From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 01 01:42:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40871 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 09:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 09:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 09:42:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 09:42:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 09:42:29 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:42:29 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003301c53639$ea8d4610$af116b3e@khidr> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 385 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.214.69 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Shoes, Changes, initiations and worn out melons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo Morton, Every color one pair of shoes, so 7 pair of shoes!!!! And charming walking shoes.And durable! Bye Christina :)) > > How many pair of shoes do you in fact need before you have enough? > > > > from > M. Sufilight > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 01 01:54:14 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32315 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 09:54:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 09:54:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 09:54:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 09:54:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 09:54:13 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:54:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <424C9E55.3040508@sprynet.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 593 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.214.69 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Theos-World 3-4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky wrote: This is the REAL Matter of Fact, I think you are right to this BART They did not create one,the suggested that HPB and Olcott do so!!! > Anand Gholap wrote: > > What you are thinking is TS experiment failed and Masters are not > > with it. > > You are as good a mind reader as you are a speaker for the Mahatmas. > > > Secondly there was never any indication that Masters would create 3-4 > > Theosophical Societies. > > They didn't create one. They suggested that Blavatsky and Olcott do so. > > Bart From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 01 02:03:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59315 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 10:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 10:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 10:03:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 10:03:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 10:03:54 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:03:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 820 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.214.69 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Theos-World 3-4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker" wrote: And the Real aswer to this is: We have to do IT by ourselves!!! Christina > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > This is the REAL Matter of Fact, I think you are right to this BART > > > They did not create one,the suggested that HPB and Olcott do so!!! > > > > > > > Anand Gholap wrote: > > > What you are thinking is TS experiment failed and Masters are not > > > with it. > > > > You are as good a mind reader as you are a speaker for the > Mahatmas. > > > > > Secondly there was never any indication that Masters would create > 3-4 > > > Theosophical Societies. > > > > They didn't create one. They suggested that Blavatsky and > Olcott do so. > > > > Bart From krishtar_a@brturbo.com.br Fri Apr 01 04:24:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30450 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 12:24:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 12:24:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.brturbo.com.br) (200.199.201.180) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 12:24:38 -0000 Received: from versus (200-193-111-148.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.193.111.148]) by smtp4.brturbo.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id B6FD833FDE for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:24:35 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <004f01c536b5$dd75ea00$0301010a@versus> To: References: <200504010730.j317UdS5016688@mailproxy1.pacific.net.au> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:25:11 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: 200.199.201.180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "krishtar" Subject: Leadbeater recording and question X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213301758 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1- Dear Gregory Thanks very much for the extremely deep information on CWL=B4s recording, y= ou seem to fly in information that the majority of us wouldn=B4t have acces= s if it were=B4nt by many writings through internet. You have made an outstanding research to do the edition of your book. I enjoyed the precision of the data. I gess if it were=B4nt due to the development of this electronic mailing mu= ch of what we see and read today would only be possible if participating in= a congress, a conclave or something in international level. That=B4s why I have so much respect for this media/comunity which sometimes= makes me aggressive and kinda angry when I see that we are trading crap ta= lking instead of useful and mind-growing subjects. Alright, ok...sometimes we have to relax... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 2- A question to Mr. Tillet if no one has ever made it. Under all these researches that produced the book The Elder Brother, what f= eeling has grown in yourself towards him?Any admiration and affection for t= he character ? Was the object of the book to desmistify any aura around the character? Thanks for the attention. Krishtar=20=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: gregory=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:31 AM Subject: Theos-World Leadbeater recording The recording of two talks by Leadbeater - "To those who mourn" and "The= =20 Great White Brotherhood" - was made in Sydney in 1932 by Columbia=20 Gramophone (Aust) Pty Ltd on a 78rpm gramophone record (Reference PR.39,= =20 Part (=3D side) 1: SX.84, Part 2: SX.85), and was sold locally for five=20 shillings. It does not seem to have been a commercial recording since the= =20 record label (apart from the printed Columbia data) is typewritten. I=20 assume it was recorded either at the Columbia studios in Sydney, or at=20 radio station 2GB (=3D "Giordano Bruno" for Annie Besant who claimed to=20 have been Burno in a previous life) which was then owned and operated by= =20 the Theosophical Society, and originally had its transmitter in the=20 grounds of The Manor. I do not know how many records were pressed, or=20 what happened to the original master disk. I have one of the original=20 records, and a tape recording made from it by the Australian Broadcasting= =20 Corporation using modern filtering technology to enable the voice to be=20 more clearly heard. I do not know of any other recordings of Leadbeater,= =20 although he broadcast on a number of occasions over 2GB and his last act= =20 as a bishop in Australia (the consecration of his successor as Liberal=20 Catholic Regionary Bishop of Australia) was broadcast on the station=20 (essentially because Leadbeater was too ill to participate in a service=20 in St Alban's Cathedral, and the consecration took place in the small=20 chapel at The Manor). Pathe Gazette filmed Leadbeater and others at the dedication of the Star= =20 Amphitheatre at Balmoral (a harbourside suburb of Sydney) but my efforts= =20 to track down a copy of the film (used as a segment on a newsreel) have=20 thus far been unsuccesful. Dr Gregory Tillett =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Apr 01 05:21:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2981 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 13:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 13:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 13:21:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys Info At http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=OXa9Z/tAWLvvHpHxmK54XL4EAGyLHHnBCe3Y9fILNI4pGroh6W5bL82DzvaIiDTJ; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Importance:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.179.140.154] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DHM5e-0003Gt-Md; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:21:42 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:21:31 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c536bd$ba7de9a0$9a8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <20050329011715.76391.qmail@web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d12feabc8735e57bbe317d46c1b198ce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: The Hierarchy of Evil ? AFTER-DEATH STATES CONSCIOUSNESS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 April 1 2005 Dear Friend: How does anything get impressed or transmitted? Here are some important teachings of THEOSOPHY: ASTRAL WORLD and ASTRAL & PHYSICAL BODIES=20=20 The body, as a mass of flesh, bones, muscles, nerves, brain matter, bile, mucous, blood, and skin is an object of exclusive care for too many people, who make it their god because they have come to identify themselves with it= , meaning it only when they say "I."=20 Left to itself it is devoid of sense, and acts in such a case solely by reflex and automatic action. This we see in sleep, for then the body assume= s attitudes and makes motions which the waking man does not permit. It is lik= e mother earth in that it is made up of an infinitesimal number of "lives."=20 "LITTLE LIVES" (Monads in physical evolution,) Each of these lives is a sensitive point. Not only are there microbes, bacilli, and bacteria, but these are composed of others, and those others o= f still more minute lives. These lives are not the cells of the body, but mak= e up the cells, keeping ever within the limits assigned by evolution to the cell. They are forever whirling and moving together throughout the whole body, being in certain apparently void spaces as well as where flesh, membrane, bones, and blood are seen. They extend, too, beyond the actual outer limits of the body to a measurable distance.=20 One of the mysteries of physical life is hidden among these "lives." Their action, forced forward by the Life energy -- called Prana or Jiva -- will explain active existence and physical death. They are divided into two classes, one the destroyers, the other the preservers, and these two war upon each other from birth until the destroyers win. In this struggle the Life Energy itself ends the contest because it is life that kills. This may seem heterodox, but in Theosophical philosophy it is held to be the fact. For, it is said, the infant lives because the combination of healthy organs is able to absorb the life all around it in space, and is put to sleep each day by the overpowering strength of the stream of life, since the preserver= s among the cells of the youthful body are not yet mastered by the other class.=20 For example: SLEEP RESTORES THE BALANCE OF LIFE FORCES These processes of going to sleep and waking again are simply and solely th= e restoring of the equilibrium in sleep and the action produced by disturbing it when awake. It may be compared with the arc-electric light wherein the brilliant arc of light at the point of resistance is the symbol of the waking active man. So in sleep we are again absorbing and not resisting the Life Energy; when we wake we are throwing it off. But as it exists around u= s like an ocean in which we swim, our power to throw it off is necessarily limited. Just when we wake we are in equilibrium as to our organs and life; when we fall asleep we are yet more full of life than in the morning; it ha= s exhausted us; it finally kills the body. Such a contest could not be waged forever, since the whole solar system's weight of life is pitted against th= e power to resist focused in one small human frame.=20 OUR PHYSICAL BODY IS IN CONSTANT CHANGE. The body is considered by the Masters of Wisdom to be the most transitory, impermanent, and illusionary of the whole series of constituents in man. No= t for a moment is it the same. Ever changing, in motion in every part, it is in fact never complete or finished though tangible. The ancients clearly perceived this, for they elaborated a doctrine called Naimittika [the correct Sanskrit term is Nitya] Pralaya, or the continual change in materia= l things, the continual destruction. This is known now to science in the doctrine that the body undergoes a complete alteration and renovation every seven years. At the end of the first seven years it is not the same body it was in the beginning. At the end of our days it has changed seven times, perhaps more. And yet it presents the same general appearance from maturity until death; and it is a human form from birth to maturity. This is a mystery science explains not; it is a question pertaining to the cell and t= o the means whereby the general human shape is preserved.=20 THE "CELL" AND ITS MOLECULAR COMPONENTS . The "cell" is an illusion. It is merely a word. It has no existence as a material thing, for any cell is composed of other cells. What, then, is a cell? It is the ideal form within which the actual physical atoms -- made u= p of the "lives" -- arrange themselves. As it is admitted that the physical molecules are forever rushing away from the body, they must be leaving the cells each moment. Hence there is no physical cell, but the privative limit= s of one, the ideal walls and general shape.=20 OUR "IDEAL" SHAPE IS SET BY OUR ASTRAL BODY The molecules assume position within the ideal shape according to the laws of nature, and leave it again almost at once to give place to other atoms. And as it is thus with the body, so is it with the earth and with the solar system. Thus also is it, though in slower measure, with all material objects. They are all in constant motion and change. This is modern and als= o ancient wisdom. This is the physical explanation of clairvoyance, clairaudience, telepathy, and mind-reading. It helps to show us what a deluding and unsatisfactory thing our body is.=20 THE "LIFE-FORCE" -- PRANA (BREATH). Although, strictly speaking, the second constituent of man is the Astral Body -- called in Sanskrit Linga Sarira -- we will consider Life Energy -- or Prana and Jiva in Sanskrit -- together, because to our observation the phenomenon of life is more plainly exhibited in connection with the body.