From noone@nowhere.com Sat Sep 01 08:31:56 2001 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: message missing To: theos-talk@egroups.com From: "Message Missing" message missing From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 08:31:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 91748 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 15:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 15:31:55 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.168.29e01a (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <168.29e01a.28c25964@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:31:48 EDT Subject: A tip... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subject: RE: To Pedro from Cassandra From: Gopi Chari Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:45:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 16 Hi Pedro, Glad to see you are from Miami. I am from Bradenton (next to Sarasota). I wonder how many more are from Florida! 2222222222222222222222222222 Here's a tip (a more earthy one) from Jacksonville , Fl. When or if you file away any BN study material and you have many files on your machine. When you put the file in your folder re name it _BNstudy.txt or _THEOSWOR.txt (note the _ in the beginning of the name) >From then on it will always be in the FRONT and ON TOP of all the text files. (This works with all other files as well). From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 08:35:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 15:35:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5121 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 15:35:02 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.18.11b092e3 (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18.11b092e3.28c25a22@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:34:58 EDT Subject: A movement? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subj: The joint is jumping... Date: 8/30/01 6:53:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: DNisk98114 To: Abhilashi The Giant Jump, which launches Britain's Science Year, will take place on 7 September at 11 am and go straight into The Guinness Book of Records as "the greatest simultaneous jump in history". Everyone taking part will jump for one minute, and the results will be monitored on seismometers and sensing equipment. Although this is the largest jump that has been attempted, it will not be the first time that people jumping up and down have caused the ground to shake. Alice Walker, a seismologist at the British Geological Survey, recalls: "In November 1995, Londoners contacted Scotland Yard claiming they had experienced an earthquake tremor. Investigations revealed that 20,000 rock fans had been jumping up and down to Oasis in Earl's Court, and tremors were being reported from up to one mile away. It will be interesting to see if hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions of school students can beat Oasis." Science Year, which runs from September 2001 to August 2002, aims to raise awareness of science among young people aged 10 to 19 years. See http://www.scienceyear.com to find out more. If any readers further afield have seismological equipment, let us know if the tremors caused by the British jump travel round the world. From DNisk98114@aol.com Sat Sep 01 09:34:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 1 Sep 2001 16:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 87300 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.161) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2001 16:34:12 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.89.b6d1966 (4405) for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89.b6d1966.28c267fe@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:34:06 EDT Subject: Another outlook.... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Might I suggest this site , as it has a good approach to a linkage of the earthly term amnesia and reincarnation and is a fascinating approach to an ongoing "problem" in humanity's structure. (although the author ,somewhat, disavows any connection to Theosophy , persay , he seems to us to be going in a good direction , in the opinion of this poster)) Amnesia From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:25:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 18144 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12307; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-basic] What is a Theosophist? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:19:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Dear Friends: I think your answer was superb. It covered all bases. If you want more ideas or definitions, then look at these: When the THEOSOPHIST was first published in Oct. 1879 in Bombay ( Vol. I, p. 5) one of the first articles by H P B was WHAT ARE THE THEOSOPHISTS ? It is worth re-reading. [Reprints in H P B Articles -- U L T -- Vol. I p. 48; and, BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) ] What does H P B say? " [Theosophists are] ... "students of natural law, of ancient and modern philosophy, and...exact science." (p. 48)..."psychological sciences..." ( p. 49) ... "examine Spiritualism" ( p. 49) ... "the leading members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in India [ in 1879] are known to be very advanced students of occult phenomena"... (p. 50) ... "one of our many objects is to revive the work of Ammonius Saccas [ see early pages of the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ] and make various nations remember that they are the children "of one another." .... The Society as a body has no creed, as creeds are, but the shells around spiritual knowledge; and Theosophy is in its fruition, SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE ITSELF..." ( p. 50) ... [seekers] "for the final truth as to the ultimate essence of things." (p. 51) ... "the religion of the Society is an algebraical equation in which so long as the sign = of equality is not omitted, each member is allowed to substitute his own...idiosyncrasies ..." ( p. 50) ... "all original thinkers and investigators" ( p. 51) ... "One need but worship the spirit of living nature, the invisible Cause, which is ever yet manifesting itself in its incessant results; the intangible, omnipotent, and omniscient Proteus" (p. 51)... " once that a student abandons the old and trodden highway of routine, and enters upon the solitary path of independent thought--Godward--he is a theosophist; an original thinker, a seeker after the eternal truth with "an inspiration of his own" to solve the universal problems." (p. 52). On p. 54, the 2nd paragraph (same article) is of course a wonderful one. But this can be referred to if one goes to the on-line version available through BLAVATSKY NET. Best wishes, Dallas ============================= -----Original Message----- From: E----- P--------- Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:15 PM To: Subject: What is a Theosophist? Dear Folks: Recently, I was asked my religious affiliation. I answered: "All and none, I am a Theosophist." The person looked at me with a genuine surprise and asked: "What is a Theosophist?" Now came the difficult part, at least for me. I could have quoted about 300 pages of the SD, but then I would have seen her eyes glaze over, and gone would have been my opportunity to spread the word. If I had answered: "I study the ancient wisdom religion," I would have been compelled to state what the ancient wisdom religion was. What was it? If I had answered: "I study the kernel of truth that lies as the foundation of all religions." Well, even I would have been appalled at how pompous I sounded and would have separated myself from me and joined her across the room. What I finally did say, was: "I believe in the fundamental principle of ONE LIFE reflected in all. And that all the religions at the most basic told the story of that ONE LIFE. And she answered: "that's interesting, tell me more?" And so I turn to you guys. What do you think I should have said? Respectfully, Estela Piscope --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnbasic/basicSyllabus.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-basic as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-basic-6660818H@lists.lyris.net From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:25:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 61952 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:25:31 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11557; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) To: "BN-BASIC" , "BN-STUDY" Subject: RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:18:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <89.b6d1966.28c267fe@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Dear Friends: Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on the skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few weeks ) and separated into two categories. The separation consists in dividing the personal and selfish impression-memories from the Individual-altruistic and virtuous memories. The latter are carried into Devachan for extensive review and a building into the permanent character of the IMMORTAL PILGRIM (EGO) The KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) explains this very carefully. The following clearly expresses the path of return to earth-life: ""The place where the line of involution and evolution meet is the incarnation of the descending gods--ourselves--in the highest evolved form. The analogy is seen in any reincarnation. The consciousness leaves the body, which goes to pieces on its own plane. When the real man returns, he has to wait until the lower lives have built up a form for him into which he may enter, this form being built under the impress given by the real man in other lives. A Manvantara is an enlarged and expanded similar process. We came from the Moon, where we had evolved form to a degree. At pralaya all things stopped evolution of form; on re-manifestation, the lower lives or "builders" began to build up as before, and as their impress and previous building admitted. When the form of man had reached the highest previous point reached, the Kumaras, or real men, overshadowed and entered to carry on the evolution further. "They, and no other, are we." Crosbie in F P, p. 98-9 The new physical body being rebuilt from the "matter stuff" (monads of lesser experience) of previous lives, used by the Real man, no longer carry a defined and clear image of previous personalities -- and the physical brain of the infant, being new, "amnesia" is the result. But the EGO, the Real man, remembers. If the matter to be reused in the new incarnation has been purified by right livelihood in the past life, then, if needed, a recollection and remembrance of previous personalities may arise. Mr. Judge speaks of this [see LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME (1946, U L T Edn.) p. 250, 254, 119 -- "the astral man does not re-incarnate except in exceptional cases." Best wishes, Dallas] ======================== -----Original Message----- From: D---N---- Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 9:34 AM To: Subject: Another outlook.... MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Might I suggest this site , as it has a good approach to a linkage of the earthly term amnesia and reincarnation and is a fascinating approach to an ongoing "problem" in humanity's structure. (although the author ,somewhat, disavows any connection to Theosophy , per say , he seems to us to be going in a good direction , in the opinion of this poster)) Amnesia From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 01 17:26:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 63753 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:26:07 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0183.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.183]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15472; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:25:54 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] "Burlons" Elementals, Elementaries ? Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:19:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, September 01, 2001 Re "burlon" Sounds like an Elemental or an Elementary ? Dear Estela: Sounds like a mischievous elemental if not an elementary In the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY Mr. Judge devotes Chapters 16 and 17 (about 15 pages to a review of the astral plane and the elementals. That gives a quick survey. The others articles give more and specific details. Why not check out some of H P B's articles: -- H P B Articles vol. II 127 ELEMENTALS "Lucifer" Vol. 12, p. 537, Aug. 1893 H P B Articles II 164 THOUGHTS ON THE ELEMENTALS "Lucifer" Vol. 6, p 177, May 1890 Modern Panarion p. 146 ELEMENTARIES (and the next article) H P B Articles II p. 38, 194 DIALOGUES BETWEEN THE TWO EDITORS "Lucifer" W Q Judge Articles Vol. I CONVERSATIONS WITH H P B ON OCCULTISM [ see pp. 383, 390, 394, 400, 405, 413, 423, 431, 435, ] "Path" It looks like a lot of reading, but the subject is quite vast. Best wishes, Dallas ======================== -----Original Message----- From: e---- p------ Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:00 PM To: Subject: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth -- elementals / elementaries Hi Folks, In Spanish there is a term "burlon" which is the name of an entity or person on the physical or astral plane. This burlon will trick a person, through sweet words and high praises into believing things, that in fact are silly and allows the burlon to laugh at the victim's delusions. The problem is that in this field of spiritual pursuit, we are open to an array of "burlones" who exist in reality. They do create endless variations of "new age" deceptions, of which the bookstores are filled with the latest. In a sense the problem is that the "burlones" prey upon the better virtues of earnest seekers. What we are wanting to do on this list is to point the true path. This true path is the result of ages and upon ages of occult masters studying this subject, it is not a fad, it is not something new, it is the ancient wisdom. It is the task of the Theosophist to point out the illusions and help others not to go down paths that only entrap them into a world of delusion, and religiosity. Respectfully, Estela cut From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 13:18:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 20:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 5549 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 20:18:47 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0582.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.72]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20616; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:16:36 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: WHAT IS THEOSOPHY ? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:10:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Sunday, September 02, 2001 Dear Friends: As the subject "What is theosophy" arose in a discussion I thought I would offer some ideas and quotations which might be of help ============== QUOTES ======================= THEOSOPHY -- What Is It ? "Theosophy is Divine Knowledge, or Science, "Divine Wisdom" (Theo-Sophia) -- the term is many thousand years old." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 1. "Theosophy is synonymous with everlasting Truth." KEY TO THEOSOPHY, p. 302. "We have no two beliefs or hypotheses on the same subject." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 72. "Theosophy is the substratum and basis of all the world-religions and philosophies taught and practised by a few elect ever since man became a thinking being." The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY p. 328. "The "Wisdom Religion" is the inheritance of all the nations, the world over." S D I xviii "Theosophy [is]...the one bond of unity which is so universal and all-embracing that no man, as no speck -- from gods and mortals down to animals, the blade of grass and atom -- can be outside of its light. Therefore any organization or body of that name [Theosophical] must necessarily be a Universal Brotherhood." H P B --- IS THEOSOPHY A RELIGION ? H P B Articles, (U L T), Vol. I, p 59, [ LUCIFER Nov. 1888.] Theosophy is Not New This suggests that THEOSOPHY is not a new fangled system of collated ideas drawn from many sources -- in fact if it were even that, then the marvel is of HPB's mind and capacity in drawing such a vast diversity together and showing how the many pieces hang together to form a seamless whole in the world of ideas and concepts. In our experience and wide reading, there is no one who has written such a comprehensive view of our world, universe and the important part that Mankind plays in that. Who was H P Blavatsky? HPB does not claim "authority." She claims to be a "messenger." Specifically a messenger from the Great and Ancient Lodge of ADEPTS. In both ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE she disclaims any personal authority and gives the credit for the records she transmits to the Real Authors, the Mahatmas. [ see Certificate of authorship, by H P B and the two Mahatmas, PATH, Vol. VIII, p. 1 ] Since she was well aware that the Theosophical theories and hypotheses would be received with various degrees of incredulity from the academies, she was careful to make it clear that the information was in reality taken from the HISTORY that the Adepts and their disciples (chelas) had recorded down the ages. All that she requested was "equal time" and open consideration of what Theosophy had to offer. ":When, years ago, we first traveled over the East, exploring the penetralia of its deserted sanctuaries, two saddening and ever-recurring questions oppressed our thoughts: Where, who what is GOD ? Who ever saw the IMMORTAL SPIRIT of man, so as to be able to assure himself of man's immorality? It was while most anxious to solve those perplexing problems that we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly designate them as the sages of the Orient. To their instructions we lent a ready ear. They showed us that by combining science with religion, the existence of God and immortality of man's spirit may be demonstrated like a problem of Euclid. For the first time we receive the assurance that the Oriental philosophy has room for no other faith than an absolute and immovable faith in the omnipotence of man's own immortal self. We were taught that this omnipotence comes from the kinship of man's spirit with the Universal Soul--God ! The latter, they said, can never be demonstrated but by the former. Man-spirit proves God-spirit, as the one drop of water proves a source from which it must have come...all the rest may be inferred...Blind faith would no longer be necessary, he would have supplanted it by KNOWLEDGE....prove the soul of man by its wondrous powers--you have proved God !" I U I p. vi "The essence of Theosophy is the perfect harmonizing of the divine with the human in man." H P B -- FIVE MESSAGES TO AMERICAN THEOSOPHISTS , p. 6. What does Theosophy teach? The immortality of man's Spirit/Soul and the "God-spirit" being present in every "life-atom" of our LIVING UNIVERSE are fundamental concepts. Everything in Nature trends in its life-experience towards a higher degree of knowledge, wisdom, perfection. Each life-cycle (incarnation) is like a separate day at school and all are drawn together by the uniting thread of the immortal, and eternal spiritual Self which is at their core. In fact she shows how Theosophy traces the evolution of the "consciousness and intelligence" of the SPIRITUAL SOUL or Monad, through many forms -- from the atom to the human condition of independent free-will. This sweep and concept is one that can be traced in every one of the great religions and philosophies of the world. It is the record of their existence and of our participation, again and again, in those processes. What had H P B to say? In one place it is reported:-- "Her main teachings can be reduced to the following propositions: That Morals have a basis in Law and in fact. That Moral law is Natural Law. That Evolution makes for Righteousness. That the "fundamental identity of all souls with the Oversoul" renders moral contagion possible through the subtle psychic medium. That the Spiritual Identity of all Being renders Universal brotherhood the only possible path for the truth- seeking man." H P B Articles (U L T ) Vol. I p. 115. From SHE BEING DEAD YET SPEAKETH -- PATH, July 1892 ; Vol 7, p. 121 ] "True Theosophy is everything that aids or elevates mankind; and our chief object is not so much to gratify individual aspirations, as to serve our fellow men." PATH IV p., 96 Theosophy the Root of All Religions Currently there is debate as to whether Theosophy has its roots in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc... It is understood that scholars who are deeply familiar with those systems and their development can trace similarities. However HPB claims that all those were derived from the "Sanatana Dharma," the "Perennial Philosophy." which is a record of Life's development and history. As such it claims to be at the root and at the origin of all the great ancient religio-philosophical systems and provides a reason for their development as systems of practice leading to that kind of "initiation" which develops Wisdom in thought and mind as well as simultaneously the application of compassion and harmlessness in motive. "...the Wisdom-Religion was ever one, and being the last word of possible human knowledge, was therefore, carefully preserved. It preceded by long ages the Alexandrian Theosophists [ 1st Cent.] , reached the modern, and will survive every other religion and philosophy." KEY TO THEOSOPHY , p. 7. Thus, Theosophy is not exclusively religion, or philosophy but also includes science -- as the power to investigate and record the workings of NATURE (Life as a whole) in every stage, visible or invisible, and in every department of the world and our Universe. The sweep of the ever-present immortal Life, through cycles of evolution lead at last to a "goal," the "all-Knowingness" of the PERFECTED MAN. The designation Mahatma (Great Soul) is one that includes all such self-developed men of superior knowledge and nature. The SECRET DOCTRINE therefore speaks of those as the intelligent guides, and assistants that Nature employs to recreate and supervise a fresh evolutionary effort, a "new Day," of evolutionary progress for all beings. Encourages Independent Inquiry If this is grasped the minute details and studies of specialists, while respected, as continuing proof of the inclusive nature of Theosophy, is also shown to be but the outer covering, to be but one way to approach to the interior mystery of man's own immortal Mind, and of Nature's infinite capacities to assist that Mind to grow. The process Nature employs is reincarnation.. If this infinite capacity of the human mind to grow and to understand the most simple, as well as the most complex subjects is granted, the more learned will continually encourage those who now are learners to investigate and prove for themselves all avenues, however diverse, of information, tradition and lore. And that is the always growing tip of the self-enlightening Mind. It always widens out to that which is permanent and universal, when given a chance to emerge from ignorance, doubt, skepticism and lethargy. "Its creed is Loyalty to Truth, and its ritual "To honor every Truth by use." K E Y "The true Theosophist is a philanthropist -- "not for himself, but for the world he lives." This and philosophy, the right comprehension of life and its mysteries will give the "missing basis" and show the right path to purse." Mahatma K. H. Universal Science, Religion and Philosophy In regard to the prevalence and diffusion of theosophy as a science and a philosophical religion is expressed as:-- "Proofs of its diffusion, authentic records of its history, a complete chain of documents, showing its character and presence in every land, together with the teaching of all its great Adepts exists to this day in the secret crypts of libraries belonging to the Occult Fraternity." S D I xxxiv. "The members of several esoteric schools...claim to have in their possession the sum total of sacred and philosophical works in MSS and type; all the works, in fact, that have ever been written, in whatever language or character since the art of writing began; from the ideographic hieroglyphics down to the alphabet of Cadmus and Devanagri." S D I xxiii "The work [ISIS UNVEILED ] now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat intimate acquaintance with Eastern adepts and study of their science....It is an attempt to aid the student to detect the vital principles which underlie the philosophical systems of old....We believe in no Magic which transcends the scope and capacity of the human mind, nor in "miracles." I U, Vol. I, p. i "Our work, then, is a plea for the recognition of the hermetic philosophy, the anciently universal Wisdom-Religion, as the only possible key to the Absolute in science and theology." I U I p vii "The SECRET DOCTRINE is not a treatise, or a series of vague theories, but contains all that an be given out to the world in this century." S D I xxxviii "The aim of this work [ The SECRET DOCTRINE ] may be thus stated: -- 1. To show that Nature is not "a fortuitous concurrence of atoms," 2. and to assign to man his rightful place in the scheme of the Universe; 3. to rescue from degradation the archaic truths which are the basis of all religions; 4. and to uncover, to some extent, the fundamental unity from which all spring 5. finally to show that the Occult side of Nature has never been approached by the Science of modern civilization." S D I viii The Future "The problem of true Theosophy and its great mission are, first, the working out of clear unequivocal conceptions of ethic ideas and duties, such as shall best and most fully satisfy the right and altruistic feeling in men; and second, the modeling of these conceptions for their adaptation into such forms of daily life, as shall offer a field where they may be applied with most equitableness. Such is the common work placed before all who are willing to act on these principles." From THE GREAT MASTER'S LETTER, [LUCIFER, January, 1888, Vol. I p. 344. U L T Pamphlets, No. 22, p. 13. ] "Theosophy alone can gradually create a mankind as harmonious and as simple-souled as Kosmos itself; but to effect this theosophists have to act as such... [helping] to awaken the spirit in many a man" H P B Articles (U L T) , Vol. I, p. 105 -- THE TIDAL WAVE. [LUCIFER, Nov. 1889.] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 59990 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22629; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:32 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: ULT/"FIRM RESULTS"/interpretations Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear =93speculative=94 Mauri: What is your basis for your speculations? Or have you none? As far as I am concerned, I see to many phenomena that are analogous and repetitive -- so I concluded long ago with our SCIENCE (Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Engineering, etc.. etc.. ) that Nature runs under LAWS. I=92m also pretty convinced that we are free to dispute othe= rs=92 views and renditions of their observations. But then, what stability do we have to fall back on? We have all of us a dualistic mind approach. In mankind, the evolving =93animal intelligence=94 is raising itself to merge with the =93descending= God intelligence.=94 The =93God-like=94 Intelligence sacrifices its universal = vision for the sake of assisting the =93persona animal intelligence=94 of the transitory personal =93man=94 to raise itself. You speculate a lot but I don=92t see any order to those. Have you established any ? Or is my perception at fault.? You may not agree or like the simile, or my question. But that is what I have acquired from a careful study of the Theosophical teachings. Today I have sent out a small article on WHAT IS THEOSOPHY ? It covers pretty well the general definitions. It does not try to straight-jacket anything, but does declare there is a system and a scheme that is ages old and which is in effect a description o= f the laws and their operation in nature. It is not speculative but takes speculation into account. Speculation is the right of the free mind. But does it ever get beyond the cloud of doubt = ? Does it get to the stage where ignorance is separated from actual KNOWLEDGE ? Is there anything to share? If you dispute the fact of laws supporting all life, then there is little remaining to debate. If you wish to discuss your observation of laws in operation as a scientis= t would, then we have a lot to offer for mutual comparison. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: m [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:33 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: ULT/"FIRM RESULTS"/interpretations <<>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D MAURI: Dallas, it's as if somehow by your overall tone and emphasis you make the likes of "FIRM RESULTS AND VERIFICATION" almost sound as if they have, or ought to have, more than a dualistic/interpretive/relative reality. My speculations based on what I've read about Theosophical subjects so far have tended to lead me to think that ""FIRM RESULTS AND VERIFICATIONS" in "Theosophical terms," while having a sense in which they may be seen to have a relative relavance/value, ought to be viewed at the same time in their "larger Theosophical perspective" by taking into account "esoteric aspects" at least in terms of their theoretical/possible relatedness (even though that relatedness generally seems to appear as not being more-specifically conceivable by way of the dualistic terms of regula= r reality). So while there may be value in dualistic verifications of various kinds, surely the more specific "Theosophical verifications" might tend to result, instead, from less dualistic insights (in as much as if transcendence of dualism is a primary objective of applied Theosophy?)? I think we all follow dualistic notions and verifications in our own ways but, in Theosophical terms, seems to me that some of us might tend to take some verifications with a grain of salt (as the tired old saying goes). Surely as Theosophists we might do well to verify on the one hand (in the usual ways) while keeping in mind a "larger perspective" on the other hand, no matter how "inconceivable" that esoteric "larger perspective" may be judged to be? But then if you already knew all that, Dallas, I wonder what you might really trying to tell us with your "foundation knowledge," "firm results," "verification," etc.? Is it that you tend to believe, or DO believe, that certain kinds of study of certain kinds of Theosophical "original text" subjects is more condusive toward realizing esoteric aspects? Is that a Path that seems to work for you? But even if that were your perfect Path, I feel that I would still need to find mine: which for me is intimately connected with an ongoing daily experience that isn't limited by words/concepts such as "Theosophy," or "original texts," or "foundation knowledge," or whatever. "Original-text Theosophy" and this twiddle twaddling over the net for me is more like an interesting "hobby-on-the-side" as compared to my "essential Theosophy" which "takes into account" my "ongoing daily exprience" in "fuller-spectrum= " terms. Not that that's not the case in your case. Speculatively, Mauri --- You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: dalval14@earthlink.net List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=3Dtheos-l To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-theos-l-14759P@list.vnet.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 9838 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:42 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22200; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: Concept of Dualities Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Sunday, September 02, 2001 Dear Jerry: Seems to me the 3rd Law of your dualities is difficult for me to understand. Sounds like isolating a NORTH POLE on a magnet with no SOUTH polarity around ? Is that possible ? Whether enochian or not, all dualities to me , arise from a singularity. The ABSOLUTE ALL (out of manifestation or in manifestation) is always unmoved, indescribable, impartite. However if at the end of a Manvantara all that has manifested and created KARMA is resolved into the Pralayic condition and merged back into the ABSOLUTE, then, those dualities (now unified) would, on the cyclic re-emergence into the next karmic Manvantaric period become dualities again -- thus you would have the UNIVERSAL MONAD ( MAHA-ATMA - MAHA-BUDDHI ) as a kind of precursor to the reformation of the contrasting planes of manifestation that would be reestablished under universal KARMA. And all the numberless MONADS (in manifestation) would reappear. Another thought occurs to me. In some cases we (as our present limited physical brain consciousness) are unaware of the existence of a different plane, or state of CONSCIOUSNESS. Apparently a transition point between them may exist -- a "laya point" -- then the duality on this side is synthesized into a singularity (ONE ) on the other plane. Is this possible ? Dallas ================================= -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:03 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: Concept of Dualities <<<<[Mauri]:So while there may be value in dualistic verifications of various kinds, surely the more specific "Theosophical verifications" might tend to result, instead, from less dualistic insights (in as much as if transcendence of dualism is a primary objective of applied Theosophy?)? >>> Mauri (and anyone else who might be interested), let me quote once again a section from my Enochian Physics dealing with dualities so that we all understand how I see them. The book addresses Enochian Magic, but is equally applicable to Theosophy. The important part of this section is my Three Laws of Duality, which should help to see where I am coming from: ************** THE CONCEPT OF DUALITIES In order to understand Enochian physics, it is essential to first understand the doctrine of dualities. A duality implies any two-fold force or two-sided expression. The concept of dualities may seem highly philosophical at first, but it is an important concept to grasp and is crucial in understanding Enochian physics and the practice of Enochian Magic. A duality often seems to be two separate things or forces. Big and little for example, are two sides of a dualistic concept. We usually think that big is not the same thing as little. But actually they only exist in relation to each other. Big is only meaningful if something small is compared to it. For example, a mouse is small when compared to an elephant but is big when compared to a grain of sand. Man is small when compared to the universe of planets and stars but is big when compared to the atomic world of atoms and molecules. The concept of up is meaningless when used by itself. When you think of up you usually think of what is over your head or above you. But to someone on the other side of the world, your up is their down and vice versa. Enochian physics uses the term duality to denote any force or expression that has two sides to it such that either side is meaningless without the other. When you see another person and think in terms of ugly or beautiful, you are mutually comparing that person with other persons. If only one man existed, he would be neither ugly nor beautiful. The dualistic idea of beauty and ugliness would disappear. Similarly, a child has no concept of good or bad. He must learn about that duality as he grows up. It is impossible to become aware of one side of a duality without the other side. The very nature of dualities is that we become aware of both sides simultaneously and that we can only eliminate one side at the expense of the other. We can only hold onto one side by clinging to the other. This concept is extremely important to understand. It is the capstone of the Enochian magician's code of ethics and morality. A magician's morality is not society's morality. They look at life differently. The three main laws of any duality are as follows: Duality Law 1. When one side of a duality is created, the other side comes into existence simultaneously. Duality Law 2. When one side of a duality is eliminated, the other side ceases to exist simultaneously. Duality Law 3. Everything that exists is one side of a duality, even existence itself. The concept of dualities and the philosophical implications of dualities have been known for many centuries. Gotoma Buddha taught that existence and nonexistence were two sides of a duality. The psychological thrust of his Buddhism is to tread a "middle path." This implies that one should live in between the extreme points of dualities. "Do nothing to excess" and "moderation in all things" are the logic fallout of this philosophy. According to Enochian physics, duality leaves its stamp on all things in the universe. From subatomic structures to the cosmos itself, all things express a dual nature below the first Aethyr, LIL. We shall see later that quantum physics has encountered this phenomenon in atomic particles and that relativity physics has encountered it in the universe around us. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:51:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 71471 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:51:59 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23169; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Michael: As far as I know the Neuro-cognitive relates to our physical body and is quite limited by it. It is only a part of the process whereby the INNER MAN cognizes change, data, and seeks to make a relation to a system out of disparate information. All organization starts with stability of some kind, mathematical, physical, chemical, biological, but when one comes to the mind everything seems to become confused. What then would theosophy offer? 1. there is a THINKER 2. there is a subject or an object that can be selected to be thought about. 3. There is the process of comparison in search of an organized system from which receives or perceives data and change. 4. there is an attempt to organize this input, in search of some law that already exists and either originates it or is impacted by it. This is an area for research. 5. Finally comes the query : All this registering of data, and the collection of evidence evidently has some use. What is the use to be considered as? Is it useful, constructive, impersonal, hostile, and what is its relation to my living and the living of others? Is there a repository or a fund in existence to which we can relate our present experiences? You use the word "engram" which apparently is a concept or a force that is antagonistic -- but, antagonistic to what or to whom? I have so far only encountered its use with friends who are connected in some way with the philosophy of Scientology. You employ the general concept of PAIN and SUFFERING, DEATH, etc... Theosophically these relate more to emotional modes rather than to mental and philosophical ones. In Theosophy the Mind is considered to be the superior of the two. Mind rules emotion through first, an understanding of the nature of the problem, and then, second, makes for itself a determination and employs the power of the SELF-WILL. But this might be disputed. Man is considered at all times to be free and independent. Hence his choices from moment to moment, while "influenced," are yet still his own and free. The power of the individual mind is not to be limited by either preconception or prejudice, but ought to be carefully examined under the condition of careful introspection analogous to meditation. There rises the question: Who or what EXAMINES the (our) Mind? Who (or what) directs it? Who makes the selection of the subjects for examination and consideration? And, what is their ultimate objective? I do not have a full grasp of their (Scientology) philosophy, so that it can be compared by me, with the philosophy of the wholeness of the Universe and man's relation to it, as a reincarnating being who is learning how to accommodate his transitory mortality to an end objective that is universal in scope, and which will ultimately make him a true immortal with a vision scope and a wisdom that encompasses the Universe we live in. Theosophy considers that the sole method available for the realization or the attainment of such a state is alone through the practice of benevolence and compassion -- which is epitomized as UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD.. It avers that the ultimate powers of the Universe and of Nature can only be entrusted to those who are totally harmless to others, to themselves and are in effect, cosmocratores, and "builders" and supporters of Nature' purposes. In other words unselfishness and service to others are the sole avenues whereby personal selfishness and the greed for personal power can be eliminated. It helps of course, enormously, if one starts out with the concept that WE (the REAL MAN) are truly IMMORTAL, and that the SPIRIT/SOUL within, is immortal. But this is a difficult concept for the brain-mind of our physical embodiment to grasp and then to rely on. To be of help I trust you are familiar with the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (BY HPB) it is available through BLAVATSKY.NET on line, and is a good basic treatise to be familiar with. It is the view of Theosophy that the Universe and Nature represent the life-supportive powers and forces that enable all humans, MAN, to exist physically, emotionally, mentally and SPIRITUALLY.. It considers these to be universal and immutable as well as indestructible. The process of reincarnation it avers, is that by which these increments of spiritual growth and universality may be garnered. For there to be a useful and on going relationship there has to be a modicum of the same immortality in "man" ( Mind ?) as there is already existent in the Universe. [ The Universe embraces all.] Philosophically, the body as a physiological limitation, is more of a hindrance than a help. Finally there is no price to be put on wisdom and knowledge, If it is true, it is already free to all who seek it. It is present in the least situation we are in. It has supported our life so far, and few of us know much about physiology so as to trace the enormous complexity of the simplest human form. If ever there was a Universe in a nut-shell, it is in the physiological form of any human. It also draws attention to the wonderful complexity needed and the individual intelligence of the least of our cells to realize how harmonious the great disparity among them is galvanized into a harmony that permits our intelligence as an emotional being and a Mind being to coexist. But do let me know what you think of this approach. Best wishes, Dallas ====================== -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:53 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? Dallas and others, One reason I had suggested incorporating Neuro-cognitive systems into the matrix, is to review the engram throughout the time track (recorded periods of pain and unconsciousness (i.e. past death, births, prenatal events, severe trauma etc) including their processing. Some beleive that they should be left alone or left to the masters, while others place considerable emphasis in processing them to restore self determinism and personal freedom. while working in the lower worlds. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > > Dear Friends: > > Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the > separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on the > skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are > reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) > immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few > weeks ) and separated into two categories. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 02 16:52:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 23:52:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 71641 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0328.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.73]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23814; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:51:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:45:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Michael: "Sat-nam" (as I understand it) is the concept of employing a substitute name (mantram) for "God" or the deific principle as a purificatory rite -- in other words "pure speech" But pure speech starts (says theosophy) with pure intentions, pure thoughts and the control of our personal emotional self. "Sat" is a word implying Universal spiritual purity. "Nam" is a word meaning "name." In other words to employ it we would have to KNOW THE UNIVERSE and have the knowledge and power to fully cooperate with it. In the VOICE OF THE SILENCE H.P.Blavatsky repeats the ancient precept: "Help Nature, and work on with her, and she will regard thee as one of her creators, and make obeisance. Then will she show thee the means and the way...." We will never know the true name of GREAT NATURE until we merge ideally into and with her and have no shred of personal selfishness left. "The Great White Brotherhood" -- look at the description given in ISIS UNVEILED Vol. II pp 98-103 ; and in The SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I, pp 207-210. As to work see the Numbered paras in SECRET DOCTRINE I pp 272-3 and onward. Shamballah is the name of a place (given here and there in our literature) that will forever be secret to us until such time as we embody the ideals that it represents -- or such is my belief. In the meantime we all of us have work to do to serve those who ask. We need not worry about our "progress" as that is taken care of by great nature which is an honest debtor. Best wishes, Dallas =================== -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 6:04 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth Yes, I realized that I sent the wrong message about the dates after I sent it. What you say about Kabir etc is what I meant. Very interesing points raised abou the gital etc. Some of these paths indicate also, that there several worlds called the spiritual worlds that start at teh level of what they call Sat Nam ( beyond the worlds of trikuti and sunni) and go from there. There is also a view whereby the Great White Brotherhood is focused on the worlds of matter energy space and time and it's evolution into love and light and excellence & that there are other members of the hierarchy that there are other members of the hierarchy, that deal with there spiritual worlds which are accessed through the shabda or sound current and in bringing sould their when they are ready to do so, etc. Sar Bachan ( shiv dayal) and path of the masters ( julian johnson) are two excelent books if anyone is interested. At some levels they are beleive to work together. Som, say that one place of cooperation is in Shamballa ! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:19 PM Subject: [bn-study] Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > Re: Systems and the search for Truth > > > Dear Friend: > > Are we not then forced back on our own capacity to think these > ideas through? > > QUESTION : What basis for thinking and reasoning ought we to > apply? Or are there no available standards ? > > What shall we "stay focused" on ? > > As to words, sound, rhythms, voice, vibrations: > > I may be in error in that which I will say, (and please correct > me) > > Let me observe that both Kabir, the great poet, and Guru Nanak > have lived in the past millennium and not for "thousands of > years." The teachings and sentiments they used have been > around -- agreeably -- for thousands of years and they may have > been two of the latest foci for them.. Excuse me for saying > this, but it is only for the sake of accuracy, as the > Encyclopedias show the age of their life and teachings.. > > As to "Shabda-Yoga" as I understand it, this relates to the use > of words and the vibrations that serve to convey great and > powerful ideas. > > Mantras and the sacred verses of the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahma > Sutras, etc... and the Aranyakas are included among these. But > the SCIENCE of Mantra Yoga is not one that is disclosed until a > most advanced stage of initiation. > > All great Teachers and Poets are "Shabda-Yogis." When > Buddhi-Manas is manifest, then the power of the words used also > manifests. And it is the innate power of the right use of words > that makes them valuable and induces meditation and thought > about their meaning. > > In the S D I 362 the "atoms" are called "sound" in occultism. > Monads are also called "life-atoms." > > S D I 554-5 gives us a survey of the power of sound and words. > [Also S D I 93-5, 534-7, 564-5.] > > In its rhythms it is related to the senses and elements S D I > 145-6, 307, 464, 514-17, 523fn, > S D II 107 613, 622, 627-8, > > In Sanskrit speech and sound are called VACH. Shabda is a > compound, usually, of several sounds. It calls the Universe out > of Chaos : S D I 137. > > The hidden power of mantras is evoked : S D I 354, 137, > 431-2, it is "occult knowledge," and "Mulaprakriti" (root > matter or BUDDHI the vehicle of ATMA) S D I 430, and, the > "Universal Soul" [Mahat] S D I 352-3 > > The BHAGAVAD GITA is an example of a "Shabda-Yogic" treatise > which was "sung" by the Avatara Krishna to his devotee Arjuna > (and we are all Arjunas, his pupils), at the beginning of this > age named the Kali-Yuga (the age of spiritual darkness and of > iron). This BHAGAVAD GITA is designed to reverberate till the > end of that cycle 432,000 years hence. > > When the Great Buddha taught, the verses of the DHAMMAPADA (which > all the Bhikkus at the first convention held a year after His > death remembered) formed the "Shabda-upadhi" (or vehicle of the > words) of what he taught. The "Sermon on the Mount" forms the > mantramic exposition of what Jesus taught. But whoever may have > taught, it still remains the duty of the devotees, followers and > pupils of these wise Men to learn, think them out and adopt those > which (as Krishna says at the end) [p. 131] "This have I made > known unto thee this knowledge which is a mystery more secret > than secrecy itself; ponder it fully in thy mind, act as seemeth > best unto thee." > > I hope this will be of help > > Best wishes, > > > Dallas > > =============================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: M--- B----- > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:37 AM > To: study@blavatsky.net > Subject: Re: Deceptions in the pursuit of Truth > > > Sometimes these burlons can possibly make someone so attached to > their > preconceived notions about religious truth that the fail to > understand the > broader view. For example, Kabir, Nanak and subsequent Eastern > teachers in > the shabda yoga tradition are hardly "new age" and in fact have > around for > thousands of years. The studies of neuro-cognition are adding > much to an > understanding of religion, philosophy. Even Copernicus was > considered a > new-age thinker once ! > > Anyway to stay focused is also a virtue ! > > CUT > > > > > --- > Current topic is at > http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm > You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net > --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Sun Sep 02 20:01:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 31428 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lsmls02.we.mediaone.net) (24.130.1.15) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 03:01:23 -0000 Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f83318L11384 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:01:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their vision. I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and plate tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified front. There is slow change at Adyar. David Blankenship From micforster@yahoo.com Sun Sep 02 23:33:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: micforster@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 20164 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13404.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.62) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 06:33:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20010903062656.86616.