From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Fri Jul 01 00:53:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40069 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 07:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 07:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 07:53:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 07:53:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 07:53:06 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 07:53:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <149c01c57a6e$5b56e5e0$152ca8c0@thebeast> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2509 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Theos-World Friends in Mental Plane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=tIhuGgaF-ObEy4UHQnS9CsBIOOza_OD5TZa3PX2sTBzS_KeD X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > What is that for an idiotic poppycock? > Fairy tales for hysterical, non-thinking male and female aunts. It doesn't look like valueable kind of refutation. Though HPB gave no such teaching, yet the idea about ego acting through the thoughtforms doesn't contradict it and may be taken as a hypothesis, untill it shall be replaced by a better one. HPB wrote: "The Devachanee lives its intermediate cycle between two incarnations surrounded by everything it had aspired to in vain, and in the companionship of everyone it loved on earth. ... Q. But this is more than simple delusion, it is an existence of insane hallucinations! A. From your standpoint it may be, not so from that of philosophy. Besides which, is not our whole terrestrial life filled with such delusions?" (Key to Theosophy) Devachanic existence really is no more an illusion than our earthly existence, but most of us would agree that the latter gives us the useful experience needed for our evolution. Now, as according to HPB average devachanic state lasts more that 1000 years and we pass most of our time there, it is impossible that we passed all that time quite in vain. There should be no obsolete parts in nature, and devachanees and their thoughtforms, (for the quotation suggests the idea of thoughtforms), seem to be exactly such obsolete and idle parts, unless we admit that they undergo some evolution. The proposed idea with ego acting in thoughtform as far as the perfectness of the form permits it seems quite reasonable for it provides fastest possible evolution for all egos involved, and also explains HOW the devachan is not more illusion than a physical life. Wee see the thoughtforms of our friends according to our ideas about them, and their egos can act through them while it conforms our notions about them, so they cannot hurt us, yet they can do for us anything good that we permit. The ego in devachan cannot communicate with the earth plane, as HPB rightly remarks, but it doesn't interfere it to communicate on its own plane - in that extent which its own illusions permit. The thoughtforms seem to be the natural filter for this action. We have such a filter on the physical plane, it's our body imposed by our physical karma, so why there can't be a similar filter created by other kind of our karma? There are no proof for this theory, yet it seems to me quite plausible untill the better one will be proposed. From ringding@online.de Fri Jul 01 00:55:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14432 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 07:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 07:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 07:55:01 -0000 Received: from p54BF8D2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.141.43] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1DoGMW2Ym0-0004pI; Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:55:00 +0200 Message-ID: <006301c57e12$45b247f0$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:55:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World The Jewish origin of Theosophy? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=GPLGHTBd8eUJBz-G5oxMz4Jqpn50acv2CISaZTWBb5UkzYjDQcg5lMEL7w X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>I would think that it excludes "zion" for it seems to have quite different meaning from dhyana & zen. Really? Why? I think Zion or Sion (lat.-gr.) is exactly in Hebrew what is also meant with Dhyana or Zen: A city on a hill, the chosen city of god and his people. I can't see any difference in content between the terms, even in its materialized today explanation, nor did you expalin the phonetical identity. Is it an accident? The schools of Dzyan are also on a hill as every esoteric school. Wisdom and meditation are the usual translation for Dzyan and that is also exactly what is the business of god/gods and his chosen people. Frank From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Jul 01 01:26:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51144 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 08:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 08:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 08:26:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 08:25:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 08:25:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 08:25:34 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6377 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.39 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 211.28.163.113 From: "silva_cass" Subject: Deep Impact X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=e1Zsmw3y6fhGKMDTaPBohxjquW7sl47hW73kmQBIJ6dIu5TNkw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Although I havent listened to this as yet it looks interesting=20 enough to post and the native elders agree with what HPB said was=20 the nature of comets.=20=20 Cass Top NASA Scientist Share Their Thoughts on "Deep Impact"=20 Mission "live" on ECTV=20 by Mitch Battros =96 ECTV =20 I have now hosted two shows with some of the top minds and "inside"=20 research investigative scientists who have been assigned to NASA -=20 JPL "Deep Impact" mission. Most of our discussion was directed=20 towards the basic foundation and general premise of the mission. My=20 apologies for not advertising in advance. It has been quite the busy=20 week.=20 =20 Deep Impact\'s primary scientific theme is to understand the=20 differences between the interior of a cometary nucleus and its=20 surface. Cometary scientists are convinced, albeit on the basis of=20 little or no observational data, that the surface layers of the=20 nuclei are highly evolved. Numerous perihelion passages can lead to=20 significant loss of ice from the outer-most layers; if comets are as=20 porous as they are generally presumed to be, then this can lead to=20 significant changes in the ice.=20 =20 What I found far more intriguing, is when NASA scientist Casey Lisse=20 stated on ECTV's special Wednesday June 29th show "live" on-air:=20 (Lisse)"in part, the (Deep Impact) mission wants to see what will=20 happen just in case a NEA (near earth asteroid) is on a collision=20 course with Earth, and DoD (dept. of defense) is ordered to send up=20 missiles to slow down the asteroid, or to push it to a new=20 trajectory". It was one of those "what did I just hear" moments.=20 Every now and then, one gets these pearls of truth "live" on radio.=20 When it does, someone like me just sits back, smiles from ear to=20 ear, and gives a high five to empty space. J Under my breath I am=20 looking at my sound man thinking "you did get that, didn't you?"=20 =20 In a second interview with NASA scientist Lucy McFadden, on=20 Thursday's show, another pearl came through. We had a discussion on=20 ancient text and the concern Native elders have over shooting at a=20 comet. McFadden tells us "live" on-air: (McFadden) "NASA is aware of=20 the needs and perspective of elders, and also know of their belief=20 in the sacred nature of comets. We know many ancient tribes are=20 aware comets hold clues to the beginning of the solar system, and we=20 scientists believe the same thing and therefore, are sacred to the=20 scientist. The comet is sharing its secrets with us, and we have a=20 great deal of respect for this gift. We also have a great respect=20 for the many diverse cultures who share our world."=20 =20 Well now, it is good to know NASA is paying attention. In fact, as=20 you will see in "Solar Rain", some NASA, and other government agency=20 scientists are coming forward and more openly disclosing their=20 utilization of ancient (wisdom) text into current formulated=20 hypothesis.=20 =20 Special Note:=20 Because I was tardy in announcing the dates of my last two guest,=20 and due to its fascinating and richly filled information on "real- time" events, I am making Wednesday's special interview with NASA=20 scientist Casey Lisse free to everyone. For all ECTV members, you=20 can access the archive to these two shows, and recent shows, on=20 our "Recent Audio Files" page.=20 =20 Casey Lisse Interview:=20 http://www.earthchangestv.net/Audio/caseylisse62905.mp3 =20 =20 Important "Deep Impact" links and information: =20 "Deep Impact Mission" Home Page:=20 http://deepimpact.umd.edu/home/index.html =20 NASA Deep Impact "live" Feed:=20 http://www.nasa.gov/55644main_NASATV_Windows.asx =20 Webcast Details: All Times Pacific=20 =20 * July 1, 10 a.m. - Pre-impact briefing=20 =20 * July 3, 11 a.m. - Pre-impact update=20 =20 * July 3, 8:30 p.m. - NASA TV encounter coverage begin=20=20 =20 * July 4, 10:52 p.m. - Expected time of impact =20 * July 4, 1 a.m. - Post-impact briefing =20 * July 4, 11 a.m. - Post-impact press conference =20 =20 Earth Changes TV - Radio Hour =20 Every Tuesday and Thursday from 9 PM to 10 PM (Pacific). Go to the=20 ECTV home page and click on "Listen Live" which sits at the top=20 right of the page.=20 =20 Tuesday June 28th =96 Adam Rubel =96 We will discuss Adam's numerous=20 trips to the Guatemala jungle and home of Carlos Barrios. Adam also=20 has some words to say about the coming date July 18th 2005. It seems=20 the counsel of Mayan Elders has called for an intense meeting which=20 is related to upcoming Earth Changes of what is suggested to be at a=20 higher pitch than what we have witnessed this century.=20=20 Website: http://www.sacredroad.org=20 =20 Wednesday June 29th =96 Casey Lisse =96 NASA "Deep Impact" Mission=20 Scientist. His mission is the measurement of the physical properties=20 of cometary nuclei using radio, IR, and optical observations.=20 Measurement of the composition, particle size distribution, and=20 emission history of cometary dust using dynamical modeling and=20 optical/IR imaging photometry. Study of the thermal behavior of=20 asteroids and the interplanetary dust cloud. Phenomenological study=20 of the comet-asteroid transition and fragmenting comets. X-ray=20 emission from comets. Seek evidence for cometary gas and dust in exo- solar systems. Website: http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/bio-clisse.html =20 Thursday June 30th =96 Lucy McFadden =96 NASA "Deep Impact" Mission=20 Scientist. Lucy is an Associate Research Scientist for the=20 University of Maryland Astronomy Department and an expert on=20 reflectance spectroscopy. She has published many papers in=20 professional journals and books, held several elected positions and=20 committee appointments, and is the recipient of multiple awards. She=20 is managing the mission\'s outreach and archiving activities.=20 Asteroid 3066 McFadden is named for her contributions. Website: http://deepimpact.umd.edu/mission/bio-lmcfadden.html =20 =20 =20 "Solar Rain": http://earthchangestv.com/store/product_info.php? products_id=3D28 =20 Subscribe To ECTV For Full Access:=20 http://www.earthchangestv.com/subscribe.php =20 Receive Free ECTV Newsletter:=20 http://www.earthchangestv.com/newsletter.php =20 Photo Gallery: http://www.earthchangestv.com/gallery/ =20 About Mitch: http://www.earthchangestv.com/aboutmitch.php =20 Survival Tips: http://www.earthchangestv.com/survival/index.php =20 =20 Mitch Battros Producer - Earth Changes TV http://www.earthchangestv.com =20 =20 From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Fri Jul 01 02:45:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1870 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 09:45:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 09:45:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 09:45:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 09:44:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2005 09:44:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:44:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006301c57e12$45b247f0$152ca8c0@thebeast> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 414 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Theos-World The Jewish origin of Theosophy? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=w5zd01zo-XCi5BR5_yc4q10m8I5Ui_OOdfJ9DGobZTPV1uUX X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >> In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > I think Zion or Sion (lat.-gr.) is exactly in Hebrew what is > also meant with Dhyana or Zen: A city on a hill, the chosen city > of god and his people. The correspondence is too loose. There are more exact correspondences to this idea in sanskrit: sukhavati, or Tushita (pure land of Buddha), or different paradises of gods for their followers. From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jul 01 05:00:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57216 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 12:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 12:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 12:00:10 -0000 Received: from [209.179.146.141] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DoKBX-0001rm-Lf; Fri, 01 Jul 2005 07:59:59 -0400 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 04:59:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c57e34$650e91e0$8d92b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7963415f66e9bec348052b681df7ac0178350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Friends in Mental Plane X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=e6Bt4BukslSA0Lt_g6VJebpqhHovBMaZ9sQGD-p-lRtwww X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 June 30 2005 Dear K: Perhaps this may answer:=20=20 Theosophy teaches: DEVACHAN A LETTER to the editor from Holland upon this subject deserves reply, as is must give utterance to the questions of many other students. The complaint in this letter is that when one goes to Devachan much time is lost away from earth life, where otherwise unselfish work for others might be continued by instantly returning to it after death. The reason given is that Devachan is an illusion, while the so-called illusions of earthly existence are in such a sense real that they are preferable to those of Devachan. In illustration of this, the supposed case is given of a parent i= n Devachan imagining that the beloved child is also there, when, in fact, the child not yet physically dead remains on earth perhaps in misery or leading a life of vice. This is the root of the objection - the supposed illusionar= y character of Devachan as compared to earth-life. Now these feelings are always due to the thirst for life in the form which presently is most known to us, - that is, in a physical body. We cannot argue Devachan away any more than we can the necessity of incarnation upon this earth; the one is as philosophically necessary as is the other.=20 A very easy way out of the difficulty - which arises almost wholly from our feelings - would be to calmly accept the law as it stands, being willing to take whatever may be our fate, whether that be in Devachan or in this earth-life.=20 Our likes and dislikes can have no effect on the course of nature, but they may have an effect on ourselves which will be far from beneficial. For the dwelling upon pleasure or the constant desire to fly from "pain not yet come" will inevitably create Karmic causes which we would wish to avoid. But perhaps there are some considerations on the subject of Devachan which may be of use. In the first place, I have never believed that the period given by Mr. Sinnett in Esoteric Buddhism of fifteen hundred years for the stay in that state was a fixed fact in nature. It might be fifteen minutes as well as fifteen hundred years. But it is quite likely that for the majority of those who so constantly wish for a release and for an enjoyment of heaven, the period would be more than fifteen hundred years. Indeed, the Hindu Scriptures give many special ceremonies for the attainment of heaven, or the regions of Indra, which is Devachan; and those ceremonies or practices are said to cause a stay in Indraloka "for years of infinite number." The first question, however, must be "What is the cause for passing into Devachan?" Some have said that it is good Karma or good acts that take us and keep us there, but this is a very incomplete reply. Of course, in the sense that it is happiness to go into that state, it may be called good Karma. But it does not follow that the man whose life is good, passed in constant unselfish work for others without repining, and free from desire t= o have somewhere his reward, will go to Devachan. Yet his Karma must be good; it must act on him, however, in other lives, for the earth-life is the plac= e where such Karma has its operation. But if at the same time that he is thus working for others he wishes for release or for some place or time when and where he may have rest, then, of course, he must go to Devachan for a perio= d which will be in proportion to the intensity of those desires. Again, it should not be forgotten that the soul must have some rest. Were it, before becoming bright as the diamond, hard as adamant, and strong as steel, to go on working, working through earth-life after earth-life withou= t a break between, it must at last succumb to the strain and come to nothing. Nature therefore has provided for it a place of rest -- in Devachan; and that we should thankfully accept if it falls to our lot.=20 But does Devachan suffer in the comparison made between it and this life on earth? To me it seems not. Human life is as great an illusion as any. To th= e sage Ribhu, Vishnu said it was the longest-lived reign of fancy. To say tha= t it is a terrible thing to think of a mother in Devachan enjoying its bliss while the child is suffering on earth, is to prefer one illusion over another, to hug a philosophical error to the breast. Both states are out of the true, while the Ego, who is the real witness, sees the lower personalit= y struggling with these phantoms while it, whether the body be living or its other parts be in Devachan, enjoys eternal felicity. It sits on high unmoved, immovable.=20 The great verse in the Isa-Upanishad settles this matter for me in these words: "What room is there for sorrow and what for doubt in him who knows that all spiritual beings are the same in kind, though differing in degree.= " Therefore if I believe this, I must also know that, no matter whether I and my best beloved are in Devachan or on earth, they and I must forever partak= e of the highest development attained by the greatest of sages, for, as they and I are spiritual beings, we must have communion forever on the higher planes of our being. Then, again, the fact seems to be lost sight of that each night we go into = a sort of Devachan - the dream state or sleep without dream. The loving mother, no matter how unfortunate or evil her child, must sleep, and in tha= t state she may have dreams of her loved ones around her in just the very condition of mind and body she would have them enjoy. If Devachan be objectionable, why not also rebel against our necessary sleep which acts on our physical frame to give it rest, as Devachan does upon our more ethereal parts? Lying unnoticed at the foot of this matter is the question of time. It goes to the very root of the objection, for the aversion to the stay in Devachan is based upon the conception of a period of time. This period - given or supposed as 1,500 years - is another great illusion which can be easily proved to be so. What we call time, measured by our seconds and minutes and hours, is not necessarily actual time itself. It is not the ultimate precedence and succession of moments in the abstract. For us it depends on and flows from the revolutions of our solar orb, and even with that standar= d it can be shown that we do not apprehend it correctly. We speak of seconds, but those are such as our watchmakers give us in the watch. They might be made longer or shorter. They are arrived at through a division of a diurnal solar revolution, the observation of which not necessarily mathematically accurate. If we lived on Mercury - where we must believe intelligent beings live - our conception of time would be different= . >From our childhood's experience we know that even in this life our appreciation of the passage of time rises and falls, for in early youth the 12 months from one Christmas to another seemed very, very long, while now they pass all too quickly.=20 And from watching the mental processes in dreams we know that, in the space of time taken for a bell to drop from the table to the floor, one may dream through a whole lifetime, with all the incidents of each day and hour packe= d into such a limited period. Who can tell but that in a Devachanic state of three months the person may go through experiences that seem to cover thousands of years? If so, why not say for him - since time as we know it i= s an illusion - that he was in Devachan for those thousands? Devachan, however, is not a meaningless or useless state. In it we are rested; that part of us which could not bloom under the chilling skies of earth-life bursts forth into flower and goes back with us to another life stronger and more a part of our nature than before; our strength is revived for another journey between deaths. Why shall we repine that nature kindly aids us in the interminable struggle; why thus ever keep the mind revolving about this petty personality and its good or evil fortune?=20 W.Q.J. Path, September, 1890 =20 Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Konstantin Zaitzev Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 12:53 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Friends in Mental Plane >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > What is that for an idiotic poppycock? > Fairy tales for hysterical, non-thinking male and female aunts. It doesn't look like valueable kind of refutation. Though HPB gave no such teaching, yet the idea about ego acting=20 through the thoughtforms doesn't contradict it and may be taken as a=20 hypothesis, untill it shall be replaced by a better one. HPB wrote: "The Devachanee lives its intermediate cycle between two=20 incarnations surrounded by everything it had aspired to in vain, and=20 in the companionship of everyone it loved on earth. ... Q. But this is more than simple delusion, it is an existence of insane=20 hallucinations! A. From your standpoint it may be, not so from that of philosophy.=20 Besides which, is not our whole terrestrial life filled with such=20 delusions?" (Key to Theosophy) Devachanic existence really is no more an illusion than our earthly=20 existence, but most of us would agree that the latter gives us the=20 useful experience needed for our evolution. Now, as according to HPB average devachanic state lasts more that 1000=20 years and we pass most of our time there, it is impossible that we=20 passed all that time quite in vain. There should be no obsolete parts=20 in nature, and devachanees and their thoughtforms, (for the quotation=20 suggests the idea of thoughtforms), seem to be exactly such obsolete=20 and idle parts, unless we admit that they undergo some evolution. The proposed idea with ego acting in thoughtform as far as the=20 perfectness of the form permits it seems quite reasonable for it=20 provides fastest possible evolution for all egos involved, and also=20 explains HOW the devachan is not more illusion than a physical life. Wee see the thoughtforms of our friends according to our ideas about=20 them, and their egos can act through them while it conforms our=20 notions about them, so they cannot hurt us, yet they can do for us=20 anything good that we permit. The ego in devachan cannot communicate with the earth plane, as HPB=20 rightly remarks, but it doesn't interfere it to communicate on its own=20 plane - in that extent which its own illusions permit. The=20 thoughtforms seem to be the natural filter for this action. We have=20 such a filter on the physical plane, it's our body imposed by our=20 physical karma, so why there can't be a similar filter created by=20 other kind of our karma? There are no proof for this theory, yet it seems to me quite plausible=20 untill the better one will be proposed. =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jul 01 05:00:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30038 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 12:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 12:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 12:00:22 -0000 Received: from [209.179.146.141] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DoKBb-0001rm-RQ for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 01 Jul 2005 08:00:00 -0400 To: Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 04:59:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c57e34$678b2aa0$8d92b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f145bf2bcac2a8a2df0db3de34fea104350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World I am not getting any mail X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=BVR1Mgs0qsnClVOBEwxGmWMMP9Y5i55X84hzcn-wXZj3mw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Dear Marie: If you will let us have you e-mail address and any questions we will be gla= d to answer and correspond. [My e-mail address is: dalval14@earthlink.net] Best wishes, Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olgamarie41 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:02 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World I am not getting any mail Hello there....don't know to whom to direct this message, but I need to=20 let u know that I have not been getting any mail for the last 4 or 5=20 days. Please put me on to receive e-mail. Thank you. Marie =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Jul 01 08:24:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94002 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2005 15:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2005 15:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2005 15:24:50 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.127.5f525e89 (25508) for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <127.5f525e89.2ff6ba1e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:24:14 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Deep Impact X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=E906VNx6aEYhXvgrK5IbY43kUx4PthxOwjqOPn_9t5wCJthfEQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 7/1/05 3:33:44 AM Central Daylight Time, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > The comet is sharing its secrets with us, and we have a > great deal of respect for this gift. We also have a great respect > for the many diverse cultures who share our world." > That's just plain disgusting! What the hell has science to do with respecting superstitions? If the elders don't like it, to hell with them and their cultures. Chuck the Heretic From Nisk98114@... Sat Jul 02 04:52:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@... X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54106 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2005 11:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2005 11:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2005 11:52:29 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@... by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.1fe.4c78619 (4262) for ; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1fe.4c78619.2ff7d9c2@...> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:51:30 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: Nisk98114@... Subject: Re: Theos-World Digest Number 2105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone happen to see this? http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jul 02 19:44:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48883 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 02:44:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 02:44:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 02:44:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 02:44:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 02:44:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 02:44:30 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 93 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: The Past Life Memories of James Leininger X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=XJJi1j6k8HUdqDFV0TKO-_z5v7-da0EX64i67PquyDpBxOvDV8-qcOCW X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell The Past Life Memories of James Leininger http://tinyurl.com/a8ou4 Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jul 02 20:40:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19589 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 03:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 03:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 03:40:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 03:40:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 03:40:51 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 03:40:49 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 107 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=gek0Jp5eGXQ9GvIFp2zhAW-Ta4d0Qj5bA0t5ayLNL47MMcESPmH1_Dl4 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? http://blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sat Jul 02 21:00:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79131 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 04:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 04:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.78) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 04:00:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 8156 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jul 2005 04:00:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20050703040053.8154.qmail@web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.113] by web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:00:53 PDT Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:00:53 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1fe.4c78619.2ff7d9c2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.78 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Digest Number 2105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=t7tzuaWMfZQ5NCFz0xtfIXAksv4RQee3KRpRdFBzMip8NYrqOw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hopefully, more in the west, will reincarnate so that it becomes undeniable. Cass Nisk98114@aol.com wrote: Did anyone happen to see this? http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jul 02 21:07:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7009 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 04:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 04:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40902.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.199) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 04:07:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 78557 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jul 2005 04:07:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20050703040730.78555.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.21.100] by web40902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:07:30 PDT Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:07:30 -0700 (PDT) To: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 66.218.78.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "D. Caldwell" Subject: Is There Life After Death? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=LvnBTSvA4GXJY1z8UiLS3BWFW5MSAveaZJTsEHB9ZR20Hkw9U5BVax9Q X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Is There Life After Death? 14 Recommended Books Exploring Life After Death & Reincarnation See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/istherelifeaftedeath.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc lis th/nb a-l From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Sat Jul 02 23:03:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85255 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 06:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 06:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 06:03:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 06:03:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 06:03:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 06:03:43 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050703040053.8154.qmail@web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 552 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.16.3.64 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: reincarnation Re: Digest Number 2105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=JmCCaH8tUhy2ipGqTb14MIw2CTBqutAq6E3G8zC21L9kMaHZ X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >> In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > Hopefully, more in the west, will reincarnate so that it becomes undeniable. Noteworthy that this is yet another example of reincarnation of PERSONALITY. The boy retained all his personal likes and dislikes, including those to meatloaf and icecream! In spite of theories, Sams and Browns reincarnate again! > Nisk98114@a... wrote: > Did anyone happen to see this? > > http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding@online.de Sun Jul 03 00:25:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74049 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 07:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 07:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 07:25:41 -0000 Received: from p54BF8A74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.138.116] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1DoyrD0A62-0006Qi; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 09:25:39 +0200 Message-ID: <003501c57fa0$83530c40$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:26:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World reincarnation Re: Digest Number 2105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=S0W7RaM8girHeOUVJv5G58VE_6LPv-g2SsRBiEzL3lSpe4cIkGnQGrHk2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer is that strange in anyway? The new personality does not come out of the blue, it consists of the life atoms of the last personality. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" To: Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 8:03 AM Subject: Theos-World reincarnation Re: Digest Number 2105 >> In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > Hopefully, more in the west, will reincarnate so that it becomes undeniable. Noteworthy that this is yet another example of reincarnation of PERSONALITY. The boy retained all his personal likes and dislikes, including those to meatloaf and icecream! In spite of theories, Sams and Browns reincarnate again! > Nisk98114@a... wrote: > Did anyone happen to see this? > > http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding@online.de Sun Jul 03 02:35:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7594 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 09:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 09:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 09:35:26 -0000 Received: from p54BF8A74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.138.116] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Dp0sn2fuw-0004zC; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:35:25 +0200 Message-ID: <007f01c57fb2$a40c8f80$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:35:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Politics in TS Re: Universal Brotherhood X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=bHTTVj-qPci6dFjL2Msnf77PQnTu8r5ubl1o4nGGiIPZFh0pckaIB7j-TQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>After 1917 many Russian theosophists fled from Russia and formed Russian Section abroad. It was against TS Rules, but Annie Besant I know. Many Russian theosophists/anthroposophists/artists which fled from the worker's paradise came to Berlin. There was from 1919 on until ?? a big center in the Ahornstr. Victor B. Fedjuschin (as his name rendered here) wrote about that in his good book. ==>which was issued in Russian in Boston, USA, in 1950's. One Indian theosophist confirmed me that alike political considerations may play some part even now, when I resented him that Adyar seems to be not very active in establishing TS in Russia. Mmmh. A new insight. Self-destruction not from insanity but upon higher orders. Can't you ask your source whether this is the policy also for theosophists in Germany? That would explain to me much. ==>Anoter example which is more marked but has no relation to TS is of Falun Dafa. This chinese organization has no political purposes but is prohibited in China. Now they have branches in many coutries and in Russia too. Wherever they try to organize their happenings or seminars, guys from Chinese embassy come and ask to prohibit it. If Here in Germany, too. Even the Tibet support groups want not to bee seen with Falun Dafa people and discontinued former shared activities like demonstrations. This suppresion will probably increase since China gets more and more important for Germany. Next week starts the first Berlin-Beijing direct flight (where there is since years no one to USA from Berlin). Nearly all Computer cases etc., kids toys, t-shirts etc. which you can buy in Germany comes from China. Our leading politicians say that the unemployed German must be competitive to the Chinese, who works for $15 a month. That will be no problem when the apartment rent is only $1, one month food $1, one month gasoline $1.... The intellectual and spiritual hald-dead TM seems not be interested in the satanic globalization. Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jul 03 04:22:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65004 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 11:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 11:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 11:22:04 -0000 Received: from p54BF9A50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.154.80] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1Dp2Xz1fjk-00073Y; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:22:03 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c57fc1$892c1370$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:22:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Comes now the Dark Age? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=kkx6uzYgdco9_ItpaOZZ0sIWj2Ut4HtEy5rvbGfPygCxQcYJw1p9iAkT4Q X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was the founding of the TS in 1875 a failure? Do we enter kali yug now? What is the theosophists view of the present crisis? http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/speeches_files/2005/050112_berlin_conf.htm Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.: What I'm going to lay before you, contradicts the diplomatic and related assumptions of discussions around the world today: That, in the coming period, especially with the onrushing financial collapse, which is inevitable now, that what people believe today, will no longer be believed. The system is coming down. The present world monetary-financial system is finished, and will never rise again. It's coming on now. Exactly when the official collapse occurs, is uncertain, but it will be soon. And in terms of the system itself, there will be no remedy which will ever allow for its recovery as a system, again, in future history. So, we're going into a period of either chaos, which could be a Dark Age, or we're going into a period in which the assumptions of relations among states, especially respecting economic and related kinds of relations, will be changed forever-either for the better, or very much for the worse. We are looking, as I said, at a potential New Dark Age. Now, this became clear, this process, or this part of the process, became clear on the morning following Nov. 7, 2000, when a Democratic Presidential candidate, Al Gore, earned a loss of a Presidential election by his own foolishness, and brought in a very dangerous factor-not merely a President, George Bush, who is mentally ill, and incompetent, who is essentially a puppet of people such as George Shultz, and more immediately of his Vice President, Dick Cheney; but, a Vice President and a Shultz who are committed to a policy of the use of developing new nuclear weapons as part of a retinue for global, preventive nuclear warfare, in which the first nation on the target list-as of the moment that Mr. Cheney was sworn in as Vice President-was Iraq. Nothing that happened subsequent to that, had any effect on the decision to invade Iraq. It was a predetermined decision, which had been the policy of Cheney since he had been the Secretary of Defense under George Bush I. And he didn't give it up; he worked for it. There's an international group called the "neo-conservatives," who are for it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding@online.de Sun Jul 03 04:32:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94974 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 11:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 11:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 11:32:29 -0000 Received: from p54BF9A50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.154.80] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1Dp2i33fh1-000162; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:32:27 +0200 Message-ID: <002201c57fc2$fdd75da0$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:33:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Translations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=Q_brHBdOHsX7mhc-GEwAGA0zzBV8_lTjz67MnS3r4DpIQENffRhmQWEU3A X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer John, I don't think that "mundane" is a proper translation for "lay". You can live in a monastery and still be a lay. I am not a language expert but I guess that what Konstantin meant rather tricky lower self interpretations. I never heard that the term Dharma has also a tricky materialistic meaning. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Translations Kay, >>> "lay chela". They translate it as "mundane chela", whatever that may Yes, "lay" is somewhat difficult word and we translate it as a "worldly chela".<<< When I first read this thread on this I was a little bewildered as to why this is so enigmatic for people to understand. Isn't it just that "Lay/Mundane" is contrasted to "Left Home" Chela in the Buddhist sense contrasting one who accepts and sincerely practices the Path or Teaching without having taken the Ordination Vows, Precepts, and Rules of Deportment of the Order of Monks who are referred too as "Left Home" and contrasted to "Lay/Mundane" chela practicioners who may also be married, single, etc. Also, It is not only nglish where words can have two meanings, look at the term "Dharma" a distinctly non-english word that has over a dozen elective meanings in usages, hopefully this abundance odesn't indicate the Hindu are many more times the "liars" than the english are,lol. Regards, John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 08:51:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53403 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 15:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 15:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 15:51:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 15:51:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 15:51:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:51:53 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4177 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Is this Leininger case a "real" case of reincarnation or something else? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=-e2OBR5-xwkALQmrnC5tElGyLG9nUVAHOHRwfMeSeQJ5bg7Vxa9ZVg-D X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Consider the following case: The Past Life Memories of James Leininger http://tinyurl.com/a8ou4 in light of what the Master K.H. writes below. Is this Leininger case a "real" case of reincarnation=20 or something else? ----------------------------------------------------- ....the suicides and those killed by accident ... can=20 communicate, and both have to pay dearly for such=20 visits. And now I have again to explain what I mean.=20 Well, this class is the one that the French Spiritists=20 call -- "les Esprits Souffrants." They are an exception=20 to the rule, as they have to remain within the earth's=20 attraction, and in its atmosphere -- the Kama-Loka --=20 till the very last moment of what would have been the=20 natural duration of their lives. In other words, that=20 particular wave of life-evolution must run on to its=20 shore. But it is a sin and cruelty to revive their=20 memory and intensify their suffering by giving them a=20 chance of living an artificial life; a chance to overload=20 their Karma, by tempting them into opened doors, viz.,=20 mediums and sensitives, for they will have to pay roundly=20 for every such pleasure. I will explain. The suicides, who,=20 foolishly hoping to escape life, found themselves still alive, --=20 have suffering enough in store for them from that very life. Their=20 punishment is in the intensity of the latter. Having lost by the=20 rash act their seventh and sixth principles, though not for ever, as=20 they can regain both -- instead of accepting their punishment, and=20 taking their chances of redemption, they are often made to regret=20 life and tempted to regain a hold upon it by sinful means. In the=20 Kama-Loka, the land of intense desires, they can gratify their=20 earthly yearnings but through a living proxy; and by so doing, at=20 the expiration of the natural term, they generally lose their monad=20 for ever. As to the victims of accident -- these fare still worse.=20 Unless they were so good and pure, as to be drawn immediately within=20 the Akasic Samadhi, i.e. to fall into a state of quiet slumber, a=20 sleep full of rosy dreams, during which, they have no recollection=20 of the accident, but move and live among their familiar friends and=20 scenes, until their natural life-term is finished, when they find=20 themselves born in the Deva-Chan -- a gloomy fate is theirs. Unhappy=20 shades, if sinful and sensual they wander about -- (not shells, for=20 their connection with their two higher principles is not quite=20 broken) -- until their death-hour comes. Cut off in the full flush=20 of earthly passions which bind them to familiar scenes, they are=20 enticed by the opportunities which mediums afford, to gratify them=20 vicariously =85.=20 The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death, will remain=20 from "a few hours to several short years," within the earth's=20 attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka. But exceptions are, in the case=20 of suicides and those who die a violent death in general. Hence, one=20 of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live -- say 80 or 90=20 years, but who either killed himself or was killed by some accident,=20 let us suppose at the age of 20 -- would have to pass in the Kama=20 Loka not "a few years," but in his case 60 or 70 years, as an=20 Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker"; since he is not,=20 unfortunately for him, even a "shell." Happy, thrice happy, in=20 comparison, are those disembodied entities, who sleep their long=20 slumber and live in dream in the bosom of Space! And woe to those=20 whose Trishna will attract them to mediums, and woe to the latter,=20 who tempt them with such an easy Upadana. For in grasping them, and=20 satisfying their thirst for life, the medium helps to develop in=20 them -- is in fact the cause of -- a new set of Skandhas, a new=20 body, with far worse tendencies and passions than was the one they=20 lost. All the future of this new body will be determined thus, not=20 only by the Karma of demerit of the previous set or group but also=20 by that of the new set of the future being.... --------------------------------------------------------- Quoted from THE MAHATMA LETTERS: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-16.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 08:58:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7844 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 15:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 15:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 15:58:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 15:58:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 15:58:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:58:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 679 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Dr. Ian Stevenson with an Important Point Concerning Children Who Remember..... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=j6t99BvsWA00EcKOIFX0H50lC9FsT5Kt3asgaGhkItOmv9mobip7DSGj X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Below is an important point made by Dr. Ian Stevenson concerning children who claim to remember previous lives: "One of the most interesting, and potentially most important, of the recurrent features [of reincarnation cases] is the high incidence of violent death among the previous personalities of the cases. We found that among 725 cases from six different cultures, 61 percent of the subjects remembered previous lives that ended in violent death." Ian Stevenson, CHILDREN WHO REMEMEBER PREVIOUS LIVES, 1st ed., p. 160. Compare this with the quote from Master K.H. at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27601 Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jul 03 09:15:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88181 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 16:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 16:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 16:15:42 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Dp785-0003iF-NO for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 12:15:37 -0400 Message-ID: <42C80F30.9050709@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 12:15:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <000c01c57fc1$892c1370$152ca8c0@thebeast> In-Reply-To: <000c01c57fc1$892c1370$152ca8c0@thebeast> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba4ff381f0575bd4787f8b5733da8cad825d5f9c5c39d41a28350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Comes now the Dark Age? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=j18XqDnRdgTF9GCzxVaqT6ZLJeJaLoea3q1nM3pVfgbAUyI X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.: What I'm going to lay before you, For most of us, that's all we need to know. Bart From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 09:46:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21040 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 16:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 16:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 16:46:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 16:46:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 16:46:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 16:46:09 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2354 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Hypotheses OTHER THAN Reincarnation: The psychic "husk" theory, for example X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=9ijEH5B_hOxwJimjZTbPv5GzDW3rgaduzsHTiJ8-RK67FtO8-lE9ypxt X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell The philosopher John Hick writes the following concerning one hypothesis other than "reincarnation"=20 to explain the cases of children who claim to remember=20 "their" previous lives: ------------------------------------------------------------- ....Stevenson himself discusses several different=20 hypotheses, other than reincarnation, each of which=20 may apply to one or more of his own twenty cases,=20 though he does not think that they can between them=20 convincingly cover all of them. I should like to=20 add one more to the list of possible non-reincarnationist=20 explanations, making use of the psychic factor=20 theory mentioned in chapter 7. This is the theory=20 that after bodily death a mental 'husk' or 'mask' of=20 the deceased person is left behind and is=20 telepathically accessible under certain conditions=20 to living persons. Such a 'husk' may consist of=20 mere fragments of memory, emotion, habit =96=20 analogous to isolated pieces of a tape-recording =96=20 or of a relatively coherent and cohensive body of=20 such elements and may . . . become linked to the mind of a medium=20 when in trance and be presented under the dramatic guise of a=20 visitor from the spirit world. This hypothesis can be extended to=20 cover the comparatively rare cases of an individual 'remembering' a=20 supposed previous identity and life. It may be that he (or she) is=20 telepathically sensitive in the same sort of way as a medium, and is=20 being influenced by the psychic 'husk' of some deceased person and=20 identifying himself with this. It is perhaps worth noting, as consistent with this possibility,=20 that in most, or perhaps all, of the more impressive cases of=20 reported memories of former lives =96 including all of Ian Stevenson's twenty selected cases =96 the remembered life was the most recent one, with a gap of no more than a few years between=20 its end and the beginning of the reported memories. Likewise=20 the 'spirits' who communicate through mediums have usually only=20 fairly recently died. The recency of the material in each case=20 might be expected if the phenomena have a common origin in=20 persisting psychic traces or 'husks' which presumably gradually fade=20 or decay with the passage of time. ----------------------------------------------------- Quoted from: John Hick, DEATH AND ETERNAL LIFE, p. 376 Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc From samblo@cs.com Sun Jul 03 10:36:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54517 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 17:36:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 17:36:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 17:36:24 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.e5.1683c929 (3948) for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:35:02 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Translations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, Well from an American English perspective in my opinion "mundane" when used in reference to Buddhist Orders means "of the world" or "worldly" and seems to characterize one who has not "Left Home" ie; a "Lay" person. I am casually acquainted with Chinese Buddhism (Ch'an) and my "Lay" name given to me by Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua (passed over) is Kuo Chuang, as a Lay Person I am not "Left Home" even though I took Lay Vows, a Left Home has formally entranced the Order and taken the Vows and observations not taken by Lay Persons and has "Left Home" by leaving his family and former life and become a Monk living at the monastery. Some Buddhist Orders also allow marriage and production of children (tibetan) and sexual abstaintion is not observed. A Lay person can also be a practictioner of Buddhism anywhere in any sect of Buddhism Frank, even if one restricts one's reading to only Blavatsky original written works how many different usages for Dharma does one find? There are many. And in terms of both the Hindu and Buddhist Literature there are even more, Dharma has the breadth of the universe for it's play ground. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 11:13:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59803 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 18:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 18:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 18:13:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n31.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:13:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:13:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:13:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 127 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.60 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: The Reincarnation FAQ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=SK8NAdl09SA3jdDnklGkSuOAoS_498UuxsQ9BN95mp8xcpzj8ojgs1ag X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell The Reincarnation FAQ http://geocities.com/richard_holmes/reincarnation/faq.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http:hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 11:19:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83647 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 18:19:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 18:19:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 18:19:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:19:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:19:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:19:22 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 116 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Children's Past Lives Research Center X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=tetXwAUPGANSzFfBw4Jxa11I6ODQzBF5jEbRS_6W7SAxTsFE6-XER69F X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Children's Past Lives Research Center http://www.childpastlives.org/ Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 11:26:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28673 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:26:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1894 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: OLD SOULS : Compelling Evidence from Children Who Remember Past Lives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=wZA3Y4R0xyLBQM8g-eKIDgzjnljTrAtQFcx9MGz5A_NjdPAqf1Ct-t_8 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell OLD SOULS : Compelling Evidence from Children Who Remember Past Lives by Thomas Shroder See: http://tinyurl.com/7egw7 >From Publishers Weekly: --------------------------------------------------------------- While it is easy for Western science to dismiss as fantasy or wish fulfillment the recollections of individuals who "remember" being Cleopatra or Napoleon, how is one to explain a young boy's insistence that he is really a nondescript auto mechanic who died in a car crash a few years before? American psychiatrist Ian Stevenson has spent more than 30 years studying the cases of some 2000 children who spontaneously remember concrete details about dead strangers whose experiences can be documented. On his two final field trips, to Lebanon and India, he was accompanied by journalist Shroder, Sunday Style editor of the Washington Post. Shroder's account of these expeditions emphasizes physical detail over in- depth analysis but nevertheless makes for engrossing reading. In many cases, the subjects exhibit birthmarks or extreme phobias corresponding to injuries or traumatic events in their "past lives." They recognize the deceased's relatives and friends; in one case, a Lebanese boy asked the deceased's mother if she had finished knitting the sweater she was making for him when he died. That the compelling questions raised by such cases are ignored by the scientific establishment causes Stevenson great disappointment. "For me," he claims, "everything now believed by scientists is open to question, and I am always dismayed to find that many scientists accept current knowledge as forever fixed." The journalistic objectivity Shroder brings to his material makes this an exceptionally valuable treatment of an often disparaged subject. ----------------------------------------------------------- http://tinyurl.com/7egw7 Daniel http://hpb.cc From ringding@online.de Sun Jul 03 12:50:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22154 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 19:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 19:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 19:50:07 -0000 Received: from p54BF98F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.152.241] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1DpATa0J1k-0002hE; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:50:02 +0200 Message-ID: <002b01c58008$80801ae0$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: <000c01c57fc1$892c1370$152ca8c0@thebeast> <42C80F30.9050709@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 21:50:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Comes now the Dark Age? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=PCs_h2CxxU4ygBdGsysFaJsH3wp3hd--QRW8pc2gdWpYgIpo9oTgvTS-Zg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer If you want me to say that he is in many, if not most, cases not a trustworthy source, I would agree with you. Nevertheless you must not be a follower of Trotzkist renegates LaRouche do see what is going around us. Also from a theosophical point of view it looks a little bit dangerous. It it said that GdeP privately admitted that the war between dark and white is still in the balance. What do me is interesting in texts like that from LaRouche is how he uses the term Nazis. When he labels the people in the US who bankrupted Argentinia as Nazis it turns to be grotesque and a clear misinformation. Only people who never read big H and studied his deeds can fall into such a trap as he did just the opposite. But what term is not misused for the profit of the liers? The term Herrenvolk (master race) and the policy under that name is nothing else than theosophical doctrines in practise and equivalent to to Svabhava. Ironically, even theosophists - yeah, they did not their homework and do not understand theosophy - are driving wild as they believe blindly in the world wide propaganda of the oligarchy and the prostitutes and parasites of the press... Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Comes now the Dark Age? Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.: What I'm going to lay before you, For most of us, that's all we need to know. Bart From opt-mas@slingshot.co.nz Sun Jul 03 15:50:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: opt-mas@slingshot.co.nz X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10812 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 22:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 22:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.woosh.co.nz) (202.74.207.2) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 22:50:33 -0000 Received: from murray.slingshot.co.nz (202-74-221-190.ue.woosh.co.nz [202.74.221.190]) by woosh.co.nz (Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.1.20) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:23:00 +1200 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050704100917.030bdae0@pop3.slingshot.co.nz> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 10:23:30 +1200 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1120398909.1224.36061.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1120398909.1224.36061.m19@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Originating-IP: 202.74.207.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Murray Stentiford Subject: Re: reincarnation Re: Digest Number 2105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182846670; y=K490tJ4KLOqRzQ7ZDtCquv6wWC4ERMtECY26P6hytgPkpA What's notable, is that those who genuinely appear to recall a former life, as in this case and the many Ian Stevenson reincarnation research cases, died in relatively recent times, no more than a few decades ago. And they generally died young or in the prime of life. That indicates that personality traits can be carried forward when a person dies young and reincarnates soon. As if the full cycle of release of personality traits and ascent to devachan did not happen in these cases, but the return to earth was made with some of the energy or substance of those traits still there. Murray On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:26:18 +0200, Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >is that strange in anyway? >The new personality does not come out of the blue, it consists of the life >atoms of the last personality. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 8:03 AM >Subject: Theos-World reincarnation Re: Digest Number 2105 > > > >> In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Hopefully, more in the west, will reincarnate so that it becomes >undeniable. > >Noteworthy that this is yet another example of reincarnation of >PERSONALITY. The boy retained all his personal likes and dislikes, >including those to meatloaf and icecream! In spite of theories, Sams >and Browns reincarnate again! > > > Nisk98114@a... wrote: > > Did anyone happen to see this? > > > > http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_189477.html > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 18:07:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45717 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 01:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 01:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 01:07:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:07:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:07:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:07:02 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 899 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: An "earth-walker"...would have to pass in the Kama Loka....60 or 70 years.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=bi-DBg5txClkW0W2JenP7KH-InxiQ6MR03LUTVjsdcgqPV4w5KN6hWUP X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Master K.H. writes: ----------------------------------------------- The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death, will remain from "a few hours to several short years," within the earth's attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka. But exceptions are, in the case of suicides and those who die a violent death in general. Hence, one of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live -- say 80 or 90 years, but who either killed himself or was killed by some accident, let us suppose at the age of 20 -- would have to pass in the Kama Loka not "a few years," but in his case 60 or 70 years, as an Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker"; since he is not, unfortunately for him, even a "shell." Happy, thrice happy, in comparison, are those disembodied entities, who sleep their long slumber and live in dream in the bosom of Space! --------------------------------------------------- From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 18:18:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3993 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 01:18:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 01:18:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 01:18:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:17:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:17:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:17:31 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 511 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Could the young James Leininger be telepatheically sensitive to .....? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=Jtr4PDBoAAXNAG2T-aeyz9ha2l0SPx9E6od4Bn-72yAfTRsCnb50Y_Ny X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell So did the personality James Huston Jr. actually reincarnate into the personality James Leininger or is something else going on? Parphrasing John Hick's words, it may be that the young James Leininger is telepathically sensitive in the same sort of way as a medium, and is being influenced by the deceased James Huston Jr. who might still be in the Kama Lokic state mentioned by K.H. in the posting at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27611 Food for thought. Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 18:30:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5287 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 01:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 01:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 01:30:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:29:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 01:29:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:29:43 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1081 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: The Case of Ma Tin Aung Myo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=PqBIiSs00xsKFbSsOsZ_NI7hz8aRWhqekalapTGY-MjGydH4ZOqp_-if X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Ma Tin Aung Myo, a Burmese girl, was born on Dec. 26, 1953. During her pregnancy, the mother had dreamed on three occasions that a Japanese soldier was following her and telling her that he would come to stay with her. When Ma Tin was between three and four years old, she started remembering a previous life in which she had been a Japanese soldier stationed in Nathul during World War II, when the Japanese army occupied Burma. The Japanese soldier had been a cook and had been killed when an Allied plane strafed the village where he was staying. The soldier had been killed during the Japanese retreat from Burma. This would make 1945 the probable year of the soldier's death. Ma Tin could not remember the names either of the Japanese soldier or of the place in Japan where he had lived. Consequently, Dr. Stevenson could not trace a Japanese person corresponding to Ma Tin's statements. Was Ma Tin a "reincarnation" of this Japanese soldier or was Ma Tin and her mother "sensitive" to the "earthwalker" whose body had been killed in 1945? Daniel http://hpb.cc From perrycoles@yahoo.com Sun Jul 03 20:27:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: perrycoles@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84857 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 03:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 03:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 03:27:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 03:27:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 03:27:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 03:27:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1127 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 139.230.245.20 From: "Perry Coles" Subject: Re: Could the young James Leininger be telepatheically sensitive to .....? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=93736069; y=d6JCXz6opYUxid1aqAkTDnn2feP1Vxz4JEJ6j2R52I5KgO-GmA X-Yahoo-Profile: perrycoles Hi Daniel Thanks for these interesting cases. I think as with everything phenomena can have more than just one rationale we need to consider. It maybe that the child is "tapping into" an astral shell and the personality then interprets this as being a "past life". It may indeed be a "past life" of that child however other occult rationale could be equally compelling. Unless we are adepts it would be virtually impossible to say for sure,at least thats as far as my understanding goes. Perry --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell" wrote: > So did the personality James Huston Jr. actually > reincarnate into the personality James Leininger > or is something else going on? > > Parphrasing John Hick's words, it may be that > the young James Leininger is telepathically sensitive > in the same sort of way as a medium, and is > being influenced by the deceased James Huston Jr. who might > still be in the Kama Lokic state mentioned by > K.H. in the posting at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27611 > > Food for thought. > > Daniel > http://hpb.cc From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 00:51:00 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88427 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 07:50:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 07:50:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 07:50:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 07:49:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 07:49:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:49:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2216 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Hypotheses OTHER THAN Reincarnation: The psychic "husk" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=s2xVmXdhcfWoWF2J3L8f-h7KRhUlX1fNoCLU-YDM17Potry8 X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >>-- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell" wrote: > The philosopher John Hick writes the following > concerning one hypothesis other than "reincarnation" > that after bodily death a mental 'husk' or 'mask' of > the deceased person is left behind and is > telepathically accessible under certain conditions > to living persons. This is very old theory, first laid out probably by the christians to refute reincarnation in general. The problem is that almost all undeniable cases (i.e. edvdences of unprejudiced children, got without hypnotic influence from outside or some yogic or other psychic practices from the side of subject himself) are exactly of that kind. If this theory was true, it would probably refute most evidences of reincarnation, because we simply scarcely have any others. The "telepathic" theory no way justifies the reincarnation based on the higher self and lower personality, it just dismisses reincarnation, if we approach scientifically take reliable evidences only. But fortunately the telepatic theory is very unscientific, and it is quite obvious that those "philosophers" who hold it, are quite inexperienced in psychical research, or ignoring the facts by religious considerations. It is well-known that those who are in telepathic contact never identify themselves with the persons contacted. On the contrary, sometimes the information form one's subconscious mind is attributed to external sources. Sometimes happens that a sprirt or a husk obscesses a medium's body, but in this case all his thinking and sometimes even voice is changed, and two different personalities never get intermingled, they are just switching. The children described as a rule have no telepatic or mediumistic faculties and have no other connections, while psychics and mediums generally can have many. Also it is not likely that the empty shell could survive in a good condition for more than 50 years, as in the case under consideration. It is strange that not only lower but also noble qualities survive, what doesn't conform the theosophical view about such shells. Some of these arguments were already used by Stevenson himself or by some of his followers. From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Mon Jul 04 00:59:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40914 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 07:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 07:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.58) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 07:59:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n29.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 07:59:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 07:59:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:59:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 102 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.58 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 203.187.209.208 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote 'I am pleased with you' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=1MbCzUFjq2EiThNieLeTpuXouKXHE7ZjGpylFw-_Hgw_tx8X9c5DERY X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote in June 1886 to him " I am pleased with you" Cheers. Anand Gholap From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Mon Jul 04 01:03:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57981 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 08:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 08:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 08:03:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:03:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:03:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:03:14 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 991 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 203.187.209.208 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Liberal Catholic Church can be a powerful force for good X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=CYBgsw9edKCtux2C60Fs95M9dycx75O3LJREw3zxRO7GQL5i6iNDPlM X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net Principle of unity of life, constitution of man taking into account his higher bodies, man as fragment of divinity who can know his unity with God directly, these principles which Theosophy gives were written long back in Hindu religion, Vedas and Upanishats. In other religions like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism these principles may be existing in esoteric part of them. However these three religions as understood by ordinary followers of those religions and as understood by scholars don't give the principles written above which Hindu religion gives. Liberal Catholic Church is the only other religion which visibly appreciates those principles. Leadbeater and Besant have given principles in Vedas through Theosophy. And LCC is the only other organized religion which openly shows appreciation of these principles as given by Theosophy. As Liberal Catholic Church is based on very sound philosophy called Theosophy it can be a very powerful force for good in the world. Anand Gholap From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 01:13:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74450 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 08:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 08:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 08:13:05 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:12:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:12:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:12:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003501c57fa0$83530c40$152ca8c0@thebeast> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1881 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Theos-World reincarnation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=JMJABlurWKDBygxaYH2-ycywdmNlXkoTTwasMoM47URzedeZ X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz > - In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > is that strange in anyway? > The new personality does not come out of the blue, it consists of the life atoms of the last personality. >> The boy retained all his personal likes and dislikes, >> including those to meatloaf and icecream! I emphasized the following point: "as the bee collects its honey from every flower, leaving the rest as food for the earthly worms, so does our spiritual individuality, whether we call it Sutratman or Ego. Collecting from every terrestrial personality, into which Karma forces it to incarnate, the nectar alone of the spiritual qualities and self-consciousness, it unites all these into one whole and emerges from its chrysalis as the glorified Dhyani-Chohan. So much the worse for those terrestrial personalities from which it could collect nothing. Such personalities cannot assuredly outlive consciously their terrestrial existence." I don't think that a like for meatloaf is a quality of that kind which can be called a "nectar of spiritual qualities". It would be better to keep "the bloom on Colonel's cheek" than such a spititual quality. Here I fully agree with Murray. I have read somewhere (probably in G. Hodson's lectures) that if a man dies "prematurely", by violent death or in childhood) he retains an old set of subtle bodies and after a short time reincarnates which them again. It should be regarded from an occult point of view as one incarnation. I have read even a story about German robber who killed a rich Australian tourist, and later was himself killed in a gangster clash. He was immediately reborn in Australia as a son of that very tourist. Obviously, there was a karmic link, not mere telepathic connection. When he realized that he killed is own father, he was put to psychiatric clinic, nevertheless he committed suicide. From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 01:23:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96661 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 08:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 08:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 08:23:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:22:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:22:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:22:34 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000c01c57fc1$892c1370$152ca8c0@thebeast> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 950 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Comes now the Dark Age? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=-Z7YqROM4GYM4nSzeYAvZ4_t9WbgreULq9c48p8aLnHzALtk X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >>- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > Was the founding of the TS in 1875 a failure? > Do we enter kali yug now? We cannot enter it for we are in it for more than 5000 years. HPB said that we haven't passed the lowest point yet, but I hope that she meant communist and nazis regimes of 20th century. TS cannot be classed as a "failure", for it was really a desperate attempt, so ANY result is a good result. > Exactly when the official collapse occurs, is uncertain, but it will be soon. > Now, this became clear, this process, or this part of the process, became clear on the morning following Nov. 7, 2000, when a Democratic Presidential candidate, Al Gore, earned a loss They Americans think that if they collapse, all the world will collapse. But most probably the rest of the world will meet it by a sigh of relief. When Atlantis collapsed atlanteans probably also thought that it is the end of the history. From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 01:48:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2921 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 08:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 08:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 08:48:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:48:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 08:48:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:48:22 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <007f01c57fb2$a40c8f80$152ca8c0@thebeast> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1915 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.149.244.163 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Theos-World Politics in TS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=x0WPOPN2d6AsG95LIUgMry88HggppRTq2ur3-mWApNEdBgZi X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz >>-- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > Mmmh. A new insight. Self-destruction not from insanity but > upon higher orders. Can't you ask your source whether this is > the policy also for theosophists in Germany? I think that he doesn't know for sure, for he was merely theoretizing. But his point was about non-democratic countries and about countries where democracy isn't still well established now, like Russia, while it is not so in your case. As for Germany, as far I know, you have enough members to have a section, so you are able to stand on your own feet and need no special support. But eastern German lands may need it, at least from the side of western lands. Nevertheless you may compare it with situation in Germany after 1945. Then Germany definitely needed such help, and you can judge for yourself, was there such help and was that help enough. But during WW2 many national sections suffered much, so Headquarters probably couldn't pay enough attention to each country which needed help. I have read in abovementioned magazine "Alba" that the School of Wisdom was an invention of Jinarajadasa and was intended just to refill the lack of learned workers after the war. There is also another consideration. Anthroposophical tradition is prominent in Germany and in some other European countries; probably they occupy one niche with the theosophists. By the way, after the failure with Steiner, Adyar may be not very enthusiasting about the work in Germany; it may be the question of sparing energy, not of politics. > This suppresion will probably increase since China gets more and more important for Germany. > Our leading politicians say that the unemployed German must be competitive to the Chinese I wonder what hell is China getting more important for Germany. >From the first glance, the less contacts with China the better for German economy. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 08:57:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40588 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 15:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 15:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 15:57:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 15:54:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 15:54:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:54:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7016 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Konstantin on: Hypotheses OTHER THAN Reincarnation: The psychic "husk" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=8EOt5RgG3JAdPN0Ohnlto7XjrBtvwZwYTtuFEGQwASVW8bUW28Q291AY X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Konstantin, Thanks for your recent comments at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27615 There is much I would like to say but will just jot down a few thoughts since my time is limited this morning. First of all, I would like to know your "take" on what the Master K.H. said in the following postings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27611 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27601 It seems that many Theosophists have ignored what the Master says in this excerpt or downplayed what is said or simply disbelieved the Master..... Moving on. You write: "This is very old theory, first laid out probably by the christians to refute reincarnation in general." Well the theory may be old but still true. And whether the Christians used it or not to refute reincarnation does NOT mean that it may not be relevant to the cases we are discussing. You go on to say: "If this theory was true, it would probably refute most evidences of reincarnation, because we simply scarcely have any others." Well if it refutes most evidences of reincarnation, and it is also true, then so be it..... You also comment: "But fortunately the telepatic theory is very unscientific, and it is quite obvious that those 'philosophers' who hold it, are quite inexperienced in psychical research, or ignoring the facts by religious considerations." It is hard to understand exactly in what sense you mean the telpathic theory is "very unscientific". And it may be "quite obvious" to you that these philosophers are inexperienced in psychical research, but since you have not detailed why it should be so obvious, it is hard to know what you are exactly referring to. You also state: "Also it is not likely that the empty shell could survive in a good condition for more than 50 years, as in the case under consideration." Well the "empty shell" theory may not apply to the case under consideration, but notice that in the following extract from the Master KH, he is referring not to a shell but to something else: ----------------------------------------------------- The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death, will remain from "a few hours to several short years," within the earth's attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka. But exceptions are, in the case of suicides and those who die a violent death in general. Hence, one of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live -- say 80 or 90 years, but who either killed himself or was killed by some accident, let us suppose at the age of 20 -- would have to pass in the Kama Loka not "a few years," but in his case 60 or 70 years, as an Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker"; since he is not, unfortunately for him, even a "shell." ---------------------------------------------------------- So here we are referring to an "earth-walker" not to a "shell". Then you add: "It is strange that not only lower but also noble qualities survive, what doesn't conform the theosophical view about such shells." But again in the case under consideration, it may not be a shell but an earthwalker..... and the noble qualities would survive in this particular "state". Again remember what KH writes: "...those killed by accident ... have to remain within the earth's attraction, and in its atmosphere -- the Kama-Loka -- till the very last moment of what would have been the natural duration of their lives. In other words, that particular wave of life-evolution must run on to its shore." And KH writes that many of the victims of accident, if "good and pure", would "fall into a state of quiet slumber, a sleep full of rosy dreams, during which, they have no recollection of the accident, but move and live among their familiar friends and scenes, until their natural life-term is finished, when they find themselves born in the Deva-Chan...." In other cases, the victim might be quite aware of the accident and still be in a state of slumber sometimes...waiting in this state until his/her natural lifeterm is finished and the "death struggle/gestation/and devachan" stages begin.... The child in the case under consideration may develop a telepathic rapport with this "entity" and even share the dreams of the "entity". I myself have had vivid dreams in which I felt I was someone else, not Daniel Caldwell. If this could happen in my dream state, then it is not such a stretch to assume that the child might also identify with this "other someone". And consider this suggestive passage from another letter from K.H.: ============================================= Quotation from Tennyson? Really cannot say. Some stray lines picked up in the astral light or in somebody's brain and remembered, I never forget what I once see or read. A bad habit. So much so, that often and unconsciously to myself I string together sentences of stray words and phrases, before my eyes and which may have been used hundred years ago or will be hundred years hence, in relation to quite a different subject. Laziness and real lack of time. The "Old Lady" called me a "brain pirate" and a plagiarist, the other day for using a whole sentence of five lines, which, she is firmly convinced, I must have pilfered from Dr. Wilder's brain as three months later, he reproduced it in an essay of his on prophetic intuition. Never had a look into the old philosopher's brain cells. Got it somewhere in a northern current -- don't know. Write this for your information as something new for you, I suppose. Thus a child may be born bearing the greatest resemblance and features to another person, thousands of miles off, no connexion to the mother, never seen by her, but whose floating image was impressed upon her soul-memory, during sleep or even waking hours, and reproduced upon the sensitized plate of living flesh she carries in her. ======================================================= Quoted from: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-49.htm So one might ask: What OTHER floating "images" FROM ANOTHER PERSON might be impressed upon the child's own "soul-memory"???? Could memories float into the child's own soul-memory? Plus keep in mind that Dr. Stevenson has also found other cases of children "with anomalous dates of death and birth." He writes: "In a small number of cases, the subject was born BEFORE the person whose life he remembered died...In a case of this kind, taken at face value, it would seem that the subject's body was fully made and presumably occupied by one personality before another one took it over...." So if child A starts remembering a life he/she "lived" as person B but later it is found out that the previous life of person B did not end until child A was let us say 3 years old, what is child A ACTUALLY "remembering"? HIS OWN previous life??? or the life of ANOTHER human being who is now "dead"??? Or....? These last two points need to be expanded on a great deal but I must do that later. Daniel http://hpb.cc From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 04 10:07:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81148 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 17:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 17:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 17:07:51 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DpUPq-0002Lv-LA for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 13:07:30 -0400 Message-ID: <42C96CDB.2040100@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 13:07:39 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba24f30f99eb77e0e43460d11359a437f22601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote 'I am pleased with you' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=wWNZllnBtjjhpg1Hx7k0EyAeic7LtBEESGqyDbtxz_K4ng4 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Anand Gholap wrote: > Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote in June 1886 to him " I am pleased > with you" Unfortunately, he was writing about Olcott. Bart From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 04 10:08:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5843 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 17:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 17:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 17:08:19 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DpUQd-0002aY-4P for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 13:08:19 -0400 Message-ID: <42C96D0B.8000608@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 13:08:27 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba24f30f99eb77e0e46a58e3543731fe51548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Liberal Catholic Church can be a powerful force for good X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=rZdC-BULeU37K_zoykLF4JOPr7BTNcUdKw_nc0K2N0UoX6M X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Anand Gholap wrote: > As Liberal Catholic Church is based on very sound philosophy called > Theosophy it can be a very powerful force for good in the world. Except that it is complete violation of the 1st Object of the Theosophical Society. Bart From ringding@online.de Mon Jul 04 10:57:19 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57115 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 17:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 17:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 17:57:16 -0000 Received: from p54BF99BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.191.153.191] (helo=thebeast) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1DpVBQ0cIO-0008Gg; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:56:40 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c580c1$cd71adf0$152ca8c0@thebeast> To: References: <42C96D0B.8000608@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:57:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Liberal Catholic Church can be a powerful force for good X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=nxYPY_aBJ-IYITTv3zTDLVHC6G-OgjGO2MU5znW2qJ1lmISC4TvJCZNwww X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Even more serious, the LCC nightmare monster is a complete violation of the 3rd object of the TS. They want to develop rather outer powers than inner, latent in man. The LCC pseudo-theosophy is intolerant to pukka theosophy and unbrotherly to HPB and her teachers. It weakens the human mind and will, offers stones instead of bread and is therefore a violation of nature and natural evolutionary development. They oppose the work of the helpers of mankind and try to descend us down into mental slavery. A kind of clever brainwashing with some pieces of stolen theosophical teachings, intermixed with poppycock. Because of this clever camouflage more dangerous as open enemies. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Liberal Catholic Church can be a powerful force for good Anand Gholap wrote: > As Liberal Catholic Church is based on very sound philosophy called > Theosophy it can be a very powerful force for good in the world. Except that it is complete violation of the 1st Object of the Theosophical Society. Bart From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 11:09:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80443 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 18:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 18:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 18:09:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 18:06:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 18:06:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:06:36 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42C96CDB.2040100@sprynet.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 363 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Bart on: Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote 'I am pleased with you' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=gEIpye1nOQdSq1TtkM86Qd-lT62Ok2YFulLwu3I1qic3Jde7VJRe4vBu X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > Anand Gholap wrote: > > Leadbeater's Master (K.H.) wrote in June 1886 to him " I am pleased > > with you" > > Unfortunately, he was writing about Olcott. > > Bart Bart, as far as I can tell, you are wrong on this and Anand is correct. See: http://www.tphta.ws/CWL_KHLE.HTM Daniel From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Mon Jul 04 12:49:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93941 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 19:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 19:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 19:49:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 19:48:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2005 19:48:50 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:48:50 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7803 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.16.3.64 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Re: Konstantin on: Hypotheses OTHER THAN Reincarnation: The psychic "husk" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205; y=WV4myR7YjZ3B3F_Bb6-tyYut5UvW5_AIGV8e6zSo239GcupS X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz > In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell" wrote: Dear Daniel, > It seems that many Theosophists have ignored what > the Master says in this excerpt or downplayed what is > said or simply disbelieved the Master..... It's just because reincarnation has much more evidences than existence of the Masters. Reincarnation, according to many known evidences seems to be more reasonable theory, it can stand easily without support of the theory about Masters which itself needs some support. You know that there are many alternative explanations about Masters, really much more than alternative explanations of reincarnation like telepathic theory, etc. One simple question. It is widely believed that Mahatma Letters are created by so called precipitation. The Master has the image in his mind and produces the letter by means of materialization. But WHY all the letters are in the handwriting, while it is much easier to imagine the PRINTED letters, like those we see in the books and on the screen? To imagine handwriting with much minor details is much harder task, and needs much efforts with are quite obsolete for they make the letters more hard to read. >> it would probably refute most evidences of reincarnation, >> because we simply scarcely have any others. > Well if it refutes most evidences of reincarnation, and it is also true, then so be it..... It is important because you are using for its support some information based on the authority of the Masters. They also taught reincarnation. In this case we are left with two theories which are quite speculative because there are almost no any evidences for them. > It is hard to understand exactly in what sense you mean the > telpathic theory is "very unscientific". I mean that it needs many assumptions for its support, while it ignores the experience of many psychic researchers, parapsychologists and other people who experimented with telepathy. Some people think that the theory of the formation of the universe from the casual combination of atoms is a scientific one, but to me (and probably to other theosophists too) it seems to be a large assumption. Similarly with a husk-theory. We should assume that the husk survives, that it lives many years, that it is not a soul but a husk, that it attaches to some child (why to this particular child, there's no any explanation), that the personality of the child undergoes some change when he cannot separate two personalities and they are perfectly blended into one, endowing the child by the likes, dislikes and qualities to the alleged husk. > you have not detailed why it should be so obvious, it is hard to > know what you are exactly referring to. Because they ignore information which is well known to anyone who studied results of the psychic experiments. They have right for their own opinion, but it seems that don't take any trouble to refute the deductions made by experimenters from their data. For example, how telepathic theory explains the marks on the body of the new-born child which correspond to the injuries made in previous life by swords, bullets and traces of surgical operations? How it explains that a child has no other telepathic contacts and no any ESP? How does it explain why the child feels quite happy and there's no fight and fear as in the case of obscession? (Behaviour in a case of obscession is well known and is described not only in parapsychological but in the religious literature also). Why authors of the theory ignore all that and don't take any trouble to refute previous evidences of parapsychologists? > Well the "empty shell" theory may not apply to the case under > consideration, but notice that in the following extract from the > Master KH, he is referring not to a shell but to something else: He just describes the survival of the soul, if we to use the ordinary words. He never proposed the obscession theory. Obscession is quite other thing and it is well-known. If you don't believe to other authors, HPB herself also describes a typical case of obscession in her Nightmare Tales. > And KH writes that many of the victims of accident, if "good and > pure", would "fall into a state of quiet slumber, a sleep full > of rosy dreams, during which, they have no recollection of the > accident, but move and live among their familiar friends and > scenes, until their natural life-term is finished, when they find > themselves born in the Deva-Chan...." I very glad for them, but it is not the case with the pilot boy who had a good recollection. Moreover, no Master wrote that instead going to devachan such entity obscesses poor children. He'd rather eat his own turban than to write such a nonsense! > I myself have had vivid dreams in which I felt I was > someone else, not Daniel Caldwell. If this could happen in my It is a phenomenon known very well to psychical researchers, but it is a switching of personalities, they don't got intermingled. There was a case of a woman who have seen the dreams from her past life, and that person of XIX century was really identified, and your theory could work for these cases, but these are not numerous; really I know only one fully described. But in your case it can be just an additional personality, for some contemporary psychologists hold the theory that a man can have several personalities. >> Some stray lines picked up in the astral light or in somebody's >> brain and remembered, I never forget what I once see or read. >> "Old Lady" called me a "brain pirate" and a plagiarist > Thus a child may be born bearing the greatest resemblance and > features to another person, thousands of miles off, The Master describes the well known phenomenon of tepepathy or the brain piracy, but it NEVER involves personal attitudes and attachments. I know this phenomenon very well, for I was an inductor and another guy was a recipient. It was in a newsgroup