From ramadoss@infohwy.com Sun Jul 01 10:50:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 17:50:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 90139 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 17:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 17:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 17:50:41 -0000 Received: from senzar (max1-67.max1.sa.infohwy.com [207.90.224.67]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ryanw-infohwy) with ESMTP id MAA15057; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:59:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010701124606.031ed240@mail.infohwy.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.infohwy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 12:48:10 -0500 To: LoveChld11@aol.com, , theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Re: Subj: Computer Security Cc: Listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE In-Reply-To: <11.167e41bc.2870b82e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss Thanks for highlighting the need for everyone to have a firewall. ___MKR___ At 01:30 PM 7/1/01 -0400, LoveChld11@aol.com wrote: >Many users who have high speed connection, such as cable or dsl may be >innocent victims of penetration and being used by zombie programs attacking >other sites. Here is an interesting account anyone interested should read. >There is also a mention effectiveness of firewalls. > >Bob: Not only high speed connections, but non-high speed >connections such as 56K ,etc. Anybody who is using Win9x >is vulnerable whether they have high speed connections or >not. I've been using Zone Alarm for sometime. However, I >didn't fully appreciate its total usefulness until this article. > >Thanks for posting it. > >Bob > >---- > >Steve Gibson has a fascinating account of his experience with >DDoS at http://grc.com/dos/grcdos.htm From ramadoss@infohwy.com Sun Jul 01 11:49:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 18:49:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 16161 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 18:49:46 -0000 Received: from senzar (max1-66.max1.sa.infohwy.com [207.90.224.66]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ryanw-infohwy) with ESMTP id NAA19318; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:58:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010701133948.02002f00@www.infohwy.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@www.infohwy.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 13:46:17 -0500 To: Listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE, , theos-l@list.vnet.net, pentax-discuss@listserv.navidec.com, help@stic.net, theos-news@list.vnet.net, dblinn@earthlink.com Subject: Computer Security Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com With the increased instances of viruses and computer attacks by penetrating our computers, I just installed a firewall and lo and behold someone from Italy was trying to get into my machine connected via regular dialup telephone connection. And the attempt was blocked by the firewall. Incidentally, the ISP I was using was the target of a denial of service attack which drowned the system and no traffic could be transmitted. The moral of this story is that a virus program combined with a firewall is necessary for all machines especially Windows machines. A free firewall such as Zonealarm would be quite effective. ___MKR___ From eldon@theosophy.com Sun Jul 01 14:12:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 21:12:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 52121 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 21:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:12:35 -0000 Received: from scribe.theosophy.com (sc-24-160-57-230.socal.rr.com [24.160.57.230]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27172 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:12:13 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701141208.00a0e860@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:12:18 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: going beyond plain text Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker With Adobe Acrobat, it's possible to encode a document to include graphics, to allow for on-screen reading in various sizes and manners with the free Acrobat Reader program, and to print out documents on a large variety of printers with the exact page layout and appearance being preserved. One example is the full-page NEW YORK TIMES Book Review Ad on the Cranston biography of H.P. Blavatsky. It appeared on May 27, 2001. The 377k PDF file can be viewed at: Another type of preserving the look of an ancient text, allowing it to be read and viewed in many formats, is done by Octavio. Their site is: At some time, it might be good if the original theosophical materials, including a copy of the first edition of THE SECRET DOCTRINE and of the original mahatma letters in the British Museum could be digitized by them? It would take getting access to the materials, and funding to pay for the effort. -- Eldon Tucker From sanctius@mail.com Sun Jul 01 16:34:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sanctius@mail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 23:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 7319 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 23:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep02-app.kolumbus.fi) (193.229.0.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:34:12 -0000 Received: from B ([62.248.130.123]) by fep02-app.kolumbus.fi (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-20001017) with SMTP id <20010701233410.JMAG28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:34:10 +0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Doctrine v2001 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:35:13 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sanctius_J=E4rvenp=E4=E4_Finland?= Reply-To: sanctius@mail.com References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701141208.00a0e860@pop3.norton.antivirus> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701141208.00a0e860@pop3.norton.antivirus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010701233410.JMAG28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-eGroups-From: sanctius@mail.com (Sanctius) From: sanctius@mail.com Eldon B Tucker: >At some time, it might be good if the original theosophical >materials, including a copy of the first edition of THE >SECRET DOCTRINE and of the original mahatma letters in the >British Museum could be digitized by them? I think it would be good for everyone if the Mahatmas could write the original theosophical materials again every hundred year. Where are the Mahatmas today? If not on earth, why not? What are the Mahatmas doing? If not writing, why not? From cstclr@yahoo.com Sun Jul 01 16:45:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cstclr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 23:45:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 39587 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 23:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14707.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.124) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:45:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20010701234531.63567.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.119.36.98] by web14707.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:45:31 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010627182024.00b3c8e0@mail.infohwy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Chris StClair No, the time will not come when the whole world looks down on the US on the capital punishment issue. If the opinions of other countries were relevant on this issue, and they are not, the US would nonetheless be in the world majority on this point. Of the ten largest countries (by population) in the world, all ten have a death penalty. With respect to Europe you would be well advised not to confuse the opinions of European politicians and journalists with the opinions of the European populace. The last poll I saw on the issue showed a large majority of European citizens in favor of the death peanlty, despite the positions of their governments. Chris --- ramadoss wrote: > World has come a long way on the issue of Capital > Punishment. In the > European Union, abolishment of capital punishment is > a pre condition for > any joining nation. Of course in the US, Capital > Punishment is still a very > popular publish sentiment and President George > Bush's legacy is in perhaps > the largest number of executions under any political > leader. > > A time will soon come when US will be looked down by > the entire world on > this issue. > > ___MKR___ > > > > At 07:03 PM 6/27/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Whether we have the right to kill anyone is another > question. If all and any > >progress can only take place on this plane we take > away an individual's right > >and opportunity to learn. It is a major sin > against the individual and all > >of nature. > > > >Myrra Lee > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cstclr@yahoo.com Sun Jul 01 16:49:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cstclr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 23:49:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 46820 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 23:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14706.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.123) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:49:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20010701234944.59129.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.119.36.98] by web14706.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:49:44 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <6.18a70545.286bc032@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Chris StClair No, it is not a sin against nature. Every living thing on this earth will die, with many of those deaths being far more violent and grisly than an execution. An individual does not have a right to learn. An individual only has a chance to try to learn. If an individual loses that chance through her own violent proclivities and disrepect of others, then that individual has herself to blame. Chris --- toy77@aol.com wrote: > Well - in rereading what I wrote yesterday I saw > that I made a serious error. > I did not mean to say the there are no SPECIFIC > teachings about capital > punishment - what I meant to say was there ARE > specific teachings. Judge's > article is clearly specific. > > Whether we have the right to kill anyone is another > question. If all and any > progress can only take place on this plane we take > away an individual's right > and opportunity to learn. It is a major sin against > the individual and all > of nature. > > Myrra Lee > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cstclr@yahoo.com Sun Jul 01 16:57:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cstclr@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Jul 2001 23:57:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 77056 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jul 2001 23:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14704.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.121) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:57:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20010701235734.28476.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.119.36.98] by web14704.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:57:34 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3d.da979c2.286bc129@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Chris StClair No, it isn't becoming prevalent in today's society. It is becoming prevalent in today's journalism, which is a very different thing. And if you ever needed an argument in favor of the death penalty, the fact that a majority of American journalists oppose it, is a very strong argument in favor of the death penalty. I assume you meant "humane" execution. And yes, there are humane executions. Most executions by lethal injection are far more humane than the misery and pain that come with accidental death, death by cancer or death at the hands of a psychopath. As to the violence to the inner person, prove it. I would rather pass my last moment with a painless injection than dying in the mangled hulk of a burning auto, dying wracked in pain from cancer as my body eats itself or dying after being raped repeatedly and stabbed repeatedly. Those who viciously murder other human beings are getting far better than they deserve when they die by lethal injection. Chris --- toy77@aol.com wrote: > This is Myrra again. We did spend a meeting > discussing capital punishment > and all its ramifications . The feeling against it > which is becoming > prevalent in today's society is a sign that the > teachings have worked their > way into people's hearts - if not their conscious > brains. Karma can take a > long, long time to work itself out. The fact that > so many see the injustice > of it, without understanding what goes on on other > planes is a great step > forward. There is no such thing as a peaceful and > human execution. The > violence to the inner person is not perceptible to > those who watch - only to > those who know. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jul 01 18:00:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:00:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 8583 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:00:33 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.46.92]) by escape.com ; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:56:53 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B3FC758.16320DB9@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:59:04 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World going beyond plain text References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701141208.00a0e860@pop3.norton.antivirus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Eldon B Tucker wrote: > At some time, it might be good if the original theosophical > materials, including a copy of the first edition of THE > SECRET DOCTRINE and of the original mahatma letters in the > British Museum could be digitized by them? It would take getting > access to the materials, and funding to pay for the effort. There is soon going to be a folio edition of reproductions of the Mahatma Letters. I doubt that they will be released in electronic format while there is money to be made otherwise... Bart Lidofsky From mark@withoutwalls.com Sun Jul 01 18:00:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mark@withoutwalls.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:00:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 69559 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:00:47 -0000 Received: from withoutwalls.com ([63.195.73.163]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GFT00C4SMTAIZ@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:02:20 -0700 Subject: Testing To: theos-l@list.vnet.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <3B3FC81B.D4E77928@withoutwalls.com> Organization: Without Walls: An Internet Art Space MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en From: Mark Kusek Test From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jul 01 18:05:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:05:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 79976 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:05:35 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.46.92]) by escape.com ; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:02:27 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B3FC8A6.CE0398B6@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:04:38 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment References: <20010701234944.59129.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Chris StClair wrote: > An individual does not have a right to learn. An > individual only has a chance to try to learn. If an > individual loses that chance through her own violent > proclivities and disrepect of others, then that > individual has herself to blame. "I learned that murderers die for their crimes, Even if we make a mistake sometimes" - Tom Paxton From mark@withoutwalls.com Sun Jul 01 18:05:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mark@withoutwalls.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:05:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 91737 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:05:56 -0000 Received: from withoutwalls.com ([63.195.73.163]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GFT00CJGN1VBM@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:07:30 -0700 Subject: Maps & Diagrams To: theos-l@list.vnet.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gschueler@earthlink.net, dalval14@earthlink.net Message-id: <3B3FC950.2B8F2A69@withoutwalls.com> Organization: Without Walls: An Internet Art Space MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en From: Mark Kusek As a gift to the list, I posted some of my recent maps and diagrams to my website. I think a look at them might give you all a little better understanding of where I've been coming from in the recent discussions about m/Monads. They are works in progress, but I think they hold up reasonably well. It'd be neat to get some feedback from the learned and to bounce the ideas around. Go to: www.withoutwalls.com/maps_diagrams There are three image directories there. The most meaty is "psychographs." It contains a series of 8 sequential images that seek to illustrate an attempt at a Jungian-Theosophy synthesis. They build gradually upon each other as the exploration goes from the conscious personal ego into the layers of the unconscious before flipping to an attempt at theosophical equivalents. It's stuff I've been thinking about for a while. I even tried a pass at "emptiness," although I can hear you laughing already for my feeble attempt at concretizing something that can't be. The image "008.gif" expresses it pretty well, though, depending upon how you look at it! The ninth image in the set is a copy of the full concrete illustration sans text. Hopefully it can be used as a prompt for your own intuitions. You might even start with that one first if you're feeling adventurous. At any rate, at least you'll be able to see my terms and definitions. It'll explain a lot of my stance on some of the recent discussions. But they are straw men at best. Feel free to shoot holes in them, find leaks or otherwise laugh at my hobby. I'll be interested in your responses. There are lots more where these came from. The second series is "ego." It is a 2 image set, illustrating the "psychic doughnut" idea of mine from another view point. If you guys think it's tough talking about this junk, try drawing it! I feel a little like Richard Dreyfuss carving up the mashed potatoes! Visual representations aren't much better than words sometimes. I always got a lot out of the illustrations in Theosophy books and have found a wealth of material from all over the place, East and West, past and present that adds to and enriches it. As an artist, this is one of my passions and I have quite a collection from my interest. The final series is "schema." This is an earlier attempt to synthesize. Variations on the theme. Give 'em a look and let me know what you guys think. It might further the dialogue. All are welcome. Regards, -- M PS. If anyone is interested, there is a wonderful article in the new issue of "Arts of Asia" magazine (Vol 31, #3) on 'Neo-Tantric 20th Century Painting." Check it out if you can. I find it very interesting in light of my recent forays into depicting the undepictable! Theosophy has had a profound impact on the arts, including some very seminal modernists like Kandinsky, Klee, Albers and Mondrian. I've recently also had my search rewarded by finding lots of material on the theosophist artists Agnes Pelton, Charmion Van Weigand and the abstractionist 'Transcendental Painting Group' that included notable Canadian theosophists like Lawren Harris. If anybody wants to discuss "art and theosophy," please count me in. peace. --------------------- From mark@withoutwalls.com Sun Jul 01 18:08:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mark@withoutwalls.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:08:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 85542 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snfc21.pbi.net) (206.13.28.240) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:08:10 -0000 Received: from withoutwalls.com ([63.195.73.163]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GFT00A8MN5LLX@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:09:44 -0700 Subject: Clarification To: theos-l@list.vnet.net, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gschueler@earthlink.net, dalval14@earthlink.net Message-id: <3B3FC9D6.C1760DD3@withoutwalls.com> Organization: Without Walls: An Internet Art Space MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en From: Mark Kusek > JERRY: OK with me. How do we distinguish all those monads? Monad1, Monad2, > etc? Fine with me. I think you and I agree that with any consideration of "the Monad in Atma", "the Monad in Atma-Buddhi", or "the Monad in Atma-Buddhi-Manas" we are talking about the "ray" of the Monad as it manifests in and through these vehicles on their respective planes and not the non-dual Monad itself. It's perhaps confusing at best to keep putting Monad in front of everything. I'd be just as comfortable saying "Atma-Buddhi" for example, knowing full well that I'm actually meaning the Monad's "Ray" as it manifests in "Atma-Buddhi." But I can bang a dead horse on the head with the best of them if it helps clarification. > JERRY: There is no Buddhist teaching having to do with Logos or Logii, > anywhere. The six kingdoms are the inhabitants of the three realms (desire, > form, and formless). Blavatsky mentions these six kingdoms, so she knew > about them, but she does not include them into her scheme. Yet, her > "devachan" sounds a lot like the god-kingdom. OK, I'll go out on a limb here and say that, because the Solar Logos is said to be a still evolving being in manifestation, albeit putting its own evolutionary progress on hold for the manvantara to act as the Supreme hierarch of the Solar System, and that it also is bound by its own karma, that it belongs in the Formless realm along with the other Buddhist "Gods." It, by the definition above, means also that it has not yet realized Emptiness. It's own karma probably can be said to contribute, therefore to the "creation" of the system. Does that work for you? > JERRY: Oh yeah, that clears it up (ahemm!). I always thought of her "laya > centers" as being "holes in space." I would note that your explanation that > "ultimate atoms" (whatever these are?) "are then aggregated to form..." is > exactly what I was referring to when I said that there was no real > explanation of How? What you are saying above is the Theosophical > explanation of what is going on, but not how, and it is just that very > "How?" business that Tzongkapa uses to reject the whole idea of monads. Sorry! LOL! I plead the fifth! What does Tzongkapa say as a refutation? > JERRY: That's because the human mind has no problem with a continuing on of > evolution into the far distant future. The logic breakdown comes about when > we go backward, into the past. A linear progression implies a beginning at > some point in time, and it is there where all logical explanations break > down. I don't know. I either just assume an unending scale in both directions, or a conscious choice to "play" games. > JERRY: It is cosmogenic. Buddhists have several intricate cosmologies > without any Creator-deities. Dzogchen explains it in terms of colored lights > and "eight gates" and so on without any references to a divine Creator. That explains everything! ;-) > Virtually all Buddhists schools accept the chain of 12 independent causative > links. These begin with ignorance, and the second is action in the sense > that first comes ignorance (maya) and then afterwards comes karma. The whole > thrust of the Buddhist Path is to eliminate ignorance and thereby > simultaneous one will eliminate/consume personal karma. You can't "work off" > karma by doing good deeds. Bad deeds produce iron chains of karma, while > good deeds produce golden chains of karma that are equally binding. However, > good deeds do produce merit, and merit is essential for Buddhahood. All six > kingdoms are karmic, and we can (and do) enter each of these six kingdoms > depending on our karma. The teaching is that after death, we enter the > bardo, and from the bardo we are reborn into any of the six kingdoms > according to our karma. Coming back here as a human being is only one of the > six possible outcomes for us. Understood. I don't have a particular problem however, with the ideas of the karma of the unrealized "gods" contributing to the creation of the manifest realms as well as the sentient beings in the other five kingdoms. I can see this lending a larger dimension to the manifestation and human beings playing a part of it. I'm reading "Myriad Worlds" at your suggestion and the root text smacks to me of a Buddhist parallel to the SD. Lots of possible correspondences there, I think. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between the two. The most interesting thing that I've gotten out of it so far, which will probably come as a shock to Dallas (maybe) is the idea that Karma itself (as causality), only operates in the field of manifestation and NOWHERE ELSE. It arises simultaneously with the manifestation and is related ONLY to it. That to me was a golden nugget. > JERRY: I don't know, but I would assume that they do. Agreed. > JERRY: Yes, and therein lies the problem - a logic problem. How can anything > that is time-less change? Our entire notion of change is based on the > assumption of having time for the change to occur. Logically, without time > there can be no change, and so if the Divine Monad doesn't change, what is > all the manvantaric evolutionary business for? Play? ---------------------- I posted some stuff to my web site a few days ago. When I got the link back in the digest of the list it didn't work. If anybody has tried to look at the diagrams I posted there and couldn't get to them, I apologize. Try this: http://www.withoutwalls.com/maps_diagrams/ But if it doesn't work just type in "www.withoutwalls.com" then backslash and "maps_diagrams" (underscore not hyphen). I think something gets messed up between my post and the digest as I had copied the URL directly from my browser. But it didn't work for me and I apologize again. I just put up five more images there in a sub directory called "clarification" that attempts to articulate the recent Dallas, Jerry, Mark discussion on Monads. Please take a look if you're interested. I'll be curious to hear your responses. Regards, -- Mark From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jul 01 18:17:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:17:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 13157 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:17:01 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.46.92]) by escape.com ; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:13:58 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B3FCB58.856624CC@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:16:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment References: <20010701235734.28476.