From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 00:11:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31251 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 08:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 08:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 08:11:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 17889 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2005 08:11:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20050201081129.17887.qmail@web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.163.222] by web30104.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 00:11:29 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 00:11:29 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.142.200.77 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World GOD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531 X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It came through on BN Study, and my email crashed so had to post it through Theos Talk. Will check out the websites tomorrow. Many thanks Cass samblo@cs.com wrote: Cass, Not sure I follow the reason you replied as you did speaking of the Gnostic Demiurgos. I read the post below your that you were replying to in regard to the inquiry about the Plant of Crossings (Nibiru). On the topic you might enjoy reading the below websites: ASTRO-METRICS http://www.yaridanjo.warmkessel.com/yaridanjo/summary.html Pavel Smutny (NASA Scientist (Retired)) ASTRONOMY in DENDERA ZODIAC and in SENMUT TOMB (givrtime to load) http://mujweb.cz/Veda/senmut John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kay_ziatz@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 02:13:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kay_ziatz@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1799 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 10:13:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 10:13:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 10:13:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 10:11:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 10:11:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:11:05 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1319 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" X-Originating-IP: 83.149.244.163 Subject: Proofs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=211651205 X-Yahoo-Profile: kay_ziatz As for the proofs of ESP observations and existence of the subtle bodies there is a good book by Hector Durville "Manifestation Du Fantome Des Vivants". The book is available in French in Russian. I don't know whether is an English translation. Durville was a psychic researcher who tried to be objective, but he writes much in favour of theosophists. He found that of many systems the theosophical system matches best to his observations, but he adds, "if theosophists theoretized less and experimented more, their books would be more accurate". The value of the book (as of many others of that kind) is diminished by that fact that all persons whom he mentions as the witnesses (and the author himself) are dead long ago, so the sceptic may say that all account is just a fantasy like the books of the theosophists. But as far I know, Durville was never challenged or called an imposter during his life. He was a member of Psychic Research Society, an institution which accused Blavatsky, but I don't know whether the French society was any way connected with the English or was quite independent organization. After World War 1 his researches were just forgotten. the Russian translation is available online at http://www.theosophy.ru but the French original should be ordered in the internet shops. From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Feb 01 02:20:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62856 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 10:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 10:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 10:20:06 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id j.55.6be057b1 (4418) for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:03:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <55.6be057b1.2f30adfb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:03:39 EST To: study@blavatsky.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.8 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Radiation vs. Emanation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Based on the below quote... With reference to the ABC model of the zero-point as the center of consciousness (awareness, will) and its abstract motion, angular momentum, or "spinergy" as the source of the force or substance that composes the "fields of consciousness"... Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that consciousness radiates and matter emanates? If so, wouldn't it also be reasonable to conclude that the zero-point of universal origin (and its ubiquitous reflections or radiation's throughout dimensional or phenomenal space) is the Absolute, and that the substantial fields of consciousness emanating from the spinergy (that grow out of each other, and therefore, evolve and differentiate) are the Relatives? Doesn't this mode of thinking give us a handle that might link the theosophical metaphysics, which considers consciousness as immaterial and outside of time and space, with physics theories such as Superstring/M-brane, quantum field, holographic paradigm, implicate-explicate order, etc. (Ref: Greene, Pribram, Bohm, etc.) -- so that such theories can eventually be consolidated into a single Unified field theory of everything -- which also includes and explains the nature of consciousness and its relationship to matter, as well as the binding of mind to brain? ("Hard problems," incidentally, that conventional reductive science is completely baffled by.) Incidentally one of the keys to the ABC theory of visual perception is the "holographic paradigm" of Pribram, which hypothesizes that the brain creates an electromagnetic hologram of the images focussed on the retinas... That, according to ABC, then transfers "coenergetically" (i.e. by inductive-resonance processes) through the astral fields to the mind-memory fields -- where that hologram can be reconstructed (and reflected back to our point of awareness) by a coherent beam of astral light radiated from our zero-point center of consciousness, wherever in that hologram we intentionally or willfully focus out attention. (Binocular depth perception is also related to this process -- since a higher order hologram can be created of a hologram... But, that's another story.:-) To understand how Pribram's "holonomic brain" theory works, and its relationship to conventional holography, as well as brain neurology, see: http://www.acsa2000.net/bcngroup/jponkp/ Best wishes, Lenny In a message dated 01/29/05 10:03:58 AM, dalval14@earthlink.net writes: >"Radiation" and "Emanation"...express two entirely different ideas, and >are at best apologies for the original terms that could be found; but it the >ordinary meanings are attached to them the idea will be missed. > >Radiation is...the unconscious and spontaneous shooting forth, the action of > a something from which this act takes place; but emanation is something >from which another thing issues in a constant efflux, and emanates >consciously... > >Radiation can come from the Absolute; Emanation cannot. One >difference exists in the idea that Radiation is sure, sooner or later, to be >withdrawn again, while Emanation runs into other emanations and is >thoroughly separated and differentiated. > >Of course at the end of the cycle of time emanation will also be withdrawn >into the One Absolute, but meanwhile, during the entire cycle of changes >emanation will persist. One thing emanates from the other, and, in fact, >from one point of view, emanation is equivalent to Evolution; while >"radiation" represents...--in >the cosmic period... -- an instantaneous action like that of a piece of paper >set on fire under a burning glass, of which act the Sun knows nothing." > Trans. 94-5 > [ see SD I 64; II 572; HPB Art III 334-5; Glos 113 ] From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Feb 01 02:20:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82585 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 10:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 10:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 10:20:07 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.194.3789fb6a (4418) for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:16:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <194.3789fb6a.2f30b0e3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:16:03 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.1 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Master K.H. confirmed Annie Besant as successor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Unfortuunately, Besant's strengh ran out and she couldn't hack it after she fell for and got caught up in the black magical snares of the impostor Leadbeater. I'm sure K.H. was, to say the least, very disappointed by that. :-) Lenny Maurer In a message dated 01/29/05 2:03:37 PM, AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org writes: >After splitting of the TS, in 1890s, some people were and still are >confused about which society is actually Masters' Society. Judge died >in 1896 after appointing Katherin Tingley as his successor. >In 1900 Master K.H. wrote letter to Annie Besant who was the head of >ES-Adyar with following words " The greatest of your trials is yet to >come. We watch over you but you must put forth all your strength- >K.H." > >It is clear from words of Master that Annie Besant was Their true >agent in Esoteric matters and Adyar TS as only true Theosophical >Society. > >Anand Gholap From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Tue Feb 01 02:45:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26899 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 10:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 10:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.163) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 10:45:07 -0000 Received: from versus (unknown [201.11.81.92]) by smtp1.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 103A3344F for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:44:35 -0200 (BRST) Message-ID: <004a01c5084a$a640e4c0$0301010a@versus> To: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:08:09 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.163 From: "krishtar" Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the explanation, Eldon. Just one more question, to end the subject: Is In USA necessary an ADSL mo= dem to have a fast connection? I make my connections using a router-modem ADSL between my PC and the telep= hone ordinary line. My doubt is if the information I was sent is a hoax or I am being , as usua= l, exploited by the telephone company... my bills are very high...but the = 300 KBP/s speed is good. Krishtar----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eldon B Tucker=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: RE: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections There are different kinds of DSL, but it is basically a type of Internet access that is carried along your phone lines. The phone company has to h= ave it setup at their local switching station, and you have to live close eno= ugh to that station (usually less than 15,000 feet) for the signal to be stro= ng enough. The Internet connection comes over the phone line at a different frequency than voice phone calls. When the phone wires reach your house, there would be a splitter that lets phone calls come out one set of wires and the Internet connection out another set of wires. The wires for the Internet connection go into the house and come out a regular phone jack o= n the wall; the DSL modem you would get would connect to that jack. Behind = the DSL modem, you either have a single home computer or a firewall/router wh= ich would allow multiple home computers to share the same connection. DSL is a good form of Internet connection, but it's more expensive and yo= u need to live close to a phone company switching station.=20 Eldon -----Original Message----- From: krishtar [mailto:krishtar_a@brturbo.com]=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:03 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections Friends There is an e-mail going around in my country with the statement that internet speed connections( ranging from from 156 to 512 Kbp/s ) is worldwide possible using the conventional line, and in our country if yo= u need a fast internet connection you have to buy an ADLS Modem ( about 100= ,00 US$ ) and pay an extra fee of 20 - 100 US$ for the connection plus a 10-30,00 US$ for the provider per month.( the price of the "special line" and the provider=B4s price varies depending on the speed)=20 My question is:You, who live ouside Brasil , and have a fast internet ne= ed or do not need special modem and rates? All included in the telephone=B4s monthly bill. It is a steal! My telephone bills are killing me!!! Help! cheers Krishtar =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20 =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eletzerich@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 03:04:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9862 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 11:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 11:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54110.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.245) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 11:04:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 90029 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2005 11:04:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=NUriwmO/2cR9gBnhvuP41+UU0nAv7mNMYOWpd+swUPzsvqU6/5M9uGVpyAjcxhaS2KAf3E8b2j/3EXCfhiMpzZDhJTOrNFw2l6XIjzuX2QwsFsctQHRwy+xU1JxjtogLKtJDwRW8A40PC7QclBF1LbYn7fdo87oLor1V6IQhLAA= ; Message-ID: <20050201110451.90027.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [83.171.216.254] by web54110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 03:04:51 PST Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 03:04:51 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004a01c5084a$a640e4c0$0301010a@versus> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.37.245 From: Erica Letzerich Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419 X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Krishtar, =20 I friend of mine told me that here there is a way to get a fast connection = with normal moden, but I was not interested as already I have ADSL, I will = ask him and after I will send you a private e-mail. =20 Erica krishtar wrote: Thanks for the explanation, Eldon. Just one more question, to end the subject: Is In USA necessary an ADSL mod= em to have a fast connection? I make my connections using a router-modem ADSL between my PC and the telep= hone ordinary line. My doubt is if the information I was sent is a hoax or I am being , as usua= l, exploited by the telephone company... my bills are very high...but the 3= 00 KBP/s speed is good. Krishtar----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eldon B Tucker=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: RE: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections There are different kinds of DSL, but it is basically a type of Internet access that is carried along your phone lines. The phone company has to hav= e it setup at their local switching station, and you have to live close enoug= h to that station (usually less than 15,000 feet) for the signal to be strong enough. The Internet connection comes over the phone line at a different frequency than voice phone calls. When the phone wires reach your house, there would be a splitter that lets phone calls come out one set of wires and the Internet connection out another set of wires. The wires for the Internet connection go into the house and come out a regular phone jack on the wall; the DSL modem you would get would connect to that jack. Behind th= e DSL modem, you either have a single home computer or a firewall/router whic= h would allow multiple home computers to share the same connection. DSL is a good form of Internet connection, but it's more expensive and you need to live close to a phone company switching station.=20 Eldon -----Original Message----- From: krishtar [mailto:krishtar_a@brturbo.com]=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:03 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections Friends There is an e-mail going around in my country with the statement that internet speed connections( ranging from from 156 to 512 Kbp/s ) is worldwide possible using the conventional line, and in our country if you need a fast internet connection you have to buy an ADLS Modem ( about 100,0= 0 US$ ) and pay an extra fee of 20 - 100 US$ for the connection plus a 10-30,00 US$ for the provider per month.( the price of the "special line" and the provider=B4s price varies depending on the speed)=20 My question is:You, who live ouside Brasil , and have a fast internet need or do not need special modem and rates? All included in the telephone=B4s monthly bill. It is a steal! My telephone bills are killing me!!! Help! cheers Krishtar [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Erica Letzerich .'. =09=09 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Feb 01 03:23:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76618 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from [216.244.6.42] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvw7m-0003tj-Mi; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 06:23:24 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To; b=JzFIml1t79ZwK5M1nTh0jLjQqMVaXh/OqdCVZeJ7AAlSIvNFpzI/K1WJSE0s+ri1; To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 03:23:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c50850$6b2cc830$2a06f4d8@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a3689d7f62069cd455b55a517a05ec6f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.67 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 216.244.6.42 Subject: RE: Re: "sepulchre" of the Lower Mind -- entombing the Higher Mind X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Jan 31 2005 Dear John: A "Sepulcher" is a tomb and in the East they are usually white-washed regularly and especially if it is the burial place of a "holy" man. I agree with points you make -- the mental sepulchre of the Lower Mind (Kama-Manas -- the "brain-mind" we are burdened with, and its memories) often entombs the inherent wisdom of the Higher-Mind (or BUDDHI-MANAS -- the Reincarnating, immortal EGO).=20=20 THEOSOPHY points to this, but not all students have reasoned out the accuracy of those statements of the Wisdom Religion. Second re Akasa "AKAS=C2 (Sk.) The subtle, supersensuous spiritual essence which pervades all space; the primordial substance erroneously identified with Ether. Bu= t it is to Ether what Spirit is to Matter, or Atm=E2 to K=E2ma-R=FBpa. It is= ...the Universal Space in which lies inherent the eternal Ideation of the Universe in its ever-changing aspects on the planes of matter and objectivity, and from which radiates the First Logos, or expressed thought. This is why it is stated in the Puranas that Akasa has but one attribute, namely sound, for sound is but the translated symbol of Logos [word-vibration]--"Speech" in its mystic sense... Akasa--in another aspect, Kundalini--occult electricity, the alkahest of th= e alchemists in one sense, or the universal solvent, the same anima mundi on the higher plane as the astral light is on the lower." Glos 13 [AKASA] ",...the invisible sky...the source of life, the reservoir of all energy, and the propeller of every change of matter. In its latent state i= t tallies exactly with our idea of the universal ether; in its active state it became the Akasa, the all-directing and omnipotent god...occult electricity; the alkahest of the alchemists in one sense, or the universal solvent, the same anima mundi as the astral light..." ISIS I xxvii "...the existence of an imponderable, tenuous medium which interpenetrates the entire globe, and in which all the acts and thoughts of every man are felt and impressed...an enormous hypnotizing machine is about..."Akasa"...the "Astral Light"--is entirely beyond our control, we ar= e at the mercy of the pictures made in it and reflected on us...we are moved, without our knowledge, by the impressions made in the Astral Light...as the evil thoughts and deeds are the more material and therefore more firmly impacted into the Astral Light, while the good, being spiritual, easily fad= e out, we are in effect at the mercy of the evil done." Echoes, PP. 5-6 COSMIC BUDDHI, the emanation of the Spiritual Soul Alaya, is the vehicle of Mahat only when that Buddhi corresponds to Prakriti. Then it is called Maha-Buddhi. This Buddhi differentiates through 7 planes, whereas the Buddhi in man is the vehicle of Atman, which vehicle is of the essence of the highest plane of AKASA and therefore does not differentiate. The difference between Manas and Buddhi in man is the same as the difference between the Manasaputra and the Ah-hi in Kosmos." Glos. 199 IMPERISHABLE RECORD OF THOUGHT AND MOTIVE "In the imperishable Record of the Masters you have written them all. Ther= e are registered your every deed and thought; for, though not a chela, as yo= u say to my Brother Morya, nor even a "proteg=E9"--as you understand the term--still, you have stepped within the circle of our work, you have crossed the mystic line which separates your world from ours, and now whether you persevere of not; whether we become later on, in your sight, still more living real entities or vanish out of your mind like so many dream fictions...you are virtually ours. Your hidden Self has mirrored itself in our Akasa; your nature is--yours, your essence is--ours. The flame is distinct from the log of wood which serves it temporarily as fuel; at the end of your apparitional birth--and whether we two, meet face to fac= e in our grosser rupas--you cannot avoid meeting us in Real Existence. Yea, verily good friend your Karma is ours, for you imprinted it daily and hourl= y upon the pages of that book where the minutest particulars of the individua= l stepping inside our circle--are preserved; and that your Karma is your onl= y personality to be when you step beyond. In thought and deed, by day, in soul-struggles by nights. you have been writing the story of your desires and spiritual development. This, every one does who approaches us with any earnestness of desire to become our co-worker, he himself "precipitates" the written entries by the identical process used by us when we write inside your closed letters and uncut pages of books and pamphlets in transit... During the past few months, especially, when your weary brain was plunged i= n the torpor of sleep, your eager soul has often been searching after me, and the current of your thought been beating against my protective barriers of Akas as the lapping wavelets against a rocky shore. What that "inner Self,= " impatient, anxious--has longed to bind itself to, the carnal man, the worldlings' master has not ratified: the ties of life are still as strong as the chains of steel. Sacred indeed some of them are, and no one would ask you to rupture them. There below, lies your long-cherished field of enterprise and usefulness. Ours can never be more that a bright phantom-world to the man of thorough "practical sense;" and if your case b= e in some degree exceptional, it is because your nature has deeper inspirations that those of others, who are still more "businesslike" and th= e fountain-head of whose eloquence is in the brain not in the heart not in th= e heart, which never was in contact with the mysteriously effulgent, and pure heart of Tathagata. If you hear seldom from me, never feel disappointed, my Brother, but say--"It is my fault." Nature has linked all parts of her Empire together by subtle threads of magnetic sympathy, and, there is a mutual correlation even between a star and a man; thought runs swifter than the electric fluid, and your thought will find me if projected by a pure impulse, as min= e will find, has found, and often impressed your mind. We may move in cycle= s of activity divided--not entirely separated from each other. Like the light in the sombre valley seen by the mountaineer from his peaks, every bright though in your mind, my Brother, will sparkle and attract the attention of your distant friend and correspondent. If thus we discover ou= r natural Allies in the Shadow-world--your world and ours outside the precincts--and it is our law to approach every such an one if even there be but the feeblest glimmer of the true "Tathagata" light within him--then how far easier for you to attract us...Indulge not in apprehensions of what evi= l might happen if things should not go as your worldly wisdom thinks they ought; doubt not, for this complexion of doubt unnerves and pushes back one's progress. To have cheerful confidence and hope is quite another thin= g from giving way to the fool's blind optimism: the wise man never fights misfortune in advance..." M L pp, 266-8 "...you are not body, brain, or astral man, but that you are THAT, and "THAT" is the Supreme Soul.=94 WQJ LETTERS 116 "...an entity, that is passing through the occult training in its successiv= e births, gradually has less and less (in each incarnation) of that lower Manas until there arrives a time when its whole Manas, being of an entirely elevated character, is centered in the higher individuality, when such a person may be said to have become a Mahatma... The real Mahatma is then not his physical body but that higher Manas which is inseparably linked to the Atma and its vehicle (the 6th principle)--a union effected by him in a comparatively very short period by passing through the process of self-evolution as laid down by the Occult Philosophy....whoever therefore wants to see the real Mahatma, must use his intellectual sight. He must so elevate his Manas that its perception will be clear and all mists created by Maya must be dispelled. His vision will then be bright and he will see the Mahatmas wherever he may be, for, being merged into the 6th and 7th principles, which are ubiquitous and omnipresent, the Mahatmas may be said to be everywhere...although the whole of humanity is within the mental vision of the Mahatmas, they cannot be expected to take special note of every human being, unless that being by hi= s special acts draws their particular attention to himself.=20=20 The highest interest of humanity, as a whole, is their special concern, for they have identified themselves with the Universal Soul which runs through Humanity, and he, who would draw their attention, must do so through that Soul which pervades everywhere. This perception of the Manas may be called "faith" which should not be confounded with blind belief...This belief should at the same time be accompanied by knowledge, i.e., experience, for "true knowledge brings with it faith." Faith is the perception of the Mana= s (the 5th principle), while knowledge, in the true sense of the term, is the capacity of the Intellect, i.e.., it is spiritual perception...divine thing= s can be sensed only by divine faculties..." --HPB "Mahatmas and Chelas" HPB Articles. I 293-4=20 "The first steps in true occultism are Self discipline, self knowledge and devotion to the interests of others--i.e., unselfishness. One cannot hope to be a chela until the elementary stages are gone through. Your own heart will tell you how much you are prepared for chelaship. Secondly, the adepts when they do take a chela nearly always stop psychic powers for a while, until the disciple has got to know himself, his faults, his follies, his vices and his thoughts as well as his virtues." When the disciples are ready the teachers will appear. By doing just what it can in studying theosophical doctrines, and with their minds the members of a Branch will grow and teach each other, for as yet it is not teachers that are wanted, but the preparation found in study, work and self-discipline. The branch should also try to spread before the people--without proselyting --the doctrines of Theosophy such as Brotherhood, Karma and Reincarnation, and meanwhile should exemplify Brotherhood, and act with energy as well as discrimination." WQJ --Practical Occultism, p. 148 "It is wise to remember that "Ishwara" the Spirit that is common to all dwells inside of us and if that be so, our sincere belief in and reliance upon it will gradually awaken us to the consciousness that we are that spirit itself and not the miserable creatures which walk on this earth bearing our names. Hence I would ever reflect on the spiritual unity of al= l beings, continually saying to myself that I am actually that spirit. Our difficulties are always due to the personality which is unwilling to give itself up to the great idea that it has no real existence except in the one Spirit." WQJ -- Practical Occultism, p. 221 ---------------------- Here are some quotes concerning Libraries : "One of the greatest, and, withal, the most serious objection to the correctness and reliability of the whole work [the Secret Doctrine] will be the preliminary STANZAS ... [being] not in the possession of European Libraries. This is a great drawback to those who follow the methods of research prescribed by official Science; but to the students of Occultism, and to every genuine Occultist, this will be of little moment."=20=20=20 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., pages xxii - xxiii. "It has been claimed in all ages that ever since the destruction of the Alexandrian Library (see Isis Unveiled, Vol. II., p. 27), every work of a character that might have led the profane to the ultimate discovery and comprehension of some of the mysteries of the Secret Science, was, owing to the combined efforts of the members of the Brotherhoods, diligently searche= d for. It is added, moreover, by those who know that once found, save three copies left and stored safely away, such works were all destroyed. In India= , the last of the precious manuscripts were secured and hidden during the reign of the Emperor Akbar." Secret Doctrine, Vol I., intro., page xxiii. "Moreover in all the large and wealthy lamaseries, there are subterranean crypts and cave-libraries, cut in the rock, whenever the gonpa and the lhakhang are situated in the mountains. Beyond the Western Tsaydam, in the solitary passes of Kuen-lun there are several such hiding-places. Along the ridge of Altyn-Toga, whose soil no European foot has ever trodden so far, there exists a certain hamlet, lost in a deep gorge. It is a small cluster of houses, a hamlet rather than a monastery, with a poor-looking temple in it, with one old lama, a hermit, living near by to watch it. Pilgrims say that the subterranean galleries and halls under it contain a collection of books, the number of which, according to the accounts given, is too large t= o find room even in the British Museum." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xxiv.=20 "An immense, incalculable number of MSS, and even printed works known to have existed, are now to be found no more. They have disappeared without leaving the slightest trace behind them. Were they works of no importance they might, in the natural course of time, have been left to perish, and their very names would have been obliterated from human memory. But it is not so; for as now ascertained, most of them contained the true keys to works still extant, and entirely comprehensible, for the greater portion of their readers, without those additional volumes of commentaries and explanations. Such are, for instance, the works of Lao-tse, the predecessor of Confucius."=09 Secret Doctrine, Vol I., intro., page xxv To recapitulate. The Secret Doctrine was the universally diffused religion of the ancient and prehistoric world. Proofs of its diffusion, authentic records of its history, a complete chain of documents, showing its characte= r and presence in every land with the teaching of all its great adepts, exist to this day in the secret crypts of libraries belonging to the Occult Fraternity." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xxxiv.=20 "This statement is rendered more credible by a consideration of the following facts: the tradition of the thousands of ancient parchments saved when the Alexandrian library was destroyed; the thousands of Sanskrit works which disappeared in India in the reign of Akbar; the universal tradition i= n China and Japan that the true old texts with the commentaries, which alone make them comprehensible - amounting to many thousands of volumes - have long passed out of the reach of profane hands; the disappearance of the vas= t sacred and occult literature of Babylon; the loss of those keys which alone could solve the thousand riddles of the Egyptian hieroglyphic records; the tradition in India that the real secret commentaries which alone make the Veda intelligible, though no longer visible to profane eyes, still remain for the initiate, hidden in secret caves and crypts; and an identical belie= f among the Buddhists, with regard to their secret books. The Occultists assert that all these exist, safe from Western spoliating hands, to re-appear in some more enlightened age."=20=20=20 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xxxiv. "For it is not the fault of the initiates that these documents are now "lost" to the profane; nor was their policy dictated by selfishness, or any desire to monopolise the life-giving sacred lore. There were portions of th= e Secret Science that for incalculable ages had to remain concealed from the profane gaze. But this was because to impart to the unprepared multitude secrets of such tremendous importance, was equivalent to giving a child a lighted candle in a powder magazine [armory]." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., pages xxxiv to xxxv. "The documents were concealed, it is true, but the knowledge itself and its actual existence had never been made a secret of by the Hierophants of the Temple, wherein MYSTERIES have ever been made a discipline and stimulus to virtue. This is very old news, and was repeatedly made known by the great adepts, from Pythagoras and Plato down to the Neoplatonists. It was the new religion of the Nazarenes that wrought a change for the worse - in the policy of centuries." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xxxv. =93These truths are in no sense put forward as a revelation; nor does the author claim the position of a revealer of mystic lore, now made public for the first time in the world's history. For what is contained in this work is to be found scattered through thousands of volumes embodying the scriptures of th great Asiatic and early European religions, hidden under glyph and symbol, and hitherto left unnoticed because of this veil.=94 . Secret Doctrine, Vol. I,. preface, page ,vii "Thus every nation received in its turn some of the said truths, under the veil of its own local and special symbolism; which, as time went on, developed into a more or less philosophical cultus, a Pantheon in mythical disguise. Therefore is Confucius, a very ancient legislator in historical chronology, though a very modern Sage in the World's History, show by Dr. Legge - who calls him "emphatically a transmitter, not a maker "- as saying= : "I only hand on: I cannot create new things. I believe in the ancients and therefore I love them." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., pages xxxvi to xxxvii. "Have not the latter [the Vedas] been derided, rejected, and called "a modern forgery" even so recently as fifty years ago? [1838] Was not Sanskri= t proclaimed at one time the progeny of, and a dialect derived from, the Greek, according to Lempriere and other scholars? About 1820, Prof. Max Muller tells us, the sacred books of the Brahmans, of the Magians, and of the Buddhists, "were all but unknown, their very existence was doubted, and there was not a single scholar who could have translated a line of the Veda ... of the Zend Avesta, or ... of the Buddhist Tripitaka, and now the Vedas are proved to be the work of the highest antiquity whose preservation amounts almost to a marvel. (Lecture on the Vedas)." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., pages xxxvii to xxxviii. "The same will be said [is a forgery, etc.] of the Secret Archaic Doctrine, when proofs are given of its undeniable existence and records. But it will take centuries before much more is given from it. ... In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent b= y the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exist= s a Science called Gupta-Vidya [secret, esoteric knowledge]; and that like th= e once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last found." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xxxviii. "He [the reader] is asked to give all his attention to that millennium whic= h divided the pre-Christian and the post-Christian periods, by the year ONE o= f the Nativity. This event -- whether historically correct or not -- has nevertheless been made to serve as a first signal for the erection of manifold bulwarks against any possible return of, or even a glimpse into, the hated religions of the Past; hated and dreaded - because throwing such = a vivid light on the new and intentionally veiled interpretation of what is now known as the "New dispensation." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xl. =93Over the portals of our own [era, millennium ?], the future seer may discern other words, that will point to the Karma for cunningly made-up HISTORY, for events purposely perverted, and for great characters slandered by posterity, mangled out of recognition, between the two cars of Jagannath= a -- Bigotry and Materialism; one accepting too much, the other denying all.= =94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, intro., page xli =93[Philosophy] repudiates in its name of Philo-Theo-Sophia the grotesque i= dea that Infinite, Absolute Deity should, or rather could, have any, whether direct or indirect, relation to finite illusive evolutions of matter, and therefore cannot imagine a universe outside that Deity, or the latter absen= t from the smallest speck of animate or inanimate substance.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 533 =93Pantheism may be "physically rediscovered." It was known, seen, and felt= by the whole of antiquity. Pantheism manifests itself in the vast expanse of the starry heavens, in the breathing of the seas and oceans and the quiver of life of the smallest blade of grass. Philosophy rejects one finite and imperfect God in the universe, as the anthropomorphic deity of the monotheist is represented by his followers.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 533 =93It is the Sun-fluids or Emanations that impart all motion and awaken all into life, in the solar system. It is attraction and repulsion, but not as understood by modern physics and according to the law of gravity; but in harmony with the laws of Manvantaric motion designed from the early Sandhya the Dawn of the rebuilding and higher reformation of the System. These law= s are immutable; but the motion of all the bodies, which motion is diverse an= d alters with every minor Kalpa - is regulated by the Movers, the Intelligences within the Cosmic soul.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I. pages 529-5308. =93If ever this theory of the Sun-Force being the primal cause of all life = on earth and motion in heaven is accepted, and if that other far bolder one of Herschell -- about certain organisms in the Sun-is accepted even as a provisional hypothesis, then will our teachings be vindicated, and esoteric allegory shown to have anticipated Modern Science by millions of years, probably, for these are the Archaic teachings.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 529 =93Occultism has named it for ages, and so have all the ancient philosopher= s; but then all such beliefs are now proclaimed exploded superstitions. The "extra cosmic" God has killed every possibility of belief in intra-cosmic intelligent Forces, yet who, or what is the original pusher in that motion? "When we have learned the cause, unique et speciale, that pushes, we will b= e ready to combine it with the one which attracts," says Francoeur ("Astronomie," p. 342). And again - "Attraction between the celestial bodie= s is only repulsion: it is the Sun that drives them incessantly onward; for otherwise, their motion would stop."=20 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 529 =93Atoms, Ether, or both, modern speculation cannot get out of the circle o= f ancient thought; and the latter was soaked through with archaic occultism.= =94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 528. =93Every fire has a distinct function and meaning in the worlds of the physical and the spiritual. It has, moreover, in its essential nature a corresponding relation to one of the human psychic faculties, besides its well determined chemical and physical potencies when coming in contact with the terrestrially differential matter. Science has no speculations to offer upon fire per se; Occultism and ancient religious science have. This is shown even in the meagre and purposely veiled phraseology of the Puranas, where (as in the Vayu Purana) many of the qualities of the personified fire= s are explained.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 521. =93The necessity is easily explained. Just as in old alchemical works the r= eal meaning of the substances and elements meant are concealed under the most ridiculous metaphors, so are the physical, psychic, and spiritual natures o= f the Elements (say of fire) concealed in the Vedas, and especially in the Puranas, under allegories comprehensible only to the Initiates. Had they no meaning, then indeed all those long legends and allegories about the sacredness of the three types of fire, and the forty-nine original fires- personified by the Sons of Daksha's daughters and the Rishis, their husbands, "who with the first son of Brahma and his three descendants constitute the forty-nine fires" - would be idiotic verbiage and no more. But it is not so.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 520 =93But to do this requires a boundless love of truth and the surrender of t= hat prestige-however false-of infallibility, which the men of Science have acquired among the ignorant and flippant, though cultured, masses of the profane. To blend the two sciences, the archaic and the modern, requires first of all the abandonment of the actual materialistic lines. It necessitates a kind of religious mysticism and even the study of old magic, which our Academicians will never take up.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 520 =93Science has no right to deny to the Occultists their claim to a more profound knowledge of the so-called Forces; which, they say, are only the effects of causes generated by Powers, substantial, yet supersensuous, and beyond any kind of matter with which they (the Scientists) have hitherto become acquainted. The most science can do is to assume the attitude of agnosticism and to maintain it. Then it can say: "Your case is no more proven than is ours; but we confess to knowing nothing in reality either about Force or matter, or that which lies at the bottom of the so-called correlations of Forces. Therefore, time alone can prove who is right and who is wrong. Let us wait patiently, and meanwhile show courtesy instead o= f scoffing at each other." Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page 520 =93Accept the explanations and teachings of Occultism, and, the Blind inert= ia of physical Science being replaced by the intelligent active Powers behind the veil of matter, motion and inertia become subservient to those Powers. It is on the doctrine of the illusive nature of matter, and the infinite divisibility of the atom, that the whole science of Occultism is built. It opens limitless horizons to substance informed by the divine breath of its soul in every possible state of tenuity, states still undreamt of by the most spiritually disposed chemists and physicists.=94 Secret Doctrine, Vol I, page, 520 ----------------------------------------- Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: samblo Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:01 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: "sepulchre" of the Lower Mind -- entombing the Higher Mind Dallas, Thanks for your comments, as always. One of your recent posts contained= =20 the term "sepelchre" whgich caught my attention.=20 I remembered a verse "Ye are become like unto whitened sepelchre's" I read many years ago in the western Bible, when I first read it it was not clear to me the context of it's meaning, but some years later after an experience I posited one interpretation from my personal acquired view.=20 It is this, today I type this post and the background in the e-mail box is white, as my activity of expression occurs in typing, the letters appear an= d are enabled to be read, to me this is like Purush [SPIRIT] and Prakriti [MATTER] as a simile.=20 Our lower mind, the conditioned consciousness is in many ancient writings likened to the "veiled' aspirant which being veiled as it is, yet having it's very existance intrinsically within the limitless Purush.=20 it is in it's own self made whitened sepelchre the walls being the lower mind of=20 conditioned consciousness of each of humankind, our actions are the letters of=20 our expression and if one is of the condition to be able to penetrate beyon= d the=20 self made walls of the tomb of lower consciousness one meets oneself awaiting=20 all about, limitless like the sky and space and Purush.=20 It is very Zen like to me, there is no arriving as there never was an actua= l departure, only the self created veil mediates context of perception, regulates and governs aware reality. Since all that we are and all that is about us, past,present, future has relative existence inseparable from the Purush as the senior substrate=20 I think akash is also dependent to it also and Akash may be stratified wit= h many=20 planes and levels.=20 I agree with your point about physical Libraries, though useful to our hand= s it is only a subset that has meaning to the lower mind that requires object= s of tangible nature that reinforce the veil agreements that collectively maintain the common context dear to the survival dynamics of the conditione= d lower mind and consciousness. John=20=20 From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 04:22:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49961 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 12:22:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 12:22:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 12:22:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 12:22:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 12:22:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:22:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050201035626.65969.qmail@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1377 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 83.85.214.69 Subject: Re: GOD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: I think the Germans did an interesthing search I have not time to read all but put it on cd here is the link: http://www.hermes-trismegistos.com/en/agm/html They don't give all in English , other parts in German, but that is no problem for me, for you I cannot know. In the toth hermes rules gives visualisation +vibration = manifestation and on that, light as well as dark forces are working. Greetings Christina > The gnostics who teach that the true God(the father) did not create this world/universe > and that we are trapped sparks here in our physical bodies and this world/cosmos. > > Sounds like a good argument for an anti-christ. I believe his followers say it is already incarnated and has already started its work on deceiving the mindless into believing it is the coming of the new christ. It's mission will unfold from the year 2010-2012 onwards and sweep them up into his mortal/astral kingdom as part of its collective. > > HPB teaches us that Christ will never incarnate again in the human form, but is working through the ethereal planes. So any theosophist knows that any Avatar in the flesh is not ours! > > Cass > > >--- > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Feb 01 04:31:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38948 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from [209.179.128.49] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CvxBU-0001ks-KF; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 07:31:20 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To; b=i2UlPC82A/mqt/+F2yq2410YM2ibw+X+A+5ko2NAEbaYFCbZW/4KV70DH5+v5mlo; To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 04:31:02 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c50859$e726d300$2a06f4d8@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b06936215eab0c1e6b1880113e42d401350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.67 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 209.179.128.49 Subject: RE: Beyond Causal Explan. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Feb 1 2005 Dear Friend: To be brief: MANAS is the Mind-principle the thinker. That is a capacity which has no "moral color" and as such is singular.=20 However, in man's nature and as an active division,=20 It forms a bridge between the Spiritual HIGHER SELF and the Material Lower Self. It is therefore dual in its actions although singular in itself. Th= e difference is one of virtue and motive in making decisions for personal action. This is what makes some view it as a single principle divided into either two or three.=20 Perhaps some of these references will also help you. THEOSOPHIST. Try to imagine a "Spirit," a celestial Being, whether we call it by one name or another, divine in its essential nature, yet not pur= e enough to be one with the ALL, and having, in order to achieve this, to so purify its nature as to finally gain that goal. It can do so only by passin= g individually and personally, i. e., spiritually and physically, through every experience and feeling that exists in the manifold or differentiated Universe. It has, therefore, after having gained such experience in the lower kingdoms, and having ascended higher and still higher with every rung on the ladder of being, to pass through every experience on the human planes.=20 =20=20=20 In its very essence it is THOUGHT, and is, therefore, called in its plurality Manasa putra, "the Sons of the (Universal) mind." This individualised "Thought" is what we Theosophists call the real EGO, the thinking Entity imprisoned in a case of flesh and bones.=20 =20=20=20 This is surely a Spiritual Entity, not Matter, and such Entities are the incarnating EGOS that inform the bundle of animal matter called mankind, an= d whose names are Manasa or "Minds."=20 =20=20=20 But once imprisoned, or incarnate, their essence becomes dual: that is t= o say, the rays of the eternal divine Mind, considered as individual entities= , assume a two-fold attribute which is=20 =20=20=20 (a) their essential inherent characteristic, heaven-aspiring mind (highe= r Manas), and=20 =20=20=20 (b) the human quality of thinking, or animal cogitation, rationalised owing to the superiority of the human brain, the Kama-tending or lower Manas.=20 =20=20=20 One gravitates toward Buddhi, the other, tending downward, to the seat o= f passions and animal desires. The latter have no room in Devachan, nor can they associate with the divine triad which ascends as ONE into mental bliss= . Yet it is the Ego, the Manasic Entity, which is held responsible for all th= e sins of the lower attributes, just as a parent is answerable for the transgressions of his child, so long as the latter remains irresponsible.=20 =A0 ENQUIRER. Is this "child" the "personality"?=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. It is.=20=09 Key, pp 184-5 =20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 ________________________________________________ =20=20=20 =20=20=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0Atma the inseparable ray of the Universal =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0THE HIGHER=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 and ONE SELF. It is the G= od above, more =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 SELF is=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 than= within, us. Happy the man who succeeds =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0in saturating his inner Ego with it! =20=20=20 _________________________________________________ =20=20=20 =20=20=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0the Spiritual soul or Buddhi, in close union with THE SPIRITUAL=A0=A0=A0 Manas, the mind-principle, without which it =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 divine EGO is=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0is no EGO at all, but on= ly the Atmic Vehicle. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =20=20=20=20 =A0=A0______________________________________________________=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Manas, the "Fifth" Principle, so called, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0independently of Buddhi. The Mind-Prin- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0ciple is only the Spiritual Ego when merged =A0=A0=A0THE INNER, or=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0into one with Buddhi,=AF no mate= rialist being =A0=A0 HIGHER "EGO"=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0supposed to have in him such an Ego, h= ow- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 is ever g= reat his intellectual capacities. It is=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0the permanent Individuality or the=20 Reincarnating Ego."=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0_____________________________________________________=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0the physical man in conjunction with his lower THE LOWER,=A0=A0=A0=A0Self, i. e., animal instincts, passions, desires, or PERSONAL=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0etc. It is called the "false personality," an= d =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0" EGO"=A0is=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 consists of the l= ower Manas combined with =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Kama-rupa, and operating through the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Physical body and its phantom or "double."=20 =20=20=20 __________________________________________________ =20=20=20 =20=20=20 Key, pp. 174-6 =20=20=20 ------------------------------------------ MIND: ILLUSIONS AND REALITIES=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =09 "Man, made of thought, occupant of many bodies from time to time, is eternally thinking. His chains are through thought, his release due to nothing else." GITA NOTES, p. 141 "It is the spiritual evolution of the inner, immortal man, that forms the fundamental tenet of the Occult Sciences." S.D. I p.634 [Note: The following embodies suggestions concerning the developing of the "higher thought." Intuition is our common heritage. It is the next "step" on all our "Paths." Here are hints to be found scattered in Theosophical Literature that lead to this perception and can reinforce it, when their inherent logic is grasped. TRUE NATURE OF MAN-MIND "These three things we have to know: Each one is the Self in his innermos= t nature; every power that he has arises in that Self; every being of every kind is conscious, with the power of the extension of its range of perception and action, while every instrument is due to the limitation of the conception of the individual's real nature...The Self perceives what ma= y be perceived according to its own ideals, according to its own faith, but that which is perceived is never the Self...It is only by realizing It within ourselves that we realize its existence in every other being and strive to aid that being to see for himself the true path by which he can realize his true nature!" F.P., p. 356 " It is the spiritual Ego or Self that serves as the fundamental base, determining the tone of the whole life of man--that most capricious, uncertain and variable of all instruments, and which is more than any other needs constant tuning; it is its voice alone, which like the sub-bass of a= n organ underlies the melody of his whole life...in addition to the physical [he] has also a spiritual brain. If the former is wholly dependent for the degree of its receptivity on its own physical structure and development, it is, on the other hand, entirely subordinate to the latter, inasmuch as it i= s the spiritual Ego alone, and accordingly as it leans more towards its two highest principles, or towards its physical shell that can impress more or less vividly the outer brain with the perception of things purely spiritual or immaterial. Hence it depends on the (p.298) acuteness of the mental feelings of the inner Ego, on the degree of spirituality of its faculties, to transfer the impression of the scenes its semi-spiritual brain perceives= , the words it hears and what it feels, to the sleeping physical brain of the outer man. The stronger the spirituality of the faculties of the latter, the easier it will be for the Ego to awake the sleeping hemispheres, arous= e into activity the sensory ganglia and the cerebellum and to impress the former...the vivid picture of the subject so transferred...the more spiritual a man, the more active his fancy, and the greater probability of his receiving in vision the correct impressions conveyed to him by his all-seeing, his ever-wakeful Ego. The spiritual senses of the latter, unimpeded as they are by the interference of the physical senses, are in direct intimacy with his highest spiritual principle; and the latter thoug= h per se quasi-unconscious part of the utterly unconscious, because utterly immaterial Absolute ..."=20=20=20=20=20 HPB ARTICLES, II, p. 297-8 "The whole individuality is centered in the three middle or 3rd., 4th and 5th principles. During earthly life it is all in the fourth the center of energy, volition--will...[ the individuality ] to run successfully its seven-fold and upward course has to assimilate to itself the eternal-life power, residing but in the seventh and then blend the three (fourth, fifth, and seventh) into one--the sixth. Those who succeed in doing so become Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, etc.=20=20 The chief object of our struggle and initiations is to achieve this union while yet on earth. Those who will be successful have nothing to fear of during the fifth, sixth and seventh rounds..." MAHAT. LET., p. 77-8 "...if this is believed and the reality of the Higher Self admitted, it follows from what is called the mysterious power of meditation that a sincerely devoted man who earnestly calls upon the Higher Self for aid in right conduct will receive in the dream state that succeeds the condition o= f Sushupti the aid asked for...But the questions asked and impressions desire= d must be high and altruistic, because the Higher Self has no concern with material things nor with any temporal affairs..."=20 WQJ THEOS. FORUM, p. 8 "Before the Soul can comprehend and may remember, she must unto the Silent Speaker be united, just as the form to which the clay is modeled is first united with the potter's mind." VOICE, p. 3 SPIRIT AS DISTINGUISHED FROM SOUL-MIND "...we may designate the spirit as the centrifugal, and the soul as the centripetal, spiritual energies. When in perfect harmony, both forces produce one result; break or damage the centripetal motion of the earthly soul tending toward the center which attracts it; arrest its progress by clogging it with a heavier weight of matter than it can bear, and the harmony of the whole, which was its life, is (p.146) destroyed. Individual life can only be sustained by this two-fold force. The least deviation fro= m harmony damages it; when it is destroyed beyond redemption, the forces separate and the form is gradually annihilated..." HPB ART. II, p. 145-6 "...there is That which causes change to succeed change, and That is the indwelling spirit, which continually impels the instruments It has evolved towards further perfection. So progress and evolution mean an unfolding from within outward..." GITA NOTES, p. 191=20 "Buddhi becomes conscious by the accretions it gets from Manas..." S.D. I, p. 244 ORDEALS OF MANY INCARNATIONS=20 DEVELOPS THE MIND-SOUL "One only inflexible rule has been ever binding upon the neophyte, as it is binding now--the complete subjugation of the lower by the higher [nature]. HPB ART., II, p. 110 "...the spirit has to pass through the ordeal of incarnation and life, and be baptized with matter before it can reach experience and knowledge. Afte= r which only it receives the baptism of the soul, or self-consciousness, and may return to its original condition of a god, plus experience, ending with omniscience...it can return to the original state of the homogeneity of primordial essence only through the addition of the fruitage of Karma, whic= h alone is able to create an absolute conscious deity, removed but one degree from the absolute ALL." HPB ART. I, p. 130 (see also KEY, p. 183-4) "Of the path of true Occultism it is said, "The first step is sacrifice." F. P. p. 13 "...we must absorb and work into the practice and the theory laid down, for they are not written merely for the intellect, but for the whole spiritual nature. There must be within the man something which he already knows, tha= t leaps up and out when he scans the books of wisdom; a thing already existing, which only takes an added life or confirmation from books..." WQJ ART. II p. 462 "This devotion to an ideal is also founded upon another thing, which is tha= t a man is hardly ready to be a chela unless he is able to stand alone, and uninfluenced by other men and events. For he must stand alone, and he migh= t as well know this at the beginning as at the end." WQJ LETTERS, p. 41=20 "Getting back the memory of past lives is really the whole of the process." WQJ Letters, p. 78 "Reliance and pressure upon our own inner nature, in moments of darkness, are sure to be answered by the voice of Krishna, the inner guide." GITA NOTES, p. 27 "The whole nature of man must be used wisely by the one who desires to ente= r the way. Each man is to himself absolutely the way, the truth and the life= . But he is only so when he grasps his whole individuality firmly, and by the force of his awakened spiritual will recognizes this individuality as not himself, but that thing which (p.6) he has with pain constructed for his ow= n use, and by means of which he purposes, as his growth slowly develops his intelligence, to reach to the life beyond individuality." LIGHT ON THE PATH, p. 5-6 "It is impossible for mortals to utterly abandon actions; but he who gives up the results of action is the true renouncer." B. GITA, p. 123 "...as yet it is not teachers that are wanted, but the preparation found i= n study, work, and self-discipline...The first steps in true occultism are Self-discipline, self-knowledge, and devotion to the interests of others--i.e.: unselfishness...Your own heart will tell you how much you are prepared for chelaship." PRACT, OCC., p. 148 "...to become a genuine spiritual entity...man must first create himself anew...thoroughly eliminate from his mind and spirit, not only the dominating influence of selfishness and other impurity, but also the infection of superstition and prejudice." ISIS I, p. 39=20 "...the practice of moral and physical purity, and of certain austerities, develops the vital soul power of self-illumination. Affording to man the control over his own immortal spirit..." ISIS I p. 18 "Who is bold enough to say that the divine Egos of our mankind--at least th= e elect out of the multitudes passing on to other spheres--will not become in their turn the "divine" instructors of a new mankind generated by them on a new globe, called to life and activity by the disembodied "principles" of our Earth?" S.D. I, p. 309=20 "...he who would profit by the wisdom of the universal mind has to reach i= t through he whole of Humanity."=20 HPB ART., II, p. 107 "Raise the [lower] self by the [higher] Self. LETTERS, P. 35=20 "We are...in this incarnation...to be just as much as we can...if we can in the midst of suffering hold ourselves calm and away from it...we make our own storms. The power of any and all circumstances is a fixed, unvarying quality, but as we vary in our reception of these, it appears to us that ou= r difficulties vary in intensity. They do not at all. We are the variants.= " LETTERS, P. 36=20 "If we admit that we are in this stream of evolution, then each circumstance must be to us quite right...learn calmness...Ignorance of the law cannot be pleaded among men, but ignorance of fact may...The Law ...has regard for no man...If you can succeed in looking at it all as just what yo= u in fact desired then it will act not only as a strengthener of your good thoughts, but will act reflexly on your body and make it stronger keep up the aspiration and the search." W Q J LETTERS, P. 36 [ As we are always in contact with our Higher Self [ATMA] we know what is true and right always. That is ` INTUITION.] "Is not the Self pure, bright bodiless, and free,--and art thou not That? The daily waking life is but a penance and the trial of the body, so that it, too, may thereby acquire the right condition..." WQJ LETTERS. P. 37 =20 "...the influences of this present age are powerful for producing these feelings. What despair and agony of doubt exist to-day in all places!...th= e wise man waits...We both are that soundless OM; we rest together upon the bosom of Master...the wise man learns to assume in the body an attitude of carelessness that is more careful really than any other...if the eye is fixed where the light shines, we shall presently know what to do." LETTERS, p.37 "...a fierce determined effort to plant myself nearer the altar of sacrifice..."Do what you can, if you ever expect to see Them."...if we have an immense devotion and do our best, the result will be right for Them and for us..."that which was done in Master's name was right and came out right." LETTERS, P. 38 "Each one would see the Self differently and yet would never see it, for to see it is to be it...and then there is the lower self, great in its way, an= d which must first be known...The mystery of ages is man--each one of us..." LETTERS, P. 39 "Violent control is not so good as gentle control, continuous and firmly unrelaxed...Gentleness is better because an opposition current is always provoked...this gives the unaccustomed student more time and gradual strength." LETTERS, P. 39 "Every situation ought to be used as a means...it enables us to know philosophy...You have the key to self and that is all; Take it and drag ou= r the lurker inside...Generosity and love are the abandonment of self...increase your confidence, not in your abilities, but in the great Al= l being thyself." LETTERS, P. 39 BATTLE OF MANAS AND KAMA=20=20=20 [ MIND TO CONTROL DESIRE ] "...to have conquered desire is to have learned how to use and control the [lower] self; to have attained to self-knowledge is to have retreated to the inner fortress from whence the personal man can be viewed with impartiality...to recognize is to achieve the great task of gazing upon the blazing light without dropping the eyes and not falling back in terror, as though before some ghastly phantom...to hear the voice of the silence is to understand that from within comes the only true guidance...For when the disciple is ready, the Master is ready also." LIGHT ON THE PATH, p. 22 "Arjuna's name is Parantapa "harasser of foes". Arjuna is the human soul whose foes are of his own household, the senses and all that emanates from them. When the human begins to harass his foes,[control and subdue them] then only be begins to tread the Inner Path, and subduing the outer, he unfolds the inner eye to see what is revealed... the AUM..." Gita Notes, "He who is brave and persevering enough, ready to crush the animal in himself, and forgetting the human self, sacrifices it to his Higher Ego, ca= n always find his way to become initiated into these [esoteric] mysteries." = =20 HPB ART. III, p. 44=20 SELF-KNOWLEDGE " Para-Vidya, the knowledge of the Self, stands guard over all arts, sciences, philosophies and religions, but the hazardous journey to Self-Realization is only accomplished by the daring soul who wills to seek the Hidden Light, and having sought, knows the Secret Heart." STUDY. IN THE S.D., p. 35=20 " The way to final freedom is within thy Self. That way begins and ends outside of Self." VOICE, p. 42 "The kingly mystery is devotion to the light that comes from within." LETTERS, p. 110 "Knowledge of the Supreme Self comes from identifying with It; realizatio= n comes from dwelling upon the thing to be realized. The "power to perceive" is the very essence of our being..." GITA NOTES, p. 204 RESPONSIBILITY "Our responsibility lies in our fidelity to our own higher nature."=20=20 Q & A, p. 242 "Each soul is a self-evolved being who is responsible only to his own Higher Self." Q & A, p. 241 "Our work is with ourselves...and we can do only what we can for others, giving them such opportunities as are beyond us to take; then they must choose. WQJ said there are two things needed--to hold on firmly, and to have perfect confidence...(He used the words "hold on grimly"...) The very sacrifices made to relieve the trials of others, are also tests for ourselves, and means of growth, growth coming from the sacrifice of the lower to the higher in every way, as well as on every plane of being. It i= s spiritual fire that burns out all the dross. At no time is the way easy, but it is sure, and the refining goes on...Too often we think all depends upon our effort and continuance; yet we must know that all these things ar= e provided for...All the trial and training tend to pull us out of one place in order that we may lay hold of another and better one, when we determine to "suffer or enjoy whatever the Higher Self has in store for one by way of discipline and experience." It is the Higher Self that pulls us into place= s and conditions that the personality would run in afright (p. 140) from, if it alone were acting...In this work natures are intensified; good and bad come to the surface, but the cleansing process is gradual. Each must do hi= s own work of elimination where such is seen to be needed; it is a process o= f purpose and discrimination, and events bring us opportunities. Wise are those who take advantage of opportunities and examine motives in the handling of events. The Law works in strange ways at times; it is never idle and it makes no mistakes. Let us rely on It, for there is nothing else on which we may." F.P. p. 139-40 "Forms and conditions do change, but not of themselves; there is That which causes change to succeed change, and That is the indwelling spirit, which continually impels the instruments It has evolved towards further perfection. So progress and evolution mean an unfurling from within outward, a constant impulsion toward a better and better instrument for the use of the Spirit--the Self within." BHAGAVAD GITA. NOTES, p. 191 "To carefully note things and not allow the notation to affect our proper course of conduct--that is, to note impersonally--is studying the hearts of men who make up the world in which we live; is studying man as a whole, in fact, for the whole is made up of the parts. Such an attitude neither judges nor condemns, but notes, in order to help understandingly...When we can read the thoughts of others, such knowledge is never used to the detriment of others but ever for their benefit and with wisdom..."Kill in thyself all memory of past experiences." If we do not do this we live in them and rejuvenate them...Reliance on the Self--"That Thou Art"--is the wa= y out. "As we admit the reality of the (p. 142) Higher Self, we should embrace the idea, dwell on it day in and day out until the will and desire naturally incline to it and have it as the subtone or aim of thought. This process will make the line of influence brighter and better with every thought. When the influence grows strong it pervades the entire nature and strengthens as well as improves. It will give knowledge and also energy. This is the real and only road to the Masters, the Adepts, the Mahatmas." F.P., p. 141-42 INTUITION "...the eye of the heart is intuition--the mystery of the diastole and systole of the spiritual heart, which in expanding, remembers, and in contracting forgets the Truth of Truths--its own impersonal ever-existing state. This forgetfulness is left behind, the robe of memory is donned whe= n that heart through "self-induced and self-devised efforts" (S.D., I, 17) acts altruistically for the whole of which it is but a part... When a student follows his aspirations, endeavoring to practice esoteric doctrines, he fancies that a will resolve is a simple expression of his goo= d desires. We need to recall the four words HPB inserts in the third Proposition "(checked by its Karma)"--all our self-induced and self-devised efforts are checked by the Karma of our long past. Free Will, and binding (or limiting) Fate function together like Spirit and Matter, two aspects of the One Reality." STUDIES IN THE S.D., p. 64 "Listen to the song of life." (p. 10)...At the very base of your nature yo= u will find faith, hope and love...underneath all life is the strong current that cannot be checked; the great waters are there in reality...All those beings among whom you struggle on are fragments of the Divine." LIGHT ON THE PATH, p. 23 "...true devotion may bring him back the knowledge, that knowledge which was his in former births." VOICE, p. 41 =09 PURPOSE OF DEVACHAN "...the hours of his posthumous life, when unveiled he stands face to face with truth and the short-lived mirages of his terrestrial existences are fa= r from him, compose or make up, in our ideas, the only reality. Such breaks, in spite of the fact that they are finite, do double service to the Sutratma, which, perfecting itself constantly. follows without vacillation, though very slowly, the road leading to its last transformation, when, reaching its aim at last. it becomes a Divine Being...Sutratma is the actor= , and its numerous and different incarnations are the actor's parts...Like an actor the soul is bound to play, during the cycle of births up to the very threshold of Paranirvana, many such parts, which often are disagreeable to it, but like a bee, collecting its honey from every flower, and leaving the rest to feed the works of the earth, our spiritual individuality, the Sutratma, collecting only the nectar of moral qualities and consciousness from every terrestrial personality in which it has to clothe itself, forced by Karma, unites at last all these qualities in one, having then become a perfect being, a Dhyan Chohan..." HPB ART., II, p. 271 "Life is better than death, for death again disappoints the Self. Complete knowledge must be attained in the triune man ... By living as long as one can, one gives the Self that longer chance." WQJ LETTERS, p. 35 "...the true monitor is within...we must live and die by ourselves...runnin= g here and there to see anything or person does not in itself give progress...this should not be dwelt on as an end;..." LETTERS, p. 38 "Vibration is the key to it all. The different states are only differences of vibration...But the important thing is to develop the Self in the self, and then the possessions of wisdom belonging to all wise men at once belong to us." LETTERS, p. 39 THE IDEAL OF THE "MASTERS" "To meditate of the Higher Self is difficult. Seek then, the bridge, the Masters." WQJ Letters, p. 112 "The image of the Master is the best protection against lower influences; think of the Master as a living man within you." WQJ Letters, p. 164 "Our true progress lies in fidelity to Masters as ideals and facts." = =20 WQJ II p. 43 =09 "Masters--They are Atman and therefore the very law of Karma itself. They are in everything in life, and in every phase of our changing days and years." W Q J Letters, p. 68 INFLUENCE AND SUGGESTION "A man dies of a contagious disease; months after his death...a bit of clothing...may communicate the disease to a person more physiologically sensitive...And why should not an idea, a thought exercise the same influence? Thought is no less material nor objective than the imponderable any mysterious germs of various infectious diseases...Since the mind of a livin= g person can so influence another mind that the former can force the latter t= o think and believe whatever it will--in short, can psychologize that other mind, so can the thought of a person already dead.=20=20 Once generated and sent out that thought will live upon its own energy. It has become independent of the brain and mind which gave it birth. So long as its concentrated energy remain undissipated, it can act as a potential influence when brought into contact with the living brain and nervous syste= m of a person susceptibly predisposed. The unhealthy action thus provoked may lead the sensitive into a temporary insanity of self-delusion, that clouds the sense of his own individuality. The morbid action thus once set up, the whole floating group of the dead man's thoughts rushes into the sensitives brain, and he can give what seems test after test of the presence of the deceased..."=20 Mod. Panarion, p. 481 ---------------------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: mika=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:43 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Beyond Causal Explan. Since we can (according to Jerry) experience both nonduality and duality does that mean that we (whatever that means) _are_ both dual and nondual? For how else one could experience nonduality? =A0 -----=20 From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 04:31:26 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80204 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 12:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 12:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 12:31:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 12:30:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 12:30:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:30:29 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1649 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.49 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 83.85.214.69 Subject: Re: GOD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"to Cass and others http://www.hermes-trismegistos.com/en/agm.html Sorry I wrote a mistake in the Url here above is the right one> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > I think the Germans did an interesthing search > I have not time to read all but put it on cd > here is the link: > http://www.hermes-trismegistos.com/en/agm/html > They don't give all in English , other parts in German, but that is > no problem for me, for you I cannot know. > > In the toth hermes rules gives visualisation +vibration = > manifestation and on that, light as well as dark forces are working. > > Greetings Christina > > > > The gnostics who teach that the true God(the father) did not create > this world/universe > > and that we are trapped sparks here in our physical bodies and this > world/cosmos. > > > > Sounds like a good argument for an anti-christ. I believe his > followers say it is already incarnated and has already started its > work on deceiving the mindless into believing it is the coming of the > new christ. It's mission will unfold from the year 2010-2012 > onwards and sweep them up into his mortal/astral kingdom as part of > its collective. > > > > HPB teaches us that Christ will never incarnate again in the human > form, but is working through the ethereal planes. So any theosophist > knows that any Avatar in the flesh is not ours! > > > > Cass > > > > > >--- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Feb 01 05:09:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73139 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 13:09:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 13:09:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 13:09:22 -0000 Received: from [216.244.6.152] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CvxmM-0006QQ-Ga; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:09:16 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To; b=Y+iSDiM+xFg23hjpe/HRd+mhd7ZlPsLjNuFeIqmzbzKme+WXKDMlfBLSvBuZ1e5s; To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:08:55 -0800 Message-ID: <001f01c5085f$399ef040$2a06f4d8@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79801573eaf887c2ce922ff898ee17fc40350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.67 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 216.244.6.152 Subject: RE: re Hinayanists and Mahayanists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Feb 1 2005 You are right -- sometimes in writing there is too much of a "tone of settled conviction." I suffer from that I am afraid and try to tone it down. Must admit I am pretty convinced of the reasonableness of the presentation. And try to convey that.=20 However, if you study THEOSOPHY well, you may come to grasp how it merely describes and outlines the outlines of facts about our world, our life and the Universe. The details and complexities derived from and such perceptio= n and a specialized scientific examination of any set of correlative details -- are vast.=20 Some of are eager to find those who will take a hold and verify our findings. Asking questions is fine providing they are made strong building blocks for logical efforts that can be continued and which offer a reasonable approach to science, law and potential aims and goals -- impersonally and universally for all. It then begins to suggest (if we mentally are able to review and gather together all that is said) ways and means for self-improvement.=20 Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: Mauri=20 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:23 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: re Hinayanists and Mahayanists I wonder if some or lots of people (even=20 students of Theosophy ...) might tend to=20 habitually express themselves as if=20 "they know," in general, as if there=20 might be a point at which one's very=20 sanity/worldview might be more or less=20 directly related to their=20 habituated/monopolizing "knowing," in=20 general. While various kinds of=20 "knowings" might often be found to be=20 necessary for the maintenance of a=20 working model or worldview (obviuously=20 enough ...), surely that doesn't=20 necessarily have to mean that one should=20 always approach life as if one were=20 totally monopolized by "knowing" in=20 terms of a particular worldview or=20 model, as if nothing else might exist=20 that might be "relevant" in some sense=20 (exoterically or esoterically) ... To=20 me, the study of Theosophy is like an=20 invitation towards speculating about=20 "possible aspects of knowing" because,=20 as I tend to see it, unless such an=20 approach is taken, to some extent, seems=20 to me as if one might, at certain key stages, get somewhat=20 stuck at certain "too literal"=20 interpretations ... For me, speculation=20 seems to have function as a special sort=20 of lubricant in my Theosophical studies. Speculatively, Mauri PS Besides, unlike Gerald's occasional=20 "soap box" stance that, in turn, might=20 occasionally tend to make him feel as if=20 he might have to go "stand in the=20 proverbial corner," (to quote Gerald),=20 my "speculating" seems to make feel as=20 if the worst that might happen might be=20 if/when I might decide, for whater=20 reason, that I might've fallen off my=20 speculating box, and so might have to go=20 stand in my speculating corner. Aren't=20 speculating corners preferable to=20 proverbial corners, in a sense, up to a=20 point ... ^:-/ ... Not that some=20 proverbial corners might not be seen to=20 make sense in some sense/context but, in=20 my case, as far as I can figure, since=20 my "knowings" in general seem to be kind=20 of speculative particularly in=20 Theosophical matters (in contrast to,=20 say, "more experiential/exoteric=20 knowings"), what can I say ... From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Feb 01 06:11:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1196 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 14:11:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 14:11:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 14:11:07 -0000 Received: from [216.244.6.152] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvyk0-00083Y-AT; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:10:55 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To; b=JgVmtwIHSV2gBJJQEN1lNIJKxqqth1R70uUw9n6ZMiC1ICKAA3s5p6J/dwUrx7Ze; To: "'Theosophy Study List'" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 06:09:39 -0800 Message-ID: <005401c50867$d5b04580$2a06f4d8@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7984e1eb42e5e6c7195b7dc8b87ce5e1ac350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.67 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: X-Originating-IP: 216.244.6.152 Subject: RE: Beyond Causal Explan. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Feb 1 2005 Dear Friend: How about saying we are all the SOME in spirituality, but DIFFERENT in personality ? Look at this: THE COMPLEX NATURE OF MANAS Key, p. 183. =20=20=20 " ENQUIRER. But you wanted to tell me something of the essential nature o= f Manas, and of the relation in which the Skandhas of physical man stand to it?=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. It is this nature, mysterious, Protean, beyond any grasp, and almost shadowy in its correlations with the other principles, that is most difficult to realise, and still more so to explain.=20 =20=20=20 Manas is a "principle," and yet it is an "Entity" and individuality or Ego. He is a "God," and yet he is doomed to an endless cycle of incarnations, for each of which he is made responsible, and for each of which he has to suffer.=20 =20=20=20 All this seems as contradictory as it is puzzling; nevertheless, there are hundreds of people, even in Europe, who realise all this perfectly, for they comprehend the Ego not only in its integrity but in its many aspects. Finally, if I would make myself comprehensible, I must begin by the beginning and give you the genealogy of this Ego in a few lines.=20 =A0 ENQUIRER. Say on.=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. Try to imagine a "Spirit," a celestial Being, whether we call it by one name or another, divine in its essential nature, yet not pur= e enough to be one with the ALL, and having, in order to achieve this, to so purify its nature as to finally gain that goal. It can do so only by passin= g individually and personally, i. e., spiritually and physically, through every experience and feeling that exists in the manifold or differentiated Universe. It has, therefore, after having gained such experience in the lower kingdoms, and having ascended higher and still higher with every rung on the ladder of being, to pass through every experience on the human planes.=20 =20=20=20 In its very essence it is THOUGHT, and is, therefore, called in its plurality Manasa putra, "the Sons of the (Universal) mind." This individualised "Thought" is what we Theosophists call the real EGO, the thinking Entity imprisoned in a case of flesh and bones.=20 =20=20=20 This is surely a Spiritual Entity, not Matter, and such Entities are the incarnating EGOS that inform the bundle of animal matter called mankind, an= d whose names are Manasa or "Minds."=20 =20=20=20 But once imprisoned, or incarnate, their essence becomes dual: that is t= o say, the rays of the eternal divine Mind, considered as individual entities= , assume a two-fold attribute which is=20 =20=20=20 (a) their essential inherent characteristic, heaven-aspiring mind (highe= r Manas), and=20 =20=20=20 (b) the human quality of thinking, or animal cogitation, rationalised owing to the superiority of the human brain, the Kama-tending or lower Manas.=20 =20=20=20 One gravitates toward Buddhi, the other, tending downward, to the seat o= f passions and animal desires. The latter have no room in Devachan, nor can they associate with the divine triad which ascends as ONE into mental bliss= . Yet it is the Ego, the Manasic Entity, which is held responsible for all th= e sins of the lower attributes, just as a parent is answerable for the transgressions of his child, so long as the latter remains irresponsible.=20 =A0 ENQUIRER. Is this "child" the "personality"?=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. It is. When, therefore, it is stated that the "personality" dies with the body it does not state all. The body, which was only the objective symbol of Mr. A. or Mrs. B., fades away with all its material Skandhas, which are the visible expressions thereof. But all that which constituted during life the spiritual bundle of experiences, the noblest aspirations, undying affections, and unselfish nature of Mr. A. or Mrs. B. clings for the time of the Devachanic period to the EGO, which is identifie= d with the spiritual portion of that terrestrial Entity, now passed away out of sight.=20 =20=20=20 The ACTOR is so imbued with the role just played by him that he dreams o= f it during the whole Devachanic night, which vision continues till the hour strikes for him to return to the stage of life to enact another part.=20 Also: Key p. 91 THE SEPTENARY NATURE OF MAN.=20 ENQUIRER. Is it what we call Spirit and Soul, and the man of flesh?=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. It is not. That is the old Platonic division. Plato was an Initiate, and therefore could not go into forbidden details; but he who is acquainted with the archaic doctrine finds the seven in Plato's various combinations of Soul and Spirit. He regarded man as constituted of two part= s -- one eternal, formed of the same essence as the Absoluteness, the other mortal and corruptible, deriving its constituent parts from the minor "created" Gods. Man is composed, he shows, of (1) A mortal 91 =20=20=20 body, (2) An immortal principle, and (3) A "separate mortal kind of Soul." It is that which we respectively call the physical man, the Spiritua= l Soul or Spirit, and the animal Soul (the Nous and psuche). This is the division adopted by Paul, another Initiate, who maintains that there is a psychical body which is sown in the corruptible (astral soul or body), and = a spiritual body that is raised in incorruptible substance. Even James (iii. 15) corroborates the same by saying that the "wisdom" (of our lower soul) descendeth not from the above, but is terrestrial ("psychical," "demoniacal," vide Greek text); while the other is heavenly wisdom. Now so plain is it that Plato and even Pythagoras, while speaking but of three "principles," give them seven separate functions, in their various combinations, that if we contrast our teachings this will become quite plain. Let us take a cursory view of these seven aspects by drawing two tables.=20 =A0 THEOSOPHICAL DIVISION =A0 LOWER QUATERNARY SANSCRIT TERMS EXOTERIC MEANING EXPLANATORY a. Rupa, or Sthula-Sarira =A0=20 b. Prana =20 c. Linga Sharira =A0=20 d. Kama rupa=20 =A0 ---------------------------------------- a. Physical body =A0=20 b. Life, or Vital principle =A0=20 c. Astral body =A0=20 d. The seat of animal desires and passions=20 ----------------------------------------------------- a. Is the vehicle of all the other "principles" during life. =A0=20 b. Necessary only to a, c, d, and the functions of the lower Manas, which embrace all those limited to the (physical) brain. =A0=20 c. The Double, the phantom body. =A0=20 d. This is the centre of the animal man, where lies the line of demarcation which separates the mortal man from the immortal entity.=20 =A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20=20=20 =A0THE UPPER IMPERISHABLE TRIAD. =20=20=20 =20=20=20 SANSCRIT TERMS EXOTERIC MEANING EXPLANATORY e. Manas=AF a dual principle in its functions. =A0=20 f. =A0Buddhi=A0=20 =20 g. =A0Atma=20 --------------------------------------------- =A0=20 e. Mind, Intelligence: which is the higher=A0=20 human mind, whose light, or radiation=20 =A0links the MONAD, for the lifetime, to the =A0mortal man.=20 ----------------------------------------- =A0=20 f. The Spiritual Soul=20 ------------------------------------------ =A0=20 g. Spirit=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D e. The future state and the =A0Karmic destiny of man depend on whether Manas gravitates more downward to Kama rupa, the seat of =A0the animal passions, or up- wards to Buddhi, the Spiritual Ego. In the latter case, the higher con- sciousness of the individual =A0Spiritual aspirations of mind (Manas), assimilating Buddhi, are absorbed by it and form the Ego, which =A0goes into Devachanic =A0bliss.* =A0=20 f. The vehicle of pure universal spirit. =A0=20 g. One with the Absolute, as its radiation.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0Now what does Plato teach? He speaks of the interior man as constituted = of two parts=AF one immutable and always the same, formed of the same substanc= e as Deity, and the other mortal and corruptible. These "two parts" are found in our upper Triad, and the lower Quaternary (vide Table). He explains that when the Soul, psuche, "allies herself to the Nous =20=20=20 *In Mr. Sinnett's "Esoteric Buddhism" d, e, and f, are respectively called the Animal, the Human, and the Spiritual Souls, which answers as well. Though the principles in Esoteric Buddhism are numbered, this is, strictly speaking, useless. The dual Monad alone (Atma-Buddhi) is susceptible of being thought of as the two highest numbers (the 6th and 7th). As to all others, since that "principle" only which is predominant in man has to be considered as the first and foremost, no numeration is possible as a genera= l rule. In some men it is the higher Intelligence (Manas or the 5th) which dominates the rest; in others the Animal Soul (Kama-rupa) that reigns supreme, exhibiting the most bestial instincts, etc. (divine spirit or substance)*, she does everything aright and felicitously"; but the case is otherwise when she attaches herself to Anoia, (folly, or the irrational animal Soul). Here, then, we have Manas (or the Soul in general) in its two aspects: when attaching itself to Anoia (our Kama rupa, or the "Animal Soul= " in "Esoteric Buddhism,") it runs towards entire annihilation, as far as the personal Ego is concerned; when allying itself to the Nous (Atma-Buddhi) it merges into the immortal, imperishable Ego, and then its spiritual consciousness of the personal that was, becomes immortal.=20 =A0 THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT=20 ENQUIRER. Do you really teach, as you are accused of doing by some Spiritualists and French Spiritists, the annihilation of every personality?= =20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. We do not. But as this question of the duality=AF the individuality of the Divine Ego, and the personality of the human animal=AF involves that of the possibility of the real immortal Ego appearing in Seance rooms as a "materialised spirit," which we deny as already explained= , our opponents have started the nonsensical charge. =A0 *=A0Paul calls Plato's Nous "Spirit"; but as this spirit is "substanc= e," then, of course, Buddhi and not Atma is meant, as the latter cannot philosophically be called "substance" under any circumstance. We include Atma among the human "principles" in order not to create additional confusion. In reality it is no "human" but the universal absolute principle of which Buddhi, the Soul-Spirit, is the carrier. =A0 =A0ENQUIRER. You have just spoken of psuche running towards its entire annihilation if it attaches itself to Anoia. What did Plato, and do you mea= n by this?=20 =A0 THEOSOPHIST. The entire annihilation of the personal consciousness, as a= n exceptional and rare case, I think. The general and almost invariable rule is the merging of the personal into the individual or immortal consciousnes= s of the Ego, a transformation or a divine transfiguration, and the entire annihilation only of the lower quaternary . Would you expect the man of flesh, or the temporary personality, his shadow, the "astral," his animal instincts and even physical life, to survive with the "spiritual EGO" and become sempiternal? Naturally all this ceases to exist, either at, or soon after corporeal death. It becomes in time entirely disintegrated and disappears from view, being annihilated as a whole. " ----------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: M. Sufilight=20=20 Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:54 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Beyond Causal Explan. My views are =A0 I would rather say, that we are all different. We have developed to different levels of knowledge and wisdom of the spiritual heart. Some think they know, that what others talk about is below them. Others kno= w it. And yet others do not know it - even if they think they do. =A0 What some of us needs right now in our life so to make spiritual progress i= s not what another group needs. There is more than a few levels of spirituality. =A0 And what some of you think you need is not what you need, but what you want or desire. =A0 The Teacher knows what you need spiritually. And it is quite often not what you think it is. =A0 Some of you think that you are real spiritual Teachers. Some of you know, that you are not. Some of you do not realise how much you delude yourselves. =A0 CUT From mhart@idirect.ca Tue Feb 01 06:41:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77022 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 14:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 14:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gozer.look.ca) (207.136.80.10) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 14:41:20 -0000 Received: from [199.243.58.121] (helo=idirect.ca) by gozer.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1CvzDT-0000qa-2J for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:41:19 +0000 Message-ID: <41FF963C.4040502@idirect.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:46:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <001f01c5085f$399ef040$2a06f4d8@DALLAS> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on omega.look.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.0 required=9.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.1 (built Tue Feb 24 05:09:27 GMT 2004) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.136.80.10 From: Mauri Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: re Hinayanists and Mahayanists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn W.Dallas TenBroeck wrote: > Feb 1 2005 > > You are right -- sometimes in writing there is too much of a "tone of > settled conviction." I suffer from that I am afraid and try to tone it > down. Must admit I am pretty convinced of the reasonableness of the > presentation. And try to convey that. > > However, if you study THEOSOPHY well, you may come to grasp how it merely > describes and outlines the outlines of facts about our world, our life and > the Universe. The details and complexities derived from and such perception > and a specialized scientific examination of any set of correlative details > -- are vast. > > Some of are eager to find those who will take a hold and verify our > findings. Asking questions is fine providing they are made strong building > blocks for logical efforts that can be continued and which offer a > reasonable approach to science, law and potential aims and goals -- > impersonally and universally for all. > > It then begins to suggest (if we mentally are able to review and gather > together all that is said) ways and means for self-improvement. > > Dallas I tend to speculatively agree, in a sense, with your comments, Dallas. Speculatively, Mauri From perrycoles@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 07:09:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: perrycoles@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17463 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 15:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 15:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 15:09:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 15:08:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 15:08:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:08:07 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3997 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.47 From: "Perry Coles" X-Originating-IP: 203.59.213.122 Subject: Re: Theos-World Checked by the Master X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=93736069 X-Yahoo-Profile: perrycoles Hi Steve, I remember in Elaine Pagel's book on the Gnostics gospels she pointed out how the Gnostics did not put much importance on the historical Jesus but rather on a personal revelation of the gnosis. This of course infuriated the Bishops and clergy as it put them out of a job if you don't need sacraments and apostolic succession you loose your power over the people. Heres a quote from the book `The Gnostic Gospels' by Elaine Pagels: "Whatever we think of the historicity of the orthodox account, we can admire its ingenuity. For this theory - that all authority derives from certain apostle's experience of the resurrected Christ, an experience now closed forever - bears enormous implications for the political structure of the community. First, . . . it restricts the circle of leadership to a small band of persons whose members stand in a position of incontestable authority. Second, it suggest that only the apostles had the right to ordain future leaders as their successors. . . . Any potential leader of the community would have to derive, or claim to derive, authority from the same apostles. Yet, according to the orthodox view, none can ever claim to equal their authority - much less challenge it. What the apostles experienced and attested their successors cannot verify for themselves; instead, they must only believe, protect, and hand down to future generations the apostles' testimony. This theory gained extraordinary success: for nearly 2,000 years, orthodox Christians have accepted the view that the apostles alone held definitive religious authority, and that their only legitimate heirs are priests and bishops, who trace their ordination back to that same apostolic succession. . . . But the gnostic Christians rejected Luke's theory. Some gnostics called the literal view of resurrection the "faith of fools." " pages 10 - 11 And from Isis Unveiled : "An outcry has just been made in England over the discovery that Anglican priests are largely introducing auricular confession and granting absolution after enforcing penances. ... The bishop, questioned, points to Matthew xvi, 19, for the source of his authority to bind and loose on earth those who are to be blessed or damned in heaven; and to the apostolic succession for proof of its transmission from Simon Bar-jona to himself. The present volumes have been written to small purpose if they have not shown, "1, that Jesus, the Christ-God, is a myth concocted two centuries after the real Hebrew Jesus died; "2, that, therefore, he never had any authority to give Peter, or anyone else, plenary power; "3, that even if he had given such authority' the word Petra (rock) referred to the revealed truths of the Petroma, not to him who thrice denied him; and that besides, the apostolic succession is a gross and palpable fraud; "4, that Gospel according to Matthew is a fabrication based upon a wholly different manuscript." (Isis Unveiled II, p. 544) I think HPB leant towards the Gnostic side. Perry --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "stevestubbs" wrote: > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Perry Coles" > wrote: > > I think it was Pope "Innocent" that said something like 'this > > myth of Christ has served us well' > > It was pope Leo X and thr quote is: > > "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" > > The source is Barbara Walker, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and > Secrets. San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1983, p. 471. Taylor renders > this: "It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been > to us." (Robert Taylor, The Diegesis, 1860, p. 35n.) Leo X's real > name was Giovanni de Medici, He became pope when his predecessor > Julius II was murdered in 1513 and exploited the Catholic Church for > his personal gain until his own murder in 1521. In between murders > Giovanni was the teacher of morals to the Christian world. Methinks > he did not know enough to teach. From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Feb 01 07:58:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4864 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id r.1ac.30f3bfe3 (4206) for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:57:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1ac.30f3bfe3.2f3100e6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:57:26 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.206 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World GOD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 1/31/05 11:23:49 PM Central Standard Time, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: << Nice self promotion! >> Yes, I promoted myself. Some years ago an evangelist type person was being interviewed on a local xtian television station. During the course of the interview he held up a copy of one of my books and said, "If the author of this is not an agent of the Antichrist, I don't know who is!" Well, of course I was offended. I wanted top billing! Agent indeed! Chuck the Heretic From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Tue Feb 01 08:48:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24366 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 16:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 16:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 16:48:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 16:48:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2005 16:48:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:48:07 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 781 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.44 From: "kpauljohnson" X-Originating-IP: 166.67.150.249 Subject: The Lost Land of Lemuria (new book from U. of California Press) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729 X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson Hey, I learned of this one via amazon because it cites me on Cayce, but it turns out to have much more about HPB, devoting 16 pages to the "Theosophical Lemuria." Final para of that section: Theosophy's innovation lay in bringing occult technologies of clairvoyance and communication with other-worldly beings-- abilities that were lost with the onset of disenchanted modernity-- to bear upon the cosmic history of the vanished worlds of the earth's past, a history that had hitherto been told only from incomplete and mute material remains. That this innovation was to prove very productive is clear when we turn to the other twentieth century adventures of Lemuria in the occult imaginary.(p. 71) Here's a link: http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10129.html Paul From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Feb 01 08:48:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25321 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 16:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 16:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 16:48:55 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cw1Cc-0000Vy-16 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:48:34 -0500 Message-ID: <41FFB2E9.40905@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:48:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <004a01c5084a$a640e4c0$0301010a@versus> In-Reply-To: <004a01c5084a$a640e4c0$0301010a@versus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba4b207efd79fc99b67809cd05fec1f6e22601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.66 From: Bart Lidofsky X-Originating-IP: 141.153.238.175 Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 krishtar wrote: > Just one more question, to end > the subject: Is In USA necessary an ADSL modem to have a fast > connection? I make my connections using a router-modem ADSL between > my PC and the telephone ordinary line. My doubt is if the information > I was sent is a hoax or I am being , as usual, exploited by the > telephone company... my bills are very high...but the 300 KBP/s > speed is good. In order to have ANY connection, you need something that will translate the signals being sent to something your computer can understand. Bart From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Feb 01 08:50:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31173 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 16:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 16:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 16:50:51 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cw1Eo-00024h-Mg for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:50:50 -0500 Message-ID: <41FFB372.4030207@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:50:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <20050201110451.90027.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050201110451.90027.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba4b207efd79fc99b680ee31f6cb0fa7a22601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.66 From: Bart Lidofsky X-Originating-IP: 141.153.238.175 Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Erica Letzerich wrote: > I friend of mine told me that here there is a way to get a fast > connection with normal moden, but I was not interested as already I > have ADSL, I will ask him and after I will send you a private e-mail. There are systems which allow you to use a modem more efficiently than the default. But that's not quite the same thing as having a faster connection. Bart From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Tue Feb 01 09:05:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1447 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 17:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 17:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.164) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 17:05:32 -0000 Received: from versus (201-003-220-170.fnsce7005.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.3.220.170]) by smtp3.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F01A233EBE for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:04:59 -0200 (BRST) Message-ID: <003601c5087f$cada4c60$0301010a@versus> To: References: <20050201110451.90027.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> <41FFB372.4030207@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:02:20 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.164 From: "krishtar" Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bart Do you have a fast connection using your normal dial-up connection? I am raising this subject because to keep my ADSL it is too expensive here in my country. And someone told me that in many places mainly in the USA there is no need for a ADSL, the right setup and the right modem makes the rest. True or fiction... K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart Lidofsky To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections doubt Eldon Erica Letzerich wrote: > I friend of mine told me that here there is a way to get a fast > connection with normal moden, but I was not interested as already I > have ADSL, I will ask him and after I will send you a private e-mail. There are systems which allow you to use a modem more efficiently than the default. But that's not quite the same thing as having a faster connection. Bart Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Feb 01 09:09:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5852 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 17:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 17:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 17:08:57 -0000 Received: from [141.153.238.175] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cw1WK-0003t3-P8 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: <41FFB7B0.5070409@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:09:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <004e01c507b6$bb16c0c0$0301010a@versus> In-Reply-To: <004e01c507b6$bb16c0c0$0301010a@versus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba4b207efd79fc99b664343e55b09cbdb0af78f7fbf31ba7be350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 209.86.89.66 From: Bart Lidofsky X-Originating-IP: 141.153.238.175 Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 krishtar wrote: > There is an e-mail going around in my country with the statement that > internet speed connections( ranging from from 156 to 512 Kbp/s ) is > worldwide possible using the conventional line, and in our country > if you need a fast internet connection you have to buy an ADLS Modem > ( about 100,00 US$ ) and pay an extra fee of 20 - 100 US$ for the > connection plus a 10-30,00 US$ for the provider per month.( the price > of the "special line" and the provider´s price varies depending on > the speed) My question is:You, who live ouside Brasil , and have a > fast internet need or do not need special modem and rates? All > included in the telephone´s monthly bill. It is a steal! My telephone > bills are killing me!!! Help! I went back to this email, to answer your question more directly. There are basically three kinds of high speed internet connections for homes (not requiring special lines being installed into the home). One, DSL/ADSL (the difference between DSL and ADSL is that in DSL, the speed is the same in both directions; in ADSL, the uplink is slower than the downlink), can be transmitted over normal phone lines. The basic price ranges from $30-$50/month, depending on a number of factors (for example, the more expensive plans allow you to do things like run servers from your home computer, or allow you to connect by dial-up line when you're not at home). There are also cable modems, for which you need to have television cable wired up to your house. With that, you are actually connected to a local area network with other subscribers in your area. Your speed is potentially higher than DSL, but depends on how many others are actively using the same line at the moment. You also need to increase the level or protection on your computer, because your fellow subscribers can access your computer through the LAN, especially if you have multiple computers set up in your home. Finally, to those who can't get access to either (due to the equipment not being set up by the phone or cable companies), there is satellite access. That can be had almost anywhere in the world. Essentially, you have a regular dial-up connection. But, when you request a page, instead of being sent via the phone line, it is sent by a satellite signal. This means you have high-speed downlinks, and low-speed uplinks. This is usually the most expensive solution, and therefore only used as a last resort (for example, where my brother lives in South Burlington, Vermont, satellite is the only available high-speed service). Bart From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Tue Feb 01 09:33:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28560 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 17:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 17:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.180) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 17:33:45 -0000 Received: from versus (201-003-220-170.fnsce7005.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.3.220.170]) by smtp4.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7926633E98 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:33:42 -0200 (BRST) Message-ID: <005b01c50883$cda7ee80$0301010a@versus> To: References: <004e01c507b6$bb16c0c0$0301010a@versus> <41FFB7B0.5070409@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:31:02 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.180 From: "krishtar" Subject: Re: Theos-World Fw: doubt about modems and connections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Bart, that was just plain and exactly what I wanted to know. K ----- Original Message