From alpha@dircon.co.uk Sat May 01 02:09:34 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: alpha@dircon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49063 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 09:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 09:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost3.dircon.co.uk) (194.112.32.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 09:09:33 -0000 Received: from default (th-en134-185.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.53.185]) by mailhost3.dircon.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 547D82F428F for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 10:09:27 +0100 (BST) To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:14:07 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000001c42e2b$556c2a40$8e1ff4d8@DALLAS> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.112.32.67 From: "Tony" Subject: RE: Theos-World [bn-study] Re: Divine Wind X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=42271540 X-Yahoo-Profile: univ7x7 Dallas Believing in peace is rather different to being peaceful. Can CONCIENTIOUS OBJECTION (you even put it in capitals) be seen as a peaceful act if it causes others to torture and kill as you are stating? It is difficult to see the TRUE sgae acting in that way. <<>> But Truth (Karma) can and does hurt. Does the sage refuse to hurt? Surely he isn't in that kind of arena (of hurting or not hurting) and would be a co-worker with nature. Working in line with Truth. Soldiers fighting in wars are made up of all kinds of people, including good ones, to put it in that way. And in the heat of battle they are capable of great courage and UNSELFISH acts. It would be difficult to draw the conclusion, which you appear to make by your statement, that CONCIENTIOUS OBJECTION is somehow better or more peaceful or more right. Is there a different way to approach it? Tony -----Original Message----- From: Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net] Sent: 29 April 2004 9:48 pm To: AA-BNStudy Subject: RE: Theos-World [bn-study] Re: Divine Wind Thursday, April 29, 2004 Dear A: There are as I see it in THEOSOPHY two laws operating: 1. Karma of the individual which faces him with the decision to kill or not to kill. Some who believe in peace have adopted "CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION and have taken the subsequent martyrdom of ostracism, torture or worse -- even death. 2 All decisions are choices and even "going with the flow" does not relieve anyone from Karmic consequences. The strength we need to gain is that which refuses to hurt or harm anyone no matter hat the provocation. Best wishes, Dallas From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 02:15:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6805 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 09:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 09:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 09:15:09 -0000 Received: from pool0080.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.80] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BJqaN-0002Zr-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 02:15:04 -0700 To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 02:14:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c42f5c$b539d760$508cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e969d44ae537a146ce7f46ec16749fbe350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World another example of a virus-infected message X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Friday, April 30, 2004 5 p m=20 Dear Eldon: I never sent such a message I am immediately putting the computer under an anti-virus scan. Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 7:12 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World another example of a virus-infected message This sounds like another virus message. If you open the attached file, you'll get infected with the virus, unless your anti-virus program has already detected and deleted the file. Any legitimate request to update account information is never sent by a company as an attached file for someone to open, nor as a link in the email to click on (which would take someone to a counterfeit website seeking to gather personal information about them in order to use that information to rob them). -- Eldon -----Original Message----- From: dalval14@earthlink.net [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:03 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World E-mail account security warning. Hello user of Yahoogroups.com e-mail server, Our main mailing server will be temporary unavaible for next two days,=20 to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service. Further details can be obtained from attached file. For security reasons attached file is password protected. The password is "78038". Kind regards, The Yahoogroups.com team http://www.yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 02:15:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85016 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 09:15:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 09:15:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 09:15:10 -0000 Received: from pool0080.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.80] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BJqaT-0002Zr-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 02:15:09 -0700 To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 02:14:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c42f5c$bb218790$508cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d4543d401706c0c56ba44c844a2f22ea350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World HPB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Friday, April 30, 2004 Dear Terrie: Sent you an answer a few moments ago. Did you receive it? Check your computer -- SCAN WITH ANTI-VIRUS as I WAS JUST WARNED IT MIGHT CONTAIN A VIRUS. DAL Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: thalprin [mailto:thalprin@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:10 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB Dear Dal, Yes, this does interest me - I think conversation is good cuz it's a=20 natural a/o specifics means of info gathering/speaking one's mind. The rap is right on, and, it exactly illustrates some important=20 issues eye think. The thang about the Conque. is fascinating. My personal opinion is=20 that that's correct - something happened cuzof those folks above and=20 beyond what one might label normal black ops. I just feel it, in me=20 gut, for instance, I can't go to LA without getting creeped out soon=20 as eye start seeing all those Spanard names -and- I got a thang about=20 Mexico (same thang) and South America a/o my impression is that it=20 all roots down to something that happened/went wrong in Russia a long=20 time ago (nope, don't exactly know what) due in greatest parts to that Spanard/S.A. influence. More wacky e-mail?! Unfortunately, yeah, it looks to be expectable,=20 not a pretty picture is it - "the band plays on," ah, so sad.=20=20=20 Myself, I had an interesting question posed to me earlier this week,=20 by this gal who's been busy wanting/trying to mainstream me - UV want=20 me, don't ya know! Anyway, she tell me this story about her grandpa=20 (worked in a V.A. hospital, friend of Jackson Pollack), and then she=20 ask: So, which would you rather be Jackson Pollack or my grandpa who=20 worked at the V.A. hospital? It's an interesting question isn't it,=20 and, perhaps, yes, just as interesting a statement to make.=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 02:15:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6963 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 09:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 09:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 09:15:12 -0000 Received: from pool0080.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.80] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BJqaV-0002Zr-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 02:15:11 -0700 To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 02:14:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c42f5c$bfad0320$508cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d4543d401706c0c50acf30777dc1d307350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World HPB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Friday, April 30, 2004 Dear T. I am not sure I understand the observation. Can you simplify for me? D Dallas -------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: thalprin [mailto:thalprin@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:35 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" wrote: > Dear Dal, >=20 > Yes, this does interest me - I think conversation is good cuz it's=20 a=20 > natural a/o specifics means of info gathering/speaking one's mind. >=20 > The rap is right on, and, it exactly illustrates some important > issues eye think. >=20 > The thang about the Conque. is fascinating. My personal opinion is=20 > that that's correct - something happened cuzof those folks above=20 and=20 > beyond what one might label normal black ops. I just feel it, in=20 me=20 > gut, for instance, I can't go to LA without getting creeped out soon=20 > as eye start seeing all those Spanard names -and- I got a thang about=20 > Mexico (same thang) and South America a/o my impression is that it=20 > all roots down to something that happened/went wrong in Russia a=20 long=20 > time ago (nope, don't exactly know what) due in greatest parts to=20 > that Spanard/S.A. influence. It's interesting isn't it - outta the whole of a world with so much=20 backwards-life going on, this little strip of land between LA and somewear in S.A. feels to me -what- like, perhaps, the creepiest=20 thang of all, bizarre.=20 >=20 > More wacky e-mail?! Unfortunately, yeah, it looks to be=20 expectable,=20 > not a pretty picture is it - "the band plays on," ah, so sad. >=20 >=20 > Myself, I had an interesting question posed to me earlier this=20 week,=20 > by this gal who's been busy wanting/trying to mainstream me - UV=20 want=20 > me, don't ya know! Anyway, she tell me this story about her=20 grandpa=20 > (worked in a V.A. hospital, friend of Jackson Pollack), and then=20 she=20 > ask: So, which would you rather be Jackson Pollack or my grandpa=20 who=20 > worked at the V.A. hospital? It's an interesting question isn't=20 it,=20 > and, perhaps, yes, just as interesting a statement to make. From andra.ara@juno.com Sat May 01 03:28:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: andra.ara@juno.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45184 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 10:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 10:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tim-limnjrkjb03) (220.185.89.49) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 10:26:59 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 18:33:59 -0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 220.185.89.49 From: andra.ara@juno.com Subject: Hokki =) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=139708677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking forward for a response :P password -- 34222 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 05:11:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26682 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 12:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 12:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 12:11:51 -0000 Received: from pool0080.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.80] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BJtLH-0004p7-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 05:11:40 -0700 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 05:11:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c42f75$68306e20$508cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7926a2be582a1940840b14669067e0b1fb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World [bn-study] Re: Divine Wind X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Saturday, May 01, 2004 Dear Tony: I have no "fight" with deep, heat-felt patriotism. Also I agree that "TRUTH hurts." But I would add: Only the personal selfish fearful and cowardly physical man feels and fears hurt.. The "Inner God" does not. For it is one with the Universal God. Is this, oh, so difficult to grasp?=20 I do believe that reincarnation is a fact and in effect the SPIRIT / SOUL has no "country" other than the world, and its UNIVERSE. LAW embraces all. But, do we not, and can we not also say: GOD is the UNIVERSE ?=20 As I see it: We are humans -- "minds under development" -- at this stage and time. The Universe and our world is our "school." Each incarnation is a "day" spent in learning. The end result is a "divine man" at peace with all beings.=20 The immortal Mind-Soul has reincarnated for endless centuries, aeons perhaps, in various places -- and the same basic (but temporary - for a life-time) loyalties to family, community and Nation (if any) not to mention "religion," are always in place.=20=20 It has always seemed to me that some aspects of these conditions, from life to life, are temporary -- an overlay temporarily derived from location, religion, education, era, country, geography, and the pressures of family, and of those "societies" -- into which we are successively born.