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Chris StClair wrote: > > No, it isn't becoming prevalent in today's society. It > is becoming prevalent in today's journalism, which is > a very different thing. And if you ever needed an > argument in favor of the death penalty, the fact that > a majority of American journalists oppose it, is a > very strong argument in favor of the death penalty. Only if you throw logic and reason out the window. We have already evolved beyond the 4th root race; try catching up with the human race, and stop letting your spinal column make your decisions for you. > I assume you meant "humane" execution. And yes, there > are humane executions. Most executions by lethal > injection are far more humane than the misery and pain > that come with accidental death, death by cancer or > death at the hands of a psychopath. And the relevance of this? > As to the violence to the inner person, prove it. I > would rather pass my last moment with a painless > injection than dying in the mangled hulk of a burning > auto, dying wracked in pain from cancer as my body > eats itself or dying after being raped repeatedly and > stabbed repeatedly. > > Those who viciously murder other human beings are > getting far better than they deserve when they die by > lethal injection. And, this logically means? Or is this more, "Must get REVENGE!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!"? Bart Lidofsky From nos@granite.net.au Sun Jul 01 18:53:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 95014 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:53:29 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10286 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:24:01 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Computer Security Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:26:43 +0930 Message-ID: <000901c1029a$3eefb300$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010701133948.02002f00@www.infohwy.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" But still they are as nothing when it comes to Echelon and PROMIS. Ask the Royal Canadian Mounted Police - For the first time ever trhey didn't get their man (I suppose it's hard when your 'MAN" is the criminal US government) Namaste Nos (who still believes in an international Zionist conspiracy) :) ##-----Original Message----- ##From: ramadoss@infohwy.com [mailto:ramadoss@infohwy.com] ##Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 4:16 AM ##To: Listening-l@zrz.TU-Berlin.DE; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; ##theos-l@list.vnet.net; pentax-discuss@listserv.navidec.com; ##help@stic.net; theos-news@list.vnet.net; dblinn@earthlink.com ##Subject: Theos-World Computer Security ## ## ##With the increased instances of viruses and computer attacks ##by penetrating ##our computers, I just installed a firewall and lo and behold ##someone from ##Italy was trying to get into my machine connected via regular dialup ##telephone connection. And the attempt was blocked by the firewall. ##Incidentally, the ISP I was using was the target of a denial ##of service ##attack which drowned the system and no traffic could be transmitted. ## ##The moral of this story is that a virus program combined with ##a firewall is ##necessary for all machines especially Windows machines. A ##free firewall ##such as Zonealarm would be quite effective. ## ##___MKR___ ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From nos@granite.net.au Sun Jul 01 18:56:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:56:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 94622 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:56:42 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10349 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:27:14 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Doctrine v2001 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:29:56 +0930 Message-ID: <000a01c1029a$b209f260$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <20010701233410.JMAG28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" Unfortunately I've got 3 kids to look after. Anyway with the internet our works are out there and I've spoken to the other Adepts and we would like to see more dissemination of the materials throughout newsgroups etc - especially christian and scientific ones. Just yesterday I managed to 'snare' a JW scientist - now he's going through the Compiler's articles. Namaste brothers and sisters and keep up the good work There is no knowledge that is not power Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: sanctius@mail.com [mailto:sanctius@mail.com] ##Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 9:05 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Theos-World Doctrine v2001 ## ## ##Eldon B Tucker: ##>At some time, it might be good if the original theosophical ##materials, ##>including a copy of the first edition of THE SECRET DOCTRINE ##and of the ##>original mahatma letters in the British Museum could be digitized by ##>them? ## ##I think it would be good for everyone if the Mahatmas could ##write the original theosophical materials again every hundred ##year. Where are the Mahatmas today? If not on earth, why not? ##What are the Mahatmas doing? If not writing, why not? ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From nos@granite.net.au Sun Jul 01 18:57:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 01:57:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 93245 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 01:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 01:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 01:57:36 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10379 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:28:08 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Capital Punishment Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:30:50 +0930 Message-ID: <000b01c1029a$d24a7a40$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <20010701234531.63567.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" The rest of the world looks down on the US already. It's only the Yank Hubris that doesn't allow them to see what effect they are really having on the world around them. Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Chris StClair [mailto:cstclr@yahoo.com] ##Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 9:16 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment ## ## ##No, the time will not come when the whole world looks ##down on the US on the capital punishment issue. If the ##opinions of other countries were relevant on this ##issue, and they are not, the US would nonetheless be ##in the world majority on this point. Of the ten ##largest countries (by population) in the world, all ##ten have a death penalty. ## ##With respect to Europe you would be well advised not ##to confuse the opinions of European politicians and ##journalists with the opinions of the European ##populace. The last poll I saw on the issue showed a ##large majority of European citizens in favor of the ##death peanlty, despite the positions of their ##governments. ## ##Chris ## ## ##--- ramadoss wrote: ##> World has come a long way on the issue of Capital ##> Punishment. In the ##> European Union, abolishment of capital punishment is ##> a pre condition for ##> any joining nation. Of course in the US, Capital ##> Punishment is still a very ##> popular publish sentiment and President George ##> Bush's legacy is in perhaps ##> the largest number of executions under any political ##> leader. ##> ##> A time will soon come when US will be looked down by ##> the entire world on ##> this issue. ##> ##> ___MKR___ ##> ##> ##> ##> At 07:03 PM 6/27/01 -0400, you wrote: ##> >Whether we have the right to kill anyone is another ##> question. If all and any ##> >progress can only take place on this plane we take ##> away an individual's right ##> >and opportunity to learn. It is a major sin ##> against the individual and all ##> >of nature. ##> > ##> >Myrra Lee ##> ##> ##> ##> ##> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ##> ##> ## ## ##__________________________________________________ ##Do You Yahoo!? ##Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From nos@granite.net.au Sun Jul 01 19:00:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 02:00:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 10216 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 02:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 02:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 02:00:05 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10438 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:30:37 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Capital Punishment Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:33:20 +0930 Message-ID: <000f01c1029b$2b804ea0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <3B3FC8A6.CE0398B6@sprynet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" There is Buddhist doctrine that allows one to kill another if that death saves more innocent lives. Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: Bart Lidofsky [mailto:bartl@sprynet.com] ##Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 10:35 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment ## ## ##Chris StClair wrote: ##> An individual does not have a right to learn. An ##> individual only has a chance to try to learn. If an ##individual loses ##> that chance through her own violent proclivities and disrepect of ##> others, then that individual has herself to blame. ## ## "I learned that murderers die for their crimes, ## Even if we make a mistake sometimes" ## ## - Tom Paxton ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From nos@granite.net.au Sun Jul 01 19:19:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 02:19:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 41841 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 02:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 02:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 02:19:54 -0000 Received: from mail.granite.net.au (IDENT:root@mail.granite.net.au [203.132.126.6]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07762 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:19:28 -0500 Received: from nos (victor56k-57.granite.net.au [203.38.211.122]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11031 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:50:18 +0930 To: Subject: Origin of the Ape Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:53:01 +0930 Message-ID: <001c01c1029d$eb23d680$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All - I recently posted the URL for wisdom world on a new newsgroup aus.science. I started a debate on the topis of the Origin of the Ape. Below is a response I got. Any help in framing a reply would be greatly appreciated. Namaste Nos "PORT" wrote in message news:Ygh%6.8$jn.1545@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > ANTIQUITY OF MAN > > THE ORIGIN OF THE APE > > It is evident, especially after the most fundamental principles of > Darwinism, that an organized being cannot be a descendant of another whose > development is in an inverse order to his own.... Consequently, in > accordance with these principles, Man cannot be considered as the descendant > of any simian type whatever. (de Quatrefages: The Human Species.) > The respective developments of the human and Simian brains are referred to. > "In the ape the temporo-spheroidal convolutions, which form the middle lobe, > make their appearance and are completed before the anterior convolutions > which form the frontal lobe. In man, the frontal convolutions are, on the > contrary, the first to appear, and those of the middle lobe are formed > later." Altered temporal regulation of brain development may be one of the evolutionary changes that makes us human and another primate. Depending on the control systems invovled, it may not take changes to many genes at all...in fact the changes would probably be to operator regions and not nessesarily even the coding regions of the genes themselves. > > Lucae's argument versus the Ape-theory, based on the different flexures of > the bones constituting the axis of the skull in the cases of Man and the > Anthropoids, is fairly discussed by Schmidt. ("Doctrine of Descent and > Darwinism," p. 290). He admits that "the ape as he grows becomes more > bestial; man ... more human," .... The writer evidently is not a little > disquieted at the argument. He assures us that it upsets any possibility of > the present apes having been the progenitors of mankind. But does it not > also negative the bare possibility of the man and anthropoid having had a > common -- though, so far, an absolutely theoretical -- ancestor? (The Secret > Doctrine, 1888, Vol. II, 646.) An ape growing more like and ape as it grows and a human growing more like a human as it grows? Seems like that just an outlandish assertion that can't possibly be true (sarc). Of course one species will look more like itself as it grows. The idea of something being more or less bestial is also foolish and would be on some kind of scale with behaviour of the most human nature being one and the least human at the other with humans being at the human extreme and apes being very close by. > > Such anthropoids form an exception because they were not intended by Nature, > but are the direct product and creation of "senseless" man. ... the > transformation of species most directly connected with that of the human > family, a bastard branch engrafted on their own stock before the final > perfection of the latter. (The Secret Doctrine, I, 185.) Nature has no intent and so things can ONLY be outside its intent. I'm sure it didn't intend humans to exist to mess it up either. > > That man was not the last member in the mammalian family, but the first in > this Round, is something that science will be forced to acknowledge one > day.... Humans aren't the first and they aren't the last either. > > That man can be shown to have lived in the mid-Tertiary period, and in a > geological age when there did not yet exist one single specimen of the now > known species of mammals, is a statement that science cannot deny and which > has now been proven by de Quatrefages. (The Secret Doctrine, II, 155.) The secret doctrine does not sound like a scientific journal to me. Such evidence should surely be in a journal of natural history. Many species of mammals in some form or other massively predate even homonid species which in turn predate humans. Humans are not the last mammalian species to have emerged, but they are very recent. Also, other evidence of ape and human recent common decent was not available at the time. Also, more ape like fossils are found in earlier layers than more human like fossils suggesting the common ancestor was more ape like than human like. What work of fiction is this all from? All these claims you post are unsupported since the fossil record does not show humans before mammals at all, its shows them towards the modern end of mammalian evolution. Also, degeneracy is not supported by evidence by genetics and evolutionary mechanisms either. -- Blade ICQ#27537648 Comparing religion to science is like comparing a molehill to a mountain! Change .con to demoncouk to send mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From compiler@wisdomworld.org Sun Jul 01 21:09:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 04:09:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 61484 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 04:09:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 04:09:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 04:09:45 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010702040944.KUBE18220.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3B4001C6.BFE26140@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:08:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: "THE SCIENTIFIC MIND" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler This article is number 1 of the 166 that are found in the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book, which was especially compiled for newcomers and fairly new students of Theosophy: THE SCIENTIFIC MIND: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/mind.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From sanctius@mail.com Mon Jul 02 02:31:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sanctius@mail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 09:31:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 83842 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 09:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 09:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep02-app.kolumbus.fi) (193.229.0.44) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 09:31:09 -0000 Received: from B ([62.248.130.123]) by fep02-app.kolumbus.fi (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-20001017) with SMTP id <20010702093108.NKUO28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:31:08 +0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Doctrine v2001 Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:32:14 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sanctius_J=E4rvenp=E4=E4_Finland?= Reply-To: sanctius@mail.com References: <000a01c1029a$b209f260$4101a8c0@nos> In-Reply-To: <000a01c1029a$b209f260$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010702093108.NKUO28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-eGroups-From: sanctius@mail.com (Sanctius) From: sanctius@mail.com PORT: >Anyway with the internet our works are out there and >I've spoken to the other Adepts and we would like to >see more dissemination of the materials throughout >newsgroups etc - especially christian and scientific ones. First Adept that solves my little mystery shall receive my smile and $2,500. Others shall receive only my smile. http://www.kolumbus.fi/sanctius/adeptest.html (It takes about 10 seconds for an Adept to find out what reads in the little yellow note and mail the exact words back to me. No big strain... O:-) From nos@granite.net.au Mon Jul 02 03:46:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 10:46:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 22475 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 10:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 10:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 10:45:59 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-47.granite.net.au [203.38.211.112]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22325 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:16:33 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Doctrine v2001 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:19:17 +0930 Message-ID: <003d01c102e4$a5012800$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <20010702093108.NKUO28466.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> Importance: Normal From: "PORT" That's nice. Anyway - you've sort of missed the point ;) Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: sanctius@mail.com [mailto:sanctius@mail.com] ##Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 7:02 PM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Theos-World Re: Doctrine v2001 ## ## ##PORT: ##>Anyway with the internet our works are out there and ##>I've spoken to the other Adepts and we would like to ##>see more dissemination of the materials throughout ##>newsgroups etc - especially christian and scientific ones. ## ##First Adept that solves my little mystery shall receive ##my smile and $2,500. Others shall receive only my smile. ##http://www.kolumbus.fi/sanctius/adeptest.html ## ##(It takes ##about 10 seconds for an Adept to find ##out what reads in the little yellow note and mail ##the exact words back to me. No big strain... O:-) ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jul 02 04:06:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 11:06:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 55087 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:06:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 11:06:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.120) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:06:19 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0016.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.16]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06097 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 04:06:19 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Testing Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 04:02:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <3B3FC81B.D4E77928@withoutwalls.com> From: dalval14@earthlink.net Got it Mark Dal -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kusek [mailto:mark@withoutwalls.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:02 PM To: theos-l@list.vnet.net; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Testing Test Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Jul 02 04:48:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 11:48:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 94331 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 11:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:48:11 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.3e.ddc63b8 (4381) for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e.ddc63b8.2871b975@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:48:05 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 104 From: Drpsionic@aol.com In a message dated 7/1/01 9:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time, nos@granite.net.au writes: << The rest of the world looks down on the US already. It's only the Yank Hubris that doesn't allow them to see what effect they are really having on the world around them. >> And we look down on them from out in space. When you go fishing you don't ask the opinions of the worms. Chuck the Heretic From nos@granite.net.au Mon Jul 02 05:33:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 12:33:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 35744 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 12:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 12:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 12:33:28 -0000 Received: from nos (victor56k-47.granite.net.au [203.38.211.112]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24558 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:03:54 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Capital Punishment Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:06:39 +0930 Message-ID: <003e01c102f3$a49940a0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <3e.ddc63b8.2871b975@aol.com> Importance: Normal From: "PORT" ## ##And we look down on them from out in space. When you go ##fishing you don't ##ask the opinions of the worms. ## ##Chuck the Heretic It's Alive! Nos From ramadoss@infohwy.com Mon Jul 02 06:21:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 13:21:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 11702 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 13:21:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 13:21:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 13:21:38 -0000 Received: from senzar (max1-89.max1.sa.infohwy.com [207.90.224.89]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ryanw-infohwy) with ESMTP id IAA12722; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:30:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@www.infohwy.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:18:40 -0500 To: , theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Capital Punishment - HPB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com Most of us are called on to be on a jury and may well be one where the criminal is prosecuted for death penalty. So one is faced with what can do while one hand doing one's duty to the country and on the other hand doing what one feels in one's conscience. The following article clarifies it. Thanks for Hill Country Theosophist for identifying the quote. ___MKR___ CAPITAL PUNISHMENT [Lucifer, Vol. VI, No. 34, June, 1890, p. 335] Having read with much interest in Theosophical Siftings [No]. III, 1890.91) the article by Dr. Franz Hartmann on "Capital Punishment." I venture to ask your opinion on the subject. I have long been sure that it is both useless and wrong to put murderers to death-, or, convinced by the same reasons which Dr. Hartmann puts so urgently. Moreover, I have often maintained that line two wrongs do not make a right. Matters cannot be mended by killing the man who has taken the life of another. Hence 1 feel that should I be called to serve on a jury in such a trial, I must either declare my views at the outset, which might result in the choice of a "hanging" juryman in my place, or serve with the intention of not convicting the accused of wilful murder, no matter how guilty he might he proved. If that course were only to result in keeping the criminal in custody for the rest of his natural life. my conscience would be clear; but, as it might easily set him again at liberty, I feel in a dilemma. Will you kindly say in your next issue what your opinion is, and help perhaps more than one. PUZZLED STUDENT. We are equally with yourself opposed to capital punishment, so that your difficulty becomes our own. In the first place the "head" of the juryman has only to decide whether or not the accused has committed murder, and this is all the so-called "law" requires of him. Practically, however, since the juryman has, or ought to have, a "heart," the law neglects an important factor in the problem for if it punishes murder with death, the juryman, in deciding for a verdict of guilty, of necessity becomes an accessory in a fresh murder. But the "heart" of the people is beginning to protest against this "eye for an eye" code and is refusing to render evil for evil. Capital punishment is nothing but a relic of Jewish barbarity. So that we are of opinion that this feeling should be fostered by open protest on every occasion, and by a refusal to participate in such half human proceedings. The true physician cures the disease, and does not kill his patient. But we are afraid that the murder doctors are in the majority for the moment, so that we can only protest.-[EDS.] BLAVATSKY: COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. XII pp. 237-8 From eldon@theosophy.com Mon Jul 02 10:22:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 17:22:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 11646 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:22:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 17:22:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:22:08 -0000 Received: from scribe.theosophy.com ([167.167.110.112]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17210 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:21:38 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010702064501.00a44ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:21:57 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy of THEOSOPHY WORLD on Sunday. I'm sending a copy of this notice in case you did not get your copy. Some email services block messages with attachments. Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services like yahoogroups when getting overloaded. If you did not get your issue, you can get it online (or write and I can email you another copy.) -- Eldon Tucker ---- attached notice ---- The July 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 61st issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "Elements and Gods," by B.P. Wadia "The Theosophy of Jesus," Part I, by John Gayner Banks "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby "Theosophy, The Orient, and Rudyard Kipling," by Madeline Savage "Works and Days," by George William Russell "2001 Open Letter," by the United Lodge of Theosophists "Initiation," Part I, by Osvald Siren "The Long Lost Science of True Magic," by Margherita Siren "Is There a Spiritual Science," Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The July 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is also out. The current issue contains: Capital Punishment -- Reflections On The Needle Man Capital Punishment by Chaplain Keith Theosophy and Capital Punishment Secret Doctrine Question and Answer Section An Introduction to Patanjali The monthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country ---- The 9th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated July 17, 2001, will soon be out. (It usually goes out at the beginning of the month, but is delayed a few days this time.) The previous issue, dated June 17, contains: To H.P.B. An Interview on Non-Violence HPB Commentary on Tolstoy The American Transcendentalists The Seed and The Tree Tacking into the Wind Cycles and Their Cause The Coffee Klatch Dnyaneshvari -- VII The Global Village The Big Blue Umbrella [First Fundamental] Point Out the Way -- VII Homeopathy Revisited [Bugbears of Science] Reductionism in Science The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is available in Microsoft Word or pdf formats. To request a sample issue, or get a free subscription, write: mailto:ultinla@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------- SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY WORLD magazine: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk ---- * mahat@yahoogroups.com To present theosophical materials that go beyond the printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the availability of such. The most recent addition is a talk on the Winter Solstice given by Boris de Zirkoff. (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and played on one's home computer.) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat ---- * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com In the Dutch language: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep ---- * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study ---- * theos-l@list.vnet.net A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l ---- * bn-basic@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) introductory study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-study@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) general study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-sd@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: http://www.blavatsky.net From alwilli@iafrica.com Mon Jul 02 10:34:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: alwilli@iafrica.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 2 Jul 2001 17:34:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 71551 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:33:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jul 2001 17:33:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.iafrica.com) (196.2.51.5) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:33:18 -0000 Received: from pel-dial-196-7-205-18.mweb.co.za ([196.7.205.18]) by smtp06.iafrica.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GFU00D11WP6E6@smtp06.iafrica.com> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:31:57 +0200 (SAT) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:39:40 +0200 Subject: Re[2]: Theos-World Capital Punishment In-reply-to: <20010701235734.28476.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> To: Chris StClair and others Reply-to: alwilli Message-id: <659076674.20010702193940@iafrica.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Personal Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <20010701235734.28476.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) From: alwilli Hello fellow seekers I have neglected this forum for some time due to insistence of work, but must make time for this topic. The thread on capital punishment, judicial murder, just deserts, eye for an eye - call it what you want - is very interesting to me. Apparently capital punishment, in specific instances, is acceptable even to the Great Souls. For example it is often stated that the result for revealing proscribed knowledge by those initiated is "instant death" or equivalent. Indeed in the Mahatma letters it can be read that an explanation for HPB's behavior is given that one of that being's subtle bodies was retained in what we might call protective custody to ensure compliance with the oath of secrecy. I recall reading an article by HPB wherein she wrote, among other things, that capital punishment inflicted upon the living the earth-bound subtle bodies of persons which, though extinction of them as entities was assured over a long time, could and most likely would result in their negatively influencing many other, even innocent, beings. More importantly, the act of intervening to foreshorten another earthly life interferes with that soul's karma and binds one to that karma. These are entirely practical matters, from a Theosophical view, and don't even touch on the broader ethical considerations, but upon which Theosophy is also quite clear. Theosophy everywhere emphasises the principles of non-violence or, more explicitly, no-harm. To follow the path with diligence, one should STRIVE to not harm any other creature - even if one's own life, or those of one's loved ones are endangered. This is surely an onerous requirement, for who could stand by while friend or family, wife or child is being subjected to the depravations of murderers, corrupters, rapists etc? It appears Theosophy exoterically upholds this principle, yet at the same time it imposes death for initiates who expose prohibited secrets. This is dangerous ground. But us exoteric seekers know too little to pass judgment. The unravelling of this conundrum might be possible only by someone who has been initiated. Perhaps it is as simple as this: what we consent to beforehand is a being-obligation we must uphold above humankind's law, even if it means earthly death. The difference is that no criminal, murder, rapist consents to earthly annihilation in the event they are caught in their crime. In that case we who would extinguish their Maya-driven lives are wrong. But if one who would become a Great Soul agrees that, should they transgress the absolute rules of initiateship - when they have knowledge that might be dangerous in ignorant hands, that death is the agreed result, then all natural laws are still strictly observed. There is a clear line between conscious, self-aware, agreement to the rules - whether of an esoteric school or society - and breach of those rules by a being who has no capacity to consciously agree and uphold any pledge, no matter how much lip-service they may pay. By the same token, even if someone had agreed that earthly death should be the result of breaching rules of faith and secrecy, their teachers would not impart anything to them unless they thought them "conscious" to the extent that they understood what that pledge entailed. Of course this is very difficult to swallow. Anyone who has been mugged or whose loved one has been attacked in any way knows the redblooded anger it evokes. The "righteous" urge to take part in "just retribution" etc. But this is all Maya, attachment, love of matter. The road up is full of prickly issues, raging controversies, crises of conscience. And I myself have not been put to the ultimate test and do no know how I shall behave at that point. However I do know that the way I interpret what I read in my quest for something above a life I know to be false, despite all its fancies, is summed up by an hypothetical exercise put to me during a philosophy ethics course some 20 years ago: if you had the choice of strangling a babe in her cradle and saving humankind, or holding to your ethics, sparing the babe and condemning humankind to extinction, which would you do? The answer is simple: If mankind is so awful that its combined karma demands that result - and you are of humankind - then you have no choice but to repay that collective karma. In no way can you harm that babe even if you condemn the rest of humankind. (If special cases override this view I do not know them) But it all raises a new debate, already underway among the capital punishment/life imprisonment crowd. Is it more "humane" or inhumane to execute an offender or to subject them to the misery and torture of long-term incarceration? Theosophy, the little Ive been exposed to, appears not to hold out any answers to this one - it must be one of the difficult lessons humanity must learn itself. Surely mercy must somewhere here come into play. And indeed it does. Mercy is a transcendent quality. But what is mercy? I would say it is an aspect of forgiveness. Forgiveness is a prerequisite of mercy. The one cannot exist without the other. That may be why mercy is hard to find in actual life - thank "God" many of us are still merciful in the case of the small breaches of rule committed by children. But one should extend the same mercy to all humans, even and especially to oneself. But present Western society finds it easier or more socially acceptable, or should we say politically correct, to hold retribution above mercy. Possibly, if we understood our circumstances, we could distinguish between ordinary folk driven to crime and those truly "evil" whose karmic destiny is to be incacerated in conditions close to the typical view of hell. It has been explained as " the punishment should fit the crime". However as serious crime increases, the view is that all criminals should be stamped out, even though some may have stolen only an apple from a stall to feed their children. Clearly perspective has been lost for we all, all of society, must be as guilty of stealing that apple as the hapless parent was found to be. For it is an "evil" thing that we should allow any fellow to reach the state where he/she must steal to feed their loved ones. It is all our crime and I would think it will be marked against us, whether we have political influence or not. Whatever your view, you must always be attracted back to the knowledge that all on Earth is Maya. To become attached, to be passionate about it in any way, is to be lost in it. We must acknowledge and and do what is within our limits to change or relieve the awful life most of humanity lives, but we must not wallow in it, or hold on to it, or claim it as our saving grace. For then we fall back into the seething cauldron of Maya and are no use to anyone. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. As you do, so shall it be done unto you. As you think of others, so shall it be thought of you. As you are so shall it be... Therefore should we all strive to rise above and help anyone to rise above the vicissitudes of life. > No, it isn't becoming prevalent in today's society. It > is becoming prevalent in today's journalism, which is > a very different thing. And if you ever needed an > argument in favor of the death penalty, the fact that > a majority of American journalists oppose it, is a > very strong argument in favor of the death penalty. > I assume you meant "humane" execution. And yes, there > are humane executions. Most executions by lethal > injection are far more humane than the misery and pain > that come with accidental death, death by cancer or > death at the hands of a psychopath. > As to the violence to the inner person, prove it. I > would rather pass my last moment with a painless > injection than dying in the mangled hulk of a burning > auto, dying wracked in pain from cancer as my body > eats itself or dying after being raped repeatedly and > stabbed repeatedly. > Those who viciously murder other human beings are > getting far better than they deserve when they die by > lethal injection. > Chris > --- toy77@aol.com wrote: >> This is Myrra again. We did spend a meeting >> discussing capital punishment >> and all its ramifications . The feeling against it >> which is becoming >> prevalent in today's society is a sign that the >> teachings have worked their >> way into people's hearts - if not their conscious >> brains. Karma can take a >> long, long time to work itself out. The fact that >> so many see the injustice >> of it, without understanding what goes on on other >> planes is a great step >> forward. There is no such thing as a peaceful and >> human execution. The >> violence to the inner person is not perceptible to >> those who watch - only to >> those who know. >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Best regards, Alan mailto:alwilli@iafrica.com From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 02 19:55:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 02:55:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 75873 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 02:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 02:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 02:55:03 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.45.126]) by