Dallas, Socrates=20 > > > & Subba Row > > > > > > > I thought Nous, was translated as "good at=20 > > > > being a man"? Pure and mixed suggests the=20 > > > > duality of higher and lower mind. > > > > > > > > Galileo retracted and wasn't persecuted.=20 > > > > Apollonious was not persecuted, he simply=20 > > > > vanished. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > carlosaveline wrote: Dear Dallas, > > > > > > > > You quote me: "You ask in conclusion: " So=20 > > > > Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher self,=20 > > > > Monad, Atma-Buddhi." > > > > > > > > Not quite, Dallas. > > > > > > > > Better then me, let's see, please, H. P. B.'s=20 > > > > words: > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe daemonium of Socrates was his nous [in=20 > > > > Greek in the original], mind, > > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in it.=20 > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe nous [in Greek in the > > > > original] of Socrates=EF=BF=BD, says Plutarch,=20 > > > > =EF=BF=BDwas pure and mixed itself with the > > > > body no more than necessity required.... (...)=20 > > > > The part that is plunged into > > > > the body is called soul. But the incorruptible=20 > > > > part is called the nous and > > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they=20 > > > > likewise imagine the image from > > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that=20 > > > > glass. But the more intelligent, > > > > who know it to be without, call it a Daemon=EF=BF=BD=20 > > > > (a god, a Spirit).=EF=BF=BD > > > > > > > > (=EF=BF=BDIsis Unveiled=EF=BF=BD, H. P. Blavatsky, T.U.P.,=20 > > > > Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, Volume II, 284-285.) > > > > > > > > Please read "Aplogy of Socrates" and you will=20 > > > > see whether Socrates, Plato'sx master, was=20 > > > > above his time "Mystery Schools", in Ethics=20 > > > > and in Ethics. > > > > > > > > And remember that persecution is the common=20 > > > > lot of sages in all time -- Seneca, Bruno,=20 > > > > Galilei, Appolonyus, so many others... > > > > > > > > The story of Subba Row is quite different. > > > > > > > > Subba Row died at 34 " et pour cause", as the=20 > > > > French saying goes. > > > > > > > > There were reasons for that. > > > > > > > > No advanced disciple could do what he did with=20 > > > > regard to HPB and the Master's work. Loyal in=20 > > > > his heart, he lost his body. OK. > > > > > > > > Best regards, Carlos. > > > > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 07:25:16 -0700 > > > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World RE: Socrates'=20 > > > > Higher Self or "Nous" The E S > > > > > > > > > 5/28/2006 6:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > Dear Carlos: > > > > > > > > > > You ask in conclusion: > > > > > > > > > > " So Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher=20 > > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi. > > > > > " > > > > > > > > > > Let me offer the following thoughts: It=20 > > > > > seems to me in this case that the > > > > > personality we know of historically as=20 > > > > > Socrates had not undergone the > > > > > process of Lower-Self [Kama-Manas]=20 > > > > > purification which the "Mystery schools" > > > > > in Plato's time still made available. > > > > > > > > > > I believe he was called "mediumistic" and=20 > > > > > was not therefore in full > > > > > Buddhi-Manasic control of the highest aspect=20 > > > > > of his personality > > > > > (Kama-Manas). > > > > > > > > > > Under the rules then in force in Plato's=20 > > > > > time (those of the Mystery Schools) > > > > > he had violated (unknowingly to himself)=20 > > > > > these by offering openly some items > > > > > that where still most secret. > > > > > > > > > > Looking for another and more recent example=20 > > > > > of this we can find how shocked > > > > > Subba Row was when he was asked by HPB to=20 > > > > > review and edit the first pages of > > > > > the SECRET DOCTRINE -- copied by C.=20 > > > > > Wachtmeister and sent to him in Mss. at > > > > > Adyar. > > > > > > > > > > He (I conclude) must have found himself in=20 > > > > > conflict with his own pledges of > > > > > secrecy as a Brahman. Yet it is said he had=20 > > > > > the same Guru as HPB. > > > > > Apparently even such advanced chelas as SR=20 > > > > > have to develop and exert their > > > > > independent Intuition over such matters . > > > > > > > > > > [ In any case, we are told that HPB had=20 > > > > > "special permission" granted to her > > > > > to reveal facts that had hitherto been kept=20 > > > > > ESOTERIC -- see ISIS UNVEILED, > > > > > Vol. II, p. 307 top ] > > > > > > > > > > I will offer an opinion on what happened: > > > > > > > > > > There is a hint given by HPB, as she says=20 > > > > > that starting with the E S (1888) > > > > > a change was given to the direction of=20 > > > > > exoteric theosophical work [The > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Adyar and Olcott=20 > > > > > swayed by the Council, had rejected > > > > > her (1885) and the Masters directions and=20 > > > > > methods.] -- and she stated later > > > > > that she would be solely responsible for the=20 > > > > > consequences of the changes she > > > > > would make, and yet, retain fraternal=20 > > > > > relations with the many sections and > > > > > branches of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY every=20 > > > > > one of which she declared to be > > > > > independent, and united under Col. Olcott,=20 > > > > > as President for Life. > > > > > > > > > > She lived for 3 years thereafter, and=20 > > > > > designated Judge (with 13 years of > > > > > successful chelaship embodied in him) to=20 > > > > > carry on and direct the Esoteric > > > > > Section after her passing. His ability and=20 > > > > > power in America caused the > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY to expand rapidly and=20 > > > > > spread to some extent Europe and > > > > > Australia. Yet he (WQJ) was an ill person=20 > > > > > and had no desire to usurp Olcott, > > > > > or to go to Adyar. > > > > > > > > > > Col. Olcott, though given a charter for the=20 > > > > > Esoteric Section in the East, > > > > > chose to have nothing to do with it. A B in=20 > > > > > England and Europe, chose at > > > > > first to fully assist judge, but then fell=20 > > > > > (under one of the 'tests' of > > > > > chelaship, under a Brahman's dark psychic=20 > > > > > influence, and the psychic > > > > > phenomena he produced, and the hints he=20 > > > > > advanced stating that she ought to > > > > > begin to doubt HPB's Masters and Judge's=20 > > > > > direct connections to Them, and > > > > > their sincerity. More confusion. A B=20 > > > > > discovered Olcott had the same kind > > > > > of doubts. They joined forces apparently, to=20 > > > > > open the "Judge Case." . > > > > > > > > > > All the rest followed -- fired by the single=20 > > > > > fact that never can the > > > > > "esoteric" be proved or demonstrated by the=20 > > > > > exoteric. > > > > > > > > > > No one can PROVE the esoteric to anyone=20 > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > Each has to discover it IN HIMSELF:=20 > > > > > ATMA-BUDDHI the IMMORTAL HIGHER SELF. > > > > > > > > > > The BUDDHI-MANAS is the MORAL INDIVIDUAL the=20 > > > > > ETERNAL Monad in incarnation. > > > > > > > > > > All the virtues have to be lived openly and=20 > > > > > observed practically. > > > > > > > > > > No personal claims have any value. > > > > > > > > > > I write the above, it being only my opinion=20 > > > > > of the matters based on facts > > > > > adduced. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Dallas > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: carlosaveline > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 8:19 AM > > > > > To: > > > > > Subject: Socrates' Higher Self or "Nous" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dallas, Friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. P. Blavatsky writes in "Isis Unveiled": > > > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe daemonium of Socrates was his nous=20 > > > > > [in Greek in the original], mind, > > > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in=20 > > > > > it. =EF=BF=BDThe nous [in Greek in the > > > > > original] of Socrates=EF=BF=BD, says Plutarch,=20 > > > > > =EF=BF=BDwas pure and mixed itself with the > > > > > body no more than necessity required....=20 > > > > > (...) The part that is plunged into > > > > > the body is called soul. But the=20 > > > > > incorruptible part is called the nous and > > > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they=20 > > > > > likewise imagine the image from > > > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that=20 > > > > > glass. But the more intelligent, > > > > > who know it to be without, call it a=20 > > > > > Daemon=EF=BF=BD (a god, a Spirit).=EF=BF=BD (1) > > > > > > > > > > And in the =EF=BF=BDMahatma Letters=EF=BF=BD, this=20 > > > > > statement is confirmed. Writing about > > > > > the seventh and sixth principles of human=20 > > > > > consciousness, which form one=EF=BF=BDs > > > > > Monad or higher self, an Adept-Teachers=20 > > > > > explains: > > > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDNeither Atma or Buddhi ever were within=20 > > > > > man, a little metaphisical axiom > > > > > that you can study with advantage in=20 > > > > > Plutarch and Anaxagoras. The latter > > > > > made his [ Greek words for =EF=BF=BDnous=EF=BF=BD ] the=20 > > > > > spirit self-potent, the nous that > > > > > alone recognized noumena whhile the former=20 > > > > > taught on the authority of Plato > > > > > and Pythagoras that the semomnius or this=20 > > > > > nous always remained without the > > > > > body; that it floated and overshadowed so to=20 > > > > > say the extreme part of the > > > > > man=EF=BF=BDs head, it is only the vulgar who=20 > > > > > think it is within them.=EF=BF=BD (2) > > > > > > > > > > In the Christian tradition, the aureoles=20 > > > > > above the heads of Saints, in > > > > > their portraits, are unconscious references=20 > > > > > to this fact. (3) > > > > > > > > > > So Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher=20 > > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi. > > > > > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline > > > > > > > > > > NOTES: > > > > > > > > > > (1) =EF=BF=BDIsis Unveiled=EF=BF=BD, H. P. Blavatsky,=20 > > > > > T.U.P., Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, > > > > > Volume II, 284-285. > > > > > > > > > > (2) =EF=BF=BDThe Mahatma Letters to A. P.=20 > > > > > Sinnett=EF=BF=BD, T.U.P., Letter CXXVII, p. 455 > > > > > (Letter 72 in the chronological edition,=20 > > > > > TPH, Philippines). > > > > > > > > > > (3) About the aureoles, see =EF=BF=BDMahatma=20 > > > > > Letters=EF=BF=BD, T.U.P., Letter XXIII-B, > > > > > item 9. (Letter 93-B, chronological=20 > > > > > edition). > > > > > > > > > > ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > De:"W.Dallas TenBroeck"=20 > > > > > dalval14@... > > > > > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > > > > > Data:Fri, 26 May 2006 07:59:59 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] RE: Socrates > > > > > > > > > > > 5/26/2006 7:58 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends: > > > > > > > > > > > > Having appreciation for Ken's view (below) > > > > > > > > > > > > Could these ideas also be considered? > > > > > > > > > > > > INNER EGO.DOC > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > November 9, 2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a number of terms used here and=20 > > > > > > one ought to go to the > > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY to secure more=20 > > > > > > accurate description of them. That is > > > > > > the starting base we all need. Next would=20 > > > > > > be to go to the SECRET DOCTRINE > > > > > > INDEX and look up all the references that=20 > > > > > > throw light on this subject. It > > > > > > is best that each student do this work for=20 > > > > > > himself -- there are no > > > > > > "short-cuts." > > > > > > > > > > > > Allow me to offer this to be checked out=20 > > > > > > and considered: > > > > > > > > > > > > The SPIRIT (ATMA) which is universal (as=20 > > > > > > MAHATMA) already exists as a > > > > > basis > > > > > > in every smallest aspect of Nature and=20 > > > > > > also in Man, as the ATMA [a "Ray" > > > > > of > > > > > > the ABSOLUTE] is the base for the 6 + 3=20 > > > > > > other principles which extend > > > > > > between SPIRIT and the "MATTER." of which=20 > > > > > > our physical body is a > > > > > > representative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Our Consciousness is ONE. Yet it is said=20 > > > > > > to pierce up and down the 7 > > > > > planes > > > > > > of being and serves to uphold the memory=20 > > > > > > of the Souls' experience on any > > > > > > plane and in every state. The vehicle USED=20 > > > > > > BY THIS One Consciousness on > > > > > > any plane or any state of matter, depends=20 > > > > > > on the effort made by the > > > > > > Individual to refine and purify the matter=20 > > > > > > that he uses there in each of > > > > > > those states or planes. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that our personal life always=20 > > > > > > shields and secretes the moral > > > > > > Chooser who is the eternal PERCEIVER=20 > > > > > > [ATMA-BUDDHI] that resides within. It > > > > > > is the employer of the human Mind=20 > > > > > > [BUDDHI-MANAS], the Psyche [KAMA-MANAS] > > > > > > and Astral-Physical body as its=20 > > > > > > amanuensis. [And these in turn are > > > > > composed > > > > > > of innumerable immortal Monads, each at=20 > > > > > > its appropriate position in this > > > > > > enormous and all encompassing evolutionary=20 > > > > > > scheme [ see S D I 632 ] -- a > > > > > > scheme that is based on an individual=20 > > > > > > balance point of exactitude so > > > > > > sensitive, that any and all deviations=20 > > > > > > from harmony reverberate throughout > > > > > > the vast whole and affect the advance of=20 > > > > > > all the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > If this is true, then nothing is=20 > > > > > > unimportant. The "Moment of Choice" is > > > > > > always Now, and is a moral imperative=20 > > > > > > which no one can escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "magic" or, the WISDOM of the=20 > > > > > > esoteric or that which is called > > > > > > "occult wisdom," and, we may try to begin=20 > > > > > > to grasp some of its parameters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One might consider that the real "magic"=20 > > > > > > is wisdom and is obtained from > > > > > > within, shunning any exoteric practices or=20 > > > > > > "selfish black-magic" > > > > > whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By focusing on the Divine ATMA within, we=20 > > > > > > allow the spirit-Life (Jiva) of > > > > > > Divine Universal Compassion and Love to=20 > > > > > > work in us and then we may diffuse > > > > > > > > > > > it amidst neighbours. kin and the rest of=20 > > > > > > humankind. We may, without > > > > > > personal expectations, serve the processes=20 > > > > > > of the great Law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is TRUTH for us the "embodied minds"?=20 > > > > > > Is it an endless quest ? > > > > > > > > > > > > If one takes Karma and Reincarnation into=20 > > > > > > account, and the concept that > > > > > the > > > > > > REAL MAN is an eternal Monad, the paradox=20 > > > > > > unravels. > > > > > > > > > > > > An immortal being [Monad (Atma-Buddhi),=20 > > > > > > such as we all are fundamentally > > > > > > is not concerned with time -- as it uses=20 > > > > > > many bodies in which to assist > > > > > any > > > > > > brother Monad (as a reference source) to=20 > > > > > > "perfect" its own Wisdom. This > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > it, is true independence - without losing=20 > > > > > > any of its own heard-earned > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > and responsibility, it seeks to make of=20 > > > > > > its organism a useful helper in > > > > > > Nature=EF=BF=BDs continual struggle to provide=20 > > > > > > an equilibrated, harmonious flow of > > > > > > existence, and assist > > > > > > in the process of general evolution. This=20 > > > > > > is brotherhood in action. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to be based on the free gift of=20 > > > > > > mutual assistance and service. An > > > > > > example of this kind of sublime SERVICE is=20 > > > > > > offered to us to consider in > > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp. 207-210.=20 > > > > > > There the nature, function and > > > > > > devotion of a Planetary Spirit is=20 > > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > > > > An impersonal channel of Karma is opened=20 > > > > > > by acting for a just desire, when > > > > > > that is seen in another Yogi=EF=BF=BDs mind. No=20 > > > > > > personal benefit or acquisition is > > > > > > expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > This effort marks the evolution and=20 > > > > > > progress of Nature and the important > > > > > > service that each human performs in this=20 > > > > > > process. > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider the task as outlined in the=20 > > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE : > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the process of lifting the whole=20 > > > > > > mass of "matter" up to the > > > > > > condition, nature and stature of CONSCIOUS=20 > > > > > > GOD-HOOD. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the "gift of mind" passed on by the=20 > > > > > > original and primordial Dhyanis > > > > > > to the host of Monads that are "ready."=20 > > > > > > Are they thus not encouraged to > > > > > > assume again the true "Gods" that they=20 > > > > > > were before they plunged > > > > > > voluntarily again into the experiences of=20 > > > > > > diversified material existence > > > > > > (consisting of those Monads which are now=20 > > > > > > entering the period and process > > > > > of > > > > > > a self-willed development of Manas) where=20 > > > > > > the "maya" of illusion (desires, > > > > > > feelings, passions - Kama makes all that=20 > > > > > > is real appear evanescent and > > > > > > seemingly incomprehensible. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears, when presented with an event=20 > > > > > > or a report, we ought to ask: > > > > > "What > > > > > > caused this ? What Laws are involved? Why=20 > > > > > > am I involved? What should be > > > > > > the ideal reaction?" -- In other words, we=20 > > > > > > have to universalize and > > > > > > impersonalize our concepts. One of the=20 > > > > > > best guides will be fund in the > > > > > > close study of PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS=20 > > > > > > translated by Mr. W. Q. Judge, and > > > > > > The VOICE OF THE SILENCE by H P B . These=20 > > > > > > cause us to delve into causes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shall we say: One of the problems is now=20 > > > > > > identified. How do we, as > > > > > > embodied > > > > > > Minds, forced to work in and use a brain=20 > > > > > > of matter [living Monads], view > > > > > the > > > > > > period and > > > > > > condition of our existence beyond the=20 > > > > > > birth and death of the personality > > > > > it > > > > > > is now > > > > > > living in.? It becomes clear that the=20 > > > > > > Personality of this present > > > > > existence > > > > > > has limits to its memories and views, but=20 > > > > > > no limits to its intuitive > > > > > > potentials. These it derives from the=20 > > > > > > immortal and universal fund of > > > > > > "wisdom" > > > > > > BUDDHI. Buddhi-Manas is then the "link." > > > > > > > > > > > > We may well ask ourselves: "How did I=20 > > > > > > derive the knowledge, character and > > > > > > capacities I have surrounding me, the=20 > > > > > > Perceiver and the Thinker, as my > > > > > > abilities and disabilities? We can=20 > > > > > > logically derive their source as having > > > > > > been fashioned in previous lives. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20=09=09 > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone=20 call rates. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Thu Jun 01 05:56:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36755 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 12:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 12:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 12:22:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:20:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2006 12:20:26 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 12:20:26 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.45 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.218.166 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Mahatma version of Barker print 1979 pag 340-343 letter 59 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=g1zERa8Ruw3oXCI7Ho-4a_M4o7UrB4ercAII2sJOY1ZHYQqeTrcrMNP57Uqvoo4 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33853 MAHATMA LETTERS [Barker],to Sinnett. pp. 345-6 explains: > For the ones have a newer edition print 1979 it is letter 59 pages=20 340-3. > "Does your B.T.S. know the meaning of the white and black interlaced > triangles, of the Parent Society's seal that it has also adopted? Shall I > explain? =96 > > the double triangle viewed by the Jewish Kabalists as Solomon's Seal, is, as > many of you doubtless know the Sri-antara of the archaic Aryan Temple, the > "mystery of Mysteries," a geometrical synthesis of the whole occult > doctrine. > > The two interlaced triangles are the Buddhangums of Creation. They contain > the "squaring of the circle," the "philosophical stone," the great problems > of Life and Death, and -- the Mystery of Evil. > > The chela who can explain this sign from every one of its aspects - - is > virtually an adept. > > How is it then that the only one among you, who has come so near to > unravelling the mystery is also the only one who got none of her ideas from > books? Unconsciously she gives out -- to him who has the key -- the first > syllable of the Ineffable name! > > Of course you know that the double-triangle -- the Satkiri Chakram of Vishnu > -- or the six-pointed star, is the perfect seven. In all the old Sanskrit > works -- Vedic and Tantrik -- you find the number 6 mentioned more often > than the 7 -- this last figure, the central point being implied, for it is > the germ of the six and their matrix. > > It is then thus . . . [At this point in the original there is a rough > drawing of the interlaced triangles inscribed in a circle. -- ED.] -- the > central point standing for seventh, and the circle, the Mahakasha - - endless > space -- for the seventh Universal Principle. > > In one sense, both are viewed as Avalokitesvara, for they are respectively > the Macrocosm and the microcosm. > > The interlaced triangles -- the upper pointing one -- is Wisdom concealed, > and the downward pointing one -- Wisdom revealed (in the phenomenal world). > > The circle indicates the bounding, circumscribing quality of the All, the > Universal Principle which, from any given point expands so as to embrace all > things, while embodying the potentiality of every action in the Cosmos. > > As the point then is the centre round which the circle is traced -- they are > identical and one, and though from the standpoint of Maya and Avidya -- > (illusion and ignorance) -- one is separated from the other by the > manifested triangle, the 3 sides of which represent the three gunas -- > finite attributes. > > In symbology the central point is Jivatma (the 7th principle), and hence > Avalokitesvara, the Kwan-Shai-yin, the manifested "Voice" (or Logos), the > germ point of manifested activity; -- hence -- in the phraseology of the > Christian Kabalists "the Son of the Father and Mother," and agreeably to > ours -- "the Self manifested in Self -- Yih-sin, the "one form of > existence," the child of Dharmakaya (the universally diffused Essence), both > male and female. > > Parabrahm or "Adi-Buddha" while acting through that germ point outwardly as > an active force, reacts from the circumference inwardly as the Supreme but > latent Potency. > > The double triangles symbolize the Great Passive and the Great Active; the > male and female; Purusha and Prakriti. > > Each triangle is a Trinity because presenting a triple aspect. > > The white represents in its straight lines: Gnanam -- (Knowledge); Gnata -- > (the Knower); and Gnayam -- (that which is known). The black-form, colour, > and substance, also the creative, preservative, and destructive forces and > are mutually correlating, etc., etc. > > Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity of > that remarkable seeress [Mrs. Kingsford], who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, > and thus shut out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great > light shining from behind the dark bills of exoteric religions. How, think > you, did the "Writers of the Perfect Way" come to know that Adonai was the > Son and not the Father; or that the third Person of the Christian Trinity is > -- female? Verily, they lay in that work several times their hands upon the > keystone of Occultism. Only does the lady -- who persists using without an > explanation the misleading term "God" in her writings -- know how nearly she > comes up to our doctrine when saying: -- "Having for Father, Spirit which is > Life (the endless Circle or Parabrahm) and for Mother the Great Deep, which > is Substance (Prakriti in its undifferentiated condition) -- Adonai > possesses the potency of both and wields the dual powers of all things." > > We would say triple, but in the sense as given this will do. > > Pythagoras had a reason for never using the finite, useless figure -- 2, and > for altogether discarding it. > > The ONE, can, when manifesting, become only 3. > > The unmanifested when a simple duality remains passive and concealed. The > dual monad (the 7th and 6th principles) has, in order to manifest itself as > a Logos, the "Kwan-shai-yin" to first become a triad (7th, 6th and half of > the 5th); then, on the bosom of the "Great Deep" attracting within itself > the One Circle -- form out of it the perfect Square, thus "squaring the > circle" -- the greatest of all the mysteries, friend -- and inscribing > within the latter the -- WORD (the Ineffable name) -- otherwise the duality > could never tarry as such, and would have to be reabsorbed into the ONE. > > The "Deep" is Space -- both male and female. "Purush (as Brahma) breathes in > the Eternity: when 'he' in-breathes -- Prakriti (as manifested Substance) > disappears in his bosom; when 'he' out-breathes she reappears as Maya," says > the Sloka. The One reality is Mulaprakriti (undifferentiated Substance) -- > the "Rootless root," the. . . But we have to stop, lest there should remain > but little to tell for your own intuitions. > > Well may the Geometer of the R.S. not know that the apparent absurdity of > attempting to square the circle covers a mystery ineffable. It would hardly > be found among the foundation stones of Mr. Roden Noel's speculations upon > the "pneumatical body . . . of our Lord," nor among the debris of Mr. > Farmer's "A New Basis of Belief in Immortality"; and to many such > metaphysical minds it would be worse than useless to divulge the fact, that > > the Unmanifested Circle -- the Father, or Absolute Life -- is non- existent > outside the Triangle and Perfect Square, and -- is only manifested in the > Son; and that it is when, reversing the action and returning to its absolute > state of Unity, and the square expands once more into the Circle -- that > "the Son returns to the bosom of the Father." > > There it remains until called back by his Mother -- the "Great Deep," to > remanifest as a triad -- the Son partaking at once, of the Essence of the > Father, and of that of the Mother -- the active Substance, Prakriti in its > differentiated condition. > > "My Mother -- (Sophia -- the manifested Wisdom) took me" -- says Jesus in a > Gnostic treatise; and he asks his disciples to tarry till he comes. . . . > The true "Word" may only be found by tracing the mystery of the passage > inward and outward of the Eternal Life, through the states typified in these > three geometric figures. > > The criticism of "A Student of Occultism" (whose wits are sharpened by the > mountain air of his home) and the answer of "S.T.K. . . . Chary" (June > Theosophist) upon a part of your annular and circular expositions need not > annoy or disturb in any way your philosophic calm. > > As our Pondicherry chela significantly says, neither you nor any other man > across the threshold has had or ever will have the "complete theory" of > Evolution taught him; or get it unless he guesses it for himself. > > If anyone can unravel it from such tangled threads as are given him, very > well; and a fine proof it would indeed be of his or her spiritual insight. > Some -- have come very near it. But yet there is always with the best of > them just enough error, -- colouring and misconception; the shadow of Manas > projecting across the field of Buddhi -- to prove the eternal law that only > the unshackled Spirit shall see the things of the Spirit without a veil. > > No untaught amateur could ever rival the proficient in this branch of > research; yet the world's real Revelators have been few, and its > pseudo-Saviours legion; and fortunate it is if their half-glimpses of the > light are not, like Islam, enforced at the sword's point, or like Christian > Theology, amid blazing faggots and in torture chambers. > > Your Fragments contain some -- still very few errors, due solely to your two > preceptors of Adyar, one of whom would not, and the other could not tell you > all. The rest could not be called mistakes -- rather incomplete > explanations. These are due, partly to your own imperfect education in your > last theme -- I mean the ever-threatening obscurations -- partly to the poor > vehicles of language at our disposal, and in part again, to the reserve > imposed upon us by rule. Yet, all things considered, they are few and > trivial; while as to those noticed by "A Student, etc." (the Marcus Aurelius > of Simla) in your No. VII, it will be pleasant for you to know that every > one of them, however now seeming to you contradictory, can (and if it should > seem necessary shall) be easily reconciled with facts. > > The trouble is that (a) you cannot be given the real figures and difference > in the Rounds, and (b) that you do not open doors enough for explorers. > > The bright Luminary of the B.T.S. and the Intelligences that surround her > (embodied I mean) may help you to see the flaws: at all events Try. "Nothing > was ever lost by trying." > > You share with all beginners the tendency to draw too absolutely strong > inferences from partly caught hints, and to dogmatize thereupon as though > the last word had been spoken. You will correct this in due time. You may > misunderstand us, are more than likely to do so, for our language must > always be more or less that of parable and suggestion, when treading upon > forbidden ground; we have our own peculiar modes of expression and what lies > behind the fence of words is even more important than what you read. But > still -- TRY. > > Perhaps if Mr. S. Moses could know just what was meant by what was said to > him, and about his Intelligences, he would find all strictly true. As he is > a man of interior growth, his day may come and his reconciliation with "the > Occultists" be complete. Who knows? > > Meanwhile, I shall, with your permission, close this first volume. > > > K. H. > From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Thu Jun 01 06:47:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25444 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 13:47:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 13:47:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bundure.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.195) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 13:47:24 -0000 Received: from caliope.hst.terra.com.br (caliope.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.8]) by bundure.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950D99A032B for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:45:18 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: e96ef53d2213c33119c9b282ecad933e Received-SPF: pass (caliope.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.8; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (alambi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.180]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by caliope.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDC01BD40C8 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:45:18 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:45:18 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.10.168.11 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.195 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Re: VIRACHOCHA & THE ANDES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=dcQHpI-_rYditEmwrY1pZbs090Qdjeo7seJ5Ih0KcdJ366vXnuRj8s4 X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33854 John, Thanks a lot, it will be useful, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Thu, 1 Jun 2006 04:48:58 EDT Assunto:Re: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA & THE ANDES > Carlos, > Here are two "hotlinks" for google search listings for: >=20 > Toro Muerto > and > Marcahausi Plateau >=20 > from these tow Google listing you will find much information about the mo= st=20 > interesting archeological and Anthropological sites >=20 >=20 > toro muerto - Google Search=20 >=20 >=20 > marcahuasi plateau - Google Search >=20 >=20 > LOCATION OF TORO MUERTO, PERU=20 >=20 > DETAIL PHOTO OF TORO MUERTO, PERU=20 >=20 > Toro Muerto Petroglyphs=20 >=20 > enjoy, > John >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1149151798.841585.6596.tulear.hst.terra.com.br,3713,Des15,Des15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 31/05/2006 / Vers?o: 4.4.00= /4774 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Thu Jun 01 06:54:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86209 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 13:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 13:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buraja.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.198) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 13:49:48 -0000 Received: from calivil.hst.terra.com.br (calivil.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.9]) by buraja.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6CF22A418A for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:48:21 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 03bd89ea4562d720abb8ac4a04cc389d Received-SPF: pass (calivil.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.9 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.9; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (alambi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.180]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by calivil.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF2B1248076 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:48:21 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:48:21 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.10.168.11 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Re:VIRACHOCHA and INTI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=fLZhX57HZhVzUJtjswAa8iaU-NkJ-1Xdmntzx4OCcMGkmJd-AEYLvvc X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33855 Cass, I said Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun, in one of its readings,=20 in the Andean tradition. I will leave this for you to interpret. Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 18:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA and INTI > Carlos, what do you mean by Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun. Wha= t exactly, in your words, is the inner aspect of the Sun? What in your word= s is a solar deity? >=20 > Cass >=20 > carlosaveline wrote: Friends,=20 >=20 > Inti is the Sun.=20 >=20 > Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun.=20 >=20 > A solar deity in the Andean Tradition.=20 >=20 >=20 > Carlos.=20 >=20 > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > C=EF=BF=BDpia: >=20 > Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 07:02:29 +0200 >=20 > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND VIRACHOCHA >=20 > > That is indeed CURIOUS, Cass. > >=20 > > Viracocha, the white, beared man: > > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9054/viraco.html > >=20 > > The more if you read with the Old High German key: > > vera cota =3D the true god. > >=20 > > It will be more clear if you use the sentence=20 > > before your quote as a key. > >=20 > > OHG Quez al coto =3D all knowing god. > >=20 > > Quezalcoto/Viracocha/Verakotscha/Wotan/Vatan is=20 > > the same OHG deitic creation emanation. > >=20 > > Bla vat sky =3D the angelic messenger knew this and=20 > > was the creator of a new age. > >=20 > > It is stated in the Book of Dzyan. > >=20 > > Dzyan is the=20 > > Teutan/teut-ahn/teut-anu/teut/teot/deus/teotl/theos/thot/zeus/zion,=20 > > the highest god of the old Germans in the=20 > > Mecklenburg area. > >=20 > > Frank > >=20 > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Cass Silva"=20 > > To:=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:16 AM > > Subject: Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND=20 > > VIRACHOCHA > >=20 > >=20 > > You might like to educate me Carlos. Vishnu,=20 > > Dagon (Logos or Parabrahman). "It is curious that=20 > > Viracocha, the Supreme Being in Peru, means,=20 > > literally translated, "foam of the sea." IUP259 > > Cass > >=20 > > carlosaveline wrote:=20 > > Cass, > >=20 > > You know nothing about my library. > >=20 > > Try discuss Virachocha and you will see. > >=20 > > Carlos. > >=20 > >=20 > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > >=20 > > Data:Mon, 29 May 2006 21:58:00 -0700 (PDT) > >=20 > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS and the NOUS > >=20 > > > Carlos, > > > With respect, I am convinced that you spent your=20 > > > past lifetime at the feet of Socrates as no=20 > > > amount of evidence will budge you. So be it. > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > carlosaveline wrote: Cass, > > > > > > NOUS is the higher self, and Socrates's Daimon=20 > > > was basically his own NOUS. > > > > > > I have been quoting HPB to try to tell you that=20 > > > for a few weeks now. > > > > > > > > > Regards, Carlos. > > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Dallas, Socrates=20 > > > & Subba Row > > > > > > > I thought Nous, was translated as "good at=20 > > > > being a man"? Pure and mixed suggests the=20 > > > > duality of higher and lower mind. > > > > > > > > Galileo retracted and wasn't persecuted.=20 > > > > Apollonious was not persecuted, he simply=20 > > > > vanished. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > carlosaveline wrote: Dear Dallas, > > > > > > > > You quote me: "You ask in conclusion: " So=20 > > > > Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher self,=20 > > > > Monad, Atma-Buddhi." > > > > > > > > Not quite, Dallas. > > > > > > > > Better then me, let's see, please, H. P. B.'s=20 > > > > words: > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe daemonium of Socrates was his nous [in=20 > > > > Greek in the original], mind, > > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in it.=20 > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe nous [in Greek in the > > > > original] of Socrates=EF=BF=BD, says Plutarch,=20 > > > > =EF=BF=BDwas pure and mixed itself with the > > > > body no more than necessity required.... (...)=20 > > > > The part that is plunged into > > > > the body is called soul. But the incorruptible=20 > > > > part is called the nous and > > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they=20 > > > > likewise imagine the image from > > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that=20 > > > > glass. But the more intelligent, > > > > who know it to be without, call it a Daemon=EF=BF=BD=20 > > > > (a god, a Spirit).=EF=BF=BD > > > > > > > > (=EF=BF=BDIsis Unveiled=EF=BF=BD, H. P. Blavatsky, T.U.P.,=20 > > > > Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, Volume II, 284-285.) > > > > > > > > Please read "Aplogy of Socrates" and you will=20 > > > > see whether Socrates, Plato'sx master, was=20 > > > > above his time "Mystery Schools", in Ethics=20 > > > > and in Ethics. > > > > > > > > And remember that persecution is the common=20 > > > > lot of sages in all time -- Seneca, Bruno,=20 > > > > Galilei, Appolonyus, so many others... > > > > > > > > The story of Subba Row is quite different. > > > > > > > > Subba Row died at 34 " et pour cause", as the=20 > > > > French saying goes. > > > > > > > > There were reasons for that. > > > > > > > > No advanced disciple could do what he did with=20 > > > > regard to HPB and the Master's work. Loyal in=20 > > > > his heart, he lost his body. OK. > > > > > > > > Best regards, Carlos. > > > > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 07:25:16 -0700 > > > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World RE: Socrates'=20 > > > > Higher Self or "Nous" The E S > > > > > > > > > 5/28/2006 6:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > Dear Carlos: > > > > > > > > > > You ask in conclusion: > > > > > > > > > > " So Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher=20 > > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi. > > > > > " > > > > > > > > > > Let me offer the following thoughts: It=20 > > > > > seems to me in this case that the > > > > > personality we know of historically as=20 > > > > > Socrates had not undergone the > > > > > process of Lower-Self [Kama-Manas]=20 > > > > > purification which the "Mystery schools" > > > > > in Plato's time still made available. > > > > > > > > > > I believe he was called "mediumistic" and=20 > > > > > was not therefore in full > > > > > Buddhi-Manasic control of the highest aspect=20 > > > > > of his personality > > > > > (Kama-Manas). > > > > > > > > > > Under the rules then in force in Plato's=20 > > > > > time (those of the Mystery Schools) > > > > > he had violated (unknowingly to himself)=20 > > > > > these by offering openly some items > > > > > that where still most secret. > > > > > > > > > > Looking for another and more recent example=20 > > > > > of this we can find how shocked > > > > > Subba Row was when he was asked by HPB to=20 > > > > > review and edit the first pages of > > > > > the SECRET DOCTRINE -- copied by C.=20 > > > > > Wachtmeister and sent to him in Mss. at > > > > > Adyar. > > > > > > > > > > He (I conclude) must have found himself in=20 > > > > > conflict with his own pledges of > > > > > secrecy as a Brahman. Yet it is said he had=20 > > > > > the same Guru as HPB. > > > > > Apparently even such advanced chelas as SR=20 > > > > > have to develop and exert their > > > > > independent Intuition over such matters . > > > > > > > > > > [ In any case, we are told that HPB had=20 > > > > > "special permission" granted to her > > > > > to reveal facts that had hitherto been kept=20 > > > > > ESOTERIC -- see ISIS UNVEILED, > > > > > Vol. II, p. 307 top ] > > > > > > > > > > I will offer an opinion on what happened: > > > > > > > > > > There is a hint given by HPB, as she says=20 > > > > > that starting with the E S (1888) > > > > > a change was given to the direction of=20 > > > > > exoteric theosophical work [The > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Adyar and Olcott=20 > > > > > swayed by the Council, had rejected > > > > > her (1885) and the Masters directions and=20 > > > > > methods.] -- and she stated later > > > > > that she would be solely responsible for the=20 > > > > > consequences of the changes she > > > > > would make, and yet, retain fraternal=20 > > > > > relations with the many sections and > > > > > branches of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY every=20 > > > > > one of which she declared to be > > > > > independent, and united under Col. Olcott,=20 > > > > > as President for Life. > > > > > > > > > > She lived for 3 years thereafter, and=20 > > > > > designated Judge (with 13 years of > > > > > successful chelaship embodied in him) to=20 > > > > > carry on and direct the Esoteric > > > > > Section after her passing. His ability and=20 > > > > > power in America caused the > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY to expand rapidly and=20 > > > > > spread to some extent Europe and > > > > > Australia. Yet he (WQJ) was an ill person=20 > > > > > and had no desire to usurp Olcott, > > > > > or to go to Adyar. > > > > > > > > > > Col. Olcott, though given a charter for the=20 > > > > > Esoteric Section in the East, > > > > > chose to have nothing to do with it. A B in=20 > > > > > England and Europe, chose at > > > > > first to fully assist judge, but then fell=20 > > > > > (under one of the 'tests' of > > > > > chelaship, under a Brahman's dark psychic=20 > > > > > influence, and the psychic > > > > > phenomena he produced, and the hints he=20 > > > > > advanced stating that she ought to > > > > > begin to doubt HPB's Masters and Judge's=20 > > > > > direct connections to Them, and > > > > > their sincerity. More confusion. A B=20 > > > > > discovered Olcott had the same kind > > > > > of doubts. They joined forces apparently, to=20 > > > > > open the "Judge Case." . > > > > > > > > > > All the rest followed -- fired by the single=20 > > > > > fact that never can the > > > > > "esoteric" be proved or demonstrated by the=20 > > > > > exoteric. > > > > > > > > > > No one can PROVE the esoteric to anyone=20 > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > Each has to discover it IN HIMSELF:=20 > > > > > ATMA-BUDDHI the IMMORTAL HIGHER SELF. > > > > > > > > > > The BUDDHI-MANAS is the MORAL INDIVIDUAL the=20 > > > > > ETERNAL Monad in incarnation. > > > > > > > > > > All the virtues have to be lived openly and=20 > > > > > observed practically. > > > > > > > > > > No personal claims have any value. > > > > > > > > > > I write the above, it being only my opinion=20 > > > > > of the matters based on facts > > > > > adduced. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Dallas > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: carlosaveline > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 8:19 AM > > > > > To: > > > > > Subject: Socrates' Higher Self or "Nous" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dallas, Friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. P. Blavatsky writes in "Isis Unveiled": > > > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDThe daemonium of Socrates was his nous=20 > > > > > [in Greek in the original], mind, > > > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in=20 > > > > > it. =EF=BF=BDThe nous [in Greek in the > > > > > original] of Socrates=EF=BF=BD, says Plutarch,=20 > > > > > =EF=BF=BDwas pure and mixed itself with the > > > > > body no more than necessity required....=20 > > > > > (...) The part that is plunged into > > > > > the body is called soul. But the=20 > > > > > incorruptible part is called the nous and > > > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they=20 > > > > > likewise imagine the image from > > > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that=20 > > > > > glass. But the more intelligent, > > > > > who know it to be without, call it a=20 > > > > > Daemon=EF=BF=BD (a god, a Spirit).=EF=BF=BD (1) > > > > > > > > > > And in the =EF=BF=BDMahatma Letters=EF=BF=BD, this=20 > > > > > statement is confirmed. Writing about > > > > > the seventh and sixth principles of human=20 > > > > > consciousness, which form one=EF=BF=BDs > > > > > Monad or higher self, an Adept-Teachers=20 > > > > > explains: > > > > > > > > > > =EF=BF=BDNeither Atma or Buddhi ever were within=20 > > > > > man, a little metaphisical axiom > > > > > that you can study with advantage in=20 > > > > > Plutarch and Anaxagoras. The latter > > > > > made his [ Greek words for =EF=BF=BDnous=EF=BF=BD ] the=20 > > > > > spirit self-potent, the nous that > > > > > alone recognized noumena whhile the former=20 > > > > > taught on the authority of Plato > > > > > and Pythagoras that the semomnius or this=20 > > > > > nous always remained without the > > > > > body; that it floated and overshadowed so to=20 > > > > > say the extreme part of the > > > > > man=EF=BF=BDs head, it is only the vulgar who=20 > > > > > think it is within them.=EF=BF=BD (2) > > > > > > > > > > In the Christian tradition, the aureoles=20 > > > > > above the heads of Saints, in > > > > > their portraits, are unconscious references=20 > > > > > to this fact. (3) > > > > > > > > > > So Socrates=EF=BF=BD Daimon was his own higher=20 > > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi. > > > > > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline > > > > > > > > > > NOTES: > > > > > > > > > > (1) =EF=BF=BDIsis Unveiled=EF=BF=BD, H. P. Blavatsky,=20 > > > > > T.U.P., Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, > > > > > Volume II, 284-285. > > > > > > > > > > (2) =EF=BF=BDThe Mahatma Letters to A. P.=20 > > > > > Sinnett=EF=BF=BD, T.U.P., Letter CXXVII, p. 455 > > > > > (Letter 72 in the chronological edition,=20 > > > > > TPH, Philippines). > > > > > > > > > > (3) About the aureoles, see =EF=BF=BDMahatma=20 > > > > > Letters=EF=BF=BD, T.U.P., Letter XXIII-B, > > > > > item 9. (Letter 93-B, chronological=20 > > > > > edition). > > > > > > > > > > ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > De:"W.Dallas TenBroeck"=20 > > > > > dalval14@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > C=EF=BF=BDpia: > > > > > > > > > > Data:Fri, 26 May 2006 07:59:59 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > Assunto:[Spam] RE: Socrates > > > > > > > > > > > 5/26/2006 7:58 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends: > > > > > > > > > > > > Having appreciation for Ken's view (below) > > > > > > > > > > > > Could these ideas also be considered? > > > > > > > > > > > > INNER EGO.DOC > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > November 9, 2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a number of terms used here and=20 > > > > > > one ought to go to the > > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY to secure more=20 > > > > > > accurate description of them. That is > > > > > > the starting base we all need. Next would=20 > > > > > > be to go to the SECRET DOCTRINE > > > > > > INDEX and look up all the references that=20 > > > > > > throw light on this subject. It > > > > > > is best that each student do this work for=20 > > > > > > himself -- there are no > > > > > > "short-cuts." > > > > > > > > > > > > Allow me to offer this to be checked out=20 > > > > > > and considered: > > > > > > > > > > > > The SPIRIT (ATMA) which is universal (as=20 > > > > > > MAHATMA) already exists as a > > > > > basis > > > > > > in every smallest aspect of Nature and=20 > > > > > > also in Man, as the ATMA [a "Ray" > > > > > of > > > > > > the ABSOLUTE] is the base for the 6 + 3=20 > > > > > > other principles which extend > > > > > > between SPIRIT and the "MATTER." of which=20 > > > > > > our physical body is a > > > > > > representative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Our Consciousness is ONE. Yet it is said=20 > > > > > > to pierce up and down the 7 > > > > > planes > > > > > > of being and serves to uphold the memory=20 > > > > > > of the Souls' experience on any > > > > > > plane and in every state. The vehicle USED=20 > > > > > > BY THIS One Consciousness on > > > > > > any plane or any state of matter, depends=20 > > > > > > on the effort made by the > > > > > > Individual to refine and purify the matter=20 > > > > > > that he uses there in each of > > > > > > those states or planes. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that our personal life always=20 > > > > > > shields and secretes the moral > > > > > > Chooser who is the eternal PERCEIVER=20 > > > > > > [ATMA-BUDDHI] that resides within. It > > > > > > is the employer of the human Mind=20 > > > > > > [BUDDHI-MANAS], the Psyche [KAMA-MANAS] > > > > > > and Astral-Physical body as its=20 > > > > > > amanuensis. [And these in turn are > > > > > composed > > > > > > of innumerable immortal Monads, each at=20 > > > > > > its appropriate position in this > > > > > > enormous and all encompassing evolutionary=20 > > > > > > scheme [ see S D I 632 ] -- a > > > > > > scheme that is based on an individual=20 > > > > > > balance point of exactitude so > > > > > > sensitive, that any and all deviations=20 > > > > > > from harmony reverberate throughout > > > > > > the vast whole and affect the advance of=20 > > > > > > all the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > If this is true, then nothing is=20 > > > > > > unimportant. The "Moment of Choice" is > > > > > > always Now, and is a moral imperative=20 > > > > > > which no one can escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the "magic" or, the WISDOM of the=20 > > > > > > esoteric or that which is called > > > > > > "occult wisdom," and, we may try to begin=20 > > > > > > to grasp some of its parameters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One might consider that the real "magic"=20 > > > > > > is wisdom and is obtained from > > > > > > within, shunning any exoteric practices or=20 > > > > > > "selfish black-magic" > > > > > whatsoever. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By focusing on the Divine ATMA within, we=20 > > > > > > allow the spirit-Life (Jiva) of > > > > > > Divine Universal Compassion and Love to=20 > > > > > > work in us and then we may diffuse > > > > > > > > > > > it amidst neighbours. kin and the rest of=20 > > > > > > humankind. We may, without > > > > > > personal expectations, serve the processes=20 > > > > > > of the great Law of Karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is TRUTH for us the "embodied minds"?=20 > > > > > > Is it an endless quest ? > > > > > > > > > > > > If one takes Karma and Reincarnation into=20 > > > > > > account, and the concept that > > > > > the > > > > > > REAL MAN is an eternal Monad, the paradox=20 > > > > > > unravels. > > > > > > > > > > > > An immortal being [Monad (Atma-Buddhi),=20 > > > > > > such as we all are fundamentally > > > > > > is not concerned with time -- as it uses=20 > > > > > > many bodies in which to assist > > > > > any > > > > > > brother Monad (as a reference source) to=20 > > > > > > "perfect" its own Wisdom. This > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > it, is true independence - without losing=20 > > > > > > any of its own heard-earned > > > > > wisdom > > > > > > and responsibility, it seeks to make of=20 > > > > > > its organism a useful helper in > > > > > > Nature=EF=BF=BDs continual struggle to provide=20 > > > > > > an equilibrated, harmonious flow of > > > > > > existence, and assist > > > > > > in the process of general evolution. This=20 > > > > > > is brotherhood in action. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to be based on the free gift of=20 > > > > > > mutual assistance and service. An > > > > > > example of this kind of sublime SERVICE is=20 > > > > > > offered to us to consider in > > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp. 207-210.=20 > > > > > > There the nature, function and > > > > > > devotion of a Planetary Spirit is=20 > > > > > > described. > > > > > > > > > > > > An impersonal channel of Karma is opened=20 > > > > > > by acting for a just desire, when > > > > > > that is seen in another Yogi=EF=BF=BDs mind. No=20 > > > > > > personal benefit or acquisition is > > > > > > expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > This effort marks the evolution and=20 > > > > > > progress of Nature and the important > > > > > > service that each human performs in this=20 > > > > > > process. > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider the task as outlined in the=20 > > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE : > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the process of lifting the whole=20 > > > > > > mass of "matter" up to the > > > > > > condition, nature and stature of CONSCIOUS=20 > > > > > > GOD-HOOD. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the "gift of mind" passed on by the=20 > > > > > > original and primordial Dhyanis > > > > > > to the host of Monads that are "ready."=20 > > > > > > Are they thus not encouraged to > > > > > > assume again the true "Gods" that they=20 > > > > > > were before they plunged > > > > > > voluntarily again into the experiences of=20 > > > > > > diversified material existence > > > > > > (consisting of those Monads which are now=20 > > > > > > entering the period and process > > > > > of > > > > > > a self-willed development of Manas) where=20 > > > > > > the "maya" of illusion (desires, > > > > > > feelings, passions - Kama makes all that=20 > > > > > > is real appear evanescent and > > > > > > seemingly incomprehensible. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears, when presented with an event=20 > > > > > > or a report, we ought to ask: > > > > > "What > > > > > > caused this ? What Laws are involved? Why=20 > > > > > > am I involved? What should be > > > > > > the ideal reaction?" -- In other words, we=20 > > > > > > have to universalize and > > > > > > impersonalize our concepts. One of the=20 > > > > > > best guides will be fund in the > > > > > > close study of PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS=20 > > > > > > translated by Mr. W. Q. Judge, and > > > > > > The VOICE OF THE SILENCE by H P B . These=20 > > > > > > cause us to delve into causes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shall we say: One of the problems is now=20 > > > > > > identified. How do we, as > > > > > > embodied > > > > > > Minds, forced to work in and use a brain=20 > > > > > > of matter [living Monads], view > > > > > the > > > > > > period and > > > > > > condition of our existence beyond the=20 > > > > > > birth and death of the personality > > > > > it > > > > > > is now > > > > > > living in.? It becomes clear that the=20 > > > > > > Personality of this present > > > > > existence > > > > > > has limits to its memories and views, but=20 > > > > > > no limits to its intuitive > > > > > > potentials. These it derives from the=20 > > > > > > immortal and universal fund of > > > > > > "wisdom" > > > > > > BUDDHI. Buddhi-Manas is then the "link." > > > > > > > > > > > > We may well ask ourselves: "How did I=20 > > > > > > derive the knowledge, character and > > > > > > capacities I have surrounding me, the=20 > > > > > > Perceiver and the Thinker, as my > > > > > > abilities and disabilities? We can=20 > > > > > > logically derive their source as having > > > > > > been fashioned in previous lives. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger=92s low PC-to-Phone call r= ates. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1149127125.951922.9383.aldavila.hst.terra.com.br,24860,200311271= 14101,20031127114101 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 31/05/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4774 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Thu Jun 01 07:00:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64518 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 14:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 14:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buraja.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.198) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 14:00:40 -0000 Received: from calomba.hst.terra.com.br (calomba.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.11]) by buraja.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5276422A40C5 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:00:05 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 514d9fbe617e46c8573d8f09ae621130 Received-SPF: pass (calomba.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.11; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (alambi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.180]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by calomba.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2012C31080D8 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:00:04 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:00:04 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.10.168.11 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: To Leon on Personalities X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=ziWRq3Vsf65xtANZh-8pekVxRVwXVkCz0R8shTuoWKSPTdsZPWsxEAI X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33856 Dear Leon, I do not have the time to read your message below, but I sense it it some k= ind of personal discussion.=20 I will be available to discuss Theosophy with you, Cass and everyone.=20 Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 17:05:35 EDT Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World To Leon on Personalities > Carlos (Aveline), >=20 > Sorry that you took what I wrote directly to Carlos Paterson so personall= y --=20 > as if it were written to you. Methinks you protest too much. Could it be= =20 > that its because you have been the worst offender in personality attacks = since=20 > you came onto this forum, and therefore jumped in so quick and cleverly t= o=20 > defend yourself -- by reversal (the kettle calling the pot black) -- usin= g the=20 > same method you are criticizing? It's no wonder that you had nothing to s= ay=20 > about the content of my letter that had a direct connection with the theo= sophy=20 > you pride yourself in being so knowledgeable about... Or, is Cass the onl= y one=20 > around here who really does what you say you do?=20 >=20 > Therefore, in my view your comments below are just a crock of self servin= g=20 > nonsense.=20 >=20 > But, since the shoe fits, and you stuck your foot in it publicly, I guess= =20 > you'll just have to wear it -- and bear it. ;-) >=20 > I suggest you reread my letter to Carlos P., and ask yourself if what you= =20 > criticized is an accurate assessment of what it was all about? As HPB (an= d=20 > Master JC) pointed out, its better to look into your own faults before cr= iticizing=20 > others by assuming they have the same faults. Yours is the perfect exampl= e=20 > of an emotional projection that reflects one's inner character for all to= see.=20 > (So, I guess this verifies everything I pointed out in response to your a= d=20 > hominem letters viciously attacking Daniel and others when you first show= ed up=20 > here.)=20 >=20 > If you had read it a bit more carefully -- you'd have seen that my letter= to=20 > Carlos Paterson was not a personality attack... Since it dealt directly w= ith=20 > his statements that indicated his ignorance of the true purpose of theoso= phy as=20 > well as a knowledge of what was taught in the Secret Doctrine, or that th= e=20 > later teachings of the pseudo theosophists (AB, CWL, AAB, etc.) were in d= irect=20 > opposition to the original theosophical teachings -- that were known as f= ar=20 > back as ancient Greece, if not thousands of years earlier.=20 >=20 > In fact, my letter was a necessary criticism of the wrong views of the=20 > student (not him, personally) by pointing out the correct view for the be= nefit of=20 > both him and all other beginning students of theosophy who might be liste= ning=20 > in to our dialogues. This also would include old students, who still are= =20 > unable to comprehend the deeper teachings, purposes and scope of theosoph= y as=20 > originally given out by the Masters... That certainly wasn't intended by = them to=20 > be a pecking ground for those more interested in historical accuracy and= =20 > personal beliefs, than understanding of the fundamental theosophical trut= hs and=20 > their application.=20 >=20 > In any event, I'm sure Carlos is capable of responding to my letter in=20 > response to his -- for himself. >=20 > Therefore, if there is anyone on this forum who speaks directly toward=20 > clarifying the truths of theosophical metaphysics, and exchanging views o= n=20 > theosophy, philosophy and their relationship to modern science that curre= ntly opposes=20 > them all (although not for long, as I see it) -- it's certainly not you. = Should=20 > anyone be interested in verifying this -- we'll let the record speak for= =20 > itself. >=20 > In conclusion, I suggest you start thinking about what you say before you= say=20 > it, speak to the issue and not to the personality, and begin practicing w= hat=20 > you preach. >=20 > Leon Maurer >=20 > In a message dated 5/31/06 11:11:22 AM, carlosaveline@terra.com.br writes= : >=20 >=20 > > Dear Leon, > >=20 > >=20 > > I see two main things in what you write below: > >=20 > > 1) You are indulging in discussing people, personalities, not the conte= nt of=20 > > the earch for truth. > >=20 > > 2) You are being judgmental of other people, people about whom you have= =20 > > scarce information. > >=20 > > If I remember it right, the goal of Theos-talk is not to discuss=20 > > personalities, and that is why I feel at home here, since, better than = gossips or=20 > > personal accusations, I prefer exchanging views of Philosophy and Theo= sophy. > >=20 > >=20 > > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >=20 > > C=F3pia: > >=20 > > Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 01:16:52 EDT > >=20 > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World THEOSOPHY - Is it possible? > >=20 > > > Carlos, > > > > > > I don't think you have really understood theosophy and why it was giv= en=20 > > out > > > when it was. Judging from your commentaries, I doubt that you have ev= en > > > studied any of the inner (occult) truths hidden in the secret Doctrin= e --=20 > > for > > > "intuitive students" to dig out for themselves. If you had, you could= =20 > > never say > > > any of the things you did about Blavatsky, the Secret Doctrine, or th= e > > > fundamental theosophy it teaches. So, from my point of view, it's app= arent=20 > > that > > > everything you did say is based solely on ignorance of those truths. = But=20 > > then, > > > it's understandable, since all newbees think they know enough to make= =20 > > judgments > > > about things they know very little of. :-) > > > > > > So, all you need to quaff your "thirst for more and more" is just to = dig a > > > little deeper -- which might (if you can handle it) take several year= s of > > > serious study of all the Secret Doctrine's inner depths along with al= l its > > > references to the ancient wisdom -- that hasn't changed one bit in mo= re=20 > > than 5,000 > > > years. All you need is your own intuition awakened through a proper=20 > > practice of > > > Rajah Yoga meditation. > > > > > > But, then, like most people today, you might want it all spoon fed to= you. > > > But that isn't going to happen... Since theosophy is only for those=20 > > willing to > > > study it through "their own self devised and self determined efforts.= " The > > > goal, of course, being; to attain individual "'self realization' so a= s to=20 > > be > > > better able to help and teach others." > > > > > > For one thing, theosophy has nothing to say about the world we experi= ence > > > outside of ourselves. And this includes all the miseries of our mater= ial=20 > > world > > > brought on by ignorance of the fundamental principles and of the inne= r=20 > > truths > > > of Cosmogenesis and its metaphysics and evolution, along with the tru= ths=20 > > of > > > reincarnation and karma. > > > > > > The theosophical teachings are timeless, and have never been concerne= d=20 > > with > > > the state of the world during this period of Kali Yuga that has to=20 > > inevitably > > > run it's course... But, is concerned only with our inner spiritual li= fe=20 > > and > > > our becoming a "nuclius of universal brotherhood." > > > > > > What has that to do with crop circles, UFO's, and other world changes= that > > > are purely material phenomena that are constantly changing and have n= o=20 > > real > > > relationship to the infinite inner life theosophy teaches us about (w= ith=20 > > the help > > > of the Voice of the Silence, The Bhagavad Gita, and Patanjali's Yoga > > > Aphorisms)? What more of a "revelation" do we want or need to become = a=20 > > true > > > theosophist? > > > > > > As for enlarging theosophy, how can a knowledge of "Portals" or the "= Mayan > > > calendar" have anything to do with its fundamental teachings? Anythin= g one > > > needs to know about those other things (we call them "side issues") a= re=20 > > well > > > covered in many other "Mystery Schools" that can easily be found on t= he=20 > > Internet. > > > But, why waste your time, when everything taught by those other > > > "revelations" are all in the Secret doctrine, its references, and oth= er=20 > > writings of HPB, > > > WQJ and some of their direct students like Perucker, Farthing, etc. -= -=20 > > whom I > > > suggest you also study before thinking you know anything about true=20 > > theosophy. > > > > > > > > > The real "duty" of theosophists isn't in "enlarging it's scope" -- bu= t in > > > practicing its teachings of altruism and universal brotherhood, and s= pread > > > broadcasting it to the outer world by the example of our own individu= al=20 > > and group > > > actions. Anything else is just adding onto the mistakes and distortio= ns=20 > > given > > > to it by the later pseudo theosophists who came after Blavatsky -- fr= om=20 > > Annie > > > Besant, through Charles Leadbeater, to Alice Bailey... All of whom tr= ied=20 > > to > > > turn it into another religion no better than all those that already e= xists=20 > > and > > > that have, if not led, not been able to prevent the world from follow= ing=20 > > its > > > present materialistic path to near destruction (which, incidentally, = is > > > absolutely necessary before the phoenix of a truer theosophical world= can=20 > > rise out of > > > its ashes). > > > > > > What makes you think that adding or enlarging theosophy, and turning = it=20 > > into > > > a new religion with new revelations (that only a Master can give) can= do=20 > > any > > > better? Besides, those revelations can only add to and further clarif= y=20 > > what > > > is already hidden under the intentionally "blinded" dead letter gloss= of=20 > > the > > > Secret doctrine. Better now to prepare ourselves with what is already > > > available so as to be able to assist the new 6th sub-racers coming in= this=20 > > Aquarian > > > age -- so they don't get caught up in the materialism of the past=20 > > Millennium. > > > > > > The reason HPB said the SD was only "fragments of the Secret doctrine= ",=20 > > was > > > that the Masters intentionally (and rightly so) held back the bulk of= the > > > occult teachings (such as those related to the "correlation of forces= " and=20 > > so > > > called "magic") that would give terrible power to the majority of thi= s=20 > > world > > > steeped in untrammeled greed and selfishness -- that no amount of=20 > > spiritual teaching > > > could change. In fact all the "new spiritual movements" have added no= thing > > > to the teachings of theosophy -- except, perhaps, to distort them bey= ond=20 > > all > > > recognition. Also, any sort of psychic teachings for purposes of atta= ining > > > individual "powers" have nothing to do with theosophy -- which teache= s=20 > > only a > > > Rajah-Jnana yoga leading to enlightenment or self realization. How an= yone > > > could call that "obsolete" is beyond all comprehension. Especially co= ming=20 > > from a > > > Brazilian -- where the Aquarian age children have been appearing sinc= e the > > > beginning of the new theosophical cycle in the last quarter of the 20= th=20 > > century. > > > > > > Since true theosophy, no matter when it originates, has no "dogma" (a= s it=20 > > is > > > not and could never be an "organized religion") -- any additions to i= ts > > > fundamental teachings by ignorant students, or those not yet initiate= d by=20 > > a Master, > > > could only make things worse for the world and the coming "indigo"=20 > > children. > > > > > > Therefore, the best advice I can give you, would be to seriously stud= y > > > theosophy and its ageless wisdom from its original sources -- before = even=20 > > thinking > > > of changing it into another hierarchical organizational entity concer= ned=20 > > only > > > with the state or conditions of the present world around us. Anyone w= ho=20 > > wants > > > to know about any of that can easily find it on Google -- without try= ing=20 > > to > > > make theosophy into something it was never intended by the Masters to= =20 > > become. > > > > > > Incidentally (for those ready and perceptive enough to see it) the Ma= sters > > > are still here... And if they wanted to add some new teaching to brin= g=20 > > theosophy > > > up to date in the 21st century, they would give it out to a chosen=20 > > messenger > > > -- like they've already done several times in this new cycle of the > > > theosophical movement since 1975. So, there already are "new theosoph= ical=20 > > teachings" > > > that go beyond the basic outline in the secret Doctrine -- without in= any=20 > > way > > > making those fundamental teachings less valuable or obsolete. > > > > > > Go look, and you'll find. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Leon Maurer > > > http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ > > > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.h= tml > > > > > > In a message dated 5/30/06 10:14:50 AM, carlos.paterson@gmail.com wri= tes: > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations by the answer... > > > > > > > > It is habitual to hear people saying that Blavatsky presented a=20 > > "profound" > > > > working, a "vast" one. I commonly see people saying that her writin= gs=20 > > were not > > > > developed for the time she lived, but for the future one, for the f= uture > > > > generation: and only this "future generation" would be capable of=20 > > understanding > > > > her discourse. > > > > > > > > But, there=B4s something strange... > > > > > > > > When I read affirmations like these: > > > > > > > > (1) "THEOSOPHY offers fundamental principles to help us understand = our > > > > world..." http://www.theosophysandiego.org/index.htm > > > > (2) "...These fundamental principles of theosophy have now taken th= eir=20 > > place > > > > and are demanding attention on the world stage." > > > > http://www.theosophysandiego.org/index.htm > > > > (3) "Theosophy embodies a view of the universe, including theories = on=20 > > the > > > > origin and mysteries ofthe universe." > > > > http://www3.igalaxy.net/~nick/theosophy/lessons01.htm > > > > (4) "Theosophy is a collection of religious and philosophical teach= ings=20 > > that > > > > view humanity as constantly evolving to a higher level." > > > > http://www3.igalaxy.net/~nick/theosophy/lessons01.htm > > > > > > > > I see a certain kind of "fanaticism" (sorry for the sincerity - it = is=20 > > only > > > > my opinion), as "nothing new" is viewed in the current Theosophical > > > > Literature. What I perceive is a literature that is a "repetitive=20 > > discourse". > > > > > > > > The impression is that the theosophical writings stopped in time, a= t the > > > > time of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (1831-1891) and at the "New (?)=20 > > Theosophy", > > > > with Charles Webster Leadbeater (1847-1934) and Annie Besant=20 > > (1847-1933). > > > > > > > > No person appears to review something new or actual, something that= =20 > > really > > > > approaches of themes like "Crop Circles", the "actual moment, as a= =20 > > transition > > > > one", the "UFO phenomena" and so on... and there=B4s much more. And= I=20 > > think: > > > > Where are the "fundamental principles" capable of treating subjects= like=20 > > these, > > > > helping us to understand our world, our MODERN one? > > > > > > > > My and our world is now and here! It didn=B4t stop (1831 - 1933), b= ut=20 > > flows. > > > > > > > > So, the affirmations (1) and (2), in my point of view is a fallacy,= as=20 > > my > > > > and our world is not being treated as it must be. > > > > > > > > Related to the (3) affirmation, there=B4s a simple and direct quest= ion:=20 > > What > > > > Misteries? The same and old discourses that we see at any corner, a= t any=20 > > book? > > > > I woud advise to not waste paper with a old fashioned talking! > > > > > > > > Finally, related to the (4) affirmation, I ask: > > > > > > > > Does Theosophy, as has been presented, really see humanity as const= anly > > > > evolving to a higher level? What level? At a level that stopped in = 1934=20 > > and is > > > > now being called "New Theosophy", with all its contradictions? > > > > > > > > Sorry, friends, for that aggressive disembosom. But I am tired and > > > > disappointed! > > > > > > > > I would like to see a "Lively Theosophy", not a New Theosophy! > > > > > > > > A Theosophy dealing with our modern world, with all its stress, wat= er=B4s > > > > disappearance, homosexuality, species=B4s extinction, growing=20 > > catastrophes, > > > > forthcoming of new diseases, the reason of the growing usage of dru= gs,=20 > > the > > > > Anti-Christ=B4s controversy, the UFO and so forth! These are the ma= rks of=20 > > our world and > > > > is a pity that the great part of people is talking about a dead wor= ld, a > > > > world of "letters" and about and unreal "Tibet". > > > > > > > > Do you know that Tibet is disappearing (perhaps disappeared), with = the > > > > chinese destroying its traditions? This is our world! > > > > > > > > What is the esoteric meaning of this fact? Would be the "transition= " of=20 > > the > > > > spirituality to the South America? > > > > > > > > Do you known that this is a normal converse at the new spiritual=20 > > movement! > > > > > > > > Have you listened about Portals or Maya=B4s calendar yet? What Theo= sophy=20 > > has > > > > to talk about it? > > > > > > > > Hello, we are in 2006! > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I see the Thesophy dying... dying in an out-of-date > > > > literature, holding itself in a dogmatism like the Church and Vatic= an. > > > > > > > > I don=B4t think that Blavatsky, Leadbeater, Annie Besant and others= have > > > > failed. On the contrary, I see them as a "start point" and is our d= uty=20 > > to enlarge > > > > its frontiers. > > > > > > > > Blavatsky said: > > > > > > > > "It is needless to explain that this book is not the Secret Doctrin= e in=20 > > its > > > > entirety, but a select number of fragments.." > > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-0-co.htm#preface > > > > > > > > And I see people looking for the Secret Doctrine (the "fragments") = as=20 > > the > > > > Final Revelation! No! It is just "fragments"! > > > > >=20 > > > > It is just 1%... and this undermost quantity of water is not capabl= e to > > > > avert our thirst! It is necessary more, much more... > > > > > > > > I see Blavatsky as one who dropped water in our lips, in our thirst= y=20 > > lips - > > > > as a stimulus! She didn=B4t wish to avoid our thirst, but increase = it; so=20 > > that > > > > we can understand that Water (The Truth) exists, is real and is the= only=20 > > one > > > > capable to satisfy our necessities. > > > > > > > > It is important to see that she didn=B4t reveal the river, so don= =B4t be a > > > > fanatic! > > > > > > > > Finding out the river is a task that she has given to us... and=20 > > certainly we > > > > will find it when our thirst be unsupportable! > > > > > > > > And the most important: > > > > > > > > The River must be full of life, pure and sunny... not a stagnant on= e, a > > > > prisoner of time and dogmatism. > > > > > > > > Whe must BE FREE! And at this point, Blavatsky was unique example! > > > > > > > > Thank you for all, > > > > > > > > Carlos Paterson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:28 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World THEOSOPHY - Is it possible? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/29/2006 7:39:00 PM Central Standard Time,=20 > > > > cspn@email.si > > > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > How the "Crop Circles" phenomena can be analised through the > > > > Theosophical > > > > > Teachings? > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably not, but that won't stop someone from trying. > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1149109599.580975.31987.tulear.hst.terra.com.br,22033,2003112711= 4101,20031127114101 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 31/05/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4774 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Thu Jun 01 07:26:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86258 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 14:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 14:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buniche.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.197) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 14:25:09 -0000 Received: from calivil.hst.terra.com.br (calivil.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.9]) by buniche.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4225C3DD83B1; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:24:37 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 99dffc976ef19f9a74be72c6968ec85e Received-SPF: pass (calivil.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.9 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.9; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (alambi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.180]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by calivil.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C656124805D; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:24:37 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:24:36 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.10.168.11 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.197 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: AXIS CHANGE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=XBqFckhBGHTh6aI2sqTFeQs4UM7P2lJdatzn_uE7V0kJFtVcUp73mmI X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33857 Dear Friends, A rare book by now is THE LAST CHANGE OF THE EARTH'S AXIS, by Fred G. Plummer, Isis Book Reprint, Ohio, 1994, 153 pp. Published in 1894 by the Narada Branch of the Theosophical Society, in Tacoma, it compiles most important information on the periodic changes in the Earth's Axis, from the viewpoints of science, myth, religion. It very much relies on "The Secret Doctrine", but it consistently enlarges the theme. I bought it years ago and its reading is most timely by now. I recently asked Richard Robb if it was available. He said it is not. Someone should think of making this book available once more to students, if no one can sell it now. Regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jun 01 07:30:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60479 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 14:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2006 14:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 14:30:15 -0000 Received: from [216.175.85.60] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FloAA-0000mN-2A; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:28:38 -0400 To: Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:28:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c68587$a6ddf100$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799fb6544c31c6f466a818543c6a161671350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA and INTI Venus = uppersun. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=V9Tld7HrCOsmMex4pDIaefnp5uj0lc_QnOpb2p3j2XTxNA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 33858 6/1/2006 6:47 AM Dear