=20 Life is not the result of the operation of the organs, nor is it gone when the body dissolves. It is a universally pervasive principle. It is the ocea= n in which the earth floats; it permeates the globe and every being and objec= t on it. It works unceasingly on and around us, pulsating against and through us forever.=20 When we occupy a body we merely use a more specialized instrument than any other for dealing with both Prana and Jiva. Strictly speaking, Prana is breath; and as breath is necessary for continuance of life in the human machine, that is the better word. Jiva means "life," and also is applied to the living soul, for the life in general is derived from the Supreme Life itself. Jiva is therefore capable of general application, whereas Prana is more particular.=20 It cannot be said that one has a definite amount of this Life Energy which will fly back to its source should the body be burned, but rather that it works with whatever be the mass of matter in it. We, as it were, secrete or use it as we live. For whether we are alive or dead, life-energy is still there; in life among our organs sustaining them, in death among the innumerable creatures that arise from our destruction.=20 We can no more do away with this life than we can erase the air in which th= e bird floats, and like the air it fills all the spaces on the planet, so tha= t nowhere can we lose the benefit of it nor escape its final crushing power. But in working upon the physical body this life -- Prana -- needs a vehicle= , means, or guide, and this vehicle is the astral body.=20 THE "ASTRAL BODY" HAS MANY NAMES: "Linga Sarira" the "Design Body," "Model Body." There are many names for the Astral Body. Here are a few: Linga Sarira, Sanskrit, meaning design body, and the best one of all; ethereal double; phantom; wraith; apparition; doppelganger; personal man; perisprit; irrational soul; animal soul; Bhuta; elementary; spook; devil; demon. Some of these apply only to the astral body when devoid of the corpus after death. Bhuta, devil, and elementary are nearly synonymous; the first Sanskrit, the other English. With the Hindus the Bhuta is the Astral Body when it is by death released from the body and the mind; and being thus separated from conscience, is a devil in their estimation. They are not far wrong, if we abolish the old notion that a devil is an angel fallen from heaven, for this bodily devil is something which rises from the earth.=20 It may be objected that the term Astral Body is not the right one for this purpose. The objection is one which arises from the nature and genesis of the English language, for as that has grown up in a struggle with nature an= d among a commercial people it has not as yet coined the words needed for designating the great range of faculties and organs of the unseen man. And as its philosophers have not admitted the existence of these inner organs, the right terms do not exist in the language.=20 So in looking for words to describe the inner body the only ones found in English were the "astral body." This term comes near to the real fact, sinc= e the substance of this form is derived from cosmic matter or star matter, roughly speaking. But the old Sanskrit word describes it exactly -- Linga Sarira, the design body -- because it is the design or model for the physical body. This is better than "ethereal body," as the latter might be said to be subsequent to the physical, whereas in fact the astral body precedes the material one.=20 ASTRAL SUBSTANCE IS A FINER MATERIAL AND VERY STRONG The astral body is made of matter of very fine texture as compared with the visible body, and has a great tensile strength, so that it changes but little during a lifetime, while the physical alters every moment. And not only has it this immense strength, but at the same time possesses an elasticity permitting its extension to a considerable distance. It is flexible, plastic, extensible, and strong.=20 The matter of which it is composed is electrical and magnetic in its essence, and is just what the whole world was composed of in the dim past when the processes of evolution had not yet arrived at the point of producing the material body for man. But it is not raw or crude matter. Having been through a vast period of evolution and undergone purifying processes of an incalculable number, its nature has been refined to a degre= e far beyond the gross physical elements we see and touch with the physical eye and hand.=20 THE ASTRAL MODEL IS THE PROTOTYPE OF THE PHYSICAL . The astral body is the guiding model for the physical one, and all the othe= r kingdoms have the same astral model. Vegetables, minerals, and animals have the ethereal double, and this theory is the only one which will answer the question how it is that the seed produces its own kind and all sentient beings bring forth their like. Biologists can only say that the facts are a= s we know them, but can give no reason why the acorn will never grow anything but an oak except that no man ever knew it to be otherwise. But in the old schools of the past the true doctrine was known, and it has been once again brought out in the West through the efforts of H. P. Blavatsky and those wh= o have found inspiration in her works.=20 ASTRAL SUBSTANCE AND THE EVOLUTION OF THE EARTH This doctrine is, that in early times of the evolution of this globe the various kingdoms of nature are outlined in plan or ideal form first, and then the astral matter begins to work on this plan with the aid of the Life principle, until after long ages the astral human form is evolved and perfected. This is, then, the first form that the human race had, and corresponds in a way with the allegory of man's state in the garden of Eden= . After another long period, during which the cycle of further descent into matter is rolling forward, the astral form at last clothes itself with a "coat of skin," and the present physical form is on the scene. This is the explanation of the verse of the book of Genesis which describes the giving of coats of skin to Adam and Eve. It is the final fall into matter, for fro= m that point on the man within strives to raise the whole mass of physical substance up to a higher level, and to inform it all with a larger measure of spiritual influence, so that it may be ready to go still further on during the next great period of evolution after the present one is ended.=20 "MODEL OF THE CHILD" IS FIRST IN ASTRAL SUBSTANCE . So at the present time the model for the growing child in the womb is the astral body already perfect in shape before the child is born. It is on thi= s the molecules arrange themselves until the child is complete, and the presence of the ethereal design-body will explain how the form grows into shape, how the eyes push themselves out from within to the surface of the face, and many other mysterious matters in embryology which are passed over by medical men with a description but with no explanation. This will also explain, as nothing else can, the cases of marking of the child in the womb sometimes denied by physicians but well-known by those who care to watch, t= o be a fact of frequent occurrence.=20 THE ASTRAL BODY SETS THE LIMITS OF GROWTH FOR THE PHYSICAL The growing physical form is subject to the astral model; it is connected with the imagination of the mother by physical and psychical organs; the mother makes a strong picture from horror, fear, or otherwise, and the astral model is then similarly affected. In the case of marking by being born legless, the ideas and strong imagination of the mother act so as to cut off or shrivel up the astral leg, and the result is that the molecules, having no model of leg to work on, make no physical leg whatever; and similarly in all such cases. But where we find a man who still feels the le= g which the surgeon has cut off, or perceives the fingers that were amputated= , then the astral member has not been interfered with, and hence the man feel= s as if it were still on his person. For knife or acid will not injure the astral model, but in the first stages of its growth ideas and imagination have the power of acid and sharpened steel.=20 CAN THE "ASTRAL BODY" MOVE OUT OF THE "PHYSICAL BODY ?" In the ordinary man who has not been trained in practical occultism or who has not the faculty by birth, the astral body cannot go more than a few fee= t from the physical one. It is a part of that physical, it sustains it and is incorporated in it just as the fibers of the mango are all through that fruit. But there are those who, by reason of practices pursued in former lives on the earth, have a power born with them of unconsciously sending ou= t the astral body. These are mediums, some seers, and many hysterical, cataleptic, and scrofulous people.=20 Those who have trained themselves by a long course of excessively hard discipline which reaches to the moral and mental nature and quite beyond th= e power of the average man of the day, can use the astral form at will, for they have gotten completely over the delusion that the physical body is a permanent part of them, and, besides, they have learned the chemical and electrical laws governing in this matter. In their case they act with knowledge and consciously; in the other cases the act is done without power to prevent it, or to bring it about at will, or to avoid the risks attendan= t on such use of potencies in nature of a high character.=20 THE ASTRAL BODY CONTAINS THE REAL SENSES OF PERCEPTION The astral body has in it the real organs of the outer sense organs. In it are the sight, hearing, power to smell, and the sense of touch. It has a complete system of nerves and arteries of its own for the conveyance of the astral fluid which is to that body as our blood is to the physical. It is the real personal man. There are located the subconscious perception and th= e latent memory, which the hypnotizers of the day are dealing with and being baffled by.=20 "ASTRAL FORM" IS RELEASED AT DEATH FROM THE "PHYSICAL" So when the body dies the astral man is released, and as at death the immortal man -- the Triad -- flies away to another state, the astral become= s a shell of the once living man and requires time to dissipate. It retains all the memories of the life lived by the man, and thus reflexly and automatically can repeat what the dead man knew, said, thought, and saw. It remains near the deserted physical body nearly all the time until that is completely dissipated, for it has to go through its own process of dying.=20 It may become visible under certain conditions. It is the spook of the spiritualistic seance-rooms, and is there made to masquerade as the real spirit of this or that individual. Attracted by the thoughts of the medium and the sitters, it vaguely flutters where they are, and then is galvanized into a factitious life by a whole host of elemental forces and by the activ= e astral body of the medium who is holding the seance or of any other medium in the audience. From it (as from a photograph) are then reflected into the medium's brain all the boasted evidences which spiritualists claim go to prove identity of deceased friend or relative. These evidences are accepted as proof that the spirit of the deceased is present, because neither medium= s nor sitters are acquainted with the laws governing their own nature, nor with the constitution, power, and function of astral matter and astral man.= =20 The Theosophical philosophy does not deny the facts proven in spiritualisti= c seances, but it gives an explanation of them wholly opposed to that of the spiritualists. And surely the utter absence of any logical scientific explanation by these so-called spirits of the phenomena they are said to produce supports the contention that they have no knowledge to impart. They can merely cause certain phenomena; the examination of those and deductions therefrom can only be properly carried on by a trained brain guided by a living trinity of spirit, soul, and mind. And here another class of spiritualistic phenomena requires brief notice. That is the appearance of what is called a "materialized spirit."=20 THE "ASTRAL" FORMS THE "SPOOK" AFTER DEATH . Three explanations are offered:=20 First, that the astral body of the living medium detaches itself from its corpus and assumes the appearance of the so-called spirit; for one of the properties of the astral matter is capacity to reflect an image existing unseen in ether.=20 Second, the actual astral shell of the deceased -- wholly devoid of his or her spirit and conscience -- becomes visible and tangible when the conditio= n of air and ether is such as to so alter the vibration of the molecules of the astral shell that it may become visible. The phenomena of density and apparent weight are explained by other laws.=20 Third, an unseen mass of electrical and magnetic matter is collected, and upon it is reflected out of the astral light a picture of any desired perso= n either dead or living. This is taken to be the "spirit" of such persons, bu= t it is not, and has been justly called by H. P. Blavatsky a "psychological fraud," because it pretends to be what it is not. And, strange to say, this very explanation of materializations has been given by a "spirit" at a regular seance, but has never been accepted by the spiritualists just because it upsets their notion of the return of the spirits of deceased persons.=20 =09=09 PHOTOGRAPHIC PROJECTION OF MEMORIES OF LAST LIFE >From it (as from a photograph) are then reflected into the medium's brain all the boasted evidences which spiritualists claim go to prove identity of deceased friend or relative. These evidences are accepted as proof that the spirit of the deceased is present, because neither mediums nor sitters are acquainted with the laws governing their own nature, nor with the constitution, power, and function of astral matter and astral man.=20 The Theosophical philosophy does not deny the facts proven in spiritualisti= c seances, but it gives an explanation of them wholly opposed to that of the spiritualists. And surely the utter absence of any logical scientific explanation by these so-called spirits of the phenomena they are said to produce supports the contention that they have no knowledge to impart. They can merely cause certain phenomena; the examination of those and deductions therefrom can only be properly carried on by a trained brain guided by a living trinity of spirit, soul, and mind. And here another class of spiritualistic phenomena requires brief notice. That is the appearance of what is called a "materialized spirit."=20 THE "ASTRAL BODY" AND PSYCHIC PHENOMENA . Finally, the astral body will explain nearly all the strange psychical things happening in daily life and in dealings with genuine mediums; it shows what an apparition may be and the possibility of such being seen, and thus prevents the scientific doubter from violating good sense by asserting you did not see what you know you have seen; it removes superstition by showing the real nature of these phenomena, and destroys the unreasonable fear of the unknown which makes a man afraid to see a "ghost."