From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 01 04:19:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18925 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 12:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 12:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 12:19:56 -0000 Received: from pool0217.cvx17-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.232.217] helo=DALLAS) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ac1el-0006UJ-00; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 04:10:27 -0800 To: "AA-Dal" Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 04:04:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c3d05f$ce4a6b40$d9e8b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.123 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: NEW YEAR'S GREETINGS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2004 Some Thoughts The ACTIVE CYCLE OF WORK -- Does it ever close ? In regard to the "closing" of a "gate in 1897/98 there was much speculation at one time. Now we are asked about the succeeding 100 year cycle which presumably ended in 1997/98. As this is reviewed we find: One of the best way to answer such questions is, perhaps, to look for the original references and then decide what, philosophically, we can get out of them in the way of useful and present-time application. Otherwise they remain as an inexplicable memory and a vague unease in our minds. The sun never sets, a period of rest never begins without the hope, or the certainty, that the economy of Great Nature will always bring on a renewal, a reawakening. Why should this hope or certainty exist ? Consider that Nature (the Universe, our World and Solar system) contains all, and has provided us with life up to this moment - a life in which we rejoice (or suffer) depending on our nature and character. Also, we are endowed with curiosity, and with a desire to find out how and why things are as they are. What are our powers ? What is our particular equipment ? How can we use it ? These are all common questions we ask ourselves, and one-another. In the matter of cycles we find that in a year we go through several, and some have more vitality than others on the surface. But even winter may see the secret growth and nurturing of those seeds that will form the harvest of next Autumn. So there is overt as well as secret work progressing all the time. We have to investigate and discover its methods. These changes are universal, and when day changes to night and activity to rest, or Summer becomes Winter we seek to discover the reasons for change. It is so also in the occult cycles of activity and rest. But whether one or the other is presently active, work proceeds. And when this happens the work will still go one. Even during that which is night to some, there is activity elsewhere. It is a ceaseless urge to grow, to experience, to learn. The move to progress which is innate in each one of us, as in all the rest of nature-even to the tiniest atom continues. It is the beating of the great secret Heart, symbolized in antiquity by the Central Spiritual SUN - it is an intimation of this Sun of Life, reflected in our hearts that we note as the innate, persistent sense of individual immortality - one that leaves its insistent mark everywhere. In her article THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS ["Lucifer," Nov., Dec. 1887, Feb. 1888 ] HPB gives (in a footnote) [ ULT 3 Vol. Edn. Of HPB's Articles, Vol. 3, p. 169 fn ] at the outset an important date relating to occult cycles and the ending of the "Age of Pisces - and the starting of that of Aquarius - a cycle of 2,155 years - not long, but very occult as the influence of sun and zodiac changes in a subtle but definite way (details not all given). HPB predicts that psychologists will thereafter have extra work to do as the psychic idiosyncrasies of humanity will enter on a great change. [ And that means this present cycle and age. She also refers to this in her FOURTH MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN SECTION IN CONVENTION IN 1891: "The period which we have now reached in the cycle that will close between 1897/98 is, and will continue to be one of great conflict and continued strain. If the T.S. can hold through it, good; if not, while Theosophy will remain unscathed, the Society will perish-perchance most ingloriously-and the World will suffer...the critical nature of the stage on which we have entered is as well known to the forces that fight against us as to those that fight on our side. No opportunity will be lost of sowing dissension, of taking advantage of mistaken and false moves, of instilling doubt, of augmenting difficulties, of breathing suspicion, so that by any and every means the unity of the Society may be broken and the ranks of our Fellows thinned and thrown into disarray..." Reviewing the history of the last years we can decide whether this prophecy has been fulfilled or not. How many FTS have honored HPB by the close study and learning of that Theosophy which she and the Masters of Wisdom jointly presented ? Are the ranks of the Theosophical Societies and Associations one pointed, united, wise and active ? Or, is there much work left to be done ? Each one has to think of these things and answer to themselves. Exactly what is/was the work to be done for ones' self and for others ? Returning to the matter of intersecting cycles: -- Simultaneously there is the ending of the first 5,000 years of Kali Yuga cycle ( Total time: 432,000 years for that grand cycle ). 427,000 years are yet to come under that influence. In the SECRET DOCTRINE (Vol. I, p. 612) she indicates that the year 1897 will witness a large rent being made in the Veil of Nature whereby "materialistic science will receive a deathblow." This date has passed and we have witnessed in the last 100 years a series of great discoveries, in physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics psychology and biochemistry that have revolutionized our concept of the atom and the molecule and the interaction of forces and energies on the subtlest, as well as the grandest electro-magnetic scales and ranges of measurement. The rediscovery of the "astral body" and the "astral plane" whereby all material forms are made to cohere, and especially those biochemical mixtures in which intelligent consciousness and life of a higher character is seen (plants, animals, humans). Science has in fact already entered the realm of energy that leads to an understanding of the power of the astral and the Pranic energies that make forms possible and given them the life they enjoy as entities with a definite purpose in the great scheme of things. [ Mr. Judge in the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY speaks of this critical date and gives information on this theme on p. 125 of the book. ] The psychological origins and potential achievements of human consciousness - and its unknown ranges - have been sensed, vaguely sketched, and it remains for a serious and concentrated investigation to clear away the concept that all this vast interacting group of diverse molds or model-forms that underlie the many physical forms and keep them "living" is moved by one central cooperative INTELLIGENCE and many Independent But Voluntarily Cooperating Intelligences. Man's consciousness represents one of the most advanced powers focused in such a form at this time, and from this condition the doors open to an understanding of the Universe, its purpose (see SD I 268) and he can understand what his own duty and responsibility is as he passes through the successive degrees of initiation that are possible to him - by his own determination and will. Writing on this concept Mr. Judge in THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (p. 4) says: this "is an age of transition," when every system of thought, science, religion, government, and society is changing, preparing for an alteration into that state which will permit the race to advance to the point suitable for these elder brothers to introduce their actual presence to our sight." Another article speaks of the "precursors of HPB," of the vow taken by Tsong-Kha-Pa in Tibet to send a mission to the West each hundred years. And we can trace from that date in the 14th Century, the imprint of the work of various "Messengers" whose task it was to revive in the West the memory of the esoteric Wisdom. In the 15th Cent. We had the revival in Florence of the study of Plato spearheaded by Paschalis, Pico della Mirandola and Marsilio Ficino. The next century (16th) saw the work of Giordano Bruno, Paracelsus, Van Helmont, Reuchlin and Trithemius. And then came that of Boehme (17th Cent.), Eugenius Philalethes, and with them the Rosicrucians, Hermetic Philosophers and Fire Philosophers. In the 18th Cent. we have St. Germain, St. Martin, Cagliostro and Mesmer. Also the Cambridge Platonists worked then and so did Thomas Taylor who translated the Greek philosophers into English. In closing, here is a passage from the SECRET DOCTRINE where HPB speaks of the future: "...it is the esoteric teachings, and the initiates of the Future, whose mission it is, and will be, to redeem and ennoble once more the primitive conceptions so sadly profaned by its crude and gross application to exoteric dogmas and personations by theological and ecclesiastical religionists. The silent worship of abstract or 'noumenal' Nature, the only divine manifestation, is the one ennobling religion of Humanity." [ SD I 381 fn ) Who are these "initiates of the Future ?" Perhaps, the inspiring Pledge of Kwan-Yin offers a hint: they are ourselves. It reads: Never will I seek nor receive private individual salvations. Never will I enter into final peace alone. But forever and everywhere will I live and strive For the redemption of every creature throughout the world. Best wishes, Dallas ============================= HPB speaks to the importance of cycles and dates in her articles: STARS AND NUMBERS Theosophist June 1881 [ ULT Edn., HPB's Articles Vol. III, p. 401 ] OUR CYCLE AND THE NEXT Lucifer Vol. 4, p. 177 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 367 ] THE CYCLE MOVETH Lucifer March 1890 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 355 ] THE NEW CYCLE 1889 La Revue Theosophique March 1889 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 397 ] WILL MASTERS' HELP BE WITHDRAWN IN 1898 UNTIL 1975 ? - Judge, PATH, Nov. 1894, [ W Q Judge's Articles, ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 76 ] ARE WE DESERTED ? -- Judge PATH, December 1892, [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 78 ] PROPHECIES BY H P BLAVATSKY -- Judge [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 81 ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 01 04:45:44 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32769 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 12:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 12:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 12:45:43 -0000 Received: from pool0217.cvx17-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.232.217] helo=DALLAS) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Ac1cy-0006UJ-00; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 04:08:37 -0800 To: "AA-Dal" Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 04:04:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000401c3d05f$a0fdbd40$d9e8b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.123 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: THOUGHTS FOR 2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2004 Some Thoughts The ACTIVE CYCLE OF WORK -- Does it ever close ? In regard to the "closing" of a "gate in 1897/98 there was much speculation at one time. Now we are asked about the succeeding 100 year cycle which presumably ended in 1997/98. As this is reviewed we find: One of the best way to answer such questions is, perhaps, to look for the original references and then decide what, philosophically, we can get out of them in the way of useful and present-time application. Otherwise they remain as an inexplicable memory and a vague unease in our minds. The sun never sets, a period of rest never begins without the hope, or the certainty, that the economy of Great Nature will always bring on a renewal, a reawakening. Why should this hope or certainty exist ? Consider that Nature (the Universe, our World and Solar system) contains all, and has provided us with life up to this moment - a life in which we rejoice (or suffer) depending on our nature and character. Also, we are endowed with curiosity, and with a desire to find out how and why things are as they are. What are our powers ? What is our particular equipment ? How can we use it ? These are all common questions we ask ourselves, and one-another. In the matter of cycles we find that in a year we go through several, and some have more vitality than others on the surface. But even winter may see the secret growth and nurturing of those seeds that will form the harvest of next Autumn. So there is overt as well as secret work progressing all the time. We have to investigate and discover its methods. These changes are universal, and when day changes to night and activity to rest, or Summer becomes Winter we seek to discover the reasons for change. It is so also in the occult cycles of activity and rest. But whether one or the other is presently active, work proceeds. And when this happens the work will still go one. Even during that which is night to some, there is activity elsewhere. It is a ceaseless urge to grow, to experience, to learn. The move to progress which is innate in each one of us, as in all the rest of nature-even to the tiniest atom continues. It is the beating of the great secret Heart, symbolized in antiquity by the Central Spiritual SUN - it is an intimation of this Sun of Life, reflected in our hearts that we note as the innate, persistent sense of individual immortality - one that leaves its insistent mark everywhere. In her article THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS ["Lucifer," Nov., Dec. 1887, Feb. 1888 ] HPB gives (in a footnote) [ ULT 3 Vol. Edn. Of HPB's Articles, Vol. 3, p. 169 fn ] at the outset an important date relating to occult cycles and the ending of the "Age of Pisces - and the starting of that of Aquarius - a cycle of 2,155 years - not long, but very occult as the influence of sun and zodiac changes in a subtle but definite way (details not all given). HPB predicts that psychologists will thereafter have extra work to do as the psychic idiosyncrasies of humanity will enter on a great change. [ And that means this present cycle and age. She also refers to this in her FOURTH MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN SECTION IN CONVENTION IN 1891: "The period which we have now reached in the cycle that will close between 1897/98 is, and will continue to be one of great conflict and continued strain. If the T.S. can hold through it, good; if not, while Theosophy will remain unscathed, the Society will perish-perchance most ingloriously-and the World will suffer...the critical nature of the stage on which we have entered is as well known to the forces that fight against us as to those that fight on our side. No opportunity will be lost of sowing dissension, of taking advantage of mistaken and false moves, of instilling doubt, of augmenting difficulties, of breathing suspicion, so that by any and every means the unity of the Society may be broken and the ranks of our Fellows thinned and thrown into disarray..." Reviewing the history of the last years we can decide whether this prophecy has been fulfilled or not. How many FTS have honored HPB by the close study and learning of that Theosophy which she and the Masters of Wisdom jointly presented ? Are the ranks of the Theosophical Societies and Associations one pointed, united, wise and active ? Or, is there much work left to be done ? Each one has to think of these things and answer to themselves. Exactly what is/was the work to be done for ones' self and for others ? Returning to the matter of intersecting cycles: -- Simultaneously there is the ending of the first 5,000 years of Kali Yuga cycle ( Total time: 432,000 years for that grand cycle ). 427,000 years are yet to come under that influence. In the SECRET DOCTRINE (Vol. I, p. 612) she indicates that the year 1897 will witness a large rent being made in the Veil of Nature whereby "materialistic science will receive a deathblow." This date has passed and we have witnessed in the last 100 years a series of great discoveries, in physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics psychology and biochemistry that have revolutionized our concept of the atom and the molecule and the interaction of forces and energies on the subtlest, as well as the grandest electro-magnetic scales and ranges of measurement. The rediscovery of the "astral body" and the "astral plane" whereby all material forms are made to cohere, and especially those biochemical mixtures in which intelligent consciousness and life of a higher character is seen (plants, animals, humans). Science has in fact already entered the realm of energy that leads to an understanding of the power of the astral and the Pranic energies that make forms possible and given them the life they enjoy as entities with a definite purpose in the great scheme of things. [ Mr. Judge in the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY speaks of this critical date and gives information on this theme on p. 125 of the book. ] The psychological origins and potential achievements of human consciousness - and its unknown ranges - have been sensed, vaguely sketched, and it remains for a serious and concentrated investigation to clear away the concept that all this vast interacting group of diverse molds or model-forms that underlie the many physical forms and keep them "living" is moved by one central cooperative INTELLIGENCE and many Independent But Voluntarily Cooperating Intelligences. Man's consciousness represents one of the most advanced powers focused in such a form at this time, and from this condition the doors open to an understanding of the Universe, its purpose (see SD I 268) and he can understand what his own duty and responsibility is as he passes through the successive degrees of initiation that are possible to him - by his own determination and will. Writing on this concept Mr. Judge in THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (p. 4) says: this "is an age of transition," when every system of thought, science, religion, government, and society is changing, preparing for an alteration into that state which will permit the race to advance to the point suitable for these elder brothers to introduce their actual presence to our sight." Another article speaks of the "precursors of HPB," of the vow taken by Tsong-Kha-Pa in Tibet to send a mission to the West each hundred years. And we can trace from that date in the 14th Century, the imprint of the work of various "Messengers" whose task it was to revive in the West the memory of the esoteric Wisdom. In the 15th Cent. We had the revival in Florence of the study of Plato spearheaded by Paschalis, Pico della Mirandola and Marsilio Ficino. The next century (16th) saw the work of Giordano Bruno, Paracelsus, Van Helmont, Reuchlin and Trithemius. And then came that of Boehme (17th Cent.), Eugenius Philalethes, and with them the Rosicrucians, Hermetic Philosophers and Fire Philosophers. In the 18th Cent. we have St. Germain, St. Martin, Cagliostro and Mesmer. Also the Cambridge Platonists worked then and so did Thomas Taylor who translated the Greek philosophers into English. In closing, here is a passage from the SECRET DOCTRINE where HPB speaks of the future: "...it is the esoteric teachings, and the initiates of the Future, whose mission it is, and will be, to redeem and ennoble once more the primitive conceptions so sadly profaned by its crude and gross application to exoteric dogmas and personations by theological and ecclesiastical religionists. The silent worship of abstract or 'noumenal' Nature, the only divine manifestation, is the one ennobling religion of Humanity." [ SD I 381 fn ) Who are these "initiates of the Future ?" Perhaps, the inspiring Pledge of Kwan-Yin offers a hint: they are ourselves. It reads: Never will I seek nor receive private individual salvations. Never will I enter into final peace alone. But forever and everywhere will I live and strive For the redemption of every creature throughout the world. Best wishes, Dallas ============================= HPB speaks to the importance of cycles and dates in her articles: STARS AND NUMBERS Theosophist June 1881 [ ULT Edn., HPB's Articles Vol. III, p. 401 ] OUR CYCLE AND THE NEXT Lucifer Vol. 4, p. 177 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 367 ] THE CYCLE MOVETH Lucifer March 1890 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 355 ] THE NEW CYCLE 1889 La Revue Theosophique March 1889 [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 397 ] WILL MASTERS' HELP BE WITHDRAWN IN 1898 UNTIL 1975 ? - Judge, PATH, Nov. 1894, [ W Q Judge's Articles, ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 76 ] ARE WE DESERTED ? -- Judge PATH, December 1892, [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 78 ] PROPHECIES BY H P BLAVATSKY -- Judge [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 81 ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Thu Jan 01 06:59:09 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69164 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 14:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 14:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 14:59:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2004 14:59:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:59:06 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000401c3d05f$a0fdbd40$d9e8b3d1@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 11993 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 62.234.183.216 Subject: Re: THOUGHTS FOR 2004 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker Hallo Dallis, New Year, New Idee's; Now we started a fresh beginning: I have not read the whole story yet, because it is too long for me, behind the computer. Personnely I have more on the books, because that is easy to hang over and I write in them.So it is a living work for me. If I see what all of you have studied , like you and Larry and Dirk, than I have a long road to go.But Oke Larry is than about 80 years, then I have still many years for me.There books are wonderfull and very interesting. Now the beginning of this part. They closed the gate in 1879 , yes I know, I think, that is the animal gate. The Human gate will be closed after two periods ( Aquarian and Capricornus) then we need to be Angles on the planet New Jupiter and than the last two periods of ages( on New Venus and New Vulcanus) follows up to the end of this Manvantara. I think it is like that, Yours sincerely Christina. -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: > > > > > > > > > 2004 Some Thoughts > > > > > > > > > > The ACTIVE CYCLE OF WORK -- Does it ever close ? > > > > > > > > > > In regard to the "closing" of a "gate in 1897/98 there was much > speculation at one time. > > > > Now we are asked about the succeeding 100 year cycle which presumably > ended in 1997/98. As this is reviewed we find: > > > > One of the best way to answer such questions is, perhaps, to look for > the original references and then decide what, philosophically, we can > get out of them in the way of useful and present-time application. > Otherwise they remain as an inexplicable memory and a vague unease in > our minds. > > > > The sun never sets, a period of rest never begins without the hope, or > the certainty, that the economy of Great Nature will always bring on a > renewal, a reawakening. Why should this hope or certainty exist ? > > > > Consider that Nature (the Universe, our World and Solar system) contains > all, and has provided us with life up to this moment - a life in which > we rejoice (or suffer) depending on our nature and character. Also, we > are endowed with curiosity, and with a desire to find out how and why > things are as they are. What are our powers ? What is our particular > equipment ? How can we use it ? These are all common questions we ask > ourselves, and one-another. > > > > In the matter of cycles we find that in a year we go through several, > and some have more vitality than others on the surface. But even winter > may see the secret growth and nurturing of those seeds that will form > the harvest of next Autumn. So there is overt as well as secret work > progressing all the time. We have to investigate and discover its > methods. > > > > These changes are universal, and when day changes to night and activity > to rest, or Summer becomes Winter we seek to discover the reasons for > change. It is so also in the occult cycles of activity and rest. But > whether one or the other is presently active, work proceeds. And when > this happens the work will still go one. Even during that which is > night to some, there is activity elsewhere. It is a ceaseless urge to > grow, to experience, to learn. The move to progress which is innate in > each one of us, as in all the rest of nature-even to the tiniest atom > continues. It is the beating of the great secret Heart, symbolized in > antiquity by the Central Spiritual SUN - it is an intimation of this Sun > of Life, reflected in our hearts that we note as the innate, persistent > sense of individual immortality - one that leaves its insistent mark > everywhere. > > > > In her article THE ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS ["Lucifer," Nov., > Dec. 1887, Feb. 1888 ] HPB gives (in a footnote) [ ULT 3 Vol. Edn. Of > HPB's Articles, Vol. 3, p. 169 fn ] at the outset an important date > relating to occult cycles and the ending of the "Age of Pisces - and the > starting of that of Aquarius - a cycle of 2,155 years - not long, but > very occult as the influence of sun and zodiac changes in a subtle but > definite way (details not all given). > > > > HPB predicts that psychologists will thereafter have extra work to do as > the psychic idiosyncrasies of humanity will enter on a great change. [ > And that means this present cycle and age. She also refers to this in > her FOURTH MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN SECTION IN CONVENTION IN 1891: > > > > "The period which we have now reached in the cycle that will close > between 1897/98 is, and will continue to be one of great conflict and > continued strain. If the T.S. can hold through it, good; if not, while > Theosophy will remain unscathed, the Society will perish-perchance most > ingloriously-and the World will suffer...the critical nature of the > stage on which we have entered is as well known to the forces that fight > against us as to those that fight on our side. No opportunity will be > lost of sowing dissension, of taking advantage of mistaken and false > moves, of instilling doubt, of augmenting difficulties, of breathing > suspicion, so that by any and every means the unity of the Society may > be broken and the ranks of our Fellows thinned and thrown into > disarray..." > > > > Reviewing the history of the last years we can decide whether this > prophecy has been fulfilled or not. How many FTS have honored HPB by > the close study and learning of that Theosophy which she and the Masters > of Wisdom jointly presented ? Are the ranks of the Theosophical > Societies and Associations one pointed, united, wise and active ? Or, > is there much work left to be done ? Each one has to think of these > things and answer to themselves. Exactly what is/was the work to be > done for ones' self and for others ? > > > > Returning to the matter of intersecting cycles: -- > > > > Simultaneously there is the ending of the first 5,000 years of Kali Yuga > cycle ( Total time: 432,000 years for that grand cycle ). 427,000 years > are yet to come under that influence. > > > > In the SECRET DOCTRINE (Vol. I, p. 612) she indicates that the year 1897 > will witness a large rent being made in the Veil of Nature whereby > "materialistic science will receive a deathblow." This date has passed > and we have witnessed in the last 100 years a series of great > discoveries, in physics, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics psychology > and biochemistry that have revolutionized our concept of the atom and > the molecule and the interaction of forces and energies on the subtlest, > as well as the grandest electro-magnetic scales and ranges of > measurement. The rediscovery of the "astral body" and the "astral > plane" whereby all material forms are made to cohere, and especially > those biochemical mixtures in which intelligent consciousness and life > of a higher character is seen (plants, animals, humans). Science has in > fact already entered the realm of energy that leads to an understanding > of the power of the astral and the Pranic energies that make forms > possible and given them the life they enjoy as entities with a definite > purpose in the great scheme of things. [ Mr. Judge in the OCEAN OF > THEOSOPHY speaks of this critical date and gives information on this > theme on p. 125 of the book. ] > > > > The psychological origins and potential achievements of human > consciousness - and its unknown ranges - have been sensed, vaguely > sketched, and it remains for a serious and concentrated investigation to > clear away the concept that all this vast interacting group of diverse > molds or model-forms that underlie the many physical forms and keep them > "living" is moved by one central cooperative INTELLIGENCE and many > Independent But Voluntarily Cooperating Intelligences. > > > > Man's consciousness represents one of the most advanced powers focused > in such a form at this time, and from this condition the doors open to > an understanding of the Universe, its purpose (see SD I 268) and he can > understand what his own duty and responsibility is as he passes through > the successive degrees of initiation that are possible to him - by his > own determination and will. > > > > Writing on this concept Mr. Judge in THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (p. 4) > says: this "is an age of transition," when every system of thought, > science, religion, government, and society is changing, preparing for an > alteration into that state which will permit the race to advance to the > point suitable for these elder brothers to introduce their actual > presence to our sight." > > > > Another article speaks of the "precursors of HPB," of the vow taken by > Tsong-Kha-Pa in Tibet to send a mission to the West each hundred years. > And we can trace from that date in the 14th Century, the imprint of the > work of various "Messengers" whose task it was to revive in the West the > memory of the esoteric Wisdom. In the 15th Cent. We had the revival in > Florence of the study of Plato spearheaded by Paschalis, Pico della > Mirandola and Marsilio Ficino. > > > > The next century (16th) saw the work of Giordano Bruno, Paracelsus, Van > Helmont, Reuchlin and Trithemius. > > > > > > And then came that of Boehme (17th Cent.), Eugenius Philalethes, and > with them the > > Rosicrucians, Hermetic Philosophers and Fire Philosophers. > > > > > > In the 18th Cent. we have St. Germain, St. Martin, Cagliostro and > Mesmer. Also the Cambridge Platonists worked then and so did Thomas > Taylor who translated the Greek philosophers into English. > > > > In closing, here is a passage from the SECRET DOCTRINE where HPB speaks > of the future: > > > > "...it is the esoteric teachings, and the initiates of the Future, whose > mission it is, and will be, to redeem and ennoble once more the > primitive conceptions so sadly profaned by its crude and gross > application to exoteric dogmas and personations by theological and > ecclesiastical religionists. The silent worship of abstract or > 'noumenal' Nature, the only divine manifestation, is the one ennobling > religion of Humanity." [ SD I 381 fn ) > > > > > > Who are these "initiates of the Future ?" > > > > Perhaps, the inspiring Pledge of Kwan-Yin offers a hint: they are > ourselves. > > > > It reads: > > > > Never will I seek nor receive private individual salvations. > > > Never will I enter into final peace alone. > > But forever and everywhere will I live and strive > > For the redemption of every creature throughout the world. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Dallas > > > > > > ============================= > > > > > > HPB speaks to the importance of cycles and dates in her > articles: > > > > STARS AND NUMBERS Theosophist June 1881 > > [ ULT Edn., HPB's Articles Vol. III, p. 401 ] > > > > OUR CYCLE AND THE NEXT Lucifer Vol. 4, p. 177 > > [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 367 ] > > > > THE CYCLE MOVETH Lucifer March 1890 > > [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 355 ] > > > > > > THE NEW CYCLE 1889 La Revue Theosophique March 1889 > > [ ULT Edn., Vol. I, p. 397 ] > > > > > > WILL MASTERS' HELP BE WITHDRAWN IN 1898 UNTIL 1975 ? > > - Judge, PATH, Nov. 1894, > > [ W Q Judge's Articles, ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 76 ] > > > > > > ARE WE DESERTED ? -- Judge PATH, December 1892, > > [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 78 ] > > > > > > PROPHECIES BY H P BLAVATSKY -- Judge > > [ ULT Edn., Vol. II, p. 81 ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Nisk98114@aol.com Thu Jan 01 07:37:37 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34231 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 15:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 15:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r08.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.104) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 15:37:36 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id r.9e.860cdd (4246) for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:37:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9e.860cdd.2d2598bb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 10:37:31 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 152.163.225.104 From: Nisk98114@aol.com Subject: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Thu Jan 01 11:40:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53471 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 19:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 19:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 19:40:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.179] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2004 19:40:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:40:20 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9e.860cdd.2d2598bb@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 315 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 62.234.183.216 Subject: Re: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker Why not? All is more easy to find in the books. And the books are not closed, only for the ones did not understand. So here it is the same. gr Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Nisk98114@a... wrote: > Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mhart@idirect.ca Thu Jan 01 13:16:54 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99343 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 21:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 21:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO keymaster.look.ca) (207.136.80.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 21:16:53 -0000 Received: from on-osh-ap3-02-44.look.ca ([216.154.45.91] helo=idirect.ca) by keymaster.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AcABY-0002L6-0x for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:16:52 +0000 Message-ID: <3FF48E2F.1020608@idirect.ca> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:16:31 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@yahoogroups.com" X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on filter3.look.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-99.6 required=6.5 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.60 X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.0 (built Mon Jun 2 17:21:47 GMT 2003) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.136.80.9 From: Mauri Subject: re to Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn Leon, in a series of posts on Theosophy Study List (http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l) over the last several weeks I offered some input on some of what I thought might be your concerns re such as per your recent post re "science and Theosophy," among other things. Thanking you for your challenging comments. Best wishes, Mauri From mhart@idirect.ca Thu Jan 01 13:51:11 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56610 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2004 21:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2004 21:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jandor.look.ca) (207.136.80.122) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2004 21:51:11 -0000 Received: from [216.154.45.51] (helo=idirect.ca) by jandor.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AcAij-0001KH-Bq for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:51:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3FF49649.2050603@idirect.ca> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:51:05 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@yahoogroups.com" X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on filter2.look.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-99.6 required=6.5 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.60 X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.0 (built Mon Jun 2 17:21:47 GMT 2003) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.136.80.122 From: Mauri Subject: re Leon and Master Jesus X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn Leon wrote: << Didn't the Master Jesus say, "The Kingdom of Heaven must be taken with the sword?">> How would you know, Leon, what Master Jesus said? I'm tending to be under the impression that whatever anybody said a couple of thousand years ago might, at best, have been somewhat altered over time by a number of people. <> Last time I used any kind of what might be called "force" in my meditation, a long time ago, the result was such an odd sensantion on one side of my head that I had to give up that kind of meditation. Lately, my "just being" doesn't seem to have given me any problems. I guess I might be saying that how one interprets "force" might be relevant in connection with whatever, not that I would use that word in relation to spirituality or meditation, myself. Speculatively, and best wishes, Mauri From arielaretziel@yahoo.com Thu Jan 01 19:03:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: arielaretziel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 611 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 03:03:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2004 03:03:22 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 03:03:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17a.2448ab6e.2d22b844@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2224 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "arielaretziel" X-Originating-IP: 68.38.77.85 Subject: Re: Esoteric Truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=167898668 X-Yahoo-Profile: arielaretziel I would have to remark that Truth by it's very nature is ESOTERIC. It can only be approached but never known. Much like a scientist slowly aprroaches a greater understanding of nature, making more accurate measurements, and replacing old theories with new. It's an UNLIMITED MYSTERY and with each gain in knowledge one realizes how much more there is to know. ARIEL --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 12/27/03 12:34:24 PM, alden_parent@y... writes: > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > If truth is esoteric in any religion; > > Why has it not been completely discovered? > > Because it can't be spoken or written -- since we can only know it through > our own inner vision. Try to explain the smell of a rose, or the way a > beautiful sunset feels. > > > Why was Pythagorus not able to accomplish more? In > > the "Wisdom Religion" which theosophists seek and > > adhere to; > > Same reason. > > > Why is there an ocean of absorption but > > no complete truth, only fragments? > > Because we each have to find the truth for ourselves. > How can we know what truth is known to another? > > > Which is greater Wisdom or Truth? > > Neither... Because you can't have one without the other. > > > Is either or both a gift and does > > it belong only to the complex in mind, or to the > > meanest and simplest? > > Truth or Wisdom can be no gifts ... Because both have to be gotten by one's > own self devised and self determined effort in this or past lives. When we > have them in this life it might only then be considered as a gift to oneself from > one's Self. > > > Who can claim Truth & Wisdom > > as there own, some or all? > > Only those who have it and can express it in everything they do or say. > > > I would be careful in > > saying only "some," because it could turn out to be > > a Lie and not Truth, or Wise. > > Truth and Wisdom have no room for Ego, and > > that's the Truth! > > Absolutely. > > Anonymous > > > Unity-Love-Wisdom > > > > Alden > > > > From arielaretziel@yahoo.com Thu Jan 01 19:08:59 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: arielaretziel@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75665 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 03:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 03:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 03:08:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.140] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2004 03:08:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 03:08:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c3cecb$6b833630$6313f4d8@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8358 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "arielaretziel" X-Originating-IP: 68.38.77.85 Subject: Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=167898668 X-Yahoo-Profile: arielaretziel Q. What to do with a Truth? A. Keep searching beyond that Truth. This is an act of worship. Remember, "There is no religion higher than Truth." A^A^ --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: > Dec 30 20003 > > Re: What to do with a "truth?" > > > Dear friend: > > I would say: explained and shared invariably. But there is a question > of timing here. The sharing invokes a proviso at least.. > > One proviso is that a dangerous truth should not be revealed to one who > has not yet the ability to use it safely and wisely. The way in which > Nature (our Universe) handles the problem is a good example. > > We will have to grant it (as a vast unit of intelligence) the faculty of > an entire range of consciousness and knowledge extending from ignorance > to complete universal cognisance. > > Also you will have to grant to its components a progressive scale of > incremental individual intelligence (wheels within wheels ?). These, > impersonally, will take over local applications and supervision of the > vast Plan. Perhaps, one might call it an academy of immortal wise men? > But then immortality to every component of the Universe must also be > granted, together with the innate potential of (eventually) itself > entering this "academy." As I see it, this kind of "academy" runs pari > passu with the whole of evolution. It may be called the Universal MIND, > perhaps. If so, the concept of the "academicians" forming a > "Brotherhood of the Wise" is not a foreign or an impossible concept. > > And -- one is able to see in this the schema and plan of the > Theosophical philosophy. But this comes through if one studies it in > its entirety. > > As to the imparting of truth. It is an unhappy situation for the one who > knows, possesses and may be using the "truth," since it makes him / her > responsible for any abuse made the one to whom he entrusts it. This is > said to be a part of the karma of becoming a "teacher" in howsoever > small a manner. It is a part of the tribute one pays for being a > "human." > > Is not the "Family of Man" all inclusive? It reaches far beyond > (theosophically) the living of this single life, and encompasses a whole > string of previous lives during which the singular intelligence of any > "man (mind)" develops and grows in perception. The concept of > immortality begins, as concept, with the immortal "atom." If endowed > with intelligence, it pursues an ever more self-guided life passing from > form to form until it acquires the mental capacity of a "human." > Thereafter "reincarnation" becomes the process of continued study and > experience. We are all involved, if you agree so far, in this universal > "School." > > And this brings up the delicate subject of morality and ethics -- and > how does one determine the fitness of another. A very ticklish > situation. Quite unpleasant in fact. > > It would seem from a careful study of Theosophy that such care is > already in place. Many approach Theosophy and are daunted by the mixture > of elements presented as an integrated and working whole. It seems to > have been concealed for long. But how? Why? By whom? Does it do any > good? Does it help anyone? > > The inquirer is presented with information, things to read and think > about on his own. Included is a study of the development of ideas, and > of history, from antiquity up to the present. There is no compulsion, he > is left free to make his own decisions. > > Even a starting point is not made precise, as it is assumed his inquiry > has led him to this field of study, and he has fitted himself to guide > his own study. Information will always be provided when asked for. > > He is expected to mold his own tools: mind, thought, will, desire, in > fact all that goes to make him a conjoined personality (living this > present life), and, secondly, an IMMORTAL Spiritual SELF interior to > him. This is One who helps and guides him when appealed to. In final > matters it is always the inner SELF (not egotism or selfishness, but the > impersonal and universal MAN) that is the surest guide for each of us. > Some call it "intuition," and some call its messages: "The Voice of > Conscience." > > What is your reaction to this? > > How familiar are you with theosophical literature? The modern > representation of ancient Theosophy, as a "stream," started with ISIS > UNVEILED, and this was followed by the queries and answers in articles > printed in THEOSOPHIST. The SECRET DOCTRINE was published and for > new-comers The KEY TO THEOSOPHY was published. The SECRET DOCTRINE > brought out many inquiries focusing on the obvious fact of a secret > ancient School of the Wise. For those who sensed the Inner SELF the > booklet The VOICE OF THE SILENCE was issued --m indicating the lines of > inner discipline that leads the "personal self" -- the mask we presently > wear -- to the INNER, the IMMORTAL SELF. > > Best wishes, > > Dallas > > ============================= > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: alden > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:44 PM > To: > Subject: Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers > > > > Dallas, > > I found your dissertation to be both eloquent > and sound. What about truth? Once it is possessed > or claimed to be known, does it need to be defended? > Or just shared! > > Alden > > ==================================== > > "Dallas TenBroeck" > > > > Dear Friend: > > > > I tried to understand what you wrote, but I believe I may express > some of the ideas a little different from you. Please consider: > > > > > > Concerning WISDOM and TRUTH.. > > > > As Ideals they exist of themselves. They are the LAWS inherent > since all time in Nature (the Universe). Some call them "God's Laws." > > > > How they are described varies with thinkers, seers and writers. The > > words will also vary with races, languages and cycles of time. > > > > Vanity (as I understand it to be) is a disguised desire for > authority and showing off ones actual or pretended abilities. But all > true > wisdom or truths are self existent, they have to be "common-sense.". > They > are the laws of Nature and prevalent uniformly in nature. No one owns > them and no one has a single master-key to them and to understanding > them. They are the general property of the World / Universe. All > thinking men and women have equal access to them. > > > > > Obedience to wisdom is first an understanding of it, and then a > willing adoption of its evident, common-sense processes. These are > always > > cooperative; and uniformly and impersonally, life-supporting. In > fact every being and everything and being is already subject to the > Laws of Nature. There are no exceptions. We all use them even if we > cannot > > explain them. > > > > Brotherhood and peace as I understand them, are normal states of > > co-existence and cooperation -- each being is in its place and helps > > others as needed. > > > > Disorder, strife, confusion and sorrow are the result of > selfishness and > > ceasing to obey Nature's laws. In some cases this is the result of > > ignorance, and in others it is deliberate WRONG-DOING. The motives > being > > different, the resultant Karma will differ. > > > > Our Universe, our World, and finally our own bodies are good > examples of > > "Unity in diversity." Also of the ability of many different types > and > > kinds of atoms, molecules, cells, and more complex structures -- > > extending to a vague comprehension of the exactitude needed to > guide a living COSMOS -- Some primal; force, power, urge in every one, > .. > etc. to live together in full cooperation. > > > > But who guides? What is the final purpose of living and of our > > endeavors? Why are we all here? And when a life ends, and the body > is dissipated - is there no future? Is reincarnation a reasonable > > alternative to fruitless living? How do we explain individual > > consciousness, and increments of intelligence? > > > > These are, of course, the way in which I would express my ideas on > these subjects. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Dallas > > > > ======================================= From leonmaurer@aol.com Thu Jan 01 23:26:12 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90688 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 07:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 07:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.98) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 07:26:11 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id r.be.2615104 (4238) for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 02:26:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 02:26:08 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 152.163.225.98 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World re Leon , ABC's, science and Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 And hello to you, sufilight, and everyone else. Yes, we each do what we do --'cause that's who we are. ("I yam what I yam 'cause I am what I yam," said Popey the sailor man.'-) And, the "compassion" for doing it should be; the desire to "do unto others what we would have them do into us." And that is, to help those of them who are "our folks," save themselves from pain and suffering due to ignorance of who they are, where they came from, and how they came to be -- (and, hopefully, while being so saved, don't stumble over their own feet in their mouths.:-)... Like some great scientist/theosophers such as Buddha, HPB, Hermes, Plato, Pythagorus, Moses, Yeshuah, Don Juan, and my other teachers (who never put their feet in their mouths) have done for me and my folks... And, like a great Sufi jokester and those who told his stories (as well as some of those other wise ones) did for you and your folks... And, like some other guru's may have done for our friends and their folks... (Who are, really, our folks, heading for the same end in view on different rays that, surely, one of these days, will meet each other along their ways.) "Different strokes for different folks" -- as, I said before, paraphrasing the Buddha. :-) And, when we've all found the final way at the juncture of all the paths, that'll be the time for silence... (After, perhaps, a heart felt, "thank you.") So, thank you, On that note, let us all have a Happy New Year, learning new things, as we ramble along our different paths (that, hopefully, all point in the same direction). Leonardo (smiling))))... One of the student-teachers/darwish's/rebbes/guru-jis/outlaws/Nasrudin's -- who whirl one way, while the world spins the other way. (Which also, of course, has nothing to do with any leading politicians...and the like.) ... )> In a message dated 12/31/03 7:30:16 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk writes: >Hallo all of you, > >My views are: > >Allright. Christmas, Happy new year and all. > >Here is a few stories to help you going...(smile...). > >WHOM DO YOU BELIEVE? > > A neighbor went to Nasrudin, asking to borrow his donkey. "It >is out on loan," said the Mulla. > > At that moment the donkey was heard to bray, somewhere inside >the stable. > > "But I can hear it bray, in there." > > "Whom do you believe," said the Mulla, "me or a donkey?" > >*** This one has of course nothing to do with any leading >'politicians'...and the like... *** > > >A CLOTHESLINE > > A neighbor came to borrow Nasrudin's clothesline. > > "I am sorry but I am drying flour on it." > > "But how can you dry flour on a line?" > > "It is less difficult than you think, when you don't want to >lend it." > >*** Neither has this one...*** > > >So think about it. > >Or why think about it ? >Or why do you or anyone write about what you do ? >(And why do I bother...) > >We all know the view that donkeys are stubborn and read books. >And a clothesline has of course nothing to do with anyones aura or smiling. > >It is not important to meditate on the words 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe' if >you have your mind on something else. In fact there are different modes of >meditation. > >It was - my - words and - my - email. My my my... >Only the words that comes from the heart of compassion has any real value. > silence is the answer - we will have to accept >from >M. Sufilight with peace and love...and a huge smile... From k.hesselink@home.nl Fri Jan 02 01:28:24 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: k.hesselink@home.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50423 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 09:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 09:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 09:28:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.157] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2004 09:28:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 09:28:20 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1347 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.77 From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 Subject: Re: Esoteric Truth X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165183470 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Ariel, That may be true, but on the other hand, with more knowledge comes the ability to act from a more 'safe' position, because the foundation of right action is found. Through trying among other things. To quote HPB: 'There is a road, steep and thorny, beset with perils of every kind, but yet a road, and it leads to the very heart of the Universe: I can tell you how to find those who will show you the secret gateway that opens inward only, and closes fast behind the neophyte for evermore. There is no danger that dauntless courage cannot conquer; there is no trial that spotless purity cannot pass through; there is no difficulty that strong intellect cannot surmount. For those who win onwards there is reward past all telling -- the power to bless and save humanity; for those who fail, there are other lives in which success may come.' (BCW 13:219) Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "arielaretziel" wrote: > > > I would have to remark that Truth by it's very nature is ESOTERIC. It can only > be approached but never known. Much like a scientist slowly aprroaches a > greater understanding of nature, making more accurate measurements, and > replacing old theories with new. It's an UNLIMITED MYSTERY and with each > gain in knowledge one realizes how much more there is to know. > > ARIEL From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 02 02:05:45 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74719 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 10:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 10:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 10:05:44 -0000 Received: from pool0099.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.188.99] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcMBa-00006d-00; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:05:43 -0800 To: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 02:04:59 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c3d117$e90640e0$63bcb2d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <9e.860cdd.2d2598bb@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.116 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Theos-World Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Jan 1 2004 Re: OCCULT TALES on line. As far as I know some of the stories are, but possibly not all of them. Do you want some I have "on line?" Or any specific ones? Best wishes, Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Nisk98114@aol.com [mailto:Nisk98114@aol.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:38 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Question... Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 02 04:54:36 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55793 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 12:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 12:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 12:54:35 -0000 Received: from pool0104.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.104] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcOoy-0000VT-00; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 04:54:33 -0800 To: "AA-Blavatsky_Study" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 04:53:56 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c3d12f$8510e190$63bcb2d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.116 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: OCCULT TALES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Jan 2 2004 It is a compendium of several stories: "OCCULT TALES" were authored by HPB and W Q Judge and are brought together in a book titled THE TELL-TALE PICTURE GALLERY Available through THEOSOPHY COMPANY, Los Angeles=20=20=09 www.theosophycompany.org www.ult.org www.U LT.org E-mail: inquiry@theosophycompany.org Publications=20=20 E-mail : theosco@sbcglobal.net Web Page: http://www.theosophycompany.org =20 "SHOPPING CART" added for purchase of books E-mail to: http://www.theosophycompany.org/cart_blavatsky.html Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- Nisk98a... wrote: > Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? >=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 02 04:54:50 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32252 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 12:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 12:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 12:54:50 -0000 Received: from pool0104.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.104] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcOp5-0000VT-00; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 04:54:39 -0800 To: "AA-BN--Study" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 04:53:56 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c3d12f$8e38a190$63bcb2d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.116 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Jan 2 2004 Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers Dear Friend: May offer some suggestions: (based on your observations made below) Every truth has a cause.=20=20 Every "Truth" is already known by some or many, as facts and laws in Nature.=20=20 Does the "Mind" know ? Or, does the "Heart" know? How does one differentiate between the two? Do they collaborate naturally? Which is basic, or are they equally interdependent? Cause implies choice. A living mind chooses using logic and thought as well as desire and will. What can be known of these? Choice implies freedom as well as limitations. Those are both inner and outer conditions. How does a "Mind" become conditioned? How does a "free mind" become located in an area where it is both "bound and free?" Is any mind totally "free?" If there are limits can they be determined? What is implied here? How old is the free mind? When the body finally dies where does it go? Is reincarnation a possibility -- as a means for the continued storing of experience (as memory) and the progressive growth of intelligence?=20 How does one guide one's "search?" It becomes clear there is something in us which can guide the "Mind." What are its properties? Are "Intuition," the "Voice of Conscience," "Wisdom," evidence of its existence?=20 "Religion" is derived from the Latin: "re" (again) and "ligiare" (to bind together). Presumably one can bind ones' self (by choice) to others, as well as to ideas, circumstances, and also to feelings.=20=20 Worship (to me) implies devotion to the general well-being -- or "brotherhood in general, as a practice."=20=20 Living as we do in this world, in our bodies (made up of so many diverse elements and structures) are we not already in a "brotherhood?"=20=20 What are the duties and responsibilities of a "brother?" After identification are we willing to carry them out? We all know of individuals who have developed high virtues and apply them in daily life. Should they not be emulated? Should we not try to find out what are the principles they use and have developed? Does being a "Master" (as a state or a condition of highly trained mind and heart) imply a knowledge of both "Head" and "Heart: doctrines? [Doctrines, to me, means statements of facts -- truths -- that all can know and use.] Thank you for your thought-provoking questions. I hope these suggestions open some avenues of thought and response. These are puzzling to me and I have been working on them for a long time. Any help? Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: a . a>. Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:09 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Truism relative to Masters/Teachers Q. What to do with a Truth? A. Keep searching beyond that Truth. This is an act of worship. Remember, "There is no religion higher than Truth." A^A^ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- "Dallas TenBroeck" Dec 30 20003 >=20 > Re: What to do with a "truth?" >=20 >=20 > Dear friend: >=20 > I would say: explained and shared invariably. But there is a question > of timing here. The sharing invokes a proviso at least.. >=20 > One proviso is that a dangerous truth should not be revealed to one who > has not yet the ability to use it safely and wisely. The way in which > Nature (our Universe) handles the problem is a good example. >=20 > We will have to grant it (as a vast unit of intelligence) the faculty of > an entire range of consciousness and knowledge extending from=20 ignorance to complete universal cognisance.=20=20 >=20 > Also you will have to grant to its components a progressive scale of > incremental individual intelligence (wheels within wheels ?). These, > impersonally, will take over local applications and supervision of the > vast Plan. Perhaps, one might call it an academy of immortal wise men? > But then immortality to every component of the Universe must also be > granted, together with the innate potential of (eventually) itself > entering this "academy." As I see it, this kind of "academy" runs pari > passu with the whole of evolution. It may be called the Universal MIND, > perhaps. If so, the concept of the "academicians" forming a=20 > "Brotherhood of the Wise" is not a foreign or an impossible concept.=20 >=20 > And -- one is able to see in this the schema and plan of the > Theosophical philosophy. But this comes through if one studies it in > its entirety. >=20 > As to the imparting of truth. It is an unhappy situation for the one who > knows, possesses and may be using the "truth," since it makes him / her > responsible for any abuse made the one to whom he entrusts it. This is > said to be a part of the karma of becoming a "teacher" in howsoever > small a manner. It is a part of the tribute one pays for being a > "human."=20=20 >=20 > Is not the "Family of Man" all inclusive? It reaches far beyond > (theosophically) the living of this single life, and encompasses a whole > string of previous lives during which the singular intelligence of any > "man (mind)" develops and grows in perception. The concept of > immortality begins, as concept, with the immortal "atom." If endowed > with intelligence, it pursues an ever more self-guided life passing from > form to form until it acquires the mental capacity of a "human." > Thereafter "reincarnation" becomes the process of continued study and > experience. We are all involved, if you agree so far, in this universal > "School." >=20 > And this brings up the delicate subject of morality and ethics -- and > how does one determine the fitness of another. A very ticklish > situation. Quite unpleasant in fact. >=20 > It would seem from a careful study of Theosophy that such care is > already in place. Many approach Theosophy and are daunted by the=20 mixture of elements presented as an integrated and working whole. It seems to > have been concealed for long. But how? Why? By whom? Does it do any > good? Does it help anyone?=20 >=20 > The inquirer is presented with information, things to read and think > about on his own. Included is a study of the development of ideas, and > of history, from antiquity up to the present. There is no compulsion, he > is left free to make his own decisions. >=20 > Even a starting point is not made precise, as it is assumed his inquiry > has led him to this field of study, and he has fitted himself to guide > his own study. Information will always be provided when asked for.=20=20 >=20 > He is expected to mold his own tools: mind, thought, will, desire, in > fact all that goes to make him a conjoined personality (living this > present life), and, secondly, an IMMORTAL Spiritual SELF interior to > him. This is One who helps and guides him when appealed to. In final > matters it is always the inner SELF (not egotism or selfishness, but the > impersonal and universal MAN) that is the surest guide for each of us. > Some call it "intuition," and some call its messages: "The Voice of > Conscience."=20 >=20 > What is your reaction to this?=20=20 >=20 > How familiar are you with theosophical literature? The modern > representation of ancient Theosophy, as a "stream," started with ISIS > UNVEILED, and this was followed by the queries and answers in articles > printed in THEOSOPHIST. The SECRET DOCTRINE was published and for > new-comers The KEY TO THEOSOPHY was published. The SECRET=20 DOCTRINE brought out many inquiries focusing on the obvious fact of a secret > ancient School of the Wise. For those who sensed the Inner SELF the > booklet The VOICE OF THE SILENCE was issued --m indicating the lines of > inner discipline that leads the "personal self" -- the mask we presently > wear -- to the INNER, the IMMORTAL SELF.=20 >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 02 05:05:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18435 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 13:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 13:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 13:05:56 -0000 Received: from pool0104.cvx30-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.140.104] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcOzn-0001pw-00; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 05:05:44 -0800 To: "AA-BN--Study" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 05:05:26 -0800 Message-ID: <001001c3d131$1cf9ee10$63bcb2d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <002801c3d0ac$e8e54e00$dc3602cc@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.116 From: "Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: RE: Ten Year 1995 Study Gave Dowsing 96% Success Rate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jan 2 2004 =20 =20 Re DOWSING -- Success testing under scientific conditions =20 =20 Thanks Fali: =20 Dowsing =96 a long-time interest of mine.=20=20 =20 Glad to see it gets some =93scientific=94 recognition and some =93proof. =20 If you come across any more interesting items like this, do let me know. =20 Thanks=20 =20 =20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: fali Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 1:19 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Fw: Ten Year 1995 Study Gave Dowsing 96% Success Rate =20 =20 =20 Thanks to Dave Haith. ----------- WATER DOWSING IN ARID REGIONS: =20 >From the Journal of Scientific Exploration Stanford University Stanford, Ca. Stanford, Ca. USA=20 March 27, 1995=20 http://twm.co.nz/dowsing_jse_com.html In an article published in the current issue of the peer-reviewed Journal of Scientific Exploration, a science journal with the editorial offices at Stanford University, Professor Hans-Dieter Betz, a physicist at the University of Munich, presents the results of a German government sponsored program to test and apply dowsing methods to locate water sources in arid regions. This ten year project involved over 2000 drillings in Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia, Yemen and other countries and is thus the most ambitious experiment with water dowsing ever carried out. While an adequate water supply is not a major problem in most industrialized nations, it is estimated that water pollution is responsible for some 80% of all diseases in Third World countries. Lack of high quality drinking water affects approximately two billion people on a worldwide scale and is a problem that is growing, according to the United Nations. The enormity of this problem led the German government to initiate a long range program via the GTZ (Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Technische Zussammenarbeit or German Association for Technical Cooperation) to explore innovative water detection methods in arid regions. Motivated by both the high cost and modest success rate of purely conventional hydrogeological methods, the GTZ project teamed geological experts, experienced dowsers and a scientific group led by Professor Betz to monitor and evaluate the results.=20 The outcome was striking. An overall success rate of 96% (by dowsers) was achieved in 691 drillings in Sri Lanka. Based on geological experience in that area, a success rate of 30-50% would be expected from conventional techniques alone.=20 But the overall success rate is not the only indication that the dowsing phenomenon is of considerable practical use. According to Betz, what is both puzzling but enormously useful, is that in hundreds of cases the dowsers were able to predict the depth of the water source and the yield of the well to within 10 to 20 percent. We carefully considered the statistics of these correlations, and they far exceeded lucky guesses. Numerous conventional explanations for the success of dowsing-located drill sites were carefully examined by Betz in a series of reports summarized in the article. Virtually all of the drill sites were in regions where the odds of finding water by random drilling were extremely low, thus eliminating the success by chance hypothesis. Another argument sometimes advanced is that dowsers get subtle clues from the landscape and geology, perhaps without even being consciously aware of their highly developed detective skills. This too was ruled out in various ways, the most impressive being the ability of dowsers to locate underground sources, often 100 feet down, whose streams are so narrow that misplacing the drill site by a few feet would yield a dry hole. Such precision is far beyond any know geological indicators. The scientists also carried out laboratory tests, placing water pipes underground or in a test room one story below where dowsing subjects were asked to walk around and find the artificial sources of flowing water. Such idealized tests were not successful enough to account for the real-life drilling results. This led Betz to hypothesize that it is not some unknown biological sensitivity to water that underlies the phenomenon. Betz conjectures that there may be subtle electromagnetic gradients resulting from the fissures and water flows creating changes in the electrical properties of rock and soil. The dowsers somehow sense these gradients in a hypersensitive state. Says Betz: I=B9m a scientist, and those are my best plausible scientific hypotheses at this point. But there are two things that I am certain of after ten years of field research. A combination of dowsing and modern hydrogeophysical techniques can be both more successful and far less expensive than we had thought. And we need to run a lot more tests, because we have established that dowsing works, but have no idea how or why. 1. The American Dowser, Fall 1995, Volume 35, No. 4 The American Society of Dowsers=20 =20 This work was published in The Journal of Scientific Exploration, / Stanford University - Unconventional Water Detection, by Hans-Dieter Betz, 1995. Read the entire article on-line: http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/betz/1.html ------------ NHNE News List: To subscribe, send a message to: nhnenews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To review current posts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/messages Published by NewHeavenNewEarth (NHNE) eMail: nhne@nhne.com NHNE Website: http://www.nhne.com/ Phone: (928) 282-6120 Fax: (815) 346-1492 Appreciate what we are doing? You can say so with a tax-deductible donation: http://www.nhne.com/main/donations.html P.O. Box 2242 Sedona, AZ 86339 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Nisk98114@aol.com Fri Jan 02 10:27:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59389 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 18:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 18:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 18:27:42 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id r.1d3.17278853 (4446) for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:27:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d3.17278853.2d271218@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:27:36 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.36 From: Nisk98114@aol.com Subject: re Leon and Master Jesus X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message: 7 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:51:05 -0500 From: Mauri Subject: re Leon and Master Jesus Leon wrote: << Didn't the Master Jesus=20 say, "The Kingdom of Heaven must be taken with the sword?">> How would you know, Leon, what Master=20 Jesus said? I'm tending to be under the=20 impression that whatever anybody said a=20 couple of thousand years ago might, at=20 best, have been somewhat altered over time=20 by a number of people. <> Last time I used any kind of what might be=20 called "force" in my meditation, a long=20 time ago, the result was such an odd=20 sensantion on one side of my head that I=20 had to give up that kind of meditation.=20 Lately, my "just being" doesn't seem to=20 have given me any problems. I guess I=20 might be saying that how one interprets=20 "force" might be relevant in connection=20 with whatever, not that I would use that=20 word in relation to spirituality or=20 meditation, myself. Speculatively, and best wishes, Mauri BUDDHA=E2=80=99S LAST DISCOURSE=20 III =E2=80=93 The Virtue of Energetic Striving O bhikkhus, if you strive diligently, nothing will be difficult=20 for you. As a little water trickling constantly can bore a hole=20 through a rock, so must you ever strive energetically. If the mind of=20 a disciple becomes idle and inattentive, he will resemble one who=20 tries to make fire by friction, but rests before the heat is=20 sufficient. However much he wants fire, he cannot get it. Such is the=20 meaning of energetic striving. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alden_parent@yahoo.com Fri Jan 02 11:11:55 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: alden_parent@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30629 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60204.mail.yahoo.com) (216.109.118.99) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 19:11:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20040102191152.90486.qmail@web60204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.80.65.235] by web60204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:11:52 PST Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:11:52 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1d3.17278853.2d271218@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.109.118.99 From: alden parent Subject: Re: Theos-World re Leon and Master Jesus X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=166797057 X-Yahoo-Profile: alden_parent Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nisk98114@aol.com wrote: Message: 7 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:51:05 -0500 From: Mauri=20 Subject: re Leon and Master Jesus Leon wrote: << Didn't the Master Jesus=20 say, "The Kingdom of Heaven must be taken with the sword?">> =20 Dear friends, "the Kingdom of Heaven must be taken with the finger of God!" The finger being "Wisdom" ! And by Wisdom were you save, not by=20 army but by Wisdom ! =20 Have a nice = day, = Alden How would you know, Leon, what Master=20 Jesus said? I'm tending to be under the=20 impression that whatever anybody said a=20 couple of thousand years ago might, at=20 best, have been somewhat altered over time=20 by a number of people. < Doesn't effort =3D force -- even if=20 interpreted as a directed force of will=20 leading to "concentration" of the mind=20 that is the first and final rule of=20 meditation? In the "Ten Bulls" koan of=20 Zen teaching, the bull, representing the=20 mind, must be conquered by force. Isn't=20 that conquering shown in the Sixth Bull as=20 the boy riding his bull with a whip in his=20 belt and his hands on a flute? Aren't all=20 true students of theosophy, that boy? >> Last time I used any kind of what might be=20 called "force" in my meditation, a long=20 time ago, the result was such an odd=20 sensantion on one side of my head that I=20 had to give up that kind of meditation.=20 Lately, my "just being" doesn't seem to=20 have given me any problems. I guess I=20 might be saying that how one interprets=20 "force" might be relevant in connection=20 with whatever, not that I would use that=20 word in relation to spirituality or=20 meditation, myself. Speculatively, and best wishes, Mauri BUDDHA=E2=80=99S LAST DISCOURSE=20 III =E2=80=93 The Virtue of Energetic Striving O bhikkhus, if you strive diligently, nothing will be difficult=20 for you. As a little water trickling constantly can bore a hole=20 through a rock, so must you ever strive energetically. If the mind of=20 a disciple becomes idle and inattentive, he will resemble one who=20 tries to make fire by friction, but rests before the heat is=20 sufficient. However much he wants fire, he cannot get it. Such is the=20 meaning of energetic striving. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alden_parent@yahoo.com Fri Jan 02 12:24:17 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: alden_parent@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63864 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2004 20:24:15 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:24:12 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 637 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "alden_parent" X-Originating-IP: 192.80.65.234 Subject: Three Elements of Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=166797057 X-Yahoo-Profile: alden_parent Hello everyone, We know that "matter" and "anti-matter" along with a third "dark matter" (funny energy) are in the universes. I would say that the dark matter perhaps had an effect on the other two not cancelling each other out after the " Big Bang". I would also think that dark matter is perhaps also the origin of the spiritual/metaphysical in those universes, assuming it was already in existence: Or is it too as a result of the "Bang"? What do you think anyone? (Leon) ? Scientist! Alden From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Fri Jan 02 13:30:14 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92223 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 21:30:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.120] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2004 21:30:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:30:08 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 5786 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "christinaleestemaker" X-Originating-IP: 62.234.183.216 Subject: Re: Three Elements of Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756 X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker Hallo Alden. Even I read somewhere that there was not a big bang at all. VORTEX THEORY=20 NEWS RELEASE On October 8, 2003 at the 53 International Conference on Nuclear=20 Spectroscopy, and Nuclear Structure "Nucleus-2003" at Moscow State=20 University in Russia, a blockbuster scientific paper was presented=20 that renders Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity obsolete! The=20 paper called THE BASES OF THE VORTEX THEORY reveals that time is not=20 a fundamental principle of the universe. Instead, time is found to be=20 merely a function of motion; an illusion created by motion! This=20 shocking discovery immediately renders as either totally wrong or=20 obsolete all theories that use time as a fundamental principle upon=20 which to explain the mechanics of the universe =96 including Albert=20 Einstein's Theory of Relativity! This spectacular though shocking discovery was quietly begun=20 fourteen years ago by Mr. R. G. Moon of Fort Lauderdale Florida. Mr.=20 Moon, working upon this project at night and on weekends, spent eight=20 years perfecting the mathematical proof, and six years deducing the=20 revolutionary ramifications. Then, a year ago, Mr. Moon's thesis =96=20 now called the Vortex Theory - was requested, edited, and sponsored=20 by Professor Victor Vasiliev of Moscow, Russia. According to=20 Russian Scientific protocol, the thesis was then refereed by four of=20 Russia's most senior and respected scientists. These scientists, (two=20 are department heads), teaching in three of Moscow's most prestigious=20 Universities have all signed affidavits validating the mathematics of=20 the thesis. The thesis, which gives an exact mathematical explanation=20 of the length shrinkage and time dilation effects of the famous=20 Michelson Morley Experiment, introduces a revolutionary vision of the=20 universe unlike anything anyone has ever seen before. This=20 revolutionary vision is able not only to explain all of the phenomena=20 that the Theory of Relativity could explain, but also, a host of=20 other scientific conundrums that the Theory of Relativity could never=20 explain such as: the explanation of Sir Isaac Newton's three laws of=20 motion (something that has never been done in 300 years of trying!);=20 the explanation of how one photon or electron can create an interference pattern in Young's famous two slit experiment (something=20 that has never been done before!); the explanation of the mysterious=20 =BD spin of particles (something else that has never been done=20 either!). In fact, the "never been done" list also includes: the=20 conservation of charge; the conservation of momentum; the=20 conservation of angular momentum; the conservation of mass and=20 energy; the first ever explanation of the mystery of entropy; the=20 explanation of the recently discovered "dark matter" and "dark=20 energy" effects; what the neutrino particle really is and why it=20 possesses both matter and energy characteristics. And if this isn't enough, the Vortex Theory was then used to re- explain what we previously believed was right, but instead was found=20 to be wrong, such as: the particle and wave characteristics of both=20 matter and energy; how the proton, electron, and neutron are really=20 constructed; the explanation of the four forces of nature; the=20 unification of the forces of nature (something that Albert Einstein=20 spent 20 years of his life trying to do); mass; energy; acceleration;=20 ionic and covalent bonds in chemistry; why all particles possess the=20 same amount of charge; black holes; Plank's Constant; Newton's Law of=20 Gravity; Coulomb's Law of charges; and many more (35 in total!). But=20 perhaps the most important scientific discovery of the Vortex Theory=20 is the discovery of a fifth-force in nature, an anti-gravity force!=20 This once in a lifetime discovery reveals that it is now possible to=20 create artificial anti-gravity technology. This technology would=20 allow a housewife to pick up a car, or an aircraft carrier to fly=20 over the Panama Canal. It will eventually allow men to fly to the=20 Moon and the planets as easily as we fly to Europe or the Far East=20 today. But all of the above is just the beginning! Even more incredible than what the Vortex Theory discovered - is the=20 way the Vortex Theory was discovered! Shockingly, the Vortex Theory=20 was discovered through the words of Jesus in the NEW TESTAMENT! This=20 profound revelation unites science and religion and reveals that two=20 thousand years ago Jesus knew more about the construction of the=20 universe than all of the greatest scientists that ever lived =96=20 including Albert Einstein! And if this isn't enough, the Vortex=20 Theory further reveals an even more profound discovery =96 a=20 blockbuster discovery - that the existence of GOD is not just a=20 philosophical belief, but is now a real scientific possibility! A=20 discovery that makes Atheism an irrational, obsolete belief, and=20 which one day will put the BIBLE not only back in public schools =96=20 but also =96 in every science classroom in the United States!=20 Greetings Christina. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "alden_parent" =20 wrote: >=20 > Hello everyone, >=20 > We know that "matter" and "anti-matter" > along with a third "dark matter" (funny energy)=20 > are in the universes. I would say that the dark > matter perhaps had an effect on the other two not > cancelling each other out after the " Big Bang". > I would also think that dark matter is perhaps > also the origin of the spiritual/metaphysical > in those universes, assuming it was already in > existence: Or is it too as a result of the "Bang"? >=20 > What do you think anyone? (Leon) ? Scientist! >=20 > Alden From samblo@cs.com Fri Jan 02 14:51:43 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65920 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 22:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 22:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 22:51:42 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id r.82.275689e (4426) for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2004 17:51:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <82.275689e.2d274ff8@cs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 17:51:36 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.12.136.6 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Three Elements of Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christina, Thanks. A curious synchronicity here. Early this morning I spent a considerable time reading a website about the "AVT" or Atomic Vortex Theory and when I read my E-mail this afternoon here is a post by about Vortex theory. Just for comparison here is the URL: http://members.tripod.com~SDAI_labs/AVT8.html John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jan 02 15:30:02 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7363 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2004 23:30:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2004 23:30:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2004 23:30:02 -0000 Received: from cpe-66-27-191-40.socal.rr.com ([66.27.191.40] helo=ELDON) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AcYpZ-000055-T9 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:35:49 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:29:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcPRbzeLNq8zwjVvQ8SGJCy/2SJ2fAAFt0ww Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophy.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.254.125 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Subject: Four Aspects of the Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Alden: There's an article in the December 2003 DISCOVER MAGAZINE that talks about your question. On page 45, it says, "Here are the results of the latest cosmic census detailing what is really out there." I believe that "dark matter" and "anti-matter" would be the same thing, like in ordinary matter there's an electron (with a negative charge) that corresponds to a positron (with a positive charge) in dark matter. With both ordinary and dark matter and ordinary and dark energy, we'd have four ingredients to things. From the DISCOVER article, we read: 73 PERCENT DARK ENERGY "Measurement of the expansion of the universe show it is accelerating, apparently driven by a mysterious repulsion. ... the repulsion could be caused by energy latent in space itself." 23 PERCERT DARK MATTER "Observations of the way galaxies move and rotate show that they seem to be surrounded by a vast amount of unseen matter. ... most of this matter cannot consist of ordinary atoms." 4 PERCENT NONLUMINOUS ORDINARY MATTER "The Big Bang models, along with the studies of primordial microwaves, predict how many conventional atoms should be out there -- and the result is much more that can be accounted for by stars alone. Some dark objects have been directly observed or indirectly detected by the way they deflect light or interact gravitationally with visible stars." 0.4 PERCENT LUMINOUS MATTER "These are the stars, nebulas, and galaxies we see ... The density of luminous matter is so small that it falls within the rounding errors of dark matter and dark energy, which is why the numbers add up to more that 100 percent." -- Eldon -----Original Message----- From: alden_parent [mailto:alden_parent@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 12:24 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Three Elements of Universe Hello everyone, We know that "matter" and "anti-matter" along with a third "dark matter" (funny energy) are in the universes. I would say that the dark matter perhaps had an effect on the other two not cancelling each other out after the " Big Bang". I would also think that dark matter is perhaps also the origin of the spiritual/metaphysical in those universes, assuming it was already in existence: Or is it too as a result of the "Bang"? What do you think anyone? (Leon) ? Scientist! Alden Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dennw3k@earthlink.net Fri Jan 02 16:40:05 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: dennw3k@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61674 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 00:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 00:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 00:40:04 -0000 Received: from pool0241.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.241] helo=u7k5a4) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AcZpj-0005yA-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:40:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c3d193$8353a2c0$f1c6b3d1@u7k5a4> To: References: <9e.860cdd.2d2598bb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 17:44:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.74 From: "Dennis Kier" Subject: Re: Theos-World Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38993992 About Occult Tales, I don't know. I see no other replies from those who do know, so try this site, that does have a lot of HPB books available on-line. www.theosociety.org I don't believe that there are any available from the Wheaton organization. www.blavatsky.net has a lot of material. Perhaps they have it, or a reference to it. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:37 AM Subject: Theos-World Question... > Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? > > From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jan 02 17:07:57 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66443 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 01:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 01:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 01:07:40 -0000 Received: from cpe-66-27-191-40.socal.rr.com ([66.27.191.40] helo=ELDON) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AcaM4-0004FU-Ku for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:13:28 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 17:07:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <000501c3d193$8353a2c0$f1c6b3d1@u7k5a4> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcPRkvJ58IaBReiuRKuCimeEOZ2WMgAApGGQ Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophy.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.254.125 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Subject: RE: Theos-World Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Hi. I did a quick search on google.com and found an online copy of OCCULT TALES by W.Q. Judge. The keywords I searched on were Blavatsky "Occult Tales" online I got the url: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/wqjtales/tales-hp.htm Theosophical University Press has many theosophical books online. See http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/tup-onl.htm for their online titles. -- Eldon -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kier [mailto:dennw3k@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 5:45 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Question... About Occult Tales, I don't know. I see no other replies from those who do know, so try this site, that does have a lot of HPB books available on-line. www.theosociety.org I don't believe that there are any available from the Wheaton organization. www.blavatsky.net has a lot of material. Perhaps they have it, or a reference to it. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:37 AM Subject: Theos-World Question... > Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? > > Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bartl@sprynet.com Fri Jan 02 19:29:25 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35456 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 03:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 03:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.12) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 03:29:25 -0000 Received: from nycmny1-ar7-4-3-085-190.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.3.85.190] helo=sprynet.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AccTc-0004hZ-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 19:29:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3FF6372E.6020105@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 22:29:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <9e.860cdd.2d2598bb@aol.com> <000501c3d193$8353a2c0$f1c6b3d1@u7k5a4> In-Reply-To: <000501c3d193$8353a2c0$f1c6b3d1@u7k5a4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.217.120.12 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Dennis Kier wrote: > About Occult Tales, I don't know. > > I see no other replies from those who do know, so try this site, that > does have a lot of HPB books available on-line. Sorry I didn't pick this one up the first time through. Those of you looking for them (they're OK stories, but tend to start a little on the slow side), they're called NIGHTMARE TALES. Here's the TUP online edition: http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/nightmar/night-hp.htm From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jan 02 19:51:52 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83874 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 03:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 03:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 03:51:52 -0000 Received: from cpe-66-27-191-40.socal.rr.com ([66.27.191.40] helo=ELDON) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Accuy-0001c6-EM for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 02 Jan 2004 22:57:40 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:51:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcPRbzeLNq8zwjVvQ8SGJCy/2SJ2fAAFt0wwAAmKgtA= In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophy.com X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.91.254.125 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Subject: RE: Theos-World Four Aspects of the Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker One other comment on this note based on an article in DISCOVER MAGAZINE. It doesn't mention dark and light energy, just dark energy and three kinds of matter (non-luminous ordinary, luminous ordinary, and dark). There's one type of energy and three of matter, with energy accounting for about three times as much of what exists (.73 is about 3 times .27). -----Original Message----- From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 3:30 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Four Aspects of the Universe Alden: There's an article in the December 2003 DISCOVER MAGAZINE that talks about your question. On page 45, it says, "Here are the results of the latest cosmic census detailing what is really out there." I believe that "dark matter" and "anti-matter" would be the same thing, like in ordinary matter there's an electron (with a negative charge) that corresponds to a positron (with a positive charge) in dark matter. With both ordinary and dark matter and ordinary and dark energy, we'd have four ingredients to things. From the DISCOVER article, we read: 73 PERCENT DARK ENERGY "Measurement of the expansion of the universe show it is accelerating, apparently driven by a mysterious repulsion. ... the repulsion could be caused by energy latent in space itself." 23 PERCERT DARK MATTER "Observations of the way galaxies move and rotate show that they seem to be surrounded by a vast amount of unseen matter. ... most of this matter cannot consist of ordinary atoms." 4 PERCENT NONLUMINOUS ORDINARY MATTER "The Big Bang models, along with the studies of primordial microwaves, predict how many conventional atoms should be out there -- and the result is much more that can be accounted for by stars alone. Some dark objects have been directly observed or indirectly detected by the way they deflect light or interact gravitationally with visible stars." 0.4 PERCENT LUMINOUS MATTER "These are the stars, nebulas, and galaxies we see ... The density of luminous matter is so small that it falls within the rounding errors of dark matter and dark energy, which is why the numbers add up to more that 100 percent." -- Eldon -----Original Message----- From: alden_parent [mailto:alden_parent@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 12:24 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Three Elements of Universe Hello everyone, We know that "matter" and "anti-matter" along with a third "dark matter" (funny energy) are in the universes. I would say that the dark matter perhaps had an effect on the other two not cancelling each other out after the " Big Bang". I would also think that dark matter is perhaps also the origin of the spiritual/metaphysical in those universes, assuming it was already in existence: Or is it too as a result of the "Bang"? What do you think anyone? (Leon) ? Scientist! Alden Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From netemara888@yahoo.com Sat Jan 03 07:10:47 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: netemara888@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62925 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 15:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 15:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 15:10:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2004 15:10:46 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 15:10:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4725 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "netemara888" X-Originating-IP: 163.179.162.84 Subject: Fwd: le lullisme -- another Master of the Middle Ages? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=100827629 X-Yahoo-Profile: netemara888 --- In theosophy_talks_truth@yahoogroups.com, "netemara888"=20 wrote: In the course of reading this same book "L'Art..." I came across a=20 chapter which made me sit on the edge of my chair. It is a chapter=20 called =AB le lullisme =BB and it is almost a perfect description of=20 Sant Mat. This man named Raymond Lulle or Ramon Lull was a=20 philosopher who lived in the 12th century and made his mark there.=20 He died in 1316. But before he died he left a great many books and=20 influenced by St. Thomas and Albert the Great. It says that about=20 1272 he was illuminated on Mount Randa one of the iles of Majorque.=20 During this experience he gave the names of God : goodness,=20 infinity, eternity and that he penetrated the entire universe. Here was his genious he revived this art of the memory for the=20 middle ages by stating that the art of memory could be based on=20 these attributes, a little later he gave his first version =AB sur=20 L'Art =BB The Art of Lulle is an art of the memory. He used the divine=20 attributes to base them on and according to a structure of the=20 trinity and believed that this Art was used by the 3 faculties of=20 the soul. Many of the Dominicans, grand order of the brothers, and=20 the Franciscan order became interested in his work, and thus in=20 history they are associated with lullisme. Lullism not to be confused with the classic Art but has an essential=20 difference according to the author. It comes from a philosophical=20 tradition such as =AB platonisme augustinien =BB or Augustian Platonism.=20 These are basically the attributes of God. Here it gets interesting : Lulle's objective was essentially=20 missionary. He believed that he had to persuade the Jews and the=20 Muslims to practice this Art with him and to convert them both to=20 Christianity. Now, we have the tie between these Midieval men of the=20 church and Sant Mat. The author says that Lulle and St. Augustine=20 used the names of God to create meditations upon them. However,=20 these names are essentially from Judaism and from the mystical=20 Judaism called Cabbalism. I have to look into this because there are=20 two types of Kabbalism one being christian and one Jewish, unless=20 they are saying that the Christian version of Kabbalism was created=20 by Lulle. The author continues to say that the Spanish Jews who were=20 contemporaries of Lulle meditated, with a great depth=20 particularly, =AB sur les Noms de Dieu =BB on the names of God. One of=20 these texts being Le Zohar, which was written in Spain at the time=20 of Lulle. I will translate the next sentence as well =AB the sacred alphabet of=20 the Hebrews is supposedly, mystically speaking, contain all the=20 Names of God. One form of cabalistic meditation known in Spain had=20 a particular development ; it was about meditation on the letters of=20 the Hebrew alphabet and of their incessant combination in order to=20 form the Names of God. =BB page 192 Here's where it gets very interesting the author says that Islam=20 attached a great importance to the meditation on the names of God,=20 in particular islamic myticism known as =AB soufisme =BB He continues :=20 that meditaiton had been particularly detailed by the mystical sufi=20 known as Mohidin, who was supposed to be influenced by Lulle. The=20 number of names which Lulle gives are 9 in toto. And these concepts=20 are then translated into the letters of the alphabet : B, C, D, E,=20 F, G, H, I and K.=20 This is important because Lulle later used these letters, because=20 every astrologer knows that letters can be changed to numbers and=20 numbers can then be given astrological significance (this is=20 something I do to shortcut) but this author says that Lulle had a=20 sort of astrological medicine. Thus bringing religion and science in=20 close quarters.=20=20 Comment : As I noted this book is available in English, but this is=20 the first time I have ever seen it, therefore have only the French=20 copy. But if you are interested in further study, apparently Lulle=20 wrote a great deal. However, being able to find these books or=20 translations of them might be difficult. It is also Neo-Platonism=20 and this is something which Ken Wilber has made extremely popular in=20 his psychology. And it is interesting to note that true to Platonism=20 Ken Wilber uses all these levels and constructs on which he hangs=20 his psychology. It is also what it would take to understand it. Thus I have given you the history of the modern basis of the social=20 sciences and the hard sciences were later to come out of them.=20 What's more it would be interesting to study and really know Sufism.=20 I have also maintained that Sufism was the basis of Sant Mat as well=20 as the teachings of Theosophy and Blavatsky herself. --- End forwarded message --- From Nisk98114@aol.com Sat Jan 03 07:31:27 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61264 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 15:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 15:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 15:31:27 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id r.16.39dea9ff (4012) for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:31:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <16.39dea9ff.2d283a43@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:31:15 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 205.188.157.35 From: Nisk98114@aol.com Subject: RE: Question... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: OCCULT TALES on line. As far as I know some of the stories are, but possibly not all of them. Do you want some I have "on line?" Or any specific ones? Best wishes, Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Nisk98114@aol.com [mailto:Nisk98114@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:38 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Question... Is "Occult Tales" available on-line? -------------------------------------------------- I'd like the one's you have on-line. Thank's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alden_parent@yahoo.com Sat Jan 03 08:19:18 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: alden_parent@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60854 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 16:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 16:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 16:19:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2004 16:19:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:19:15 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4952 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.92 From: "alden_parent" X-Originating-IP: 12.38.108.51 Subject: Re: Theos-World Four Aspects of the Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=166797057 X-Yahoo-Profile: alden_parent --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Eldon B Tucker" wrote: > One other comment on this note based on an article in DISCOVER MAGAZINE. ******************** Christina & Eldon, Thank you both for your input and references. I knew of a Vortex concept but not to this extent.It was more on how planets rotate within a vortex in space. A Vortex Theorem such as this would be in line with a " Riemann Surface" concept of a vortex. That is; it would spiral and have a line of symmetry as represented by the non-trivial zeros in the Riemann zeta function; and also as seen in the distribution of "prime" numbers in the Prime Number Pattern. I would like to see the math proof on this theory! On the matter of " dark matter" also called ( funny energy ). I was under the impression that they did not know what it was comprised of; hence named "funny energy". Of course I may not be up to date on these matters. Again thanks, Alden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > It doesn't mention dark and light energy, just dark energy and three kinds > of matter (non-luminous ordinary, luminous ordinary, and dark). There's one > type of energy and three of matter, with energy accounting for about three > times as much of what exists (.73 is about 3 times .27). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@t...] > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 3:30 PM > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Theos-World Four Aspects of the Universe > > Alden: > > There's an article in the December 2003 DISCOVER MAGAZINE that talks about > your question. On page 45, it says, "Here are the results of the latest > cosmic census detailing what is really out there." I believe that "dark > matter" and "anti-matter" would be the same thing, like in ordinary matter > there's an electron (with a negative charge) that corresponds to a positron > (with a positive charge) in dark matter. > > With both ordinary and dark matter and ordinary and dark energy, we'd have > four ingredients to things. From the DISCOVER article, we read: > > 73 PERCENT DARK ENERGY > > "Measurement of the expansion of the universe show it is accelerating, > apparently driven by a mysterious repulsion. ... the repulsion could be > caused by energy latent in space itself." > > 23 PERCERT DARK MATTER > > "Observations of the way galaxies move and rotate show that they seem to be > surrounded by a vast amount of unseen matter. ... most of this matter cannot > consist of ordinary atoms." > > 4 PERCENT NONLUMINOUS ORDINARY MATTER > > "The Big Bang models, along with the studies of primordial microwaves, > predict how many conventional atoms should be out there -- and the result is > much more that can be accounted for by stars alone. Some dark objects have > been directly observed or indirectly detected by the way they deflect light > or interact gravitationally with visible stars." > > 0.4 PERCENT LUMINOUS MATTER > > "These are the stars, nebulas, and galaxies we see ... The density of > luminous matter is so small that it falls within the rounding errors of dark > matter and dark energy, which is why the numbers add up to more that 100 > percent." > > -- Eldon > > -----Original Message----- > From: alden_parent [mailto:alden_parent@y...] > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 12:24 PM > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Theos-World Three Elements of Universe > > > Hello everyone, > > We know that "matter" and "anti-matter" > along with a third "dark matter" (funny energy) > are in the universes. I would say that the dark > matter perhaps had an effect on the other two not > cancelling each other out after the " Big Bang". > I would also think that dark matter is perhaps > also the origin of the spiritual/metaphysical > in those universes, assuming it was already in > existence: Or is it too as a result of the "Bang"? > > What do you think anyone? (Leon) ? Scientist! > > Alden > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From alden_parent@yahoo.com Sat Jan 03 08:48:21 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: alden_parent@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9919 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2004 16:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2004 16:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2004 16:48:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2004 16:48:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:48:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5899 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "alden_parent" X-Originating-IP: 12.38.108.51 Subject: Re: Theos-World Four Aspects of the Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=166797057 X-Yahoo-Profile: alden_parent --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "alden_parent" wrote: > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Eldon B Tucker" > wrote: > > One other comment on this note based on an article in DISCOVER > MAGAZINE. > ******************** > > Christina & Eldon, > > Thank you both for your input and references. > I knew of a Vortex concept but not to this extent.It > was more on how planets rotate within a vortex in > space. A Vortex Theorem such as this would be in line > with a " Riemann Surface" concept of a vortex. That is; > it would spiral and have a line of symmetry as represented > by the non-trivial zeros in the Riemann zeta function; and > also as seen in the distribution of "prime" numbers in > the Prime Number Pattern. I would like to see the math > proof on this theory! > > On the matter of " dark matter" also called > ( funny energy ). I was under the impression that they > did not know what