From noone@nowhere.com Sat Sep 01 08:31:56 2001 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: message missing To: theos-talk@egroups.com From: "Message Missing" message missing From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 08:31:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 91748 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 15:31:55 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.168.29e01a (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <168.29e01a.28c25964@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:31:48 EDT Subject: A tip... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subject: RE: To Pedro from Cassandra From: Gopi Chari Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:45:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 16 Hi Pedro, Glad to see you are from Miami. I am from Bradenton (next to Sarasota). I wonder how many more are from Florida! 2222222222222222222222222222 Here's a tip (a more earthy one) from Jacksonville , Fl. When or if you file away any BN study material and you have many files on your machine. When you put the file in your folder re name it _BNstudy.txt or _THEOSWOR.txt (note the _ in the beginning of the name) >From then on it will always be in the FRONT and ON TOP of all the text files. (This works with all other files as well). From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 08:35:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 15:35:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5121 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.18.11b092e3 (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18.11b092e3.28c25a22@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:34:58 EDT Subject: A movement? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subj: The joint is jumping... Date: 8/30/01 6:53:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: DNisk98114 To: Abhilashi The Giant Jump, which launches Britain's Science Year, will take place on 7 September at 11 am and go straight into The Guinness Book of Records as "the greatest simultaneous jump in history". Everyone taking part will jump for one minute, and the results will be monitored on seismometers and sensing equipment. Although this is the largest jump that has been attempted, it will not be the first time that people jumping up and down have caused the ground to shake. Alice Walker, a seismologist at the British Geological Survey, recalls: "In November 1995, Londoners contacted Scotland Yard claiming they had experienced an earthquake tremor. Investigations revealed that 20,000 rock fans had been jumping up and down to Oasis in Earl's Court, and tremors were being reported from up to one mile away. It will be interesting to see if hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions of school students can beat Oasis." Science Year, which runs from September 2001 to August 2002, aims to raise awareness of science among young people aged 10 to 19 years. See http://www.scienceyear.com to find out more. If any readers further afield have seismological equipment, let us know if the tremors caused by the British jump travel round the world. From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 09:34:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 16:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 87300 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.161) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.89.b6d1966 (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89.b6d1966.28c267fe@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:34:06 EDT Subject: Another outlook.... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Might I suggest this site , as it has a good approach to a linkage of the earthly term amnesia and reincarnation and is a fascinating approach to an ongoing "problem" in humanity's structure. (although the author ,somewhat, disavows any connection to Theosophy , persay , he seems to us to be going in a good direction , in the opinion of this poster)) Amnesia From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:25:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 18144 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12307; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-basic] What is a Theosophist? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:19:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Dear Friends: I think your answer was superb. It covered all bases. If you want more ideas or definitions, then look at these: When the THEOSOPHIST was first published in Oct. 1879 in Bombay ( Vol. I, p. 5) one of the first articles by H P B was WHAT ARE THE THEOSOPHISTS ? It is worth re-reading. [Reprints in H P B Articles -- U L T -- Vol. I p. 48; and, BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) ] What does H P B say? " [Theosophists are] ... "students of natural law, of ancient and modern philosophy, and...exact science." (p. 48)..."psychological sciences..." ( p. 49) ... "examine Spiritualism" ( p. 49) ... "the leading members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in India [ in 1879] are known to be very advanced students of occult phenomena"... (p. 50) ... "one of our many objects is to revive the work of Ammonius Saccas [ see early pages of the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ] and make various nations remember that they are the children "of one another." .... The Society as a body has no creed, as creeds are, but the shells around spiritual knowledge; and Theosophy is in its fruition, SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE ITSELF..." ( p. 50) ... [seekers] "for the final truth as to the ultimate essence of things." (p. 51) ... "the religion of the Society is an algebraical equation in which so long as the sign = of equality is not omitted, each member is allowed to substitute his own...idiosyncrasies ..." ( p. 50) ... "all original thinkers and investigators" ( p. 51) ... "One need but worship the spirit of living nature, the invisible Cause, which is ever yet manifesting itself in its incessant results; the intangible, omnipotent, and omniscient Proteus" (p. 51)... " once that a student abandons the old and trodden highway of routine, and enters upon the solitary path of independent thought--Godward--he is a theosophist; an original thinker, a seeker after the eternal truth with "an inspiration of his own" to solve the universal problems." (p. 52). On p. 54, the 2nd paragraph (same article) is of course a wonderful one. But this can be referred to if one goes to the on-line version available through BLAVATSKY NET. Best wishes, Dallas ============================= -----Original Message----- From: E----- P--------- Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:15 PM To: Subject: What is a Theosophist? Dear Folks: Recently, I was asked my religious affiliation. I answered: "All and none, I am a Theosophist." The person looked at me with a genuine surprise and asked: "What is a Theosophist?" Now came the difficult part, at least for me. I could have quoted about 300 pages of the SD, but then I would have seen her eyes glaze over, and gone would have been my opportunity to spread the word. If I had answered: "I study the ancient wisdom religion," I would have been compelled to state what the ancient wisdom religion was. What was it? If I had answered: "I study the kernel of truth that lies as the foundation of all religions." Well, even I would have been appalled at how pompous I sounded and would have separated myself from me and joined her across the room. What I finally did say, was: "I believe in the fundamental principle of ONE LIFE reflected in all. And that all the religions at the most basic told the story of that ONE LIFE. And she answered: "that's interesting, tell me more?" And so I turn to you guys. What do you think I should have said? Respectfully, Estela Piscope --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnbasic/basicSyllabus.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-basic as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-basic-6660818H@lists.lyris.net From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:25:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 61952 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11557; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) To: "BN-BASIC" , "BN-STUDY" Subject: RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:18:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <89.b6d1966.28c267fe@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Dear Friends: Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on the skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few weeks ) and separated into two categories. The separation consists in dividing the personal and selfish impression-memories from the Individual-altruistic and virtuous memories. The latter are carried into Devachan for extensive review and a building into the permanent character of the IMMORTAL PILGRIM (EGO) The KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) explains this very carefully. The following clearly expresses the path of return to earth-life: ""The place where the line of involution and evolution meet is the incarnation of the descending gods--ourselves--in the highest evolved form. The analogy is seen in any reincarnation. The consciousness leaves the body, which goes to pieces on its own plane. When the real man returns, he has to wait until the lower lives have built up a form for him into which he may enter, this form being built under the impress given by the real man in other lives. A Manvantara is an enlarged and expanded similar process. We came from the Moon, where we had evolved form to a degree. At pralaya all things stopped evolution of form; on re-manifestation, the lower lives or "builders" began to build up as before, and as their impress and previous building admitted. When the form of man had reached the highest previous point reached, the Kumaras, or real men, overshadowed and entered to carry on the evolution further. "They, and no other, are we." Crosbie in F P, p. 98-9 The new physical body being rebuilt from the "matter stuff" (monads of lesser experience) of previous lives, used by the Real man, no longer carry a defined and clear image of previous personalities -- and the physical brain of the infant, being new, "amnesia" is the result. But the EGO, the Real man, remembers. If the matter to be reused in the new incarnation has been purified by right livelihood in the past life, then, if needed, a recollection and remembrance of previous personalities may arise. Mr. Judge speaks of this [see LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME (1946, U L T Edn.) p. 250, 254, 119 -- "the astral man does not re-incarnate except in exceptional cases." Best wishes, Dallas] ======================== -----Original Message----- From: D---N---- Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:34 AM To: Subject: Another outlook.... MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Might I suggest this site , as it has a good approach to a linkage of the earthly term amnesia and reincarnation and is a fascinating approach to an ongoing "problem" in humanity's structure. (although the author ,somewhat, disavows any connection to Theosophy , per say , he seems to us to be going in a good direction , in the opinion of this poster)) Amnesia From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:26:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 63753 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15472; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:54 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] "Burlons" Elementals, Elementaries ? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:19:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Re "burlon" Sounds like an Elemental or an Elementary ? Dear Estela: Sounds like a mischievous elemental if not an elementary In the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY Mr. Judge devotes Chapters 16 and 17 (about 15 pages to a review of the astral plane and the elementals. That gives a quick survey. The others articles give more and specific details. Why not check out some of H P B's articles: -- H P B Articles vol. II 127 ELEMENTALS "Lucifer" Vol. 12, p. 537, Aug. 1893 H P B Articles II 164 THOUGHTS ON THE ELEMENTALS "Lucifer" Vol. 6, p 177, May 1890 Modern Panarion p. 146 ELEMENTARIES (and the next article) H P B Articles II p. 38, 194 DIALOGUES BETWEEN THE TWO EDITORS "Lucifer" W Q Judge Articles Vol. I CONVERSATIONS WITH H P B ON OCCULTISM [ see pp. 383, 390, 394, 400, 405, 413, 423, 431, 435, ] "Path" It looks like a lot of reading, but the subject is quite vast. Best wishes, Dallas ======================== -----Original Message----- From: e---- p------ Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:00 PM To: Subject: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth -- elementals / elementaries Hi Folks, In Spanish there is a term "burlon" which is the name of an entity or person on the physical or astral plane. This burlon will trick a person, through sweet words and high praises into believing things, that in fact are silly and allows the burlon to laugh at the victim's delusions. The problem is that in this field of spiritual pursuit, we are open to an array of "burlones" who exist in reality. They do create endless variations of "new age" deceptions, of which the bookstores are filled with the latest. In a sense the problem is that the "burlones" prey upon the better virtues of earnest seekers. What we are wanting to do on this list is to point the true path. This true path is the result of ages and upon ages of occult masters studying this subject, it is not a fad, it is not something new, it is the ancient wisdom. It is the task of the Theosophist to point out the illusions and help others not to go down paths that only entrap them into a world of delusion, and religiosity. Respectfully, Estela cut From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 13:18:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 20:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 5549 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0582.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.72]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20616; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:16:36 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: WHAT IS THEOSOPHY ? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:10:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Sunday, September 02, 2001 Dear Friends: As the subject "What is theosophy" arose in a discussion I thought I would offer some ideas and quotations which might be of help ============== QUOTES ======================= THEOSOPHY -- What Is It ? "Theosophy is Divine Knowledge, or Science, "Divine Wisdom" (Theo-Sophia) -- the term is many thousand years old." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 1. "Theosophy is synonymous with everlasting Truth." KEY TO THEOSOPHY, p. 302. "We have no two beliefs or hypotheses on the same subject." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 72. "Theosophy is the substratum and basis of all the world-religions and philosophies taught and practised by a few elect ever since man became a thinking being." The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY p. 328. "The "Wisdom Religion" is the inheritance of all the nations, the world over." S D I xviii "Theosophy [is]...the one bond of unity which is so universal and all-embracing that no man, as no speck -- from gods and mortals down to animals, the blade of grass and atom -- can be outside of its light. Therefore any organization or body of that name [Theosophical] must necessarily be a Universal Brotherhood." H P B --- IS THEOSOPHY A RELIGION ? H P B Articles, (U L T), Vol. I, p 59, [ LUCIFER Nov. 1888.] Theosophy is Not New This suggests that THEOSOPHY is not a new fangled system of collated ideas drawn from many sources -- in fact if it were even that, then the marvel is of HPB's mind and capacity in drawing such a vast diversity together and showing how the many pieces hang together to form a seamless whole in the world of ideas and concepts. In our experience and wide reading, there is no one who has written such a comprehensive view of our world, universe and the important part that Mankind plays in that. Who was H P Blavatsky? HPB does not claim "authority." She claims to be a "messenger." Specifically a messenger from the Great and Ancient Lodge of ADEPTS. In both ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE she disclaims any personal authority and gives the credit for the records she transmits to the Real Authors, the Mahatmas. [ see Certificate of authorship, by H P B and the two Mahatmas, PATH, Vol. VIII, p. 1 ] Since she was well aware that the Theosophical theories and hypotheses would be received with various degrees of incredulity from the academies, she was careful to make it clear that the information was in reality taken from the HISTORY that the Adepts and their disciples (chelas) had recorded down the ages. All that she requested was "equal time" and open consideration of what Theosophy had to offer. ":When, years ago, we first traveled over the East, exploring the penetralia of its deserted sanctuaries, two saddening and ever-recurring questions oppressed our thoughts: Where, who what is GOD ? Who ever saw the IMMORTAL SPIRIT of man, so as to be able to assure himself of man's immorality? It was while most anxious to solve those perplexing problems that we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly designate them as the sages of the Orient. To their instructions we lent a ready ear. They showed us that by combining science with religion, the existence of God and immortality of man's spirit may be demonstrated like a problem of Euclid. For the first time we receive the assurance that the Oriental philosophy has room for no other faith than an absolute and immovable faith in the omnipotence of man's own immortal self. We were taught that this omnipotence comes from the kinship of man's spirit with the Universal Soul--God ! The latter, they said, can never be demonstrated but by the former. Man-spirit proves God-spirit, as the one drop of water proves a source from which it must have come...all the rest may be inferred...Blind faith would no longer be necessary, he would have supplanted it by KNOWLEDGE....prove the soul of man by its wondrous powers--you have proved God !" I U I p. vi "The essence of Theosophy is the perfect harmonizing of the divine with the human in man." H P B -- FIVE MESSAGES TO AMERICAN THEOSOPHISTS , p. 6. What does Theosophy teach? The immortality of man's Spirit/Soul and the "God-spirit" being present in every "life-atom" of our LIVING UNIVERSE are fundamental concepts. Everything in Nature trends in its life-experience towards a higher degree of knowledge, wisdom, perfection. Each life-cycle (incarnation) is like a separate day at school and all are drawn together by the uniting thread of the immortal, and eternal spiritual Self which is at their core. In fact she shows how Theosophy traces the evolution of the "consciousness and intelligence" of the SPIRITUAL SOUL or Monad, through many forms -- from the atom to the human condition of independent free-will. This sweep and concept is one that can be traced in every one of the great religions and philosophies of the world. It is the record of their existence and of our participation, again and again, in those processes. What had H P B to say? In one place it is reported:-- "Her main teachings can be reduced to the following propositions: That Morals have a basis in Law and in fact. That Moral law is Natural Law. That Evolution makes for Righteousness. That the "fundamental identity of all souls with the Oversoul" renders moral contagion possible through the subtle psychic medium. That the Spiritual Identity of all Being renders Universal brotherhood the only possible path for the truth- seeking man." H P B Articles (U L T ) Vol. I p. 115. From SHE BEING DEAD YET SPEAKETH -- PATH, July 1892 ; Vol 7, p. 121 ] "True Theosophy is everything that aids or elevates mankind; and our chief object is not so much to gratify individual aspirations, as to serve our fellow men." PATH IV p., 96 Theosophy the Root of All Religions Currently there is debate as to whether Theosophy has its roots in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc... It is understood that scholars who are deeply familiar with those systems and their development can trace similarities. However HPB claims that all those were derived from the "Sanatana Dharma," the "Perennial Philosophy." which is a record of Life's development and history. As such it claims to be at the root and at the origin of all the great ancient religio-philosophical systems and provides a reason for their development as systems of practice leading to that kind of "initiation" which develops Wisdom in thought and mind as well as simultaneously the application of compassion and harmlessness in motive. "...the Wisdom-Religion was ever one, and being the last word of possible human knowledge, was therefore, carefully preserved. It preceded by long ages the Alexandrian Theosophists [ 1st Cent.] , reached the modern, and will survive every other religion and philosophy." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 7. Thus, Theosophy is not exclusively religion, or philosophy but also includes science -- as the power to investigate and record the workings of NATURE (Life as a whole) in every stage, visible or invisible, and in every department of the world and our Universe. The sweep of the ever-present immortal Life, through cycles of evolution lead at last to a "goal," the "all-Knowingness" of the PERFECTED MAN. The designation Mahatma (Great Soul) is one that includes all such self-developed men of superior knowledge and nature. The SECRET DOCTRINE therefore speaks of those as the intelligent guides, and assistants that Nature employs to recreate and supervise a fresh evolutionary effort, a "new Day," of evolutionary progress for all beings. Encourages Independent Inquiry If this is grasped the minute details and studies of specialists, while respected, as continuing proof of the inclusive nature of Theosophy, is also shown to be but the outer covering, to be but one way to approach to the interior mystery of man's own immortal Mind, and of Nature's infinite capacities to assist that Mind to grow. The process Nature employs is reincarnation.. If this infinite capacity of the human mind to grow and to understand the most simple, as well as the most complex subjects is granted, the more learned will continually encourage those who now are learners to investigate and prove for themselves all avenues, however diverse, of information, tradition and lore. And that is the always growing tip of the self-enlightening Mind. It always widens out to that which is permanent and universal, when given a chance to emerge from ignorance, doubt, skepticism and lethargy. "Its creed is Loyalty to Truth, and its ritual "To honor every Truth by use." K E Y "The true Theosophist is a philanthropist -- "not for himself, but for the world he lives." This and philosophy, the right comprehension of life and its mysteries will give the "missing basis" and show the right path to purse." Mahatma K. H. Universal Science, Religion and Philosophy In regard to the prevalence and diffusion of theosophy as a science and a philosophical religion is expressed as:-- "Proofs of its diffusion, authentic records of its history, a complete chain of documents, showing its character and presence in every land, together with the teaching of all its great Adepts exists to this day in the secret crypts of libraries belonging to the Occult Fraternity." S D I xxxiv. "The members of several esoteric schools...claim to have in their possession the sum total of sacred and philosophical works in MSS and type; all the works, in fact, that have ever been written, in whatever language or character since the art of writing began; from the ideographic hieroglyphics down to the alphabet of Cadmus and Devanagri." S D I xxiii "The work [ISIS UNVEILED ] now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat intimate acquaintance with Eastern adepts and study of their science....It is an attempt to aid the student to detect the vital principles which underlie the philosophical systems of old....We believe in no Magic which transcends the scope and capacity of the human mind, nor in "miracles." I U, Vol. I, p. i "Our work, then, is a plea for the recognition of the hermetic philosophy, the anciently universal Wisdom-Religion, as the only possible key to the Absolute in science and theology." I U I p vii "The SECRET DOCTRINE is not a treatise, or a series of vague theories, but contains all that an be given out to the world in this century." S D I xxxviii "The aim of this work [ The SECRET DOCTRINE ] may be thus stated: -- 1. To show that Nature is not "a fortuitous concurrence of atoms," 2. and to assign to man his rightful place in the scheme of the Universe; 3. to rescue from degradation the archaic truths which are the basis of all religions; 4. and to uncover, to some extent, the fundamental unity from which all spring 5. finally to show that the Occult side of Nature has never been approached by the Science of modern civilization." S D I viii The Future "The problem of true Theosophy and its great mission are, first, the working out of clear unequivocal conceptions of ethic ideas and duties, such as shall best and most fully satisfy the right and altruistic feeling in men; and second, the modeling of these conceptions for their adaptation into such forms of daily life, as shall offer a field where they may be applied with most equitableness. Such is the common work placed before all who are willing to act on these principles." From THE GREAT MASTER'S LETTER, [LUCIFER, January, 1888, Vol. I p. 344. U L T Pamphlets, No. 22, p. 13. ] "Theosophy alone can gradually create a mankind as harmonious and as simple-souled as Kosmos itself; but to effect this theosophists have to act as such... [helping] to awaken the spirit in many a man" H P B Articles (U L T) , Vol. I, p. 105 -- THE TIDAL WAVE. [LUCIFER, Nov. 1889.] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 59990 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22629; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:32 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: ULT/"FIRM RESULTS"/interpretations Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear =93speculative=94 Mauri: What is your basis for your speculations? Or have you none? As far as I am concerned, I see to many phenomena that are analogous and repetitive -- so I concluded long ago with our SCIENCE (Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Engineering, etc.. etc.. ) that Nature runs under LAWS. I=92m also pretty convinced that we are free to dispute othe= rs=92 views and renditions of their observations. But then, what stability do we have to fall back on? We have all of us a dualistic mind approach. In mankind, the evolving =93animal intelligence=94 is raising itself to merge with the =93descending= God intelligence.=94 The =93God-like=94 Intelligence sacrifices its universal = vision for the sake of assisting the =93persona animal intelligence=94 of the transitory personal =93man=94 to raise itself. You speculate a lot but I don=92t see any order to those. Have you established any ? Or is my perception at fault.? You may not agree or like the simile, or my question. But that is what I have acquired from a careful study of the Theosophical teachings. Today I have sent out a small article on WHAT IS THEOSOPHY ? It covers pretty well the general definitions. It does not try to straight-jacket anything, but does declare there is a system and a scheme that is ages old and which is in effect a description o= f the laws and their operation in nature. It is not speculative but takes speculation into account. Speculation is the right of the free mind. But does it ever get beyond the cloud of doubt = ? Does it get to the stage where ignorance is separated from actual KNOWLEDGE ? Is there anything to share? If you dispute the fact of laws supporting all life, then there is little remaining to debate. If you wish to discuss your observation of laws in operation as a scientis= t would, then we have a lot to offer for mutual comparison. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: m [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:33 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: ULT/"FIRM RESULTS"/interpretations <<>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D MAURI: Dallas, it's as if somehow by your overall tone and emphasis you make the likes of "FIRM RESULTS AND VERIFICATION" almost sound as if they have, or ought to have, more than a dualistic/interpretive/relative reality. My speculations based on what I've read about Theosophical subjects so far have tended to lead me to think that ""FIRM RESULTS AND VERIFICATIONS" in "Theosophical terms," while having a sense in which they may be seen to have a relative relavance/value, ought to be viewed at the same time in their "larger Theosophical perspective" by taking into account "esoteric aspects" at least in terms of their theoretical/possible relatedness (even though that relatedness generally seems to appear as not being more-specifically conceivable by way of the dualistic terms of regula= r reality). So while there may be value in dualistic verifications of various kinds, surely the more specific "Theosophical verifications" might tend to result, instead, from less dualistic insights (in as much as if transcendence of dualism is a primary objective of applied Theosophy?)? I think we all follow dualistic notions and verifications in our own ways but, in Theosophical terms, seems to me that some of us might tend to take some verifications with a grain of salt (as the tired old saying goes). Surely as Theosophists we might do well to verify on the one hand (in the usual ways) while keeping in mind a "larger perspective" on the other hand, no matter how "inconceivable" that esoteric "larger perspective" may be judged to be? But then if you already knew all that, Dallas, I wonder what you might really trying to tell us with your "foundation knowledge," "firm results," "verification," etc.? Is it that you tend to believe, or DO believe, that certain kinds of study of certain kinds of Theosophical "original text" subjects is more condusive toward realizing esoteric aspects? Is that a Path that seems to work for you? But even if that were your perfect Path, I feel that I would still need to find mine: which for me is intimately connected with an ongoing daily experience that isn't limited by words/concepts such as "Theosophy," or "original texts," or "foundation knowledge," or whatever. "Original-text Theosophy" and this twiddle twaddling over the net for me is more like an interesting "hobby-on-the-side" as compared to my "essential Theosophy" which "takes into account" my "ongoing daily exprience" in "fuller-spectrum= " terms. Not that that's not the case in your case. Speculatively, Mauri --- You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: dalval14@earthlink.net List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=3Dtheos-l To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-theos-l-14759P@list.vnet.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 9838 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22200; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: Concept of Dualities Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Sunday, September 02, 2001 Dear Jerry: Seems to me the 3rd Law of your dualities is difficult for me to understand. Sounds like isolating a NORTH POLE on a magnet with no SOUTH polarity around ? Is that possible ? Whether enochian or not, all dualities to me , arise from a singularity. The ABSOLUTE ALL (out of manifestation or in manifestation) is always unmoved, indescribable, impartite. However if at the end of a Manvantara all that has manifested and created KARMA is resolved into the Pralayic condition and merged back into the ABSOLUTE, then, those dualities (now unified) would, on the cyclic re-emergence into the next karmic Manvantaric period become dualities again -- thus you would have the UNIVERSAL MONAD ( MAHA-ATMA - MAHA-BUDDHI ) as a kind of precursor to the reformation of the contrasting planes of manifestation that would be reestablished under universal KARMA. And all the numberless MONADS (in manifestation) would reappear. Another thought occurs to me. In some cases we (as our present limited physical brain consciousness) are unaware of the existence of a different plane, or state of CONSCIOUSNESS. Apparently a transition point between them may exist -- a "laya point" -- then the duality on this side is synthesized into a singularity (ONE ) on the other plane. Is this possible ? Dallas ================================= -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:03 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: Concept of Dualities <<<<[Mauri]:So while there may be value in dualistic verifications of various kinds, surely the more specific "Theosophical verifications" might tend to result, instead, from less dualistic insights (in as much as if transcendence of dualism is a primary objective of applied Theosophy?)? >>> Mauri (and anyone else who might be interested), let me quote once again a section from my Enochian Physics dealing with dualities so that we all understand how I see them. The book addresses Enochian Magic, but is equally applicable to Theosophy. The important part of this section is my Three Laws of Duality, which should help to see where I am coming from: ************** THE CONCEPT OF DUALITIES In order to understand Enochian physics, it is essential to first understand the doctrine of dualities. A duality implies any two-fold force or two-sided expression. The concept of dualities may seem highly philosophical at first, but it is an important concept to grasp and is crucial in understanding Enochian physics and the practice of Enochian Magic. A duality often seems to be two separate things or forces. Big and little for example, are two sides of a dualistic concept. We usually think that big is not the same thing as little. But actually they only exist in relation to each other. Big is only meaningful if something small is compared to it. For example, a mouse is small when compared to an elephant but is big when compared to a grain of sand. Man is small when compared to the universe of planets and stars but is big when compared to the atomic world of atoms and molecules. The concept of up is meaningless when used by itself. When you think of up you usually think of what is over your head or above you. But to someone on the other side of the world, your up is their down and vice versa. Enochian physics uses the term duality to denote any force or expression that has two sides to it such that either side is meaningless without the other. When you see another person and think in terms of ugly or beautiful, you are mutually comparing that person with other persons. If only one man existed, he would be neither ugly nor beautiful. The dualistic idea of beauty and ugliness would disappear. Similarly, a child has no concept of good or bad. He must learn about that duality as he grows up. It is impossible to become aware of one side of a duality without the other side. The very nature of dualities is that we become aware of both sides simultaneously and that we can only eliminate one side at the expense of the other. We can only hold onto one side by clinging to the other. This concept is extremely important to understand. It is the capstone of the Enochian magician's code of ethics and morality. A magician's morality is not society's morality. They look at life differently. The three main laws of any duality are as follows: Duality Law 1. When one side of a duality is created, the other side comes into existence simultaneously. Duality Law 2. When one side of a duality is eliminated, the other side ceases to exist simultaneously. Duality Law 3. Everything that exists is one side of a duality, even existence itself. The concept of dualities and the philosophical implications of dualities have been known for many centuries. Gotoma Buddha taught that existence and nonexistence were two sides of a duality. The psychological thrust of his Buddhism is to tread a "middle path." This implies that one should live in between the extreme points of dualities. "Do nothing to excess" and "moderation in all things" are the logic fallout of this philosophy. According to Enochian physics, duality leaves its stamp on all things in the universe. From subatomic structures to the cosmos itself, all things express a dual nature below the first Aethyr, LIL. We shall see later that quantum physics has encountered this phenomenon in atomic particles and that relativity physics has encountered it in the universe around us. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 71471 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23169; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Michael: As far as I know the Neuro-cognitive relates to our physical body and is quite limited by it. It is only a part of the process whereby the INNER MAN cognizes change, data, and seeks to make a relation to a system out of disparate information. All organization starts with stability of some kind, mathematical, physical, chemical, biological, but when one comes to the mind everything seems to become confused. What then would theosophy offer? 1. there is a THINKER 2. there is a subject or an object that can be selected to be thought about. 3. There is the process of comparison in search of an organized system from which receives or perceives data and change. 4. there is an attempt to organize this input, in search of some law that already exists and either originates it or is impacted by it. This is an area for research. 5. Finally comes the query : All this registering of data, and the collection of evidence evidently has some use. What is the use to be considered as? Is it useful, constructive, impersonal, hostile, and what is its relation to my living and the living of others? Is there a repository or a fund in existence to which we can relate our present experiences? You use the word "engram" which apparently is a concept or a force that is antagonistic -- but, antagonistic to what or to whom? I have so far only encountered its use with friends who are connected in some way with the philosophy of Scientology. You employ the general concept of PAIN and SUFFERING, DEATH, etc... Theosophically these relate more to emotional modes rather than to mental and philosophical ones. In Theosophy the Mind is considered to be the superior of the two. Mind rules emotion through first, an understanding of the nature of the problem, and then, second, makes for itself a determination and employs the power of the SELF-WILL. But this might be disputed. Man is considered at all times to be free and independent. Hence his choices from moment to moment, while "influenced," are yet still his own and free. The power of the individual mind is not to be limited by either preconception or prejudice, but ought to be carefully examined under the condition of careful introspection analogous to meditation. There rises the question: Who or what EXAMINES the (our) Mind? Who (or what) directs it? Who makes the selection of the subjects for examination and consideration? And, what is their ultimate objective? I do not have a full grasp of their (Scientology) philosophy, so that it can be compared by me, with the philosophy of the wholeness of the Universe and man's relation to it, as a reincarnating being who is learning how to accommodate his transitory mortality to an end objective that is universal in scope, and which will ultimately make him a true immortal with a vision scope and a wisdom that encompasses the Universe we live in. Theosophy considers that the sole method available for the realization or the attainment of such a state is alone through the practice of benevolence and compassion -- which is epitomized as UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD.. It avers that the ultimate powers of the Universe and of Nature can only be entrusted to those who are totally harmless to others, to themselves and are in effect, cosmocratores, and "builders" and supporters of Nature' purposes. In other words unselfishness and service to others are the sole avenues whereby personal selfishness and the greed for personal power can be eliminated. It helps of course, enormously, if one starts out with the concept that WE (the REAL MAN) are truly IMMORTAL, and that the SPIRIT/SOUL within, is immortal. But this is a difficult concept for the brain-mind of our physical embodiment to grasp and then to rely on. To be of help I trust you are familiar with the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (BY HPB) it is available through BLAVATSKY.NET on line, and is a good basic treatise to be familiar with. It is the view of Theosophy that the Universe and Nature represent the life-supportive powers and forces that enable all humans, MAN, to exist physically, emotionally, mentally and SPIRITUALLY.. It considers these to be universal and immutable as well as indestructible. The process of reincarnation it avers, is that by which these increments of spiritual growth and universality may be garnered. For there to be a useful and on going relationship there has to be a modicum of the same immortality in "man" ( Mind ?) as there is already existent in the Universe. [ The Universe embraces all.] Philosophically, the body as a physiological limitation, is more of a hindrance than a help. Finally there is no price to be put on wisdom and knowledge, If it is true, it is already free to all who seek it. It is present in the least situation we are in. It has supported our life so far, and few of us know much about physiology so as to trace the enormous complexity of the simplest human form. If ever there was a Universe in a nut-shell, it is in the physiological form of any human. It also draws attention to the wonderful complexity needed and the individual intelligence of the least of our cells to realize how harmonious the great disparity among them is galvanized into a harmony that permits our intelligence as an emotional being and a Mind being to coexist. But do let me know what you think of this approach. Best wishes, Dallas ====================== -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:53 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Dallas and others, One reason I had suggested incorporating Neuro-cognitive systems into the matrix, is to review the engram throughout the time track (recorded periods of pain and unconsciousness (i.e. past death, births, prenatal events, severe trauma etc) including their processing. Some beleive that they should be left alone or left to the masters, while others place considerable emphasis in processing them to restore self determinism and personal freedom. while working in the lower worlds. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > > Dear Friends: > > Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the > separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on the > skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are > reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) > immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few > weeks ) and separated into two categories. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:52:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:52:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 71641 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23814; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Michael: "Sat-nam" (as I understand it) is the concept of employing a substitute name (mantram) for "God" or the deific principle as a purificatory rite -- in other words "pure speech" But pure speech starts (says theosophy) with pure intentions, pure thoughts and the control of our personal emotional self. "Sat" is a word implying Universal spiritual purity. "Nam" is a word meaning "name." In other words to employ it we would have to KNOW THE UNIVERSE and have the knowledge and power to fully cooperate with it. In the VOICE OF THE SILENCE H.P.Blavatsky repeats the ancient precept: "Help Nature, and work on with her, and she will regard thee as one of her creators, and make obeisance. Then will she show thee the means and the way...." We will never know the true name of GREAT NATURE until we merge ideally into and with her and have no shred of personal selfishness left. "The Great White Brotherhood" -- look at the description given in ISIS UNVEILED Vol. II pp 98-103 ; and in The SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I, pp 207-210. As to work see the Numbered paras in SECRET DOCTRINE I pp 272-3 and onward. Shamballah is the name of a place (given here and there in our literature) that will forever be secret to us until such time as we embody the ideals that it represents -- or such is my belief. In the meantime we all of us have work to do to serve those who ask. We need not worry about our "progress" as that is taken care of by great nature which is an honest debtor. Best wishes, Dallas =================== -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 6:04 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth Yes, I realized that I sent the wrong message about the dates after I sent it. What you say about Kabir etc is what I meant. Very interesing points raised abou the gital etc. Some of these paths indicate also, that there several worlds called the spiritual worlds that start at teh level of what they call Sat Nam ( beyond the worlds of trikuti and sunni) and go from there. There is also a view whereby the Great White Brotherhood is focused on the worlds of matter energy space and time and it's evolution into love and light and excellence & that there are other members of the hierarchy that there are other members of the hierarchy, that deal with there spiritual worlds which are accessed through the shabda or sound current and in bringing sould their when they are ready to do so, etc. Sar Bachan ( shiv dayal) and path of the masters ( julian johnson) are two excelent books if anyone is interested. At some levels they are beleive to work together. Som, say that one place of cooperation is in Shamballa ! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:19 PM Subject: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > Re: Systems and the search for Truth > > > Dear Friend: > > Are we not then forced back on our own capacity to think these > ideas through? > > QUESTION : What basis for thinking and reasoning ought we to > apply? Or are there no available standards ? > > What shall we "stay focused" on ? > > As to words, sound, rhythms, voice, vibrations: > > I may be in error in that which I will say, (and please correct > me) > > Let me observe that both Kabir, the great poet, and Guru Nanak > have lived in the past millennium and not for "thousands of > years." The teachings and sentiments they used have been > around -- agreeably -- for thousands of years and they may have > been two of the latest foci for them.. Excuse me for saying > this, but it is only for the sake of accuracy, as the > Encyclopedias show the age of their life and teachings.. > > As to "Shabda-Yoga" as I understand it, this relates to the use > of words and the vibrations that serve to convey great and > powerful ideas. > > Mantras and the sacred verses of the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahma > Sutras, etc... and the Aranyakas are included among these. But > the SCIENCE of Mantra Yoga is not one that is disclosed until a > most advanced stage of initiation. > > All great Teachers and Poets are "Shabda-Yogis." When > Buddhi-Manas is manifest, then the power of the words used also > manifests. And it is the innate power of the right use of words > that makes them valuable and induces meditation and thought > about their meaning. > > In the S D I 362 the "atoms" are called "sound" in occultism. > Monads are also called "life-atoms." > > S D I 554-5 gives us a survey of the power of sound and words. > [Also S D I 93-5, 534-7, 564-5.] > > In its rhythms it is related to the senses and elements S D I > 145-6, 307, 464, 514-17, 523fn, > S D II 107 613, 622, 627-8, > > In Sanskrit speech and sound are called VACH. Shabda is a > compound, usually, of several sounds. It calls the Universe out > of Chaos : S D I 137. > > The hidden power of mantras is evoked : S D I 354, 137, > 431-2, it is "occult knowledge," and "Mulaprakriti" (root > matter or BUDDHI the vehicle of ATMA) S D I 430, and, the > "Universal Soul" [Mahat] S D I 352-3 > > The BHAGAVAD GITA is an example of a "Shabda-Yogic" treatise > which was "sung" by the Avatara Krishna to his devotee Arjuna > (and we are all Arjunas, his pupils), at the beginning of this > age named the Kali-Yuga (the age of spiritual darkness and of > iron). This BHAGAVAD GITA is designed to reverberate till the > end of that cycle 432,000 years hence. > > When the Great Buddha taught, the verses of the DHAMMAPADA (which > all the Bhikkus at the first convention held a year after His > death remembered) formed the "Shabda-upadhi" (or vehicle of the > words) of what he taught. The "Sermon on the Mount" forms the > mantramic exposition of what Jesus taught. But whoever may have > taught, it still remains the duty of the devotees, followers and > pupils of these wise Men to learn, think them out and adopt those > which (as Krishna says at the end) [p. 131] "This have I made > known unto thee this knowledge which is a mystery more secret > than secrecy itself; ponder it fully in thy mind, act as seemeth > best unto thee." > > I hope this will be of help > > Best wishes, > > > Dallas > > =============================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: M--- B----- > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:37 AM > To: study@blavatsky.net > Subject: Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth > > > Sometimes these burlons can possibly make someone so attached to > their > preconceived notions about religious truth that the fail to > understand the > broader view. For example, Kabir, Nanak and subsequent Eastern > teachers in > the shabda yoga tradition are hardly "new age" and in fact have > around for > thousands of years. The studies of neuro-cognition are adding > much to an > understanding of religion, philosophy. Even Copernicus was > considered a > new-age thinker once ! > > Anyway to stay focused is also a virtue ! > > CUT > > > > > --- > Current topic is at > http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm > You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net > --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Sun Sep 02 20:01:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 31428 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f83318L11384 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:01:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their vision. I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and plate tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified front. There is slow change at Adyar. David Blankenship From micforster@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 23:33:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: micforster@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 20164 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13404.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.62) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20010903062656.86616.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.34.225.148] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Sep 2001 23:26:56 PDT Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mic Forster Dear David: > The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort >out the age of man and plate tectonics. > Do you know if they reached any conclusions? Regards, Mic __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 05:32:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 50832 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0021.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.21]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f83CWPT15986; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> From: Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear David: I am as puzzled as you are by Tillett's definitions of a "Received Truth" -- in effect all education is the impartation of something which the teacher accepts as a truth, and then passes it on to the students. What we need is some sure "touchstone" that will tell us whether it is a TRUTH or not. I think as far as we individuals are concerned we are constantly discovering "truths." And we are continuously rechecking them for continuing validity. But I do not agree that THEOSOPHY is also "developing. The reason I say that is because the world and our Universe quite evidently rely on LAWS that are inherent in all -- things that are reliable, and have been proved endlessly by those who investigate.. Nature is found to contain ALL and support the LIFE FORCE that keeps all things alive and well. So what Science has been doing is merely uncovering those laws which are not superficially evident. It is re-discovery. Nature is a vast cooperative and handles the disparity of individualism by adjusting the environment. We may call this process Karma and say that is also a law that tends to balance and harmonize. It is both individual and can cover the development of the whole galaxy. If he means a REVELATION, then by a careful study of theosophy, as of all other major religious and philosophical systems it is possible to demonstrate that both the metaphysics and the ethics of these develop on parallel if not identical lines. It is a good idea to find out what H P B had to say about Theosophy and its main teachings and objects. Why not use the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ? Its available "on-line" at BLAVATSKY NET. I have found it most helpful. There is so much to inquire into and to learn. Best wishes, Dallas. ============================ -----Original Message----- From: David Blankenship [mailto:david-blankenship@mediaone.net] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:01 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their vision. I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and plate tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified front. There is slow change at Adyar. David Blankenship From johnb@quickinfo.net Mon Sep 03 08:49:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 15:49:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 48943 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id R9440KF6; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:48:39 -0600 Message-ID: <027601c13491$0cb734c0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:56:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" David wrote, "I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth." Sure, HPB and Leadbeater might have been wrong. I still think they were right. All the science isn't in yet. I saw some TV shows recently that seem to confirm some of Leadbeater's statements. One of them dealt with the study of mitochondrial DNA. Some of their conclusions were 1) The total human gene pool consisted of only about 1000 individuals at a date approximately 75-80,000 BC. "We almost went extinct" (The show's statement, not mine) This corresponds very well with Leadbeater's Atlantean "catastrophe of 75,025 BC". 2) Cro-Magnon man was traced to see where he had come from (by mito-chondrial DNA). They concluded that he had come from Africa to central Asia, finally arriving in Europe. This matches the trek Leadbeater gives in "Man: Whence, How and Whither" Note that the Manu leaves behind a group in northern Africa, proceding then to central Asia. He says, "About a million years ago, he (the Manu) chose ... a few people he hoped to shape for his race, and with whom he therefore kept a connection. Four hundred thousand years later, he pikked out some more. ... Of these, numbers would be dropped out on the way, and the selection would be thus narrowed down from time to time. .... The isolation of a tribe ... in the mountains to the north of Ruta was the first decisive step in the building of the race, and this took place about 100,000 bc. "... in 79,797 bc, he called them off to the coast, that they might be shipped off through the Sahara Sea, whence they travelled forwards on foot by the south of Egypt to Arabia. ... the little nation, made up to 9000 men, women and children ...became a nation of several million in about 2000 years... From time to time emigrants left the main body, some settling in the south of Palestine and ... south of Egypt ... Occasionally he himself incarnated, and his descendants formed ... a somewhat improved type." "It was only a few years before the catastrophe of 75,025 bc that ... he selected about 700 of his own descendants ... reached the shores of the Gobi Sea, but bearing in mind the message he had received, he did not remain in the plain, but turned into the hills in the north ..." Description of the catastrophe: "The City (of the Golden Gates) was suddenly destroyed by the rushing in of the sea through huge fissures caused by explosions of gas, but unlike the catastrophe in which Poseidonis sank within 24 hours, these convulsions continued over a period of two years. ... The Himalayas were heaved up a little higher, the land to the south of India was submerged with its population, Egypt was drowned and only the pyramids were left standing ... land was thrown up, now Siberia ... central Asia rose, and many torrents, caused by the unprecedented rainfall, cut deep ravines through the soft earth. "While these seismic changes were in progress, the Manu's ... people were constantly terrified by the recurring earthquakes, and were almost paralysed by the fear that the sun ... had gone out forever. The weather was unspeakable. Terrible rains fell almost incessantly, masses of steam and clouds of dust enveloped the earth and darkened teh air. Nothing would grow properly, and they were exposed to severe privations ... only the stronger survived; the weaker were killed off. "At the end of five years, they had again become settled ... much virgin soil had been thrown up, and they were able to cultivate the land." This corresponds with modern theories about nuclear winter. It also corresponds with another item on one of the TV shows. A herd of fossilized rhinos was discovered in Nebraska, in a layer of volcanic ash. It was determined that they had died about 70-80,000 bc, and the cause of death was asphyxiation. I also notice a parallel between this account and the Jewish scriptures. Abraham as the father of a great people - the Manu as father of a great people. Moses leading his people to the promised land, yet wandering in the wilderness, and finally merely looking at the promised land from a high mountain. Also the Israelites' position as a chosen people, and the command not to intermarry with other peoples. HPB, defending the Atlantis claim, said it would be discovered, and that it ran from Greenland on south around the tip of Africa. This is a description of the mid-Atlantic ridge, which does indeed follow this course. It is a tectonic rift, and it is here that the Atlantic Ocean grows a few inches wider every century. From johnb@quickinfo.net Mon Sep 03 10:43:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 17:43:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 72112 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id R9440KG0; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:41:32 -0600 Message-ID: <032c01c134a0$d1db5ab0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> <027601c13491$0cb734c0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:49:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" I wrote earlier, "A herd of fossilized rhinos was discovered in Nebraska, in a layer of volcanic ash. It was determined that they had died about 70-80,000 bc, and the cause of death was asphyxiation." I forgot to mention, there are no volcanoes in Nebraska. The show concluded that the ash had come from a volcano in the Yellowstone area. From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 10:48:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 17:48:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 82730 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0234.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.234]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23266; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:44:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: About the Mother of Light to Ramprakash. (Moscow) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:38:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear Friend: Very true, but the contrast implies that the one who is seeking and is CONSCIOUS has the freedom to compare and decide. The great dual principles reflect the primordial MONAD or SPIRIT (ATMA) and MATTER (BUDDHI -- or accumulated experience since all eternity) The MIND maintains a medial position an act as WITNESS, OBSERVER and it independence comes from the every unknown KARANA the causeless cause of all causes. That's how I see it. Dal ========================== -----Original Message----- From: Gopi Chari [mailto:ekcvv@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:21 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Cc: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: About the Mother of Light to Ramprakash. (Moscow) The real Truth is a place where there are no opposites! LOVE has no hate as its opposite component, LIFE has no deatth as its component, BEAUTY has no ugly as its component. Gopi On Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:04:09 -0400 "Bill Meredith" writes: > > > ---------- > > Ramprakash > > How will the true be known otherwise than as a contrast to what is > not > true > > or what is partially true ? > > RP > ---------- > This dualistic concept gives tremendous value to the 'not true' and > 'partially true' for without them truth cannot be known. > > Is it possible to re-cognize the taste and feel of truth within our > hearts > without using our brains to compare, contrast, and eventually > organ-ize? > > Likewise it appears that some of us may be inclined to 'know' the > truth of > Cassandra through our closed mind instead of meeting her with our > open > heart. > > Bill > From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 12:42:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51114 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0644.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.134]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15487; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:41:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:34:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear Michael: I am familiar with some of Hubbard's writings, or have read them. I found them very "materialistic." In the way they limited themselves (as most Sci-Fi does) to the physical and personal existence. Theosophy goes much further and asks for the cause of the physical. Then we get into the astral, etc... Karma, reincarnation Soul immortality etc ... Pain and trauma either physical or psychic will involve the mind/soul where we are most sensitive and hence most apprehensive of a future yet to come (if ever). I think it is one of the old Sages who said "Beware of anticipating pain yet to come." If we don't know KARMA we also wont be able to know how and when it strikes. But something in us is aware of that and warns. Why? I am confused by the use of the phrase" etheric plane" since I don't find H P B using that as a division of the principal 7 in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY. Was it Leadbeater who invented that? And if so why ? As to how it might impress us when in a plane or state of "unconsciousness" to the brain-mind I have no idea. But if we take one statement made by Theosophy as correct: namely, the one that states the descending Monadic (God-like) Consciousness meets the ascending Animal Intelligence and Instinct in the Human being, we might secure an answer. Man's condition in terms of sensitivity and self-education in regard to universal laws and Karma, might make of him (us) a crucible where the two types of consciousness meet and mingle. One might say that this is the "field of Kurukshetra (B. Gita)" where the pupil meets the Teacher at a battle front and surveys the armies of the contestants -- the personal and the impersonal and Wise. Any time we have suffering, pain, apprehension, etc... we are focusing ourselves in the personal. Is it possibly because we know we chose wrongly? If a detached survey (unemotional) of the cognitions of the nervous system is attempted, I think we are really saying: "What underlies the detectable movements of that nervous system? What causes "cognition?" Who or what in us is such an "observer" capable of being emotionally detached? How are ?emotions" to be classified? What are they for? How can they be made passive and actually removed or debarred from entering such a search? To me the "engrams" appear to be mainly associated with the passional and desire nature (the Kamic). What do you think? Best wishes, Dallas ================ -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." Thanks for your views, Dallas. These are views of which I am familiar and am in agreement with. In view of the Engram; it is not owned by Scientology any more than the Great White Brotherhood is owned by any earthly group. These are axiomatic truths which are available to all. Theosophy is a great system and I am in alignment with it's views on benevolence and love as well as wisdom. Of course true test is to show these characteristics to those who shake our views. Anyway, it seems that the extremely painful periods such as family deaths or even our own past deaths in the physical universe and other forms of extreme trauma and among the very reasons why humans can not express the benevalance and love that they are capable of expressing. Painful emotion is a lower level manifestation of engramatic affects as I understand them. I know of very few systems which go into any detail about this. This is partially because the expreiences are so severe that they recirded during periods of unconsciousness. Some migh call this he "etheric plane" between the causal plane and the the higher self !!! While I am NOT giving a plugto Hbbards organization, there are 3 books of his that I think are of great importance to any sincere seeker. Dianetics, The Science of Survival and Scientology A History of Man. Unfortunately many will not take the time to understand the truths ( and of course the BS too) associated with these very unique books due to emotional attachments relating to dislike the author or his subsequent organization. That would be like not studying calculus because you do not like Newton or Liebnitz, the co- founders of these important axiomatic truths. In the spirit of Theosophy, I suggest that the unemotional study of cognition may start with the nervious system but trancend to the highest levels of approaching the level of the sheaths surrounding the soul. The intracies of the engram are quite profound and may have much to do with our inabilities to understand higher realities ! Perhaps I am going off topic though. Just a thought. have a great holiday, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:12 AM Subject: [bn-study] WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." > > > --- > > Monday, September 03, 2001 > > > Dear Michael: > > As far as I know the Neuro-cognitive relates to our physical body > and is quite limited by it. It is only a part of the process > whereby the INNER MAN cognizes change, data, and seeks to make a > relation to a system out of disparate information. > > All organization starts with stability of some kind, > mathematical, physical, chemical, biological, but when one comes > to the mind everything seems to become confused. What then would > theosophy offer? > > 1. there is a THINKER > > 2. there is a subject or an object that can be selected to be > thought about. > > 3. There is the process of comparison in search of an organized > system from which receives or perceives data and change. > > 4. there is an attempt to organize this input, in search of some > law that already exists and either originates it or is impacted > by it. This is an area for research. > > 5. Finally comes the query : All this registering of data, and > the collection of evidence evidently has some use. What is the > use to be considered as? Is it useful, constructive, impersonal, > hostile, and what is its relation to my living and the living of > others? Is there a repository or a fund in existence to which we > can relate our present experiences? > > You use the word "engram" which apparently is a concept or a > force that is antagonistic -- but, antagonistic to what or to > whom? I have so far only encountered its use with friends who > are connected in some way with the philosophy of Scientology. > > You employ the general concept of PAIN and SUFFERING, DEATH, > etc... Theosophically these relate more to emotional modes > rather than to mental and philosophical ones. > > In Theosophy, as I understand this, these are correctives and not > punitives, nor are they fortuitous. They are the return to us of > forces we employed earlier when we chose selfishly to hurt > others. Karma is created by selfishness and results in suffering > to our personality, for the reason that the elementary lives > which make up our personality and our physical bodies, are > tortured by us, and when they return they bring with them the > quality and force of the torture we originally affixed to them so > as to wound another being. You will find that H P B wrote about > this in her article "TRANSMIGRATION OF LIFE ATOMS" [THEOSOPHIST > Vol. 4, p. 286 ; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 5, p. > 110; UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS, H P B Articles, Vol. 2, > p.249 ] > > In Theosophy the Mind is considered to be the superior of the > two. Mind rules Emotion through, first, an understanding of the > nature of the problem, and then, second, makes for itself a > determination and employs the power of the SELF-WILL. But this > might be disputed. > > Man (as a Living Mind -- in which there is focused the potential > of every force of the Universe) is considered at all times to be > free and independent. Hence > his choices from moment to moment, while "influenced," are yet > still his own, and free. > > The power of the individual mind is not to be limited by either > preconception or prejudice, but ought to be carefully examined > under the condition of careful introspection analogous to > meditation. > > There rises the question: Who or what EXAMINES the (our) Mind? > Who (or what) directs it? Who makes the selection of the > subjects for examination and consideration? And, what is their > ultimate objective? > > I do not have a full grasp of their (Scientology) philosophy, so > that it can be compared by me, with the "philosophy of the > wholeness" of the Universe, and man's relation to it, as a > reincarnating being. Man is considered to be one who is learning > how to accommodate his > transitory mortality to an end objective that is universal in > scope, and which will ultimately make him a true immortal with a > vision scope and a wisdom that encompasses the Universe we live > in. To do this harmlessly, the highest ideals as "altruism" has > to be practised all the time voluntarily so that no shred of > selfish personality will serve as a barrier to this attainment. > > As I understand it one has to practice UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD all > the time if the Wisdom and benevolence of Nature (Universe) is to > be entrusted to him. This may appear an impossible dream if one > has adopted the idea that we as PERSONALITIES are to survive as > long as possible and to defend our local territories. This > concept runs directly opposite to that. > > Theosophy considers (let me repeat) that the sole method > available for the > realization or the attainment of such an elevated state of > knowledge and power is alone attained through the practice of > benevolence and compassion -- which is epitomized > as UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. It avers that the ultimate powers of > the Universe and of Nature can only be entrusted to those who are > totally harmless to others, to themselves and are in effect, > cosmocratores, "builders" and supporters of Nature' purposes. > > In other words unselfishness and service to others are the sole > avenues whereby personal selfishness and the greed for personal > power can be eliminated. It helps of course, enormously, if one > starts out with the concept that WE (the REAL MAN) are truly > IMMORTAL, and that the SPIRIT/SOUL within, is an eternal. But > this > is a difficult concept for the brain-mind of our physical > embodiment to grasp and then to rely on. > > To be of help I trust you are familiar with the KEY TO THEOSOPHY > (BY HPB) it is available through BLAVATSKY.NET on line, and is > a good basic treatise to be familiar with. > > It is the view of Theosophy that the Universe and Nature > represent the life-supportive powers and forces that enable all > humans, MAN included, to exist physically, emotionally, mentally > and > SPIRITUALLY. It considers these principles to be universal and > immutable > as well as indestructible. The process of reincarnation it > avers, is that by which these increments of spiritual growth and > universality may be garnered. > > Consider that the physical body will for all of us eventually > die. The knowledge and powers we may have accumulated will > towards that final moment be dissipated if selfish, and will be > translated into DEVACHAN if spiritual. It is the Devachanic > memories that form the "food" for meditation in that state as > they are built into our permanent INDIVIDUALITY ( the REAL and > ETERNAL EGO). > > For there to be a useful and on going relationship there has to > be a modicum of the same immortality in "man" ( Mind ?) as > there > is already existent in the Universe. [ The Universe embraces > all.] > > Philosophically, the body as a physiological limitation, is more > of a hindrance than a help. But we can refine it to a point > where it becomes a willing and docile assistant to the inner man, > and itself "grows" in intelligent and consciousness in its many > units. > > Finally, there is no price to be put on wisdom and knowledge, If > it is true, it is already free to all who seek it. It is present > in the least situation we are in. It has supported our life so > far, and few of us know much about physiology so as to trace the > enormous complexity of the simplest human form. If ever there > was a Universe in a nut-shell, it is (by analogy) to be seen in > the cooperation of the disparate units and systems of each of our > physiological human or animal forms. > > It also draws attention to the wonderful complexity needed and > the individual intelligence of the least of our cells, to realize > how harmonious the great disparity among them is galvanized into > an inter-active harmony that permits our intelligence as an > emotional being and > a Mind being to coexist with them and to use them pretty much as > we choose. It is possible thorough wrong choices or neglect to > cause disease and premature death to the body cooperative. > > But do let me know what you think of this approach. > > Best wishes, > > Dallas > > ====================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:53 AM > To: study@blavatsky.net > Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > > Dallas and others, > > One reason I had suggested incorporating Neuro-cognitive systems > into the matrix, is to review the engram throughout the time > track > (recorded periods of pain and unconsciousness (i.e. past death, > births, prenatal > events, severe trauma etc) including their processing. Some > believe that > they should be left alone or left to the masters, while others > place > considerable emphasis in processing them to restore self > determinism and > personal freedom. while working in the lower worlds. > > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:18 PM > Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > > > > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > > > > > Dear Friends: > > > > Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the > > separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on > the > > skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are > > reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) > > immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few > > weeks ) and separated into two categories. > > CUT > > > > > > > --- > Current topic is at > http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm > You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net > --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Sep 03 12:59:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 24270 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tisch.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.157) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (nycmny1-ar4-4-43-236-062.elnk.dsl.gtei.net [4.43.236.62]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11466 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 15:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B93E10D.1AD794C1@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 15:59:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky dalval14@earthlink.net wrote: > I am familiar with some of Hubbard's writings, or have read them. > I found them very "materialistic." In the way they limited > themselves (as most Sci-Fi does) to the physical and personal > existence. Aleister Crowley called L. Ron Hubbard the "most evil man he had ever met." Bart Lidofsky From compiler@wisdomworld.org Mon Sep 03 16:23:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 23:23:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5685 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.143) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010903232301.VCBO1331.femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3B941ECD.AC9B378A@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:22:37 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: study@blavatsky.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: "Dianetics"--a Theosophical article about it back in 1950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler Based on some of the conversations going on, this article, the 55th one in the 57-article series entitled "STUDIES IN KARMA", may be somewhat useful: "DIANETICS" http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/StudiesInKarma-Series/Dianetics.html This is the index page to all 57 articles in the series: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/StudiesInKarma-Series/index.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Mon Sep 03 19:32:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 4 Sep 2001 02:32:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19116 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60969DAF49 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:30:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f842UPa17330 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001101c134e9$907e38a0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:30:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" I deleted the newsletter to make room for my incoming mail, but I did make a copy of subscribing and unscribing. The email address is questmag@theosmail.net. Subscribing will get you the current issue and subsequent issues. It is put out by scientist who are theosophists. The scientist who talk about Atlantis said it was fanciful on HPB part and that because of plate tectonics such a continent couldn't exist. The scientist who talk about the age of man put it about six million years with all the earlier ancestors. There currently two theories about the origin birthplace. One is the popular out of Africa theory. And the other is that Homo Sapiens originated simultaneously in different places around the globe about 200,000 years ago from earlier men out of Africa. I hope I did justice to the talk on man but it is from memory and it is a poor substitute for the full articles. I suggest you subscribe and read for yourself what they had to say. The first part is about a conference the had and the articles follow. David Blankenship From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Tue Sep 04 17:15:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 00:15:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 74941 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD8CDAFC2 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:05:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f8505gw12340 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c1359e$83ba15c0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:05:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" Evolution, relativity and plate tectonics all faced tremendous forces against them because they destroyed the comfortable view of the world. All three have since been proven true so that their proponents went from fringe science, except in Darwin's case, to mainstream and their detractors have gone to fringe science like the creationists. I read a time-life book decades ago that described a scientist that devoted his entire like to document the incidences where rock stratas lined up on one side of the Atlantic to those on the other side. He devoted 50 years to this work in the first half of the century and even produced maps of what he thought it look like. He died without it ever being excepted. There was a conference in the mid-fifties in which it was discovered to the consensus of the geologists there. Neither he nor Einstein ever received the noble prize for relativity or plate tectonics. I can understand why the theosophist scientist at the conference would not want to defend the theory of lost continents. I learned as a child to seek the opinions of those who disagree with me in a effort to get to the truth. There are incidences where the truth is something neither thought of but we discovered it together. I believe in the reconciliation of religion, philosophy and science but too often in the newsletters digest I receive science is relegated to the foot of the table and ignored. Science has made blunders but it is self-correcting. Theosophy is fragmented to various groups and even within the groups there are conflicting opinions. This was a group that is trying to find the truth about nature and god. I have a degree in chemistry so I am more sympathetic to their dilemma. Dr. Tillett wish to provoke responses to his thought-provoking article in theos-World. I have tried to answer him. David Blankenship From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Sep 04 17:24:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 00:24:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 17520 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 00:15:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 00:15:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 00:15:49 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0171.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.171]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12366; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:15:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Scientific Hypotheses and Interpretations Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:09:27 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <001101c134e9$907e38a0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> From: dalval14@earthlink.net Tuesday, September 04, 2001 Dear Friend: Thanks for the address will look into and ask for more information. The 2nd Vol. of the S D discusses prehistory and the archaic ages. Also on pp. 68-70 it gives a view in terms of our years of the scope of a number of cycles. As to Atlantis, the prevalence of evidence as can be secured from a number of web-sites, and the evidence adduced by Donnelley ought to be considered. I do know that theories and hypotheses have been erected against the existence of Atlantis and especially of Poseidonis, the last Island remnant to sink But then, our Science has been altogether too restricted in their views and I think we suffer from that. Have you had an opportunity to review what H P B has to say about Atlantis? I mean in The SECRET DOCTRINE ? Best wishes, Dallas ========================== -----Original Message----- From: David Blankenship [mailto:david-blankenship@mediaone.net] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:30 PM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? I deleted the newsletter to make room for my incoming mail, but I did make a copy of subscribing and unscribing. The email address is questmag@theosmail.net. Subscribing will get you the current issue and subsequent issues. It is put out by scientist who are theosophists. The scientist who talk about Atlantis said it was fanciful on HPB part and that because of plate tectonics such a continent couldn't exist. The scientist who talk about the age of man put it about six million years with all the earlier ancestors. There currently two theories about the origin birthplace. One is the popular out of Africa theory. And the other is that Homo Sapiens originated simultaneously in different places around the globe about 200,000 years ago from earlier men out of Africa. I hope I did justice to the talk on man but it is from memory and it is a poor substitute for the full articles. I suggest you subscribe and read for yourself what they had to say. The first part is about a conference the had and the articles follow. David Blankenship Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From DNisk98114@aol.com Wed Sep 05 07:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 14:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 46137 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m09.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.164) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.14.1a11cec3 (26120) for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14.1a11cec3.28c78bf9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:57 EDT Subject: Re: To Larry from Moscow To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com In a post by Leon Maurer , he states that; Especially, such a word as Love, in the theosophical sense, must never be equated with sexual love, or even the love between student and teacher, parent and child, or love of family, clan, group, country, etc. -- and certainly, cannot be associated with love of any material things. 7777777777777777 Radiance ! O Great Light Divine ! The Light shines in all , but in all doth not shine forth equally. ------------------------------------- Invocations such as the above, use words that pop up frequently in many Ancient religions which seems to underscore LM's posted remarks on love. They might have said: Love! O Great Love Divine ! Love is in all , but in all Love shows not equally. ----------------------------------- Certainly substitutions have been made but the word "Radiance" seems to suggest one thing and "Love" another. What we seem to need is a synthesis of the two and in this world , as Leon says , there are far too many terrestrial "draggings" of the word love and the word "light" can be dragged to death also ,as we might be finding out these days with its constant over usage.(in this poster's opinion) The old hack about something said often enough "becomes" true refers to the "LATENT POTENTIALITY" that is already there , as Theosophy ,in the form of H. P. B. points out.(The underlying basis of ALL religions ie Universal Brotherhood) We adore "LATENT POTENTIALITY" ! Others may admire the action of "some thing" "becoming true". Experience will probably show , perhaps, that nothing was real-y needed to "come true" but that had always been true throughout Eternity. It becomes "true" to us for our own information and edification . Just a thought after breakfast. From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Sep 05 16:22:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 5 Sep 2001 23:22:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 50720 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0831.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.191.66]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA10642; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:22:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Tselem - the astral body also TZOOL-MAH Gol. 348 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Wednesday, September 05, 2001 Dear Reed Regardless of TZELEM (see TZOOL-MAH (just below it on The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, p. 348 you have the 7-fold division. But the ASTRAL BODY precedes the physical. [ KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) pp. 91-2, 135-6, 175-6.] It provides the lattice-work of force centers on which the MOLECULES of the physical accrete (see H P B PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION, H.P.Blavatsky Articles II pp 7...) The atoms are apparently on the astral side whereas the molecules are on the physical. [ "vital and prototypal body...it is born before and dies or fades out with the disappearance of the last atom of the body." "Linga-Sarira" T. Glos p. 189-90; Raja-Yoga, pp 34-5; S D I 157, S D II 149 ] H P B also explains the "Astral Soul" (H P B Art II, pp 18-20) In PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION, H P B Art II 13-14, 17, 18-25, ) the Lower brain mind is explained in several places and contrasted with the Higher Manas and the Universal Mind. Hope this is of help Dal ====== -----Original Message----- From: Reed Carson [mailto:carson@blavatsky.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:56 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Tselem - the astral body in ancient Hebrew esoteric philosophy Folks, Let me just start at the basics on this. In the Western culture there are two predominant views. One is that we are made of blind matter and nothing more. This is the view of materialism. The second view is that somehow embedded or connected with the lump of "clay," is a "soul". The religious view. Of course there are other views. St. Paul of Christianity holds to a human being as a tripart entity. Exactly what that triple is supposed to be, you will not find out properly by reading the English of the Bible. It has been smoothed over! It will be necessary to look at the Greek to ferret it out, and then the result will look much more like the Theosophical view. Other shades of viewpoint will recognize the separation of mind and brain and open a pandora's box of possibilities. Perhaps even a limited few physicists will note the very significant role of consciousness in quantum physics and postulate a larger consciousness of which reflects the universe. This opens up models of reality that have some relationship to Theosophy and I suppose we should later discuss them. In this letter I want to discuss the astral body from the viewpoint of Judaism. This will start the filling in of the matrix and show that there were ancient views that recognized more complexity to man than the above views concede. First the Theosophical Glossary by HPB: Tselem: (Heb.) An image, a shadow. the shadow of the physical body of a man, also the astral body - Linga Sharira. (See "Tzool-ma".) This shows us a clear and direct definition of Tselem as the astral body from the viewpoint of Theosophy.. If we follow her and check out the entry for Tzoolma it is very informative. It says: (Kab.). Lit., "shadow". It is stated in the Zohar (I., 218 a. I. fol. 117 a, col 466.), that during the last seven nights of a man's life, the Neshamah, his spirit, leaves him and the shadow, tzool-mah, acts no longer, his body casting no shadow; and when the tzool-mah disappears entirely, then Ruach and Nephesh - the soul and life - go with it. It has been often urged that in Kabbalistic philosophy there were but three, and with the Body, Guff, four "principles". It can be easily shown there are seven, and several subdivisions more, for there are the "upper" and the "lower" Neshamah (the dual Manas); Ruach, Spirit or Buddhi; Nephesh (Kama) which "has no light from her own substance", but is associated with the Guff, Body; Tzelem, "Phantom of the Image"; and D''yooknah, Shadow of the Phantom Image, or Mayavi Rupa. Then come the Zurath, Prototypes, and Tab-nooth, Form; and finally, Tzurah, "the hightest Principle (Atman) which remains above", etc. etc. (See Myer's Qabbalah, pp. 400 et. seq.) The Pasadena Glossary says: Tselem (Hebrew) A form, image, likeness; a shadowy image, a shadow. Hence also the astral "shadow" of the human physical body -- the model-body or linga-sarira. It corresponds to the Sanskrit chhayas: in the tselem of 'elohim was made 'Adam (Zohar iii, 76, Crem ed.), i.e., in the image of the pitris was fashioned mankind (cf Genesis 1:27); but not only "in the image" but likewise of the substance of the shadow itself humanity was formed; in other words, the pitris projected their astral shadows which became the lower principles of the individuals of the human race. See also TSULMA' And following up: Tsulma' (Chaldean) A shadow, image; used in the Qabbalah in connection with the neshamah and ruah: during the last seven days of man's life, it is said, every night the neshamah goes up from a person and the tsulma' is no more shown; when the tsulma' goes away the ruah goes with it (Zohar i 117a, Crem ed). The Hebrew equivalent is tselem (shade or shadow, hence a likeness or image of a being or thing), corresponding more or less both to the human model-body or linga-sarira, and to the mayavi-rupa or higher image of a human being, sent forth at will. ______ I will be using "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible". A concordance to the Bible lists every work that occurs in the Bible and where. This book I like because it gives a little more information. In particular this book says the word "Tselem" occurs 16 times translated into English as "image", 1 time translated as "form" and one time it is translated as "vain shew" (perhaps because a vain woman was conceived as caring only about her image). By looking up where the word "image" is used, it is possible to tell with Young's concondance, (p. 509) most of the occurrences of the word Tselem mean "image" in a most normal sense. Four occurrences may possibly seem special and they are all in Gensis. They are 1) 1.26: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." 2) 1.27 "So God created man in his own image in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." 3) 5.3 "And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." 4) and 9.6. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." ________ In themselves these candidate passages are not to me strongly suggestive as references to an astral body. But they might have a special meaning to the interpreters of those passages. But what about the point raised by the Pasadena Glossary when in invokes the Theosophical idea "The pitris projected their astral shadows"? Do we have here a phraseology in Hebrew that reflects this rather esoteric assertion of Theosophy? Can anyone explain this Theosophical idea? It seems that to pursue any further the Hebrew meanings of Tselem and confirm these things for ourselves, we will have to explore the Zohar and explore the interpretation generally put upon the term Tselem by the Kabbalist view. Reed --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From ramadoss@infohwy.com Wed Sep 05 19:45:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 02:45:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 18361 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 02:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 02:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 02:42:54 -0000 Received: from senzar.infohwy.com (sa5399-103-10.stic.net [216.198.60.149]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/infohwy) with ESMTP id VAA10491 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:51:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010905213929.024f88f0@mail.infohwy.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.infohwy.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:39:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com At 08:01 PM 9/2/01 -0700, David Blankenship wrote: >I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I >don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that >theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and >Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. >And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their >works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their >vision. I am glad to hear about your feedback. Would it not be interesting to hear the feedback from members who have been say 10, 20, 30 years around the Adyar group? Of course if the feedback (especially +ve ones) is from anyone who is or was a office holder or active in the other officially non-related activities, one may want to take it with a proverbial grain of salt. >I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in >the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true >as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps >HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. Who is the person who provided you with the response? >The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society >groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. I also saw it. I noticed that it seems to be a closed group. Can some one who has seen the past issues comment on how independent are the articles. >The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and >plate >tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified >front. There is slow change at Adyar. I hope it is so and is good news. We will have to re-visit after couple of years to appreciate the extent of change. MKR From ramadoss@infohwy.com Wed Sep 05 19:57:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 02:57:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 56775 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VOLTAIRE.stic.net) (216.198.0.5) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from senzar.infohiwy.net ([216.198.60.149]) by VOLTAIRE.stic.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-70040U18500L11000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:57:12 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010905215158.03803530@mail.infohiwy.net> X-Sender: ramadoss!infohiwy.net@mail.infohiwy.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:53:58 -0500 To: ,theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: magistr virus ************************************* Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com It's back! New Magistr virus at large By Dennis Fisher eWEEK September 4, 2001 2:58 PM PT Virus researchers have discovered a new variant of the destructive Magistr virus that destroys local and network files and can also overwrite data stored on the CMOS and BIOS chips. Known as Magistr.B, the new virus arrives in an e-mail and can carry multiple message attachments. The virus itself is contained in a file called readme.exe, and the user must open the file for the virus to execute. The virus is reported to be spreading quickly in Europe, but has not been seen in the United States yet, anti-virus vendors say. The virus is a variant of the original Magistr.A virus, which has been around since early 2000 and is still one of the most common viruses on the Internet. In addition to destroying files, Magistr.B also overwrites win.com and NETLDR, the operating-system loaders for Windows, and destroys any file with a .ntz extension, which are files used by AV software, according to an alert released by security vendor Vigilinx Inc. The new virus also disables any active copies of Zone Labs Inc.'s ZoneAlarm personal firewall that it finds. The virus spreads via e-mail and generates random subject lines of up to 60 characters. Unlike many other mass-mailing viruses, Magistr.B can pull addresses from the files of several e-mail clients, including Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora, Netscape Messenger and some Web-based mail clients. From gschueler@earthlink.net Thu Sep 06 06:33:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 13:33:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 44198 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-3.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 8176 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20010906133118.8168.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso