From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun May 01 01:49:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83605 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 08:49:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 08:49:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 08:49:46 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.1fc.b1517e (4328) for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 04:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1fc.b1517e.2fa5f227@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 04:49:43 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World To Leon: could you list the forums, please? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 04/27/05 11:33:28 PM, forums@sova.us writes: >Thursday, April 28, 2005, 1:35:20 AM, leonmaurer wrote: > >> In the meantime -- since I am moving over to other monitored forums where I >> can reasonably discuss theosophy and scientific metaphysics in some depth >-- > >Could you please list those forums? I'd like to look at them too. :-) > Vladimir The main ones are study@blavatsky.net MindBrain@yahoogroups.com (although this one is mostly cognitive psychologists af a materialistic bent who take a dim view of metaphysics -- although I have fun arguing with them :-) Leon From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun May 01 03:53:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36489 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 10:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 10:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 10:53:32 -0000 Received: from [209.179.140.27] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DSC4k-0004Xz-J0; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:53:29 -0400 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 03:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c54e3c$0094c040$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20050430044654.64544.qmail@web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f0e9ed5399356bfadc5449db71b49565350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: God and the brute X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 May 1 2005 Dear Cass: Glad that is straightened out. Good for all. Delay due to ill health. I read all and try. My general observation is that many who have claimed after HPB died to "channel" her or the Masters, etc... have offered vast sets of names and hierarchies -- but rarely give explanations. Names by themselves lend no authority or help, but they appear to be learne= d and overwhelm new students.=20 THEOSOPHY is for all and especially newcomers. It provides no "seats" for older students, if their contributions are not of real assistance to gettin= g to know ones' self and its potentials -- and offer some clues to self-development of a noble and compassionate kind.=20 You write: "...Angel of the Presence and The Dweller on the Threshold, the reunion with past selves on the astral." To me these are ever-present within ourselves -- as they represent the "monads" (or life-atoms) that we need to exist here, on. We have shaped and defined them with our past choices. We as immortal MONADS are ourselves the mysterious triad of SPIRIT, MATTER and MIND. We (as spiritual beings -- Monads) -- never die, but always advance from life to life with our burden of those "monads of lesser experience" who hav= e chosen us to be their guide and mentor . We cannot throw them off or away. But we can teach them to develop their own independent self-consciousness and commence their own self-guided pilgrimage as our companions and friends= . I think this is important. They have inherently the same capacities and qualities that we all do. This is an example of how Nature develops, through the fires and trials o= f developing self-consciousness, those assistants that it can trust to assist it impartially and honestly. Look at this: "We say, "I am happy, or I am sad," "I am sick or I am well," "I am contented or I am dissatisfied," all of these expressions being due to some form or condition which is changeable.=20 We should observe that the self-identifying attachment is chiefly concerned with the present form and conditions, although we are aware that other form= s and conditions have existed in the past, to which we were attached by like or dislike, and that still others will exist in the future. Through all the changes of the past we have gone; through all the changes o= f the future we must go. The past changes have perished; the present changes are perishing; the future changes will also perish; but "we" remain through them all, unchanged and unchanging.=20 If we can grasp this idea and hold to it, we will have taken the first step towards right knowledge and freedom, for, as an ancient sage has put it, "The soul is the Perceiver; is assuredly vision itself pure and simple; unmodified; and looks directly upon ideas." [Patanjali, p. 24] In this chapter are the following statements of a similar kind: "I am the knower in ever mortal body ;" "As a single sun illuminateth the whole world, even so doth the One Spirit illumine every body ;" "He who seeth th= e Supreme [191] Being existing alike imperishable in all perishable things, sees indeed ;" "Perceiving the same lord present in everything and every where, he does not by the lower self (Ahankara) destroy his own soul, but goeth to the supreme end." It must be apparent to every one who thinks, that to be immortal necessitates being changeless, for that which changes has no stability.=20 There could not be a continuity of consciousness even through one physical existence, un-less there is permanence of identity; the same "I" has noted the conditions, ideas, and feelings from childhood up to the present time, and will note them through all the years to come. This Western mind of ours finds a difficulty in reconciling "changelessness= " with "progression;" this is because of Ahankara, the tendency to identify ourselves with forms and conditions.=20 Forms and conditions do change, but not of themselves; there is That which causes change to succeed change, and That is the indwelling spirit, which continually impels the instruments It has evolved towards further perfection.=20 So progress and evolution mean an unfolding from within outward, a constant impulsion towards a better and better instrument for the use of the Spirit-the Self within. [192 ] "The spirit in the body is called Maheswara, the Great Lord, the spectator, the admonisher, the sustainer, the enjoyer, and also Paramatma, the highest soul." This sentence really tells the whole story; the Spirit sees, rectifies, sustains and enjoys through Its instrument or vehicle; the ideal of progress is a perfected vehicle which will contact and reflect in the 'highest sense all worlds and all beings. The term "body" has been used throughout this chapter, but it must not be supposed that only the physical body is meant. The physical body is include= d in the term, because itself is the product of involution and evolution from higher states of substance or matter.=20 Krishna says "Know that Prakriti or nature, (sub stance), and Purusha the spirit, are without beginning. And know that the passions and the three qualities are sprung from Nature. Nature or prakriti is said to be that which operates in producing cause and effect in actions."=20 There can be no action unless there is something to be acted upon; that something is the highest substance; it is that which fills all space, and from which all denser forms of sub stance or matter have been evolved, and within which they are contained. Thus, the body represents on this plane al= l the other states of=20 [193] substance from which it has been evolved; it is surrounded by, and connected with them. A study of the Seven Principles of Man will give an understanding of this statement, if it is remembered that Man, the Thinker, is not any of his principles; they are his vehicles or instruments. "Individual spirit or Purusha is said to be the cause of experiencing pain and pleasure" (through the connection with nature found in the instrument) = ; "for spirit, when invested with matter or prakriti experienceth the qualities that proceed from Prakriti; its connection with these qualities" (and self-identification with them) "is the cause of its rebirth in good an= d evil wombs." ' Krishna says that "the passions and the three qualities are sprung from nature" (prakriti). The three qualities represent attachment to bodily existence through love of that which is good and pleasant (sattva) through = a propensity for passion and desire (rajas); and through heedlessness, which destroys the power of judgment. They are all due to self-identification wit= h one form or an other of bodily existence. That which informs and moves all manifestation is the One Spirit. That Spirit is [194] the Real and Permanent in all forms and beings; as Krishna says "it i= s wisdom itself, the object of wisdom, and that which is to be gained by wisdom ;" it is "the receptacle and the seed ," it is the power to perceive= , the consciousness, the life in all things.=20 It is the cause of all manifestation and the holder of all knowledge gained thereby. Causing and perceiving change, It changes not. All power and all law proceed from It, are inherent in It. This is the meaning of "Spirit," where Krishna says in conclusion: "Those who with the eye of wisdom thus perceive what is the difference between the body and Spirit, and the destruction of the illusion of objects, go to the Supreme."=20 By the "illusion of objects" is meant, the seeing of the objects as different from Spirit. Each object may be called an expression of Spirit through various evolved vehicles, whether these be called atoms, molecules, or forms composed of them. In the "Voice of the Silence," a statement of the same import may be remembered: "The eye of Spirit-the eye which never closes, the eye for whic= h there is no veil in all her (Nature's) kingdoms." All creatures, being essentially Spirit, strive (consciously or unconsciously) to realize their [195 ] spiritual being through contact psychical and physical with all manifested nature; some by meditation; some by service; some-mistakenly-by selfishness through separateness.=20 While all paths lead to the Supreme, it is only when the Permanent as distinguished from the Perishable is realized, that erroneous paths are forsaken and the true Path followed." BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES, pp. 190 - 195 I think these ideas are helpful, Best wishes,=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Behalf Of Cass Silva Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:47 PM To: Subject: Re: God and the brute Dear Dallas =20 "The God within begins with Manas or Mind, and it is the struggle between this God and the brute with Theosophy speaks of and warns about." W.Q.Judg= e =20 Unfortunately, thaprin, misquoted what I was saying, by cut and pasting my name to her statement "This is a false statement", or something to that effect. I suggested that Thalprin take up her notion that this statement was false with Mr.Judge and not with me, as it completely agrees with my thinking. =20 In truth, what Judge said, was absolutely spot on in regard to my studies o= f The Dweller on the Threshold.=20=20 =20 There seems to be a 24-36 hour delay in my postings and when you receive them which I think is compounding the issue, and also my syntax doesnt help= . =20 "The Dweller" can be interpreted in several ways, the struggle between the Higher Self and Lower Self, the kosmic battle between the Angel of the Presence and The Dweller on the Threshold, the reunion with past selves on the astral. =20 So, we are in agreement on one or another interpretation. Regards Cass From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun May 01 03:55:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15493 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 10:55:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 10:55:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 10:55:33 -0000 Received: from [209.179.140.27] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DSC6k-0004Xz-2E; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:55:32 -0400 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 03:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c54e3c$4a27e520$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d0b91324803e00b082f851c3ee0caf4a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: conjunction of Sun , Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Apl 30 2005 RE: The significance of the conjunction of sun , Mercury,=20 Mars, and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign Dear C: It always helps me (in time saving) if you can give me a page reference. As I understand it the Ancients who were recorders of astronomical events took note of the cycles of time involved and these were not only physical events like deluges, earthquakes, the shifting of continents, the rise and fall of races and civilizations, etc..., and but included psychical, emotional and mental cycles. See S D II pp. 68-70 for the enormous time-periods covered. ECLIPSES AND "OCCULT" SIGNIFICANCE. Any astronomical event has both local and world-wide effects. The planets, zodiac, and movements of the Earth, Moon and Sun together, in combination or apart and separately are all similar to the workings of a very complex but finely adjusted clock. According to HPB ( S D ) they reflect those times and cycles which bring the return of Karmic effects. Those Karmic causes may have been generated aeons ago. Some are known by us, most are not. Sages know of them and looking in the "Astral Light" see there the causes and effects of those cycles. We guess. Our "astrology" is very speculative. We refer to ancient texts, grimoires, kabalistic and Rosicrucian codexes, etc... but the key to accurate understanding remains to be proven. Take Nostradamus' dark sayings -- usually they are verified after the events, and the symbols and emblems that he used become clear retrospectively. As to the future? It is was said by a wise theosophical writer that "the clear minded and the brave" will be able to meet any karmic effects as they ought to be met: with equanimity and the certainty that Karma can adjust all effects to their causes so that all those involved may profit from them. Have we developed such an all-inclusive vision yet ? Suppose that we could see or be told the future ? Do you think that any one of us might not then take advantage of such knowledge to try to twist events to suit himself personally? And, thus, interfering with the karmic event, vitiate it ? Only those who are pure in spirit and in motive can deal with pre-cognition by letting events take care of themselves as Karma dictates. Is this fatalism? No. Since each free-will individual makes decisions based on his self-determination, knowledge and desires. Are those desires pure ? There is the real question. Are we still trying to secure some personal advantage ? If so, why ? only we can answer that to ourselves. And what about others ? Are they to be abandoned to their sad fate ? No warning ? No attempt to secure for them and advantage that we would use for ourselves ?=20=20 Our whole "progress and advance" depends on our grasping the intricate and intimate relation of all beings (Monads) - we have to learn to cherish and love others and so protect them when necessary, if we can. Let's say that a= s we are immortals, we have been in close relationships in the past and will so be in the future. Other references:=20 In the S D we find on : =20 ASTRONOMERS Asuramaya, antediluvian S D II 47-51 adept, knew of Mars, Venus races II 699=20 Garga oldest, of India II 49n=20 modern, on Great Pyramid II 432=20 record cyclic events I 646=20 ECLIPSES of Moon & kali-yuga S D I 661-3, 665; II 435 693 solar, lunar, & allegories II 380=20 of spiritual sun & catastrophes II 250n=20 of Sun I 407; II 76=20 [In ISIS UNVEILED see II 509] ---------------------------------------------- CYCLIC eternal motion is, & spiral S D I 640; II 80=20 evolution I 634-47 786fn ; II 34, 199, 300=20 Jupiter as immutable, law II 786=20 law II 74, 157, 252, 298, 780=20 law defied by human will I 298n=20 rebirth II 232=20 Moon &, forms of disease I 180; II 622-3 &n=20 precession of all life II 263=20 precession of equinoxes I 439n=20 progress of asterisms (Hindu) II 253=20 septenary a, law of nature II 623n 723 =20 -------------------------------------------------- ZODIAC=20 planisphere of, & Stonehenge S D II 344=20 records over 75,000 years II 374n, 431-3=20 ancient, discussed II 66, 431=20 Aryan initiates built II 750=20 Bailly re Hindu II 332, 435=20 Chinese, divided into twenty-four parts II 620-1=20 discussed I 647-8=20 Egyptian & Hindu, immensely old I 650, 657-8 ; II 435-8 Egyptian, antiquity of II 332, 431-2, 435-6=20 Greek, age of II 436 &n=20 heirloom fr Atlantis II 431-3=20 Indian, not fr Greeks I 650; II 50=20 lords of, now rebellious angels I 577=20 reddened w solar blaze II 357=20 sidereal prophecies of I 653=20 universality of I 648-9=20 =20 ZODIAC (Signs of) sacred animals of S D II 23, 181n ;=20=20 animals of Genesis are II 112n=20 archaic nations knew I 320=20 descend, ascend (explained) I 658; II 357=20 "Fiery Lions" & Leo I 213=20 kumaras connected w II 576=20 Makara (Capricorn) I 384; II 268n, 576-80=20 man's past, future in II 431-3=20 Mother of God surrounded by I 400=20 patriarchs connected w I 651 ; II 502-3=20 seven planets & twelve I 79=20 ten, twelve, among ancients II 502 &n=20 tribes of Israel & I 400, 651; II 200n=20 twelve, seven planets & races I 573 &n=20 two mystery II 502 &n=20 three Virgos of II 368, 433 when, vertical to pole II 357=20 world builders II 23=20 worshiped (2 Kings) I 649 =20 ZODIACAL allegory is historical S D II 353=20 Aryan, calculations II 436 &n=20 records (Atlantean) cannot err II 49=20 ring, relic in Gobi II 503 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In ISIS UNVEILED=20 Cycles I U I 294, 521,=20=20 meanings II 455-67, Celestial Virgin II 445,=20 Signs II 448-9 Cross in II 452-3, LIBRA in II 454, Ezekiel's Wheel II 451, Esoteric meanings II 462-4, Gods, and Brahmanical II 465, Taurus, Pisces, Aries II 465-6=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Of China I 241, 251, 260-1, 533-4, 621 Zeus, Diana, Luna I 265-7, Egyptian Mysteries II 365 =20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Cindy=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:34 AM To Subject: [bn-study] The significance of the conjunction of sun, Mercury , Mars , and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign Dear Dallas, Upon reading the SECRET DOCTRINE, HPB mentions the significance of the conjunction of all these planets in the same zodiac sign, although no mention of which sign.=20 DTB SOME MENTIONED ABOVE =20 Could you clarify?=20=20=20=20 DTB I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH DTB Is it just the conjunction that's significant, or the sign that it takes place in?=20=20 DTB I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH DTB And just what makes it so significant to begin with? =20 DTB EVIDENCE OF MASS KARMA RETURNING AT SPECIFIC TIMES Thanks! and peace, Cindy From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun May 01 03:58:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23392 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 10:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 10:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 10:58:32 -0000 Received: from [209.179.140.27] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DSC6Q-0004Xz-FI; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:55:19 -0400 To: "Zakk DUFFANY" , "A BARBARA" , "K CASSILVA." , "A CURSHEI" , "A DONNA" , "A DOTSIE." , "a KENE" , "A KOSHEK" , "Edson KRISHTAR" , "A MINDY" , "AA-Alex ULT-LA" , "Adelasie" , "AKOLLEN" , "Alan DONANT" , "Alden PARENT" , "Alexander SPRINKLE" , "Amadeo Navaro" , "Amerman, Vernon" , "Ana Maria TORRA" , "Ana T. HOWELL" , "Ananda HOTAI" , "Anita Vernon STAAR" , "ANNA" , "Anne TOWNLEY" , "Anthony KANG" , "Anthony, Louis" , "Anton ROZMAN" , "April" , "Arturo Carvajal" , "Aspasia" , "Atreya Ranganath" , "B PERRY" , "B RAMPRAKASH" , "Bee B. BROWN" , "Beryl Lawson" , "Bester, Donald" , "Bill MEREDITY" , "Brady, Gillian \(Adele\)" , "Brian GARRISSON" , "Bruce MacDonald Robert" , "Burchell, Jo" , "Caldwell, Daniel" , "Carey & Taheen AMERMAN" , "Carlos RIVERA" , "Carlos, Roberto" , "Carol NAZZARO" , "Carolyn VanHorn" , "Cheryl MCNALLY" , "Christinaka" , "Christinalee STEMAKER" , "Coker, Nancy" , "Colleen WALL" , "Collin PRICE" , "Cosmic_Piper" , "Coussa, Samir" , "Cyrus B. Munshi" , "D GRATT" , "D. P" , "Dallas TenBroeck W." , "David BLANKENSHIP" , "David Grossman" , "David Niskannen" , "David Roef" , "Dawn Lindsay" , "Delaney Deanna" , "Dennis Charvez" , "Dennis FEY" , "DeSantis, Wisdom World" , "Dick Slusser" , "Dirk" , "dlux" , "Don Rodolfo" , "Donna GROWCOCK" , "DULCYONE" , "Duncan & Denise Walker" , "Eduardo Velasquez" , "Eklund, Dara" , "Eldon B Tucker" , "Elizabeth" , "Elizabeth Prent" , "Eloise Hart" , "ELYON" , "Ema Rhino" , "Engineer, Fali" , "'Eras JOHNSON'" , "Eric JOHNSON" , "Erica Letzerich" , "'Ernest & Rogelle PELLETIER'" , "Errol, Fernandes" , "ESMIEU, Gita, Dominique, Shanti" , "Estelle Anshen" , "Etzion Becker" , "Eugene WIOLIAMS" , "Eva MOBERG" , "EWB" , "F. NORD" , "Faulkner, John" , "Flagolet, Vijaya" , "FODSHEAD" , "FOHAT \(FOHAT\)" , "Ford, Robin " , "Frank REITEMEYER" , "Fred Davis" , "Fred Heltzel" , "G. Srinivas" , "Gabriel Blechman" , "Gabriela L. Valente" , "Gail Stevenson" , "Garrett Riegg" , "Gee KAY j. LUPER" , "Gegory Raymond" , "George & Judy ROUX" , "Gerald Schueler" , "Gilda Cello" , "Giovanna Zammit" , "Gmcism" , "GNOSIS284" , "Gopi" , "Gray, Laura" , "Greg Gourlay" , "Gregory Tillett" , "Grenier Michael" , "Greta CARROLL" , "Grossman, Richard" , "GROUP THEOSOPHIA" , "Guillermo REYES" , "Gultekin, Enrah" , "GWEN" , "H MAUREEN" , "H Stella \(Stella H\)" , "H. Dantzler" , "Harding, Michael" , "Harry & Jewell Tyldlsly" , "Heltzel, Richard" , "Hermes Graphinc" , "Hughes, Daniel" , "I Harling" , "Iain BUIK" , "Ian McRae" , "INTAYAMAT" , "ISSELAIN" , "J M ROSS" , "J Riegg" , "J. P. Deveney \(J. P. Deveney\)" , "James FOX" , "James Santucci" , "Jean-Louis Siemons" , "JEF" , "Jerry Ekins" , "Jill LEE \(Brady\)" , "Jim Peacock" , "Jim Sal COLBERT" , "JoAnn Dunn" , "John & Laura Gray" , "John Beers" , "John Fossa" , , "John SAMBLO" , "John Vorstemans \(John Vorstemans\)" , "Jon Knebel" , "Jonathan GRAY" , "Jonathan Hunt" , "Joseph Long" , "Joseph MARTIN" , "Jourdan, Rosemary" , "Juan Guillemo VIERA" , "Judy" , "Judy Savnavark" , "Julia Beach" , "Julien Y. Kim" , "Kaire, Neatte" , "Kamal Singh RAJPUT" , "Karen Borges" , "Kathy Boggs" , "Katinka Hesselink" , "Kaylor, Diane" , "Kazimir Majorinc" , "Keith PRITZKER" , "Kevin Kyrephex" , "Kier, Dennis" , "Klaus & Pat Cutersail" , "Konstantin ZAITAV" , "Koshek SWAMINATHAN" , "Kundaji, Vijay" , "Kusek, Mark" , "L RIVER DEE" , "LALAYA-7" , "Laura LESCHINER" , "Lavern, Riki" , "Lee Donnelly" , "Leon Maurer \(Leon Maurer\)" , "Liebermnan, Martin" , "Linda Smith" , "Lindsay, Phillip" , "Lisa Blasquez" , "Lodge of Theosophists United" , "Lord Dorothy" , "Ltd Akasha" , "M M Nisk" , "M. D. RUFUS" , "Maddock, Tony" , "Mangala RAMPRAKASH" , "Mann, Francoise" , "Manuel LANZA" , "Marc OLESKY" , "Maria Konstan Toulaki" , "Marina FALGREN" , "Marina Sisson" , "Mark SOBERS" , "Marrie Crowe" , "Mary WORKMAN" , "Mauri Hart" , "McClosky, Leigh & Carla" , "McGuiness, Mary" , "Mentor Dave" , "Mic Forster" , "Michael BASSO" , "Michael Gomes" , "MIchael Hutchinson" , "Michele Lidofsky" , "Micheline Leblois" , "Mika PERALA" , "Miluka & Navarre Matlovsky" , "Morales, Pilar" , "Morton N Olesen" , "Mukkavilli" , "Munis Yararcan" , "Munise WENDE" , "Murrray Stentiford \(Murrray Stentiford\)" , "Myrra Lee \(Myrra Lee\)" , "N C. RAMANUJACHARI" , "Nigel H. CAREYTA" , "N. PHILIP" , "Nancy Malcom" , "Nancy STANLEY" , "Netemara" , "Nicholas Weeks \(Nicholas Weeks\)" , "Nina Folknn" , "Njogu, Erastus" , "Norman BIGELOW" , "Norman DEBRUS" , "Nwoye ALOYSIUS" , "Odin Townley" , "P B URWELL" , "P. VISSER" , "Pablo Sender" , "Pam-Jesse" , "Pat Reda" , "Patrick BRADY" , "Patty NATCHIE" , "Paul BADER" , "Paul GILLINGWATER" , "Paul Hamblins" , "Penny Wallace \(Penny Wallace\)" , "Perry COLES" , "Persy B. Munshi" , "Pete Wouters" , "Peter" , "Peter Bernin" , "Peter MARRIOTT" , "Peter MERRIOTT" , "Phantomdiablerie Meg" , "Philip DARBANVILLE" , "PHILOTES II" , "Phyllis Ryan" , "Pierre PRETORIUS" , "Precland" , "PRIMO OLIVEIRA" , "Questmag" , "Ramadoss" , "Ramprakash" , "Ray SMITH" , "Reed Carson" , "REGINA" , "Reginald" , "Renate DAUB" , "Renger Dijkstra" , "Richard TRUTH-SEEKER" , "Richarde FISH" , "Robert LUPERCIO" , "Roger WATT" , "Rolando Lequeux" , "Ronald EARL" , "Rouget, Odette" , "Ruben" , "Russell D. LAW" , "Ruthann LEMONTREE" , "Ryan Wertz" , "SALEV1" , "Sanders, George" , "Sarah SWINWOOD" , "Schuller, G." , "Seth ENGSTROM" , "Shawn SILVAS" , "SHIV" , "Small, Kenneth" , "Sova, Vladimir" , "Stanley G. KONZ" , "Stongs" , "Stubbs, Steve" , "Suddha Shenoy" , "Surrey WIDDOWS" , "Susan GALLAGHER" , "SUVARNA" , "Suzanne" , "Suzanne Hedley" , "Szabo Zoltan" , "Tatya" , "Thalprin, Terrie" , "Theos-Il@" , "THEOSOPHY" , "Theosophy, Study List" , "Theosophy-Circle" , "Theos-Talk" , "Theos-World" , "Theo-University-Press" , "Thomas HODGES." , "Traci" , "Tracy BROWN" , "TS-Manila" , "ULT - SAN DIEGO" , "ULT-Antwerp" , "ULT-Bombay" , "ULT--DOUALA" , "ULT-London" , "ULT-PHILADELPHIA" , "ULT-Sarasota, Fla" , "ULT-SG-Ashville" , "ULT-Washington-DC" , "Vera SANTOS" , "Vera V. Meyer" , "Vera, Santos" , "Victor Base" , "Victoria Prinz" , "Vijay & Gracy Kundaji" , "Vijayalaxmi \(Jilloo\) Kamat" , "VIKASH" , "Vina Davi" , "Vitkash Khanna" , "W. A. FRATER" , "Walt EDWARDS" , "Walter DAVIS" , "Warren Rickenbaugh \(Warren Rickenbaugh\)" , "Wellman, Janice" , "Wesley AMERMAN" , "Westcot VanHorn" , "Wheeler, Jerome" , "Whitney, Marilyn" , "Will WINDHAM" , "William Quinn" , "Wilson, Graham" , "World Maya" , "Wouters, Pierre" , "Zack Lansdowne" Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 03:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c54e3c$3e7ed170$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799eb176ea7e659ea997833152e643236b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: WHITE LOTUS DAY 2005 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May 8th 2005 WHITE LOTUS DAY HPB - An Allegory of Manifestation [From an old Sanskrit Manuscript:] "Toward the close of Pralaya (the intermediate period between two "creations" or evolutions of our phenomenal universe), the great IT, the One that rests in infinity and ever is, dropped its reflection, which expanded in limitless Space, and felt a desire to make itself cognizable by the creatures evolved from its shadow. The reflection assumed the shape of a Maharaja (great King). Devising means for mankind to learn of his existence, the Maharaja built of the qualities inherent in him a place, in which he concealed himself, satisfied that people should perceive the outward form of his dwelling. But when they looked up to the place where stood the palace, whose one corner stretched into the right infinitude, and the other into the left infinitude--the little men saw nothing; the palace was mistaken by them for empty space, and being so vast remained invisible to their eyes. Then the Maharaja resorted to another expedient. He determined to manifest himself to the little creatures whom he pitied--not as a whole but only in his parts. He destroyed the palace built by him from his manifesting qualities, brick by brick, and began throwing the bricks down upon the earth one after the other. Each brick was transformed into an idol, the red ones becoming Gods and the grey ones Goddesses; into these the Devatas and Devatis--the qualities and the attributes of the Unseen--entered and animated them. ----- HPB commented: The outward form of idolatry is but a veil, concealing the one Truth like the veil of the Saitic Goddess. [Isis I vi] Only that truth, being for the few, escapes the majority... Yet, while for the great majority the space behind the veil is really impenetrable...those endowed with the "third eye" (the eye of Siva), discern in the Cimmerian darkness and chaos a light in whose intense radiance all shape born of human conception disappears, leaving the all-informing divine Principle, to be felt--not seen; sensed--never expressed. This allegory shows polytheism in its true light and that it rests of the One unity, as does all the rest...The direct [ and the ] refracted rays of one and the same Luminary. What are Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, but the triple Ray that emanates directly form the Light of the World ? The three Gods with their Goddesses are the three dual representations of Purusha the Spirit, and Prakriti--matter; the six are symbolized by Svayambhuva the self-existence, unmanifested Deity. They are only the symbols personifying the Unseen Presence in every phenomenon of nature." Source: Note of HPB on Idolatry, Blavatsky: COLLECTED WORKS, Vol. 7, p. 272-4 "...founded his dwelling" show clearly that in Kabala, as in India, the Deity was considered as the Universe, and was not, in his origin, the extra-cosmic God he is now." SD I 92 fn "I am the Ego seated in the Heart of all beings. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all existing things." -- Krishna BHAGAVAD GITA =================================== "...while the T S movement of today was distinctly under the care of the Adepts, it was not the only one through which effect was sought to be made on the race-thought and ethics, but that in many different ways efforts were constantly put forward ...she insisted that the T S wears the badge...of the Eastern and Ancient Schools...the old and united Lodge of Adepts ...[It would be reasonable to say]...that Brotherhood has the knowledge and power... to use every agency which is in touch with humanity." WQJ, Articles, Vol. I, p. 244 "...for those who have studied in the right way plenty of proof has been offered; for others that proof exists within themselves. The former class has had tangible evidence in the way of letters and appearances of the Adepts before their eyes; the latter concluded long ago that the Masters are necessities of evolution... in the West the idea of the existence of the Adepts and of Their connection with our movement was first brought forward in this century and in our Society by H.P.Blavatsky, who, consistently throughout her career, has declared that the Adepts--whom she was pleased to call her Masters--directed her to engage in this work and have always helped and directed her throughout... They have adopted the T S as one of Their agents in this century for disseminating the truth about man and nature...Their motive is to help the moral--and hence external -- progress of humanity, and their methods to work from behind the scenes by means of agents suited for the work...the agency is not restricted to one person, but that all sincere lovers of truth are used to that end, whether they know it or not...the personal effort put forth by the members will not account for the spread-ing of the movement...As the Masters exist, so They help us; and as we deserve, so will They repay." (WQJ, Articles, Vol. II, pp. 79-80) ----------------------- Best wishes Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 04:22:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39394 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 11:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 11:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 11:22:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 11:22:11 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.221] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 11:22:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 11:22:09 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1032 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.105.61 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Besant was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However when they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor was it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not to look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge of ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her leadership Theosophical Society became truly international organization with recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was written when she was leader which was appreciated around the world. Blavatsky became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent due to work of Annie Besant. So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was incorporated, practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society. Anand Gholap From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 04:28:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76754 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 11:28:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 11:28:38 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1075 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.105.61 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net > Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However when > they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor was > it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not to > look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with > Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge of > ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her leadership > Theosophical Society became truly international organization with > recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was written > when she was leader which was appreciated around the world. Blavatsky > became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made > TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically > founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent due > to work of Annie Besant. > So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was incorporated, > practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society. > Anand Gholap From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun May 01 04:54:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18308 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 11:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 11:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 11:54:22 -0000 Received: from [209.179.140.27] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DSD1e-0007II-Rm; Sun, 01 May 2005 07:54:19 -0400 To: Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 04:54:13 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c54e44$817924f0$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791518f71d2868a68e371d1e62163a5bb1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Anand:=20 Please ---- !!!!!!=20=20 This is absolute balderdash -- you have never read the history of the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT have you?=20=20 What is your basis for writing anything? Do you seriously believe no one i= s checking you?=20=20 Well I guess Karma will take care of it in due course. But I am glad I am not in your shoes.=20 Should we say: "Thanks for the advertising ?"=20 Now we can be sure that many others are carefully checking out what you write and say. Of what value is nonsense?=20=20 Get serious, if you can.=20 How can people trust you if you rattle so loudly?=20 Who or what are you echoing ?=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Anand Gholap Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:29 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: BESANT was real founder of TS.=20 HPB's role was only symbolic > Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However=20 when=20 > they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor=20 was=20 > it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not=20 to=20 > look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with=20 > Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge=20 of=20 > ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her=20 leadership=20 > Theosophical Society became truly international organization with=20 > recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was=20 written=20 > when she was leader which was appreciated around the world.=20 Blavatsky=20 > became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant=20 made=20 > TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was=20 technically=20 > founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent=20 due=20 > to work of Annie Besant. > So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was=20 incorporated,=20 > practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society.=20 > Anand Gholap =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From ramadoss@gbronline.com Sun May 01 05:27:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@gbronline.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46719 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 12:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 12:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO GBRonline.com) (69.9.90.12) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 12:27:29 -0000 Received: from mkrmain.gbronline.com (unverified [69.9.96.206]) by mta2.GBRonline.com (GBRonline.com Mail System) with ESMTP id 49232527 for ; Sun, 01 May 2005 07:24:09 -0500 CDT Return-Path: Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20050501072548.054c4290@mail.gbronline.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.gbronline.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 07:28:16 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003a01c54e44$817924f0$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-20421368 X-DNS-Paranoid: DNS lookup didn't match (69.9.96.206)->(gbrdialin)->() X-Avast: Message is clean X-Originating-IP: 69.9.90.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: MKR Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=99056674 X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss78229 Dear Dallas: When I read the post, I was reminded of an incident years ago when my boss told one of the employees that it is time that he gets head checked!!! mkr At 04:54 AM 05/01/05 -0700, you wrote: >Anand: > > Please ---- !!!!!! > >This is absolute balderdash -- you have never read the history of the >THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT have you? > > >What is your basis for writing anything? Do you seriously believe no one is >checking you? > > >Well I guess Karma will take care of it in due course. But I am glad I am >not in your shoes. > > >Should we say: "Thanks for the advertising ?" > >Now we can be sure that many others are carefully checking out what you >write and say. > > >Of what value is nonsense? > > Get serious, if you can. > > >How can people trust you if you rattle so loudly? > > Who or what are you echoing ? > > >Dallas > >============================== > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 04/29/05 From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 05:47:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59575 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 12:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 12:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30114.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.222) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 12:47:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 61351 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 12:47:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501124734.61349.qmail@web30114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30114.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 05:47:34 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 05:47:34 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001501c54e3c$4a27e520$1b8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.222 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World conjunction of Sun , Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Cindy, Do you know what sign these planets are all in conjunction? Cass "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: Apl 30 2005 RE: The significance of the conjunction of sun , Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign Dear C: It always helps me (in time saving) if you can give me a page reference. As I understand it the Ancients who were recorders of astronomical events took note of the cycles of time involved and these were not only physical events like deluges, earthquakes, the shifting of continents, the rise and fall of races and civilizations, etc..., and but included psychical, emotional and mental cycles. See S D II pp. 68-70 for the enormous time-periods covered. ECLIPSES AND "OCCULT" SIGNIFICANCE. Any astronomical event has both local and world-wide effects. The planets, zodiac, and movements of the Earth, Moon and Sun together, in combination or apart and separately are all similar to the workings of a very complex but finely adjusted clock. According to HPB ( S D ) they reflect those times and cycles which bring the return of Karmic effects. Those Karmic causes may have been generated aeons ago. Some are known by us, most are not. Sages know of them and looking in the "Astral Light" see there the causes and effects of those cycles. We guess. Our "astrology" is very speculative. We refer to ancient texts, grimoires, kabalistic and Rosicrucian codexes, etc... but the key to accurate understanding remains to be proven. Take Nostradamus' dark sayings -- usually they are verified after the events, and the symbols and emblems that he used become clear retrospectively. As to the future? It is was said by a wise theosophical writer that "the clear minded and the brave" will be able to meet any karmic effects as they ought to be met: with equanimity and the certainty that Karma can adjust all effects to their causes so that all those involved may profit from them. Have we developed such an all-inclusive vision yet ? Suppose that we could see or be told the future ? Do you think that any one of us might not then take advantage of such knowledge to try to twist events to suit himself personally? And, thus, interfering with the karmic event, vitiate it ? Only those who are pure in spirit and in motive can deal with pre-cognition by letting events take care of themselves as Karma dictates. Is this fatalism? No. Since each free-will individual makes decisions based on his self-determination, knowledge and desires. Are those desires pure ? There is the real question. Are we still trying to secure some personal advantage ? If so, why ? only we can answer that to ourselves. And what about others ? Are they to be abandoned to their sad fate ? No warning ? No attempt to secure for them and advantage that we would use for ourselves ? Our whole "progress and advance" depends on our grasping the intricate and intimate relation of all beings (Monads) - we have to learn to cherish and love others and so protect them when necessary, if we can. Let's say that as we are immortals, we have been in close relationships in the past and will so be in the future. Other references: In the S D we find on : ASTRONOMERS Asuramaya, antediluvian S D II 47-51 adept, knew of Mars, Venus races II 699 Garga oldest, of India II 49n modern, on Great Pyramid II 432 record cyclic events I 646 ECLIPSES of Moon & kali-yuga S D I 661-3, 665; II 435 693 solar, lunar, & allegories II 380 of spiritual sun & catastrophes II 250n of Sun I 407; II 76 [In ISIS UNVEILED see II 509] ---------------------------------------------- CYCLIC eternal motion is, & spiral S D I 640; II 80 evolution I 634-47 786fn ; II 34, 199, 300 Jupiter as immutable, law II 786 law II 74, 157, 252, 298, 780 law defied by human will I 298n rebirth II 232 Moon &, forms of disease I 180; II 622-3 &n precession of all life II 263 precession of equinoxes I 439n progress of asterisms (Hindu) II 253 septenary a, law of nature II 623n 723 -------------------------------------------------- ZODIAC planisphere of, & Stonehenge S D II 344 records over 75,000 years II 374n, 431-3 ancient, discussed II 66, 431 Aryan initiates built II 750 Bailly re Hindu II 332, 435 Chinese, divided into twenty-four parts II 620-1 discussed I 647-8 Egyptian & Hindu, immensely old I 650, 657-8 ; II 435-8 Egyptian, antiquity of II 332, 431-2, 435-6 Greek, age of II 436 &n heirloom fr Atlantis II 431-3 Indian, not fr Greeks I 650; II 50 lords of, now rebellious angels I 577 reddened w solar blaze II 357 sidereal prophecies of I 653 universality of I 648-9 ZODIAC (Signs of) sacred animals of S D II 23, 181n ; animals of Genesis are II 112n archaic nations knew I 320 descend, ascend (explained) I 658; II 357 "Fiery Lions" & Leo I 213 kumaras connected w II 576 Makara (Capricorn) I 384; II 268n, 576-80 man's past, future in II 431-3 Mother of God surrounded by I 400 patriarchs connected w I 651 ; II 502-3 seven planets & twelve I 79 ten, twelve, among ancients II 502 &n tribes of Israel & I 400, 651; II 200n twelve, seven planets & races I 573 &n two mystery II 502 &n three Virgos of II 368, 433 when, vertical to pole II 357 world builders II 23 worshiped (2 Kings) I 649 ZODIACAL allegory is historical S D II 353 Aryan, calculations II 436 &n records (Atlantean) cannot err II 49 ring, relic in Gobi II 503 =============================================== In ISIS UNVEILED Cycles I U I 294, 521, meanings II 455-67, Celestial Virgin II 445, Signs II 448-9 Cross in II 452-3, LIBRA in II 454, Ezekiel's Wheel II 451, Esoteric meanings II 462-4, Gods, and Brahmanical II 465, Taurus, Pisces, Aries II 465-6 Of China I 241, 251, 260-1, 533-4, 621 Zeus, Diana, Luna I 265-7, Egyptian Mysteries II 365 Best wishes, Dallas ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:34 AM To Subject: [bn-study] The significance of the conjunction of sun, Mercury , Mars , and Jupiter in the same zodiac sign Dear Dallas, Upon reading the SECRET DOCTRINE, HPB mentions the significance of the conjunction of all these planets in the same zodiac sign, although no mention of which sign. DTB SOME MENTIONED ABOVE Could you clarify? DTB I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH DTB Is it just the conjunction that's significant, or the sign that it takes place in? DTB I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH DTB And just what makes it so significant to begin with? DTB EVIDENCE OF MASS KARMA RETURNING AT SPECIFIC TIMES Thanks! and peace, Cindy Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 05:59:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53109 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 12:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 12:59:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.83) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 12:59:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 58560 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 12:59:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501125926.58558.qmail@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 05:59:25 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 05:59:25 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.83 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess some people would rather listen to the apostles than Jesus. Wasn't the apostles job to simplify it for those who weren't consciously ready for the true inner doctrine? Cass "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: Anand: Please ---- !!!!!! This is absolute balderdash -- you have never read the history of the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT have you? What is your basis for writing anything? Do you seriously believe no one is checking you? Well I guess Karma will take care of it in due course. But I am glad I am not in your shoes. Should we say: "Thanks for the advertising ?" Now we can be sure that many others are carefully checking out what you write and say. Of what value is nonsense? Get serious, if you can. How can people trust you if you rattle so loudly? Who or what are you echoing ? Dallas ============================== -----Original Message----- From: Anand Gholap Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:29 AM To: Subject: Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic > Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However when > they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor was > it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not to > look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with > Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge of > ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her leadership > Theosophical Society became truly international organization with > recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was written > when she was leader which was appreciated around the world. Blavatsky > became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made > TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically > founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent due > to work of Annie Besant. > So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was incorporated, > practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society. > Anand Gholap Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 06:11:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28571 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 13:11:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 13:11:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.74) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 13:11:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 68726 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 13:11:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501131133.68724.qmail@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:11:33 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 06:11:33 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.74 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: What's happening X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have just found out that someone has tried to unsubscribe my name from another group. I had the same trouble with Theos-Talk via Yahoo and had to provide a new password. Does anyone know how this can happen? Cass __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 06:28:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71091 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 13:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 13:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 13:28:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:28:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:28:55 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 13:28:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1246 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.104.86 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net These are clear historical facts. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" wrote: > > Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However > when > > they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor > was > > it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not > to > > look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with > > Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge > of > > ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her > leadership > > Theosophical Society became truly international organization with > > recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was > written > > when she was leader which was appreciated around the world. > Blavatsky > > became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant > made > > TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was > technically > > founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent > due > > to work of Annie Besant. > > So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was > incorporated, > > practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society. > > Anand Gholap From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 06:33:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88641 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 13:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 13:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 13:33:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:33:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:33:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 13:33:10 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050501125926.58558.qmail@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 341 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.104.86 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net > I guess some people would rather listen to the apostles than Jesus. Wasn't the apostles job to simplify it for those who weren't >consciously ready for the true inner doctrine? Writings of Besant and Leadbeater are their original. It is not derived from Blavatsky's writing. In a sense Besant Leadbeater were like Jesus. Anand Gholap From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 06:51:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70695 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 13:51:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 13:51:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.223) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 13:51:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 21729 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 13:51:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501135117.21727.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 06:51:17 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 06:51:17 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.201.223 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, you are saying that the Masters gave one teaching to HPB and an entirely different teaching to AB and CWL? Cass Silva Anand Gholap wrote: > I guess some people would rather listen to the apostles than Jesus. Wasn't the apostles job to simplify it for those who weren't >consciously ready for the true inner doctrine? Writings of Besant and Leadbeater are their original. It is not derived from Blavatsky's writing. In a sense Besant Leadbeater were like Jesus. Anand Gholap Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 06:58:26 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65312 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 13:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 13:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 13:58:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:58:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 13:58:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 13:58:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050501135117.21727.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1295 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.104.86 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Theos-World Re: BESANT was real founder of TS. HPB's role was only symbolic X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net Masters don't give teaching. Disciples write their experiences and observations. Naturally some differences are invevitable. Two persons don't perceive one thing exactly same. Still differences are few and they don't change overall understanding of the subject for ordinary members. e.g. difference about Mars and Mercury. Whoever may be correct, it hardly makes any difference in our lives. Anand Gholap --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > So, you are saying that the Masters gave one teaching to HPB and an entirely different teaching to AB and CWL? > Cass Silva > > Anand Gholap wrote: > > I guess some people would rather listen to the apostles than Jesus. > Wasn't the apostles job to simplify it for those who weren't > >consciously ready for the true inner doctrine? > > Writings of Besant and Leadbeater are their original. It is not derived > from Blavatsky's writing. In a sense Besant Leadbeater were like Jesus. > Anand Gholap > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 07:07:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89640 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 14:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 14:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 14:07:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:07:53 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.219] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:07:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:07:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 811 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand versus Morya and Koot Hoomi???? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, You wrote: "Masters don't give teaching. Disciples write their experiences and observations." Now compare what you wrote above with just the following three statements from the Masters: Master Morya wrote: "...I the humble undersigned Fakir certify that the Secret Doctrine is dictated to Upasika partly by myself and partly by my Brother K. H." Master Koot Hoomi wrote: "...portions in the Secret Doctrine have been copied by the pen of Upasika [HPB] into its pages, though without quotation marks, from my own manuscript ..." "I have also noted, your thoughts about the 'Secret Doctrine.'... Every mistake or erroneous notion, corrected and explained by her from the works of other theosophists was corrected by me, or under my instruction." Some food for thought. Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 07:18:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51227 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 14:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 14:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 14:18:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:18:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:18:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:18:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 732 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand versus Melton and Ellwood????? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, You wrote: "Blavatsky became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent due to work of Annie Besant." Now compare what you wrote above with what the following two well-known scholars and experts on religion and minority religions have written: "Madame Blavatsky...stands out as the fountainhead of modern occult thought." J. Gordon Melton et al. New Age Almanac. 1991. "H.P. Blavatsky...is...the most important theosophical writer and teacher of the modern era." Robert Ellwood. Theosophy. 1986. Some food for thought.... Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 07:29:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70589 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 14:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 14:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 14:29:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:29:57 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.224] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 14:29:57 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:29:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 778 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Blavatsky's fame X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, You wrote: "Blavatsky became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent due to work of Annie Besant." But consider the following. In 1891 when Madame Blavatsky died, she was a very famous woman. I have collected hundreds of obituaries of her as found in the newspapers of the day. I have always been amazed at how extensive was the coverage of her death throughout the world. Here is just one of those articles in the newspapers: Madame Blavatsky Reprinted from the New-York Daily Tribune, Sunday, May 10, 1891, p. 6. See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/anonmmeblav91b.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From mhart@idirect.ca Sun May 01 07:47:00 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16296 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 14:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 14:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jandor.look.ca) (207.136.80.122) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 14:46:57 -0000 Received: from [199.243.58.60] (helo=idirect.ca) by jandor.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1DSFig-0007Zu-N3 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 May 2005 14:46:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4274EBC0.5060102@idirect.ca> Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 10:46:24 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on phi.look.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.0 required=9.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.1 (built Tue Feb 24 05:09:27 GMT 2004) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes X-Originating-IP: 207.136.80.122 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Mauri Subject: re "blind beliefs" and Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn I think "blind belief re Theosophy" might do with some defining, for a start. And maybe if people started speculating more, using more quotes and qualifiers in an effort to indicate to themselves and others that "blind beliefs" might not be all that safe anywhere ... Well, not that that kind of thing might not be seen to over-promote possibly latent tendencies, in some cases, maybe, for getting into various less-than-wanted tangents, maybe, in some cases, but - And not that some tangents might not seem worse than some "blind beliefs," maybe, in some cases, but - This topic reminds me of "adding manas to mixes, in general." If "manas" is "karmic," and if the latter is "Mayavic"... then wouldn't there be various senses/interpretations that might, in turn, depending on one's definition for "manasic mix/es," result in the likes of "blind in one sense" and/or "sensible in another sense"... Seems to me that, eg, cult-like activities/beliefs might result where various forms of speculative qualifiers are discouraged (as per Gordon Urquhart's THE POPE'S ARMADA ...). And I suppose all of us might want to more or less "decide for ourselves" something of other about how speculative or how belief dependent or how blind or whatever we might want to be about whatever. So what am I saying? Not much. (Thanks again, Leon, for pointing out about the circular nature of my speculative tangents. You got that right!) ^:-/ ... Mauri From GodLovesEveryone.org@gmail.com Sun May 01 08:09:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: godloveseveryone.org@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18056 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 15:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 15:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.196) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 15:09:06 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so969687rne for ; Sun, 01 May 2005 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.97.4 with SMTP id u4mr4916103rnb; Sun, 01 May 2005 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?209.128.180.72? ([209.128.180.72]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id j20sm995809rnf.2005.05.01.08.09.03; Sun, 01 May 2005 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4274F10A.3090106@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 10:08:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <20050501131133.68724.qmail@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050501131133.68724.qmail@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: John Reply-To: GodLovesEveryone.org@gmail.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What's happening X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=214327562 X-Yahoo-Profile: godloveseveryone_dot_org >Have just found out that someone has tried to unsubscribe my name from another group. > I had the same trouble with Theos-Talk via Yahoo and had to provide a new password. > >Does anyone know how this can happen? Though I can't imagine them doing it, have you investigated whether someone at the moderator level was involved? Moderators can unsubscribe people without passwords. Perfect strangers would need either your password or a moderator's password to do it. Be sure that your password is something that even your best friend, spouse, parent or child could not figure out. If someone close to you could guess what your password is within ten or twenty guesses, then a perfect stranger might be able to figure it out. If you want a password that is almost impossible to guess, use both letters and numbers, where the numbers are NOT birthdays NOT identity numbers and NOT other numbers known to your family or friends. Intersperse the letters and numbers and perhaps even throw in some swear words (by this last, I mean throw in a few #&^%@ substitutes for the swearing. -- John, webmaster www.GodLovesEveryone.org and www.MAZES.com FLASH *** FLASH *** FLASH More than 38 thousand different GOD LOVES YOU puzzles. Each maze has a different first name Each maze has a different unique solution Find your first name here: http://www.godloveseveryone.org/god-loves-name.htm Put our amazing "search box" on your web page. Details @ http://www.godloveseveryone.org/god-loves-name.htm From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 08:21:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24634 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 15:20:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 15:20:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 15:20:44 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4249 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: More Analysis of some of Anand's Statements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, You wrote: "Masters don't give teaching. Disciples write their experiences and observations. Naturally some differences are invevitable. Two persons don't perceive one thing exactly same. Still differences are few and they don't change overall understanding of the subject for ordinary members. e.g. difference about Mars and Mercury. Whoever may be correct, it hardly makes any difference in our lives. You say that "Masters don't give teaching. Disciples write their experiences and observations." But consider the following from HPB's pen: "The sole advantage which the writer has over her predecessors, is that she need not resort to personal speculations and theories. For this work is a partial statement of what she herself has been taught by more advanced students [the Masters], supplemented, in a few details only, by the results of her own study and observation. (SD, I, viii) Another comment by HPB: "When the present work was commenced, the writer [H.P. Blavatsky herself] , feeling sure that the speculation about Mars and Mercury was a mistake, applied to the Teachers [the Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version. Both came in due time, and verbatim extracts from these are now given." Anand, you also assert: "Still differences are FEW and they don't change OVERALL understanding of the subject for ordinary members." caps added. Few??? Let the reader who cares to verify your statement look at the differences and judge. Dr. Santucci wrote: "The differences between Theosophy and Neo-Theosophy are TOO NUMEROUS to mention in the context of this paper...." caps added. Again Dr. Kuhn wrote: "The articles indicate WIDE deviations, in some cases COMPLETE reversal, made by the later interpreters [Besant, Leadbeater, Jinarajadasa] from the fundamental statements of the Russian Messenger [Blavatsky] and her Overlords [the Mahatmas]." "The differences concern such matters as the personality of God, the historicity of Jesus, his identity as an individual or a principle, the desirability of churches, priestcraft and religious ceremonial, the genuineness of an apostolic succession, and a vicarious atonement, the authority of Sacraments, the nature and nomenclature of the seven planes of man's constitution, the planetary chains, the monad, the course of evolution, and many other IMPORTANT PHASES of Theosophic doctrine. This exhaustive research has made it apparent that the later exponents have allowed themselves to depart in many IMPORTANT POINTS from the teachings of H.P.B." caps added. See actual examples of those differences at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/thomas/index.htm Anand, you comment: "Still differences are few and they don't change overall understanding of the subject for ordinary members. e.g. difference about Mars and Mercury. Whoever may be correct, it hardly makes any difference in our lives." Whoever may be correct...... ?? Take just the "difference about Mars and Mercury" that you refer to. Again HPB: "When the present work was commenced, the writer [H.P. Blavatsky herself] , feeling sure that the speculation about Mars and Mercury was a mistake, applied to the Teachers [the Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version. Both came in due time, and verbatim extracts from these are now given." Again Koot Hoomi: "Every mistake or erroneous notion, corrected and explained by her from the works of other theosophists was corrected by me, or under my instruction." So Anand, who was correct?? Blavatsky and Koot Hoomi or Leadbeater and Besant? And you say that "Whoever may be correct, it hardly makes any difference in our lives." But to HPB and Koot Hoomi it was apparently important enough that they spent time and effort making the corrections. As HPB said: "Mistakes have now to be checked by the original teachings and corrected." And this was written please note in what is considered HPB's most famous work which Koot Hoomi said was "an epitome of occult truths that will make it a source of information and instruction for the earnest student for long years to come. . . ." Some food for thought... Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 08:30:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72089 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 15:29:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 15:29:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 15:29:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 15:29:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 15:29:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 15:29:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3143 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand VERSUS Koot Hoomi and Morya on Blavatsky???? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand wrote: "Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of=20 the TS. However when they were in-charge there was=20 not much acceptance of Theosophy nor was it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky=20 was told not to look into administration. She wrote=20 some 3-4 books. Compare it with Annie Besant's work.=20 Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge of ES and administration of the Theosophical Society.=20 Under her leadership Theosophical Society became truly=20 international organization with recognition in many=20 countries. Vast high quality literature was written when she was leader which was appreciated around the=20 world. Blavatsky became famous not because of her=20 writing but because Annie Besant made TS internationally=20 reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is=20 to much extent due to work of Annie Besant. So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when=20 TS was incorporated, practically Annie Besant was=20 founder of the Theosophical Society." One wonders why the Masters KH and M even wasted their time using Blavatsky when they should have used Besant instead! But here is what the Masters said about Blavatsky: "... imperfect as may be our visible agent =97 and often most=20 unsatisfactory and imperfect she is =97 yet she is the best available at present. . . . " The Mahatma Letters, 2nd edition,=20 Letter 2.=20=20=20 "This state of hers is [H.P.B.'s] intimately connected with her occult training in Tibet, and due to her being sent out alone into=20 the world to gradually prepare the way for others. After nearly a=20 century of fruitless search, our chiefs had to avail themselves of=20 the only opportunity to send out a European body. . . . " The=20 Mahatma Letters, 2nd edition, Letter 26.=20=20=20 "[H.P.B. is] a woman of most exceptional and wonderful endowments.=20 Combined with them she had strong personal defects, but just as she=20 was, there was no second to her living fit for this work. We sent=20 her to America. . . . " The Mahatma Letters, 2nd edition, Letter=20 45.=20=20=20=20 ". . . we employ agents =97 the best available. Of these for the past thirty years the chief has been the personality known as H.P.B.=20 to the world (but otherwise to us). Imperfect and very troublesome,=20 no doubt, she proves to some, nevertheless, there is no likelihood=20 of our finding a better one for years to come =97 and your theosophists should be made to understand it. Since 1885 I have not=20 written, nor caused to be written save thro' her agency, direct and=20 remote, a letter or line to anybody in Europe or America, nor=20 communicated orally with, or thro' any third party. Theosophists=20 should learn it.=20 You will understand later the significance of this declaration so=20 keep it in mind. Her fidelity to our work being constant, and her=20 sufferings having come upon her thro' it, neither I nor either of my Brother associates will desert or supplant her. . . . This you=20 must tell to all: =97 With occult matters she has everything to do. ... She is our direct agent. . . . " Letters from the Masters of=20 Wisdom, Series 1, Letter 19.=20 =20 Daniel http://hpb.cc From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun May 01 08:44:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41897 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 15:44:36 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id r.197.3e0e95eb (4560) for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 11:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <197.3e0e95eb.2fa65361@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 11:44:33 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Bing Escudero passes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano He will be missed. Chuck the Heretic From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 10:16:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13589 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 17:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 17:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 17:16:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:16:32 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.215] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:16:32 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 17:16:30 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1769 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand VERSUS Besant & Leadbeater about Blavatsky, her writings and Theosophy?? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Compare and contrast all that Anand has written apparently in an attempt to "denigrate" Blavatsky's writings and teachings with what Mrs. Besant and Mr. Leadbeater acknowledged about Blavatsky and her work: C.W. Leadbeater wrote: "...without Madame Blavatsky...there would have been no presentation of all this glorious teaching [of Theosophy] to the people of the West....I should like you to realize the fact, and to keep it ever in your minds, that all that we have and all that we have learnt, through whatever form it may now be coming to us, we really owe to Madame Blavatsky...." Mrs. Besant wrote: "In order, then, that we may trace man's pedigree aright, we shall do well to follow the broad outlines laid down by that great disciple of the Sages, H.P.B. whom here I salute, with my heart's gratitude for the light and the knowledge that she has brought to the modern world. At the very outset of these lectures, I would acknowledge my debt to her great work, The Secret Doctrine, from which the whole plan and innumerable details are taken; I have added some facts, filled up some lacunae, bridged some gulfs, perhaps, but most of the materials are here, and are drawn from that record of her vast occult knowledge, her giant grasp of facts." C. W. Leadbeater wrote: "....that great book The Secret Doctrine. . . there it remains, as a monument which will stand all through the ages. She [HPB] can never, I think, be forgotten while that and her other books remain to speak of her and for her...." Mrs. Annie Besant wrote: "....The Voice of the Silence...The book is...full of spiritual inspiration, full of food for the heart; stimulating the loftiest virtue and containing the noblest ideals...." Food for thought... Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 10:43:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56798 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 17:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 17:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 17:43:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:43:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:43:34 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 17:43:31 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 467 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand, are you confusing "quantity" with "quality"? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, You wrote: "She [H.P. Blavatsky] wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books...." But are you confusing QUANTITY with QUALITY? As HPB writes in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY: "An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust. . . . " I believe Rudolf Steiner wrote more books than Annie Besant. Therefore does that mean that Steiner's books are more important or more influential than Besant's?? Daniel http://hpb.cc From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 10:52:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72554 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 17:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 17:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 17:52:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:52:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 17:52:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 724 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.104.127 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: HPB admitted she misunderstood teaching given by Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net On 4 th January 1887 HPB wrote letter to Col. Olcott after Subba Raw (S.R.) gave opinion about Proem of SD. HPB writes " ........Let S.R. do what he likes. I give him carte blanche. I trust in his wisdom far more than in mine, for I may have misunderstood in many a point both Master and the Old G. (other Adept). They give me facts only and rarely dictate in succession. I am no maker of books you know it........" It not only tells wisdom of SR but also tells that she did misunderstand things which went into her writing. Later when she sent draft of Secrete Doctrine to Subba Raw for correcting mistakes. He went through it and told her that if he was to correct it he would have to write whole book again. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 11:02:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10666 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 18:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 18:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 18:02:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 18:02:06 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.224] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 18:02:06 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 18:02:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 327 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: On Pseudo-Theosophy & Pseudo-Adepts: Compiled from H.P. Blavatsky's Writings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell On Pseudo-Theosophy and Pseudo-Adepts: Compiled from the writings of H.P. Blavatsky As the agent of her Adept Teachers, Madame Blavatsky had some very strong words to say about pseudo- Theosophical teachings and the claims of pseudo-adepts. See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/onpseudotheosophy.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 11:19:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72233 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 18:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 18:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 18:19:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 18:19:05 -0000 Received: from [209.73.170.223] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 18:19:05 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 18:19:03 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2907 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Anand, you write: "HPB admitted she misunderstood teaching given by Masters" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Anand, I repeat what I have written to you several times: You write: "HPB admitted she misunderstood teaching given by the Masters." No she didn't admit that. She wrote: "...I MAY have misunderstood in many a point both Master and Old. G...." caps added. "I MAY have misunderstood"....does NOT mean that she did misunderstand. She didn't consider herself infallible and she simply admitted that she might be capable of making mistakes. And please consider what HPB wrote later: "Now Tookaram writes me a letter. In it he says that S.R. told him he was ready to help me and correct my S.D. provided I took out from it every reference to the Masters! Now, what's this? Does he mean to say that I should deny the Masters, or that I do not understand Them and garble the facts They give me, or that he, S.R. knows Master's doctrines better than I do?...." Read the rest of this letter and see what HPB writes. But Anand, why RELY on what Blavatsky said in your posting or what Subba Row may or may not have said about the S.D. when we have the following assurances from the Master Koot Hoomi: "I have also noted, your thoughts about the 'Secret Doctrine.' Be assured that what she [HPB] has not annotated from scientific and other works, we have given or suggested to her. Every mistake or erroneous notion, corrected and explained by her from the works of other theosophists was corrected by me, or under my instruction. It is a more valuable work than its predecessor, an epitome of occult truths that will make it a source of information and instruction for the earnest student for long years to come. . . ." Letters from the Masters of the Wisdom, Series I, p. 47 Anand, you seem to want to IGNORE what Master K.H. says above. WHY??????? The Master says that the Secret Doctrine is "an epitome of occult truths that will make it a source of information and instruction for the earnest student for long years to come. . . ." That appears to me a recommendation....and totally opposite of what you want to believe. Show some examples where you think HPB made mistakes ...hopefully major mistakes in the SD. A few....two or three or 5 of them. HPB may have made some mistakes ..... but does that negate the worth of the SD. Please ponder on what KH said in the quote I gave you earlier in this letter. Are you also trying to say that Leadbeater, for example, never made any mistakes comparable to what you think HPB did? What about his observations of the inhabitants of Mars? Anand, did Leadbeater make a mistake or two in his observations of Mars???? I really wonder if you have carefully thought all of this through. Show some prime examples of HPB's mistakes and furthermore why we should rely on Leadbeater's writings over HPB's writings, if this is what you are attempting to prove. Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 12:19:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21862 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 19:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 19:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40914.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.211) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 19:18:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 96681 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 19:18:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501191858.96679.qmail@web40914.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.21.100] by web40914.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 12:18:58 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 12:18:58 -0700 (PDT) To: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.218.78.211 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Dictionary of Gnosis & Western Esotericism: NEW !!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dictionary of Gnosis & Western Esotericism =20 Edited by Wouter J. Hanegraaff, in collaboration with=20 Antoine Faivre, Roelof van den Broek and Jean-Pierre Brach=20 =20=20=20 Order at Amazon.com: http://tinyurl.com/cwo48 =20 In print, 2005=20 Cloth with dustjacket=20 Two volumes, 1258 pages=20 This is the first comprehensive reference work to cover the entire domain o= f=20 =93Gnosis and Western Esotericism=94 from the period of Late Antiquity to t= he present.