From bri_mue@yahoo.com Fri Feb 01 11:38:14 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bri_mue@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 19:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 50911 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 19:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 19:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.61) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 19:38:14 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.158] by n11.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2002 19:38:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 19:38:05 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Genuine or invented Orient. Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 837 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bri_mue" X-Originating-IP: 202.183.228.67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=62965613 X-Yahoo-Profile: bri_mue Jerry: "the original Theosophical players all said or wrote conflicting things at times, and now it is impossble to know what really went on. Blavatsky herself admitted to fibbing on occassion, but was an esoterist. Olcott was an honest soldier, but had no clue what esotericism was about. When Blavatsky mentions Buddhism, for example, she usually refers to Mahayana. Olcott on the other hand always refers to Hinayana, and so on." Brigitte: Throughout Blavatsky's work, the Orient continues to be a homogenized and generalized culture. Thus a generic Buddhism enters the Mahatma letters where Tibetan lamas and Theravada (Pali) scriptures cexist without any sense of the anachronism involved. Brigitte From bri_mue@yahoo.com Fri Feb 01 13:04:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bri_mue@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 21:04:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4794 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 21:04:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 21:04:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.77) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 21:04:27 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.113] by n27.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2002 21:04:27 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 21:04:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theosophical History. Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 504 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bri_mue" X-Originating-IP: 202.183.228.67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=62965613 X-Yahoo-Profile: bri_mue Paul: "the only fresh research on Theosophical history that has been made available on the Net in years," Any of the article contents on my web page anybody likes to give feed back/discuss, or you know better,pls. let it be known. See: http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a7502210/index.html Maybe a good place to start is the article by Gauri Viswanathan on the Mahatma Letters. Brigitte From bri_mue@yahoo.com Fri Feb 01 14:42:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bri_mue@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Feb 2002 22:42:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 52639 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2002 22:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2002 22:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.65) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2002 22:42:07 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.88] by n15.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2002 22:41:19 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 22:41:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: The re-inventions of the TS part II. Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 21866 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bri_mue" X-Originating-IP: 202.183.228.67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=62965613 X-Yahoo-Profile: bri_mue In 1929 the Theosophical Society entered its longest lasting crisis wenn Krishnamurti dissolved the Order of the Star and abdicated his position as the World Teacher. In The Dissolution of the Order of the Star, he rejected all attempts to organize spirituality, arguing that "Truth is a pathless land .... Truth, being limitless.... cannot be organised; nor should any organisation be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path." His goal, he claimed, was not to found a new religion, but to set men free-from all religions, all philosophies, and all fears." As William Kingsland put it, "the youth who was boomed and advertised for years as the great Avatar, and to whom credulous believers gave homage on their knees in London drawing-rooms and elsewhere, has now entirely repudiated the whole business." Krishnamurti's decision threw the TS into chaos. Some Lodge members recalled returning from holiday to discover that the lodge officials had resigned, the lodge rooms become deserted, and the Liberal Catholic Oratory been dismantled, all virtually overnight. Some members continued to support the TS out of devotion to Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater. But in 1933 Besant died, and Leadbeater died a few months later in 1934. George Arundale succeeded Besant as president of the TS and explained it as "straight Theosophy." Meaning that is what we get regularly showerred on us on theos-talk by Dallas and "the compiler". In referrence to my posting yesterday about the re-inventions of the TS whose teachings weren't at all wenn it started in 1875 then what is was now, I received a back channel mailing asking me to expand more on the re-invention of Theosophy in England after Blavatsky had moved and died there. Interesting that is of course exactly the time where the quote of HPB herself is from that I ended my previous posting with: "Every such attempt as the Theosophical Society has hitherto ended in failure, because, sooner or later, it has degenerated into a sect, set up hard-and-fast dogmas of its own, and so lost by imperceptible degrees that vitality which living truth alone can impart...If, then, they [future Theosophists] cannot be freed from such inherent bias, or at least taught to recognize it instantly and so avoid being led away by it, the result can only be that the Society will drift off onto some sandbank or other, and there remain a stranded carcass to moulder and die." (HPB, Key to Theosophy, p. 305.) Basicly at the end of Blavatsky's life in England as I described in an earlier postings there was a self-consciously "gentlemanly" variant of theosophy that develloped, which emphasized above all theosophy's rational, scolarly, and scientific character whereby it was neither. Mead's efforts to remake the English society in his own image however, received a severe setback in r894, when the Westminster Gazette published a series of articles by Edmund Garrett exposing what Garrett described as "theosophistry", in the TS. Quickly issued in book form as Isis Very Mucb Unveiled, the Story of the Great Mabatma Hoax, Garrett's articles turned what had been a private scandal within the TS into a highly public one. The scandal had been brewing for some time. When Blavatsky died, Besant had been expected to succeed her as Outer Head of the Esoteric Section (the Masters were assumed to be the Inner Heads). At the center of the controversy lay a new series of letters from the Mahatmas, which had been received since Blavatsky's death, and which many members believed had been forged by William Quan Judge. Shortly after HPB died, while both judge and Besant were in London, Annie Besant received "precipitated" letters from the Masters stating that "Judge's plan is right" and urging her to cede control of the ES to judge. As a result, Besant agreed to share the Outer Headship with him. Accusations surfaced at Adyar that judge had forged the new Mahatma Letters, and he was offered a choice between resignation or full investigation. The charges against judge, however, became entangled with the question of the existence of the Mahatmas from whom he claimed to have received his instructions. To preserve the society's neutrality on the question of the existence of the Masters, the charges were dropped." In August 1891 Annie Besant, in her heavily publicized farewell address to the National Secular Society at the Hall of Science, had staked her reputation on the existence of the Mahatmas and the authenticity of their letters: You have known me in this hall for sixteen and a half years. (Cheers.) You have never known me to tell a lie to you ("No, never," and loud cheers.) My worst public enemy has never cast a slur upon my integrity. ("Never," and cheers.) I tell you that since Mclme. Blavatsky left I have had letters in the same handwriting as the letters which she received. (Sensation.) Unless you think dead persons can write, surely that is a remarkable feat. You are surprised; I do not ask you to believe me; but I tell you it Is so. Garrett insisted that Besant, by virtue of her public claims on behalf of the society and its teachings, most notably this announcement at the Hall of Science, had constituted herself as a "professional Honest Person" whose credentials should be subject to public examination." In Besant's closing statement in her lecture at the Hall of Science,"Why I Became a Theosophist," she claimed that an imperious necessity forces me to speak the truth, as I see it, whether the speech please or displease, whether it bring praise or blame. That one loyalty to Truth I must keep stainless, whatever friendships fail me or human ties be broken. She may lead me into the wilderness, yet I must follow her, she may strip me of all love, yet I must pursue her; though she slay me, yet will I trust in her; and I ask no other epitaph on my tomb but "SHE TRIED TO FOLLOW TRUTH." Her changes of allegiance, which her critics might otherwise construe as feminine inconstancy, Besant represented as "loyalty to Truth," here allegorized as feminine. As a woman with a public reputation to defend, Besant used the conventional personification of Truth as female as her license to speak. Her status as a "professional Honest Person," as Garrett put it, was thus crucial to her negotiation of her persona as a woman in public. Garrett's case rested on the rhetoric of financial fraud and stock jobbery, presenting the TS as a Barnum & Bailey sideshow that duped the credulous into paying for spurious miracles. "Isis Very Much Unveiled"(with its allusion to a different kind of "public woman," the woman "very much unveiled" for public delectation) focused on the commercial underpinnings of the society's success: Blavatsky's "particular line of business" was "Missive manufacturing;" and her miracles had "created the successive 'booms' (as they would be called in a more purely commercial connexion) which have produced the biggest crop of entrance subscriptions from the wonder-loving public. Some of judge's most prominent supporters in England, including many members of HPB's original Inner Group, formed a new lodge, the HPB Lodge of the Theosophical Society. In a much quoted (though supposedly private) circular that judge issued to the members of the ES on November 3, he claimed that the Masters had ordered him to depose Besant, and he made it clear that opposition to him was opposition to the Masters. The circular itself was headed "By Master's Direction." Given her high public profile, Besant herself was remarkably absent from this public debate. This was partly because since 1893 she had spent much of her time away from London and in India. But she was also trying to police the boundaries between public and private within both the ES and the "outer" Theosophical Society. The Masters and Master's Orders, she claimed, were privileged, private, and sacred. judge's carelessness with documents circulated under a pledge of secrecy had brought the TS into public disrepute." Besant, still the "professional Honest Person," confined her public statements to the claims she had made at the Hall of Science, since those were already in the public realm. In her absence, the debate within the English society quickly acquired an almost entirely masculine character. Some members, were "of the opinion that the unpleasant circumstances through which the Theosophical Society is now passing may be largely attributed to the idolatrous adoration of Mahatmas. " Such behavior was clearly to be discouraged: "The cringing, slavish prostitution of man's rational faculties to 'Masters' cannot but demoralize the whole Society, and tend to make its members the laughing stock of the civilised world." They feared that the TS was becoming a "Mahatmic Church ' " and they opposed "the deification of 'Masters,' with the elevation of certain persons (no matter who they may be) to the position of mouthpiece or prophet." Independence and rationality could not coexist with the Masters and their prophets. Judge's claims to occult authority and spiritual leadership were also characterized by his opponents as an attack on the "manly" qualities of theosophy. "Surely," as the theosophist Robert Holt put it, "before thus renouncing all the prerogatives of manhood, and consigning our very thoughts to an eternal subjection, common prudence demands that we should seriously consider what manner of man it is who pretends to be the Arch-Pope of our society. The true theosophist, judge's opponents agreed, bowed to no authority but that of the inner or higher self. According to Mead, "the spirit which questioned was a right spirit, and neither in H. P. B. nor in anyone else ought we to place blind and unreasoning rellance." The question of eastern versus western authority became a crucial part of these debates. A decade earlier George Wyld had resigned from the British Theosophical Society on the grounds that this "Oriental practice of secrecy" appeared to him to be "childish and effeminate. In 1895, however, the images associated with both East and West were quite different. judge did criticize Besant's increasing reliance on Hindu advisers, such as the Brahman Gyanendra N. Chakravarti, a professor of mathematics in Allahabad and an ardent Hindu nationalist, whom Besant considered a "Master in the flesh. Judge denounced Chakravarti, who was teaching Besant "Bengali Tantrik" philosophy, as an agent of "Black Magicians" and argued that Besant's policies were turning the Theosophical Society's attention away from the glories of ancient India and toward what he saw as the degraded India of the present. Modern India he described as the India of "Yogis and Fakirs, its hide-bound castes, its subtle and magnificently intellectual theology, its Hatha Yoga and all the dangers attending that. Judge denigrated modern India and rehabilitated the West as a source of the divine wisdom. He said the Master told him that "the T. S. movement was begun by Them in the West by western people, and that it is not Their desire to turn it into a solely eastern movement nor to have us run after the present East." The key to continuing Blavatsky's work was "the establishment in the West of a great seat of learning where ... western occultism, as the essence combined out of all others, shall be taught. 1163 As Arthur Lillie put it in his own expose of the TS, "Mr. judge proposes to dethrone the fine 'old wisdom religion of India' as well as Mrs. Besant, its chief expounder." The Mahatmas, Lillie pointed out, "no longer 'live in India." Bertram Keightley, now general secretary of the new Indian Section, denounced judge's circular as a violation of the First Object, the commitment to Universal Brotherhood. judge's goal, he argued, was to elevate the West over the East spiritually as well as materially. Not only that, but also judge had stirred up trouble in India itself, by exploiting anti-Brahman feeling and exacerbating caste hostilities . judge's November 3 circular had cast the "subtle and magnificently intellectual theology" of modern Hinduism in a negative light. For his opponents, it was precisely the emphasis on intellectual, rather than emotional, apprehension of spiritual truth that was the appeal of theosophical teaching. In October I891 B. A. had written to the "Enquirer" column of The V,4han to ask what use theosophy might be "to those who are lacking in intellectual capacity," since it was "such a difficult subject that none but the intellectual can gain any comprehension of it." The initial replies had stressed the importance of purity of life and the pursuit of spiritual truth, but Mead added an editorial caveat, lest the importance of study be neglected: "it should be distinctly remembered that no real student of life should seek excuses for 'intellectual Iaziness." Judge and his followers, in contrast, emphasized the importance of making theosophy a vital force in their lives. According to W. A. Bulmer, editor of The Northern Theosophist, Mead and his set were creating a new breed of " Theosophical tadpoles" who were "all head": "They would settle every question by appeal to the brain. Logic chopping is their favourite occupation."" Working side by side with the "tadpoles" were the "redtapers," who were strangling the life out of the society. A "few wire pullers" had foisted a "whole super-structure of spurious laws and regulations" on the membership; this was not theosophy but a "Holy Mother Church. These mutual recriminations often carried clear racial overtones;they were also implicitly debates over the content and character of manliness itself. James M. Pryse made his case against Mead and the meta physicians in an impassioned letter to the "Enquirer" column of The Vahan: "Who are you.... that you should talk loftily of 'metaphysics'and decry the 'miracles' of some saint the tense strings of whose pure being vibrate silvery and sonorous from plane to plane ... until even the things of darkness and of matter obey his godlike will?" Pryse valued miracles over metaphysics and portrayed his opponents as anemic intellectuals who were too cowardly to face the realities of judge's spiritual power. Pryse himself, in increasingly purple prose, looked to the heroes of the western mystery tradition for inspiration, back to the "steel-clad seekers for the Holy Grail" and "the mailed Templars who with sword and lance fought mightily under the red cross of the Four Powers of the Hidden Majesty." He saluted those "western warriors who fought for the Cause' " hailing that "nobler past out of this cultured present when beings, having something of the outward semblance of men, keep well to the rear when danger comes and talk of philosophy and of the indestructibility of noumena ." Pryse had drawn the battle lines very clearly: miracles rather than metaphysics, European crusaders rather than eastern pandits, emotion rather than reason. In drawing these lines, he also invoked an alternative model of masculinity: not the independent, self-con trolled, and rational manliness of the gentleman and scholar, but the virile masculinity of the mail-clad warrior. Closely linked to all of this was the Anglo-Irish literary renaissance through George Russell (better known as ,AE) and W, B. Yeats, an occasional visitor to the lodge, the Irish theosophists were busy developing a mystery tradition of their own. The location of this Irish mystery tradition in a distant and pagan past was characteristic of contemporary efforts by Anglo-Irish Protestants to disconnect Irish patriotism from contemporary Catholicism. It also provided an apparently indigenous source of spiritual authority that stood as an alternative to the distant eastern mysticism represented by Indian Mahatmas. One way of recovering those qualities associated with both the Celtic and the Indian within Anglo-Saxon Englishness was to emphasize the common heritage of all these races within an Indo-European or Aryan framework. From the 185o's to the 1870's British orientalists, and especially comparative philologists, elaborated a complicated theory of racial origins that identified the English with the Aryans of North India. That myth of racial origins could and did have racist and reactionary consequences, but it could also reinforce the sense of a common racial heritage and link the English with Aryan elites at least. Those theosophists who remained loyal to Adyar continued to exploit these older notions of Aryanism to defend the (imperial) connection between England and India, which Judge wanted to abandon. After the Judge crisis was resolved by the secession of judge and his largely American (and Irish) followers, Besant, now firmly in control of the Esoteric Section, spent most of her time in India, Mead had the field to himself, and he dismissed earlier efforts as "unintelligent propaganda," arguing that members now realized that "our main duty is to try to fit ourselves by study and training. The emphasis was to be on sound scolarship rather then occultism and phenomena, and Mead claimed that "there is no longer any considerable demand for pseudo-magical treatises or works that pretend to mysticism." At the same time the recognition that "All are One" was not necessarily a recognition that all were equal. Many theosophists agreed with Margherita Ruspoli that "order and subordination are necessary." The Occult Hierarchy to which the theosophists' Masters belonged was itself a graded order, based on a clear recognition of the importance of spiritual superiority for leadership. As Ruspoli put it, "Out of a true conception of brotherhood, springs naturally an impassioned loyalty to the Elders who are able and ready to help US." In the political realm, this understanding of leadership could acquire distinctly authoritarian overtones. The ideal states of Atlantis and Lemuria, according to Besant's detailed description, were well governed by "King-Initiates," highly evolved souls that were absolute autocrats.9' In an interview with the suffrage newspaper The Vote, Besant argued that if the powers of the British monarchy were fully restored, then 11 great souls" would be sent to fill the office, as had taken place in the case of the Mikado of Japan, "a most advanced soul occupying a position of the highest responsibility." 9' The democratic polity was a necessary stage in humanity's development, but many theosophists argued that its time had passed and it would soon be replaced. Democracy was a temporary phase that did not alter the hierarchical nature of the cosmos, and while it had a part to play in the Great Plan it was not itself an ideal state. The truly ideal state was a spiritual aristocracy that recognized that all men were not born equal, that there were older as well as younger brothers in the human family. Many theosophists felt no embarrassment about identifying themselves and the middle class more generally with the "elder brethren." As Leslie Haden Guest noted in his pamphlet Theosophy and Social Reconstruction, "Those who are older in evolution must recognise where we stand. As president of the TS, Besant targeted the professional middle class as the most effective carriers of her vision. Only those who belonged to the "great Middle Class" were in a position to make the impartial decisions required in the reorganization of the state: "For those of you who belong to the great Middle Class in England, who have a fair sufficiency of the material side of life, who have education, so that your brains have developed, who have acquired the culture which enables people to think impartially and to realise the greatest needs of human-kind, I often think that you are the people best fitted to grapple with these problems." Besant called for a return, in both England and India, to a purified caste system in which "the recognition of real castes" would produce order here there was now only anarchy: in England the anarchy of the indivIdual struggle for existence, in India the anarchy of a caste system modernized into neglect of ancient duties. Teachers would teach, rulers could rule, traders would trade, and those who, by karmic and evolulonary inheritance, were fitted only to serve would serve.' In this heme, everyone would do their evolutionary duty. This narrow vision of family and caste was translated into a western : through organizations like the Order of the Knights of the Round Table, in which Europe's Middle Ages was presented as an exemplar of he organic society, The Round Table (RT) was a children's organization ounded within the TS to teach European children the lessons supposedly. taught in India by the caste system. RT rituals and ceremonies acknowledged the East as the source of spiritual truth but attempted to cultivate the ideals of service and duty in a form compatible with the European spirit. Girls as well as boys were encouraged to join the RoundTable, and women as well as men served as Knights in the order. The RT was designed to revive the spirit of noblesse oblige among the children of the privileged. Its central ethic was a commitment to service and to "the old motto of chivalry: "Do thy Duty let come what may." Just as the revitalization of the caste system was to restore India to its rrue place in world affairs, so through the revival of chivalry Europe was to be restored to itself. RT activities attempted to resanctify modern life, to provide it with order, structure, and meaning. Brigitte From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Fri Feb 01 17:03:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 01:03:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 10854 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 01:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 01:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9601.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.129.180) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 01:02:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20020202010244.66351.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.203.104.143] by web9601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 17:02:44 PST Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:02:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Theos-World The re-inventions of the TS part II. To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Stubbs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs Garrett's book is regrettably out of print. It is a full length book, but it would be nice if someone put the whole thing on the Internet. It should also be said that nothing that happened post 1891 can reasonably be blamed on Blavatsky, including the unseemly power struggles and phony mahatma letters that came from Judge and his two spirit mediums. --- bri_mue wrote: > In 1929 the Theosophical Society entered its longest > lasting crisis > wenn Krishnamurti dissolved the Order of the Star > and abdicated his > position as the World Teacher. In The Dissolution of > the Order of the > Star, he rejected all attempts to organize > spirituality, arguing > that "Truth is a pathless land .... Truth, being > limitless.... cannot > be organised; nor should any organisation be formed > to lead or to > coerce people along any particular path." His goal, > he claimed, was > not to found a new religion, but to set men > free-from all religions, > all philosophies, and all fears." > > As William Kingsland put it, "the youth who was > boomed and > advertised for years as the great Avatar, and to > whom credulous > believers gave homage on their knees in London > drawing-rooms and > elsewhere, has now entirely repudiated the whole > business." > Krishnamurti's decision threw the TS into chaos. > Some Lodge members > recalled returning from holiday to discover that the > lodge officials > had resigned, the lodge rooms become deserted, and > the Liberal > Catholic Oratory been dismantled, all virtually > overnight. > Some members continued to support the TS out of > devotion to Annie > Besant and Charles Leadbeater. But in 1933 Besant > died, and > Leadbeater died a few months later in 1934. George > Arundale succeeded > Besant as president of the TS and explained it as > "straight > Theosophy." Meaning that is what we get regularly > showerred on us on > theos-talk by Dallas and "the compiler". > > In referrence to my posting yesterday about the > re-inventions of the > TS whose teachings weren't at all wenn it started in > 1875 then what > is was now, I received a back channel mailing asking > me to expand > more on the re-invention of Theosophy in England > after Blavatsky had > moved and died there. > > Interesting that is of course exactly the time where > the quote of > HPB herself is from that I ended my previous posting > with: > > "Every such attempt as the Theosophical Society has > hitherto ended in > failure, because, sooner or later, it has > degenerated into a sect, > set up hard-and-fast dogmas of its own, and so lost > by imperceptible > degrees that vitality which living truth alone can > impart...If, then, > they [future Theosophists] cannot be freed from such > inherent bias, > or at least taught to recognize it instantly and so > avoid being led > away by it, the result can only be that the Society > will drift off > onto some sandbank or other, and there remain a > stranded carcass to > moulder and die." (HPB, Key to Theosophy, p. 305.) > > Basicly at the end of Blavatsky's life in England as > I described in > an earlier postings there was a self-consciously > "gentlemanly" > variant of theosophy that develloped, which > emphasized above all > theosophy's rational, scolarly, and scientific > character whereby it > was neither. > > Mead's efforts to remake the English society in his > own image > however, received a severe setback in r894, when the > Westminster > Gazette published a series of articles by Edmund > Garrett exposing > what Garrett described as "theosophistry", in the > TS. Quickly issued > in book form as Isis Very Mucb Unveiled, the Story > of the Great > Mabatma Hoax, Garrett's articles turned what had > been a private > scandal within the TS into a highly public one. > The scandal had been brewing for some time. When > Blavatsky died, > Besant had been expected to succeed her as Outer > Head of the Esoteric > Section (the Masters were assumed to be the Inner > Heads). At the > center of the controversy lay a new series of > letters from the > Mahatmas, which had been received since Blavatsky's > death, and which > many members believed had been forged by William > Quan Judge. Shortly > after HPB died, while both judge and Besant were in > London, Annie > Besant received "precipitated" letters from the > Masters stating > that "Judge's plan is right" and urging her to cede > control of the ES > to judge. As a result, Besant agreed to share the > Outer Headship with > him. Accusations surfaced at Adyar that judge had > forged the new > Mahatma Letters, and he was offered a choice between > resignation or > full investigation. The charges against judge, > however, became > entangled with the question of the existence of the > Mahatmas from > whom he claimed to have received his instructions. > To preserve the > society's neutrality on the question of the > existence of the Masters, > the charges were dropped." > > In August 1891 Annie Besant, in her heavily > publicized farewell > address to the National Secular Society at the Hall > of Science, had > staked her reputation on the existence of the > Mahatmas and the > authenticity of their letters: > > You have known me in this hall for sixteen and a > half years. > (Cheers.) You have never known me to tell a lie to > you ("No, never," > and loud cheers.) My worst public enemy has never > cast a slur upon my > integrity. ("Never," and cheers.) I tell you that > since Mclme. > Blavatsky left I have had letters in the same > handwriting as the > letters which she received. (Sensation.) Unless you > think dead > persons can write, surely that is a remarkable feat. > You are > surprised; I do not ask you to believe me; but I > tell you it Is so. > > Garrett insisted that Besant, by virtue of her > public claims on > behalf of the society and its teachings, most > notably this > announcement at the Hall of Science, had constituted > herself as > a "professional Honest Person" whose credentials > should be subject to > public examination." > > In Besant's closing statement in her lecture at the > Hall of > Science,"Why I Became a Theosophist," she claimed > that an imperious > necessity forces me to speak the truth, as I see it, > whether the > speech please or displease, whether it bring praise > or blame. That > one loyalty to Truth I must keep stainless, whatever > friendships fail > me or human ties be broken. She may lead me into the > wilderness, yet > I must follow her, she may strip me of all love, yet > I must pursue > her; though she slay me, yet will I trust in her; > and I ask no other > epitaph on my tomb but "SHE TRIED TO FOLLOW TRUTH." > > Her changes of allegiance, which her critics might > otherwise construe > as feminine inconstancy, Besant represented as > "loyalty to Truth," > here allegorized as feminine. As a woman with a > public reputation to > defend, Besant used the conventional personification > of Truth as > female as her license to speak. Her status as a > "professional Honest > Person," as Garrett put it, was thus crucial to her > negotiation of > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Feb 01 21:10:48 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 05:10:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 71459 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 05:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 05:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.146) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 05:10:47 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([68.54.242.33]) by femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20020202051046.XSRZ3255.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org> for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:10:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3C5B74B1.22793712@wisdomworld.org> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 00:10:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: 2 more articles added to WisdomWorld.org From: Compiler X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46028585 X-Yahoo-Profile: SeriousFoodForThought Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These two articles from THEOSOPHY magazine were scanned, proofread, and posted on the WisdomWorld.org web site today. They are found in the "COLLATED ARTICLES" section of the "Additional" articles Index page: (1) Our Invisible Ancestors (2) The Pantheists You'll find them listed alphabetically in this Index page of almost 300 "Collated" articles (of which 175 are now done). Click on the link and scroll down the page to them -- they are the last two finished articles: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/index.html [Technical note: If the above long link is broken, the link to the "Additional" articles index page is found below.] On another note, in case you might be interested, you'll find the link to my "Public & Private Enterprise" web site at the bottom of this page. John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html This is the Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book, which was especially compiled for newcomers to Theosophy: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- PUBLIC & PRIVATE ENTERPRISE: This next link is the most updated version of my economic-project proposal to humanity, a project that I also consider to be Theosophical. In it you will find a new and unique, but mostly unknown, economic system model that might be able to put an end to involuntary poverty on earth. How? It presents a way to fully finance everything of importance that is needed in every nation. Because of this it's well worth pointing to. Please note that, for strategic reasons, of wanting it to have the best chance of being accepted by all peoples worldwide, no matter what their religious, philosophical, and scientific beliefs are, I've put it on a completely different web site; it contains no mention of, or link to, the Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement that is presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org/ ------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Feb 02 04:55:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 12:55:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13029 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 12:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 12:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 12:55:26 -0000 Received: from pool0094.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.152.94] helo=earthlink) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16WzgZ-00021j-00; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 04:54:27 -0800 To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: Part II Adepts - Masters - Mahatmas -- THEIR WORK (Part II) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 04:47:05 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 Part II ADEPTS, - MASTERS - MAHATMAS == THEIR WORK Saturday, February 02, 2002 Dear Friends: Some mention of the Masters of Wisdom and their influence on the world came up this week. I seemed to me interesting to look into what was said by the original writers on Theosophical subjects. Here are some of their views Divided into Part I and Part II Best wishes, Dallas ================================================================= ==== PART II MONAD and the PERSONAL MAN "At the birth of the future man, the monad, radiating with all the glory of its immortal parent which watches it from the 7th sphere, becomes senseless. It loses all recollection of the past, and returns to consciousness but gradually, when the instinct of childhood gives place to reason and intelligence. After the separation between the life-principle (astral spirit) and the body takes place, the liberated soul--Monad, exultingly rejoins the mother and father spirit, the radiant Augoeides, and the 2 merged into ONE, forever form, with a glory proportioned to the spiritual purity of the past earth-life, the Adam who has completed the circle of necessity, and is freed from the last vestige of his physical encasement. Henceforth, growing more and more radiant at each step of his upward progress, he mounts the shining path that ends at the point which he started around the GRAND CYCLE." ISIS I 303 WORK OF A GREAT REFORMER: BUDDHA GAUTAMA SIDDARTHA BUDDHA SIDDHARTHA (Sk.) The name given to Gautama, the Prince of Kapilavastu, at his birth...he would not have been a mortal man, had he not passed through hundreds and thousands of births previous to his last...through every stage of transmigration from the lowest animate and inanimate atom and insect, up to the highest--man, ...the hidden symbolism in the sequence of these re-births (jataka) contains simply [that] every human being who has ever existed has passed through the same evolution...as soon as Gautama had reached the human form he began exhibiting in every personality the utmost unselfishness, self-sacrifice and charity...the 4th of the Sapta (7) Buddhas and Sapta Tathagatas...(67) Esoteric teachings claim that he renounced Nirvana and gave up the Dharmakaya vesture to remain a "Buddha of compassion" within the reach of the miseries of this world. And the religious philosophy he left to it has produced for over 2,000 years generations of good and unselfish men. His is the only absolutely bloodless religion among all existing religions...[if the] simple, humane and philosophical code of daily life left to us by the greatest Man-Reformer ever known, should ever come to be adopted by mankind at large, then indeed an era of bliss and peace would dawn on Humanity." GLOS 65-67 MASTERS and ADEPTS ARE EVERYWHERE: -- RECORDERS OF PROGRESS "There are scattered throughout the world, a handful of thoughtful and solitary students, who pass their lives in obscurity, far from the rumors of the world, studying the great problems of the physical and spiritual universes. They have their secret records in which are preserved the fruits of the scholastic labors of the long line of recluses whose successors they are. The knowledge of their early ancestors, the sages of India, Babylon, Nineveh, and the imperial Thebes; the legends and traditions commented upon by the masters of Solon, Pythagoras, and Plato, in the (558) marble halls of Heliopolis and Sais; traditions which in their days, already seemed to hardly glimmer from behind the foggy curtain of the past;--all this, and much more, is recorded on indestructible parchment, and passed with jealous care from one adept to another. These men believe the story of Atlantis to be no fable...In those submerged temples and libraries the archaeologist would find, could he but explore them, the materials for filling the gaps that now exist in what we imagine is history." ISIS I 557-558 (see LIGHT ON THE PATH, p. 72-5) INSPIRATION FROM THE NIRMANAKAYAS "Most of us believe in the survival of the Spiritual Ego, in Planetary Spirits and Nirmanakayas, those great Adepts of the past ages, who, renouncing their right to Nirvana, remain in our spheres of being, not as "spirits" but as complete spiritual human Beings. Save their corporeal, visible envelope, which they leave behind, they remain as they were, in order to help poor humanity, as far as can be done without sinning against Karmic law. This is the "Great Renunciation," indeed; an incessant, conscious self-sacrifice throughout aeons and ages till that day when the eyes of blind mankind will open and, instead of the few, all will see the universal truth. These Beings may well be regarded as God and Gods--if they would but allow the fire in our hearts, at the thought of that purest of all sacrifices, to be fanned into the flame of adoration, or the smallest altar in their honor. But they will not. Verily, "the secret heart is fair Devotion's (only) temple," and any other in this case, would be no better than profane ostentation." HPB ART. III 204 "Remember, thou that fightest for man's liberation * each failure is success and each sincere attempt wins its reward in time." * This is an allusion to a well-known belief in the East...that every additional Buddha or Saint is a new soldier in the army of those who work for the liberation, or salvation of mankind. In Northern Buddhist countries, where the doctrine of the Nirmanakayas--those Bodhisattvas who renounce well-earned Nirvana or the Dharmakaya vesture (both of which shut them out forever from the world of men) in order to invisibly assist mankind and lead it finally to Paranirvana--is taught, every new Bodhisattva, or initiated great Adept, is called the "liberator of mankind." VOICE OF THE SILENCE 69 COMPASSION -- SELF-SACRIFICE "This same popular reverence calls "Buddhas of Compassion" those Bodhisattvas who, having reached the rank of an Arhat (i.e., have completed the fourth or seventh Path), refuse to pass into the Nirvanic state or "don the Dharmakaya robe and cross to the other shore," as it would then become beyond their power to assist men even so little as Karma permits. They prefer to remain invisibly (in Spirit, so to speak) in the world, and contribute towards man's salvation by influencing them to follow the Good Law, i.e., lead them on the Path of Righteousness..." VOICE OF THE SILENCE 77 WISDOM RELIGION PRESERVED SINCE ANTIQUITY -- ADEPTS WORK WITH HUMANITY "This ancient body of doctrine is known as the "Wisdom Religion" and was always taught by adepts or initiates therein who preserve it through all time. Hence, and from other doctrines demonstrated, it is shown that man, being spirit and immortal, is able to perpetuate his real life and consciousness, and has done so during all time in the persons of an ancient and high brotherhood who concern themselves with the soul development of man, held by them to include every process of evolution on all planes. The initiates, being bound by the law of evolution, must work with humanity as its development permits. Therefore from time to time they give out again and again the same doctrine...this is the wisdom religion, and they are the keepers of it." WQJ ARTICLES I pp. 1 - 2 SAVIORS OF NATIONS AND OF MEN -- TEACHERS OF TRUTH -- ALIVE NOW "At times they come to nations as great teachers and "saviors," who only repromulgate the old truths and systems of ethics. This therefore holds that humanity is capable of infinite perfection both in time and quality, the saviors and adepts being held up as examples of that possibility. From this living and presently acting body of perfected men H.P.Blavatsky declared she received the impulse to once more bring forward the old ideas, and from them also received several keys to ancient and modern doctrines. Added...to the testimony through all time found in the records of all nations we have this modern explicit assertion that the ancient learned and humanitarian body of adepts still exists on this earth and takes an interest in the development of the race." WQJ ARTICLES I PP. 1-2 "NIRMANAKAYA...is that ethereal form which one would assume when leaving his physical he would appear in his astral body--having in addition all the knowledge of an Adept. The Bodhisattva develops it in himself as he proceeds on the Path. Having reached the goal and refused its fruition, he remains on Earth, as an (78) Adept; and when he dies, instead of going into Nirvana, he remains in that glorious body he has woven for himself, invisible to uninitiated mankind, to watch over and protect it...Thus, to be enabled to help humanity, an Arhat who has won the right to Nirvana, "renounces the Dharmakaya body" in mystic parlance; keeps, of the Sambhogakaya, only the great and complete knowledge, and remains in his Nirmanakaya body. The Esoteric School teaches that Gautama Buddha, with several of his Arhats, is such a Nirmanakaya higher than whom, on account of the great renunciation and sacrifice for mankind, there is none known." Voice 77-8 CYCLES FOR THE APPEARANCE OF SAGES "...there never was yet a great World-reformer, whose name has passed into our generation, who (a) was not a direct emanation of the LOGOS (under whatever name known to us), i.e., an essential incarnation of one of "the seven," of the "divine Spirit who is sevenfold;" and (b) who had not appeared before, during the (359) past Cycles. They will recognize, then, the cause which produces in history and chronology certain riddles of the ages; the reason why, for instance, it is impossible for them to assign any reliable date to Zoroaster, who is found multiplied by 12 and 14 in the Dabistan; why the Rishis and Manus are so mixed up in their numbers and individualities; why Krishna and Buddha speak of themselves as re-incarnations, i.e., Krishna is identified with the Rishi Narayana, and Gautama gives a series of his previous births; and why the former, especially, being "the very supreme Brahma," is yet called Amsamsavatra--"a part of the part" only of the Supreme on Earth...The esoteric doctrine explains it by saying that each of these (as many others) had first appeared on earth as one of the 7 powers of the LOGOS, individualized as a God or "Angel" (messenger); then, mixed with matter, they had re-appeared in turn as great sages and instructors who "taught the 5th Race," after having instructed the two preceding races, had ruled during the Divine Dynasties, and had finally sacrificed themselves, to be reborn under various circumstances for the good of mankind, and for its salvation at certain critical periods; until in their last incarnations they had become truly only "the parts of a part" on earth, though de facto the One Supreme in Nature." SD II 358-9 CYCLES FOR THE APPEARANCE OF "SAVIORS" "It is interesting to turn to the "Esoteric Character of the Gospels" [ HPB ARTICLES III 169 fn ], by HPB. Theosophists--at any rate some of them--who understand the hidden meaning of the universally expected Avatars, Messiahs, and Sosioshes and Christs--know that it is no end of the world, but the consummation of the age--that is, the close of the cycle--that is fast approaching." [This was written November and December, 1887, and January, 1888.] She said, "There are several remarkable cycles that come to a close at the end of this century [nineteenth]. First, the 5,000 years of the Kali-Yuga cycle; again, the Messianic cycle of the Samaritan (also Kabalistic) Jews, of the Man connected with Pices. It is a cycle historic and not very long, but very occult, lasting about 2155 years, but having a true significance only when computed by lunar months. It occurred 2410 and 255 B.C. or when the equinox entered into the sign of the Ram, and again into that of Pices. When it enters in a few years, the sign of Aquarius, psychologists will have some extra work to do, and the psychic idiosyncrasies of man will enter on a great change." [ HPB Art III 169 fn ] This "great change" I think can be stated in three words: Susceptibility to suggestion, good, bad or indifferent. Look about you and see if it is not so. Are the "Messiahs" of today using suggestion? ... Jesus said, "Take heed lest no man lead you astray, for many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and shall lead many astray...If any man shall say unto you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' go not forth; 'behold he is in the inner chambers,' believe them not. For as the lightning (light) cometh from the East, and is seen even in the West, so shall be the presence of the Son of Man." The esoteric savior in no man, but is the divine principle in every human being. What is needed is a knowledge of the Path that leads to Him or It. Few know the Messenger when He comes, but it is possible for many to know a true Message by putting it to every conceivable test. The "Messiah" has come and gone; but (152) He has left the "Comforter"--His Message. He will return, but not for several generations of men. it is possible for men to get at the truth of these things if they will take the trouble to make the search in all sincerity." RC -- F P 151-2 "I produce myself among creatures" has reference to voluntary and conscious incarnation of high spiritual beings--avatars, saviors of the people --including not only the incarnation itself but the influence of a spiritual kind that attends the being...The Gita says that They come "whenever there is an insurrection of vice and injustice in the world." There is an analogy between this and what was hinted about earthquakes by WQJ, who wrote at the time of an earthquake that some soul of use had been born...There is reason to think that the mission of Jesus was a minor one, being in a falling cycle, and that it was not so much to disclose as to cover up the avenues to occult knowledge, so that the following times of the decadence of spirituality should (202) not have dangerous weapons left for selfish, unprincipled and ignorant people to use; hence he accentuated ethics. This does not mean that the being known as Jesus was inferior to the one known as Buddha. They might have been one and the same being, in reality. The statement is that the "missions" or efforts were of a different nature because of the different cycles and peoples...We cannot judge of the nature of any of these great incarnations, to the extent of saying that one is superior to the other...Allied to our period, if we consider that the quality of the cycle varies in importance, and, consequently, in the degree of the being needed at any time, we find the conjunction of the cycles above spoken of points to a most important period, and consequently, to important "beings"--which may give us a clue to what the Messengers HPB and WQJ really were. Other periods of less importance bring incarnations of probationary chelas who are on their trial." RC -- FP p. 201-2 NIRMANAKAYAS WORK -- THEIR RELATIONS WITH US "Nirmanakayas. They are men who have become perfected--who could if they chose reach up to and hold the very highest state of bliss, but who refuse that bliss because it would mean forever to forsake all chance of helping their fellow-men. They can, when the nature of the person is true and aspiring strongly, communicate, if it is necessary to help him. But there is no mistake in these communications. They are personal, meant for that one as direct help. It is the within which induces any outside help that we receive. It is a recognition of the spiritual nature of ourselves and all beings which makes the true condition. It is from the spiritual that the strength comes. And it is for the perfection of humanity that all the Divine Incarnations have labored." RC -- FP p. 258 "PERFECTED" SOULS -- STAND AS EXAMPLES: - WE CAN EMULATE "No one can know anything for another. Each one has to know for himself. Each one has to do his own learning. The object of Theosophy is to teach man what he is, to show man what he is, and to present to him the necessity of his knowing for himself. No vicarious atonement, no vicarious transmission of knowledge, is possible. But the direction in which knowledge lies can be pointed out; the steps which will lead us in that direction may be shown, as can be done only by those who have passed that way before...It is the doctrine of Krishna, of Buddha, of Jesus, no less than the doctrine of H.P.B... The very fact of suffering is a blessing. Karma and Reincarnation show us that suffering is brought about by wrong thought and action; through our sufferings we may be brought to a realization that a wrong course has been pursued. We learn through our sufferings. Life is one grand school of Being, and we have come to that stage where it is right for us to learn to understand the purpose of existence; to grasp our whole nature firmly; to use every means in our power in every direction...to bring the whole of our nature into accord, so that our lower instrument may be "in line" and thus more and more fully reflect our divine natures." RC -- FP p. 263 SAVIORS MAY TEACH -- WE HAVE TO MAKE THE EFFORT "Savior after Savior has come to the earth for our benefit, but no one can give us any more benefit than to point to the truths that have been given all down the ages. We must take advantage of that knowledge and advance out of the state in which we have placed ourselves. No Savior can save us. No God can protect us. No devil can torment us. For both God and the devil are within. The devil is the misunderstanding of our nature...It is the God in us which demands self-advancement, self-induced and self-devised exertions, and the full acceptance of responsibility." FP p. 300 "...to realize our own responsibility to all others and to act in accordance is to have become unselfish, and to have done away with the prime cause of sin, sorrow and suffering...We must take care of each other, not of ourselves...truth, as we know, always explains." RC--FP p. 308 WE ARE NEVER "LEFT ALONE," or "ABANDONED" "Never have we been left alone. Always there are beings greater in evolution than we, who return to this field of physical existence to help us, to wake us up to a perception of our natures. Such has been the mission of all Divine Incarnations down the ages. Those beings have come and lived among us, have become "in all things like unto us," as was said of Jesus, in order that the human words They spoke should be words we would understand. They meet us on the basis of our ideas and try to clarify them and set them in a true course. They can do nothing to stop what (338) we have done and what we want to do; They can not interfere; but They can help us to see the right direction, if we are so willed...Always They try to help us, even when we are proceeding along wrong lines and bringing upon ourselves the suffering such wrong lines entail--even then They try to direct the results into a better channel..." RC -- FP p. 337-8 KRISHNA' s TEACHINGS -- LINE OF TRANSMISSION "This exhaustless doctrine of Yoga I formerly taught unto Vivaswat; (the SUN, first manifestation of divine wisdom at the beginning of evolution) Vivaswat communicated it to Manu (generic title for the reigning spirit of the sensuous universe; the present one being Vivaswata Manu) and Manu made it known unto Ikshwaku; (the founder of the Indian Solar dynasty -- [Suryavansa]) and being thus transmitted from one unto another it was studied by the Raja-rishees, (Royal Sages) until in the course of time the mighty art was lost, O harasser of thy foes. It is even the same exhaustless, secret, eternal doctrine I have this day communicated unto thee because thou art my devotee and my friend." GITA p. 30 "...in the early part of a new creation called a Manwantara...a great Being descends among men and imparts certain ideas and aspirations which reverberate all through the succeeding ages until the day when the general dissolution--the night of Brahma--comes on...Although "Vivaswata" as a name for the sun reveals nothing to our western ears, there is a great truth hidden behind it, just as to-day there is as great a mystery behind our solar orb [see WQJ ARTICLES II 121]. He was the Being appointed to help and guide the race at its beginning. He had himself, ages before, gone through incarnation during other creations, and had mounted step-by-step the long ladder of evolution until by natural right he had become a god. The same process is going on to-day, preparing some Being for similar work in ages to come. And it has gone on in the limitless past also; and always the Supreme Spirit as Krishna (104) teaches the Being, so that he may implant those ideas necessary for our salvation." GITA NOTES p. 103-4 THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY "In the Krita age, Vishnu, in the form of Kapila and other (inspired sages)...imparts to the world true wisdom as Enoch did. In the Treta age he restrains the wicked, in the form of a universal monarch (the Chakravartin-- or the 'Everlasting King' of Enoch) and protects the three worlds (or races). "In the Dwapara age, in the person of Veda-Vyasa, he divides the one Veda into four, and distributes it into hundreds (Sata) of branches." Truly so; the Veda of the earliest Aryans, before it was written, went forth into every nation of the Atlanto-Lemurians, off-shoots of the never dying tree of wisdom have scattered their dead leaves even on Judaeo-Christianity. And at the end of the Kali. our present age, Vishnu, or the "Everlasting King" will appear as Kalki, and re-establish righteousness upon earth. The minds of those who live at that time shall be awakened, and become as pellucid as crystal. "The men who are those changed by virtue of that peculiar time (the 6th race) shall be as the seeds of other human beings, and shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Krita age of purity;" i.e., it shall be the 7th race, the race of "Buddhas," the "Sons of God," born of immaculate parents." SD II 483 ADEPTS SHIELD AND TRANSMIT SPIRITUAL INFLUENCE "...there is the true center of which the sun in heaven is a symbol and partial reflection. This center let us place for the time with the Dhyan Chohans or planetary spirits. It is all knowing and so intensely powerful that, were a struggling disciple to be suddenly introduced to its presence unprepared, he would be consumed, both body and soul. And this is the goal we are all striving after, and many of us asking to see even at the opening of the race. But for our protection a cover, or umbrella, has been placed beneath IT. The ribs are the Rishees, or Adepts, or Mahatmas; the Elder Brothers of the race. The handle is in every man's hand. And although each man is, or is to be, connected with some particular one of those Adepts, he can also receive the influence from the true centre coming down through the handle. The light, life, knowledge, and power falling upon this cover permeate in innumerable streams the whole mass of men beneath, whether they be students or not. As the disciple strives upward, he begins to separate himself from the great mass of human beings, and becomes in a more or less definite manner connected with the ribs. Just as the streams of water flow down from the points of the ribs of our umbrellas, so the spiritual influences pour out from the adepts who form the frame of the protecting cover, without which poor humanity would be destroyed by the blaze from the spiritual world." WQJ ARTICLES II 38 INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR CHOICE PREVAILS "Admitting that the Adepts have great powers, they have disclaimed the power to alter human nature in any other was than through the processes of evolution and always strictly under a rigid law of justice." "The Adepts do not yet appear publicly and proclaim themselves to the world...because the cycle must run its course, since, if they proclaimed themselves out of time a wrong result would be produced, just as a note, good in itself, is a producer of discord when sounded out of time, place or tune. This reason is the reason deduced from the law of cycles." WQJ ARTICLES II 53-4 ADEPT WORK NOW "In this civilization especially we are inclined to look outside instead of inside ourselves. Nearly all our progress is material and thus superficial. Spirit is neglected or forgotten, while that which is not spirit is enshrined as such. The intuitions of the little child are stifled until at last they are almost lost, leaving the many at the mercy of judgments based upon exterior reason. How then can one who has been near the Golden Gates--much more he who passed through them--be other than silent in surroundings where the golden refulgence is unknown or denied. Obliged to use the words of his fellow travelers, he gives them a meaning unknown to them, or detaches them from their accustomed relation. Hence he is sometimes vague, often misleading, seldom properly understood. But not lost are any of these words, for the sound through the ages, and in future eras they will turn themselves into sentences of gold in the hearts of disciples yet to come." WQJ ARTICLES II 354 SACRIFICE OF SPIRITUAL BEINGS FOR BENEFITING MATTER "...the surname Christos is based on, and the story of the Crucifixion derived from, events that preceded it. Everywhere, in India as in Egypt, in Chaldea as in Greece, all these legends were built upon one and the same primitive type; the voluntary sacrifice of the logoi--the rays of the one LOGOS, the direct manifested emanation from the One ever-concealed Infinite and Unknown--whose rays incarnated in mankind. They consented to fall into matter, and are, therefore, called the "Fallen Ones." HPB ART III 189 REFINEMENT OF CONSCIOUSNESS and DEFINITION OF RESPONSIBILITY "...an absolute consciousness, "Adi-Buddhi"; and the Buddhist philosopher knows that there are Planetary Spirits, the "Dhyan Chohans."... If the Dhyan Chohans and all the invisible Beings--the Seven Centres and their direct Emanations, the minor centres of Energy--are the direct reflex of the ONE LIGHT, yet men are far removed from these, since the whole of the visible Kosmos consists of "self-produced beings, the creatures of Karma." ... they teach that only "two things are (objectively) eternal, namely Akasa and Nirvana;" and that these are ONE in reality, and but a maya when divided." SD I 635-6 SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION "It is the Spiritual evolution of the inner, immortal man that forms the fundamental tenet in the Occult Sciences...the ONE Universal Life, independent of matter... and... the individual intelligences that animate the various manifestations of this Principle...The ONE Life is closely related to the one law which governs the World of Being--KARMA." SD I 634 INTELLIGENCE INNATE IN ALL BEINGS DEMONSTRATED BY CYCLES "The essential faculty possessed by all the cosmic and terrestrial elements, of generating within themselves a regular and harmonious series of results, a concatenation of causes and effects is an irrefutable proof that they are either animated by an extra or intra INTELLIGENCE, or conceal such within or behind the manifested veil...Newton...recognized fully the limits that separate the action of natural Forces from that of the INTELLIGENCES that set the innumerable laws into order and action... To become complete and comprehensible, a cosmological theory has to start with a primordial Substance diffused throughout boundless Space, of an intellectual and divine Nature. That substance must be the Soul and Spirit, the Synthesis and 7th Principle of the manifested Kosmos, and to serve as a spiritual Upadhi to this, there must be the 6th, its vehicle--primordial physical matter...though its nature must for ever escape our limited normal senses." SD I 59 From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Feb 02 04:55:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 12:55:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 71937 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 12:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 12:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 12:55:50 -0000 Received: from pool0094.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.152.94] helo=earthlink) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Wzhk-00021j-00; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 04:55:41 -0800 To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: Part I = Adepts - Masters - Mahatmas -- HOW THEY WORK Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 04:48:07 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 PART I Adepts - Masters -- Mahatmas = THEIR WORK Saturday, February 02, 2002 Dear Friends: Some mention of the Masters of Wisdom and their influence on the world came up this week. I seemed to me interesting to look into what was said by the original writers on Theosophical subjects. Here are some of their views Divided into Part I and Part II Best wishes, Dallas ====================================================== PART I PART I Adepts -- Masters - Mahatmas = THEIR WORK A few quotations on:-- A D E P T W O R K I ==================================== INSPIRING EXAMPLE OF H P B and MASTERS BEHIND HER "...the [ Theosophical ] movement has grown in consequence of the effort of those who are devoted to an ideal, inspired by enthusiasm, filled with a lasting gratitude to H. P. Blavatsky. Their ideal is the service of Humanity, the ultimate potential perfectibility of man as exemplified by the Masters and Adepts of all ages, including the present." WQJ ART II 21 NATURE OF ADEPTS' WORK -- "CYCLES OF WOE" "...the cycles of woe (undergone by the Arhan who remains to help mankind), it is easy to understand...terms must be used which the reader will understand...hence...(from our standpoint) it must be said that there are such cycles of woe...just as the fact that I [W.Q.Judge] have no amusements, and nothing but work in the T.S., seems a great penance to those who like their pleasures. I, on the contrary, take pleasure and peace in the "self-denial," as they call it. Therefore, it must follow that he who enters the secret Path finds his peace and pleasure in endless work for ages for Humanity. But, of course with his added sight and knowledge, he must always be seeing the self-inflicted miseries of men. The mistake you make is to give the person thus "sacrificed" the small qualities and longings as we now have, whereas the wider sweep and power of soul make what we call sacrifice and woe something different." WQJ LETTERS p. 116 MASTERS TO MANAGE "RESULTS" "...what was long ago said--that the Master would manage results. You must not manage, precipitate, nor force...By gentleness, detachment, strict attention to duty, and retiring now and then to the quiet place, bring up good currents...Remember it is through the little things the work is done through, for they are not noticed, while the lager ones draw the eyes and minds of all...A steady mind and heart stands still and quiet until the muddy stream rolls clear." WQJ LETTERS p. 84 THE "ROYAL KNOWLEDGE" -- [ of the RAJA-RISHEES ] from the GITA "This is the royal knowledge, the royal mystery, the most excellent purifier, clearly comprehensible, not opposed to sacred law, easy to perform and inexhaustible..."All this universe is pervaded by me in my invisible form; all things exist in me, but I do not exist in them. Nor are all things in me; behold this my divine mystery: myself causing all things to exist and supporting them all but dwelling not in them. Understand that all things are in me even as the mighty air which passeth everywhere is in space...at the end of a kalpa all things return into my nature, and then again at the beginning of another kalpa I cause them to evolve again. Taking control of my own nature I emanate again and again this whole assemblage of beings, without their will, by the power of the material essence (Prakriti)..." GITA P. 64-5 "There dwelleth in the heart of every being...the Master--Ishwara--who by his magic power causeth all things and creatures to revolve, mounted upon the universal wheel of time. Take sanctuary with him alone..." GITA p. 130 "There is nothing...in the three regions of the universe which it is necessary for me to perform, nor anything possible to obtain, which I have not obtained; and yet I am constantly in action. If I were not indefatigable in action, all men would presently follow my example ... If I did not perform actions these creatures would perish; I should be the cause of confusion of castes, and should have slain all these creatures." GITA 25 ADEPT ASSISTANCE "...Masters are working in many ways, and through many organizations as well as with individuals. There are no barriers to Their assistance, except such as personalities impose upon themselves. Their work is universal; let our view be as much in that direction as possible. So shall we best serve and know." RC FP p. 5 MASTERS' PROGRAM "There must be an adherence to the program of the Masters. That can only be ascertained by consulting her [HPB] and the letters given out by her as from Those to whom she refers. There is not much doubt about that program."..."This is the moment to guide the recurrent impulse which must soon come and which will push the age toward extreme atheism or drag it back to extreme sacerdotalism, if it is not led to the primitive, soul-satisfying philosophy of the Aryans."..."We must follow this program and supply the world with a system of philosophy which gives a sure and logical basis for ethics, and that can only be gotten from those to which I have adverted."..."By our unity the smallest effort made by us will have ten-fold the power of any obstacle before us or any opposition offered by the world."..."Our destiny is to continue the wide work of the past in affecting literature and thought throughout the world, while our ranks see many changing quantities but always holding those who remain true to the program, and refuse to become dogmatic or give up common sense in Theosophy. Thus we will wait for the new messenger, striving to keep the organization alive that he may use it." WQJ - THE FUTURE AND THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY - quoted by RC, FP p. 153 -- [WQJ ART II p. 145-6] HPB ON ADEPT WORK "The real ones [Adepts] have a wide work to do in many departments of life and in preparing certain persons who have a future work to do. Though their influence is wide they are not suspected, and that is the way they want to work for the present. There are some also who are at work with certain individuals in some of the aboriginal tribes in America, as among those are Egos who are to do still more work in another incarnation, and they must be prepared for it now. Nothing is omitted by these Adepts. in Europe it is the same way, each sphere of work being governed by the time and the place." WQJ ART I 432-3 TOTAL EVOLUTION : -- THE INDIVIDUAL CHOICE FOR THE GOAL -- SPIRITUAL TRAINING "The process of evolution up to reunion with the Divine is and includes successive elevation from rank to rank of power and usefulness. The most exalted beings still in the flesh are known as Sages, Rishis, Brothers, Masters. Their great functions being the preservation at all times, and when cyclic laws permit, the extension of spiritual knowledge and influence. As to the process of spiritual development, Theosophy teaches: 1. That the essence of the process lies in the securing of supremacy to the highest, the spiritual, element of man's nature. 2. That this is attained along 4 lines, among others, -- A. The entire eradication of selfishness in all forms, and the cultivation of broad, generous sympathy in, and effort for the good of others. B. The absolute cultivation of the inner, spiritual man by meditation, by reaching to and communion with the Divine [within], and by exercise of the kind described by Patanjali, i.e., incessant striving to an ideal end. C. The control of fleshly appetites and desires, all lower, material interests being deliberately subordinated to the behests of the spirit. D. The careful performance of every duty belonging to one's station in life, without desire for reward, leaving results for Divine law. 3. That while the above is incumbent on and practicable by all religiously disposed men, a yet higher plane of spiritual attainment is conditioned upon a specific course of training, physical, intellectual and spiritual, by which the internal faculties are first aroused and then developed. 4. That an extension of this process is reached in Arhatship, Mahatmaship, or the states of Rishis, Sages and Dhyan Chohans, which are all exalted stages, attained by laborious self-discipline and hardship protracted through possibly many incarnations, and with many degrees of initiation and preferment, beyond which are yet other stages ever approaching the Divine. As to the rationale of spiritual development it asserts: 1. That the process takes place entirely within the individual himself, the motive, the effort, and the result proceeding from his own inner nature, along the lines of self-evolution. 2. That still more is gained by a career of duty, piety and beneficence. 3. That a still greater advance is attained by the attentive and devoted use of the means to spiritual culture heretofore stated. 4. That every race and individual of it reaches in evolution a period known as "the moment of choice," when they decided for themselves their future by a deliberate and conscious choice between eternal life and death, and that this right of choice is the peculiar appanage of the free soul. It cannot be exercised until the man has realized the soul within him, and until that soul has attained some measure of self-consciousness in the body. The moment of choice is not a fixed period of time; it is made up of all moments. It cannot come unless all previous lives have led up to it. For the race as a whole it has not yet come. Any individual can hasten the advent of this period for himself under the previously stated law of the ripening of Karma. Should he then fail to choose right he is not wholly condemned, for the economy of nature provides that he shall again and again have the opportunity of choice when the moment arrives for the whole race..." WQJ -- AN EPITOME 25-27 ADEPT COMMUNICATIONS -- INNER EYE & EAR "They have disciples with whom communication is already established and carried on, most generally through the inner ear and eye, but sometimes through the prosaic mail...no one else is involved and no one else has the right to put questions...To spread broadcast a mass of written communications among those who are willing to accept them without knowing how to judge them would be the sheerest folly, only productive of superstition and blind credulity. This is not the aim of the Adepts, nor the method they pursue." WQJ ART I 452 WHERE ARE THE ADEPTS ? "Now, as the great Adepts live in the plane of our inner nature, it must follow that they might be actively helping every one of us after the date [1897-98] referred to, and we, as physical brain men, not be conscious of it on this plane." WQJ ART II 506 "Fix your thoughts again on Those Elder Brothers, work for Them, serve Them, and They will help through the right appropriate means and no other. To meditate on the Higher Self is difficult. Seek, then, the bridge--the Masters... Those who know the Truth will teach it. Give up doubt..." WQJ LETTERS p. 112 DISCIPLES' ATTITUDE "I am glad that you have such faith in the Great workers who are behind us. They are behind us, to my personal knowledge, and not behind me only, but behind all sincere workers. I know that their desire is that each should listen to the voice of his inner self and not depend too much on outside people, whether they be Masters, Eastern disciples or what not. By a dependence of that kind you become at last thoroughly independent, and then the unseen helpers are able to help all the more." WQJ LETTERS p. 112-3 "Those who can to any extent assimilate the Master, to that extent they are the representative of the Master, and have the help of the Lodge in its work." WQJ LETTERS p. 113 AVATARS WORK TO RESTORE BALANCE AND THRUST OF EVOLUTION "...the doctrine, well-known in India, of the reappearance of Avatars...all admit that the true doctrine is stated by Krishna [see above]. These appearances among men for the purpose of restoring the equilibrium are not the same as the rule of Vivaswata and Manu first spoken of, but are the coming to earth of Avatars or Saviors. That there is a periodicity to them is stated in the words "from age to age." He is here speaking of the great cycles about which hitherto the Masters have been silent except to say that there are such great cycles. It is very generally admitted now that the cyclic law is of the highest importance in the consideration of evolution and Man's destiny. But the coming of an Avatar must be strictly in accordance with natural law,--and that law demands that at the time of such an event there also appears a being who represents the other pole--, for, as Krishna says, the great law of the two opposites is eternally present it the world... The number of magicians developed among the nations at such a time is very great, but one towers above them all, making the rest pay tribute...[this is] a sober truth, and the present prevalence of self-seeking and money-getting is exactly the sort of training of certain qualities that black magicians will exemplify in ages to come. The Krishna--or howsoever named--appears "in visible shape, a man with men." His power is as great as the evil one, but he has on his side what the others have not--spirit, preservative, conservative forces. With these he is able to engage in conflict with the black magicians, and in it he is assisted by all of us who are really devoted to Brotherhood. The result is a victory for the good and destruction for the wicked." WQJ GITA NOTES pp. 106-9 ADEPT WORK: ASSISTING ALL GOOD MOVEMENTS and INDIVIDUALS Q.:-- "What then are the Adepts doing? A.:-- (a) Assisting all good movements by acting on men from behind the scenes through mental influence. (b) Preparing as many men and women who are fit for it so that they may, in their next incarnation, appear in the world as active devotees to the good of the Human Family. (c) Spreading now, through impulses given in many places which must not be mention, a philosophy of life which will gradually affect the race mind, and in particular the active, conquering Western peoples, thus preparing the whole people to change and evolve yet further and further until evils disappear and better days and people reappear." WQJ ARTICLES II 53-4 THE ETERNAL EXAMPLE OF ACHIEVEMENT: THE GREAT SACRIFICE "...he is the mysterious (to the profane--the ever invisible) yet ever present Personage about whom legends are rife in the East, especially among the Occultists and the students of the Sacred Science. It is he who changes form, yet remains ever the same. And it is he again who holds spiritual sway over the initiated Adepts throughout the whole world. He is, as said, the "Nameless One" who has so many names, and yet whose names and whose very nature are unknown. He is the "Initiator," called the "GREAT SACRIFICE." For sitting at the threshold of LIGHT, he looks into it from within the circle of Darkness, which he will not cross; nor will he quit his post till the last day of this life-cycle. Why...Because the lonely, sore-footed pilgrims on their way back to their home are never sure to the last moment of not losing their way in this limitless desert of illusion and matter called Earth-Life. Because he would fain show the way to that region of freedom and light, from which he is a voluntary exile himself, to every prisoner who has succeeded in liberating himself from the bonds of flesh and illusion. Because, in short, he has sacrificed himself for the sake of mankind, though but a few Elect may profit by the GREAT SACRIFICE. It is under the direct, silent guidance of this MAHA--(great)--GURU that all the other less divine Teachers and instructors of mankind became, from the first awakening of human consciousness, the guides of early Humanity. It is through these "Sons of God" that infant humanity got its first notions of all the arts and sciences, as well as of spiritual knowledge; and it is they who have laid the first foundation-stone of those ancient civilizations that puzzle so sorely our modern generation of students and scholars." SD I 207-8 LIGHTING UP OF MANAS ( The HUMAN MIND ) -- DEVOTION "...divine man dwelt in his animal--though externally human--form; and, if there was instinct in him, no self-consciousness came to enlighten the darkness of the latent 5th principle [Manas]. When moved by the law of Evolution, the Lords of Wisdom infused into him the spark of consciousness, the first feeling it awoke to life and activity was a sense of solidarity, of one-ness with his spiritual creators. As the child's first feeling is for its mother and nurse, so the first aspirations of the awakening consciousness in primitive man were for those whose element he felt within himself, and who yet were outside, and independent of him. DEVOTION arose out of that feeling, and became the first and foremost motor in his nature; for it is the only one which is natural in our heart, which is innate in us, and which we find alike in human babe and the young of the animal. This feeling of irrepressible, instinctive aspiration in primitive man ..." SD I 210 INNATE - INHERENT IDEAS FROM "PLANETARY SPIRITS" "Up to the period marked by the first earthly King called Ikshwaku, the Ruler was a spiritual Being whom all men knew to be such, for his power, glory, benevolence, and wisdom were evident. He lived an immense number of years, and taught men not only Yoga but also arts and sciences. The ideas implanted then, having been set in motion by one who knew all the laws, remain as inherent ideas to this day...(105) They are preserved by the uneducated masses, who, having no scholastic theories to divert their minds, keep up what is left of the succession of ideas." GITA NOTES p. 104-5 "Alone the adepts, i.e., the embodied spirits--are forbidden by our wise and intransgressible laws to completely subject to themselves another and weaker will,--that of free born man. The latter mode of proceeding is the favorite one resorted to by the "Brothers of the Shadow," the Sorcerers, the Elementary Spooks, and, as an isolated exception--by the highest Planetary (41) Spirits, those, who can no longer err. But those appear on Earth but at the origin of every new human kind; at the junction of, and close of the two ends of the great cycle. And, they remain with man no longer than the time required for the eternal truths they teach to impress themselves so forcibly upon the plastic minds or the new race as to warrant them from being lost or entirely forgotten in ages hereafter, by the forthcoming generations. The mission of the planetary Spirits is but to strike the KEY-NOTE OF TRUTH. Once he has directed the vibration of the latter to run its course uninterruptedly along the catenation of that race and to the end of the cycle--the denizen of the highest inhabited sphere disappears from the surface of our planet--till the following "resurrection of flesh." The vibrations of the Primitive Truth are what your philosophers name "innate ideas." M.L. 40-1 "...the primeval one Truth, taught humanity in the infancy of its races by every First Messenger--the Planetary Spirit mentioned [above]--and whose (49) remembrance lingered in the memory of man as Elu of the Chaldees, Osiris the Egyptian, Vishnu, the first Buddhas and so on." M.L. 48-9 "...Truth is One, and cannot admit of diametrically opposite views; and pure Spirits who see it as it is, with the veil of matter entirely withdrawn from it cannot err. Now, if we allow of different aspects or portions of the Whole Truth being visible to different agencies or intelligences, each under various conditions, as for example various portions of the one landscape develop themselves to various persons at various distances and from various standpoints--if we admit the fact of...individual Brothers for instance endeavoring to develop the Egos of different individuals, without subjecting entirely their wills to their own (as it is forbidden) but by availing themselves of their physical, moral, and intellectual idiosyncrasies; if we add the countless kosmical influences which distort and deflect all efforts to achieve definite purposes; if we remember, moreover, the direct hostility of the Brethren of the Shadow always on the watch to perplex and haze the neophyte's brain, I think we shall have no difficulty in understanding how even a definite spiritual advance may to a certain extent lead different individuals to apparently different conclusions and theories." M.L. 49 INCARNATION AN ACT OF SACRIFICE FOR THE MIND-MEN TO BE "...The Host of Dhyanis, whose turn it was to incarnate as the Egos of the immortal, but, on this plane, senseless monads--that some "obeyed" (the law of evolution) immediately when the men of the 3rd Race became physiologically and physically ready, i.e., when they had separated into sexes. These were those early conscious Beings who, now adding conscious knowledge and will to their inherent Divine purity, created by Kriyasakti the semi-Divine man, who became the seed on earth for future adepts. Those, on the other hand, who, jealous of their intellectual freedom (unfettered as it then was by the bonds of matter), said:--"We can choose...we have wisdom,"...and incarnated far later--these had their first Karmic punishment prepared for them. They got bodies (physiologically) inferior to their astral models, because their chhayas had belonged to progenitors of an inferior degree in the 7 classes. As to those "Sons of Wisdom" who had "deferred" their incarnation till the 4th Race, which was already tainted (physiologically) with sin and impurity, they produced a terrible cause, the Karmic result of which weighs on them to this day...the bodies they had to inform had become defiled through their own procrastination...This was the "Fall of the angels," because of their rebellion against Karmic Law. The "fall of man" was no fall, for he was irresponsible..." SD II 228 "CREATION" and the "CREATORS" "...as the work of each Round is said to be apportioned to a different group of so-called "Creators" or "Architects," so is that of every globe; i.e., it is under the supervision and guidance of special "Builders" and "Watchers"--the various Dhyan-Chohans...It becomes the task of the 5th Hierarchy--the mysterious beings that preside over the constellation Capricornus, Makara, or "Crocodile" in India as in Egypt--to inform the empty and ethereal animal form and make of it a Rational Man...Many are those among the Spiritual Entities, who have incarnated bodily in man, since the beginning of his appearance, and who, for all that, still exist as independently as they did before, in the infinitudes of Space...the invisible Entity may be bodily present on earth without abandoning, however, its status and functions in the supersensuous regions..." SD I 233 "...this philosophy of cycles...was allegorized by the Egyptian Hierophants in the "circle of necessity," explains at the same time the allegory of the "Fall of man." ...each of the 7 chambers of the Pyramids...was known by the name of a planet. The peculiar architecture of the Pyramids shows in itself the drift of the metaphysical thought of their builders. The apex is lost in the clear blue sky...and typifies the primordial (297) point lost in the unseen universe from which started the first race of the spiritual prototypes of man...Divine spirit being considered a unity, however numerous the rays of the great spiritual sun, man has still had his origins like all other forms, whether organic or otherwise, in this one Fount of Eternal Light..." ISIS I 296 - 297 ============================================== From bri_mue@yahoo.com Sat Feb 02 06:05:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bri_mue@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 14:05:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 20266 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 14:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 14:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.62) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 14:05:51 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.152] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2002 14:05:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:05:46 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Genuine or invented Orient, part II. Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 12289 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bri_mue" X-Originating-IP: 202.183.228.67 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=62965613 X-Yahoo-Profile: bri_mue Steve: "It should also be said that nothing that happened post 1891 can reasonably be blamed on Blavatsky, including the unseemly power struggles and phony mahatma letters that came from Judge and his two spirit mediums." Brigitte: No, it has to do with a particular mindset , there is a tendency to take any particular system, project it on the outside world (like looking through glasses in a particular color), and next in the desire for it to be everything, try to blend, talk away (or in the worst case scenario condemn) the things that now suddenly don't fit anymore. Many people for example have not educated themselves to distinquish between 19th century psuedo-Sanskrit and Blavatskyan pseudo-Buddhism (touted by many as "hidden" teaching from Tibet). I will as an example have a look at the influence of Blavatskyan Theosophy on hand of a student of Theosophy, Evans-Wentz. At the turn of the century Walter Wentz moved to California, where in 1901 he joined the American Section of the Theosophical Society. Headquartered in Point Loma, it was headed by Katherine Tingley, known as the "Purple Mother." At Tingley's urging, he enrolled at Stanford, where he studied with William James and William Butler Yeats. (Yeats had joined the Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society in 1888 only to be expelled by Madame Blavatsky two years later.) After graduating from Stanford, Wentz went to Jesus College Oxford to study Celtic folklore. It was there that he added a family name from his mother's side to his surname and became Walter Evans- Wentz. After completing his thesis, later published as The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries (1911). The most famous book of Evans-Wentz however was going to become "TheTibetan Book of the Dead" 1927. Though a student of several prominent neo-Vedantin teatchers, including Sri Yuketswar and Ramana Maharshi, Evans-Wentz never seems to have been a devotee of Tibetan Buddhism. Of his relationship with Kazi Dawa-Samdup, Evans-Wentzs biographer writes: "The few letters that have survived that they exchanged show a surprisingly distant and formal tone. Even in Dawa-Samdup's diaries there is no word to suggest other wise. There is nothing at all foreshadowing the later declarations that the Lama was the guru of Walter Evans-Wentz, nothing about the "teachings" the American was supposed to have received. His book "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" therefore must be read with his commitment to Theosophy in mind. It is of significance that Evans-Wentz begins the introduction by claiming a "relationship between the Bardo Thodel and the Egyptian book of the dead. A referrence to this becomes clear if one considers one of the Mahatma letters published by Blavatsky in "Lucifer" 1894 an no Tibetan scolar of the 19th century or thereafter would have written: "The Egyptian enchorial or hieratic system is child's play to the deschipering of our sacred puzzles. Even in those volumes to wich the masses have accesss, every sentence has a dual meaning." It is indeed true that one quarter of the 1fifteen hunderd pages of the 1888 "The Secret Doctrine" is concerned with symbolism, but wich doesn't necessary help clarify the true meaning of vrious religions as we shall see in case of Evans-Wentz and the "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" Part of Blavatsky's legitimacy as an Esoteric spokesperson lies in autobiographical sections of her writings, notably a story told in Isis according to which she visited Tibet and witnessed a variety of miraculous events. (IU II:598 ff.) S.B. Liljegren , mentions that Blavatsky's story was plagiarized from Evariste Huc's account. In 1844, two French priests, Evariste Huc and Father Gabet, entered Tibet. They were the first to write a detailed account of the country, published in 1850. Translated into English as "Recollections of Travel in Tartary, Tibet and China", and trough Blavatsky's appropriation of part of their narrative, claiming it to be her own travels, they would come to influence the modern Esoteric Trations. If Blavatsky had really travelled to Tibet or any part near to it, she could have written her own travel account and didn't need to copy that of someone else. However this shows a general tendency in occult psuedo historiography, each country referred to seems to have its own role in esoteric historiography. Egypt is the land of initiation, of great mysteries; India is the source of concepts such as reincarnation, karma and the subtle bodies; Tibet plays the role of the homeland of sages and the repository of ancient scriptures. However the distincrion between an Egyptian tradition and one based on a generalized india, is a scolarly construction. The Enlightenment philosophes already had rejected the old order, wether Christian or Hermeticist. It was part of the project of a revived esotericism of the end of the 18th century to attempt to support the pre-Enlightenment claim to Egypt as a fountainhaed of wisdom as part of a historical misconception. In the Mahatma Letters Egypt is seen as one of a series of historic cultures to have transmitted elements of this "primeval" wisdom religion. But Blavatsky had already begun to orient her religious creativity further east, towards the Indian subcontinent. The shift is underpinned mythologically by the assumption that the Egyptians were actually descendants of the aryans, whose spiritual traditions should thus represent a purer form of the ancient wisdom religion. Blavatsky there however rather then by Tibetan "Masters" was inspired by among others Jacolliot's presentation of India as the crucible of "Aryan" civilisation and religion ,placed in India as the first Brahmins, influenced Blavatsky. It is known she possessed his books, and that she quoted liberally - often without acknowledgment - from his Indophile fancyings. Olcott noted that Jacolliot's "twenty-seven volumes" were among those works of which Blavatsky "made great use" while writing Isis Unveiled: Olcott, Old Diary Leaves,p. 207. James Webb noted that "Jacolliot's works furnished H. P. Blavatsky with no less than fifty-nine plagiarized passages:" Webb, The Occult Establishment,p. 306. One of Evans-Wentz's creative contributions and the point least likely to have been endorsed by "the late Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup," and most especially, by Dawa-Samdup's teacher, but instead gleaned from Blavatsky's Theosophical invention, is the interpretation of the doctrine of rebirth. Rebirth as a god or human in the realm of desire is the result of a virtuous deed, and is considered very rare; the vast majority of beings in the universe are said to inhabit the three unfortunate realms of animals, ghosts, and the hells. Rarer still is rebirth as a human who has access to the teachings of the Buddha. In a famous analogy, a single blind tortoise is said to swim in a vast ocean, surfacing for air only once every century. On the surface of the ocean floats a single golden yoke. It is rarer, said the Buddha, to be reborn as a human with the opportunity to practice the dharma than it is for the tortoise to surface for its centennial breath with its head through the hole in the golden yoke. One is said to be reborn as a god in the realm of desire as a result of an act of charity: giving gifts results in future wealth. Rebirth as a human is said to result from consciously refraining from a nonvirtuous deed, as when one takes a vow not to kill humans. The greater part of Buddhist practice throughout Asia and throughout history has been directed toward securing rebirth as a human or (preferably) a god in the next lifetime, generally through acts of charity directed toward monks and monastic institutions. For Evans-Wentz, however, this is only the exoteric teaching; "the esoteric doctrine is quite different." It appears that Evans-Wentz held to the conviction throughout his life that in Buddhism rebirth as an animal is impossible, referring readers of his 1954 "Tibeatan Book of the Great Liberation and his 1958 "Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines" to his exposition in "The Tibetan book of the death." Commenting on an incident in the life of Padmansambhava in "The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation"in which Padma Tsalag is reborn as a fly, Evans-Wentz explains, "While the many, the exotericists, may accept this strange folk-tale literally, the more spiritually advanced of the Great Guru's devotees interpret it symbolically, as they do very much else in the Biography as a whole, the fly being to them significant of the undesirable characteristics of the unbridled sensuality associated with Padma Tsalag." But if this is the true teaching, why does the Bardo Thodol appear to teach otherwise? "The Bardo ThUdol, as a Doctrine of Death and Rebirth, seems to have existed at first unrecorded, like almost all sacred books now recorded in Pali, Sanskrit, or Tibetan, and was a growth of unknown centuries. Then by the time it had fully developed and been set down in writing no doubt it had lost something of its primitive purity. By its very nature and religious usage, the Bardo Th6dol would have been very susceptible to the influence of the popular or exoteric view; and in our opinion it did fall under it, in such manner as to attempt the impossible, namely, the harmonizing of the two interpretations. Nevertheless, its original esotericism is still discernible and predominant" Thus, it seems that even the sacred teachings of the lamas, preserved for centuries in Tibet (Evans-Wentz argues, in contrast to Govinda, that the essentials of the text are pre-Buddhist in origin (perhaps deriving from the Atlantean age), were subject to degeneration when the esoteric knowledge was committed to writing; the higher teaching of the Bardo Thodol is confused, perhaps, "because of corruptions of text". But the true meaning is still accessible: if the "Buddhist and Hindu exotericists re-read their own Scriptures in light of the Science of Symbols their opposition to Esotericism would probably be given up" Thus, the Bardo Thodol is a reshaping of ancient teachings handed down orally over the centuries, recording the belief of countless generations concerning the postmortem state. Once written down, corruptions inevitably crept into the text, such that it cannot be accurate in all details. Yet it remains scientific in its essentials. "In its broad outlines, however, it seems to convey a sublime truth, heretofore veiled to many students of religion, a philosophy as subtle as that of Plato, and a Psychical science far in advance of that, still in its infancy, which forms the study of the Society for Psychical Research [which had condemned Madame Blavatsky as a fraud]. And, as such, it deserves the serious attention of the Western World, now awakening to a New Age, freed, in large measure, from the incrustations of medievalism, and eager to garner wisdom from all the Sacred Books of Mankind, be they of one Faith or another" Paul Johnson: Theosophists have long been perceived as foolish for holding to "all religions are one" in a simplistic way. Other traditions of eclecticism/syncretism face the same problems, e.g. Cayce and the ARE. More so, the Baha'is who force Gautama into the pattern of monotheistic lawgiving prophet despite the protests of Buddhists. "All religions are one" is an admirable perception at the level of the heart or the third eye: we feel ourselves one with followers of all religions, we intuitively sense the oneness of humanity and the cosmos. But at the level of the "eye doctrine" it's folly. That is, to take the "all one" belief as license for equating different teachings from different cultures (in a decontextualized manner) leads into great confusion and anachronism in terms of historical understanding. Brigitte: Yes indeed, anybody who studies these in earnest, ask anybody who has a degree in say Hinduism, Tibetology, or/and especially comparative religion, like James Santucci who not a theosophist himself is indeed sympathetic towards it, and they will tell you its "not" all the same. Brigitte From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Feb 02 08:59:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 16:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17737 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 16:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 16:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.58) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 16:59:07 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.125] by n8.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2002 16:59:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:59:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Steve Stubbs: ". . . if chicanery is a plausible explanation. . . ." Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020130211017.68031.qmail@web9604.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5957 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "danielhcaldwell" X-Originating-IP: 169.197.11.70 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Thanks, Steve, for your comments. I will make a few more comments after I finish another posting. Daniel H. Caldwell Esoteric World of Madame Blavatsky http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworldam.htm --- In theos-talk@y..., Steve Stubbs wrote: > Daniel: "Steve, if I understand your reasoning, you > are maintaining that these two incidents CANNOT be > plausibly explained away as instances of chicanery. > If this could be sucessfully done, then the two > incidents would have to be classified in the category > of "not evidence of anything". Instead you contend > these two accounts are in the other category of > "scientific evidence". Right? > > Almost. What I said is that they baffle me, and > therefore look like excellent candidates for > scientific evidence, whereas the Ootan Liatto and > Hartmann stories are not candidates at all. One of > them was carefully observed by a trained observer > (i.e., the Gephart incident). What is required is for > someone with the skill level of David Copperfield to > give a more competent opinion. > > Steve > > --- danielhcaldwell wrote: > > SUBJECT: Steve Stubbs: ". . . if chicanery is a > > plausible > > explanation, then the story is not evidence of > > anything. . . ." > > > > In several postings, Steve, you have tried to draw a > > DEFINITE > > DISTINCTION between (1) Blavatsky-related phenomena > > that you consider > > as "not evidence of anything" and (2) > > Blavatsky-related phenomena > > that in fact "constitutes scientific evidence". The > > gist of your > > argument and reasoning can be found in the following > > four excerpts > > from your postings: > > > > (1) "The historical problem is. . . whether a > > specific alleged > > phenomenon was produced under conditions which would > > exclude > > chicanery as a plausible alternative explanation. > > That is not to say > > that the phenomenon WAS produced by chicanery, but > > if chicanery is a > > plausible explanation, then the story is not > > evidence of > > anything. . . . > > [Quoted from > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4210 > > ] > > > > (2) ". . . I said some months ago that there were > > two [Blavatsky- > > related] phenomena which seemed to satisfy the > > requirements for > > constituting scientific evidence. . . . The Ootan > > Liatto story is not > > one of them. Nor is the account by Hartmann that you > > published." > > [Quoted from > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4253 > > ] > > > > (3) "If the [miracle] stories [of Blavatsky] > > indicate that the > > conditions were poorly controlled, the miracles may > > be real, but the > > stories do not constitute scientific evidence. The > > Hartmann story is > > clearly in this category. So is the Ootan Liatto > > story." > > [Quoted from > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4420 > > ] > > > > [The Ooton Liatto story can be found at: > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/olcottooton.htm > > The Hartmann story is at the very bottom of the page > > at: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4421 > > ] > > > > In response to these three statments, I wrote: > > > > "Steve, please briefly cite the TWO CASES regarding > > Blavatsky's > > phenomena that . . . you think constitute > > 'scientific evidence'." > > > > Steve,you replied: > > > > (4) "One of them occurred at the Gephard house and > > is outlined in > > Sinnett's INCIDENTS. It involved the reported > > materialization of a > > letter and was very carefully observed by a trained > > conjurer, who > > said he saw no evidence of chicanery." [For this > > account, see > > > http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter14/ > > Narrative 14b ] > > > > "The other was reported by both Sinnett and Olcott > > and described in > > great detail by both. It involved the reported > > materialization of > > dishes which were dug from the ground. Tree roots > > were said to have > > grown thickly around the stuff in question, and the > > ground was > > undisturbed, meaning (1) the dishes were there for > > some very > > considerable period of time, or (2) the phenomenon > > must have been > > real." [For these accounts, see Sinnett at: > > > http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter10/ > > Narrative 10a and Olcott at: > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/olcott01.htm ] > > > > "Both of those accounts impress me, which is another > > way of saying > > they baffle me. . . . Most of the rest are quite > > easily explained." > > [Quoted from > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4449 > > ] > > > > Steve, if I understood your reasoning and thinking > > on this issue, > > you are saying that the cup and saucer and the > > Gebhard letter > > incidents CANNOT plausibly be explained away as: > > > > (1) some kind of hallucination caused by drugs > > > > (2) a faked and staged event (like your "planting of > > the > > Hartmann letter" explanation) or > > > > (3) by some other "plausible alternative > > explanation". > > > > Steve, if I understand your reasoning, you are > > maintaining that these > > two incidents CANNOT be plausibly explained away as > > instances of > > chicanery. If this could be sucessfully done, then > > the two incidents > > would have to be classified in the category of "not > > evidence of > > anything". Instead you contend these two accounts > > are in the other > > category of "scientific evidence". > > > > Right? > > > > Daniel H. Caldwell > > BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/introduction.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com From gschueler@earthlink.net Sat Feb 02 09:03:28 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 17:03:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 38762 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 17:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 17:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.80) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 17:03:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28259 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Feb 2002 17:03:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20020202170323.28258.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [68.33.154.217] by ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for gschueler@earthlink.net; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:03:23 +0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:03:23 +0800 Subject: Hierarchies X-Originating-Server: ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com From: "Gerald Schueler" X-Originating-IP: 68.33.154.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=45899108 Brigitte: "The truly ideal state was a spiritual aristocracy that recognized that all men were not born equal, that there were older as well as younger brothers in the human family.>>> G de Purucker wrote that Theosophy has seven major teachings, and one of these is the doctrine of hierarhcies. When this doctrine of inequality in manifestation addresses reincarnation it is clear that we are not all equal. In fact, the very mayavic notion of being a separate self allows for such inequalities. We may be equal spiritually but not physically or mentally, and this idea is indeed, the logical fallout of Blavatsky's evolutionary scheme. Jerry S. -- From gschueler@earthlink.net Sat Feb 02 09:21:39 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 17:21:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 56923 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 17:21:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 17:21:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.80) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 17:21:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 15037 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Feb 2002 17:21:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20020202172138.15036.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [68.33.154.217] by ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for gschueler@earthlink.net; Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:21:38 +0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 01:21:38 +0800 Subject: Homogenized Buddhism X-Originating-Server: ws2-5.us4.outblaze.com From: "Gerald Schueler" X-Originating-IP: 68.33.154.217 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=45899108 <<>> Agreed, but perhaps this was done deliberately, trying to give out to the public what they thought it could handle/understand. This problem has surfaced recently, and many high ranking Tibetans are facing this dilimna: To authorize the publication of previously secret documents and texts and let them fall into the hands of the credulous or to let these teachings die out. As a result (I guess I have to thank China for this one) we are now getting some really deep/profound Tibetan teachings which otherwise we in the West would never know about. In Blavatsky's day there was no such time crunch, and no need to give out more than the public could understand. Besides, even within Tibetan Buddhism, it is typical to begin with Pali ethics, proceed to sutrayama, and, if qualified, go on to vajrayana, and then, if qualified, to Dzogchen. In short, generic ideas may have been given out in the MLs deliberately with the intention of letting the more perceptive student delve into the actual teachings on their own. Jerry S. -- From eldon@theosophy.com Sat Feb 02 10:21:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 18:21:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 70014 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 18:21:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 18:21:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 18:21:27 -0000 Received: from SCRIBE.theosophy.com (unknown [167.167.191.36]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717104911 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:19:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020202101757.009f80c0@theosophy.com> X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 10:18:56 -0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: The February 2002 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-eGroups-From: Theosophy World Editor From: Theosophy World Editor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy of THEOSOPHY WORLD yesterday. I'm sending a copy of this notice in case you did not get your copy. Some email services block messages with attachments. Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services like Yahoo Groups when getting overloaded. If you did not get your issue, you can get it online (or write and I can email you another copy.) -- Eldon Tucker ---- attached notice ---- The February 2002 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 68th issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "God is Law," by B.P. Wadia "World Trees," by Hazel Minot "The Voice of Conscience," by A Student "The Detours," by Victor Endersby "Ariadne's Thread," Part I, by Hazel S. Minot "The Absolute and the Infinite," Part I, by G. de Purucker "In the Beginning," by Hazel Minot "A Talk by the Euphrates," by George William Russell "Death and After-Death States, Part II, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The January/February 2002 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST has been out for a month. The current issue contains: "The Sutra on Eight Realizations of the Great Beings" "Nyaya" "Atomistic Philosophy of Vaisesika" "An Outline of the Buddhism of Tibet" "Willy Schmit Writes From the Hague" "Discussion on Lineages" "SECRET DOCTRINE Question and Answer Section" "Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" "Abstracts of The High Country Theosophist" The bimonthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country ---- The 16th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated February 17, 2002, is out. (It goes out at the start of the month, although it is dated the 17th.) The issue contains: "Intellect and Ethics" "The Origin of Evil" "A Pilgrim's Odyssey" "Ideas Rule the World" "Unity and Application" "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" "The Coffee Klatch" "Dnyaneshvarti -- XV" "The Global Village" "Point out the Way -- XV" "Silent Night" "The Inductive Power of a Good Example" "Terrorism and Religion" The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is available in Microsoft Word or pdf formats. To request a sample issue, or get a free subscription, write: mailto:ultinla@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------- SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY WORLD magazine: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk ---- * mahat@yahoogroups.com To present theosophical materials that go beyond the printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the availability of such. The most recent addition is a talk on Paracelsus given by Elsie Benjamin, Personal Secretary to G. de Purucker, International President of the Theosophical Society [Point Loma] from 1929 to 1942. The talk was given October 10, 1972. (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and played on one's home computer.) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat ---- * young-theosophists@yahoogroups.com For young theosophists, not restricted to the physically young, but anyone interested in theosophical ideas and is young at heart. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/young-theosophists ---- * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com In the Dutch language: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep ---- * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study ---- * theos-l@list.vnet.net A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l ---- * bn-basic@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) introductory study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-study@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) general study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-sd@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: http://www.blavatsky.net From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Sat Feb 02 10:29:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 4567 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9601.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.129.180) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20020202182925.31923.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.202.57.13] by web9601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 10:29:25 PST Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 10:29:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Theos-World Genuine or invented Orient, part II. To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Stubbs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs Brigitte: "Many people for example have not educated themselves to distinquish between 19th century psuedo?Sanskrit and Blavatskyan pseudo?Buddhism (touted by many as "hidden" teaching from Tibet). What is "19th century psuedo?Sanskrit"? Brigitte: "At Tingley's urging, he enrolled at Stanford, where he studied with William James and William Butler Yeats. (Yeats had joined the Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society in 1888 only to be expelled by Madame Blavatsky two years later.) Are you sure this is right? William James was at Harvard and I have never read that Yeats taught in California. Brigitte: "Evans?Wentz begins the introduction by claiming a "relationship between the Bardo Thodel and the Egyptian book of the dead. A referrence to this becomes clear if one considers one of the Mahatma letters published by Blavatsky in "Lucifer" 1894 an no Tibetan scolar of the 19th century or thereafter would have written: "The Egyptian enchorial or hieratic system is child's play to the deschipering of our sacred puzzles. Even in those volumes to wich the masses have accesss, every sentence has a dual meaning." That is probably true, but who could have called himself a "Tibetan scolar of the 19th century"? Surely not Blavatsky or her mahatmas. Were there any such people before the Younghusband expedition? Any mystagogue could have written like this. The similarity between the Bardo Thodol and the Book of the Dead is obvious, evem if it is irrelevant to Tibetan scholarship. Brigitte: "Rebirth as a god or human in the realm of desire is the result of a virtuous deed A "god" in Buddhism is merely someone who has temporarily been reborn in one of the heaven worlds. If your deceased Aunt Greta is in "heaven", then she would be spoken of as a "goddess." Earthly beings are not considered "gods". Brigitte: "the vast majority of beings in the universe are said to inhabit the three unfortunate realms of animals, ghosts, and the hells. This simply acknowledges the fact, recognized by science, that there are many times more insects and other creatures than there are humans. Humans are rare. Whether there is rebirth or not, there is birth, and from an anthropocentric viewpoint, the very few humans in the world won the lottery of life. Brigitte: "One is said to be reborn as a god in the realm of desire as a result of an act of charity Actually, "gods" by definition do not live in "the realm of desire." Brigitte: "The greater part of Buddhist practice throughout Asia and throughout history has been directed toward securing rebirth as a human or (preferably) a god in the next lifetime I don't think this is quite right. In the DHAMMAPADA it is made quite clear that the aim is to get off the Wheel of Rebirth altogether and not to be reborn as anything. This is the aim of the Sravakas and Pratyeka Buddhas. In the northern schools (such as Zen) the aim is to be reborn a human, on the theory that the heavens are too pleasant, and the hells too painful, for one to use them as venues for the pursuit of enlightenment. Brigitte: "a Psychical science far in advance of that, still in its infancy, which forms the study of the Society for Psychical Research [which had condemned Madame Blavatsky as a fraud]. Actually, it was Richard Hodgson who did that, and not the SPR, which as a corporate body has no official position. Hodgson was speaking for himself when he wrote the Report. Steve --- bri_mue wrote: > Steve: "It should also be said that nothing that > happened post > 1891 can reasonably be blamed on Blavatsky, > including > the unseemly power struggles and phony mahatma > letters > that came from Judge and his two spirit mediums." > > Brigitte: No, it has to do with a particular > mindset , there is a > tendency to take any particular system, project it > on the outside > world (like looking through glasses in a particular > color), and next > in the desire for it to be everything, try to blend, > talk away (or in > the worst case scenario condemn) the things that now > suddenly don't > fit anymore. > Many people for example have not educated themselves > to distinquish > between 19th century psuedo-Sanskrit and Blavatskyan > pseudo-Buddhism > (touted by many as "hidden" teaching from Tibet). > > I will as an example have a look at the influence > of Blavatskyan > Theosophy on hand of a student of Theosophy, > Evans-Wentz. > > At the turn of the century Walter Wentz moved to > California, where in > 1901 he joined the American Section of the > Theosophical Society. > Headquartered in Point Loma, it was headed by > Katherine Tingley, > known as the "Purple Mother." At Tingley's urging, > he enrolled at > Stanford, where he studied with William James and > William Butler > Yeats. (Yeats had joined the Esoteric Section of the > Theosophical > Society in 1888 only to be expelled by Madame > Blavatsky two years > later.) After graduating from Stanford, Wentz went > to Jesus College > Oxford to study Celtic folklore. It was there that > he added a family > name from his mother's side to his surname and > became Walter Evans- > Wentz. After completing his thesis, later published > as The Fairy > Faith in Celtic Countries (1911). > > The most famous book of Evans-Wentz however was > going to > become "TheTibetan Book of the Dead" 1927. > Though a student of several prominent neo-Vedantin > teatchers, > including Sri Yuketswar and Ramana Maharshi, > Evans-Wentz never seems > to have been a devotee of Tibetan Buddhism. Of his > relationship with > Kazi Dawa-Samdup, Evans-Wentzs biographer writes: > "The few letters > that have survived that they exchanged show a > surprisingly distant > and formal tone. Even in Dawa-Samdup's diaries there > is no word to > suggest other wise. There is nothing at all > foreshadowing the later > declarations that the Lama was the guru of Walter > Evans-Wentz, > nothing about the "teachings" the American was > supposed to have > received. His book "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" > therefore must be > read with his commitment to Theosophy in mind. > > It is of significance that Evans-Wentz begins the > introduction by > claiming a "relationship between the Bardo Thodel > and the Egyptian > book of the dead. A referrence to this becomes clear > if one > considers one of the Mahatma letters published by > Blavatsky > in "Lucifer" 1894 an no Tibetan scolar of the 19th > century or > thereafter would have written: "The Egyptian > enchorial or hieratic > system is child's play to the deschipering of our > sacred puzzles. > Even in those volumes to wich the masses have > accesss, every > sentence has a dual meaning." > > It is indeed true that one quarter of the 1fifteen > hunderd pages of > the 1888 "The Secret Doctrine" is concerned with > symbolism, but wich > doesn't necessary help clarify the true meaning of > vrious religions > as we shall see in case of Evans-Wentz and the "The > Tibetan Book of > the Dead" > > Part of Blavatsky's legitimacy as an Esoteric > spokesperson lies in > autobiographical sections of her writings, notably a > story told in > Isis according to which she visited Tibet and >