=20=20 It might appall us to discover what our past has been [see, for example, HPB's KARMIC VISIONS.] . So, personally, I declare for peace and non-violence. It is my choice. Likewise if I choose to oppose tyranny and violence offered to the weak and the poor, I accept the karma for that. Especially so, when such events are in front of me. If injustice, tyranny, violence, etc., are seen in front of me, I have to assume that I am karmically involved and must then choose to act as best as I can. All choices of any kind are of course my own. (Whether considered by others selfish or unselfish.) Personally, I have always faced the oppressor and demanded peace, and, have always done this not caring for "consequences."=20 I have never felt comfortable with an attitude such as is now inculcated on youth in most if not in every country (and I have been educated in several, so I have seen this at first hand.) : "My country, right or wrong."=20=20 Something lacks there. I sense (and I may be wrong) that the "country" exerts a power (through legislation and 'peer-pressure') it has no right to: to tell me what to do, and when to do it -- extending up to the level of killing, maiming and thus torturing anonymous and unknown (possibly quite innocent) persons, and subsequently, of placing their families in unknown but dire circumstances. I ask myself: "Who profits from such actions?" "Who thinks about such things?" I realise that there can be endless argument over this -- as to whether it is personal, impersonal, self-serving, cowardly, theosophical, or not -- but I, for one, declare for the Buddha's attitude: "Kill not for pity's sake unless ye stay the meanest thing upon its upward way." And if this means self-immolation, then so be it. Some of the JATAKA TALES will be found to illustrate this. I ask you (to emphasize my reasoning): Can you respect, honor and obey anyone who would kill or torture, face to face, another? Can one respect the "word of honor" of a robber, a thief, an abductor, a molester, a brigand, etc...=20 They are where they are, and, as they are what they have made themselves, because of hundreds of promises violated, any offer of peace and mitigation of pain from such persons is questionable -- they have NO HONOR and NO LOYALTY. Can they be trusted to carry out their part of the bargain?=20 When cornered, or desirous of our compliance, they play upon our sense of honor to achieve their desires -- regardless of any outcome except benefit to themselves as they see it. And when free, what do they then do ?=20 Now this is quite a declaration, and I can only hope to be understood.=20=20 No I would not ask another to assume my burdens, or to stand in danger on my behalf. But that is a decision that I refuse to have made for me.=20 Best wishes,=20 Dallas PS Also consider this pleae: The world is round and, considered historically, political boundaries today are as arbitrary as ever.=20=20 If we "return and reincarnate," then we can only say we rent a living area, including a body, and also a family, and various other responsibilities. Our sense of "ownership," of property, home, pssessions, even a "family,":are often indefinite responsibilities and duties, since death severs all such questions. These are the varous ways thorgh which Karma (the LAW) works to educate us. As I see it it does not abridge freedomne, but, rather, it enhances it so that all may shar in it. The possibility of sharing is what is important. None of us are entirely islated. And yes, we have debts. As individuals (of a degree of honor only known intimately by ourselves). I would say, we need to discharge those debts (in my case, they are those which I alone can determine, and -- take theKarma for such decisons) to the utmost.=20=20 I can see where this leads to definitions involving the practice of practical virtue, and the definition of vice and untruth. But I can only say that reincarnation lends a dimension of importance to all such decisions, and, it ought to be carefully considered.=20 I might put it in another way:=20=20 Either we live in a universe, and a world ,where LAW prevails -- or we do not. In my opinion, those UNIVERSAL laws are impersonal, impartial and act without regard to personalities and individual preferences. The "King and the pauper" are treated alike by THE LAW. There are no "privileges" other than honesty and rectitude in all matters -- if we conceive (as the law of most, if not every country now does) that everyone is on a common level, and if, in addtion, the student of Theosopnhy considers him / her an immortal SOUL (MONAD), and a brother immortal, then, we (and they) will be called to answer for all our decisions by THE LAW. Either the UNIVERSE is GOD in fact, or it (and the concept of a "God") is a sham -- a Maya, and a rather poor and shameful one. What does omnipresence, oniscience and omnipotence really imply -- as godlike attributes in human practice? I hopd that our mind-power are a portion of our own inherent "Godhood" -- since GOD is everywhere IT (or He), wold be closest to us insideourselves. We rarely think of Jesus' saying: " Know ye not ye are Gods?"=20=20 -- John 10, 34-5.=20 How can LAW (and UNIVERSAL DEITY) work, unless there is rigid and absolute JUSTICE [No selfish absolution where the victims receives no redress from those who produced pain and suffering for him and his family.] ? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Tony Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 2:14 AM To:=20 Subject: [bn-study] Re: Divine Wind Dallas Believing in peace is rather different to being peaceful.=20=20 Can CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION (you even put it in capitals)=20 be seen as a peaceful act if it causes others to torture and kill as=20 you are stating? It is difficult to see the TRUE sage acting in that way. <<>>=20=20=20 But Truth (Karma) can and does hurt.=20=20 Does the sage refuse to hurt? Surely he isn't in that kind of arena (of hurting or not hurting) and would be a co-worker with nature. Working in line with Truth. Soldiers fighting in wars are made up of all kinds of people, including good ones, to put it in that way. And in the heat of battle they are capable of great courage and UNSELFISH acts. It would be difficult to draw the conclusion, which you appear to make by your statement, that CONCIENTIOUS OBJECTION is somehow better or more peaceful or more right.=20=20 Is there a different way to approach it? Tony -----Original Message----- From: Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net] Sent: 29 April 2004 9:48 pm To: AA-BNStudy Subject: RE: Theos-World [bn-study] Re: Divine Wind Thursday, April 29, 2004 Dear A: There are as I see it in THEOSOPHY two laws operating: 1. Karma of the individual which faces him with the decision to kill or not to kill. Some who believe in peace have adopted "CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION and have taken the subsequent martyrdom of ostracism, torture or worse -- even death. 2 All decisions are choices and even "going with the flow" does not relieve anyone from Karmic consequences. The strength we need to gain is that which refuses to hurt or harm anyone no matter hat the provocation. Best wishes, Dallas From netemara888@yahoo.com Sat May 01 07:43:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61434 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 14:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 14:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 14:43:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2004 14:43:33 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:43:32 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004c01c42eeb$f2c4ea00$0301010a@versus> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1069 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 163.179.156.142 Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" =20 wrote: > Netemara > Can=B4t you please reveal this us by yourself? > You used to claim that you are her reincarnation... ; ) > I also heard that Elvis had got HPB books in his private room. >=20 > K > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: netemara888=20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:58 PM > Subject: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... >=20 >=20 > about HPB's influence on Einstein and other physicists. Does=20 anybody=20 > have any ready references for this. I know Sylvia Cranston is=20 where I=20 > read this. How reliable is this anyway? >=20 > Netemara >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 I have an entire web log with same. But he seems to want book=20 references. The only one I know of came from Cranston. DO you know=20 of any others? HPB is the muse for all physicists period. But that may not be=20 enough proof for NS. You heard it from the horse's mouth. Netemara >=20=20=20=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From netemara888@yahoo.com Sat May 01 07:44:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38228 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 14:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 14:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 14:44:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2004 14:44:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:44:44 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 320 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.69 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 163.179.156.142 Subject: Re: Netemara, X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosophy_talks_truth/ > > What about the World Watch Prophesy Net yahoo group? You know I started that group and then did no work on it and finally deleted it. I have been doing that on TTT anyway. Thanks Net From fdavis@texas.net Sat May 01 07:48:04 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: fdavis@texas.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35105 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 14:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 14:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail4.txucom.net) (207.70.175.17) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 14:48:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 29847 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 14:47:51 -0000 Received: from 216-188-231-12.dyn.grandenetworks.net (HELO hppav) ([216.188.231.12]) (envelope-sender ) by mail4.txucom.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 May 2004 14:47:51 -0000 To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:47:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.70.175.17 From: "Fred Davis" Subject: RE: Theos-World E-mail account security warning. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68635532 X-Yahoo-Profile: davisfa There is no attached file ??? -----Original Message----- From: dalval14@earthlink.net [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World E-mail account security warning. Hello user of Yahoogroups.com e-mail server, Our main mailing server will be temporary unavaible for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service. Further details can be obtained from attached file. For security reasons attached file is password protected. The password is "78038". Kind regards, The Yahoogroups.com team http://www.yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat May 01 12:28:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50850 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 19:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 19:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 19:28:52 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.db.95b3888 (3850) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 15:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:28:45 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.208 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 04/30/04 1:59:25 PM, netemara888@yahoo.com writes: >about HPB's influence on Einstein and other physicists. Does anybody >have any ready references for this. I know Sylvia Cranston is where I >read this. How reliable is this anyway? >Netemara Try... http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/einstein.html From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat May 01 13:29:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27856 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 20:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 20:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 20:29:16 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.92.9b79cbd (3850) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92.9b79cbd.2dc561b4@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:25:24 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.7 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Science and Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 04/30/04 6:26:46 PM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: >leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >> The reason why current scientific paradigms eliminate consciousness (which >> isn't an "element" of anything) is that they can't imagine or understated >> what it is and where it originates from. It's not "hard to objectively measure >> anything involving it"... It's impossible. > > Well, yes. I was making an understatement of the obvious. Like, "My >father was dead, which made it hard for him to attend my wedding." > > Bart Thanks for catching the typo (before I pasted that spell checked paragraph in my book manuscript. :-) Sorry about that old man. I understand how hard it is to lift a lid off a coffin from the inside. I hope he enjoyed the wedding when he finally got there. Leon From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat May 01 13:47:40 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32069 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 20:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 20:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 20:47:40 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.113.322213f6 (3850) for ; Sat, 1 May 2004 