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.34.225.148] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Sep 2001 23:26:56 PDT Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mic Forster Dear David: > The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort >out the age of man and plate tectonics. > Do you know if they reached any conclusions? Regards, Mic __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 05:32:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 50832 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 12:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0021.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.21]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f83CWPT15986; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> From: Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear David: I am as puzzled as you are by Tillett's definitions of a "Received Truth" -- in effect all education is the impartation of something which the teacher accepts as a truth, and then passes it on to the students. What we need is some sure "touchstone" that will tell us whether it is a TRUTH or not. I think as far as we individuals are concerned we are constantly discovering "truths." And we are continuously rechecking them for continuing validity. But I do not agree that THEOSOPHY is also "developing. The reason I say that is because the world and our Universe quite evidently rely on LAWS that are inherent in all -- things that are reliable, and have been proved endlessly by those who investigate.. Nature is found to contain ALL and support the LIFE FORCE that keeps all things alive and well. So what Science has been doing is merely uncovering those laws which are not superficially evident. It is re-discovery. Nature is a vast cooperative and handles the disparity of individualism by adjusting the environment. We may call this process Karma and say that is also a law that tends to balance and harmonize. It is both individual and can cover the development of the whole galaxy. If he means a REVELATION, then by a careful study of theosophy, as of all other major religious and philosophical systems it is possible to demonstrate that both the metaphysics and the ethics of these develop on parallel if not identical lines. It is a good idea to find out what H P B had to say about Theosophy and its main teachings and objects. Why not use the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ? Its available "on-line" at BLAVATSKY NET. I have found it most helpful. There is so much to inquire into and to learn. Best wishes, Dallas. ============================ -----Original Message----- From: David Blankenship [mailto:david-blankenship@mediaone.net] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:01 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their vision. I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and plate tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified front. There is slow change at Adyar. David Blankenship From johnb@quickinfo.net Mon Sep 03 08:49:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 15:49:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 48943 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 15:48:40 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id R9440KF6; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:48:39 -0600 Message-ID: <027601c13491$0cb734c0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:56:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" David wrote, "I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true as the consensus of science is, it is myth." Sure, HPB and Leadbeater might have been wrong. I still think they were right. All the science isn't in yet. I saw some TV shows recently that seem to confirm some of Leadbeater's statements. One of them dealt with the study of mitochondrial DNA. Some of their conclusions were 1) The total human gene pool consisted of only about 1000 individuals at a date approximately 75-80,000 BC. "We almost went extinct" (The show's statement, not mine) This corresponds very well with Leadbeater's Atlantean "catastrophe of 75,025 BC". 2) Cro-Magnon man was traced to see where he had come from (by mito-chondrial DNA). They concluded that he had come from Africa to central Asia, finally arriving in Europe. This matches the trek Leadbeater gives in "Man: Whence, How and Whither" Note that the Manu leaves behind a group in northern Africa, proceding then to central Asia. He says, "About a million years ago, he (the Manu) chose ... a few people he hoped to shape for his race, and with whom he therefore kept a connection. Four hundred thousand years later, he pikked out some more. ... Of these, numbers would be dropped out on the way, and the selection would be thus narrowed down from time to time. .... The isolation of a tribe ... in the mountains to the north of Ruta was the first decisive step in the building of the race, and this took place about 100,000 bc. "... in 79,797 bc, he called them off to the coast, that they might be shipped off through the Sahara Sea, whence they travelled forwards on foot by the south of Egypt to Arabia. ... the little nation, made up to 9000 men, women and children ...became a nation of several million in about 2000 years... From time to time emigrants left the main body, some settling in the south of Palestine and ... south of Egypt ... Occasionally he himself incarnated, and his descendants formed ... a somewhat improved type." "It was only a few years before the catastrophe of 75,025 bc that ... he selected about 700 of his own descendants ... reached the shores of the Gobi Sea, but bearing in mind the message he had received, he did not remain in the plain, but turned into the hills in the north ..." Description of the catastrophe: "The City (of the Golden Gates) was suddenly destroyed by the rushing in of the sea through huge fissures caused by explosions of gas, but unlike the catastrophe in which Poseidonis sank within 24 hours, these convulsions continued over a period of two years. ... The Himalayas were heaved up a little higher, the land to the south of India was submerged with its population, Egypt was drowned and only the pyramids were left standing ... land was thrown up, now Siberia ... central Asia rose, and many torrents, caused by the unprecedented rainfall, cut deep ravines through the soft earth. "While these seismic changes were in progress, the Manu's ... people were constantly terrified by the recurring earthquakes, and were almost paralysed by the fear that the sun ... had gone out forever. The weather was unspeakable. Terrible rains fell almost incessantly, masses of steam and clouds of dust enveloped the earth and darkened teh air. Nothing would grow properly, and they were exposed to severe privations ... only the stronger survived; the weaker were killed off. "At the end of five years, they had again become settled ... much virgin soil had been thrown up, and they were able to cultivate the land." This corresponds with modern theories about nuclear winter. It also corresponds with another item on one of the TV shows. A herd of fossilized rhinos was discovered in Nebraska, in a layer of volcanic ash. It was determined that they had died about 70-80,000 bc, and the cause of death was asphyxiation. I also notice a parallel between this account and the Jewish scriptures. Abraham as the father of a great people - the Manu as father of a great people. Moses leading his people to the promised land, yet wandering in the wilderness, and finally merely looking at the promised land from a high mountain. Also the Israelites' position as a chosen people, and the command not to intermarry with other peoples. HPB, defending the Atlantis claim, said it would be discovered, and that it ran from Greenland on south around the tip of Africa. This is a description of the mid-Atlantic ridge, which does indeed follow this course. It is a tectonic rift, and it is here that the Atlantic Ocean grows a few inches wider every century. From johnb@quickinfo.net Mon Sep 03 10:43:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 17:43:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 72112 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id R9440KG0; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:41:32 -0600 Message-ID: <032c01c134a0$d1db5ab0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: <001701c13424$b602fa40$06000007@we.mediaone.net> <027601c13491$0cb734c0$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:49:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" I wrote earlier, "A herd of fossilized rhinos was discovered in Nebraska, in a layer of volcanic ash. It was determined that they had died about 70-80,000 bc, and the cause of death was asphyxiation." I forgot to mention, there are no volcanoes in Nebraska. The show concluded that the ash had come from a volcano in the Yellowstone area. From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 10:48:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 17:48:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 82730 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 17:44:54 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0234.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.234]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23266; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:44:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: About the Mother of Light to Ramprakash. (Moscow) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:38:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear Friend: Very true, but the contrast implies that the one who is seeking and is CONSCIOUS has the freedom to compare and decide. The great dual principles reflect the primordial MONAD or SPIRIT (ATMA) and MATTER (BUDDHI -- or accumulated experience since all eternity) The MIND maintains a medial position an act as WITNESS, OBSERVER and it independence comes from the every unknown KARANA the causeless cause of all causes. That's how I see it. Dal ========================== -----Original Message----- From: Gopi Chari [mailto:ekcvv@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 4:21 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Cc: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: About the Mother of Light to Ramprakash. (Moscow) The real Truth is a place where there are no opposites! LOVE has no hate as its opposite component, LIFE has no deatth as its component, BEAUTY has no ugly as its component. Gopi On Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:04:09 -0400 "Bill Meredith" writes: > > > ---------- > > Ramprakash > > How will the true be known otherwise than as a contrast to what is > not > true > > or what is partially true ? > > RP > ---------- > This dualistic concept gives tremendous value to the 'not true' and > 'partially true' for without them truth cannot be known. > > Is it possible to re-cognize the taste and feel of truth within our > hearts > without using our brains to compare, contrast, and eventually > organ-ize? > > Likewise it appears that some of us may be inclined to 'know' the > truth of > Cassandra through our closed mind instead of meeting her with our > open > heart. > > Bill > From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 03 12:42:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51114 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 19:42:27 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0644.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.134]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15487; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:41:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:34:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 03, 2001 Dear Michael: I am familiar with some of Hubbard's writings, or have read them. I found them very "materialistic." In the way they limited themselves (as most Sci-Fi does) to the physical and personal existence. Theosophy goes much further and asks for the cause of the physical. Then we get into the astral, etc... Karma, reincarnation Soul immortality etc ... Pain and trauma either physical or psychic will involve the mind/soul where we are most sensitive and hence most apprehensive of a future yet to come (if ever). I think it is one of the old Sages who said "Beware of anticipating pain yet to come." If we don't know KARMA we also wont be able to know how and when it strikes. But something in us is aware of that and warns. Why? I am confused by the use of the phrase" etheric plane" since I don't find H P B using that as a division of the principal 7 in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY. Was it Leadbeater who invented that? And if so why ? As to how it might impress us when in a plane or state of "unconsciousness" to the brain-mind I have no idea. But if we take one statement made by Theosophy as correct: namely, the one that states the descending Monadic (God-like) Consciousness meets the ascending Animal Intelligence and Instinct in the Human being, we might secure an answer. Man's condition in terms of sensitivity and self-education in regard to universal laws and Karma, might make of him (us) a crucible where the two types of consciousness meet and mingle. One might say that this is the "field of Kurukshetra (B. Gita)" where the pupil meets the Teacher at a battle front and surveys the armies of the contestants -- the personal and the impersonal and Wise. Any time we have suffering, pain, apprehension, etc... we are focusing ourselves in the personal. Is it possibly because we know we chose wrongly? If a detached survey (unemotional) of the cognitions of the nervous system is attempted, I think we are really saying: "What underlies the detectable movements of that nervous system? What causes "cognition?" Who or what in us is such an "observer" capable of being emotionally detached? How are ?emotions" to be classified? What are they for? How can they be made passive and actually removed or debarred from entering such a search? To me the "engrams" appear to be mainly associated with the passional and desire nature (the Kamic). What do you think? Best wishes, Dallas ================ -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:10 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." Thanks for your views, Dallas. These are views of which I am familiar and am in agreement with. In view of the Engram; it is not owned by Scientology any more than the Great White Brotherhood is owned by any earthly group. These are axiomatic truths which are available to all. Theosophy is a great system and I am in alignment with it's views on benevolence and love as well as wisdom. Of course true test is to show these characteristics to those who shake our views. Anyway, it seems that the extremely painful periods such as family deaths or even our own past deaths in the physical universe and other forms of extreme trauma and among the very reasons why humans can not express the benevalance and love that they are capable of expressing. Painful emotion is a lower level manifestation of engramatic affects as I understand them. I know of very few systems which go into any detail about this. This is partially because the expreiences are so severe that they recirded during periods of unconsciousness. Some migh call this he "etheric plane" between the causal plane and the the higher self !!! While I am NOT giving a plugto Hbbards organization, there are 3 books of his that I think are of great importance to any sincere seeker. Dianetics, The Science of Survival and Scientology A History of Man. Unfortunately many will not take the time to understand the truths ( and of course the BS too) associated with these very unique books due to emotional attachments relating to dislike the author or his subsequent organization. That would be like not studying calculus because you do not like Newton or Liebnitz, the co- founders of these important axiomatic truths. In the spirit of Theosophy, I suggest that the unemotional study of cognition may start with the nervious system but trancend to the highest levels of approaching the level of the sheaths surrounding the soul. The intracies of the engram are quite profound and may have much to do with our inabilities to understand higher realities ! Perhaps I am going off topic though. Just a thought. have a great holiday, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:12 AM Subject: [bn-study] WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." > > > --- > > Monday, September 03, 2001 > > > Dear Michael: > > As far as I know the Neuro-cognitive relates to our physical body > and is quite limited by it. It is only a part of the process > whereby the INNER MAN cognizes change, data, and seeks to make a > relation to a system out of disparate information. > > All organization starts with stability of some kind, > mathematical, physical, chemical, biological, but when one comes > to the mind everything seems to become confused. What then would > theosophy offer? > > 1. there is a THINKER > > 2. there is a subject or an object that can be selected to be > thought about. > > 3. There is the process of comparison in search of an organized > system from which receives or perceives data and change. > > 4. there is an attempt to organize this input, in search of some > law that already exists and either originates it or is impacted > by it. This is an area for research. > > 5. Finally comes the query : All this registering of data, and > the collection of evidence evidently has some use. What is the > use to be considered as? Is it useful, constructive, impersonal, > hostile, and what is its relation to my living and the living of > others? Is there a repository or a fund in existence to which we > can relate our present experiences? > > You use the word "engram" which apparently is a concept or a > force that is antagonistic -- but, antagonistic to what or to > whom? I have so far only encountered its use with friends who > are connected in some way with the philosophy of Scientology. > > You employ the general concept of PAIN and SUFFERING, DEATH, > etc... Theosophically these relate more to emotional modes > rather than to mental and philosophical ones. > > In Theosophy, as I understand this, these are correctives and not > punitives, nor are they fortuitous. They are the return to us of > forces we employed earlier when we chose selfishly to hurt > others. Karma is created by selfishness and results in suffering > to our personality, for the reason that the elementary lives > which make up our personality and our physical bodies, are > tortured by us, and when they return they bring with them the > quality and force of the torture we originally affixed to them so > as to wound another being. You will find that H P B wrote about > this in her article "TRANSMIGRATION OF LIFE ATOMS" [THEOSOPHIST > Vol. 4, p. 286 ; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 5, p. > 110; UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS, H P B Articles, Vol. 2, > p.249 ] > > In Theosophy the Mind is considered to be the superior of the > two. Mind rules Emotion through, first, an understanding of the > nature of the problem, and then, second, makes for itself a > determination and employs the power of the SELF-WILL. But this > might be disputed. > > Man (as a Living Mind -- in which there is focused the potential > of every force of the Universe) is considered at all times to be > free and independent. Hence > his choices from moment to moment, while "influenced," are yet > still his own, and free. > > The power of the individual mind is not to be limited by either > preconception or prejudice, but ought to be carefully examined > under the condition of careful introspection analogous to > meditation. > > There rises the question: Who or what EXAMINES the (our) Mind? > Who (or what) directs it? Who makes the selection of the > subjects for examination and consideration? And, what is their > ultimate objective? > > I do not have a full grasp of their (Scientology) philosophy, so > that it can be compared by me, with the "philosophy of the > wholeness" of the Universe, and man's relation to it, as a > reincarnating being. Man is considered to be one who is learning > how to accommodate his > transitory mortality to an end objective that is universal in > scope, and which will ultimately make him a true immortal with a > vision scope and a wisdom that encompasses the Universe we live > in. To do this harmlessly, the highest ideals as "altruism" has > to be practised all the time voluntarily so that no shred of > selfish personality will serve as a barrier to this attainment. > > As I understand it one has to practice UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD all > the time if the Wisdom and benevolence of Nature (Universe) is to > be entrusted to him. This may appear an impossible dream if one > has adopted the idea that we as PERSONALITIES are to survive as > long as possible and to defend our local territories. This > concept runs directly opposite to that. > > Theosophy considers (let me repeat) that the sole method > available for the > realization or the attainment of such an elevated state of > knowledge and power is alone attained through the practice of > benevolence and compassion -- which is epitomized > as UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD. It avers that the ultimate powers of > the Universe and of Nature can only be entrusted to those who are > totally harmless to others, to themselves and are in effect, > cosmocratores, "builders" and supporters of Nature' purposes. > > In other words unselfishness and service to others are the sole > avenues whereby personal selfishness and the greed for personal > power can be eliminated. It helps of course, enormously, if one > starts out with the concept that WE (the REAL MAN) are truly > IMMORTAL, and that the SPIRIT/SOUL within, is an eternal. But > this > is a difficult concept for the brain-mind of our physical > embodiment to grasp and then to rely on. > > To be of help I trust you are familiar with the KEY TO THEOSOPHY > (BY HPB) it is available through BLAVATSKY.NET on line, and is > a good basic treatise to be familiar with. > > It is the view of Theosophy that the Universe and Nature > represent the life-supportive powers and forces that enable all > humans, MAN included, to exist physically, emotionally, mentally > and > SPIRITUALLY. It considers these principles to be universal and > immutable > as well as indestructible. The process of reincarnation it > avers, is that by which these increments of spiritual growth and > universality may be garnered. > > Consider that the physical body will for all of us eventually > die. The knowledge and powers we may have accumulated will > towards that final moment be dissipated if selfish, and will be > translated into DEVACHAN if spiritual. It is the Devachanic > memories that form the "food" for meditation in that state as > they are built into our permanent INDIVIDUALITY ( the REAL and > ETERNAL EGO). > > For there to be a useful and on going relationship there has to > be a modicum of the same immortality in "man" ( Mind ?) as > there > is already existent in the Universe. [ The Universe embraces > all.] > > Philosophically, the body as a physiological limitation, is more > of a hindrance than a help. But we can refine it to a point > where it becomes a willing and docile assistant to the inner man, > and itself "grows" in intelligent and consciousness in its many > units. > > Finally, there is no price to be put on wisdom and knowledge, If > it is true, it is already free to all who seek it. It is present > in the least situation we are in. It has supported our life so > far, and few of us know much about physiology so as to trace the > enormous complexity of the simplest human form. If ever there > was a Universe in a nut-shell, it is (by analogy) to be seen in > the cooperation of the disparate units and systems of each of our > physiological human or animal forms. > > It also draws attention to the wonderful complexity needed and > the individual intelligence of the least of our cells, to realize > how harmonious the great disparity among them is galvanized into > an inter-active harmony that permits our intelligence as an > emotional being and > a Mind being to coexist with them and to use them pretty much as > we choose. It is possible thorough wrong choices or neglect to > cause disease and premature death to the body cooperative. > > But do let me know what you think of this approach. > > Best wishes, > > Dallas > > ====================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Enter your name here [mailto:mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:53 AM > To: study@blavatsky.net > Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > > Dallas and others, > > One reason I had suggested incorporating Neuro-cognitive systems > into the matrix, is to review the engram throughout the time > track > (recorded periods of pain and unconsciousness (i.e. past death, > births, prenatal > events, severe trauma etc) including their processing. Some > believe that > they should be left alone or left to the masters, while others > place > considerable emphasis in processing them to restore self > determinism and > personal freedom. while working in the lower worlds. > > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:18 PM > Subject: [bn-study] RE: MEMORY OF PAST LIVES Why amnesia ? > > > > Saturday, September 01, 2001 > > > > > > Dear Friends: > > > > Amnesia in reincarnation is explained in Theosophy by the > > separation after death of all the impresses left in memory on > the > > skandhas (little-lives) which, in the period of Kama-loka are > > reviewed by the IMMORTAL EGO ( ATMA-BUDDHI-HIGHER MANAS) > > immediately after physical death ( period a few hours to a few > > weeks ) and separated into two categories. > > CUT > > > > > > > --- > Current topic is at > http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm > You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [mb1234@ix.netcom.com] > To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net > --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Sep 03 12:59:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 24270 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tisch.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.157) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 19:59:02 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (nycmny1-ar4-4-43-236-062.elnk.dsl.gtei.net [4.43.236.62]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11466 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 15:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B93E10D.1AD794C1@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 15:59:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky dalval14@earthlink.net wrote: > I am familiar with some of Hubbard's writings, or have read them. > I found them very "materialistic." In the way they limited > themselves (as most Sci-Fi does) to the physical and personal > existence. Aleister Crowley called L. Ron Hubbard the "most evil man he had ever met." Bart Lidofsky From compiler@wisdomworld.org Mon Sep 03 16:23:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 3 Sep 2001 23:23:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5685 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.143) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Sep 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010903232301.VCBO1331.femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3B941ECD.AC9B378A@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:22:37 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: study@blavatsky.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: "Dianetics"--a Theosophical article about it back in 1950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler Based on some of the conversations going on, this article, the 55th one in the 57-article series entitled "STUDIES IN KARMA", may be somewhat useful: "DIANETICS" http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/StudiesInKarma-Series/Dianetics.html This is the index page to all 57 articles in the series: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/StudiesInKarma-Series/index.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Mon Sep 03 19:32:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 4 Sep 2001 02:32:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19116 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Sep 2001 02:30:28 -0000 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60969DAF49 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:30:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f842UPa17330 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001101c134e9$907e38a0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:30:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" I deleted the newsletter to make room for my incoming mail, but I did make a copy of subscribing and unscribing. The email address is questmag@theosmail.net. Subscribing will get you the current issue and subsequent issues. It is put out by scientist who are theosophists. The scientist who talk about Atlantis said it was fanciful on HPB part and that because of plate tectonics such a continent couldn't exist. The scientist who talk about the age of man put it about six million years with all the earlier ancestors. There currently two theories about the origin birthplace. One is the popular out of Africa theory. And the other is that Homo Sapiens originated simultaneously in different places around the globe about 200,000 years ago from earlier men out of Africa. I hope I did justice to the talk on man but it is from memory and it is a poor substitute for the full articles. I suggest you subscribe and read for yourself what they had to say. The first part is about a conference the had and the articles follow. David Blankenship From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Tue Sep 04 17:15:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 00:15:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 74941 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 00:05:45 -0000 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD8CDAFC2 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:05:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f8505gw12340 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c1359e$83ba15c0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:05:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" Evolution, relativity and plate tectonics all faced tremendous forces against them because they destroyed the comfortable view of the world. All three have since been proven true so that their proponents went from fringe science, except in Darwin's case, to mainstream and their detractors have gone to fringe science like the creationists. I read a time-life book decades ago that described a scientist that devoted his entire like to document the incidences where rock stratas lined up on one side of the Atlantic to those on the other side. He devoted 50 years to this work in the first half of the century and even produced maps of what he thought it look like. He died without it ever being excepted. There was a conference in the mid-fifties in which it was discovered to the consensus of the geologists there. Neither he nor Einstein ever received the noble prize for relativity or plate tectonics. I can understand why the theosophist scientist at the conference would not want to defend the theory of lost continents. I learned as a child to seek the opinions of those who disagree with me in a effort to get to the truth. There are incidences where the truth is something neither thought of but we discovered it together. I believe in the reconciliation of religion, philosophy and science but too often in the newsletters digest I receive science is relegated to the foot of the table and ignored. Science has made blunders but it is self-correcting. Theosophy is fragmented to various groups and even within the groups there are conflicting opinions. This was a group that is trying to find the truth about nature and god. I have a degree in chemistry so I am more sympathetic to their dilemma. Dr. Tillett wish to provoke responses to his thought-provoking article in theos-World. I have tried to answer him. David Blankenship From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Sep 04 17:24:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 00:24:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 17520 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 00:15:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 00:15:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 00:15:49 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0171.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.171]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12366; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:15:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Scientific Hypotheses and Interpretations Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:09:27 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <001101c134e9$907e38a0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> From: dalval14@earthlink.net Tuesday, September 04, 2001 Dear Friend: Thanks for the address will look into and ask for more information. The 2nd Vol. of the S D discusses prehistory and the archaic ages. Also on pp. 68-70 it gives a view in terms of our years of the scope of a number of cycles. As to Atlantis, the prevalence of evidence as can be secured from a number of web-sites, and the evidence adduced by Donnelley ought to be considered. I do know that theories and hypotheses have been erected against the existence of Atlantis and especially of Poseidonis, the last Island remnant to sink But then, our Science has been altogether too restricted in their views and I think we suffer from that. Have you had an opportunity to review what H P B has to say about Atlantis? I mean in The SECRET DOCTRINE ? Best wishes, Dallas ========================== -----Original Message----- From: David Blankenship [mailto:david-blankenship@mediaone.net] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:30 PM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? I deleted the newsletter to make room for my incoming mail, but I did make a copy of subscribing and unscribing. The email address is questmag@theosmail.net. Subscribing will get you the current issue and subsequent issues. It is put out by scientist who are theosophists. The scientist who talk about Atlantis said it was fanciful on HPB part and that because of plate tectonics such a continent couldn't exist. The scientist who talk about the age of man put it about six million years with all the earlier ancestors. There currently two theories about the origin birthplace. One is the popular out of Africa theory. And the other is that Homo Sapiens originated simultaneously in different places around the globe about 200,000 years ago from earlier men out of Africa. I hope I did justice to the talk on man but it is from memory and it is a poor substitute for the full articles. I suggest you subscribe and read for yourself what they had to say. The first part is about a conference the had and the articles follow. David Blankenship Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From DNisk98114@aol.com Wed Sep 05 07:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 5 Sep 2001 14:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 46137 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m09.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.164) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 14:09:02 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.14.1a11cec3 (26120) for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14.1a11cec3.28c78bf9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:57 EDT Subject: Re: To Larry from Moscow To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com In a post by Leon Maurer , he states that; Especially, such a word as Love, in the theosophical sense, must never be equated with sexual love, or even the love between student and teacher, parent and child, or love of family, clan, group, country, etc. -- and certainly, cannot be associated with love of any material things. 7777777777777777 Radiance ! O Great Light Divine ! The Light shines in all , but in all doth not shine forth equally. ------------------------------------- Invocations such as the above, use words that pop up frequently in many Ancient religions which seems to underscore LM's posted remarks on love. They might have said: Love! O Great Love Divine ! Love is in all , but in all Love shows not equally. ----------------------------------- Certainly substitutions have been made but the word "Radiance" seems to suggest one thing and "Love" another. What we seem to need is a synthesis of the two and in this world , as Leon says , there are far too many terrestrial "draggings" of the word love and the word "light" can be dragged to death also ,as we might be finding out these days with its constant over usage.(in this poster's opinion) The old hack about something said often enough "becomes" true refers to the "LATENT POTENTIALITY" that is already there , as Theosophy ,in the form of H. P. B. points out.(The underlying basis of ALL religions ie Universal Brotherhood) We adore "LATENT POTENTIALITY" ! Others may admire the action of "some thing" "becoming true". Experience will probably show , perhaps, that nothing was real-y needed to "come true" but that had always been true throughout Eternity. It becomes "true" to us for our own information and edification . Just a thought after breakfast. From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Sep 05 16:22:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 5 Sep 2001 23:22:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 50720 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Sep 2001 23:22:52 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0831.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.191.66]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA10642; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:22:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Tselem - the astral body also TZOOL-MAH Gol. 348 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Wednesday, September 05, 2001 Dear Reed Regardless of TZELEM (see TZOOL-MAH (just below it on The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, p. 348 you have the 7-fold division. But the ASTRAL BODY precedes the physical. [ KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) pp. 91-2, 135-6, 175-6.] It provides the lattice-work of force centers on which the MOLECULES of the physical accrete (see H P B PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION, H.P.Blavatsky Articles II pp 7...) The atoms are apparently on the astral side whereas the molecules are on the physical. [ "vital and prototypal body...it is born before and dies or fades out with the disappearance of the last atom of the body." "Linga-Sarira" T. Glos p. 189-90; Raja-Yoga, pp 34-5; S D I 157, S D II 149 ] H P B also explains the "Astral Soul" (H P B Art II, pp 18-20) In PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION, H P B Art II 13-14, 17, 18-25, ) the Lower brain mind is explained in several places and contrasted with the Higher Manas and the Universal Mind. Hope this is of help Dal ====== -----Original Message----- From: Reed Carson [mailto:carson@blavatsky.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:56 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Tselem - the astral body in ancient Hebrew esoteric philosophy Folks, Let me just start at the basics on this. In the Western culture there are two predominant views. One is that we are made of blind matter and nothing more. This is the view of materialism. The second view is that somehow embedded or connected with the lump of "clay," is a "soul". The religious view. Of course there are other views. St. Paul of Christianity holds to a human being as a tripart entity. Exactly what that triple is supposed to be, you will not find out properly by reading the English of the Bible. It has been smoothed over! It will be necessary to look at the Greek to ferret it out, and then the result will look much more like the Theosophical view. Other shades of viewpoint will recognize the separation of mind and brain and open a pandora's box of possibilities. Perhaps even a limited few physicists will note the very significant role of consciousness in quantum physics and postulate a larger consciousness of which reflects the universe. This opens up models of reality that have some relationship to Theosophy and I suppose we should later discuss them. In this letter I want to discuss the astral body from the viewpoint of Judaism. This will start the filling in of the matrix and show that there were ancient views that recognized more complexity to man than the above views concede. First the Theosophical Glossary by HPB: Tselem: (Heb.) An image, a shadow. the shadow of the physical body of a man, also the astral body - Linga Sharira. (See "Tzool-ma".) This shows us a clear and direct definition of Tselem as the astral body from the viewpoint of Theosophy.. If we follow her and check out the entry for Tzoolma it is very informative. It says: (Kab.). Lit., "shadow". It is stated in the Zohar (I., 218 a. I. fol. 117 a, col 466.), that during the last seven nights of a man's life, the Neshamah, his spirit, leaves him and the shadow, tzool-mah, acts no longer, his body casting no shadow; and when the tzool-mah disappears entirely, then Ruach and Nephesh - the soul and life - go with it. It has been often urged that in Kabbalistic philosophy there were but three, and with the Body, Guff, four "principles". It can be easily shown there are seven, and several subdivisions more, for there are the "upper" and the "lower" Neshamah (the dual Manas); Ruach, Spirit or Buddhi; Nephesh (Kama) which "has no light from her own substance", but is associated with the Guff, Body; Tzelem, "Phantom of the Image"; and D''yooknah, Shadow of the Phantom Image, or Mayavi Rupa. Then come the Zurath, Prototypes, and Tab-nooth, Form; and finally, Tzurah, "the hightest Principle (Atman) which remains above", etc. etc. (See Myer's Qabbalah, pp. 400 et. seq.) The Pasadena Glossary says: Tselem (Hebrew) A form, image, likeness; a shadowy image, a shadow. Hence also the astral "shadow" of the human physical body -- the model-body or linga-sarira. It corresponds to the Sanskrit chhayas: in the tselem of 'elohim was made 'Adam (Zohar iii, 76, Crem ed.), i.e., in the image of the pitris was fashioned mankind (cf Genesis 1:27); but not only "in the image" but likewise of the substance of the shadow itself humanity was formed; in other words, the pitris projected their astral shadows which became the lower principles of the individuals of the human race. See also TSULMA' And following up: Tsulma' (Chaldean) A shadow, image; used in the Qabbalah in connection with the neshamah and ruah: during the last seven days of man's life, it is said, every night the neshamah goes up from a person and the tsulma' is no more shown; when the tsulma' goes away the ruah goes with it (Zohar i 117a, Crem ed). The Hebrew equivalent is tselem (shade or shadow, hence a likeness or image of a being or thing), corresponding more or less both to the human model-body or linga-sarira, and to the mayavi-rupa or higher image of a human being, sent forth at will. ______ I will be using "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible". A concordance to the Bible lists every work that occurs in the Bible and where. This book I like because it gives a little more information. In particular this book says the word "Tselem" occurs 16 times translated into English as "image", 1 time translated as "form" and one time it is translated as "vain shew" (perhaps because a vain woman was conceived as caring only about her image). By looking up where the word "image" is used, it is possible to tell with Young's concondance, (p. 509) most of the occurrences of the word Tselem mean "image" in a most normal sense. Four occurrences may possibly seem special and they are all in Gensis. They are 1) 1.26: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." 2) 1.27 "So God created man in his own image in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." 3) 5.3 "And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." 4) and 9.6. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." ________ In themselves these candidate passages are not to me strongly suggestive as references to an astral body. But they might have a special meaning to the interpreters of those passages. But what about the point raised by the Pasadena Glossary when in invokes the Theosophical idea "The pitris projected their astral shadows"? Do we have here a phraseology in Hebrew that reflects this rather esoteric assertion of Theosophy? Can anyone explain this Theosophical idea? It seems that to pursue any further the Hebrew meanings of Tselem and confirm these things for ourselves, we will have to explore the Zohar and explore the interpretation generally put upon the term Tselem by the Kabbalist view. Reed --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From ramadoss@infohwy.com Wed Sep 05 19:45:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 02:45:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 18361 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 02:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 02:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 02:42:54 -0000 Received: from senzar.infohwy.com (sa5399-103-10.stic.net [216.198.60.149]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/infohwy) with ESMTP id VAA10491 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:51:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010905213929.024f88f0@mail.infohwy.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.infohwy.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:39:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Received Truth? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com At 08:01 PM 9/2/01 -0700, David Blankenship wrote: >I have been a member of the Adyar theosophy group for two years now and I >don't believe it is. The dream of HPB and the Adyar group was that >theosophy was an ongoing process of discovery of the truth. HPB, Besant and >Leadbeater all said they could be wrong but it was the best they could do. >And that, they hoped those who followed would make corrections in their >works as new discoveries were made. This is my understanding of their >vision. I am glad to hear about your feedback. Would it not be interesting to hear the feedback from members who have been say 10, 20, 30 years around the Adyar group? Of course if the feedback (especially +ve ones) is from anyone who is or was a office holder or active in the other officially non-related activities, one may want to take it with a proverbial grain of salt. >I emailed Olcott@theosopical.org and questioned the interpretation in >the books I had read about Alantis and the other lost continents being true >as the consensus of science is, it is myth. He emailed me and said perhaps >HPB was wrong and he was giving a talk on that at next meeting he had. Who is the person who provided you with the response? >The members newsletter put me in touch with the New Zealand theosophy society >groups newsletter of scientists, put out by Hugh Murdock. I also saw it. I noticed that it seems to be a closed group. Can some one who has seen the past issues comment on how independent are the articles. >The last newsletter was an attempt by them to sort out the age of man and >plate >tectonics. It was to reconcile theosophy with science and present a unified >front. There is slow change at Adyar. I hope it is so and is good news. We will have to re-visit after couple of years to appreciate the extent of change. MKR From ramadoss@infohwy.com Wed Sep 05 19:57:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 02:57:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 56775 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VOLTAIRE.stic.net) (216.198.0.5) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 02:57:18 -0000 Received: from senzar.infohiwy.net ([216.198.60.149]) by VOLTAIRE.stic.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-70040U18500L11000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:57:12 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010905215158.03803530@mail.infohiwy.net> X-Sender: ramadoss!infohiwy.net@mail.infohiwy.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:53:58 -0500 To: ,theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: magistr virus ************************************* Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com It's back! New Magistr virus at large By Dennis Fisher eWEEK September 4, 2001 2:58 PM PT Virus researchers have discovered a new variant of the destructive Magistr virus that destroys local and network files and can also overwrite data stored on the CMOS and BIOS chips. Known as Magistr.B, the new virus arrives in an e-mail and can carry multiple message attachments. The virus itself is contained in a file called readme.exe, and the user must open the file for the virus to execute. The virus is reported to be spreading quickly in Europe, but has not been seen in the United States yet, anti-virus vendors say. The virus is a variant of the original Magistr.A virus, which has been around since early 2000 and is still one of the most common viruses on the Internet. In addition to destroying files, Magistr.B also overwrites win.com and NETLDR, the operating-system loaders for Windows, and destroys any file with a .ntz extension, which are files used by AV software, according to an alert released by security vendor Vigilinx Inc. The new virus also disables any active copies of Zone Labs Inc.'s ZoneAlarm personal firewall that it finds. The virus spreads via e-mail and generates random subject lines of up to 60 characters. Unlike many other mass-mailing viruses, Magistr.B can pull addresses from the files of several e-mail clients, including Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora, Netscape Messenger and some Web-based mail clients. From gschueler@earthlink.net Thu Sep 06 06:33:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 13:33:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 44198 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-3.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 8176 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20010906133118.8168.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from ws2-3.us4.outblaze.com for [24.3.0.34] via web-mailer on Thu, 06 Sep 2001 21:31:18 +0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 21:31:18 +0800 Subject: Theosophy a Received Truth From: "Gerald Schueler" Christianity was "received" from Jesus, who "received" it from God. Buddhism was "received" from Buddha who "received" it from his spiritual lineage of buddhas. Taoism was "received" from Lao Tao, and so on. Modern Theosophy (cap T as opposed to the ancient theosophy with a small t, of which modern Theosophy is a subset, which was only "received" in pieces by different people and is still largely "occult") was "received" from H. P. Blavatsky who "received" it from her Masters. This seems pretty clear cut to me, and I think Tillet is correct. The idea of having a received truth is why lineages are so important. Jerry S. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://webmail.earthlink.net From gschueler@earthlink.net Thu Sep 06 06:34:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: gschueler@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 13:34:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 44317 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws2-1.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.68) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 13:31:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 1557 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Sep 2001 13:31:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20010906133121.1556.qmail@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from ws2-1.us4.outblaze.com for [24.3.0.34] via web-mailer on Thu, 06 Sep 2001 21:31:19 +0800 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 21:31:19 +0800 Subject: Theosophy a Received Truth From: "Gerald Schueler" Christianity was "received" from Jesus, who "received" it from God. Buddhism was "received" from Buddha who "received" it from his spiritual lineage of buddhas. Taoism was "received" from Lao Tao, and so on. Modern Theosophy (cap T as opposed to the ancient theosophy with a small t, of which modern Theosophy is a subset, which was only "received" in pieces by different people and is still largely "occult") was "received" from H. P. Blavatsky who "received" it from her Masters. This seems pretty clear cut to me, and I think Tillet is correct. The idea of having a received truth is why lineages are so important. Jerry S. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://webmail.earthlink.net From ramadoss@infohwy.com Thu Sep 06 06:46:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 13:46:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 97015 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 13:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 13:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picard.bizchek.com) (208.210.50.206) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 13:41:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 31434 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 13:41:50 -0000 Received: from sa5399-109-19.stic.net (HELO infohwy.com) (216.198.61.181) by mail1.bizchek.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 13:41:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3B977C52.14F8139D@infohwy.com> Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 08:38:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@yahoogroups.com" , theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Internet - Progress Report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ramadoss@infohwy.com Census Bureau found that 42% of US households have access to Internet which is up from 18% three years ago. More children than ever are growing in homes with computers. Nearly 90% of all kids in the age group 6 to 17 have access to Internet either at home or school or both. In Clarksville, Maryland some 9th graders were given handheld devices to use for school work on a test basis. Add to this the instant messaging capability with wireless phones. So the juggernaut of Internet moves on unstoppable. Traditionally in pre-Internet era, formal organizations were necessary to bring people together who had common interest in any topic and had to provide a meeting place or some such arrangement. In addition such formal organizations had, from time to time, charismatic leaders to whom those in the organization looked up to and was the glue that kept the organization together. Also, especially the "spiritual" organizations, had a following which was interested in "spiritual" practices or lessons which demanded absolute and unquestioned obedience as the price for being taught any practice or given directions for spiritual growth. Now comes the spread of democratic order combined with communication infra-structure based on Internet which makes it an ideal combination. Old order of things give way to new order, inevitably. This brings into focus the role of theosophical truths in changing the attitudes of people which in turn help Humanity change for better. Since such a change was at the root of the long term objective of modern theosophical movement, we can see a changing role for organizations. So we can expect organizations to be more of storehouse of information, not unlike Public Libraries, where one can access information, which means organizations may no longer be in the role of directly or indirectly controlling or directing the lives of people. Are we ready for such a change? Any change is traumatic. Especially when organizations are lead by those who grew up in an entirely different environment and probably find it difficult to comprehend the implication of the changes taking place in the world, are likely to fight such drastic changes and we can expect either changes overtake them or the current generation of kid growing up in the Internet savvy world where real democratic ideals are pervasive. Could it be that Krishnamurti was far ahead of his time and he was right when gave his Pathless Land statement when he also disbanded his organizations and disassociated himself with all organizations including the Theosophical Society. mkr From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Thu Sep 06 09:43:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 16:43:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 5169 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 16:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 16:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 16:26:34 -0000 Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B81BDAF10 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:26:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f86GQm121470 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002f01c136f0$b3084880$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:26:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" Ramadoss wrote: "Who is the the person who provided you with the response?" John Algeo provided with the response. He was kind enough to answer an email. David Blankenship From david-blankenship@mediaone.net Thu Sep 06 09:59:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david-blankenship@mediaone.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 16:59:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 52421 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 16:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 16:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 16:41:51 -0000 Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F035DAF24 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:41:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 03dgl (we-66-27-96-160.we.mediaone.net [66.27.96.160]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f86Gg8106062 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003701c136f2$d72b28c0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> To: Subject: Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:41:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "David Blankenship" Dallas wrote: "Have you had a opportunity to review what HPB had to say about Atlantis?" I have not yet had the opportunity. I do not currently own a copy, but I plan to purchase a copy. Forty years ago was when I read it and it got lost in all the moving since. I hope to join a study group when Wheaton again sponsors a newsletter study of it. I only recently joined the Theosophical Society. David Blankenship From DNisk98114@aol.com Thu Sep 06 11:27:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 18:27:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 10953 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 18:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 18:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r06.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.102) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 18:08:28 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id x.ad.ffeebe1 (2619); Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:08:20 EDT Subject: To whom it may concern To: bn-study@lists.lyris.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, bn-basic@lists.lyris.net, sd@blavatsky.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com I don't generally push any programs but with the onslaught of endless and excess routing information on postings this is a gem of a program that will clean all the excess out with a couple of clicks of the mouse button.(it does cost money but well worth it in our view) Clip Cache From dennw3k@earthlink.net Thu Sep 06 16:42:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dennw3k@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 6 Sep 2001 23:42:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 20469 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2001 23:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Sep 2001 23:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2001 23:42:09 -0000 Received: from 1cust242.tnt17.lax3.da.uu.net ([63.23.99.242] helo=u7k5a4) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15f8mf-00069I-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:42:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c13729$f8cf3340$f263173f@u7k5a4> To: References: <001101c134e9$907e38a0$06000007@we.mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:42:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Dennis Kier" So now Plate Tectonics are "IN". When I started reading about Atlantis, and things like that, over 50 years ago, those who believed in "Atlantis", and Plate Tectonics were called "Quacks", "Nuts", and worse. Maybe it will take another 50 years to change "Truth" back to a belief of "Atlantis", "Shambhalla", and the other places from the past that "Science" discounts today. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: David Blankenship To: Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 7:30 PM Subject: Theos-World Is Theosophy a Reveiled Truth? > I deleted the newsletter to make room for my incoming mail, but I did make a > copy of subscribing and unscribing. The email address is > questmag@theosmail.net. Subscribing will get you the current issue and > subsequent issues. It is put out by scientist who are theosophists. > > The scientist who talk about Atlantis said it was fanciful on HPB part and > that because of plate tectonics such a continent couldn't exist. The > scientist who talk about the age of man put it about six million years with > all the earlier ancestors. There currently two theories about the origin > birthplace. One is the popular out of Africa theory. And the other is > that Homo Sapiens originated simultaneously in different places around the > globe about 200,000 years ago from earlier men out of Africa. I hope I did > justice to the talk on man but it is from memory and it is a poor substitute > for the full articles. I suggest you subscribe and read for yourself what > they had to say. The first part is about a conference the had and the > articles follow. > > David Blankenship > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Sep 06 17:17:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 00:17:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 59070 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 00:17:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 00:17:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 00:17:24 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0050.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.50]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00322; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:16:39 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: RE: Theosophy a Received Truth Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:10:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Thursday, September 06, 2001 Dear Friends: The question is not so much as who "received" what. The question is: IS IT TRUE? There is forever a cycle of teaching and receiving. The Teacher / pupil equation cannot be eliminated. But the implication that there is "a revelation" requires to be additionally made valuable by the independent and assiduous work of the "pupil;" in proving what he received was right and true, and NOT a matter of unquestioning FAITH or of BELIEF. If Theosophy is a "belief" then the process of testing and checking it is a verification by a large number of independent inquirers who desire to know if it has value or is worthless. By this process it is transformed into knowledge and eventually into wisdom. The teachings of Theosophy will be found to fill important gaps in the discoveries and hypotheses built thereon by Science and Philosophy. The various word Religions have already settled their particular views in regard to Nature, God and Man. Theosophy suggests that an examination of all Religions, at their SOURCE, will revel a unity of teaching and of Ethics / Morality. The Mahatma in writing Mr. Sinnett observed at one time that either their philosophy was a true one or a "miracle" [of precipitation] would not set it right. Real proof was demanded in all cases. In the MAHATMA LETTERS on p. 144 (Barker's Edn.) we find: "...to show you how exact a science is occultism let me tell you that the means we avail ourselves of are all laid down for us in a code as old as humanity to the minutest detail, but everyone of us has to begin from the beginning, not from the end. Our laws are as immutable as those of Nature...we build our philosophy upon experiment and deduction...Learn first our laws and educate your perceptions, dear Brother. Control your involuntary powers and develop in the right direction your will...I would not refuse what I had a right to teach." M L 144 As to who should "receive" truth, the Mahatma wrote: " It is he alone who has the love of humanity at heart, who is capable of grasping thoroughly the idea of a practical regenerating Brotherhood who is entitled to the possession of our secrets. He alone, such a man--will never misuse his powers, as there will be no fear that he should turn them to selfish ends. A man who places not the good of mankind above his own good is not worthy of becoming our chela--he is not worth of becoming higher in his knowledge than his neighbour....The world has clouded the light of true knowledge, and selfishness will not allow its resurrection, for it excludes and will not recognize the whole fellowship of those who were born under the same immutable natural law." M L p. 252 In The SECRET DOCTRINE., Vol. I, pp 272-3 the process of study, verification and usage of ancient wisdom is fully described as one which the Great and ancient Lodge of Adepts always uses: The Ancient Source of Theosophy is thus described : "The SECRET DOCTRINE is the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages... the facts which have actually occupied countless generations of initiated seers and prophets to marshal, to set down and explain, in the bewildering series of evolutionary progress, are all recorded on a few pages of geometrical signs and glyphs. The flashing gaze of those seers has penetrated into the very kernel of matter, and recorded the soul of things there, where an ordinary profane, however learned, would have perceived but the external work of form... it is the uninterrupted record covering thousands of generations of Seers whose respective experiences were made to test and to verify the traditions passed orally by one early race to another, of the teachings of higher and exalted beings, who watched over the childhood of Humanity.... by checking, testing, and verifying in every department of nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great adepts...{men who have developed and perfected their physical, mental, psychic, and spiritual organizations to the utmost possible degree. No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by the visions--so obtained as to stand as independent evidence--of other adepts, and by centuries of experience." S D Vol. I pp. 272-3 If one desires to discover for one's self the value of the Theosophical system and its teachings, we need to start with the texts like the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) and the OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY and having read and made our notes we ought to begin the process of verifying. Best wishes, Dallas ====================== -----Original Message----- From: G------ S------r Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:31 AM To: Subject: Theosophy a "Received Truth" Christianity was "received" from Jesus, who "received" it from God. Buddhism was "received" from Buddha who "received" it from his spiritual lineage of buddhas. Taoism was "received" from Lao Tao, and so on. Modern Theosophy (cap T as opposed to the ancient theosophy with a small t, of which modern Theosophy is a subset, which was only "received" in pieces by different people and is still largely "occult") was "received" from H. P. Blavatsky who "received" it from her Masters. This seems pretty clear cut to me, and I think Tillet is correct. The idea of having a received truth is why lineages are so important. Jerry S. From ramadoss@infohwy.com Thu Sep 06 17:37:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 00:37:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 67829 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 00:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 00:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picard.bizchek.com) (208.210.50.206) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 00:37:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 22294 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 00:37:08 -0000 Received: from sa5399-111-39.stic.net (HELO infohwy.com) (216.198.62.40) by mail1.bizchek.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 00:37:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3B9815E7.EFF5B0E2@infohwy.com> Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 19:33:44 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World To whom it may concern References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: ramadoss@infohwy.com Good suggestion. Sometimes the routing information is very informative in that one can trace where the message is originating. This is very useful especially when subscribers use pseudonyms to hide behind them, which very likely makes them post sometimes messages which they would not do when they post under their own real names. Also when I read messages using the Netscape e-mail reader in the Netscape browser, I can select the option not to see all the routing information. My 0.02 mkr DNisk98114@aol.com wrote: > I don't generally push any programs but with the onslaught of endless and > excess routing information on postings this is a gem of a program that will > clean all the excess out with a couple of clicks of the mouse button.(it does > cost money but well worth it in our view) > Clip Cache > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Sep 07 08:02:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 15:02:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 17393 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 14:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 14:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 14:52:18 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0006.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.6]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02632; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 07:52:01 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and the Uiverse in Evolution Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 07:45:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Friday, September 07, 2001 Dear Fadi: Many thanks for the explanation. I am not a student of Kabala or Hebrew. I had heard through Theosophy of the addition of the vowel (?) points and it says there that the words became "fixed.´ I assumed that was an attempt to create an orthodoxy by materializing the meanings. I did not know the Arabic script had also been "dotted." I have always had so far to rely on translations of the Koran, and since I did not know the original, I looked at several, so as to compare the versions. As to vowels I am familiar with the following variants: I will use the English letters to try to express those: There may be some overlap as shades of pronunciation can be expressed using several combinations. (I do not known the modern phonetic code, so will not attempt to use that. If I used French, I would put them in a slightly different way of course: A = a, ah, aa, am, aou E = eh, uh, ee, I = ih, ee, ai, O = oh, oou, aou, U = uh, ou, um, you, Y = yuh, yea, yoh, yau, And so on. But that is only interesting, and of significance to scholars, rather than to philosophers who seek behind words and phrases for the meanings that words and sentences convey. As to your familiarizing yourself with Theosophy, After reading (studying the ideas) in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB), you might look at ISIS UNVEILED . ISIS UNVEILED (1877) was Mme. Blavatsky's first book and is designed to remind the West of the unseen, unknown and hidden laws and rules of Nature. It was something the developing Science in the West was overlooking under the general idea that folk-lore, mythology, theogony, was all "superstition" and had no deep or continuous meaning. What it does is to illustrate these hidden aspects of Nature and show how they fit into and support the physical side of things, as for instance mathematics supports chemistry, physics, engineering astro-physics, biology, etc... Without mathematics the values of substances and materials could not be related accurately in terms of eight, measure, pressure, inter-action, heat, movement, electrical and magnetic affinities, etc.. and finally engineering and invention which have provided us with so many mechanical contrivances -- but have not provided us with the ethical or moral increments of meaning so necessary to make all applications beneficial rather than the arms of warfare and abuse of humans by other humans with greater knowledge of material applications. What then has Theosophy provided: The idea of an electro-magnetic base (astral matter) of forces powers and energies on which the physical molecules and structures are arranged. This is "invisible Nature." It is deemed to be longer lasting and have greater potency than the physical, visible and tangible side. Being invisible it is not usually seen by the average person to exist. Justice, the return of psychic and mental impressions generated respectively by desire and thought to those who originate them. Using the Sanskrit term KARMA, (meaning action and reaction) this idea is said to be a basic one in nature and to apply uniformly everywhere. It applies to humans who have free-choice, thought, virtue as guide ideas or tools to use for their own progress. Thus, Theosophy considers that Law and Laws rule all things. There is reciprocity, harmony, response, and inevitable response from every being in nature, from the atom to the Sun. The effect of this concept is to view Religions and Philosophies as originally the expressions of these truths, and it is those who have sustained and maintained them after the death of the Prophet or reformer who have unfortunately made them rigid and dogmatic. The evolution of Man is the evolution and use of the thinking mind. The brain is an instrument of matter sensitive to thought, will and feeling (emotion). It says that the whole of nature shows to the student adequate evidence to demonstrate that evolution is implicit in the existence and development of all beings. Not from the physical point of view but from the spiritual, psychic and astral bases -- of which the physical is the final expression. Man is a combination of three aspects of nature: 1. The SPIRIT (or wisdom of God), 2. the Mind or the ability of independent thought and feeling , And, 3. the physical material of which all "visible, tangible" forms consist. Intelligence, awareness and consciousness are said to be universal and the evidence drawn from Nature shows they interact everywhere. Therefore in the human kingdom one finds evidence of all levels of intelligence, from the "savage" and the "ignorant" to the Sage and the Prophet. Spirit pervades the World and the Universe and it gives "matter" the innate urge to learn, improve and practice virtue (acting according to Law). After ISIS UNVEILED followed many articles that further illustrated and explained these ideas. (1879 - 1891) In 1888 The SECRET DOCTRINE was published which served to draw together the scattered idea and unify them under the two great schemes in nature: The Re-creation of the physical universe after a long period of rest, and 2, the evolution of man up o the present. The final publication the VOICE OF THE SILENCE was written to indicate the path of universal virtue that lead a man if he adopts it to the level of a Sage, or Prophet. I hope this may prove of some use to your consideration. Best wishes, Dallas ============================ -----Original Message----- From: F--i M-----r Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 2:24 PM To: Subject: RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and Judaism Dear Dallas, Thank you for sharing your point of view, and I can't but agree with you in what you said. As for reading about Theosophy, I have already started reading "The Key to Theosophy. I also have in mind to read "Secret Doctrine" afterwards, but I'm not sure when I'll finish, because I won't have enough time and this is why I joined the list, to learn about Theosophy little-by-little and in a steady pace (almost). Thank you all for the discussions. In what concerns dotting, I would like to add something. You mentioned the dotting of the Hebrew scriptures, to my knowledgs dots in Hebrew serve a different purpose that those in Arabic. According to what I have been told they are similar to something we call "movements" in Arabic. These are signs that can be added to letters to convey the way they should be pronounced. These are four basic signs. If you have the letter 'f' for example the first three would give you 'fa', 'fo' and 'fi', while the fourth would emphasize that the letter is a silent one 'f' only. These movements *can* change the intended meaning, but in general you should be able to infer them from context. In written Arabic they are almost never used, unless the meaning would not be clear. Hope this was helpful. Fadi On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 05:09:42PM -0700, Dallas TenBroeck wrote: > Dear Fadi: > > I understood your objective. I am familiar with some aspects of > Islam and the Koran as I spent over 35 years in India and have > some very old and good friends who are Muslims. I also have > traveled in many Asian countries where Islam is practised, and I > can say that I have uniformly received the kindest treatment. > > I am also eager to learn and extend the frontiers of my > understanding. We are akin in this. > > I think that the "true Path" is walked by all sincere persons of > any age, nation, faith, etc... and that there is a universal > ethical basis for all of us. > CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Sep 07 16:20:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 23:20:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 16663 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 23:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 23:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 23:20:08 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool1013.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.155.248]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28775; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:19:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:13:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Friend: I would like to offer the idea that we are all capable of erasing ignorance or even untruths by the light of reasonableness and a knowledge of that which is impersonal and universal. think the answer is interior to us all as a Spirit/Soul. That is unchangeable. But the Soul is also both the HIGHER MIND Buddhi) and the Lower Mind ( Kama-Manas) or desires and passions being given a rational assistance. We have to choose between them. We are independent of all false notions or even those aspects of Karma that may be returning our errors to us for adjustment. We have to restore any broken harmony. As eliminate ignorance we replace it with proven facts. Cannot those be called Truth, or Wisdom? The fact that they are invariable ought to make us see that it is we who are trying to measure up to an understanding of them, rather than reframing endlessly the errors we made in the past. You are quite correct in surmising that the Mahatmas have the power to instantly know when a proposition is either right or wrong. We are here and now developing that kind of perception. Best wishes, Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Enter your name here Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:26 PM To: Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Is there an engram erasing ray the masters use or teach oneto use on themselves. Half kidding ! Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Mauri To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:42 PM Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. Elimination of "engrams." > > Responding to: > > Subject: [bn-study] Re: WISDOM through BENEVOLENCE. > Elimination of "engrams." > Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:02:35 EDT > From: LeonMaurer@aol.com > Reply-To: study@blavatsky.net > > ============ > From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Sep 07 16:20:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 23:20:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 17717 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 23:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 23:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 23:20:45 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool1013.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.155.248]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00085; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:20:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: WHAT IS TRUTH -- IS IT AN ENDLESS QUEST ? Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:13:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Friday, September 07, 2001 Re: What is Truth? Is it an endless quest ? Dear Friend If you wish to look at this metaphysically, then indeed you have an almost irresolvable paradox. If you take Karma and Reincarnation into account and the concept that the REAL MAN is an eternal Monad the paradox unravels: An immortal being is not concerned with time as he uses many bodies in which to become "perfect." He seeks to help Nature equilibrate existence and assist in the process of general evolution. This is brotherhood in action. It is also service. An example of this kind of sublime SERVICE is offered to us to consider in SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp. 207-210. There the nature, function and devotion of a Planetary Spirit is described. The SPIRIT (ATMAN) which is universal (as MAHATMA) already exists as a basis in every smallest aspect of Nature and also in Man as the ATMA is the base for the 6 other principles which extend between that SPIRIT and the MATTER of which our physical body is a representative. Our Consciousness is ONE and it pierces up and down the 7 planes of being and serves to uphold the memory of the Souls' experience on any plane and in every state. The vehicle for the consciousness on any plane or any state of matter depends on the effort made by the Individual to refine and purify the matter that he uses there in each state or plane. This effort marks the evolution and progress of Nature and the important service that each human performs in this process. It is the process of lifting the whole mass of "matter" up to the condition, nature and stature of CONSCIOUS GOD-HOOD. The problem is now identified. How does an embodied Mind, forced to use a brain of matter, view the period and condition of living beyond the birth and death of this personality it is now living in.? It becomes clear that the Personality of this present existence has limits to its present views, but no limits to its potentials. It is also clear that theoretically the INDIVIDUALITY (ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS) periodically illuminates with its wisdom the Personality when this latter seeks for DIVINE WISDOM. All true wisdom comes from within. It is one with the UNIVERSAL WISDOM or the great LAWS OF KARMA, EVOLUTION AND ETERNAL LIFE. H.P.Blavatsky wrote an article WHAT IS TRUTH ? in which she makes clear many things. Let me extract a few quotations from that to illustrate: =================================================== WHAT IS TRUTH ? Truth is the Voice of Nature and of Time-- Truth is the startling monitor within us-- Naught is without it, it comes from the stars, The golden sun, and every breeze that blows. . . . --W. THOMPSON BACON WHAT is Truth?" asked Pilate of one who, if the claims of the Christian Church are even approximately correct, must have known it. But He kept silent... But the same question stands open from the days of Socrates and Pilate down to our own age of wholesale negation: is there such a thing as absolute truth in the hands of any one party or man? Reason answers, "there cannot be." There is no room for absolute truth upon any subject whatsoever, in a world as finite and conditioned as man is himself. But there are relative truths, and we have to make the best we can of them. In every age there have been Sages who had mastered the absolute and yet could teach but relative truths. For none yet...has, or could have given out, the whole and the final truth to another man, for every one of us has to find that (to him) final knowledge in himself. As no two minds can be absolutely alike, each has to receive the supreme illumination through itself, according to its capacity, and from no human light. The greatest adept living can reveal of the Universal Truth only so much as the mind he is impressing it upon can assimilate, and no more... The sun is one, but its beams are numberless; and the effects produced are beneficent or maleficent, according to the nature and constitution of the objects they shine upon. Polarity is universal, but the polarizer lies in our own consciousness. In proportion as our consciousness is elevated towards absolute truth, so do we men assimilate it more or less absolutely. But man's consciousness again, is only the sunflower of the earth. Longing for the warm ray, the plant can only turn to the sun, and move round and round in following the course of the unreachable luminary: its roots keep it fast to the soil, and half its life is passed in the shadow. . . . Still each of us can relatively reach the Sun of Truth even on this earth, and assimilate its warmest and most direct rays, however differentiated they may become after their long journey through the physical particles in space. To achieve this, there are two methods. On the physical plane we may use our mental polariscope; and, analyzing the properties of each ray, choose the purest. On the plane of spirituality, to reach the Sun of Truth we must work in dead earnest for the development of our higher nature. We know that by paralyzing gradually within ourselves the appetites of the lower personality, and thereby deadening the voice of the purely physiological mind--that mind which depends upon, and is inseparable from, its medium or vehicle, the organic brain--the animal man in us may make room for the spiritual; and once aroused from its latent state, the highest spiritual senses and perceptions grow in us in proportion, and develop pari passu with the "divine man." This is what the great adepts, the Yogis in the East and the Mystics in the West, have always done and are still doing. But we also know, that with a few exceptions, no man of the world, no materialist, will ever believe in the existence of such adepts, or even in the possibility of such a spiritual or psychic development. "The (ancient) fool hath said in his heart, There is no God"; the modern says, "There are no adepts on earth, they are figments of your diseased fancy." ... Such articles as our editorials, ...are not intended for Materialists. They are addressed to Theosophists, or readers who know in their hearts that Masters of Wisdom do exist: and, though absolute truth is not on earth and has to be searched for in higher regions, that there still are, ...some things that are not even dreamt of in Western philosophy. It thus follows that, though "general abstract truth is the most precious of all blessings" for many of us, as it was for Rousseau, we have, meanwhile, to be satisfied with relative truths. In sober fact, we are a poor set of mortals at best, ever in dread before the face of even a relative truth, lest it should devour ourselves and our petty little preconceptions along with us. As for an absolute truth, most of us are as incapable of seeing it as of reaching the moon on a bicycle. Firstly, because absolute truth is as immovable as the mountain of Mahomet, which refused to disturb itself for the prophet, so that he had to go to it himself. And we have to follow his example if we would approach it even at a distance. Secondly, because the kingdom of absolute truth is not of this world, while we are too much of it. And thirdly, because notwithstanding that in the poet's fancy man is ... in reality a sorry bundle of anomalies and paradoxes, an empty wind bag inflated with his own importance, with contradictory and easily influenced opinions. He is at once an arrogant and a weak creature, which, though in constant dread of some authority, terrestrial or celestial, will yet... . . . like an angry ape, Play such fantastic tricks before high Heaven As make the angels weep. Now, since truth is a multifaced jewel, the facets of which it is impossible to perceive all at once; and since, again, no two men, however anxious to discern truth, can see even one of those facets alike, what can be done to help them to perceive it? As physical man, limited and trammeled from every side by illusions, cannot reach truth by the light of his terrestrial perceptions, we say--develop in you the inner knowledge. From the time when the Delphic oracle said to the enquirer "Man, know thyself," no greater or more important truth was ever taught. Without such perception, man will remain ever blind to even many a relative, let alone absolute, truth. Man has to know himself, i.e., acquire the inner perceptions which never deceive, before he can master any absolute truth. Absolute truth is the symbol of Eternity, and no finite mind can ever grasp the eternal, hence, no truth in its fullness can ever dawn upon it. To reach the state during which man sees and senses it, we have to paralyze the senses of the external man of clay. This is a difficult task, we may be told, and most people will, at this rate, prefer to remain satisfied with relative truths, no doubt. But to approach even terrestrial truths requires, first of all, love of truth for its own sake, for otherwise no recognition of it will follow. And who loves truth in this age for its own sake? How many of us are prepared to search for, accept, and carry it out, in the midst of a society in which anything that would achieve success has to be built on appearances, not on reality, on self-assertion, not on intrinsic value? We are fully aware of the difficulties in the way of receiving truth. The fair heavenly maiden descends only on ...the soil of an impartial, unprejudiced mind, illuminated by pure Spiritual Consciousness; and both are truly rare dwellers in civilized lands... How profound the remark made by Byron, that "truth is a gem that is found at a great depth; whilst on the surface of this world all things are weighed by the false scales of custom," is best known to those who are forced to live in the stifling atmosphere of such social conventionalism, and who, even when willing and anxious to learn, dare not accept the truths they long for, for fear of the ferocious Moloch called Society... And now, having passed in review all this, pause and reflect, and then name... that exceptional spot on the globe, where TRUTH is the honoured guest, and LIE and SHAM the ostracized outcasts? YOU CANNOT. Nor can any one else, unless he is prepared and determined to add his mite to the mass of falsehood that reigns supreme in every department of national and social life. "Truth!" cried Carlyle, "truth, though the heavens crush me for following her, no falsehood, though a whole celestial Lubberland were the prize of Apostasy." Noble words, these. But how many think, and how many will dare to speak as Carlyle did...? Does not the gigantic appalling majority prefer to a man the "paradise of Do-nothings,"... of heartless selfishness? It is this majority that recoils terror-stricken before the most shadowy outline of every new and unpopular truth... SELFISHNESS, the first-born of Ignorance, and the fruit of the teaching which asserts that for every newly-born infant a new soul, separate and distinct from the Universal Soul, is "created"--this Selfishness is the impassable wall between the personal Self and Truth. It is the prolific mother of all human vices, Lie being born out of the necessity for dissembling, and Hypocrisy out of the desire to mask Lie. ...SELFISHNESS kills every noble impulse in our natures, and is the one deity, fearing no faithlessness or desertion from its votaries. Hence, we see it reign supreme in the world and in so-called fashionable society. As a result, we live...in this god of darkness under his trinitarian aspect of Sham, Humbug, and Falsehood, called RESPECTABILITY. Is this Truth and Fact, or is it slander? Turn whichever way you will, and you find, from the top of the social ladder to the bottom, deceit and hypocrisy at work for dear Self's sake, in every nation as in every individual. But nations, by tacit agreement, have decided that selfish motives in politics shall be called "noble national aspiration, patriotism," etc.; and the citizen views it in his family circle as "domestic virtue." Nevertheless, Selfishness, whether it breeds desire for aggrandizement of territory, or competition in commerce at the expense of one's neighbour, can never be regarded as a virtue. We see smooth-tongued DECEIT and BRUTE FORCE... called Diplomacy, and we call it by its right name. Because the diplomat bows low before these two pillars of national glory and politics, and ...gets by deceit what he cannot obtain by force--shall we applaud him? A diplomat's qualification--"dexterity or skill in securing advantages"--for one's own country at the expense of other countries, can hardly be achieved by speaking truth, but verily by a wily and deceitful tongue; and, therefore...a living, and an evident LIE...Every class of Society lives on LIE, and would fall to pieces without it... Society of the middle classes is honeycombed with false smiles, false talk, and mutual treachery. For the majority religion has become a thin tinsel veil thrown over the corpse of spiritual faith... Even Science, once the anchor of the salvation of Truth, has ceased to be the temple of naked Fact. Almost to a man the Scientists strive now only to force upon their colleagues and the public the acceptance of some personal hobby, of some new-fangled theory, which will shed lustre on their name and fame. A Scientist is as ready to suppress damaging evidence against a current scientific hypothesis in our times, as a missionary in heathen-land, or a preacher at home, to persuade his congregation that modern geology is a lie, and evolution but vanity and vexation of spirit.... Lie has spread to such extent--supported as it is by custom and conventionalities--that even chronology forces people to lie... Where then is even relative truth to be found? If, so far back as ...Democritus, she appeared to him under the form of a goddess lying at the very bottom of a well, so deep that it gave but little hope for her release... This is why, perhaps, all the votaries of hidden truths are forthwith set down as lunatics. However it may be, [the theosophist] will hold to fact, pure and simple, trying to proclaim truth whensoever found, and under no cowardly mask. Bigotry and intolerance may be regarded as orthodox and sound policy, and the encouraging of social prejudices and personal hobbies at the cost of truth, as a wise course to pursue in order to secure success ... ...Theosophy is divine knowledge, and knowledge is truth; every true fact, every sincere word are thus part and parcel of Theosophy. One who is skilled in divine alchemy, or even approximately blessed with the gift of the perception of truth, will find and extract it from an erroneous as much as from a correct statement. However small the particle of gold lost in a ton of rubbish, it is the noble metal still, and worthy of being dug out even at the price of some extra trouble. As has been said, it is often as useful to know what a thing is not, as to learn what it is. [The theosophical philosophy] offers as many facets of the One universal jewel ...and says...: "Choose you this day whom ye will serve: whether the gods that were on the other side of the flood which submerged man's reasoning powers and divine knowledge, or the gods ...of custom and social falsehood, or again, the Lord of (the highest) Self--the bright destroyer of the dark power of illusion?" Surely it is that philosophy that tends to diminish, instead of adding to, the sum of human misery, which is the best... Theosophy allows a hearing and a fair chance to all. It deems no views--if sincere--entirely destitute of truth. It respects thinking men, to whatever class of thought they may belong. Ever ready to oppose ideas and views which can only create confusion without benefiting philosophy, it leaves their expounders personally to believe in whatever they please, and does justice to their ideas when they are good... To sum up the idea, with regard to absolute and relative truth...Outside a certain highly spiritual and elevated state of mind, during which Man is at one with the UNIVERSAL MIND--he can get nought on earth but relative truth, or truths, from whatsoever philosophy or religion. Were even the goddess who dwells at the bottom of the well to issue from her place of confinement, she could give man no more than he can assimilate. Meanwhile, every one can sit near that well--the name of which is KNOWLEDGE--and gaze into its depths in the hope of seeing Truth's fair image reflected, at least, on the dark waters. This, however, as remarked by Richter, presents a certain danger. Some truth, to be sure, may be occasionally reflected as in a mirror on the spot we gaze upon, and thus reward the patient student. But, adds the German thinker, "I have heard that some philosophers in seeking for Truth, to pay homage to her, have seen their own image in the water and adored it instead." ...It is to avoid such a calamity--one that has befallen every founder of a religious or philosophical school--that [Theosophy] offers...only those truths which they find reflected in their own personal brains. They offer the public a wide choice, and refuse to show bigotry and intolerance, which are the chief landmarks on the path of Sectarianism... This, however, only ...as regards the merely intellectual aspect of philosophical truths. Concerning the deeper spiritual, and one may almost say religious, beliefs, no true Theosophist ought to degrade these by subjecting them to public discussion, but ought rather to treasure and hide them deep within the sanctuary of his innermost soul. Such beliefs and doctrines should never be rashly given out, as they risk unavoidable profanation by the rough handling of the indifferent and the critical. Nor ought they to be embodied in any publication except as hypotheses offered to the consideration of the thinking portion of the public. Theosophical truths, when they transcend a certain limit of speculation, had better remain concealed from public view, for the "evidence of things not seen" is no evidence save to him who sees, hears, and senses it. It is not to be dragged outside the 'Holy of Holies," the temple of the impersonal divine Ego, or the indwelling SELF. For, while every fact outside its perception can, as we have shown, be, at best, only a relative truth, a ray from the absolute truth can reflect itself only in the pure mirror of its own flame--our highest SPIRITUAL CONSCIOUSNESS. And how can the darkness (of illusion) comprehend the LIGHT that shineth in it? [ Extracted from H P B'S article: WHAT IS TRUTH ? "Lucifer" Feb 1888 ] ========================= Best wishes, Dallas ============================= -----Original Message----- From: G--i C----i [ Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:23 PM To: Subject: Re: Light and TRUTH What then is Lie ? Dear Peter, I would like to explore this with you: After all, TRUTH is the basis of Theosophy and it says that there is no Religion Higher than Truth'. To me this means Religion (meaning Returning To) can reach ultimately TRUTH. Theosophy also says No one has the Entire Truth. That means that even the Brotherhood is deeply looking into the Truth. So, if we are exploring we are in good company. So, it seems that Truth is every thing, so there is no opposite (False) to it. Obviously, this Truth is not the same as truth / false of every day usage. However, 'I believe' falls into the second category and the is the work of brain. That is not to say belief is not important. If the belief is high enough in to Spirituality we get to the area of Faith. If you have Faith of the size of Muster Seed ....and so on. Belief of our every day usage is less fulfilling and it changes according to what we know now and is influenced by everybody around us. So, they, for me, fall in the following categories: Truth, Faith, Belief (Belief, Beliefs, Nonbeliefs), Theist (Atheist), unconnected to Life. Please comment G--i CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Sep 07 16:21:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 23:21:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16843 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 23:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 23:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 23:19:59 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool1013.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.155.248]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28555; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:19:50 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: About the Mother of Light to Ramprakash. (Moscow) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Friend: I think the answer is interior to us all as a Spirit/Soul. That is unchangeable. But the Soul is also both the HIGHER MIND Buddhi) and the Lower Mind ( Kama-Manas) or desires and passions being given a rational assistance. As we slough off ignorance we replace it with proven facts. Cannot those be called Truth, or Wisdom? The fact that they are invariable ought to make us see that it is we who are trying to measure up to an understanding of them, rather than reframing endlessly the errors we made in the past. Dallas -----Original Message----- From: my e--mail Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 6:34 PM To: Subject: About the ONE Light of TRUTH Could it be that truth evolves, with you? Your intellect, coupled with good knowledge, yields enlightenment after enlightenment [yeah, epiphanies galore] None of us are ever going to learn too much truth. And recognizing it [truth and its whereabouts]becomes less difficult with increased knowledge. My truth is not the same as yours, since we have individuality [my experiences are not exactly your experiences]. But the beauty lies in the fact that we can all compliment each other with knowledge, and keep shaping and evolving what is true to our lives. BUT...Once it is possible to trust yourself, have confidence, then your "want to believe" turns into "believing in yourself is truth." Hope that made sense. =o) cut From johnb@quickinfo.net Fri Sep 07 19:46:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 8 Sep 2001 02:46:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 23646 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2001 02:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2001 02:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2001 02:46:19 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id S3SVCPPJ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 20:46:18 -0600 Message-ID: <044a01c13811$9b562c80$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: <20010906133118.8168.qmail@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy a Received Truth Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 20:54:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" Gerald Schueler wrote, "Christianity was "received" from Jesus, who "received" it from God. Buddhism was "received" from Buddha who "received" it from his spiritual lineage of buddhas. Taoism was "received" from Lao Tao, and so on. Modern Theosophy ... was "received" from H. P. Blavatsky who "received" it from her Masters." Some member of the Brotherhood of Adepts has been the founder of every major religion. They are also involved in the maintenance and directing of those religions. As examples, consider HS Olcott and Annie Besant, both chelas of Morya. Olcott became a Buddhist, and he spent years in Ceylon, travelling by oxcart and teaching Buddhism. He wrote a Buddhist catechism, and founded more than 400 Buddhist schools. In Ceylon he was honored by a national holiday and many statues. He was also a unifying force in Buddhism worldwide, for he sponsored the first convention of the two major branches, the Mahayana and the Hinayana. In Siam, he was once asked how he knew so much about Buddhism. He answered that he didn't, but that he knew Theosophy. To understand this, you must realize that to him, Theosophy meant the teachings of the Adepts. Olcott is regarded as an important figure in the Buddhist Reform Movement. Annie Besant had a similar effect on Hinduism and India. Ghandi said of her that she had awakened India from its deep slumber. She became a Hindu and travelled India by train, lecturing to crowds of 5000 - 10,000, teaching them their own religion, which many hardly knew. At the time, Hinduism had a collective inferiority complex. They were governed by the British, and many young people who wanted to get ahead were converting to Christianity. When Ghandi was a young lawyer in South Africa, he always kept two pictures on his wall - Jesus and Annie Besant. So I think maybe he also was converting. She founded Hindu University, which quickly became the largest in India, and also Central Hindu College, where young Nehru was educated. She also initiated him into the TS. She served a term as President of the Indian National Congress, succeeded there by Nehru. (Ghandi, wearing the traditional dhoti, was not a congressman, but was often present on the platform, as a respected guest) She owned a newspaper, which she used to promote Indian self-rule. In this newspaper, she refered to Ghandi as Mahatma. This is a term she normally reserved for the Great Ones, and she was the first to call him by this title. Since Morya was the Master of both Olcott and Annie Besant, there is a strong inplication that he is very involved in the maintenance of these religions. From etvionbb@netvision.net.il Sat Sep 08 04:09:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: etvionbb@netvision.net.il X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 8 Sep 2001 11:09:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 75103 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2001 11:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2001 11:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgw2.netvision.net.il) (194.90.1.9) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2001 11:09:52 -0000 Received: from LocalHost (ras2-p3.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.151.3]) by mailgw2.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11342 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 14:12:33 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <000b01c13928$6f14e540$0397003e@LocalHost> To: Subject: Fw: quotes: PERFECT MASTERS IN THE WEST? Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:09:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Etzion Becker" ----- Original Message ----- From: Shar Wiseman To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: quotes: PERFECT MASTERS IN THE WEST? > PERFECT MASTERS IN THE WEST? > > Don E. Stevens > > > Just as the first plane within Creation was a border between > the physical and the subtle, so the fourth plane in turn is the > border between the subtle and the mental. Here the individual > has at his beck and call infinite energy, and the making and > destruction of worlds and universes is within his capabilities. > The problem is that the moral base of judgment is still not > developed to the point of discriminating between the healthy > and the undesirable. It is a great temptation to such an > individual to use these powers for all types of self- > aggrandizement, controlling others, even wreaking one's > revenge. > > This is the time when the presence of the Perfect Masters in > Creation is necessary, largely to prevent the type of > catastrophe that such a fourth plane master can precipitate. > The Perfect Master is one with God, and therefore knows all > that passes within Creation and therefore can control the fourth > plane master if he verges on effecting a major catastrophe to > Creation. > > Nevertheless there are several types of monstrously unwise > actions that the Perfect Ones do not guard against. These can > result in the fourth plane master crashing down and regressing > all the way back to the stone stage of consciousness. Baba > gave examples of such catastrophic action as the killing for > lust and using the powers to satisfy one's craving for fame. > Why the Perfect Masters prevent physical catastrophes to > Creation but not the more personal cravings on the fourth plane > has not been explained. Perhaps this passes into the domain > of personal choice and testing which seems a constant > occurrence on the spiritual Path. > > Once the fourth plane is passed, the aspirant arrives at the fifth, > which is that of the saints and is fully in the mental or third > sphere. Here there is no longer a temptation to use the > universal powers for personal reasons. The moral base of action > prevails, and the soul is protected from any further possibility > of a great fall. Even so, there is still another fact in this area > that is often distressing to the Western mentality. This is that > the saint may be either a warm and loving individual, or a fiery > and chastising person. Both are equally recognized as being > truly saints. The nature of God is all-inclusive, and Godliness > is not necessarily at all the discarding of all that we regard as > being negative and the conservation of all we feel to be pure > and loving. Rather, it is the equilibrating of the opposites and > surpassing them. > > Saints are frequently utilized by the Perfect Ones in helping the > ongoing of other human beings in their quest for God. This > would lead one to believe that they are often or even always > included in the spiritual hierarchy which performs duties in the > spiritual quest. > > Still in the mental sphere, the sixth plane is characterized by > the aspirant seeing God in all that surrounds him. God is > literally everywhere. All who come in contact with a sixth plane > saint benefit by that contact. Hence the tradition in the Far > East of trying to be in the company of a very advanced soul, > even though that person may live in filth and act in a manner > incomprehensible to the logical mind. His spiritual greatness > is sensed rather than proven. > > Here it should be remarked that the usage of the term "mental" > for the third sphere has little to do with logic and reason, or > even with being reasonable. In fact, individuals resident on this > plane are more often than not quite unreasonable in their > actions. They see through to the heart of matters, and their > actions are designed to act on those heart matters. This they > do by a sort of balancing out of forces that are not at all > apparent to the logical mind bound up in daily physical events. > > One needs to recall that it is in the mental body of each > individual that is found the storage mechanism for the memories > of all incidents that have ever happened in the long history of > evolution of each individual. Such "permanent" storage is > possible because the "stuff' of the mental body is far finer than > that of the physical body, and therefore not susceptible to the > wear which is characteristic of physical objects. For this reason > the mental body goes on as if forever while different physical > bodies are adopted, worn out, discarded and the process > repeated many, many times. The subtle body that exists in the > second or subtle sphere has a comparable longevity. For this > reason it is true that "as one sows, so shall one reap," as the > permanent storage record exists within oneself. > > Then, somewhere, sometime, in some manner, events occur > which precipitate the sixth plane Master into the seventh, > which is that of God-Realization. Meher Baba often repeats > that this leap is greater than the total of all the previous leaps > from one plane to another. In fact, he says the difference is > infinite, and that it can only be accomplished through the > intercession of a Perfect One, in other words an individual who > has already made the jump. > > As a matter of interest in this regard, when on his visit to > America in 1956 Meher Baba advised a small group one day > that the West has now arrived generally at the spiritual level > necessary to sustain the development of Perfect Masters, and > that they would be increasingly found in Western countries > from this time. > > The one final elucidation offered in this area is the fact that the > majority of individuals who achieve Realization drop their > bodies almost at once. However, there are exceptions by > individuals who have chosen freely to remain in Creation for > some time afterwards to help others along the path. The > statistic is that there are always 56 of these in the world at all > times, and of this number, seven have gone on to become > reintegrated into consciousness of the physical world about > them. Of these, five function as the Perfect Masters in charge > of overseeing Creation and also guarding against the type of > accident that for instance a fourth Plane master might > precipitate. The five Perfect Masters oversee the plans for > Creation set out by the Christ Avatar, and when they precipitate > his advent each seven hundred to fourteen hundred years, they > retire at once from their duties, and the Avatar assumes the > complete direction of Creation during his life in the physical > body. > > Thus goes the story of the Whim and its far-reaching > consequences. In fact, all of Creation is the outcome of the > surging of the whim of God to know His divinity consciously. > > > >From MEHER BABA, THE AWAKENER OF THE AGE, by > Don E. Stevens, Pages 181 - 184, Copyright 1999 by D. E. > Stevens, Published by Companion Books > > From alpha@dircon.co.uk Sat Sep 08 07:42:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: alpha@dircon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 8 Sep 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 54837 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2001 14:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2001 14:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost2.dircon.co.uk) (194.112.32.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2001 14:41:28 -0000 Received: from default (th-en137-077.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.55.77]) by mailhost2.dircon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA48322 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:41:25 +0100 (BST) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Theosophy a Received Truth Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:43:49 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <044a01c13811$9b562c80$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Tony" <<>> Can we really draw this conclusion? Do the Masters subject us to their will? Olcott and Annie Besant were free to do what they will, although it is said that Annie Besant was to some extent under the will of Chakravati. The Mahatmas make it clear that religion is the cause of two thirds of the worlds evil (see Mahatma Letters). Olcott made it clear that when they (HPB and Olcott) took Pansil, it was to Buddhi that they were referring, rather than the exoteric religion of Buddhism. Tony -----Original Message----- From: John Beers [mailto:johnb@quickinfo.net] Sent: 8 September 2001 3:55 am To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy a Received Truth Gerald Schueler wrote, "Christianity was "received" from Jesus, who "received" it from God. Buddhism was "received" from Buddha who "received" it from his spiritual lineage of buddhas. Taoism was "received" from Lao Tao, and so on. Modern Theosophy ... was "received" from H. P. Blavatsky who "received" it from her Masters." Some member of the Brotherhood of Adepts has been the founder of every major religion. They are also involved in the maintenance and directing of those religions. As examples, consider HS Olcott and Annie Besant, both chelas of Morya. Olcott became a Buddhist, and he spent years in Ceylon, travelling by oxcart and teaching Buddhism. He wrote a Buddhist catechism, and founded more than 400 Buddhist schools. In Ceylon he was honored by a national holiday and many statues. He was also a unifying force in Buddhism worldwide, for he sponsored the first convention of the two major branches, the Mahayana and the Hinayana. In Siam, he was once asked how he knew so much about Buddhism. He answered that he didn't, but that he knew Theosophy. To understand this, you must realize that to him, Theosophy meant the teachings of the Adepts. Olcott is regarded as an important figure in the Buddhist Reform Movement. Annie Besant had a similar effect on Hinduism and India. Ghandi said of her that she had awakened India from its deep slumber. She became a Hindu and travelled India by train, lecturing to crowds of 5000 - 10,000, teaching them their own religion, which many hardly knew. At the time, Hinduism had a collective inferiority complex. They were governed by the British, and many young people who wanted to get ahead were converting to Christianity. When Ghandi was a young lawyer in South Africa, he always kept two pictures on his wall - Jesus and Annie Besant. So I think maybe he also was converting. She founded Hindu University, which quickly became the largest in India, and also Central Hindu College, where young Nehru was educated. She also initiated him into the TS. She served a term as President of the Indian National Congress, succeeded there by Nehru. (Ghandi, wearing the traditional dhoti, was not a congressman, but was often present on the platform, as a respected guest) She owned a newspaper, which she used to promote Indian self-rule. In this newspaper, she refered to Ghandi as Mahatma. This is a term she normally reserved for the Great Ones, and she was the first to call him by this title. Since Morya was the Master of both Olcott and Annie Besant, there is a strong inplication that he is very involved in the maintenance of these religions. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Sep 08 09:44:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 8 Sep 2001 16:44:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 78738 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2001 16:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2001 16:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2001 16:44:38 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0287.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.153.32]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23414; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:44:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Violet flame...? Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:37:49 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Friday, September 07, 2001 Re: Mitigating Karma Dear Friend: I know of no teaching or comment by H.P.Blavatsky in connection with a violet flame erasing Karma. Consider that Theosophy is common sense. It does not indulge in miracles or the breaking of Nature's laws -- which is implied -- if I understand the question rightly. Karma can only be erased by the individual reversing some evil tendency that he/she set in motion earlier and by making as full a restitution as possible direct to the party that was harmed. No prayer or supposed intercession works. Does that sound reasonable? If a person knows that he is doing wrong or has done wrong, then the only valid and courageous part to play now is restitution. Any further hiding the fault, through fear of suffering is what I would call a cowardly attitude. Let me attach below a copy of the APHORISM ON KARMA which will help us all to understand it. Best wishes, Dallas ========== QUOTE ================ Judge APHORISMS ON KARMA (1) There is no Karma unless there is a being to make it or feel its effects.[PARA](2) Karma is the adjustment of effects flowing from causes, during which the being upon whom and through whom that adjustment is effected experiences pain or pleasure.[PARA](3) Karma is an undeviating and unerring tendency in the Universe to restore equilibrium, and it operates incessantly.[PARA](4) The apparent stoppage of this restoration to equilibrium is due to the necessary adjustment of disturbance at some other spot, place, or focus which is visible only to the Yogi, to the Sage, or the perfect Seer: there is therefore no stoppage, but only a hiding from view.[PARA](5) Karma operates on all things and beings from the minutest conceivable atom to Brahma. Proceeding in the three worlds men, gods, and the elemental beings, no spot in the manifested universe is exempt from its sway.[PARA](6) Karma is not subject to time, and therefore he who knows what is the ultimate division of time in this Universe knows Karma.[PARA](7) For all other men Karma is in its essential nature unknown and unknowable.[PARA](8) But its action may be known by calculation from cause to effect; and this calculation is possible because the effect is wrapped up in and is not succedent to the cause.[PARA](9) The Karma of this earth is the combination of the acts and thoughts of all beings of every grade which were concerned in the preceding Manvantara or evolutionary stream from which ours flows.[PARA](10) And as those beings include Lords of Power and Holy Men, as well as weak and wicked ones, the period of the earth's duration is greater than that of any entity or race upon it.[PARA](11) Because the Karma of this earth and its races began in a past too far back for human minds to reach, an inquiry into its beginning is useless and profitless.[PARA](12) Karmic causes already set in motion must be allowed to sweep on until exhausted, but this permits no man to refuse to help his fellows and every sentient being.[PARA](13) The effects may be counteracted or mitigated by the thoughts and acts of oneself or of another, and then the resulting effects represent the combination and interaction of the whole number of causes involved in producing the effects.[PARA](14) In the life of worlds, races, nations, and individuals, Karma cannot act unless there is an appropriate instrument provided for its action.[PARA](15) And until such appropriate instrument is found, that Karma related to it remains unexpended.[PARA](16) While a man is experiencing Karma in the instrument provided, his other unexpended Karma is not exhausted through other beings or means, but is held reserved for future operation; and lapse of time during which no operation of that Karma is felt causes no deterioration in its force or change in its nature.[PARA](17) The appropriateness of an instrument for the operation of Karma consists in the exact connection and relation of the Karma with the body, mind, intellectual and psychical nature acquired for use by the Ego in any life.[PARA](18) Every instrument used by any Ego in any life is appropriate to the Karma operating through it.[PARA](19) Changes may occur in the instrument during one life so as to make it appropriate for a new class of Karma, and this may take place in two ways: (a) through intensity of thought and the power of a vow, and (b) through natural alterations due to complete exhaustion of old causes.[PARA](20) As body and mind and soul have each a power of independent action, any one of these may exhaust, independently of the others, some Karmic causes more remote from or nearer to the time of their inception than those operating through other channels.[PARA](21) Karma is both merciful and just. Mercy and Justice are only opposite poles of a single whole; and Mercy without Justice is not possible in the operations of Karma. That which man calls Mercy and Justice is defective, errant, and impure.[PARA](22) Karma may be of three sorts: (a) presently operative in this life through the appropriate instruments; (b) that which is being made or stored up to be exhausted in the future; Karma held over from past life or lives and not operating yet because inhibited by inappropriateness of the instrument in use by the Ego, or by the force of Karma now operating.[PARA](23) Three fields of operation are used in each being by Karma: (a) the body and the circumstances; (b) the mind and intellect; the psychic and astral planes.[PARA](24) Held-over Karma or present Karma may each, or both at once, operate in all of the three fields of Karmic operation at once, or in either of those fields a different class of Karma from that using the others may operate at the same time.[PARA](25) Birth into any sort of body and to obtain the fruits of any sort of Karma is due to the preponderance of the line of Karmic tendency.[PARA](26) The sway of Karmic tendency will influence the incarnation of an Ego, or any family of Egos, for three lives at least, when measures of repression, elimination, or counteraction are not adopted.[PARA](27) Measures taken by an Ego to repress tendency, eliminate defects, and to counteract by setting up different causes, will alter the sway of Karmic tendency and shorten its influence in accordance with the strength or weakness of the efforts expended in carrying out the measures adopted.[PARA](28) No man but a sage or true seer can judge another's Karma. Hence while each receives his deserts, appearances may deceive, and birth into Poverty or heavy trial may not be punishment for bad Karma, for Egos continually incarnate into poor surroundings where they experience difficulties and trials which are for the discipline of the Ego and result in strength, fortitude, and sympathy.[PARA](29) Race-Karma influences each unit in the race through the law of Distribution. National Karma operates on the members of the nation by the same law more concentrated. Family Karma governs only with a nation where families have been kept pure and distinct; for in any nation where there is a mixture of family - as obtains in each Kaliyuga period - family Karma is in general distributed over a nation. But even at such periods some families remain coherent for long periods, and then the members feel the sway of family Karma. The word "family" may include several smaller families.[PARA](30) Karma operates to produce cataclysms of nature by concatenation through the mental and astral planes of being. A cataclysm may be traced to an immediate physical cause such as internal fire and atmospheric disturbance, but these have been brought on by the disturbance created through the dynamic power of human thought.[PARA](31) Egos who have no Karmic connection with a portion of the globe where a cataclysm is coming on are kept without the latter's operation in two ways: (a) by repulsion acting on their inner nature, and (b) by being called and warned by those who watch the progress of the world.[PARA]Path, March, 1893[PARA] ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: C K----- Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 8:14 AM To: Subject: Violet flame...? What is going on with this article on the violet flame? The article is in the SpritWeb dot com's Theosophy Corner...It says stuff about erasing Karma [!] Anybody care to comment on the validity of this? From johnb@quickinfo.net Sat Sep 08 11:26:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: johnb@quickinfo.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 8 Sep 2001 18:26:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 9046 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2001 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2001 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO quicka2.QuickInfo) (199.45.165.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2001 18:26:48 -0000 Received: from c959863 (c959863-a.aurora1.co.home.com [24.179.157.158]) by quicka2.QuickInfo with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id S3SVCPR7; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:26:43 -0600 Message-ID: <04a701c13894$fc851560$9e9db318@aurora1.co.home.com> To: References: Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy a Received Truth Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:35:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "John Beers" Tony wrote, " .... Do the Masters subject us to their will? Olcott and Annie Besant were free to do what they will ..." Of course the Masters don't subject anyone to their will. That is a concept that would never have occurred to me. But if one really wanted to live a life of service to humanity and the Masters, he might try to discern Their will and their plans, and live his life accordingly. From arb@kreative.net Sat Sep 08 18:23:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arb@kreative.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 01:23:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 2179 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 01:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 01:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns.kreative.net) (216.181.1.236) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 01:23:15 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (laurelp-187.dsdial.net [216.181.253.187]) by ns.kreative.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA07977 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:41:13 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c138e7$5b648640$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> To: Subject: New Arrival? Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:24:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Andra Baylus" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Theos -talk, I'm not sure whether I am actually in this group Theos-Talk untill I receive some messages. I didn't realize that I had to join Yahoo to getmon this Theos-Talk. Would someone let me know if I hace succeeded? Thank you, In God's Love, Andra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arb@kreative.net Sat Sep 08 18:32:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arb@kreative.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 01:32:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 12279 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 01:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 01:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns.kreative.net) (216.181.1.236) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 01:32:37 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (laurelp-187.dsdial.net [216.181.253.187]) by ns.kreative.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08208 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:50:29 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c138e8$a6c3c320$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> To: Subject: Arriving On Board Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:34:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Andra Baylus" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Theos-Talk , I hope that I have registered properly so that I know I have come on board this Theos-talk. Please let me know when I will be receiving messages. Thank you. Andra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arb@kreative.net Sat Sep 08 18:42:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arb@kreative.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 01:42:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 1808 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 01:42:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 01:42:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 01:42:28 -0000 Received: from ns.kreative.net (unknown [216.181.1.236]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED63DAF14 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 20:42:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from oemcomputer (laurelp-187.dsdial.net [216.181.253.187]) by ns.kreative.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA08424 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <003d01c138ea$09d76ba0$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> To: Subject: Joining Theosophy Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:43:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Andra Baylus" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Theos-Talk, There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested in joining a group that is associated with HP Blavadsky's Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any Theosophy Societies in the Wshington-Northrn Virginia area. Thank you for responding. In God's Love, Andra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nos@granite.net.au Sat Sep 08 21:18:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 04:18:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 82272 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 04:18:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 04:18:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 04:18:29 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-32.granite.net.au [203.38.211.97]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27265 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:48:57 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:52:14 +0930 Message-ID: <000e01c138e7$01dac580$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003d01c138ea$09d76ba0$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> From: "nos" HI Andra, I got your message fine! Namaste Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Andra Baylus [mailto:arb@kreative.net] ##Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2001 2:14 PM ##To: theos-talk@theosophy.com ##Subject: Theos-World Joining Theosophy ## ## ##Dear Theos-Talk, ## There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested ##in joining a group that is associated with HP Blavadsky's ##Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any ##Theosophy Societies in the Wshington-Northrn Virginia area. ##Thank you for responding. In God's Love, ## Andra ## ## ##[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From etvionbb@netvision.net.il Sat Sep 08 21:30:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: etvionbb@netvision.net.il X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 04:30:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 65588 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 04:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 04:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgw2.netvision.net.il) (194.90.1.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 04:30:49 -0000 Received: from LocalHost (ras1-p463.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.223]) by mailgw2.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14268 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:33:34 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <003501c138f0$9dc31980$df91003e@LocalHost> To: References: <001301c138e7$5b648640$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Theos-World New Arrival? Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:31:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Etzion Becker" Welcome aboard, Andra. Etzion (on Theos Talk) > Dear Theos -talk, > I'm not sure whether I am actually in this group Theos-Talk untill I receive some messages. I didn't realize that I had to join Yahoo to getmon this Theos-Talk. Would someone let me know if I hace succeeded? > Thank you, > In God's Love, > Andra > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 03:26:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 10:26:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 4522 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 10:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 10:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 10:26:49 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0060.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.60]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89AQaa22101; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:26:36 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Truth What is it? Where is it ? Can we be sure of it? Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:20:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: Saturday, September 08, 2001 Re: TRUTH -- and LAW -- and LIVING Dear Bruce: This is how it looks to me: If we consider that every human is a being where the triple lines of evolution meet and mingle (see S D I 181 ) it may not be so difficult to see that TRUTH is also triune. 1. There is a Universal metaphysical and impartite TRUTH -- which to our minds corresponds to the concept of the ABSOLUTENESS -- of that which is TOTALLY PERFECT. This kind of truth stands as a "touchstone" for those who can access it, against which every event or discovery is measured. corresponds to SATTVA ] 2. Then there is the intermediary pathway whereby that TRUTH is conveyed to the material forms and the "psychological personality" which we all are when we are "awake." The Mind has the power to perceive law in dynamic action -- the RIGHT WAY to cooperation on a universal scale. This is dynamic and full of action, but it also changes constantly in expression and definition as new factors of the ongoing study revels wider and deeper areas of cooperation and penetration. [ corresponds to RAJAS ] And finally: 3. There is the truth of the aggregation of forms -- of primordial matter (as MONADS of higher or lower intelligence levels) -- but the karma of choices in the past, which have been aimed against cooperation and the universal LAW of harmony (Karma) has colored the nature of those "little lives" -- the "skandhas / samskaras" [which are the bearers (carriers) of our personal Karma.] It is this that acts at present as a drag that slows down and even tends to reject any concept of a universal NORM -- where the practice of virtue is normal as it is simple [ this corresponds to TAMAS - inertia, ignorance and darkness ]. Our problem is to find out whey we rebel against the fact of law. Why is it that we desire to believe we can escape the consequences of our evil and vicious deeds, thoughts and feelings ( all rooted in selfishness) -- yes, those are strong words and all apply to me as well as to most other humans unless then have become Adepts, Seers, Mahatmas. [ Should we not positively discover who "WE" are ? The "Real Man ?" Is it not this REAL MAN we are that controls the mind by mans of the WILL ? Questions may well be asked as to how those connections between ourselves as conscious INTELLIGENCES and the TRUTH OF UNIVERSAL LAW became blurred. Why do we now have the burden of undoing the evils of our past, that follow us around like the tail of a comet. From incarnation to incarnation. A wise man once wrote: " The Self only, eternally is. Now what are all the rest? Perceptions, I think; some permanent, being related to the Self, or of the Self; others perceptions of perceptions and impermanent in that they are in constant change. The two classes or bundles of perceptions in individuals would be the Higher and the Lower Mind. Perhaps Higher and Lower Self would be better, but no set terms can give anything but approximations of differences of perceptions. We may call what is perceived "matter," or "prakriti," that basis by which action may take place. It would seem that this basis is the general result of the interpenetrations, interblending, and interaction of the perceptions of multitudinous classes of beings [Monads]. The "mind" with which we work is just a bundle of perceptions of this physical plane where in every idea held has a physical basis. Can such a "bundle" include or solve that which is the cause, or sustaining power itself? Each plane has its own mode of "mind," and the only way by which we in lower manas can approximate the inner, is by rising to that plane where the perceptions and the mode is different. Can it be wondered at that all attempts to solve by brain-mind must be temporary hypotheses, one after the other discarded as we see its futility? Yet, the very exasperation induced sometimes opens a door to us. There is a state of Soul as Spectator [PATANJALI p. 3] without a spectacle, also many states of "spectacles" more or less circumscribed. Spirit, I think, would not be the whole of any given class, although such a condition might be called "spirituality," if the ideas were the eternal verities. Naught adheres to Spirit. There must be that Mind or Power to perceive which, taken in primal causes as well as subsequent effects; also that other circumscribed action which deals with minor causes and effects. Mind is the power to perceive residing in the Perceiver, its manifold perceptions and possibilities presenting kinds of mind and separative ideas and actions. All spiritual beings are the same in kind, differing only in degree. Terms are confusing, but ideas may be had out of the confusion, if we adhere to the One Reality--which is both Being and Non-Being. Each has his own way of seeing and translating what he sees. It is all lived out in the mind. Most minds, instead of living and acting out their ideals in the present, and fulfilling their present known duties to others, waste most of their opportunities in memory and anticipation. To live and act fully and rightly in the present is the whole of life; the dynamic force of the brain would then act fully and rightly, and there would be no exhaustion." [ F P 157-9 ] I hope this may prove useful. More questions ? Best wishes, Dallas ============================= -----Original Message----- From: B---e F. Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:53 PM To: Subject: Truth: How and why perceived? Proof ? Peter, you write: I find the >concept of truth a great problem in my present incarnation. I have this >'Feel' that truth is invariant and never changing. But I live in a physical >world that is changing all the time and what I believe to be a truth seems >to change as life changes. So what is true or truth? Can you or anyone help >me with this very unsettling problem please. The problem of truth has caused not only a great deal of discomfort and uncertainty for individuals through history, but has also caused many wars and genocide. What tends to happen is that people are not content to accept that truth actually does change as they grow into more experience of life. So, in their uncertainty, they decide that one "truth," usually a religious or political or economic or racial "truth" is the only right one and they feel so strongly about this that they are willing even to kill others to impose their "truth." All religions have at one time been involved in this, as also political systems like Capitalism or Communism. Sometimes the "truth" that people will kill for is a racial one, like with Hitler or the former Yugoslavia (religious and racial), or with Israel and Palestine, etc. So the problem you are having is actually a very good "problem" to have, because it means that you have not decided that you have THE TRUTH for which you will kill others or exclude them or punish them. The relative truth we live with is good because it means it gives us the motivation to search for something which is even "more true for us." That way we read and listen to others and discuss and try to discover something which is even more fulfilling than what we know or believe or think right now. I would say, be happy you haven't found THE TRUTH, because when you do, you stop looking for even greater truth, you stop being human, compassionate, loving and begin to try to "convert" others to your truth, and then when they are not converted you get angry, and from anger develop all the other evils I have spoken of above. It is impossible to have Universal Brotherhood (which is the central theme of Theosophy) if you think you have THE UNCHANGING TRUTH, but if you are like most people, searching for truth, then you can have compassion and fellow-feeling for everyone else on the planet and perhaps at some point in time we will all work together to find an even greater truth. But I hope we never discover THE TRUTH! It would destroy us. I hope that helps. Keep looking for more truth, and you will keep growing. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 03:27:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 7313 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:03 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0060.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.60]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89AQ5a21456; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:26:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Cc: "AA-Carson" Subject: RE: [bn-study] Truth and the Sacred Heart Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:19:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sapphire Many thanks for your good essay on the cardinal VIRTUES and the description of them in practice. Would you allow me to ask some further questions? 1. Can we say there are two approaches to TRUTH ? By that I mean: 1. how we FEEL about it, and 2. what we KNOW about it ? 2. If we can show that TRUTHS and VIRTUE are inter-related. But, are they universal or, are they only the way we =93see=94 things as a person ? 3. Is not the singe =93God or Source=94 a statement that the Univer= se in its entirety is pervaded by the spiritual essence as a basis ? If so, how are we to explain the existence and influence of selfishness and =93evil?= =94 These must be a reason why there is IGNORANCE and consequent FEAR . 4. If UNITY is assumed then BROTHERHOOD would be the practice universally. As an IDEAL all subscribe to it. Even the thief, or the liar plays the part of an honest man. 5. If IDEALS exist and are TRUE, then why is it so difficult to practice them? In other words what is the origin of EVIL ? 6. Would it be right and fair to assume there are universal laws in SPIRITUAL NATURE and that these are reflected at all levels of the evolutionary scale? 7. If there is an evolutionary scale, then how has Nature (or God) devised it? What are its beginning and end? What is its purpose? 8. Is there in Nature something like a basic Unit which living and acting as a =93pilgrim=94 passes through the various stages of =93evolution= =94 and emerges VIRTUOUS and WISE ? Are the Sages, Prophets, =93Sons of God,=94 et= c=85 of this potential? 9. What is the position and condition of Man=92s Spirit and Soul? = Is there a difference between SPIRIT and SOUL ? ( for instance, as between WISDOM and MIND ?) 10. How can we best establish the relationship between SPIRIT and MATTER? Are they co-existent ? What function do they play if they are essential? Can units of =93MATTER=94 be spiritualized? Does thinking and consciousness play a part in this ? 11. May we define =93LOVE=94 as the natural attraction between the pa= irs of opposites ? Is it an equilibrating state and force? Could this again b= e expressed as =93Universal Brotherhood?=94 Does this not do away with any conflicts, animosities, desire to dominate others, etc=85 and, Do we not have to give to others the same freedoms we expect for ourselves ? 12. If there are Universal TRUTHS and LAWS, then ought not our faith be based on those once that they have been proved to exist? Why is it so difficult for us to realize there may be such facts? Why is it difficult t= o admit that they are universal and uniform for all? Why is there a constant attempt to escape from the limits and rigors of Laws ? This is a most peculiar psychological condition and needs explaining. What aspect of Man demands freedom? 13. Does not =93RESPECT=94 fit in with the concept that we are, at ba= se, all SPIRITUAL BEINGS? That which we respect in others is identical with th= e =93fragment of God-Spirit=94 that is inherent in us. If God pervades the Universe, then are not all beings potential =93Gods.=94 But can this be demonstrated logically ? 14. Does not =93KINDNESS=94 also pattern itself as an attitude and a practice of the concept that the Universal God-Spirit is present in all things, from the Atom to the Human, and from the little Earth we live on to the utmost limits of the COSMOS ? Why does our having to live in a form of matter make us forgetful of the IDEALS and the facts of our ALL being a par= t of the IMMORTALITY of the UNIVERSE ? 15. Is this not the great mystery of LIFE ? To be seemingly =93separate,=94 yet to be each one analogous to others in some degrees, wh= ile being quite separate as to memory, experience, capacity and faculties ? 16. Are these differences indicative of our personal evolution? Is it perhaps that our present emphasis on differences makes appear so different from one another? How do we reunite? , One wonders why it is tha= t the UNIVERSE seems to have split itself into innumerable =93parts=94 and th= rough those =93differences=94 it again seeks to reunite itself into ONE WHOLE ? = Of course experience and acquired knowledge and wisdom will accrue during the process. 17. Are not HONESTY, JUSTICE, and KINDNESS efforts that the personal mind has to make to become truly united with all others ? And is not that Unity one of voluntary adoption of the Laws of the Universe (God) for the guidance of our freedom to choose? 18. If we have this freedom, and, if it is derived from SPIRIT (which is One) then, are not the many kinds of qualifications and differences prevailing in the World false? By =93differences=94 I mean nationality, race, creed sect, level of education, language, etc=85 Should= we not examine these carefully to see how and why they are taught, imposed, an= d we are then placed by some in those categories ? You see all you write has suggested a number of questions to me, and I wonder if your views applied to them will help answer some of them. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Sapphire Blue [mailto:sapphire_10@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 4:16 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Truth and the Sacred Heart Greetings dear friends Thank you for the wonderful exchanges on bn-study recently. I was particularly moved by Peter's original email on belief and truth, and his comment about finding the concept of truth a great problem in his present incarnation. Blavatsky simply but profoundly stated "There is no Religion higher than Truth" summing up the Truth of the Ageless Wisdom teachings in which she endured great personal pain and self-sacrifice to give humanity. But defining the essence of truth is most elusive, and endeavouring to live truth as a daily reality is even more difficult. Peter summed this up by saying " I have this 'Feel' that truth is invariant and never changing. But I live in a physical world that is changing all the time and what I believe to be a truth seems to change as life changes. So what is true or truth?" I believe that pure truth can be found only in the heart, not the mind. We call this 'thinking in the heart'. The heart centre is the true source of human power. The mind is merely a servant which behaves well when given positive impulses and behaves poorly when given negative impulses. In esoteric parlance, it is generally said that "the mind is the slayer of the real". When we speak symbolically of "getting to the heart of the matter" w= e essentially mean the truth. It is common esoteric knowledge that the Sacred Heart, which is the spiritual aspect of the physical heart organ, is the true source of our higher intelligence and our sacred link to the Father - our Divine Spark or Monad. The Heart's function is to honour that sacred bond. When Master Jesu= s spoke of the temple, He was referring to the Sacred Heart and when referrin= g to the Kingdom of Heaven, He meant the zone of perfection which is the bond between God and man found within the Heart. >From the Heart Centre of wisdom and truth, there are found seven dimensions of higher intelligence which resonate outwardly. They can be regarded as principles for living a life of truth. As we begin to master them in their completeness, they can be seen with more clarity as dimensions of greater ability and knowledge. The seven dimensions of Intelligence within the Hear= t are: 1) UNITY - is the primary awareness that there is but one God or Source, on= e Power which is the unifying force in all of life. This awareness affirms th= e oneness of spirit, reveals the wisdom of the ages, and provides insight int= o the larger order of things. Through respect for unity , one comes to understand the patterns of cause and effect which permeate all of existence= . Unity is also the source of intelligence, for it grants the ability to integrate knowledge and to correctly define priorities. That is the beginning of wisdom. Integration is the principle of successful thinking an= d living. Without priorities, there can be no focus in life and no values. This translates into higher intelligence when you understand that there are core issues in everyone's life relating to dominance. Dominance is always a= n issue in the world. Competition hinges on the problem of dominance, ranging from business to military conflict. In personal lives the! re are endless battles for position. Until one allows God to be the unifying force in life= , there is nothing else capable of ending the chaos of competition. In the presence of unity, which is God, the One, the Supreme, you have all the power you need to fulfill your life and existence. 2) LOVE - is the power of the Universe. Therefore, your greatest defence in life is to protect, honour, and respect love in its many forms. When you maintain this principle with clarity, your life purposes will come into view. This is because all your purposes are etched in love. Love is beyond just a feeling or an orientation. It is a dimension of intelligence and purposeful living. Above all, it is the essence of beingness. A person who is operating with a commitment to purpose has higher intelligence than one who is not. A person who is operating on his true purpose is then able to assign values to life. The heart's intelligence is cumulative. Through perceptions of unity, priorities are established. Then love assigns the purposes. Furthermore, love heightens a person's instinct to nourish, enhance, and apply those purposes. Love is both a way of being and also a pathway for becoming. Love ignites life. Love savours life and sustains faith ! and hope. Even though life often brings lessons in hard packages, learning happens only when forgiveness has occurred and love is restored. I= t is love that ignites the learning. Only with love can learning occur. Love brings certainty to life, and when your love is clear and unpolluted with regrets or false desires, you will have the confidence to live your life with passion. With passion, there will be fuel for life. Meditate upon love as the power of your beingness and the essence of who you really are. Earnestly apply its principles and you will be successful in love and life. 3) LIFE - life is love in action. The hope of life is meaningful experience= , happiness, fulfillment and continuity. Life has indwelling intelligence. Follow life, serve the living, and fulfill your love by following the pathways that life is revealing to you. There is great wisdom in that simpl= e process. Life and the living will light your way and unfold your future. Instead of watching life through a rear-view mirror, look before you and behold the current possibilities with innocent perception. In practicing this, you will cultivate the inborn intelligence of how life works and how the love that you are can foster better involvements with it. Forgive yourself and others, for yesterday has already been lived. Be here now and face the path in front of you, for that is where life is. Regard the presen= t moment as sacred. Respect life in all its ways as an unfolding experience. Life is not behind you - it's in front of you. It is not history or a! memory. Life is that which is birthing before your very eyes. Know that, an= d your intelligence will become a dynamic force rather than a stagnating body of knowledge with formulas for mortal structure. 4) RESPECT - it begins with respect for God, respect for yourself, respect for your brothers, and for all life forms. Respect is a point of honour, although it is a great deal more than that. Though we are one in spirit, each being is unique in love, purpose, and life. Unique qualities belong to each person and endow him with abilities, freedoms, and responsibilities that may not be present for another. Each person, and every aspect of life, is irreplaceable. What you do not bring to the Earth, no one else will. Respect begins with knowing that you and your Creator have a covenant, and in that covenant are all the answers and resources you need to make your life work. Then you extend that right to others. This ultimately leads to respect for Divine Order, which is the highest intelligence. Composure come= s form respect for Divine Order. Do not complain, for that is disrespect. Do not wallow in self-pity, for that is disrespect of! self. Why should a chil= d of God feel sorry for himself? That is the essence of denial. And in so denying, do you see how you disempower? Through respect for Divine Order, patience is cultivated. This brings knowledge of proper timing. In that is great intelligence. Often other issues and other needs have to be worked ou= t before your plans can unfold, before your place can be set at the table. By respecting all things, and most especially Divine Order, you will attain peace and patience. Through this, you will be directed to the most efficien= t use of your life, so that you can experience self-respect to the fullest. The greatest act of self-respect is to honour the Sacred Heart as the seat of your covenant with God and your access to higher intelligence. 5) HONESTY - the practice of honesty will reveal the power of innocent perception. Without honesty, there is no such thing as higher intelligence. In many ways, honesty is the summation of other dimensions of intelligence, for how can one even access intelligence except through the practice of honesty? How can intelligence be applied to life unless a situation is honestly evaluated? It is unfortunate that honesty is regarded primarily as a guideline for morality rather than an aspect of intelligence. Honesty brings solutions to every problem of life, as well as science, law, and social management. Honesty begins with the most simple question, 'what is it?' followed by a direct uncensored answer of what is. The most dangerous person ever to deceive is yourself, for in doing so you destroy your basis for honesty. Honesty is the foundation of intelligence, while dishonesty i= s the foundation of stupidity. Many doors are shut to a dishonest p! erson. Even if he could enter, he could not walk through the maze of his own self-deceptions. This includes honesty about habits, relationships, ideas, careers, and plans. You are not going any further than honesty will carry you. Contemplation of honesty will open the chambers of your heart and opportunities in life which have been hidden from you. 6) JUSTICE - exchange is the basis of life in the universe, from the most elemental particles to the most complex human situations. Justice is the intelligence of exchange and balance. When balance is maintained, health prevails. This is true in all things, from a healthy person to a healthy planet. Through practicing balance and fair exchange, you will develop wisdom in your discourses with life and with others. All things return to balance eventually. Being a wise and effective custodian of those balances is the hallmark of justice. There is a special dimension of intelligence in the heart which allows this to happen. There is a fair price for everything= , and that derives its justice from an exact ratio of displacement. How much energy, time, effort, and ability was spent in producing the product and service? Paying too little and paying too much are equally damaging to the act of exchange and both will inhibit a return to equilibrium. In every e! xchange, love is the element, energy, and willingness which allows it to happen. Stealing, invasion, or trespassing may be brought about with force or deception. There is no true exchange without love. You are exchanging friendship, rapport, confidence, trust and values that build justice. When justice is gone, trust is gone. When trust is gone, civilization is gone. I= f containment of criminality were the only reason for justice, it could hardl= y be regarded as higher intelligence. The true purpose of justice is not abou= t containment of anything. Rather, it is about adjustments and resolutions. Justice is a way of life which nourishes goodness and stewards the never ending flow of exchange. Nevertheless, criminality flourishes when there is widespread injustice. Justice is like water. It finds its own true level if there is enough fairness and exchange to accommodate the flow. When adjustments cannot be made, desperate measures will often be attempted. There are many possi! ble causes of criminal action. Yet, when a society practices justice, there is no fertile ground to permit its cultivation. 7) KINDNESS - is not just an act of charity to the young, the vulnerable, o= r the needy. It is the will of God for everyone. Your goodness is strengthene= d through kindness. It is the will of the Father that you know and use that power to be a wise custodian of what you have been given. Through acts of kindness your own abundance increases, for you have multiplied the ways in which your giving may be returned to you. The world regards kindness as a compensation for life, or a gentle protection from its harsher realities. Actually, kindness is the heart of living. It is what makes life bearable, meaningful, and delicious. In order to develop the intelligence of kindness= , you must discover the joy of truly giving and forgiving - no strings attached, not even so much for glory or recognition. In tapping into kindness, you are literally tapping into the intelligence of God. In understanding kindness for yourself, you also understand it for othe! rs. I= t is the will of God that you be kind to yourself and others. Kindness is the right use of will. Kindness is GOOD WILL - expressed as caring, helping, refraining from hurtful actions, sharing, making life work, and consideration of others. Kindness is strength in action. The confidence tha= t comes from showing kindness is a masterful influence over any situation. Consider how much strength it takes to show good will to someone who is hurting you. Kindness builds strength, and strength builds greater kindness= . Kindness is the consummating dimension of the heart's intelligence, the wil= l of God for life itself. Do not confuse intelligence with the dry detachment of mental reasoning. True intelligence is merely certainty and understanding, which bring both clarity and passion to life. Another way of saying the same thing is that within the Sacred Heart are seven passions: Unity, Love, Life, Respect, Honesty, Justice, and Kindness, which bring understanding and focus to li! ving. Together they generate COMPASSION, which is the soul's true knowing. The Sacred Heart is the soul's gateway, both into life and beyond into eternity. The Heart is the timeless and indestructible source of all higher knowledge. It is the one point within each person where the inner and outer forces are the same. Within the Heart, the will of God and your own may be brought into harmony. Thus, through living and thinking in the Heart, we ca= n strive to reflect the essence of truth in our daily lives, and by empowerin= g it, we consciously raise our energy level physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. Love & Blessings to you all, Sapphire _____ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 03:27:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 5164 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:09 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0060.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.60]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89AQxa22599; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:27:00 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-B-Study" Subject: RE: [bn-study] RE: The Astral Plane as an electro-magnetic network of forces. Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:20:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: Sunday, September 09, 2001 Dear Bart: Re Koran I had noted this was said of the Koran. However in history at least twice, if not three times, it has been revised and rewritten or rearranged by scholars. So the texts currently reproduced my can not be the original and actual words of the Prophet. Interesting: I agree that all translations will convey a certain color or flavor of the mind that is doing the translating. Then that makes for modifications. Look for instance at the current efforts of Biblical scholars to discover the earliest written versions of the BIBLE -- and the long time it has taken for the DEAD SEA SCROLLS to be finally translated and those translations to be made available, even as picture reproductions. Re Astral matter -- its constitution Astral Matter and electro-magnetic field of forces. It is an analogy. In reading the current discoveries in astro-physics one wonders if this analogy is not being seen there in regard to the arrangements of harmony and balance between Suns and planets, comets, meteorites, "dust" etc... To many the answer it is GRAVITY that does this rather then electro-magnetism on a colossal scale -- because we have a convention in place that identifies elctro-magnetism to the phenomena of attraction and repulsion relating to a few elements: Iron, Cobalt, Nickel, Manganese (these 4 I believe). Other elements hardly react to intense electro-magnetic fields. Yet when one considers the physical of elementary and sub-atomic particles, the various separations and differences are achieved by using electro-magnetism and highly charged beams of various kinds that, accelerated, are made to impinge on a variety of selected "targets" the concept of a network of such forces below and within the physical base is not impossible but highly probable and it is one of the hypotheses that is still current in scientific circles. But to continue this line of Theosophical inquiry, we ought to further ask: what set limits and parameters to the Astral forms that underlie the physical ? Are they pertaining to the "Pranic" and then, below that, to the "Kamic" planes ? Where are the real limits set ? Who, and how are they set ? In PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION (Article by H P B in LUCIFER, Oct & Nov 1890; H P B Articles, U L T Edn., Vol. 2, p. 7; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 12, p.350) makes the distinction between atoms and molecules, placing the atoms on the astral plane of force whereas the molecules are placed on the physical plane of MATERIAL FORMS. (see pp 19, 21-2, 24-5, I hope this may be of help Dal ============================= -----Original Message----- From: Bart L--------- Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 8:16 PM To: Subject: Re: [bn-study] Seven Fold Constitution and ASTRAL MATTER dalval14@earthlink.net wrote: > I did not know the Arabic script had also been "dotted." I have > always had so far to rely on translations of the Koran, and since > I did not know the original, I looked at several, so as to > compare the versions. Interesting semi irrelevant side note: According to Islamic doctrine, the Koran cannot be translated, only interpreted. > The idea of an electro-magnetic base (astral matter) of forces > powers and energies on which the physical molecules and > structures are arranged. Can you please explain to me the relationship between an electro-magnetic base and astral matter? Bart cut From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 03:27:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 49814 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:19 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0060.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.60]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89AREa22874; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:27:14 -0700 (PDT) To: "Rolando Lequeux" Subject: RE: Reason for Metaphysial answers as to CAUSE, CAUSELSS CAUSE, FINAL GOAL Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <007D80E5.C22202@seagram.com> From: Sunday, September 09, 2001 Dear Rolando: This question come up periodically and all I can offer is that which I have culled from the study of theosophical literature. It runs as follows: I would say that the possibility of giving a definitive answer in physical terms of time, space and Intelligence known to us as we are at present ( awake, and using our brain-minds) on the matter of the CAUSELESS CAUSE is not possible. And yet if we use the hints given in SECRET DOCTRINE on Theosophical Metaphysics, we can give a tentative answer in terms of universal and impersonal principles. The first 300 page of Vol. I of The SECRET DOCTRINE attempts to furnish us with this information and to supplement it the answers H.P.Blavatsky gave in TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) , vol. 10 ] can put us on the track. Let us see: We cannot discover whether the hen or the egg first came into existence. We cannot discover the "beginning" of the Kosmic effort that has brought forth the entire UNIVERSE, or even our small Solar System. It can be presumed that they have had other embodiments before this one, and if our minds will accept the concept, those previous embodiments stretch back of an illimitable time-period. >From this the concept of universal immortality, a continual evolution towards an ever receding PERFECTION have been posited. Even this PERFECTION has not been defined except in a vague way by the sentence: "The purpose of Life is to learn. It is all made up of learning." You ask what is the need for a return to UNITY. From one point of view we have never left it. UNITY FOREVER ENCOMPASSES ALL BEINGS. But as we get to pass through experiences as we live so many lives the record of those experiences is impacted for all eternity in the Akasa, which is all around and in and through us (Akasa is allied to Buddhi and, is the 7th aspect of the Astral Light). Each MONAD adds the record of its experience to the ever-growing Akasic record, in this sense after elevating the monads of lesser experience to a higher level of intelligence (where they reach the human stage of self-consciousness and freedom of choice), our Higher Self sets out on a new pilgrimage to elevate another set of Monads. This process is ever repetitive. It is the ideal whereon Teaching is based. One fact we can derive from experiment and observation is that NATURE (the Universe) is supremely INTELLIGENT. It has in place innumerable LAWS whereby the cooperation of its many departments are intelligently and immediately answered. It sensitivity is enormous, and encompasses both the small as the great. Both the ancient as well as the modern, and presumably, the future. Man is presumed to be free-willed. That free will derives from the Mind. But it is the Real Man who considers alternatives and chooses his course of action base on 1. Knowledge, 2. Desires and hopes, and 3. his ignorance. Often the choices are rash and the result of impatience. This may result in the breaking of Natures Laws. This results in burdening the "little-lives," the Monads under instruction that surround the MIND-MONAD, with false impressions. Under such impulse they suffer along with the victims selected by the Mind-Monad acting in error. It is these lesser Monads, H.P.Blavatsky states which become the bearers of our Karma, good or bad. Later when they return to us they bring the full force of the errors we might have impressed on the and under law they demand that we redress this. [ H P B explains this in her article TRANSMIGRATION OF THE LIFE ATOMS U L T Edn. Vol. II p. 249; THEOSOPHIST, July. Aug 1883; BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 5, p 110 ] The Cyclic path is a learning experience. But it is not a closed circle but is only a part of a never-ending spiral. Our Incarnation as a spiritual being into the "flesh" of a physical form is a sacrificial action made by the HIGHER SELF -- ATMA. It resolved aeons ago to help all Monads to raise themselves to its condition and state. If there is any resistance and annoyance in us to this process, the we can trace it to the personal ideal of our Kamic nature (desires and passions). It is these especially that we have under training for the present cycle. No doubt there will be more questions on this, and if so let us share them Best wishes, Dallas ============================ -----Original Message----- From: R-----o Lx Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:12 AM To: dalval14@earthlink.net Subject: Reason for causeless cause -- final Goal of evolution Dear Dallas, Is it possible that the 'cause without a cause', through its periodical manifestations (i.e. the nights and the days of Brahma) is in a learning process itself? If so, that would be "the" learning process of all learning processes. This question I put forward, because in attempting to understand the meaning of suffering, pain, sadness, I still have not found a sound explanation. Yes, we are told by the yogis, by HPB and by other theosophists that it is part of a cyclical path (i.e. we somehow emanate from The One as manifest particles, and in our 'return' to the Unity(*), tread a path of learning which 'comes with' or implies these growing pains, etc.) To me, this means that The One is itself "learning", itself in a journey towards "perfection". Otherwise, the sheer existence or concept of "pain" would NOT BE. ??? Regards and best wishes to you and all on the study list. From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 03:27:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 49906 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 10:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 10:27:22 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0060.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.30.60]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89AR6a22723; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:27:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: To the moderators.... Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 03:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: Sunday, September 09, 2001 Re: Personal bios Dear Louis: >From the beginning H P B emphasized that any veracity concerning Theosophical teaching was inherent to the propositions and descriptive phrases used, and Theosophy was not to be made more credible by its presentation made by any person. As persons can err, it was thought advisable to place ones reliance on COMMON SENSE and propositions that were both impersonal and universal. And also to verify them with information that was already available generally. Hence any emphasis on personality was discouraged, as it said nothing as to the value of what was offered. In any case biographies (unless heavily documented) are the product of someone's opinions concerning another party -- and those opinions, as in the case of a translation into another language -- could be prejudiced or even wrong. How a persona may have lived and what he or she may have done is no index to their real character and capacities. But what they write, say and do are indexes as to sincerity, honesty, and creditability. We cannot judge Theosophy by the personal who may present it. Theosophy is said to be a presentation of Universal Truth. The promulgator or the propagandist may have many personal faults. None of those makes the philosophy either better or worse. It value is innate and inherent to is. It becomes the responsibility of the student, or the pupil, or the devotee, to direct his study to PROVING the accuracy of what any Theosophical proposition is. The reason an interlocking and cooperative set of rules and laws that exist in nature and link all beings together is exposed, is that at this point in our racial development, we needed to have a more consecutive and correlative view of our situation and of the laws of Nature that support our lives. Theosophy has succeeded in showing the shortcomings of materialism, the dogmatism and limitations of orthodox religiosity, and the problems that affect an understanding of intelligence, consciousness, and the reason for man's existence. Karma and Reincarnation have been shown importance and the eternal nature of the Human Spirit/Soul has been described. The purpose of evolution has been broadly described as "Sublime Perfection. And its attainment has bee placed in front of every thinking individual as a potential they may work for. Again and again "authorities" and reliance on them has been discouraged. You may ask what about H P B, W Q Judge, Annie Besant, Olcott, Krishnamurthi, se Puruker, de Zircov, Leadbeater, etc... are their writing to be relied on? Read those writings and compare carefully with the teachings that H P B has given us on behalf of the GREAT AND ANCIENT LODGE H P B is a special case as she came as a "messenger" from the Great and Ancient lodge of Adepts [ see ISIS UNVEILED Vol. 2, pp 98-103; SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I pp 207-210 ] Thar there exists an association, a band of un-dying Adepts, Mahatmas, Buddhas, Rishis, is spoken of in many places by chiefly in SECRET DOCTRINE II pp. 275fn, 281-2 Neither the Adepts nor H P B ever claimed "authority." The provided us with historical information that bridges many of the gaps of pre-history and shows the links between various Religions at their ROOTS. ISIS UNVEILED provides us with a good deal of information on this, and so does The SECRET DOCTRINE . The SECRET DOCTRINE additionally provides us with an extensive view of the observations made by the un-dying Adepts of the Evolution of the Worlds, suns and Universe as well as of Mankind on this our planet. The propositions concerning Science and Philosophy can be relatively easily verified if one has a broad and well developed knowledge in those areas. Essentially Theosophy is provable. It is up to us if we are interested and assiduous students to do this proving. Best wishes, Dallas ================================== -----Original Message----- From: T -- 9 Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 3:16 AM To: Subject: [bn-study] To the moderators.... For me, the value of this list the way that it currently exists, is the LACK of biographical personality information. Without that being supplied, the poster IS his or her message. I have come to "know" certain people on this list, strictly by their postings. There are no other ego or personality issues to distract me. Everyone on this list gets to be their best or worst self, through what they say, NOT, because of what is said about them. I believe a bio page is available on the home page for those who need it. Louis > A suggestion , maybe? > Would it be possible to schedule a day where you would post relatively short bios of the moderators? > > And schedule another day for short bios of posters? > > A sort of getting to know session . > Would it have merit or should something be done like this "on the fly" , From DNisk98114@aol.com Sun Sep 09 06:39:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 13:39:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 62054 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 13:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 13:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 13:38:59 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.85.fa9d21e (659) for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 09:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85.fa9d21e.28cccaee@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 09:38:54 EDT Subject: RE: mitigating Karma To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subject: Violet flame...? What is going on with this article on the violet flame? The article is in the SpritWeb dot com's Theosophy Corner...It says stuff about erasing Karma [!] Anybody care to comment on the validity of this? 33333333333333333333333333333 Being wrapped up in any "facet" of Theosophy is something that is very easy to get caught up in , that many of us have come in contact with this in its many various forms is not to say that that facet has no value or is worthless ,just a warning from wisdoms' voice that says to investigate and comprehend . Yes Theosophy states that sound and color has intensive and profound depths of meaning but also says that , as the student moves on through the teachings these "facets" will become more apparent and that there is no need to make them a "thing" in themselves.. Finding in Nature appropriate value is inherent in the path shown by Theosophy. What wiser students have found is the truth of those facets and see them in a well rounded concept in various degrees without distortion. And yes , these facets are to be studied , as it adds to that "sacred" store that the student inherits but like all "facets" they only enhance but cannot nor should not cover up the central ideation that Theosophy brings forward ,such as the true meaning of Universal Brotherhood , non-sectarianism , compassion , and so forth. Mitigation of Karma is fine , but be warned as to the right-ness of that mitigation. If it is only "blockage by force" then be aware that no "part" can "block" the whole of one's nature or of Universal Nature. G'D who knows you as you truly are will adjust accordingly according to Sacred Law which no man can escape. The aphorisms given by Dallas hold the key. Well, enough said. From teos9@aol.com Sun Sep 09 07:02:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Teos9@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 14:01:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 9691 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 14:01:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 14:01:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 14:01:58 -0000 Received: from Teos9@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.22.1b8aa8c5 (16785) for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22.1b8aa8c5.28ccd04e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:01:50 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] Re: To the moderators.... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 From: teos9@aol.com Hello Dallas, Thanks for the reply. If I am reading your abundant response correctly, it looks as if you agree with my own reply to the poster, DNisk98114, who originally made this suggestion. The beauty of a written correspondence that has no preconceived imagery associated with it, is, that it requires a genuine two way metaphysical experience. Writer and reader can be intimately joined in an ongoing intuitive relationship. The relationship that both, you and I have had with HPB over the last forty years or so, is a case on point. It is her own intuitive words that calls forth my own intuitive thoughts. Knowing her in the flesh would not have added to that one iota. Indeed, it may have even distracted me. Best Louis In a message dated 9/9/2001 6:28:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dalval14@earthlink.net writes: > Sunday, September 09, 2001 > > Re: Personal bios > > > Dear Louis: > > From the beginning H P B emphasized that any veracity concerning > Theosophical teaching was inherent to the propositions and > descriptive phrases used, and Theosophy was not to be made more > credible by its presentation made by any person. > > As persons can err, it was thought advisable to place ones > reliance on COMMON SENSE and propositions that were both > impersonal and universal. And also to verify them with > information that was already available generally. > > Hence any emphasis on personality was discouraged, as it said > nothing as to the value of what was offered. > > In any case biographies (unless heavily documented) are the > product of someone's opinions concerning another party -- and > those opinions, as in the case of a translation into another > language -- could be prejudiced or even wrong. How a persona may > have lived and what he or she may have done is no index to their > real character and capacities. But what they write, say and do > are indexes as to sincerity, honesty, and creditability. We > cannot judge Theosophy by the personal who may present it. > > Theosophy is said to be a presentation of Universal Truth. The > promulgator or the propagandist may have many personal faults. > None of those makes the philosophy either better or worse. It > value is innate and inherent to is. It becomes the > responsibility of the student, or the pupil, or the devotee, to > direct his study to PROVING the accuracy of what any Theosophical > proposition is. > > The reason an interlocking and cooperative set of rules and laws > that exist in nature and link all beings together is exposed, is > that at this point in our racial development, we needed to have a > more consecutive and correlative view of our situation and of the > laws of Nature that support our lives. > > Theosophy has succeeded in showing the shortcomings of > materialism, the dogmatism and limitations of orthodox > religiosity, and the problems that affect an understanding of > intelligence, consciousness, and the reason for man's existence. > > Karma and Reincarnation have been shown importance and the > eternal nature of the Human Spirit/Soul has been described. > > The purpose of evolution has been broadly described as "Sublime > Perfection. And its attainment has bee placed in front of every > thinking individual as a potential they may work for. > > Again and again "authorities" and reliance on them has been > discouraged. > > You may ask what about H P B, W Q Judge, Annie Besant, Olcott, > Krishnamurthi, se Puruker, de Zircov, Leadbeater, etc... are > their writing to be relied on? Read those writings and compare > carefully with the teachings that H P B has given us on behalf of > the GREAT AND ANCIENT LODGE > > H P B is a special case as she came as a "messenger" from the > Great and Ancient lodge of Adepts [ see ISIS UNVEILED Vol. 2, pp > 98-103; SECRET DOCTRINE Vol. I pp 207-210 ] Thar there exists > an association, a band of un-dying Adepts, Mahatmas, Buddhas, > Rishis, is spoken of in many places by chiefly in SECRET DOCTRINE > II pp. 275fn, 281-2 > > Neither the Adepts nor H P B ever claimed "authority." The > provided us with historical information that bridges many of the > gaps of pre-history and shows the links between various Religions > at their ROOTS. > > ISIS UNVEILED provides us with a good deal of information on > this, and so does The SECRET DOCTRINE . > > The SECRET DOCTRINE additionally provides us with an extensive > view of the observations made by the un-dying Adepts of the > Evolution of the Worlds, suns and Universe as well as of Mankind > on this our planet. > > The propositions concerning Science and Philosophy can be > relatively easily verified if one has a broad and well developed > knowledge in those areas. > > Essentially Theosophy is provable. It is up to us if we are > interested and assiduous students to do this proving. > > > Best wishes, > > Dallas > > ================================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: T -- 9 > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 3:16 AM > To: > Subject: [bn-study] To the moderators.... > > For me, the value of this list the way that it currently exists, > is the LACK > of biographical personality information. Without that being > supplied, the > poster IS his or her message. I have come to "know" certain > people on this > list, strictly by their postings. There are no other ego or > personality > issues to distract me. Everyone on this list gets to be their > best or worst > self, through what they say, NOT, because of what is said about > them. I > believe a bio page is available on the home page for those who > need it. > > Louis > > > > A suggestion , maybe? > > Would it be possible to schedule a day where you would post > relatively > short bios of the moderators? > > > > And schedule another day for short bios of posters? > > > > A sort of getting to know session . > > > Would it have merit or should something be done like this "on > the fly" , > > > > From arb@kreative.net Sun Sep 09 07:45:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arb@kreative.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 14:45:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 61532 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 14:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 14:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns.kreative.net) (216.181.1.236) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 14:45:38 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (laurelp-254.dsdial.net [216.181.253.254]) by ns.kreative.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20422 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:00:23 -0400 Message-ID: <005801c13957$00d6ce20$fefdb5d8@oemcomputer> To: Subject: Re: Theos-World New Arrival? Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:43:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Andra Baylus" Shalom, Thank you Etzion! In God's Love, Andra -----Original Message----- From: Etzion Becker To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World New Arrival? > >Welcome aboard, Andra. Etzion (on Theos Talk) > >> Dear Theos -talk, >> I'm not sure whether I am actually in this group Theos-Talk untill I >receive some messages. I didn't realize that I had to join Yahoo to getmon >this Theos-Talk. Would someone let me know if I hace succeeded? >> Thank you, >> In God's Love, >> Andra >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From arb@kreative.net Sun Sep 09 07:47:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arb@kreative.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 14:47:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 65839 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 14:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 14:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns.kreative.net) (216.181.1.236) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 14:47:43 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (laurelp-254.dsdial.net [216.181.253.254]) by ns.kreative.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20526 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: <005f01c13957$b6c3ae60$fefdb5d8@oemcomputer> To: Subject: Re: Theos-World Joining Theosophy Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:49:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Andra Baylus" Dear Nos, Thank you for responding so quickly! Could you please tell me what Namaste means? In God's Love, Andra -----Original Message----- From: nos To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:37 PM Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy >HI Andra, > >I got your message fine! > >Namaste > >Nos > > > >##-----Original Message----- >##From: Andra Baylus [mailto:arb@kreative.net] >##Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2001 2:14 PM >##To: theos-talk@theosophy.com >##Subject: Theos-World Joining Theosophy >## >## >##Dear Theos-Talk, >## There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested >##in joining a group that is associated with HP Blavadsky's >##Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any >##Theosophy Societies in the Wshington-Northrn Virginia area. >##Thank you for responding. In God's Love, >## Andra >## >## >##[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >## >## >## >## >##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >## >## > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From etvionbb@netvision.net.il Sun Sep 09 12:42:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: etvionbb@netvision.net.il X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 19:42:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 83984 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 19:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 19:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgw1.netvision.net.il) (194.90.1.14) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 19:42:29 -0000 Received: from LocalHost (ras1-p408.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.168]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA20835 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:42:24 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <005a01c1396f$f796e8e0$4391003e@LocalHost> To: References: <005f01c13957$b6c3ae60$fefdb5d8@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Theos-World Joining Theosophy Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:42:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Etzion Becker" Dear Andra, namaste is like *shalom*. In sanskrit it means, offering my respects unto you. Etzion > Dear Nos, > Thank you for responding so quickly! Could you please tell me what > Namaste means? > In God's Love, > Andra > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nos > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:37 PM > Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy > > > >HI Andra, > > > >I got your message fine! > > > >Namaste > > > >Nos > > > > > > > >##-----Original Message----- > >##From: Andra Baylus [mailto:arb@kreative.net] > >##Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2001 2:14 PM > >##To: theos-talk@theosophy.com > >##Subject: Theos-World Joining Theosophy > >## > >## > >##Dear Theos-Talk, > >## There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested > >##in joining a group that is associated with HP Blavadsky's > >##Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any > >##Theosophy Societies in the Wshington-Northrn Virginia area. > >##Thank you for responding. In God's Love, > >## Andra > >## > >## > >##[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >## > >## > >## > >## > >##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >## > >## > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 13:32:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 9 Sep 2001 20:32:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 76648 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2001 20:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2001 20:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2001 20:32:11 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0266.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.31.11]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f89KVxt24294; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:31:59 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Moderators consider: 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 3 Evolutionary schemes, 3 GOALS of Evolution Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:25:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: 09/09/2001 Dear Friend: On the physical plane as H P B writes (your quote below via Adelasie) nothi= ng on the physical plane (or any other, except the ABSOLUTE -- which is out= of our reach ) remains static.=20=20 Motion is one of the 3 absolutes: 1. SPACE --=20 2. MOTION (and LAWS of moving) --=20 3. EVOLUTION of individual and personal CONSCIOUSNESS).=20 TIME When we approach TIME we are given 2 standards one is our physical t= ime/observation, and the other pertains to DURATION which is again "part" o= f the ABSOLUTENESS. [ S D I 37, 43-4, Trans p. 11-12; MAHATMA LETTERS = p. 194;=20=20 The 3 lines of Evolution ( S D I 181 ) which intertwine at all points (as= innate to all MONADS) seem to indicate there are 3 standards:=20=20 1. SPIRIT ( Wisdom and Purity, universality and impartiality, generosity),= =20=20 2. MIND ( Willing and Thinking, ratiocination, logic, memory, action, etc.= ) and,=20 3. MATTER (feeling, emotion, passion, anger, desire, impulse, selfishness,= and transitory as all achievements are dispersed at death).=20=20 EVOLUTION The purpose of Evolution appears to be the transformation of passion and de= sire into reasoned cooperation. It is the plane of the INDIVIDUAL where th= e Higher Mind learns to control and direct the Lower Mind along the lines o= f universality, impersonality, humility, generosity and unselfishness. Thi= s is why UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD is emphasized - it describes and is a part o= f this major process of living, and covers reincarnation, Karma and the Gro= wth of the Personal Soul (Lower Mind) into a voluntary compliance with the = impartial universal Laws of Nature. In the BHAGAVAD GITA one comes across the s-fold division (Gunas) that Kris= hna the Sage uses: 1. SATTVA -- Purity, Truth, Universality, Stability [ Also a plane or cond= ition where the ATMA portion of the Monad resides in total harmony with the= UNIVERSAL SPIRIT (of which it is a "ray" ] Under the universal impulse of= the CAUSELESS CAUSE all such Atmic "rays" have vowed in the distant past t= o assist in the evolution of all Monads of lower experience and intelligenc= e who are involved in the lower aspects of evolution: elemental, mineral, = vegetable, and animal forms. All material evolution tries to evolve the el= ements of a totally sensitive human form in which the MIND and the "Monads"= (ATMA / BUDDHI) are able to reflect outwardly the INNER WISDOM they all po= ssess equally. Hence the old statement: "Look inward. Thou art Buddha." 2. RAJAS -- Activity, Emotion, Thought, Mental powers, Will, etc... [ = Also a position which can be called broadly the MIND. It feels, desires, t= hinks, plans, knows the difference between "good and evil" -- that is the t= wo sides of cooperative living: lawfulness and disorder, or idealism and e= vil doing, and it makes free-willed choices concerning these. This is a cen= tral organ for the learning phase, where, through the response of pleasure= and pain, we learn what is valuable to universal progress, and brotherhood= .] and,=20 =20 3. TAMAS -- Inertia, laziness, repose, selfishness, isolation, etc.... = The false idea that beatitude and bliss consist in doing NOTHING -- what = do we do with the boredom of Nirvana or Moksha ? -- In essence, "Primordia= l Matter" is of the same potential as SPIRIT. But it "chooses" to provide = an "opposite Pole" so that the increments in Conscious intelligence may beg= in and proceed by individual effort towards the common Goal [ SUBLIME PERFE= CTION ] which can be summarized in the world "UNITY."=20 RESPONSIBILITY=09 At present is=20 1. to learn these basic ideas and add them or fit them into the memories of= knowledge and wisdom we already have installed. 2. to verify their accuracy, just as we verify the accuracy of the terrestr= ial knowledge we have been taught in school, in religion, at home, and else= where up to now -- on which our society and communal living is based. 3. to pass on to others our discoveries -- not because we have become "auth= orities," but because a study of Nature and her operating Laws is a necessi= ty for and by all of us. They have to do their own research and test and v= erify anything we offer. WISDOM One important observation: WISDOM CAN NEVER BE SOLD. It can be earned and= the pupil is always indebted to a true, honest and sincere teacher. If wi= sdom could be sold or if any one pretends that magical secrets and personal= powers can be passed on to a purchaser, then obviously, such vendors have = not succeeded at all. If what they offered for money were in their grasp, = they would be rich and powerful,. And would not have to pretend to able to = "sell" their ideas. Only the gullible and those who are impetuous fall int= o those traps. If one reviews the history of the many religions in the world one will find= at their root they have identical teachings -- and in fact have sprung fro= m the ONE SOURCE: THEOSOPHY. What has happened is that progressively, over time, the clever and the sly = took over the great philosophical reform, and made of it a paying concern i= n which the gullible and the thoughtless are ensnared. Free thought is dis= couraged. "Faith" and "belief" are suggested and implanted to prevent the = free mind (which is in all) from working and making the people independent = of a priesthood as it ought to be. God has been transformed from a UNIVER= SAL PRINCIPLE -- a portion of which resides potential in all of us, and in = every least thing -- into a PERSON who can be teased, prayed to, praised, a= nd cajoled into apparently breaking His own Laws and those of equity and br= otherhood in the Universe -- and the horror of this situation is that many = millions believe it is possible. But this is much to think about and to verify to see if such views are true= at base. Best wishes as always,=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: T---9 Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 1:17 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: OUR PURPOSE IN THE UNIVERSE -- What would a sage say? In a message dated 9/7/2001 10:02:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adelasie@surfari.net writes: Quote from HPB: > Nothing > on earth has real duration, for nothing remains without change-or > the same-for the billionth part of a second; and the sensation we > have of the actuality of the division of "time" known as the > present, comes from the blurring of that momentary glimpse, or > succession of glimpses, of things that our senses give us, as those > things pass from the region of ideals which we call the future, to > the region of memories that we name the past. ....The real > person or thing does not consist solely of what is seen at any > particular moment, but is composed of the sum of all its various > and changing conditions from its appearance in the material form > to its disappearance from the earth. It is these "sum-totals" that > exist from eternity in the "future," and pass by degrees through > matter, to exist for eternity in the "past." .....Even so of persons > and things, which, dropping out of the to-be into the has-been, > out of the future into the past - present momentarily to our senses > a cross-section, as it were, of their total selves, as they pass > through time and space (as matter) on their way from one eternity > to another: and these two constitute that "duration" in which alone > anything has true existence, were our senses but able to cognize it > there. Hello Moderators, My My, how that dear old lady does write. It is as if she reaches into the very heart of eternity and pulls out echoes of truths, long forgotten. In t= he above passage, I am struck by how fleeting the illusion of the present real= ly is. How tiny our moment to moment actions are, caught up as they are, betwe= en two eternity's. Yet, how crucial our role for invoking futures yet undreame= d of. What an awesome power we have. Since eternity is the home of the ABSOLUTE ALL, as it were, our momentary present in the physical can only be a constant illusion, due to constant change. CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 17:08:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 00:08:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 21044 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 00:08:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 00:08:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 00:08:38 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0761.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.251]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f8A08Yt26958; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: mitigating Karma Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 17:02:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <85.fa9d21e.28cccaee@aol.com> From: Sunday, September 09, 2001 Dear Friends: Re: VIOLET FLAME and KARMA If it made any sense then Nature's laws would be void. If one gives thought to the fact that it is NATURE ( or "God in manifestation") that provides all the life conditions all the time, then any violation of NATURE'S ( GOD'S) laws would bring about the complete chaotic destruction of all life-support systems everywhere. We are not dealing with a "Personal God" to whom is attributed any kind of lawlessness at His whim or pleasure. We are dealing with hard facts and laws that will not work for some people and not for others. One need only push any desire, thought, conclusion to its ULTIMATE CONCLUSION to see exactly what the effect of a single disjointed "breakage" would do. We all have that capacity of thinking. We all have as a result of thee being a "ray" of the GOD-SPIRIT within each of us, the capacity by INTUITION to know if any proposed choice or action will be "good" (meaning LAWFUL FOR EVERYONE) or "bad" ( meaning UNLAWFUL FOR EVERYONE). A clear idea of the distinction between good and bad is offered by Theosophy. Good is that which is done according to the laws of harmony, generosity, virtue and brotherhood. Bad is that which is done for selfish purposes, which is done viciously, which is done for personal profit regardless of any harm to another, that which permits violence, war, torture, and starvation or non-treatment of disease. It is easy to see that the distinction is clear. And, we all know it in our hearts. But evil men with selfish intentions that desire wealth and power over others have devised the concept of a Personal God who can be prayed to, propitiated with false praise, treated as a whimsical child, fawned on, cajoled, in the hope that waving his magic wand or exercising his powers evil that is due to come to us will somehow be mitigated or erased. Do we really believe we live in such a universe ? Do we really believe that many religions are allowed to flourish for centuries and millennia without check -- if they are wrong? Do people sincerely believe that any group of priests, in any religious system that has become dogmatic, creedal, orthodox, has the whole truth and has usurped the supreme powers of a UNIVERSAL GOD -- solely for the temporary benefit (until they or we die) of a small community ? And further, that this community, living at present on this puny planet, lost in the vast expanses of SPACE has the power to decide on the fate of the whole Universe, not to mention every human living in and on this World ? This situation is ludicrous, once that one has taken into account the facts and proofs that science and philosophy offer us. But, it is still up to us to decide what we will choose. Why are we allowed choice? Why are religious wars fought? Why does one group believe it is their duty to subdue unknown persons whose sole fault is that they were born into a religion other than theirs ? Why is there this dark prejudice that overtakes our power of thought? Have we sought to understand it ? Do we really think that the power of a "violet flame" will somehow mitigate Karma ? Will it shut off good or bad Karma? Why has this remained a secret for such a long time? If true, who has dared to withhold this knowledge from others ? There are a dozen pertinent questions that can be asked. Best wishes, Dallas ==================== -----Original Message----- From: Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 6:39 AM To: Subject: RE: mitigating Karma Subject: Violet flame...? What is going on with this article on the violet flame? The article is in the SpritWeb dot com's Theosophy Corner...It says stuff about erasing Karma [!] Anybody care to comment on the validity of this? Being wrapped up in any "facet" of Theosophy is something that is very easy to get caught up in , that many of us have come in contact with this in its many various forms is not to say that that facet has no value or is worthless ,just a warning from wisdoms' voice that says to investigate and comprehend . Yes Theosophy states that sound and color has intensive and profound depths of meaning but also says that , as the student moves on through the teachings these "facets" will become more apparent and that there is no need to make them a "thing" in themselves.. Finding in Nature appropriate value is inherent in the path shown by Theosophy. What wiser students have found is the truth of those facets and see them in a well rounded concept in various degrees without distortion. And yes , these facets are to be studied , as it adds to that "sacred" store that the student inherits but like all "facets" they only enhance but cannot nor should not cover up the central ideation that Theosophy brings forward ,such as the true meaning of Universal Brotherhood , non-sectarianism , compassion , and so forth. Mitigation of Karma is fine , but be warned as to the right-ness of that mitigation. If it is only "blockage by force" then be aware that no "part" can "block" the whole of one's nature or of Universal Nature. G'D who knows you as you truly are will adjust accordingly according to Sacred Law which no man can escape. The aphorisms given by Dallas hold the key. Well, enough said. From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Sep 09 17:17:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 00:17:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 31080 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 00:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 00:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 00:17:40 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (nycmny1-ar4-4-43-236-042.elnk.dsl.gtei.net [4.43.236.42]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19215 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B9C06AC.E90E34AF@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 20:17:48 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] RE: The Astral Plane as an electro-magnetic network of forces. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky dalval14@earthlink.net wrote: > Re Astral matter -- its constitution > > Astral Matter and electro-magnetic field of forces. It is an > analogy. OK. > To many the answer it is GRAVITY that does this rather then > electro-magnetism on a colossal scale -- because we have a > convention in place that identifies elctro-magnetism to the > phenomena of attraction and repulsion relating to a few elements: > Iron, Cobalt, Nickel, Manganese (these 4 I believe). Those are the magnetic metals, at least at room temperature (when you go near absolute zero, a lot more materials exhibit magnetic properties), but is only a small subset of things which exhibit electromagnetic forces (the other known forces are gravitational, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). So far, there is no known unexplained phenomenon which can be explained by the existence of a 5th force, nor a way of combining two or more known forces into one. However, that does not mean that a 5th force does not exist, or that one or more of the 4 known forces are not a result of a yet to be discovered, more generalized cause (this is the trap many self-styled scientific skeptics find themselves caught in; they fail to differentiate between "unproven", "disproven", and "non-existent"). > Other elements hardly react to intense electro-magnetic fields. Depends on what you mean by "hardly". Look, for example, of what the results of a strong EMP will do; in theory, a machine can be built with current technology at sub-government costs that could generate an EMP strong enough to wipe clean the information in human brains at non-neglible distances. > But to continue this line of Theosophical inquiry, we ought to > further ask: what set limits and parameters to the Astral forms > that underlie the physical ? Are they pertaining to the "Pranic" > and then, below that, to the "Kamic" planes ? Where are the real > limits set ? Who, and how are they set ? Interesting question. The problem is that, currently, we have no way of measuring any of these (or even create an operational definition of those "planes"). Of course, this simply means that they are in the realm of philosophy, and not yet science; the trick is to not confuse the two with each other. Bart Lidofsky From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Sep 09 17:38:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 00:38:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 91307 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 00:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 00:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 00:38:26 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (nycmny1-ar4-4-43-236-042.elnk.dsl.gtei.net [4.43.236.42]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29010 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B9C0B8C.C894DCFE@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 20:38:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Joining Theosophy References: <005f01c13957$b6c3ae60$fefdb5d8@oemcomputer> <005a01c1396f$f796e8e0$4391003e@LocalHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Etzion Becker wrote: > > Dear Andra, namaste is like *shalom*. In sanskrit it means, offering my > respects unto you. Etzion Of course, the proper response to "Namaste" is "Nice day to you, too." Bart Lidofsky From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Sep 09 18:37:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 01:37:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 7980 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 01:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 01:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.123) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 01:37:32 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0437.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.147.182]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14273; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:37:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Truth(as love) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 18:30:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net The only thing that eliminates "fear" is "KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUE." The problem is to accumulate o fund of things that you know to be true because you have proved them to yourself. All the rest can be classified under "FIND OUT." It would be an interesting exercise to make up a list. For instance you might under the HEADING " I known" say" 1 I know I exist here in this physical body. 2. I know that one of my faculties is thinking 3. I know that I am able to "feel" pain, "joy.", suffering, happiness, doubt, and that basically "feeling" is a statement of uncertainty -- something yet to be verified. [ The 2nd part of this is to be filed under : FIND OUT .] 4. I know the UNIVERSE EXISTS. 5. I know I am a part of it. 6. I know that most of the events I know of run under Law or Laws. But there are many yet to be found out. 7. I know that there is a multitude of relationships between me and the various other parts and beings in this Universe. ... and so on See if this line of consideration is of help Best wishes, Dallas ========================= -----Original Message----- From: CeeKaye [mailto:christina@md.prestige.net] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:17 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: Truth(as love) Fear may be the result of ignorance [as in my case] Growing up in this generation, i've consciously or subconsciously functioned on what experiences i had. Here, i learn this: Aspiration is synonymous with ambition. AMBITION applies to the desire for personal advancement or preferment and may suggest equally a praiseworthy or an inordinate desire . ASPIRATION implies a striving after something higher than oneself and usually implies that the striver is thereby ennobled . If i aspire to become something here, i want to become AWAKE and ENLIGHTENED by TRUTH. Fear: 1 a : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion 2 : anxious concern : SOLICITUDE 3 : profound reverence and awe especially toward God 4 : reason for alarm : DANGER synonyms FEAR, DREAD, FRIGHT, ALARM, PANIC, TERROR, TREPIDATION mean painful agitation in the presence or anticipation of danger. FEAR is the most general term and implies anxiety and usually loss of courage . Either fear or courage are enforced emotional experiences [enforced by family, parents, peers, et cetera] As ignorant human beings born unto this plane of existence, fear is an unfortunate inheritance. Now Love: the first three definitions are 1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests but we are concerned with the fourth: 4a : unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another: as (1) : the fatherly concern of God for humankind (2) : brotherly concern for others b : a person's adoration of God. Could you elaborate on what you mean by love being the same as living without fear? [sorry, i don't get it] =o) -----Original Message----- From: Julien Maclou [mailto:robin_kalfat@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:35 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: Truth(as love) Hello everyone, I would like to talk a little bit more about truth as love; I understand the basis of the theosophical society is the love and brotherhood of humanity. But do any of us really know what this is? It seems the only way we can understand love is by utter self-abandonment, which is really to live without fear. Along with this is the belief in reincarnation, I am not here judging weather it is true or not, that is not the point. The point is it leads people into a false sense of security. Because deep down human beings fear their own death and out of this fear we try to give ourselves continuity, by postulating reincarnation. Fear is a result of self-centredness and we cover it up, this is where my concern is. We are holding beliefs and ideas with are really working against us. Also at times aspiration is used as a word instead of ambition, this has the potential to cause confusion, the whole idea of spiritual progress feeds ambition and many students replace this ambition with a word called aspiration. All this breeds further self-centredness. That is why we may need a different approach altogether. I invite anyone reading this to send his or her comments about this subject. Kind regards Robin. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [christina@md.prestige.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-6660817A@lists.lyris.net From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 06:05:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 13:05:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 52026 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 13:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:34 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0039.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.39]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA03972; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:02:03 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] The story of Jesus hIS SECRET LIFE Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 05:55:27 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net 09/10/2001 2:55 AM Dear Friend: Here are some good references on Jesus and his life many are found in ISIS UNVEILED and others are snippets from here and there Here is a sampling: ISIS UNVEILED I U I 127 Iassou And Ebionites [ see also I U II 127fn, 135fn, 201-2, 304-5 I U I 319, 182, 191-2 [ Logia -- teachings "his words" ] Vol. II I U II 537-9 (compared to Krishna and Buddha) I U II 127-8, 131-4, 135fn, 139, 151, 181-2, 201, 289-92 , 304, [ On Jesus ] I U II 255 & fn, 73, 339-40fn, 545, 566 [Jesus' death ] I U II 201, 386 & fn, [ son of Panthera (Pandira)] (see also H P B Articles Vol. I 117; Vol. III 180-1; LUCIFER, Vol. 3, 158; T Glos p. 248; ) [ Initiate "Ben-Panthera"-- H P B Articles III 175, 180fn, 192, 228; ] I U II 341 [Jesus and Apollonius of Tyanna -- also H P B Articles III 191fn ] I U II 73, 163-4, 550-3, 563, 365-6, [ Preached Buddhism ] I U II 33-4, 150-1, 249-50, [ Essenian Adept -- Galilean S D II 231 ] I U II 126, 163, 165, 527, [ rejected Mosaic Law and Bible -- S D I 576-8,] I U II 145 [ taught reincarnation ] I U II 150, 193, 239, 393, 455, 544 [no record of him as an incarnate God ] I U II 307 [ Secret Teachings ] I U II 201-2 [ Initiated in Egypt] I U II 337-9, 361, [ Ethics taught ] THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY T G pp. 109 top, 156-7 top Jesus lived 100 B C [ I U II 386, B: CW Vol. 8, p. 382. ] T G pp. 76-7 (corresponds to Krishna -- see also H.P.Blavatsky Art I 248; ISIS UNVEILED II 537-9). T G p 152 I H S -- Labrum -- Jesus' Father not Jehovah T G p. 108-9 Iassou and Ebionites. The "poor" Jesus' relatives ( I U I 127) T G p. 227 Nazarenes [ also SECRET DOCTRINE I xxxv, 198fn, ] T G p. 248 Pandera / Panthera Father of SECRET DOCTRINE S D I 198fn, I xxxv, Nazarenes, Sabeans, Nabatheans S D I 653 Birthday unknown Vol. II S D II 96fn Nazarenes & Jesus S D II 518 is 888 S D II 560-2, 586-7, [ crucifixion of Jesus ?] S D II 509 [ Father not Jehovah] OTHER REFERENCES THEOSOPHY Mag. Vol. 49, p. 462 (On System of the Nazarenes ) LUCIFER Vol. 19, 381 (Nazarenes relation to Ebionites) ESOTERIC CHARACTER OF THE GOSPELS ( see Footnotes many on Jesus -- H P B Articles III p. 168...] BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 4, p.232;, 361; Theos Mvt. Mag, Vol. 27, p. 134; Vol. 43, p. 210; I U II 43-4, 386fn; [ See also H P B discussion with Abbe Rocca: BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. 8, p 372; THEOSOPHIST MAG. Vol. 4, p. 144; There are many more references, but perhaps these will help as a beginning Dal ============================== -----Original Message----- From: estela piscope [mailto:episcope@fcc.net] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 2:11 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] The story of Jesus Cassandra - The proposition that Jesus was secretly married to Magdalena and lusted after her is old news, conjured up by those who would deviate others from the path of Spiritual Evolution. A few years ago, an Italian film producer filmed the life of Jesus along those lines, it caused an uproar in Italy, and among Catholics seeing their Saviour so denigrated. Oh yes, the story of Mary (mother of Jesus) being secretly entangled with a Roman soldier (before she was forced to marry Joseph) was written up in the Times magazine about 15 years ago in their attempt to discredit Christianity. They postulated that perhaps Jesus was the son of that Roman soldier. Time magazine also did a story on Jesus's crucifixion which hypothesized that he didn't die on the cross but was brought down in time and was able to recover. Now, that story has a kernel of historical truth. (I am in the process of hunting down those two featured articles, if anyone knows of them, please email me the information.) It would be more enlightening to read the books by Holger Kersten " Jesus lived in India" and "The Jesus Conspiracy". He follows the hints and statements that HPB wrote about Jesus and the origins of Christianity. He actually made journeys through those regions to verify her statements. "This compelling book presents irrefutable evidence that Jesus did indeed live in India, dying there in old age. The result of many years investigative research, Jesus Lived in India takes the reader to all the historical sites connected with Jesus in Israel, the Middle East, Afghanistan and India. As well as revealing age-old links between the Israelites and the East, the evidence found by theologian Holger Kersten points to the following startling conclusions: " In his youth Jesus followed the ancient Silk Road to India. While there he studied Buddhism, adopting its tenets and becoming a spiritual master. Jesus survived the crucifixion. After the "resurrection" Jesus returned to India, to die in old age. Jesus was buried in Srinagar, the capitol of Kashmir, where he continues to be revered as a saintly man. The tomb of Jesus still exists in Kashmir." CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 06:05:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 13:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 94859 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 13:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:26 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0039.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.39]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA04589; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:02:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and the Uiverse in Evolution Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 05:55:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 10, 2001 Dear Friends: Excuse me if I offer some information to place a little more perspective in this matter: Here is a snippet of history from one who observed much of this at close hand for over 30 years. To epitomize it is painful, and only the barest superficial depiction is possible. The philosophy and the practice of the Sikhs was originally established as an effort to reconcile in an impartial and protective way, some of the more sanguinary religious differences between the Muslims and the Hindus. As far as I know, all Mystical brotherhoods that were erected to serve BROTHERHOOD, have as a common ideal, the tenets of the Wisdom Religion: Theosophy . I would say that the Sufis, the Druzes, and the Sikhs have tenets in common as regards the ethics of their "faith." This seems to have shown itself as an attempt to erect a responsible and impartial protective shield in areas where wars are proceeding. But this type of effort is to be found as far back as one is able to trace the records of history. The "Templars, "Hospitaliers," and the "Masons" in the West are part of this effort of impartial protection to be extended to the needy, and the suffering. Although the Templars and the Hospitalier knights have been eliminated, the Masons are able to continue in their chosen field of assistance. The philosophy and the injunctions offered to the Sikhs can be read from the GRANTH SAHEB -- the teachings put into book form -- a book written by their first Guru: Nanak. It is in the Golden Temple in Amritsar. A number of "Gurus" have succeeded Nanak, and held and augmented the sect of the Free Brothers. The title "SINGH" used by all the Sikhs is translated "tiger" usually. It implies their independence and position as free kings of the jungles of life. As such, they are pledged to extend their protection equally to all who are weak, poor, defenseless, to pilgrims, and to women and children and the dispossessed. Many were forced to take refuge in the Himalayan mountains, and others were more recently scattered all over India as they escaped from the terrible slaughter at the un-policed and de-militarized frontiers of Pakistan and India in 1947-48. But I am sure that this brief characterization does them (the Sikhs, as a protective group) little service in depicting their ideals and the responsibilities they are pledged to assume. A mystical Sikh philosopher and teacher, would be able to give us a far clearer view of their philosophy and the ethics that are its idealized guides in their lives. The Sikhs were also created to be the "bridge" that would harmonize the religious differences between the invading Muslims from Afghanistan, Central Asia (Mongols) and Persia, and the resident Hindus in Northern India. The membership and brotherhood received members from both the Muslim and the Hindu factions. To give a brief survey of history in India from roughly the 10th to the 19th Century is: The Mogul, Persian, and Afghan invasions (beginning through the Khyber Pass in the 9th/10th Century) were resisted for many years in North West India. Many Hindu Rajas confederated in this resistance, but as it was gradually overcome, they retired to desert, or, to Mountain strongholds in the Himalayas, others retreated south to the Deccan plateaus and to remote ranges of mountains and hills -- and maintained a precarious and gradually eroded independence. But those Hindu kingdoms, in the lush Indo-Gangetic plains from West to East were conquered and gradually subjugated by the Mogul Emperors and their armies followed by their administrators. They culminated in the establishment of the MOGUL (Mongol) Empire in Northern India. It consisted of the strip of land along the Indus river now called Pakistan, and Kashmir, then the flat lands immediately below the Himalayan range stretching from the Punjab, Agra, Delhi, to Bengal. In later years this empire, as it expanded southward towards the rich plains and plateaus of Hyderabad, Maharashtra, Mysore and Madras, and the Coromandel and Malabar coastal kingdoms, came into conflict with the East India Company (16/17th Century) -- as it claimed more and more coastal territory for trade. The last Mogul emperor, Bahadur Shah, who had made an alliance with the "mutineers," was defeated, as the British (c. 1859/60) recovered the lands lost during the "Sepoy Mutiny (1857/8)." He was banished to Burma with his family -- to live out his days in isolation. The invading Muslims (from a period beginning in the 10th Century to the 16th), to obtain a political base favorable to them in India, encouraged the "untouchables," the "Chandalas," and those innumerable casteless groups in India to become Muslim. This gave them a status and a protection which they never had under Hinduism. These conversions brought a large resident Islamic group into being, from among the natives of the country, whose interest was to support the reigning Muslim (Mogul) Emperors. When in 1947/8 Pakistan was created by the departing political power of Britain, many religious groups fearing entrapment and victimization if they were to be residents in territories dominated by an antagonistic (in their view) religio-political group, decided to trek away from their homes and travel from Pakistan to India, or, from India to Pakistan. Bandits, pirates, fanatics and goondas seized the opportunity to kill these defenseless and innocent ones, to pillage their valuables, and great slaughter (in the millions) occurred. Mahatma Gandhi brought this to an end. But he was soon assassinated. The Sikhs in the Punjab were also made victims by the Muslims of Pakistan and great slaughter occurred as the peasants and merchants trekked towards the supposed safety of India. The Sikhs sought to protect all. But most of what happened is relatively undocumented and only "educated guesses" can be made of what actually occurred in the enormous transfer of peoples from the newly formed countries. Excuse this brief but poignant looking back at a period of violence and unnecessary fanaticism and greed which mars the history of our world in the east. It compares in a way with the genocide practiced in Germany against the Jews and other smaller groups considered "undesirable." Best wishes, Dallas ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Wheeler [mailto:ultinla@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:52 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and the Uiverse in Evolution Fadi, do what your heart tells you, it's the best guide. jerome p.s. Are Sikhs from the Sufi lineage?? From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 06:05:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 13:05:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 95948 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0039.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.39]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA05515; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:02:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and the Uiverse in Evolution Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 05:56:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 10, 2001 Dear Fadi: Very interesting as the inflexion being implied among those who know a language modern or ancient, is I agree a deterrent to an accurate PHYSICAL or LITERAL translation. Now I understand why it is said that no accurate translation can be had. Yes, do study the information given in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) the 7-fold nature of Universal and Man are interesting and ought to have correlations with Sufi mysticism. I do not think you ought to be deterred from giving ISIS UNVEILED a read. H P B does not condemn it as such in MY BOOKS; she is candid about the errors that crept into it. Any one of fair education and bright intelligence can get around the errors. I do not know if you have secured a separate copy of an INDEX to ISIS UNVEILED which is available. -- and if you want I can send you a copy (providing you trust me with your mailing address. You will find the INDEX gives a greater depth to ideas and meanings. It also provides at time the needed continuity There is however a valuable book to be used when dealing with the "foreign" ideas and words of old scriptures. The THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY ( by H P B and her co-worker G R S MEAD) has this capacity. I have been using it for over 60 years and have been able to check out the sources of most of the items and explanations there. In fact it is one of the most interesting of books, if one is inclined that way. In some cases it gives information not to be found elsewhere. I still think it important after studying the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) to read ISIS UNVEILED once, and then pass on to the reading of The SECRET DOCTRINE . But before that, even, it must be mentioned that there are many Articles that H P B wrote which serve to link the 2 major books. ISIS UNVEILED was published in 1877 and between that date and 1888 (when The SECRET DOCTRINE was published) is a gap of 11 years. The time in between was used in producing the magazines: THEOSOPHIST (beginning 1879), LUCIFER (beginning 1887) and PATH (Published in New York under the editorship of H P B's close friend W Q Judge from 1886) Those articles are valuable to establishing the bridge between the 2 books. We here have reprinted verbatim the Articles H P B wrote in 3 volumes & Index. So they would be easily available for student use. Articles by Mr. Judge in PATH are in 2 separate volumes and Indexed. They are also Indexed. Best wishes to you, As always, Dallas =========================== -----Original Message----- From: Fadi Mansour [mailto:redeemer@scs-net.org] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 4:08 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] RE: The Seven Fold Constitution and the Uiverse in Evolution Dear Dallas, First things first. In what concerns the Arabic script, the ancient script used about 1000 years ago didn't have dots. As for vowels, the Arabic language contains three A (alef), O (waw) and Y (ya'). What I called "movements" (I dont' know the official translation) are signs added to letters to give an idea how this letter should be pronounced. While in general you don't need them, there are certain situations where the meaning can't be inferred without them. Their function is mainly grammatical because in Arabic different grammatical functions get different "movements" to their endings. So, while I agree that on one level this is mosly linguistics, but sometimes discovering the intended meaning will require knowledge of the structure of the language. This is the main argument against traslations. In Islamic tradition, traslations are never held at the same level as the original, because a translation (or even an explanation in Arabic) holds the point of view of the one doing the translation (explanation). I think this relates to what is being discussed about truth and observation. In what concens your over-view of Theosophy, I'm greatly thankful, and I'm trying to read "The Key to Theosophy". I postponed reading "Isis Unveiled" after skimming over "My Books" by HPB. Where she discouraged an asker from reading it. I still intended to read it but only gave it less priority. What do you think? Thank you for everything. Fadi On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 07:45:29AM -0700, Dallas TenBroeck wrote: > Friday, September 07, 2001 > > Dear Fadi: > > Many thanks for the explanation. > CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 06:07:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 13:07:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 95830 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 13:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 13:02:48 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0039.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.39]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA06195; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:02:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 05:56:10 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003d01c138ea$09d76ba0$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, September 10, 2001 Dear Andra Baylus: There is a UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS in Bethesda, Washington D C Their address is 4862 Cordell Ave., # A, Bethesda, MD, 20814 I believe they can be contacted at: 301-656-3566 (voice mail) They have a Web Page at http://www.ultdc.org/ I hope you will have no trouble contacting the I also believe they have a Sunday talk/study class on Sunday mornings. Welcome to the band of seekers for truth. We cover anything and everything asking always for the causative WHY ? Our sole bond is a deep belief in Universal brotherhood and we have no regard for the usual definitions of race, creed, color, sex, wealth, etc... All of us are regarded as SOULS - as Minds in search of a "mirror" from which an understanding of one's self is to be obtained, somehow. So all questions and comments are welcome. We look on phenomena as evidence of an underlying cause, a noumenon which has to harmonize with many other aspects of life. Some of these causes and laws seem very complex and perhaps have not yet been detected, explained or determined by Scientific effort and exploration, but, we are convinced that the economy of Nature demands order and reason in all things. Some of the Sciences like chemistry, physics, biology, engineering, astro-physics, and mathematics show evidence of definite laws in operation. But when we begin to consider the psychological and social sciences a great deal of speculation arises because of the two entities resident in every human. There is the rising intelligence that is summed up in instinct and desire from the physical, bodily side, [usually called the PERSONALITY -- mask = persona]. And, there is, in contrast, the descending voice of "conscience," and of intuitive experience, from the Wisdom and Mental side (a result of the accumulated experiences in past lives). This is [usually called the INDIVIDUALITY -- including a portion of the Universal Spirit, accumulated Wisdom of experience, and, 3, the Mind, the power to think, plan, remember, and review]. All seems to be contained in Nature, which appears to be an infinitely sensitive agent that acts on all beings as an "adjuster," and, does this harmonizing under laws which are exact, inflexible, and fair The main question then is WHY ? And this can include a personal question: WHY AM I HERE? What am I supposed to be doing? But let us go back in time to the beginning of the Theosophical exposition, when Mme. Blavatsky was in India, and see what she wrote then: When the THEOSOPHIST (the first monthly magazine for Theosophists) was first published in Oct. 1879 in Bombay ( Vol. I, p. 5) one of the first articles by H P B was WHAT ARE THE THEOSOPHISTS ? It is worth re-reading. [Reprints in H P B Articles -- U L T -- Vol. I p. 48; and, BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH); it is also on-line at BLAVATSKY NET. ] What does H P B say? (in summary) " [Theosophists are] ... "students of natural law, of ancient and modern philosophy, and...exact science." (p. 48)..."psychological sciences..." ( p. 49) ... "examine Spiritualism" ( p. 49) ... "the leading members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in India [ in 1879] are known to be very advanced students of occult phenomena"... (p. 50) ... "one of our many objects is to revive the work of Ammonius Saccas [ see early pages of the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ] and make various nations remember that they are the children "of one another." .... The Society as a body has no creed, as creeds are, but the shells around spiritual knowledge; and Theosophy is in its fruition, SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE ITSELF..." ( p. 50) ... [Theosophists are seekers] "for the final truth as to the ultimate essence of things." (p. 51) ... "...the religion of the Society is an algebraical equation in which so long as the sign = of equality is not omitted, each member is allowed to substitute his own...idiosyncrasies ..." ( p. 50) ... "all [Theosophists are] original thinkers and investigators" p. 51) ... "One need but worship the spirit of living nature, the invisible Cause, which is ever yet manifesting itself in its incessant results; the intangible, omnipotent, and omniscient Proteus" (p. 51)... " once that a student abandons the old and trodden highway of routine, and enters upon the solitary path of independent thought--Godward--he is a theosophist; an original thinker, a seeker after the eternal truth with "an inspiration of his own" to solve the universal problems." (p. 52). Theosophy presents a view of our Universe, our Earth and ourselves as related beings. As conscious and aware and states (broadly) that every thing from the atom to the galaxy has the same kind of internal mix, Also there seems to be an urge to learn that is innate in all of us. So far, our learning has largely concerned itself with the limitations of our environment and the struggle of the many scientific departments we know of, has been to discover what Mother "Nature" has installed in place so as to harmonize the many disparate and discordant entities that are assembled in and around us. One who is cautious and attentive will have noticed that the interactive nature of these is cooperative. It [Theosophy] starts with the premise: "If it is here, then there has to be a cause for its existence." So it looks into the causes for our universe, earth, and ourselves. It soon perceives and draws our attention to the great cyclic laws that seem to constantly serve as the guides and friends of our search and of our daily lives. It is presumed that all of us are involved and subject to these laws (just as Science points these out, in terms of mathematics, astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, sociology, philosophy, and even religions, when those are viewed historically from their origins, etc.). No, we are not "slaves," but as intelligent, self-conscious and self-choosing beings, we have the right to ask why, how, when, where, and "Why me ?". Among humans, the mind and its faculty of thinking, seems paramount. But there is a conflict with our independence and our desire to do as and when we please. This frequently starts conflicts with others. The only thing that has kept me interested in Theosophy is the fact that it explains so much that the commonly taught academic subjects of philosophy, science and religion do not. It makes the Earth, and the many situations we go through, more reasonable. But judge for yourself independently, as you proceed. Theosophy does NOT proselyte. It offers an ancient system of knowledge, history and with a precision that no other covers as well. You will not be told what to do or how to do it. As a system of informative practicality, you will find it places propositions before you that are logical and asks you to investigate and prove or disprove their validity. It does not insist that any one method be used, but allows full freedom to everyone -- something that they have already, and does not pretend to abridge it. It asks no more than an intelligent enthusiasm which leads the enquirer on to studying Nature and her secret ways of cooperation and her generosity in supporting all beings, even when she is abused. Wisdom cannot be bought or sold, it is always free for those who seek it -- but the search may prove long and arduous, and yet, at the end of many years and even lives, it will bring a view of the Universe that is unlimited and complete. Our position of duty and of responsibility gradually becomes clear to us -- but read below, and see if it is not also inspiring. If you desire to inquire into Theosophy, then a very simple but quite fundamental text (about 40 pages) titled AN EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY by Wm. Q. Judge will give you an overview. The larger text THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by Mme. Blavatsky gives a historical as well as a theoretical and practical synopsis of Theosophical views and doctrines. (308 pages) The great Text-Book THE SECRET DOCTRINE (BY Mme. Blavatsky) ought to be read after you assimilate what is said in the KEY, or THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY by Mr. W. Q. Judge. Those give a basis from which to understand the depths and breadths that can be studied by all. Best wishes, Dallas ========================================= Dear Theos-Talk, There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested in joining a group that is associated with H P Blavatsky's Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any Theosophy Societies in the Washington-Northern Virginia area. Thank you for responding. In God's Love, Andra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eldon@theosophy.com Mon Sep 10 07:09:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 14:09:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 25994 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 14:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 14:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pegasus.imagiware.com) (64.49.222.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 14:07:10 -0000 Received: from SCRIBE.theosophy.com (unknown [167.167.110.112]) by pegasus.imagiware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4E9DAFF4 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:07:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010910070252.00a35d90@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:07:02 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c138ea$09d76ba0$bbfdb5d8@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker Andra: In addition to the United Lodge of Theosophists branch that Dallas mentioned, the Theosophical Society [Adyar] has a branch in the Washington DC area. The following is from the directory of lodges for that T.S.: > WASHINGTON DC BRANCH [ADYAR] > >For more information, contact Gwendolyn Reece, President 202-332-1660. >Public programs are offered every Sunday at 3:00. > >5217 Wisconsin Ave, NW >2nd Floor, Suite 4 >Washington, DC 20012 The other major theosophical group, the Theosophical Society [Pasadena], does not currently have a branch in your area. -- Eldon Tucker ---- At 05:56 AM 9/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >Monday, September 10, 2001 > >Dear Andra Baylus: > > >There is a UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS in Bethesda, Washington D >C > >Their address is > >4862 Cordell Ave., # A, >Bethesda, MD, 20814 > >I believe they can be contacted at: 301-656-3566 (voice mail) > >They have a Web Page at http://www.ultdc.org/ > >I hope you will have no trouble contacting the I also believe >they have a Sunday talk/study class on Sunday mornings. > > >Welcome to the band of seekers for truth. We cover anything and >everything asking always for the causative WHY ? Our sole bond >is a deep belief in Universal brotherhood and we have no regard >for the usual definitions of race, creed, color, sex, wealth, >etc... All of us are regarded as SOULS - as Minds in search of a >"mirror" from which an understanding of one's self is to be >obtained, somehow. So all questions and comments are welcome. > >We look on phenomena as evidence of an underlying cause, a >noumenon which has to harmonize with many other aspects of life. >Some of these causes and laws seem very complex and perhaps have >not yet been detected, explained or determined by Scientific >effort and exploration, but, we are convinced that the economy of >Nature demands order and reason in all things. > >Some of the Sciences like chemistry, physics, biology, >engineering, astro-physics, and mathematics show evidence of >definite laws in operation. But when we begin to consider the >psychological and social sciences a great deal of speculation >arises because of the two entities resident in every human. >There is the rising intelligence that is summed up in instinct >and desire from the physical, bodily side, [usually called the >PERSONALITY -- mask = persona]. > >And, there is, in contrast, the descending voice of >"conscience," and of intuitive experience, from the Wisdom and >Mental side (a result of the accumulated experiences in past >lives). This is [usually called the INDIVIDUALITY -- including >a portion of the Universal Spirit, accumulated Wisdom of >experience, and, 3, the Mind, the power to think, plan, >remember, and review]. > >All seems to be contained in Nature, which appears to be an >infinitely sensitive agent that acts on all beings as an >"adjuster," and, does this harmonizing under laws which are >exact, inflexible, and fair > >The main question then is WHY ? And this can include a personal >question: WHY AM I HERE? What am I supposed to be doing? > >But let us go back in time to the beginning of the Theosophical >exposition, when Mme. Blavatsky was in India, and see what she >wrote then: > >When the THEOSOPHIST (the first monthly magazine for >Theosophists) was first published in Oct. 1879 in Bombay ( Vol. >I, p. 5) one of the first articles by H P B was WHAT ARE THE >THEOSOPHISTS ? It is worth re-reading. [Reprints in H P B >Articles -- U L T -- Vol. I p. 48; and, BLAVATSKY: Collected >Works (TPH); it is also on-line at BLAVATSKY NET. ] > >What does H P B say? (in summary) > >" [Theosophists are] ... "students of natural law, of ancient >and modern philosophy, and...exact science." (p. >48)..."psychological sciences..." ( p. 49) ... > >"examine Spiritualism" ( p. 49) ... > >"the leading members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in India [ in >1879] are known to be very advanced students of occult >phenomena"... (p. 50) ... > >"one of our many objects is to revive the work of Ammonius Saccas >[ see early pages of the KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) ] and make >various nations remember that they are the children "of one >another." .... The Society as a body has no creed, as creeds >are, but the shells around spiritual knowledge; and Theosophy >is in its fruition, SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE ITSELF..." ( p. 50) ... > >[Theosophists are seekers] "for the final truth as to the >ultimate essence of >things." (p. 51) ... > >"...the religion of the Society is an algebraical equation in >which >so long as the sign = of equality is not omitted, each member is >allowed to substitute his own...idiosyncrasies ..." ( p. 50) ... > >"all [Theosophists are] original thinkers and investigators" > p. 51) ... > >"One need but worship the spirit of living nature, the invisible >Cause, which is ever yet manifesting itself in its incessant >results; the intangible, omnipotent, and omniscient Proteus" >(p. 51)... > >" once that a student abandons the old and trodden highway of >routine, and enters upon the solitary path of independent >thought--Godward--he is a theosophist; an original thinker, a >seeker after the eternal truth with "an inspiration of his own" >to solve the universal problems." (p. 52). > > >Theosophy presents a view of our Universe, our Earth and >ourselves as related beings. As conscious and aware and states >(broadly) that every thing from the atom to the galaxy has the >same kind of internal mix, Also there seems to be an urge to >learn that is innate in all of us. > >So far, our learning has largely concerned itself with the >limitations of our environment and the struggle of the many >scientific departments we know of, has been to discover what >Mother "Nature" has installed in place so as to harmonize the >many disparate and discordant entities that are assembled in and >around us. One who is cautious and attentive will have noticed >that the interactive nature of these is cooperative. > >It [Theosophy] starts with the premise: "If it is here, then >there has to be a cause for its existence." So it looks into the >causes for our universe, earth, and ourselves. It soon perceives >and draws our attention to the great cyclic laws that seem to >constantly serve as the guides and friends of our search and of >our daily lives. > >It is presumed that all of us are involved and subject to these >laws (just as Science points these out, in terms of mathematics, >astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, sociology, philosophy, >and even religions, when those are viewed historically from their >origins, etc.). No, we are not "slaves," but as intelligent, >self-conscious and self-choosing beings, we have the right to ask >why, how, when, where, and "Why me ?". > >Among humans, the mind and its faculty of thinking, seems >paramount. But there is a conflict with our independence and our >desire to do as and when we please. This frequently starts >conflicts with others. > >The only thing that has kept me interested in Theosophy is the >fact that it explains so much that the commonly taught academic >subjects of philosophy, science and religion do not. It makes >the Earth, and the many situations we go through, more >reasonable. > >But judge for yourself independently, as you proceed. Theosophy >does NOT proselyte. It offers an ancient system of knowledge, >history and with a precision that no other covers as well. You >will not be told what to do or how to do it. > >As a system of informative practicality, you will find it places >propositions before you that are logical and asks you to >investigate and prove or disprove their validity. It does not >insist that any one method be used, but allows full freedom to >everyone -- something that they have already, and does not >pretend to abridge it. > >It asks no more than an intelligent enthusiasm which leads the >enquirer on to studying Nature and her secret ways of cooperation >and her generosity in supporting all beings, even when she is >abused. Wisdom cannot be bought or sold, it is always free for >those who seek it -- but the search may prove long and arduous, >and yet, at the end of many years and even lives, it will bring a >view of the Universe that is unlimited and complete. Our >position of duty and of responsibility gradually becomes clear to >us -- but read below, and see if it is not also inspiring. > >If you desire to inquire into Theosophy, then a very simple but >quite fundamental text (about 40 pages) titled AN EPITOME OF >THEOSOPHY by Wm. Q. Judge will give you an overview. The larger >text THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by Mme. Blavatsky gives a historical as >well as a theoretical and practical synopsis of Theosophical >views and doctrines. (308 pages) The great Text-Book THE SECRET >DOCTRINE (BY Mme. Blavatsky) ought to be read after you >assimilate what is said in the KEY, or THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY by >Mr. W. Q. Judge. Those give a basis from which to understand the >depths and breadths that can be studied by all. > > >Best wishes, > >Dallas > >========================================= > >Dear Theos-Talk, > There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested in >joining a group that is associated with H P Blavatsky's >Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any Theosophy >Societies in the Washington-Northern Virginia area. Thank you for >responding. >In God's Love, > Andra > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From DNisk98114@aol.com Mon Sep 10 14:53:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 10 Sep 2001 21:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 72808 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2001 21:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Sep 2001 21:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r10.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.106) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2001 21:52:12 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.91.101fe40b (3981) for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91.101fe40b.28ce8fe6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:51:34 EDT Subject: They did it!!! To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com UK Children Cause Earthquake in Giant Jump Around one million British school children succeeded in causing an earthquake on Friday, jumping up and down simultaneously in the world's largest scientific experiment. Thousands of schools around Britain were asked to send children out into the playgrounds at 11 a.m. (6:00 a.m. EDT) to jump up and down for a minute in the hope of creating a measurable quake. Organizers of the Giant Jump event, held to mark the launch of the government's Science Year, said it had been a success. "We're almost sure we had a million people out there jumping for us. We got some kind of result at every single seismometer around the country," Nigel Pain, director of Science Year, told Reuters. "We generated something like a hundredth of a serious earthquake -- that's not an enormous amount of energy but it's significant." The exact number of people taking part would have to be verified, but he said it was an unofficial world record. Early estimates suggested 75,000 tons of energy had been released during the minute of jumping. "Because it's dissipated across the whole country it didn't do very much damage. But drop that in one spot and it would have caused quite a big hole in the ground," he added. Over the next two weeks the results from around the country will be analyzed to see if the event registered on the Richter scale. Scientists said a million children with an average weight of 110 pounds jumping 20 times in a minute would release two billion joules of energy and trigger the equivalent of an earthquake measuring three on the Richter scale. From nos@granite.net.au Mon Sep 10 21:15:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 11 Sep 2001 04:15:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 65632 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2001 04:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2001 04:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2001 04:07:04 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-40.granite.net.au [203.38.211.105]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08231 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:37:45 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:40:49 +0930 Message-ID: <002201c13a77$bdbec580$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <005f01c13957$b6c3ae60$fefdb5d8@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 From: "nos" In india I was told, whether its true or not, it meant (roughly) - 'the immortal divine monad within me recognises and salutes the immortal divine monad in you (for they of course are one) ' ;) Cheers Nos (that=92s australian ;) ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Andra Baylus [mailto:arb@kreative.net]=20 ##Sent: Monday, 10 September 2001 3:19 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Re: Theos-World Joining Theosophy ## ## ##Dear Nos, ## Thank you for responding so quickly! Could you please=20 ##tell me what Namaste means? In God's Love, Andra ## ## ## ## -----Original Message----- ##From: nos ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Date: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:37 PM ##Subject: RE: Theos-World Joining Theosophy ## ## ##>HI Andra, ##> ##>I got your message fine! ##> ##>Namaste ##> ##>Nos ##> ##> ##> ##>##-----Original Message----- ##>##From: Andra Baylus [mailto:arb@kreative.net] ##>##Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2001 2:14 PM ##>##To: theos-talk@theosophy.com ##>##Subject: Theos-World Joining Theosophy ##>## ##>## ##>##Dear Theos-Talk, ##>## There seem to be many talk groups there. I am interested ##>##in joining a group that is associated with HP Blavadsky's=20 ##>##Theosophy. Also, I would like to know if there are any ##Theosophy=20 ##>Societies in the Wshington-Northrn Virginia area. ##Thank you for=20 ##>responding. In God's Love, ##>## Andra ##>## ##>## ##>##[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ##>## ##>## ##>## ##>## ##>##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to=20 ##>##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ##>## ##>## ##> ##> ##> ##> ##>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to=20 ##>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ##> ##> ## ## ##=20 ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to=20 ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 ## ## From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Sep 10 21:32:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 11 Sep 2001 04:32:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 38923 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2001 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Sep 2001 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m07.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.162) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2001 04:32:30 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.4f.110c5967 (3312) for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f.110c5967.28ceeda9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:31:37 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World They did it!!! To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com In a message dated 9/10/01 4:55:34 PM Central Daylight Time, DNisk98114@aol.com writes: << "We generated something like a hundredth of a serious earthquake -- that's not an enormous amount of energy but it's significant." >> Hmmm, now, if we can get 1,000,000 to march in step along a fault line... Chuck the Heretic From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 05:38:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 11 Sep 2001 12:38:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 72133 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2001 12:38:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2001 12:38:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2001 12:38:47 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0005.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.5]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA27233; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:35:16 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-Dal" Subject: Judge -- LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME -- Vol. I Letter 14, Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net W. Q. Judge: Letter 14, vol. 1 These are extracts taken from: LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME THAT HAVE HELPED ME DTB ================================================ Extracts taken from: Letter 14 Dear Jasper: What I wrote in my last is what may be properly said to earnest inquirers who show by their perseverance that they are not mere idle curiosity-seekers, desirous of beguiling the tedium of life with new experiments and sensations. It is not what is done, but the spirit in which the least thing is done for Them who are all, that is counted. You ask the names of the seven rays or lodges. The names could not be given if known to me. In these matters names are always realities, and consequently to give the name would be to reveal the thing itself. Besides, if the names were given, the ordinary person hearing them would not understand them. Just as if I should say that the name of the first is X, which expresses nothing at all to the mind of the hearing person. All that can be said is that there exist those seven rays, districts, or divisions, just as we say that in a town there are legislators, merchants, teachers, and servants. The difference is that in this case we know all about the town, and know just what those names mean. The name only directs the mind to the idea or essential quality. Again I must go. But Brothers are never parted while they live for the True alone. -- Z. --------------------------------------------- COMMENTS BY JASPER NIEMAND. The foregoing letters point clearly to one conclusion concerning that great Theosophist, Madame Blavatsky, though she is unnamed and perhaps unthought of there. Since she sacrificed -- not so calling it herself -- all that mankind holds dear to bring the "glad tidings" of Theosophy to the West, that West, and especially the Theosophical Society, thereby stands to her as a chela to his Guru, in so far as it accepts Theosophy. Her relation to these Theosophists has its being in the highest Law, and cannot be expunged or ignored. So those who regard her personality, and, finding it discordant from theirs, try to reach The Masters by other means while disregarding or underrating scornfully her high services, violate a rule which, because it is not made of man, cannot be broken with impunity. Gratitude and the common sentiment of man for man should have taught them this, without occult teaching at all. Such persons have not reached that stage of evolution where they can learn the higher truths. She who accepts the pains of the rack in the torments of a body sapped of its life force by superb torrents of energy lavished on her high Cause; she who has braved the laughter and anger of two continents, and all the hosts of darkness seen and unseen; she who now lives on, only that she may take to herself the Karma of the Society and so ensure its well being, has no need of any man's praise; but even she has need of justice, because, without that impulse in our hearts and souls toward her, she knows that we must fail for this incarnation. As the babe to the mother, as harvest to the earth, so are all those bound to her who enjoy the fruit of her life. May we try, then, to understand these occult connections brought about by the workings of Karma, and bring them to bear upon our diurnal, as well as our theosophical, life. Madame Blavatsky is for us the next higher link in that great chain, of which no link can be passed over or missed. In further illustration of this letter, I might cite the case of a friend of mine who was at once fired with Theosophy on first hearing of it and ardently desired to become a chela. Certainly he had known these truths in other lives, for all seemed familiar to him, and, though he was what is called "a man of the world," he accepted the philosophy, measured some of its possibilities intuitively, and while careful to do his duty and cause no jars, he ranged his life, especially his inner life, to suit these views. The question of chelaship assumed great prominence in his mind. He knew of no chelas; knew not where to knock or whom to ask. Reflection convinced him that real chelaship consisted in the inner attitude of the postulant; he remembered magnetic and energic laws, and he said to himself that he could at will constitute himself a chela to the Law, at least so far as his own attitude went, and if this did not satisfy him, it was a proof that he desired some personal reward, satisfaction, or powers in the matter, and that his motive was not pure. He was slow to formulate his desires, even to his own mind, for he would not lightly make demands upon the Law; but he at last determined to put his own motives to the test; to try himself and see if he could stand in the attitude of a faithful chela, unrecognized and apparently unheard. He then recorded in his own mind an obligation to serve Truth and the Law as a chela should, always seeking for light and for further aid if possible, recognizing meanwhile that the obligation was on his side only, and that he had no claims on Masters, and only such as he himself could by the strength of his own purpose institute upon the Law. Wherever he could hear of chelas and their duties he listened or read; he tried to imagine himself in the position of an accepted chela, and to fill, so far as in him lay, the duties of that place, living up to all the light he had. For he held that a disciple should always think and act towards the highest possibilities, whether or not he had yet attained these, and not merely confine himself to that course of action which might be considered suited to his lower class or spiritual estate. He believed that the heart is the creator of all real ties, and it alone. To raise himself by himself was then his task. This attitude he resolved to maintain life after life, if needs were, until at last his birthright should be assured, his claim recognized by the Law. He met with trials, with coldness from those who felt rather than saw his changed attitude; he met with all the nameless shocks that others meet when they turn against the whirlpool of existence and try to find their way back into the true currents of life. Great sorrows and loneliness were not slow to challenge his indomitable will. But he found work to do; and in this he was most fortunate, for to work for others is the disciple's joy, his share in the Divine life, his first accolade by which he may know that his service is accepted. This man had called upon the Law in faith supreme, and he was answered. Karma sent him a friend, and soon he began to get new knowledge, and after a time information reached him of a place or person where he might apply to become a chela on probation. It was not given him as information usually is; nothing of the sort was told him; but with his extending knowledge and opening faculties a conviction dawned upon him that he might pursue such and such a course. He did so, and his prayer was heard. He said to me afterwards that he never knew whether he would not have shown greater strength of mind by relying wholly upon the reality of his unseen, unacknowledged claim, until the moment should come when Masters should accept and call him. For of course he held the ideal of Masters clearly before his mind all this while. Perhaps his application showed him to be weaker than he supposed, in so far as it might evidence a need on his part for tangible proof of a fact in which his higher nature prompted him to believe without such proof. Perhaps it was but natural and right, on the other hand, that after silent service for some time he should put himself on record at the first opportunity granted him by Karma. He applied, then. I am permitted to give a portion of the answer he received, and which made clear to him the fact that he was already accepted in some measure before his application, as his intuition had told him. The answer may be of untold value to others, both as clearly setting forth the dangers of forcing one's way ahead of one's race, and also by its advice, admonitions, and evidence that the Great Beings of the Orient deal most frankly and gently with applicants. Also it may mark out a course for those who take the wise plan of testing themselves in silence before pushing their demands upon the Law. For this at once heightens their magnetic vibrations, their evolutionary ratio; their flame burns more brilliantly and attracts all kinds of shapes and influences within its radius, so that the fire is hot about him. And not for him alone: other lives coming in contact with his feel this fierce energy; they develop more rapidly, and, if they have a false or weak place in their nature, it is soon discovered and overthrows them for a time. This is the danger of coming into "the circle of ascetics"; a man must be strong indeed who thus thrusts himself in; it is better as a rule to place oneself in the attitude of a disciple and impose the tests oneself: less opposition is provoked. For forces that are foiled by the Adept may hurl themselves on the neophyte who cannot be protected unless his Karma permits it, and there are always those opposing forces of darkness waiting to thin the ranks of the servitors of the Good Law. Up to this point, then, we may follow this student, and then we lose sight of him; not knowing whether he progressed or failed, or still serves and waits, because such things are not made known. To tell so much as this is rare, and, since it is permitted, it must be because there are many earnest students in this country who need some such support and information. To these I can say that, if they constitute themselves faithful, unselfish disciples, they are such in the knowledge of the Great Law, so long as they are true, in inmost thought and smallest deed, to the pledges of their heart. ANSWER TO Y. Says Master: "Is Y. fully prepared for the uphill work? The way to the goal he strives to reach is full of thorns and leads through miry quagmires. Many are the sufferings the chela has to encounter; still more numerous the dangers to face and conquer. "May he think over it and choose only after due reflection. No Master appealed to by a sincere soul who thirsts for light and knowledge, has ever turned his face away from the supplicant. But it is the duty of those who call for laborers and need them for their fields, to point out to those who offer themselves in truth and trust for the arduous work, the pitfalls in the soil as the hardship of the task. "If undaunted by this warning Y. persists in his determination, he may regard himself as accepted as ------. Let him place himself in such case under the guidance of an older chela. By helping him sincerely and devotedly to carry on his heavy burden, he shall prepare the way for being helped in his turn." (Here follow private instructions.) "Verily if the candidate relies upon the Law, if he has patience, trust, and intuition, he will not have to wait too long. Through the great shadow of bitterness and sorrow that the opposing powers delight in throwing over the pilgrim on his way to the Gates of Light, the candidate perceives that shining Light very soon in his own soul, and he has but to follow it. Let him beware, however, lest he mistake the occasional will-o'-the-wisp of the psychic senses for the reflex of the great spiritual Light; that Light which dieth not, yet never lives, nor can it shine elsewhere than on the pure mirror of Spirit. . . . "But Y. has to use his own intuitions. One has to dissipate and conquer the inner darkness before attempting to see into the darkness without; to know one's self before knowing things extraneous to one's senses." And now, may the Powers to which my friend Y. has appealed be permitted by still greater and much higher Powers to help him. This is the sincere and earnest wish of his truly and fraternally, [Triangle diagram] ----------------------------------------------------- COMMENTS BY JASPER NEIMAND This letter also shows incidentally how one Adept may serve another still higher by reporting or conveying his reply. TO ASPIRANTS FOR CHELASHIP Sincere interest in Theosophic truth is often followed by sincere aspiration after Theosophic life, and the question continually recurs, What are the conditions and the steps to chelaship; to whom should application be made; how is the aspirant to know that it has been granted? As to the conditions and the discipline of chelaship, not a little has been disclosed in THE THEOSOPHIST, MAN, ESOTERIC BUDDHISM, and other works upon Theosophy; and some of the qualifications, difficulties, and dangers have been very explicitly set forth by Madame Blavatsky in her article upon "THEOSOPHICAL MAHATMAS" in the PATH [Magazine] of December, 1886. To everyone cherishing even a vague desire for closer relations to the system of development through which Masters are produced, the thoughtful study of this article is earnestly commended. It will clear the ground of several misconceptions, deepen the sense of the seriousness of such an effort, and excite a healthy self-distrust which is better before than after the gate has been passed. It is entirely possible, however, that the searching of desire and strength incited by that article may only convince more strongly of sincerity, and that not a few readers may emerge from it with a richer purpose and a deeper resolve. Even where there is not a distinct intention to reach chelaship, there may be an eager yearning for greater nearness to the Masters, for some definite assurance of guidance and of help. In either of these cases the question at once arises before the aspirant: Who is to receive the application, and how is its acceptance to be signified? The very natural, indeed the instinctive, step of such an aspirant is to write to an officer of the Theosophical Society. None the less is this a mistake. For the Theosophical Society is an exoteric body, the Lodge of Masters wholly esoteric. The former is a voluntary group of inquirers and philanthropists, with avowed aims, a printed Constitution, and published officers, and, moreover, expressly disavowing any power, as a Society, to communicate with Masters. The latter is an Occult Lodge, of whose address, members, processes, functions, nothing is known. It follows, therefore, that there is no person, no place, no address, to which an aspirant may appeal. Let it be supposed, however, that such an inquiry is preferred to a person advanced in Occult study, versed in its methods and tests and qualifications. Assuredly his reply would be directly to this effect: -- "If you were now fitted to be an accepted chela, you would of yourself know how, where, and to whom to apply. For the becoming a chela in reality consists in the evolution or development of certain spiritual principles latent in every man, and in great measure unknown to your present consciousness. Until these principles are to some degree consciously evolved by you, you are not in practical possession of the means of acquiring the first rudiments of that knowledge which now seems to you so desirable. Whether it is desired by your mind or by your heart is still another important question, not to be solved by any one who has not yet the clue to Self. "It is true that these qualities can be developed (or forced) by the aid of an Adept. And most applicants for chelaship are actuated by a desire to receive instructions directly from the Masters. They do not ask themselves what they have done to merit a privilege so rare. Nor do they consider that, all Adepts being servants of the Law of Karma, it must follow that, did the applicant now merit their visible aid, he would already possess it, and could not be in search of it. The indications of the fulfillment of the Law are, in fact, the partial unfolding of those faculties above referred to. "You must, then, reach a point other than that where you now stand, before you can even ask to be taken as a chela on probation. All candidates enter the unseen Lodge in this manner, and it is governed by Laws containing within themselves their own fulfillment and not requiring any officers whatever. Nor must you imagine that such a probationer is one who works under constant and known direction of either an Adept or another chela. On the contrary, he is tried and tested for at least seven years, and perhaps many more, before the point is reached when he is either accepted (and prepared for the first of a series of initiations often covering several incarnations), or rejected. And this rejection is not by any body of men just as they incline, but is the natural rejection by Nature. The probationer may or may not hear from his Teacher during this preliminary period; more often he does not hear. He may be finally rejected and not know it, just as some men have been on probation and have not known it until they suddenly found themselves accepted. Such men are those self-developed persons who have reached that point in the natural order after many incarnations, where their expanded faculties have entitled them to an entrance into the Hall of Learning or the spiritual Lodge beyond. And all I say of men applies equally to women. "When anyone is regularly accepted as a chela on probation, the first and only order he receives (for the present) is to work unselfishly for humanity -- sometimes aiding and aided by some older chela -- while striving to get rid of the strength of the personal idea. The ways of doing this are left to his own intuition entirely, inasmuch as the object is to develop that intuition and to bring him to self-knowledge. It is his having these powers in some degree that leads to his acceptance as a probationer, so that it is more than probable that you have them not yet save as latent possibilities. In order to have in his turn any title to help, he must work for others, but that must not be his motive for working. He who does not feel irresistibly impelled to serve the Race, whether he himself fails or not, is bound fast by his own personality and cannot progress until he has learned that the race is himself and not that body which he now occupies. The ground of this necessity for a pure motive was recently stated in LUCIFER [Magazine] to be that "unless the intention is entirely unalloyed, the spiritual will transform itself into the psychic, act on the astral plane, and dire results may be produced by it. The powers and forces of animal nature can be equally used by the selfish and revengeful as by the unselfish and all-forgiving; the powers and forces of spirit lend themselves only to the perfectly pure in heart. "It may be stated, however, that even those natural forces cannot be discovered by any man who has not obtained the power of getting rid of his personality in some degree. That an emotional desire to help others does not imply this freedom from personality may be seen by the fact that, if you were now perfected in unselfishness in the real sense, you would have a conscious existence separate from that of the body and would be able to quit the body at will: in other words, to be free from all sense of self is to be an Adept, for the limitations of self inhibit progress. "Hear also the words of the Master, taken from Sinnett's THE OCCULT WORLD. 'Perhaps you will better appreciate our meaning when told that in our view the highest aspirations for the welfare of humanity become tainted with selfishness if, in the mind of the philanthropist, there lurks the shadow of a desire for self-benefit or a tendency to do injustice, even when these exist unconsciously to himself.' "While setting forth these facts, as well as the dangers and difficulties -- both those set ones appointed by the laws of the Lodge, and the more innumerable ones adjudged by Karma and hastened by the efforts of the neophyte, it should also be stated that the Masters desire to deter no man from entering the path. They are well aware, however, from the repeated trials and records of centuries, and from their knowledge of our racial difficulties, how few are the persons who have any clue to their own real nature, which is the foe they attempt to conquer the moment they become pupils of the occult. Hence They endeavor, so far as Karma permits, to hold unfit individuals back from rash ventures, the results of which would recoil upon their unbalanced lives and drive them to despair. The powers of evil, inadequately defied by the ignorant man, revenge themselves upon him as well as upon his friends, and not upon those who are above their reach. Although these powers are not hideous objective shapes coming in tangible ways, they are none the less real and dangerous. Their descent in such instances cannot be prevented; it is Karma. "To lose all sense of self, then, implies the loss of all that ordinary men most value in themselves. It therefore behooves you to seriously consider these points: "1st. What is your motive in desiring to be a chela? You think that motive is well known to you, whereas it is hidden deep within you, and by that hidden motive you will be judged. It has flared up from unseen regions upon men sure of themselves, has belched out in some lurid thought or deed of which they esteemed themselves incapable, and has overthrown their life or reason. Therefore test yourself ere Karma tests you. "2d. What the place and duties of a true neophyte are. "When you have seriously considered both for twenty-one days, you may, if your desire remains firm, take a certain course open to you. It is this. "Although you do not now know where you can offer yourself to Masters themselves as a chela on probation, yet, in forming that desire in your heart and in re-affirming it (if you do) after due consideration of these points, you have then to some extent called upon the Law, and it is within your power to constitute yourself a disciple, so far as in you lies, through the purity of your motive and effort if both are sufficiently sustained. No one can fix a period when this effort will bear fruit, and, if your patience and faith are not strong enough to bear you through an unlimited (so far as you know) period of unselfish work for humanity, you had better resign your present fancy, for it is then no more than that. But if otherwise, you are to work for the spiritual enlightenment of Humanity in and through the Theosophical Society (which much needs such laborers), and in all other modes and planes as you best can, remembering the word of Masters: 'He who does what he can and all that he can, and all that he knows how to do, does enough for us.' This task includes that of divesting yourself of all personality through interior effort, because that work, if done in the right spirit, is even more important to the race than any outward work we can do. Living as you now are, on the outward plane chiefly, your work is due there and is to be done there until your growth shall fit you to pass away from it altogether "In following this course you work towards a fixed point under observation -- as is, indeed, the whole Theosophic body, which is now, as a body, a chela of Masters, but specialized from other members in the sense that your definite aim and trust are understood and taken into consideration by the unseen Founders and the Law. The Theosophical Society then stands to you, for the time being, as any older chela might who was appointed for you to aid and to work under. You are not, understand, a chela on probation, since no one without authority can confer or announce such a privilege. But if you succeed in lifting yourself and others spiritually, it will be known, no matter what the external silence may seem to be, and you will receive your full dues from Those who are honest debtors and ministers of the Just and Perfect Law. You must be ready to work, to wait, and to aspire in silence, just as all do who have fixed their eyes on this goal. Remember that your truest adviser is to be found, and constantly sought, within yourself. Only by experience can you learn to know its voice from that of natural instinct or mere logic, and strengthen this power, by virtue of which the Masters have become what They are. "Your choice or rejection of this course is the first test of yourself. Others will follow, whether you are aware of them or not, for the first and only right of the neophyte is -- to be tried. Hence silence and sorrow follow his acceptance instead of the offer of prompt aid for which he looks. Yet even that shall not be wanting; those trials and reverses will come only from the Law to which you have appealed." -- J. N. ======================================= From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 06:45:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 11 Sep 2001 13:45:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 43519 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ostrich.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.14) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2001 13:32:18 -0000 Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pop01.sprintmail.com [207.217.120.171]) by ostrich.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15647 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earthlink (pool0005.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.5]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA00040; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-basic] RE: Moderators consider: 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 3 Evolutionary schemes, 3 GOALS of Evolution Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:29:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net 09/10/2001 Dear Friend Martin: Your views are analogous to those stated in The SECRET DOCTRINE ( Vol. I p= p 14-19 ) . which is well worth a reading. The 3 "Gunas" or "Qualities" which Krishna says constitute all things, are = also as you describe them. The attributes I used are analogous to the ones= you use. We are looking for agreement in ideas and not a coincidence of words. 1. SATTVA : Spirit, Truth, purity, balance, wisdom, Karma, as generator = and planner of EVOLUTION, stability, virtue, eternity and immortality both= known and acquired, The SOURCE of all progress of a noble and altruistic t= ype, contentment, does not demand or require any special attention, free f= rom the influence of the pairs of opposites, free of any self-interest, act= s are sacrificial ( sacred actions), self-restraint, devotion, attention, d= esire to learn so as to benefit others, search for Spiritual Knowledge, dis= crimination constantly and unwaveringly applied, engaged in the "right prac= tice of duties," temperate, restraining Thought, acquainted with the TRUE S= ELF, desire regulated by moral fitness, it is the "heart" where in the Mind= is to be imprisoned, "the Ego seated in the "heart" of all beings, the nev= er-failing Guardian of Eternal law, the ONE SOURCE of all things. UNITY, h= as no fear of any circumstance, seeks to understand CAUSES, the KNOWER, PER= CEIVER, WITNESS, Maheshwara (the Great Lord), Spectator, Admonisher, sustai= ner of Life, Paramatma (the Highest Soul), detached from the passions (Raja= s) and from inert forms ( Tamas),=20 2. RAJAS Activity, Thought, planning, feeling, desire, passion, motion, (e= xpansion and contraction), the power of self-ideation, the Eternal Thought = in the ETERNAL MIND, a "feeling of incompleteness," involved in the pairs o= f opposites, concerned with pleasure, ease, attachment to "objects of sense= ," relates all situation to "feeling" and fails to be impartial and imperso= nal, adopt rites and rituals without thinking them through as to legitimacy= , deluded by the "pairs of opposites" which springs from "liking and dislik= ing," has the power to be free and to control all lower influences and to s= ubdue the feelings, passions and vices, has enmity towards none, love of ga= in, restlessness, and inordinate, exaggerated desires,=20 3. TAMAS Inertia, indifference, idleness, senselessness, sleep, folly, the= final contraction of mater into a condition that forces it out of manifest= ation and back into non-manifestation, vice and injustice, wickedness and e= vil, a distortion or a breaking of Universal law for selfish gain, the "po= wer of the Material Essence," Centers of Force -- the "building-blocks of N= ature, demoniac, deceitful, envious, proud of little learning, holds feuds = and enmities towards others, fears death, pain and suffering, ignorance and= a refusal to learn truths,=20 There are probably far more descriptive ideas and phrases that can be attri= buted to each of these 3 Qualities in Man and Nature. To know them and the= ir causes gives us freedom from them. It is said that when under KARMA the time comes for the UNIVERSE (KOSMOS) t= o awaken to a renewed period of learning and activity, the SUPREME UNITY, s= plits into TWO and on the plane of the MANIFESTED duality supervenes in the= contrast of SPIRIT and PRIMORDIAL MATTER. These combined from small to great constitute the MONAD and the monads. Actually the Monad is not only "dual" but it is triple as the PERCEIVER is = the UNIVERSAL MIND, a fragment of which forms the medial line exactly neutr= al between the SPIRIT and the BUDDHI (or Primordial SPIRITUAL MATTER.=20=20 If looking inward with our Minds, we will soon find this to be true of our = own constitution. Active and forceful impartial and impersonal MEDITATION = does this. Blanking the mind is a delusion and should be avoided. But, ma= king the Mind indifferent to our physical surrounding and the impulses from= our passions and desires is another practice (a preliminary to meditation)= that is to be first observed if sincerity, honesty and truth are to be se= cure by US. Moksha, Liberation and Nirvana are conditions of activity and not of passiv= ity nor do those concepts reflect a well-earned rest. What is our capacity= for boredom -- doing NOTHING You may not agree with this as a concept, but then lets query together furt= her. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: D----l H----s=20 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:45 AM To:=20 Subject:: Moderators consider: 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 3 Evolutionary schemes, 3 GO= ALS of Evolution ---------------------------------------- Hello I'm not a theosophist, but an interested party. I am actually a longstanding witch & like to have a nose about in other peoples beliefs! I was reading the bit on the 3 fundamentals, and thought I'd offer my views o= n it. I believe motion is an absolute, but my understanding of Sattva, Rajas & Tamas are different. Sattva is equilibrium & balance, Rajas is expansion & Tamas contraction & inertia. This article proposes that doing nothing is & stopping is negative, I propose that nature shows the opposite is true. Everything has its place, stillness & contraction included. Nothing can grow forever, that would be cancerous, growth must stop & reverse to releas= e the energy needed for more growth & to allow space for it. We need only look at the cycles of nature, growth of the Spring & Summer harvested & the= n the dying back of Winter to nothingness, from which growth can once again occur. Furthermore, apply this to everyday issues, we must spring clean ou= r minds & houses to allow space for the new etc etc. It is further assumed Nirvana is boring, and I'm never one to judge a place until I've experienced it, but Nirvana is the supposed liberation of boundaries, release into sunyata where we are unbounded, as is Moksha. Liberation of boundaries supposedly leads to calmness & a sinless state of mind, not nothingness. I don't personally view the afterlife in this fashion, but I just thought I'd throw my ideas in. Anyway, must go, Martin From nos@granite.net.au Tue Sep 11 18:05:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 01:05:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 90359 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 01:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 01:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 01:05:56 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-08.granite.net.au [203.38.211.71]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01654 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:36:50 +0930 To: Subject: US Karma Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:39:48 +0930 Message-ID: <001101c13b27$9e7c63c0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "nos" Is everybody from NYC on the list alive and well? Peace all Nos From officerjenny@mindspring.com Tue Sep 11 19:10:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: officerjenny@mindspring.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 02:10:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 57681 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 02:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 02:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hall.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.60) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 02:10:23 -0000 Received: from mindspring.com (pool-63.53.95.104.mhub.grid.net [63.53.95.104]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25571 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B9EC417.CD84B869@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:10:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma References: <001101c13b27$9e7c63c0$4101a8c0@nos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michele Lidofsky nos wrote: > Is everybody from NYC on the list alive and well? Our parents, children and new eleven day old grandchild all live and/or work in the city and our immediate families are all okay. I am sadly certain, though, that none of us in the NYC and DC areas will be untouched by this. We will all be amongst those bereaved, by just a few degrees of separation. We do not yet know exactly how many have been lost, or who has been lost, in our extended families and groups of friends. We will shortly learn first hand, and in horror, how closely we are all connected. The expression of fear and pain in the tri-state area was immediate and enormous. Now the anger is beginning to make itself known. The world will never be the same. Prayers, meditations, and benedictions for the suffering. May all those who make decisions for this country and for the planet have calm minds, and be guided and enlightened by the Divine. ~may all beings have peace~ Michele and Bart From etvionbb@netvision.net.il Tue Sep 11 23:20:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: etvionbb@netvision.net.il X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 06:20:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 96701 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 06:20:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 06:20:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgw1.netvision.net.il) (194.90.1.14) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 06:20:38 -0000 Received: from LocalHost (ras1-p175.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.144.175]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12881; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:20:25 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <003301c13b5b$6f08e080$af90003e@LocalHost> To: "Baba-Table" Cc: Subject: Holy wars Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:19:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Etzion Becker" (I wrote this a few of months ago) The recent cyber war we had on our list, reminded me of a good such like story I got myself involved in. This was 1975, and to understand the background, it was some time after the 1973 war, which started on October, and lasted actually till May or June 1974, when a cease fire was declared with Syria, too. I served in the army most of the time, and Baba took well advantage of the circumstance, to instill in my mind the origin of war and its cure. We know quite well that selfishness is its cause, but it goes even deeper. I was shown that this is almost the only way for the average people, loosing their lives for the welfare of others. While during their daily routine, humans think only how to take advantage of the other; this state they call *peace*, but this is another story. In short, it was quite obvious for me that the failures of spiritual people is the key cause for all this misery. At least this what I was shown over many years of participating in non stop wars. You cannot actually blame the ignorant masses, they don't have any spiritual leadership for guidance. After I was released, I was actually dazed for six months, but after the shock of that experience was subsiding, I launched myself to what I called *my spiritual mission*. I was hot tempered, impatient and had no tolerance for so called spiritual failures, well I was also a bit younger, and time is a key factor for wisdom.... So I abandoned my work, or worked only part time, and dedicated myself to all kinds of volunteer work, first I would help those who were wounded in the war, which was a hard sight; on of the survivors had half head. Have you seen a man walking with half head? later on I was sent in that rehabilitation hospital to aid those on the recovery process, mainly victims of car accidents and strokes, but later on I discovered that the spiritual organization I was involved before coming to Baba, i.e. the Anthroposophical society, have had institutions for helping retarded children, so of course, I preferred to volunteer there. I spent some time with one institution in Beer Sheva, south of the country, and quite quickly I went on odds with the woman in charge. She was a volunteer or was a paid worker from Switzerland, as were most of the volunteers there, since the headquarters of the Anthroposophical movement has been in Dornach, Switzerland. I don't recall really the details of my complaints, and it doesn't matter whether it had substantial grounds or not, what mattered was that I saw that if you are a spiritual person, and you don't put your life and soul into your work, and if not everything is *perfect*, you will be responsible for the next war, not less. This was my state of mind then. In a way it is true, but not the whole truth. When I left the institute, I started a whole crusade around that issue, getting on odds with all my associates, was blamed for being unloving and judgmental. But I was quite tenacious, and the understanding of my mental state after the war can explain that spiritual intolerance, I could see that your failures create suffering, and *half head* was before my eyes constantly. This *war* was going on for a few months. I was discussing it with others, sending letters etc. I got only more and more furious about the whole thing, which, to be honest, I don't remember for sure today what was it all about.... Anyway, after some time I was working at my parents property. We had a chicken house, and I was reparing the roof, standing on the top of a tall ladder, and the whole thing came back. I said to the Lord: "I'll never forgive them for this"; as soon as the thought crossed my mind, the ladder simply vanished under my feet, in an instant I managed to grab hold of one of the beams, and landed safely on the ground. That was the changing point. I realized that the Lord was displeased about the whole thing all along, but He had no access to convey His wish. I was developing large wounds from every little scratch, which usually heals within a few days, but the wounds didn't heal at all. I started to send letters of apology to the people concerned, which helped a bit. At that time I was in close touch with the head of the Anthroposophical group in Tel Aviv, a person whom I admired a lot; I just found, while leafing through my papers, a letter which he sent me during May, 1975. He wrote: "... I see that you overcoming all this issue on the hard, but the correct way. It is important, as I can see from your words, that there is a difference between the people and the anthroposophy.... etc". I was assimilating this for many years, being extra cautios not to tread again on toes, which is extremely difficult, but I think (and hope) that I have learnt, on the hard way, as usuall. Love, Etzion From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Sep 11 23:47:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 06:47:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 40564 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 06:47:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 06:47:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r03.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.99) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 06:47:17 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.6b.1a87fa0e (4332) for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:47:03 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 From: leonmaurer@aol.com In a message dated 09/11/01 9:07:05 PM, nos@granite.net.au writes: >Is everybody from NYC on the list alive and well? > >Peace all > >Nos As for myself, I'll just snd you all a copy of the letter I sent to my personal list tonight. After the horrendous experience the NYC went through today, I thought I'd let you all (my family, friends, and joke list) know that I'm okay, and that uptown NY (above Canal street) is as peaceful and as calm as it ever can be... Since, the weather is perfect, the traffic is nil, all the bridge and tunnels are closed, the streets are empty, the city is almost completely isolated, Central Park is no different that it's ever been (although many more people are there than on a normal weekday, as it's a good place to escape from the city's problems and to rap about the scene). Although most retail stores and theaters are closed, food is plentiful. Luckily for us uptowners, the wind has been southeast all day and the only areas that are smoked out are the wall Street Area of lower Manhattan, mid Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island. Sorry for those rescue workers and other escapees that have to breathe that cancer causing stuff in the air downtown -- since the World Trade Center was built before the anti asbestos laws were passed. All the rest you can see and hear on radio and TV (which is the way all of us living here know about what's happened, and still happening) -- so I wont go into the details of the downtown crisis or the political response. All, I can say is, things are going to be much different in this country after the rubble is cleared, and I feel the tension, fear and anger already building up... As it did after (I also slept through) Pearl Harbor and found us in the midst of war the next day -- which changed my whole life. Who knows what this horror will lead to? Hopefully, not the long anticipated WW 3... But, killing and maiming many thousands of innocent sitting duck civilians to make a political point by unknown religious fanatic terrorists, is far worse than a sneak attack by a known military force against a few thousand military personnel and other strategic targets. I can already smell the anger and resentment in the air that will justify Washington's heavy handed response against Muslim countries that might lead to a world conflagration -- since their terrorists will think nothing about dropping one of their A-bombs on a major European city, as NATO is the real target, and they've already done the worst they can do to the US. But, it's all up to the ruling powers that be, and we can't do much about it but wait and see. So, no use worrying about it. And, keep on smiling. :-) Len From bartl@sprynet.com Wed Sep 12 05:31:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 12:31:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 63445 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 12:27:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 12:27:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 12:27:44 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (pool-63.53.128.180.mhub.grid.net [63.53.128.180]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25455 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B9F54CC.CF30F446@sprynet.com> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:27:56 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma References: <001101c13b27$9e7c63c0$4101a8c0@nos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Michele, myself, children, grandchild, all present, accounted for (and alive). The one accounted for, our son-in-law, Mikey, is a customs cop assigned to JFK airport, and was called in on emergency duty. While we haven't heard from him, his safety is highly probable. But we are REALLY grateful that we moved across the river last year... nos wrote: > > Is everybody from NYC on the list alive and well? From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Sep 12 06:36:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 13:36:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 52911 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0256.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.189.1]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with SMTP id f8CDSht14341; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:28:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-basic] RE: Moderators consider: 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 3 Evolutionary schemes, 3 GOALS of Evolution Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:22:11 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wednesday, September 12, 2001 =20 Dear Daniel H.: =20 I will try to offer for your consideration some of the concepts that I beli= eve Theosophy has offered us all. Of course, you must understand that there= are many expressions of it, and this is purely my own way of understanding= it. =20 As I see it:=C2=A0 Theosophy is not a creed or set of beliefs (or hypothese= s) in which its statements are to =E2=80=9Cbelieved=E2=80=9D on =E2=80=9Cfa= ith=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 i.e.=C2=A0 unproven. =20 It claims to be a statement of facts in nature -- and leaves those which we= are not aware of to be proved or disproved by us.=C2=A0 It always gives ea= ch of us entire freedom to inquire into everything.=C2=A0 Nothing is =E2=80= =9Ctaboo.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0=20 The method of its formulation has been in existence in some form or another= (since the very beginning of man=E2=80=99s capacity to think independently= -- and that is millions of years ago) to make statements of the rules and = laws that underlie Nature=E2=80=99 processes.=C2=A0 It recognizes that not = all those laws have been taught in either religious bodies or in educationa= l institutions that follow the discoveries and hypotheses of Science.=C2=A0= But since it is very ancient it claims to be the source and origin of all = the present world religions and sciences --- and says that if we trace each= of those back to their foundations, we will find them to be the same teach= ings as are pour forward in modern =E2=80=9CTheosophy.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0=C2= =A0[=C2=A0 Theos =3D godlike; Sophia =3D wisdom ] =20 In other words it looks for verifiable Truth. and expects all who encounter= it to examine, test and verify (or the reverse) its doctrines. =20 It claims to be very ancient--as an expressions of the discoveries of a ban= d of Sages and their disciples-- (see SECRET DOCTRINE =C2=A0I=C2=A0 272-3, = on its antiquity and methods of investigation and recording).=C2=A0 It give= s to, as a basis, and recognizes the freedom of the individual.=C2=A0=20 =20 It claims to be wise because it has subjected itself constantly to rigorous= examination -- and this process continues wit all of us today, as every pu= pil is expected to test and prove to themselves the accuracy of the Theosop= hical statements. =20 In what way, then does it differ from Science or Religion. =20 1. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It has no dogmas,=20 =20 2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It discourages any =E2= =80=9Cauthority,=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cblind belief=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cfaith.= =E2=80=9D =20 3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It recognizes the freedo= m of each individual Mind/Soul to independently investigate all aspects of = knowledge, and especially those which seem to be novel or difficult to unde= rstand. =20 4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The first Proposition it= advances is to consider SPACE as UNIVERSAL and unlimited. All forms, all Beings, all Intelligences occupy and have a place for their = existence in the ONE UNIVERSAL -- SPACE. =20 5.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Second Proposition i= s that the Universe and all beings of any and all degrees, visible or invis= ible, interact according to LAWS; and these LAWS cannot be altered or chang= ed by any Being or Intelligence (including a non-existent =E2=80=9CPersonal= God=E2=80=9D), no matter how powerful or =E2=80=9Cadvanced.=E2=80=9D =20 6.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Third Proposition is= that every Being in the Universe shares in the Highest and most Wise aspec= t of knowledge -- as this is one of the all-pervasive and unlimited aspects= of SPACE. The name given to this Highest aspect of Manifestation is SPIRIT, ATMA, and= various other names meaning the ONE ALL AND ONLY ONE.=C2=A0 In no religion= has it ever been given a =E2=80=9CNAME.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 This is another rea= son for Universal Brotherhood. =20 7.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Whether we consider an = =E2=80=9Catom=E2=80=9D (or the minutest sub-atomic particle), or the entire= SPATIAL VOLUME -- the greatest that our minds can conceive -- all is ALIVE= , has the power to record experiences, and has an individual undying CONSCI= OUSNESS, and an Intelligence of its own.=C2=A0 To be brief.=C2=A0 Every FOR= M has at its core an immortal and undying SPIRITUAL CENTER.=C2=A0 All these= are united indissolubly by the ONE SPIRIT OF THE ILLIMITABLE UNIVERSE. =20 8.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Evolution of Intelligenc= e is a constant and ever continuous process.=C2=A0 It is to us the CAUSELES= S CAUSE that propels every being into Life and to work for its own enlightm= ent.=C2=A0 It is a profound response to the sense of incompleteness -- whic= h can only be expressed as infinite, tender, and all supporting LOVE.=C2=A0= The Love of Truth, and the compassion for all our human brothers and siste= rs everywhere. =20 8.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Theosophy claims that Wi= sdom (SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE ) is internal to every Being / Form, and that, as= time and experience focuses a greater and increasing degree of knowledge i= n the learning unit ( a =E2=80=9CMonad=E2=80=9D consisting of SPIRIT=C2=A0 = +=C2=A0 MIND=C2=A0 +=C2=A0 PRIMORDIAL MATTER, or ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS ) the in= dividual intelligence passes from the lower stages (elemental, mineral, veg= etable, animal) to the HUMAN stage where it becomes (by self-effort) a THIN= KER. =20 9.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Each Being is an eternal= , and undying =C2=A0=E2=80=9CMonad.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 It has a growing Intelli= gence.=C2=A0 It stores for all eternity a memory of the experiences it unde= rgoes.=C2=A0 It shares this with all other Monads, so there are no secrets.= =C2=A0 It is attracted primarily to =E2=80=9CMonads of Greater Experience= =E2=80=9D (Humans) so that it may itself become wiser. =20 10.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Every Human is a THINKER -- a MIND = in evolution.=C2=A0 It is a Mind/Soul or a Monad that has reached a stage w= here it is =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D to conduct its own education.=C2=A0 This = freedom brings on responsibility.=C2=A0 That is epitomized in the concept o= f living, being and acting as a member of the UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD OF HUMA= NITY and of ALL BEINGS.=C2=A0 This is in effect, another name for the UNIVE= RSE. =20 11.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As a single life-time is inadequate= for a human to learn everything that the UNIVERSE has to offer, it takes m= any incarnations (repeated lives) to acquire a knowledge of, and a proof of= the above mentioned propositions and statements.=C2=A0 Reincarnation is an= actual fact in nature.=C2=A0 All beings, as Intelligent Units, share in th= is ever-progressive faculty. =20 12.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Such Wisdom is already inherent in = it as the SPIRITUAL POLE of the MONAD (Atma).=C2=A0 The Forms it uses as it= progresses are also innate to it in:=C2=A0 PRIMORDIAL MATTER (Buddhi)=C2= =A0 Its CONSCIOUSNESS (Manas) is undying, and continuously attracts and sto= res all aspects of learning that it experiences or determines to grasp. =20 13.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 One could say that the purifying an= d clarifying of the =E2=80=9Cform=E2=80=9D aspect of our Monadic nature ena= bles us to eventually perceive the inherent TRUTH (a perception of Universa= l law) that it has always enshrined. =C2=A0In effect our limitations and ou= r ignorance is the result of neglecting to perceive and act on the TRUTHS (= Intuitions ) we already possess. =20 14.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Since the UNIVERSE runs according t= o LAW=C2=A0 ( Karma or ACTION and REACTION ) every free choice we make, lea= ves an impression on the living and sensitive material used by every intell= igence to build its own =E2=80=9CForm.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0=20 =20 15.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 These Karmic impressions made by ou= r independent choices on our =E2=80=9Clower principles=E2=80=9D (our forms)= or, the =C2=A0=E2=80=9CMonads of lesser experience,=E2=80=9D form the basi= s for our Karma (which may be =E2=80=9Cgood,=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbad=E2=80= =9D). The direction and motive of our choices makes for the quality of our = lives now and in the future as their results mature. =20 16.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Humanity in general is at the begin= ning of its self-educative stage of the development of Human Intelligence.= =C2=A0 We are seeing to learn more of the supportive and all-prevalent LAWS= of NATURE.=C2=A0 At the same time we seek to purify our material =E2=80=9C= sheaths,=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cvehicles,=E2=80=9D of the ignorance that has = made them obstructive and blurred transmitters of TRUTH. =20 17.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Our attitude when we realize we are= self-obstructed ought to be to seek for the CAUSE of this impediment.=C2= =A0 We find that it resides in our desire, passions, in selfishness and a d= esire to enjoy ease without obstructions or the onus of duties.=C2=A0 We wi= ll find that this psychological entity is closely allied to our Mind, becau= se without us in =C2=A0the mind faculties it cannot secure for itself the s= elfish ease and isolation it values.=C2=A0 In general this =E2=80=9CPrincip= le=E2=80=9D is named KAMA and it represents the highest set of qualities th= at animal evolution provides.=C2=A0 It is the realm of virtue and vice. =20 18.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Virtues may be briefly described as= all actions that are in accord with UNIVERSAL LAW.=C2=A0 Vices are all act= ions that are purely selfish, and aimed primarily at satisfying our comfort= , ease, pleasure -- at the expense of others, and of the conjoint duties we= are responsible for. =20 19.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The true spiritual Man learns to id= entify and separate the motives of both VIRTUE=C2=A0 (Buddhi - Wisdom), and= VICE ( Kama - selfish desire ).=C2=A0 This is essentially the present aren= a of human development.=C2=A0 That is why it is presently so difficult for = us to disentangle THOUGHT from DESIRE.=C2=A0 (Nous from Psyche). =20 20.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro summarize.=C2=A0 Theosophy holds= that we are each an IMMORTAL working through the process of self-education= in an eternal School.=C2=A0 Each life in a days is an incarnation. =C2=A0L= ife is the class.=C2=A0 The subject for study is our selves as SPIRITUAL, P= sychic, and as a human form.=C2=A0 Our tool is the MIND.=C2=A0 We the IMMOR= TAL PERCEIVER, observing our condition, decide what we will learn and how f= ast we will learn it. =20 21.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We are all restrained in the future= by our choices, as we will be elevated or obstructed by the quality of gen= erosity or selfishness resident=C2=A0 in the MOTIVE behind our selection of= the pathways of education for ourselves.=C2=A0 Our selection is always fre= e.=C2=A0 Nature returns to us in exact measure the quality of the nature (v= irtuous or vicious) of our thought, feelings and deeds. =20 I know there will be many questions that arise from this summary, which uni= fied all aspects of living, as our schools and religious instruction rarely= seems to entirely cover this vast area of development that each of us is f= aced with. =20 Best wishes =20 Dallas=20 =20 --------------------------------------- =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: D---el H---es=20 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:54 AM To:=20 Subject:: 3 FUNDAMENTALS, 3 Evolutionary schemes, 3 GOALS of Evolution =20 =20 Hello again, =20 I was further reading this article & found another couple of points, those = on wisdom. You state that all religions have identical teachings, well tha= t is not strictly true. My "religion" in the very loose sense of the word = is not based upon teachings as such, it is based upon the experience of nat= ure. There are other religions that are the antithesis of this, and believ= e that rather than experience the divine through nature, seek to suppress n= ature in order to reach the divine. It is tempting to try & draw parallels= between all religions & belief structures, but in order to do so one would= be forced to ignore, or attempt to explain away, those ideas which do not = fit. You say: =20 God has been transformed from a UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE -- a portion of which r= esides potential in all of us, and in every least thing -- into a PERSON wh= o can be teased, prayed to, praised, and cajoled into apparently breaking H= is own Laws and those of equity and brotherhood in the Universe=20 =20 This is an example of explaining away a difference in approach to deity. Y= ou say that they have moved from one approach to another but this is not st= rictly the case. The idea of the divine being an individual or individuals= that have personalities like humans is quite common in some of the oldest = belief structures, especially in tribal beliefs. What you are saying is th= at you believe the opposite is true, thus anyone who believes differently h= as deviated from the "one truth" that you personally percieve, which is fur= ther indicated by the idea that all religions have... =20 in fact have sprung from the ONE SOURCE: THEOSOPHY. =20 I admit that ultimately we must all be going to one place & experiencing th= e same thing, but different paths suit different individuals, to try to cre= ate the "one path" or "one truth" will not happen as, whilst we are here an= yway, we have individual selves. In fact to deny this would be to work aga= inst nature as it is manifested. =20 I also feel that faith & belief are necessary, and a part of life. They do= not discourage free will, as long we don't have "blind faith". My beliefs= are based on personal experience, not those which I have read in a book, o= r have come from one person, they are thus composed of free will & are open= to change. Although I do agree that people should be able to work free of= priesthood. Just my musings on the subject, religous free will & acceptan= ce of difference being a trait of mine, =20 M---in =20 =20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 CUT =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DNisk98114@aol.com Wed Sep 12 06:53:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 12 Sep 2001 13:53:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 37493 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2001 13:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2001 13:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m10.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.165) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Sep 2001 13:51:34 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.4d.112300f7 (4555) for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d.112300f7.28d0c24f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:51:11 EDT Subject: a realization? To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com I live close to an air force base and it's an odd feeling or rather a cognizance of the fact that : There are no planes flying. One becomes so accustomed to almost a hum of activity in the sky that one takes it for granted that there would be some excess sound in the background of life that is so much a part of this age. The senses are at work all the time. From nos@granite.net.au Wed Sep 12 17:30:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 13 Sep 2001 00:30:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 85036 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2001 00:29:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Sep 2001 00:29:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2001 00:29:22 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-45.granite.net.au [203.38.211.110]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29401 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:54:51 +0930 To: Subject: Aryans in India Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:57:42 +0930 Message-ID: <000201c13bea$e7786e20$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <4d.112300f7.28d0c24f@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "nos" http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/ This was all new to me and I found it very interesting. Nos From eldon@theosophy.com Thu Sep 13 17:12:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 14 Sep 2001 00:12:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 44472 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2001 22:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2001 22:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.57) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2001 22:20:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eldon@theosophy.com Received: from [10.1.10.133] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2001 20:44:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:44:46 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: some artists and Theosophy Message-ID: <9nr5ru+dmr3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 476 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 167.167.110.112 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Two people wrote this week with almost the same question regarding artists and Theosophy. I'm not familiar enough to offer either an answer. Does someone know the answer to these questions? >Which of the following was not a follower of theosophy? > >a) Joseph Beuys >b) Kazimir Malevich >c) Marcel Broodthaers >d) Wassily Kandinsky >e) Piet Mondrian >Do either of the following consider themselves followers of theosophy? >Joseph Beuys >Marcel Broodthaers -- Eldon Tucker From ringding@blinx.de Thu Sep 13 20:14:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 14 Sep 2001 03:14:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2666 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 00:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 00:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 00:32:56 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f8DGKvZ15555 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:20:57 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from ringding (cppp-178.blinx.de [62.96.222.178]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f8DGKt515546 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:20:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c13c70$3f09dfe0$b2de603e@ringding> To: References: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:19:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" There is no religious or policital reason that justifies mass murdering. But violence is not limited to the physical plane alone. There is psychical violence, too, and mental violence, although not so quick to see. It seems that a mumbo is found now, as always. Strange that this Mr Laden was according to newspaper reports a former CIA coworker. It seems that the US military always produces its own enemies, like before with Pearl Harbor, Gaddafi, Milosevic, Saddam Hussein. Or note the recent hoax with NATO's action in the Cosovo named "Essential Harvest" were they gather the old weapons they sold them before and to make place - for new weapons and new profit. The background powers call this "free market", "democracy" and "free trade". But was the people ever asked? The law of the background powers is "eye for an eye, teeth for a teeth", therefore it should be worth to remember what Annie Besant said 1893 in Chicago on the First Parliament of the World Religions, were the TS played a big role: "...For out of spiritual pride and spiritual selfishness grew the degradation of India, until she who once led the world was no longer able to stand the front. But the India of the past - Ah, that was different! When her Gods came down as Avatars, and her Rishis made the grandest literature that has grown up in the past or present, so that our nations have been inspired by it - that literature written in the language of the Gods. They who trained their people and led them step by step along the path of knowledge, when the Brahmins were those whose bodies were fit dwelling for the most highly evolved souls, and even the name of Brahmin meant spiritual teacher, and therefore the rightful guide and instructor of men. That is what a nation may be when a spiritual ideal is supreme, and the working out of this by the nation makes bodies that are able to answer to the most delicate vibrations of the highest of souls. Shall that be the ideal of your American nation, or will you turn aside to your Western thought? Will you have your material wealth, will you take gold instead of wisdom, and mere material triumph instead of the knowledge of the soul? You may do it as you will, for every nation's fate is in its own hands. Yours the choice, and none other can choose for you what the future of the American nation shall be. Shall it be material? Is it the material that you need? Rather lesssen your material energies. Spend less time in the body, more time in the soul. Give less thought to the acquirement of position and of wealth, more thought to the growth of the Spirit and the evolution of the purely human within you, and then even greater than the nations of the past the nations of the future may be, - nobler even than the realities of the past the realities of the future shall become; and if you would have the treasure you must pay the price, and the price is the recognition of the supremacy of the spirit, and the utterly inferior and transitory nature of that body of which we make so much." - Report..., p. 120. From teos9@aol.com Fri Sep 14 03:58:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Teos9@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 10:58:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 4966 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 10:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 10:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 10:23:59 -0000 Received: from Teos9@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id r.2f.1ad587f5 (3972) for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f.1ad587f5.28d334b9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:23:53 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World some artists and Theosophy To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 From: teos9@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/2001 8:15:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eldon@theosophy.com writes: > Two people wrote this week with almost the same > question regarding artists and Theosophy. I'm > not familiar enough to offer either an answer. > Does someone know the answer to these questions? > > >Which of the following was not a follower of theosophy? > > > >a) Joseph Beuys > >b) Kazimir Malevich > >c) Marcel Broodthaers > >d) Wassily Kandinsky > >e) Piet Mondrian > > >Do either of the following consider themselves followers of > theosophy? > >Joseph Beuys > >Marcel Broodthaers > > -- Eldon Tucker > > Hi Eldon, Wassily Kandinsky and Piet Mondrian are two well known artists that treated theosophical themes in their work. I do not know anything about the other three. Sorry. Louis From bartl@sprynet.com Fri Sep 14 05:39:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 12:39:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 56726 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 12:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 12:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.atl.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.246) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 12:01:17 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (pool-63.50.146.57.kgp2.grid.net [63.50.146.57]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05724 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:19:41 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma References: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> <000d01c13c70$3f09dfe0$b2de603e@ringding> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > > There is no religious or policital reason that justifies mass murdering. > But violence is not limited to the physical plane alone. > There is psychical violence, too, and mental violence, although not so quick > to see. > > It seems that a mumbo is found now, as always. Strange that this Mr Laden > was according to newspaper reports a former CIA coworker. It seems that the > US military always produces its own enemies, like before with Pearl Harbor, > Gaddafi, Milosevic, Saddam Hussein. Or note the recent hoax with NATO's > action in the Cosovo named "Essential Harvest" were they gather the old > weapons they sold them before and to make place - for new weapons and new > profit. I realize that you may have difficulty understanding this, but there is a difference between attacking military targets of people trying to destroy you, and attacking innocent civilians from a country doing you no harm. Laden, among others, were among a population in Afghanistan being systematically poisoned (literally) by the Soviet Union. They begged the United States for help, and the United States gave them weapons and training to stop the Soviet's illegal weapons. Not to blow up buildings occupied by innocent civilians. Bart Lidofsky From katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com Fri Sep 14 05:45:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 12:45:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 90669 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 12:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 12:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20508.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.143) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 12:02:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20010914120257.1049.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.84.96.228] by web20508.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:02:57 PDT Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: Fw: 55 - DEAD AHEAD To: Schoolgate , theos-talk , Universal Seekers , young theosophists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Katinka Hesselink Once again somebody sent me this. For those who want to receive all of the quotes mail to Spiritus@Alltel.Net ; ScottR@Spiritus.Org . This is about finding death close. Or not ignoring death as part of our daily lives. This is not meant as a reference to the happenings in New York by the way. Katinka > From: "Scott Reeves" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:31 PM > Subject: 55 - DEAD AHEAD I've often said to people that the way to really live is to die. The passport to living is to imagine yourself in your grave. Imagine that you're lying in your coffin. Any posture you like. In India we put them in cross-legged. Sometimes they're carried that way to the burning ground. Sometimes, though, they're lying flat. So imagine you're lying flat and you're dead. Now look at your problems from that viewpoint. Changes everything, doesn't it? > > What a lovely, lovely meditation. Do it every day if you have the time. It's unbelievable, but you'll come alive. I have a meditation about that in a book of mine, Wellsprings. You see the body decomposing, then bones, then dust. Every time I talk about this, people say, "How disgusting!" But what's so disgusting about it? It's reality, for heaven's sake. But many of you don't want to see reality. You don't want to think of death. People don't live, most of you, you don't live, you're just keeping the body alive. That's not life. You're not living until it doesn't matter a tinker's damn to you whether you live or die. At that point you live. When you're ready to lose your life, you live it. But if you're protecting your life, you're dead. If you're sitting up there in the attic and I say to you, "Come on down!" and you say, "Oh no, I've read about people going down stairs. They slip and they break their necks; it's too dangerous." Or I can't get you to cross the street because you say, "You know how many people get run over when they cross the street?" If I can't get you to cross a street, how can I get you to cross a continent? And if I can't get you to peep out of your little narrow beliefs and convictions and look at another world, you're dead, you're completely dead; life has passed you by. You're sitting in your little prison, where you're frightened; you're going to lose your God, your religion, your friends, all kinds of things. Life is for the gambler, it really is. That's what Jesus was saying. Are you ready to risk it? Do you know when you're ready to risk it? When you've discovered that, when you know that this thing that people call life is not really life. People mistakenly think that living is keeping the body alive. So love the thought of death, love it. Go back to it again and again. Think of the loveliness of that corpse, of that skeleton, of those bones crumbling till there's only a handful of dust. From there on, what a relief, what a relief. Some of you probably don't know what I'm talking about at this point; you're too frightened to think of it. But it's such a relief when you can look back on life from that perspective. Or visit a graveyard. It's an enormously purifying and beautiful experience. You look at this name and you say, "Gee, he lived so many years ago, two centuries ago; he must have had all the problems that I have, must have had lots of sleepless nights. How crazy, we live for such a short time. An Italian poet said, "We live in a flash of light; evening comes and it is night forever." It's only a flash and we waste it. We waste it with our anxiety, our worries, our concerns, our burdens. Now, as you make that meditation, you can just end up with information; but you may end up with awareness. And in that moment of awareness, you are new. At least as long as it lasts. Then you'll know the difference between information and awareness. An astronomer friend was recently telling me some of the fundamental things about astronomy. I did not know, until he told me, that when you see the sun, you're seeing it where it was eight and a half minutes ago, not where it is now. Because it takes a ray of the sun eight and a half minutes to get to us. So you're not seeing it where it is; it's now somewhere else. Stars, too, have been sending light to us for hundreds of thousands of years. So when we're looking at them, they may not be where we're seeing them; they may be somewhere else. He said that, if we imagine a galaxy, a whole universe, this earth of ours would be lost toward the tail end of the Milky Way; not even in the center. And every one of the stars is a sun and some suns are so big that they could contain the sun and the earth and the distance between them. At a conservative estimate, there are one hundred million galaxies! The universe, as we know it, is expanding at the rate of two million miles a second. I was fascinated listening to all of this, and when I came out of the restaurant where we were eating, I looked up there and I had a different feel, a different perspective on life. That's awareness. So you can pick all this up as cold fact (and that's information), or suddenly you get another perspective on life -- what are we, what's this universe, what's human life? When you get that feel, that's what I mean when I speak of awareness. Anthony de Mello, SJ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com Fri Sep 14 05:53:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: katinka_hesselink@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 12:53:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 11962 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 12:11:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 12:11:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web20505.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.226.140) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 12:11:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20010914121134.38125.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.84.96.228] by web20505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:11:34 PDT Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: theosophical artists. To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1000462584.101.82807.l10@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Katinka Hesselink Hi Eldon, I got the first question in my mailbox as well. The question is frased stupidly enough to raise my eyebrows, but well my answer was about as follows: I know only about the last two. Piet Mondrian (one of our famous dutch-men) read the Secret Doctrine and was a member of the TS-Adyar his whole life. (though not active). I'll ask the dutch list for details. Kandinsky was certainly spiritually inspired and was part of the movement that used theosophy/spirituality as an artistic inspiration. But whether he was a theosophist, or read theosophical books - I don't remember. Katinka > From: "Eldon B Tucker" > Subject: some artists and Theosophy > > Two people wrote this week with almost the same > question regarding artists and Theosophy. I'm > not familiar enough to offer either an answer. > Does someone know the answer to these questions? > > >Which of the following was not a follower of theosophy? > > > >a) Joseph Beuys > >b) Kazimir Malevich > >c) Marcel Broodthaers > >d) Wassily Kandinsky > >e) Piet Mondrian > > >Do either of the following consider themselves followers > of > theosophy? > >Joseph Beuys > >Marcel Broodthaers __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ From ringding@blinx.de Fri Sep 14 10:00:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 17:00:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 74537 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 15:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 15:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 15:27:59 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f8EFRuU17086 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:27:56 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from ringding (cppp-192.blinx.de [62.96.222.192]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f8EFRr517063 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:27:54 +0200 Message-ID: <004501c13d32$01752c80$c0de603e@ringding> To: References: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> <000d01c13c70$3f09dfe0$b2de603e@ringding> <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:27:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" > I realize that you may have difficulty understanding this, but there is > a difference between attacking military targets of people trying to > destroy you, and attacking innocent civilians from a country doing you > no harm. Laden, among others, were among a population in Afghanistan > being systematically poisoned (literally) by the Soviet Union. They > begged the United States for help, and the United States gave them > weapons and training to stop the Soviet's illegal weapons. Not to blow > up buildings occupied by innocent civilians. > > Bart Lidofsky What? Where did I say that I don't know the difference between attacking civilians or soldiers? On the contrary I wished just to express this as the US Army always attacked and attacks civilians, including their own ("friendly fire" in Jewish-Masonic parlance). This was so in with the Yankees in the American Civil War, in WW I, in WW II, in Vietnam, in the Gulf war, in Palestine and in Ex-Yugoslavia. It is always the people who are suffering and never the background powers. The reason why the WTC was attacked was that some thing that the background powers who are responsible for the wars between nations for more and more profit and golden luxury had there seat there. It may be wrong, but it is believed by many who fear that one country after another is attacked by financial tricks or open violence when they don't allow the "American way of life" (social Darwinism, hypocrisy, attacking the weaker ones), called democracy and freedom in Jewish-Masonic parlance in their own lands. During WW II Hitler was the chosen monster. But since 1945 the USA initiated over 200 wars in the whole world to make the world "save for democracy" as this pervert gangster Roosevelt once said and is hold in high regards by many Americans even today. 200 wars since 1945 - and all without Hitler. It seems that in modern times never before existed a country which produced so much terror, hate and ignorance. Around 100 millions Red Indians were slaughtered by the US, around 20 millions Africans were hanged on US trees, 120 millions in the Soviet system which was invented and played from NY Wall Street. 30 millions victims in WW I, 60 millions victims in WW II. Several more millions during all conflicts USrael produces since 1945 to force all independent nations to accept by free will the hidden control by the Wall Street. Now the US is preparing for WW III. Are not around 500 millions of the last conflicts not enough? No, of course not. HPB said: "There is the danger of black magic, into which all the world, and especially America, is rushing as fast as it can go." - quoted from Sylvia Cranston's bio., 3rd ed., p. 331. So all my sympathy goes to the victims and to the American people, but not to the forces who took over the USA in 1913 and who try to enslave the whole world on all costs. The TS was founded for Universal Brotherhood and not for the tyranny of a single Brotherhood. Live and let live. Do not force foreign cultures to have McDonalds if they do not want to have McDonalds. Respect that other people have other ideals and that not for all people money is highest God. If you really believe that Laden is able to train in a military sense fighting pilots with a knowledge no civil pilot can have than you are invited to believe all what your exoteric leaders tell the public. To me it is Hollywood propaganda. Frank From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Sep 14 12:31:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 14 Sep 2001 19:31:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 87215 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 17:50:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eldon@theosophy.com Received: from [10.1.2.225] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2001 17:50:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:50:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: Sept 11 & "The Deeper Wound" (Deepak Chopra) Message-ID: <9ntg1d+aduv@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4479 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 167.167.110.112 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Here's something that someone just sent me that is interesting to think about. -- Eldon Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:14:45 -0400 Subject: Sept 11 & "The Deeper Wound" (Deepak Chopra) Below is something that Deepak Chopra wrote, that you might enjoy and want to pass around- The Deeper Wound As fate would have it, I was leaving New York on a jet flight that took off 45 minutes before the unthinkable happened. By the time we landed in Detroit, chaos had broken out. When I grasped the fact that American security had broken down so tragically, I couldn't respond at first. My wife and son were also in the air on separate flights, one to Los Angeles, one to San Diego. My body went absolutely rigid with fear. All I could think about was their safety, and it took several hours before I found out that their flights had been diverted and both were safe. Strangely, when the good news came, my body still felt that it had been hit by a truck. Of its own accord it seemed to feel a far greater trauma that reached out to the thousands who would not survive and the tens of thousands who would survive only to live through months and years of hell. And I asked myself, Why didn't I feel this way last week? Why didn't my body go stiff during the bombing of Iraq or Bosnia? Around the world my horror and worry are experienced every day. Mothers weep over horrendous loss, civilians are bombed mercilessly, refugees are ripped from any sense of home or homeland. Why did I not feel their anguish enough to call a halt to it? As we hear the calls for tightened American security and a fierce military response to terrorism, it is obvious that none of us has any answers. However, we feel compelled to ask some questions. Everything has a cause, so we have to ask, What was the root cause of this evil? We must find out not superficially but at the deepest level. There is no doubt that such evil is alive all around the world and is even celebrated. Does this evil grow from the suffering and anguish felt by people we don't know and therefore ignore? Have they lived in this condition for a long time? One assumes that whoever did this attack feels implacable hatred for America. Why were we selected to be the focus of suffering around the world? All this hatred and anguish seems to have religion at its basis. Isn't something terribly wrong when jihads and wars develop in the name of God? Isn't God invoked with hatred in Ireland, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, and even among the intolerant sects of America? Can any military response make the slightest difference in the underlying cause? Is there not a deep wound at the heart of humanity? If there is a deep wound, doesn't it affect everyone? When generations of suffering respond with bombs, suicidal attacks, and biological warfare, who first developed these weapons? Who sells them? Who gave birth to the satanic technologies now being turned against us? If all of us are wounded, will revenge work? Will punishment in any form toward anyone solve the wound or aggravate it? Will an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and limb for a limb, leave us all blind, toothless and crippled? Tribal warfare has been going on for two thousand years and has now gotten magnified globally. Can tribal warfare be brought to an end? Is patriotism and nationalism even relevant anymore, or is this another form of tribalism? What are you and I as persons going to do about what is happening? Can we afford to let the deeper wound fester any longer? Everyone is calling this an attack on America, but is it not a rift in our collective soul? Isn't this an attack on civilization from without that is also from within? When we have secured our safety once more and cared for the wounded, after the period of shock and mourning is over, it will be time for soul searching. I only hope that these questions are confronted with the deepest spiritual intent. None of us will feel safe again behind the shield of military might and stockpiled arsenals. There can be no safety until the root cause is faced. In this moment of shock I don't think anyone of us has the answers. It is imperative that we pray and offer solace and help to each other. But if you and I are having a single thought of violence or hatred against anyone in the world at this moment, we are contributing to the wounding of the world. Love, Deepak From nos@granite.net.au Fri Sep 14 17:07:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 15 Sep 2001 00:07:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 61632 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 23:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 23:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 23:05:01 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18370 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:36:16 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World US Karma Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:38:54 +0930 Message-ID: <000401c13d72$3a4a52c0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "nos" ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Bart Lidofsky [mailto:bartl@sprynet.com] ##Sent: Friday, 14 September 2001 12:50 PM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma ## ## ##Frank Reitemeyer wrote: ##> ##> There is no religious or policital reason that justifies mass ##> murdering. But violence is not limited to the physical plane alone. ##> There is psychical violence, too, and mental violence, ##although not so ##> quick to see. ##> ##> It seems that a mumbo is found now, as always. Strange that this Mr ##> Laden was according to newspaper reports a former CIA coworker. It ##> seems that the US military always produces its own enemies, like ##> before with Pearl Harbor, Gaddafi, Milosevic, Saddam ##Hussein. Or note ##> the recent hoax with NATO's action in the Cosovo named "Essential ##> Harvest" were they gather the old weapons they sold them ##before and to ##> make place - for new weapons and new profit. ## ## I realize that you may have difficulty understanding ##this, but there is a difference between attacking military ##targets of people trying to destroy you, and attacking ##innocent civilians from a country doing you no harm. Laden, ##among others, were among a population in Afghanistan being ##systematically poisoned (literally) by the Soviet Union. They ##begged the United States for help, and the United States gave ##them weapons and training to stop the Soviet's illegal ##weapons. Not to blow up buildings occupied by innocent civilians. ## ## Bart Lidofsky ## ## Has it been proven CONCLUSIVELY that it was CIA trained Bin laden yet? America has a history of doing things to itself to pass laws and get more defense funding. I just don't trust the US government enough to believe ANYTHING they say. Their track record is shocking. Nos Novus ordo seclorum From nos@granite.net.au Fri Sep 14 17:10:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 15 Sep 2001 00:10:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 73754 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2001 23:08:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2001 23:08:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Sep 2001 23:08:43 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18455 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:39:57 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World US Karma Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:42:35 +0930 Message-ID: <000501c13d72$bdf683a0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <004501c13d32$01752c80$c0de603e@ringding> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "nos" I agree with Frank. The US as a nation gets what it deserves because it's populace ALLOWS the criminal government to act on it's BEHALF. Look at the vote turnouts. Those who live behind the veil of the US media should really read the links from the following sites: www.nexusmagazine.com www.newdawnmagazine.com My sympathies to the INDIVIUALS and FAMILIES involved. I have no Sympathy for the STATE of America. It is a Nation. A nation is but a line on a map - there should be no nations. ONE WORLD ONE RACE THE HUMAN RACE Namaste Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Frank Reitemeyer [mailto:ringding@blinx.de] ##Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 12:57 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma ## ## ##> I realize that you may have difficulty understanding this, ##but there ##> is a difference between attacking military targets of ##people trying to ##> destroy you, and attacking innocent civilians from a ##country doing you ##> no harm. Laden, among others, were among a population in ##Afghanistan ##> being systematically poisoned (literally) by the Soviet Union. They ##> begged the United States for help, and the United States gave them ##> weapons and training to stop the Soviet's illegal weapons. ##Not to blow ##> up buildings occupied by innocent civilians. ##> ##> Bart Lidofsky ## ##What? Where did I say that I don't know the difference ##between attacking civilians or soldiers? On the contrary I ##wished just to express this as the US Army always attacked ##and attacks civilians, including their own ("friendly fire" ##in Jewish-Masonic parlance). This was so in with the Yankees ##in the American Civil War, in WW I, in WW II, in Vietnam, in ##the Gulf war, in Palestine and in Ex-Yugoslavia. It is always ##the people who are suffering and never the background powers. ##The reason why the WTC was attacked was that some thing that ##the background powers who are responsible for the wars ##between nations for more and more profit and golden luxury ##had there seat there. It may be wrong, but it is believed by ##many who fear that one country after another is attacked by ##financial tricks or open violence when they don't allow the ##"American way of life" (social Darwinism, hypocrisy, ##attacking the weaker ones), called democracy and freedom in ##Jewish-Masonic parlance in their own lands. During WW II ##Hitler was the chosen monster. But since 1945 the USA ##initiated over 200 wars in the whole world to make the world ##"save for democracy" as this pervert gangster Roosevelt once ##said and is hold in high regards by many Americans even ##today. 200 wars since 1945 - and all without Hitler. It seems ##that in modern times never before existed a country which ##produced so much terror, hate and ignorance. Around 100 ##millions Red Indians were slaughtered by the US, around 20 ##millions Africans were hanged on US trees, 120 millions in ##the Soviet system which was invented and played from NY Wall ##Street. 30 millions victims in WW I, 60 millions victims in ##WW II. Several more millions during all conflicts USrael ##produces since 1945 to force all independent nations to ##accept by free will the hidden control by the Wall Street. ##Now the US is preparing for WW III. Are not around 500 ##millions of the last conflicts not enough? ## ##No, of course not. HPB said: "There is the danger of black ##magic, into which all the world, and especially America, is ##rushing as fast as it can go." - quoted from Sylvia ##Cranston's bio., 3rd ed., p. 331. ## ##So all my sympathy goes to the victims and to the American ##people, but not to the forces who took over the USA in 1913 ##and who try to enslave the whole world on all costs. The TS ##was founded for Universal Brotherhood and not for the tyranny ##of a single Brotherhood. Live and let live. Do not force ##foreign cultures to have McDonalds if they do not want to ##have McDonalds. Respect that other people have other ideals ##and that not for all people money is highest God. ## ##If you really believe that Laden is able to train in a ##military sense fighting pilots with a knowledge no civil ##pilot can have than you are invited to believe all what your ##exoteric leaders tell the public. To me it is Hollywood ##propaganda. Frank ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From bartl@sprynet.com Fri Sep 14 21:19:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 15 Sep 2001 04:19:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 58517 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2001 04:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Sep 2001 04:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO barry.mail.mindspring.net) (207.69.200.25) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Sep 2001 04:19:41 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com (pool-63.53.118.3.mhub.grid.net [63.53.118.3]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10001 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3BA2D6F0.1C2B7074@sprynet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:20:00 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma References: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> <000d01c13c70$3f09dfe0$b2de603e@ringding> <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> <004501c13d32$01752c80$c0de603e@ringding> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > and attacks civilians, including their own ("friendly fire" in > Jewish-Masonic parlance). > life" (social Darwinism, hypocrisy, attacking the weaker ones), called > democracy and freedom in Jewish-Masonic parlance in their own lands. > During WW II Hitler was the chosen monster. > over 200 wars in the whole world to make the world "save for democracy" as > this pervert gangster Roosevelt once said and is hold in high regards by > millions Africans were hanged on US trees, 120 millions in the Soviet system > which was invented and played from NY Wall Street. > invited to believe all what your exoteric leaders tell the public. To me it > is Hollywood propaganda. You forgot to include the Roman Catholics this time in your bigoted, paranoid fantasies. If you want to participate in a theosophical group, you might consider re-reading the first object of all the Theosophical Societies. Bart Lidofsky From eazi7@earthlink.net Fri Sep 14 21:33:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eazi7@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 15 Sep 2001 04:33:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 72153 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2001 04:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2001 04:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Sep 2001 04:33:38 -0000 Received: from [165.247.42.236] (user-2iveanc.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.42.236]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11993 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:33:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: Michael Chavis on 9/13/01 11:19 PM, Bart Lidofsky at bartl@sprynet.com wrote: > Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >> >> There is no religious or policital reason that justifies mass murdering. >> But violence is not limited to the physical plane alone. >> There is psychical violence, too, and mental violence, although not so quick >> to see. >> >> It seems that a mumbo is found now, as always. Strange that this Mr Laden >> was according to newspaper reports a former CIA coworker. It seems that the >> US military always produces its own enemies, like before with Pearl Harbor, >> Gaddafi, Milosevic, Saddam Hussein. Or note the recent hoax with NATO's >> action in the Cosovo named "Essential Harvest" were they gather the old >> weapons they sold them before and to make place - for new weapons and new >> profit. > > I realize that you may have difficulty understanding this, but there is > a difference between attacking military targets of people trying to > destroy you, and attacking innocent civilians from a country doing you > no harm. Laden, among others, were among a population in Afghanistan > being systematically poisoned (literally) by the Soviet Union. They > begged the United States for help, and the United States gave them > weapons and training to stop the Soviet's illegal weapons. Not to blow > up buildings occupied by innocent civilians. > > Bart Lidofsky > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > There is no real difference. Taking a life, killing, is killing. Sometimes it is necessary to take a life, i.e., to save someone else or yourself, but to cause a death is to create karmic circumstances the repercussions of which are generally unassailable in one lifetime. Here there is no rational discussion regarding other possibilities. Careful when deciding to take a life. Revenge, is no excuse, and killing, we know from our present execution system is no deterrent. In this case killing by us will probably only fuel hatred, anger and the wish to continue the killing. Is this what we want? I'm certain that I feel anger, rage even as I watch over and over the dramatic scenes, and as I talk, live and work with people who are close to this matter and as I struggle. I'm sure I want to hit something, or punish someone, but alas, given the personal and world-wide repercussions, there must be a saner way. -- Michael Chavis From Pendragon@fix.net Fri Sep 14 21:38:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pendragon@fix.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 15 Sep 2001 04:38:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 80088 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2001 04:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2001 04:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.241) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Sep 2001 04:38:05 -0000 Received: from istvanba ([63.196.195.32]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GJO0035DSVFWF@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:34:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Theos-World US Karma To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <00ad01c13d9f$b6021a10$20c3c43f@istvanba> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <6b.1a87fa0e.28d05ee7@aol.com> <000d01c13c70$3f09dfe0$b2de603e@ringding> <3BA1774D.295C1BC8@sprynet.com> <004501c13d32$01752c80$c0de603e@ringding> From: Pendragon Not much can be added to the words of wisdom from ultinla@juno.com. Everything is Action, Karma, and the result of Action in this seven-fold world. Says Goethe: "Am Anfang war die Tat!" (In the beginning there was Action!). The "Christian" type of prayer is pernicious----the opposite of will-prayer that was suggested and even demanded in Key to Theosophy-----mere abject begging, the very antithesis of occultism or true religion. You cannot get in touch with the god within by such creeping. The present campaign for revenge will create more dreadful Karma. And behind this all, as HPB predicted, lurks naught but the infernal spirit of trade-----Mammon in us all.... That the enemy is us is a given----for who else but that which in Egypt was termed Ka----the lower self---devil---Mammon!, as Yehoshua Ben Pandira called it in Ancient Palestine----can truly try to hurt Manas, that drop from the ocean of the Universal Mind or Soul that ever brings to birth the divine child, Hermes-Buddhi? It is always our own deeds that come back upon us to haunt and harrass and accuse us and speak judgement over us, and that sentence will not get any lighter if we rebel against it by added new bloodshed of unforseeable consequences that we bring upon the world, with the "blessing of our allies" or without.... But, the prophet, as ever, will be muted by silence, by ignoring the Menetekel she so vividly tried to make us never forget----and even we ourselves cannot hear anymore what she has said, having drowned her spirit in an ocean of intellectualism, speculation, and cant... "Close the book and think", as WQJ----"A part of myself since eons"-----told us in "Letters That Have Helped Me". For-----"knowledge comes first in dreams and visons"----not from television and politicians who try to create hate, and call for revenge... Has not Mahatma Gandhi termed it the most essential part of Satyagraha that, if needs be, we give our own lives to protect the lives of those who attack us? Has not Buddha demanded to increase love in our hearts the more we are being attacked, that we may be fed daily on the fruits of injustice and misunderstanding? Has not Yehoshua demanded to turn the other cheek to those who hit us, and "throw" bread at those who stone us? Where is that Love thy neighbor as thyself----in "Christian" America today? Sancta simplicitas, Geduld verlaß mich nicht! But if we had divested ourselves of all spirituality, and are steeped knee-deep in the intellectualism of Kali Yuga, have we never heard at least of that truth: Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner? Pendragon ----- Original Message ----- From: ultinla@juno.com To: study@blavatsky.net Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:22 PM Subject: [bn-study] Re: what should we do now? If all that we see happening are effects of something that happened sometime back in the astral light, then it may be that the best thing we can do is set up new causes. Since prayer as known in the West kills self-reliance, then it might be useful go out and help someone in need in the circle where you live. If that "where you live" phrase is in Manhattan then there's obvious work to do. If it is in Kabul or the Gaza strip there is obvious work. Sometime rolling over in one's head past events helps remind one of errors not to be a party to. For example, shortly after Pearl Harbor we put all our Japanese citizens in internment camps and confiscated their property ---this include young, old, rich, poor, ----everyone. Mind you, these were citizens ---many quite willing to fight for the country!!! Hatred and anger know few boundaries, but the SELF-MOVING UNIT they cannot reach: "When Parasara, whose father was devoured by a Rakshasa, was preparing himself to destroy (magically) the whole race, his grandsire, Vasishta, says a few extremely suggestive words to him. He shows the irate Sage, on his own confession, that there is Evil and Karma, but no "evil spirits." "Let thy wrath be appeased," he says. "The Rakshasas are not culpable; thy father's death was the work of Karma. Anger is the passion of fools; it becometh not a wise man. By whom it may be asked, is any one killed? Every man reaps the consequences of his own acts. Anger, my son, is the destruction of all that man obtains . . . and prevents the attainment of emancipation. The sages shun wrath. Be not thou, my child, subject to its influence. " (S.D.I, 415-56) --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnstudy/bibleSyllabus1999.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [Pendragon@fix.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-5075937C@lists.lyris.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer"