From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun Jan 01 01:32:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4057 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060101073845.58037.qmail@web52107.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.91.152.95 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=JtpM5RU2SdTVFsfYCBhKzLqiIUDPlkk4HGufNAOT9f9VqWkp4JGmVXE X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net > because of their insistence on the paranormal, and kaotowing to=20 >public opinion on a belief that we can contact our loved ones, etc. > Cass > Paranormal has always been nature of Theosophy. Modern Theosophy=20 mostly deals with phenomena of higher planes and rules of those=20 planes. Science deals with laws of physical plane whereas modern=20 Theosophy gives us knowledge of higher planes. Of course we can=20 contact loved ones. One can simply send e-mail to his/her loved one=20 and contact him/her. =20 > Anand Gholap wrote: > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"=20 > wrote: > > > > Anand, you write: > >=20 > > "her [HPB's] writing is such that sect or cult > > automatically forms among her students..." > >=20 > > What does this really mean? > >=20 > This is a good question. Blavatsky did not have high opinion about=20 > herself and her writing. She did not want her writing to become=20 cause=20 > of cult or sect. She expressly wrote against dogma and denied any=20 > absolute authority. So her intention was right. But problem is she=20 > wrote in such style that whoever reads it, studies it becomes=20 dogmatic,=20 > fundamentalist even fanatic. Her intentions were good but=20 unfortunately=20 > she could not write in proper manner which would have avoided=20 dogma,=20 > sect. Her students automatically become so. Neither Blavatsky not=20 > students want to become dogmatic but that happens automatically=20 when=20 > one studies writing of Blavatsky. And later it becomes very=20 difficult=20 > for students to realize that they have become dogmatic and even if=20 they=20 > realize, they can't change their minds easily. Mental machinery=20 gets so=20 > damaged that person can't get out of dogma easily.=20 >=20 > Anand Gholap >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=09=09 > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 03:11:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69832 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et16r-0002A6-Sy; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 06:10:46 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 03:10:35 -0800 Message-ID: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790e849d8cac8152fad143e8c92aba9c81350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=f7_WbnN_e9StmojmsmYFUiOae78SWZkgECQsAkpKfKtmCw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 2:52 AM Dear Alaya and John: I am not sure about the question of HPB's opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.=20=20 Can you let us have an actual reference ? Book ? Page ?=20 Were there any other references than=20 LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) I am focused more on the philosophy of THEOSOPHY than on people who approached, supported, or distorted it. The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is well covered in the documentary history book:=20 THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950)=20 [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] What we can find about this lady comes mainly from references in=20 MAHATMA LETTERS ( where ? ) and=20=20 LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) .Best wishes for 2006. Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Alaya Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:30 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Kindly: the question is for Dallas but I'll answer LBS is letters of Blavatsky to Sinnett and actually, HPB didn't have A.Kindsford in high steem... not at all.. but Masters did... A. K was a bit vain, and called too much attention over herself.. and she also thought that the wisdom of the orient was not good and she didn't believe in Masters... those are the main reasons HPB didn't like her.. However, she had also very good qualities, and since the Masters don't want an adoration of themselves and are not interested in personalities, they didn't care if she didn't believe on them.. They just wanted her to do a good job, and she had a great intuition, contact with angels, and her fight for the animal rights and vegetarianismo called the Chohan's attention. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB I would like references for these statements please. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote: Dallas, I have a question; =20 H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford. According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22) =20 =20 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna Bonus=20 Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as regards that. =20 John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John also wrote: Alaya, Thanks for your comments and response as your view in the topic. Yes, I= =20 put the question to Dallas but in a forum all can answer to present a wide= =20 spectra of considerations they hold. Ms. Kingsford attempted to meet HPB on several occasions traveling to=20 London in the effort. On each occasion she was turned back by HPB's Secretary, but=20 there came a time when HPB heard her in the next room and told the Secretar= y to let her pass, when Ms Kingsford was before her HPB told her secretary wh= y haven't you let her pass before this?=20 HPB commented that she perceived an=20 extremely fine inner organization in the subtle bodies of Ms Kingsford and held a=20 high opinion of her at that time.=20 I also seem to remember that Ms. Kingsford=20 was along with Alice Leighton Cleaver one of the few who were the very firs= t personal Esoteric Section students directly instructed by HPB. John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:50:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26378 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:50:25 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1Et1ik1Bno-0000fN; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:49:54 +0100 Message-ID: <009001c60ec9$a34dfb50$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:50:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=1PtAHKQukDygFwvNPMJxGsoQcHOVlPg1ag_GCGDOxX2fBihoisTYX84m3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is well covered in the documentary history book: THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950) [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] But that counts only for the EXOTERIC part of the Theosophical Movement. The author(s) reject, twist, intermix, misunderstand totally the ESOTERIC aspects of the TM, esp. the Guruparampara, the inner and outer messengers, etc. If you consider this in your study, the book can be of much worth. But do you really study a Hinayana text to get an idea of the Bodhisattva ideal and what Avataras are? Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:56:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88045 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:56:33 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1pA3MfN-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:33 +0100 Message-ID: <00ae01c60eca$8fcbab30$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <20a.f7c21eb.30d8b17b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:57:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky's writing was the cause of . . . the TS (that's the truth) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=gzjMkKX4gMH7M738E5RQ7Xlazj3wUrPfS9TTXfy00m2IR-dihUYRxhwQyA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >Why would Blavatsky (if she could even have >such control after death -- which she denied was possible) have played into your hands and allowed you to send Wrong. HPB never denied nirmanakaya-work after physical death. Seems, many ULT'ers deny the higher teachings and stick on exoteric books only. Seems GdeP is right, when he critiziced (in his "Dialogues") that ULT'ers are book-worshippers. They take the dead-letter and kill the spirit and fanatical persecute everyone who loves the spirit of HPB, claiming it is they who love HPB. Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:57:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44440 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1p9494t-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:32 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01c60eca$8f487170$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:54:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=3FKi0XF8obet7s5kui6iFkCcEEKmA3jhuKC0dJmKqsZQ1rycdlrctVXrVQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>Paranormal has always been nature of Theosophy. Modern Theosophy mostly deals with phenomena of higher planes and rules of those planes. Anand, you've got it right now! But the pseudo-Theosophy must be excluded from that as the writings of WC deal mostly with phenomena of lower planes: the astral world, which is even under the physical plane. He deals also with the lower siddhis which leads to illusion, self hypnosis, cant, will to power and is in opposite to the path of compassion which HPB promoted. Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:57:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78125 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:04 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1pB1y2S-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:34 +0100 Message-ID: <00af01c60eca$90264e50$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <20a.f7c21eb.30d8b17b@aol.com> <001001c60508$2c3f6ff0$4b25c050@your904q9zk0ar> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:57:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.188 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky's writing was the cause of . . . the TS (that's the truth) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=th98j8AoiUxOJsUzT7gBDy09KsB1jkXNpaJwVOG-8mlB1AauDthcHIIkgQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >to understand. It is our duty to make him a >Theosophist. No. We do not missionize. It is our only duty to defend theosophy and HPB. No one else except he himself can make a theosophist of him, even not a Buddha or a Mahatma could do that for him. Theosophy is the self-knowledge of the divine in man, as Hartmann said. Frank From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 04:51:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87988 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 12:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 12:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 12:51:12 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et2g1-0002kL-AH; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:51:10 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 04:50:56 -0800 Message-ID: <00b401c60ed2$06a7a950$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796b897b7b3b45e2136643e71504bdde0c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=pqYn7Sa2ps4RRrSPwPoSmjlLAZ6irLvTi2S2b5R9skloVg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/1/2006 3:23 AM QUESTIONS: 1 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains the words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened? 2 Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? -------------------------------------- Dear L R and Friends: Others have also wondered on the same topics - see: some notes below. Generally: In establishing a church, or a 'faith,' and in making it exclusive, such illogical statements were introduced and imposed. [ Craftiness takes advantage of ignorance and mental laziness by establishing "fear-factors," and denying the right and power of the individual to inquire. ] All "religions" are money-making and power-controlling contrivances - the priests cannot prove their claims, specially that of securing special attention (like remission of punishment from any sin) from "God." [Why should - or how can -- "God" break his own just and fair Laws ? ] Logic says they are not reasonable or tenable. The attributes given to God or Deity appear to be three principal ones: 1 OMNIPRESENCE is universally present - no exceptions 2 OMNISCIENCE knows and remembers all 3 OMNIPOTENCE establishes and is sensitive to all actions and relations Therefore: 1 God is present in each of us as well as in every atom everywhere [It is SPIRIT.] -- GOD IS THE UNIVERSE. Hence: Brotherhood is the invariable rule. If it is "God" that permits other religions to exist - how is it possible for the priests of any one religion to claim other religions are "false?" Or that proselyting or coercion should take place ? THEOSOPHY says: None of the illimitable and uncountable components {life-atoms}of the Universe are any younger or older than any other. They are all equally immortals. Some, by self-effort, progress faster and assume greater responsibilities under strict and just, fair Universal Law. These are the Prophets, Sages, Rishis, Avatars, Buddhas, etc. [ An analysis of all religions shows that their basic ethics and moral demands are similar.] Briefly: 1 Considering OMNIPRESENCE: all life-atoms (Monads) are immortals. Bodies and forms change, wear out and "die," but the indwelling INTELLIGENCE (Mind - Soul -- SPIRIT) survives and "reincarnates." It is permanent. Each carries internally the memory of its past, and intellectually (as a mind-being) is aware of the illimitable potential of its future. Wisdom is the capacity of embracing every aspect of Nature (the Universe) and willingly, consciously participating in assisting the growth of those brother-minds which are on the same pilgrimage as it is. Nature is thus composed of several 'levels' of active intelligences that have become (by self-regulated and impersonal effort -- applied virtue) impartial and wise 'agents.' These divisions are: The "sub-human." [Non-self-conscious - as the 'atoms' and the 'lower kingdoms' are.] The "human," each one with an independent consciousness and a "free-will." [Mind-beings.] The "super-human" [Masters of Wisdom] with universal Self-Consciousness - and access to all the memories and records of the past - including primordial and secondary evolution. Incapable of harming anyone or anything. All 'selfishness' eliminated. 2 God is KARMA - and, as the Universe is OMNISCIENT, it records all motives for thoughts, words and deeds. Being universally sensitive, all the relationships between components are automatically noted and the "virtues" [which are educative and not punitive] are applied - each actor, at whatever level of intelligence, receives a response tailored to its capacity to learn and improve. Universal law preserves the rights and responsibilities of all individuals - it is universally protective. Its objective is to improve (spiritualize) every component life-atom (Monad). There are no "secrets" possible in our real Universe or on Earth. Every "atom" is a witness to our motives and actions. 3 OMNIPOTENCE is the capacity to respond impartially to any and all changes in the ethico-moral atmosphere of any of its milliards of components, and adjust responses so that they are educative and not punitive. For this it needs impersonal and morally just "agents." These are the Sages, the Wise, the Prophets, Avatars, Buddhas, etc.. This condition is the destiny of all men (and eventually of every life-atom) as they accelerate their own future by self determination and will. Every human intelligence (mind-soul-spirit) is engaged in this process. It is accelerated as individual Monads choose self-consciously (beginning now) to learn more of their inheritance, of their potentials and capacity, and of the workings and purpose of the Universe they (and all of us) live in. We are all fellow pilgrims on the Path of Life. Hope, not fear, is the true master. Perfection for all lies ahead. This is what THEOSOPHY observes in Nature and teaches. It asks to be considered. Best wishes for 2006 Dallas ========================= -----Original Message----- From: L.R. Andrews Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:12 AM To: Subject: Lord's Prayer LR I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains the words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened? Thanks for your feedback. -------------------------------------------------------- DTB What kind of a 'just God' would torture its subjects ? Impossible! No just and true benevolence is to be sensed in this. This is a priestly construction. Jesus never taught this. Study church history - when was this "prayer" adopted? Why ? -------------------------------------------------------- LR Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? ---------------------------------------------------------- DTB Fear is based on ignorance and presumed knowledge. Craftiness and slyness are being used to keep the masses ignorant pliable and reasonably satisfied. Study ISIS UNVEILED on Theology to secure an understanding of this. Thy states as above that man is a free agent, and has to learn how to use his mind. The Universe is just, honest and fair --- and not the reverse. There is no "PERSONAL GOD." There is a deific presence ["Perfection"] which is equally diffused everywhere - our minds find difficulty in understanding this because we tend to limit ourselves to our perceptive senses - and the Universe is so vast we can only imagine an unlimited situation. And there is no "PERSONAL DEVIL" per se. Let us then visualize "God" (the good, the true and the beautiful) as indwelling in us -- as it is in all other beings and humans. Let then act as brothers to all - no exceptions. Look for and study the laws of brotherhood and co-existence, and 'give and take.' DTB ------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 05:08:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12874 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et2x5-00064B-1z; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:08:47 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:08:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00c101c60ed4$7dc18d10$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796721e8f7b51a63df64f4198d7eb5fb35350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RELIGIOUS INCONSISTENCIES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=2UFxn32HhSes36U-UKGWktjMtzJPYW9jtBqp3yDiNsbmCA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 3:23 AM Re: RELIGIOUS INCONSISTENCIES =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 QUESTIONS: =A0 =A0 1=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer co= ntains the words, "AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION."=20 Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened?=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 2=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FEAR SEEMS TO BE A "DEVIL" AMONGST US; fear o= f "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? =A0 -------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 Dear L R and Friends: =A0 =A0 Others have also wondered on the same topics =96 see:=A0 some notes below. =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Generally:=A0=20 =A0 In establishing a church, or a =91faith,=92 =A0and in making it exclusive, = such illogical statements were introduced and imposed.=A0 [ Craftiness takes advantage of ignorance and mental laziness by establishing =93fear-factors,= =94 and denying the right and power of the individual to inquire. ]=A0=20 =A0 All =93religions=94 are money-making and power-controlling contrivances =96= the priests cannot prove their claims, specially that of securing special attention (like remission of punishment from any sin) =A0from =93God.=94 [W= hy should =96 or how can -- =A0=93God=94 break his own just and fair Laws ? ] =A0 Logic says they are not reasonable or tenable. =A0 =A0 The attributes given to God or Deity appear to be three principal ones: =A0 =A0 1=A0 OMNIPRESENCE=A0=A0=A0 is universally present =96 no exceptions =A0 2=A0 OMNISCIENCE=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 knows and remembers all =A0 3=A0 OMNIPOTENCE=A0=A0=A0=A0 establishes and is sensitive to all actions an= d relations =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Therefore: =A0 =A0 1=A0 God is present in each of us as well as in every atom everywhere =A0[I= t is SPIRIT.] =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 -- GOD IS THE UNIVERSE.=A0 =A0=A0Hence:= =A0 Brotherhood is the invariable rule. =A0 If it is =93God=94 that permits other religions to exist =96 how is it poss= ible for the priests of any one religion to claim other religions are =93false?.= =94 =A0Or that proselyting or coercion should take place? =A0 =A0 THEOSOPHY says: =A0 None of the illimitable and uncountable components {life-atoms}of the Universe are any younger or older than any other. =A0They are all equally immortals.=A0 Some, by self-effort, progress faster and assume greater responsibilities under strict and just, fair Universal Law. These are the Prophets, Sages, Rishis, Avatars, Buddhas, etc=85=A0 [ An analysis of all religions shows that their basic ethics and moral demands are similar.]=20 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Briefly:=A0=20 =A0 1=A0 Considering OMNIPRESENCE:=A0 all life-atoms (Monads) are immortals.=A0= Bodies and forms change, wear out and =93die,=94 but the indwelling INTELLIGENCE (= Mind =96 Soul --=A0 SPIRIT) survives and =93reincarnates.=94=A0 It is permanent.= =20 =A0 Each carries internally the memory of its past, and intellectually (as a mind-being) is aware of the illimitable potential of its future.=20 =A0 Wisdom is the capacity of embracing every aspect of Nature (the Universe) and willingly, consciously participating in assisting the growth of those brother-minds which are on the same pilgrimage as it is.=20 =A0 =A0 Nature is thus composed of several =91levels=92 of active intelligences tha= t have become (by self-regulated and impersonal effort -- applied virtue) impartial and wise =91agents.=92=A0=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These divisions are:=20 =A0 The =93sub-human.=94=A0 [Non-self-conscious =96 as the =91atoms=92 and the = =91lower kingdoms=92 are.] =A0 The =93human,=94 each one with an independent consciousness and a =93free-w= ill.=94=A0 [Mind-beings.] =A0 The =93super-human=94 [Masters of Wisdom] with universal Self-Consciousness= =96 and access to all the memories and records of the past =96 including primordial and secondary evolution.=A0 Incapable of harming anyone or anything.=A0 All =91selfishness=92 eliminated. =A0 =A0 2=A0 God is KARMA =96 and, as the Universe is OMNISCIENT, it records all mo= tives for thoughts, words and deeds.=A0 Being universally sensitive, all the relationships between components are automatically noted and the =93virtues= =94 [which are educative and not punitive] are applied =96 each actor, at whate= ver level of intelligence, receives a response tailored to its capacity to lear= n and improve.=20 =A0 Universal law preserves the rights and responsibilities of all individuals = =96 it is universally protective.=A0 Its objective is to improve (spiritualize) every component life-atom (Monad).=A0 There are no =93secrets=94 possible i= n our real Universe or on Earth. Every =93atom=94 is a witness to our motives and actions.=20 =A0 =A0 3=A0 OMNIPOTENCE is the capacity to respond impartially to any and all chan= ges in the ethico-moral atmosphere of any of its milliards of components, and adjust responses so that they are educative and not punitive.=A0=20 =A0 For this it needs impersonal and morally just =93agents.=94=A0 These are th= e Sages, the Wise, the Prophets, Avatars, Buddhas, etc=85.=A0 This condition = is the destiny of all men (and eventually of every life-atom) as they accelerate their own future by self determination and will.=20 =A0 Every human intelligence (mind-soul-spirit) is engaged in this process.=A0 = It is accelerated as individual Monads choose self-consciously (beginning now) to learn more of their inheritance, of their potentials and capacity, and o= f the workings and purpose of the Universe they (and all of us) live in.=20 =A0 We are all fellow pilgrims on the Path of Life. =A0 =A0 Hope, not fear, is the true master.=20 =A0 Perfection for all lies ahead.=20 =A0 This is what THEOSOPHY observes in Nature and teaches.=A0 It asks to be considered. =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Best = wishes for 2006 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Dallas =A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 -----Original Message----- From: L.R. Andrews=20 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:12 AM To:=20 Subject: Lord's Prayer =A0 LR=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains t= he words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened?=A0 Thanks for your feedback. =A0 -------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 DTB=A0=A0=A0=A0 What kind of a =91just God=92 would torture its subjects ?= =A0 Impossible! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 No just and true benevolence is to be sen= sed in this. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 This is a priestly construction.=A0 Jesus= never taught this. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Study church history =96 when was this = =93prayer=94 adopted?=A0 Why ? =A0 =A0 -------------------------------------------------------- =A0 LR=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death,= " illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? =A0 ---------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 DTB=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fear is based on ignorance and presumed knowledge.=A0 Craft= iness and slyness are being used to keep the masses ignorant pliable and reasonably satisfied.=A0 Study ISIS UNVEILED on Theology to secure an understanding of this. =A0 Thy states as above that man is a free agent, and has to learn how to use his mind.=20 =A0 The Universe is just, honest and fair --- and=A0 not the reverse. =A0 There is no =93PERSONAL GOD.=94 =A0=A0There is a deific presence [=93Perfec= tion=94] which is equally diffused everywhere =96 our minds find difficulty in understanding this because we tend to limit ourselves to our perceptive senses =96 and the Universe is so vast we can only imagine an unlimited situation.=A0=20 =A0 And there is no =93PERSONAL DEVIL=94 per se. =A0 =A0 Let us then visualize =93God=94 (the good, the true and the beautiful) =A0a= s indwelling in us -- as it is in all other beings and humans. Let then act a= s brothers to all =96 no exceptions. =A0 Look for and study the laws of brotherhood and co-existence, and =91give an= d take.=92 =A0 =A0 DTB ------------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 From saidevo@yahoo.co.in Sun Jan 01 06:43:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: saidevo@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88542 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.65.101.169 From: "saidevotee" Subject: Spiritual Inquiries: 7. Introduction to the Astral World X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=227523244; y=wCCidRcxYglcU1r5sNv8WvtD_G6ySiAdm-Mxh4kTLVIhPg X-Yahoo-Profile: saidevo "Feeling or emotion is of two kinds--pleasurable or painful.=20 Pleasure, fundamentally a sense of moreness, produces attraction,=20 love (raga); pain, fundamentally a sense of lessness, produces=20 repulsion, hate (dvesha)...All emotions arise from love or hate, or=20 from both, in varying degrees of intensity." -- The Science of the Emotions by Bhagavan Das. The Astral World of the earth is where our desires and emotions manifest, propagate, and affect both the person who originates them and the target they are aimed at. Every person has to go via the astral world after death. It is also the world where most us live,=20 in our astral bodies, until we are ready for a brief stay in the=20 mental world before another birth. The souls of highly developed people when they die, just flash=20 through the astral world into the higher world. Their consciousness=20 is awakened only on the higher or lower planes (devachan or heavens)=20 of the mental world. Ordinary people who possess the qualities of unconditional love, unselfishness and devotion, just sleep through=20 out their necessary stay in the astral world, and their=20 consciousness awakens only in the mental world. All other people, however, have to spend their after-death lives on the astral world, until the seeds of desire in their astral bodies wither out and the astral bodies die, releasing the consciousness=20 into the mental body. Life in the astral world is more active than on the physical world, and form more plastic. The spirit-matter of this world is more=20 highly vitalised than any grade of spirit-matter in the physical=20 world. The seven worlds are actually concentric interpenetrating spheres,=20 not separted from each other by distance but by a difference of constitution. However, it is convenient to think of the higher=20 worlds as forming the next levels of the physical world. The astral world has seven sub-planes, named after their physical counterparts: astral solid, astral liquid, etc. Astral objects are formed by astral matter, just as physical objects are formed by physical matter. The matter of the astral world of our planet stretches a little less than the mean distance of the moon, which is 239,000 miles. The=20 astral spheres of the moon and the earth touch each other when the=20 moon is in perigee, that is, nearest to the earth. The mental world=20 is a still larger sphere. The higher globes are large enough to=20 touch the corresponding spheres of other planets. An ultimate astral=20 atom has 49^5 or 282,475,249 "bubbles in koilon". The astral world has its own scenery and inhabitants, but much of=20 the scenery resembles that on earth, being largely made of the=20 astral duplicates of physical objects. The world and its scenery we=20 encounter in our dreams is usually astral. The astral objects are translucent! Every object in the astral world has a starry light, even the atmosphere is visible, hence the name astral (meaning, like the stars) world. Consciousness in the astral world is less hampered by astral matter, so an object is visible in the astral world in all its profile:=20 back, front, outside and the inside! An untrained observer is=20 shocked and confused by this scenario, receives the most topsy-turvy=20 impressions, and commits blunders, when he tries to translate them=20 to his physical consciousness on return from his astral travels. The following figure illustrates the geometry of the astral world as perceived by a clairvoyant. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/astralGeo.jpg *** Fig.7.1 Escher Print: In this Escher wood carving entitled "Another World", we have a visual representation of the geometry of the=20 astral plane as it is perceived by clairvoyant individuals (see=20 quote by C. W. Leadbeater on page 274). Note here the seemingly=20 paradoxical overlap of separate three dimensional spaces to create a=20 geometrical space that is seemingly four dimensional. Such a=20 geometry allows one to perceive a three dimensional object from all=20 sides at once. The seeming four dimensional geometry of this plate=20 is also a key quality of hallucinogenic drug induced perceptions,=20 thus pointing to the similarity of clairvoyant and hallucinogenic=20 induced perceptions. Courtesy: Beyond the Physical an e-book by Donald J. DeGracia Apart from the astral counterparts of the objects and scenery of the physical world, the astral world has its own entities which are ensouled by the astral elemental essence. When the second great outpouring or wave of life that created forms out of matter passed through the astral world, it vivified the plane by creating forms=20 out of aggregated astral atoms and ensouling these forms. Known as=20 the astral elemental essence, these forms of astral entities are=20 very sensitive, and change their shapes with startling rapidity and vitality under the impulse of thought vibrations. This means that we can create shapes out of the astral elemental essence by our thoughts, feelings and desires, which have different rates of vibrations. We do create such shapes even in our waking consciousness, by our incessant thoughts and feelings and desires,=20 but we are scarcely aware of this fact. The shapes or forms we create out of thoughts have three attributes: duration, outline and color. The duration of the form depends on the strength of the thought impulse. The clearness of its outline is determined by the precision of the thinking, and the colour depends=20 on the quality of thought: intellectual, devotional, passional. Shapes produced by thoughts and feelings are called thought-forms or artificial elementals. Ensouled by a thought, each thought-form has its own duration of life, and moves very swiftly, towards any=20 intended target, or lazily drifts about where there is no target. Vague, loose thoughts create loose clouds of elemental essence, drifting idly and attaching themselves to astral bodies whose magnetism (vibrations) attracts them. Unattached thought-forms ultimately dissolve into their source elemental essence. This means that our dreams can also be shaped by the thoughts of people around us. The thought currents generated by the enormous number of thoughts floated by people pulsate around us all the time. Some of these are absorbed by our etheric-double (the counterpart of our physical body) giving rise to odd, illogical and strange dreams. More on dreams later. Clear, sharp thoughts have definite shapes with sharp outlines, and show an endless variety of designs. They have longer life than their cloudy brothers. Average people create more thought-forms by feeling or desire than with their thoughts. An outburst of anger causes a very definitely outlined and powerful flash of red. Sustained anger makes a more dangerous thought-form, red in colour, and pointed, barbed or otherwise qualified to injure. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfAngerBurst.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfAngerSust.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfLoveRadi.jpg *** Fig.7.2 Thought-forms created by a sudden burst of anger (left), sustained anger (middle), and radiating love (right). Courtesy: Thought Forms by Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater Love, according to its quality, sets up forms more or less=20 beautiful, in colours ranging from shades of crimson to the soft=20 hues of rose. A mother's love for her son hovers around him like an=20 angel-form, dispelling any evil influences that he may attract by=20 his thoughts. Study of thought-forms is a subject by itself. Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater have written a very useful book on this subject. We shall have more thoughts on this subject later. Thus, even a slight understanding of the astral world can act as a powerful stimulus to right thinking. The Astral World has its own rich scenary, and is populated largely=20 by disembodied souls (we call them dead people) and dreamers, who consititute the human part. There are also non-human entities: Devas and Nature Spirits on the side of the good, and a whole lot of entities on the side of the evil, belonging to the realms of Harry Potter: vampires, werewolves, and the black magician's creations. We shall take a comprehensive tour of the Astral World in a separate set of articles. To continue on the mental and other planes... Sources: 1. Theosophy Explained in Questions and Answers by P. Pavri. 2. The Ancient Wisdom by Annie Besant Regards, saidevo =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun Jan 01 06:46:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48467 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 14:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 14:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 14:46:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:45:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:45:57 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:45:56 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.91.152.101 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: Kindly forget Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=1r6m-oiMN0MlMbgelHSKfWA2L-qQCtD4gBfWdA4CeF2XTrzIoaXGWBc X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck"=20 wrote: > > 1/1/2006 2:52 AM >=20 > Dear Alaya and John: >=20 > I am not sure about the question of HPB's opinion of Mrs.=20 Kingsford.=20=20 >=20 > Can you let us have an actual reference ? Book ? Page ?=20 >=20 > Were there any other references than=20 > LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) >=20 > I am focused more on the philosophy of THEOSOPHY than on people who > approached, supported, or distorted it. >=20 > The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is=20 well > covered in the documentary history book:=20 >=20 > THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950)=20 > [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] >=20 > What we can find about this lady comes mainly from references in=20 >=20 > MAHATMA LETTERS ( where ? ) and=20=20 > LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) >=20 > .Best wishes for 2006. >=20 > Dallas >=20=20 As per my knowledge Anna Kingsford was member of London Lodge as was=20 A. P. Sinnett. Both wanted to become President of the lodge and so=20 it caused some bitterness in relationship.=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >=20 > -----Original Message----- >=20 > From: Alaya > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:30 AM > To:=20 > Subject: Re: Kindly: >=20 > the question is for Dallas but I'll answer >=20 > LBS is letters of Blavatsky to Sinnett >=20 > and actually, HPB didn't have A.Kindsford in high steem... not at=20 all.. > but Masters did... >=20 > A. K was a bit vain, and called too much attention over herself..=20 and > she also thought that the wisdom of the orient was not good and she > didn't believe in Masters... those are the main reasons HPB didn't > like her.. >=20 > However, she had also very good qualities, and since the Masters=20 don't > want an adoration of themselves and are not interested in > personalities, they didn't care if she didn't believe on them.. >=20 > They just wanted her to do a good job, and she had a great=20 intuition, > contact with angels, and her fight for the animal rights and > vegetarianismo called the Chohan's attention. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > DTB I would like references for these statements please. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote: >=20 > Dallas, >=20 > I have a question; >=20=20 > H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford. > According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22) >=20=20 >=20=20 > 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? >=20 > 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna=20 Bonus=20 > Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as=20 regards that. >=20=20 > John > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > John also wrote: >=20 > Alaya, >=20 > Thanks for your comments and response as your view in the=20 topic. Yes, I=20 > put the question to Dallas but in a forum all can answer to=20 present a wide=20 > spectra of considerations they hold. >=20 > Ms. Kingsford attempted to meet HPB on several occasions=20 traveling to=20 > London in the effort. On each occasion she was turned back by HPB's > Secretary, but=20 > there came a time when HPB heard her in the next room and told the=20 Secretary >=20 > to let her pass, when Ms Kingsford was before her HPB told her=20 secretary why >=20 > haven't you let her pass before this?=20 >=20 > HPB commented that she perceived an=20 > extremely fine inner organization in the subtle bodies of Ms=20 Kingsford and > held a=20 > high opinion of her at that time.=20 >=20 > I also seem to remember that Ms. Kingsford=20 > was along with Alice Leighton Cleaver one of the few who were the=20 very first >=20 > personal Esoteric Section students directly instructed by HPB. >=20 > John >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 08:12:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12407 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 16:11:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 16:11:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:11:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation & the Fate of Victims of Accidents...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=QcSMYZzzhN1iPMC1gthOf_HfVaKMZ3wJp9y7t4Sc09mMN1egxzxTIPJL X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation and the Fate of Victims of Accidents & Violence" See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/reincarnationstevenson.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bta101@hotmail.com Sun Jan 01 10:02:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bta101@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1438 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:02:41 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43B65B4E.24712.9549AF0@localhost> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 70.132.42.79 From: "bta1012003" Subject: Re: [Do not! A.] Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=118449510; y=7m6jF-Jf1WsMnLpR_TLNEwZqTxIYGVqqKIR_sFkX64F3fgfHeA X-Yahoo-Profile: bta1012003 Dear Adelasie: Thank you for your consistent, poetic poise. It disperses so many=20 unnecessary claptraps, to use your term. I always enjoy reading=20 your comments and responses.=20=20 Happy New Year, bta > Why on earth does this claptrap persist? I can only surmise that=20 it=20 > is an opportunity for anyone who tries to live right and think for=20 > him/herself to practice these very things. Already it is a bit=20 over=20 > my line to respond, except that I want to defend that great soul,=20 > HPB, and the Masters of Compassion, her Teachers, the saviors of=20 > mankind, from this petty caterwauling. And yet I know, I know,=20 that=20 > any opposition only fuels negativity. Let us live in the Light=20 and,=20 > following the examples set for us by the Great Ones, find=20 compassion=20 > for those who are so deluded that such messages as this, and the=20 > subject, can even pretend to be serious. Let me try... >=20 > Happy New Year all, to new beginnings, > Adelasie >=20 From amela@internode.on.net Sun Jan 01 10:18:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95702 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 18:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 18:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 18:18:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:17:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:16:53 -0000 X-Sender: amela@internode.on.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45075 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.adl2.internode.on.net) (203.16.214.181) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from p43ghz (ppp100-180.static.internode.on.net [150.101.100.180]) by smtp1.adl2.internode.on.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with SMTP id k01CxMdB082391 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:29:35 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from amela@internode.on.net) Message-ID: <001801c60ed3$341c3530$f301a8c0@p43ghz> To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:29:19 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Originating-IP: 203.16.214.181 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Amela" Subject: introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162161186; y=blOlzX4MMwbOvW06i7nP2oymAij1IB7GN2o6IhEYX9G67YY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 Jan 2006 18:16:50 -0000 Hello Well as my first email is my introduction I shall begin. My name is Amela. I am a highschool science teacher in Australia. I'm not sure how much detail is needed but If more information is requested I am happy to supply it. There are two reasons why I have joined the list. The first reason is that I am seeking spiritual/intellectual growth. The second reason is that I am delving into opening up a highschool based on an educational philosophy from an alternative school I used to teach at which closed (long story). But I also want to add a spiritual philosophy to this future school. Since the school closed I haven't been very happy teaching whithin dogmatic private schools or public schools which lack a holistic appraoch to teaching. Some claim they do but I still think more can be achieved. I've looked into teaching at a steiner school but it doesn't include all of my visions and is still someone too structured. If anyone is curious about the philosophy of this school I am happy to share. At this point it is just a wonderful idea. not sure where to go from here. warm regards Amela [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Jan 01 11:35:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52093 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 19:35:15 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Et8yl-0006kz-0e for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:34:58 +0100 Message-ID: <003e01c60f0a$f522dc70$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=3cpoycyRzP_kACtK1gkleVaES37BalL-7tqBrTuDxDWH X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo Anand and all, I have been pondering your reply a bit. I do not agree so much with you, this time. I think Cass earlier made a reply, which deserves attention. But, let us see, what you can reply with. This is my answer. 1. Anand wrote: I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. My Sufilight answer: I agree, that the Masters from time to time send out emmisaries or direct agents. That is my knowledge. But, I find It to be somewhat fruitless to assume, with words like "Most probably", about this issue. I say this in a friendly manner - even if it is true, that it could be guiding someone. If one doesn't really have Knowledge about this issue one aught to prepare oneself for this Knowledge. This is Learning how to Learn. Intellectual assumtions will not help us much. I will add, that it should not be ruled out, that more than one person from different organisations could be said to the second Teacher or Teachers. Each of them taking care of the various groups of Seekers and their needs on more than one non-linear level. Even if I know who the teachers are or was it would not help, that much if I told just anyone about it. There is time, place and circumstances etc. to talk about such knowledge. This is not the place and time etc. as I understand it. 2. Anand wrote: Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult automatically forms among her students. Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very dogmatic. My Sufilight answer: The use of the word "automatically" I find here to be problematic, because it could be misunderstood. I would rather say, that ofshoot cults or sects was created because global Karma made it necessary. If people want to create a cult, they do so. And many of the cults followers does often not know, that it is a cult.:-) Else I think we agree on that. On Annie Besant being a second teacher, - I would compare for instance the content of Blavatsky's article on "Chelas" with the total litterary outlet, which Besant allowed to be created together with Leadbeater during her time of leadership. The article by Blavatsky is here: http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/Chelas.htm An excerpt from Blavatsky's article: "Indeed the goal set before the Chela is not the acquisition of psychological power; his chief task is to divest himself of that overmastering sense of personality which is the thick veil that hides from sight our immortal part--the real man. So long as he allows this feeling to remain, just so long will he be fixed at the very door of Occultism, unable to proceed further." I hold it to be true, that Besant under her leadership allowed - perhaps through Leadbeater - litterary outlets, with a content which quite unfortunately way too much drove many Seekers into a witchhunt on exploration of ekstra sensory perception (ESP). While at the same time putting the methaphysical and esoterical teachings on Gupta-Vidya too much into the background. Not to mention the emotionally oriented ceremonials, which was connected to TS Adyar during the leadership of Annie Besant. - And because of this TS Adyar ran into problems and secterian tendencies flourished within the society. At the same time we must remember, that there was a greater reform in a number of western european countries School-systems during the time of Besants leadership. A far greater number could read and write during Besants leadership than during the Blavatsky area. Even Annie Besant did herself an effort on this in India. In the Middle East and other parts of the globe developments of TS nature were more slow. This change of focus within the TS Adyar was in fact at least somewhat a deterioration of the theosophical teachings as they were forwarded by Blavatsky. Not that Besant and other lecturers during her time of leadership never taught real and genuine theosophy, on their level of understanding. So they did, and that was good. But, the deterioration happened. This deterioration however could be both a necessary and somewhat fruitful plan. Because many aspirants would be easier attracted to Theosophy and spread the news about theosophy around the globe. And Blavatsky teachings and other more genuine teachings was still available to the Seeker from TS Adyar's book production and within the TS libraries. However, empahsis has to be laid on the fact, that It is the spiritual quality among members of TS, which is important. Not so much the number of followers. Blavatsky once said something similar. So to me Annie Besant was not the Second Teacher in the sense, that she did not give irrefutable evidence on Gupta-Vidya. Certainly not. But, maybe you have something else to offer Anand? I might have missed something? This said, I know also, that a Master from time to time hides behind emotionally oriented ESP cults - and act as an more or less vissible guide to the cults future destiny. Emotional ESP cults using the name Theosophy has a vital importance when compared to the real Theosophical groups which a direct agent and clear continous contact with the Masters. This simply because they are connected to each other. This should be underlined. But an emotional ESP cult using the name Theosophy - is still just an emotional ESP cult. 3. Anand wrote: You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. My Sufilight answer: Interesting answer you have there Anand. Could you expand on what Adyar TS should do to "stop formation of dogma and cult"? And please do also expand on why I should merely - guess - which groups are frozen? I hope my answer was helpful. from M. Sufilight with a strange clairvoyant look...and a happy laughter... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anand Gholap" To: Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on > Hello Morten, > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> Hallo Anand, >> >> Thanks. >> >> About the second Teacher I will say this: >> >> "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, > or the >> competence of another man or institution, he must first learn > something >> which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his > perception itself >> is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional > attraction to the >> individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This > is 'Learning How To >> Learn." >> (from 'Learning how to Learn' by Idries Shah) > > I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. > Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was > appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters > would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of > Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It > was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of > years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. > >> >> >> Then the next questions of mine comes forward again. >> Here I take the three next of the 15-16 questions to ponder or > contemplate. >> >> A. >> Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second teacher" > within >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a > theosophical >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and > psychological >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> B. >> And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society merely > as an >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance with > the >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? > > Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She > did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult > automatically forms among her students. > Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, > Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create > sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very > dogmatic. > > >> >> C. >> Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance of the >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - and > not >> knowing to be so? >> >> >> Or I could ask which groups or organisations if any are involved > in this? > > You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken > precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist > issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things > they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. > > Anand Gholap >> >> >> >> from >> M. Sufilight with the Seekers after Truth... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anand Gholap" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:29 PM >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant > as >> founder & move on >> >> >> > Hello Morten, >> > Article is interesting. Indeed major problem for most is who is >> > second and real teacher mentioned here. >> > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" > > theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hallo Anand and all, >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> >> >> I think we have been talking about these issues before here at >> > Theos-talk. >> >> >> >> Maybe Anand, other participants to this thread as well as > various >> >> theosophists could be helped >> >> by reading a previous email of mine to this place: >> >> http://www.theos-talk.com/archives/200409/tt00536.html >> >> (And read also the links within the emails) >> >> Especially this one: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/17916 >> >> >> >> An major excerpt from the last link are given in the below >> >> It is in part about what happened when Blavatsky died > physically: >> >> >> >> "After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, >> > the >> >> followers >> >> will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their >> > strength and >> >> weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good >> > or bad, and >> >> this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - >> > when he/she >> >> arrives. >> >> If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely >> > been >> >> developing >> >> themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied, > they >> > will be >> >> too >> >> blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher, for > which >> >> appearance >> >> they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in default, >> > to a >> >> different >> >> group. (And this groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) > Again >> > well and >> >> good >> >> : providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is >> > offered to >> >> them >> >> again. This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower >> > self. They >> >> will >> >> realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that the person who >> > appears to >> >> be >> >> 'second' teacher is in reality - the first in importance. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and >> > he/she will >> >> behave >> >> in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life >> > easier, in >> >> most >> >> cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them >> > things, which >> >> are >> >> only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality falls > into >> > place. >> >> The >> >> object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain valuable >> > thoughts >> >> have >> >> been given to the disciples. In the second, they are tested by > the >> > means of >> >> these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped >> > pieces of >> >> wood to >> >> people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom > will >> > give >> >> odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her > followers. - >> > If they >> >> try to >> >> fit these together however, and to make a pattern in his/hers - >> > absences, - >> >> they >> >> are becoming 'fossilised'. Because, the Wisdom tradition has to >> > show that >> >> the >> >> object of mankind is not to construct idols, but to follow a >> > supreme >> >> pattern, >> >> which is learnt piece by piece. >> >> >> >> When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of > fallowness, >> > because >> >> the >> >> one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of >> > stagnation. This >> >> period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time, >> > which >> >> passes, >> >> the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by >> > natural >> >> means. >> >> Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really >> > knowing, what >> >> they >> >> are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know they > are. >> >> The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of >> > assumption of >> >> authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the >> > original >> >> mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, >> > because the >> >> longer >> >> they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or > the >> > three >> >> lower >> >> bodies) asserts it self. >> >> Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. >> > Some >> >> certainly >> >> fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order to > serve >> > them. The >> >> people who joins these are at great pains to explain why they >> > consider, that >> >> they represent the same kind of teaching - and this is > important. >> > It is >> >> important, because it shows the Theosophist or the real >> > spiritually minded, >> >> very >> >> clearly, that the people who try to explain - are in fact > troubled >> > by >> >> conscience. Somewhere inside them, they know, that they are >> > identifying >> >> themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are >> > supported by >> >> their >> >> lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is too strong for >> > them. >> >> Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking- >> > patterns and >> >> systems. >> >> It is via the conscience, that one finds the path forward, - >> > thereby will be >> >> able to remove the limitations of the lower personality." >> >> >> >> And again: >> >> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, >> > not to >> >> support a >> >> system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in >> > which the >> >> Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of >> > ideas and >> >> movements. This seems important to understand and know about. >> >> >> >> My views is: >> >> Dead-letter teachings has never been the hallmark of real >> > theosophy. >> >> There is actually no need to use the very words "theosophy" or >> >> "Theosophical" >> >> when TODAY forwarding true and honest teachings (related to > time, >> > place and >> >> people mind you) >> >> about the Path or Atma-Vidya etc... >> >> Today a number of wellmeaning Theosophists forget too much to >> > CLEARLY point >> >> this out to Seekers they themselves teach or guide. >> >> >> >> What we don't need is the create yet a new set of branches each > of >> > them >> >> being sort of >> >> "Bible-collection"-studying sects accepting only dead-letter >> > teachings (as >> >> main teachings) >> >> containing the words "Theosophical" or "theosophy" as a > NECESSITY. >> >> And with each sect using their own Bible-collection. >> >> >> >> Another excerpt trying to some how escape business as usual: >> >> "So how is the development of The Theosophical Soceity and > various >> >> theosophical groups going to be in the future - IF - we as a >> > minimum base >> >> our views on my above email - while keeping the link to J.J. van >> > der Leeuw >> >> pamphlet in the first link in the above in mind? >> >> >> >> We could with some adavantage ponder on the following questions: >> >> 1. Who is (or was) the "second teacher(s)" - if any - within >> > Theosophy? - >> >> And will there be or has there been a third, fourth or fifth >> > teacher? >> >> 2. Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second >> > teacher" within >> >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a >> > theosophical >> >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and >> > psychological >> >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> 3. And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society >> > merely as an >> >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance > with >> > the >> >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? >> >> 4. Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance > of >> > the >> >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - > and >> > not >> >> knowing to be so? >> >> 5. Who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - and had success > in >> > building >> >> an marked increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 6. - And who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - but failed to > build >> > an marked >> >> increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 7. Is your conscience not telling you that a teaching which are >> > labelled as >> >> "secondary" is not as good as a teaching named "primary" - >> >> with a "primary" and up-to-date Teacher guiding you? (A Teacher >> > who is >> >> alive - and - not living in the past guiding you with "past" >> > teachings.) >> >> 8. Have you actually matured visibly as a Seeker beyond the >> > average >> >> fellow-human-beings level of consciuosness just by reading a few >> >> theosophical books or even one hundred of them? And do all > Seekers >> > who do >> >> that mature beyond that level? >> >> 9. Can real theosophical teaching happen in randomly collected >> > groups - >> >> where the listeners are not in harmony with each other, the >> > teacher, time, >> >> place and circumstances? (Are it just not merely information >> > stimulating the >> >> intellect which are being exchanged?) >> >> 9. Can the blind lead the blinder? (Maybe it is good to be > honest >> > about how >> >> blind one is.) >> >> 10. Do you not need a - real - teacher first? >> >> 11. Can Universal Brotherhood be created or is it just merely a >> > dream with >> >> all those theosophical sects (and Sisterhoods >:-)...) around in >> > the world? >> >> Sects because they do not openly tell the Seekers how they > relate >> > to other >> >> theosophical groups year 2004. >> >> 12. Will the Theosophical Societies and other theosophical > groups >> > create a >> >> good furtherance of its teachings through promotion of so- >> > called "spritiaul >> >> Master Revelations" presented or treated by various Theosophical >> > leaders as >> >> an authority? (What was good in the good old days - is maybe not >> > good >> >> today.) >> >> 13. Is the furtherance of the theosophical teachings based on >> > giving more >> >> emphasis to the opening of the spiritual Heart, love and > unselfsh >> > healing >> >> more than what can be termed "business-as-usual" or the > spiritual >> > support of >> >> emotional get-to-gethers? >> >> 14. How aught one to promote oneself as a Teacher of theosophy? >> > And how not? >> >> 15. How do I promote Theosophy at work? Through social-get- >> > togethers? >> >> >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> Answering these questions will provide material enough to write >> > several >> >> volumes of text. >> >> At this place we call Theos-Talk, we dare challenge leadership > and >> > how it >> >> aught to be used theosophically speaking. >> >> At various theosophical groups leadership are not allowed to be >> > challenged. >> >> Some of the reasons for this I think J.J. van der Leeuw has >> > presented in his >> >> still important pamphlet. Blavatsky was challenged and allowed > it >> > to happen >> >> to a very great extend." >> >> >> >> >> >> And again: >> >> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, >> > not to >> >> support a >> >> system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in >> > which the >> >> Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of >> > ideas and >> >> movements. This seems important to understand and know about. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> from >> >> M. Sufilight with a smile... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 12:40:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24329 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:39:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:39:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:39:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: H.P. Blavatsky: "An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust. . . . " X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=sOI1h2HV-NBCuqfYUq-RPUzaISvtQOcT_mkHZhpSfmtHxiWkZbxyqIzk X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell In "The Key to Theosophy" published in 1889, H.P.B.=20 made the following observations about the confusion, etc.=20 among many students of Theosophy, esotericism, occultism,=20 etc.: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Look around you and observe.=20 While two-thirds of civilized society ridicule the=20 mere notion that there is anything in Theosophy,=20 Occultism, Spiritualism, or in the Kabala, the=20 other third is composed of the most heterogeneous=20 and opposite elements.=20=20 Some believe in the mystical, and even in the=20 supernatural (!), but each believes in his own=20 way. Others will rush single-handed into the study=20 of the Kabala, Psychism, Mesmerism, Spiritualism,=20 or some form or another of Mysticism.=20 Result: no two men think alike, no two are agreed=20 upon any fundamental occult principles, though many=20 are those who claim for themselves the ultima thule=20 of knowledge, and would make outsiders believe that=20 they are full-blown adepts. . . . . Some limit ancient wisdom to the Kabala and the Jewish=20 Zohar. . . . .Others regard Swedenborg or Boehme as=20 the ultimate expressions of the highest wisdom; while=20 others again see in mesmerism the great secret of=20 ancient magic. One and all of those who put their=20 theory in practice are rapidly drifting, through ignorance,=20 into black magic.=20 Happy are those who escape from it, as they have neither=20 test nor criterion by which they can distinguish between=20 the true and the false. . . .=20 A portion of the true [Esoteric/Theosophical] sciences=20 is better than a mass of undigested and misunderstood=20 learning.=20 An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust. . . . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original 1889 edition, pp. 21-22=20 Is the situation any better or any worse today in 2005? Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 12:51:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83308 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=CsBPlfCBStKkRMjLiQHHmCofUA5plyuMYNlTylna807PkWbaSnTog1CN X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell In 1889, H.P. Blavatsky warned her students about=20 the following developments: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D . . . A new and rapidly growing danger. . . is threatening=20 . . . the spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and=20 knowledge. . . . I allude to those charlatanesque=20 imitations of Occultism and Theosophy. . . .=20 By pandering to the prejudices of people, and especially=20 by adopting the false ideas of a personal God and a=20 personal, carnalized Saviour, as the groundwork of their=20 teaching, the leaders of this 'swindle' (for such it is)=20 are endeavoring to draw men to them and in particular to=20 turn Theosophists from the true path. . . . A close examination will assuredly reveal. . .=20=20 materials largely stolen . . . from Theosophical writings . . . [and] distorted and falsified so as to be palmed=20 off on the unwary as revelations of new and undreamed of=20 truths.=20=20 But many will neither have the time nor the opportunity=20 for such a thorough investigation; and before they become=20 aware of the imposture they may be led far from the Truth. . . . Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the=20 garbled and distorted versions disfigured to suit the=20 prejudices and tastes of men in general. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Quoted from E.S. Instruction No. I., 1889. Do Theosophical students face similar situations in 2006? Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jan 01 12:56:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54293 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtAFg-0000H4-Ud for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:56:29 -0500 Message-ID: <43B841FC.6040107@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:56:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <92.349d1589.30e7faeb@cs.com> In-Reply-To: <92.349d1589.30e7faeb@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba6c90d6370e3df20c1fd4b3e03bb0e52ea2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=IOLDE7bIPQ0-dThFZBir7f2jXdovtSYnT9WpQj5LXxSUALM X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 samblo@cs.com wrote: > < According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22)<<< > > > 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? > 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna Bonus > Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as regards that. Well, this is part of what she said in Kinsgsford's obiturary: "She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes." Sounds like a pretty high opinion to me. Bart From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Jan 01 14:06:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19769 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.75.5342bce3 (16781) for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:05:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <75.5342bce3.30e9ac24@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:05:24 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=DzSSMcAqIDrnayPyJUc4uUlCCmS7Wcw6oeP184-CHmy8LEwASg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/1/2006 2:58:23 PM Central Standard Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: "She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes." Sounds like a pretty high opinion to me. Bart What would you expect HPB to say in an obituary? "She was a nutbar who nearly made us all look like complete morons and the Masters are so terribly glad she died?" Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From samblo@cs.com Sun Jan 01 16:15:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67173 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 00:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 00:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 00:15:46 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.ee.2306781b (3874) for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:15:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:15:24 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dallas, In your reply to Cass you Post an excerpt: <>H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.<< I would like to give a few examples to show it was otherwise: H. P. = Blavatsky - Chapter 12-Anna Kingsford 5th Rounder http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm >> According to K.H. in the Mahatma Letters, she was a "fifth rounder," a=20 technical theosophical term for those persons who have run ahead of the ave= rage=20 in evolutionary development, a fact of which she herself had more than a=20 suspicion. << << In the Mahatma Letters on pages 345-7, K.H. pays Anna Kingsford a high=20 tribute for her intuitive seership. Here is one sentence:=20 > Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity= =20 > of that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus sh= ut=20 > out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining= from=20 > behind the dark hills of exoteric religions. << Anna Bonus Kingsford was President of the Theosophical Lodge of London: >>Not long before Olcott reached London in 1884, a complication had arisen = in=20 the London Lodge in regard to the presidency. Mrs. Kingsford had held the=20 office for some time in response to the expressed wish of the Masters as=20 indicated to Mr. Sinnett, though H.P.B. had disapproved of her occupation o= f the post=20 notwithstanding that she was the Masters' choice for the time. >> H.P.B.'s notice of her death contains the following:=20 > She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and= =20 > philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes. .= . .=20 > The first and most important [of her books] was "The Perfect Way, or the= =20 > Finding of Christ," which gives the esoteric meaning of Christianity. It = sweeps=20 > away many of the difficulties that thoughtful readers of the Bible must c= ontend=20 > with in their endeavours to either understand or accept literally the sto= ry=20 >=20 > . . . the circle of her mystically-inclined friends will miss her greatly= ,=20 > for such women as she are not numerous in the same century. The world in= =20 > general has lost in Mrs. Kingsford one who can be very ill-spared in this= era of=20 > materialism. -- Lucifer, II, 78-9, March 1888 << Theosophical Society in America: Chapter 13=20 http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13/ >> As we sat there I felt the old signal of a message from the Master and s= aw=20 that she was listening. She said: "Judge, the Master asks me to try and gue= ss=20 what would be the most extraordinary thing he could order now?" I said, "Th= at=20 Mrs [Anna Kingsford] should be the President of the London Lodge." << >> Mrs. Anna Bonus Kingsford (1846=E2=80=931888), English mystical writer = and doctor=20 of medicine, was the author (in collaboration with Edward Maitland) of The= =20 Perfect Way; or, The Finding of Christ (1882), an esoteric interpretation o= f=20 Christianity. =E2=80=93Editor.]=20 ***she also Authored another below (John): Clothed With The= Sun Index http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/cws/index.htm Readers of this forum may be interested in the perspective of Yeats relativ= e=20 to Anna Bonus Kingsford ( I will only type the URL as my PC crashed earlier= =20 when I loaded the page, strictly a naunce of my PC not the Yeats Homepage) W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": The Hermetic Society http://www.yeatsvision.com/Herm.html Continueing: Anna Kingsfo= rd, Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists by Edward Maitland http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm >>The matter went no further at this time; but we were struck by learning=20 that Mary had been recognised by the mysterious chiefs of the Theosophical= =20 Society as "the greatest natural mystic of the present day, and countless a= ges in=20 advance of the great majority of mankind, the foremost of whom belong to th= e=20 last race of the fourth round, while she belongs to the first race of the f= ifth=20 round." << >>Respecting that Society, the then President of the English Branch, our=20 valued friend, C. C. Massey, wrote as follows: -=20 > "For the attitude of the Society towards all the religions of the world, = I=20 > may refer you to the enclosed paper, =E2=80=98Individuality of Branches,= =E2=80=99 now being=20 > issued, along with the enclosed circular, to all our members. I believe t= here=20 > would be much opposition among us to giving our own branch a sectarian=20 > designation or direction. One grand aim of our Society is to show the und= erlying,=20 > or esoteric, identity of all religious philosophies worthy of the name, a= nd,=20 > while respecting the particular forms or manifestations of the one truth,= to=20 > cut away the ground of sectarian antagonism which such partial or disguis= ed=20 > presentations appear to contain. In India, Olcott has busied himself much= with=20 > what I take to be a Buddhist propaganda, though I believe he would not ad= mit=20 > this. Anyhow, there can be no doubt whatever that to Christianity, as=20 > popularly understood and taught, we are all more or less opposed. We have= two=20 > beneficed clergymen of the Church of England among us, and they would pro= bably say=20 > that the popular form is capable of a true statement, and must be regarde= d=20 > as =E2=80=98dispensational.=E2=80=99 That is quite consistent with the di= scovery in it of a=20 > true system of doctrine, which, however, would be such a =E2=80=98new dep= arture=E2=80=99 as=20 > almost to amount to a second revelation. And that, I believe, would be th= e=20 > position accepted by yourselves as the writers of The Perfect Way. And I = think=20 > you will find the answer to the question, whether that position is=20 > inconsistent with our regard for the Indian teachings, in the paper about= the=20 > =E2=80=98Individuality of Branches.=E2=80=99 The liberty reserved to Bran= ches cannot be denied to=20 > individuals. I cannot, of course, conceal from myself that it is desirabl= e that=20 > our President should be in great sympathy with the acknowledged teachers = of the=20 > Society, - although, indeed, there is no one who is ready and able to tea= ch=20 > us whom we should not be ready and able to acknowledge. Certainly I shoul= d=20 > not accept the statement that we look to =E2=80=98Koot Hoomi,=E2=80=99 or= any one else, as the=20 > =E2=80=98ultimate source of illumination.=E2=80=99 But at present we are = studying in his=20 > school. It will be for our President to read to us the expositions which = come=20 > from that quarter, and of course we should look to her for a sympathetic,= and=20 > not a controversial, attitude towards them. That does not prevent her f= rom=20 > holding and pointing out any other aspect of truth, even in relation to t= hem. > "If I hear from Mrs. Kingsford, I may be able to satisfy her and you more= =20 > fully on these points in my reply to her. I infer from your letter that t= he=20 > return to London will not be just yet, if you find the suitable quarters = for her=20 > health in the Engadine. We should have to set off the hope for her=20 > restoration from this residence against the postponement of her appearanc= e among us. I=20 > most earnestly trust that the Providence which guards her work will also= =20 > secure her to us as its best agent." >=20 The following is from the circular in which Mr. Massey notified the Society= =20 of his intention to nominate Mrs. Kingsford as its President: - >=20 > "I have now to give notice of an important proposition, which I shall sub= mit=20 > to the general meeting, in the earnest hope that it may meet with general= =20 > and cordial approval, and in the belief that its adoption will conduce to= the=20 > future vitality, progress, and use of the Society. It is that Dr. Anna=20 > Kingsford shall be elected President of the Society for the ensuing year.= From=20 > information I have received, I think there can be no doubt that this choi= ce would=20 > be acceptable to those with whom we are most anxious to come into direct= =20 > relations, while the knowledge many of ourselves possess of the genius, m= oral=20 > force, and entire devotion to spiritual ideals of this accomplished lady = seems=20 > to designate her as the natural leader of a Society with beliefs and aims= such=20 > as ours. Nor are Dr. Kingsford=E2=80=99s scientific attainments an unimpo= rtant=20 > consideration to the body of students who see and desire to trace in occu= lt=20 > phenomena an extension of the range of Natural Philosophy. It may also be= =20 > allowable, in a private letter like the present, to refer to the well-kno= wn fact that=20 > she is one of the literary authors of that remarkable work, The Perfect W= ay,=20 > or the Finding of Christ. The general resemblance of the ideas there put= =20 > forward to the teachings which we are studying has been expressly acknowl= edged by=20 > our Indian authorities. It is, however, scarcely necessary to observe tha= t=20 > our selection of Dr. Kingsford will not imply unqualified acceptance of a= ll=20 > her published opinions. We could never have at our head any marked=20 > individuality, if members supposed that in electing a President they were= so committing=20 > themselves. On the other hand, as a result of this step, we may expect=20 > important accessions to our ranks, and a union of forces which have latel= y been=20 > tending in the same direction. It is, perhaps, quite unnecessary to urge = a=20 > recommendation which will, I believe, be generally acceptable; but to all= who may=20 > think that my long connection with the Society, and intimate relations wi= th=20 > those most completely identified with its interest, entitle my opinion to= any=20 > consideration, I may say that I have not decided on making this proposal= =20 > without the most careful deliberation and consultation, and that I regard= its=20 > adoption as of vital importance. It only remains to add on this subject, = that Dr.=20 > Kingsford herself has, I rejoice to say, given a conditional consent to t= he=20 > nomination."<< >>The election of Mary as President, and myself as Vice-President, of what= =20 was subsequently called the London Lodge of the Theosophical Society took p= lace=20 at the first meeting in 1883, which fell on Sunday, January 7. We discovere= d=20 in the course of the day that it was the Festival of the Three Kings of the= =20 East; whereupon Mary made the following entry in her Diary: - > On the 7th of this month I was elected President of the British=20 > Theosophical Society. The 7th was Epiphany Sunday, the Festival of the Ki= ngs. A strange=20 > coincidence and augury. >=20 > "21 Avenue Carnot, Paris, January 11, 1883.<< =20 =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 17:54:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21732 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtEtR-0006Iz-Ki; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:53:50 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:53:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00cc01c60f3f$5c82f380$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79109b3ef3d2ba5e5f41be230daccd0822350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=5ccRB4hOTxPBbXHwcvXkq7FIOrzAqHcM0nuLMIQqeY0bZA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Kindly: Mrs. Kingsford Dear John: Many thanks for the extensive quotes relating to Mrs. Kingsford. They are valuable for our records. Speaking of what is today termed "Theosophy" -- which is deemed by some to include "Theosophical history" -- let me say: -- =20 I know little of this beyond what is recorded in the various documents quoted -- concerning the interactions between early members of the T S, students of THEOSOPHY and chelas of the Masters, which had been drawn together by their Karma to help or hinder HPB and Masters' work. This produced the developments recorded in and about the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in the early days.=20 I would venture to say that as long as HPB (with the Masters' backing) was at the helm, the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY and the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT coincided. When HPB was forced out of India in 1884/5 things changed. Damodar reported that the Masters' influence was ebbing in Adyar. Soon thereafter he left. Adyar remained only a "shell." Any one can guess at wha= t followed. The center of activity (HPB) was removed to Europe and then to London. In America the work of Judge produced an enormous success for the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY -- with over 3,000 members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY -- more than anywhere else. I find a careful reading of the early volumes of the pamphlets, books and magazines then issued provide us all with the kind of hindsight an historia= n enjoys.=20 Also, to record these is one thing, to interpret them is another. I find on the whole, that interpretations without the actors presence (to explain themselves) usually leads present day imagination as to motives, far astray= . I am NOT a historian of personal events and personal opinions. So I am quite limited to such material as may have been printed or issued by contemporary writers, participants and observers. I am no interested in offering my opinions, as the printed words speak now for those who have died.=20 To my mind this kind of review and activity has very little to do with pure THEOSOPHY. Most of it is the result of the interaction and friction of personalities. It is, for me, a dead end and a time waste. Lets work in the present for the future, I say. I do investigate all I can find that directly relates to THEOSOPHY -- to make sure I understand and can grasp its premises, basis, philosophy and present operation -- considering it as a statement of FACTS and LAWS in Nature (Universe, and our World). So far I can state I am satisfied with the coherence I have found exists there. But my approach has always been critical, seeking to make sure that the whole is operating and united in concept and presentation. Of necessity, (to answer correspondence) I have had to accumulate and file documents and records relating to the books: -- THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1950) THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1925) and the series of articles that were printed in the very early volumes of THEOSOPHY magazine Los Angeles when Mr. Crosbie edited it. MAHATMAS AND THEIR MESSAGE , Vols, 2, 3, 4 THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT, Vols. 8 - 10 and covering a later period: AFTERMATH, Vol. 23=09 =09=09=09 Was it not Alaya who offered this quotation?=20 Best wishes for 2006, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: samblo@cs.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:15 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Kindly: Mrs. Kingsford Dallas, In your reply to Cass you Post an excerpt: <>H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.<< I would like to give a few examples to show it was otherwise: ------------------------------------------------- 1 A HREF=3Dhttp://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm H. P. Blavatsky - Chapter 12-Anna Kingsford 5th Rounder http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm According to K.H. in the Mahatma Letters, she was a "fifth rounder," a=20 technical theosophical term for those persons who have run ahead of the average=20 in evolutionary development, a fact of which she herself had more than a=20 suspicion.=20 -------------------------------------------- 2 In the Mahatma Letters on pages 345-7, K.H. pays Anna Kingsford a high=20 tribute for her intuitive seership. Here is one sentence:=20 Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity= =20 of that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus shu= t out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining from=20 behind the dark hills of exoteric religions.=20 ----------------------------------------- 3 Anna Bonus Kingsford was President of the Theosophical Lodge of London: Not long before Olcott reached London in 1884, a complication had arisen in= =20 the London Lodge in regard to the presidency. Mrs. Kingsford had held the=20 office for some time in response to the expressed wish of the Masters as=20 indicated to Mr. Sinnett, though H.P.B. had disapproved of her occupation o= f the post=20 notwithstanding that she was the Masters' choice for the time. ----------------------------------------------------------- 4 H.P.B.'s notice of her death contains the following:=20 She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and=20 philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes. . = . .=20 The first and most important [of her books] was "The Perfect Way, or the=20 Finding of Christ," which gives the esoteric meaning of Christianity. It sweeps=20 away many of the difficulties that thoughtful readers of the Bible must contend=20 with in their endeavours to either understand or accept literally the stor= y =20 . . . the circle of her mystically-inclined friends will miss her greatly,= =20 for such women as she are not numerous in the same century. The world in=20 general has lost in Mrs. Kingsford one who can be very ill-spared in this era of=20 materialism. -- Lucifer, II, 78-9, March 1888 << A HREF=3D"http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13= /"> Theosophical Society in America: Chapter 13=20 http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13/ As we sat there I felt the old signal of a message from the Master and saw= =20 that she was listening. She said: "Judge, the Master asks me to try and guess=20 what would be the most extraordinary thing he could order now?" I said, "That=20 Mrs [Anna Kingsford] should be the President of the London Lodge."=20 ------------------------------------- Mrs. Anna Bonus Kingsford (1846-1888), English mystical writer and doctor=20 of medicine, was the author (in collaboration with Edward Maitland) of The= =20 Perfect Way; or, The Finding of Christ (1882), an esoteric interpretation o= f Christianity. -Editor.]=20 ***she also Authored another below (John): Clothed With The Sun Index http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/cws/index.htm Readers of this forum may be interested in the perspective of Yeats relativ= e to Anna Bonus Kingsford ( I will only type the URL as my PC crashed earlier= =20 when I loaded the page, strictly a naunce of my PC not the Yeats Homepage) W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": The Hermetic Society http://www.yeatsvision.com/Herm.html Continueing: A HREF=3D"http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm">Anna Kingsford= , Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists by Edward Maitland http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm The matter went no further at this time; but we were struck by learning=20 that Mary had been recognised by the mysterious chiefs of the Theosophical= =20 Society as "the greatest natural mystic of the present day, and countless ages in=20 advance of the great majority of mankind, the foremost of whom belong to th= e last race of the fourth round, while she belongs to the first race of the fifth=20 round."=20 Respecting that Society, the then President of the English Branch, our=20 valued friend, C. C. Massey, wrote as follows: -=20 "For the attitude of the Society towards all the religions of the world, I= =20 may refer you to the enclosed paper, 'Individuality of Branches,' now bein= g issued, along with the enclosed circular, to all our members. I believe there=20 would be much opposition among us to giving our own branch a sectarian=20 designation or direction. One grand aim of our Society is to show the underlying,=20 or esoteric, identity of all religious philosophies worthy of the name, and,=20 while respecting the particular forms or manifestations of the one truth, to=20 cut away the ground of sectarian antagonism which such partial or disguise= d presentations appear to contain. In India, Olcott has busied himself much with=20 what I take to be a Buddhist propaganda, though I believe he would not admit=20 this. Anyhow, there can be no doubt whatever that to Christianity, as=20 popularly understood and taught, we are all more or less opposed. We have two=20 beneficed clergymen of the Church of England among us, and they would probably say=20 that the popular form is capable of a true statement, and must be regarded= =20 as 'dispensational.' That is quite consistent with the discovery in it of = a true system of doctrine, which, however, would be such a 'new departure' a= s almost to amount to a second revelation. And that, I believe, would be the= =20 position accepted by yourselves as the writers of The Perfect Way. And I think=20 you will find the answer to the question, whether that position is=20 inconsistent with our regard for the Indian teachings, in the paper about the=20 'Individuality of Branches.' The liberty reserved to Branches cannot be denied to=20 individuals. I cannot, of course, conceal from myself that it is desirable that=20 our President should be in great sympathy with the acknowledged teachers o= f the=20 Society, - although, indeed, there is no one who is ready and able to teac= h us whom we should not be ready and able to acknowledge. Certainly I should= =20 not accept the statement that we look to 'Koot Hoomi,' or any one else, as the=20 'ultimate source of illumination.' But at present we are studying in his=20 school. It will be for our President to read to us the expositions which come=20 from that quarter, and of course we should look to her for a sympathetic, and=20 not a controversial, attitude towards them. That does not prevent her from=20 holding and pointing out any other aspect of truth, even in relation to them. "If I hear from Mrs. Kingsford, I may be able to satisfy her and you more= =20 fully on these points in my reply to her. I infer from your letter that th= e return to London will not be just yet, if you find the suitable quarters for her=20 health in the Engadine. We should have to set off the hope for her=20 restoration from this residence against the postponement of her appearance among us. I=20 most earnestly trust that the Providence which guards her work will also=20 secure her to us as its best agent." =20 The following is from the circular in which Mr. Massey notified the Society= =20 of his intention to nominate Mrs. Kingsford as its President: - =20 "I have now to give notice of an important proposition, which I shall submit=20 to the general meeting, in the earnest hope that it may meet with general= =20 and cordial approval, and in the belief that its adoption will conduce to the=20 future vitality, progress, and use of the Society. It is that Dr. Anna=20 Kingsford shall be elected President of the Society for the ensuing year. From=20 information I have received, I think there can be no doubt that this choic= e would=20 be acceptable to those with whom we are most anxious to come into direct=20 relations, while the knowledge many of ourselves possess of the genius, moral=20 force, and entire devotion to spiritual ideals of this accomplished lady seems=20 to designate her as the natural leader of a Society with beliefs and aims such=20 as ours. Nor are Dr. Kingsford's scientific attainments an unimportant=20 consideration to the body of students who see and desire to trace in occul= t phenomena an extension of the range of Natural Philosophy. It may also be= =20 allowable, in a private letter like the present, to refer to the well-know= n fact that=20 she is one of the literary authors of that remarkable work, The Perfect Way,=20 or the Finding of Christ. The general resemblance of the ideas there put=20 forward to the teachings which we are studying has been expressly acknowledged by=20 our Indian authorities. It is, however, scarcely necessary to observe that= =20 our selection of Dr. Kingsford will not imply unqualified acceptance of al= l her published opinions. We could never have at our head any marked=20 individuality, if members supposed that in electing a President they were so committing=20 themselves. On the other hand, as a result of this step, we may expect=20 important accessions to our ranks, and a union of forces which have lately been=20 tending in the same direction. It is, perhaps, quite unnecessary to urge a= =20 recommendation which will, I believe, be generally acceptable; but to all who may=20 think that my long connection with the Society, and intimate relations wit= h those most completely identified with its interest, entitle my opinion to any=20 consideration, I may say that I have not decided on making this proposal=20 without the most careful deliberation and consultation, and that I regard its=20 adoption as of vital importance. It only remains to add on this subject, that Dr.=20 Kingsford herself has, I rejoice to say, given a conditional consent to th= e nomination." The election of Mary as President, and myself as Vice-President, of what=20 was subsequently called the London Lodge of the Theosophical Society took place=20 at the first meeting in 1883, which fell on Sunday, January 7. We discovere= d in the course of the day that it was the Festival of the Three Kings of the= =20 East; whereupon Mary made the following entry in her Diary: - On the 7th of this month I was elected President of the British=20 Theosophical Society. The 7th was Epiphany Sunday, the Festival of the Kings. A strange=20 coincidence and augury. =20 "21 Avenue Carnot, Paris, January 11, 1883. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 18:50:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5756 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 02:50:14 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV. Edited by Robert Crosbie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=A2xeb9pHT1Gp-S8jqb5ilcxECCM2lKdVXMncXrOFMsK8OoUNGKD9PBPS X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV Edited by Robert Crosbie In 1909, Robert Crosbie (1849-1919) and a group of=20 Theosophical students founded the United Lodge of=20 Theosophists in Los Angeles, California. In November=20 1912, Mr. Crosbie founded the magazine "Theosophy,"=20 which he continued to edit until his death.=20=20 Read more at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophymag.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From compiler@wisdomworld.org Sun Jan 01 21:37:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54330 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 05:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 05:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ams011.ftl.affinity.com) (216.219.253.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 05:37:16 -0000 Received: from [68.33.22.128] ([68.33.22.128]:14087 "EHLO wisdomworld.org") by ams011.ftl.affinity.com with ESMTP id S362021AbWABFhP (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:37:15 -0500 Message-ID: <43B8CA3A.2696DB52@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:37:46 -0600 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.219.253.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Compiler Subject: "The Theosophical Movement"--"The Rising Cycle"--"Aftermath" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46028585; y=g1R1CY5R4JzPRFYZhR_Wa-Q1uLpf8cGfnbM4JNmXtw7qruRNMUdz X-Yahoo-Profile: john_compiler_wisdomworld HERE'S SOME VERY IMPORTANT THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY: I hope that many readers, especially newcomers to theosophy, will find these three series of articles from THEOSOPHY magazine to be very informative and useful: (1) The Theosophical Movement (34-part series: 1920-22) (2) The Rising Cycle (13-part series: 1926-27) (3) Aftermath (10-part series: 1935) They are found in this link that goes to the 14th of 18 sections found on the "Additional" articles index page of my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#14 ========================================== Dear newcomers to Theosophy: I sincerely do hope that my web site offers a well-rounded overall view of Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement. The 3 main links to everything on it are found below. Please know that I'm only the compiler of all the articles found on my web site; I'm not a scholar; and also that I personally do not like to take part in conversations, even though I do hope that what I present from time to time will help a little in the discussions being carried on by others. So please do not be insulted when I do not respond if someone addresses me, or addresses anything that is found in any of the articles on my web site; I leave that for others to deal with if they want to -- whether pro, con, neutral, friendly or unfriendly. John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: WisdomWorld.org web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org This is the Index page of the "Introductory", "Setting the Stage" book, which was especially compiled for newcomers to Theosophy: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added (which contains 18 sections that can each be clicked on at the top of the page in order to go directly down to them, as well as to get the link to any particular section that you may want to use in a posting on a discussion board, or in an e-mail to someone): http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html "PUBLIC & PRIVATE ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT FORUM": This next link is to the most updated version of my economic proposal to humanity, a practical project to help our suffering world that I also consider to be Theosophical. In it you will find a new and unique, but mostly unknown, economic system model that might be able to put an end to involuntary poverty on earth. How? It presents a way to fully finance everything of importance that is needed in every nation. Because of this it's well worth pointing to. Please note that, for strategic reasons, of wanting it to have the best chance of being accepted by all peoples worldwide, no matter what their religious, philosophical, and scientific beliefs are, I've put it on a completely different web site; it contains no mention of, or link to, the Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement that is presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org ------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 02 03:57:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91530 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtOId-0006lN-I2; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 06:56:28 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 03:56:11 -0800 Message-ID: <00d901c60f93$8c5be680$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6