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <113.322213f6.2dc566e2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:47:30 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.204 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 04/30/04 7:29:02 PM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: >netemara888 wrote: >> about HPB's influence on Einstein and other physicists. Does anybody >> have any ready references for this. I know Sylvia Cranston is where I >> read this. How reliable is this anyway? > > Not very (which is not to say that it is definitely a fiction). > > Bart I wonder how you are so certain about that? How about some examples of its unreliability with some qualifying research data? I Don't know about the rest of that biography, but the information about Einstein as well as all of its reporting of contemporary scientific knowledge related the theosophical metaphysics is quite reliable. FYI, "Sylvia Cranston" is a pseudonym covering a number of consulting editors in various different fields. I was in close contact with these editors and called on several times for scientific verifications, along with other colleagues. The book was assembled over a ten year period and was culled from mountains of research gathered over the past century by various theosophical writers and historians. LHM From netemara888@yahoo.com Sat May 01 16:12:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95277 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 23:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 23:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 23:12:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2004 23:12:55 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 23:12:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1683 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 163.179.183.56 Subject: Re: Netemara, X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" wrote: > Net, > > (Big smile) Hi, have a Beautiful day. Myself I'm glad you deleted > that group a/o it just worked out that way. I have not as yet > checked out your ttt list - but, eye might at some point. > > I see from your bio that you teach physics in TX - how do you like > it - it's such a fascinating subject isn't it. > > Terrie Hi Terrie, my sister's name is Terry. And I do love physics. In fact that is what I am searching on the web these days. I have a lot of new stuff on physics from other sites. I am using it to breathe new life into the manuscript I wrote about the etheric body and reincarnation back in 1979. HOwever, I was not as good a writer or as ready as I am today. So it is a big rewrite. There is lots of really good material on TTT. Much of it original stuff I wrote. In fact I am going to use some it in this book. I hope to have it ready by early 2005. The only thing is that writing creates some sort of depression in you when you really get into it. It takes over your life and starts to write for you! I will know what is truly in the mind of that HPB when I get done. Namaste Netemara > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "netemara888" > wrote: > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" wrote: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosophy_talks_truth/ > > > > > > What about the World Watch Prophesy Net yahoo group? > > > > You know I started that group and then did no work on it and > finally > > deleted it. > > > > I have been doing that on TTT anyway. > > > > Thanks > > > > Net From netemara888@yahoo.com Sat May 01 16:15:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75793 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 23:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 23:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 23:15:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.155] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2004 23:14:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 23:14:56 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 635 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 163.179.183.56 Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 04/30/04 1:59:25 PM, netemara888@y... writes: > > >about HPB's influence on Einstein and other physicists. Does anybody > >have any ready references for this. I know Sylvia Cranston is where I > >read this. How reliable is this anyway? > >Netemara > > Try... > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/einstein.html thanks Leon. In fact when I went to Notre Dame I bought a T shirt which has the Feynman diagram on it that all the physicists were proudly displaying. He is one of the big guys in the New Physics now. Netemara From bartl@sprynet.com Sat May 01 16:23:35 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13639 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 23:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 23:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.226) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 23:23:35 -0000 Received: from wbar2.nyc1-4.14.24.44.nyc1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.14.24.44] helo=sprynet.com) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BK3pX-0006NH-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 May 2004 16:23:35 -0700 Message-ID: <409431BA.9090002@sprynet.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 19:24:42 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <113.322213f6.2dc566e2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <113.322213f6.2dc566e2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.226 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >> Not very (which is not to say that it is definitely a fiction). >> > I wonder how you are so certain about that? Because the knowledge we have is pretty much third-hand. Bart From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 17:29:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58221 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 00:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 00:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 00:29:00 -0000 Received: from pool0051.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.18.51] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BK4qg-0005XX-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 17:28:51 -0700 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c42fdc$5f7573e0$f893b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797ed13feb2d1f2fa5b7f2485a984784ea350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: Suicide HPB on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saturday, May 01, 2004 =20 Dear Friends: =20 Since suicide has been mentioned in recent postings I offer that which HPB wrote on the subject, and its appropriate consequences. This is what THEOSOPHY teaches. =20 Best wishes, =20 Dallas =20 =20 ----------------------------------------- IS SUICIDE A CRIME? by H. P. Blavatsky [A LETTER and a REPLY] =20 THE writer in the London Spiritualist for November, who calls the "Fragments of Occult Truth" speculation-spinning, can hardly, I think, apply that epithet to Fragment No. 3, so cautiously is the hypothesis concerning suicide advanced therein. Viewed in its general aspect, the hypothesis seems sound enough, satisfies our instincts of the Moral Law of the Universe, and fits in with our ordinary ideas as well as with those we have derived from science. The inference drawn from the two cases cited, viz., that of the selfish suicide on the one hand, and of the unselfish suicide on the other, is that, although the after-states may vary, the result is invariably bad, the variation consisting only in the degree of punishment. It appears to me that, in arriving at this conclusion, the writer could not have had in his mind's eye all the possible cases of suicide, which do or may occur. For I maintain that in some cases self-sacrifice is not only justifiable, but also morally desirable, and that the result of such self-sacrifice cannot possibly be bad. I will put one case, perhaps the rarest of all rare cases, but not necessarily on that account a purely hypothetical one, for I KNOW at least one man, in whom I am interested, who is actuated with feelings, not dissimilar to these I shall now describe, and who would be deeply thankful for any additional light that could be thrown on this darkly mysterious subject.--(See Editor's Note I . )=20 Suppose, then, that an individual, whom I shall call M., takes to thinking long and deep on the vexed questions of the mysteries of earthly existence, its aims, and the highest duties of man. To assist his thoughts, he turns to philosophical works: notably those dealing with the sublime teachings of Buddha. Ultimately he arrives at the conclusion that the FIRST and ONLY aim of existence is to be useful to our fellow men; that failure in this constitutes his own worthlessness as a sentient human being, and that by continuing a life of worthlessness he simply dissipates the energy which he holds in trust, and which, so holding, he has no right to fritter away. He tries to be useful, but--miserably and deplorably fails. What then is his remedy? Remember there is here "no sea of troubles" to "take arms against," no outraged human law to dread, no deserved earthly punishment to escape; in fact, there is no moral cowardice whatever involved in the self-sacrifice. M. simply puts an end to an existence which is useless, and which therefore fails of its own primary purpose. Is his act not justifiable? Or must he also be the victim of that transformation into spook and pisacha, against which Fragment No. 3 utters its dread warning? (2.)=20 Perhaps, M. may secure at the next birth more favourable conditions, and thus be better able to work out the purpose of Being. Well, he can scarcely be worse; for, in addition to his being inspired by a laudable motive to make way for one who might be more serviceable, he has not, in this particular case, been guilty of any moral turpitude. (3.)=20 But I have not done. I go a step further and say that M. is not only useless, but positively mischievous. To his incapacity to do good, he finds that he adds a somewhat restless disposition which is perpetually urging him on to make an effort to do good. M. makes the effort--he would be utterly unworthy the name of man if he did not make it--and discovers that his incapacity most generally leads him into errors which convert the possible good into actual evil; that, on account of his nature, birth, and education, a very large number of men become involved in the effects of his mistaken zeal, and that the world at large suffers more from his existence than otherwise. Now, if, after arriving at such results, M. seeks to carry out their logical conclusion, viz., that being morally bound to diminish the woes to which sentient beings on earth are subject, he should destroy himself, and by that means do the only good he is capable of; is there, I ask, any moral guilt involved in the act of anticipating death in such a case? I, for one, should certainly say not. Nay, more, I maintain, subject of course to correction by superior knowledge, that M. is not only justified in making away with himself, but that he would be a villain if he did not, at once and unhesitatingly, put an end to a life, not only useless, but positively pernicious. (4.)=20 M. may be in error; but supposing he dies cherishing the happy delusion that in death is all the good, in life all the evil he is capable of, are there in his case no extenuating circumstances to plead strongly in his favour, and help to avert a fall into that horrible abyss with which your readers have been frightened? (5.)=20 M.'s, I repeat, is no hypothetical case. History teems with instances of worthless and pernicious lives, carried on to the bitter 1 end to the ruin of nations. Look at the authors of the French Revolution, burning with as ardent a love for their fellowmen as ever fired the human breast; look at them crimson with innocent blood, bringing unutterable disasters on their country in Liberty's sacred name! apparently how strong! in reality how pitifully weak! What a woeful result of incapacity has been theirs? Could they but have seen with M.'s eyes, would they not have been his prototypes? Blessed, indeed, had it been for France, if they had anticipated M.?=20 Again, look at George III. of England, a well-meaning, yet an incapable Sovereign, who, after reigning for a number of years, left his country distracted and impoverished by foreign wars, torn by internal dissensions, and separated from a kindred race across the Atlantic, with the liberties of his subjects trampled under foot, and virtue prostituted in the Cabinet, in Parliament and on the Hustings. His correspondence with Lord North and others abundantly proves that to his self-sufficiency, well-meaning though it be, must be traced the calamities of Great Britain and Ireland, calamities from the effects of which the United Kingdom has not yet fully recovered. Happy had it been for England if this ruler had, like M., seen the uselessness of his life and nipped it, as M. might do, in the bud of its pernicious career!=20 =20 AN INQUIRER =20 -------------------------------------------------------------- =20 H P B -- EDITOR'S NOTES (1.) "Inquirer" is not an Occultist, hence his assertion that in some cases suicide "is not only justifiable, but also morally desirable." No more than murder, is it ever justifiable, however desirable it may sometimes appear.=20 The Occultist, who looks at the origin and the ultimate end of things, teaches that the individual--who affirms that any man, under whatsoever circumstances, is called to put an end to his life,--is guilty d as great an offense and of as pernicious a piece of sophistry, as the nation that assumes a right to kill in war thousands of innocent people under the pretext of avenging the wrong done to one.=20 All such reasonings are the fruits of Avidya mistaken for philosophy and wisdom. Our friend is certainly wrong in thinking that the writer of Fragments arrived at his conclusions only because he failed to keep before his mind's eye all the possible cases of suicide. The result, in one sense, is certainly invariable; and there is but one general law or rule for all suicides. But, it is just because "the after-states" vary ad-infinitum, that it is as erroneous to infer that this variation consists only in the degree of punishment. If the result will be in every case the necessity of living out the appointed period of sentient existence, we do not see whence "Inquirer" has derived his notion that "the result is invariably bad."=20 The result is full of dangers; but there is hope for certain suicides, and even in many cases A REWARD if LIFE WAS SACRIFICED TO SAVE OTHER LIVES and that there was no other alternative for it. Let him read para. 7, page 313, in the September THEOSOPHIST, and reflect. Of course, the question is simply generalized by the writer. To treat exhaustively of all and every case of suicide and their after-states would require a shelf of volumes from the British Museum's Library, not our Fragments.=20 =20 (2.) No man, we repeat, has a right to put an end to his existence simply because it is useless. As well argue the necessity of inciting to suicide all the incurable invalids and cripples who are a constant source of misery to their families; and preach the moral beauty of that law among some of the savage tribes of the South Sea Islanders, in obedience to which they put to death, with war-like honours, their old men and women. The instance chosen by "Inquirer" is not a happy one. There is a vast difference between the man who parts with his life in sheer disgust at constant failure to do good, out of despair of ever being useful, or even out of dread to do injury to his fellow-men by remaining alive; and one who gives it up voluntarily to save the lives either committed to his charge or dear to him.=20 One is a half insane misanthrope the other, a hero and a martyr. One takes away his life, the other offers it in sacrifice to philanthropy and to his duty. The captain who remains alone on board of a sinking ship; the man who gives up his place in a boat that will not hold all, in favour of younger and weaker beings; the physician, the sister of charity, and nurse who stir not from the bed-side of patients dying of an infectious fever; the man of science who wastes his life in brain-work and fatigue and knows he is so wasting it and yet is offering it day after day and night after night in order to discover some great law of the universe, the discovery of which may bring in its results some great boon to mankind; the mother that throws herself before the wild beast, that attacks her children, to screen and give them the time to fly; all these are not suicides. The impulse which prompts them thus to contravene the first great law of animated nature--the first instinctive impulse of which is to preserve life--is grand and noble. And, though all these will have to live in the Kama Loka their appointed life term, they are yet admired by all, and their memory will live honoured among the living for a still longer period. We all wish that, upon similar occasions, we may have courage so to die. Not so, surely in the case of the man instanced by "Inquirer." Notwithstanding his assertion that "there is no moral cowardice whatever involved" in such self-sacrifice--we call it decidedly "moral cowardice" and refuse it the name of sacrifice.=20 (3 and 4.) There is far more courage to live than to die in most cases. If "M." feels that he is "positively mischievous," let him retire to a jungle, a desert island; or, what is still better, to a cave or hut near some big city; and then, while living the life of a hermit, a life which would preclude the very possibility of doing mischief to any one, work, in one way or the other, for the poor, the starving, the afflicted. If he does that, no one can "become involved in the effects of his mistaken zeal," whereas, if he has the slightest talent, he can benefit many by simple manual labour carried on in as complete a solitude and silence as can be commanded under the circumstances. Anything is better even being called a crazy philanthropist--than committing suicide, the most dastardly and cowardly of all actions, unless the felo de se is resorted to, in a fit of insanity.=20 (5.) "Inquirer" asks whether his "M." must also be victim of that transformation into spook and pisacha! Judging by the delineation given of his character, by his friend, we should say that, of all suicides, he is the most likely to become a s=E9ance-room spook. Guiltless "of any moral turpitude," he may well be. But, since he is afflicted with a "restless disposition which is perpetually urging him on to make an effort to do good"--here, on earth, there is no reason we know of, why he should lose that unfortunate disposition (unfortunate because of the constant failure)--in the Kama Loka. A "mistaken zeal" is sure to lead him on toward various mediums. Attracted by the strong magnetic desire of sensitives and spiritualists, "M." will probably feel "morally bound to diminish the woes to which these sentient beings (mediums and believers) are subject on earth," and shall once more destroy, not only himself, but his "affinities" the mediums.=20 H P Blavatsky, Editor Theosophist, November, 1882=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 Dallas =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat May 01 17:29:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20879 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 00:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 00:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.254) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 00:29:07 -0000 Received: from pool0051.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.18.51] helo=DALLAS) by invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1BK4qP-0005XX-00; Sat, 01 May 2004 17:28:33 -0700 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c42fdc$5bcc6910$f893b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797ed13feb2d1f2fa5168b0d4d95752f78350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.254 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: SPIRIT -- SOUL -- MIND X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday, May 01, 2004 Re: SPIRIT -- SOUL -- MIND Dear Friends: As the subject of Man's real self has come up in recent postings I thought some of the references in THEOSOPHY that address this subject might be of use to us all.. Best wishes, Dallas ------------------ ATMA - In MAN is the sole PERCEIVER ======================== There is important axiom is one on which the whole of Theosophical philosophy rests: "Every living creature, of whatever description, was, is, or will become a human being in one or another Manvantara." HPB-- TRANSACTIONS, p. 23. A study of the statements made in the Theosophical philosophy concerning the universal principle Atma show that it pervades everything. It can be understood as "Space." The purpose for manifestation (as cause) is that every Monad, an individualized "ray" of the Atma, may reach to a complete knowledge and understanding of the nature and reach of the Universe in all its vast complexity. The process of reincarnation for the Atma (spirit) in humans, is only a continuation of the pilgrimage of the immortal Monad. [Atma-Buddhi-Manas or Spirit - Wisdom - Mind]. The Atma being the UNIVERSAL ALL, may be seen to overshadow, rather than incarnate in any individual. It pervades the whole universe and is truly illimitable, as it is, whether manifest or non-manifest, considered as the ABSOLUTE for which there are no limits or conditions. It is only for the purpose of our understanding that we call ATMA a human "Principle." In all truth the principle "BUDDHI" is the primary "human principle." Higher Manas (BUDDHI- MANAS) is a portion of the UNIVERSAL MIND (Mahat). [It is Mulaprakriti, or divine primordial substance -- see Suddha Sattva in the Theos. Glossary.] So the word Atma as used in The SECRET DOCTRINE may be considered a "blind" designed to indicate the INDIVIDUALITY or the ETERNAL PILGRIM and all the powers that it has of penetrating in and through all the levels and planes of being. And finally, it is said to be "overshadowing " the gross human physical frame we use when we are awake and acting on this plane we call the Earth. This "frame of physical matter" is the final and lowest of the 4 principles that we group under the term "personality." It changes with each incarnation because of the so many choices we make. And to its choices, good or bad, lawful or unlawful, all aspects of karmic responsibility are attributed. The basic concept is that the INDIVIDUALITY overshadows the skandhaic attributes (or bundles of "monads of lesser experience") of the Personality to assist them to elevate themselves to the level it has already achieved, perhaps many Manvantaras earlier. Here is an important concept : "As to the "we," there is but one "we," or perceiver [Atma], who perceives on any plane through the sheaths evolved by him on each plane. His perceptions on any plane will depend on the "quality" of the sheath or vehicle. "Atma" (spirit) or consciousness alone, is what remains after the subtraction of all the sheaths. It is the ONLY witness--a synthesizing unity. On this plane"--and this means during waking consciousness or its dream effects--the perceiver knows "only what it knows on this plane" (generally speaking), and through ignorance of the Real, involves itself in the cause and effect of physical nature, identifying itself with body and sensations, and looking at other human beings in the same light. This is a wrong attitude of mind. The "we," at this end, is the identification of the perceiver with this plane's perceptions--a misconception of the perceiver, a dream--a play--in which the perceiver is so involved as to have lost sight and memory of his real life. The mind is both "carrier" and "translator" of both lower and higher self; the attitude determines the quality and kind of action, for one will act according to the attitude of mind firmly held. The great and incalculable value of acting for and as the Supreme is that there is nothing higher in the way of attitude, and this endeavor "must," by its very nature bring about the best results. What moves the "mind" this way or that is usually desire for the attractions of matter, and self- interest in them; these then move and control the mind through the brain. "We," the Perceiver, do not perceive anything but the "ideas" which the senses and organs present. He is not fully awake on this plane; sometimes he gets partly wakened, but drops off to sleep again, lulled by the sounds and memories of his dream; sometimes "bad dreams" awake him; sometimes he is awakened by the voices of those who are awake. The "Real" and the "unreal," the "fleeting" and the "ever-lasting" are terms which will be more fully understood if looked at from the point of view of the Perceiver. This is the attitude of mind we should hold." F P, pp. 47-8 ----------------------------------- "...ATMAN IS THE UNIVERSAL ALL, and becomes the Higher Self of man only in conjunctions with Buddhi, its vehicle, which links It to the individuality (or divine man). For it is the Buddhi-Manas which is called the Causal Body, (the united 5th and 6th Principles) and which is consciousness, that connects it with every personality it inhabits on earth." Key, p. 121 "Atman" is no individual property of any man, but is the Divine essence which has no body, no form, which is imponderable, invisible, and indivisible, that which does not exist, and yet is. ...It only overshadows the mortal; that which enters into him and pervades the whole body being only its omnipresent rays, or light, radiated through Buddhi , its vehicle and direct emanation. This is the secret meaning of the assertions of almost all the ancient philosophers, when they said that "the rational part of "man's soul" never entered wholly into the man, but only overshadowed him more or less through the irrational spiritual Soul or Buddhi...the difference between that which is negatively, or passively, "irrational," because undifferentiated, and that which is irrational because too active and positive. Man is a correlation of spiritual powers, as well as a correlation of chemical and physical forces, brought into function by what we call "principles." ...the spirit (Atma) never descends hypostatically into the living man, but only showers more or less its radiance on the inner man (the psychic and spiritual compound of the astral principles)..." Key 101-2 "...OUR EGO [MIND-SELF] IS A RAY OF THE UNIVERSAL MIND, individualized for the space of a cosmic life-cycle, during which space of time it gets experience in almost numberless reincarnations or rebirths, after which it returns to its Parent-Source. The Occultist would call the "Higher Ego" the immortal Entity, whose shadow and reflection is the human Manas, the mind limited by its physical senses. The two may be well compared to the Master-artist and the pupil-musician...In the course of natural evolution our "brain-mind" will be replaced by a finer organism, and helped by the 6th [Buddhi] and the 7th [Atma] senses..." Theos. Articles & Notes, (ULT) p. 208 "The student must not confuse this Spiritual Ego with the "Higher Self" which is Atma, the God within us, and inseparable from the Universal Spirit." Key, p. 130-1fn "The "Master" in the Sanctuary of our souls is "the Higher Self"-- the divine spirit whose consciousness is based upon and derived solely...