From mail@katinkahesselink.net Sun Aug 31 23:44:58 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91139 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 06:44:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 06:44:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.101) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 06:44:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2003 06:42:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:42:50 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Past issues Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030831111152.42087.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 306 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi, Theos-talk archives are at: http://www.theos-talk.com/ Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bambang Budihardja wrote: > Hi Dallas, > > I just suggest that theos-talks articles can be saved > in CD ROM and sold as they are invaluables and also > more convenient . > > Regards, From global-theosophy@adslhome.dk Mon Sep 01 01:12:52 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@adslhome.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10092 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 08:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 08:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pfepa.post.tele.dk) (193.162.153.2) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 08:12:50 -0000 Received: from khidr (0x50a44fd8.arcnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.164.79.216]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D248B48012F for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:12:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001a01c3705f$e54c6920$d84fa450@opasia.dk> To: References: <20030901003829.9623.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World H.P. Blavatsky's Writings and Teachings: Recommended Online and Printed Sources Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:06:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106996622 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hi Daniel and all of you, Thanks for your kind email. You have a link to the following page Daniel. http://www.katinkahesselink.net/metaphys/th-bowen.htm I just read the Bowen paper and the footnotes attached to them by Katinka Hesselink. One has to say thanks to her for putting them online. Even so I disagree with the footnotes made by Katinka. And just to let you know, my fast written view on the matter - I email this to Theos-Talk readers: On note 3 + 5. It is not nonsense - if the notes were made to disciples. - Those who can read the Akasha - recordings or parts of it understand this as not being nonsense. The authors imprints are always there. You know Blavatsky never really favoured dead-letter reading. On note 6. Yes. But, this could be said no matter what time one would have chosen to put out these thoughts. And maybe because they were true - they were published. On note 7. Yes - but there could be reasons not to reveal all this to the students at that time - year 1888-1891. The world has changed so very much since. The average individual on this Planet has today 2003 a higher mental development than back then. Teaching happens according to - the needed the designs of the students in a group. And NOT according to a WANTED design. More on design in the below. On note 9 or 10 ? (a syntax error) I have to say I disagree with the twisting you make of the Neti, Neti doctrine of the Upanishads. Jnana Yoga and the Advaita teacings has much in common according to my view. The REAL disciple ALWAYS follows Jnana Yoga. With Jnana Yoga being more than the dead-letter Indian version of it. Those who think they are disciples - and who doesn't follow Jnana Yoga but other systems - as for instance the Bakhti Yoga cult (the devotional cult) - are just aspirants - involved in a kama-manas (emotionally-related) cult-like behaviour - just like a number the present day Theosophists are. If one tells them that this is the fact - they sometimes refuse to understand it, even if this is the truth. They have not yet transcended their time-space view so they understand - the Neti, Neti doctrine on past, present and future. They are too emotional. Basically there are Bakhti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Karma Yoga. All three of them merges when - the aspirant - becomes the disciple and begins on the Path. When they haven't merged - and when Jnana Yoga is thought of as a doctrine one can avoid - then there is no true Discipleship. This I believe are the teachings - and also the teachings of Blavatsky. All wisdom teaching to the apirants and disciples are made up of designs. These designs are given to the students or Seekers - and involves are certain expereince. The designs makes a certain amount of penetration in the students minds and hearts. The teacher measures these penetrations. And after a while new designs are being made - and a new penetration happens, and so on. These designs are experiences, which we have as Students on the Path. It can be our behaviour, when something quite unexpected happens. But again these are just my views - and claimed knowledge. Others might disagree. from M. Sufilight with peace and love... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" To: ".DanielHCaldwell" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Theos-World H.P. Blavatsky's Writings and Teachings: Recommended Online and Printed Sources > I have started working on a comprehensive series of > web pages titled: > > H.P. Blavatsky's Writings and Teachings: > Recommended Online and Printed Sources > > See: > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbwritings3.htm > > This is a draft copy very incomplete since I intend to > ALSO have sections on ISIS, KEY, VOICE, HPB's > collected articles, etc. > > So far I have only done the part on the SD. I've > tried to bring together most of the important online > and print sources. I need to work more on this SD > section but in the meantime, I thought I would get > feedback from theosophical students. > > If you have any thoughts and comments, please email > them to me. > > Thanking everyone in advance. > > > ===== > Daniel H. Caldwell > BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER/BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES > http://blavatskyarchives.com/introduction.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at > their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and > hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." > H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > You can always access our main site by > simply typing into the URL address > bar the following 6 characters: > > hpb.cc > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From mail@katinkahesselink.net Mon Sep 01 01:59:49 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59647 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 06:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 06:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 06:56:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.248] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2003 06:56:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:55:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World FW: In Defense of Radha Burnier Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F4C2EF4.2080004@sprynet.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1233 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Bart, I don't know about Denmark. I do know that the folowup of the New Acropolis deal included warnings sent to all sections that the New Acropolis-group is in fact a racist group, with lectures about Plato and Blavatsky created as bait for people to join. Now, I don't know to what extent theosophical groups should spread 'basic theosophy' (whatever that is), but I do think that the theosophical society should not contain groups that are racist. Now I do trust Radha enough to say: if she says a certain group is racist, than it is. She would not spread a lie, and she would have had it researched. In fact I seem to remember that our then chair in The Netherlands helped in the research. I'm not sure about that though. All of this also as memory serves. Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > In the cases of Yugoslavia and Denmark, I am curious as to whether or > not there was evidence that there was gong to be an attempt of transfer > of property to either New Acropolis, the Arcane School, or the Lucis > Trust (and if the Danish group's property has been transferred to either > the Arcane School or the Lucis Trust since. Mort?). > > Bart Lidofsky From oraganon@gnomon.org Mon Sep 01 10:01:12 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: oraganon@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61666 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 17:01:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 17:01:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net) (205.152.59.69) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 17:01:01 -0000 Received: from [68.211.206.146] by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030901165309.XIBX1847.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[68.211.206.146]>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:53:09 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.4 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:53:07 -0400 Subject: pOntY To: one Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: ToOn AnOn From: ToOn AnOn X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150875912 X-Yahoo-Profile: oraganon1 say to graze upon the open harts do fold frequent to undiscovered paths ways to the distant seen of self realization in comprehension shift colour painted on canvas matrix some to the brain food forgetting what it was to just be beyond told truths an lies the natural observation an action of nature growing roots in the source soaking rays from the source surrounding particle particular molecules motioning from ever thread shining through the cross woven intelligence before the mind s field of dream s actuality of existence mark of conversation the observation of what actually is translucent skin sight of mind the body within seeing clearly the differences an non to acquire the one ness of infinity the perfection of diversity diversifying the answers to questions that be just be the difference know what it is you have inside -- oraganon http://www.gnomon.org/ From mail@katinkahesselink.net Mon Sep 01 11:22:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30261 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 18:22:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 18:22:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 18:22:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2003 18:22:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:22:33 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World H.P. Blavatsky's Writings and Teachings: Recommended Online and Printed Sources Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001a01c3705f$e54c6920$d84fa450@opasia.dk> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1147 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Morten, Glad to see my website gets studied. I agree on one point you make here, about note 3. With the next update that one will be deleted. Unfortunately Barry Tompson has not yet finished his paper on this subject, so the extent of his research can't yet be assessed. Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" wrote: > Hi Daniel and all of you, > > > Thanks for your kind email. > > You have a link to the following page Daniel. > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/metaphys/th-bowen.htm > > I just read the Bowen paper and the footnotes attached to them by Katinka > Hesselink. One has to say thanks to her for putting them online. Even so I > disagree with the footnotes made by Katinka. And just to let you know, my > fast written view on the matter - I email this to Theos-Talk readers: > > > On note 3 + 5. It is not nonsense - if the notes were made to disciples. - > Those who can read the Akasha - recordings or parts of it understand this as > not being nonsense. The authors imprints are always there. > You know Blavatsky never really favoured dead-letter reading. From th.paijmans@wxs.nl Mon Sep 01 11:28:07 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: th.paijmans@wxs.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34213 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 18:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 18:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp09.wxs.nl) (195.121.6.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 18:28:07 -0000 Received: from wxs.nl (ipd50af872.speed.planet.nl [213.10.248.114]) by smtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HKJ001KBSEPWC@smtp09.wxs.nl> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:23:13 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:23:59 +0200 Subject: W. Scott Elliott To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3F538EBE.C1FD06F6@wxs.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en References: From: Theo Paijmans X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52269294 Dear all, I am desperately looking for: a) a picture of W. Scott Elliott, the writer of The History Of Atlantis b) a reliable biography Somehow, there is no information on him to be found anywhere. Your time and patience are greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Theo Paijmans From mail@katinkahesselink.net Mon Sep 01 12:02:45 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94315 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 19:02:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2003 19:02:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 19:02:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2003 18:56:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:56:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Besant and Judge and HPB Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7056 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Dallas, I know, HPB wrote a lot of positive stuff about Judge. But she also wrote a lot of positive stuff about Annie Besant. Weirdly enough though, only the positive stuff on Judge gets a lot of press. The fact is though, that these two people, both often praised by HPB, got into a fight. History shows Judge walking out of this fight without defending himself (that is - he got of on what is clearly a technicality). Now I am not saying Besant never made a mistake in her life. She probably made many. And perhaps the Judge case could have been handled better. But there was clearly something to 'handle'. People should really read the biography recently published by Ascella Publications about Walter Old. He was a stalwart theosophist, in HPB's days and when she died, he was holding her hand. Now theosophical history as usually told, has very little to say about him. Yet he wrote articles, held lectures, set up lodges all over Great Britain, etc. For a more full acount of the book (and where you can order it) see: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kh/rev_w_old.html The point is, there is more than one side to the Judge case. Now if somebody, however close to HPB they had been, were saying they were receiving letters from the Masters, these days, we would all want the most stringent tests performed, before believing them. Yet with Judge, people just did. Untill Walter Old brought damaging papers to Olcott. I can't really go into details here, as I really don't know that much about this. What I do think, based on my reading, is that the story of the Judge Case has not yet been written. Maybe it never will. And perhaps we shouldn't even care that deeply: HPB, Judge and Besant all three of them, wrote very interesting stuff. Both Judge and Besant have details here and there that I can't get around to believing, but who cares. It is very unusual that a person gets things right in every detail. But I do want to (just for the sake of creating an even playing field) quote material published in Theosophical History Magazine written by Countess Wachtmeister. Now as those know who've studied theosophical history even superficially, she lived with HPB during those final years in London and Ostend and Wuerzburg. I dare say she was closer to HPB (at least physically) than anybody else. And it turns out, she has some things to repeat that apparently HPB said about Judge. Now these things aren't too positive, so I want to go on record as having said also: Judge's writings are superb in many places. I've published quite a few of his stories and articles on my website for that very reason. But apparently: >> During H.P.B.'s residence in Wuerzburg and Ostend she was in continual correspondence with several Europeans and Americans, who were under her tuition at that time. I knew that Mr. Judge was one of her pupils. I had met him for the first time at Engien, as mentioned in my "Reminiscences of H.P.B.," and feeling a personal friendship for him, I asked H.P.B. whether he would be the one to replace her when she left us - her reply was NO, he would never be her successor; she had a high opinion of his knowledge as a lawyer, also of his remarkable executive faculties and his power of organisation (all of which she sensed beforehand, because they had not yet come into play), yet, from an occult point of view he would never progress much in this life, having failed in one of the trials placed in his path on the occult road. Then she added: "Poor Judge, he is his own worst enemy," Another day she called me into her room and showed me a letter, written by W.Q. Judge to her. It began with his own handwriting, which suddenly changed into the handwriting of H.P.B., and so perfect was the imitation, that I could not detect a single flaw; then he went on with his own handwriting again to the end of the letter. I looked at H.P.B. aghast and said, "But surely this is a very dangerous power to possess," to which she replied, "Yes, but I do not believe Judge would use it for wrong or evil purposes." >> >> H.P.B. always told me that her successor would be a woman, long before Annie Besant had become a member of the T.S. She made various attempts with different people, hoping to find one, but was quite unsuccessful, so that she became terribly depressed and downhearted, saying, "There is nobody left to take my place when I am gone." It was only when Annie Besant joined the movement that her hopes revived, for she seemed to feel that in her she would find a successor. >> The Countess was a clairvoyant. She goes on to write about what she saw in Annie Besant's aura: >> One day I saw Annie Besant enveloped in a cloud of light - Master's colour. He was standing by her side with his hand over her head. I left the room, went quickly to H.P.B., and finding her alone, told her what I had witnessed, and asked her if that was a sign that Master had chosen Annie Besant as her successor. H.P.B. replied, "yes," and that she was glad I had seen it. >> Now I can't go and quote the whole document. It can be found in the april 1989 issue of Theosophical History, pages 51-61. Very interesting material. I am not sending all this out in order to bash Judge. He contributed to the Theosophical Movement quite considerably. But perhaps his saddest contribution, was when the truth was no longer as important as the power of the office he held, and the movement was split as a result. I don't know whether that conclusion is the truth of the matter. I do know that Annie Besant hasn't been done justice at all. Perhaps because her accomplishments are so obviously many, do so many feel it necessary to pull her down. Whereas Judge, he died a martyr. Either in self-delusionment, or sorrow, I don't know. But it is far more romantic to worship a martyr. Well, I could not resist that. I hope I haven't offended anybody. Katinka Hesselink --- In Blavatsky_Study@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBreock" wrote: > Aug 26 2003 > > Dear Katinka: > > Re: Judge and Besant > > > You wrote: on Aug 24 2003 (in part) > > "Though the material offered here is of value in studying > theosophical > history, it is far from impartial. It defends W.Q. Judge at the > expense of Annie Besant consistently. Unfortunately not many of > Annie > Besant's friends have taken it upon themselves to defend her, but > that does not mean that Judge was guiltless. Nor does it mean > that > the TS is supposed to be the Blavatsky and Judge admiration > society > that one might think it ought to be after reading the below (if > one > can get through it - personally I could not get through the book > based on this, but I read enough to feel I should say this.)" > > > Allow me to send herewith some bio-notes prepared from original > documents (and to which I have added my comments) > > Since they speak for themselves, I will be glad to answer any > questions on them, if asked. > > Best wishes, > > Dallas From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 01 21:04:56 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37609 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 04:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:04:54 -0000 Received: from pool1164.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.54.144] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19u2O0-0001oi-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:03:21 -0700 To: "AA-BN--Study" Subject: RE: Theos-World Besant and Judge and HPB Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c37107$0848e2d0$9036b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: From: "W. Dallas TenBreock" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Sept 1 2002 Re W Q JUDGE, accusations by Mrs. Besant, etc... Dear Katinka: Let me say this I have researched theosophical historical documents and books, pamphlets, etc -- such as may be found in the several archives of the various societies, etc., for over 50 years. I have made an almost complete set of copies thereof. Several students have independently produced a list of all the known papers and statements relating thereto, have checked and re-checked them for accuracy, and have arranged them chronologically. They do not need to deal in opinions, but can trace every move recorded, and word printed. Since we deal now a days with the versions of Theosophical history as recorded by various persons, almost 100, or more years after the events, we cannot go into that with any prejudgments. You will note that the conflict arose because Mrs. Besant said that while the Master's "messages" [sent to specific individuals and included in letters written by Mr. Judge] WERE TRUE -- but.... But, she denied that the METHOD of WRITING or PRESENTATION was true. In effect, it was averred that Mr. Judge had "forged" those messages. He denied this and offered to prove that, but his offer was never accepted. History does not say why. This sounds very strange. TRUE AS MASTER'S MESSAGES (she admitted) -- but untrue in method and manner of delivery? Of course everyone was (and still is) confused. Further, they were "sailing in unchartered waters," so to say. This, it was then explained, had to do with occultism ! -- and the exoteric world of the TS and its membership, would never be able to understand or grasp this fact, or the difference. What happened was that PRIVATE MESSAGES were being made public [this is a violation of trust and a public confession of a loss of integrity] and, further horror, these purloined PRIVATE letters were copied and made public. They were used as a basis for personal accusations against the "postman," (Mr. Judge). There is (in my esteem) no excuse (then or now) for such a violation of integrity. None. As a writer, and to be honest and true, I have to draw conclusions independent of what anyone says, hence, I go to the DOCUMENTS. I can trace there the course of events -- I can see "who did what." On that basis, trying to be fair and impartial I write. As far as I can gather, it was Mrs. Besant who late in 1893 started accusations against Mr. Judge, as VICE-PRESIDENT of the TS. You may remember that earlier, the Masters though H P B, had demanded that Mr. Judge be made Vice-President. Olcott had it done, and the General Council ratified this. She (Mrs. Besant) did so on the basis that he was acting as VICE-PRESIDENT. [Incidentally, did you notice that Mr. Judge gave Col. Olcott warning ahead of time that the chosen course was faulty, and would fail? ] His (Mr. Judge's) response was that he never acted, in the transmission of his letters, as VICE-PRESIDENT -- but all his work and correspondence had been done ONLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL. And this was proved.=20=20 [See TWO REPLIES BY W. Q. JUDGE Pub.: Theosophy Company, Los Angeles. ] The accusations considered in July 1894 in London, were defeated on the basis of insufficiency and inaccuracy. They would have to be rewritten if they were to be levied against him personally. Mrs. Besant then declared herself satisfied This fact was recognized. Yes, it is a technicality. But it is a most important one. An individual could act as either an official or for himself, separate from that position. All accounts of the official Judiciary meetings in July 1894 show that at that time, Mr. Judge was not given a fair chance to view the evidence, either before or after the meetings. He protested and so did his associate Dr. J. D. Buck who accompanied him. The parties met in London and it was recognized that there was no basis for making any accusation against Mr. Judge as VICE-PRESIDENT. The changes were then dropped. A reconciliation was printed in LUCIFER and made public. Mr. Judge was exonerated and officially restored to the position of Vice-President. A few moths later we find that Mr. Olds (to whose trust Col. Olcott had given the documentary evidence), in apparent violation of that trust, leaked these confidential matters to Garrett -- who wrote for the WESTMINSTER GAZETTE. That reopened the affair, made it public, and the whole attack was prominently pursued. It was picked up again and with renewed force it was directed at Judge personally. Members took sides. The magazines were used as regular launching pads for opinions -- most of which were not accurate or ill-based. THE PAPERS AND RECORDS ARE THERE TO BE READ. If one does not read them, then one has only opinions to offer. That is neither historical in accuracy, nor fair to either party.=20=20 And at this time (in my opinion) it is useless to bring forward a fresh set of opinions. If what you aver is true, then may we have a list and synopsis of documents that support them. Dates, times, persons and places will have to be given sequentially, so others can verify them. WE ALL NEED TO READ THE FACTS. Best wishes, Dallas. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Katinka Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:57 AM To:=20 Subject: Besant and Judge and HPB Hi Dallas, I know, HPB wrote a lot of positive stuff about Judge. But she also=20 wrote a lot of positive stuff about Annie Besant. Weirdly enough=20 though, only the positive stuff on Judge gets a lot of press.=20 The fact is though, that these two people, both often praised by HPB,=20 got into a fight. History shows Judge walking out of this fight=20 without defending himself (that is - he got of on what is clearly a=20 technicality).=20 Now I am not saying Besant never made a mistake in her life. She=20 probably made many. And perhaps the Judge case could have been=20 handled better. But there was clearly something to 'handle'. People=20 should really read the biography recently published by Ascella=20 Publications about Walter Old. He was a stalwart theosophist, in=20 HPB's days and when she died, he was holding her hand. Now=20 theosophical history as usually told, has very little to say about=20 him. Yet he wrote articles, held lectures, set up lodges all over=20 Great Britain, etc. For a more full acount of the book (and where you=20 can order it) see:=20 http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kh/rev_w_old.html The point is, there is more than one side to the Judge case. Now if=20 somebody, however close to HPB they had been, were saying they were=20 receiving letters from the Masters, these days, we would all want the=20 most stringent tests performed, before believing them. Yet with=20 Judge, people just did. Untill Walter Old brought damaging papers to=20 Olcott.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB History says Olcott entrusted the documents to Olds =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I can't really go into details here, as I really don't know=20 that much about this.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB Then avoid spreading unfounded opinions please. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D What I do think, based on my reading, is that=20 the story of the Judge Case has not yet been written. Maybe it never=20 will. And perhaps we shouldn't even care that deeply: HPB, Judge and=20 Besant all three of them, wrote very interesting stuff. Both Judge=20 and Besant have details here and there that I can't get around to=20 believing, but who cares. It is very unusual that a person gets=20 things right in every detail.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB Precisely my point. If we do not KNOW and have no facts, we ought to abstain from opinions or speculations. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D But I do want to (just for the sake of creating an even playing=20 field) quote material published in Theosophical History Magazine=20 written by Countess Wachtmeister. Now as those know who've studied=20 theosophical history even superficially, she lived with HPB during=20 those final years in London and Ostend and Wuerzburg. I dare say she=20 was closer to HPB (at least physically) than anybody else. And it=20 turns out, she has some things to repeat that apparently HPB said=20 about Judge. Now these things aren't too positive, so I want to go on=20 record as having said also: Judge's writings are superb in many=20 places. I've published quite a few of his stories and articles on my=20 website for that very reason. But apparently: "During H.P.B.'s residence in Wuerzburg and Ostend she was in=20 continual correspondence with several Europeans and Americans, who=20 were under her tuition at that time. I knew that Mr. Judge was one of=20 her pupils. I had met him for the first time at Engien, as mentioned=20 in my "Reminiscences of H.P.B.," and feeling a personal friendship=20 for him, I asked H.P.B. whether he would be the one to replace her=20 when she left us - her reply was NO, he would never be her successor;=20 she had a high opinion of his knowledge as a lawyer, also of his=20 remarkable executive faculties and his power of organisation (all of=20 which she sensed beforehand, because they had not yet come into=20 play), yet, from an occult point of view he would never progress much=20 in this life, having failed in one of the trials placed in his path=20 on the occult road. Then she added: "Poor Judge, he is his own worst=20 enemy," Another day she called me into her room and showed me a=20 letter, written by W.Q. Judge to her. It began with his own=20 handwriting, which suddenly changed into the handwriting of H.P.B.,=20 and so perfect was the imitation, that I could not detect a single=20 flaw; then he went on with his own handwriting again to the end of=20 the letter. I looked at H.P.B. aghast and said, "But surely this is a=20 very dangerous power to possess," to which she replied, "Yes, but I=20 do not believe Judge would use it for wrong or evil purposes."=20 "H.P.B. always told me that her successor would be a woman, long=20 before Annie Besant had become a member of the T.S. She made various=20 attempts with different people, hoping to find one, but was quite=20 unsuccessful, so that she became terribly depressed and downhearted,=20 saying, "There is nobody left to take my place when I am gone." It=20 was only when Annie Besant joined the movement that her hopes=20 revived, for she seemed to feel that in her she would find a=20 successor." The Countess was a clairvoyant. She goes on to write about what she=20 saw in Annie Besant's aura: "One day I saw Annie Besant enveloped in a cloud of light -=20 Master's colour. He was standing by her side with his hand over her=20 head. I left the room, went quickly to H.P.B., and finding her alone,=20 told her what I had witnessed, and asked her if that was a sign that=20 Master had chosen Annie Besant as her successor. H.P.B.=20 replied, "yes," and that she was glad I had seen it." Now I can't go and quote the whole document. It can be found in the=20 april 1989 issue of Theosophical History, pages 51-61. Very=20 interesting material.=20 I am not sending all this out in order to bash Judge. He contributed=20 to the Theosophical Movement quite considerably. But perhaps his=20 saddest contribution, was when the truth was no longer as important=20 as the power of the office he held, and the movement was split as a=20 result. I don't know whether that conclusion is the truth of the=20 matter. I do know that Annie Besant hasn't been done justice at all.=20 Perhaps because her accomplishments are so obviously many, do so many=20 feel it necessary to pull her down. Whereas Judge, he died a martyr.=20 Either in self-delusionment, or sorrow, I don't know. But it is far=20 more romantic to worship a martyr.=20 Well, I could not resist that. I hope I haven't offended anybody.=20 Katinka Hesselink=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB You have to read and compare the WHOLE set of documents. Do not rely solely on what Wachtmeister wrote. Dal=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- In Blavatsky_Study@yahoogroups.com, "Dallas TenBroeck"=20 wrote: > Aug 26 2003 >=20 > Dear Katinka: >=20 > Re: Judge and Besant >=20 >=20 > You wrote: on Aug 24 2003 (in part) >=20 > "Though the material offered here is of value in studying theosophical > history, it is far from impartial. It defends W.Q. Judge at the > expense of Annie Besant consistently. Unfortunately not many of > Annie Besant's friends have taken it upon themselves to defend her, but > that does not mean that Judge was guiltless. Nor does it mean > that the TS is supposed to be the Blavatsky and Judge admiration > society that one might think it ought to be after reading the below (if > one can get through it - personally I could not get through the book > based on this, but I read enough to feel I should say this.)" >=20 >=20 > Allow me to send herewith some bio-notes prepared from original > documents (and to which I have added my comments) >=20 > Since they speak for themselves, I will be glad to answer any > questions on them, if asked. >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 01 21:05:04 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99764 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:04:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 04:04:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:04:46 -0000 Received: from pool1164.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.54.144] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19u2O9-0001oi-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:03:30 -0700 To: "AA-BN--Study" Subject: FW: 2 vol. THE NINE LIVES OF ANNIE BESANT Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c37107$0f261690$9036b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal From: "W. Dallas TenBreock" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Aug 31 2002 The Author is Dr. Arthur E. Nethercott ===================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 2:57 AM To: Subject: Re: 2 vol. THE NINE LIVES OF ANNIE BESANT Aug. 26 2003 There is a very thorough documentary biography of Annie Besant It is published in 2 volumes: Title THE NINE LIVES OF ANNIE BESANT By Dr. Arthur E Nethercott Published by University of Chicago Press, (1958 - 60 ?) Thanks Dal From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 01 21:07:09 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10289 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 04:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.116) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:07:09 -0000 Received: from pool1164.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.54.144] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19u2Qr-0005wx-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:06:18 -0700 To: "'AA-BN--Study'" Cc: "'AA-Theos-talk'" Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: SOME THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY (3 series of articles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:06:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c37107$8ad68450$9036b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: From: "W. Dallas TenBreock" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Aug 26 2003 [ Resent as my computer crashed -- not sure this went out DTB ] Re Judge Dear Katinka. Re: Your remarks concerning Mr. Judge. His life and work. It is possible that you may not be familiar with Mr. Judge's life and work.=20=20 Hence I send you the enclosed:=20=20 Bio-Notes on W Q J=20 It is self-explanatory I think, but if there are questions I will be grad to amplify. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Annie Besant reads the Fourth "Message" from HPB.=20=20 1891. Apl. 15 Fifth "Message" to American Theosophists -- H.P.Blavatsky=20 re: Judge - Read on HPB's behalf by Mrs. Annie Besant=20 She reads a special Fifth "Message" in connection with HPB's valuation of Mr. Judge .[This is significant view of HPB's death, within 2 weeks of this event, and the "Judge Case" which was started three years later in 1894.] >From H.P.Blavatsky:] "To the Fifth Convention of the American Section=20 of The Theosophical Society Brother Theosophists: "I have purposely omitted any mention of my oldest friend and fellow-worker, W.Q.Judge, in my general address to you, because I think that his unflagging and self-sacrificing efforts for the building up of Theosophy in America deserves special mention. Had it not been for W.Q.Judge, Theosophy would not be where it is today in the United States. It is he who has mainly built up the movement among you, and he who has proved in a thousand ways his entire loyalty to the best interests of Theosophy and the Society. Mutual admiration should play no part in a Theosophical Convention, but honor should be given where honor is due, and I gladly take this opportunity of stating in public, by the mouth of my friend and colleague, Annie Besant, my deep appreciation of the work of your General Secretary, and of publicly tendering him my most sincere thanks and deeply-felt gratitude in the name of Theosophy, and for the noble work he is doing and has done. Yours fraternally, = =20 H.P.Blavatsky /\ [NOTE: The significance of this letter, which HPB sent through Annie Besant, who read it on her behalf to the Convention, ought not to be overlooked. HPB was aware of the approaching death of her body, and that she would not see AB again in that body. This and other hints she gave to AB, who had only been 2 years in the TS (as compared with Judge's 16 years of unremitting toil), so she would realize the trust reposed in him.] 1891 APRIL-MAY Judge Explains "Borrowed Body" at an=20 E S Meeting [This extract from a letter by Mr. R. Crosbie, dated Oct. 14th l914 to Mr. Frederick Weed Flint of New York. (Bottom of p. 2) It relates to an incident at an E S Meeting in Boston in 1891.]=20 "I will now state something that occurred at a general E.S. meeting in Boston after the Convention of 1891--a few days [May 6th 1891] before the passing of H.P.B. [May 8th 1891]. W.Q.J. and A. B. were present. After exacting a promise that no one present should speak of what he was about to say, W.Q.J. said:=20=20 "You know me as Wm. Q. Judge, born in Ireland, but I have to say to you all that this body is not mine. It is a borrowed body for purposes of the work. My own body is of a different sort and race. How long I shall retain hold of this ordinary body depends upon your loyalty and devotion to the lines laid down. Should these fail I go to another field."=20=20 1891, May 8 H P B Dies in London -- Age 60 years Mr. Judge was notified by cable. He sailed from New York May 13th. Before leaving, he sent a return cable: "I am sailing for London. I am her agent. Seal her room."=20=20 It should be noted that Masters' "Seal" was not found in HPB's box when Countess Wachmeister and Annie Besant opened it before Judge arrived in London. [ This "seal" was found used on certain letters sent to various persons after HPB's death. This use of Masters' "seal" was later used by Mrs. Besant as one of the "charges" made against WQJ in the "Judge Case."]=09 LUCIFER, Vol. 16, p. 164-5. =09 1891, May 27 E S Advisory Council Meets - Continuation of E S In London at this E S Council Meeting, Mr. Judge presented his credentials as HPB's "representative with full powers as a chela of thirteen years' standing" (in 1888), and as HPB's sole agent..." Annie Besant presents hers as "Secretary of the Inner Group and Recorder of the Teachings." This appointment of AB was made by HPB in April 1991, less than 6 weeks before her death. Annie Besant had been only 2 years in the TS and in the ES.=20=20 Judge proposes that A B and he work together as "Co-Outer Heads" of the E S in close cooperation. Mrs. Besant goes to her locked desk and brings out a package of letters that she had earlier tied together and which had not been in any one else's hands. From this package, when she opens it, falls a Note written by the Master. It read: "Judge's plan is right." The plan was put into effect. The Esoteric Section was continued with Annie Besant taking charge of the "Eastern area," and Mr. Judge of the "Western." The E S Council disbanded itself and full responsibility for the conduct of the E S was placed on these two who were to conduct it as "co-Outer Heads.". 1891, July 9 Convention of the European Section of the T S Mr. Judge attended as Vice-President, Col. Olcott, PTS, presided. A new, satisfactory Constitution was framed. Amity and an urge to strong and united work were the keynotes struck then. The continuation of the European Section, its neutrality and autonomy, was affirmed. The growth of the work and spread of Theosophy in America was praised.=20=20 Col. Olcott, though not a member of the E S, had been appointed by HPB her "agent for the ES for Asia."=20 Judge and AB advised him in a general way of the program the ES would now be following.=20=20=20 THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875-1950), p. 160 1892, Jan. Col. Olcott Resigns from the Presidency On receipt of a letter from Col. Olcott to this effect, dated Jan 27th 1892, Judge places the matter on the agenda for the Convention of the American Section to be held April 24th. 1892 in Chicago. Resolutions of regret and a resolution urging Col. Olcott to revoke his resignation were passed, as also one, which elected Mr. Judge to the Presidency only upon the actual retirement of Col. Olcott PTS. In the meantime Col. Olcott heard from the Master saying that his resignation was premature. Accordingly, he delayed his resignation taking effect, writing Judge as Vice-President, to this effect on May 28th 1892. A formal letter of revocation was issued by him dated May 25th 1892.=20=20 PATH Vol. 7, p. 235-6;=20=20 THEOSOPHIST, VOL. 13, SUPPLEMENT to SEPT. 1892 July 1892 Mr. Judge had gone to Europe to attend the Convention of the European Section of the T S on July 14th 1892. Earlier Mrs. Besant without consulting Mr. Judge, had inappropriately circulated the E.S. membership in England and Europe to have Mr. Judge elected President. A joint circular adjusting this was issued over both their signatures to those E.S. members after Mr. Judge's arrival there, and after he had convinced her of the injudicious phrasing of the original. The European convention passed a resolution naming Judge President when the resignation of Col. Olcott became effective. When Judge received the news that Olcott was revoking his resignation; he issued a Notice to the American members giving his whole hearted agreement to the change, asserting his pleasure at Col. Olcott's resumption of the burdens of the Presidency. He noted that only when absolutely compelled by necessity would he assume the Presidency.=20=20 Some have looked on this incident as evidence of Mr. Judge's ambition. Such is not the case, as can be ascertained by reading chronologically the documents available. One may wonder how it could be possible for Col. Olcott to have misread Judge's intentions so completely. Mr. Judge's health was poor, and he did not look with any degree of favor on having to go to India to take on the duties the Presidency would impose. He had his particular work in America, and there he preferred to stay where he was most needed. In a letter replying to Dr. F. Hartmann of May 13, 1892, Mr. Judge says: "...For myself I would never wish this office [of President] as it is very troublesome and thankless, but H.P.B...asked me to take it if O. went out or died." [ T. FORUM, Vol. 4, pp. 131-2 ] [Note: Those desiring more details about this matter should=20=09 refer to THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875-1925) pp, 326-350.) 1892, April 24-25 Sixth Annual Convention of the=20 American Section T S=20 In reviewing the year, Mr. Judge quotes extensively from HPB's first "Message" sent to the Convention of 1888. She had passed away May 8th 1891. Her observations and advice about the conduct of the TS in America was continuously and appropriately valid. Her death, far from causing disruption had brought on greater accord and renewed effort.=20=20 Mr. Judge also noted that Col. Olcott, who had tendered his resignation owing to over work, had rescinded it thanks to the efforts made by the American Executive Council through Mr. Bertram Keightley who had gone to India. Aryan T S (New York) purchased 144 Madison Ave for use as American HQ and to be occupied by the Gen. Secy.'s office, Path, and the Aryan Press, it contained also a Hall for lectures.=20=20 Col. Olcott's resignation as President--correspondence sent to all Sections. Vice-President to be appointed. Future assistance to Col. Olcott who will continue to write and work for Theosophy. (A telegram just received from Olcott advises that he cannot resign as of May 1st as projected.) The convention Resolved to ask Col. Olcott to revoke his resignation. Judge to be President only if and when Olcott's Presidential post becomes vacant.=20=20 Work done during the year: 11 new Branches in America chartered during the past year, 392 new members enrolled. All departments of work and propaganda are flourishing: total of 109,000 tracts mailed. New scheme is the supplying to the Press of articles and news briefs on Theosophical matters. Every member should look on himself as a "missionary" and take advantage of the material and services made available: T. Forum, Tracts, Oriental Dept. Translations, Branch Papers, Circulating Library, Path Magazine. Expenses are growing, but donations have also grown and helped defray the increased costs.=20 A "Lecture Bureau" has been opened for funds to take a traveling lecturer to areas where needed. Great energy noted in California. A "Lecturer" chosen to begin work. A minimum of five will constitute a Branch. Below that and it is dissolved. Central League of Theosophical Workers makes a report.=20=20 Resolution reaffirming the neutrality of the TS as regards creeds and beliefs affirmed. Reports and letters from American and foreign Lodges and Sections read.=20=20 1892 July Judge sails for London to attend the Second Annual=20 Convention of the European Section. The European membership elects Judge as President in case Olcott resigns. Judge reported that the American Section had resolved to ask Olcott to rescind his resignation.=20=20 On August 17th 1892 Olcott withdrew his resignation, and remained President till his death in 1907. 1893 April 23-24 Seventh Annual Convention of the=20 American Section held in New York Mr. Judge as Gen. Secy. reported that the Hall of the Aryan TS was not the property of the Section but of the Branch. Fees, rents and dues are all apportioned for payment for the space used by PATH, the offices of the Gen. Secy. and the Aryan Press.=20=20 Annie Besant's lecture tour of the U S was particularly valuable.=20=20 Bertram Keightley welcomed as Gen. Secy. for the Indian Section.=20=20 A Reference Library had been started in the Hall of the Aryan Branch at 144 Madison Ave., there is also the Circulating Library and the Gen. Secretary's library.=20=20 The use of a traveling lecturer has proved most valuable and effective: Mr. Claude F. Wright.=20=20 All the TS property in India has been put in the hands of a Board of Trustees. (Of which Mr. Judge was made one.)=20 The work of the Oriental Department being successfully carried on in Europe.=20 A matter of procedure was redefined so as to avoid any semblance of doctrinal acceptance in regard to a burial service, etc...no officer or committee of the T S ought to appear in print as endorsing any forms.=20=20 19 new Branches were chartered, 584 new members were admitted. About 50 resigned.=20=20 Tracts distributed last year: 90,000. (Total number of tracts mailed since the inception of the scheme: 430,000.) An additional 88,000 tracts were produced and mailed on the West Coast. 1893 April Mr. Judge Seen to be Overshadowed by Master A. W. W. wrote: "I attended the American Theosophical Convention held at New York in 1893. Sitting near the door in the crowded room I had to pay particular attention to speakers at the other end. The subject of the hour was the religious Parliament to be held at the World's Fair [Chicago]. A good deal of enthusiasm prevailed as Mr. Judge was relating what had to be done and speaking of the importance of the matter. I was regarding him very closely and only thinking of what he was talking of. "As he went on I observed a form taking shape near his right shoulder, rather nearer to Mr. Judge than to the chairman, Dr. Buck. This shape became definitely that of a man of impressive appearance. I had seen no pictures of the Masters and could not connect the form with any picture, but I then at once felt it was one of them. Since then I saw the picture of Mahatma K.H. identically that of the being I have described. It is for me proof of the existence of these beings and of their interest in such movements as ours." -- A. W. W. PATH, Vol. X, p. 127, July 1895. 1893, September 15 - 17 Chicago World Fair -- American Section T S Participation in the Parliament of Religions Participation of the TS in this event marked a high point in Mr. Judges' success at organization. Theosophists from India, representing the Hindu Brahmins, from Ceylon, representing the Buddhists and Mrs. Annie Besant from London were feature attractions at the meetings. Mr. Judge, himself gave a landmark speech: Theosophy Generally Stated -- which epitomized all that the T S and Theosophy stood for. JUDGE ARTICLES, Vol. 1, p. 1 (ULT) 1894 - 1896 Mr. Judge Under Attack [ NOTE: One of the most valuable keys to an understanding of Mr. Judge and his work is only obtained by the study of his writings. ] Many persons expressed their opinions concerning him. What happened to him, when placed under pressure, from early 1894 until his death on March 21st l896 ? He continued writing for The Path and elsewhere. Did his expressions, and did the nature of his writings and choice of subjects change? The student of Mr. Judges' life will seek for evidence in this area, to verify the statement : that he did not change his objective or his method of writing at all.=20=20 He answered such charges as were leveled at him clearly, factually and without acrimony, as will be found by those who read all the documents that are available.=20=20 Such documentary evidence forms the basis for the book that covers 75 years of the history of the modern Theosophical Movement, from 1875 to 1950 under the title: The Theosophical Movement--1875-1950. Published in 1951 by associates of the ULT at the Cunningham Press, Los Angeles. [ This book condenses the material offered 25 years earlier, in the volume of similar title and adds comments on the period between 1925 and 1950.] The Theosophy Company in Los Angeles published in January 1992 a 53 page booklet in which is reproduced Two Answers by W.Q.Judge. In these he deals fully with such "charges" as were leveled at him. They explain and solve the mysteries involved.=20 [ a summary follows ] As in all biographical writings, after the death of the individuals concerned, we are left to consider the documents that survive. The writer will have to offer his readers the opportunity of seeing the facts, and considering whether the opinions that arose during that time, and which, to some extent, still color the minds of s modern members of the surviving remnants of the original Theosophical Society of 1875 are reasonable. One might almost say that we are all burdened with "traditions" handed down to us. It is necessary for each to independently verify these. If Mr. Judge's work is incorrectly valued, there will inevitably be a gap in understanding the practical application of Theosophical doctrine in active life. In surveying the incidents that culminated in the "Judge Case," and which sharply divided organizationally the Theosophical Society it would seem to be fair to say the following: Theosophy can be divided into two broad aspects: 1. That which could be called exoteric Theosophy, covering historical narration, the modern investigation of the invisible side of Nature -- energy, power, psychism, "spiritual-ism," the invisible but potent beings that live in and on the "astral-psychic" plane--and the relations of these with the visible, tangible, physical nature we deal with daily. This is the informational and intellectual aspect of Theosophy. One might call it "head-learning" borrowing the phrase from The Voice of the Silence. But, a deeper side can also be detected : 2. The 2nd aspect which could be called Esoteric. It has been called : The Heart Doctrine. It takes a studied look at the potential goals of evolution. It looks at the "universal" and "philosophical," or metaphysical side of the Universe.=20=20 It concerns itself with the moral and the ethical side of living, and considers that the Law of Karma operates incessantly. Therefore, it operates through all those correlations that the first aspect describes. It looks at these from our "outside world" of daily observation, which does not always take the long-range effect of man's thoughts and feelings into account.=20=20 It is spiritual in the truest of senses, hence moral and ethical above all else. [Ethics and morals, Theosophically, can be defined as voluntary thoughts and acts in compliance with the Universal Law of Karmic action]. It deals with the progress and the potential goal of the individual, considering him as a moral entity, and employing the whole range of Nature's Laws as the ethical and ever interactive framework in which we all live. In this it views the World as a school in which more advanced students guide and assist their younger brothers, but, occultly, they are debarred from enforcing their views. The self-development of every free-willed human Soul-ego is a primary law of progress. It is difficult for some to see both of these views, and the interdependence and interplay that exists between "historical" events which involve the "Esoteric relations," (by definition) with the exoteric T S. In other words, what may happen, as an event in either of these two Sections, is not necessarily a matter of consideration in the other, because of the pledge of secrecy which forms a vital part of the occult system of discipline that such members have assumed. Given this as a fact, it becomes easier to understand the "Judge Case." HPB and WQJ acted as agents in the world for the Masters. They were independent of that world and of the Exoteric Theosophical Society--a position that members of the T S found difficult to understand.=20=20 They used the Theosophical Society as the best tool available for the spreading of the philosophy of Theosophy. They were not interested in the organizational operations of the=20 T S except as a useful framework through which great ideas and principles could be publicized, and their value made visible.=20=20 Some others, who became deeply involved in the Organization, its management, politics and the "offices," have believed, that the organization was "Theosophy."=20=20 Many there are who find it difficult to distinguish Masters' and HPB's Theosophy from that which later students have presented and may have proclaimed to be "later teachings of "Theosophy." Many are eclectic, broad, tolerant, compassionate of others views, ecologically sensitive, and interested in those aspects of knowledge that modern education, science and religion had kept them from learning the inner ethico-spiritual correlations of; but, they were, and are, in many cases, nondiscriminative. A "foundation" in one's self of a knowledge of Theosophical facts, laws and logic needs first to be developed, by careful study. The spiritual is intolerant of anything but the truth, the honesty, and the ethical-moral applications of Universal Law to all aspects of life. The Adepts and their disciples live in a "fish-bowl" where their innermost motives, and thought-feelings are transparent to the vision of their Teachers and Companions. This is a vital part of the training implied by the purification of the lower nature, and the impersonalizing and universalizing of the attitude toward others. To become a successful occultist, one becomes an impersonal force in Nature for the good of the Whole. All selfishness has to be eliminated. Doubts and suspicions arose in the mind of some of the early "Theosophists," who noted that messages from the Masters were not always tactful nor were they tolerant of abuses of ethical and occult duties and responsibilities. A case of this nature revolves around Masters' "Prayag Letter" (see MAHATMA LETTERS, p.461-463) delivered to Mr. Sonnet by HPB to be passed to the Prayag TS ( it is an excoriating indictment of the Brahmins in Allahabad (Prayag) for their errors ). Col. Olcott may have been fearful that the Brahmins, if antagonized, might withdraw their support from the TS in India, thus damaging its "success." Mr. Sonnet began to have some doubts of HPB's honesty and integrity, in the matter of "phenomena" and the "Mahatma letters"--which he had always desired to receive direct, and not through any agency. He could not understand the occult law that required the agent to always serve as transferor of the Teachers' instructions to the student. There may have been a certain amount of envy involved--that one should be able, and others not, to establish such a direct relationship ! [see ISIS, Vol. II, p. 93.] Doubts and suspicions first circulated as gossip, and curiosity, speculations, etc., began undermining the trust in HPB and in Judge, that a number of persons connected with the TS gave in those days. Further, the method of writing, recording, and of delivery of such "messages" was sadly deficient of "purity" from the physical point of view -- some were delivered inside sealed personal letters. HPB, Judge and other "occultists" always claimed that any true "message" carried an innate, inherent proof of their validity, to which the sensitivity and recognition of the recipient was all the proof of authenticity that was needed. This was not provable to anyone who was not also an occultist, and in many cases, not even by the ultimate recipient. [HPB and WQJ both wrote several articles which explain the laws, rationale and method of "precipitation." [ a list is attached and some pertinent extracts given.] With the death of HPB, Col. Olcott among others, hoped that such mythic affairs as "messages from the Masters" concerning the conduct of affairs in the T S would cease. They did not. Judge now became the focus for such, although he disclaimed any attempt at mystification or the "guidance" of others. A simmering resentment and enmity seems to have gradually arisen in some members, because of their personal constitution. The "occult" laws and life, are one thing, and ordinary explanations can not dispel doubts and suspicions that a materialistic culture, and a disbelief in the astral and the invisible side of Nature supported. Among others, Judge passed on messages he had been asked to give to Annie Besant, to Col. Olcott, to Mr. Sinnett, and to others. Some messages appeared in letters that he wrote to others, apparently without his knowledge while they were in transit. Dr. Buck, Jasper Niemand and Bertram Keightley also acknowledged receipt of communications from the Masters through his agency, near or remote. It was a puzzle. It was also proving embarrassing to those who desired to shine as 'authorities' in the TS, now that HPB and the power of her knowledge was "gone." Apparently, several such disgruntled persons got together in India late in December 1893 (in violation of the rule against "gossip" and the first Object: Brotherhood), to discuss this. Annie Besant, saying she was acting in the best interests of Mr. Judge, by making public the "rumors" (said to be secretly circulating about him in the Society), lent her name to "charges," which once decided on, she felt would "clear the air.".=20=20 1894 February 6 Annie Besant in a letter dated February 6th 1894 from Allahabad, addressed Col. Olcott, P.T.S.:=20=20 "Some little time ago an appeal was made to me by members of the T.S. belonging to different Branches, to set their minds at rest as to the accusations made against the Vice-President of the Society, Bro. W. Q. Judge, with reference to certain letters and sentences in the alleged writings of the Mahatmas. As it is to the detriment of the whole Society that these accusations--believed to be true by reputable members of the Society--should be circulated against a prominent official without rebuttal and without investigations, I ask you, as the President of the Society, to direct that the charges made shall be formulated and laid before a Committee, as provided by Art. VI, Secs. 2, 3 and 4." 1894 February 7 Col. Olcott sends a copy of this letter officially to Mr. Judge as Vice-President. In this he offers two options: to resign, or to stand before a "Judicial Committee" to be convened in London, thus making public the whole proceedings. He suggested a cabled answer. Judge cabled: "Charges absolutely false. You can take what proceedings you see fit; going to London July." Note: Surprisingly, Col. Olcott PTS, allowed this to develop, endorsed it, and proposed to Judge (as though he was already proven guilty) that he resign or stand trial--completely forgetting that he was in violation of the Rules of the TS:=20=20 1) that Annie Besant, a member, could not prefer "charges" against another member who was not in her Branch, (where, alone, a member could be so charged); and,=20=20 2) that everyone is presumed innocent until proved guilty.=20=20 3) Later, a third un-brotherly, not to say illegal situation arose--a concerted but obvious attempt by several persons involved to withhold from Mr. Judge's hands and sight the so-called "evidence."=20=20 One may only conclude that the delusion which swept Annie Besant's rational mind aside, in turn...deeply influenced the others. 1894 March 15 Mr. Judge rejected the charges, and made public the accusation, the charges and the situation to the membership, distributing on March 15th 1894 5,000 copies of his: "To the Members of the T.S."=20 [ Reprinted in Two Replies by W.Q.Judge - Theosophy Company ] 1894 March 27 On March 27th 1894, G.R.S.Meade, General Secretary, European Section TS, and Mr. Bertram Keightley, General Secretary, Indian Section TS issued a joint letter dated March 27th 1894 to Col. Olcott PTS protesting his precipitate action as it was in violation of the Rules of the T S. Mr. Judge exposes thereby an active "plot" to deflect or to truncate the power of the T S to change "the Manas and the Buddhi of the race." Annie Besant seems to have been selected. A brahmin delegate to the Parliament of Religions (Sept. 15-17, 1893) named G. N. Chakravarti lent his agency as instrument for this. Mrs. Besant was known from the beginning by HPB to be "all intellect...not psychic or spiritual" in her psycho-logical makeup.=20=20 ( HPB letter, Mar. 27 1891) Mrs. Besant desired ardently to develop "psychic and spiritual powers" of her own, so that she would be able to contact the Masters directly. Chakravarti seems to have promised this, if she placed herself under his instruction. In less than two months he attained mesmeric ascendancy over her. Dr. Archibald Keightley observed this. (see The Path, Vol. 10, p. 99-100, where he made an observation on this fact in the course of a protest he wrote, in defense of Mr. Judge.) 1894, April 22-23 Eighth Annual Convention of the American=20 Section of the T S , San Francisco Mr. Judge as the Genl. Secy. reported that the 2nd series of seven year cycles began with this year for the American Section. It also marked the 19th year of the Theosophical Society. In the past year the Parliament of Religions in Chicago had marked the highlight of work. Acting as Vice-President, Judge represented the far away Olcott. Judge issued a report on the T S participation.=20=20 Work at the New York HQ increased and is strongly supported. Judge pays rent for the activities of which he is the proprietor: The Path, The Aryan Press, and the Theosophical book business -- it would be advantageous to have the mortgage on the building reduced. Much more has been paid out to support the work than is collected by way of dues. Voluntary contributions were asked for. As usual a full accounting for all funds was given. Three traveling lecturers were working in the field. 20,000 new tracts printed in the last year. Also pamphlets, Theosophical Forum, Branch Papers, and the Oriental Department Papers are issued. Annual meeting Dec. 27th 1893 in Adyar, Col. Olcott reported on the success of the TS: 322 Branches. Constitution revised, fixing the term for the president at 7 years. Continuity remains the same as before. In America 14 new Branches were chartered this year, and 655 new members admitted. Latest activity is a Correspondence Class. It has 231 members. List of questions on Theosophical subjects are issued in writing. Answers are studied in the office, marked and returned to the answerer. This idea has been well received in Europe. Boston Branch bought a house to use as HQ. Countess Wachmeister, representative of the Indian Section, gave an address in which she suggested that the HQ for the Society be removed from distant Adyar to a more convenient location in Europe or the Western part of America. Reports and messages from Sections and Branches read and noted.=20=20 1894 June In "The T.S. and its Basis" Mr. Judge wrote: "As one of those who helped to form the T. S., I may claim to speak with personal knowledge of the facts, and having worked in its ranks ever since its first day, a few words respecting its basis and spirit will be of use...( on autonomy, toleration, 3 objects...). The main underlying effort of the work of the members of the Society should be to furnish a real and philosophical basis for ethics...a reasonable explanation for life." Austral Theosophist, June 1894 --=20=20 WQJ Art. Vol. II, p. 156 1894 July 7 A meeting of the General Council of the T S under Col. Olcott is convened in London. As he was warned earlier by Mr. Judge, the Council finds it has no right to make a dogmatic statement on the existence of the Mahatmas (and/or their "messages"). Judge, who stated and proved that he, acting as vice-President, had taken no actions that were illegal, is reconfirmed as Vice-President.=20=20 Olcott makes a statement concerning the Neutrality of the TS in matters of personal belief.=20=20 Judge offers to produce evidence for those who desire to see it. He objects strongly to the fact, that although "accused" no actual charges or evidence has been made available to him prior to the meeting, and, in addition, he has been prevented from seeing any of the "evidence."=20=20 Dr. J.D.Buck, Vice-President of the American Section, was the only official of the American Section to accompany Mr. Judge to London, he was a witness, along with others, such as Dr. Archibald Keightley and Mr. Pryse to all the proceedings, including the fact that Mr. Judge had to force Mrs. Annie Besant and Col. Olcott at the last moment just prior to their departure on July 19th, to briefly show him some of the "evidence" before Olcott left for India. Mr. Judge was given no time to make copies of the longer pieces of so-called evidence. Lucifer, Path and Theosophist carry the details of these events. A summary will be found in The Theosophical Movement (1875-1950) pp. 204 - 250 based on those documents.) 1894 July 10 The Judicial Committee meets.=20=20 No "evidence" is produced. Judge protests this again. Judge offers to stand trial. The Committee refuses. The "Neutrality" of the TS is reaffirmed by Olcott. Unfortunately while the "charges" had been met on legal grounds and disposed of, personal feelings were running high, in a most un-theosophical, un-brotherly and intolerant fashion.=20=20 1894 September Mr. W.R.Old, Treasurer and Recording Secretary of the TS resigned, dissatisfied. He was also a member of the E S, and as he had been entrusted with the "evidence" of the "Judge Case" by Col. Olcott. Without authorization, he made copies of that, and passed these to Mr. Garrett of the Westminster Gazette in London for publication. This created a fresh furore, and as a result Judge's enemies resumed the campaign to cause him to resign the Vice-Presidency. This campaign was almost solely confined to Europe, America had little interest in the matter. Charges and counter charges, flourished and "the clash of opinions" resounded. Anger and resentment were again whipped up against Mr. Judge by the original "conspirators." Renewed calls and "resolutions" passed by Branches in Europe and India for his "resignation" were again published. All this severely weakened Mr. Judge's precarious health. 1894, Nov. 3rd E S Circular Issued by Mr. Judge [ NOTE ]=20 1. In the ES circular of Nov. 3rd 1894, WQJ refers to A. Besant's knowledge of Master speaking to her through him while he was conscious. 2. She is also aware of the Master's picture given by Him to WQJ endorsing it to: "My Colleague, W. Q. Judge." 1895 Additional Testimonials, are most probably related=20 to Mr. Judge, although he is not named.=20 "At a lecture being delivered by a prominent Theosophist I saw the Master's form overshadowing the speaker, and with so strong an influence that it seemed to change the appearance of the speaker. There is no doubt in my mind as to this event. I was in all my senses and not excited." -- A. B. C. Path, Vol. X, p. 44, May 1895 1895 January A. Fullerton stated : In January 1895, Mr. Alexander Fullerton published a circular, sent to members all over the world. Therein he stated he had a message from the Mahatma, through another person in whom he had perfect confidence, relating to the difficulties in the T.S. As testimony, this is only the testimony of the transmitter. Path, Vol. X, p. 44 May 1895 1895, April 28-29 9th Annual Convention of the American=20 Section T S ( in Boston) and of=20 The First Convention of the Theosophical Society in America. =20 At this convention the delegates from the various branches of the T S in America, with almost entire unanimity reorganized themselves. The vote was a majority of 190 against 9.=20 The Theosophical Movement (1875-1950), p. 250 Following this, a large number of Branches in England followed suit. Some Lodges and individuals in Europe and in Australia withdrew from affiliation with the T S at a later date and reaffiliated themselves with the new Society in America, of which Mr. Judge was elected President for life. Work Done These reports, (starting in 1886 with 12 Branches and a total of 264 members) summarized important events and the continuous work of promulgation that was sustained through those years. By April 1895 the Society had 102 active Branches in America, and numbered over 3,700 members, over 475,000 Theosophical Tracts had been mailed (as a total for 10 years). 1895 July 4 Mr. Judge, as President of the newly constituted Theosophical Society in America sent a letter of greetings to the July 4th 1895 Convention of the European Section of the T S, which was presided over by Col. Olcott PTS. Olcott called the letter discourteous and refused to read it to the assembly. Debate ensued, but at the suggestion of Mrs. Besant the letter was "laid on the table" without further comment. Theos Mvt.(1875-1950) 253 In this letter, Mr. Judge said on behalf of the T S in America : "The Theosophical Movement, which began far back in the night of Time and has since been moving through many and various peoples, places and environments...does not depend upon forms ceremonies, particular persons or set organizations...organizations of theosophists must change in accordance with place, time, exigency and people. To hold that in and by a sole organization for the whole world is the only way to work would be boyish in conception and not in accord with experience of natures' laws...we come to you as fellow-students and workers [in the field assigned to us by Karma]...of Theosophical effort, and holding out the hand of fellowship we again declare the complete unity of all theosophical workers in every part of the world... Let us then press forward together in the great work of the real Theosophical Movement which is aided by working organizations, but is above them all...Mutually assisting and encouraging one another we may learn how to put Theosophy into practice so as to be able to teach and enforce it by example before others. We will then each and all be members of that Universal Lodge of Free and Independent Theosophists which embraces every friend of the human race..."=20=20 Fraternally yours, William Q. Judge, President. 1895 Judge's Bodily Illness Increases The Chagres fever which Mr. Judge had contracted during his trips to Central and South America earlier in life had a debilitating effect, later tuberculosis is said to have set in. He was hardly able to speak above a whisper; and yet his indomitable will sustained his body in spite of its agony. The concentrated enmity of some of his former coworkers added greatly to the depletion of his already critically low physical strength. Early in 1895 he spent some time with Mrs. Katherine Tingly and others in Mineral Wells, Texas, where she had rented a house and where she was of great help to him. He returned to New York sufficiently improved to direct preparations for the Boston Convention (April 1895). October 1895 saw him ill again. He made a trip to Asheville, North Carolina in search of warmth, but finding no relief there, returned to New York in mid January 1896. On the way, he passed two weeks with Dr. Buck in Cincinnati and another week with Dr. Buchman in Fort Wayne, Indiana.=20 1896, March 21st Death of Mr. Judge's Body Mr. Judge was sitting upright on a sofa in the company of Mrs. Judge, Mr. E. T. Hargrove and a nurse. His body died at around 9.00 a.m. Some of his last words were: "There Must be Calmness. Hold Fast. Go Slow." March 23rd 1896 Cremation on Long Island Testimonials to Mr. Judge were received from his close friends, and others who had been influenced by his example. These have been recorded in The Path magazine, renamed by him: Theosophy. They have been collected and reprinted at the back of the Theosophy Company edition of Letters That Have Helped Me, published in Los Angeles. (see extracts given below) -----Original Message----- From: Katinka Hesselink [mailto:mail@katinkahesselink.net] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 5:42 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Re: SOME THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY (3 series of articles) Hi all, Though the material offered here is of value in studying theosophical history, it is far from impartial. It defends W.Q. Judge at the expense of Annie Besant consistently. Unfortunately not many of Annie Besant's friends have taken it upon themselves to defend her, but that does not mean that Judge was guiltless. Nor does it mean that the TS is supposed to be the Blavatsky and Judge admiration society that one might think it ought to be after reading the below (if one can get through it - personally I could not get through the book based on this, but I read enough to feel I should say this.) A good biography of Besant has yet to be written, I think (if somebody knows one, I would be very grateful). This should include the Judge affair, the Krishnamurti controversy, the Wadia-story etc. Perhaps a book on that part of theosophical history, from a more impartial perspective than 'The Theosophical Movement' should be written. Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Compiler wrote: > I hope that many readers, especially > newcomers to theosophy, will find these > three series of articles from THEOSOPHY > magazine to be very informative and useful: > > (1) The Theosophical Movement (34-part series: 1920-22) > (2) The Rising Cycle (13-part series: 1926-27) > (3) Aftermath (10-part series: 1935) > > They are found in this link that goes to the > 14th of 18 sections found on the "Additional" > articles index page of my WisdomWorld.org web site: > http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#14 > > Dear newcomers to Theosophy: > > I sincerely do hope that my web site offers > a well-rounded overall view of Theosophy and > the Theosophical Movement. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 01 21:23:00 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42066 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 04:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.130) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:23:00 -0000 Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8245Bu13339 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool1164.cvx16-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.54.144] helo=DALLAS) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19u2OM-0001oi-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:03:43 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World W. Scott Elliott Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c37107$15494920$9036b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F538EBE.C1FD06F6@wxs.nl> From: "W. Dallas TenBreock" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 9 - 1- 2003 Sorry I cannot help in this I don't have those items and also I don't have any good suggestions. H P B mentions Ignatius Donnelly's ATLANTIS -- THE ANTEDILUVIAN WORLD several times in the S D; also, the charts made by S S CHALLENGER of the mid-Atlantic ridge. In a recent issue of the AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST mention was made of discoveries of ancient coins of Mediterranean issue found in the Eastern U S . Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Theo Paijmans [mailto:th.paijmans@wxs.nl]=20 Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:24 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World W. Scott Elliott Dear all, I am desperately looking for: a) a picture of W. Scott Elliott, the writer of The History Of Atlantis b) a reliable biography Somehow, there is no information on him to be found anywhere. Your time and patience are greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Theo Paijmans =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From listmail@theosophist.org Tue Sep 02 11:00:30 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: listmail@theosophist.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88727 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host.theosophist.org) (64.191.67.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0000 Received: from [167.167.187.206] (helo=scribe) by host.theosophist.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19uFat-0000w8-Pw for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:09:31 -0400 To: Subject: virus warning Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:57:00 -0700 Message-ID: <00a301c3717b$9f284b40$cebba7a7@scribe> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.theosophist.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - theosophist.org From: "Eldon B tucker" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=141100620 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone seems to be sending out virus-infected messages and forging the "From:" line of the message header to say that the message is from theos-talk@thesoophy.com, theos-talk-digest@theosophy.com, and review@theosophy.com. (For several years, the theos-talk mailing list has not allowed attachments so that people could not accidentally send viruses though it.) The messages seem to be originating from a computer with IP of 193.251.178.97, which I cannot fully trace, although it goes through Paris.FranceTelecom.Net and belongs to a group of IP's that seem to come under Aubervilliers.FranceTelecom.Net. I think the person's computer is currently infected and sending out virus-infected messages to every address in its address book, so the person may be a current or former subscriber of this list. If anyone knows who this person may be, it'll be helpful if they were contacted. This situation brings up again the importance of everyone having the latest antivirus software and keeping one's antivirus definitions up to date. -- Eldon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Sep 02 11:55:50 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98986 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 18:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 18:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.12) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 18:55:50 -0000 Received: from pool0377.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.227.122] helo=DALLAS) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19uGJa-0001dS-00; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:55:42 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World virus warning Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c37183$c3062480$7ae3b3d1@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00a301c3717b$9f284b40$cebba7a7@scribe> From: "W. Dallas TenBreock" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Thanks Eldon Not recognized Done Dal =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Eldon B tucker [mailto:listmail@theosophist.org]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:57 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World virus warning Someone seems to be sending out virus-infected messages and forging the "From:" line of the message header to say that the message is from theos-talk@thesoophy.com, theos-talk-digest@theosophy.com, and review@theosophy.com. (For several years, the theos-talk mailing list has not allowed attachments so that people could not accidentally send viruses though it.) =20 The messages seem to be originating from a computer with IP of 193.251.178.97, which I cannot fully trace, although it goes through Paris.FranceTelecom.Net and belongs to a group of IP's that seem to come under Aubervilliers.FranceTelecom.Net. =20 I think the person's computer is currently infected and sending out virus-infected messages to every address in its address book, so the person may be a current or former subscriber of this list. =20 If anyone knows who this person may be, it'll be helpful if they were contacted. =20 This situation brings up again the importance of everyone having the latest antivirus software and keeping one's antivirus definitions up to date. =20 -- Eldon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 From samblo@cs.com Tue Sep 02 13:40:46 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81120 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 20:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 20:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r08.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.104) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 20:40:42 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.1c3.e6c96b0 (2168) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1c3.e6c96b0.2c8658ec@cs.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:34:52 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World virus warning To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 From: samblo@cs.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Dallas and Eldon, Here are Data on Query I made: Search results for: 193.251.178.97>*-ARIN OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre OrgID: RIPE Address: Singel 258 Address: 1016 AB City: Amsterdam StateProv: PostalCode: Country: NL ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net NetRange: 193.0.0.0 - 193.255.255.255 CIDR: 193.0.0.0/8 NetName: RIPE-CBLK NetHandle: NET-193-0-0-0-1 Parent: NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC NameServer: NS.RIPE.NET NameServer: NS2.NIC.FR NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE NameServer: AUTH03.NS.UU.NET NameServer: MUNNARI.OZ.AU NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois RegDate: 1992-08-12 Updated: 2003-04-25 OrgTechHandle: RIPE-NCC-ARIN OrgTechName: RIPE NCC Hostmaster OrgTechPhone: +31 20 535 4444 OrgTechEmail: search-ripe-ncc-not-arin@ripe.net # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-09-01 19:15 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. If contact information is out of date or incorrect, please contact hostmaster@arin.net. Include all relevant information in your e-mail and ARIN will investigate the matter. John From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Sep 02 13:56:19 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49530 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 20:56:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 20:56:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 20:56:18 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.b7.35cc4140 (4214) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:42:44 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World virus warning To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162 X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano One of the reasons I never use an address book. That way what lands here (gods forbid!) stays here. Chuck From samblo@cs.com Tue Sep 02 13:56:36 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29203 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 20:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 20:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r06.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.102) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 20:56:32 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.127.303def9c (2168) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <127.303def9c.2c865dcc@cs.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:55:40 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World virus warning To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 From: samblo@cs.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Dallas and Eldon, I forgot to include the Decimal conversion address of the IP Number 193.251.178.97 which is: http://3254497889 John From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Sep 02 15:01:23 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23412 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 22:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2003 22:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r05.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.101) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 22:01:07 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.1e2.f4fd008 (3842) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e2.f4fd008.2c866c51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:57:37 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World virus warning To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 From: leonmaurer@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 The following information may be pertinent to the virus problem reported by= =20 Eldon. (I wrote this a week ago to everyone on my mail list who might receive an=20 attachment from me or any other friend.) There is a mean virus/worm going around that affects Windows machines and=20 captures your mailing lists to send out replicas of itself using your and y= our=20 friends return addresses. So please do not download any attachment that en= ds=20 with the extension .pif or .scr in letters that appear to come from me or a= ny=20 other friends. The worm already took my name off somebody's list and the w= orm=20 is circulating all over the world with my return address on it. So, be=20 careful. (Any other safe download files that come from me will always be a= ccompanied=20 by a personal note.) The following is information on this virus offered by AOL: The "Sobig" worm, also known as=A0W32.Sobig.f@mm,=A0is a=A0malicious progra= m=20 circulating on the Internet. If your computer becomes infected with the wor= m,=A0an=20 unauthorized person=A0can remotely download and run programs on your comput= er,=20 stealing confidential information from you, or use your computer to send sp= am.=20 What's happening now? Security experts have just determined that the Sobig.f worm is designed to= =20 wake up at 3 p.m. ET on Fridays and maybe also on=A0Sundays and download an= =20 unknown=A0program to=A0an infected computer. The program could be something= =A0malicious or=20 it could be something benign. Can this happen to me? Yes, if you use Windows and are infected with the worm. The worm can=A0infe= ct=20 Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, and XP.=A0Macintosh=A0operating systems are=20 unaffected by this worm.=A0 How Can I=A0Protect Myself? 1. Be careful and don't get infected with the worm. Don't download any=A0e-= mail=20 attachments, even from people you know,=A0with any of the following subject= =20 lines: =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: Details =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: Approved =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: Re: My details! =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: Thank you! =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: That movie =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re: Wicked screensaver =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Re:=A0Your application =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Thank you =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 Your details The e-mail attachment=A0might have one of the following names: =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 your_document.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 document_all.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 thank_you.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 your_details.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 document_9446.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 application.pif =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 wicked_scr.scr =A0=A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0 movie0045.pif For more information, go to: http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,84= 214 ,00.html From mhart@idirect.ca Tue Sep 02 18:07:55 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88175 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 01:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2003 01:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gatekeeper.look.ca) (207.136.80.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 01:07:53 -0000 Received: from on-osh-ap3-09-39.look.ca ([216.154.46.182] helo=idirect.ca) by gatekeeper.look.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19uM7i-00063n-A8 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:07:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3F554271.7070001@idirect.ca> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:22:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@yahoogroups.com" X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Subject: re Masters/Theosophy after HPB's passing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.1 required=6.5 tests=USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,USER_IN_WHITELIST,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.0 (built Mon Jun 2 17:21:47 GMT 2003) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes From: Mauri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584 X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn re Masters/Theosophy after HPB's passing Some excerpts from "H.P. Blavatsky As I Knew Her" by A.L. Cleather: <> From leonmaurer@aol.com Wed Sep 03 00:40:46 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71675 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 07:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2003 07:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r05.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.101) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 07:40:45 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 6.136.23d9a8f7 (4238); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <136.23d9a8f7.2c86f3e0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:36:00 EDT Subject: Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 From: leonmaurer@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: Taoism: Shit happens! Confucianism: Confusius say, "Shit happens!" Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work hard enough! Buddhism: If shit happens, it really isn't shit!. Seventh Day Adventist: No shit on Saturdays.... . Zen: What is the sound of shit happening? Hedonism: There's nothing like a good shit happening!. Hinduism: This shit has happened before. Mormonism: This shit is going to happen again. Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah. Moonies: Only happy shit really happens. Stoicism: This shit is good for me. Protestantism: Let the shit happen to someone else. Catholicism: Shit happens because you are bad. Hare Krishna: Shit happens -- rama rama. Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us? Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half the time. Christian Science: Shit is in your mind. Existentialism: What is shit anyway? Atheism: No shit! Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit! Instant Karma From global-theosophy@adslhome.dk Wed Sep 03 02:58:12 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@adslhome.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36647 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 09:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2003 09:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pfepa.post.tele.dk) (193.162.153.2) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 09:58:11 -0000 Received: from khidr (0x50a12f80.arcnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.161.47.128]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B18814800C4 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:57:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004001c37200$e58d1220$802fa150@opasia.dk> To: References: <136.23d9a8f7.2c86f3e0@aol.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:51:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=106996622 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 HI Leon and all of you, My views are: Thanks ! And Sufism says: You can have many assumptions about shit, but is that the same as Knowledge ? Or... Do we WANT shit or is it a spiritual NEED ? Big smiles... from M. Sufilight with peace and love...and some laughing rugrats... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:36 AM Subject: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: > A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: > > > Taoism: Shit happens! > > Confucianism: Confusius say, "Shit happens!" > > Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work hard enough! > > Buddhism: If shit happens, it really isn't shit!. > > Seventh Day Adventist: No shit on Saturdays.... > . > Zen: What is the sound of shit happening? > > Hedonism: There's nothing like a good shit happening!. > > Hinduism: This shit has happened before. > > Mormonism: This shit is going to happen again. > > Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah. > > Moonies: Only happy shit really happens. > > Stoicism: This shit is good for me. > > Protestantism: Let the shit happen to someone else. > > Catholicism: Shit happens because you are bad. > > Hare Krishna: Shit happens -- rama rama. > > Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us? > > Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half the time. > > Christian Science: Shit is in your mind. > > Existentialism: What is shit anyway? > > Atheism: No shit! > > > Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit! > > Instant Karma > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bartl@sprynet.com Wed Sep 03 16:02:40 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21477 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2003 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from nycmny1-ar7-4-3-085-181.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.3.85.181] helo=sprynet.com) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19uge2-0005ah-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:02:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3F567309.9000106@sprynet.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:02:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World virus warning References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Virii go for addresses in your folders (even trash), cached web sites, etc. Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > One of the reasons I never use an address book. > > That way what lands here (gods forbid!) stays here. From leonmaurer@aol.com Wed Sep 03 19:53:34 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63997 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 02:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2003 02:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r07.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.103) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 02:53:29 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id r.17f.2004d713 (30960) for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17f.2004d713.2c880305@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:52:53 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 45 From: leonmaurer@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 In a message dated 09/03/03 6:00:40 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk writes: >Do we WANT shit or is it a spiritual NEED ? Shit or no shit comes with the karma. So, it's up to each of us whatever we get. In any event, for those of us who are religious Theosophists, Sufi's, Buddhists, Taoists or Kabbalists, it should be a lesson learned. Therefore, when shit happens, we have to learn to relax and welcome it while it lasts -- and then, change the way we think and act, so it won't happen again. :-) Best wishes, Leon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:36 AM Subject: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: > A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: > > > Taoism: Shit happens! > > Confucianism: Confusius say, "Shit happens!" > > Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work hard enough! > > Buddhism: If shit happens, it really isn't shit!. > > Seventh Day Adventist: No shit on Saturdays.... > . > Zen: What is the sound of shit happening? > > Hedonism: There's nothing like a good shit happening!. > > Hinduism: This shit has happened before. > > Mormonism: This shit is going to happen again. > > Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah. > > Moonies: Only happy shit really happens. > > Stoicism: This shit is good for me. > > Protestantism: Let the shit happen to someone else. > > Catholicism: Shit happens because you are bad. > > Hare Krishna: Shit happens -- rama rama. > > Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us? > > Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half the time. > > Christian Science: Shit is in your mind. > > Existentialism: What is shit anyway? > > Atheism: No shit! > > > Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit! > > Instant Karma > From alpha@dircon.co.uk Thu Sep 04 02:50:26 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: alpha@dircon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56111 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 09:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2003 09:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost2.dircon.co.uk) (194.112.32.66) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 09:50:25 -0000 Received: from default (th-en135-007.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.54.7]) by mailhost2.dircon.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id CAAC26588C for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:50:16 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:53:53 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <17f.2004d713.2c880305@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Tony" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=42271540 X-Yahoo-Profile: univ7x7 <<>> Hence, Koot Hoomi writes: "I hope these disjointed reflections and explanations may be pardoned in one, who, remained for over nine days in his stirrups without dismounting." (At the end of Letter 49 - 2nd ed.) Tony -----Original Message----- From: leonmaurer@aol.com [mailto:leonmaurer@aol.com] Sent: 4 September 2003 3:53 am To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: A Short Guide to Comparative Religions: In a message dated 09/03/03 6:00:40 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk writes: >Do we WANT shit or is it a spiritual NEED ? Shit or no shit comes with the karma. So, it's up to each of us whatever we get. In any event, for those of us who are religious Theosophists, Sufi's, Buddhists, Taoists or Kabbalists, it should be a lesson learned. Therefore, when shit happens, we have to learn to relax and welcome it while it lasts -- and then, change the way we think and act, so it won't happen again. :-) Best wishes, Leon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: From dhyana@web.de Thu Sep 04 12:40:07 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59084 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 19:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2003 19:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 19:40:05 -0000 Received: from computer (cppp-247.blinx.de [62.96.222.247]) by mail.blinx.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/SuSE Linux 0.6) with SMTP id h84JcanQ021451 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:38:44 +0200 Message-ID: <013801c3731c$2b96d690$f7de603e@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: The Besant conspiracy Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:36:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-20.2 required=8.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,GROUPS_YAHOO_1, ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,REFERENCES autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS - amavis-milter (http://www.amavis.org/) X-eGroups-From: "Frank Reitemeyer" From: "Frank Reitemeyer" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84373886 X-Yahoo-Profile: santana01de Why Annie's friends did not defend her? Because they stand true to the Original Program of the TS and opposed her black magic which she began in 1893 with the help of the Brahmans (Jesuits of the East) and the Jewish Freemanons of Paris (Jesuits of the West). Annie's old friends voted by feet and left the new Jesuitic body under her direction. Among them William Kingsland, G. R. S. Mead, Bhagavan Das, Rudolf Steiner. So if there still remains soemthing now in defense of Annie - why does that fanatic sect not open the archives? What do they fear? Obviously, they have enough reason to hide the truth and that is the reason why the present black magic successor of Annie's black magic Pope seat has nothing more to offer to her likewise blind and fanatic membership than: "think positive!" (And "positive" in that devilish Jewish-Masonic jargon means: Cant, or destroy the TRUTH). That is why that pseudo & anti-theosophical crowd is so happy: They are, like Annie, in perfect harmony - with their own animal soul (not with the eternal). I do the wrong, and first begin to brawl - the secret mischiefs that I set abroach I lay into the grievous charge of others. And thus I cloth my naked villainy with old odd ends stol'n out of holy writ; and seem a saint when most I play the devil. (King Richard III, Shakespeare) Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katinka Hesselink" To: Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: SOME THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY (3 series of articles) Hi all, Though the material offered here is of value in studying theosophical history, it is far from impartial. It defends W.Q. Judge at the expense of Annie Besant consistently. Unfortunately not many of Annie Besant's friends have taken it upond themselves to defend her, but that does not mean that Judge was guiltless. Nor does it mean that the TS is supposed to be the Blavatsky and Judge admiration society that one might think it ought to be after reading the below (if one can get through it - personally I could not get through the book based on this, but I read enough to feel I should say this.) A good biography of Besant has yet to be written, I think (if somebody knows one, I would be very grateful). This should include the Judge affair, the Krishnamurti controversy, the Wadia-story etc. Perhaps a book on that part of theosophical history, from a more impartial perspective than 'The Theosophical Movement' should be written. Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Compiler wrote: > I hope that many readers, especially > newcomers to theosophy, will find these > three series of articles from THEOSOPHY > magazine to be very informative and useful: > > (1) The Theosophical Movement (34-part series: 1920-22) > (2) The Rising Cycle (13-part series: 1926-27) > (3) Aftermath (10-part series: 1935) > > They are found in this link that goes to the > 14th of 18 sections found on the "Additional" > articles index page of my WisdomWorld.org web site: > http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#14 > > Dear newcomers to Theosophy: > > I sincerely do hope that my web site offers > a well-rounded overall view of Theosophy and > the Theosophical Movement. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bartl@sprynet.com Thu Sep 04 15:36:55 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78837 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 22:36:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2003 22:36:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.130) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 22:36:54 -0000 Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h84MECu03173 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nycmny1-ar7-4-3-085-181.nycmny1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.3.85.181] helo=sprynet.com) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19v2MP-0003OZ-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:13:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3F57B921.1040208@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:13:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The Besant conspiracy References: <013801c3731c$2b96d690$f7de603e@computer> In-Reply-To: <013801c3731c$2b96d690$f7de603e@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > Why Annie's friends did not defend her? > Because they stand true to the Original Program of the TS and opposed > her black magic which she began in 1893 with the help of the Brahmans > (Jesuits of the East) and the Jewish Freemanons of Paris (Jesuits of the > West). If the Brahmans are the Jesuits of the East, and the Jewish Freemanons are the Jesuits of the West, then what are the Jesuits the Jesuits of? Bart From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Sep 04 17:04:25 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78183 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 00:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2003 00:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41011.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.10) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 00:04:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20030905000416.83032.qmail@web41011.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.21.147] by web41011.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:04:16 PDT Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: H.P. Blavatsky's Esoteric Instructions To: ".DanielHCaldwell" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Readers and students interested in HPB's esoteric papers can find many of them at: http://www.esotericinstructions.net ===== Daniel H. Caldwell BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER/BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com/introduction.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2 -------------------------------------------------------------- You can always access our main site by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc -------------------------------------------------------------- From mail@katinkahesselink.net Sat Sep 06 04:35:03 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40449 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 11:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2003 11:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 11:35:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2003 11:34:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:34:49 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: re Masters/Theosophy after HPB's passing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F554271.7070001@idirect.ca> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4453 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Mauri, I know about this statement. Yet it was said by HPB herself that: >> Those who will not have profited by the opportunity (given to the=20 world in every last quarter of a century), those who will not have=20 reached a certain point of psychic and spiritual development, or that=20 point from which begins the cycle of adeptship, by that day=96=96those=20 will advance no further than the knowledge already acquired. No=20 Master of Wisdom from the East will himself appear or send any one to=20 Europe or America after that period, and the sluggards will have to=20 renounce every chance of advancement in their present incarnation=96=96 until the year 1975. Such is the LAW, for we are in Kali Yuga=96=96the=20 Black Age=96=96and the restrictions in this cycle, the first 5,000 years=20 of which will expire in 1897, are great and almost insuperable. As to the relations of the Masters to this Section, it may be further=20 said, paradoxically, that with Them everything is possible and=20 everything impossible. They may or may not communicate personally on=20 the outer plane with a member, and those who are continually wishing=20 to receive "orders" or communications directly from Them on this=20 plane, either phenomenally or otherwise, will in all probability be=20 disappointed. The Masters have no desire to prove Their power or=20 give "tests" to anyone whatever. And the fact that a member has=20 concluded that a crisis of some kind or other is at hand, when,=20 according to his wise opinion, the Master or Masters ought to speak=20 and interfere personally, is no sound reason for such an outward=20 interference.>> (CW XII, p. 492, Esoteric Instructions) I will lift out the part that is especially relevant to relationships=20 with masters outside the given time period: >> As to the relations of the Masters to this Section, it may be=20 further said, paradoxically, that with Them everything is possible=20 and everything impossible. They may or may not communicate personally=20 on the outer plane with a member >> Now, those who think Besant became a black magician will obviously=20 think that she did not deserve. Yet those who see in her at least a=20 pure soul (as testified by her very many accomplishments in theosophy=20 and politics), could see this as colloborating evidence that the=20 letter sent to Besant in 1900 was indeed from KH as it is claimed.=20 Letter writing research as well as internal evidence seems to suggest=20 it was genuine. When the research by Barborka (if I'm not mistaken)=20 was published in a theosophical magazine (don't remember which), all=20 the response was positive, except Dallas Tenbroeck's. He was=20 sceptical, if I remember correctly.=20 Personally, based on the content of the letter, I think it was=20 genuine.=20 http://www.katinkahesselink.net/lastkh.htm Katinka Hesselink --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Mauri wrote: > re Masters/Theosophy after HPB's passing >=20 > Some excerpts from "H.P. Blavatsky As I Knew > Her" by A.L. Cleather: >=20 >=20 > < conclusion that H. P. B.'s passing sounded also the > death-knell of the Theosophical Society, as such. But > from a personal and interior point of view, it was even > more tragic. For I am absolutely convinced that, WHEN > H. P. B. LEFT US, THERE WAS NO LONGER ANY > POSSIBILITY OF DIRECT COMMUNICATION > WITH THE GREAT LODGE OF MASTERS, except > of course, for individuals who were capable of rising to > Their plane by interior effort and aspiration. If this be > not so, why=97after her death=97do we find Mr. Judge and > Mrs. Besant, apparently unable to rely on interior > guidance, turning to supposed chelas, psychics, and > clairvoyants in their efforts to re-establish > communication with the Masters ? The answer is plain > to anyone who has carefully studied what the Masters > Themselves have written on the subject. In the long > letter of rebuke to Colonel Olcott for his attitude > towards H. P. B., received during his voyage to England > in 1888, the Master K. H. writes :=97" Since 1885, I have > not written, or caused to be written, save through her > [H. P. B.'s] agency, direct or remote, a letter or line to > anybody in Europe or America, nor communicated > orally with, or through any third party . . . With occult > matters she has everything to do. We have not > abandoned her. She is not given over to chelas. > She is our direct agent." (1 see A GREAT > BETRAYAL, already mentioned.)>> From mail@katinkahesselink.net Sat Sep 06 04:49:45 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86699 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 11:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2003 11:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 11:49:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Sep 2003 11:49:08 -0000 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:47:51 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Besant and Judge and HPB Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c37107$0848e2d0$9036b3d1@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6936 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Katinka Hesselink" X-Originating-IP: 217.121.208.124 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink Hi Dallas, I know the issue of the Judge case is one which is dirty on both sides. My only statem