escape.com ; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:51:51 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B4133D1.FCC439F1@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:54:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Computer Security References: <000901c1029a$3eefb300$4101a8c0@nos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky PORT wrote: > (who still believes in an international Zionist conspiracy) If you can find out more about it, please tell me. I could really use my share. Bart Lidofsky From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 02 19:57:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 02:57:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 55296 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 02:56:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 02:56:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 02:56:59 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.45.126]) by escape.com ; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:53:48 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B413436.B977DEE8@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:55:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment References: <000f01c1029b$2b804ea0$4101a8c0@nos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky PORT wrote: > There is Buddhist doctrine that allows one to kill another if that death > saves more innocent lives. Please explain to me how executing an innocent person for a crime which the person did not commit saves more innocent lives? Bart Lidofsky From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 02 20:10:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 03:10:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 2446 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 03:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 03:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 03:09:19 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.45.126]) by escape.com ; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:06:09 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B41372C.9F864ED9@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:08:28 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment - HPB References: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky ramadoss@infohwy.com quoted: > if it punishes murder with death, the juryman, > in deciding for a verdict of guilty, of necessity > becomes an accessory in a fresh murder. But > the "heart" of the people is beginning to > protest against this "eye for an eye" code and > is refusing to render evil for evil. Capital > punishment is nothing but a relic of Jewish > barbarity. Which shows, on the part of the writer, a major ignorance of Jewish theology. In Judaism, the Talmud (which, traditionally, was given at the same time as the so-called "Old Testament") is just as important, and expands greatly on the laws outlined therein. The "eye for an eye" is a law of REPLACEMENT, not revenge, and a call for equal compensation, not equal loss. Bart Lidofsky From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jul 02 20:28:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 03:28:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 31349 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 03:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 03:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 03:28:13 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.45.126]) by escape.com ; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:24:45 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B413B87.25DD9EEE@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:27:03 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Theosophy Study List Subject: Re: Theos-World Capital Punishment - HPB References: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> <3B41372C.9F864ED9@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky Forgot to mention; the interpretation of the "eye for an eye" verse as a call for revenge originated with CHRISTIANS, not Jews (although Hammurabic references predated Judaism; the phraseology was certainly a reaction to the Hammurabic code). Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > ramadoss@infohwy.com quoted: > > if it punishes murder with death, the juryman, > > in deciding for a verdict of guilty, of necessity > > becomes an accessory in a fresh murder. But > > the "heart" of the people is beginning to > > protest against this "eye for an eye" code and > > is refusing to render evil for evil. Capital > > punishment is nothing but a relic of Jewish > > barbarity. > > Which shows, on the part of the writer, a major ignorance of Jewish > theology. In Judaism, the Talmud (which, traditionally, was given at the > same time as the so-called "Old Testament") is just as important, and > expands greatly on the laws outlined therein. The "eye for an eye" is a > law of REPLACEMENT, not revenge, and a call for equal compensation, not > equal loss. > > Bart Lidofsky > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sanctius@mail.com Mon Jul 02 22:15:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sanctius@mail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 05:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 7026 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 05:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 05:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep02-app.kolumbus.fi) (193.229.0.44) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 05:15:31 -0000 Received: from B ([62.248.130.123]) by fep02-app.kolumbus.fi (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-20001017) with SMTP id <20010703051526.FUYM16765.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:15:26 +0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Doctrine v2001 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 05:16:36 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sanctius_J=E4rvenp=E4=E4_Finland?= Reply-To: sanctius@mail.com References: <003d01c102e4$a5012800$4101a8c0@nos> In-Reply-To: <003d01c102e4$a5012800$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010703051526.FUYM16765.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-eGroups-From: sanctius@mail.com (Sanctius) From: sanctius@mail.com PORT: >Anyway - you've sort of missed the point ;) Well, my point is, that perhaps 99% of all adepts are not adepts at all. And if one is not an adept, then one can not write (or interpret) the doctrine as it is. Of course, non-adepts may see the truth, but they see the truth only trought themselves, and that might not always be the truth for every human. But adept is every human, whole mankind. Because I am not an adept, my only and best tool for verifying an adept is the little yellow note quiz. I still might be fooled to believe one is an adept, if one passes my test, but that chance is greatly reduced (by a factor of million or so) than without the test. From sanctius@mail.com Mon Jul 02 22:25:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sanctius@mail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 05:25:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 8579 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 05:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 05:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep01-app.kolumbus.fi) (193.229.0.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 05:25:29 -0000 Received: from B ([62.248.130.123]) by fep01-app.kolumbus.fi (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-20001017) with SMTP id <20010703052528.MBPZ399.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@B> for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:25:28 +0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Capital Punishment Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 05:26:38 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sanctius_J=E4rvenp=E4=E4_Finland?= Reply-To: sanctius@mail.com References: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> <3B41372C.9F864ED9@sprynet.com> In-Reply-To: <3B41372C.9F864ED9@sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010703052528.MBPZ399.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-eGroups-From: sanctius@mail.com (Sanctius) From: sanctius@mail.com Bart: >The "eye for an eye" is a law of REPLACEMENT, not revenge, >and a call for equal compensation, not equal loss. If one blinds a man, he shall not be blinded, but to act as the eyes of the blinded man. Following the blind wherever he goes, and helping him to see with his own eyes. If one breaks a man's hand, he shall not be broken, but to act as the hands of the broken man. If one takes a man's life, he shall not be taken life, but to act as the man who once was alive. To do the things that the man would do if he was alive. (Yes, I support justified slavery! O:-) From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Jul 03 05:22:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 12:22:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 56713 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 12:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 12:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO escape.com) (198.6.71.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 12:22:25 -0000 Received: from sprynet.com ([64.24.46.49]) by escape.com ; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:19:13 -3736531 Message-ID: <3B41B8CE.F0127E6@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:21:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Capital Punishment References: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> <3B41372C.9F864ED9@sprynet.com> <20010703052528.MBPZ399.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@B> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bart Lidofsky sanctius@mail.com wrote: > > Bart: > >The "eye for an eye" is a law of REPLACEMENT, not revenge, > >and a call for equal compensation, not equal loss. > > If one blinds a man, he shall not be blinded, but to act as the eyes > of the blinded man. Following the blind wherever he goes, and helping > him to see with his own eyes. If one breaks a man's hand, he shall not > be broken, but to act as the hands of the broken man. If one takes a > man's life, he shall not be taken life, but to act as the man who once > was alive. To do the things that the man would do if he was alive. > (Yes, I support justified slavery! O:-) Or, more precisely, monetary compensation, to allow someone to hire help, make up for lost income, or whatever. Bart Lidofsky From transitionplace@lake.org Tue Jul 03 05:46:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: transitionplace@lake.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 23486 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.pacific.net) (63.162.241.4) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0000 Received: from cmc3038183a (cmc3038183-a.clrlk1.ca.home.com [65.12.20.163]) by mail.pacific.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f63CdLW13564 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001301c103c1$3f521540$a3140c41@clrlk1.ca.home.com> To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010702064501.00a44ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Subject: Re: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:08:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "George Sanders" We wish to subscribe to the Theosophy World for our study group...please advise rates etc...george..thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eldon B Tucker" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines > (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy > of THEOSOPHY WORLD on Sunday. I'm sending a copy > of this notice in case you did not get your copy. > Some email services block messages with attachments. > Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services > like yahoogroups when getting overloaded. If you did > not get your issue, you can get it online (or write > and I can email you another copy.) > > -- Eldon Tucker > > ---- attached notice ---- > > The July 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. > This is the 61st issue of the online theosophical > monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the > issue and/or subscribe to it. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world > mailto:editor@theosophy.com > > The monthly and its associated mailing list's > archives are also online in html format, through > February 1999. To view these pages, see: > > http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html > > The current issue contains: > > > "Elements and Gods," by B.P. Wadia > "The Theosophy of Jesus," Part I, by John Gayner Banks > "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby > "Theosophy, The Orient, and Rudyard Kipling," by Madeline Savage > "Works and Days," by George William Russell > "2001 Open Letter," by the United Lodge of Theosophists > "Initiation," Part I, by Osvald Siren > "The Long Lost Science of True Magic," by Margherita Siren > "Is There a Spiritual Science," Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff > > > ---- > > The July 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is > also out. The current issue contains: > > > Capital Punishment -- Reflections On > The Needle Man > Capital Punishment by Chaplain Keith > Theosophy and Capital Punishment > Secret Doctrine Question and Answer Section > An Introduction to Patanjali > > > The monthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country > > > ---- > > The 9th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated > July 17, 2001, will soon be out. (It usually goes > out at the beginning of the month, but is delayed > a few days this time.) The previous issue, dated > June 17, contains: > > > To H.P.B. > An Interview on Non-Violence > HPB Commentary on Tolstoy > The American Transcendentalists > The Seed and The Tree > Tacking into the Wind > Cycles and Their Cause > The Coffee Klatch > Dnyaneshvari -- VII > The Global Village > The Big Blue Umbrella [First Fundamental] > Point Out the Way -- VII > Homeopathy Revisited [Bugbears of Science] > Reductionism in Science > > > The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is > available in Microsoft Word or pdf formats. To request > a sample issue, or get a free subscription, write: > > mailto:ultinla@earthlink.net > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS > > > * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY > WORLD magazine: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk > > ---- > > * mahat@yahoogroups.com > > To present theosophical materials that go beyond the > printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the > availability of such. The most recent addition is a > talk on the Winter Solstice given by Boris de Zirkoff. > (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and > played on one's home computer.) > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat > > ---- > > * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com > > In the Dutch language: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep > > ---- > > * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com > > Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study > > ---- > > * theos-l@list.vnet.net > > A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of > theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: > > http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l > > ---- > > * bn-basic@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) introductory study: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > ---- > > * bn-study@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) general study: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > ---- > > * bn-sd@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET > DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jul 03 11:10:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 18:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 35673 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 18:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 18:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 18:09:04 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0610.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.100]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27756 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:09:02 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:04:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001301c103c1$3f521540$a3140c41@clrlk1.ca.home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Eldon I think this is for you Dal =========================== -----Original Message----- From: George Sanders [mailto:transitionplace@lake.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:08 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines We wish to subscribe to the Theosophy World for our study group...please advise rates etc...george..thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eldon B Tucker" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines > (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy > of THEOSOPHY WORLD on Sunday. I'm sending a copy > of this notice in case you did not get your copy. > Some email services block messages with attachments. > Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services > like yahoogroups when getting overloaded. If you did > not get your issue, you can get it online (or write > and I can email you another copy.) > > -- Eldon Tucker > > ---- attached notice ---- > > The July 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. > This is the 61st issue of the online theosophical > monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the > issue and/or subscribe to it. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world > mailto:editor@theosophy.com > > The monthly and its associated mailing list's > archives are also online in html format, through > February 1999. To view these pages, see: > > http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html > > The current issue contains: > > > "Elements and Gods," by B.P. Wadia > "The Theosophy of Jesus," Part I, by John Gayner Banks > "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby > "Theosophy, The Orient, and Rudyard Kipling," by Madeline Savage > "Works and Days," by George William Russell > "2001 Open Letter," by the United Lodge of Theosophists > "Initiation," Part I, by Osvald Siren > "The Long Lost Science of True Magic," by Margherita Siren > "Is There a Spiritual Science," Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff > > > ---- > > The July 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is > also out. The current issue contains: > > > Capital Punishment -- Reflections On > The Needle Man > Capital Punishment by Chaplain Keith > Theosophy and Capital Punishment > Secret Doctrine Question and Answer Section > An Introduction to Patanjali > > > The monthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country > > > ---- > > The 9th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated > July 17, 2001, will soon be out. (It usually goes > out at the beginning of the month, but is delayed > a few days this time.) The previous issue, dated > June 17, contains: > > > To H.P.B. > An Interview on Non-Violence > HPB Commentary on Tolstoy > The American Transcendentalists > The Seed and The Tree > Tacking into the Wind > Cycles and Their Cause > The Coffee Klatch > Dnyaneshvari -- VII > The Global Village > The Big Blue Umbrella [First Fundamental] > Point Out the Way -- VII > Homeopathy Revisited [Bugbears of Science] > Reductionism in Science > > > The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is > available in Microsoft Word or pdf formats. To request > a sample issue, or get a free subscription, write: > > mailto:ultinla@earthlink.net > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS > > > * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY > WORLD magazine: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk > > ---- > > * mahat@yahoogroups.com > > To present theosophical materials that go beyond the > printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the > availability of such. The most recent addition is a > talk on the Winter Solstice given by Boris de Zirkoff. > (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and > played on one's home computer.) > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat > > ---- > > * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com > > In the Dutch language: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep > > ---- > > * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com > > Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study > > ---- > > * theos-l@list.vnet.net > > A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of > theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: > > http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l > > ---- > > * bn-basic@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) introductory study: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > ---- > > * bn-study@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) general study: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > ---- > > * bn-sd@blavatsky.net > > A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET > DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: > > http://www.blavatsky.net > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jul 03 11:10:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 18:10:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 36026 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 18:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 18:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 18:09:12 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0610.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.154.100]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28301; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Capital Punishment Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:04:47 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010703052528.MBPZ399.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Tuesday, July 03, 2001 May I also observe that I found Theosophy teaching : The Law of Karma is universal and, unlike the imitation justice of humans, it considers both the constructive and the destructive influence of motive and choice. In other words it deals with the ethical and moral aspects of Nature ALL THE TIME, and not when a misdemeanor is "found out." It is educative in its work. It deals with immortal Monads all the time. It tries to provide for them an environment which is the exact result of their choices. It knows that one may discipline, torture or kill the body, but the immortal SOUL of Man -- the Real THINKER -- is not destroyed but must return to continue its "path" of progress in a future series of bodies. All human interactions are taken into account, not some of them, as human justice focuses on. The reason for this is the fact of the IMMORTALITY of the human Soul and its many reincarnations. In addition, every being from the life-atom on up is on the ladder of evolution and cannot be denied the right to progress. Human justice often errs because there are hidden or concealed factors which make it imperfect. If perceive the Universe ( or NATURE) as a great adjuster, then every good or evil thought, or deed reaps its consequent effect. It has an Intelligence that exceeds our human limits, and it takes into account the most obscure and concealed causes. Karma causes the re-emergence of the whole Universe. We usually fail to appreciate the grand wholeness of the Earth and the Solar System, which support us and keep us alive. Considered theologically: Omnipresence is UNIVERSAL SPACE without bounds/ Omnipotence is UNIVERSAL LAW and Laws which guide every aspect of life. Our Science investigates the conditions and laws that NATURE has established and which are "in place" long ago. "Discoveries" are merely the unveiling of Nature's established laws designed for the preservation and growth of all beings, weak or strong. All laws are under the IMPERSONAL control of NATURE. Omnipotence is The great CAUSAL POWER which is the eternal background of all evolution and supports every being in its life at its own level. There is no personal preference involved in this. It is not a PERSONAL GOD. [ Note: the priests of every theogony have made of this impersonal CAUSELESS CAUSE a Personal God . This has eventually caused the debasement and downfall of every religion.] As this CAUSELESS CAUSE is non-manifest, it cannot be inquired into or isolated as to its qualities. It is the combined, cooperative, inter-active CAUSE of all life. Manifestation is the process whereby the least LIFE (an IMMORTAL MONAD) has provided for it every opportunity to rise through the stair-way of experience -----Original Message----- From: sanctius@mail.com [mailto:sanctius@mail.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Re: Capital Punishment Bart: >The "eye for an eye" is a law of REPLACEMENT, not revenge, >and a call for equal compensation, not equal loss. If one blinds a man, he shall not be blinded, but to act as the eyes of the blinded man. Following the blind wherever he goes, and helping him to see with his own eyes. If one breaks a man's hand, he shall not be broken, but to act as the hands of the broken man. If one takes a man's life, he shall not be taken life, but to act as the man who once was alive. To do the things that the man would do if he was alive. (Yes, I support justified slavery! O:-) Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sanctius@mail.com Tue Jul 03 12:23:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sanctius@mail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 19:23:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 92008 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 19:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fep02-app.kolumbus.fi) (193.229.0.44) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:23:24 -0000 Received: from B ([62.248.130.123]) by fep02-app.kolumbus.fi (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-20001017) with SMTP id <20010703192323.NRJW16765.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:23:23 +0300 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Capital Punishment Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:24:37 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sanctius_J=E4rvenp=E4=E4_Finland?= Reply-To: sanctius@mail.com References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010703192323.NRJW16765.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-eGroups-From: sanctius@mail.com (Sanctius) From: sanctius@mail.com Dallas: >The Law of Karma is universal and, unlike the imitation justice >of humans, it considers both the constructive and the destructive >influence of motive and choice. I agree, but I still wonder why do "the law", "the enforcers" or "the judges" exist? Surely they can have no clue what's REALLY going on "behind the stage"? From DNisk98114@aol.com Tue Jul 03 13:48:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: DNisk98114@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 20:48:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17406 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 20:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 20:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r07.