From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Mar 01 05:26:51 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48860 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 13:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 13:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.247) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 13:26:49 -0000 Received: from pool0066.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.66] helo=DALLAS) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AxnRG-0000Ve-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:26:31 -0800 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:26:26 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c3ff90$cf229730$428cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799dd0a6777bcff51a78c193a634c54747350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.247 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mar 1st 2004 Re: LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL Dear Friends: Some queries about Karma seem to draw a response along old familiar lines: Here are some answers that might help. How do we distinguish between justice and law One of the Masters wrote: "Every Western Theosophist should learn and remember, especially those of them who would be our followers - that in our Brotherhood all personalities sink into one idea - abstract right and absolute practical justice for all. And that, though we may not say with the Christian, "return good for evil" - we repeat with Confucius, "return good for good; for evil - JUSTICE." ... A dutiful regard for these rules in life will always promote the best interests of all concerned." Mahatma Letters, p. 401, Let # 85 [ No 120 ], January 1884 And in The KEY TO THEOSOPHY HPB says: "Abolish the Courts themselves, for if you would follow the Commandments of Christ, you have to give away your coat to him who deprives you of your cloak, and turn your left cheek to the bully who smites you on the right." Key on p. 55. "Enq: But if by so doing, he risks to injure, or allow others to be injured? What ought he to do then? Theo: His duty; that which his conscience and higher nature suggests to him; but only after mature deliberation. Justice consists in doing no injury to any living being; but justice commands us also never to allow injury to be done to the many, or even to one innocent person, by allowing the guilty one to go unchecked." Key, p. 251 "A man has no right to starve himself to death that another man may have food, unless the life of that man is obviously more useful to the many than is his own life." Key, p. 239 Again, H P B In SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. II says: "Shall we be answered to this, in Congreve's words: -- "But who shall dare to tax Eternal Justice?" Logic and simple common sense, we answer: if we are made to believe in the "original Sin," in one life, on this Earth only, for every Soul, and in an anthropomorphic Deity, who seems to have created some men only for the pleasure of condemning them to eternal hell-fire (and this whether they are good or bad, says the Predestinarian), why should not every man endowed with reasoning powers condemn in his turn such a villainous Deity? Life would become unbearable, if one had to believe in the God created by man's unclean fancy. Luckily he exists only in human dogmas, and in the unhealthy imagination of some poets, . Truly a robust "faith" is required to believe that it is "presumption" to question the justice of one, who creates helpless little man but to "perplex" him, and to test a "faith" with which that "Power," moreover, may have forgotten, if not neglected, to endow him, as happens sometimes. Compare this blind faith with the philosophical belief, based on every reasonable evidence and life-experience, in Karma-Nemesis, or the Law of Retribution. This Law -- whether Conscious or Unconscious -- predestines nothing and no one. It exists from and in Eternity, truly, for it is ETERNITY itself; and as such, since no act can be co-equal with eternity, it cannot be said to act, for it is ACTION itself. It is not the Wave which drowns a man, but the personal action of the wretch, who goes deliberately and places himself under the impersonal action of the laws that govern the Ocean's motion. Karma creates nothing, nor does it design. It is man who plans and creates causes, and Karmic law adjusts the effects; which adjustment is not an act, but universal harmony, tending ever to resume its original position, like a bough, which, bent down too forcibly, rebounds with corresponding vigour. If it happen to dislocate the arm that tried to bend it out of its natural position, shall we say that it is the bough which broke our arm, or that our own folly has brought us to grief? Karma has never sought to destroy intellectual and individual liberty, like the God invented by the Monotheists. It has not involved its decrees in darkness purposely to perplex man; nor shall it punish him who dares to scrutinize its mysteries. On the contrary, he who unveils through study and meditation its intricate paths, and throws light on those dark ways, in the windings of which so many men perish owing to their ignorance of the labyrinth of life, is working for the good of his fellow-men. KARMA is an Absolute and Eternal law in the World of manifestation; and as there can only be one Absolute, as One eternal ever present Cause, believers in Karma cannot be regarded as Atheists or materialists -- still less as fatalists:" for Karma is one with the Unknowable, of which it is an aspect in its effects in the phenomenal world. Intimately, or rather indissolubly, connected with Karma, then, is the law of re-birth, or of the re-incarnation of the same spiritual individuality in a long, almost interminable, series of personalities. The latter are like the various costumes and characters played by the same actor, with each of which that actor identifies himself and is identified by the public, for the space of a few hours. The inner, or real man, who personates those characters, knows the whole time that he is Hamlet for the brief space of a few acts, which represent, however, on the plane of human illusion the whole life of Hamlet. And he knows that he was, the night before, King Lear, the transformation in his turn of the Othello of a still earlier preceding night; but the outer, visible character is supposed to be ignorant of the fact. [ see Key, p. 34] In actual life that ignorance is, unfortunately, but too real. Nevertheless, the permanent individuality is fully aware of the fact, though, through the atrophy of the "spiritual" eye in the physical body, that knowledge is unable to impress itself on the consciousness of the false personality. " S D II 304 - 6 ============================================================= In a pertinent article Mr. Judge wrote: HOW SHOULD WE TREAT OTHERS ? (W Q J Articles, Vol. II, p. 357) The subject relates to our conduct toward and treatment of our fellows, including in that term all people with whom we have any dealings. No particular mode of treatment is given by Theosophy. It simply lays down the law that governs us in all our acts, and declares the consequences of those acts. It is for us to follow the line of action which shall result first in harmony now and forever, and second, in the reduction of the general sum of hate and opposition in thought or act which now darkens the world. The great law which Theosophy first speaks of is the law of karma, and this is the one which must be held in view in considering the question. Karma is called by some the "law of ethical causation," but it is also the law of action and reaction; and in all departments of nature the reaction is equal to the action, and sometimes the reaction from the unseen but permanent world seems to be much greater than the physical act or word would appear to warrant on the physical plane. This is because the hidden force on the unseen plane was just as strong and powerful as the reaction is seen by us to be. The ordinary view takes in but half of the facts in any such case and judges wholly by superficial observation. If we look at the subject only from the point of view of the person who knows not of Theosophy and of the nature of man, nor of the forces Theosophy knows to be operating all the time, then the reply to the question will be just the same as the everyday man makes. That is, that he has certain rights he must and will and ought to protect; that he has property he will and may keep and use any way he pleases; and if a man injure him he ought to and will resent it; that if he is insulted by word or deed he will at once fly not only to administer punishment on the offender, but also try to reform, to admonish, and very often to give that offender up to the arm of the law; that if he knows of a criminal he will denounce him to the police and see that he has meted out to him the punishment provided by the law of man. Thus in everything he will proceed as is the custom and as is thought to be the right way by those who live under the Mosaic retaliatory law. But if we are to inquire into the subject as Theosophists, and as Theosophists who know certain laws and who insist on the absolute sway of karma, and as people who know what the real constitution of man is, then the whole matter takes on, or ought to take on, a wholly different aspect. The untheosophical view is based on separation, the Theosophical upon unity absolute and actual. Of course if Theosophists talk of unity but as a dream or a mere metaphysical thing, then they will cease to be Theosophists, and be mere professors, as the Christian world is today, of a code not followed. If we are separate one from the other the world is right and resistance is a duty, and the failure to condemn those who offend is a distinct breach of propriety, of law, and of duty. But if we are all united as a physical and psychical fact, then the act of condemning, the fact of resistance, the insistence upon rights on all occasions - all of which means the entire lack of charity and mercy - will bring consequences as certain as the rising of the sun tomorrow. What are those consequences, and why are they? They are simply this, that the real man, the entity, the thinker, will react back on you just exactly in proportion to the way you act to him, and this reaction will be in another life, if not now, and even if now felt will still return in the next life. The fact that the person whom you condemn, or oppose, or judge seems now in this life to deserve it for his acts in this life, does not alter the other fact that his nature will react against you when the time comes. The reaction is a law not subject to nor altered by any sentiment on your part. He may have, truly, offended you and even hurt you, and done that which in the eye of man is blameworthy, but all this does not have anything to do with the dynamic fact that if you arouse his enmity by your condemnation or judgment there will be a reaction on you, and consequently on the whole of society in any century when the reaction takes place. This is the law and the fact as given by the Adepts, as told by all sages, as reported by those who have seen the inner side of nature, as taught by our philosophy and easily provable by anyone who will take the trouble to examine carefully. Logic and small facts of one day or one life, or arguments on lines laid down by men of the world who do not know the real power and place of thought nor the real nature of man cannot sweep this away. After all argument and logic it will remain. The logic used against it is always lacking in certain premises based on facts, and while seeming to be good logic, because the missing facts are unknown to the logician, it is false logic. Hence an appeal to logic that ignores facts which we know are certain is of no use in this inquiry. And the ordinary argument always uses a number of assumptions which are destroyed by the actual inner facts about thought, about karma, about the reaction by the inner man. The Master "K.H.," once writing to Mr. Sinnett in the Occult World, and speaking for his whole order and not for himself only, distinctly wrote that the man who goes to denounce a criminal or an offender works not with nature and harmony but against both, and that such act tends to destruction instead of construction. Whether the act be large or small, whether it be the denunciation of a criminal, or only your own insistence on rules or laws or rights, does not alter the matter or take it out of the rule laid down by that Adept. For the only difference between the acts mentioned is a difference of degree alone; the act is the same in kind as the violent denunciation of a criminal. Either this Adept was right or wrong. If wrong, why do we follow the philosophy laid down by him and his messenger, and concurred in by all the sages and teachers of the past? If right, why this swimming in an adverse current, as he said himself, why this attempt to show that we can set aside karma and act as we please without consequences following us to the end of time? I know not. I prefer to follow the Adept, and especially so when I see that what he says is in line with facts in nature and is a certain conclusion from the system of philosophy I have found in Theosophy. I have never found an insistence on my so-called rights at all necessary. They preserve themselves, and it must be true if the law of karma is the truth that no man offends against me unless I in the past have offended against him. In respect to man, karma has no existence without two or more persons being considered. You act, another person is affected, karma follows. It follows on the thought of each and not on the act, for the other person is moved to thought by your act. Here are two sorts of karma, yours and his, and both are intermixed. There is the karma or effect on you of your own thought and act, the result on you of the other person's thought; and there is the karma on or with the other person consisting of the direct result of your act and his thoughts engendered by your act and thought. This is all permanent. As affecting you there may be various effects. If you have condemned, for instance, we may mention some: (a) the increased tendency in yourself to indulge in condemnation, which will remain and increase from life to life; (b) this will at last in you change into violence and all that anger and condemnation may naturally lead to; (c) an opposition to you is set up in the other person, which will remain forever until one day both suffer for it, and this may be in a tendency in the other person in any subsequent life to do you harm and hurt you in the million ways possible in life, and often also unconsciously. Thus it may all widen out and affect the whole body of society. Hence no matter how justifiable it may seem to you to condemn or denounce or punish another, you set up cause for sorrow in the whole race that must work out some day. And you must feel it. The opposite conduct, that is, entire charity, constant forgiveness, wipes out the opposition from others, expends the old enmity and at the same time makes no new similar causes. Any other sort of thought or conduct is sure to increase the sum of hate in the world, to make cause for sorrow, to continually keep up the crime and misery in the world. Each man can for himself decide which of the two ways is the right one to adopt. Self-love and what people call self-respect may shrink from following the Adept's view I give above, but the Theosophist who wishes to follow the law and reduce the general sum of hate will know how to act and to think, for he will follow the words of the Master of H.P.B. who said: "Do not be ever thinking of yourself and forgetting that there are others; for you have no karma of your own, but the karma of each one is the karma of all." And these words were sent by H.P.B. to the American Section and called by her words of wisdom, as they seem also to me to be, for they accord with law. They hurt the personality of the nineteenth century, but the personality is for a day, and soon it will be changed if Theosophists try to follow the law of charity as enforced by the inexorable law of karma. We should all constantly remember that if we believe in the Masters we should at least try to imitate them in the charity they show for our weakness and faults. In no other way can we hope to reach their high estate, for by beginning thus we set up a tendency which will one day perhaps bring us near to their development; by not beginning we put off the day forever. William Brehon, F.T.S. PATH, February, 1896 _____ =================================================== I hope this is of help, Best wishes, Dallas ======================================= [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Mon Mar 01 05:54:06 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1684 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 13:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 13:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 13:54:05 -0000 Received: from versus (200-215-125-138.fnsce7002.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.215.125.138]) by smtp1.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 65F253452 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:53:53 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <004601c3ff94$a2a3eac0$0301010a@versus> To: References: <000901c3ff90$cf229730$428cb3d1@DALLAS> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:53:45 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.163 From: "krishtar" Subject: Re: Theos-World LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi friends Have you ever participated in the e-group called "OriginalMind group"? Has anyone any clue to tell about it? I have received two invitations from it and do not know the "quality" of it. Any impressions welcome. thanks in advance. Krishtar [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From wyatt_ehrenfels@yahoo.com Mon Mar 01 07:55:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: wyatt_ehrenfels@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32526 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 15:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 15:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 15:55:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2004 15:53:53 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:53:51 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1682 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "wyatt_ehrenfels" X-Originating-IP: 207.188.221.98 Subject: Dream Novel -- Fireflies in the Shadow of the Sun, Now Available X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=177497490 X-Yahoo-Profile: wyatt_ehrenfels http://www.fireflySun.com Drawing from his 2,000-typed page, 15-year dream diary, social and spiritual psychologist Wyatt Ehrenfels (Ph.D., 1997) composed an expose/epic dream thriller based on actual dreams and events to depict his struggle against an anti-dream prejudice within departments of psychology. Having his first General Psychology and Personality Theory textbooks by the age of 13, a young Wyatt Ehrenfels, inspired by a vivid childhood dream life, took to CG Jung, reading nearly his collected works by his sophomore year in college. Across three graduate schools, Ehrenfels suffered the indignity of an anti-Jung/anti-dream prejudice and received his Ph.D. under a cloud of political embattlement at the age of 27, going out triumphantly with his wildly popular doctoral dissertation exploring the relationships among dream characteristics, blood chemistry, and coping styles in terminally ill cancer patients. Unable to build a competitive vita as a graduate student under fire, Ehrenfels opted not to pursue a tenure-track teaching/research position in universities, withdrawing from academic life to spearhead an initiative aimed at exposing the complexes and repressions that comprise the "Unconscious" of modern academic communities and that seek to compensate, in classic Jungian style, for elements of the professional culture that undermine an accurate, adequate, and authentic science of the human condition. Toward that end, Ehrenfels amassed a coalition of authors, developing his own web portal and writing his own book (culled from a diary that encompasses years of political imbroglios and concurrent dreams). http://www.fireflySun.com/news.html From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Mar 01 10:12:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44953 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 13:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 13:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.247) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 13:05:32 -0000 Received: from pool0066.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.66] helo=DALLAS) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Axn6N-00046F-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:04:56 -0800 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:04:52 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3ff8d$cb603f60$428cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <4f.3b03e167.2d73d7f5@cs.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b59ce331c63580b0f1faac494bc9ae76350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.247 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] Re: Karmic action as an expression of universal... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Mar 1 2004 Dear John: Many thanks for the links you sent me to see. Mr. Judge in The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY covers mental perceptions pretty well in the last 2 chapters of that book and gives their rationale. But let me quote you a story from the U L T Edition of LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME - Judge p, 150-152 -------------------------------- LETTERS ND THEIR FORERUNNERS I had just finished reading aloud a letter from one of our circle sent from the West the other day, when the Professor arrived, and seeing the student sitting at the end of the table cried, "Oh, my dear fellow, you are just the man I wanted. Your talk about dreams the other day gave me so many new ideas I think I have hit on a poser for you this time." We all became at once very much interested at the prospect of the student's being posed. He is seldom put to flight, for he has a way of waiting until you have said all you wish, and then gives the matter such a turn that his expected defeat is your own Sedan day. This time he looked at the Professor quite straight and laconically ejaculated, "Letters and their forerunners, I presume." A sort of falling of the jaw came to the Professor, and then I knew that again our dear student had posed the other man, and at the same time the voice of the widow whispered in my ear, "I saw a blue light go out of his eyes when old 'Prof.' first spoke." "Why," exclaimed the Professor, "that's it exactly, though I don't quite give it just that title. But how did you know? Pshaw, it was only a guess! It is this way. When I am thinking of a man, and the same day or the same hour receive a letter from him, is there any necessary connection between my thoughts and the getting of the letter?" "There may be, and there may not. It all depends. Perhaps as much connection as between our listening here to a letter being read, your coming in just then, and my putting your query for you, 'by guess' as you say. A close connection is quite possible, and exists in the greater number of such cases. You have heard of the so-called superstition of the 'forerunner' in Scotland and other countries? No, you paid no attention to that? Well, they think that some people have what they call a 'forerunner.' This is often a fleeting image of the person which comes to the house or place to which the original is actually travelling, as if to give warning of the approaching person, but which does not speak. In other cases it is a knock or number of knocks sent on ahead as a kind of courier in advance. It does not forbode death, but is simply a forerunner, the person's own familiar herald. 'Well, it is the same thing with letters. They have their forerunners which travel on in advance, some at a long distance, others not far before. It is a sort of pressure of aura, an aura full of the characteristics of the writer, and given impulse and direction from the very definite thoughts and ideas of the correspondent toward the person written to. But really this is preaching; I don't wish to monopolize the evening." We all drew in our breaths, for this was exactly what we had been talking about one day in the student's absence, and now he provokingly proposed to cut off the explanation at the beginning. So there was chorus of "Go on! Don't do like that. This is not a tea in Society. You can have the evening." "Do you mean," questioned the Professor, with an "I'll-draw him-out" expression, "that certain objects-such, for instance, as letters-have spheres of their own, of an extensible nature, which can and do travel on ahead, where, impinging on the sensorium of the person to whom they are written, they produce an impression or image or thought of the writer in the brain of the individual against whom this sphere impinges?" "That is exactly it,"-and I caught a flying look from the student which telegraphed that he was the one who had paused so as to draw the Professor out and on into the web of his own words, which being in his own style, might the more quickly be accepted by his brain. "The existence of an aura around objects, and especially those belonging to man, has been proved. Letters not only have it on general principles, but also in a specialized state due to the concentration by the writer upon thought, words, and person. It remains with the epistle somewhat in the way a mass of compressed air travels along with a bullet or a cannon ball. This latter is now well known, for by an instantaneous photograph the cushion of the compressed air and the bullet have been distinctly reproduced on the plate. What obtains in physics obtains also in the realm of actual physics, to coin a term. "In some cases I have measured the time this forerunner will reach me, and found it often to be one day, which meant in one case a five-hundred-mile distance and in another one thousand miles." "Then, of course," I said, "each mass of this aura, which must be personal to the writer, carries with it the idea or picture of the friend?" "Yes, this is so with all our thoughts, and we fix them firmly in the letter during the writing. Then the aura is all permeated with our image. and when the brain receives it that image produces an idea about the writer. In some sensitive persons a partial knowledge of the contents of the coming letter is gained, though in most cases only in the vaguest manner. I think we have cumulative proof of this in telepathy and mind-reading." Just here, in the most annoying way, the door-bell began to ring, announcing visitors not in the charmed circle, and both the Professor and the Student pleaded engagements-with each other, I suppose, to continue the conversation as they walked along. TEA-TABLE TALKS Reprint: LETTERS - Judge p, 150-152 -October, 1892 ------------------------------------------- from: Letters -- Judge - pp 143-6 An inquirer writes: "I want to tell you of a little experience I had last week. I would call it a dream, but it is unlike any dream I ever had. It was in the night, of course, and I thought that I- the real I-was standing by the bedside, looking down at my sleeping form. The whole room was light, yet it did not seem like sunlight; it came from no particular point, it cast no shadows; it seemed to be diffused from, or to pervade, all things equally; it was not colored, like sunlight or gaslight-it seemed white, or silvery. Everything was clearly visible: the furniture, the mosquito bar, the brushes on the toilet-table. The form on the bed I recognized distinctly. It was lying as usual, on the right side, the right arm curved under the pillow, my favorite attitude. I seemed to see it even more clearly, more distinctly than the ordinary reflection in the mirror, for whereas there one only has the reflection of a plane surface, here I saw it as a solid, just as I do other people and could also observe the breathing. This did not last more than, perhaps, thirty seconds, but long enough for me to see the body distinctly, to observe and comment upon the fact that the face had an expression of weariness, to note the light as before remarked and some objects in the room. Then all faded away, and after wards-tho' how long, of course I don't know-I awoke and it was day. Was this a dream, or did I remember that much of the excursion of my 'Astral,' and was the light I saw the Astral Light? C." This inquirer was answered, "I believe that what you saw was the remembrance of what really happened. Your astral self got out-as it always does-and looked back at the body. It is more than likely that all that you saw occurred when you were returning to the body, and that is why it was short. We remember distinctly only that which is nearest to us. I think you went out when you fell asleep and then on coming back to wakefulness you kept a recollection of the last few seconds. You do not really forget what you saw and thought while away. It sinks into your upper, or sub-conscious, or super-conscious mind, from which it will all percolate into the thoughts of your waking state. To remember what happens during sleep, is to be a conscious seer. So we only get these useless glimpses of our returning to the body. "We go away in deep dreamless sleep to other spheres and states, where we get ideas and so forth, and the way back is through many different states, all having their denizens and obstructions. Besides that, there are two ways to ascend and descend: the direct and indirect. So, much is lost and mixed up on those two roads. Now I talk of actualities and not sentimentally. "We must be patient. because it takes time to find out how to walk, and much time is spent in getting hold of clues. A great deal depends on purity of thought and motive, and breadth of view." -October, 1887 --------------------------------------------- Quickly thought he could beat that dream: he generally does go us one better, and I don't know that any one envies him some of his occult adventures at least. He was living in New York, and had an acquaintance who was better known to the family of his uncle than to himself. He went to Washington and put up in a private house in R. Street. On the second night he dreamed he was at home and was going in by the basement way in company with the above-named gentleman and his own deceased sister. As they were about entering, the gentleman put his hand on the overhanging stoop, which at once fell upon him, and he disappeared beneath it. Every one in the dream seemed to feel very badly about him. Next day Quickly made a note of the dream in his diary and dismissed it from his mind. Not writing home, he heard nothing about the gentleman, but when he returned to New York he learned that his acquaintance had had a severe fall which brought on an old trouble, and that he had died on the night of the dream. The Professor listened with the genuine "I-know-all-about-it" air, and remarked at the close that the dream was doubtless caused by the events of the man's life passing rapidly through his dying mind, and when he came to his relations with Quickly, that recollection vibrated in connection with Quickly and caused his dream, reaching him all the more rapidly because his physical nature was at the moment quiescent in sleep. I do not doubt myself that this suggestion is a correct clue to all similar occurrences. -March, 1888 ------------------------------------------------- The student * was prevailed on the other night to say some-thing about dreams and dreaming. "Yes, although the greater number of dreams are foolish, we must not despise them utterly, but should discriminate. If we rely on dreams we shall at last become verily superstitious and amen able to punishment by our friends. The fact that nearly all people dream is an enormous fact. For in these dreams, foolish, sad, grave, or prophetic, there is some ego or person or individual who experiences the feelings that we note in dreams and remember afterwards. The same sort of cognitions and sensations is perceived in dreams as when we are awake. Who feels, who suffers and enjoys? is the question. That is what we should consider. But it is true that ----- * By this time, the name "Quickly" was no longer used, Mr. Judge being henceforth referred to simply as "Student" or "X.' '-Eds. -------------------------------------- one may learn the meaning of his own dreams; rare is the man who can say what, if any, meaning the dreaming of another has." -May, 1891 ----------------------------------------------- The student remarked, "Dreams are not understood generally, and most of those we have are forgotten in five minutes after waking up. Job truly said that in the visions of the night man is instructed. That this [the Bishop's dream under discussion] was a day-dream does not alter the case. Bulwer Lytton shows that the first initiations come in dreams. They are nearly always in symbols, for the inner man has no such language as ours. He sees and speaks by pictures. He throws out a thought as a picture. It is for us to grasp it and remember. Each picture is modified by the changing methods of our waking hours of thought. Your friend has well dreamed and well interpreted, and if we were to act upon our dream- teaching when it gives high motive, then we could encourage, as it were, the inner dreamer so that oftener we might get instruction. The Bishop's impulse is to slightly sniff at his relative because he is so practical. Yet he, even, dreams and a great fact is therefore present in his experience-the fact of dreaming. Our dreams present an opportunity to us as waking men and women to so live that the Inner Self may more easily speak to us. For, as with new acquaintances and strange languages, it is necessary to become accustomed to the new forms of speech and thought, so that out of the great confusion reigning at first we may bring order with instruction. The lesson of this dream is for all; it is to throw off the hold of self upon us each in his own way-for all differ-and to abandon all fear. But we cannot do either while we remain impure; as we purify, so we succeed." TEA-TABLE TALKS from: LETTERS -- Judge - pp 143-6 -March, 1892 --------------------------------- There are more incidents narrated, if you are interested let me know and I can send them. Best wishes, Dallas --------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: sambl Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 4:04 PM To:=20 Subject: [bn-study] Re: Karmic action as an expression of universa... Dallas, Thanks as always. I have recently read some fairly unique current era content posted on the Web that is curiously revenant to several questions posted by those you answer correspondence to, and also that of Morten and others.=20 One query seeks a current new presencing and message in today's world based on H.P.B.'s mention of future "Messengers" in our time.=20 Others discuss process of the Ascent of the Mind of Mankind, and also how the Ancient Wisdom is perpetuated and renewed.=20 Although these pages are yet set in concrete proof of validity and they are controversial with positions taken on both sides, they are most=20 stimulating and have a strange resonance with the S.D. we all take pleasure in. John From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Mar 01 10:16:20 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86586 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 18:16:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 18:16:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.247) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 18:16:20 -0000 Received: from pool0276.cvx26-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.223.21] helo=DALLAS) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Axrxd-0000Er-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:16:14 -0800 To: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:16:07 -0800 Message-ID: <000801c3ffb9$47be91d0$15dfb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791a9fffc847610a56ce5a8a70d7d478d7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.247 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Request for comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 March 1 2004 RE: [bn-study] Re: Request for comments KARMA Aphorisms on -- Here is the text of APHORISMS ON KARMA They state very clearly the basis on which our Universe and world operate -- where the moral value of intention has a preeminent power. Best wishes, Dallas ------------------------------------------------- APHORISMS ON KARMA (1) There is no Karma unless there is a being to make it or feel its effects. (2) Karma is the adjustment of effects flowing from causes, during which the being upon whom and through whom that adjustment is effected experiences pain or pleasure. (3) Karma is an undeviating and unerring tendency in the Universe to restore equilibrium, and it operates incessantly. (4) The apparent stoppage of this restoration to equilibrium is due to the necessary adjustment of disturbance at some other spot, place, or focus which is visible only to the Yogi, to the Sage, or the perfect Seer: there is therefore no stoppage, but only a hiding from view. (5) Karma operates on all things and beings from the minutest conceivable atom to Brahma. Proceeding in the three worlds men, gods, and the elemental beings, no spot in the manifested universe is exempt from its sway. (6) Karma is not subject to time, and therefore he who knows what is the ultimate division of time in this Universe knows Karma. (7) For all other men Karma is in its essential nature unknown and unknowable. (8) But its action may be known by calculation from cause to effect; and this calculation is possible because the effect is wrapped up in and is not succedent to the cause. (9) The Karma of this earth is the combination of the acts and thoughts of all beings of every grade which were concerned in the preceding Manvantara or evolutionary stream from which ours flows. (10) And as those beings include Lords of Power and Holy Men, as well as weak and wicked ones, the period of the earth's duration is greater than that of any entity or race upon it. (11) Because the Karma of this earth and its races began in a past too far back for human minds to reach, an inquiry into its beginning is useless and profitless. (12) Karmic causes already set in motion must be allowed to sweep on until exhausted, but this permits no man to refuse to help his fellows and every sentient being. (13) The effects may be counteracted or mitigated by the thoughts and acts of oneself or of another, and then the resulting effects represent the combination and interaction of the whole number of causes involved in producing the effects. (14) In the life of worlds, races, nations, and individuals, Karma cannot act unless there is an appropriate instrument provided for its action. (15) And until such appropriate instrument is found, that Karma related to it remains unexpended. (16) While a man is experiencing Karma in the instrument provided, his other unexpended Karma is not exhausted through other beings or means, but is held reserved for future operation; and lapse of time during which no operation of that Karma is felt causes no deterioration in its force or change in its nature. (17) The appropriateness of an instrument for the operation of Karma consists in the exact connection and relation of the Karma with the body, mind, intellectual and psychical nature acquired for use by the Ego in any life. (18) Every instrument used by any Ego in any life is appropriate to the Karma operating through it. (19) Changes may occur in the instrument during one life so as to make it appropriate for a new class of Karma, and this may take place in two ways: (a) through intensity of thought and the power of a vow, and (b) through natural alterations due to complete exhaustion of old causes. (20) As body and mind and soul have each a power of independent action, any one of these may exhaust, independently of the others, some Karmic causes more remote from or nearer to the time of their inception than those operating through other channels. (21) Karma is both merciful and just. Mercy and Justice are only opposite poles of a single whole; and Mercy without Justice is not possible in the operations of Karma. That which man calls Mercy and Justice is defective, errant, and impure. (22) Karma may be of three sorts: (a) presently operative in this life through the appropriate instruments; (b) that which is being made or stored up to be exhausted in the future; Karma held over from past life or lives and not operating yet because inhibited by inappropriateness of the instrument in use by the Ego, or by the force of Karma now operating. (23) Three fields of operation are used in each being by Karma: (a) the body and the circumstances; (b) the mind and intellect; the psychic and astral planes. (24) Held-over Karma or present Karma may each, or both at once, operate in all of the three fields of Karmic operation at once, or in either of those fields a different class of Karma from that using the others may operate at the same time. (25) Birth into any sort of body and to obtain the fruits of any sort of Karma is due to the preponderance of the line of Karmic tendency. (26) The sway of Karmic tendency will influence the incarnation of an Ego, or any family of Egos, for three lives at least, when measures of repression, elimination, or counteraction are not adopted. (27) Measures taken by an Ego to repress tendency, eliminate defects, and to counteract by setting up different causes, will alter the sway of Karmic tendency and shorten its influence in accordance with the strength or weakness of the efforts expended in carrying out the measures adopted. (28) No man but a sage or true seer can judge another's Karma. Hence while each receives his deserts, appearances may deceive, and birth into Poverty or heavy trial may not be punishment for bad Karma, for Egos continually incarnate into poor surroundings where they experience difficulties and trials which are for the discipline of the Ego and result in strength, fortitude, and sympathy. (29) Race-Karma influences each unit in the race through the law of Distribution. National Karma operates on the members of the nation by the same law more concentrated. Family Karma governs only with a nation where families have been kept pure and distinct; for in any nation where there is a mixture of family - as obtains in each Kaliyuga period - family Karma is in general distributed over a nation. But even at such periods some families remain coherent for long periods, and then the members feel the sway of family Karma. The word "family" may include several smaller families. (30) Karma operates to produce cataclysms of nature by concatenation through the mental and astral planes of being. A cataclysm may be traced to an immediate physical cause such as internal fire and atmospheric disturbance, but these have been brought on by the disturbance created through the dynamic power of human thought. (31) Egos who have no Karmic connection with a portion of the globe where a cataclysm is coming on are kept without the latter's operation in two ways: (a) by repulsion acting on their inner nature, and (b) by being called and warned by those who watch the progress of the world. Path, March, 1893 =20 -- W Q Judge ---------------------------------------------------------- Best wishes, DTB =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Dallas -----Original Message----- From: LeonMaurer@aol.com [mailto:LeonMaurer@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:50 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: Request for comments With reference to this conversation re: Karma and gratitude, and considering=20 all the doubletalk, maybe we should all reread William Q. Judge's "Aphorisms=20 on Karma" which can be found at: http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/AphKarma.htm --- Distributed by Reed Carson P.O. Box 160 Windham NY 12496 USA You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-7560482L@lists.lyris.net From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Mar 01 10:56:13 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13892 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 18:56:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2004 18:56:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.247) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 18:56:12 -0000 Received: from pool0276.cvx26-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.223.21] helo=DALLAS) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AxsWU-0004lm-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:52:15 -0800 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c3ffbe$4fd90e40$15dfb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <004601c3ff94$a2a3eac0$0301010a@versus> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791d816571eb5b15840e3f6c4f821441cd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.247 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: MEDITATION and LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 March 1 2004 RE: MEDITATION and LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL Dear Friends: In the BHAGAVAD GITA ( pp. 45 -49) Sri Krishna, in Chapter 6 offers a simp= le recipe for a magnetically insulated "seat" to be used by the devotees wh= o desire to mediate on the Supreme Spirit.. This may be an outer expression of an inner resolution and definition, and = this ought to be sought for in the "heart" of the devotee by himself. ----------------------------------------- "The man who hath spiritual knowledge and discernment, who standeth upon th= e pinnacle, and hath subdued the senses, to whom gold and stone are the sam= e, is said to be devoted.=20 And he is esteemed among all who, whether amongst his friends and companion= s, in the midst of enemies or those who stand aloof or remain neutral, with= those who love and those who hate, and in the company of sinners or the ri= ghteous, is of equal mind.=20 "He who has attained to meditation should constantly strive to stay at rest= in the Supreme, ------------FOOTNOTE ------------------------------ * In this play upon "self" the Higher and the lower self are meant, in that= the lower is the enemy of the Higher through its resistance to true develo= pment; and the lower self is at the same time the enemy of its own best int= erests through its downward tendency. ---------------------------------------------------------- remaining in solitude and seclusion, having his body and his thoughts under= control, without possessions and free from hope. He should in an undefiled= spot place his seat, firm, neither too high nor too low, and made of kusa = grass which is covered with a skin and a cloth. *=20 There, for the self's purification he should practice meditation with his m= ind fixed on one point, the modifications of the thinking principle control= led and the action of the senses and organs restrained.=20 Keeping his body, head, and neck firm and erect, with mind determined, and = gaze directed to the tip of his nose without looking in any direction, with= heart at peace and free from fear, the Yogee should remain, settled in the= vow of a Brahmacharya, his thoughts controlled, and heart fixed on me. The= devotee of controlled mind who thus always bringeth his heart to rest in t= he Supreme reacheth that ------------------------FOOTNOTE------------------------------- * These directions are for those hermits who have retired from the world. M= any of the translators have variously construed the text; one reads that th= e devotee has "only skin and sheet to cover him and grass to lie upon"; ano= ther that "his goods are a cloth and deerskin and kusa grass." "Those who k= now" say that this is a description of a magnetically arranged seat and tha= t kusa grass is laid on the ground, the skin on the grass, and the cloth on= the skin. Philological discussion will never decide the point.=20 --------------------------------------------------------- tranquility, the supreme assimilation with me.=20 "This divine discipline, Arjuna, is not to be attained by the man who eatet= h more than enough or too little, nor by him who hath a habit of sleeping m= uch, nor by him who is given to overwatching.=20 The meditation which destroyeth pain is produced in him who is moderate in = eating and in recreation, of moderate exertion in his actions, and regulate= d in sleeping and waking. When the man, so living, centers his heart in the true Self and is exempt f= rom attachment to all desires, he is said to have attained to Yoga.=20 Of the sage of self-centered heart, at rest and free from attachment to des= ires, the simile is recorded, 'as a lamp which is sheltered from the wind f= lickereth not.' When regulated by the practice of yoga and at rest, seeing = the self by the self, he is contented; when he becometh acquainted with tha= t boundless bliss which is not connected with objects of the senses, and be= ing where he is not moved from the reality; *having gained which he conside= reth no other superior to it, and in which, -------------------------FOOTNOTE------------------------------ * "Reality," Nirvana and also complete realization of the True and the disa= ppearance of the illusion as to objects and separateness.=20 --------------------------------------------------------------- being fixed, he is not moved even by the greatest grief; know that this dis= connection from union with pain is distinguished as yoga, spiritual union o= r devotion, which is to be striven after by a man with faith and steadfastl= y.=20 "When he hath abandoned every desire that ariseth from the imagination and = subdued with the mind the senses and organs which impel to action in every = direction, being possessed of patience, he by degrees finds rest; and, havi= ng fixed his mind at rest in the true Self, he should think of nothing else= .=20 To whatsoever object the inconstant mind goeth out he should subdue it, bri= ng it back, and place it upon the Spirit.=20 Supreme bliss surely cometh to the sage whose mind is thus at peace; whose = passions and desires are thus subdued; who is thus in the true Self and fre= e from sin. He who is thus devoted and free from sin obtaineth without hind= rance the highest bliss=E2=80=95union with the Supreme Spirit.=20 The man who is endued with this devotion and who seeth the unity of all thi= ngs perceiveth the Supreme Soul in all things and all things in the Supreme= Soul. He who seeth me in all things and all things in me looseneth not his= hold on me and I forsake him not.=20 And whosoever, believing in spiritual unity, worshipeth me who am in all th= ings, dwelleth with me in whatsoever condition he may be. He, O Arjuna, who= by the similitude found in himself seeth but one essence in all things, wh= ether they be evil or good, is considered to be the most excellent devotee.= " BHAGAVAD GITA , Ch. 6, pp. 45-49 ---------------------------------------- Additionally in NOTES ON THE BHAGAVAD BHAGAVAD GITA( pp. 126-131) Mr. Judge= writes on meditation: -- --------------------------------------- "Renunciation, equal-mindedness, true meditation, the golden mean in action= , the unity of all things, the nature of rebirth and the effect of devotion= upon it and devachan, are all touched upon.=20 It is a most practical chapter which would benefit students immensely if fu= lly grasped and followed. The mistakes made many thousand years ago by disc= iples were the same as those of today. Today, just as then, there are those= who think true renunciation consists in doing nothing except for themselve= s, in retiring from active duties, and in devoting their attention to what = they are pleased to call self-development.=20 On the other hand are those who mistake incessant action for true devotion.= The true path is between these two.=20 The forsaking of worldly action=E2=80=95 called sannyas =E2=80=95 is the sa= me as what is known in Europe as the monastic life, especially in some very= ascetic orders. Adopted selfishly under a mistaken notion of duty it canno= t be true devotion. It is merely an attempt to save oneself. The course ado= pted by some theosophical students very much resembles this erroneous metho= d, although it is practiced in the freedom of the world and not behind mona= stery walls.=20 To be a true renouncer of action and a devotee one must put the problem on = another plane.=20 On the physical brain plane there is no way of reconciling a contradiction = such as appears to exist in the direction to perform actions and yet renoun= ce their performance. It is exactly here that many readers of the Bhagavad-= Gita stop and are confused. They have for so long been accustomed to thinki= ng of the physical and living in it, the terms used for their thought are s= o material in their application, that, seeing this contradiction, they say = that the book will not benefit them.=20 But considering the difficulty from the view that the real actor is the min= d, that acts are not the dead outward expressions of them, but are the thou= ghts themselves, we can see how one can be both a renouncer and a devotee, = how we can outwardly perform every action, multitudes of them, being as act= ive as anyone who is wrapped up in worldly pursuits, and yet be ourselves u= nattached and unaffected.=20 Duty and the final imperative =E2=80=95 the =E2=80=9Cwhat ought I to do=E2= =80=9D=E2=80=95 comes in here and becomes a part of the process. The action= s to be performed are not any and every one. We are not to go on heedlessly= and indiscriminately doing everything that is suggested. We must discover = what actions ought to be performed by us and do them for that reason and no= t because of some result we expect to follow. The fact that we may be perfe= ctly certain of the result is no reason for allowing our interest to fasten= upon that. Here again is where certain theosophists think they have a grea= t difficulty. They say that knowing the result one is sure to become intere= sted in it. But this is the very task to be essayed -- to so hold one's min= d and desires as not to be attached to the result.=20 By pursuing this practice true meditation is begun and will soon become per= manent. For one who watches his thoughts and acts, so as to perform those t= hat ought to be done, will acquire a concentration in time which will incre= ase the power of real meditation. It is not meditation to stare at a spot o= n the wall for a fixed period, or to remain for another space of time in a = perfectly vacuous mental state which soon runs into sleep.=20 All those things are merely forms which in the end will do no lasting good.= But many students have run after these follies, ignoring the true way. The= truth is that the right method is not easy; it requires thought and mental= effort, with persistency and faith. Staring at spots and such miscalled oc= cult practices are very easy in comparison with the former.=20 However, we are human and weak. As such we require help, for the outer self= cannot succeed in the battle. So Krishna points out that the lower self is= to be raised up by the help of the higher; that the lower is, as it were, = the enemy of the higher, and we must not allow the worse to prevail. It wil= l all depend upon self-mastery.=20 The self below will continually drag down the man who is not self-conquered= . This is because that lower one is so near the thick darkness that hangs a= bout the lower rungs of evolution's ladder it is partly devil. Like a heavy= weight it will drag into the depths the one who does not try to conquer hi= mself.=20 But on its other side the self is near to divinity, and when conquered it b= ecomes the friend and helper of the conqueror.=20 The Sufis, the Mohammedan mystical sect, symbolize this in their poetry rel= ating to the beautiful woman who appears but for a moment at the window and= then disappears. She refuses to open the door to her lover as long as he r= efers to their being separate; but when he recognizes their unity then she = becomes his firm friend.=20 The next few verses in the G=C3=AEta outline that which is extremely diffic= ult =E2=80=95 equal-mindedness, and intentness upon the Supreme Being in he= at and cold, pleasure and pain, success and failure. We cannot reach to thi= s easily, perhaps not in many lives, but we can try. Every effort we make i= n that direction will be preserved in the inner nature and cannot be lost a= t death. It is a spiritual gain, the riches laid up in heaven to which Jesu= s referred.=20 To describe the perfection of equal-mindedness is to picture an adept of th= e highest degree, one who has passed beyond all worldly considerations and = lives on higher planes. Gold and stones are the same to him. The objects he= seeks to accomplish are not to be reached through gold, and so it and the = pebbles have the same value. He is also so calm and free from delusion of m= ind and soul that he remains the same whether with enemies or friends, with= the righteous or the sinners.=20 This high condition is therefore set before us as an ideal to be slowly but= steadfastly striven after so that in the course of time we may come near i= t. If we never begin we will never accomplish, and it is far better to adop= t this high ideal, even though failing constantly, than to have no ideal wh= atever.=20 But some are likely to make a mistake herein. Indeed they have done so. The= y set up the ideal, but in a too material and human manner. Then they thoug= ht to walk on the chosen path by outward observance, by pretending to regar= d gold and stones as the same to them, while in their hearts they preferred= the gold.=20 Their equal-mindedness they confined to other people's affairs, while they = displeased and alarmed all relatives and friends by the manner of riding th= is hobby and by wrong neglect of obvious duty. Truly they sought for equal-= mindedness, but failed to see that it can only be acquired through right pe= rformance of duty, and not by selecting the duties and environments that pl= ease us." BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES, pp. 126-131 -------------------------------------- It must be remembered that Krishna came as a reformer of Brahmanism and liv= ed over 5,000 years ago -- at the time when cycles changed and Kali-Yuga be= gan.=20=20 We might conclude that His mighty words and ideas will resound down the age= s in one form or another for the following 427,000 y\ears (the cycle of the= Kali Yuga is 432,000 years).=20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: krishtar Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:54 AM To:=20 Subject: MEDITATION and LAW - PERSONAL and IMPERSONAL Hi friends Have you ever participated in the e-group called "OriginalMind group"? Has anyone any clue to tell about it? I have received two invitations from it and do not know the "quality" of it= . Any impressions welcome. thanks in advance. Krishtar From krishtar_a@brturbo.com Tue Mar 02 01:29:41 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: krishtar_a@brturbo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6203 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2004 09:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2004 09:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.brturbo.com) (200.199.201.180) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2004 09:29:40 -0000 Received: from versus (200-101-233-003.fnsce7004.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.233.3]) by smtp4.brturbo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 04C5133E79 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:26:58 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <003801c40038$e27fa040$0301010a@versus> To: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:29:38 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.199.201.180 From: "krishtar" Subject: originalmind group X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162542652 X-Yahoo-Profile: krishtar_a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi friends Has anyone of you ever participated in the e-group called "OriginalMind group"? Has anyone any clue to tell about it? I have received two invitations from it and do not know the "quality" of it. Any impressions welcome. thanks in advance. Krishtar [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Mar 02 16:47:22 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68074 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 00:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 00:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.248) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 00:47:21 -0000 Received: from pool0379.cvx28-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.129.124] helo=DALLAS) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyKWy-0002Ps-00; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:46:37 -0800 To: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:46:30 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c400b8$fbadf280$7c81b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790fdff9389334c1fe391ab112b1c79fef350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.248 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: [bn-study] Gratitude X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mar 2 2004, Dear Laura: Your quote from Robert Crosbie "If we are developing the child-heart; If we are learning to love things beautiful; If we are becoming more honest and plain and simple; If we are beginning to sense the sweet side of life; f we are getting to like our friends better and extending the circle; If we feel ourselves expanding in sympathy This is traveling on The Path." Robert Crosbie reminds me of this: "Of teachers there are many, the Master Soul is ONE, Alaya, the Universal Soul. Live in that Mater as its ray in thee. Live in thy fellows as they live in it." Voice p. 54 Of course you are right, a teacher opens doors and windows and helps us to remember the past knowledge / wisdom we acquired over an immensity of years -- all that the MONAD has passed through and experienced. But, apparently there are deeper waters to plumb - the MIND is now awake and needs "breadth and depth, and points to draw it towards the Diamond Soul.beyond illusion [to] search the eternal and the changeless SAT..." Voice 28 A page earlier (27) the pupil addresses the Guru: "O Teacher ." And after mind is awake and controlled and directed, is there not then the INTUITION ? So there a number of ways of looking at the word. But the inner Master is a most important concept - and while an "outside Master" always helps when the present personality needs, the Inner Master is there continually as friend and advisor ( S D II 167). At least that is how I see it. In the regard HPB wrote: "I never gave myself out for a full-blown occultist, but only for a student of Occultism for the last thirty or forty years. Yet I am enough of an occultist to know that before we find the Master within our own hearts and seventh principle--we need an outside Master...I got my drop from my Master (the living one)...He is a Saviour, he who leads you to finding the Master within yourself. It is ten years already that I preach the inner Master and God and never represented our Masters as Saviours in the Christian sense." [ HPB to Dr. Hartmann ] PATH, Vol. X, p. 367 "...as I venerate the Master, and worship MY MASTER--the sole creator of my inner Self which but for His calling it out, awakening it from its slumber, would never have come to conscious being--not in this life, at all events..." Letters of HPB to APS, p. 104 Best wishes, Dallas ---------------------------- Part 1 H P B and the MASTERS ===================== "The theory is widely known among the members of the Society that at the close of each century a spiritual movement is made in the world by the Mahatmas, which begins with the last 25 years of the century and does not in that form begin after the close of 25 years until the last quarter of the following period...The Mas-ters are governed by the law of action and reaction and are wise enough always not to do that which might result in undoing all their prior work. The law of reaction applies as much to the mind of man as to physical things and forces. ... In the West, following the historical cycles, a great and definite effort is made among the people--for instance, as the Theosophical Society--so as to aid the psychical and spiritual development in man..." "At the end of the 25 years the Masters will not send out in such wide and sweeping volume the force they send during the 25 years. But that does not mean they will withdraw. They will leave the ideas to germinate in the minds of people at large, but never will they take away from those who deserve it the help that is due and given to all... During all the centuries there have been many persons who have had direct and valuable help from Mas-ters, and to suppose that at the end of our first 25 years all of that will be finished is an absurdity in itself." WQJ ART, II 76-7 ======================== Recently there have been some queries and controversy concerning H P B -- The questions is asked: Is she alive or is she dead? Perhaps some of these quotations about her and her work given from the perspective of the MASTERS OF WISDOM -- the ELDER BROTHERS -- will be of help. Theosophy has been called a history of the development of the spiritual nature of mankind. On this, Patanjali, an ancient sage wrote: "The Universe, including the visible and the invisible, the essential nature of which is compounded of purity, action, and rest, and which consists of the elements and the organs of action, exists for the sake of the soul's experience and emancipation.. The soul is the Perceiver; is assuredly vision itself pure and simple; unmodified; and looks directly upon ideas. For the sake of the soul alone, the Universe exists. Although the Universe in its objective state has ceased to be, in respect to that man who has attained to the perfection of spiritual cultivation, it has not ceased in respect to all others, because it is common to others besides him. The conjuncture of the soul with the organ of thought, and thus with nature, is the cause of its apprehension of the actual condition of the nature of the universe and of the soul itself. The cause of this conjuncture is what is what is to be quitted, and that cause is ignorance." PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS, pp. 25-27 rendition by W. Q. Judge More importantly, the contention has been that Theosophy as a body of information and historical facts is inaccurate, even deceptive. Detractors have raised old calumnies and slanders that were put quashed, and put to rest, decades back, but they, the modern detractors, depend on the ignorance and apathy of the public in the matter of determining the truth by reference to the documents that embody the history of events concerning Theosophy, and its significant effect on Science, and world thought. Each reader or investigator has to make their own decisions. They have to do the investigation themselves, or, they place unverified trust on the dicta of others. The Masters have offered the necessary criteria for us to consider in regard to Theosophical methods of work and personal duty: "A band of students of the Esoteric Doctrines, who would reap any profit spiritually must be in perfect harmony and unity of thought. Each one individually and collectively has to be utterly unselfish, kind and full of good-will towards each other at least--leaving humanity out of the question; there must be no party spirit among the band, no backbiting, no ill-will, or envy or jealousy, contempt or anger." LETTERS from the MASTERS OF WISDOM, (I) p. 16-7 Others believe that the SPIRIT which incarnated in that body, known to all as Mme. H. P. Blavatsky, continues, alive and powerful -- depending on her wisdom -- Deathless, they claim the immortal Spirit continues its majestic progress, ever onward to higher and wider spheres of wisdom and assistance to the Human Race. And as the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT was founded to provide this, it is continually supported by H P B. Such Beings as the Masters of Wisdom, and, that bright Spirit known to us as H P B, once like we, determined that they would know all that this world and Universe offered. They decided to investigate the hidden laws and powers of interactive Nature. Theosophy is the record of their endeavour. The SECRET DOCTRINE give an outline of its breadth and depth. [see SECRET DOCTRINE I 272-3] The fundamental doctrines of Theosophy are: 1.) the immortality of all Spiritual Souls; 2.) the common bond of Karma which serves as a basis for interaction, as it unites the causal motive for action with the exact results returning to the individual that generated them; 3.) a process of evolution that is continuous and extends from the smallest part of the vast UNIVERSE to its utmost limits, the least has the same potentials of the most advanced; and 4.) a common goal: SPIRITUAL PERFECTION, which is open to all, and embraces all that can be known of the Universe and its uncountable components. That is Universal WISDOM. It is hoped that some of the information given below will tend to make clear an understanding of the respect given to H P B by some of her contemporaries, and by Those whom she named her "Masters." ============================================= H P B -- Her Mission and "Position" As we look back at the life and work of H. P. Blavatsky, we her students, recall with gratitude the debt that we owe to her. Except for her work and devotion we would possibly never have had the opportunity that has been ours to know about Theosophy, and to be able to study it. A number of her students have left on record their appreciation. "...the [Theosophical] movement has grown most in consequence of the effort of those who are devoted to an ideal, inspired by enthusiasm, filled with a lasting gratitude to H.P.Blavatsky. Their ideal is the service of Humanity, the ultimate potential perfectibility of man as exemplified by the Masters and Adepts of all ages, includ-ing the present...if it had not been for her the T.S. with its literature would not have come into existence." (W Q Judge, Articles (U L T) Vol. II 20-1) One may ask if there is a possibility of our contacting the Masters and HPB, and the answer is that we have their philosophy and teachings as they were originally recorded. Anyone who studies those puts themselves into contact with HPB and the Masters. A student once wrote: "...for those who have studied in the right way plenty of proof has been offered; for others that proof exists within themselves The former class has had tangible evidence in the way of letters and appearances of the Adepts before their eyes; the latter concluded long ago that the Masters are necessities of evolution...in the West the idea of the existence of the Adepts and of Their connection with our movement was first brought for-ward in this century [the 19th] and in our Society by H.P.Blavatsky, who, consistently throughout her career, has declared that the Adepts--whom she was pleased to call her Masters--directed her to engage in this work and have always helped and directed her throughout... They have adopted the TS as one of Their agents in this century for disseminating the truth about man and nature...Their motive is to help the moral--and hence external -- progress of humanity, and their methods to work from behind the scenes by means of agents suited for the work...the agency is not restricted to one person, but that all sincere lovers of truth are used to that end, whether they know it or not...the personal effort put forth by the members will not account for the spread-ing of the movement...As the Masters exist, so They help us; and as we deserve, so will They repay." (WQJ ARTICLES (ULT) Vol. II pp. 79-80) "...while the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT of today was distinctly under the care of the Adepts, it was not the only one through which effect was sought to be made on the race-thought and ethics, but that in many different ways efforts were constantly put forward ...she insisted that the T S wears the badge...of the Eastern and Anci-ent Schools...the old and united Lodge of Adepts ...[It would be reasonable to say]...that Brotherhood has the knowledge and pow-er... to use every agency which is in touch with humanity." WQJ ARTICLES (ULT) Vol. , Vol. I, pp. 244 Mr. W. Q. Judge, collaborated closely with HPB and Col. Olcott from the beginning of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY and was one of the three Founders of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY [BLAVATSKY: Collected Works, Vol. I, p. 121-5] who supported it until their death, wrote: "I think that the way for all western theosophists is through H.P.B. I mean that as she is the T.S. incarnate--its mother and guardian, its creator--the Karmic laws would naturally provide that all who drew this life through her belonged to her, and if they denied her, they need not hope to reach [Masters], for how can they deny her who gave this doctrine to the western world? They share her Karma to little purpose if they think they can get round this identification and benefit, and [Masters] want no better proof that a man does not comprehend their philosophy. This would, of course, bar him from [Masters] by natural laws (of growth)...[those] who undervalue her gift and her creation, have not imbibed the teaching and cannot assimilate its benefits. She must be understood as being what she is to the T.S., or Karma...is not understood, nor the first laws of occultism." LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME , p. 110 After the physical death of Mme. Blavatsky on May 8th 1891, in answer to a friend, he wrote: "...we believe that H.P.B. will be for some time occupied in training a new instrument, and one not so young as to be useless at the present cyclic crisis...she left everything in order. All things were planned out, and evidence was abundantly had to the effect that she knew her departure was near... looking upon her as an Adept, whose chief work was done outside of the objective body, it was reasonable to suppose that she is now enabled to use, upon higher (or inner) planes of being, the power previously expended in the maintenance of that body." LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, p. 155 [U L T Edition] HPB had written in this regard: "That for several years I will not be able to help it [the T S] on, and steer its course, because I will have to act in a body which will have to be assimilated to the Nirmanakaya, be-cause even in occultism there are such things as a failure and a retardment and a misfit..." HPB - LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME , p. 281 In another article, Mr. Judge wrote: "...but H.P.Blavatsky, who then as afterwards was really the central figure, has for the present left this life. The first great change, then, between seventeen years ago and now is the removal from the scene of the personage who, for so long was the pivot of the whole movement...[in 1879] upon the advent of the two pioneers in Asia [ HPB and Col. Olcott, who went to India as a Committee for the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY based in New York ] ...in order that the influence of the mysterious and distant East might react upon the West and enable us to bring to light again important religious and philosophical truths. This reac-tion came, and manifesting in America with full force, a host of Branches began to arise...all with one accord must draw their chief inspiration from the life, the labors, and the words of that wonderful and still faintly understood woman, Helena, P. Blavatsky." WQJ Art. II 148 "SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO," Path, Nov. 1892 Regarding HPB, the Adepts wrote: "...They say that the Ego of that body she uses was and is a great and brave servant of the Lodge, sent to the West with a mission with full knowledge of the insult and obloquy to be sure-ly heaped upon that devoted head; and they add: 'Those who can-not understand her had best not try to explain her; those who do not find themselves strong enough for the task she outlined from the very first had best not attempt it.' " WQJ ART II 18) And Mr. Judge added: "[As to H. P. B.]. those who cannot understand her had best not try to explain her...she knew...that high and wise servants of the Lodge have remained with the West since many centuries for the purpose of helping it on its mission and destiny. That work it would be well for members of the T. Mvt. to continue without de-viating, without excitement, without running to extremes...the truth of the soul's life is in no special quarter of the com-pass..." (LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME , p. 76) According to HPB: "...there are certain persons on this earth, living and working as ordinary human beings and members of society, whose informing divine part is so immeasurably high in development that they as such high beings have a definite status and function in the "supersensuous regions." To this Mr Judge added: "...she herself was such a case, and that "H P B" whether hourly in the day or at night when all around was still, had a "status and function" in other spheres where she consciously carried on the work of that high station, whatever it was...[She wrote in one place] " I am conscious day and night, and have much to do and to endure in both these existences from which you, being half-conscious, are happily saved." WQJ ART I 616 What then was the nature of HPB's Mission? The following is one person's view: "...when the great leader is H.P.Blavatsky, a whole host of principles and postulates as to certain laws of nature cluster around her name. For not only was she one who brought to us from the wiser brothers of the human family a consistent philosophy of the solar system, but in herself she illustrated practically the existence of the supersensuous world and of the powers of the inner and astral man...and theory or assertion touching on her relations with the unseen and with the Masters she spoke for in-evitably opens up the discussion of some law or principle. Many things were said about H.P.B. in her lifetime by those who tried to understand her, some of them being silly and some positively pernicious. The most pernicious was that made by [A.P.S.] in London in the lifetime of H.P.B. and before the writing of the Secret Doctrine, that she was deserted by the Masters and was the prey of elementals and elemental forces...if true, then anything she might say as from the Masters which did not agree with the opinion of the one addressed could be disposed of as being only the vaporing of some elementals." WQJ ARTICLES (ULT) Vol. II 13 "H.P.Blavatsky was the head, front, bottom, top, outskirts, past and future of the theosophical society...Not only was H.P.B. predominant with us in 1875, but she is yet." WQJ Art II 161 "A Reminiscence," PATH, Feb. 1893 / Mar. 1895 HOW DO THE MASTERS LOOK AT H.P.B.? Regarding HPB, the Adepts wrote: "...They say that the Ego of that body she uses was and is a great and brave servant of the Lodge, sent to the West with a mission with full knowledge of the insult and obloquy to be sure-ly heaped upon that devoted head; and they add: 'Those who can-not understand her had best not try to explain her; those who do not find themselves strong enough for the task she outlined from the very first had best not attempt it.' " WQJ ART II 18) "...imperfect as may be our visible agent...yet, she [HPB] is the best available at present, and her phenomena have for about half a century astounded and baffled some of the cleverest minds of the age." MAHATMA LETTERS , p. 9-10 "After nearly a century of fruitless search, our chiefs had to avail themselves of the only opportunity to send out a Euro-pean body upon European soil to serve as a connecting link bet-ween that country and our own...my brother M. made to you through her a certain offer...you had but to accept it, and at any time you liked, you would have had for an hour or more, the real baitchooly to converse with, instead of the psychological cripple you generally have to deal with now." M L 203-4 "On the 17th of November next [1882] the septenary term of trial given the Society at its foundation in which to discreetly "preach us" will expire. One or two of us hoped that the world had so far advanced intellectually, if not intuitionally, that the Occult doctrine might gain an intellectual acceptance, and the impulse given for a new cycle of occult research...consent was given for the trial. It was stipulated, however, that the experiment should be made independently of our personal manage-ment; that there should be no abnormal interference by our-selves. So casting about we found in America the man to stand as leader--a man of great moral courage, unselfish, and having other good qualities. He was far from being the best, but...he was the best available. With him we associated a woman of most excep-tional and wonderful endowments. Combined with them she had strong personal defects, but just as she was, there was no second to her living fit for this work. We sent her to America, brought them together--and the trial began. >From the first both he and she were given to clearly understand that the issue lay entirely with themselves. And both offered themselves for the trial...For 6 1/2 years they have been struggling against such odds as would have driven off any one who was not working with the desperation of one who stakes life and all he prizes on some desperate su-preme effort. Their success has not equaled the hopes of their original backers, phenomenal as it has been in certain direc-tions. In a few more months the term of probation will end. If by that time the status of the Society as regards ourselves --the question of the "Brothers" be not definitely settled (either dropped out of the Society's programme or accepted on our own terms) that will be the last of the "Brothers" of all shapes and colors, sizes or degrees. We will subside out of public view like a vapour into the ocean. Only those who have proved faith-ful to themselves and to Truth through everything, will be al-lowed further intercourse with us..." M L 263-4 "You can never know her [HPB] as we do, therefore--none of you will ever be able to judge her impartially or correctly. You see the surface of things; and what you would term "virtue," holding but to appearances, we--judge but after having fathomed the object to its profoundest depth, and generally leave the ap-pearances to take care of themselves. In your opinion H.P.B. is...a quaint, strange woman, a psychological riddle...We on the other hand, under the garb of eccentricity and folly--we find a profounder wisdom in her inner Self than you will ever find your-selves able to perceive...we...light daily upon traits of her inner nature the most delicate and refined, and which would cost an uninitiated psychologist years of constant and keen observa-tion, and many an hour of close analysis and efforts to draw out of the depth of that most subtle of mysteries--human mind--and one of the most complicated machines,---H.P.B.'s mind--and thus learn to know her true inner Self." M L 314 "The Lhas or adept alone possesses the real, his mind being en rapport with the Universal Mind. The Lhas has made a perfect junction of his soul with the Universal Mind in its fullness, which makes him for the time a divine being existing in the re-gion of absolute intelligence, knowledge of natural laws or Dgyu..." HPB to APS 376 H.P.B. ON HERSELF "I never gave myself out for a full-blown occultist, but only for a student of Occultism for the last thirty or forty years. Yet I am enough of an occultist to know that before we find the Master within our own hearts and seventh principle--we need an outside Master...I got my drop from my Master (the living one)...He is a Saviour, he who leads you to finding the Master within yourself. It is ten years already that I preach the inner Master and God and never represented our Masters as Saviours in the Christian sense." [ HPB to Dr. Hartmann ] PATH, Vol. X, p. 367 "...as I venerate the Master, and worship MY MASTER--the sole creator of my inner Self which but for His calling it out, awakening it from its slumber, would never have come to conscious being--not in this life, at all events..." Letters of HPB to APS, p. 104 ON THE SECRET DOCTRINE "The Secret Doctrine was the universally diffused religion of the ancient and prehistoric world." [ SD I xxxiv ] "These truths are in no sense put forward as a revelation, nor does the author claim the position of a revealer of mystic lore now made public for the first time in the world's history." [ SD I vii ] "We give facts and show land-marks: let the wayfarer follow them. What is given here is amply sufficient for this century." [ SD II 742 ] "There are more secrets of Initiation given out in the Introductory Chapter than in all Isis...Fancy Masters giving out the secret of the "Divine Hermaphrodite" even ! and so on." [ HPB Letters to A.P.Sinnett, p. 172-3 ] HOW OTHERS LOOK ON H.P.B.? "H.P.B. was the Messenger from the Great Lodge to the west-ern world. W.Q.J. was a co-founder and co-worker with H.P.B. from the beginning. It will be well to remember that HPB and WQJ were not accorded the positions They held through any authority, but through recognition of Their knowledge and power. They were sui generis; all others are but students. Those who belittle Judge will also be found belittling HPB." F P 5 "HPB was the Direct Agent of the Lodge--and this is explic-itly stated to be the fact by the Master K.H. ...then we must go to the records left by Her and Her Colleague, W.Q.J., for direc-tion in all matters pertaining to the Theosophical Movement." F P 34 "In the introduction to the SECRET DOCTRINE, H.P.Blavatsky boldly affirms the existence of a great Fraternity of Men, Adepts, who preserve the true philosophy through all changes, now revealing it, and again, at certain eras, withdrawing it from a degraded age; and emphatically she says that the doctrine is never a new one, but only a handing on again of what was always the system... [Further she adds] in the twentieth century of our era scholars will begin to recognize that the S.D. has neither been invented nor exaggerated, but, on the contrary, simply out-lined; and finally, that its teachings antedate the Vedas." "...the Messenger from the great Fraternity--she herself being the one for this Century--she observes significantly: that "In Century the 20th some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proof that there exists a science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, [it] the source of all religions and philosophies now known to the world...is at last found." WQJ ART II 81-2 ============================= -----Original Message----- From: Laura Gray [mailto:classiccontours@sympatico.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:38 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Gratitude "If we are developing the child-heart; If we are learning to love things beautiful; If we are becoming more honest and plain and simple; If we are beginning to sense the sweet side of life; f we are getting to like our friends better and extending the circle; If we feel ourselves expanding in sympathy This is traveling on The Path." Robert Crosbie Question How do we "teach others" as it states in the Declaration, when all learning is just remembering, and all true instruction is from within? Laura --- Distributed by Reed Carson P.O. Box 160 Windham NY 12496 USA You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-7560482L@lists.lyris.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Wed Mar 03 02:38:30 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77452 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 10:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 10:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 10:38:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.142] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2004 10:38:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3519 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.85 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 62.234.183.216 Subject: Dark energie changing the universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker Dark Energy Changes the Universe 02.27.04 Dark energy has the cosmoslogists scratching their heads. Observations taken by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and future space telescopes will be needed in order to determine the properties of dark energy, which makes up about 70 percent of the universe.Probing dark energy, the energy in empty space causing the expanding universe to accelerate, calls for accurately measuring how that expansion rate is increasing with time. Dark energy is thought to drive space apart.The diagram at right shows the changes in the rate of expansion since the universe's birth 15 billion years ago. The more shallow the curve, the faster the rate of expansion. The curve changes noticeably about 7.5 billion years ago, when objects in the universe began flying apart at a faster rate. Astronomers theorize that the faster expansion rate is due to a mysterious, dark force that is pulling galaxies apart. Image courtesy of NASA/STScI/Ann Feild. Click on image for larger view.Astronomers used NASA's Hubble Space Telescope to hunt for supernovae (an energetic explosive event that occurs at the end of a star's lifetime), using their brightness, astronomers could measure if the universe was expanding faster or slower in the distant past. In its search, Hubble discovered 42 new supernovae, including six that are among the most distant ever found. The farthest supernovae show that the universe was decelerating long ago, but then "changed gears" and began to accelerate. Albert Einstein coined the term "cosmological constant" to represent the possibility that even empty space has energy and couples to gravity. Like other astronomers of the time, he thought that the universe was static and so proposed there was a repulsive force from space that kept the universe in balance.Einstein discarded his own findings in 1929, when Edwin Hubble found through his research that the universe was expanding and not static. Today, new data from Hubble may well prove Einstein was on the right track. The pull of gravity and the push of dark energy have been trying to outmuscle each other since the beginning of time. About seven billion years ago, dark energy got the upper hand because the universe had grown so large and matter (the source of gravity) had expanded and scattered.At left is an illustration of the possible fates of the universe. Unstable dark energy could cause a "big rip" (the universe expands violently, then the stars, planets and atoms come unglued) or a "big crunch" (the universe implodes or compresses). Image courtesy of NASA/STScI/Ann Feild. Click on image for larger view.Cosmologists believe about 70 percent of the universe consists of dark energy, 25 percent is dark matter, and only four percent normal matter (the stuff that stars, planets and people are made of). Hubble observations suggest the dark energy may be Einstein's cosmological constant, an energy percolating out of the vacuum of the space between galaxies.The energy of the universe is dominated by empty space emitting a repulsive form of gravity that is pushing the universe apart. But what does all this mean to Earth? Even if Einstein's theory was correct, we won't have to be concerned about the "dark side" for about 30 billion years, according to Hubble researchers.For further information, visit: http://universe.gsfc.nasa.gov/progr am/darkenergy.htmlNASA's John F. Kennedy Space Center and the Space Telescope Science Institute From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Mar 03 04:29:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28518 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 12:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 12:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.247) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 12:29:11 -0000 Received: from pool0040.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.40] helo=DALLAS) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyVUe-0006uD-00; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:28:58 -0800 To: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:28:49 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c4011b$18d5b520$288cb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec792c0c99015b487bf66b8909a54c31ef25350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.121.247 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: [bn-study] A question for bible experts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Wednesday, March 03, 2004 Dear Friend: This information is from Theosophical literature and may not be " from a standard Biblical point of view." As there are various standards and modern scholars are constantly reviewing them, let these figures stand on the merit of The SECRET DOCTRINE and its records le[pt by the Adepts ( S D I 272-3) It might be of some help: ------------------------------------------ 1 JUDAISM, JESUS, CHRISTIANITY : CHRONOLOGY ________________________ FROM THEOSOPHICAL AND OTHER SOURCES ( A partial List ) [ All references, unless otherwise indicated, are in THEOSOPHY Magazine. Volumes 1 to 83 (T), and the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT Volumes 1 to 63 (TM). ] Other references are taken from Key, HPB Articles [ HPB ], WQJ Articles [ WQJ ], S D, ISIS, Collected Works of HPB, [ CWB ], Theosophical Glossary [ Glos.],=20 Theosophist [ Thst. ], A Modern Panarion [ Mod. P], PATH, LUCIFER,=20 Transactions [ Trans.], etc.] Extracted from the chronological list of Articles in THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT DOWN THE AGES =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DATES KEY WORD EVENT REFERENCES =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D JEWS=20=20 3,000 BC c. JUDAISM (Tchandala Emigrants from India - Yadus) United in Upper India c. 3,000 BC Is II 433 Buddhists in Judaea .[ Glos. 115 ] Iao, Yaho, Iaho, . [ Glos. 148, 374 ] Ineffable Name . .[ Glos. 155 ]=20 Elohim - Adonai .. Is II 139; [ Glos. 113 ] Dayanisi (Dionysos) . . [ Glos. 97, 102 ] Seraphim - Celestials, Wise [ Glos. 296, 325 ] Israel - Asar - the Sun-God [ Glos. 158 ] Baal, Hercules, Adonis, Bel, Bacchus, Siva, Moloch, Adonai, Jehovah, Chiun, Saturn, Seth Is II 45 131 236 439 487 491 524-6 567 Sabaoth . . Is II 207 417-22 Tubal-Cain - Teacher in Using Metals [ Glos. 345 ] Java Alhim . . [ Glos. 162 ] Abraham - The Patriarch . TM 257 42 [ A-Brahm - a non-Brahmin ] Hyksos Is I 27 444 567-70 [Pali=3Dshepherd] Is II 438 481 487-8 523,573 Moses - The Initiate . TM 300 42 SD II 539; Mod. Pan. 45; HPB Art 3-244;=20 Is I 3, 555; II 129; SD I 320fn 385=20 SD II 428 456 465 691;=20 974-937 BC c. Solomon - The Great . TM 332 42 Is I 135 II 391; ML 345; SD II 591=20=20 Is I 19 97 135-6 147 256 410 503 546 566 Is I 580 II 255 265 297 389 391-2 439 444 Is II 525 592; M. PAN. 45-6; 970-936 BC c. Hiram (Tyre) . Is I 19, 135, 566-8 Jachin - a Pillar of Solomon's Temple [ Glos. 161 ] Solomon's Seal - Interlaced Triangles [ Glos. 303 ] Eden - Garden . . [ Glos. 109 ] Ark of the Covenant . . [ Glos. 30 ] Jewish Scriptures Biblical Traditions. T series v.50,51,52 The Oriental Kabala .. T 371 56 The Borrowers - Origins of Jewish Philos.=20 THEOSOPHICAL MVT 139 42 The Book of Enoch . T 244 53 Genesis - . . . [ Glos. 127 ] Pentateuch - Ezra's compil. Is I 568 578 T 10 25 Is II 128 167 287 424 492 526; SD I 10; [ Gl. 117 ]=20 SD II 143 544 658; HPB Art 1-432, 2-207, 238 3=20 Thorah - Law . . [ Glos. 331 ] Septuagint . Mod. Pan. 45; SD II 200fn; Talmud . . .. [Glos. 310 ] T 462 24 Talmidai Hakhameem - mystics, kabalists [ Glos. 318 ] Mishnah - Older Portions of the Talmud [ Glos. 215 ] Targum - Interpretation .. [ Glos. 321 ] Temura . . .. [ Glos. 325 ] Masorah - Masoretic Points [ Glos. 208 ] Pashut - Interpretative Method - [ Glos. 250 ] Mercavah . . [ Glos. 213 ] Tanaim - Initiates . [ Glos. 319 ] Kabala . . T v.71-272; T 440 25 Kabala and the Kabalists . T 440 24 -19th Cent. Kabala & the Kabalists at the Close of the 19th Century T 30 5 Zohar - Esoteric Wisdom .[ Glos. 187, 268, 388 ] Sepher Jetzirah ( Book of Creation } [ Glos. 165 ] Hay-yah (Buddhi) . [ Glos. 137 ] Kadosh - Consecrated, Holy Glos. 169 ] Jewish Mysticism THEOS MVMT 414 56 Hivim, Chivim, Levites, Initiates .[ Glos. 143 ] Jehovah SD I 73, 390, II 96, 388, 460-8; Glos. 163;=20 Yodh-Heva SD I 60 347 II 39 134=20 JEWISH SECTS Nazar [John the Baptist]. . [ Glos. 225-6 ] The Nazarene Syst.[Glos. 226] T v.28-322; T 462 49 Codex Nazaraeus [The Book of Adam] [ Glos. 86 ] Ebionites (The Poor, Jesus' Family) [ Glos. 108 ] Essenes . . . [ Glos. 115 ] Asmoneans - Priest-Kings [ Glos. 35 ] Pharisees - Is I xxx 347 553 II 132 135=20 Is II148 152 179 198 202 339 441 502 538 Sadducees - learned Philosophers [ Glos. 283 ] Followers of Zadok... . . [ Glos. 384 ] Is I xxx II 135 148 152 166 179 194 297 339 Sinai - Nissi - Dio-Nissi (os) - Sun [ Glos. 299 ] Thummim . . [ Glos. 334, 355 ] Jerusalem . . .. [ Glos. 163 ] Sabeans . . . Is II 45 30 BC - 10 AD Hillel [ Precursor of Jesus ] [ Glos. 141 ] KABALA [ Glos 167-8 ] - KABALISTS [ Tanaim, Chaldeans, Magi, St.John Christians, Paracelsus, Henry Khunrath, Jacob Boehme, Robert Fludd, Van Helmont, John Trithemius, Cornelius Agrippa, Cardinal N. Cusani,=20 Jerome Carden, Pope Sixtus IV, R. Lully, G. Pico d. Mirandola, G. Postel, J. Reuchlin, Dr. Henry More, Thos. Vaughan, Athanasius Kircher, C. Knorr von Rosenroth, Sir. Isaac Newton,=20 Leibnitz, Lord Bacon, Spinoza, Isaac Meyer,=20 Dante, Dr. S. Pancaost, G. Felt,=20 Dr. W. Wynn Westcott, S. L. MacGregor Mathers, ] The Oriental Kabala .. . T 371 56 Kabbalah of the Nine Chambers [ Glos. 230 ] Qabbalah . . [ Glos. 268, 167 ] Author: Ibn Gebirol SD I 376 [Glos. 45, 150 ] Kabala [Glos. 167,272-3; T v.71-272; T 440 25 Kabalist . . .[ Glos. 167 ] Kabala and the Kabalists . HPB Art 235 3 Kabalistic View of "Spirits" HPB Mod. Panar. 152 HPB on the Kaballah . . TM 183 13 Sephirothal Worlds . . T 148 51 Sephiroth Is II 40; SD 1 129, II 2fn [ Glos. 295 ] Kzilem - Waters of Life - Sephiroth [ Glos. 169 ] 50 Gates of Wisdom [ 49 + 1 ] . [ Glos. 120 ] 32 Ways to Wisdom- Zohar . . [ Glos. 330 ] Zohar - Esoteric Wisdom [ Glos. 187, 268, 388 ] Sepher Jetzirah ( Book of Creation } [ Glos. 165 ] Shekinah - Light of - veils Ain Soph [ Glos. 297 ] Aged of the Aged . . [ Glos. 204 ] Head of All Heads . . [ Glos. 137 ] Heavenly Adam . [ Glos. 138 ] Faces . . [ Glos. 294, 195 ] [ Glos. 118 ] Lower Face [ Microprosopus ] . [ Glos. 192, 294 ] Macroprosopus - Great Face - . [ Glos. 195 ] Inferior & Superior Worlds . [ Glos. 372 ] White Fire . . . [ Glos. 369 ] Demons . . . [ Glos. 98 ] =09 RABBI KABALISTS 70-80 AD Rabbi Simon ben Jochai - Kabala [ Glos. 172 ] 1240- Rabbi Abulafia, Sargosa . . [ Glos. 271 ] 8th Cent. Rabbi Akiba - Alphabet of R. A. [ Glos. 271 ] 1050- Rabbi Ibn Gebirol - Kether Malchuth [ Glos. 171 ] 1160- Rabbi Azariel ben Menachem . . [ Glos. 271 ] 1200- Rabbi Isaac the Blind . . . [ Glos. 172 ] -1304 Rabbi Moses Maimonides . [ Glos. 172 ] 1290- Rabbi Moses de Leon - Zohar . . [ Glos. 172 ] 1300- Rabbi Gikatilla - gematria . . [ Glos. 172 ] 1480- Rabbi Moses Botarel . . . . [ Glos. 271 ] 1550- Rabbi Moses Cordovero . . [ Glos. 172 ] 1560- Rabbi Loria (Luria) . . . [ Glos. 172 ] 1600- Rabbi Chajim Vital - Tree of Life . [ Glos. 271 ] 1641- Rabbi Sabbatai Zevi . . . [ Glos. 172 ] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D JESUS =09 Mt. MORIAH site of King Solomon's first temple at Jerusalem 1st TEMPLE where to Abraham journeyed to offer Isaac=20=09 in sacrifice GLOS 217 200 BC ESSENES Pythagoreans=09 GLOS 115 ISIS I xxx 16 26; II 37 ISIS II 130 139 145 307 336; SD II 592 LUCIF 19-377; THY 28-7; TM 26-176-7; 200 BC EPHESUS COLLEGE OF ESSENES - focus of the=20 Secret Science all the lore of the Tanaim,=20 brought from Chaldea=09 GLOS 27 114; IS I xxx, II 155 THY 28-7; LUCIF 5-324;=20 107 BC PANTHER Birth of Jesus (Jehoshua)=09 ISIS II 201, GLOS 248, or PENDERA (Lydda under reign of Alexander Janneus) Jesus was the son of Joseph Panther (tradition=20=09 makes him a Roman soldier) and Mary, hence Joshua Ben Panther GLOS 248; HPB ART I 117, III 180-1 GLOS 109 156-7 194; SD II 504fn=20=20=20 100 BC INNOCENTS "The 'Innocents' of Bethlehem and=20 of Lud (or Lydda) who were put to death by=20 Alexander Jannaeus, to the number of several thousands ...=20 gave rise to the legend of the 40,000 innocents babes murdered=20 by Herod while searching for the infant Jesus. The first is a little known historical fact, the second a fable, as (shown by Renan in=20 his La Vie de Jesus."=20 GLOS 156-7; SD II 504fn GLOS 109, HPB ART III 180; 100 BC EBIONITES "The poor" - many were relations=20 of Jesus Iassou GLOS 108 83-4 226 248; ISIS II 127 135 201-2 ISIS II 144 181 304-5; HPB ART III 173 192 HPB ART I 117; ML 415; LUCIF 19-381 BC "SEPHER TOLDOS JESHU"=09 Hebrew text pub. 1681 AD by C. Wagensillius=20 -- in Frankfort & Nuremberg "Mary having become the mother of a Son, named Jehoshua, and the boy growing up, she entrusted him=20 to the care of Rabbi Elhanan, and the child progressed=20 in knowledge, for he was well gifted with spirit and=20 understanding. Rabbi Jehoshua, son of Perachiah, continued the=20 education of Jehoshua (Jesus) after Elhanan, and initiated=20 him in the secret knowledge." but the King, Janneus, having=20 given orders to slay all the initiates (innocents), Jehosuah=20 Ben Perachiah, fled to Alexandria, in Egypt, taking the boy=20 with him. ... Jesus supplemented his initiation in the Jewish=20 Kaballah with an additional acquisition of the secret wisdom=20 of Egypt. When the persecution ceased, they both returned to=20 Judea." ISIS II 201 ISIS II 127fn 135fn 201 304-5 544 BC "CODEX NAZAREUS" Dt.: 1042 AD 76 BC Jesus over 40 years old when first visited Jerusalem ISIS II 135 fn 50 BC Jesus between 50 and 60 years old when baptized ISIS II 135fn 63 BC SECOND TEMPLE taken by Pompey GLOS 165 JESUS and CHRISTIANITY=20=20 [ Glos. 108, 248 ] 1 Cent BC Jesus Is II 94 150 135fn 329 337 455 530;=20 T 295, 346 24 Jesus a Buddhist Teacher .T 22 28 Jesus, Philosopher & Reformer T 50 30 The Tradition of Issa or Iesus T 11, 47, 7 [ Glos. Chrestos. 83 ] Chrestos - Oracle . .[ Glos. 83-4 ] Logia - Secret Teachings [ Matthew ]. [ Glos. 190 ] Panther - Father of Jesus. .[ Glos. 248 ] Jeshu Ben Pandira . .[ Glos. 191 ] Lyd, Lud - Birthplace of Jesus [ Glos. 109, 156 ] 30 BC - 45 AD Philo Judaeus - historian - no record of Jesus' work .[ Glos. 252-3 ] Is II 33 39 84 144 513fn=09 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D A D =20 70 AD THIRD TEMPLE=09 built by Herod the Great was razed to=20=09 the ground by the Romans ... no new temple was=20=09 allowed to be built..." GLOS 165 =20 70-80 AD Rabbi Simon ben Jochai - Kabala [ Glos. 172 ] Ebionites . .. [ Glos. 108 ] [ genuine primitive Christians Glos. 226 ] The Nazarene System .T v.28-322; T 462 49 -------------------------------------------------- =09=09=09 1st-3rd Cent. GNOSTICS & EARLY CHRISTIANITY=20=20 [ Glos. 129 ] [ Valentinus, Basilides, Marcion, Simon Magus...] Is I 2 299-300 583; II 38 41-2 51-2=20 Is II 175-7 183-9 205-7 232-4 237-8=20 Is II 253-4 293-6 309-10 325-7 488-489=20 Preceded Christianity in Egypt [ Glos. 241 ] Pre-Christian Systems: The Gnosis .. T 232 56 1st Cent AD First Century Christianity .. T 433 24 2nd Cent AD The GNOSTICS .T v.55-204, 237; T 529 24 Gnosis and Christianity T v.56 series; T 15 15=09 Christos and Sophia Achamoth. T 301 56 Iu-Kabar Zivo . .[ Glos. 159 ] GNOSTIC SECTS c. 120-145 Basilides Is II 123 125 155 188-9 236 536=20 153 - Bardesanes Is I 581 II 221 224 252. [ Glos. 50-51 ] [ see Nazarenes ] Collyridians .Is II 110 444 [ Glos. 88 ] Ebionites (The Poor - Earliest ) [ Glos. 108 ] Is II 127 135 144 180-182fn 190 307fn 492=20 3rd. Cent Manicheans & Mani Is I 286 325 329 352 [ Glos. 204 ] 84-104 AD Marcionites .. Is II 221 [ Glos. 207 ]=20 Mendeans (St. John Chr.) Is II 289 446 [ Glos. 212 ] Nabatheans (Sabeans, Nazarenes) .[ Glos. 221 ] In Lebanon Is II 128 135 197 Ophites - Earliest Sect Gnostics-"Bro. of the Serpent" SD I 403 459 472 [ Glos. 241, 84 ] Is II 129 168-176 184-8 228 292-6 399=20 Is II 449 501 505 508-9 512-13 Sabians Is II 197 203 307fn 650-1 .[ Glos. 282 ] Therapeutae (Pythag.) Key 3 72, Is I 19 [ Glos. 329 ] Theurgists & Their Science T 353 50=09 Is xlii 128-9 205 219 II 3 34 51 58 90 113 118 Theurgy -ist - founded by Iamblichus [ Glos. 329 ] Is I xlii 23 101 128-9 130 205 219 333 281-2=20=20 Is I 284 306 321 334-5 340 343 370 485-6 489 Is I 477 502 512 527 564-5 570 II 34 253 563-5 135-160 AD Valentinus Is II 123 210 236 248 333 Lucif v.6-237 Pistis Sophia . [ Glos. 254 ] " [ G.R.S.Mead HPB notes ] series Lucif v. 6 325 AD COUNCIL 1st of NICEA [ Nicean Credo adopted ] ISIS II 251-2 New Testament set=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ISIS II 337 506 AD Council of AGADA=20=20=20 against Sortes Sanctorum (divination) Isis II 21 354-430 Augustine, St. [Church Dogmas set] Is I xii xxxv 9 158 227 230 269 293 337 Is I 443 513 II 13 20-1 32-8 67-73 81 Is II 88-9 94 98 148 178 252 329 331 Is II 336 477-8 514 524 546 633 Abracadabra and Abrasax . [ Glos. 4 ] ---------------------------------------------------------- 2 Some additional references are: MOSES S D I 316, ; II 212, 428, 691,=20 Modern Jews date from David S D II 473, 10 Tribes disappeared during the Babylonian Captivity=20=20 S D I 651; II 130, 200fn, 473, 618. 2 Tribes are left: Judah and Levi S D II 130 ----------------------------------------------- Hope that this proves of help. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Gopi Chari [ Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:25 PM To:=20 Subject: [bn-study] A question for bible experts Can someone tell me when the ten tribes of Jews got lost. Some dates I have from a Bible are:=20 Birth of Abram - - - - 2166 B.C Abraham's Death ---- 1991 B.C Birth of Moses ------ 1526 B.C Exodus -------------- 1446 B.C The tribes must have been lost after Moses. So I am placing this around 1400 B.C. Does anyone agree or disagree with my dates.=20 I am asking from a standard Biblical point of view. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Wed Mar 03 06:30:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45816 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 14:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 14:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 14:29:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2004 14:28:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:28:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00d301c3fef9$4b766cf0$c4de603e@captaine99e0vu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1553 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.74 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 69.9.20.19 Subject: Frank Reitemeyer's Latest Comments concerning Dr. Algeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Frank, you wrote: ". . . I was told that the whole quarrel with publishing the HPB letters was up to John Algeo and that he is responsible for the troubles. I was told from one of the members of the Cooper working group which prepared the publication, that it was John Algeo personally who closed the working group and prevented the publication of the first two vol. which were ready for publication. I was told from one of this members that John Algeo always said that some remarks of HPB in this letters are too hard for publication, f.e. her harsh criticism of priesthoods. . . ." Who were the "members of the Cooper working group"? It seems that your "source" wants to put all the blame on Dr. Algeo. Remember there may be two or more sides to the story. You comment: "I was told from one of this members that John Algeo always said that some remarks of HPB in this letters are too hard for publication, f.e. her harsh criticism of priesthoods. . . ." Who is this person who told you? Let your anonymous source show us in black and white where some of HPB's comments in her letters have been deleted or significantly altered in the published volume edited by Dr. Algeo. The fact is that in the published Volume I of HPB's Collected Letters none of HPB's comments have been deleted. From day one in Dr. Algeo's correspondence with me, he was always insistent that nothing be deleted from HPB's letters and that HPB's language SHOULD NOT be edited. Please contact Dara Eklund. She can confirm what I write. Daniel From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Wed Mar 03 06:54:00 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49590 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 14:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 14:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 14:53:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2004 14:53:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:53:15 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00d201c3fef9$49ef30b0$c4de603e@captaine99e0vu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1706 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Originating-IP: 69.9.20.19 Subject: To Frank: BdZ collection of HPB's Letters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell The Boris de Zirkoff collection of HPB's letters is housed at the Theosophical Society, Wheaton, Illinois, USA. When I was at Wheaton, I carefully went through the notebooks of HPB's letters that Boris had collected. These were typescripts of HPB's letters that Boris had transcribed. Yes, I have seen in many cases the originals of HPB's letters or microfilm/photo copies of her letters. Again I repeat: In the newly published volume I from Wheaton of HPB's Collected Letters, you will see every single letter from the BdZ collection for the years covered in that volume (1861-1879). In other words, Dr. Algeo has published in the Vol. I collection now available from TPH, Wheaton, Illinois, every HPB letter(1861-Jan. 14, 1879)in the BdeZ collection . I hope this helps. Daniel --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > >I am still puzzled as to what you are actually contending. > > Daniel, I am sorry for my bad English. > > >Frank, do you know where the BdZ collection of HPB's > >letters is housed? > > The originals? I don't know. > Maybe they are at Wheaton, where BdeZ housed his complete research material. > > >Several years ago, I carefully studied this > >collection of letters on a trip to the TS, Wheaton, > >Illinois. > > Have you seen the originals or microfilms? > > >In the newly published volume I from Wheaton of > >HPB's Collected Letters, you will see every single > >letter from the BdZ collection for the years covered > >in that volume. > > That is indeed good news. > In other words: > The now publsihed vol. I is 1:1 identical with the 1996 vol. I prepared by > Prof. John Cooper? > Thanks for clarification. > Frank From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 03 14:48:15 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83863 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2004 22:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2004 22:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO paul) (208.180.185.162) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2004 22:48:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:52:21 -0600 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 208.180.185.162 X-eGroups-From: administration@yahoogroups.com From: stevestubbs@yahoo.com Subject: Notify about using the e-mail account. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user of Yahoogroups.com, Our antivirus software has detected a large ammount of viruses outgoing from your email account, you may use our free anti-virus tool to clean up your computer software. For more information see the attached file. For security purposes the attached file is password protected. Password is "03023". Cheers, The Yahoogroups.com team http://www.yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eldon@theosophy.com Wed Mar 03 16:08:38 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73700 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2004 00:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2004 00:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 00:08:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2004 00:07:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:07:34 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1090 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "Eldon B Tucker" X-Originating-IP: 66.27.191.40 Subject: Re: Notify about using the e-mail account. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Viruses will often send themselves out from someone's computer with a forged FROM: line in the email header. Over the past few years, I've seen many, even some pretending to have come from theos-talk. When I look at the message header, I can see often see the IP address of the machine that send the forged message. Note also that theos-talk does not allow email attachments, so any email saying it is "FROM:" the list but having an email attachment should be immediately suspicious. -- Eldon --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, stevestubbs@y... wrote: > Dear user of Yahoogroups.com, > > Our antivirus software has detected a large ammount of viruses outgoing > from your email account, you may use our free anti-virus tool to clean up > your computer software. > > For more information see the attached file. > > For security purposes the attached file is password protected. Password is "03023". > > Cheers, > The Yahoogroups.com team http://www.yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 03 16:12:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47610 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2004 00:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2004 00:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 00:12:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2004 00:11:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:11:16 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 68 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.71 From: "stevestubbs" X-Originating-IP: 63.188.192.83 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs It looks like somebodywith nothing worthwhile to do is spoofing me. From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Mar 03 17:17:53 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98193 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2004 01:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2004 01:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.188) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2004 01:17:45 -0000 Received: from pool0332.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.19.77] helo=DALLAS) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AyhRI-00076e-00; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:14:17 -0800 To: "Mangala RAMPRAKASH" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:14:09 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c40186$024a84a0$8a86b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000301c3feff$5d8c3090$0edab3d1@DALLAS> Importance: Normal X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798c7cd5c0e8fb1b1060809700179b525f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.188 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Choices X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 March 3 2004 =20 Dear M. =20 Here is a quick review and a series of questions I ask myself. =20 Dal =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- =20 From: Mangala R Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:03 AM To:=20 Subject: RE: Choices =20 . Here is the entire article copied into the email:=20 ----------------------------------------------------- Dear Reader,=20 We now come to what may be called the CORE of spiritual lessons. This secti= on is a bit long, but if you take the trouble to study it carefully, digest= the content and learn to apply it in daily life, then you have got it made= ! We not only urge you to study this material carefully, but also suggest y= ou reflect on it in relation to what Baba says in His innumerable Discourse= s. If you do, you will find this is the essence of what may be called Pract= ical Spirituality.=20 Good luck and happy reading. Jai Sai Ram.=20 Sai Global Harmony TEAM MAMA Dharma OR Atma Dharma In the last unit that we offered, we ended with the theme of Mama Dharma. P= resently we expand on it.=20 Let us start with the term Dharma. We all have heard it any number of times= . But do we know the real meaning of the word Dharma? Scholars would say th= at this term is too rich in meaning to be given a simple translation. Indee= d, this is true. In fact, the word is used in different contexts with speci= al meaning. An example. In India, the term Dharma is sometimes used to desc= ribe charity. Swami has drawn attention to this on many occasions. We do no= t use the term here in such a narrow or limited sense. For us now, Dharma s= tands for DUTY. This of course raises another question: "What precisely is = meant by duty?" Indeed, that is what we shall be zeroing in on presently.=20 Before going further, let it be mentioned that Swami also reminds us that t= here is another term for Mama Dharma; that term is Atma Dharma. This is a v= ery important and crucial point, and we have to go into it in some detail. = Our starting point is hymn [sloka] (2,31) of the Bhagavad Gita, wherein Kri= shna introduces the term Swadharma. Swadharma =3D Swa + Dharma. Swa is inva= riably interpreted as the self. Hence, the word Swadharma is interpreted as= "the Dharma of the self". This is OK, except for one very important point.= The word Swa refers not to the lower self [as most scholars assert] but to= the HIGHER SELF or the Atma, as Baba has pointed out. Thus, Swadharma real= ly means Atma Dharma or, duty performed in consonance with the nature of th= e Atma. This interpretation of Bhagavan Baba is both unique as well as prof= ound. Swadharma DOES NOT mean Dharma of the individual self, as scholars no= rmally imply. It means Mama Dharmwa, and it also means Atma Dharma. There a= lso exists what may be called the Dharma of the individual self; it is call= ed Para Dharma [to which a reference has already been made].=20 Seekers are likely to be dazed and confused. They may say: "What is this? F= irst we are told that there are many meanings for the word Dharma. Restrict= ing to duty, we are now informed that there is Atma Dharma on the one hand = and Para Dharma on the other. Which of these are we supposed to follow?" Th= is is a legitimate worry. However, most mercifully, Baba has clarified ever= ything in extra-ordinary detail and clarity. So, there is nothing to worry = about really. We just have to carefully follow what He says about the matte= r.=20 First, Atma Dharma is supreme while Para Dharma is subsidiary; that establi= shes the hierarchy. Next, in 90% of the cases, we can just routinely follow= Para Dharma; no problem. This is because, in all simple situations, Para D= harma is in fact consistent with Atma Dharma. Therefore, in all such cases,= following Para Dharma is the same as following Atma Dharma.=20 A person may now raise a doubt like this: "Listen! I don=E2=80=99t know a t= hing about either of these two Dharmas you are talking about. How then am I= supposed to follow these?" No problem; Swami has explained everything! Let= us start with Para Dharma. It means the duty of the individual self; it me= ans the things an individual is supposed to do; it also implies what the in= dividual shall not do. There is nothing complicated about this. All societi= es and religions have laid down norms. For example, we have the famous Ten = Commandments of Moses. Now Para Dharma does not merely represent a set of g= eneral instructions like, "Love thy neighbour." It implies specific rules t= hat apply to one=E2=80=99s position in life. For example, the Para Dharma o= f a teacher is not quite the same as that of a doctor. This is not as confu= sing as it might seem A teacher is supposed to teach and doctor is supposed= to heal. Likewise, a king must behave like a king and not like a vagabond.= =20 Swami puts it very neatly: "Para Dharma simply means the Dharma of the body= . It means being natural corresponding to the state you are in. It automati= cally varies from person to person, and in fact, even for the same person i= t varies from time to time and depends on the place!" He explains this as f= ollows. Let us take a baby boy. When the baby is less than three years old,= it is quite natural for the baby to play all the time, and even run around= without dress occasionally. Nobody thinks that there is anything wrong abo= ut this. The baby does what is natural to that particular state. One may sa= y that the b