=20 By it also we can explain the apportation of objects without physical contact, for the astral hand may be extruded and made to take hold of an object, drawing it in toward the body. When this is shown to be possible, then travelers will not be laughed at who tell of seeing the Hindu yogee make coffee cups fly through the air and distant objects approach apparentl= y of their own accord untouched by him or anyone else.=20 All the instances of clairvoyance and clairaudience are to be explained als= o by the astral body and astral light.=20 The astral -- which are the real -- organs do the seeing and the hearing, and as all material objects are constantly in motion among their own atoms the astral sight and hearing are not impeded, but work at a distance as great as the extension of the astral light or matter around and about the earth. Thus it was that the great seer Swedenborg saw houses burning in the city of Stockholm when he was at another city many miles off, and by the same means any clairvoyant of the day sees and hears at a distance. POSSIBILITY OF ASTRAL TRAVEL In the ordinary man who has not been trained in practical occultism or who has not the faculty by birth, the astral body cannot go more than a few fee= t from the physical one. It is a part of that physical, it sustains it and is incorporated in it just as the fibers of the mango are all through that fruit.=20 But there are those who, by reason of practices pursued in former lives on the earth, have a power born with them of unconsciously sending out the astral body. These are mediums, some seers, and many hysterical, cataleptic= , and scrofulous people. Those who have trained themselves by a long course o= f excessively hard discipline which reaches to the moral and mental nature an= d quite beyond the power of the average man of the day, can use the astral form at will, for they have gotten completely over the delusion that the physical body is a permanent part of them, and, besides, they have learned the chemical and electrical laws governing in this matter. In their case they act with knowledge and consciously; in the other cases the act is done without power to prevent it, or to bring it about at will, or to avoid the risks attendant on such use of potencies in nature of a high character.=20 =09 CLAIRVOYANCE AND CLAIRAUDIENCE All the instances of clairvoyance and clairaudience are to be explained als= o by the astral body and astral light. The astral -- which are the real -- organs do the seeing and the hearing, and as all material objects are constantly in motion among their own atoms the astral sight and hearing are not impeded, but work at a distance as great as the extension of the astral light or matter around and about the earth. Thus it was that the great seer Swedenborg saw houses burning in the city of Stockholm when he was at another city many miles off, and by the same means any clairvoyant of the day sees and hears at a distance. DESIRE-NATURE AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH - KAMARUPA At death [Kama] informs the astral body, which then becomes a mere shell; for when a man dies his astral body and principle of passion and desire leave the physical in company and coalesce. It is then that the term Kamarupa may be applied, as Kamarupa is really made of astral body [Rupa], and Kama in conjunction.=20 This joining of the two makes a shape or form which though ordinarily invisible is material and may be brought into visibility. Although it is empty of mind and conscience, it has powers of its own that can be exercise= d whenever the conditions permit. These conditions are furnished by the mediu= m of the spiritualists, and in every seance room the astral shells of decease= d persons are always present to delude the sitters, whose powers of discrimination have been destroyed by wonderment.=20 It is the "devil" [Bhut] of the Hindus, and a worse enemy the poor medium could not have. For the astral spook -- or Kamarupa -- is but the mass of the desires and passions abandoned by the real person who has fled to "heaven" [Devachan] and has no concern with the people left behind, least o= f all with seances and mediums. Hence, being devoid of the nobler soul, these desires and passions work only on the very lowest part of the medium's nature and stir up.always the lower leanings of the being. Therefore it is that even the spiritualists themselves admit that in the ranks of the mediums there is much fraud, and mediums have often confessed, "the spirits did tempt me and I committed fraud at their wish."=20 DANGER OF EXECUTIONS AND SUICIDE This Kamarupa spook is also the enemy of our civilization, which permits us to execute men for crimes committed and thus throw out into the ether the mass of passion and desire free from the weight of the body and liable at any moment to be attracted to any sensitive person. Being thus attracted, the deplorable images of crimes committed and also the picture of the execution and all the accompanying curses and wishes for revenge are implanted in living persons, who, not seeing the evil, are unable to throw it off. Thus crimes and new ideas of crimes are wilfully propagated every day by those countries where capital punishment prevails.=20 =09 KAMA -- PASSION AND DESIRE ARE NOT THE MIND Passion and desire, together with astral model-body, are common to men and animals, as also to the vegetable kingdom, though in the last but faintly developed. And at one period in evolution no further material principles ha= d been developed, and all the three higher, of Mind, Soul, and Spirit, were but latent. Up to this point man and animal were equal, for the brute in us is made of the passions and the astral body.=20 The development of the germs of Mind made man. because it constituted the great differentiation.=20 The God within begins with Manas or mind, and it is the struggle between this God and the brute below which Theosophy speaks of and warns about. The lower principle is called bad because by comparison with the higher it is so, but still it is the basis of action. We cannot rise unless self first asserts itself in the "desire to do better."=20 In this aspect [in the philosophy of the "Bhagavad Gita"] it is called raja= s or the active and bad quality, as distinguished from tamas, or the quality of darkness and indifference. Rising is not possible unless rajas is presen= t to give the impulse, and by the use of this principle of passion all the higher qualities are brought to at last so refine and elevate our desires that they may be continually placed upon truth and spirit [sattva].=20 By this Theosophy does not teach that the passions are to be pandered to or satiated, for a more pernicious doctrine was never taught, but the injunction is to make use of the activity given by the fourth principle so as to ever rise and not to fall under the dominion of the dark quality that ends with annihilation, after having begun in selfishness and indifference.= =20 But believing in his teacher, the theosophist sees all around him the evidence that the race mind is changing by enlargement, that the old days o= f dogmatism are gone and the "age of inquiry" has come, that the inquiries will grow louder year by year, and the answers be required to satisfy the mind as it grows more and more. Until at last, all dogmatism being ended, the race will be ready to face all problems, each man for himself, all working for the good of the whole, and that the end will be the perfecting of those who struggle to overcome the brute. For these reasons the old doctrines are given out again, and Theosophy asks every one to reflect whether to give way to the animal below or look up to and be governed by th= e God within.=20 _______________________________ These statements are culled from The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY - by W Q Judge Note: In the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY Mr. Judge reserves the last 2 chapters ( 1= 6 and 17) to a discussion of what Theosophy has to offer on psychical phenomena and the place that the astral plays in all extraordinary events.= =20 [Available as a book to be read "on-Line" at various Web-Sites.=20=20 BLAVATSKY NET http://www.blavatsky.net=20=20=20 makes this available to those interested. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva=20 Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:17 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: The Hierarchy of Evil ? AFTER-DEATH STATES CONSCIOUSNESS Thanks Dallas.=20=20 "and they draw those who are thoughtlessly willing to do evil to them" =20 Are you saying that "they" impress the astral and lower mental body "of those who are thoughtlessly willing to do evil to them, through thought? S= o that "they" send out or emit evil or selfish ideas, and if there is something in the receiver that resonates with those ideas, "the thoughtlessly willing" act upon it? =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Apr 01 05:21:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87039 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 13:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 13:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 13:21:57 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys Info At http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NuMXp1B2LisKUIAn+5lEThaAx5xbyI3XYami1Zvmdtd22liwqwzRsXUj+RMVIaX6; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Importance:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.179.140.154] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DHM5o-0003Gt-LF; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:21:52 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:21:31 -0800 Message-ID: <000601c536bd$c06f0fb0$9a8cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7963849db77aaa7ce93525b1774234a86c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: HPB Mahatmas THEOSOPHY SOURCE OF THEOSOPHY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 April 1 2005 Dear Friends: Last few weeks have shown increased interest in the following concepts and ideas:=20=20 Antiquity of THEOSOPHY,=20=20 Mystery Schools,=20 Where are the MAHATMAS now?=20=20 Where is HPB ?=20 Who guides the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT ? What can we do? Some notes below were found helpful=20 On MYSTERY SCHOOLS Where are they?=20=20 Apparently: all over the world. =20 THE MAHATMAS AS IDEALS AND FACTS A visitor from one of the other planets of the solar system who might learn the term Mahatma after arriving here would certainly suppose that the etymology of the word undoubtedly inspired the believers in Mahatmas with the devotion, fearlessness, hope, and energy which such an ideal should arouse in those who have the welfare of the human race at heart.=20 Such a supposition would be correct in respect to some, but the heavenly visitor after examining all the members of the Theosophical Society could not fail to meet disappointment when the fact was clear to him that many of the believers were afraid of their own ideals, hesitated to proclaim them, were slothful in finding arguments to give reasons for their hope, and all because the wicked and scoffing materialistic world might laugh at such a belief. The whole sweep, meaning, and possibility of evolution are contained in the word Mahatma. Maha is "great," Atma is "soul," and both compounded into one mean those great souls who have triumphed before us not because they are made of different stuff and are of some strange family, but just because they are of the human race.=20 Reincarnation, karma, the sevenfold division, retribution, reward, struggle= , failure, success, illumination, power, and a vast embracing love for man, all these lie in that single word.=20 The soul emerges from the unknown, begins to work in and with matter, is reborn again and again, makes karma, developes the six vehicles for itself, meets retribution for sin and punishment for mistake, grows strong by suffering, succeeds in bursting through the gloom, is enlightened by the true illumination, grasps power, retains charity, expands with love for orphaned humanity, and thenceforth helps all others who remain in darkness until all may be raised up to the place with the "Father in Heaven" who is the Higher Self.=20 This would be the argument of the visitor from the distant planet, and he i= n it would describe a great ideal for all members of a Society such as ours which had its first impulse from some of these very Mahatmas. Without going into any argument further than to say that evolution demands that such beings should exist or there is a gap in the chain -- and this position is even held by a man of science like Professor Huxley, who in his latest essays puts it in almost as definite language as mine -- this articl= e is meant for those who believe in the existence of the Mahatmas, whether that faith has arisen of itself or is the result of argument. It is meant also for all classes of the believers, for they are of several varieties.=20 Some believe without wavering; others believe unwaveringly but are afraid t= o tell of their belief; a few believe, yet are always thinking that they must be able to say they have set eyes on an Adept before they can infuse their belief into others; and a certain number deliberately hide the belief as a sort of individual possession which separates them from the profane mortals who have never heard of the Adepts or who having heard scoff at the notion. To all these I wish to speak. Those unfortunate persons who are ever trying to measure exalted men and sages by the conventional rules of a transition civilization, or who are seemingly afraid of a vast possibility for man and therefore deny, may be well left to themselves and to time, for it is more than likely they will fall into the general belief when it is formed, as it surely will be in the course of no long time.=20 For a belief in Mahatmas -- whatever name you give the idea -- is a common property of the whole race, and all the efforts of all the men of empirical science and dogmatic religion can never kill out the soul's own memory of its past. We should declare our belief in the Adepts, while at the same time we deman= d no one's adherence. It is not necessary to give the names of any of the Adepts, for a name is an invention of a family, and but few persons ever think of themselves by name but by the phrase 'I am myself.' To name these beings, then, is no proof, and to seek for mystery names is to invite condemnation for profanation. The ideal without the name is large and grand enough for all purposes. Some years ago the Adepts wrote and said to H.P.B. and to several persons that more help could be given to the movement in America because the fact o= f their existence was not concealed from motives of either fear or doubt.=20 This statement of course carries with it by contradistinction the conclusio= n that where, from fear of schools of science or of religion, the members had not referred much to the belief in Mahatmas, the power to help was for some reason inhibited. This is the interesting point, and brings up the question "Can the power to help of the Mahatmas be for any cause inhibited?" The answer is, It can. But why? All effects on every plane are the result of forces set in motion, and cannot be the result of nothing, but must ever flow from causes in which they are wrapped up. If the channel through which water is meant to flow is stopped up, the water will not run there, but if a clear channel is provide= d the current will pass forward.=20 Occult help from Masters requires a channel just as much as any other help does, and the fact that the currents to be used are occult makes the need for a channel greater. The persons to be acted on must take part in making the channel or line for the force to act, for if we will not have it they cannot give it. Now as we are dealing with the mind and nature of man, we have to throw out the words which will arouse the ideas connected with the forces we desire to have employed. In this case the words are those which bring up the doctrine of the existence of Adepts, Mahatmas, Masters of wisdom.=20 Hence the value of the declaration of our belief. It arouses dormant ideas in others, it opens up a channel in the mind, it serves to make the conducting lines for the forces to use which the Mahatmas wish to give out.= =20 Many a young man who could never hope to see great modern professors of science like Huxley and Tyndall and Darwin has been excited to action, move= d to self-help, impelled to seek for knowledge, by having heard that such men actually exist and are human beings. Without stopping to ask if the proof o= f their living in Europe is complete, men have sought to follow their example= . Shall we not take advantage of the same law of the human mind and let the vast power of the Lodge work with our assistance and not against our opposition or doubt or fear? Those who are devoted know how they have had unseen help which showed itself in results. Those who fear may take courage= , for they will find that not all their fellow beings are devoid of an underlying belief in the possibilities outlined by the doctrine of the existence of the Adepts. And if we look over the work of the Society we find wherever the members boldly avow their belief and are not afraid to speak of this high ideal, th= e interest in theosophy is awake, the work goes on, the people are benefited. To the contrary, where there are constant doubt, ceaseless asking for material proof, incessant fear of what the world or science or friends will think, there the work is dead, the field is not cultivated, and the town or city receives no benefit from the efforts of those who while formally in a universal brotherhood are not living out the great ideal. Very wisely and as an occultist, Jesus said his followers must give up all and follow him. We must give up the desire to save ourselves and acquire th= e opposite one, -- the wish to save others. Let us remember the story in ancient writ of Arjuna, who, entering heaven and finding that his dog was not admitted and some of his friends in hell, refused to remain and said that while one creature was out of heaven he would not enter it. This is true devotion, and this joined to an intelligent declaration of belief in the great initiation of the human race will lead to results of magnitude, will call out the forces that are behind, will prevail against hell itself and all the minions of hell now striving to retard the progress of the huma= n soul. THE PATH, March 1893 (Eusebio Urban)=20=09 W. Q. JUDGE ----------------------------------------------- THE ANCIENT SOURCE of THEOSOPHY=20 =09 (1.) The Secret Doctrine is the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages, and its cosmogony alone is the most stupendous and elaborate system: e.g., even in the exotericism of the Puranas.=20 But such is the mysterious power of Occult symbolism, that the facts which have actually occupied countless generations of initiated seers and prophet= s to marshal, to set down and explain, in the bewildering series of evolutionary progress, are all recorded on a few pages of geometrical signs and glyphs.=20 The flashing gaze of those seers has penetrated into the very kernel of matter, and recorded the soul of things there, where an ordinary profane, however learned, would have perceived but the external work of form. But modern science believes not in the "soul of things," and hence will reject the whole system of ancient cosmogony. It is useless to say that the system in question is no fancy of one or several isolated individuals.=20 That it is the uninterrupted record covering thousands of generations of Seers whose respective experiences were made to test and to verify traditions passed orally by one early race to another, of the teachings of higher and exalted beings, who watched over the childhood of Humanity.=20 That for long ages, the "Wise Men" of the Fifth Race, of the stock saved an= d rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of continents, had passed thei= r lives in learning, not teaching. How did they do so? It is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying in every department of nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great adepts; i.e., men who have developed and perfected their physical, mental, psychic, and spiritual organisations to the utmost possible degree. No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by the visions-so obtained as to stand as independent evidence-of other adepts, and by centuries of experiences.=20 SECRET DOCTRINE 1-272 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [ Also Mahatma K. H. wrote to A.P. Sinnett: ". . . You have heard of and read about a good many Seers, in the=20 past and present centuries, such as Swedenborg, Boehme, and others.=20 Not one among the number but thoroughly honest, sincere, and as=20 intelligent, as well educated; aye, even learned. Each of them in=20 addition to these qualities, has or had . . . a 'Guardian' and a=20 Revelator -- under whatever 'mystery' and 'mystic name' -- whose=20 mission it is -- or has been to spin out to his spiritual ward -- a=20 new system embracing all the details of the world of Spirit. Tell me,=20 my friend, do you know of two that agree? And why, since truth is=20 one, and that putting entirely the question of discrepancies in=20 details aside -- we do not find them agreeing even upon the most=20 vital problems -- those that have either 'to be, or not to be' -- and=20 of which there can be no two solutions?"=20=20 K H The Mahatma Letters, 2nd ed., Letter 48 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LAW (2.) The fundamental Law in that system, the central point from which all emerged, around and toward which all gravitates, and upon which is hung the philosophy of the rest, is the One homogeneous divine SUBSTANCE-PRINCIPLE, the one radical cause.=20 . . . "Some few, whose lamps shone brighter, have been led=20 >From cause to cause to nature's secret head, And found that one first Principle must be. . . ."=20 It is called "Substance-Principle," for it becomes "substance" on the plane of the manifested Universe, an illusion, while it remains a "principle" in the beginningless and endless abstract, visible and invisible SPACE. It is the omnipresent Reality: impersonal, because it contains all and everything= . Its impersonality is the fundamental conception of the System. It is latent in every atom in the Universe, and is the Universe itself. (See in chapters on Symbolism, "Primordial Substance, and Divine Thought.")=20 CYCLIC MANIFESTATION (3.) The Universe is the periodical manifestation of this unknown Absolute Essence. To call it "essence," however, is to sin against the very spirit o= f the philosophy. For though the noun may be derived in this case from the verb esse, "to be," yet IT cannot be identified with a being of any kind, that can be conceived by human intellect. IT is best described as neither Spirit nor matter, but both. "Parabrahmam and Mulaprakriti" are One, in reality, yet two in the Universal conception of the manifested, even in the conception of the One Logos, its first manifestation, to which, as the able lecturer in the "Notes on the Bhagavad Gita" shows, IT appears from the objective standpoint of the One Logos as Mulaprakriti and not as Parabrahmam; as its veil and not the one REALITY hidden behind, which is unconditioned and absolute.=20 TEMPORARY - ILLUSION -- MAYA (4.) The Universe is called, with everything in it, MAYA, because all is temporary therein, from the ephemeral life of a fire-fly to that of the Sun= . Compared to the eternal immutability of the ONE, and the changelessness of that Principle, the Universe, with its evanescent ever-changing forms, must be necessarily, in the mind of a philosopher, no better than a will-o'-the-wisp. Yet, the Universe is real enough to the conscious beings in it, which are as unreal as it is itself.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS -- INTELLIGENCE IS UNIVERSAL (5.) Everything in the Universe, throughout all its kingdoms, is CONSCIOUS: i.e., endowed with a consciousness of its own kind and on its own plane of perception. We men must remember that because we do not perceive any signs-which we can recognise-of consciousness, say, in stones, we have no right to say that no consciousness exists there. There is no such thing as either "dead" or "blind" matter, as there is no "Blind" or "Unconscious" Law. These find no place among the conceptions of Occult philosophy. The latter never stops at surface appearances, and for it the noumenal essences have more reality than their objective counterparts; it resembles therein the mediaeval Nominalists, for whom it was the Universals that were the realities and the particulars which existed only in name and human fancy.=20 INNER "SPIRIT" IS ALWAYS ACTIVE (6.) The Universe is worked and guided from within outwards. As above so it is below, as in heaven so on earth; and man-the microcosm and miniature cop= y of the macrocosm-is the living witness to this Universal Law, and to the mode of its action. We see that every external motion, act, gesture, whethe= r voluntary or mechanical, organic or mental, is produced and preceded by internal feeling or emotion, will or volition, and thought or mind. As no outward motion or change, when normal, in man's external body can take plac= e unless provoked by an inward impulse, given through one of the three functions named, so with the external or manifested Universe.=20 DEGREES OF INTELLIGENCE AND POWER The whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform, and who-whether we give to them one name or another, and call them Dhyan-Chohans or Angels-are "messengers" in the sense only that they are th= e agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws.=20 They vary infinitely in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence; and to call them all pure Spirits without any of the earthly alloy "which time is wont to prey upon" is only to indulge in poetical fancy. For each of these Beings either was, or prepares to become, a man, i= f not in the present, then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara).=20 They are perfected, when not incipient, men; and differ morally from the terrestrial human beings on their higher (less material) spheres, only in that they are devoid of the feeling of personality and of the human emotional nature-two purely earthly characteristics.=20 The former, or the "perfected," have become free from those feelings, because (a) they have no longer fleshly bodies-an ever-numbing weight on th= e Soul; and (b) the pure spiritual element being left untrammelled and more free, they are less influenced by maya than man can ever be, unless he is a= n adept who keeps his two personalities-the spiritual and the physical-entirely separated.=20 The incipient monads, having never had terrestrial bodies yet, can have no sense of personality or EGO-ism. That which is meant by "personality," bein= g a limitation and a relation, or, as defined by Coleridge, "individuality existing in itself but with a nature as a ground," the term cannot of cours= e be applied to non-human entities; but, as a fact insisted upon by generations of Seers, none of these Beings, high or low, have either individuality or personality as separate Entities, i.e., they have no individuality in the sense in which a man says, "I am myself and no one else;" in other words, they are conscious of no such distinct separateness as men and things have on earth.=20 Individuality is the characteristic of their respective hierarchies, not of their units; and these characteristics vary only with the degree of the plane to which those hierarchies belong: the nearer to the region of Homogeneity and the One Divine, the purer and the less accentuated that individuality in the Hierarchy.=20 They are finite, in all respects, with the exception of their higher principles-the immortal sparks reflecting the universal divine flame-individualized and separated only on the spheres of Illusion by a differentiation as illusive as the rest.=20 They are "Living Ones," because they are the streams projected on the Kosmi= c screen of illusion from the ABSOLUTE LIFE; beings in whom life cannot becom= e extinct, before the fire of ignorance is extinct in those who sense these "Lives."=20 Having sprung into being under the quickening influence of the uncreated beam, the reflection of the great Central Sun that radiates on the shores o= f the river of Life, it is the inner principle in them which belongs to the waters of immortality, while its differentiated clothing is as perishable a= s man's body. Therefore Young was right in saying that=20 "Angels are men of a superior kind"=20 and no more. They are neither "ministering" nor "protecting" angels; nor ar= e they "Harbingers of the Most High" still less the "Messengers of wrath" of any God such as man's fancy has created.=20 To appeal to their protection is as foolish as to believe that their sympathy may be secured by any kind of propitiation; for they are, as much as man himself is, the slaves and creatures of immutable Karmic and Kosmic law. The reason for it is evident. Having no elements of personality in their essence they can have no personal qualities, such as attributed by men, in their exoteric religions, to their anthropomorphic God-a jealous and exclusive God who rejoices and feels wrathful, is pleased with sacrifice, and is more despotic in his vanity than any finite foolish man.=20 MAN - HIS COMPOSITION AND POTENCY Man, as shown in Book II., being a compound of the essences of all those celestial Hierarchies may succeed in making himself, as such, superior, in one sense, to any hierarchy or class, or even combination of them. "Man can neither propitiate nor command the Devas," it is said.=20 MAN'S PROGRESS But, by paralyzing his lower personality, and arriving thereby at the full knowledge of the non-separateness of his higher SELF from the One absolute SELF, man can, even during his terrestrial life, become as "One of Us." Thu= s it is, by eating of the fruit of knowledge which dispels ignorance, that ma= n becomes like one of the Elohim or the Dhyanis; and once on their plane the Spirit of Solidarity and perfect Harmony, which reigns in every Hierarchy, must extend over him and protect him in every particular.=20 The chief difficulty which prevents men of science from believing in divine as well as in nature Spirits is their materialism. The main impediment before the Spiritualist which hinders him from believing in the same, while preserving a blind belief in the "Spirits" of the Departed, is the general ignorance of all, except some Occultists and Kabalists, about the true essence and nature of matter. It is on the acceptance or rejection of the theory of the Unity of all in Nature, in its ultimate Essence, that mainly rests the belief or unbelief in the existence around us of other conscious beings besides the Spirits of the Dead.=20 EVOLUTION IS UNIVERSAL It is on the right comprehension of the primeval Evolution of Spirit-Matter and its real essence that the student has to depend for the further elucidation in his mind of the Occult Cosmogony, and for the only sure clue which can guide his subsequent studies.=20 In sober truth, as just shown, every "Spirit" so-called is either a disembodied or a future man. As from the highest Archangel (Dhyan Chohan) down to the last conscious "Builder" (the inferior class of Spiritual Entities), all such are men, having lived aeons ago, in other Manvantaras, on this or other Spheres; so the inferior, semi-intelligent and non-intelligent Elementals-are all future men. That fact alone-that a Spiri= t is endowed with intelligence-is a proof to the Occultist that that Being must have been a man, and acquired his knowledge and intelligence throughou= t the human cycle.=20 UNITY - ONENESS There is but one indivisible and absolute Omniscience and Intelligence in the Universe, and this thrills throughout every atom and infinitesimal poin= t of the whole finite Kosmos which hath no bounds, and which people call SPACE, considered independently of anything contained in it. But the first differentiation of its reflection in the manifested World is purely Spiritual, and the Beings generated in it are not endowed with a consciousness that has any relation to the one we conceive of. They can hav= e no human consciousness or Intelligence before they have acquired such, personally and individually. This may be a mystery, yet it is a fact, in Esoteric philosophy, and a very apparent one too.=20 PROGRESS IS UNIVERSAL IN NATURE The whole order of nature evinces a progressive march towards a higher life= . There is design in the action of the seemingly blindest forces. The whole process of evolution with its endless adaptations is a proof of this. The immutable laws that weed out the weak and feeble species, to make room for the strong, and which ensure the "survival of the fittest," though so cruel in their immediate action-all are working toward the grand end. The very fact that adaptations do occur, that the fittest do survive in the struggle for existence, shows that what is called "unconscious Nature"* is in realit= y an aggregate of forces manipulated=20 * Nature taken in its abstract sense, cannot be "unconscious," as it is the emanation from, and thus an aspect (on the manifested plane) of the ABSOLUT= E consciousness. Where is that daring man who would presume to deny to vegetation and even to minerals a consciousness of their own. All he can sa= y is, that this consciousness is beyond his comprehension.=20 ----------------------------------------------------------- by semi-intelligent beings (Elementals) guided by High Planetary Spirits, (Dhyan Chohans), whose collective aggregate forms the manifested verbum of the unmanifested LOGOS, and constitutes at one and the same time the MIND o= f the Universe and its immutable LAW.=20 PAST -- PRESENT -- FUTURE Three distinct representations of the Universe in its three distinct aspect= s are impressed upon our thought by the esoteric philosophy: the PRE-EXISTING (evolved from) the EVER-EXISTING; and the PHENOMENAL-the world of illusion, the reflection, and shadow thereof. During the great mystery and drama of life known as the Manvantara, real Kosmos is like the object placed behind the white screen upon which are thrown the Chinese shadows, called forth by the magic lantern. The actual figures and things remain invisible, while th= e wires of evolution are pulled by the unseen hands; and men and things are thus but the reflections, on the white field, of the realities behind the snares of Mahamaya, or the great Illusion. This was taught in every philosophy, in every religion, ante as well as post diluvian, in India and Chaldea, by the Chinese as by the Grecian Sages. In the former countries these three Universes were allegorized, in exoteric teachings, by the three trinities emanating from the Central eternal germ and forming with it a Supreme Unity: the initial, the manifested, and the Creative Triad, or the three in One. The last is but the symbol, in its concrete expression, of th= e first ideal two. Hence Esoteric philosophy passes over the necessarianism o= f this purely metaphysical conception, and calls the first one, only, the Eve= r Existing. This is the view of every one of the six great schools of Indian philosophy-the six principles of that unit body of WISDOM of which the "gnosis," the hidden knowledge, is the seventh.=20 S D I 272-278 ------------------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =20 From krishtar_a@brturbo.com.br Fri Apr 01 05:51:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26344 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 13:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 13:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.brturbo.com.br) (200.199.201.158) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 13:51:36 -0000 Received: from versus (unknown [200.193.111.148]) by smtp2.brturbo.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 3353235E4; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:51:13 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <009a01c536c1$f80fcbe0$0301010a@versus> To: , "AA-BNStudy" References: <000601c536bd$c06f0fb0$9a8cb3d1@DALLAS> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:33:03 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: 200.199.201.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "krishtar" Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB Mahatmas THEOSOPHY SOURCE OF THEOSOPHY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=213301758 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dallas Are you fine? I do hope so. Very useful these Q and Answers, gonna keep for further references. What is nowadays the best SD edition for a student to begin? The Theosophy Company=B4s faccimile edition is the best I gess because the = "corrections" made later - the portuguese edition is based on AB=B4s (in)c= orrections - are really doubtful. The " energy" of a facsimile edition is quite different, maybe psychologica= l, but sensible... Have a good day. Krishtar PS As I have read rapidly in another e-mail, is the Theosophy Company an i= nterprise from ULT? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: W.Dallas TenBroeck=20 To: AA-BNStudy=20 Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: Theos-World HPB Mahatmas THEOSOPHY SOURCE OF THEOSOPHY April 1 2005 Dear Friends: Last few weeks have shown increased interest in the following concepts an= d ideas:=20=20 Antiquity of THEOSOPHY,=20=20 Mystery Schools,=20 Where are the MAHATMAS now?=20=20 Where is HPB ?=20 Who guides the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT ? What can we do? Some notes below were found helpful=20 On MYSTERY SCHOOLS Where are they?=20=20 Apparently: all over the world. =20=20=20 THE MAHATMAS AS IDEALS AND FACTS A visitor from one of the other planets of the solar system who might lea= rn the term Mahatma after arriving here would certainly suppose that the etymology of the word undoubtedly inspired the believers in Mahatmas with the devotion, fearlessness, hope, and energy which such an ideal should arouse in those who have the welfare of the human race at heart.=20 Such a supposition would be correct in respect to some, but the heavenly visitor after examining all the members of the Theosophical Society could not fail to meet disappointment when the fact was clear to him that many = of the believers were afraid of their own ideals, hesitated to proclaim them= , were slothful in finding arguments to give reasons for their hope, and al= l because the wicked and scoffing materialistic world might laugh at such a belief. The whole sweep, meaning, and possibility of evolution are contained in t= he word Mahatma. Maha is "great," Atma is "soul," and both compounded into o= ne mean those great souls who have triumphed before us not because they are made of different stuff and are of some strange family, but just because they are of the human race.=20 Reincarnation, karma, the sevenfold division, retribution, reward, strugg= le, failure, success, illumination, power, and a vast embracing love for man, all these lie in that single word.=20 The soul emerges from the unknown, begins to work in and with matter, is reborn again and again, makes karma, developes the six vehicles for itsel= f, meets retribution for sin and punishment for mistake, grows strong by suffering, succeeds in bursting through the gloom, is enlightened by the true illumination, grasps power, retains charity, expands with love for orphaned humanity, and thenceforth helps all others who remain in darknes= s until all may be raised up to the place with the "Father in Heaven" who i= s the Higher Self.=20 This would be the argument of the visitor from the distant planet, and he= in it would describe a great ideal for all members of a Society such as ours which had its first impulse from some of these very Mahatmas. Without going into any argument further than to say that evolution demand= s that such beings should exist or there is a gap in the chain -- and this position is even held by a man of science like Professor Huxley, who in h= is latest essays puts it in almost as definite language as mine -- this arti= cle is meant for those who believe in the existence of the Mahatmas, whether that faith has arisen of itself or is the result of argument. It is meant also for all classes of the believers, for they are of several varieties.= =20 Some believe without wavering; others believe unwaveringly but are afraid= to tell of their belief; a few believe, yet are always thinking that they mu= st be able to say they have set eyes on an Adept before they can infuse thei= r belief into others; and a certain number deliberately hide the belief as = a sort of individual possession which separates them from the profane morta= ls who have never heard of the Adepts or who having heard scoff at the notio= n. To all these I wish to speak. Those unfortunate persons who are ever trying to measure exalted men and sages by the conventional rules of a transition civilization, or who are seemingly afraid of a vast possibility for man and therefore deny, may be well left to themselves and to time, for it is more than likely they will fall into the general belief when it is formed, as it surely will be in t= he course of no long time.=20 For a belief in Mahatmas -- whatever name you give the idea -- is a commo= n property of the whole race, and all the efforts of all the men of empiric= al science and dogmatic religion can never kill out the soul's own memory of its past. We should declare our belief in the Adepts, while at the same time we dem= and no one's adherence. It is not necessary to give the names of any of the Adepts, for a name is an invention of a family, and but few persons ever think of themselves by name but by the phrase 'I am myself.' To name thes= e beings, then, is no proof, and to seek for mystery names is to invite condemnation for profanation. The ideal without the name is large and gra= nd enough for all purposes. Some years ago the Adepts wrote and said to H.P.B. and to several persons that more help could be given to the movement in America because the fact= of their existence was not concealed from motives of either fear or doubt.=20 This statement of course carries with it by contradistinction the conclus= ion that where, from fear of schools of science or of religion, the members h= ad not referred much to the belief in Mahatmas, the power to help was for so= me reason inhibited. This is the interesting point, and brings up the questi= on "Can the power to help of the Mahatmas be for any cause inhibited?" The answer is, It can. But why? All effects on every plane are the result of forces set in motion, and cannot be the result of nothing, but must ever flow from causes in which they are wrapped up. If the channel through which water is meant to flow = is stopped up, the water will not run there, but if a clear channel is provi= ded the current will pass forward.=20 Occult help from Masters requires a channel just as much as any other hel= p does, and the fact that the currents to be used are occult makes the need for a channel greater. The persons to be acted on must take part in makin= g the channel or line for the force to act, for if we will not have it they cannot give it. Now as we are dealing with the mind and nature of man, we have to throw out the words which will arouse the ideas connected with th= e forces we desire to have employed. In this case the words are those which bring up the doctrine of the existence of Adepts, Mahatmas, Masters of wisdom.=20 Hence the value of the declaration of our belief. It arouses dormant idea= s in others, it opens up a channel in the mind, it serves to make the conducting lines for the forces to use which the Mahatmas wish to give ou= t.=20 Many a young man who could never hope to see great modern professors of science like Huxley and Tyndall and Darwin has been excited to action, mo= ved to self-help, impelled to seek for knowledge, by having heard that such m= en actually exist and are human beings. Without stopping to ask if the proof= of their living in Europe is complete, men have sought to follow their examp= le. Shall we not take advantage of the same law of the human mind and let the vast power of the Lodge work with our assistance and not against our opposition or doubt or fear? Those who are devoted know how they have had unseen help which showed itself in results. Those who fear may take coura= ge, for they will find that not all their fellow beings are devoid of an underlying belief in the possibilities outlined by the doctrine of the existence of the Adepts. And if we look over the work of the Society we find wherever the members boldly avow their belief and are not afraid to speak of this high ideal, = the interest in theosophy is awake, the work goes on, the people are benefite= d. To the contrary, where there are constant doubt, ceaseless asking for material proof, incessant fear of what the world or science or friends wi= ll think, there the work is dead, the field is not cultivated, and the town = or city receives no benefit from the efforts of those who while formally in = a universal brotherhood are not living out the great ideal. Very wisely and as an occultist, Jesus said his followers must give up al= l and follow him. We must give up the desire to save ourselves and acquire = the opposite one, -- the wish to save others. Let us remember the story in ancient writ of Arjuna, who, entering heaven and finding that his dog was not admitted and some of his friends in hell, refused to remain and said that while one creature was out of heaven he would not enter it. This is true devotion, and this joined to an intelligent declaration of belief in the great initiation of the human race will lead to results of magnitude, will call out the forces that are behind, will prevail against hell itsel= f and all the minions of hell now striving to retard the progress of the hu= man soul. THE PATH, March 1893 (Eusebio Urban)=20 W. Q. JUDGE ----------------------------------------------- THE ANCIENT SOURCE of THEOSOPHY=20 (1.) The Secret Doctrine is the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages, and its cosmogony alone is the most stupendous and elaborate system: e.g., even i= n the exotericism of the Puranas.=20 But such is the mysterious power of Occult symbolism, that the facts whic= h have actually occupied countless generations of initiated seers and proph= ets to marshal, to set down and explain, in the bewildering series of evolutionary progress, are all recorded on a few pages of geometrical sig= ns and glyphs.=20 The flashing gaze of those seers has penetrated into the very kernel of matter, and recorded the soul of things there, where an ordinary profane, however learned, would have perceived but the external work of form. But modern science believes not in the "soul of things," and hence will rejec= t the whole system of ancient cosmogony. It is useless to say that the syst= em in question is no fancy of one or several isolated individuals.=20 That it is the uninterrupted record covering thousands of generations of Seers whose respective experiences were made to test and to verify traditions passed orally by one early race to another, of the teachings o= f higher and exalted beings, who watched over the childhood of Humanity.=20 That for long ages, the "Wise Men" of the Fifth Race, of the stock saved = and rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of continents, had passed th= eir lives in learning, not teaching. How did they do so? It is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying in every department of nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great adepts; i.e., men w= ho have developed and perfected their physical, mental, psychic, and spiritu= al organisations to the utmost possible degree. No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by the visions-so obtained as = to stand as independent evidence-of other adepts, and by centuries of experiences.=20 SECRET DOCTRINE 1-272 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [ Also Mahatma K. H. wrote to A.P. Sinnett: ". . . You have heard of and read about a good many Seers, in the=20 past and present centuries, such as Swedenborg, Boehme, and others.=20 Not one among the number but thoroughly honest, sincere, and as=20 intelligent, as well educated; aye, even learned. Each of them in=20 addition to these qualities, has or had . . . a 'Guardian' and a=20 Revelator -- under whatever 'mystery' and 'mystic name' -- whose=20 mission it is -- or has been to spin out to his spiritual ward -- a=20 new system embracing all the details of the world of Spirit. Tell me,=20 my friend, do you know of two that agree? And why, since truth is=20 one, and that putting entirely the question of discrepancies in=20 details aside -- we do not find them agreeing even upon the most=20 vital problems -- those that have either 'to be, or not to be' -- and=20 of which there can be no two solutions?"=20=20 K H The Mahatma Letters, 2nd ed., Letter 48 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LAW (2.) The fundamental Law in that system, the central point from which all emerged, around and toward which all gravitates, and upon which is hung t= he philosophy of the rest, is the One homogeneous divine SUBSTANCE-PRINCIPLE= , the one radical cause.=20 . . . "Some few, whose lamps shone brighter, have been led=20 >From cause to cause to nature's secret head, And found that one first Principle must be. . . ."=20 It is called "Substance-Principle," for it becomes "substance" on the pla= ne of the manifested Universe, an illusion, while it remains a "principle" i= n the beginningless and endless abstract, visible and invisible SPACE. It i= s the omnipresent Reality: impersonal, because it contains all and everythi= ng. Its impersonality is the fundamental conception of the System. It is late= nt in every atom in the Universe, and is the Universe itself. (See in chapte= rs on Symbolism, "Primordial Substance, and Divine Thought.")=20 CYCLIC MANIFESTATION (3.) The Universe is the periodical manifestation of this unknown Absolut= e Essence. To call it "essence," however, is to sin against the very spirit= of the philosophy. For though the noun may be derived in this case from the verb esse, "to be," yet IT cannot be identified with a being of any kind, that can be conceived by human intellect. IT is best described as neither Spirit nor matter, but both. "Parabrahmam and Mulaprakriti" are One, in reality, yet two in the Universal conception of the manifested, even in t= he conception of the One Logos, its first manifestation, to which, as the ab= le lecturer in the "Notes on the Bhagavad Gita" shows, IT appears from the objective standpoint of the One Logos as Mulaprakriti and not as Parabrahmam; as its veil and not the one REALITY hidden behind, which is unconditioned and absolute.=20 TEMPORARY - ILLUSION -- MAYA (4.) The Universe is called, with everything in it, MAYA, because all is temporary therein, from the ephemeral life of a fire-fly to that of the S= un. Compared to the eternal immutability of the ONE, and the changelessness o= f that Principle, the Universe, with its evanescent ever-changing forms, mu= st be necessarily, in the mind of a philosopher, no better than a will-o'-the-wisp. Yet, the Universe is real enough to the conscious being= s in it, which are as unreal as it is itself.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS -- INTELLIGENCE IS UNIVERSAL (5.) Everything in the Universe, throughout all its kingdoms, is CONSCIOU= S: i.e., endowed with a consciousness of its own kind and on its own plane o= f perception. We men must remember that because we do not perceive any signs-which we can recognise-of consciousness, say, in stones, we have no right to say that no consciousness exists there. There is no such thing a= s either "dead" or "blind" matter, as there is no "Blind" or "Unconscious" Law. These find no place among the conceptions of Occult philosophy. The latter never stops at surface appearances, and for it the noumenal essenc= es have more reality than their objective counterparts; it resembles therein the mediaeval Nominalists, for whom it was the Universals that were the realities and the particulars which existed only in name and human fancy.= =20 INNER "SPIRIT" IS ALWAYS ACTIVE (6.) The Universe is worked and guided from within outwards. As above so = it is below, as in heaven so on earth; and man-the microcosm and miniature c= opy of the macrocosm-is the living witness to this Universal Law, and to the mode of its action. We see that every external motion, act, gesture, whet= her voluntary or mechanical, organic or mental, is produced and preceded by internal feeling or emotion, will or volition, and thought or mind. As no outward motion or change, when normal, in man's external body can take pl= ace unless provoked by an inward impulse, given through one of the three functions named, so with the external or manifested Universe.=20 DEGREES OF INTELLIGENCE AND POWER The whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of sentient Beings, each having a mission to perfor= m, and who-whether we give to them one name or another, and call them Dhyan-Chohans or Angels-are "messengers" in the sense only that they are = the agents of Karmic and Cosmic Laws.=20 They vary infinitely in their respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence; and to call them all pure Spirits without any of the earthl= y alloy "which time is wont to prey upon" is only to indulge in poetical fancy. For each of these Beings either was, or prepares to become, a man,= if not in the present, then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara).=20 They are perfected, when not incipient, men; and differ morally from the terrestrial human beings on their higher (less material) spheres, only in that they are devoid of the feeling of personality and of the human emotional nature-two purely earthly characteristics.=20 The former, or the "perfected," have become free from those feelings, because (a) they have no longer fleshly bodies-an ever-numbing weight on = the Soul; and (b) the pure spiritual element being left untrammelled and more free, they are less influenced by maya than man can ever be, unless he is= an adept who keeps his two personalities-the spiritual and the physical-entirely separated.=20 The incipient monads, having never had terrestrial bodies yet, can have n= o sense of personality or EGO-ism. That which is meant by "personality," be= ing a limitation and a relation, or, as defined by Coleridge, "individuality existing in itself but with a nature as a ground," the term cannot of cou= rse be applied to non-human entities; but, as a fact insisted upon by generations of Seers, none of these Beings, high or low, have either individuality or personality as separate Entities, i.e., they have no individuality in the sense in which a man says, "I am myself and no one else;" in other words, they are conscious of no such distinct separatenes= s as men and things have on earth.=20 Individuality is the characteristic of their respective hierarchies, not = of their units; and these characteristics vary only with the degree of the plane to which those hierarchies belong: the nearer to the region of Homogeneity and the One Divine, the purer and the less accentuated that individuality in the Hierarchy.=20 They are finite, in all respects, with the exception of their higher principles-the immortal sparks reflecting the universal divine flame-individualized and separated only on the spheres of Illusion by a differentiation as illusive as the rest.=20 They are "Living Ones," because they are the streams projected on the Kos= mic screen of illusion from the ABSOLUTE LIFE; beings in whom life cannot bec= ome extinct, before the fire of ignorance is extinct in those who sense these "Lives."=20 Having sprung into being under the quickening influence of the uncreated beam, the reflection of the great Central Sun that radiates on the shores= of the river of Life, it is the inner principle in them which belongs to the waters of immortality, while its differentiated clothing is as perishable= as man's body. Therefore Young was right in saying that=20 "Angels are men of a superior kind"=20 and no more. They are neither "ministering" nor "protecting" angels; nor = are they "Harbingers of the Most High" still less the "Messengers of wrath" o= f any God such as man's fancy has created.=20 To appeal to their protection is as foolish as to believe that their sympathy may be secured by any kind of propitiation; for they are, as muc= h as man himself is, the slaves and creatures of immutable Karmic and Kosmi= c law. The reason for it is evident. Having no elements of personality in their essence they can have no personal qualities, such as attributed by men, in their exoteric religion= s, to their anthropomorphic God-a jealous and exclusive God who rejoices and feels wrathful, is pleased with sacrifice, and is more despotic in his vanity than any finite foolish man.=20 MAN - HIS COMPOSITION AND POTENCY Man, as shown in Book II., being a compound of the essences of all those celestial Hierarchies may succeed in making himself, as such, superior, i= n one sense, to any hierarchy or class, or even combination of them. "Man c= an neither propitiate nor command the Devas," it is said.=20 MAN'S PROGRESS But, by paralyzing his lower personality, and arriving thereby at the ful= l knowledge of the non-separateness of his higher SELF from the One absolut= e SELF, man can, even during his terrestrial life, become as "One of Us." T= hus it is, by eating of the fruit of knowledge which dispels ignorance, that = man becomes like one of the Elohim or the Dhyanis; and once on their plane th= e Spirit of Solidarity and perfect Harmony, which reigns in every Hierarchy= , must extend over him and protect him in every particular.=20 The chief difficulty which prevents men of science from believing in divi= ne as well as in nature Spirits is their materialism. The main impediment before the Spiritualist which hinders him from believing in the same, whi= le preserving a blind belief in the "Spirits" of the Departed, is the genera= l ignorance of all, except some Occultists and Kabalists, about the true essence and nature of matter. It is on the acceptance or rejection of the theory of the Unity of all in Nature, in its ultimate Essence, that mainl= y rests the belief or unbelief in the existence around us of other consciou= s beings besides the Spirits of the Dead.=20 EVOLUTION IS UNIVERSAL It is on the right comprehension of the primeval Evolution of Spirit-Matt= er and its real essence that the student has to depend for the further elucidation in his mind of the Occult Cosmogony, and for the only sure cl= ue which can guide his subsequent studies.=20 In sober truth, as just shown, every "Spirit" so-called is either a disembodied or a future man. As from the highest Archangel (Dhyan Chohan) down to the last conscious "Builder" (the inferior class of Spiritual Entities), all such are men, having lived aeons ago, in other Manvantaras= , on this or other Spheres; so the inferior, semi-intelligent and non-intelligent Elementals-are all future men. That fact alone-that a Spi= rit is endowed with intelligence-is a proof to the Occultist that that Being must have been a man, and acquired his knowledge and intelligence through= out the human cycle.=20 UNITY - ONENESS There is but one indivisible and absolute Omniscience and Intelligence in the Universe, and this thrills throughout every atom and infinitesimal po= int of the whole finite Kosmos which hath no bounds, and which people call SPACE, considered independently of anything contained in it. But the firs= t differentiation of its reflection in the manifested World is purely Spiritual, and the Beings generated in it are not endowed with a consciousness that has any relation to the one we conceive of. They can h= ave no human consciousness or Intelligence before they have acquired such, personally and individually. This may be a mystery, yet it is a fact, in Esoteric philosophy, and a very apparent one too.=20 PROGRESS IS UNIVERSAL IN NATURE The whole order of nature evinces a progressive march towards a higher li= fe. There is design in the action of the seemingly blindest forces. The whole process of evolution with its endless adaptations is a proof of this. The immutable laws that weed out the weak and feeble species, to make room fo= r the strong, and which ensure the "survival of the fittest," though so cru= el in their immediate action-all are working toward the grand end. The very fact that adaptations do occur, that the fittest do survive in the strugg= le for existence, shows that what is called "unconscious Nature"* is in real= ity an aggregate of forces manipulated=20 * Nature taken in its abstract sense, cannot be "unconscious," as it is t= he emanation from, and thus an aspect (on the manifested plane) of the ABSOL= UTE consciousness. Where is that daring man who would presume to deny to vegetation and even to minerals a consciousness of their own. All he can = say is, that this consciousness is beyond his comprehension.=20 ----------------------------------------------------------- by semi-intelligent beings (Elementals) guided by High Planetary Spirits, (Dhyan Chohans), whose collective aggregate forms the manifested verbum o= f the unmanifested LOGOS, and constitutes at one and the same time the MIND= of the Universe and its immutable LAW.=20 PAST -- PRESENT -- FUTURE Three distinct representations of the Universe in its three distinct aspe= cts are impressed upon our thought by the esoteric philosophy: the PRE-EXISTI= NG (evolved from) the EVER-EXISTING; and the PHENOMENAL-the world of illusio= n, the reflection, and shadow thereof. During the great mystery and drama of life known as the Manvantara, real Kosmos is like the object placed behin= d the white screen upon which are thrown the Chinese shadows, called forth = by the magic lantern. The actual figures and things remain invisible, while = the wires of evolution are pulled by the unseen hands; and men and things are thus but the reflections, on the white field, of the realities behind the snares of Mahamaya, or the great Illusion. This was taught in every philosophy, in every religion, ante as well as post diluvian, in India an= d Chaldea, by the Chinese as by the Grecian Sages. In the former countries these three Universes were allegorized, in exoteric teachings, by the thr= ee trinities emanating from the Central eternal germ and forming with it a Supreme Unity: the initial, the manifested, and the Creative Triad, or th= e three in One. The last is but the symbol, in its concrete expression, of = the first ideal two. Hence Esoteric philosophy passes over the necessarianism= of this purely metaphysical conception, and calls the first one, only, the E= ver Existing. This is the view of every one of the six great schools of India= n philosophy-the six principles of that unit body of WISDOM of which the "gnosis," the hidden knowledge, is the seventh.=20 S D I 272-278 ------------------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =20=20=20 =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Apr 01 08:14:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 40418 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 16:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 16:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 16:14:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 16:13:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 16:13:59 -0000 X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61877 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 16:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 16:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.192) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 16:12:36 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so720262rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:12:34 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=k0eIKOKwC1ZrexnBtf+RKjvZ4T32kFjGiQnMlV1lAnNM+QfpOLuHcIeYS5QMAgIHIYMiI7Cw2EfxgKS0fBFWDcw6IJ/1SNs7ttJbiIENFoBy63wvIw/aH+NS9DQYfEp5G8liU/6f5uAjZRHT/v4I/C4OyUq1GfGQeffVltI1uiQ= Received: by 10.38.75.70 with SMTP id x70mr2652532rna; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.150.42 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:12:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:12:33 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.192 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Reply-To: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 Apr 2005 16:13:58 -0000 Hello everyone, I am glad to be a part of a theosophical mailing list. When I joined, I was informed that I should first send an introduction before engage in any discussion. Well, for starters I've practiced qigong for 7 or so years. It just came naturally to me so I became unusually good at it. After the first year I began having some dreams and visions. I would not remember much afterwards, but as the years passed I remembered more and more from them. I didn't think much of them symbolically, but they intrigued me. After 5 years of having the recurring dream I decided to design a computer game based on them. Naturally, computer programming is my art form and what a great premise for a computer game. I had referred to them as "the Adepts" in my dreams, so I decided to check with google.com to make sure the game title was not already taken. The first article that caught my eye was by William Q. Judge, called, (and I will never forget this), "The Adepts, Some Objections and answers to them". Some details in the article stood out. And they matched dead-on with my dreams. Still, I was highly skeptical that this could be real. This is when I started informing my friends of my discoveries. From then on, I decided to write notes on my dreams, that way I could easily compare them to articles I find later. Soon after, I was drawn to internal alchemy. Strangely enough, internal alchemy felt like second nature, just like qigong. After I started, it began triggering my memory, and I started remembering more of the dreams. Now up until about a year or so ago, I've been starting to hear a voice when I meditate. Oddly enough, I refered to him as, "Master", or uncommonly as, "father". Then soon after I received a message that was apparently precipitated to me, with the Theosophical seal stamped on it. It said, "Mark - 'Certain adepts, who have the ability to see and hear through both time and space...' You will awaken soon enough." Hence my unusual e-mail address. "I must be losing it," I thought. So recently I decided to ask Whitney, my girlfriend, and the only person in my life who would never pass judgement on me, to test if this was real. I told her everything, and we set up an experiment. She would randomly pick a number from 1-10. I would ask my master to procure the number for me, and I would say it. I was right, dead on, 4 times, and I was wrong the one time I guessed myself (I added a control). That has a 1 in 1000 chance of happening, statistically. Not too bad. We went further. I asked her to guess a number between 1 and 20. 3/3 correct, that's a 1 in 8,000 chance, altogether a chance of 1 in 8,000,000. We continued until the probability of guessing was estimated at about 1 in 160 trillion. I made sure to randomly guess the number myself at various times (I guessed right once out of the 15 times I did this). At this point, it was highly improbable that it was just luck. So I put some trust in the guy. So after a long discussion with what seemed like myself, I find: 1. I'm a reincarnation of a former ascended master, named Mena-rai. 2. I was to be reincarnated 20 or so years ago but my former disciple Lisa and I were killed unexpectedly and our physical bodies were unsalvageable (I was killed by gunshot, my disciple was in a car accident). We were reincarnated instantaneously. Now in this incarnation we have other ascended masters following along side us to make sure this doesn't happen again. 2. I am to train 1 disciple, which I have already picked. We are to train in occultism together. I am to teach her what I learned and we have to deal with the following problem: 3. There is a group of dugpas somewhere, that are training in a new form of alchemy that goes past the physical realm, into the astral realm. It causes some strange anomolies in the both of the realms, and has the ability to make a human lose a connection with his astral body and soul and bond with another one, or multiple, and cause him to go insane (when they go insane they lose all sense, the astral bodies seem to take over them). The people who are affected are known as manifests. 4. I am to help the Theosophical society by assisting in helping provide scientific data to back up occultism. I am going to attempt to buy some infrared and radionics devices, and publish my findings on the web. I'm considering doing experiments with pyrokinesis and healing. Well that's it. I always figured there was more to life than this. And it seems I finally may have found it, after seven long years. If anyone wants me to go into more detail about any of this I'd be glad to, I just wanted to basically sum up everything without making my e-mail *too* long (too late :P). I just wanted to see what everyone has to say about this. Again, this is what I experienced. I don't know if any of this is true. I was always taught to very introspective and analytical, so every time something pops up, I question it. So I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of stamp of approval. I just want to know what I'm doing is right. -Mark H. -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Apr 01 09:07:18 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24971 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 17:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 17:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.198) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 17:07:17 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so733526rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:07:17 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=R4zJ/TCOeYobq6n5P1tbVXzzFIpfa2MBBReNiw6w9d9e4iu2tdyKiD3YXSYLYOCxDjHvKhXgda+tb4sN65cdLhNUUQ69BC/njwoEJsak0ZCEyK+2E59cjgUs7ZDdvGMdDp0japDArmFRl9eCc0ili/XTO4B5UmXaeOpV6VqvjTM= Received: by 10.38.203.29 with SMTP id a29mr2670174rng; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.150.42 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:07:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:07:17 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Reply-To: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Judging from the sarcastic tone, I'm guessing this is critical. I see from other postings that apparently some people have a grudge against Z? Strangely enough, this is a discussion on theosophy--surely you'd think everyone would get along, even if they had extreme ideals? I digress; this was what I was looking for, I suppose. a 1 in 160 trillion chance is just that--even how improbable something is, it still can happen. I will still be waiting to hear from more people. I'm sure there's something to this, and if it's not real then I still wish to participate in the discussion. -Mark H. On Apr 1, 2005 11:35 AM, thalprin wrote: > > > I can roll double sixs 11 times in a row -however- I wouldn't > consider that a spiritual event nor a 'proofing'. > > I don't play cards much -and- sometimes I can even see the other > players cards (through the mist) -however- I'd consider that this is > not a spiritual exercise either. > > hehe, is his name Z ? > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > wrote: > > "I must be losing it," I thought. So recently I decided to ask > > Whitney, my girlfriend, and the only person in my life who would > never > > pass judgement on me, to test if this was real. I told her > everything, > > and we set up an experiment. She would randomly pick a number from > > 1-10. I would ask my master to procure the number for me, and I > would > > say it. I was right, dead on, 4 times, and I was wrong the one > time I > > guessed myself (I added a control). That has a 1 in 1000 chance of > > happening, statistically. Not too bad. > > > > We went further. I asked her to guess a number between 1 and 20. > 3/3 > > correct, that's a 1 in 8,000 chance, altogether a chance of 1 in > > 8,000,000. We continued until the probability of guessing was > > estimated at about 1 in 160 trillion. I made sure to randomly guess > > the number myself at various times (I guessed right once out of > the 15 > > times I did this). At this point, it was highly improbable that it > was > > just luck. So I put some trust in the guy. > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > -- > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > waking.adept@g... > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Apr 01 09:32:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36667 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 17:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 17:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.203) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 17:32:07 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so739433rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:32:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=pLeiArvPHzXp5EkyEYsCKvDbJNApCz2l3+tXy7ZvsUwf82TVtUa87/31lRqSn5/FtScVQJEePIwOFibUIaG8LdFRlYUiGELuO/ngP27BslwuJb82YBjCYZeyAJjmbJ+kq0cTvGh1DKE4jmvQOQg849krFFtKyonTHUbahQZ2Hl8= Received: by 10.38.126.71 with SMTP id y71mr2694097rnc; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.150.42 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:32:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:32:05 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.203 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Reply-To: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 I misunderstood, after reading what 'Z' is I know what you were referring to. I thought it was someone who had done something on this list to deserve general disapproval, which I've seen happen on other unrelated mailing lists. Regardless, my main standing argument is that this seems highly unlikely just to happen by chance, even though it still could. Usually science has a reason for such statistical phenomena, but I can't look to science in this area. And if someone such as H.P.B. were to receive messages from a master I see no reason why it couldn't happen to someone else. True -- number guessing is not very spiritual. I'm just using a statistical method to back up my claims. I have no other way to empirically (with my own senses) verify what has happened, because it is wholly and entirely anomolous; there's nothing that can prove that this is or isn't real, but such an experiment would lead me to believe that this is the more likely cause. -Mark H. On Apr 1, 2005 12:12 PM, thalprin wrote: > > > Z? Hmmmm, folks feelings about this is that an issue for you? > > Perhaps, you're not understanding my suggestion judging by the 1 in > 160 trillions remark. > > Extreme ideals? Hmmmmm, like what for instance? > > The discussion of what: Z, numbers-odds a/o spiritual concerns? > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > wrote: > > Judging from the sarcastic tone, I'm guessing this is critical. I > see > > from other postings that apparently some people have a grudge > against > > Z? Strangely enough, this is a discussion on theosophy--surely > you'd > > think everyone would get along, even if they had extreme ideals? > > > > I digress; this was what I was looking for, I suppose. a 1 in 160 > > trillion chance is just that--even how improbable something is, it > > still can happen. > > > > I will still be waiting to hear from more people. I'm sure there's > > something to this, and if it's not real then I still wish to > > participate in the discussion. > > > > -Mark H. > > > > On Apr 1, 2005 11:35 AM, thalprin wrote: > > > > > > > > > I can roll double sixs 11 times in a row -however- I wouldn't > > > consider that a spiritual event nor a 'proofing'. > > > > > > I don't play cards much -and- sometimes I can even see the other > > > players cards (through the mist) -however- I'd consider that > this is > > > not a spiritual exercise either. > > > > > > hehe, is his name Z ? > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > > > wrote: > > > > "I must be losing it," I thought. So recently I decided to ask > > > > Whitney, my girlfriend, and the only person in my life who > would > > > never > > > > pass judgement on me, to test if this was real. I told her > > > everything, > > > > and we set up an experiment. She would randomly pick a number > from > > > > 1-10. I would ask my master to procure the number for me, and I > > > would > > > > say it. I was right, dead on, 4 times, and I was wrong the one > > > time I > > > > guessed myself (I added a control). That has a 1 in 1000 > chance of > > > > happening, statistically. Not too bad. > > > > > > > > We went further. I asked her to guess a number between 1 and > 20. > > > 3/3 > > > > correct, that's a 1 in 8,000 chance, altogether a chance of 1 > in > > > > 8,000,000. We continued until the probability of guessing was > > > > estimated at about 1 in 160 trillion. I made sure to randomly > guess > > > > the number myself at various times (I guessed right once out of > > > the 15 > > > > times I did this). At this point, it was highly improbable > that it > > > was > > > > just luck. So I put some trust in the guy. > > > > > > > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > > > waking.adept@g... > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > waking.adept@g... > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Fri Apr 01 09:39:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90199 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 17:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 17:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 17:39:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 17:39:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 17:39:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 17:39:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 52 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.1.105.136 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Going out of the city for two days. I will be back. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566 X-Yahoo-Profile: anand_gholap_1 Going out of the city for two days. I will be back. From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Apr 01 10:06:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60039 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 18:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 18:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.204) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 18:06:21 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so747150rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:06:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Y9P9tFtY6QyQ7dojY3GbA7O1QM72fhcizqqvEqhKpLhfVMmldvBkhERrRa4GaCNZOWNI0Rjt0RjNVuJ8R0r03IT67uKkEB2mQw+5HTivdiWYyD3QmM7B+svqXEg0nqwkX0wcAspdQV6mg/oaQJSxKifbXgBvhTobnpGYasl8F/4= Received: by 10.39.2.79 with SMTP id e79mr2728217rni; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.150.42 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:06:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:06:14 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Reply-To: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 > So, Z is an issue for you then ? Okay, I heard that. :) No I thought this Z person was an *actual* person, per se, on the mailing list, that was causing a problem. > Hmmmm, statistical analysis is gonna proof your spirituality - hey, > when did this averaging start happening ? > I think you should... what was it, oh, yeah, 'believe' anything you > wanna believe. What other proof is there? H.P.B. said herself, that people don't have to follow in blind faith. I'm trying to rationalize my belief instead of just blindly following something. -Mark H. > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > wrote: > > I misunderstood, after reading what 'Z' is I know what you were > > referring to. I thought it was someone who had done something on > this > > list to deserve general disapproval, which I've seen happen on > other > > unrelated mailing lists. > > > > Regardless, my main standing argument is that this seems highly > > unlikely just to happen by chance, even though it still could. > Usually > > science has a reason for such statistical phenomena, but I can't > look > > to science in this area. And if someone such as H.P.B. were to > receive > > messages from a master I see no reason why it couldn't happen to > > someone else. > > > > True -- number guessing is not very spiritual. I'm just using a > > statistical method to back up my claims. I have no other way to > > empirically (with my own senses) verify what has happened, because > it > > is wholly and entirely anomolous; there's nothing that can prove > that > > this is or isn't real, but such an experiment would lead me to > believe > > that this is the more likely cause. > > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > > > On Apr 1, 2005 12:12 PM, thalprin wrote: > > > > > > > > > Z? Hmmmm, folks feelings about this is that an issue for you? > > > > > > Perhaps, you're not understanding my suggestion judging by the 1 > in > > > 160 trillions remark. > > > > > > Extreme ideals? Hmmmmm, like what for instance? > > > > > > The discussion of what: Z, numbers-odds a/o spiritual concerns? > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > > > wrote: > > > > Judging from the sarcastic tone, I'm guessing this is > critical. I > > > see > > > > from other postings that apparently some people have a grudge > > > against > > > > Z? Strangely enough, this is a discussion on theosophy--surely > > > you'd > > > > think everyone would get along, even if they had extreme > ideals? > > > > > > > > I digress; this was what I was looking for, I suppose. a 1 in > 160 > > > > trillion chance is just that--even how improbable something > is, it > > > > still can happen. > > > > > > > > I will still be waiting to hear from more people. I'm sure > there's > > > > something to this, and if it's not real then I still wish to > > > > participate in the discussion. > > > > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > > > > > On Apr 1, 2005 11:35 AM, thalprin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can roll double sixs 11 times in a row -however- I wouldn't > > > > > consider that a spiritual event nor a 'proofing'. > > > > > > > > > > I don't play cards much -and- sometimes I can even see the > other > > > > > players cards (through the mist) -however- I'd consider that > > > this is > > > > > not a spiritual exercise either. > > > > > > > > > > hehe, is his name Z ? > > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > "I must be losing it," I thought. So recently I decided to > ask > > > > > > Whitney, my girlfriend, and the only person in my life who > > > would > > > > > never > > > > > > pass judgement on me, to test if this was real. I told her > > > > > everything, > > > > > > and we set up an experiment. She would randomly pick a > number > > > from > > > > > > 1-10. I would ask my master to procure the number for me, > and I > > > > > would > > > > > > say it. I was right, dead on, 4 times, and I was wrong the > one > > > > > time I > > > > > > guessed myself (I added a control). That has a 1 in 1000 > > > chance of > > > > > > happening, statistically. Not too bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > We went further. I asked her to guess a number between 1 > and > > > 20. > > > > > 3/3 > > > > > > correct, that's a 1 in 8,000 chance, altogether a chance > of 1 > > > in > > > > > > 8,000,000. We continued until the probability of guessing > was > > > > > > estimated at about 1 in 160 trillion. I made sure to > randomly > > > guess > > > > > > the number myself at various times (I guessed right once > out of > > > > > the 15 > > > > > > times I did this). At this point, it was highly improbable > > > that it > > > > > was > > > > > > just luck. So I put some trust in the guy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > > > > > waking.adept@g... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > > > waking.adept@g... > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > waking.adept@g... > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 01 10:07:59 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16533 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 18:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 18:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 18:07:57 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id r.42.664b5774 (4206) for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:07:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42.664b5774.2f7ee7f4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:07:48 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 4/1/2005 10:17:09 AM Central Standard Time, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: << 3. There is a group of dugpas somewhere, that are training in a new form of alchemy that goes past the physical realm, into the astral realm. It causes some strange anomolies in the both of the realms, and has the ability to make a human lose a connection with his astral body and soul and bond with another one, or multiple, and cause him to go insane (when they go insane they lose all sense, the astral bodies seem to take over them). The people who are affected are known as manifests. >> No, we call them Theosophists. That is why they tend to be so confused. Chuck the Dugpa From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Apr 01 10:28:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19829 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 18:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 18:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.192) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 18:28:33 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so751960rne for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:28:33 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=TYPaXNh4sHvMKcTnV6CYAIoWtB/3gLhN+MtwkYOM37dbvM5+XxTsHAC1RNGdvbHFINWO0UTSZKeVCCL4VvftdI8fEHc+qyAuYvj2LU/0gaI3u20+eXLpL6yvv1KnEsC+us9C3sfF8w9HLvljLoWBgUi2LpRuqRDZX7hINYtkCvg= Received: by 10.38.101.60 with SMTP id y60mr2731446rnb; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.150.42 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:28:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:28:33 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.192 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Reply-To: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 I am curious why I am getting such sarcastic responses. Is it just the nature of the group, or have I done something wrong that I should be aware of? -Mark H. On Apr 1, 2005 1:11 PM, thalprin wrote: > > > "Oh, is that what that is." > > hehe, if you say so. :))) > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." > wrote: > I'm trying to rationalize my belief instead > > of just blindly following something. > > > > > > -Mark H. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From jjhe@charter.net Fri Apr 01 10:42:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjhe@charter.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66504 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net) (209.225.28.204) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from mxip07.cluster1.charter.net (mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.137]) by mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j31IgUF8011849 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:42:30 -0500 Received: from 68-116-80-89.ca.charter.com (HELO [127.0.0.1]) (68.116.80.89) by mxip07.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2005 13:42:30 -0500 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.91,141,1110171600"; d="scan'208"; a="806995526:sNHT14783036" Message-ID: <424D9614.4040904@charter.net> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:42:28 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 209.225.28.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106201926 Hello Mark, This group is mixed. Some participants have a sarcastic side, others do not; some are critical, others are not. I suggest that you go to the archives and read the discussions over the last two weeks to get a feel as to where different participants are coming from. Then, pick a string that appeals to you and join in. --j Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: >I am curious why I am getting such sarcastic responses. Is it just the >nature of the group, or have I done something wrong that I should be >aware of? > >-Mark H. > >On Apr 1, 2005 1:11 PM, thalprin wrote: > > >>"Oh, is that what that is." >> >>hehe, if you say so. :))) >> >>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." >>