=20 Containing around 400 articles by over 180 international specialists, it pr= ovides=20 critical overviews discussing the nature and historical development of all = its=20 important currents and manifestations, from Gnosticism and Hermetism to Ast= rology,=20 Alchemy and Magic, from the Hermetic Tradition of the Renaissance to Rosicr= ucianism=20 and Christian Theosophy, and from Freemasonry and Illuminism to 19th-centur= y=20 Occultism and the contemporary New Age movement. Furthermore it contains ar= ticles=20 about the life and work of all the major personalities in the history of Gn= osis=20 and Western Esotericism, discussing their ideas, significance, and historic= al=20 influence. =20 Table of Contents=20 A selection of entries: Alchemy Amulets Aristotelianism Astrology Bacon, Francis Blake, William Blavatsky, Helena Petrovna Boehme, Jacob Bogomilism Catharism Christian Theosophy Comenius, Jan Amos Clement of Alexandria Cusa, Nicholas of Dante Alighieri Cryptography Dionysius Areopagita, -Pseudo Eriugena, Johannes Scottus Ficino, Marsilio Freemasonry Gnosticism Grail traditions Hermes Trismegistus Hermetic Literature Illuminism Intermediary Beings Jewish Influences Jung, Carl Gustav Kabbalah Magic Manichaeism Music Mysticism Neopaganism Neoplatonism New Age Movement Newton, Isaac Occult / Occultism Paracelsus Pico della Mirandola, Giovanni Reincarnation Rosicrucianism Satanism Scientology Secrecy Spiritualism Steiner, Rudolf Swedenborg, Emanuel Tarot Templars Valentinus and Valentinians Witchcraft (15th =96 17th Centuries) Zoroaster =20 'The Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism is a brilliantly conceive= d and skillfully executed reference tool unlike anything the scholarly worl= d has ever seen. In two massive volumes it covers every aspect of pagan, Je= wish, and Christian religious discourses and phenomena traditionally labele= d gnosticism, hermeticism, astrology, magic, the "occult sciences," esoteri= c religion, and much more. The detailed and insightful articles, on nearly = every related topic imaginable, are produced by an impressive array of reno= wned scholars, and usefully include up-to date bibliographies. Six years in= the making, this is a work that every student of religion, ancient and mod= ern, will certainly want to own.' Bart D. Ehrman, James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of Religiou= s Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 'The Dictionary places gnosis and esotericism in its historical perspective= =96 not only the breadth of the described phenomenon is surprising, but al= so the fact that the subjects are covered in such an objective fashion.' NRC Handelsblad, 2005 'Brill has produced a work on esotericism that will become the standard ref= erence work on the subject. Never before has such a complete overview of th= is obscure peripheral area of religion appeared.' Leidsch Dagblad (Associated Press Services), 2005. =20 Readership: All those interested in the history of religion, intellectual h= istory, art and culture in Western society from Antiquity to the present, a= s well as classicists, medievalists, historians, and theologians. =20 Wouter J. Hanegraaff is professor of History of Hermetic Philosophy and Rel= ated Currents at the University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands. He has publi= shed extensively on modern and contemporary Western esotericism, including = a book devoted to the 15th-century Christian Hermetist Lodovico Lazzarelli = and a monograph on the New Age movement.=20 Antoine Faivre is Professor emeritus of History of Esoteric and Mystical Cu= rrents in Modern and Contemporary Europe at the 5th section of the =C9cole = Pratique des Hautes =C9tudes (Sorbonne), Paris, France.=20 Roelof van den Broek is Professor emeritus of History of Christianity at th= e University of Utrecht, The Netherlands.=20 Jean-Pierre Brach is Professor of History of Esoteric Currents in Modern an= d Contemporary Europe at the 5th section of the =C9cole Pratique des Hautes= =C9tudes (Sorbonne), Paris, France.=20=20 =20 Order at Amazon.com: http://tinyurl.com/cwo48 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 13:48:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8972 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 20:48:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 20:48:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 20:48:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 20:48:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 20:48:15 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 20:48:13 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 218 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Blavatsky: Orders received . . . to establish a philosophico-religious Society. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell H.P. Blavatsky wrote in one of her scrapbooks: "Orders received from India direct to establish a philosophico-religious Society and choose a name for it, -- also to choose Olcott. July 1875" Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 01 13:54:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63507 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 20:54:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 132 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.21.100 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: See Pedro's relevant comments on what Anand has recently written X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell See Pedro's relevant comments on what Anand has recently written: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Young-Theosophists/message/2512 From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun May 01 14:45:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91411 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 21:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 21:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.57) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 21:45:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n28.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 21:45:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2005 21:43:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 21:43:13 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 984 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.104.127 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: HPB admitted she misunderstood teaching given by Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net It is never too late to mend. One can always get rid of dogmatic ideas and start reading Leadbeater and Besant and know the truth as it is. Anand Gholap --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" wrote: > On 4 th January 1887 HPB wrote letter to Col. Olcott after Subba Raw > (S.R.) gave opinion about Proem of SD. > HPB writes " ........Let S.R. do what he likes. I give him carte > blanche. I trust in his wisdom far more than in mine, for I may have > misunderstood in many a point both Master and the Old G. (other Adept). > They give me facts only and rarely dictate in succession. I am no maker > of books you know it........" > It not only tells wisdom of SR but also tells that she did > misunderstand things which went into her writing. > Later when she sent draft of Secrete Doctrine to Subba Raw for > correcting mistakes. He went through it and told her that if he was to > correct it he would have to write whole book again. From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 16:46:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34975 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 23:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 23:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.74) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 23:46:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 72296 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 23:46:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501234637.72294.qmail@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 16:46:37 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 16:46:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.74 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World What's happening X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John, Thanks for the information. Well obviously the freemasons are still a secret society that admits only the initiated and I think someone has been rapped over the knuckles for not allowing probing questions. Now I can smell the hypocricy of a group that calls itself "God I am" and purports to having no god, but the Grand Architect. Nice behaviour when they were the ones to initially invite us to join the group. They sought us, we didnt seek them. Perhaps yourself, cryodex, niki and I, and god only knows how many others can form a group, "banned from god i am" the numbers would increase so much that it wont be long before advertisers will be screaming to get on-board!!! Thanks for the info. Cass John wrote: >Have just found out that someone has tried to unsubscribe my name from another group. > I had the same trouble with Theos-Talk via Yahoo and had to provide a new password. > >Does anyone know how this can happen? Though I can't imagine them doing it, have you investigated whether someone at the moderator level was involved? Moderators can unsubscribe people without passwords. Perfect strangers would need either your password or a moderator's password to do it. Be sure that your password is something that even your best friend, spouse, parent or child could not figure out. If someone close to you could guess what your password is within ten or twenty guesses, then a perfect stranger might be able to figure it out. If you want a password that is almost impossible to guess, use both letters and numbers, where the numbers are NOT birthdays NOT identity numbers and NOT other numbers known to your family or friends. Intersperse the letters and numbers and perhaps even throw in some swear words (by this last, I mean throw in a few #&^%@ substitutes for the swearing. -- John, webmaster www.GodLovesEveryone.org and www.MAZES.com FLASH *** FLASH *** FLASH More than 38 thousand different GOD LOVES YOU puzzles. Each maze has a different first name Each maze has a different unique solution Find your first name here: http://www.godloveseveryone.org/god-loves-name.htm Put our amazing "search box" on your web page. Details @ http://www.godloveseveryone.org/god-loves-name.htm Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 16:48:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90930 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 23:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2005 23:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.79) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2005 23:48:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 53978 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 23:48:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050501234822.53976.qmail@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 16:48:22 PDT Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 16:48:22 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.79 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Magnetohydrodynamics - ATTENTION LEON X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very Cool Boat Propulsion.. :-)) Lynda Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD)=20=20=20 Magnetohydrodynamics involves magnetic fields (magneto) and fluids (hydro) = that conduct electricity and interact (dynamics).1 MHD technology is based = on a fundamental law of electromagnetism: When a magnetic field and an elec= tric current intersect in a liquid, their repulsive intersection propels th= e liquid in a direction perpendicular to both the field and the current.2 A computer actuated relay clicks in the small control room at Israel=92s Be= n Gurion University of the Negev. Nearby, a two story high power generator = starts up.=85 But there=92s a strange silence. There=92s no whine from high= speed turbine blades, no hum from copper generator coils whirring in a mag= netic field, no hiss of pressurized, superhot steam. That=92s because Etgar= 3, the world=92s first liquid metal magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) plant, has n= o moving mechanical parts. Instead, a stream of relatively low temperature = metal is forced through a magnetic field. Electricity is then tapped direct= ly from electrodes contacting this metal =97 up to 30 percent more efficien= tly than with turbine based generators, say proponents.3 In place of a propeller or paddle wheel, [the Yamato 1] uses jets of water = produced by a magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion system.=85 Inside each t= hruster, the seawater flows into six identical tubes, arranged in a circle = like a cluster of rocket engines. The ten inch diameter tubes are individua= lly wrapped in saddle shaped superconducting magnetic coils made of niobium= titanium alloy filaments packed into wires with copper cores and shells. L= iquid helium cools the coils to =96452.13=B0F, just a few degrees above abs= olute zero, keeping them in a superconducting state in which they have almo= st no resistance to electricity. Electricity flowing through the coils gene= rates powerful magnetic fields within the thruster tubes. When an electric = current is passed between a pair of electrodes inside each tube, seawater i= s forcefully ejected from the tubes, jetting the [craft] forward.4 Yamato IIhttp://www.geocities.com/skews_me_too/mhd.html=20 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun May 01 16:50:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8373 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 23:50:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP;