From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Oct 01 03:00:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65924 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 10:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2003 10:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 10:00:51 -0000 Received: from pool0110.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.226.110] helo=DALLAS) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A4dmi-0006KS-00; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:00:41 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World DNA, -THIRD-? and genetic-engineering... Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:00:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c38802$da487680$6ee2b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000c01c38745$df19a980$8c2fa150@opasia.dk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Wednesday, October 01, 2003 Dear Friend: Lawmaking as I understand it in the ordinary way, relates to fairness, and brotherhood in application.=20=20 >From the Theosophical point of view this includes the immortal Soul and its successive reincarnations and KARMA as the UNIVERSAL LAW that operates equally for everyone regardless of religion or politics, race, or location on earth. The conditions you relate (DNA ownership, Islam, state-hood, a common currency, common laws, etc...) already is in operation in the spiritual sense. This is an attempt to create a similar situation on the physical plane and it has its faults as well as successes.=20 It makes a great deal of difference to the extremist, or bigot whether in politics or religion. For the average citizen, he really does not care who governs, so long as no unfair practices are arbitrarily imposed on him or her.=20 Spiritual morality and ethics are superior to and the root of physical ethics and morality. In every person there resides the ONE SELF. It is this spiritual entity that is sensitive to any and all injustices. It is this innate sense of justice that allows a citizen of any country to enter another, and if well intentioned, permits them to travel unrestricted with amity and goodwill to the nations he visits. Whenever there is any resistance to impersonal and universal laws one may be sure there lurks injustice, immorality and evil. These run contrary to the laws of growth and brotherhood. As to "Islam" and its presumed dangers. Have those who make this outcry studied the Koran? No one ought to voice prejudice. Without some familiarity with the subject, no opinions ought to be offered. Laziness and ignorance are thus taken advantage of by those who find advantage in isolation. Truth demands study and work. Then fairness emerges. This fairness is based on Universal Brotherhood. And that is Theosophy. -----Original Message----- From: Morten Nymann Olesen [mailto:global-theosophy@adslhome.dk]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:28 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World DNA, -THIRD-? and genetic-engeneering... Hi all of you, Time is running. I have a few question. Maybe some of you will help me and others who are interested in this issue. The reason for asking the following - should be viewed as an offshoot of the now ongoing debate in Denmark on=20 A--- Whether the mere level of INTELLIGENCE should be a reason for lawmaking encouraging certain groups within the population to multiply (giving them money or something else) and perhaps encouraging other groups to keep their birthrate or multiplication down (by tax-release or other measures). This debate was create by a danish researcher and professor. (Bangladesh have tried the idea in lawmaking - but had to abandon it because of pressure from the population.) B--- The proposal by some of the law makers to create registration of DNA for - all - the population. The last issue has the recent days made a great number of - concerned citizens phone the particular Governmental - Institute, which has a stock of bloodsamples from various citizens available dating from at least the year 1981 and forward. It is these bloodsamples, which the government eventually will use in crime research - and maybe research on terrorism. The danish citizens have by law the right to claim these bloodsamples returned to themselves if they so choose.=20 This happens - few months before the Danish population has to vote for EU-membership and eventually the new constitution - which is by some said to almost turn EU into a State similar to the - present - German one. Atr least there is a pattern. There will be a kind of presidential post created in the new EU, and the foreign-minister of EU will now - become a kind of real States foreignminister of EU. All countries will have the same coin and national bank - as some countries already have. One end of the political corner cries "Islam is dangerous, don't let to many foreigners into your countries." The other end says let them come. Some sort of says let them come - we have a law which are ready to treat them as they "deserve" - and the like. MO 1. What have Blavatsky primarily and also other theosophists written about the issue - the THIRD rootrace and the creation of the sexes ? (I think Dallas, Caldwell or someone else might have access to an short clear overview on this issue.) DTB >>>> Read the SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I pp. 415-6, 150fn, II 2-3, 84, 119, 132-5, 165-7, 173-4, 182, 191-2, 197-8,217, 275, 411, 415 >>>> 3rd Root Race: S D II 132, 135, 147, 177, 248, 715fn MO 2. How can this be related to present day science ? DTB >>>> It cannot because the original process was one directed by Karma. Our present work with DNA is only physiological and the original was ASTRAL under the guidance of Karma and the energy centers resident in PRANA / JIVA.=20=20 MO 3. Where are we going in the near future ? DTB >>>> Probably in the wrong direction, as the physiology does not guide or antecede the astral and the pranic currents and energies. If you inquire into the experimental efforts you will find out that very few attempts are successful. Most are failures. MO 4. Will we witness tampering with DNA registration and missue by Intelligence Agencies and other groups and agencies around the globe ?=20 And DNA- terrorism ? And where will that lead us ? DTB >>>> Into confusion, for the above reasons -- a lack of more fundamental knowledge about the source of material forms. MO 5. Will the ancient tampering with DNA revoke a karmic circle, where various kinds of "DNA-monsters" attracted because of fear or because greed for power will walk in the streets ? DTB >>>> Probably the Atlantean "sorcerers" (some of us in that Race, long ago) who misused natures' laws for personal benefit (sorcery) made far serious blunders as a knowledge of the astral and the pranic forces was available then. These days our Science has rejected those more subtle forces and knows little if anything about them. For instance, can our science tell us why anything, say a crystal, or an egg has a definite constitution and conformity to laws? They make surmises, but those are mainly opinions and speculations, theories and hypotheses. They are not a definite knowledge of the secret magnetic and electrical Laws (in the astral form) that underlie every physical form without exception. They do not realize that all physical matter is a condensation of the astral. Another example: How is the healing of a wound explained? How do medicines actually work well on some persons and not well on others. How many physicians really know the subtle psychic nature of their patients, and their astral and pranic condition? MO 6. How much tampering with DNA happened during the THIRD rootrace and also the FOURTH rootrace ? DTB >>>> NO tampering. Nature guided the changes. Mankind and nature will bring in the future an end to the sexual differences in the forms we use, says the SECRET DOCTRINE . MO 7. How will Theosophy relate to this issue of DNA registration in the future ? What is the policy of the different theosophical or related groups ? DTB >>>> Common sense -- it does not really matter. MO (The Jews was strangely enough called an "artificial race" by Blavatsky (SD vol. II, p. 571), and said to be only about 8.000 years old.) DTB >>>> HPB in SECRET DOCTRINE says the Jews are a part of the Semitic group. It is an Aryan race born in India S D I 313fn; II 200, 471fn. [see S D INDEX for more details] MO I think, that these questions are important to ask in the present age, where DNA-cloning, Genetic-engineering, Nano-Techology, Bio-technology, Internet-interactivity, Cyborgs, Wireless-communication (by satellite - Europes latest trick) and the like --- are coming high on the political and spiritual agendas ! And please don't reject this question: What is your own position on these issues? DTB >>>> SEE THE ABOVE. from M. Sufilight with peace and love... Best wishes, Dallas =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Oct 01 03:12:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36293 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 10:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2003 10:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.50) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 10:12:01 -0000 Received: from pool0110.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.226.110] helo=DALLAS) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A4dxf-0007HT-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:12:00 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World DNA, -THIRD-? and genetic-engeneering... Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:11:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c38804$709e5fe0$6ee2b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000c01c38745$df19a980$8c2fa150@opasia.dk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 -----Original Message----- From: Morten Nymann Olesen [mailto:global-theosophy@adslhome.dk]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:28 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World DNA, -THIRD-? and genetic-engeneering... Hi all of you, Time is running. I have a few question. Maybe some of you will help me and others who are interested in this issue. The reason for asking the following - should be viewed as an offshoot of the now ongoing debate in Denmark on=20 A--- Whether the mere level of INTELLIGENCE should be a reason for lawmaking encouraging certain groups within the population to multiply (giving them money or something else) and perhaps encouraging other groups to keep their birthrate or multiplication down (by tax-release or other measures). This debate was create by a danish researcher and professor. (Bangladesh have tried the idea in lawmaking - but had to abandon it because of pressure from the population.) B--- The proposal by some of the law makers to create registration of DNA for - all - the population. The last issue has the recent days made a great number of - concerned citizens phone the particular Governmental - Institute, which has a stock of bloodsamples from various citizens available dating from at least the year 1981 and forward. It is these bloodsamples, which the government eventually will use in crime research - and maybe research on terrorism. The danish citizens have by law the right to claim these bloodsamples returned to themselves if they so choose.=20 This happens - few months before the Danish population has to vote for EU-membership and eventually the new constitution - which is by some said to almost turn EU into a State similar to the - present - German one. Atr least there is a pattern. There will be a kind of presidential post created in the new EU, and the foreign-minister of EU will now - become a kind of real States foreignminister of EU. All countries will have the same coin and national bank - as some countries already have. One end of the political corner cries "Islam is dangerous, don't let to many foreigners into your countries." The other end says let them come. Some sort of says let them come - we have a law which are ready to treat them as they "deserve" - and the like. 1. What have Blavatsky primarily and also other theosophists written about the issue - the THIRD rootrace and the creation of the sexes ? (I think Dallas, Caldwell or someone else might have access to an short clear overview on this issue.) 2. How can this be related to present day science ? 3. Where are we going in the near future ? 4. Will we witness tampering with DNA registration and missue by Intelligence Agencies and other groups and agencies around the globe ?=20 And DNA- terrorism ? And where will that lead us ? 5. Will the ancient tampering with DNA revoke a karmic circle, where various kinds of "DNA-monsters" attracted because of fear or because greed for power will walk in the streets ? 6. How much tampering with DNA happened during the THIRD rootrace and also the FOURTH rootrace ? 7. How will Theosophy relate to this issue of DNA registration in the future ? What is the policy of the different theosophical or related groups ? (The Jews was strangely enough called an "artificial race" by Blavatsky (SD vol. II, p. 571), and said to be only about 8.000 years old.) I think, that these questions are important to ask in the present age, where DNA-cloning, Genetic-engineering, Nano-Techology, Bio-technology, Internet-interactivity, Cyborgs, Wireless-communication (by satellite - Europes latest trick) and the like --- are coming high on the political and spiritual agendas ! And please don't reject this question:=20 What is your own position on these issues? I just read this one about the notorius trickster Mula Nasrudin. Have fun. Q: Ur name please?=20 Mula: Nasreddin=20 Q: Sex?=20 Mula: 3 times a week=20 Q: I mean Male or female?=20 Mula: Does not matter. Sometimes even camel! from M. Sufilight with peace and love... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Wed Oct 01 19:11:28 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94338 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 02:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 02:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r01.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.97) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 02:11:27 -0000 Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.9.19a644a6 (14374) for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9.19a644a6.2cace34c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT Subject: What is this? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail from theo-talk, or is this a spam? Marie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Wed Oct 01 19:13:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96751 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 02:13:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 02:13:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 02:13:03 -0000 Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.38.3d698d50 (14374) for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38.3d698d50.2cace3aa@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:12:58 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World dEvOtUs To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is this? What does it mean? Why am I getting mail from this person? I did not expect to get messages from individuals but from theos-talk. Could someone explain your procedures? Thanks. Marie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Wed Oct 01 19:26:00 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43497 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 02:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 02:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 02:25:59 -0000 Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.147.1a0bbc01 (14374) for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:25:50 EDT Subject: What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is this person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how your group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am assuming that this is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. Marie message starts here [upholding says in matters two fold collision confided frontation imprint bodies like masses such monovalence misconception about how it really is here there open outer coils complete corrosion rain drops surface maps solid solidity in structure happenings pretend not such occasions light too an fro beyond finite matters complete inclusion confusion mixed an pleasant moral diamond tipped feathers safely flowing pollen in the wind hyper axioms flooded insects devouring non ideal substance hive correspondence gold dipped life blood an perfect structure to boot seven senses with eight psychologies nature child seed innocent opening doors dimension all avatars what as when told self calling many birds for many eons still not satisfied until it comes branching out water air purifier breathing each suns until the last drop time folding matter from ever corner this way getting out by now seeing sure as it comes surrounding it once again sea brings self in approach connecting dots down the line never reaching a final destination see through the bubbles or be spheres in conception oraganon http://www.gnomon.org/oraganon/] end of message received Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Wed Oct 01 22:14:08 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27443 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 05:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 05:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.46) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 05:14:07 -0000 Received: from nycmny1-ar7-4-3-084-073.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.3.84.73] helo=sprynet.com) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A4vmw-00030j-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 22:14:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 01:14:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? References: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is this > person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how your > group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am assuming that this > is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to start worshiping him and sending him all their money. From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Oct 02 02:57:28 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7815 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 09:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 09:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 09:57:26 -0000 Received: from pool0198.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.216.198] helo=DALLAS) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A50D1-0000QR-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:57:20 -0700 To: "AA-BN--Study" Subject: RE: [Blavatsky_Study] H P B -- men of true Science Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:57:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c388cb$8d39cd20$c6d8b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Oct 2 2003 Dear Munise: I think that HPB used the phrase: "men of true Science" to indicate individuals who were students, scholars, and researchers who looked for truth and accuracy without any prejudice, and with no intentions of hiding anything that they found because it ran contrary to any current hypothesis or theory.=20 By contrast: In the world of modern Science at our Academies, we find that students, to secure degrees have to conform to current and accepted hypothesis or theories, even if these include the prejudices of the ruling Professors and Academicians. An example is the current evolutionary theory, based on relicts and fossils which are scarce and also inconclusive when carefully analysed. HPB did this in the 2nd Vol. the SECRET DOCTRINE and it needs careful studying. If materialism alone is chosen as the basis for evolution, the CAUSE for the first and most primitive forms, and their subsequent changes (as displayed in scenarios such as the descent of the Horse from the Eohippus, or of MAN from what is considered to be skeletal remains of a primitive dwarfish biped) is not fully outlined. It is THEORIZED. It is a HYPOTHESIS. And both theories and hypotheses are subject to revision if the evidence is found strong enough to upset them. It is not set in stone. But it takes long and careful analysis to demonstrate this. Archeology and paleontology are at odds with geology in many cases on the subject of accurately dating the past. I believe THIS IS GRADUALLY BEING ACCUMULATED. Let me share with you some receipt correspondence on this: ------------------------------------------------ COPY=20=20 [7 - 3 2003] I sent the following to the publisher's of "FORBIDDEN=20 ARCHEOLOGY," Govardhan Hill Publishing.=20=20=20 re "FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY" To whom it may concern: The subject of ancient human giants came up on a=20 discussion group, and one of the correspondents wrote that=20 his father visited the Havasupai branch of the Grand Canyon=20 in Arizona in the 1920's. Apparently petrified imprints of=20 giant humans were found there. Photographs and details were taken and preserved in San=20 Francisco and in Washington in the archives of the Dept. of=20 Geology. The Professor of Geology and anthropology at the=20 University of California San Francisco Dr Hubbard and=20 another Dr. Osborn did the discovering, investigating and=20 measuring.=20=20 The discovery was interrupted and then terminated by a large landslide in the canyon that obliterated the area. It was massive and too large to try to remove.=20=20 But the reports and photographs exist in the archives of both institutions. Apparently the man-figure was about 27 feet long, the woman-figure about 24, and the child was about 18 feet long. The figures were exposed on a ledge near the bottom of the canyon and were partly buried inside the material of the=20 steep wall of the canyon above. The writer claimed that his father had pictures of these and that he saw those when he was about 18. Also, another writer on that discussion list wrote that during a visit to the Joshua Tree National Monument in California,=20=20 in the flats area maybe less than a 1000 feet off the paved=20 road he found large footprints in the exposed sandstone that=20 was bare to the air in patches. He measured the length=20 between the footprints as double what he could manage with=20 the most exaggerated step he could take without falling. Also, the following paragraph is from Vol. 4 (1925)=20 "Official Automobile Blue Book's Standard Touring=20 Guide of America": "Among the many points of=20 interest within a few miles of the city is the Nevada=20 state prison. Not only as a model penal institution is=20 this place interesting but because it is the site of some=20 of the most wonderful discoveries of prehistoric life.=20=20 Within the prison walls are found footprints in the=20 solid stone of the giant who, when the present site was=20 a lake, made his way along the shore, sinking deep into=20 the mud and leaving imprints...." I was advised by email from a representative of the National=20 Geographic that the society generally does not initiate=20 investigations, but that their Committee for research and=20 exploration considers proposals from scientists who do; and=20 that if they feel that the proposal has merit, the Committee=20 then offers a grant to help the scientists with their research=20 work. Apparently they often publish articles on the research=20 work that they support. I was told that they would be happy=20 to consider a proposal for an investigation into this, and that=20 information on their program of research support is available=20 on their website at: =20 http://www.nationalgeographic.com/research/grant/rg1.html. I personally am in no position to do any investigating, but=20 would like to see somebody verify some or all of the various=20 leads, and then (possibly?) publish an article about that=20 topic in, for example, the National Geographic, if possible. I=20 am wondering if somebody reading this might have some=20 interest along those lines, even as much as to check out and=20 report on: <<1 at the archives of the Geology Dept. University of=20 California in San Francisco and 2 at the archives of the Dept. of Geology in Washington=20 D C [also LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ]>> as per my=20 informant. I wonder if anybody who is living or visiting in those areas=20=20 might have some interest in looking up whatever records and=20 photos that might still remain in those archives? Of course one might presume (?) that there may be a number=20 of mainstream anthropologists and archeologists who might=20 not take kindly to having their current belief-structures and=20 theories investigated and questioned, so I suspect that any=20 investigation along those lines would necessarily have to be=20 rather clandestine, tactful and sophisticated for it to get=20 anywhere at all, if during those investigations there is a need=20 for any helpful cooperation from those who might be=20 somewhat constrained by a mainstream, or average, world=20 view (among other things, possibly) with respect to=20 archeology/anthropology and related sciences. Thank you for any help in bringing these reports to the light=20 of day. Sincerely, =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Munise Yararcan [mailto:munismunis@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:44 AM To:=20 Subject: H P B -- men of true Science Dear Dallas, All This is from S.D. Vol 1 pg 514 "By the "men of true Science" we mean those who care too much for truth and=20 too little for their personal vanity to dogmatise on anything, as the=20 majority do." If life is a science then on which basis "majority" is defined? With any=20 number of people having different ideas , different in number , or by=20 considering world population? It must be one of characteristics of many groups having majority to care for their personal vanity to dogmatize on anything. With few exceptions of course. By the way how we are going to find similar "care too much" and "care too=20 little" concepts all over the world? I think it worths trying to find so. Best regards Munise > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.=20 http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Blavatsky_Study-unsubscribe@egroups.com =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From global-theosophy@adslhome.dk Thu Oct 02 03:29:36 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@adslhome.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70238 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 10:29:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 10:29:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pfepb.post.tele.dk) (193.162.153.3) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 10:29:35 -0000 Received: from khidr (0x50a44ff8.arcnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.164.79.248]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C95995EE2C2 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:29:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007701c388cf$f8f63a40$f84fa450@opasia.dk> To: References: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:28:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106996622 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hi all of you, No Bart I don't think so. At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. (smile...) from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:14 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is this > > person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how your > > group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am assuming that this > > is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. > > He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to > start worshiping him and sending him all their money. > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Oct 02 05:21:01 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 463 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 12:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 12:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 12:21:00 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.9.19acf382 (25508) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9.19acf382.2cad7224@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:20:52 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 10/2/03 12:15:04 AM Central Daylight Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: << He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to start worshiping him and sending him all their money. >> I wish him luck. I've tried that for years with no success, dammit! Chuck From oraganon@gnomon.org Thu Oct 02 05:41:27 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: oraganon@gnomon.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32528 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 12:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 12:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.powweb.com) (63.251.216.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 12:41:26 -0000 Received: from [67.34.235.251] (adsl-34-235-251.bct.bellsouth.net [67.34.235.251]) by mail01.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E06367E2 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: oraganon@mail.gnomon.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> References: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:40:56 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: oraganon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150875912 X-Yahoo-Profile: oraganon1 MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is this > person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how your > group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am >assuming that this > is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to start worshiping him and sending him all their money. Ha , I dont want your money man just you women ! Smiles From oraganon@gnomon.org Thu Oct 02 06:31:05 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: oraganon@gnomon.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40247 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 13:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 13:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.powweb.com) (63.251.216.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 13:31:04 -0000 Received: from [67.34.235.251] (adsl-34-235-251.bct.bellsouth.net [67.34.235.251]) by mail01.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7688D36747 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: oraganon@mail.gnomon.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007701c388cf$f8f63a40$f84fa450@opasia.dk> References: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> <007701c388cf$f8f63a40$f84fa450@opasia.dk> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:30:59 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: oraganon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150875912 X-Yahoo-Profile: oraganon1 I have consider the ideas of Senzar . Question : Is a senzar have any reference to the spoken language of the babble crew, only being able to understand one another? I understand that a senzar has been reference to the oriental as well as the indian for the most high expression/translation of sacred occult or mystic text. Might any of you know where to find an unaltered translation of senzar? It mentioned only briefly in the SD, are their any other references?? respectfully -Og Hi all of you, No Bart I don't think so. At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. (smile...) from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:14 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is this > > person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how your > > group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am assuming that this > > is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. > > He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to > start worshiping him and sending him all their money. > From burgem@essex1.com Thu Oct 02 08:24:16 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: burgem@essex1.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14845 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 15:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 15:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.essex1.com) (208.1.86.67) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 15:24:12 -0000 Received: from mindy ([63.164.209.102]) by smtp.essex1.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h92FOuop024061 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:25:06 -0500 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:23:56 -0500 Message-ID: <017201c388f9$36496600$91547241@mindy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Mindy" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=382579 X-Yahoo-Profile: mindy61081 Greetings Og, I'd be delighted to learn more regarding Senzar. A few mentions of it can be found at http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/sanskrit.htm and http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/dzyan.htm Possibly Morten has further information?? Warm regards, Mindy -----Original Message----- From: oraganon [mailto:oraganon@gnomon.org] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:31 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? I have consider the ideas of Senzar . Question : Is a senzar have any reference to the spoken language of the babble crew, only being able to understand one another? I understand that a senzar has been reference to the oriental as well as the indian for the most high expression/translation of sacred occult or mystic text. Might any of you know where to find an unaltered translation of senzar? It mentioned only briefly in the SD, are their any other references?? respectfully -Og Hi all of you, No Bart I don't think so. At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. (smile...) from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... From Nisk98114@aol.com Thu Oct 02 10:49:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44216 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 17:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 17:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 17:49:41 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.1e6.10c4a993 (3858) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e6.10c4a993.2cadbf30@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:49:36 EDT Subject: Re:What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 From: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message: 1 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: What is this? I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail from theo-talk, or is this a spam? Marie ////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon is a regular contributor to the Theos world list.You may read it or discard it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Thu Oct 02 10:55:30 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18966 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 17:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 17:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 17:55:29 -0000 Received: from nycmny1-ar7-4-3-084-073.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.3.84.73] helo=sprynet.com) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A57fk-0000Vn-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3F7C668C.50804@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:55:24 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? References: <9.19acf382.2cad7224@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <9.19acf382.2cad7224@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/2/03 12:15:04 AM Central Daylight Time, > bartl@sprynet.com writes: > > << He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to > start worshiping him and sending him all their money. > >> > > I wish him luck. I've tried that for years with no success, dammit! Hey, you have women who want you to tie them up and beat them. Count your blessings. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Oct 02 11:25:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90565 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 18:25:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 18:25:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41006.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 18:25:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20031002182521.73386.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.21.147] by web41006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:25:21 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was Mrs. Katherine Tingley Channelling the Deceased Mme. Blavatsky? To: ".DanielHCaldwell" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell A few weeks ago, a correspondent from South America wrote me pointing to the following article and asking me a relevant question. The article is: "Mrs. Katherine Tingley Channels the Recently Deceased William Q. Judge" http://members.tripod.com/davidgreen_2/channels.htm The question and point can be summarized as follows: One can probably safely assume that when Mrs. Tingley channelled the recently dead Judge in March 1896 that this was not the FIRST occasion that Mrs. Tingley had channelled. We know that Mr. Judge in 1895 believed he was receiving messages from the deceased Madame Blavatsky. See: "William Q Judge's 1895 Letter on Messages from the dead Madame Blavatsky" http://members.tripod.com/davidgreen_2/judge1.htm "W.Q. Judge's Letter to Mrs. Katherine Tingley on Communications from the Discarnate Madame Blavatsky" http://members.tripod.com/davidgreen_2/tingley.htm My correspondent wants to know if there is any evidence/document to show that Mrs. Tingley was the person actually channeling the messages from the dead HPB to W.Q. Judge. I am posting this hoping that others may know more about this and can provide either info and/or documents to answer this question. Thanks in advance for everyone's help. Daniel From listmail@theosophist.org Thu Oct 02 11:45:05 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: listmail@theosophist.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17061 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 18:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 18:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 18:45:04 -0000 Received: from [167.167.187.206] (helo=scribe) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A58T2-00062V-Hs for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:46:24 -0400 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:44:54 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c38915$4882b530$cebba7a7@scribe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <017201c388f9$36496600$91547241@mindy> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophist.org From: "Eldon B Tucker" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=141100620 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Mindy: There was a reprint of a booklet on Senzar by John Algeo that appeared in a back issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD: http://www.theos-world.com/archives/html/tw199701.html#ARTICLE0005 http://www.theos-world.com/archives/html/tw199702.html#ARTICLE0006 -- Eldon Tucker -----Original Message----- From: Mindy [mailto:burgem@essex1.com] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:24 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? Greetings Og, I'd be delighted to learn more regarding Senzar. A few mentions of it can be found at http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/sanskrit.htm and http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/dzyan.htm Possibly Morten has further information?? Warm regards, Mindy -----Original Message----- From: oraganon [mailto:oraganon@gnomon.org] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:31 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? I have consider the ideas of Senzar . Question : Is a senzar have any reference to the spoken language of the babble crew, only being able to understand one another? I understand that a senzar has been reference to the oriental as well as the indian for the most high expression/translation of sacred occult or mystic text. Might any of you know where to find an unaltered translation of senzar? It mentioned only briefly in the SD, are their any other references?? respectfully -Og Hi all of you, No Bart I don't think so. At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. (smile...) from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From vipassana_infonet@yahoo.co.in Thu Oct 02 11:45:35 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: vipassana_infonet@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53437 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 18:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 18:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.108) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 18:45:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2003 18:45:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:45:32 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: looking for relationship Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 645 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "vipassana_infonet" X-Originating-IP: 202.144.74.163 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=160402417 X-Yahoo-Profile: vipassana_infonet Dear friend, I am an indian looking for a female for a lifetime committed=20 relationship. my interests include: Vipassana ( sn goenka ) Pali =96 tipitaka related works=20 Vipassana related research studies=20 =20 comparative studies=20 ( vipassana - buddha - krishnamurti ,=20 vipassana - buddha - vivekananda , vipassana - bible etc etc ) Vipassana and healing / health=20 History of Buddha and Buddha's teachings J.krishnamurti and his wonderful teachings. Classical homoeopathy ( 6th organon) ( particularly interested in mind symptoms ) Please email me at=20 < vipassana_infonet@yahoo.co.in > ( vipassana underscore infonet at yahoo.co.in ) From global-theosophy@adslhome.dk Thu Oct 02 12:51:50 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@adslhome.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45832 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 19:51:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 19:51:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pfepb.post.tele.dk) (193.162.153.3) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 19:51:49 -0000 Received: from khidr (0x50a44ff8.arcnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.164.79.248]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 476FC5EE319 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:51:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001c01c3891e$85200c00$f84fa450@opasia.dk> To: References: <147.1a0bbc01.2cace6ae@aol.com> <3F7BB428.1090308@sprynet.com> <007701c388cf$f8f63a40$f84fa450@opasia.dk> Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:51:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106996622 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hi Oraganon and all of you, One could try Sanskrit because it is a more material offshoot from Senzar. Chinese also. The Dravidian language should be mentioned. This language has similarities to ancient languages in the afghan and persian areas - this according to some "ordinary" scientists. We learn by different methods. Some learn by the reverse method. Some use too much time on emails, and some not. from M. Suilight with peace and love... ----- Original Message ----- From: "oraganon" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? > I have consider the ideas of Senzar . Question : Is a senzar have any > reference to the spoken language of the babble crew, only being able > to understand one another? I understand that a senzar has been > reference to the oriental as well as the indian for the most high > expression/translation of sacred occult or mystic text. Might any of > you know where to find an unaltered translation of senzar? It > mentioned only briefly in the SD, are their any other references?? > > respectfully > -Og > > > > > Hi all of you, > > No Bart I don't think so. > At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. > It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. > (smile...) > > from > M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bart Lidofsky" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:14 AM > Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? > > > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > > I received this message from oraganon@gnomon.org. What or better WHO is > this > > > person, and why are they sending me e-mails directly? I am not sure how > your > > > group works, so I would appreciate your filling me in. I am assuming > that this > > > is some sort of a spam unless I am told otherwise. Thank you. > > > > He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to > > start worshiping him and sending him all their money. > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From samblo@cs.com Thu Oct 02 16:02:18 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19076 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 23:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 23:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 23:02:17 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.157.257d0230 (3657) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <157.257d0230.2cae0874@cs.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:02:12 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 From: samblo@cs.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Mindy, Hi! He he, this is a fresh breeze of change caused by "Og" and his typical atypical submission form, perplexing as it is to all concerned. But I recall in earlier submissions he give notice regarding why he constructs his communications as he has done consistently. Perhaps he ought to restate that for the benefit of new subscribers. Now to stir the pot a little more I feel compelled to enter an equations to the "Senzar" element most likely unknown to the others on this list. Many years ago I became acquainted with a person who back in 1975-6 described himself as a "Traducere Illuminati" (Transducer of Light), He was a UFO experiencer who for the last 40 years has received regular "Communications" issued from the "Solar Presidium of the Solar Council and the Council of Saturn," these were usually Originated by "Kortan-President of the solar Presidium." Now the process that issued the Communication was technological requiring relays and orbital Craft near the Earth and the form of the Transmitted Communication was explicitly described as "Senzar." The unique thing about this person and the described above events were that I personally as well as others experienced direct perception of "Balls of Light" zipping past and around us, his personage completely enveloped from head to foot in a creamy bluish covering whilst within one could see the visage of another person the least resembling the actually physical body of the Traducere Illuminati who was the vehicle of the Transmission. Additionally overhead Ovoid emptynesses of space circled the assembly. In 30 years of my experiences this person is one of only two individuals who I has seen exhibit pheonomena such as the above out of many others who I meet personally that also made claim to be in communication with "Beings" who demonstrated abilities beyond the normal effects of people like us. He also is to my knowledge the only UFO experiencer who claimed or used the explicit term "Senzar." Here is a web link for his biography thumbnail : http://www.allthingsangels.com/blue_roseministries.htm John From mhart@idirect.ca Thu Oct 02 16:26:01 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42448 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 23:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 23:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gozer.look.ca) (207.136.80.10) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 23:26:00 -0000 Received: from on-osh-ap3-06-29.look.ca ([216.154.46.29] helo=idirect.ca) by gozer.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5CmG-0005gc-K7; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:22:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3F7CB722.6020706@idirect.ca> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:39:14 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dalval14@earthlink.net" , "theos-talk@yahoogroups.com" X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Subject: re giants, Dallas, info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.1 required=6.5 tests=USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,USER_IN_WHITELIST,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.0 (built Mon Jun 2 17:21:47 GMT 2003) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes From: Mauri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn Dallas, have you thought about passing on all that info to the publishers of FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY, who could pass it on to the author/s? Email for Govardhan Hill Publishing: ghi@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu Seems to me there might be enough material/possibilities in that info to make for a new book, maybe. Speculatively, Mauri From burgem@essex1.com Thu Oct 02 17:53:48 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: burgem@essex1.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46050 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 00:53:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 00:53:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.essex1.com) (208.1.86.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 00:53:48 -0000 Received: from mindy ([65.114.84.94]) by smtp.essex1.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h930sTop005733 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:54:40 -0500 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: <019201c38948$c7e30360$91547241@mindy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <157.257d0230.2cae0874@cs.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Mindy" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=382579 X-Yahoo-Profile: mindy61081 Hi all, Eldon, thanks for the links. I read John Algeo's writings with intense interest. Morten, thanks for the suggestions. Not sure I have time to learn Sanskrit though or if it'd be practical to make the time if it meant not fulfilling other duties. Sigh. John, hi, I'm new to the group and this was my first Og experience. It was a beautiful expression, not perplexing in any way. It would be interesting to hear the 'why' of the construction process though :) Your account of the light transducer is still rolling around among the brain cells trying to find a suitable home. I wasn't able to locate much biographical info on the link you shared. Part of what triggered my interest in Senzar was this quote: "The only ritual which is still regarded as of value to the human family as a whole - particularly to the advanced person - is the Masonic Ritual. The reason for this is that it is a pictorial representation of the process of Creation, of the relation between God and man, of the Path of Return and also of those great Initiations through the means of which the liberated initiate passes into the Council Chamber of the Most High." GWP p 228 This sounds Senzarian if I may create a new word :) Any thoughts? Blessings, Mindy -----Original Message----- From: samblo@cs.com [mailto:samblo@cs.com] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:02 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Mindy, Hi! He he, this is a fresh breeze of change caused by "Og" and his typical atypical submission form, perplexing as it is to all concerned. But I recall in earlier submissions he give notice regarding why he constructs his communications as he has done consistently. Perhaps he ought to restate that for the benefit of new subscribers. Now to stir the pot a little more I feel compelled to enter an equations to the "Senzar" element most likely unknown to the others on this list. Many years ago I became acquainted with a person who back in 1975-6 described himself as a "Traducere Illuminati" (Transducer of Light), He was a UFO experiencer who for the last 40 years has received regular "Communications" issued from the "Solar Presidium of the Solar Council and the Council of Saturn," these were usually Originated by "Kortan-President of the solar Presidium." Now the process that issued the Communication was technological requiring relays and orbital Craft near the Earth and the form of the Transmitted Communication was explicitly described as "Senzar." The unique thing about this person and the described above events were that I personally as well as others experienced direct perception of "Balls of Light" zipping past and around us, his personage completely enveloped from head to foot in a creamy bluish covering whilst within one could see the visage of another person the least resembling the actually physical body of the Traducere Illuminati who was the vehicle of the Transmission. Additionally overhead Ovoid emptynesses of space circled the assembly. In 30 years of my experiences this person is one of only two individuals who I has seen exhibit pheonomena such as the above out of many others who I meet personally that also made claim to be in communication with "Beings" who demonstrated abilities beyond the normal effects of people like us. He also is to my knowledge the only UFO experiencer who claimed or used the explicit term "Senzar." Here is a web link for his biography thumbnail : http://www.allthingsangels.com/blue_roseministries.htm John Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Oct 02 17:56:04 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92808 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 00:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 00:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 00:56:03 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.4a.22e14153 (16484) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a.22e14153.2cae2316@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:55:50 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 10/2/2003 12:57:03 PM Central Daylight Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: << Hey, you have women who want you to tie them up and beat them. Count your blessings. >> That is true. The gods have been kinder to me than I deserve. Chuck From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Oct 02 20:02:20 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69562 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.46) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 03:02:19 -0000 Received: from pool0604.cvx15-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.46.94] helo=DALLAS) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5GCg-00036y-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:02:02 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World re giants, Dallas, info Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:01:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c3895a$b51acbc0$5e2eb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F7CB722.6020706@idirect.ca> Importance: Normal X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Oct 2 2003 Thanks Mauri: Good idea, will do, Dal ==================================== -----Original Message----- From: Mauri [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:39 PM To: dalval14@earthlink.net; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World re giants, Dallas, info Dallas, have you thought about passing on all that info to the publishers of FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY, who could pass it on to the author/s? Email for Govardhan Hill Publishing: ghi@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu Seems to me there might be enough material/possibilities in that info to make for a new book, maybe. Speculatively, Mauri From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Thu Oct 02 20:43:33 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36223 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 03:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 03:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 03:43:32 -0000 Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.105.3705a095 (3996) for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <105.3705a095.2cae4a58@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:43:20 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/2003 12:52:30 PM Central Daylight Time, Nisk98114@aol.com writes: : 1 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: What is this? I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail from theo-talk, or is this a spam? Marie ////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon is a regular contributor to the Theos world list.You may read it or discard it. Well, I must say that my introduction to this group has been singular to say the least. I am getting more information, but am still puzzled? What was Oraganon's real message and intent? I guess I'm not good with subtleties. Thanks. Marie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From samblo@cs.com Thu Oct 02 21:03:17 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19399 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 04:03:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 04:03:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 04:03:16 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.166.264a39fc (25098) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <166.264a39fc.2cae4f00@cs.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:03:12 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 From: samblo@cs.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Mindy, Yes, as always we thank Eldon for the most interesting post by John Alegro. And Morten as a steady advocate of the Heritage from Parents given to us, the Children of the Now. I, in reading the Article about Senzar while enjoying much the fullness of the survey, modes, and types of means of expression seem inclined to consider that H.P.B spoke not only of the most distant past but also of her Now and think she could have relating the mode of Communication when she acting in her capacity as the Agent of the Mahatma's was recipient of her instructions directly through the utilization of Senzar itself. Having received such the quality of her Economy was refined enough to render fairly true the end product. What came first the chicken or the Hiranyagharbha? To my view Language in all the many forms and modes are externalization's and via's necessary to arrive at an acceptable communication that can be directly received by our Earthly corporeal consciousness. But the more fundamental question is "What is doing that? or "What is the originator of that action?", Consciousness and Beingness are ever senior so no matter what epoch, milieu, round, globe or world there is the presence that has desire to express from one to another, from father to son, from generation to generation. As I read John Alegro's article the Ocean of Beauty and infinite differentiation of expression in endless mode and variety manifesting in timelessness the Being and it's intrinsic unity was what floated to the surface in my mind. This to me is Noetic Genius ever intentioning, willing, guiding and informing like an infinite River of Gnosis. As to the Masonic Ritual, as I am not entered into the Lodge of Masonry I cannot reflect on that, but bow in respect. Radha has written in her works in quite a few places as to the Masons. And I believe she was issued High Degree and Recognition's. Somewhere I have a photo of her wearing her regalia of such. She also gave reference to the unrevealed hidden and most Archaic and Senior Lodges being composed of the Triad of India, England and Germany with India being immensely Ancient. As they say "Home is where the Lodge is" (my invention), it seems often childish to see the contestation that go on about the various Lodges following the imprint of "Possession," to me the Lodge of Light is First and Last with no reality in between. Another thought one might propose: "Find out where you really are". Gads! I'm babbling again! Anyway welcome Mindy. John From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Oct 03 05:04:31 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33217 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 12:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 12:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 12:04:30 -0000 Received: from pool0009.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.210.9] helo=DALLAS) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5OfG-0003BE-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:04:06 -0700 To: "AA-BN--Study" Subject: Master speaks to us all Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c389a6$6dcd3f90$09d2b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oct 3 2003 Dear Friends: The following seemed to me to be of great importance Practical idealism is explained. Best wishes, DTB ==================================== SOME WORDS ON DAILY LIFE ========================= (Written by a Master of Wisdom) IT is divine philosophy alone, the spiritual and psychic blending of man with nature, which, by revealing the fundamental truths that lie hidden under the objects of sense and perception, can promote a spirit of unity and harmony in spite of the great diversities of conflicting creeds. Theosophy, therefore, expects and demands from the Fellows of the Society a great mutual toleration and charity for each other's shortcomings, ungrudging mutual help in the search for truths in every department of nature-moral and physical. And this ethical standard must be unflinchingly applied to daily life. "Theosophy should not represent merely a collection of moral verities, a bundle of metaphysical ethics, epitomized in theoretical dissertations. Theosophy must be made practical; and it has, therefore, to be disencumbered of useless digressions, in the sense of desultory orations and fine talk. Let every Theosophist only do his duty, that which he can and ought to do, and very soon the sum of human misery, within and around the areas of every Branch of your Society, will be found visibly diminished. Forget SELF in working for others-and the task will become an easy and a light one for you. "Do not set your pride in the appreciation and acknowledgement of that work by others. Why should any member of the Theosophical Society, striving to become a Theosophist, put any value upon his neighbour's good or bad opinion of himself and his work, so long as he himself knows it to be useful and beneficent to other people? Human praise and enthusiasm are short-lived at best; the laugh of the scoffer and condemnation of the indifferent looker-on are sure to follow, and generally to out-weigh, the admiring praise of the friendly. Do not despise the opinion of the world, nor provoke it uselessly to unjust criticism. Remain rather as indifferent to the abuse as to the praise of those who can never know you as you really are, and who ought, therefore, to find you unmoved by either, and ever placing the approval or condemnation of your own Inner Self higher than that of the multitudes. "Those of you who would know yourselves in the spirit of truth, learn to live alone even amidst the great crowds which may some times surround you. Seek communion and intercourse only with the God within your own soul; heed only the praise or blame of that deity which can never be separated from your true self, as it is verily that God itself: called the HIGHER Consciousness. Put without delay your good intentions into practice, never leaving a single one to remain only an intention-expecting, meanwhile, neither reward nor even acknowledgement for the good you may have done. Reward and acknowledgement are in yourself and in separable from you, as it is your Inner Self alone which can appreciate them at their true degree and value. For each one of you contains within the precincts of his inner tabernacle the Supreme Court-prosecutor, defense, jury and judge-whose sentence is the only one without appeal; since none can know you better than you do yourself, when once you have learned to judge that Self by the never wavering light of the inner divinity-your higher Consciousness. Let, therefore, the masses, which can never know your true selves, condemn your outer selves according to their own false lights. "The majority of the public Areopagus is generally composed of self-appointed judges, who have never made a permanent deity of any idol save their own personalities-their lower selves; for those who try in their walk in life, to follow their inner light will never be found judging, far less condemning, those weaker than themselves. What does it matter, then, whether the former condemn or praise, whether they humble you or exalt you on a pinnacle? They will never comprehend you one way or the other. They may make an idol of you, so long as they imagine you a faithful mirror of themselves on the pedestal or altar which they have reared for you, and while you amuse or benefit them. You cannot expect to be anything for them but a temporary fetish, succeeding another fetish just overthrown, and followed in your turn by an other idol. Let, therefore, those who have created that idol destroy it whenever they like, casting it down with as little cause as they had for setting it up. Your Western Society can no more live with out its Khalif of an hour than it can worship one for any longer period; and whenever it breaks an idol and then besmears it with mud, it is not the model, but the disfigured image created by its own foul fancy and which it has endowed with its own vices, that Society dethrones and breaks. "Theosophy can only find objective expression in an all-embracing code of life, thoroughly impregnated with the spirit of mutual tolerance, charity, and brotherly love, its Society, as a body, has a task before it which, unless performed with the utmost discretion, will cause the world of the indifferent and the selfish to rise up in arms against it. Theosophy has to fight intolerance, prejudice, ignorance, and selfishness, hidden under the mantle of hypocrisy. It has to throw all the light it can from the torch of Truth, with which its servants are entrusted. It must do this without fear or hesitation, dreading neither reproof nor condemnation. Theosophy, through its mouthpiece, the Society, has to tell the TRUTH to the very face of LIE; to beard the tiger in its den, without thought or fear of evil consequences, and to set at defiance calumny and threats. As an Association, it has not only the right, but the duty to uncloak vice and do its best to redress wrongs, whether through the voice of its chosen lecturers or the printed word of its journals and publications-making its accusations, however, as impersonal as possible. But its Fellows, or Members have individually no such right, Its followers have, first of all, to set the example of a firmly outlined and as firmly applied morality, before they obtain the right to point out, even in a spirit of kindness, the absence of a like ethic unity and singleness of purpose in other associations or individuals. No Theosophist should blame a brother, whether within or outside of the association; neither may he throw a slur upon another's actions or denounce him, lest he himself lose the right to be considered a Theosophist. For, as such, he has to turn away his gaze from the imperfections of his neighbour, and centre rather his attention upon his own shortcomings, in order to correct them and become wiser. Let him not show the disparity between claim and action in another, but, whether in the case of a brother, a neighbor, or simply a fellow man, let him rather ever help one weaker than himself on the arduous walk of life. "The problems of true Theosophy and its great mission are, first, the working out of clear unequivocal conceptions of ethic ideas and duties, such as shall best and most fully satisfy the right and altruistic feelings in men; and, second, the modeling of these conceptions for their adaptation into such forms of daily life, as shall offer a field where they may be applied with most equitableness. "Such is the common work placed before all who are willing to act on these principles. It is a laborious task, and will require strenuous and persevering exertion; but it must lead you insensibly to progress, and leave you no room for any selfish aspirations outside the limits traced. . . . Do not indulge personally in unbrotherly comparison between the task accomplished by yourself and the work left undone by your neighbours or brothers. In the fields of Theosophy none is held to weed out a larger plot of ground than his strength and capacity will permit him. Do not be too severe on the merits or demerits of one who seeks admission among your ranks, as the truth about the actual state of the inner man can only be known to Karma, and can be dealt with justly by that all-seeing Law alone. Even the simple presence amidst you of a well-intentioned and sympathizing individual may help you magnetically. . You are the free volunteer workers on the fields of Truth, and as such must leave no obstruction on the paths leading to that field." * * * * * "The degree of success or failure are the landmarks the Masters have to follow, as they will constitute the barriers placed with your own hands between yourselves and those whom you have asked to be your teachers. The nearer your approach to the goal contemplated-the shorter the distance between the student and the Master." Lucifer, January, 1888 T A & N p. 133 Copied : Dallas TenBroeck Some of the statements above will be found to address the nature of "anonymity, impartiality, and universality." Also the work of Theosophy, of the "Society," the "Member/Associate," is discussed and defined. Mutual appreciation, help and tolerance, are placed as important criteria for co-association and work. This does not depend on any particular affiliation. The Inner GOD - the HIGHER SELF (ATMA) - is the final "judge" of each one of us. If the "Personal Man" listens to the voice if Intuition and of Conscience, then Theosophical work will be done. That is the voice of the ETERNAL MAN - the MONAD - the Eternal Pilgrim which we are spiritually. Our incarnations are designed by Karma (the sum of our past choices) to present us with the next step in advancement along the spiritual path. We neglect the opportunity at our peril. "To live to benefit mankind is the first step." That is: practical UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. DTB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Nisk98114@aol.com Fri Oct 03 07:29:53 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20404 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 14:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 14:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r03.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 14:29:52 -0000 Received: from Nisk98114@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.193.20775f17 (4539) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <193.20775f17.2caee1da@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:29:46 EDT Subject: Re: Re:What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 From: Nisk98114@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84166184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message: 16 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:43:20 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Re:What is This? In a message dated 10/2/2003 12:52:30 PM Central Daylight Time, Nisk98114@aol.com writes: : 1 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: What is this? I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail from theo-talk, or is this a spam? Marie ////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon is a regular contributor to the Theos world list.You may read it or discard it. Well, I must say that my introduction to this group has been singular to say the least. I am getting more information, but am still puzzled? What was Oraganon's real message and intent? I guess I'm not good with subtleties. Thanks. Marie /////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon could, perhaps, find last year's? archive and produce some of the posts that involved some explanations and exchanges on his contributions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From listmail@theosophist.org Fri Oct 03 07:54:22 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: listmail@theosophist.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80143 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 14:54:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 14:54:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 14:54:21 -0000 Received: from [167.167.187.206] (helo=scribe) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A5RLL-0003it-T0 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:55:43 -0400 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Re:What is This? Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <013601c389be$377f0a50$cebba7a7@scribe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <193.20775f17.2caee1da@aol.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophist.org From: "Eldon B tucker" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=141100620 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker When someone gets a message from the mailing list, if he or she replies to the message, the reply goes back to the list. (The line in the message header that causes this is: Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com This makes it easy to participate in a discussion on the list, since any of us can simply reply to a message from the list. It also means, though, that if we want to send a personal message to someone, a message not intended fo= r the entire list, that after composing the message, we cut-and-paste their email address in the TO: line of out outgoing message. -- Eldon -----Original Message----- From: Nisk98114@aol.com [mailto:Nisk98114@aol.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 7:30 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Re: Re:What is This? Message: 16 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:43:20 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Re:What is This? In a message dated 10/2/2003 12:52:30 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 Nisk98114@aol.com writes: : 1 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: What is this? I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail=20 from theo-talk, or is this a spam? Marie ////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon is a regular contributor to the Theos world list.You may read it o= r discard it. Well, I must say that my introduction to this group has been singular to sa= y the least. I am getting more information, but am still puzzled? What was=20 Oraganon's real message and intent? I guess I'm not good with subtleties.=20 Thanks. Marie /////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Oraganon could, perhaps, find last year's? archive and produce some of the= =20 posts that involved some explanations and exchanges on his contributions? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From oraganon@gnomon.org Fri Oct 03 08:26:57 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: oraganon@gnomon.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66353 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 15:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 15:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.powweb.com) (63.251.216.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 15:26:57 -0000 Received: from [68.211.162.128] (adsl-155-79-67.mia.bellsouth.net [68.155.79.67]) by mail01.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04291368C5 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: oraganon@mail.gnomon.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <193.20775f17.2caee1da@aol.com> References: <193.20775f17.2caee1da@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:26:44 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re:What is This? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: oraganon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150875912 X-Yahoo-Profile: oraganon1 The post often refer to associative mental projection of symbols an philosophies in string context in such a way as to allow a multitude of possible associations . Often it has been recommended for those that whish to gather a greater insight into the string to break up the text an translate the concept as one might do a string of hieroglyphs or translation of another language, to modernize the message into a comprised translation. Many of my inspirations have been from rough translation of philosophical text de rerum natura, emerald tablet come to mind , also my work with linguistic measures of translation of maya hieroglyphics an complete fascination of the properties of symbols. Also I must say that The SD has inspired many different levels of association an more specifically generalizations as universal symbols in my own work . And as a contribution to the list further an method of approach that has been gather from the level of abstracted ness of the SD. Ideas presented in the sd often are jumble associations in my eyes meant also to be interpreted in such a way . From the perspective of natural attraction an an commonalities to the individual self an influences to gather a collection of personal strings such as archetypes mythological concepts and associated concepts often symbols introducing relative personal idealization adopting personal beliefs philosophies crossing a multitude of cultural understandings an beliefs . Multi facetting archetypical explorations for instance toum shiva hea taking in example the ideal human potential being the essence of any archetype . The brahmin an para this that an not as such their is just so many accurate personalized concepts to be adopted an as such the leading role of human potential is in our ability to adapt personalize an build . Understandably the majority may not understand the reason or even my reasoning though it must be said that I just cant think of a reason why not. And I would like to thank the list for keeping an open mind an appreaceation for the work . respectfully -Og >Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:43:20 EDT > From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com >Subject: Re: Re:What is This? > >In a message dated 10/2/2003 12:52:30 PM Central Daylight Time, >Nisk98114@aol.com writes: >: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:24 EDT > From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com >Subject: What is this? > >I'm not sure what this is or what it means. Do people send individuals e-mail > > >from theo-talk, or is this a spam? >Marie >////////////////////////////////////////////// >Oraganon is a regular contributor to the Theos world list.You may read it or >discard it. >Well, I must say that my introduction to this group has been singular to say >the least. I am getting more information, but am still puzzled? What was >Oraganon's real message and intent? I guess I'm not good with subtleties. >Thanks. >Marie >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >Oraganon could, perhaps, find last year's? archive and produce some of the >posts that involved some explanations and exchanges on his contributions? > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From loboguara@expresso.com.br Fri Oct 03 08:41:54 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: loboguara@expresso.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96978 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 15:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 15:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO crusoe.expresso.com.br) (200.215.98.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 15:41:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 3482 invoked by uid 206); 3 Oct 2003 14:48:08 -0000 Received: from loboguara@expresso.com.br by crusoe.expresso.com.br by uid 209 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (avpdaemon: ???. clamscan: 0.54. Clear:. Processed in 0.976405 secs); 03 Oct 2003 14:48:08 -0000 Received: from ras1-p25.expresso.com.br (HELO versus) (200.215.98.189) by crusoe.expresso.com.br with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 14:48:07 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01c389bd$742df8e0$bd62d7c8@versus> To: References: <9.19acf382.2cad7224@aol.com> <3F7C668C.50804@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:55:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Eddy" Reply-To: "Eddy" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=115671528 X-Yahoo-Profile: edsinnet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only think I can think about this comment about below is ...ha ha ha ha! I have also tried this for ages.... Eddy ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart Lidofsky To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/2/03 12:15:04 AM Central Daylight Time, > bartl@sprynet.com writes: > > << He's trying to use some sort of subliminal methods to get people to > start worshiping him and sending him all their money. > >> > > I wish him luck. I've tried that for years with no success, dammit! Hey, you have women who want you to tie them up and beat them. Count your blessings. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From oraganon@gnomon.org Fri Oct 03 08:53:32 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: oraganon@gnomon.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40900 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 15:53:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 15:53:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.powweb.com) (63.251.216.34) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 15:53:32 -0000 Received: from [68.211.162.128] (adsl-155-79-67.mia.bellsouth.net [68.155.79.67]) by mail01.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C1F36704 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: oraganon@mail.gnomon.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003a01c38915$4882b530$cebba7a7@scribe> References: <003a01c38915$4882b530$cebba7a7@scribe> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:53:20 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? From: oraganon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150875912 X-Yahoo-Profile: oraganon1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conference of the Birds http://www.jwmt.org/v1n4/readlight.html Mindy: There was a reprint of a booklet on Senzar by John Algeo that appeared in a back issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD: http://www.theos-world.com/archives/html/tw199701.html#ARTICLE0005 http://www.theos-world.com/archives/html/tw199702.html#ARTICLE0006 -- Eldon Tucker -----Original Message----- From: Mindy [mailto:burgem@essex1.com] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:24 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Theos-World What is This? Greetings Og, I'd be delighted to learn more regarding Senzar. A few mentions of it can be found at http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/sanskrit.htm and http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/dzyan.htm Possibly Morten has further information?? Warm regards, Mindy -----Original Message----- From: oraganon [mailto:oraganon@gnomon.org] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:31 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World What is This? I have consider the ideas of Senzar . Question : Is a senzar have any reference to the spoken language of the babble crew, only being able to understand one another? I understand that a senzar has been reference to the oriental as well as the indian for the most high expression/translation of sacred occult or mystic text. Might any of you know where to find an unaltered translation of senzar? It mentioned only briefly in the SD, are their any other references?? respectfully -Og Hi all of you, No Bart I don't think so. At least - it - the "oraganon" will never have a large group of followers. It will I think have to change its level of understanding of Senzar. (smile...) from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some Khidr x-files... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- http://www.gnomon.org/oraganon/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From martinle@mindspring.com Fri Oct 03 11:12:13 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: martinle@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52096 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 18:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blount.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.226) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:12:13 -0000 Received: from [192.168.167.43] (helo=wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5UPU-0003qt-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:12:12 -0400 Message-ID: <17842730.1065204732505.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:12:12 -0700 (GMT-07:00) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Animals have no Soul - An Interesting article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 From: martinle@mindspring.com Reply-To: martinle@mindspring.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46070688 X-Yahoo-Profile: apuleyo20 Just saw it today. Any opinions on it? Martin Today in Italy Special service by AGI on behalf of the Italian Prime Minister's office =20=20 JESUITS: ANIMALS HAVE NO RIGHTS NOR SOUL BUT DESERVE RESPECT (AGI) - Vatican City, Oct. 2 - "Animals have no rights, as rights are a pri= vilege of spiritual beings." Jesuits commented on the issue of animals righ= ts with an article published on Civilt=E0 Cattolica, and which will probabl= y stir up the controversies risen some years ago by another article on the = same magazine. "It not true that animals rights should be protected by the = law. In fact, animals have no rights, which are a privilege of spiritual be= ings." According to Jesuits, "rights are connected to the spiritual and per= sonal character of human beings. Animals, which are not personal and spirit= ual beings have no rights. The 'ontological' distinction between animals an= d human kind should not justify a lack of respect towards these 'minor' cre= atures." (AGI)=20 021858 OTT 03=20 COPYRIGHTS 2002-2003 AGI S.p.A.=20=20 =20 From global-theosophy@adslhome.dk Fri Oct 03 12:36:15 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@adslhome.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30602 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 19:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 19:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pfepc.post.tele.dk) (193.162.153.4) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 19:36:14 -0000 Received: from khidr (0x50a44ff8.arcnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.164.79.248]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 785DF262A03 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:36:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007301c389e5$8138b840$f84fa450@opasia.dk> To: Subject: The latest news from our ABC correspondent... Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:35:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106996622 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all of you, The following might help to sort of understand Senzar, - although it might take years before the hidden point is learned: Nasrudin in Waterworld 'Nasrudin was working as a ferry man. One day a pedant employed him to convey him across the water As their journey progressed Nasrudin said something ungrammatical 'Have you never learnt the correct use of grammar' fumed the scholar 'No I aint' replyed the mulla 'Then you have wasted half your life' scoffed the man of letters Further into the journey a storm began to brew up and Nasrudins crazy cockle shell of a boat started to fill with water. 'Have you ever learnt to swim?' he belowed at the pendant through the now howling wind 'No' came the worried reply 'Then I'm afraid you've wasted all your life; where sinking!' One interpretation is that the mulla knows what is important and what is not, the scholar (the unenlightend) doesn't we are the scholar. A comparative study (Problably only for scholars and the like) Chapter 1: THE ISLANDERS (part 1-3) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13178 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13179 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13180 (And of course this version shouldn't be confused with another one on Sand and spiritual Camels - and travelling the Desert). (A huge smile...) As Wine(r) Pooh the cotton bear problably would say - with affection: "I think I have caught a Heffalump." And Piglit would answer - somewhat nervously: "Yes. I think, that is something you think." And Pooh would say - even more excited: "Yes. Now the eastern bee's of the middle will be no problem anymore." from M. Sufilight with peace and love... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Oct 03 13:46:24 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41370 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 20:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 20:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 20:46:24 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.66.36feeae2 (25508) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <66.36feeae2.2caf3a16@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:46:14 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Animals have no Soul - An Interesting article To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano In a message dated 10/3/03 1:15:58 PM Central Daylight Time, martinle@mindspring.com writes: << Just saw it today. Any opinions on it? Martin >> Garbage. Chuck From listmail@theosophist.org Fri Oct 03 14:27:44 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: listmail@theosophist.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22355 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 21:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 21:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.91.254.125) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 21:27:43 -0000 Received: from [167.167.187.206] (helo=scribe) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A5XU2-0003Cw-Tc for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 17:29:06 -0400 To: Subject: All Beings Have Rights Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:27:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c389f5$2b4bda10$cebba7a7@scribe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <17842730.1065204732505.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophist.org From: "Eldon B tucker" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=141100620 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker A political state determines what its citizens are and what are outsiders. It determines the rights and protections under law to its citizens, and determines what non-citizens are entitled to, if anything. In an ancient Greek city state, men of a particular city had rights and could vote. Greeks of neighboring cities had no rights and could be capture= d as slaves. Since that time, rights have been extended to everyone of either sex and race throughout a country and slavery has been abolished. Although there are some exceptions, this seems to be the general rule. Politics is influenced by religion, and some states are controlled by a particular faith or church. In Saudi, for instance, a version of Islam rule= s society and everyone is forced to comply with Islamic dictates regardless o= f their personal religious belief. The state says, "This is what you are allowed to do; these are your rights; if you do anything else, you are a criminal and subject to punishment or exile." It may also say, "You are not a citizen; your rights are restricted= ; here is what you're allowed to do." For example, a non-citizen may be denie= d the right to hold a job, but be protected against being robbed or being exploited by a landlord. When we come to animals, we have the same question. Are they accorded a place in our society and given rights, or are they considered non-entities and legally open to exploitation? We do have laws protecting animals, looking out for their welfare. The laws may fall short of fully protecting animals, but they do exist and they offer some help. The dangerous fallacy in the thinking of the Jesuits is that we are entitle= d to limit or ignore the rights of other living beings solely based upon our own beliefs. It's egocentric to say that we have an idea of the inner natur= e of things, and therefore laws determining the rights of others should be based our thinking and beliefs, rather than being based upon some utilitarian concept of the greatest good to all. Consider some imaginary people. Albert is a white male in Montana, and considers men of other cultures and all women as inferior and needing to be subservient to him and his fellows. Bob is a born-again missionary for the triple-reformed church of the blood of the saved Christ, and considers others not converted to his church to be devil worshipers that should be converted or put to death for the good of their own souls. Chad is an Asian racist of the one, true genetic stock, and considers all other bloodlines a= s subhuman, wishing all but those of the pureblood would be sterilized. Debra is a common-sense woman of science that would burn all metaphysical books and require anyone of religious or metaphysical belief to mandatory deprogramming sessions. Ebba is a member of the Esoteric Group, a special organization that only recruits from members of the Theocratic Society. Ebb= a believes that Theocratic members not in the Esoteric Group are spiritually inferior, unable to make proper judgments, and should never be allowed to hold an office in her local lodge. She will always vote and manipulate things politically to keep out the "masterless" members from holding office= . What do all of these people have in common? They not only think that their particular worldview is correct, but also feel justified in compelling it upon others, not caring if the others agree with them or not.=20 This is what the Jesuits do. They say animals do not have souls. They further say that beings without souls have no rights. They therefore state that animals should not have any legal rights or protection. The problem is that this is based upon their belief, not upon the beliefs of others, a consensus of the beliefs of everyone, nor a simple commonsense attempt at personal objectivity. Such objectivity starts when we clearly distinguish in our minds between ou= r ideas and preferences and those of others, when we accord their preferences as having merit too even though they are based upon different and possibly contradictory beliefs about life. The objectivity allows us to balance our differing outlooks without having to battle over the specifics of belief. I would say that all living beings have rights. (As do non-living beings as well.) The way we all interact may vary because life is complicated, there are numerous exceptions to any rule, and everything is imperfect. Compromises and the choice of the "least harmful way" may have to suffice when harmlessness is impossible to be achieved. But all beings have rights. -- Eldon -----Original Message----- >From: martinle@mindspring.com [mailto:martinle@mindspring.com]=20 >Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:12 AM >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Theos-World Animals have no Soul - An Interesting article Just saw it today. Any opinions on it? Martin Today in Italy Special service by AGI on behalf of the Italian Prime Minister's office =20=20 JESUITS: ANIMALS HAVE NO RIGHTS NOR SOUL BUT DESERVE RESPECT (AGI) - Vatican City, Oct. 2 - "Animals have no rights, as rights are a privilege of spiritual beings." Jesuits commented on the issue of animals rights with an article published on Civilt=E0 Cattolica, and which will probably stir up the controversies risen some years ago by another article on the same magazine. "It not true that animals rights should be protected by the law. In fact, animals have no rights, which are a privilege of spiritual beings." According to Jesuits, "rights are connected to the spiritual and personal character of human beings. Animals, which are not personal and spiritual beings have no rights. The 'ontological' distinction between animals and human kind should not justify a lack of respect towards these 'minor' creatures." (AGI)=20 021858 OTT 03=20 COPYRIGHTS 2002-2003 AGI S.p.A.=20=20 =20 =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From samblo@cs.com Fri Oct 03 15:46:59 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3313 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 22:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r01.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.97) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:46:59 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.167.264c79c5 (4446) for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <167.264c79c5.2caf563b@cs.com> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:46:19 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re:What is This? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 From: samblo@cs.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Marie, Please note the "Re:Theos-World Re: This tells the receiver that it is an E-mail that is from Theos-World which Eldon administrates. Members reply to topics posted by the many members of the list and then these individual posts are distributed to each individual subscribing member of the list. The posts do reference the screen ID of the member that posts the reply to "Theo-World" but are not sent from them to you privately unless the "Theos-World" is absent. No it is not spam but only E-mail post that was sent to all Members including yourself as a Subscriber. John From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Oct 03 16:21:20 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Earthlink.dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84289 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 23:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2003 23:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 23:21:19 -0000 Received: from pool1296.cvx17-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.237.21] helo=DALLAS) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A5ZEQ-0007km-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:21:06 -0700 To: "AA-BN--Study" Subject: RE: Part 1 ANIMALS HAVE SOULS -- vs Animals have no Soul - An Interesting article Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:20:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c38a05$014d2b50$15edb3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <17842730.1065204732505.JavaMail.root@wamui05.slb.atl.earthlink.net> X-eGroups-From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Oct 3 2003 Dear Friends: Consider what HPB has to say about Animals, their "souls" and suffering ---------------------------------------------- 1 WHY DO ANIMALS SUFFER? Article by H. P. Blavatsky Q. Is it possible for me who love the animals to learn how to get more power than I have to help them in their sufferings?=20 A. Genuine unselfish LOVE combined with WILL is a "power" in itself. They who love animals ought to show that affection in a more efficient way than by covering their pets with ribbons and sending them to howl and scratch at the prize exhibitions.=20 __________ Q. Why do the noblest animals suffer so much at the hands men? I need not enlarge or try to explain this question. Cities e torture places for the animals who can be turned to any account for use or amusement by man! and these are always the most noble.=20 A. In the Sutras, or the Aphorisms of the Karma-pa, a sect which is an offshoot of the great Gelukpa (yellow caps) sect in Tibet, and whose name bespeaks its tenets--"the believers in the efficacy of Karma," (action, or good works)--an Upasaka inquires of his Master, why the fate of the poor animals had so changed of late? Never was an animal killed or treated unkindly the vicinity of Buddhist or other temples in China, in days of old, while now, they are slaughtered and freely sold at the markets of various cities, etc. The answer is suggestive:=20 . . . "Lay not nature under the accusation of this unparalleled justice. Do not seek in vain for Karmic effects to explain the cruelty for the Tenbrel Chugnyi (causal connection, Nid=E2na) shall teach thee none. It is the unwelcome advent of the Peling Christian foreigner), whose three fierce gods refused to provide for the protection of the weak and little ones (animals), that is answerable for the ceaseless and heartrending sufferings of our dumb companions." . . .=20 The answer to the above query is here in a nutshell. It may be useful, if once more disagreeable, to some religionists to be told that the blame for this universal suffering falls entirely upon our Western religion and early education.=20 Every philosophical Eastern system, every religion and sect in antiquity--the Brahmanical, Egyptian, Chinese and finally, the purest as the noblest of all the existing systems of ethics, Buddhism--inculcates kindness and protection to every living creature, from animal and bird down to the creeping thing and even the reptile. Alone, our Western religion stands in its isolation, as a monument of the most gigantic human selfishness ever evolved by human brain, without one word in favor of, or for the protection of the poor animal. Quite the reverse. For theology, underlining a sentence in the Jehovistic chapter of "Creation," interprets it as a proof that animals, as all the rest, were created for man! Ergo--sport has become one of the noblest amusements of the upper ten. Hence--poor innocent birds wounded, tortured and killed every autumn by the million, all over the Christian countries, for man's recreation. Hence also, unkindness, often cold-blooded cruelty, during the youth of horse and bullock, brutal indifference to its fate when age has rendered it unfit for work, and ingratitude after years of hard labour for, and in the service of man. In whatever country the European steps in, there begins the slaughter of the animals and their useless decimation. =20 "Has the prisoner ever killed for his pleasure animals?" inquired a Buddhist Judge at a border town in China, infected with pious European Churchmen and missionaries, of a man accused of having murdered his sister. And having been answered in the affirmative, as the prisoner had been a servant in the employ of a Russian colonel, "a mighty hunter before the Lord," the Judge had no need of any other evidence and the murderer was found "guilty"--justly, as his subsequent confession proved.=20 Is Christianity or even the Christian layman to be blamed for it? Neither. It is the pernicious system of theology, long centuries of theocracy, and the ferocious, ever-increasing selfishness in the Western civilized countries. What can we do?=20 H P B=20 Lucifer, May, 1888=20 --------------------------------------- 2 HAVE ANIMALS SOULS? Article by H. P. Blavatsky Continually soaked with blood, the whole earth is but an immense altar=20 upon which all that lives has to be immolated--endlessly, incessantly. . . . -COMTE JOSEPH DE MAISTRE (Soir=E9es I. ii, 35) MANY are the "antiquated religious superstitions" of the East which Western nations often and unwisely deride: but none is so laughed at and practically set at defiance as the great respect of Oriental people for animal life. Flesh-eaters cannot sympathize with total abstainers from meat. We Europeans are nations of civilized barbarians with but a few millenniums between ourselves and our cave-dwelling forefathers who sucked the blood and marrow from uncooked bones.=20 Thus, it is only natural that those who hold human life so cheaply in their frequent and often iniquitous wars, should entirely disregard the death-agonies of the brute creation, and daily sacrifice millions of innocent, harmless lives; for we are too epicurean to devour tiger steaks or crocodile cutlets, but must have tender lambs and golden feathered pheasants. All this is only as it should be in our era of Krupp cannons and scientific vivisectors. Nor is it a matter of great wonder that the hardy European should laugh at the mild Hindu, who shudders at the bare thought of killing a cow, or that he should refuse to sympathize with the Buddhist and Jain, in their respect for the life of every sentient creature--from the elephant to the gnat.=20 But, if meat-eating has indeed become a vital necessity--"the tyrant's plea!"--among Western nations; if hosts of victims in every city, borough and village of the civilized world must needs be daily slaughtered in temples dedicated to the deity, denounced by St. Paul and worshipped by men "whose God is their belly":--if all this and much more cannot be avoided in our "age of Iron," who can urge the same excuse for sport? Fishing, shooting, and hunting, the most fascinating of all the "amusements" of civilized life--are certainly the most objectionable from the standpoint of occult philosophy, the most sinful in the eyes of the followers of these religious systems which are the direct outcome of the Esoteric Doctrine--Hinduism and Buddhism. Is it altogether without any good reason that the adherents of these two religions, now the oldest in the world, regard the animal world--from the huge quadruped down to the infinitesimally small insect--as their "younger brothers," however ludicrous the idea to a European? This question shall receive due consideration further on.=20 Nevertheless, exaggerated as the notion may seem, it is certain that few of us are able to picture to ourselves without shuddering the scenes which take place early every morning in the innumerable shambles of the so-called civilized world, or even those daily enacted during the "shooting season." The first sun-beam has not yet awakened slumbering nature, when from all points of the compass myriads of hecatombs are being prepared--to salute the rising luminary. Never was heathen Moloch gladdened by such a cry of agony from his victims as the pitiful wail that in all Christian countries rings like a long hymn of suffering throughout nature, all day and every day from morning until evening. In ancient Sparta--than whose stern citizens none were ever less sensitive to the delicate feelings of the human heart--a boy, when convicted of torturing an animal for amusement, was put to death as one whose nature was so thoroughly villainous that he could not be permitted to live. But in civilized Europe rapidly progressing in all things save Christian virtues--might remains unto this day the synonym of right. The entirely useless, cruel practice of shooting for mere sport countless hosts of birds and animals is nowhere carried on with more fervour than in Protestant England, where the merciful teachings of Christ have hardly made human hearts softer than they were in the days of Nimrod, "the mighty hunter before the Lord." Christian ethics are as conveniently turned into paradoxical syllogisms as those of the "heathen." The writer was told one day by a sportsman that since "not a sparrow falls on the ground without the will of the Father," he who kills for sport--say, one hundred sparrows does thereby one hundred times over--his Father's will! A wretched lot is that of poor brute creatures, hardened as it is into implacable fatality by the hand of man. The rational soul of the human being seems born to become the murderer of the irrational soul of the animal--in the full sense of the word, since the Christian doctrine teaches that the soul of the animal dies with its body. Might not the legend of Cain and Abel have had a dual signification?=20 Look at that other disgrace of our cultured age--the scientific slaughter-houses called "vivisection rooms." Enter one of those halls in Paris, and behold Paul Bert, or some other of these men--so justly called "the learned butchers of the Institute"--at his ghastly work. I have but to translate the forcible description of an eye-witness, one who has thoroughly studied the modus operandi of those "executioners," a well known French author:=20 "Vivisection"--he says--"is a specialty in which torture, scientifically economised by our butcher-academicians, is applied during whole days, weeks, and even months to the fibres and muscles of one and the same victim. It (torture) makes use of every and any kind of weapon, performs its analysis before a pitiless audience, divides the task every morning between ten apprentices at once, of whom one works on the eye, another one on the leg, the third on the brain, a fourth on the marrow; and whose inexperienced hands succeed, nevertheless, towards night after a hard day's work, in laying bare the whole of the living carcass they had been ordered to chisel out, and that in the evening, is carefully stored away in the cellar, in order that early next morning it may be worked upon again if only there is a breath of life and sensibility left in the victim! We know that the trustees of the Grammont law (loi) have tried to rebel against this abomination; but Pans showed herself more inexorable than London and Glasgow."l=20 And yet these gentlemen boast of the grand object pursued, and of the grand secrets discovered by them. "Horror and lies!"--exclaims the same author. "In the matter of secrets--a few localizations of faculties and cerebral motions excepted--we know but of one secret that belongs to them by rights: it is the secret of torture eternalized, beside which the terrible natural law of autophagy (mutual manducation), the horrors of war, the merry massacres of sport, and the sufferings of the animal under the butcher's knife--are as nothing! Glory to our men of science! They have surpassed every former kind of torture, and remain now and for ever, without any possible contestation, the kings of artificial anguish and despair!"2=20 The usual plea for butchering, killing, and even for legally torturing animals--as in vivisection--is a verse or two in the Bible, and its ill-digested meaning, disfigured by the so-called scholasticism represented by Thomas Aquinas. Even De Mirville, that ardent defender of the rights of the church, calls such texts--"Biblical tolerances, forced from God after the deluge, as so many others, and based upon the decadence of our strength." However this may be, such texts are amply contradicted by others in the same Bible. The meat-eater, the sportsman and even the vivisector--if there are among the last named those who believe in special creation and the Bible--generally quote for their justification that verse in Genesis, in which God gives dual Adam--"dominion over the fish, fowl, cattle, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth"--(Ch. I., v. 28); hence--as the Christian understands it--power of life and death over every animal on the globe. To this the far more philosophical Brahman and Buddhist might answer; "Not so. Evolution starts to mould future humanities within the lowest scales of being. Therefore, by killing an animal, or even an insect, we arrest the progress of an entity towards its final goal in nature--MAN"; and to this the student of occult philosophy may say "Amen," and add that it not only retards the evolution of that entity, but arrests that of the next succeeding human and more perfect race to come.=20 Which of the opponents is right, which of them the more logical? The answer depends mainly, of course, on the personal belief of the intermediary chosen to decide the questions. If he believes in special creation--so-called--