(during the mortal life of the man in whom it is captive)... from the Mind, which we have agreed upon to call the Human Soul (the "Spiritual Soul" being the vehicle of the Spirit [Atman]. In its turn the former (the personal or human soul) is a compound in its highest form of spiritual aspirations, volitions, and divine love; and in its lower aspect, of animal desires and terrestrial passions imparted to it by its association with its vehicle, the eat of all these. It thus stands as a link and a medium between the animal nature of man which its higher reason seeks to subdue, and his divine spiritual nature, with the inner animal. The latter is the instinctual "animal Soul" and is the hotbed of those passions..." H.P.B. -- "OCCULTISM VS. THE OCCULT ARTS," HPB Articles (U.L.T. ), Vol. II, p. 105 "...our Higher Self is leading us through all the experiences of life to the end that we shall recognize the unity of all, then, instead of continually acting contrary to that object of the Higher Self [Atma], we try to acquire the right belief and aspiration." GITA NOTES, pp. 123-4 [ see also H.P.B. -- TRANSACTIONS, pp. 65-77 ] "Rely within yourself on your Higher Self always, and that gives strength, as the Self uses whom it will. Persevere, and little by little new ideals and thought-forms will drive out of you the old ones. This is the eternal process." W.Q.J.-- LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME , p. 129 "Apart for the Higher Self in each of us, there are in the World the actual Masters of Wisdom, Adepts, Mahatmas or Perfected Men. Their existence and continued work in both visible and invisible planes and it has been described as: Knowers of Atma: "Atma-Gnyanis." Atma (our 7th principle) being identical with the universal Spirit, and man being one with it in essence, what is then the Monad proper ? "It is that homogeneous spark which radiates in millions of rays from the primeval "Seven;" ...It is the EMANATING spark from the UNCREATED RAY--A MYSTERY...Adi-Buddha (Chogi dangpoi sangye), the One Unknown, without beginning or end, identical with Parabrahm and Ain-Soph, emits a bright ray from its darkness. This is the Logos (the first), or Vajradhara, the Supreme Buddha (also called Dorjechang)...he cannot manifest, but sends into the world of manifestation his heart--the "diamond heart," Vajrasattva (Dorjesempa). This is the second logos of creation, from whom emanate the seven (in the exoteric blind the five) Dhyani Buddhas, called the Anupadaka, "the parentless." "These Buddhas are the primeval monads from the world of incorporeal beings, the Arupa world, wherein the Intelligences (on that plane only) have neither shape nor name, in the exoteric system, but have their distinct seven names in the esoteric philosophy. These Dhyani Buddhas emanate, or create from themselves, by virtue of Dhyana, celestial Selves--the super-human Bodhisattvas. These incarnating in the beginning of every human cycle as mortal men, become occasionally, owing to their personal merit, Bodhisattvas among the Sons of Humanity, after which they may re- appear as Manushi (human) Buddhas. The Anupadaka (or Dhyani-Buddhas) are thus identical with the Brahmanical Manasaputra, "mind-born sons"--whether of Brahma or either of the other two Trimurthian Hypostases, hence identical with the Rishis and Prajapatis." SD I 571 "The real Mahatma is then not his physical body but that higher "Manas" which is inseparably linked to the "Atma" and its vehicle (6th principle) -- a union effected by him in a comparatively very short period by passing through the self-evolution laid down by the Occult Philosophy." HPB Articles (U.L.T. ) I, p. 293 Considering that the "Atmic Beings" are those who became "perfect" in previous Manvantaras, it can be understood that They volunteered to assist in this Manvantara in the developing of further successful pupils in this eternal "School of Life". The "Secret Doctrine" says there is an "Undying Race" : "Alone a handful of primitive men -- in whom the spark of divine Wisdom burnt bright, and only strengthened in its intensity as it got dimmer and dimmer with every age in those who turned it to bad purposes--remained the elect custodians of the Mysteries revealed to mankind by the divine Teachers. There were those among them, who remained in their Kumaric condition from the beginning; and tradition whispers, what the secret teachings affirm, namely, that these Elect were the germs of a Hierarchy which never died since that period: -- "The inner man of the first * * * only changes his body from time to time; he is ever the same, knowing neither rest nor Nirvana, spurning Devachan and remaining constantly on Earth for the salvation of mankind ..." "Out of the seven virgin-men (Kumara) four sacrificed themselves for the sins of the world and the instruction of the ignorant, to remain till the end of the present Manvantara. Though unseen, they are ever present. When people say of one of them, "He is dead;" behold, he is alive and under another form. These are the Head, the Heart, the Soul, and the Seed of undying knowledge (Gnyana). Thou shalt never speak, O Lanoo, of these great ones (Maha...) before a multitude, mentioning them by their names. The wise alone will understand. (Catechism of the Inner Schools.)" SD II 281-2 "As the synthesis of the 7 Dhyani-Buddhas, Avalokiteshwara was the first Buddha (the Logos), so Amitabha is the inner "god" of Gautama, who, in China, is called Amita (-Buddha)...the glorious counterparts of every earthly mortal Buddha--the liberated Manushi-Buddhas appointed to govern the Earth in this Round. They are the "Buddhas of Contemplation," and are all Anupadaka (parentless), i.e., self-born of divine essence...rests on the fact that owing to the highest initiation performed by one overshadowed by the "Spirit of Buddha"--...a candidate becomes virtually a Bodhisattva, created such by the High Initiator." SD I 109 "The hosts of these Sons of Light and "Mind-born Sons" of the first manifested Ray of the Unknown All , are the very root of spiritual man." SD I 106 "The 7 Beings in the Sun are the 7 Holy Ones, Self-born from the inherent power in the matrix of Mother substance. it is they who send the 7 Principal Forces, called rays, which at the beginning of Pralaya will center into 7 new Suns for the next Manvantara. The energy from which they spring into conscious existence in every Sun, is what some people call Vishnu (fn) which is the Breath of Absoluteness . (Fn) In the same manner as a man approaches a mirror placed upon a stand, beholds in it his own image, so the energy or reflection of Vishnu (the Sun) is never disjointed but remains in the Sun as in a mirror that is there stationed." (Vishnu Purana) SD I 290 "Are not the prismatic rays fundamentally one single white ray? >From the one they become three; from the three, seven; from which seven primaries they fall into infinitude. Referring back to the so-called "consciousness" of the Ah-hi, that consciousness cannot be judged by the standard of human perceptions. It is on quite another plane. [Example]...often the reasoning faculty of the higher mind may be asleep, and the instinctual mind be fully awake." TRANSACTIONS, p. 26-7 "...the true esoteric meaning is that most of them (the Agnishwatta Pitris) were DESTINED TO INCARNATE AS THE EGOS OF THE FORTHCOMING CROP OF MANKIND. The human Ego is neither Atman nor Buddhi, but THE HIGHER MANAS; the intellectual fruition and the efflorescence of the intellectual self-conscious Egotism--in the higher spiritual sense. The ancient works refer to it as Karana Sarira on the plane of the Sutratma, which is the golden thread on which, like beads, the various personalities of this higher Ego are strung...these beings were returning Nirvanees, from preceding Maha- Manvantaras...." SD II 79 The information given would not have much use for us, unless some practical applications could be drawn from it. It is suggested in a number of places that we can be: ATTUNING OURSELVES TO THE ATMA WITHIN "...Buddhi and Atma...These higher principles are entirely inactive on our plane, and the higher Ego (Manas) itself is more or less dormant during the waking of the physical man...So dormant are the Spiritual faculties, because the Ego is so trammeled by matter, that IT can hardly give all its attention to man's actions, even should the latter commit sins for which that Ego--when reunited with its lower Manas--will have to suffer conjointly in the future. It is...the impressions projected into the physical man by this Ego which constitute what we call "conscience;" and in proportion as the personality, the lower Soul (or Manas), unites itself to its higher consciousness, or EGO, does the action of the latter upon the life of mortal man become more marked." TRANS 62-3 "...Whenever you are able to attune your consciousness to any of the seven chords of 'Universal Consciousness," those chords that run along the sounding-board of Kosmos, vibrating from one Eternity to another; when you have studied thoroughly 'the music of the Spheres [the 7 principles of Nature and of man and their correlations]," then only will you become quite free to share your knowledge with those with whom it is safe to do so...Do not give out the great Truths that are the inheritance of the future Races, to our present generation. Do not attempt to unveil the secret of being and non-being to those unable to see the hidden meaning of Apollo's HEPTACHORD--the lyre of the radiant god, in each of the seven strings of which dwelleth the Spirit, Soul and Astral body of the Kosmos, whose shell only has now fallen into the hands of Modern Science..." SD I 167 "...HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS" is but a Ray of the Divine. Our Manas, or Ego, proceeds from, and is the Son (figuratively) of Mahat. Vaivaswatta Manu (the Manu of our fifth race and Humanity in general) is the chief personified representative of the thinking Humanity of the fifth Root-race; and therefore he is represented as the eldest Son of the Sun and an Agnishwatta Ancestor...Thought in its action on human brains is endless. Thus Manu is, and contains the potentiality of all the thinking forms which will be developed on earth from this particular source. In the esoteric teaching he is the beginning of this earth , and from him and his daughter Ila humanity is born; he is a unity which contains all the pluralities and their modifications. Every manvantara has its own Manu, and from this Manu the various Manus or rather all the Manasa of the Kalpas will proceed...he may be compared to the white light which contains all the other rays, giving birth to them by passing through the prism of differentiation and evolution." TRANSACTIONS, p. . 99 "It is the Spiritual evolution of the inner, immortal man that forms the fundamental tenet in the Occult Sciences...the ONE Universal Life, independent of matter...and...the individual intelligences that animate the various manifestations of this Principle...The ONE Life is closely related to the one law which governs the World of Being--KARMA. SD I 634 "Every man has a god within, a direct ray from the Absolute, the celestial ray from the One. TRANSACTIONS, p. 53 "To meditate on the Higher Self is difficult. Seek then, the bridge--the Masters. Fix your thoughts again on Those Elder Brothers, work for Them, serve Them, and They will help through the right appropriate means..." W.Q.J. LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, p. 112 "...think, think, think on the truth that you are not body, brain, or astral man, but that you are THAT, and "THAT" is the Supreme Soul [Atma]." W.Q.J. LETTERS p. 116 "...remember that the greatest and truest friend is the Higher Self. He who has the Higher Self as his friend possesses all things and lacks nothing, and the Higher Self is your friend if you will but receive that friendship. Take courage and be patient; the light is shining in your heart, and, if you will but go on, you will find it there, and it will be brighter far than you can now imagine." W.Q.J. LETTERS, pp. 174-5 "...a full reliance upon the Spirit within and upon the law that the hands that smite us are our own, will relieve the pressure of some events that seem mysteries...The great struggle must be to open up my outer self, that my higher being may shine through, for I know that in my heart the God sits patient, and that his pure rays are merely veiled from me by the many strivings and illusions that I bring on outwardly." W.Q.J. LETTERS, p. 85 "But let me again insist upon your trying to realize in yourselves that you are a part of the All. That is the constant subject of meditation, and will bring you the best and most rapid progress...too much must not be expected of the Mahatmas. They cannot interfere with Karma'; and so, if a man starts out to them, they say: "Try"...It does not follow that they are always helping him because he has made himself a chela. Of course, there are those whose Karma is such that they are helped...Of course if the Master sends one, then he will protect...We say we are all part of the All. Well, we must intensely mediate upon that until we begin to realize it, and from then we will receive instruction." W.Q.J. LETTERS, p. 200 "He must first get rid of the idea that he himself really does anything, knowing that the actions all take place in these three natural qualities [Gunas], and not in the soul at all. The word "qualities" must be considered in a larger sense than the word is generally given. Then he must place all his actions on devotion. That is, sacrifice all his actions to the Supreme and not to himself. He must either (leaving out indifference) set himself us as the God to whom he sacrifices, or the other real God--Krishna, and all his acts and aspirations are done either for himself or for the All. Her comes in the importance of motive. For if he performs great deeds of valor, or of benefit to man, or acquires knowledge so as to assist man, and is moved to that merely because he thinks he will attain salvation, he is acting only for his own benefit and is therefore sacrificing to himself. Therefore he must be devoted inwardly to the All; that is, he places all his actions on the Supreme [Atman], knowing that he is not the doer of the actions, but is the mere witness of them...All doubts come from the lower nature, and never in any case from the higher nature. Therefore, as he becomes more and more devoted, he is able to know more and more clearly the knowledge residing in his Satwa part... The three qualities are lower than a state called Turya, which is a high state capable of being enjoyed even while in this body. Therefore, in that state, there exists none of the three qualities , but the soul sees the three qualities moving in the ocean of Being beneath. This experience is met with not only after death, but, as I said, it may be enjoyed in the present life, though of course consciously very seldom. But there are those high Yogees who can and do rise up to Nirvana, or Spirit, even consciously, while on earth. This state is the fourth state, called Turya...In that state the body is alive even though in deep catalepsy. (Self-induced by the Adept.] When the Adept returns from it be brings whatever he can of the vast experiences of that Turya state. Of course they are far beyond any expression, and their possibilities can only be dimly perceived by us." WQJ - Letters, p. 28-9 "I am glad that you have such faith in the Great Workers who are behind us. They are behind us, to my personal knowledge, and not behind me only, but behind all sincere workers. I know that their desire is that each should listen to the voice of his inner self [Atma] and not depend too much on outside people, whether they be Masters, Eastern disciples, or what not. By a dependence of that kind you become at last thoroughly independent, and then the unseen helpers are able to help all the more." WQJ Letters, pp. 112-113 "Seek the truth by strong search," by doing service, and by enquiry, and Those who know the Truth will teach it. Let the warrior fight, the gentle yet fierce Krishna, who, when he finds thee as his disciple and friend, will tell thee the truth and lighten up the darkness with the lamp of spiritual knowledge." W.Q.J. Letters, p. 112 "The best and most important teacher is one's seventh (Atma) principle centered in the sixth [Buddhi]. " W.Q.J. Letters, p. 96 "A student of occultism...gets into...a vortex of occultism...he passes into the whirl caused by the mighty effort of his Higher Self [Atma], to make him remember his past lives. Then those lives affect him..." W.Q.J. LETTERS, p. 150 "Getting back the memory of past lives is the whole of the process." W.Q.J. LETTERS , p. 78 [ see also WQJ ARTICLES, Vol. I, p. 571 bottom, II 462 middle ] VERIFICATION AND PROVING OF ALL DOCTRINES The process of self-perfection is always directed by our free-choice. It is significant that in the Occult and Esoteric process each student-pupil is left entirely free to make his own choices, his own "path," and to either accelerate or retard his progress. At all stages he receives information and suggestions for his consideration and use if he desires to employ them. It is always recommended that he fully investigate and probe all information, so as to verify its accuracy for himself. Nothing is to be taken on "blind faith." To do so, would give no actual benefit to the student, because, in effect he remains ignorant of some vital link. He is expected, by the laws inherent in Nature, to learn the whole process from its base on up. It is for this reason that no impartation of esoteric knowledge by the payment of money or the exchange of personal benefits works. "Every Buddha meets at his last initiation all the great adepts who reached Buddhahood during the Preceding ages...every class of adepts has its own bond of spiritual communion which knits them together...The only possible and effectual way of entering into such brotherhood...is by bringing oneself within the influence of the Spiritual light which radiates from one's own Logos [ATMAN]...such communion is only possible between persons whose souls derive their life and sustenance from the same divine RAY, and that, as seven distinct rays radiate from the 'CENTRAL SPIRITUAL SUN,' all adepts and Dhyan Chohans are divisible into 7 classes, each of which is guided, controlled, and overshadowed by one of the 7 forms or manifestations of the divine wisdom." S. Rao quoted - THEOSOPHIST, AUG. 1886. SD I 574 "The "Absolute Consciousness"..."behind" phenomena...is only termed unconsciousness in the absence of any element of personality...transcends human conception... Only the liberated Spirit is able to faintly realize the nature of the source whence it sprung and whither it must eventually return...we can but bow in ignorance before the awful mystery of Absolute Being...the Finite cannot conceive the Infinite..." S D I 51 "Free-will can only exist in a man who has both mind and consciousness, which act and make him perceive things both within and without himself." "Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form." WQJ ARTICLES, Vol. I, p. 29 Then there is a most important axiom on which the whole of Theosophical philosophy rests: "Every living creature, of whatever description, was, is, or will become a human being in one or another Manvantara." HPB-- TRANSACTIONS, p. 23. The individual MONAD -- the "Eternal Pilgrim" is defined:: "MONAD (Gr.) The Unity, the one; but in Occultism it often means the unified triad, Atma-Buddhi- Manas, or the duad, "Atma-Buddhi," that immortal part of man which reincarnates in the lower kingdoms, and gradually progresses through them to Man and then to the final goal--Nirvana." T. Glossary, .p. 216 [see SD I , pp. 173-4 footnotes] "The universal force cannot be regarded as a conscious force as we understand the word consciousness, because it would immediately become a personal god. It is only that which is enclosed in a form, a limitation of matter, which is conscious of itself on this plane. This Free Force or Will, which is limitless and absolute, cannot be said to act understandingly, but it is the one and sole immutable Law of Life and Being. Fohat, therefore, is spoken of as the synthetic motor power of all imprisoned life-forces and the medium between the absolute and conditioned Force It is a link, just as Manas is the connecting link between the gross matter of the physical body and the divine Monad which animates it, but is powerless to act upon the former directly." TRANSACTIONS, p. 134 (see also "Psychic and Noetic Action" - HPB Articles, Vol. II, pp. 7-23 ==================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat May 01 21:37:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92952 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 04:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 04:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40909.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.206) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 04:37:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20040502043737.12403.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.20.19] by web40909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 01 May 2004 21:37:37 PDT Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:37:37 -0700 (PDT) To: Danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.78.206 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Two More Books on Blavatsky reprinted by Kessinger Publishing Company X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Readers may want to know that the following two books on Blavatsky have been reprinted by Kessinger Publishing Company: H.P. Blavatsky: The Light-Bringer by Leonard Bosman and Anita Orchard Paperback, 152 pages Order at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0766183254/ My Guest: H.P. Blavatsky by Francesca Arundale Paperback, 96 pages Order at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0766191257/ Other titles on Blavatsky reprinted by Kessinger can be found listed at: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/kessinger.htm or http://www.theosophy.info/kessinger.htm Daniel H. Caldwell http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun May 02 01:54:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16991 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 08:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 08:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 08:54:51 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.1e3.1f1caceb (16781) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 04:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e3.1f1caceb.2dc61155@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 04:54:45 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.204 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 05/01/04 7:25:08 PM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: >leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >>> Not very (which is not to say that it is definitely a fiction). >>> >> I wonder how you are so certain about that? > > Because the knowledge we have is pretty much third-hand. > > Bart Do you mean that you can't verify whatever knowledge you have through your own inner study or experience? Or, are you talking about the historical knowledge? As for the scientific and metaphysical information, as far as I know it was simply reported, and certainly didn't falsify the documentary information it was based on. With regard to the information about Einstein's connection with the Secret Doctrine -- which, in fact, triggered the initial question about Cranston's reliability -- I think there is enough first hand knowledge and documentation to give it credence beyond any shadow of a doubt. Leon From Nisk98114@aol.com Sun May 02 08:49:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9739 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 15:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 15:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 15:49:41 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.d9.9697ad8 (4012) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 11:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:49:16 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.137.7 From: Nisk98114@aol.com Subject: RE: E-mail account security warning. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watch out for fraud here on this one. The auto forwarding is the tip off. Major servers like Yahoo don't act in this fashion. ============================================= In a message dated 5/2/04 8:21:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com writes: Message: 3 Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:47:52 -0500 From: "Fred Davis" Subject: RE: E-mail account security warning. There is no attached file ??? -----Original Message----- From: dalval14@earthlink.net [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World E-mail account security warning. Hello user of Yahoogroups.com e-mail server, Our main mailing server will be temporary unavaible for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service. Further details can be obtained from attached file. For security reasons attached file is password protected. The password is "78038". Kind regards, The Yahoogroups.com team http://www.yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Sun May 02 11:59:58 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46073 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 18:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 18:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.126) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 18:59:57 -0000 Received: from wbar2.nyc1-4.14.24.44.nyc1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.14.24.44] helo=sprynet.com) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKMBw-0006cx-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 11:59:57 -0700 Message-ID: <40954571.9060209@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 15:01:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <1e3.1f1caceb.2dc61155@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e3.1f1caceb.2dc61155@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.126 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: > it was based on. With regard to the information about Einstein's connection > with the Secret Doctrine -- which, in fact, triggered the initial question about > Cranston's reliability -- I think there is enough first hand knowledge and > documentation to give it credence beyond any shadow of a doubt. OK. I think that, "somebody told somebody else that they saw a book, and nobody knows where the book is." counts as sketchy evidence, you think it counts as evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt. Bart From zolarczakl@netzero.com Sun May 02 12:26:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: zolarczakl@netzero.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43040 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 19:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 19:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 19:26:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.171] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2004 19:26:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 19:26:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 546 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "walkinsnotwelcome" X-Originating-IP: 205.188.116.80 Subject: Theos-World Re: Science and Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=157267155 X-Yahoo-Profile: walkinsnotwelcome > > leonmaurer@a... wrote: > > > Science can only measure something that has an objective or > physical reality. > > Which, ultimately, is everything, if you want to believe the > Mahatmas. > Bart > So, Bart, are you saying that the Mahatmas said that there is nothing in the world that doesn't manifest itself physically? Larry From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun May 02 14:07:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85145 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 21:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 21:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 21:07:05 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.3d.3df8990d (3964) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d.3df8990d.2dc6bce6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 17:06:46 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.37 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 05/02/04 3:00:54 PM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: >leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >> it was based on. With regard to the information about Einstein's=20 connection > >> with the Secret Doctrine -- which, in fact, triggered the initial questi= on=20 about=20 >> Cranston's reliability -- I think there is enough first hand knowledge a= nd=20 >> documentation to give it credence beyond any shadow of a doubt. > > OK. I think that, "somebody told somebody else that they saw a book,=20 >and nobody knows where the book is." counts as sketchy evidence, you=20 >think it counts as evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt. > >Bart You may believe what you will. But I heard it In New York directly from th= e=20 horse's mouth, and Sylvia Cranston (Anita Atkins) heard it in California fr= om=20 another person (or=A0perhaps the same one) who was also there at the time=20 Einstein's niece brought his copy of the SD to the Lodge at Adyar. My ques= tions to=20 the actual receiver about the book along with several witnesses, and=20 subsequent comparative research in the SD and in Einstein's writings, along= with the=20 credibility of the people I spoke to who witnessed it, makes it evidence=20 "beyond a shadow of a doubt" as far as I'm concerned.=20=20 Another verification (for me) is that Einstein's close friend and colleague= =20 was Robert Millikan -- who was also a theosophist. It's very likely that h= e=20 gave the book to Einstein -- since they were both also Masons. (Incidental= ly, I=20 know this directly from my father, who along with several other Masonic=20 friends of his originally sponsored Einstein into the US and placed him in = an=20 apartment near Washington Square park in New York before he went to Princet= on.)=20=20 As for the book being missing, so are all the books in the Alexandria libra= ry=20 -- but their existence is not in doubt. In any event, I wouldn't be=20 surprised if the book is in someone's private library... Since, If I was th= e one to=20 receive it, I would have taken it home and studied the margin notes, rather= than=20 leave it rot or get stolen in some public library. Of course, no one said= =20 that the book was kept in Adyar when it was shown to the persons at the des= k=20 there. For all we know, One of the receivers kept it. Since he/she may be= gone=20 by now, or Einstein's niece just showed it to them and took it back home...= =20 Who's to know where it is now?=20=20 Leon=20 /\ / o \=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 /\ U ||| (Omni knows... Do you?)=20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun May 02 15:38:29 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94976 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 22:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 22:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 22:38:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 May 2004 22:38:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:38:16 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 422 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: SD copy given to Adyar TS library OR to a ULT lodge library OR....??? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Leon, You write about Einstein's niece on the following webpage: http://users.aol.com/unIwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/einstein.html You said that the SD copy in question was given to the lodge. But from what you wrote and what you quote from Anita's book, I ask: What lodge did the niece go to? ULT lodge in Madras or to the Adyar TS headequarters in Madras? Eunice Layton is (was) a Adyar TS member. Daniel From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun May 02 20:37:56 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45745 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 03:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 03:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 03:37:55 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.75.286e6816 (24895) for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 23:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <75.286e6816.2dc7188e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 23:37:50 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 5/2/04 2:00:38 PM Central Daylight Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: << OK. I think that, "somebody told somebody else that they saw a book, and nobody knows where the book is." counts as sketchy evidence, you think it counts as evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt. >> Actually, the truth is that his Aunt Zelda gave him a copy and he couldn't find a place on his crowded shelf for it so he used it as a door-stop. There is NO credible evidence that Albert Einstein ever took a word of The Secret Doctrine seriously. Chuck the Heretic From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun May 02 21:00:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20303 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 04:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 04:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m15.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.205) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 04:00:10 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.105.4576f677 (4418) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 00:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <105.4576f677.2dc71dc0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 00:00:00 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.138.205 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 05/02/04 11:38:34 PM, Drpsionic@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 5/2/04 2:00:38 PM Central Daylight Time, bartl@sprynet.com > >writes: > ><< OK. I think that, "somebody told somebody else that they saw a book, > and nobody knows where the book is." counts as sketchy evidence, you > think it counts as evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt. > >> > >Actually, the truth is that his Aunt Zelda gave him a copy and he couldn't >find a place on his crowded shelf for it so he used it as a door-stop. >There is NO credible evidence that Albert Einstein ever took a word of >The Secret Doctrine seriously. > >Chuck the Heretic There's NO credible evidence that anyone ever took Chuck the heretic very seriously. What does that prove? Lenny the pantheist popularizer From bartl@sprynet.com Sun May 02 22:41:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42810 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 05:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 05:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.126) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 05:41:20 -0000 Received: from wbar2.nyc1-4.14.24.44.nyc1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.14.24.44] helo=sprynet.com) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BKWCc-000251-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 02 May 2004 22:41:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4095DBC4.7060709@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 01:42:28 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <3d.3df8990d.2dc6bce6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <3d.3df8990d.2dc6bce6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.126 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: > You may believe what you will. But I heard it In New York directly from the > horse's mouth, You spoke to Albert Einstein's niece? Bart From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Mon May 03 05:42:10 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33214 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 12:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 12:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.100) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 12:42:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.168] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2004 12:41:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:41:06 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <75.286e6816.2dc7188e@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1235 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.100 From: "stevestubbs" X-Originating-IP: 4.226.12.195 Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@a... wrote: > Actually, the truth is that his Aunt Zelda gave him a copy and he couldn't > find a place on his crowded shelf for it so he used it as a door- stop. > > There is NO credible evidence that Albert Einstein ever took a word of The > Secret Doctrine seriously. My Aunt Zelda gave me a copy and I left it on the flor, where it was ruined when my house was flooded. It is a fact, however, that Einstein was criticized foir entertaining psychics when he was at Princeton and that he was a member of the Rosicrucians. It is also nnoteworthy that two of his central ideas seem to strongly resemble those promulgated by Zoellner, namely his notion of the fourth dimensiom, which is central to the Special Theory of Relativitty and the space-contortion theory of he existemce of matter, which is central to the General Theory. Zoellner's book TRANSCENDENTAL PHYSICS, which has been ridiculed by Martin Gardner and others, was translated into English by Theosophist CC Massey. This is the book im which the 4D theory was discussed, not merely as a mathematical oddity but as fact in nature. I am not an Einstein scholar and cannot say how relevant all of this is. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 07:26:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66946 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 14:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 14:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 14:26:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.143] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2004 14:26:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 14:26:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 283 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: Dallas on Einstein's Copy of THE SECRET DOCTRINE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Dallas has sent to me alot of correspondence back and forth about Einstein's copy of the Secret Doctrine. I hope he will post all of it or some of it on this forum since this is a topic of interest and should be clarified. Daniel H. Caldwell http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From netemara888@yahoo.com Mon May 03 10:11:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96645 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 17:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 17:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 17:11:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 May 2004 17:11:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 17:11:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1844 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.93 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 63.147.240.11 Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "stevestubbs" wrote: > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@a... wrote: > > Actually, the truth is that his Aunt Zelda gave him a copy and he > couldn't > > find a place on his crowded shelf for it so he used it as a door- > stop. > > > > There is NO credible evidence that Albert Einstein ever took a word > of The > > Secret Doctrine seriously. > > My Aunt Zelda gave me a copy and I left it on the flor, where it was > ruined when my house was flooded. > > It is a fact, however, that Einstein was criticized foir entertaining > psychics when he was at Princeton and that he was a member of the > Rosicrucians. It is also nnoteworthy that two of his central ideas > seem to strongly resemble those promulgated by Zoellner, namely his > notion of the fourth dimensiom, which is central to the Special > Theory of Relativitty and the space-contortion theory of he existemce > of matter, which is central to the General Theory. Zoellner's book > TRANSCENDENTAL PHYSICS, which has been ridiculed by Martin Gardner > and others, was translated into English by Theosophist CC Massey. > This is the book im which the 4D theory was discussed, not merely as > a mathematical oddity but as fact in nature. I am not an Einstein > scholar and cannot say how relevant all of this is. I am not a scholar of Einstein but I did read that huge biography about him and the thing that gives credence to his being influenced or impressed by something outside of himself is that he came up with the theory of special relativity purely by putting himself in the place in his mental dimension. In other words his laboratory was his own mind. I think that is truly remarkable about this story. That is the plane that the masters work on: the mental plane. Netemara From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon May 03 16:46:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5018 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 23:46:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 23:46:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 23:46:13 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.3.) id r.82.af18b28 (14374) for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 19:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <82.af18b28.2dc833aa@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 19:45:46 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.144.207 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 05/03/04 1:41:59 AM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: >leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >> You may believe what you will. But I heard it In New York directly from >the >> horse's mouth, > > You spoke to Albert Einstein's niece? > > Bart If I told you I did, what would that prove about where Einstein's notated copy of the SD is now? Or about the credibility of the people who told me they saw and handled it in India? Since they also told me they spoke to his niece, does that prove Einstein ever had a niece? BTW, the most records google can find about Einstein's niece is that she was played by Meg Ryan in the Movie I.Q. (1994). Although, there was a report that Albert Schweitzer wrote a letter to Einstein's niece saying how much he admired her uncle. Other than that, we'll just have to take those Indian ladies' word for it. ;-) Leo From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 17:46:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5549 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 00:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 00:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 00:46:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 00:46:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 00:46:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 351 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: Letter from Theosophy Company to Albert Einstein (dated 9.25.40) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Database record for Call Nr. [40-312.00] See: http://www.alberteinstein.info/db/ViewDetails.do?DocumentID=9488 Call Nr. [40 - 312.00] Dated 09/25/1940 Author THEOSOPHY COMPANY Receiver Einstein, Albert Title First Line Contents Language Location Descriptive Code TL >From Place LOS ANGELES To Place PRINCETON From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 18:31:07 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65333 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 01:31:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 01:31:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 01:31:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.144] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 01:30:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 01:30:53 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1099 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: Einstein's personal library X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell The Albert Einstein Archives Library The Library consists of two main collections. Einstein's private library: Einstein's personal library was transferred to The Jewish National & University Library in 1987, following the death of Einstein's step-daughter, Margot Einstein. The library includes books, musical scores and records collected by Einstein throughout his life. The books deal with science, European and American politics and society, literature and culture, religion and philosophy, Judaism and Israel. The musical scores contain works by Einstein's favorite composers, especially Mozart, Bach, and Handel. The records range from classical music to Israeli folk music. It is not known to what extent the library is complete - no inventory from the years in which Einstein lived is extant. But it is known that Einstein's secretary gave some books away to friends and associates following Einstein's death. Einstein's own books and records are supplemented by those of the other members of the Einstein household. Quoted from: http://alberteinstein.info/finding_aid/ From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 19:49:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38880 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 02:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 02:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 02:49:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 02:49:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 02:49:03 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1061 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.91 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: Leon on Einstein and the Secret Doctrine X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell See the link below for what Leon wrote on "Einstein and the Secret Doctrine" in 2003 on this forum: http://www.theos-talk.com/archives/200301/tt00113.html ALSO compare what Leon says about "three reputable women connected with ULT" with the following: "In checking this information it was learned that a niece of Einstein's, in India during the 1960s, paid a visit to the headquarters of the Theosophical Society at Adyar. She explained that she knew nothing of theosophy or the society, but had to see the place because her uncle always had a copy of Madame Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine on his desk. The individual to whom the niece spoke was Eunice Layton, a world renowned theosophical lecturer who happened to be at the reception desk when she arrived. While in Ojai, California, in 1982, Sylvia Cranston met Mrs. Eunice Layton, who confirmed the story. (Cranston, S. L., HPB;: the extraordinary life and influence of Helena Blavatsky, founder of the modern theosophical movement, G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1993, Notes, Preface, Note 11, 557)" From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Mon May 03 19:49:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5541 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 02:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 02:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 02:49:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 02:49:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 02:49:13 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 780 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "stevestubbs" X-Originating-IP: 4.225.165.66 Subject: Re: Theos-World Neuralsurfer wants to know.... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "netemara888" wrote: > I am not a scholar of Einstein but I did read that huge biography > about him and the thing that gives credence to his being influenced > or impressed by something outside of himself is that he came up with > the theory of special relativity purely by putting himself in the > place in his mental dimension. You are right that this is a commonly received story. It is easily shown, however, that many of the ideas in Einstein's theory were already known before he wrote his first paper and that he synthesized them into something which came to more than the sum of its parts. So the story that he merely visualized himself in an elevator car in outer space does not tell the whole story. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 20:42:49 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55463 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 03:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 03:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 03:42:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.140] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 03:42:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 03:41:58 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 467 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?La_th=E8se_de_Paul_Johnson_sur_l=92identification_des_Ma=EEtres_de_H.P._Blavatsky_?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell La th=E8se de Paul Johnson sur l'identification des Ma=EEtres de H.P. Blavatsky See=20 http://www.moryason.com/fr/05_theosophie/5-5-3-theosophie.htm A reference to my critique of Johnson's book is found at: http://moryason.com/fr/05_theosophie/5-5-3-10-theosophie.htm See especially the title of my book incorporated into a=20 graphic! http://moryason.com/fr/05_theosophie/05_images/chateau_de_cartes.JPG Daniel H. Caldwell http://hpb.cc http://theosophy.info From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon May 03 21:00:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73656 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 04:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 04:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 04:00:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 04:00:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 04:00:33 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1073 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.67 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 63.163.14.41 Subject: A letter of inquiry about Albert Einstein's Private Library X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell I have sent the email below to the relevant archives/library in Israel: Daniel --------------------------------- Monday, May 3, 2004 To whom it may concern: On the following webpage: Einstein's Private Library http://www.albert-einstein.org/.index3.html I find the statement: "The library includes books, musical scores and records collected by Einstein throughout his life. The books deal with science, European and American politics and society, literature and culture, religion and philosophy, Judaism and Israel." Is there a list of the books in Albert Einstein's private library? In particular, does his library contain any works on Theosophy, especially the book titled "The Secret Doctrine" by H.P. Blavatsky. Also is it possible to obtain a copy of the following document: Letter from Theosophy Company to Albert Einstein (dated 9.25.40) http://www.alberteinstein.info/db/ViewDetails.do?DocumentID=9488 Thanking you in advance for your help in these two matters. Daniel H. Caldwell Librarian and researcher danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Tue May 04 03:09:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49375 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 10:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 10:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.164) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 10:09:08 -0000 Received: from versus (200-101-233-143.fnsce7004.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.233.143]) by smtp3.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 22F5D33E63 for ; Tue, 4 May 2004 07:09:01 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <004301c431bf$d3cda200$0301010a@versus> To: References: Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:09:02 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.164 From: "krishtar" Subject: Elvis and HPB:checking X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daniel I do hope you=B4ll get a positive answer very soon. I also heard that Elvis, in his old age, also owned a copy of a certain The= osophical book. I know that he was not the kind of genius of A. Einstein but in american mu= sic he=B4s still a strong rock and roll iconological reference. Maybe we should check, shouldn=B4t we? Krishtar ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Daniel H. Caldwell=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:00 AM Subject: Theos-World A letter of inquiry about Albert Einstein's Private = Library I have sent the email below to the relevant archives/library in=20 Israel: =20=20=20 Daniel --------------------------------- Monday, May 3, 2004 =20=20=20 To whom it may concern: =20=20=20 On the following webpage: Einstein's Private Library http://www.albert-einstein.org/.index3.html =20=20=20 I find the statement: =20=20=20 "The library includes books, musical scores and records collected by=20 Einstein throughout his life. The books deal with science, European=20 and American politics and society, literature and culture, religion=20 and philosophy, Judaism and Israel." =20=20=20 Is there a list of the books in Albert Einstein's private library? =20=20=20 In particular, does his library contain any works on Theosophy, especially the book titled "The Secret Doctrine" by H.P. Blavatsky. =20=20=20 Also is it possible to obtain a copy of the following document: =20=20=20 Letter from Theosophy Company to Albert Einstein (dated 9.25.40) http://www.alberteinstein.info/db/ViewDetails.do?DocumentID=3D9488 Thanking you in advance for your help in these two matters. =20=20=20 Daniel H. Caldwell Librarian and researcher =20=20=20 danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From netemara888@yahoo.com Tue May 04 08:24:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6811 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 15:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 15:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 15:24:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 15:24:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:24:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 836 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.80 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 63.147.240.11 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_La_th=E8se_de_Paul_Johnson_sur_l=92identification_des_Ma=EEtres_de_H.P._Blavatsky?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell"=20 wrote: > La th=E8se de Paul Johnson sur l'identific