From blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com Tue Jan 01 08:17:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 16:16:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 76806 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 16:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14507.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.70) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:17:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20020101161659.42982.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.197.8.178] by web14507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 08:16:59 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:16:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: An excellent introductory article to Theosophy by Geoffrey Farthing To: Blavatsky Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Blavatsky Archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=72011551 X-Yahoo-Profile: blavatskyarchives There is an excellent introductory article to Theosophy written by Geoffrey Farthing and published at: http://www.blavatskytrust.org/html/blavatsky_lecture_2001.html The subjects dealt with include: 1. The notion of Deity in Cosmos and Man. 2. The Occult Constitution of Man and the Planes of Being. 3. Divine Law, regulating the all-embracing cosmic process. 4. Evolution, Life ever-becoming, the majestic march to perfection. 5. The notion of Reincarnation, in relation to Cycles of Becoming. 6. Religion: all systems for the guidance of Man on his spiritual journey. 7. After-death states, Spiritualism and the Paranormal. 8. Ecology, a sympathetic relationship to Nature. 9. The Ordering of society: freedom within a framework of wise laws. 10. Education: the instilling of healthy values and right culture of the individual. 11. Science: man’s attempts to understand the workings of Nature. 12. The Arts, Health, Psychology and Parapsychology. Check it out!! Daniel ===== Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com Tue Jan 01 08:29:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 16:29:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 40120 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 16:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14505.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.68) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:29:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20020101162928.94542.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.197.8.178] by web14505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 08:29:28 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:29:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Origin of Modern Theosophy To: Blavatsky Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Blavatsky Archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=72011551 X-Yahoo-Profile: blavatskyarchives As one studies "The Secret Doctrine" and the other writings of H.P. Blavatsky, one should keep in mind how the esoteric knowledge given in these various writings was gained. The following two articles give some important insights and are compiled from the writings of H.P. Blavatsky and the Mahatmas M. and K.H.: "The Origin of Modern Theosophy: >From Long-Sealed Ancient Fountains" http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/theosophy1.htm "Great Adepts and Trained Seers: Knowledge of Spiritual Facts by Personal Experience and from Actual Observation" http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/theosophy2.htm Daniel ===== Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com Tue Jan 01 08:49:04 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 16:49:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 38725 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:49:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 16:49:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14509.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.168) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:49:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20020101164903.66761.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.197.8.178] by web14509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 08:49:03 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:49:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: A Starting Place: Two recommended books on Theosophy To: Blavatsky Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Blavatsky Archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=72011551 X-Yahoo-Profile: blavatskyarchives I highly recommend the following two books to anyone who wants to gain a basic understanding of Theosophy as given in the writings of Madame Blavatsky. *******Book #1 INTRODUCTION TO ESOTERIC PRINCIPLES by William Doss McDavid This is a concise and detailed presentation of some basic concepts of the Wisdom Tradition as set forth by H. P. Blavatsky, contrasting alternative presentations by later generations. Contents: (1) Introduction: Schools of Esoteric Teaching. (2) First Principles. (3) Microcosm. (4) Evolution-The Law of Unfoldment. (5) Macrocosm. (6) The Scope of Planetary Evolution. (7) The Path of Initiation. 82 pages. $9.00, paper. HOW TO ORDER: Order by phone from Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, Illinois. Call 1-800-669-9425. You can also email them at: questcustservice@theosmail.net *******Book #2 DEITY, COSMOS AND MAN, AN OUTLINE OF ESOTERIC SCIENCE by Geoffrey A. Farthing This work presents the facts and overall content of the vast writings of H.P. Blavatsky. . . .From this outline of the Wisdom teaching, we learn of the various levels of operation in the cosmos, and in relation to humanity, makes clear that we reflect the universal pattern, postulating our ultimate perfectibility by stages. We are all rooted in the Divine and share the common universal life as members of a universal brotherhood which includes not only all humanity, but also the lesser evolved kingdoms of Nature. Paperback, 253 pages, $15.00; Hard cover $22.50 HOW TO ORDER: Order by phone from Point Loma Publications. Call 1-619-222-9609. Over the phone, they accept Visa and Mastercard credit cards. You can order by mail if you pay with a check, money order or credit card. The address is: Point Loma Publications, Post Office Box 6507, San Diego, CA 92166, USA. Their Customer Service department can be reached by e-mail at: customerservice@wisdomtraditions.com Daniel ===== Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com Tue Jan 01 09:16:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 17:16:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 96333 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 17:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 17:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14509.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.168) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 17:16:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20020101171653.68902.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.197.8.178] by web14509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:16:53 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: "No two are agreed upon any fundamental occult principles. . . . " To: Blavatsky Archives In-Reply-To: <20020101171041.3415.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Blavatsky Archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=72011551 X-Yahoo-Profile: blavatskyarchives In the following passages from THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, H.P. Blavatsky makes some astute observations that are still true and relevant today (maybe even more so!). I would suggest that students of her writings might take to heart the major points she offers for our consideration. "While two-thirds of civilized society ridicule the mere notion that there is anything in Theosophy, Occultism, Spiritualism, or in the Kabala, the other third is composed of the most heterogeneous and opposite elements. Some believe in the mystical, and even in the supernatural (!), but each believes in his own way. Others will rush single-handed into the study of the Kabala, Psychism, Mesmerism, Spiritualism, or some form or another of Mysticism. Result: no two men think alike, no two are agreed upon any fundamental occult principles, though many are those who claim for themselves the ultima thule of knowledge, and would make outsiders believe that they are full-blown adepts. Not only is there no scientific and accurate knowledge of Occultism accessible in the West -- not even of true astrology, the only branch of Occultism which, in its exoteric teachings, has definite laws and a definite system -- but no one has any idea of what real Occultism means. Some limit ancient wisdom to the Kabala and the Jewish Zohar, which each interprets in his own way according to the dead-letter of the Rabbinical methods. Others regard Swedenborg or Boehme as the ultimate expression of the highest wisdom; while others again see in mesmerism the great secret of ancient magic. One and all of those who put their theory into practice are rapidly drifting, through ignorance, into black magic. Happy are those who escape from it, as they have neither test nor criterion by which they can distinguish between the true and the false. . . . A portion of the true sciences is better than a mass of undigested and misunderstood learning. An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust." THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, Section 2. What do you believe are Mme. Blavatsky's major observations in these quoted passages above and what is the relevance of these points as one seriously studies Theosophy and related subjects? Daniel ===== Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk Tue Jan 01 10:26:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 18:26:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 53980 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 18:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 18:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.6) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 18:26:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 30308 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 18:22:46 -0000 Received: from 3e6b180d.aarh.stofanet.dk (HELO st) (62.107.24.13) by mail1.stofanet.dk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 18:22:46 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01c192f1$58a70900$0d186b3e@stofanet.dk> To: References: <20020101171653.68902.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World "No two are agreed upon any fundamental occult principles. . . . " Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 19:23:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Morten Sufilight" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=80921356 X-Yahoo-Profile: morten_sufilight Hi Daniel, and all of you, Thank you for the below. I agree a lot on it. One issue I would put forward - is to stop - dead-letter reading and bible-= study (- i.e. the view that only Blavatsky - counts etc. ) ! And where are the teachers of today - who hasn't drifted away into - black = magic ? Where are the spiritual 'weeds' ? Are they meditating in a far away galaxy = ? But, what about the following qoute from Blavatsky (with my remarks in ***)= : ________________________________________________________________ ENQUIRER. Which system do you prefer or follow, in that case, besides Buddh= istic ethics?=20 =20 THEOSOPHIST. None, and all. We hold to no religion, as to no philosophy in = particular: we cull the good we find in each. But here, again, it must be s= tated that, like all other ancient systems, Theosophy is divided into Exote= ric and Esoteric Sections.=20 ***None and all. - Who follows that - today year 2002 ??*** =20 ENQUIRER. What is the difference?=20 =20 THEOSOPHIST. The members of the Theosophical Society at large are free to p= rofess whatever religion or philosophy they like, or none if they so prefer= , provided they are in sympathy with, and ready to carry out one or more of= the three objects of the Association. The Society is a philanthropic and s= cientific body for the propagation of the idea of brotherhood on practical = instead of theoretical lines. The Fellows may be Christians or Mussulmen, J= ews or Parsees, Buddhists or Brahmins, Spiritualists or Materialists, it do= es not matter; but every member must be either a philanthropist, or a schol= ar, a searcher into Aryan and other old literature, or a psychic student. I= n short, he has to help, if he can, in the carrying out of at least one of = the objects of the programme. Otherwise he has no reason for becoming a "Fe= llow." Such are the majority of the exoteric Society, composed of "attached= " and "unattached" members. [An "attached member" means one who has joined = some particular branch of the T. S. An "unattached," one who belongs to the= Society at large, has his diploma, from the Headquarters (Adyar, Madras), = but is connected with no branch or lodge.] These may, or may not, become Th= eosophists de facto.=20 ***And who follows - the following remarks made by Blavatsky : *** Members they are, by virtue of their having joined the Society; but the lat= ter cannot make a Theosophist of one who has no sense for the divine fitnes= s of things, or of him who understands Theosophy in his own -- if the expre= ssion may be used -- sectarian and egotistic way. "Handsome is, as handsome= does" could be paraphrased in this case and be made to run: "Theosophist i= s, who Theosophy does." (H. P. Blavatsky: THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY,Section 2) ______________________________________________________________ I hold, that all to many Theosophical groups and even organizations do not = follow this view of Blavatsky's today - year 2002. If they at all understan= d, what she is thinking about. They are not - as open - as Blavatsky wants = them to be in the above. And also not forgetting - the dead-letter view. What do you have on my - Alice A. Bailey article no. 4389 (http://groups.ya= hoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4389) Caldwell ? And others ? from Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Blavatsky Archives" To: "Blavatsky Archives" Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: Theos-World "No two are agreed upon any fundamental occult princip= les. . . . " > In the following passages from THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, > H.P. Blavatsky makes some astute observations that are > still true and relevant today (maybe even more so!). I > would suggest that students of her writings might take > to heart the major points she offers for our > consideration. >=20 > "While two-thirds of civilized society ridicule the > mere notion that there is anything in Theosophy, > Occultism, Spiritualism, or in the Kabala, the other > third is composed of the most heterogeneous and > opposite elements. Some believe in the mystical, and > even in the supernatural (!), but each believes in his > own way. Others will rush single-handed into the study > of the Kabala, Psychism, Mesmerism, Spiritualism, or > some form or another of Mysticism. Result: no two men > think alike, no two are agreed upon any fundamental > occult principles, though many are those who claim for > themselves the ultima thule of knowledge, and would > make outsiders believe that they are full-blown > adepts. Not only is there no scientific and accurate > knowledge of Occultism accessible in the West -- not > even of true astrology, the only branch of Occultism > which, in its exoteric teachings, has definite laws > and a definite system -- but no one has any idea of > what real Occultism means. Some limit ancient wisdom > to the Kabala and the Jewish Zohar, which each > interprets in his own way according to the dead-letter > of the Rabbinical methods. Others regard Swedenborg or > Boehme as the ultimate expression of the highest > wisdom; while others again see in mesmerism the great > secret of ancient magic. One and all of those who put > their theory into practice are rapidly drifting, > through ignorance, into black magic. Happy are those > who escape from it, as they have neither test nor > criterion by which they can distinguish between the > true and the false. . . . A portion of the true > sciences is better than a mass of undigested and > misunderstood learning. An ounce of gold is worth a > ton of dust." THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, Section 2. >=20 > What do you believe are Mme. Blavatsky's major > observations in these quoted passages above and what > is the relevance of these points as one seriously > studies Theosophy and related subjects?=20 >=20 > Daniel >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Daniel H. Caldwell > info@blavatskyarchives.com > BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES > http://blavatskyarchives.com > You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES=20 > by simply typing into the URL address bar=20 > the following 6 characters: hpb.cc >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/= =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com Tue Jan 01 11:09:47 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: blavatskyarchives@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 19:09:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 39341 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 19:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 19:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14502.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.65) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 19:09:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20020101190946.7479.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [169.197.8.178] by web14502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:09:46 PST Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 11:09:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted versions. . ." To: Blavatsky Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Blavatsky Archives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=72011551 X-Yahoo-Profile: blavatskyarchives SUBJECT: "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted versions disfigured to suit the prejudices and tastes of men in general. . . . " . . ." In E.S.T.S. Instruction No. I., H.P. Blavatsky warned her esoteric students as folows: "Before entering upon the first installment of the Instructions to be given to the Esoteric Section, it is necessary to call the special attention of its members to a new and rapidly growing danger which is threatening the Theosophical Society and the spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and knowledge in the U.S.A." "I allude to those charlatanesque imitations of Occultism and Theosophy of which the “Call to the Awakened,” lately published in the Boston Esoteric, is the most glaring example." "The danger in this particular case is the greater because some men of real scientific attainments and knowledge seem to have been drawn into it, and thus give to it an appearance of real knowledge which may easily deceive the unwary." "By pandering to the prejudices of people, and especially by adopting the false ideas of a personal God and a personal, carnalized Saviour, as the groundwork of their teaching, the leaders of this “swindle” (for such it is) are endeavoring to draw men to them and in particular to turn Theosophists from the true path. The H. B. of L., of shameful memory in England, has now found a worthy substitute in the Esoteric College in Boston founded by a “Brahmin of Irish descent, thousands of years old,” (Vide “A Call from the Unseen,” etc.). . . ." "A close examination will assuredly reveal the whole scheme as a mere device for money getting and selfish gratification, in which materials largely stolen, as said, from Theosophical writings are distorted and falsified so as to be palmed off on the unwary as revelations of new and undreamed of truths. But many will neither have the time nor the opportunity for such a thorough investigation; and before they become aware of the imposture they may be led far from the Truth, as well as be despoiled of their property and, worse than that, of their health." "Under these circumstances, it is the duty of all members of the E. S. in America to do their utmost to unmask such movements, for nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted versions disfigured to suit the prejudices and tastes of men in general. . . . " Quoted from: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbes1extract.htm ===== Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing into the URL address bar the following 6 characters: hpb.cc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk Tue Jan 01 12:25:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 1 Jan 2002 20:25:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 56241 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 20:25:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2002 20:25:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.6) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 20:25:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 7699 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 20:21:06 -0000 Received: from 3e6b180d.aarh.stofanet.dk (HELO st) (62.107.24.13) by mail1.stofanet.dk with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 20:21:06 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c19301$df6e9060$0d186b3e@stofanet.dk> To: References: <20020101190946.7479.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted versions. . ." Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:21:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Morten Sufilight" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=80921356 X-Yahoo-Profile: morten_sufilight Hi Caldwell, and all of you, On the below : Wow - thanks Caldwell. Where did that come from ?? Beautiful !! Is also the real original - version - scanned - online somewhere?? If not - would you mail me - such a version - whithin 5 days ?? I would be = very happy ! Who has the original version ? Anyone ? And why not read the whole text of Caldwells : (http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbes1extract.htm) =20 from Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Blavatsky Archives" To: "Blavatsky Archives" Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:09 PM Subject: Theos-World "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the = garbled and distorted versions. . ." > SUBJECT: "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth > than the garbled and distorted versions disfigured to > suit the prejudices and tastes of men in general. . . > . " . . ." >=20 > In E.S.T.S. Instruction No. I., H.P. Blavatsky warned > her esoteric students as folows:=20 >=20 > "Before entering upon the first installment of the > Instructions to be given to the Esoteric Section, it > is necessary to call the special attention of its > members to a new and rapidly growing danger which is > threatening the Theosophical Society and the spread of > the pure Esoteric Philosophy and knowledge in the > U.S.A."=20 >=20 > "I allude to those charlatanesque imitations of > Occultism and Theosophy of which the "Call to the > Awakened," lately published in the Boston Esoteric, is > the most glaring example."=20 >=20 > "The danger in this particular case is the greater > because some men of real scientific attainments and > knowledge seem to have been drawn into it, and thus > give to it an appearance of real knowledge which may > easily deceive the unwary."=20 >=20 > "By pandering to the prejudices of people, and > especially by adopting the false ideas of a personal > God and a personal, carnalized Saviour, as the > groundwork of their teaching, the leaders of this > "swindle" (for such it is) are endeavoring to draw men > to them and in particular to turn Theosophists from > the true path. The H. B. of L., of shameful memory in > England, has now found a worthy substitute in the > Esoteric College in Boston founded by a "Brahmin of > Irish descent, thousands of years old," (Vide "A Call > from the Unseen," etc.). . . ." >=20 > "A close examination will assuredly reveal the whole > scheme as a mere device for money getting and selfish > gratification, in which materials largely stolen, as > said, from Theosophical writings are distorted and > falsified so as to be palmed off on the unwary as > revelations of new and undreamed of truths. But many > will neither have the time nor the opportunity for > such a thorough investigation; and before they become > aware of the imposture they may be led far from the > Truth, as well as be despoiled of their property and, > worse than that, of their health."=20 >=20 > "Under these circumstances, it is the duty of all > members of the E. S. in America to do their utmost to > unmask such movements, for nothing is more dangerous > to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted > versions disfigured to suit the prejudices and tastes > of men in general. . . . "=20 >=20 > Quoted from: > http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbes1extract.htm >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Daniel H. Caldwell > info@blavatskyarchives.com > BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES > http://blavatskyarchives.com > You can always access BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES=20 > by simply typing into the URL address bar=20 > the following 6 characters: hpb.cc >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/= =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From gschueler@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 06:26:53 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 14:26:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 91088 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 14:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 14:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-8.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.86) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 14:26:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 6998 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Jan 2002 14:26:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20020102142650.6997.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from ws2-8.us4.outblaze.com for [24.13.121.60] via web-mailer on Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:26:50 +0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:26:50 +0800 Subject: Re to Brigitte on Scrying From: "Gerald Schueler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=45899108 Brigitte, Did you want a para-by-para analysis or just general comments? The business, for example, of "every temple has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to attract the unwary and ignorant. And "the astral light is collected in a cup by willpower" is pure poetry because the astral light is not a physical substance that one can gather and place anywhere. After years of study and practice, one will come to be able to see through these kinds of outer trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is really going on. Most of the mirror and crystal gazing descriptions are the very thing that Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns readers against. The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes) are simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine, to form mental images, and it is one's own magical imagination that does the scrying - the trick is to be able to distinguish between detailed kama-manas descriptions (which are usually mental projections and not what is really going on) and less-detailed buddhi-manas descriptions. Steve's final observation, that mirrors and such can actually work, is quite correct - they CAN, but probably the images seen will just be projections by the scrier. I think that the work done by Dee and Kelly, for example, and some of the flying scroll work of the original Golden Dawn, ranks up there with examples of true scrying. Jerry S. *************************** In reference to earlier postings http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4385 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4433 Steve presented some (I think revolutionary) quotes from among others the "Mahatma Letters" indicating their familiarity with P.B.Randolp`s book SEERSHIP. Knowing you probably dealt with the subject "scrying" during your John Dee books research , including its later forms in modern esoteric movements (Crowley ?), plus its modern versions in the humanistic psychology off shoots, could you pls comment on this : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4488 And how you see it can make us understand Blavatsky,s inner workings, plus occult/spiritual evolution, more ? Thank you, Brigitte -- From eldon@theosophy.com Wed Jan 02 08:19:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 16:19:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 16436 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 16:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:19:49 -0000 Received: from SCRIBE.theosophy.com (unknown [167.167.187.24]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1FB43AC for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:19:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020102081808.00a3e090@theosophy.com> X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:19:42 -0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: The January 2002 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-eGroups-From: Theosophy World Editor From: Theosophy World Editor X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy of THEOSOPHY WORLD yesterday. I'm sending a copy of this notice in case you did not get your copy. Some email services block messages with attachments. Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services like Yahoo Groups when getting overloaded. If you did not get your issue, you can get it online (or write and I can email you another copy.) -- Eldon Tucker ---- attached notice ---- The January 2002 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 67th issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "What is Theosophy and Who Are the Theosophists?" by W. Emmett Small "Vajra -- The Thunderbolt," by B.P. Wadia "The Doctrine of Self-Becoming," Part II, by Madeline Clark "Stephen's Guide to the Logical Fallacies," by Stephen Downes "Literary Notes on Macbeth," by Isabel B. Clemeshaw "How to Conduct a Quarrel," by Kenneth Morris "Aftermath," by Victor Endersby "The Midnight Blossom," by George William Russell "Reincarnation," by Alice H. Comerford "Death and After-Death States, Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The January/February 2002 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is out. The current issue contains: "The Sutra on Eight Realizations of the Great Beings" "Nyaya" "Atomistic Philosophy of Vaisesika" "An Outline of the Buddhism of Tibet" "Willy Schmit Writes From the Hague" "Discussion on Lineages" "SECRET DOCTRINE Question and Answer Section" "Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" "Abstracts of The High Country Theosophist" The bimonthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country ---- The 15th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated January 17, 2002, is out. (It goes out at the start of the month, although it is dated the 17th.) The issue contains: "Knowledge Comes in Visions" "Consciousness and Self-Consciousness" "The Eternal THAT" "Vinobha Bhave on Politics" "Sai Baba on Mind" "The Wish of the Cocoanut Tree" "Correspondence" "The Coffee Klatch" "A Spice takes on Alzheimer's Disease" "Dnyaneshvari -- XIV" "The Global Village" "The Big Blue Umbrella" "Point out the Way -- XIV" "Thoughts for Thinkers" "Ethics as a Power" "Samvritti" "Key Notebook -- III" The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is available in Microsoft Word or pdf formats. To request a sample issue, or get a free subscription, write: mailto:ultinla@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------- SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY WORLD magazine: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk ---- * mahat@yahoogroups.com To present theosophical materials that go beyond the printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the availability of such. The most recent addition is a talk on Paracelsus given by Elsie Benjamin, Personal Secretary to G. de Purucker, International President of the Theosophical Society [Point Loma] from 1929 to 1942. The talk was given October 10, 1972. (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and played on one's home computer.) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat ---- * young-theosophists@yahoogroups.com For young theosophists, not restricted to the physically young, but anyone interested in theosophical ideas and is young at heart. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/young-theosophists ---- * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com In the Dutch language: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep ---- * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study ---- * theos-l@list.vnet.net A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l ---- * bn-basic@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) introductory study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-study@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) general study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-sd@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: http://www.blavatsky.net From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 09:43:39 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 17:43:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 9880 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 17:43:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 17:43:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 17:43:38 -0000 Received: from pool0378.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.147.123] helo=earthlink) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16LpQJ-0005Nf-00; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:43:31 -0800 To: Subject: RE: "No two are agreed upon any fundamental occult principles. . . . " Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:39:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003e01c192f1$58a70900$0d186b3e@stofanet.dk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 Wednesday, January 02, 2002 Re "Occult principles" -- Where are they? what are they ? Who knows? Dear Friend: Your question needs I think some further definition. May I offer ? 1. Does one want to discover what THEOSOPHY has to say about a subject or question? 2. Do we desire to consider the opinions of various students of Theosophy on a subject. In my opinion, 1) if one desires to discover what THEOSOPHY --as H.P.Blavatsky presented in on behalf of the MASTERS OF WISDOM -- the ELDER BROTHERS of humanity, has to say or teach us, then what better than to discover and read and present her actual words for everyone to read and think about? These do not bind us. But, they probably will be found on examination to express a fair view of things. Theosophy is for freedom and fairness of expression and desires to establish an "even-field" for all to consider in ay particular application. Hence it emphasis on "fundamentals." These are also insisted on commonly, in mathematics and logic. In the realm of personal opinions -- they are usually undesirables. 2) By all means discuss the implications that any student presents. We are all free to do that. There is no "thought police" in fact or in concept. Since we are all liable to make our own opinionated interpretations, we will probably find that the view we have constructed is different in details from the constructs or opinions of others. That this is so, does not determine who is right. [ Theosophy does say we are individually responsible for our thoughts, feelings and actions -- and the form the basis for our Karma and that of all the rest. -- humanity and other natural constructs. We are a great family.] Determining what is right demands a very rigorous process of analysis and integration to see if the ideas we have built really agree what the facts that Nature continually displays to all who investigate her workings and conditions. If we base our thinking on an inter-related view of the UNITY of all Beings, then we are more likely to choose to do "the generosity of good," than "the selfishness of evil." In my opinion Nature does not arbitrarily change and make different patterns -- Science in its minute search and investigation of the conditions already in place, shows it has learned to depend on certain natural FACTS, and trust them to repeat invariably. So, my conclusion is that it is I and others of us, who may apply too much of our pre-judged opinions, need to be most cautious of our own views. If that should be the case, then, those that are solely based on our private opinions, may proceed to skew our vision or our report of what is actually there. All investigations should have 2 or more participants so as to eliminate as far as possible any personal biases. As far as I am concerned, I desire to know the truth of things. How they are in fact. And, how they work. Also there ought to be no departmentalizing of nature -- as Nature includes everything. There is nothing we do, think, say or feel which is not gong to have an impact on others. We are the ones responsible for those impacts. Do we desire to have them return to us? We ought to constantly ask that, since one of the factors (Karma) that operates (under NATURE) in the world, sees to it that all we do eventually returns to us as circumstance or accident. We have nowhere to hide. The value of Theosophical attitudes in research is that no prejudice be allowed. Further that every individual be allowed full freedom in any and all directions. The "Teachers" of today are our selves. We have at least the following tools in common: Integrity, sincerity, honesty, diligence, a desire to be fair, and accurate. We do not feel any constraint in approaching any subject, and we seek to reconcile opinions already on exhibit with the facts we and other current researchers discover. But above all we are humble. No one knows it all. No one is an "authority." Nature has placed existing systems in place so as to support this freedom we all have. If we investigate and peel back the surface Nature presents on any item, we will discover honesty, uniformity, universality, impersonality and practicality. What shall we do" Discover or uncover the fundamental basis from and on which Nature works. Some think that the original presentation of THEOSOPHY does this. Others doubt this or are skeptical for other reasons. Since we are free to disagree, there is no reason why we do not pursue our own course of study -- and then, discovery, or theory in hand, we display it to others for criticism. After all, we seek for TRUTH, and none of us "knows it all." If however we with pre-judgment (or ignorance) desire to take a "short-cut" we might elect to place some person or system (like a religion or political "party") as an "authority" for us. The question others might well ask is: Are you quite sure that this "authority" is universally and minutely correct? What proofs of accuracy and honesty, sincerity and impartiality are offered? In short: Expose everything. If it is true and correct, then all will use and adopt it. If it is erroneous, then its faults will be exposed. And a healthy reform will be substituted for guile. The "personality" has no where to hide in such cases. This process rubs off the "rough edges" it has developed, ad restores it to the harmony of the Universal. After all we are, each of us a "Microcosm" of the great "Macrocosm." Of so we have to adopt that as a concept for momentary use -- and thing we are portions of the divine, lining and working with other such portions, for our mutual benefit. Yes, we are individuals, but we are cooperators, essentially and forever. BLACK MAGIC You ask about "black magic." As I understand it, it is the hope we can extract some "powers" from natures' secret store, and use them for a personal profit, domination, or private benefit. But in fact that never works. One of the basic concepts of those who seek for and adopt "black-magic" is that they may somehow escape the effects of their wrong applications. [ Many of our religions are based on the hope that the priests may intercede on our behalf (is we pay them enough), and help us avoid the stringent account we will have to pay to Nature and to the VICTIMS we have created. Innately we know we cannot escape. But our cowardly Lower Self, which acts slyly and selfishly, confuses us with hope we may arrange to have the "sin pass unnoticed, and we may escape with undue profits."] This is precisely what Theosophy opposes. As I see it, it says: If there are laws and processes that Nature holds secret, then the reason for that is its innate desire to protect the weak, the poor and the ignorant from the rapaciousness of the clever, selfish and opinionated. It is the ethico-moral aspect of knowledge that Theosophy demands we respect. Nature will not offer, or expose any important secrets to any one if they are going to be abused, and especially if they are going to be Karmically vicious. "Black-magic" implies the use of knowledge (mage) in a detrimental way towards others for self-benefit. It is a misuse of Nature's powers, energy and knowledge. Only the morally depraved have been clever enough to erect a screen of seeming morals that permits them to whip up the ignorant fervor of individuals who feel oppressed, and divert it away form themselves (as the true clever instigators) to some object or purpose that ultimately profits them. I ask for how long? A life-time? And then what ? Who gives relief and solace to those who have suffered or who have been made the unwilling and unwitting victims? Where is there justice in this? Considering the matter broadly, only those who become wise so as to HELP OTHERS will ever be worthy to receive Nature's secrets of power and energy. For their prime motive will be to HELP AND ASSIST, never to selfishly apply any advantage their knowledge provides. FREEDOM and SELF-DEPENDENCE This is how I understand the application of the quotations you offer from the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) can be viewed, and used. But such applications are always to be monitored by the indwelling SPIRIT-GOD ( The ATMA -- the HIGHER SELF) In this we already share. It is common. It is the basis for the Universal brotherhood that is the 1st object of Theosophy and the original THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY . We ought to also consider the fact and the impact of reincarnation an Karma -- universal Evolution towards the great Goal of SUBLIME PERFECTION is another consideration. Basically the eternal fight is an internal one, and is conducted with the Mind as spectator between the extremes of WISDOM Buddhi) and IGNORANCE and SELFISHNESS (Kama-passions and desires). Periodically there is a general churning in Nature and each individual is forced t show themselves as member of one party or the other: the party that is for TRUTH and UNITY, and that which is for the darkness and isolation of SELFISHNESS. In this, each member or associate is entirely free. The monitoring that Nature has instituted as a matter of precaution and safety is a "built-in" factor. It has been done and is in use by Her through the super-sensitivity that "spiritual omniscience" provides. It is the limitation that universal Karma imposes. It is automatically setup in all nature's departments -- to protect all its many components from tyranny and oppression by the selfishness of those who acquire some small portions of her powers. If one desires to trace the history of such abuse, then the references in The SECRET DOCTRINE to the "Atlantean Sorcerers" provide an illuminating example. We need only look dispassionately around us at our present civilization of fear, passion, selfishness, anger, desire, greed, and other vices, which operate blatantly -- concealed with a shallow hypocritical veneer of seeming virtue, prevail I hope this may prove to be of some help, Best wishes, Dallas ================================ -----Original Message----- From: M---n S-----t Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:23 AM To: Subject: Re: "No two are agreed upon any fundamental occult principles. . . . " Hi Daniel, and all of you, Thank you for the below. I agree a lot on it. One issue I would put forward - is to stop - dead-letter reading and bible-study (- i.e. the view that only Blavatsky - counts etc. ) ! And where are the teachers of today - who hasn't drifted away into - black magic ? Where are the spiritual 'weeds' ? Are they meditating in a far away galaxy ? But, what about the following quote from Blavatsky (with my remarks in ***) : ________________________________________________________________ ENQUIRER. Which system do you prefer or follow, in that case, besides Buddhistic ethics? THEOSOPHIST. None, and all. We hold to no religion, as to no philosophy in particular: we cull the good we find in each. But here, again, it must be stated that, like all other ancient systems, Theosophy is divided into Exoteric and Esoteric Sections. ***None and all. - Who follows that - today year 2002 ??*** ENQUIRER. What is the difference? THEOSOPHIST. The members of the Theosophical Society at large are free to profess whatever religion or philosophy they like, or none if they so prefer, provided they are in sympathy with, and ready to carry out one or more of the three objects of the Association. The Society is a philanthropic and scientific body for the propagation of the idea of brotherhood on practical instead of theoretical lines. The Fellows may be Christians or Mussulmen, Jews or Parsees, Buddhists or Brahmins, Spiritualists or Materialists, it does not matter; but every member must be either a philanthropist, or a scholar, a searcher into Aryan and other old literature, or a psychic student. In short, he has to help, if he can, in the carrying out of at least one of the objects of the programme. Otherwise he has no reason for becoming a "Fellow." Such are the majority of the exoteric Society, composed of "attached" and "unattached" members. [An "attached member" means one who has joined some particular branch of the T. S. An "unattached," one who belongs to the Society at large, has his diploma, from the Headquarters (Adyar, Madras), but is connected with no branch or lodge.] These may, or may not, become Theosophists de facto. ***And who follows - the following remarks made by Blavatsky : *** Members they are, by virtue of their having joined the Society; but the latter cannot make a Theosophist of one who has no sense for the divine fitness of things, or of him who understands Theosophy in his own -- if the expression may be used -- sectarian and egotistic way. "Handsome is, as handsome does" could be paraphrased in this case and be made to run: "Theosophist is, who Theosophy does." (H. P. Blavatsky: THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY Section 2) ______________________________________________________________ I hold, that all to many Theosophical groups and even organizations do not follow this view of Blavatsky's today - year 2002. If they at all understand, what she is thinking about. They are not - as open - as Blavatsky wants them to be in the above. And also not forgetting - the dead-letter view. What do you have on my - Alice A. Bailey article no. 4389 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4389) Caldwell ? And others ? from CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 09:43:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 17:43:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 12197 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 17:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 17:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.49) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 17:43:57 -0000 Received: from pool0378.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.147.123] helo=earthlink) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16LpQW-0005Nf-00; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:43:45 -0800 To: Subject: RE: H P B on ASTROLOGY Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:39:47 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 January 2, 2002 Dear Friend: I think it is a useful quotation that you provide us with from H P B. Let me look at some of the implications it causes me to think of -- and some questions to ask. Perhaps we ought to ask: What limited TIME cycles were established when our Universe, Galaxy, and our small World sprang into existence? [ see for instance S D II 68-70 ] Presumably the vast CLOCK of NATURE and the relations to astrological "influences" (which remain to be explained as to the nature of their influence and impact on various aspects of our characters, "principles" and natures). I have found in The SECRET DOCTRINE and other original theosophical writings small clues scattered here and there concerning the operation of individuals and communities, family and national Karma related to the constellations and the stars. It is, for me, difficult to integrate them. There appears to be confusion on several points. 1. When is Karma created? 2. Is its beginning marked in the Clock of the Stars? How ? 3. Since there is always a vast interaction of many causes, who or how are they coordinated? 4. Presumably reincarnation of the immortal Ego has something to do with astrology, as well as the birth and conception of the present personal self and its physical body which serves as vehicle for this incarnation. 5. What is the purpose of astrological investigation ? Motive ? 6. Can any one be benefited by previewing the future, theirs or others ? 7. What part does prophecy, and "visions" play in this ? If these can be integrated I imagine we will find two aspects emerge: 1) The influence on us of this particular era, civilization, race, country, nation, religion, scientific knowledge, and other practical matters. 2) The general influence on world history and development -- the sweep of epidemics or invasions, of economic prosperity or depression, and of other psychic or spiritual cycles. The ripple of discoveries and their applications. Remains always the particular application: if we get some insights into this, will we use the knowledge for general good, or for our own "personal and selfish advantage ?" I think for me it is more a matter of curiosity than of any specific knowledge I can use. As to the Karmic relationship and :free-will." Can we not say that when any human acquires the independence of the Mind-faculty, then and there are the beginnings of personal Karma for that mind. The Personal form that is assembled before and on birth for this incarnation was preceded by similar "forms" in earlier lives. We are assuming the concept of Individual immortality is grasped and agreed on as a basis for thought and living. But Theosophy teaches that we are individual MONADS and that we are immortals, and have been traveling over the pilgrim path towards the Perfection that stands as a general Goal for us all. Additionally let us also say that the Spiritual Self incarnates as a volunteer into the personality already informed by the personal ego -- to serve a friend and counselor -- not as a director in anyway. The "Lower self" is the Lower, embodied mind allied with passions and desires. MIND is the intermediate between this "lower mind" and the divine Monad ( ATMA-BUDDHI) -- or the "spiritual Self." There are a number of important concepts integrate here. Best wishes, Dallas ================================= -----Original Message----- From: M S Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:18 AM To: Subject: Re: H P B on ASTROLOGY Hi, Dallas, Thanks. I think the following quote are coming in as something quite new, to many seekers of astrology. You wrote: "We hold that the science of Astrology only determines the nature of effects, by a knowledge of the law of magnetic affinities and attractions of the Planetary bodies, but that it is the Karma of the individual himself, which places him in that particular magnetic relation." H P B Theosophist, Vol. 6, p. 106 [CWB 6-p.327] So, Dallas how is the Law of Karma, explaining - free will. ============================================== dtb basically all Monads are "free" -- the limits are "brotherhood" and "cooperation." Once Mind is acquired, the responsibility for directing it to act harmoniously and cooperatively is also assumed by the individual self-consciousness. Tis is part of its self-education -- a process which we as humans are undergoing. The knowledge that Theosophy provides is to explain this, and then to point to further and future development -- for consideration and self-implementation if we desire to do so. ==================================================== If everything can be predicted - by Astrology. Then there can't be any - free will, can there ? Do we have a - free will ? And if so how is it to be understood - together with astrology ? ======================================= DTB Look on it as self-imposed effects which we set in past lives. But we have very little to go on here and now. We are all in some or other situation. what choices will we be making now? What kind of a future will we be building? Does a knowledge of Theosophical principles help? What do we need to know? ======================================== Some readers will probably agree, that the Christians some years back in the Middle Ages - banned Astrology, because as they said, there couldn't any free will - if Astrology was a reality. I just find the question important - and I guess - that some readers - also do that. and happy new ... from From stevestubbs@yahoo.com Wed Jan 02 10:07:44 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevestubbs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 18:07:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7103 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 18:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 18:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web9601.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.129.180) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 18:07:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20020102180740.50128.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.203.104.227] by web9601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:07:40 PST Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:07:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Theos-World Re to Brigitte on Scrying To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20020102142650.6997.qmail@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Steve Stubbs X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=7712190 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevestubbs Gerald: "The business, for example, of "every temple has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to attract the unwary and ignorant. Notice this was a direct quote from a "mahatma letter." It is therefore hard to see how one could justify the statement that it "is bullshit given out to attract the unwary and ignorant." It seems apparent that such rooms did not exist in Tibetan temples. There may have been such a room in Ramdolph's place on Boylston Street in Boston. Gerald: "And "the astral light is collected in a cup by willpower" is pure poetry because the astral light is not a physical substance that one can gather and place anywhere. Sounds like a technique to me. Gerald: "After years of study and practice, one will come to be able to see through these kinds of outer trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is really going on. Most of the mirror and crystal gazing descriptions are the very thing that Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns readers against. Actually, she spoke well of Hungarian colleague Adelma vam Vey's book VISIONEN IM WASSERGLASSE. There was nary a word of protest againat Emma Hardinge Britten's experiments, which were described in detail. Blavatsky said when she looked into the "astral light" it was as if she was gazing into a mirror, etc. Gerald: "The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes) are simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine, to form mental images The historical problem here is whether it is a historical fact that Blavatsky used them. The evidence is that it is. Gerald: "the trick is to be able to distinguish between detailed kama﷓manas descriptions (which are usually mental projections and not what is really going on) and less﷓detailed buddhi﷓manas descriptions. In theory the real skinny would be non phenomenal, meaning there would be no sensory content (visions, sounds, etc.) yet there would be content, represented in non sensory terms. This would explain the "ineffable" quality of such content. Gerald: "Steve's final observation, that mirrors and such can actually work, is quite correct ﷓ they CAN What I said is, that some people really see images that way without fraud or drugs being involved. The experiences are real, in other words. No comment on whether the images were veridical. Gerald: "I think that the work done by Dee and Kelly, for example, and some of the flying scroll work of the original Golden Dawn, ranks up there with examples of true scrying. Question: is that a faith statement or do you have evidence? Kelly did the same thing as Blavatsky, using a "shew stone" instead of a mirror. It is very similar, in fact, to what Joseph Smith did. The question of whether the visions are veridical is a difficult one which I doubt can be settled because the necessary evidence is wanting. However, the "tattva symbol" visions described in the "flying rolls" strike me as mere eidetic imagery acquired while in a twilight state of daydreaming. Steve --- Gerald Schueler wrote: > Brigitte, > > Did you want a para-by-para analysis or just general > comments? The business, for example, of "every > temple has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to > attract the unwary and ignorant. And "the astral > light is collected in a cup by willpower" is pure > poetry because the astral light is not a physical > substance that one can gather and place anywhere. > > After years of study and practice, one will come to > be able to see through these kinds of outer > trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is > really going on. Most of the mirror and crystal > gazing descriptions are the very thing that > Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns > readers against. > > The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes) are > simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine, to > form mental images, and it is one's own > magical imagination that does the scrying - the > trick is to be able to distinguish between detailed > kama-manas descriptions (which are usually mental > projections and not what is really going on) and > less-detailed buddhi-manas descriptions. > > Steve's final observation, that mirrors and such can > actually work, is quite correct - they CAN, but > probably the images seen will just be projections by > the scrier. I think that the work done by Dee and > Kelly, for example, and some of the flying scroll > work of the original Golden Dawn, ranks up there > with examples of true scrying. > > Jerry S. > > *************************** > In reference to earlier postings > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4385 > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4433 > > Steve presented some (I think revolutionary) quotes > from among others the "Mahatma Letters" indicating > their familiarity with P.B.Randolp`s book > SEERSHIP. Knowing you probably dealt with the > subject "scrying" during your John Dee books > research , including its later forms in modern > esoteric movements (Crowley ?), plus its modern > versions in the humanistic psychology off shoots, > could you pls comment on this : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4488 > > And how you see it can make us understand > Blavatsky,s inner workings, plus > occult/spiritual evolution, more ? > > > Thank you, > > Brigitte > > > -- > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk Wed Jan 02 10:55:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: teosophy@mail1.stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 18:55:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 50864 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 18:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 18:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.6) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 18:55:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8049 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 18:51:05 -0000 Received: from 3e6b180d.aarh.stofanet.dk (HELO st) (62.107.24.13) by mail1.stofanet.dk with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 18:51:05 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c193be$7d3fff60$0d186b3e@stofanet.dk> To: References: Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: H P B on ASTROLOGY Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:51:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "Morten Sufilight" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=80921356 X-Yahoo-Profile: morten_sufilight Hi Dallas, and all of you, Thank you for your answer Dallas. I will seek to help as far I can.=20 I have added some comments to - the questions below - using * stars. But - they are just my contribution - others may disagree. I have done this - to be as honest as possible - on the issue. from Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:39 PM Subject: Theos-World RE: H P B on ASTROLOGY > January 2, 2002 >=20 > Dear Friend: >=20 > I think it is a useful quotation that you provide us with from H > P B. Let me look at some of the implications it causes me to > think of -- and some questions to ask. >=20 >=20 > Perhaps we ought to ask: What limited TIME cycles were > established when our Universe, Galaxy, and our small World sprang > into existence? [ see for instance S D II 68-70 ] >=20 > Presumably the vast CLOCK of NATURE and the relations to > astrological "influences" (which remain to be explained as to the > nature of their influence and impact on various aspects of our > characters, "principles" and natures). >=20 > I have found in The SECRET DOCTRINE and other original > theosophical writings small clues scattered here and there > concerning the operation of individuals and communities, family > and national Karma related to the constellations and the stars. > It is, for me, difficult to integrate them. >=20 > There appears to be confusion on several points. >=20 > 1. When is Karma created? ***Karma sprang from ParaBrahman - Look in Bhagavad Gita !! Only Parabrahma= n is beyond Karma.*** >=20 > 2. Is its beginning marked in the Clock of the Stars? How ?=20 ***Yes. But 'marked' in a very spiritual and esoterical manner - no doubt.*= ** ***One will have to experience how - to really get it.*** >=20 > 3. Since there is always a vast interaction of many causes, > who or how are they coordinated? ***Of course by the Law of Karma. ParaBrahman is Karma in total and is also= beyond Karma. ParaBrahman shouldn't be underestimated !!!*** >=20 > 4. Presumably reincarnation of the immortal Ego has > something to do with astrology, as well as the birth and > conception of the present personal self and its physical body > which serves as vehicle for this incarnation. ***Yes - but it can only - have to do with astrology - to a certain degree= - that is my experience. There is a sort of spiritual 'decision' (or more = likely more than one decision) taken on different higher levels (of the 7 p= lanes etc.) - and then if the 'plan' for the incarnation runs well - everyt= hing is allright.*** >=20 > 5. What is the purpose of astrological investigation ? > Motive ? >=20 ***Yes I ask the same. - I would also like to know that - and on what level= one is dealing with it. Anyone ??*** > 6. Can any one be benefited by previewing the future, theirs > or others ? ***Yes - certainly. But this implies a responsability - to handle such a kn= owledge. Secrecy - on wisdom of the future events - often creps in - out of= true compassion - to avoid - prejudice and damage or blocking others spiri= tual development. Such a Wisdom with knowledge of the future is intimately = connected with - LOVE - and unselfish behavoir, - the Initiated uses their = knowledge to help - creation and evolution to unfold/transcend time and lif= e towards perfection.*** >=20 > 7. What part does prophecy, and "visions" play in this ? >=20 > If these can be integrated I imagine we will find two aspects > emerge: >=20 > 1) The influence on us of this particular era, civilization, > race, country, nation, religion, scientific knowledge, and other > practical matters. >=20 > 2) The general influence on world history and development -- > the sweep of epidemics or invasions, of economic prosperity or > depression, and of other psychic or spiritual cycles. The ripple > of discoveries and their applications. >=20 > Remains always the particular application: if we get some > insights into this, will we use the knowledge for general good, > or for our own "personal and selfish advantage ?" >=20 > I think for me it is more a matter of curiosity than of any > specific knowledge I can use. >=20 > As to the Karmic relationship and :free-will." Can we not say > that when any human acquires the independence of the > Mind-faculty, then and there are the beginnings of personal Karma > for that mind. The Personal form that is assembled before and on > birth for this incarnation was preceded by similar "forms" in > earlier lives. We are assuming the concept of Individual > immortality is grasped and agreed on as a basis for thought and > living. >=20 > But Theosophy teaches that we are individual MONADS and that we > are immortals, and have been traveling over the pilgrim path > towards the Perfection that stands as a general Goal for us all. > Additionally let us also say that the Spiritual Self incarnates > as a volunteer into the personality already informed by the > personal ego -- to serve a friend and counselor -- not as a > director in anyway. The "Lower self" is the Lower, embodied mind > allied with passions and desires. MIND is the intermediate > between this "lower mind" and the divine Monad ( ATMA-BUDDHI) -- > or the "spiritual Self." >=20 > There are a number of important concepts integrate here. ***Yes - let us integrate the universe - before predicting - our selves as = Astrologist 'personalities', 'initiates' or whatever. All the vehichles - w= ith - their cycles - have a karmic aspect - and the - personality has Karma= - just like via analogy - Manas-Buddhi-Atma has - with the Monad hanging a= bove.=20 (Not everyone agrees here: And according to Subba T. Row as I understand hi= m 1. 2. and 3. Logos has Karma as a sort of - high level 'personality' to P= araBrahman. -- See "Notes on the Bahgavad Gita") God is ParaBrahman. God is good. Good is good. That is good. predicting-ly from Sufilight *** >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: M S > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:18 AM > To: > Subject: Re: H P B on ASTROLOGY >=20 > Hi, Dallas, >=20 > Thanks. I think the following quote are coming in as something > quite new, to many seekers of astrology. >=20 > You wrote: >=20 > "We hold that the science of Astrology only determines the nature > of effects, by a knowledge of the law of magnetic affinities and > attractions of the Planetary bodies, but that it is the Karma of > the individual himself, which places him in that particular > magnetic relation." > H P B Theosophist, Vol. 6, p. 106 [CWB 6-p.327] >=20 > So, Dallas how is the Law of Karma, explaining - free will. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > dtb basically all Monads are "free" -- the limits > are "brotherhood" and "cooperation." > Once Mind is acquired, the responsibility for directing it to act > harmoniously and cooperatively is also assumed by the individual > self-consciousness. Tis is part of its self-education -- a > process which we as humans are undergoing. The knowledge that > Theosophy provides is to explain this, and then to point to > further and future development -- for consideration and > self-implementation if we desire to do so. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >=20 > If everything can be predicted - by Astrology. Then there can't > be any - free will, can there ? > Do we have a - free will ? And if so how is it to be understood - > together with astrology ? >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > DTB Look on it as self-imposed effects which we set in past > lives. But we have very little to go on here and now. We are > all in some or other situation. what choices will we be making > now? What kind of a future will we be building? Does a > knowledge of Theosophical principles help? >=20 > What do we need to know? >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Some readers will probably agree, that the Christians some years > back in the Middle Ages - banned Astrology, because as they said, > there couldn't any free will - if Astrology was a reality. >=20 > I just find the question important - and I guess - that some > readers - also do that. >=20 > and >=20 > happy new ... >=20 > from >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/= =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From bri_mue@yahoo.com Wed Jan 02 11:02:22 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: bri_mue@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 2 Jan 2002 19:02:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 63341 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 19:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2002 19:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 19:02:22 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.169] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2002 19:02:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:02:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re to Brigitte on Scrying Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020102142650.6997.qmail@earthlink.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2849 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bri_mue" X-Originating-IP: 131.130.232.220 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=62965613 X-Yahoo-Profile: bri_mue Thank you. Reg."the very thing that Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns readers against." Yes that's correct. Blavatsky has been constantly re-inventing herself. Is there anything more that can be said about Blavatsky's own esoteric/spiritual evolution and what can be observed about the inner workings she applied troughout her life ? Brigitte --- In theos-talk@y..., "Gerald Schueler" wrote: > Brigitte, > > Did you want a para-by-para analysis or just general comments? The business, for example, of "every temple has a dark room ..." is bullshit given out to > attract the unwary and ignorant. And "the astral light is collected in a cup by willpower" is pure poetry because the astral light is not a physical > substance that one can gather and place anywhere. > > After years of study and practice, one will come to be able to see through these kinds of outer trimmings and poetical fancies, and see what is really going on. Most of the mirror and crystal gazing descriptions are the very thing that Blavatsky, in other parts of her writings, warns readers against. > > The mirror and crystal (and water sometimes) are simply devices used to allow the mind to imagine, to form mental images, and it is one's own > magical imagination that does the scrying - the trick is to be able to distinguish between detailed kama-manas descriptions (which are usually mental projections and not what is really going on) and less- detailed buddhi-manas descriptions. > > Steve's final observation, that mirrors and such can actually work, is quite correct - they CAN, but probably the images seen will just be projections by > the scrier. I think that the work done by Dee and Kelly, for example, and some of the flying scroll work of the original Golden Dawn, ranks up there > with examples of true scrying. > > Jerry S. > > *************************** > In reference to earlier postings > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4385 > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4433 > > Steve presented some (I think revolutionary) quotes from among others the "Mahatma Letters" indicating their familiarity with P.B.Randolp`s book > SEERSHIP. Knowing you probably dealt with the subject "scrying" during your John Dee books research , including its later forms in modern esoteric movements (Crowley ?), plus its modern versions in the humanistic psychology off shoots, could you pls comment on this : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/4488 > > And how you see it can make us understand Blavatsky,s inner workings, plus > occult/spiritual evolution, more ? > > Thank you, > Brigitte > > > -- From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 17:24:03 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 45474 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m9.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:02 -0000 Received: from pool0566.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.154.56] helo=earthlink) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Lwbn-0007fZ-00; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:23:52 -0800 To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: Good -Evil -- Karma --Human evolution Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:19:36 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 Dear Friend: To answer your several questions: DIVINITY - GOD - A UNIVERSAL DIVINE PRINCIPLE -- NATURE Yes there is one UNIVERSAL DIVINE PRINCIPLE. Some call it GOD. (Unfortunately some make the error of thinking of IT as a gigantic MAN. IT is not that, although it is everywhere and has been in and through the human-stage and gone far beyond that. It is the Intelligent part of the Universal It is also called NATURE -- and in the old days in Greece it was: PAN -- the anima of the Universe -- present everywhere.) HEART -- as a symbol In man it resides in his inmost essence, symbolized by the "heart." But then, look at the heart - it has blood vessels that carry the rivers of our life (blood) all over the whole body. We could call the "Heart" an organ that touches the entire body and yet it has a center which pumps and energizes the whole. It is a "universal organ" so far as our body is concerned. The Brain and its nervous system is another as the ramifications from the brain -- the nerves -- go everywhere in the body and are also universal to it. Karmic Law We could carry the analogy farther and call the Laws of Karma the blood life and currents that pass everywhere in our visible and invisible Universe. Each Monad is like one of the many kinds of cells and blood corpuscles -- some carry the oxygen and then remove the carbon dioxide, some defend the body against evil invaders (diseases) and some carry away the dead cells and the attackers and these are dumped into our channels of excretion daily. So there is constant movement and exchange and all is Intelligent and moves under Karmic law. Even the migration of birds and the eating of fish by other fish, and the flow of the rain water into rivers and then back into the ocean are examples of Karmic law acting in the animal and elemental kingdoms in Nature. Karma, you see, rules everything and is the intelligent agent for universal brotherhood in mankind, as well as all the rest of nature -- the whole physical universe and the individual intelligence of every being is perfectly integrated and universally related. Karma is UNIVERSALLY active and welds all aspects of Nature together. It is an impersonal force, and is either "good" nor "bad" of itself. Human choices and actions make it seem to be either good or bad. ATOMS and MOLECULES of LIVING MATTER -- MONADS If you think about it you will see that we, the plants, animals and minerals are all composed of atoms and molecules, and these are in constant motion. They are being exchanged as the life-currents flow from one to the other under Karmic laws of affinity. Atoms of air, gasses like oxygen, hydrogen, carbon dioxide, nitrogen are everywhere in the world and universe. They are in all forms of matter as water, gasses, and even minerals when the combine with other elements to make oxides and biological compounds as well as rocks, plants, animals, and the bodies of all men and women. The Law of Karma and the Universe touches and regulates all these with its universal harmony, balance and INTELLIGENCE. These are facts that Science agrees to, but they cannot explain how and who this works. Theosophy does. It adds the ethical and moral aspect and plane of living to the merely physical. It gives reasons for sensitivity, for the effect of good and evil choices. The FAMILY of MAN Since Karma, SPIRIT and Wisdom, are present everywhere, all beings are BROTHERS. All humans belong to ONE FAMILY: The Family of Man. We have to learn to look on all, as brothers, as reincarnating fractions of the ONE GOD -- hence we should not, we cannot hate or feel any annoyance at others, no matter what they do. But we may pity them for their ignorant actions and try to educate them if they will let us. If they hurt us, still we ought to refuse to allow any hatred to arise. Pity and compassion reconcile all errors, but we have to insist on our doing that inside ourselves, in our own consciousness, regardless of their reaction or rejection. We have been reincarnating together for millions of years, but we do not recall in every new brain-mind (as a returning baby / infant) the relationships we used to have with others. It is a grave error to think of any others in this life, as strangers, regardless of where they may come from, or what religion they now have, as "strangers." They, whom we do not recognize this incarnation, may have been our parents, our children or other close relatives in previous lives when we reincarnated together then. Theosophy widens our perspective with these ideas. Universal Brotherhood is the first principle to understand. KARMA - JUSTICE - EQUITY - PROGRESS Similarly the LAW OF KARMA is universal. It is the foundation Law of the whole Universe. It helps every being, whether it is an atom, a man, or a world to progress along with every other portion of the entire UNIVERSE. It unites all, and makes universal HARMONY the objective of living so that mutual and voluntary assistance is normal. As I said above, we, each of us individually have to do our part. We have to refuse to retaliate and to give our tolerance to the errors that others might impose on us. Theosophy, considers that the whole Universe, our World, and ourselves down to the most minute particle of an atom in our bodies, are under these uniform, sensitive, generous, and compassionate LAWS. Yet the same laws have an educational force. It is they which return to us good or evil according to our previous or earlier thoughts, feelings and actions of the past. We are made to experience the exact result of our previous decisions. No one else but us is responsible for them. BAD KARMA At this point Theosophy states with great force: We ought not to make ourselves the instruments for the "bad karma" of another. Let Nature take care of adjustments. But if we see that many are threatened by the actions of one who is evidently insisting on evil, we can restrain them, and refuse to carry our their orders -- even if it means pain and sorrow for us. We have to remember that at the base of their innermost nature they are spiritual beings, but in them the clouds of passion and vice have obscured their Spirit and have prevented it from being perceived and from acting through the body.. The reason for this is that the whole Universe exists for the purpose of assisting every aspect of the Soul potentials of every being there., It treats all monads, however situated, as beings on the common path of evolution, which takes care of the rights and prerogatives of every component. THE RIGHT TO EVOLVE -- PERFECTION An atom (as a vehicle for a spiritual Monad) has rights, the same potential rights to grow and rise in experience and power, as does a human. A planet has "rights" (as a united mass of beings all evolving together) and so does a Sun, or a Galaxy. Nature -- the UNIVERSE -- sees to their observation of the LAW, and to the protection of the weak. Every being has a right to exist and to be assisted in its living by all others. The Law of Karma is Universal and can be traced and seen operating everywhere. All those Laws interact in areas of life that are "below," as well as "within," the level of consciousness and thought that are those of mankind. What are those levels? Briefly they are those that make a body possible -- the laws of chemistry, biology, physics, mathematics and psychological intelligence -- finally of the independence of the mind as faculty as well as its independently acting to become the "creator" of its own "future." THEOSOPHY, then, looks at EVOLUTION as a totally integrated and sympathetic whole. It speaks of Monads -- as the basic and individual points of consciousness that make up the whole of Everything -- Universal Space. And in that SPACE -- which has no limits discernable to us, either in terms of minuteness or in terms of greatness -- we live as individual, eternal Monads of Consciousness and Life. And, so do all other beings. The whole is alive and each one is necessary to all the others. A UNIVERSE OF ETERNAL PILGRIMS It is the Spiritual MONAD, immortal and eternal, that is named the Eternal Pilgrim. The definition given to the Monad is SPIRIT ( a Ray of the One Universal SPIRIT) in conjunction with a speck of Primordial MATTER -- named BUDDHI (wisdom) -- which means "the accumulated WISDOM of experience." [A shape or form built up of "matter" has, embedded in each "material half (Buddhi), an active memory of all its experiences over an immense past -- which means that the electro-magnetic fields, moved by Life, Desire and Mind, are ready to assume any form which Nature directs or finds to be essential.] INTELLIGENCE and CONSCIOUSNESS We most usually, as individuals when we are awake and attentive, think of ourselves as the body or the form we live in. But Science, as well as Theosophy, holds that the "form" -- any "form" -- depends on the electro-magnetic FIELDS underlying it. Science does not determine who, or how those electro-magnetic fields are established -- say, for the atoms, the molecules, the cells, and various other structures -- alloys and crystals for minerals, for plant life, branches, leaves, flowers and seeds, and then, the forms, intelligence and powers of animals, insects, fish, and infusoria, and finally, for the animal structure we humans use: the human body itself. But Science acknowledges that the body as an "effect" is there as the vehicle or container of the individual consciousness that animates millions of cells, molecules and atoms into a coherent whole, and to this it gives a CONSCIOUSNESS of selfness ( "I AM I" ). MIND AND FEELINGS Theosophy says, on the understanding that the rules of analogy and correspondence are universal, that underlying those fields of force, are the currents of LIFE-ENERGY, and in turn (looking at the human constitution) the Life-Energy is dependent for its existence on two factors: 1, our FEELINGS ("desires, vices, selfishness and passions"); and 2, on our MINDS -- which not only carry memory, but are creative, and project visions of possible improved futures which we can adopt and work towards. FREE-CHOICE It should then be clear that the element of free-choice resides in the human Mind, as it can base its decisions on the IDEAL LAWS of the Universe, or on the selfish and isolated desires of the personality, which lasts for a single life-time. The Lower Mind in this case is our "tool." We are the PERCEIVER, the Director of our Higher Minds. But when we ask: "Who are we ?" the answer is: WE are the divine Pilgrim, the Human Monad, a Ray from the ONE SPIRIT, which has chosen to incarnate again into a material situation, for the benefit we (as a spiritual being with experience) can offer to the "monads of lesser experience" which are now undergoing their own evolution in a realm, and in personal situations, where moral and ethical values are to be learned. Of the "Monads of lesser experience," there is one, which we could call our "Lower Mind." It is this that becomes the director and the chooser for all the rest. It is ourselves, as we are here and now, using our bodies and directing them. those of us who become wise and aware of this can direct themselves to idealism, to altruism and to universal acts based on a vision of the unifying ONE SPIRIT. To repeat, Theosophy holds that the ruling Intelligence in every unit of mankind is a Monad -- deathless, immortal -- which is undergoing repeated experiences in living under the fundamental Rules of Universal Law -- called Karma (action and reaction in Sanskrit and Hindu philosophy). It does this as a gift to the emerging intelligence that will in time become consciously independently immortal, and worthy of the trust implied in knowing the rules and harmonizing with the laws of nature. The LOWER MIND The tendency, as many incarnations pass, is to further individualize the "Lower Mind" -- the pilgrim Monad, and place an increasing responsibility (as it is with growing children) on it for its own, more responsible progress. This progress is always self-chosen. It demands that Man pay attention to his environment so as to learn its work and potentials, then to harmonize himself with other Human Monads. We all progress together as a great Unit made up of individual tendencies, so that the seeming individual discords and differences are consciously harmonized and trained to meld with others, who are our brother immortals. The eternal Monad that we are, is contained within its form made up of several "principles -- astral, psychical, mental, spiritual -- and within the more universal plane shared with all beings, and in all circumstances of living, our awareness is being expanded.). As said, these laws are set, so that the existence of "Monads of lesser experience" and "Monads of greater experience," may live together in brotherhood, the more advanced being expected to lend the hand of friendship and experience to those who have had less. The teacher/pupil relationship is a universal one. Every family, every community, every nation witnesses it. KARMA RETURNS OUR CHOICES TO US In no case is any terror, torture, or destruction a part of the duty of any Monad in its relations with other monads. If and when this might happen (because of selfishness, misunderstanding, a desire for isolation) a distortion in impressed on those Monads who are our charge, our "children," entrusted to us, and under our guidance and tuition. Should we distort them, and then release them into the world to follow other paths of natural attraction open to them, they are incorporated elsewhere, but, eventually they cycle back to us. When this happens, a mass of those so distorted by us, become, for us, the basis for an accident, or circumstances that bring the same kind of pain and sorrow on us -- as we had imposed earlier on some other Monad. This, is the balancing process of Nature -- which seeks to teach us the responsibilities of virtue, all the time, of equity, honesty and brotherhood in regard to all beings. This, in effect, is what the Great Souls, the Mahatmas, achieve -- to be an impersonal Force for GOOD in Nature. Theosophy is a record of their observation and teaching, for us to study, test, and apply when we are satisfied it is useful and practical. In other words the process and Path of Evolution in the Universe is not natural when there is oppression, judgment, or discipline imposed by the "arrogant mighty," on the "weak and defenseless." To do this in secrecy is specially abhorred -- it adds hypocrisy to the burden of "bad karma" and evil in the world. FREE MINDS As human Monads, we are said to be endowed with independent Minds. This independence of the Mind gives the Great Ones the capacity of perceiving all the invisible records of the Past of every being, as they are impressed on the leaves of the imperishable "Akasa." The Akas is the living, super-sensuous plane where a record of all ranges of vibration, electro-magnetic effects, and, self-conscious decisions are made. As Humans, observing others, we may judge their act and the words, but we are never sure that our "judgment" is accurate. Certainly it is not the INDIVIDUAL MONAD who may have erred, but only its reflection embedded in the mind and the desire nature of a human. At no point have we the wisdom to impose an ideal punishment that compensates the victim for his injury and suffering, and to the oppressor a full consciousness of the error made. Nor are the Mahatmas such "judges." NATURE which sees all and feels all, and KNOWS all is alone equipped to handle the educative and the re-adjustment process. Nor are we empowered to retaliate or mete out judgment to a "sinner," or one whom we may judge to have erred. [ A review of our own lives in memory will show that there have been many a moral error that has not been publicly revealed, nor have we been held accountable -- a form of hypocrisy -- but the infinite sensitivity and wisdom of Nature holds us fully accountable, as it has an imperishable record of all we have thought, felt and done. ] EVIL -- Can it be defined ? What then is evil? Put is very simply. It is an unwitting, or a deliberate transgression against the law of BROTHERHOOD which is paramount in our evolutionary process. IT IS THE BREAKING OF NATURE'S LAW OF BROTHERHOOD and COMPASSION. Breaking Nature's laws, and unfairly, or unjustly, making another a victim, is an evil. The only mitigation we can offer after the event, is to expose our error to the victims and attempt to make immediate and full restitution. Delay on our part, merely adds to the eventual debt we will have to repay. One might say that the eternal Law of the World and the Universe is: HARMONY and Progress. Anything that distorts or delays this, is an "evil." OMNIPRESENCE -- THE POWER TO HARMONIZE And, Nature alone has the wisdom and the POWER to take care of those transgressions and repair the harm done. It is also charged with the education of the Monads who unwisely create evil. They have to be brought (by Nature, impersonally, not by men) to see the error of their decision. Circumstances and accidents are brought to bear (by Nature), from WITHIN the form of the transgressor. This is not to be done by any "outside" agency. It is done by Nature itself. When we create oppressive and unjust circumstances we distort the "Monads of lesser experience" that are under our tuition. When they cycle back to us, they bring to us the consequences of our evil deeds or words. Your description of the learning process is indeed a wonderful experience. It is well known. If you wish you will be able to find a similar one described in LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME by Mr. W. Q. Judge -- This book is available. Would you like to see a copy ? It is available through http://www.blavatsky.net for reading or down-loading. We all "learn" individually, but the communion of fellow pupils and students is a blessing as often one's experiences and surmises can be cross checked for accuracy and experience with others. Loosing one's temper is something we observe because we are detached. To avoid repeating this, we ought to take at least several minutes to think thing over before answering or reacting. If we delay we can think of some better way to secure adjustment. We have to "slow down" our reactions, specially if we know they are tending to be impulsive. TEACHING OURSELVES We are the ones who give the TRUTH to ourselves (to the Lower Mind which is in present control of our material form). The "Path of Liberation" implies that we separate ourselves from impulses that arise from passion and desire. It is difficult, but it can be done. One of the best ways is to "put ourselves in the place of the other." This means we ought to say before reacting: "Suppose I was the other fellow? How would I like to be treated ? Brotherhood and the opportunity to do active "Good" will tell us how to act. We are "in the flesh" which is made up of Monads, because we are responsible for their education. We cannot "liberate" ourselves ( WHICH IS SELFISHNESS) until those have been helped to develop and become each one PURE in their turn, and fully responsible for their own destiny. This is the great Law of SPIRITUAL SELF-SACRIFICE. AFTER-DEATH STATES Study carefully the teachings of the after-death states. Note that the triad of ATMA-BUDHI-MANAS ( the Higher Mind) is immortal. The "after-death" states are of importance to the "Lower Mind." This is the Monad that has reached the human stage of responsibility and is learning how to live and act in harmony with the Karmic Law of Harmony in Nature. Every good deed, word, or impulse is in the after-death state meditated on and engrafted on its consciousness and memory. It becomes as said earlier, an aspect of its Buddhi-the immortal memory of its existence -- a part of its WISDOM. This individualized "wisdom," is of course, part of the universal WISDOM also. In what you write you need to define exactly what "I" or "WE" are in terms of the principles. It is the "IMMORTAL." It is the Higher Mind become one with Atma and Buddhi. "Faith" is a dangerous word. because it usually means to accept without proof. Theosophy on the contrary asks us to PROVE EVERYTHING FOR OURSELVES, so that we will transform "faith" or "belief" into actually proved knowledge. We can do that by carefully studying the logic in Theosophy. The KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) has to be read carefully several times. PRAYER - MEDITATION To "pray" in secret is the same as meditation on the teachings and attempting to prove them -- are they correct or incorrect ? Theosophy shows us the integrated universe. No superstitions, no "beliefs," no "magic," but always laws and sound reasons for everything. Theosophy says that what is called "miracle" by some is only a deeper understanding of the laws of Nature. CORRECTING OUR HABITS We can stop making mistakes if we are not impulsive. We have to learn to take time to respond and not to answer or act on the moment. We should always make sure that others understand our needs and wants BEFORE HAND. We cannot expect them (except in rare cases) to anticipate us all the time. Wisdom is not suddenly acquired. Like all things, it is discovered; and then made a part of our living. The rule is: "Putting ones' self in the place of another one may not oppress or blame them. We have to seek to express ourselves with charity and compassion. To be wise we need to seek to assist to raise others to the common level of all wisdom." We will all raise ourselves together. No one is able to soar very far beyond others. SPIRITUAL FREEDOM We always have our spiritual freedom. As spiritual Monads, we have taken on the responsibility of being a tutor to another "Monad" -- one who also desires to acquire its spiritual freedom. Our duty will not stop until they have acquired it. The personality, our Lower Mind is the one we are advising. We cannot do the work for it. It has to be encouraged to do it for itself. This duty requires a great deal of patience. We as Spiritual Beings have this patience, and we need to get the Lower Mind to gain the facility of also doing this: patience, calmness, attention, virtue in action and attention. But we cannot force it. That would be tyranny and would be the opposite of spiritual instruction. We can only ADVISE. We cannot force the Lower Mind to become SPIRITUAL. It has to want to become spiritual. You and me, and every member of the human race is in the same condition. That is why it is reported that "God" said to St. Paul: "My grace is sufficient to you." What is meant there is what is just explained: The Divine Monad (ATMA-BUDDHI-- HIGHER MIND -- our inner GOD) speaks to the Lower Mind. It gives advice. It says: "My "grace" is "Spiritual Advice." Consider it, and use it." This is exactly what Theosophy teaches. SAYINGS OF JESUS When Jesus says he will return to take the disciples with Him, it means: "As the SPIRITUAL MONAD I will always be WITH YOU. If you follow my advice, you will be able to raise yourself and return to the SPIRITUAL CONDITION from which you came." (That advice is given by Jesus ( the DIVINE MAN) to the disciples witch are the Lower Minds that aspire to become DIVINE. [ In John, 10, 34-05, you will find Jesus turning to his disciples and saying: "Know ye not ye are gods?"] The PATH of SPIRITUAL WISDOM The "many mansions" are the conditions of spiritual wisdom which each disciple acquires, as active faculties, to use to do good, each in his own way and at his own pace, on his personal ascent to re-become a DIVINE INDIVIDUAL. We are all on that "Path." Our minds see the goal. We also see our impatience. But we "as the 'higher aspect' of the Lower Mind" have to purify, placate, calm and direct our own lower Mind in ways that enable it to spiritualize itself. NOTHING IS DONE as a "GIFT," nor is any work done for us. We have to do all the work ourselves. It is the misinterpretation of Jesus' sayings that have caused all the misunderstandings in the Church and which has turned Jesus' advice upside down. All the great saints have seen and known and practiced this. Calmness, discrimination, impersonality, wisdom and universality are keys to self-improvement and spiritual re-birth. We, the Divine Self, watch the Lower Mind which is in this place of material things all the time. It teaches by advice-- and asks the Lower Self to judge its own actions. It says: "If you wish to be wise, then make your judgments wisely AHEAD OF TIME and not after the event." The "FLESH" and KARMA The "flesh" represents the Karma of our past choices. It is made up of "monads of lesser experience." We have used them in the past and they have cycled back to us and to others. These "Monads of lesser experience," have been used and impressed for good or evil by us in the past. According to how we used them (for good or evil) they either assist or delay us now. If we have difficulties, we created those in the past by our free choices. If we wish to improve our future, we should take care now not to magnify and enlarge our old errors. It is only in the present that we can make changes for our future. If we know something is wrong and break the Laws of Nature (our Voice of Conscience advises us constantly -- so we instantly know what is good or bad) then we know, if we indulge ourselves in some vice, secretly or openly, we merely create a painful future for ourselves. Is it worthwhile for a fleeting pleasure (now) to do wrong things? We cannot hide them from Nature, as there is no such thing as secrecy, and there can be no hypocrisy in our dealings with NATURE. [ God is omnipresent and omniscient, and hence knows everything even our secret thoughts and acts. ] The "flesh" is a vital part of Nature. It is not naturally opposed to Nature, nor does it cause us to do wrong, or sin. We, the Lower Mind choose to break Nature's Laws and create our own sins. We cannot blame any one else but ourselves. The Karma that threatens us is that Karma that we have created in our own past. The "terrestrial Ego" is the LOWER MANAS -- the mind that is involved in passions and desires, and is impulsive and selfish. In the present we can balance and offset it if we wish to. Yes, it will take time. Spiritual knowledge is the sword that enables us to cut away the illusion and delusion of selfishness and vice. Karma operates always, it is neither "good" nor is it "bad." it is impartial. If it may be considered to have a motive, we could say that it encourages each being to progress in harmony with all the rest. What is the EARTH? As to our planet the Earth -- it is made up those elements (Monads of lesser experience) that depend on the Spiritual Monads (ATMA -BUDDHI-MANAS) to help the Lower Mind to become pure. The Earth will become spiritual and pure once that we have purified ourselves. Humanity always stands midway between the pure and the impure. It is we, as "Lower Manas" who are the great cleaning agents. We don't have to leave the earth and go elsewhere. Our work is right here. In fact, Nature will not let us roam elsewhere until our duties and tasks are finished here. We will have assisted NATURE (GOD) to make a "heaven on earth." Then only will our work be finished. But, it will take a very long time, so patience, generosity, compassion and calmness are the first virtues to be cultivated. Yes, this is what is meant by merging the "ocean in the drop and the drop within the Ocean." It is another way of expressing the paradox: The SPIRITUAL and the MATERIAL, the Good and the Evil -- are everywhere present. It is man, because of his HIGHER MIND, who is able to serve as the magic "philosophers' stone" that transforms evil into good by attention, discipline and wisdom that is patiently and calmly acquired. We have to make the determination and the effort. We are the Eternal Pilgrims in the Army of the SPIRIT THAT IS ONE. Best wishes, as always, Your brother, X Z X From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 17:24:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 49892 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:12 -0000 Received: from pool0566.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.154.56] helo=earthlink) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Lwc5-0007fZ-00; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:24:10 -0800 To: Subject: RE: LIKE it!! [readme--What is Self-Empowerment and Integrity?] Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:20:14 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 Wednesday, January 02, 2002 Dear CeeKaye: To put it very succinctly: There are in every human being two great Principles: 1) the SPIRITUAL and Divine -- which knows everything and shares its wisdom with all other spiritual beings 2.) th Personality which is like a pupil trying to become spiritual. It has a curriculum displayed before it of the science of Universal Life and of the Goal (graduation ?) of Perfection. It remains for it to choose where and what i will do. It also decides how far and how fast it will go. THEOSOPHY may be said to be like a "curriculum." It provides us with a view of the depths and the time-periods we have available to use. It also says that we can transform ourselves from limited perspectives to unlimited wisdom. Best wishes, Dallas ============================= -----Original Message----- From: CK Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:47 PM To: Subject: i LIKE it!! [readme--What is Self-Empowerment and Integrity?] What is Self-Empowerment and Integrity? The positive path is the integral path. The only "one truth" is that THE truth is the composite of all truths. There is no "one truth" or one reality. If there were only one truth there would only be one person, place, thing. Look around you. All beings are all the ways that "All That Is" has of expressing itself (these truths) within the creation that it is. It is the disbelief in one's own power to be what it inspires them to be that creates negativity and the belief in the need to attack ideas that the negative ego fears will invalidate identity. Self-Empowered- Is the recognition that we have everything we need at any given moment to be the fullest we can be. It embraces the idea that we know we create our reality 100% by what we believe and/or have been taught to believe to be "true." The empowered individual recognizes that their reality is created from all levels of psychic material, i.e., unconscious, conscious, collective unconscious, superconscious, and that although they may be at a loss in the present to understand how the reality they have created fits, it still must fit, and that sooner or later they will understand why they have created what they have created. They understand that the physical world is the effect of the non-physical spiritual template archetypally, and that all springs from the inner self which is connected firmly to "All That Is". This archetypal template is reflected through the Zodiac and galactic and planetary relationships. Empowerment comes from within. Knowing we are as connected to the ALL as we will ever be, we can trust that we lack nothing, we have all the tools and all the abilities that we require at any given moment to be anything we are willing and bold enough to believe we can define ourselves to be. We are always in control 100% even when we use 90% to create the illusion that we have only the other 10%. No one can make us feel inferior, thwart our inspirations, or derail what we know to be true for ourselves without our agreement and consent. The self-empowered being recognizes that the universe has no built-in meaning and this view is the unbiased and discerning view. Taking responsibility (not guilt) for our reality because we know it is our creation, is the self-empowered approach. Many confuse acknowledging one's creations with believing we must be punished or shamed for them (guilt, the opposite of love). This is from judging the creation and hence ourselves, not taking responsibility for it. Integrity= Functioning as an integrated whole self, without placing power outside of the self, because nothing is truly outside of the self. Integrity consists of the recognition that we are as powerful as we need to be to create whatever we desire to create in our reality, without having to MALIGN or HURT ourselves or anyone else in order to create it (power-LESS behavior). We are always a part of the problem or of the solution. Our position on this scale is defined by our actions. Action is the evidence of the convictions, intentions, and beliefs held by an individual. Intention can only be conveyed by the creator of the intention (please see my discussions of discernment vs. projection). If it is true for them, then integrity will follow and only the positive can result from integral intentions. Because we create our reality utterly, we are not responsible FOR anyone only responsible TO them by being as much as we can be in integrity by following our bliss and excitement and discerning our OWN intention. The All is vibration, and the vibration you are within this all will BE the reality you experience everywhere, all the time. No matter what other reality may be in existence at any given moment. It always works this way, and no-one is exempt. Negative beliefs do not have any more power than positive. Ridicule is negative and tells us of the perpetrator, not the ridiculed. These ideas are choices, so they are not necessarily "unfortunate", for every being creates their reality utterly as the product of what they believe or have been taught to believe is true. The truth is composed of all truths within any given system of reference containing its own reinforcing logic. Any individual or group who acts as though they must force their opinions and beliefs upon any other faction, cannot believe in the power of those beliefs themselves. Individuals can choose act in positive ways or in negative ways. A) Positive is simply integrative, unifying, expansive, inclusive as a WHOLE (integral). B) Negative is separative, segregative, limited, conflicted functions in PARTS. But the positive individual, by the light by which they shine, will simply show the negative individual(s) that they are; A) Untouchable and unthwarted by anything that is not of a similar vibration. And that; B) They offer back to the negative individual(s) an offering of a choice, a choice to also be positive. If the other(s) do not choose to be positive then they can simply go their own way, for that which is negative cannot exist within the blinding light of that which is positive, it is simple mechanics-physics. Even if they are sitting next to you. That is all. Even if the negativity is intentional, the positive person will still extract a positive effect and resolve developmental tension to harness positive benefit. Action is the manifested evidence of conviction and belief, because life happens through you not to you. No one can interpret a life or vibrational level at which they themselves have not, or are not capable of functioning, because all is vibration. From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 02 17:24:44 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 73042 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 01:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 01:24:43 -0000 Received: from pool0566.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.154.56] helo=earthlink) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16LwcJ-0007fZ-00; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:24:23 -0800 To: Subject: RE H P B on ASTROLOGY Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:20:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573 January 2, 2002 Re: What does ASTROLOGY mean ? What aspect of our nature responds to the concept of discovering the future? If we were to secure accurate knowledge -- what would we use it for ? Dear Friends: I wonder if I might be allowed to break in here with my 2 c ? We are all involved in considering a most important aspect of our lives, even though we may be many miles apart. May we consider a few facts of our common living? We live together, here and now, on the Earth. This appears to be FATE. But, are we not associated with some vital and useful function here ? How can we assure ourselves of the justice of this situation? What is our actual relation with our environment and with others around us ? Why do some "accept" their situation and others "are dissatisfied, and want to move?" Other it is true only want to discover if their position is fair and just to them. Can thy secure proof that this is so ? Also, that you (and I, and all of us) live in a body, and can direct it pretty much as you / we decide, -- this ought to settle the question of existence (I THINK, THEREFORE, I AM ); and, of (FREE WILL) = I CHOOSE. (But our choices are found on retrospect to be limited by things we opted for in the past and present, even if they are "free" for the future.) Obviously any present choices we may make, are going to affect our future. If I should stick my head below water, and keep it there, I will inevitably drown. If I put my finger in boiling water, it gets scalded, etc... We all know of common laws in nature that produce instantaneous results. We are uncertain when, and how, the moral (ethical) effects of actions or decisions we make, are going to turn up. The question is fundamentally: Are there any ethical and moral Laws in nature? Are we involved in them? How shall we define the concept of morals and ethics? Is it community convenience, are they actual rules and laws common to every aspect of Nature ? How ought we to approach them? Is religion the only arbiter and judge of such matters? If so, then what is the place of common jurisprudence? What is that based on ? Is there such a thing as "Conscience?" What is "Intuition? How do we know that what is "right" for us, is also "right" for others ? What aspect of our nature permits these faculties to exist? Is there an innate sense of justice and fairness? Can we agree on such things? We are also uncertain about the Soul. Do we have one? In which case, who or what are "We ?" And what does a "Soul" do ? Is it useful? How so ? Can it be defined? Does it think? Does it act? Is it a thing, or a figment of the imagination? We all have this faculty to ask questions, and to seek for answers -- so perhaps that is not in question. But the duality of our being is: 1). The body is independent of, and yet, is also responsive to the directions given to it by our decisions backed by that mysterious force we call the WILL. There is here, a give / take relationship. In other words the objective seems to be the slave, tool, servant, etc... of the SUBJECTIVE, the INVISIBLE MAN. Is this true? 2), The CHOOSER, or the WILLER is (or lives) inside of the body -- and examination and definition. makes it appears to consist of a pair of contrasting positions, each having administrative and seemingly independent, but opposite, powers. If we look within ourselves, at what we call loosely the psychic nature -- ours -- we may discover that they are also interrelated and conjoined with the faculties generally ascribed to Mind -- but, somehow, different. These two are: 1.) Our emotions consisting of feelings, opinions, desires, passions, and such other elements as greed, anger, wants, desire, -- all focused on the health and continued well-being of the personal being that we are (including the body). 2.) Our Mind, which (when it is detached from the feelings and emotions) is colorless. It can be directed to consider the elements of discovery, memory; it discriminates and weighs the potential effects of various courses (and possible results) of potential actions -- it employs the logic of fact and also of imagination, and it knows the difference between the two. It can plan and then accept or reject the possible results of the adoption of several or many plans. It has sometimes been called the PLANNER. By observation it seems that the Mind has superior powers of decision making than those of the "desire-nature." When we say "WE," do we mean the Mind? But examination shows that WE direct our minds where we WILL. The answer to the question: "Who are We." remains to be settled. What emerges is that the Mind in each of us is like a tool that can be employed, directed and supervised. It also seems to occasionally use executive powers under the influence of the two powers discussed above: the "desires and passions, and 2, the wisdom of experience which as memory is also part of our make-up. If we consider the existence and the action of our Mind, we discover that at one end, it is very wise because it is in constant contact with the WISE SPIRITUAL Base of our IMMORTAL BEING. This basis is -- universal -- and it is designated SPIRIT because it tends to provide fair, just, and generally useful suggestion and answers to our problems. It is also distinguished by the fact that all its applications, which are virtuous, such as Universal brotherhood appear to be common sentiments among all honorable humans. It appreciates universal laws that are generous, charitable, honorable, harmonious with others' needs and wants. There is in us, (we all find) a resident Memory of all experiences we have been through in this and earlier lives. Theosophy calls it BUDDHI ( Wisdom) and states that it has memory tablets (called the Akasic record) which is imperishable. On it are recorded the acts and motives of all beings. If we want to know our Karma we have to learn how to read those Akasic records relative to ourselves -- as imperishable Monads, who have been through all experiences in the past. At the other end, we may discover that there is a tendency to rashness and daring, that urges us to follow the impulses of our DESIRE NATURE. To that extent it embodies folly. It can be most persuasive, as it tends to maximize the possible selfish benefits of actions which benefit itself (ourselves) alone if adopted. This aspect inspires us with the false courage of discovery -- a willingness to take a "leap of faith" even if we have no idea of what conditions, so far invisible, are going to be. It might be termed rashness and daring, and a careless disregard for others and for our own selves. Any set of circumstances arises from its own past. It owes its "past" to the decisions we made "then." This line of recession is infinitely long as we deal with an entity (the MONAD) which is defined as "eternal." Of course if we deny such an immortality, then we are left with the personality encased in the body of the moment which has usually our most intense consideration. But we are still unable to answer the question: "Why am I here? What can I do? Is there an optimum method of living ? Am I following such a program ? Let us see what Theosophy has to tell us: The Immortal Monad (as an eternal ENTITY), does not incarnate for its own private or personal advantage, or "good." It incarnates and forms an association with the "Personality" of the "monad of lesser experience" it is befriending. It is a partnership in which the experienced Monad can only ADVISE the actual Monad (of lesser experience) that is involved. [ See TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE, pp. 66 to 78. ; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. X; se also S D II 167, 246, 254-5, 275] Of course there are limits to "free-will" as to capacity -- we cannot fly by ourselves even though we may "will" it. But, using the mind and after much trial and effort, we can build an airplane. The airplane enables flight for us, but it also harnesses the forces and properties of materials which Nature has provided. In the process of devising, we learn all those. levitation is also spoken of and cases advanced where it has been witnessed -- but the causes and reasons for such unusual events remain secrets of Nature. Yet, we imagine if we had "magical powers" we could employ them to change our condition of wealth, comfort, pleasure, etc... But let us ask: How does Nature control such a situation ? Can it be considered to be an excess? By the application of fair, just and equal laws to all, how does it happen? Karma is the answer -- it does not "punish" but only readjusts -- How? By placing us (who choose) into the exact position of the persons we may choose to oppress or to make our victims in the past. Similarly for "good." if we do good we reap the recompense in equal and fair measure. Nature is never unjust If we analyse it, the only reason we do evil or act selfishly is because we think we can "escape" the consequences of o