From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon May 01 00:05:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64282 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 07:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 07:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52103.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.106) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 07:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24263 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 07:05:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20060501070504.24258.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 00:05:04 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 00:05:04 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Alleged Letter from H.P. Blavatsky to Emma Coulomb X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=SYD3JRTrdXwnJLC-1BdNZita_Hj-iis2sxVXn79l_-2lJr4u8g X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This certainly doesn't sound like HPB. The tone is too insipid for her. Cass danielhcaldwell wrote: Should the following let= ter be published in a future volume of the COLLECTED LETTERS OF H.P. BLAVATSKY=20 or should it be totally excluded/removed from this future volume? ---------------------------------------- Monday. My dear Mme. Coulomb, Last night, Sunday, I wanted to show my friends a phenomenon and=20 sent a cigarette tied up with my hair to be placed opposite Watson's=20 hotel in the coat-of-arms (under the Prince of Wales' statue) under=20 the horn of the Unicorn. Captain Maitland had himself chosen the=20 town and named the place. He spent 13 Rs. for a telegram to Police- Commissioner Grant, his brother-in-law. The latter went the moment=20 he received it and=97found NOTHING. It is a dead failure but I do not=20 believe it, for I saw it there clearly at 3 in the morning. I am=20 sorry for it for Captain Maitland is a Theosophist and spent money=20 over it. They want to tear the cigarette paper in two and keep one=20 half. And I will choose the same places with the exception of the=20 Prince's statue for our enemies might watch and see the cigarette=20 fall and destroy it. I enclose an envelope with a cigarette paper in=20 it. I will drop another half of a cigarette behind the Queen's head=20 where I dropped my hair the same day or Saturday. Is the hair still=20 there? and a cigarette still under the cover? Oh Dio Dio! What a=20 pity . . . . Your faithfully, H. P. B. (Note on the flyleaf) Make a half cigarette of this. Take care of=20 the edges. =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ coun= tries) for 2=A2/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon May 01 00:19:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15128 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 07:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 07:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 07:19:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 26256 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 07:18:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20060501071844.26254.qmail@web52107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 00:18:44 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 00:18:44 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World A question about the Secret Doctrine 1886 manuscript X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=tpYOvyaenP9zulNCHhRlaw2wKzgxDet03eghcx1mZwcDP_ZbJw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if this was pulled because it refuted Liberal Catholic thinking at the time of HPB's predecessors. I wonder what the karmic consequences are of withholding knowledge that was meant for humanity? Clearly this was sanctioned by the Masters prior to HPB's passing else it would not have been ready for printing. I am sure the Masters would not have had a change of heart after providing HPB with the contents. Me thinks something is rotten in the State of Denmark. Cass danielhcaldwell wrote: A question about the Secret Doctrine 1886 manuscript Feb 16, 2001 08:50 AM by Daniel Caldwell Just today I received an email asking: "What does the 1886 [Secret Doctrine] manuscript consist of exactly?" My answer is as follows: If you look at pp. 471 and 472 in HPB's COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. 14, you will get an overview of contents. The 1886 manuscript is NOT in HPB's handwriting but in the handwriting of Countess Wachtmeister, Mary Gebhard and (I believe) Mary Bates. In other words, these persons helped to make a copy of HPB's original handwritten manuscript and this copy H.P.B. then sent to India. This copy is the so-called Wurzburg manuscript. Basically the EXTANT MS is divided into three "parts" or "volumes". I. Introduction or Introductory (consisting of historical material like articles in SD III, 1897) II. Cosmogonic consisting of 7 stanzas and HPB commentaries III. Angthopogonic See the following web page for my "expanded" chart of Volume I: http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiitab.htm MOST of the material in Part I or Volume I of the MS is material that finally ended up in the published SD Volume III of 1897. See chart at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiitab.htm Part II or Volume II of the MS consists (as said above) of the translated Stanzas of Dzyan & HPB's commentaries. This material in Part II finally ended up in the published SD Volume One of 1888. I have taken a printed Vol. One (1888) edition and have underlined in red the text that also occurrs in the Wurzburg MSS. This would cover pp. 1-268 of the published version. Looking at the red underlined text, I would estimate that about 1/3 to 1/2 of the complete text (pp. 1-268) in the published volume one is ALSO in the earlier Wurzburg Vol. two version. Part III of the Wurzburg MSS is on the Anthropogonic material. This section is very fragmentary consisting of (if I recall correctly)of only a dozen pages or so of manuscript pages. You can find this material in Vol. 2 of the published 1888 edition. In both Parts I and II of the Wurzburg manuscript there are references to various appendices to both parts. The only extant appendice in Vol. I of the Wurzburg MSS is "Star- Angel Worship" which HPB apparently decided at a later date to take out and publish in Lucifer, July 1888. All the other appendices mentioned in the Wurzburg manuscript (and also mentioned in HPB's letters of 1885, 1886 and 1887) are MISSING from the EXTANT Wurzburg manuscript. Evidence indicates these appendices were sent to India attached to the rest of the manuscript but somehow --- in the intervening years before Jinarajadasa discovered at Benares the extant MS --- the appendices were "unattached" and lost. My research indicates that many of these "lost" appendices can be found in SD Vol III (1897). For more on the background of this manuscript see: "The Myth of the "Missing" Third Volume of The Secret Doctrine." http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm See especially Bertram Keightley's remarks about the RE-arrangment of the THREE volumes. THIS IS THE KEY TO EVERYTHING. Hope this helps. Daniel --------------------------------------- Daniel H. Caldwell danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES --------------------------------------- http://blavatskyarchives.com http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm http://blavatsky.cc http://theosophyonthe.net You can always access our main site by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc --------------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 01 00:21:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29230 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 07:21:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 07:21:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.90) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 07:21:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 07:19:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 07:19:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 07:19:56 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.73.160.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.22.234 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: HPB : "[Hartmann]...has turned our devoted Judge...into our enemy...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=dX9E_dpZiEV35cI_XGBrTH69G8rmlNI6On3okOIS7EzDWi3Qc-4mdfLv X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Could HPB have actually written in a letter of May 23, 1885 to V.S. Solovyoff the following: "[Franz Hartmann]...has turned our devoted [William Q.] Judge, when [Judge was] despatched [in 1884] by Olcott from Paris to=20 Adyar, into our enemy." Quoted from V.S. Solovyoff's A MODERN=20 PRIESTESS OF ISIS, p. 125. ?????????????? Is this text genuine HPB or a forgery? Is this entire letter a=20 forgery? Daniel http://hpb.cc From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon May 01 00:25:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9695 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 07:25:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 07:25:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52110.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.113) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 07:25:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 91940 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 07:25:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20060501072513.91938.qmail@web52110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 00:25:13 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 00:25:13 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB : "[Hartmann]...has turned our devoted Judge...into our enemy...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=NOzpNJIqjNmx6b7pFdJTMypIoaP17FsHsWGCEe6FJcZgHd4Tlg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where can I view the letter Daniel? Cass danielhcaldwell wrote: Could HPB have actually = written in a letter of May 23, 1885 to V.S. Solovyoff the following: "[Franz Hartmann]...has turned our devoted [William Q.] Judge, when [Judge was] despatched [in 1884] by Olcott from Paris to=20 Adyar, into our enemy." Quoted from V.S. Solovyoff's A MODERN=20 PRIESTESS OF ISIS, p. 125. ?????????????? Is this text genuine HPB or a forgery? Is this entire letter a=20 forgery? Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ coun= tries) for 2=A2/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon May 01 02:54:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25415 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 09:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 09:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 09:54:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 09:54:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 09:54:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 09:54:33 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 211.28.165.96 From: "Kathy" Subject: APOLLONIUS OF TYANA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=E1PKPVWQiMXR-0aReaDz41Ag8CXx3TL7cuWQhHVFic3T1ZtMPw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Hello Folks Did HPB state categorically that Jesus the Nazarene was the Christian Messiah as I have read conflicting reports, hinting at him being fictional, and at other times, actual??? Cass The following article was obtained from the World Wide Web at an index of articles by famed theosophist Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky of St. Petersburg, Russia, who lived during the 19th Century. For a complete listing of Madame Blavatsky's articles on the Web, check out this URL. http://www.blavatsky.org/blavatsky/hpbArticles.htm * In the "History of the Christian Religion to the year two hundred," by Charles B. Waite, A.M., announced and reviewed in the Banner of Light (Boston), we find portions of the work relating to the great thaumaturgist of the second century A.D. -- Apollonius of Tyana, the rival of whom had never appeared in the Roman Empire. "The time of which this volume takes special cognizance is divided into six periods, during the second of which, A.D. 80 to A.D. 120, is included the 'Age of Miracles,' the history of which will prove of interest to Spiritualists as a means of comparing the manifestations of unseen intelligences in our time with similar events of the days immediately following the introduction of Christianity. Apollonius Tyanaeus was the most remarkable character of that period, and witnessed the reign of a dozen Roman emperors. Before his birth, Proteus, an Egyptian god, appeared to his mother and announced that he was to be incarnated in the coming child. Following the directions given her in a dream, she went to a meadow to gather flowers. While there, a flock of swans formed a chorus around her, and, clapping their wings, sung in unison. While they were thus engaged, and the air was being fanned by a gentle zephyr, Apollonius was born." This is a legend which in days of old made of every remarkable character a "son of God" miraculously born of a virgin. And what follows is history. "In his youth he was a marvel of mental power and personal beauty, and found his greatest happiness in conversations with the disciples of Plato, Chrysippus and Aristotle. He ate nothing that had life, lived on fruits and the products of the earth; was an enthusiastic admirer and follower of Pythagoras, and as such maintained silence for five years. Wherever he went he reformed religious worship and performed wonderful acts. At feasts he astonished the guests by causing bread, fruits, vegetables and various dainties to appear at his bidding. Statues became animated with life, and bronze figures from their pedestals, took the position and performed the labors of servants. By the exercise of the same power dematerializaton occurred; gold and silver vessels, with their contents, disappeared; even the attendants vanished in an instant from sight. "At Rome, Apollonius was accused of treason. Brought to examination, the accuser came forward, unfolded his roll on which the accusation had been written, and was astounded to find it a perfect blank. "Meeting a funeral procession he said to the attendants, 'Set down the bier, and I will dry up the tears you are shedding for the maid.' He touched the young woman, uttered a few words, and the dead came to life. Being at Smyrna, a plague raged at Ephesus, and he was called thither. 'The journey must not be delayed,' he said, and had no sooner spoken the words than he was at Ephesus. "When nearly one hundred years old, he was brought before the Emperor at Rome, accused of being an enchanter. He was taken to prison. While there he was asked when he would be at liberty? 'To-morrow, if it depends on the judge; this instant, if it depends on myself.' Saying this, he drew his leg out of the fetters, and said, 'You see the liberty I enjoy.' He then replaced it in the fetters. "At the tribunal he was asked : 'Why do men call you a god?' "'Because,' said he, 'every man that is good is entitled to the appellation .' "'How could you foretell the plague at Ephesus?' "He replied : 'By living on a lighter diet than other men.' "His answers to these and other questions by his accusers exhibited such strength that the Emperor was much affected, and declared him acquitted of crime; but said he should detain him in order to hold a private conversation. He replied : 'You can detain my body, but not my soul; and, I will add, not even my body. Having uttered these words he vanished from the tribunal, and that same day met his friends at Puteoli, three days' journey from Rome. "The writings of Apollonius show him to have been a man of learning, with a consummate knowledge of human nature, imbued with noble sentiments and the principles of a profound philosophy. In an epistle to Valerius he says : "'There is no death of anything except in appearance; and so, also, there is no birth of anything except in appearance. That which passes over from essence into nature seems to be birth, and that which passes over from nature into essence seems, in like manner, to be death; though nothing really is originated, and nothing ever perishes; but only now comes into sight, and now vanishes. It appears by reason of the density of matter, and disappears by reason of the tenuity of essence; but is always the same, differing only in motion and condition.' "The highest tribute paid to Apollonius was by the Emperor Titus. The philosopher having written to him, soon after his accession, counselling moderation in his government, Titus replied : "'In my own name and in the name of my country I give you thanks, and will be mindful of those things. I have, indeed, taken Jerusalem, but you have captured me.' [Comment: Emperor Titus, who reigned 79-81 CE, was the son of Emperor Vespasian, both of whom were admirers and friends of Apollonius. It was Titus, as a general in Vespasian's army, who directed the successful campaign to capture Jerusalem, once and for all, for the Romans. Why would Titus mention Jerusalem in a comparison with Apollonius, if Apollonius were not in some way connected with the events in Jerusalem? If Apollonius met with Vespasian in Alexandria in 69, then Apollonius was in the vicinity of Jerusalem in the year prior to the big battle; and in the opinion of this writer, Apollonius was probably one of the leading advisors of the anti-Jewish forces there in 70 CE.] "The wonderful things done by Apollonius, thought to be miraculous, the source and producing cause of which Modern Spiritualism clearly reveals, were extensively believed in, in the second century, and hundreds of years subsequent; and by Christians as well as others. "Simon Magus was another prominent miracle-worker of the second century, and no one denied his power. Even Christians were forced to admit that he performed miracles. Allusion is made to him in the Acts of the Apostles, viii: 9-10. His fame was world-wide, his followers in every nation, and in Rome a statue was erected in his honor. He had frequent contests with Peter, what we in this day would call miracle-matches in order to determine which had the greater power. It is stated in 'The Acts of Peter and Paul' that Simon made a brazen serpent to move, stone statues to laugh, and himself to rise in the air; to which is added: 'as a set-off to this, Peter healed the sick by a word, caused the blind to see, &c.' Simon, being brought before Nero, changed his form : suddenly he became a child, then an old man; at other times a young man. 'And Nero, beholding this, supposed him to be the Son of God.' "In 'Recognitions,' a Petrine work of the early ages, an account is given of a public discussion between Peter and Simon Magus, which is reproduced in this volume. "Accounts of many other miracle-workers are given, showing most conclusively that the power by which they wrought was not confined to any one or to any number of persons, as the Christian world teaches, but that mediumistic gifts were then, as now, possessed by many. Statements quoted from the writers of the first two centuries of what took place will severely tax the credulity of the most credulous to believe, even in this era of marvels. Many of those accounts may be greatly exaggerated, but it is not reasonable to suppose that they are all sheer fabrications, with not a moiety of truth for their foundation; far less so with the revealments made to men since the advent of Modern Spiritualism. Some idea of the thoroughness with which every subject is dealt with in this volume may be formed when we state that in the index there are two hundred and thirteen references to passages relating to 'Jesus Christ'; from which, also, it may be justly inferred that what is given must be of great value to those seeking information that will enable them to determine whether Jesus was 'Man, Myth, or God.' 'The Origin and History of Christian Doctrines,' also 'The Origin and Establishment of the Authority of the Church of Rome over other Churches,' are fully shown, and much light thrown upon many obscure and disputed questions. In a word, it is impossible for us, without far exceeding the limits prescribed for this article, to render full justice to this very instructive book; but we think enough has been said to convince our readers that it is one of more than ordinary interest, and a desirable acquisition to the literature of this progressive age." Some writers tried to make Apollonius appear a legendary character, while pious Christians will persist in calling him an impostor. Were the existence of Jesus of Nazareth as well attested by history and he himself half as known to classical writers as was Apollonius no sceptic could doubt to-day the very being of such a man as the Son of Mary and Joseph. Apollonius of Tyana was the friend and correspondent of a Roman Empress [sic] and several Emperors, while of Jesus no more remained on the pages of history than as if his life had been written on the desert sands. His letter to Agbarus, the prince of Edessa, the authenticity of which is vouchsafed for by Eusebius alone -- the Baron Munchausen of the patristic hierarchy -- is called in the Evidences of Christianity "an attempt at forgery" even by Paley himself, whose robust faith accepts the most incredible stories. Apollonius, then, is a historical personage; while many even of the Apostolic Fathers themselves, placed before the scrutinizing eye of historical criticism, begin to flicker and many of them fade out and disappear like the "will-o'-the-wisp" or the ignis fatuus. Theosophist, June, 1881 * From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon May 01 03:54:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: leonmaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39474 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 10:54:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 10:54:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO agrimet3) (210.212.173.98) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 10:54:00 -0000 To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 210.212.173.98 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "leonmaurer" Subject: the file X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=6GK4COZg-UqveXPfJFUJAwQ2s3k3NpBDk_N8dFz8Cb1X1kemt1E X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi i send the details bye [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding777@online.de Mon May 01 04:06:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding777@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85384 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 11:06:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 11:06:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 11:06:39 -0000 Received: from [84.191.147.119] (helo=commandedb8b91) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1FaWEe06Zc-0006kJ; Mon, 01 May 2006 13:06:36 +0200 Message-ID: <004d01c66d0f$aac23870$3d5afea9@commandedb8b91> To: References: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:01:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:8c41512093bc3fb70dd89ac3e44c624f X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Robert Crosbie: "...Katherine Tingley...was appointed by William Q. Judge...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=257009773; y=uXVBuJxNgJ4Q3UmvsYET0LMtLP1oHaBhgcQBuPEs3YQlIcSAJsQxfEHo2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>he returned to Boston that he [Judge] had [appointed Tingley] and he denied it. . . ." C.F. Willard, The Canadian Theosophist, March 15, 1932, pp. 16-17. Quite clear, Crosbie suffered from Alzheimer! From ringding777@online.de Mon May 01 04:06:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding777@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53044 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from [84.191.147.119] (helo=commandedb8b91) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML25U-1FaWEp24pp-0008Oj; Mon, 01 May 2006 13:06:48 +0200 Message-ID: <005201c66d0f$b1b4f000$3d5afea9@commandedb8b91> To: References: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:08:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:8c41512093bc3fb70dd89ac3e44c624f X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB : "[Hartmann]...has turned our devoted Judge...into our enemy...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=257009773; y=-3WCbdgG8qD18WFtnvC5MyTBF1lDJQiD9H-yyrB3nd0yf5oxrpptLZR9Hg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Daniel, the letter might be genuine, but the content is not true. HPB felt for a short time into the trap, but later on she excused herself to Hartmann, when he visited her in Germany. It's in one of her letters. I'm quite sure you know that. So I opt to include it, but with reference to HPB's excuse to Hartmann. Best, Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Theos-World HPB : "[Hartmann]...has turned our devoted Judge...into our enemy...." Could HPB have actually written in a letter of May 23, 1885 to V.S. Solovyoff the following: "[Franz Hartmann]...has turned our devoted [William Q.] Judge, when [Judge was] despatched [in 1884] by Olcott from Paris to Adyar, into our enemy." Quoted from V.S. Solovyoff's A MODERN PRIESTESS OF ISIS, p. 125. ?????????????? Is this text genuine HPB or a forgery? Is this entire letter a forgery? Daniel http://hpb.cc Yahoo! Groups Links theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon May 01 04:21:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12233 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 11:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 11:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 11:21:13 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id r.3ac.2322008 (4418) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 07:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ac.2322008.3187490a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 07:20:42 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5026 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: channelling raises certain questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=2yUMzSstmOUtVTHZl4729hjHQNjgZNtxvy7Y0Gk1YUAr4JJW2g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/2006 12:52:59 AM Central Standard Time, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: "coadunate but not consubstantial" Can anyone explain what the hell that means?????? Chuck the Semi-Literate Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon May 01 04:29:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99620 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 11:28:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 11:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 11:28:52 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id r.3b8.1faeede (4418) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 07:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3b8.1faeede.31874ade@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 07:28:30 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5026 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB : "[Hartmann]...has turned our devoted Judge...into our ... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=-jH7E4DgOZ2XDUkxJYwijX2AnkvpGvyIyEWiCt-bbyDAdi7Brg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/2006 2:21:27 AM Central Standard Time, danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com writes: Is this text genuine HPB or a forgery? Is this entire letter a forgery? You're the expert! But I think if I remember, HPB did not think highly of Hartmann. Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:37:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10476 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.187.181) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.163.187.120] by n14.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.sc5.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79841 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 15:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 15:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bulimba.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.194) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 15:06:15 -0000 Received: from camenana.hst.terra.com.br (camenana.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.12]) by bulimba.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2842325080B8 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:06:04 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 5a032310e68a365932b96eb81c02cd8b Received-SPF: pass (camenana.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.12 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.12; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (aramara.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.182]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by camenana.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CDE4E00D9 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:06:04 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:06:03 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.194 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Re:Carlos: "Alice Cleather.." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=CAJ0_ATxZvNkXRVgNk98ekkLnd0uXigmC6SXg5HfDhm-FKR1BSIZ8-8 X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:04 -0000 Friends, I have a deep respect for G. de Purucker.=20 His Fraternization movement was really important.=20 =20 As to Alice Cleather, no one is perfect. Yet her first-hand testimony is mo= st powerful.=20 As to the "splitting" of the movement, yes, the necessary DIVERSITY takes t= he name of "splitting", if and when there is any centralized authoritaria= n attempt-to-control.=20 Carlos. De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:48:22 +0200 Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Carlos: "Alice Cleather was a direct discipl= e of HPB's....." > Mrs. Cleather's opinions and observations are not always trustforthy, esp= . if it comes to Judge and Tingley. > It seems that she had crystallized thought forms and hard-and-fast dogmat= ic ideas about the behaviour and work of a messenger of the Masters. > Only one example about KT: >=20 > =3D>special and mysterious person. She was then the directing=20 > intelligence behind the scenes of all he did, culminating in the=20 > fatal division in the T.S. which was then decided on.=20 >=20 > Although it is true that KT was the helping hand in the background for Be= sant's expulsion from the ES and the Boston convention, where the original = TS of 1875 split organizational away from its exoteric Headquarters in Adya= r, it seems to be wrong to regard this as "fatal". Cleather seems to interm= ix cause and effect. The split between the esoteric HQ in New York and the = exoteric HQ in Adyar was already executed by Olcott and Besant. They have c= reated facts which could not be ignored anymore. HPB and Masters stated sev= eral times that there may come circumstances to close sections or the whole= TS, when it takes a wrong course.=20 > It is most likely that the Masters themselves were involved in the "fatal= split" to save as much as possible. They were also instrumental active in = the outbreak of the Coloumb conspiracy, stopping Hartmann to kick the Colou= mbs out, before the scandal broke out.=20 >=20 > Let's hear what von Purucker says about this case: >=20 > "I regret exceedingly to have to state that in my judgment the Theosophic= al Movement in general has failed in the past properly to understand these = matters, my Brothers. Consequently, trouble and anxiety naturally came when= what we know as the split in the Society took place at H. P. B.'s death. I= do not desire to go into those painful details of past history which harro= w our feelings, especially in this new and promising era of fraternization = and attempted interorganizational brotherhood, for you and I and dear devot= ed hearts everywhere, with our Spiritual Leaders' help, are now trying to r= eunite these disjecta membra, the separated portions of our Theosophical bo= dy corporate commonly called the Theosophical Movement. I don't care to dwe= ll upon these things at present; but nevertheless the split occurred becaus= e a failure in the ranks came about. As soon as our beloved Katherine Tingl= ey took office at Brother Judge's death, slowly, little by little, she buil= ded up a new psychology; and when she in her turn passed on, the Theosophic= al world was in such mental condition that it was ready for this psychology= to become more widely current in the minds of Theosophists and to be bette= r understood." > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mess-con/mc-03.htm >=20 > More interesting may be this argument: >=20 > "Student -- Would it be right to say that the breaking up that happened t= o the Theosophical Society was an event in human nature and in times simila= r to the event that happened to Christianity? Is there any similarity betwe= en the two?=20 >=20 > G. de P. -- There is a similarity. This similarity exists in the fact of = the breaking into different bodies, into different sects -- because there a= ctually are sects in the theosophical movement today. We have to face the t= ruth. We must, Companions, keep theosophy pure, broad, deep, generous, and = ourselves be great-hearted and forgiving in our work. We must do Masters' w= ork!=20 >=20 > But there is this difference in the parallel which you have drawn between= Christianity and the modern theosophical movement. In our own theosophical= movement, comprising all these various Theosophical Societies today, the b= reak-up into these various Societies was deliberately engineered. Why? Beca= use the teachers knew that if certain ones were not called out, called apar= t -- I mean certain ones who could be depended upon -- they would be swallo= wed up, lost, in the welter of religious and psychical superstition which h= ad already begun to invade the theosophical movement before Judge died. Do = you understand me?" >=20 > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/dialogue/dial18.htm >=20 >=20 > The Masters allowed that the "fatal" split was engineered??? > Or is the split regarded by Judge, Tingley and Purucker rather as an ***e= mergency operation?*** > If so, KT's autocracy with absolute leadership would make sense and to be= regarded as the right administration for the right time as the only means = to defend against a mighty enemy. > Frank >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146350763.673925.8992.arrino.terra.com.br,7708,20031127114101,2= 0031127114101 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers?o: 4.4.00= /4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:37:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 36705 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88423 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 15:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 15:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bungunia.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.196) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 15:52:52 -0000 Received: from caliope.hst.terra.com.br (caliope.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.8]) by bungunia.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43383C7406A for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:52:41 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 95a3ac5f6ecd9fa7e2aabd1c4ae0f63b Received-SPF: pass (caliope.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.8; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (morone.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.178]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by caliope.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id D341A1BD405E for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:52:41 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:52:41 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: A. Cleather And W. Judge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=q-P-AYkxmFW4MEe0gw20-z3To3cbsXH1B8jEpQKRQDKvjo1-D1VBUwM X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Dear Friends, No one is perfect.=20 Everyone knows Alice Cleather did not understand William Judge well. She h= ad limited informations then.=20 =20 The most important thing as to Alice Cleather is her direct testimony about= HPB. Although Cleather was wrong about Judge, her testimony about HPB and the t= reason against her, a treason sponsored and lead by Leadbeater and Besant, = remains superb. Regards, Carlos.=20=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:25:44 -0000 Assunto:Theos-World Carlos: "Alice Cleather was a direct disciple of HPB=92= s....." > Carlos apparently places a great deal of stock in what Alice=20 > Cleather says. >=20 > He writes about "the testimony of Alice Cleather in her ASTONISHING=20 > book 'H.P. Blavatsky, a Great Betrayal' (published in 1922)." Caps=20 > added. >=20 > And he goes on to write: >=20 > "Alice Cleather was a direct disciple of HPB's and a member of the > Inner Group of the E.S...." >=20 > I totally agree that Mrs. Cleather provides a great deal of=20 > important information and insight concerning Mrs. Besant and Mr.=20 > Leadbeater. >=20 > But she also provides some interesting observations about Mr. Judge=20 > and Mrs. Tingley. >=20 > Below are her words: >=20 > "Alice L. Cleather Writes about Mr. Judge and Mrs. Tingley" >=20 > [Collated from Alice Leighton Cleather's two books titled H.P.=20 > Blavatsky: Her Life and Work for Humanity, Calcutta, Thacker,=20 > Spink & Co., 1922, pp. 3, 121-124; and H.P. Blavatsky As I Knew Her,=20 > Calcutta, Thacker, Spink & Co., 1923, p. 30]=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------- >=20 > . . . Mrs. Katherine Tingley. . . [was] a professional psychic and=20 > trance medium in New York. . . .For those of us who followed Mr.=20 > Judge in 1895, later discovered that about the time of H.P.B.'s=20 > death or soon after (the exact date is not known to me), Mr. Judge=20 > came under the influence of this woman, who is possessed of=20 > considerable hypnotic and other dangerous powers.=20 >=20 > He had consulted her, in her capacity as a medium, which led=20 > eventually to her obtaining a complete hold over him, and also over=20 > Theosophical friends whom he introduced to her, and to their=20 > accepting her as a Chela of the Masters; one for whom Mr. Judge=20 > believed he had been told to seek. She gave him "messages"=20 > purporting to be from Them, but subsequently I discovered that most - > if not all- of those which he gave out as having been received by=20 > him had come "through" Mrs. Tingley. The whole history of this=20 > extraordinary delusion is a long and complicated one, some of it=20 > being contained in the E.S. documents in my possession. . . .=20 >=20 > When I first met Mrs. Tingley she was known only to a few of Mr.=20 > Judge's intimates, but even they did not know the nature of the=20 > influence she exercised over him. He introduced me to her at the=20 > Boston Convention of 1895, a year before his death, as a very=20 > special and mysterious person. She was then the directing=20 > intelligence behind the scenes of all he did, culminating in the=20 > fatal division in the T.S. which was then decided on. On our return=20 > [from Boston] to New York he requested me to visit Mrs. Tingley and=20 > report to him everything she said. I was staying with Miss=20 > Katherine Hillard, the learned Theosophical writer, at the time, and=20 > she urged me not to go, telling me that Mrs. Tingley was a well- > known public medium, and expressed surprise that Mr. Judge should=20 > consult a person of that description. But my faith in Mr. Judge as=20 > an occultist who must know what he was doing, was then absolute; so=20 > I disregarded her warning and went.=20 >=20 > Mrs. Tingley then told me, among other things, that Mr. Judge was=20 > really the Master K.H.; and Mr. Judge did not discourage this idea=20 > when I gave him my report of the interview. It was not until I had=20 > worked under Mrs. Tingley for some time that I was forced to come to=20 > the conclusions I have briefly stated. . . .=20 >=20 > There can, however, be little doubt that she played a very large=20 > part through Mr. Judge, in the wrecking of the T.S., and that she=20 > had intended, and planned - probably, from the first - to obtain=20 > control of the American Section T.S. , of which Mr. Judge was=20 > President when she first met him. She was completely successful,=20 > and on Mr. Judge's death in 1896, took his place as Outer Head of=20 > the E.S.T. in America. At first she was announced as a=20 > mysterious "fellow-Chela" of Mr. Judge, a sort of Lohengrin who was=20 > to remain unknown for a year. But she speedily emerged from her=20 > obscurity, organised a spectacular "Crusade around the world," and=20 > proclaimed herself the "Leader and Official Head" of the entire=20 > Judge T.S. . . .=20 >=20 > On Mr. Judge's death in 1896, I was among those English members=20 > cabled for to attend the convention of New York when Mrs. Tingley=20 > was introduced to the E.S.T. Council as Mr. Judge's successor. She=20 > then asked me to accompany her on the tour round the world which=20 > passed through India in the winter of that year. Subsequently, in=20 > 1899, I and many others left Mrs. Tingley's Society on discovering=20 > that she was departing as far from H.P.B.'s original teachings as,=20 > on her side, Mrs. Besant was. To neither of these organisations was=20 > I, therefore, able to belong. Neither of their leaders inspired me=20 > with any confidence, as both were introducing ideas completely=20 > foreign to those promulgated by H.P.B. while professing to carrying=20 > on her work. An important instrument, which neither of them=20 > scrupled to use for this purpose, was the Esoteric School, which,=20 > owing to the pledge of secrecy, could be, and was so used without=20 > the knowledge of the T.S. and outsiders. . .=20 >=20 > It was under Mrs. Tingley's influence that Mr. Judge began, after=20 > H.P.B.'s death, the campaign in favour of Western Occultism which=20 > culminated in the announcement, in an E.S. paper (written by Mr.=20 > Judge, but dictated by Mrs. Tingley) deposing Mrs. Besant, that a=20 > school for the Revival of the Mysteries would be established in=20 > America. . . . >=20 > . . . It was she herself [Mrs. Tingley] who told me, personally,=20 > that she dictated the famous E.S.T. Circular headed "By Masters's=20 > Direction," and signed by Mr. Judge, deposing Mrs. Besant from her=20 > position as joint Outer Head. . . . Mr. Judge's circular was a=20 > characteristic Tingley counterstroke, and anyone familiar with her=20 > language and methods (as I subsequently became) can easily recognise=20 > it throughout. Mr. Judge's style was totally different and quite=20 > unmistakable. . . .=20 >=20 > It is regrettable that this paper, headed "By Master's Direction,"=20 > is still accepted as such by many, including the [United Lodge of=20 > Theosophists] group at Los Angeles, California. See their Magazine=20 > Theosophy, September,1922, p. 250, et seq. . . .=20 >=20 > . . . It did not take some of us very long to discover that Mrs.=20 > Tingley knew very little about Theosophy and nothing whatever about=20 > Occultism. We found that she was simply a clever opportunist, with=20 > a talent for organisation and showy activities on philanthropic and=20 > educational lines. She has established a successful colony at Point=20 > Loma, California; but all the work requiring a knowledge of H.P.B.'s=20 > Teachings is being done by students who acquired their knowledge=20 > under H.P.B. and who followed Mr. Judge in 1895. Most of them were=20 > E.S. members and one, Dr. Herbert Coryn, was a member of H.P.B.'s=20 > Inner Group. . . .=20 >=20 > In view of the unimpeachable facts concerning Mr. Judge and Mrs.=20 > Tingley it is to be deplored that there are groups of earnest=20 > Theosophists in America who endeavour to uphold the entirely=20 > indefensible theory that he was the occult equal of H.P.B. Some of=20 > them even go so far as to assert that he and she were sent out=20 > together by the Masters as Co-messengers! I need hardly add that=20 > this claim is not only impossible and untenable, but has no shadow=20 > of justification in fact. Mr. Judge began his occult career at the=20 > same time as Colonel Olcott, both becoming H.P.B.'s pledged pupils=20 > in 1874. Both men served well and faithfully during H.P.B.'s life- > time, but as soon as she was withdrawn they both failed in different=20 > ways. In Mr. Judge's case his considerable knowledge of occultism=20 > rendered his easy deception by an ordinary professional psychic,=20 > devoid of real occult knowledge, the more surprising for he was=20 > always warning students against the dangers of psychism. Such=20 > failures only serve to illustrate the enormous difficulties that=20 > beset the chela's path in the Kali Yuga, and the magnitude of=20 > Damodar's achievement in winning through. As H.P.B. clearly=20 > indicated in her Letter of 1890, he was the one full success in the=20 > whole history of the T.S.; and he was an Aryan, not a Westerner.=20 >=20 > The loss of Mr. Judge's occult judgment after his Teacher's death=20 > was nowhere more clearly shown than in his unquestioned acceptance=20 > of Mrs. Tingley's ignorant assertion that Western Occultism is the=20 > essence of all other systems; for H.P.B. consistently taught and=20 > demonstrated that in the East and not in the West is the fountain=20 > head. . . .This was one of the radical departures from H.P.B.'s=20 > teachings made at that time as much by Mr. Judge as by Mrs.=20 > Besant. . . .=20 > ---------------------------------------------- >=20 > I should state here that the research and findings of the late=20 > Walter A. Carrithers, Jr. (a strong defender of H.P.B.) also=20 > confirms much of what Mrs. Cleathers writes above. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146331585.785062.19749.aldavila.hst.terra.com.br,11952,Des15,De= s15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:37:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 50876 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79617 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 15:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 15:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO burta.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.199) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 15:30:08 -0000 Received: from fomboni.hst.terra.com.br (fomboni.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.15]) by burta.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A784B78062 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:29:44 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: beb27a078ee3469ec27ed9f5a7f72df9 Received-SPF: pass (fomboni.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.15 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.15; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (araluen.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.183]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by fomboni.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26351090090 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:29:44 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:29:44 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Theosophists And Jesuits X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=VA2wGm3LI55vYtop6dtAeFmL96ukOeT5V1u-MXAHFmeSQ-Ab8X93UTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:05 -0000 Friends,=20 I agree with much of what Sufilight wrote below.=20 I will comment only a small part of his posting.=20 He wrote:=20=20 "The split between W. Q. Judge and Annie Besant. It happened due to karma. = The Masters could easily have intervened much more - and also intervened th= rough Blavatsky before she died or by themselves have pointed much more cle= arly out who, their chosen successor and agent was. They did not do that. T= he reason was, that none was suitable or spiritually needed because of the collective karma of the TS and the planet etc... The death of W. Q. = Judge was part of the karmic situation, because he somehow - well somehow -= lacked the needed understanding of the "Jesuits" and their dangerous activ= ities to the society. (Please do not take the word Jesuits too litterally, = when I use it. Yet they are also involved.)" I believe, friends, that Judge was taken out of the physical scenario in 1= 896 for the same reasons HPB came out of it in 1891. The higher and pioneer= level of work could not stay "here" any longer.=20 Yet surviving HPB for 5 years, Judge left the seeds of loyalty to Blavatsky= /Masters. These seeds are now gradually developing in both Pasadena TS, t= he ULT, and other groups/students who appreciate Judge's work. (Some of th= em inside the Adyar TS.) As to Sufilight's approach on the Jesuits problem, it does make a lot of se= nse, in my view.=20 Best regards, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:37:15 +0200 Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Theosophists Are No Jesuits, and the TS spli= ts > Hallo all, >=20 > My views are: >=20 > 1. Jesutis, the Vatican and The Christian Coalition >=20 > Aehmmm... > There is no religion higher than the Truth. > Not, that we need to disagree, but... >=20 > Chuck wrote: > " To the best of my knowledge Daniel is > not now, nor ever has been an agent of either the Jesuits or Opus Dei." >=20 > Sufilight answers: > Allow me say this in a wellmeant and friendly manner: >=20 > I sometimes wonder what group of "heretical agents" you are belonging to= =20 > Chuck? :-) > I find it to be true, that When one is getting influenced by The Christia= n=20 > Coalition, > then the "Jesuits" are not far behind. The question is just how much one = is=20 > being influenced. > Not only dead-letters in that. >=20 > For instance: > Merely speculating about what sort of group Daniel Caldwell belong to, > will not help us much. > I say, that Daniels website badly needs something to help the various=20 > "compassionate > heretical groups" social situation, when we consider the "jesutical"=20 > bible-agenda. > Right now I see that the situation is deterioration fast, and those begin= ner=20 > seekers, scholars, > christian scholars figthing consciously or unconsciously against dead-let= ter=20 > insanity of the Bible, > (a book filled with faults, mistranslations and mistakes), are really=20 > struggling when going through > Daniel Caldwells website. > I do not find myself speculating about this. >=20 > (Even John De Saints has trouble, with his angle or angel of presentation= ,=20 > although a lot of info > on the Jesutis are available there. But Daniel's angle on the jesuits=20 > really leaves > the Seekers in the dark. > - And permit me a few words of advice to the theosophical webmasters: > Please seek to makes the text on each page less wide, only about=20 > half-screen-size would do > much better. It helps the beginner seekers to read the text more easily.= =20 > This is basic knowledge > about web-usability. ) >=20 >=20 > So no worries about The Christian Coalition and related groups ??? > "When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christian= s=20 > and Jews > into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media=20 > challenged me. > `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? > How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian value= s=20 > are > better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' > My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" > -from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218. >=20 > Blavatsky was quite right. > How much did W. Q. Judge, K. Tingley, Purucker, Crosbie, Annie Besant and= =20 > Leadbeater etc... write > about the Jesuits when compared to H. P. Blavatsky. > So Please, do not underestimate the old woman, named HPB! > Not that any of you do, but just try absorb the point I am throwing at yo= u. >=20 >=20 > 2. Too much specualation and too much intuition bashing >=20 > Bruce wrote in a recent email here at Theos-talk: > "The enemies do not need to prove anything, they > need only keep the allegations alive." >=20 > I agree. We ever learn from our enemies. > The enemies do often stimulate speculation on behalf of the stimulation o= f=20 > the intuition. > Debates here at Theos-talk, which only seek to provoke speculation and no= t=20 > the > opening up of the intuition, are sometimes equal to keeping the Seekers d= own=20 > and away > from spiritual development. The reader could ponder on this. >=20 > Just try to count how many times Blavatsky mentioned the word Jesuit or=20 > Jesuits or jesuitical. >=20 >=20 > 3. The Third Volume of the Secret Doctrine > The third volume was printed by Annie Besant in the physical and NOT by=20 > Blavatsky. > Annie Besants level of wisdom in 1897 was not the same as Blavatsky's in= =20 > 1891. > Blavatsky would never use Esoteric Section material in The Secret Doctrin= e=20 > volume III > to such a degree. > The reason being, that this would certainly not be compassionate to publi= sh=20 > the same or > nearly the 100% same content to a totally different audience. Well, unles= s a=20 > higher purpose > justified it. This purpose, I somehow havn't discovered yet. > The volumes I and II of The Secret Doctrine were both edited and changed = in=20 > their content > up until even few weeks before their publication. Saying that volume III = of=20 > The Secret Doctrine, > didn't need at least the same wise and careful changes I hold to be a=20 > quesitonable and in fact > a irresponsible view. > And I think we should let it all rest there. >=20 > 4. The split between W. Q. Judge and Annie Besant. > It happened due to karma. The Masters could easily have intervened much=20 > more - and > also intervened through Blavatsky before she died or by themselves have=20 > pointed much more clearly out who, > their chosen successor and agent was. > They did not do that. The reason was, that none was suitable or spiritual= ly=20 > needed because > of the collective karma of the TS and the planet etc... > The death of W. Q. Judge was part of the karmic situation, because he=20 > somehow > - well somehow - lacked the needed > understanding of the "Jesuits" and their dangerous activities to the=20 > society. (Please do > not take the word Jesuits too litterally, when I use it. Yet they are als= o=20 > involved.) >=20 > These were my views. >=20 >=20 > from > M. Sufilight with peace and love... >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From:=20 > To:=20 > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:40 AM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophists Are No Jesuits >=20 >=20 > > > > In a message dated 4/27/2006 3:10:10 PM Central Standard Time, > > carlosaveline@terra.com.br writes: > > > > Perhaps in the Vatican the system is different and some people get=20 > > nervous > > to see diversity among sincere students. > > > > > > > > I think it would be easier to take some of these arguments seriously if= =20 > > you > > would stop referring to the Vatican. To the best of my knowledge Daniel= =20 > > is > > not now, nor ever has been an agent of either the Jesuits or Opus Dei. > > > > It is rather confusing the issue. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146396760.644549.978.aldavila.hst.terra.com.br,9048,20031127114= 101,20031127114101 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:37:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7158 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:12 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n16.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25756 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 15:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 15:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO burta.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.199) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 15:45:54 -0000 Received: from moroto.terra.com.br (moroto.terra.com.br [200.176.10.5]) by burta.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id D106E4B78069 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:45:49 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 801e213381f3bddc35987b6ce487256f Received-SPF: pass (moroto.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.5; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (bengazi.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.176]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by moroto.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id C476B14CC02C for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:45:49 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:45:49 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Re: Inner Teachings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=HYwb4vo9zb4fte24CxGXksOpgFAT5OU_fp-KuRP4cb3MIcAMJc_XKgs X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:05 -0000 Frank, Can you tell us more about the Rabbis' connection in this, regarding Masonr= y and France?=20 I have deep respect and admiration for the Jewish wisdom tradition, which i= s very much present in HPB's writings.=20 I also have a deep respect for the Jewish (and Arab, and German) people, bu= t I can see that some Rabbis do work just like some Christians, as some Hin= dus and some Islamists, in a clearly anti-Brotherhood direction.=20 (You know that the origin of the "theosophical masonry" is France.)=20 Best regards, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:48:12 +0200 Assunto:Re: Theos-World Inner Teachings > Carlos, I agree with what you say here. > In Besant's organization not only blind belief in=20 > the alleged second coming of Christ was a must,=20 > but also to accept the King of England as their=20 > highest authority. > All these perversions are not coming from HPB's=20 > spiritual Masters, but from wordly rabbis in=20 > Paris. Papus, Solovyov and Steiner were also=20 > influenced from this dark French masonic craft. > One of their lies, which was promoted by Steiner,=20 > was that the kali yuga has ended in 1897. The=20 > background of this perversion is of course to lull=20 > to sleep the warriors of the white side. >=20 > Frank >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "carlosaveline"=20 > To: "theos-talk"=20 > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:57 PM > Subject: Theos-World Inner Teachings >=20 >=20 > Dear Friends, Frank, >=20 > The tradition of "private circulation of texts",=20 > of inner or esoteric teachings, dates from=20 > ancient India, Greece, Egypt. And appears in the=20 > NT, when Jesus subscribes such a policy. >=20 > It has a very simple purpose: to work with people=20 > who are willing to take the teachings=20 > seriously -- as the material can only be useful=20 > to those who will TRY to apply it in their lives. >=20 > In this, Theosophy coincides with William James'=20 > philosophy, "Pragmatism". >=20 > Ideas make sense inasmuch they enhance life and=20 > preserve the autonomy of living beings. >=20 > So the practical purpose of a school, be it=20 > exoteric or otherwise, is to give people elements=20 > to change their lives for the better -- without=20 > extracting blind obedience vows as the ones A.=20 > Besant's school and her Liberal Catholic Church=20 > did. >=20 > In AB's E.S., in 1912, the vow taken by members=20 > included faith in the Second Coming of the=20 > Christ.... through Krishnamurti. This is the "eye=20 > doctrine". >=20 > The commitment made at lower levels of=20 > consciousness becomes a prisoner of words and --=20 > of outer "authority". >=20 > Carlos. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >=20 > C=F3pia: >=20 > Data:Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:39:36 +0200 >=20 > Assunto:Re: Theos-World What is sauce for the=20 > goose is sauce for the gander?? >=20 > > Daniel, I do not think that HPB meant that her > > esoteric information should be held private up=20 > > to > > the end of the seventh round. > > Withholding of esoteric information is only=20 > > meant > > for a certain period of time, when the general > > mankind has developed a little bit to understand > > it. > > > > One period of time was over in 1897. It is not > > impossible that Annie Besant was right to=20 > > publish > > some of the E.S. information. > > Another question would be if she did it well, > > including "correct" true information in the vol. > > III if compared with the "Wurzburg" manuscript > > (which I personally believe not) > > And we have not the original manuscript (except > > the Wurzburg parts), the bulk of it which AB, > > according to Boris de Zirkoff, has had in her > > hands and went with it to an unknown place. > > > > Perhaps in that connection it might be of=20 > > interest > > that the German branch which HPB founded here=20 > > was > > named TS Germania (and not TS Germany). > > The Germania is the goddess which protects=20 > > Germany > > and stands for her unity (which the Jesuits try=20 > > to > > destroy, as HPB writes elsewhere, as the SJ were > > founded with the goal to dissiptae her, which=20 > > they > > did in two 30 years wars (resulting in the > > so-called "peace treaties" of Westfalia and of > > Versailles and its dissipations). > > From all bombed towns during WWII Wurzburg was > > relatively the most destroyed city: 96 per cent=20 > > of > > Wurzburg's houses were destroyed. > > The German army signed the surrender on White > > Lotus Day, May 8th, the day of HPB's death. It=20 > > was > > also the death of Germany and was dissipated=20 > > anew. > > > > We are not able to decide whether Besant was=20 > > right > > or wrong so long as we do not have and=20 > > understand > > the esoteric rules if and when which document or > > information can or must be published. > > Reading the introduction of the late W. Emmett > > Small of von Purucker's E.S. Instructions, one=20 > > can > > asume that such rules exists in the inner world. > > > > The Buddha was accused of having make public the > > esoteric doctrines of the Brahmans, also Jesus=20 > > was > > accused of making public the esoteric doctrines=20 > > of > > the Essenes. Also Katherine Tingley was accused, > > when she gave out information of the Lodge's=20 > > work > > over messengers coming from Shamballa (rejected=20 > > by > > the ULT as Crosbie accepted only HPB and WQJ as > > messengers). > > Also von Purucker was accused, when in 1929 he > > began to give his pupils new esoteric tenets, > > which certainly HPB also knew (as the doctrine=20 > > of > > the inner and outer rounds, etc., rejected by=20 > > the > > ULT). > > Frank > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "danielhcaldwell" > > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:15 PM > > Subject: Theos-World What is sauce for the goose > > is sauce for the gander?? > > > > > > What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the > > gander?? > > > > When I publicly posted some extracts from one of > > HPB's Esoteric > > Instructions, you wrote me that you strongly > > protested my posting of > > these HPB quotations from an "esoteric" or > > "private" document. > > > > You also suggested that such "posting" did an > > "injustice" to the > > Mahatmas. > > > > Therefore I assume that if other writers besides > > me did something > > similar that you would ALSO object if not > > "protest" to a quoting of > > this esoteric material, right? > > > > If your answer is yes, then I call your=20 > > attention > > to the following: > > > > Read more at: > > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/sauceforthegoose.htm > > > > Daniel > > http://hpb.cc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam=20 > > Inteligente Terra. > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosav= eline&_l=3D1,1146256879.254613.17111.arrino.terra.com.br,6671,Des15,Des15 > > > > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail=20 > > Protegido Terra. > > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em=20 > > 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.00/4751 > > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra:=20 > > http://mail.terra.com.br/ >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been=20 > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 > theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146332767.657910.4246.ambrose.hst.terra.com.br,9566,Des15,Des15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:37:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 94353 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65314 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 16:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 16:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bundure.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.195) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 16:17:31 -0000 Received: from calomba.hst.terra.com.br (calomba.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.11]) by bundure.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AFF9A01EF for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:16:27 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 6da29669582710d77d87ecfee46e3a35 Received-SPF: pass (calomba.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.11; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (aramara.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.182]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by calomba.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3E5310805A for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:16:27 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:16:27 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.195 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: CALDWELL & JESUITS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=isuRDkEiD_82OilnTIcJ88VSYjki3eNRWtTPwITlHb2UgSJZNd_zG_Y X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Friends, I am curious to see whether Daniel Caldwell will answer to these lines from= Sufilight:=20 "The website has important and valuable information. But it doesn't tell u= s much about Blavatsky's views on the Jesuits, does it? And what are your = views about the Jesuits? I can't really find them on this website although= you sort of talk positively about Blavatsky." (see the whole text below)= .=20 It is also interesting to add one fact. Paul Johnson's testimony about Dan= iel Caldwell -- according to which Daniel is a internet troller, etc. -- se= ems to see in Caldwell's methods the same Jesuitical tactics as denounced b= y H.P.B. and the Masters, that is, deceiving, lying, etc.=20 I still hope Daniel will clarify all of this to us. I am not judging or com= demning him.=20 Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:20:32 +0200 Assunto:Re: Theos-World Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 1831-1891: Chronological = Review of Events in Her Life > Yeah... > Very well. The website has important and valuable information. > But it doesn't tell us much about Blavatsky's views on the Jesuits, does = it? > And what are your views about the Jesuits? > I can't really find them on this website although you sort of talk=20 > positively about Blavatsky. >=20 >=20 > from > M. Sufilight with peace and love... >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "danielhcaldwell"=20 > To:=20 > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:37 AM > Subject: Theos-World Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 1831-1891: Chronological=20 > Review of Events in Her Life >=20 >=20 > > Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 1831-1891: > > Chronological Review of Events in Her Life > > > > A helpful overview of HPB's life with > > links to many important documents and sources. > > > > Daniel > > http://blavatskyarchives.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146388570.965162.23775.sotovento.hst.terra.com.br,4107,Des15,De= s15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:38:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28587 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29076 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bulimba.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.194) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:05:08 -0000 Received: from moroto.terra.com.br (moroto.terra.com.br [200.176.10.5]) by bulimba.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5519825081A2 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:04:32 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: abac81108af9f74f639f653adf1ddab8 Received-SPF: pass (moroto.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.5; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (aramara.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.182]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by moroto.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468DD14CC052; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:04:32 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 14:04:32 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" Cc: "carlosaveline" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.194 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: A. CLEATHER & THE THIRD VOLUME X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=2rl9zhHb0h9F4benOYnnpD0RG75n_RFBFXd79ULEtLugfQ4CIK5m1W8 X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo =20 ALICE CLEATHER AND ARCHIBALD KEIGHTLEY, ON=20 =20 THE THIRD VOLUME OF =93THE SECRET DOCTRINE=94 =20 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo =20 =20 Dear Friends,=20 =20 Soon after the publication in 1888 of the two first volumes of =93The Secre= t Doctrine=94, by H. P. Blavatsky, Dr. Archibald Keightley, who had helped= H.P.B. finish the originals of the work, had this to say:=20=20 =20 =93The third volume of =91The Secret Doctrine=94 is in manuscript ready to = be given to the printers. It will consist mainly of a series of sketches of= the great occultists of all ages, and is a most wonderful and fascinating = work. The fourth volume, which is to be largely hints on the subject of pra= ctical occultism, has been outlined, but not yet written. It will demonstra= te what occultism really is ...=94 (1)=20 =20 This statement add extra strength to H.P.B.=92s own declarations in the sa= me direction. Yet, in the last few lines of the second volume of =93The S= ecret Doctrine=94, the =93Old Lady=94 announced that the actual publication= or not of volumes III and IV would =93entirely depend=94 on the reception = given to volume I and II by Theosophists and Mystics.=20 =20 Such a reception seems to have not been good enough.=20 =20 Volumes III and IV were destroyed or =93withdrawn=94 by the author (or rat= her Authors), as suggested in the Preface of =93The Secret Doctrine=94, fac= simile edition published in 1947 by =93The Theosophy Co.=94 HPB left the p= hysical scenario in May 1891 through an unexpected death out of an influenz= a with respiratory complications. =20 Yet in 1897 Mrs. Annie Besant came up her own =93third volume=94, an ilegi= mate volume. In a significant step ahead, the very Adyar Theosophical Soci= ety later abandoned Besant=92s edition of =93The Secret Doctrine=94.=20 =20 On Besant=92s =93third volume=94, we have the revealing testimony of Mrs. A= lice Cleather, a disciple of Blavatsky=92s who stayed away from power polit= ics and loyal to her teacher.=20=20 =20 After mentioning that A. Besant claimed to have been in charge of =93safeg= uarding=94 H.P.B=92s texts for the third volume, Mrs. Alice Cleather added= :=20 =20 =93Those who were responsible for the so-called Volume III, had a strange = and unusual conception of the meaning of the word =91safeguarding=92. It so= happens that while it was being set up I was able actually to peruse one o= r two of the familiar long foolscap sheets which H.P.B. always covered wi= th her small fine handwriting. They were mutilated almost beyond recognit= ion, few of her sentences remaining intact ; and there were =91corrections= =92 not only in the handwritings of the editors, Mrs. Besant and Mr. Mead, = but also in that of others which I was able to identify. More than this I = can not say without abusing confidence ; but the wrong done to my Teacher= compels me to say this much.=94 (2) = = = =20 =20 Alice Cleather gives numerous evidences of Annie Besant=92s tampering with = =93The Secret Doctrine=94.=20 =20 In 1979 the Adyar Theosophical Society finally adopted a legitimate edition= of the work, prepared by Mr. Boris de Zirkoff.=20 =20 Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline=20 =20 NOTES: =20 (1) Archibald Keightley=92s statements are in an interview given to the New= York =93Times=94 and reproduced by =93The Theosophist=94 in July 1889 =96 = almost two years before H.P.B.=92s death. It was later published by THEOSOP= HY magazine, Los Angeles, August 1950, pp. 436-444. It is from THEOSOPHY t= hat I quote these words. See especially p. 439.=20=20 =20 (2) =93H.P. Blavatsky, a Great Betrayal=94, by Alice Leighton Cleather, Tha= cker, Spink & Co., Calcutta, 1922, republished under the auspices of the = H.P.B. Lending Library, c/o M. Freeman, Canada, 96 pp., see p. 75.=20 =20 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo =20 =20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:11:42 -0000 Assunto:Theos-World Carlos on the 3rd Volume of THE SECRET DOCTRINE > Carlos writes in part: >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > That may explain the DISAPPEARANCE of volumes III and IV. . . . >=20 > As to the UTTER LACK of legitimacy of the volume III as published by=20 > Annie Besant 1898, is it amply demonstrated by Boris de Zirkoff in=20 > his introduction to the Volume XIV of HPB's "Collected Writings".... >=20 > These were texts NOT ORIGINALLY DESTINED to belong to "The Secret=20 > Doctrine". . . . >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Caps added. >=20 > Unfortunately, the above statements of Carlos show an almost total > lack of understanding regarding Volume III. >=20 > I go over much of this in great detail in my essay to be found at: >=20 > http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm >=20 > In regards to Carlos' remarks about "Boris de Zirkoff in his=20 > introduction to the Volume XIV of HPB's 'Collected Writings'",=20 > although Mr. de Zirkoff's Introduction contains a great deal of=20 > valuable material, unfortunately there are a good number of=20 > misstatements and certain confusions in Boris' Introduction.=20 > Unfortunately Mr. de Zirkoff's Historical Introduction to the Adyar=20 > edition of the SD ALSO contains certain confusions concerning the=20 > writing of the SD in 1886-1887 and about Volume III. >=20 > [Although all students of HPB's writings owe Mr. de Zirkoff a great=20 > deal of gratitude for all of his hard work covering many decades on=20 > the compiling, etc. of HPB's writings, the fact remains that there=20 > are various statements by Mr. de Zirkoff on a variety of subjects=20 > which contain mistakes and confusion. I refer the reader to two=20 > examples of this that I have documented and placed on the web: >=20 > (1) Some Observations on the Claims made by Boris de Zirkoff and=20 > others about Madame Blavatsky's THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY > http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/199901/tt00107.html >=20 > (2) Concerning his statements about the E.S. Instructions > http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbes1extract.htm=20 >=20 > I interject here that I am very mindful of the fact that we stand on=20 > the shoulders of those whom we criticize, that is, their work helps=20 > us maybe to see better and farther and without their intitial effort=20 > we would possibly not have a better undertstanding, etc.] >=20 > A careful reading of my essay on Vol. III of the SD will help to=20 > clarify some of this confusion but I see that I need to write a=20 > second essay going over all of Mr. de Zirkoff's material and showing=20 > chapter and line where the confusion is. >=20 > Concerning Carlos' statement which reads: >=20 > "These [that is, the material in Volume III excluding the E.S.=20 > material???] were texts NOT ORIGINALLY DESTINED to belong to 'The=20 > Secret Doctrine'."=20 >=20 > It can be documented thru the Wurzburg manauscript and other=20 > material that much of the material in the published 1897 3rd volume=20 > was in HPB's original 1886 manuscript of Volume I of the Secret=20 > Doctrine. >=20 > So contrary to what Carlos is stating, it can be shown that much of=20 > the text of the 1897 3rd volume was definitely ORIGINALLY DESTINED=20 > to belong to THE SECRET DOCTRINE. >=20 > The Wurzburg manuscript by itself clearly shows this is the case. >=20 > As time permits in the next year, I will try to enlarge and expand=20 > my original essay to show even more of this.=20 >=20 > Of course, I am not really surprised to find such statements by=20 > Carlos since apparently he doesn't even know what the basic thesis=20 > of my essay is about. >=20 > Daniel > http://hpb.cc >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146334439.537939.31015.aldavila.hst.terra.com.br,6498,Des15,Des= 15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:39:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 46439 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:39:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48499 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 14:58:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 14:58:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buniche.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.197) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 14:58:18 -0000 Received: from licasi.terra.com.br (licasi.terra.com.br [200.176.10.3]) by buniche.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DCE3DD8081 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:55:13 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 44ce0b8a3e2ebbaa383dd628f2d4233c Received-SPF: pass (licasi.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.3 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.3; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (canaga.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.186]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by licasi.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541E810F0273 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:55:13 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 11:55:13 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.197 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: Leadbeater and the Full Moon of May X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=hyk9WV4jZE65eK9AkkMZdSrX4UiaUDnTIRpIAKx8bz58bMdJHgdb9AI X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:05 -0000 Friends, Interesting to note that according to what I see in Anand's page (see below= ),=20 the book "The Masters and the Path", by C. W. Leadbeater, stopped being re= printed in 1940.=20 Yet I believe that Adyar TPH did issue an "abridged" version of it, leaving= without CWL's fanciful description of "Wesak's Festival".=20 The Full Moon of May or Vaisakh is a serious event.=20 Yet CWL's artistic and choreographic description of it as a rite or ritual = was dropped away by Mrs. Radha Burnier in the latest edition of "The Maste= rs and the Path". In the 1980s. This irritated more than one radical CWL's = follower.=20 It is said that Mrs. Radha consulted with a high Tibetan lama about that "f= amous ritual" and the answer was -- there is nothing about that.=20 Then she decided to drop that part of the book, leaving all the other fanci= es in it, though.=20 Best regards, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Mon, 1 May 2006 11:58:13 +0530 Assunto:Theos-World Brotherhood of Adepts (AnandGholap.Net-Online Theosophy= ) >=20 > [ http://www.AnandGholap.net - Online Books on Theosophy ] >=20 > " There is a great Brotherhood, and its Members are in constant communica= tion with one another; but Their communication is on higher planes and They= do not necessarily live together. As part of Their work, some of these gre= at Brothers whom we call Masters of the Wisdom are willing to take pupil-ap= prentices and teach them; but They form only a small section of the mighty = Body of Perfected Men. >=20 > 39. As will be explained later on, there are seven types of men, for ever= y one belongs to one of the seven Rays into which the great wave of evolvin= g life is distinctly divided. It would seem that one Adept on each of the R= ays is appointed to attend to the training of beginners, and all those who = are coming along His particular Ray of evolution pass through His hands. >=20 > 40. No one below the rank of Adept is permitted to assume full responsibi= lity for a novice, though those who have been chelas for a number of years = are often employed as deputies, and receive the privilege of helping and ad= vising promising young aspirants. These older pupils are gradually being tr= ained for their future work when they in turn shall become Adepts, and they= are learning to take more and more of the routine work off the hands of th= eir Masters, so that the latter may be set free for higher labours which on= ly They can undertake. The preliminary selection of candidates for disciple= ship is now left to a large extent in the hands of these older workers, and= the candidates are temporarily linked with such representatives rather tha= n directly with the great Adepts. But the pupils and the Master are so wond= erfully one that perhaps this is almost "a distinction without a difference= ." > Complete book can be read at > http://anandgholap.net/Masters_And_Path-CWL.htm >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146465001.302724.17475.mangoro.hst.terra.com.br,5039,Des15,Des1= 5 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From carlosaveline@terra.com.br Mon May 01 10:40:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96594 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 17:37:07 -0000 X-Sender: carlosaveline@terra.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24973 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO buniche.hst.terra.com.br) (200.176.10.197) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from caledonia.hst.terra.com.br (caledonia.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.10.7]) by buniche.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045423DD8076; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:04:28 -0300 (BRT) X-Terra-Karma: 0% X-Terra-Hash: 67ea739c1323fe1051fd6364bcc2da57 Received-SPF: pass (caledonia.hst.terra.com.br: domain of terra.com.br designates 200.176.10.7 as permitted sender) client-ip=200.176.10.7; envelope-from=carlosaveline@terra.com.br; helo=terra.com.br; Received: from terra.com.br (araluen.hst.terra.com.br [200.176.3.183]) (authenticated user carlosaveline) by caledonia.hst.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id E431B23380D6; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:04:27 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:04:27 -0300 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 To: "theos-talk" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B115) X-SenderIP: 201.24.45.185 X-Originating-IP: 200.176.10.197 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "carlosaveline" Subject: An Invitation to Daniel Caldwell X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264889858; y=sUI_qqlCANWWrjsdsphgG_QENg8UgIi-H3P0xZ7d745-m1-PV35RbYQ X-Yahoo-Profile: cardosoaveline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 May 2006 17:37:06 -0000 Dear Daniel, These (see below) are old gossips, aren't they?=20=20 The important thing is that trees can be known by their fruits, as HPB wrot= e, quoting the New Testament.=20 What is the purpose of sowing dissent between Pasadena TS and the ULT?=20 What is the agenda behind this constant effort? These were difficult years. People had to follow their hearts in situation= s which kept changing -- and changing for the worse. So their positions had= to change as events changed.=20 Besides, no one was perfect. But the sincerity of those theosophists allow= us now to have a growing worldwide body of students, linked to Pasadena TS= , to the ULT, to the ETS, or independent (besides some of them still linked= to the Adyar TS), who understand and LIVE as much as they can the HPB/Mast= ers teachings.=20 I invite you to abandon lies, slanders, and any efforts to sow division, do= ubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists and theosophical groups. Best regards, Carlos.=20 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com C=F3pia: Data:Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:17:09 -0000 Assunto:Theos-World Robert Crosbie: "...Katherine Tingley...was appointed b= y William Q. Judge...." > Robert Crosbie stated: "...Katherine Tingley...was appointed by=20 > William Q. Judge...." > --------------------------------------------- >=20 > In the 1923 edition of the pamphlet titled "The United Lodge of=20 > Theosophists: Its Mission and its Future" and issued in Los Angeles,=20 > California by the Theosophy Company, the anonymous ULT writer tells=20 > his readers: >=20 > "During all the troublous period 1893-6 Mr. [Robert] Crosbie SHARED=20 > to an extend UNKNOWN and undreamt of by others in the burdens and=20 > the CONFIDENCE of Mr. [William Q.] Judge." p. 6. Caps added. >=20 > In 1919 another anonymous ULT writer stated that: >=20 > "[Mr Crosbie]. . . was for many years the devoted and CLOSE=20 > Companion of William Q. Judge. . . ." Theosophy magazine, 1919,=20 > Volume 7, page 320. Caps added. >=20 > IF the above Theosophy Company/ULT statements are historically true=20 > and correct, then was it this SHARED CONFIDENCE and CLOSE=20 > COMPANIONSHIP with Mr. Judge that allowed Mr. Crosbie to state the=20 > following???? >=20 > (1) ". . . Katherine Tingley . . . was appointed by William Q. Judge=20 > as his successor. . . ." Quoted from an April 1, 1901 Public Address=20 > by Robert Crosbie (reprinted in the pamphlet In Honor of William Q.=20 > Judge, 1901.) >=20 > (2) "We feel that he [William Q. Judge] knows of the self- > sacrificing efforts made by the faithful ones, and that those=20 > efforts have been called forth by his chosen successor [Katherine=20 > Tingley], of whom he [Judge] said [in his occult diary], 'she is=20 > true as steel, as clear as diamond, and as lasting as time.' " May=20 > 1902 Public Talk by Robert Crosbie >=20 > Let us compare Mr. Crosbie's testimony here with that of another=20 > trusted associate of William Judge.=20 >=20 > Julia Campbell Ver Planck (later Mrs. Archibald Keightley) was a=20 > well known Theosophical writer under her pen name "Jasper Niemand"=20 > and the compiler of the two volumes of W.Q. Judge's Letters That=20 > Have Helped Me.=20 >=20 > It can certainly be said of Julia that she also shared the=20 > confidence of Mr. Judge. >=20 > Below is what she wrote in 1896 about Mr. Judge and Mrs. Tingley:=20 >=20 > ". . . It is well known to members of the Inner Council in America=20 > and Europe that the present Outer Head [Mrs. Katherine Tingley] has=20 > for two years past assisted Mr. Judge in the inner work of the=20 > School as his associate and equal.. . . . For myself, I may say that=20 > as early as June, 1894, Mr. Judge told me of the standing of the=20 > present Outer Head in the school, and spoke of her work at that time=20 > and for the future. I am one among several to whom he so spoke=20 > himself. Of his appointment of the present Outer Head [Mrs.=20 > Tingley] there is absolutely no doubt; and there is also no doubt of=20 > her entire ability to fill that appointment; or of her right to it;=20 > or that it came from and was directed by the Master. . . . " [The=20 > Search Light (New York), Volume I, May 1898, p. 30.] >=20 > One notices here that Julia, in effective, confirms Mr.Crosbie's=20 > statements quoted earlier. >=20 > In regards to Crosbie's statement about Tingley being Judge's=20 > successor and also Crosbie's quoting of Judge's comments from his=20 > occult diary --- one should compare Crosbie's statements with the=20 > following testimony by another Theosophist: >=20 > ". . . Robert Crosbie assured me that he [Judge] had [appointed=20 > Katherine Tingley as his successor] and [Crosbie] also told me he=20 > had seen Judge's occult diary in which it was so stated.=20 >=20 > ". . . Later Crosbie came to me after he had left Point Loma [in=20 > 1904] and said that she never had been appointed by Judge. I=20 > recalled to him that he had said after Judge's death [in 1896] when=20 > he returned to Boston that he [Judge] had [appointed Tingley] and he=20 > denied it. . . ."=20 > C.F. Willard, The Canadian Theosophist, March 15, 1932, pp. 16-17.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=3Dcarlosavel= ine&_l=3D1,1146392309.827703.22529.tulear.hst.terra.com.br,6905,Des15,Des15 >=20 > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 28/04/2006 / Vers=E3o: 4.4.= 00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@gmail.com Mon May 01 10:47:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7214 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 17:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 17:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.82.205) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 17:37:00 -0000 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h27so1929347wxd for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 10:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.10 with SMTP id r10mr6613664wxb; Mon, 01 May 2006 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from fujiko.home.local ( [24.45.229.137]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id h15sm4693751wxd.2006.05.01.10.36.07; Mon, 01 May 2006 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 13:35:55 -0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Organization: Eve Software Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3ac.2322008.3187490a@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3ac.2322008.3187490a@aol.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail(BETA2)/9.00 (Win32) X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark S. Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: channelling raises certain questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Read it as, "united, but not of the same essence" -Mark H. On Mon, 01 May 2006 08:20:42 -0300, wrote: > In a message dated 5/1/2006 12:52:59 AM Central Standard Time, > silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > > "coadunate but not consubstantial" > > > Can anyone explain what the hell that means?????? > Chuck the Semi-Literate Heretic > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark S. Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 01 11:21:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83961 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 18:21:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 18:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (209.73.160.88) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 18:21:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 18:21:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 18:21:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 18:21:12 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.73.160.88 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.22.234 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: HPB was working on manuscript of 3rd vol. of the SD just before she died.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=Jsr9-kaz5ykDr0FzFhJwV0y7AgzlB43uXR5N6Gr-qp7yfFDR3sr700hL X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell >From the primary sources below one can see that HPB had=20 finally decided to publish the third volume of "The=20 Secret Doctrine" and was, in fact, working on the=20 third volume manuscript during the months preceding=20 her death. --------------------------------------------------- February 1890---HPB wrote in a letter to her sister Vera (Path,=20 December 1895, 268): "I must put the third volume of the [Secret] Doctrine in order, and=20 the fourth -- hardly begun yet, too." January 7, 1891---Claude Falls Wright wrote (Path, February 1891,=20 354): "H.P.B. has within the last week or so begun to get together the=20 MSS. (long ago written) for the Third Volume of The Secret Doctrine;=20 it will however, take a good twelve months to prepare for=20 publication." February 1891---Alice Leighton Cleather wrote (Theosophist, April=20 1891, 438): "H.P.B. has already started on Vol. III." February 18, 1891---Countess Wachtmeister wrote in a letter to W. Q.=20 Judge (cited in Report of Proceedings, Secret Doctrine Centenary,=20 October 29-30, 1988, 1989, 86): "When Volume 3 [of The Secret Doctrine] comes out this summer I=20 expect there will be a fresh demand for the earlier [two] volumes." April 1891---HPB wrote in Lucifer (CW 13: 145-6): "Two years ago, the writer promised in The Secret Doctrine, Vol. II,=20 p. 798, a third and even a fourth volume of that work. This third=20 volume (now almost ready) treats of the ancient Mysteries of=20 Initiation, gives sketches--from the esoteric standpoint--of many of=20 the most famous and historically known philosophers and hierophants=20 (everyone of whom is set down by the Scientists as an impostor),=20 from the archaic down to the Christian era, and traces the teachings=20 of all these sages to one and the same source of all knowledge and=20 science--the esoteric doctrine or WISDOM RELIGION. No need our=20 saying that from the esoteric and legendary materials used in the=20 forthcoming work, its statements and conclusions differ greatly and=20 often clash irreconcilably with the data given by almost all the=20 English and German Orientalists. . . ." May 4, 1891---Annie Besant gave testimony in HPB's case against=20 Elliott Coues and the New York Sun (Michael Gomes, ed., Witness for=20 the Prosecution: Annie Besant's Testimony on Behalf of H. P.=20 Blavatsky in the N. Y. Sun/Coues Law Case, 1993, 23): "There is one other work of hers [HPB's], which I have seen in=20 manuscript, still unpublished; a third volume of 'The Secret=20 Doctrine' which is now being got ready for the press under my own=20 eyes. Madame Blavatsky has also in preparation a glossary of=20 Sanscrit and Eastern tongues; those are both in preparation; one of=20 them is already in type and the other is nearly ready for type." May 8, 1891---H. P. Blavatsky died in London. >From the above 1890-1891 statements (either written by HPB herself=20 or by her London students) a reasonable conclusion can be drawn that=20 HPB had finally decided to publish the third volume of The Secret=20 Doctrine and was, in fact, working on the third volume manuscript=20 during the months preceding her death. For more on this 3rd volume manuscript, see: http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskybookstore.htm From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 01 12:10:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49704 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 19:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 19:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 19:10:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 19:10:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 19:10:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 19:09:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.22.234 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: What was in the 3rd Volume that HPB was working on just before her death? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=FftLeHitBlGKykgmA5TP1ixMjcrrIq5EUmN9t97pCdEeE7RNA8CLWHtE X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell What material/articles were in the 3rd Volume that HPB was working=20 on just before she died? It should be carefully noted that the original Volume I SD of 1886- 1887 became later by mid-1887 volume three.=20 Bertram Keightley tells us about this development. A report of Bertram Keightley's lecture "Theosophy in the West" to=20 the annual December 1890 T.S. convention at Adyar, Madras, India,=20 contained the following: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D H.P.B. handed over to him [B. Keightley] the manuscript of=20 the "Secret Doctrine," with a request that he should read it=20 through. He read through the substance of the two volumes published=20 [in 1888], and the third still unpublished [as of Dec. 1890]....=20 What would now be the 3rd volume of the history of Occultism was to=20 have been the first volume, while the treatises on Cosmogony and the=20 Genesis of Man were to form a later series....=20 He then drafted a scheme with the natural and obvious order, namely.=20 the Evolution of the Universe and the Evolution of man, &c. &c.=20 The next thing...was to REARRANGE...the manuscript according to the=20 [new] scheme. . . . [Quoted from "The Theosophist," July 1891, 586- 7.] Caps added. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Later in 1893, Bertram Keightley gave another account about this=20 rearrangement. Keightley tells us that upon her arrival in London=20 in May, 1887: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ...[Madame Blavatsky] placed the whole of the so far completed MSS.=20 [of The Secret Doctrine] in the hands of Dr. [Archibald] Keightley=20 and myself.... We both read the whole mass of MSS.-- a pile over three feet high -- most carefully through.... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=20 It should be noted that Bertram's above reference to "the whole of=20 the so-far completed MSS." is, of course, to the original Secret=20 Doctrine manuscript, written over a period of time up through April,=20 1887. Of course this manuscript was in HPB's own handwriting. Bertram goes on to say that this original manuscript was divided=20 into three parts or volumes: Volume I: History of some great Occultists Volume II: Evolution of Cosmos Volume III: Evolution of Man Bertram Keightley's account continues telling us that after they=20 read the manuscript, the two Keightleys had a prolonged consultation and then they faced HPB: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ...with the solemn opinion that the whole of the matter must be=20 REARRANGED on some definite plan.... Finally we laid before her a plan, suggested by the character of the=20 matter itself, viz., to make the work consist of four volumes.... Further, instead of making the first volume to consist, as she had=20 intended, of the history of some great Occultists, we advised her to=20 follow the natural order of exposition, and begin with the Evolution=20 of Cosmos, to pass from that to the Evolution of Man, then to deal=20 with the historical part in a third volume treating of the lives of=20 some great Occultists; and finally, to speak of Practical Occultism=20 in a fourth volume should she ever be able to write it.=20 This plan was laid before H.P.B., and it was duly sanctioned by=20 her. . . .=20 [Quoted from "Reminiscences of H. P. Blavatsky and The Secret=20 Doctrine," by Countess Constance Wachtmeister et al., Quest edition,=20 1976, pp. 78-9; also quoted in de Zirkoff, SD Intro., 41] caps added =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D So as Bertram Keightley tells us, the order or the sequence of the=20 volumes of The Secret Doctrine was changed and rearranged.=20 The Volume I manuscript BECAME the Volume III manuscript. So the new arrangement of the manuscript volumes was as follows: Volume I: Evolution of Cosmos [Cosmogenesis] Volume II: Evolution of Man [Anthropogenesis] Volume III: History of some great Occultists So what was THE CONTENTS of this third volume? Well, since the third volume in the new 1887 arrangement had been=20 originally volume one, we can go back to the primary source material=20 of 1886 and early 1887 (which INCLUDES the Wurzburg manuscript of=20 the SD as well as the 1886-1887 letters of HPB) and determine much=20 of the CONTENT of this volume one (which by the middle of 1887 had=20 then become volume three). For more on this, see: http://blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskybookstore.htm From ringding777@online.de Mon May 01 13:33:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding777@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10662 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 20:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 20:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 20:33:04 -0000 Received: from [84.191.190.83] (helo=commandedb8b91) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Faf4p358k-0002LY; Mon, 01 May 2006 22:33:04 +0200 Message-ID: <005b01c66d5e$cd8ed080$3d5afea9@commandedb8b91> To: References: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:30:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:8c41512093bc3fb70dd89ac3e44c624f X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World An Invitation to Daniel Caldwell X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=257009773; y=5mGr7-yAQFLR1_oNAKaXsM-pE1r1YnmCLXlKUts8GO5ZRwthUw6lQw5pZg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >I invite you to abandon lies, slanders, and any >efforts to sow division, doubts, skepticism and >hatred among theosophists and theosophical >groups. Carlos, it is new to me that Daniel spreads lies and slanders. Can you specify this? I never saw that he sow division, scepticism and hatred. What an Orwell double-speak is it? To quote from ULT sources is not lying and slander but information. To attack hypocricy and cant is not sow division. To investigate wrong information or lies is not hatred. HPB did the same things. If you attack Daniel for asking serious and understandable and even necessary question then you must attack HPB, too. Or as the Paris Lodge in 1887 did, make a move to excommunicate her - posthumous. Frank From ringding777@online.de Mon May 01 13:33:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding777@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93932 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 20:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 20:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 20:33:29 -0000 Received: from [84.191.190.83] (helo=commandedb8b91) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2Dk-1Faf5E2FS2-0000as; Mon, 01 May 2006 22:33:28 +0200 Message-ID: <005c01c66d5e$dc627030$3d5afea9@commandedb8b91> To: References: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:35:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:8c41512093bc3fb70dd89ac3e44c624f X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World CALDWELL & JESUITS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=257009773; y=QHyBMIxvJi8CRfs0E8NHqbFoBH2gRWrTRmF1Yn4H8TggIP120JCC7mS01w X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Carlos, it is just the other way round: It is the Jesuitic method to persecute people with slanders, lies and gossip. It's not up to Daniel - according to mundane and occult laws - that he is not guilty. It is up to you and Paul to proof that he IS guilty. You are using the same method Annie Besant used against Judge, don't? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "carlosaveline" To: "theos-talk" Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Theos-World CALDWELL & JESUITS Friends, I am curious to see whether Daniel Caldwell will answer to these lines from Sufilight: "The website has important and valuable information. But it doesn't tell us much about Blavatsky's views on the Jesuits, does it? And what are your views about the Jesuits? I can't really find them on this website although you sort of talk positively about Blavatsky." (see the whole text below). It is also interesting to add one fact. Paul Johnson's testimony about Daniel Caldwell -- according to which Daniel is a internet troller, etc. -- seems to see in Caldwell's methods the same Jesuitical tactics as denounced by H.P.B. and the Masters, that is, deceiving, lying, etc. I still hope Daniel will clarify all of this to us. I am not judging or comdemning him. Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Cópia: Data:Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:20:32 +0200 Assunto:Re: Theos-World Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 1831-1891: Chronological Review of Events in Her Life > Yeah... > Very well. The website has important and > valuable information. > But it doesn't tell us much about Blavatsky's > views on the Jesuits, does it? > And what are your views about the Jesuits? > I can't really find them on this website > although you sort of talk > positively about Blavatsky. > > > from > M. Sufilight with peace and love... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "danielhcaldwell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:37 AM > Subject: Theos-World Helena Petrovna Blavatsky > 1831-1891: Chronological > Review of Events in Her Life > > > > Helena Petrovna Blavatsky 1831-1891: > > Chronological Review of Events in Her Life > > > > A helpful overview of HPB's life with > > links to many important documents and sources. > > > > Daniel > > http://blavatskyarchives.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam > Inteligente Terra. > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1146388570.965162.23775.sotovento.hst.terra.com.br,4107,Des15,Des15 > > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail > Protegido Terra. > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em > 28/04/2006 / Versão: 4.4.00/4751 > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: > http://mail.terra.com.br/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 01 13:57:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91731 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 20:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 20:57:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 20:57:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 20:56:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 20:56:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 20:56:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.22.234 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Chuck, are you green with envy????????? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=gCGyf15zb0RaIovSHxVL4VFvuRN467w0Qcj3np334f0-ywPMSJypBwWM X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Chuck, Notice that Carlos writes to little ol' me: "I invite you to abandon lies, slanders, and any efforts to sow=20 division, doubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists and=20 theosophical groups." I would assume that Carlos is, in effect, saying I do all of these things. When was the last time he accused you of so much bad????? I guess I'm one "bad m-------- f------------." :) Is your aura green with envy???? I hope. :) It's awfully red in the office here. I guess that means my aura is pulsating red......or maybe it's just the red christmas lights on=20 my cape......... Daniel From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 01 14:07:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36394 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 21:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2006 21:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 21:07:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 21:06:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2006 21:06:46 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 21:06:46 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.22.234 From: "danielhcaldwell"