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.103) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 20:48:06 -0000 Received: from DNisk98114@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.a5.17ebf73a (4325) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:48:00 EDT Subject: The breath... To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 From: DNisk98114@aol.com Subj: A large breath..... Date: 7/3/01 3:11:59 PM !!!First Boot!!! From: DNisk98114 To: theos-world@yahoogroups.com This caught our eye and once the humour of it vanished , one was struck by the fact of it being a great example of breath (or pneuma) and how the soul can "reverberate" with the harmonies of the upper spheres. Which may or may not differentiate it from some politicians. But the breath of life is everywhere , so it would seem. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& *** English Vicar claims sermon record WHALLEY, England (AP) - Rev. Chris Sterry had a lot to tell his parishioners about the Old Testament. So much, in fact, that more than 28 hours after he started preaching at an English church, he was still in the pulpit delivering a sermon he claims set a record for an unscripted speech. Sterry began his sermon at 6:30 a.m. Friday, lecturing on the Book of Genesis in a bid to get his name into another well-known book - the Guinness Book of Records. "This will be a proper sermon," Sterry, 46, said before he began preaching. "As a former lecturer on the Old Testament I am looking forward to unlimited opportunity to talk about one of my great enthusiasms." When he reached the existing record of 27 hours and 30 minutes Saturday morning, the Anglican vicar was lecturing to about 100 parishioners about the biblical tale of Daniel in the lion's den. He had planned to preach for 36 hours, but called off his marathon after 28 hours and 45 minutes. From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jul 03 14:46:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 21:46:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 65522 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 21:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 21:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 21:46:29 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0317.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.189.62]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05083; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:46:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010702064501.00a44ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Thanks Eldon, My copy came in safely. Best wishes, and many thanks, Dal ============================== -----Original Message----- From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:22 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy of THEOSOPHY WORLD on Sunday. I'm sending a copy of this notice in case you did not get your copy. Some email services block messages with attachments. Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services like yahoogroups when getting overloaded. If you did not get your issue, you can get it online (or write and I can email you another copy.) -- Eldon Tucker ---- attached notice ---- The July 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 61st issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "Elements and Gods," by B.P. Wadia "The Theosophy of Jesus," Part I, by John Gayner Banks "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby "Theosophy, The Orient, and Rudyard Kipling," by Madeline Savage "Works and Days," by George William Russell "2001 Open Letter," by the United Lodge of Theosophists "Initiation," Part I, by Osvald Siren "The Long Lost Science of True Magic," by Margherita Siren "Is There a Spiritual Science," Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The July 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is also out. The current issue contains: Capital Punishment -- Reflections On The Needle Man Capital Punishment by Chaplain Keith Theosophy and Capital Punishment Secret Doctrine Question and Answer Section An Introduction to Patanjali CUT From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jul 03 14:46:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 3 Jul 2001 21:46:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 51742 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 21:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2001 21:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 21:46:30 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0317.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.189.62]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05281 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:46:28 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Capital Punishment - HPB Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010702081220.00a54820@www.infohwy.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Dear Doss: In such cases tell them that you will never vote for the death penalty if that is involved in a verdict that is desired from a jury on which you are asked to sit. If necessary I would tell them that they cannot destroy the immortal SOUL and at best they can take revenge on the misguided body, which was out of control for a while. As a theosophist who is truly convinced in the IMMORTALITY of the SOUL, and in KARMA, as well as the process of REINCARNATION you refuse to take responsibility for a vote that might condemn a person to death. This ought to be done BEFORE you are empanelled. There are questions lawyers ask BEFORE empanelling a jury. Address yourself to the JUDGE. The Judge decides on the ultimate fairness of the conduct of his court, not the lawyers although they seem to take great latitudes in forcing those who testify to say the truth and reveal secrets. Always address the JUDGE. He is ultimately responsible. Most Judges do not want mistrials. Best wishes, Dallas -----Original Message----- From: ramadoss@infohwy.com [mailto:ramadoss@infohwy.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:19 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Theos-World Capital Punishment - HPB Most of us are called on to be on a jury and may well be one where the criminal is prosecuted for death penalty. So one is faced with what can do while one hand doing one's duty to the country and on the other hand doing what one feels in one's conscience. The following article clarifies it. Thanks for Hill Country Theosophist for identifying the quote. ___MKR___ CAPITAL PUNISHMENT [Lucifer, Vol. VI, No. 34, June, 1890, p. 335] Having read with much interest in Theosophical Siftings [No]. III, 1890.91) the article by Dr. Franz Hartmann on "Capital Punishment." I venture to ask your opinion on the subject. I have long been sure that it is both useless and wrong to put murderers to death-, or, convinced by the same reasons which Dr. Hartmann puts so urgently. Moreover, I have often maintained that line two wrongs do not make a right. Matters cannot be mended by killing the man who has taken the life of another. Hence 1 feel that should I be called to serve on a jury in such a trial, I must either declare my views at the outset, which might result in the choice of a "hanging" juryman in my place, or serve with the intention of not convicting the accused of wilful murder, no matter how guilty he might he proved. If that course were only to result in keeping the criminal in custody for the rest of his natural life. my conscience would be clear; but, as it might easily set him again at liberty, I feel in a dilemma. Will you kindly say in your next issue what your opinion is, and help perhaps more than one. PUZZLED STUDENT. We are equally with yourself opposed to capital punishment, so that your difficulty becomes our own. In the first place the "head" of the juryman has only to decide whether or not the accused has committed murder, and this is all the so-called "law" requires of him. Practically, however, since the juryman has, or ought to have, a "heart," the law neglects an important factor in the problem for if it punishes murder with death, the juryman, in deciding for a verdict of guilty, of necessity becomes an accessory in a fresh murder. But the "heart" of the people is beginning to protest against this "eye for an eye" code and is refusing to render evil for evil. Capital punishment is nothing but a relic of Jewish barbarity. So that we are of opinion that this feeling should be fostered by open protest on every occasion, and by a refusal to participate in such half human proceedings. The true physician cures the disease, and does not kill his patient. But we are afraid that the murder doctors are in the majority for the moment, so that we can only protest.-[EDS.] BLAVATSKY: COLLECTED WRITINGS, Vol. XII pp. 237-8 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From nos@granite.net.au Tue Jul 03 17:53:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nos@granite.net.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Jul 2001 00:53:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 68728 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 00:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2001 00:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.granite.net.au) (203.132.126.6) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 00:53:10 -0000 Received: from nos ([203.38.211.95]) by mail.granite.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24823 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:23:54 +0930 To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Capital Punishment Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:26:24 +0930 Message-ID: <003501c10424$26ceb7e0$4101a8c0@nos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2605 In-Reply-To: <20010703192323.NRJW16765.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@B> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal From: "PORT" Hi Guys, I read something in it else that seems a bit different - I thought we each we're our own law givers - not an external authority. 'Each man is his own absolute law-giver, the dispenser of glory or gloom to himself; the decreer of his life, his rewards, his punishment' - The Idyll of the White Lotus. Am I getting it all arse-about? Cheers Nos ##-----Original Message----- ##From: sanctius@mail.com [mailto:sanctius@mail.com] ##Sent: Wednesday, 4 July 2001 4:55 AM ##To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ##Subject: Theos-World Re: Capital Punishment ## ## ##Dallas: ##>The Law of Karma is universal and, unlike the imitation justice of ##>humans, it considers both the constructive and the destructive ##>influence of motive and choice. ## ##I agree, but I still wonder why do "the law", "the enforcers" ##or "the judges" exist? Surely they can have no clue what's ##REALLY going on "behind the stage"? ## ## ## ## ##Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to ##http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ## ## From fdavis@texas.net Tue Jul 03 18:12:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: fdavis@texas.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 4 Jul 2001 01:12:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 36728 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 01:12:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2001 01:12:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw1.texas.net) (206.127.30.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 01:12:06 -0000 Received: from fdavis (asnet01-217.houston.texas.net [209.99.87.217]) by mw1.texas.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f641C3U04325 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:12:03 -0500 (CDT) To: Subject: RE: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:07:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010702064501.00a44ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Fred Davis" Please send me another copy ... thank you -----Original Message----- From: Eldon B Tucker [mailto:eldon@theosophy.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 12:22 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World The July 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, and various lists and magazines (As a subscriber, you should have received a copy of THEOSOPHY WORLD on Sunday. I'm sending a copy of this notice in case you did not get your copy. Some email services block messages with attachments. Some will reject messages from bulk mailing services like yahoogroups when getting overloaded. If you did not get your issue, you can get it online (or write and I can email you another copy.) -- Eldon Tucker ---- attached notice ---- The July 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 61st issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on yahoogroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "Elements and Gods," by B.P. Wadia "The Theosophy of Jesus," Part I, by John Gayner Banks "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby "Theosophy, The Orient, and Rudyard Kipling," by Madeline Savage "Works and Days," by George William Russell "2001 Open Letter," by the United Lodge of Theosophists "Initiation," Part I, by Osvald Siren "The Long Lost Science of True Magic," by Margherita Siren "Is There a Spiritual Science," Part I, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The July 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is also out. The current issue contains: Capital Punishment -- Reflections On The Needle Man Capital Punishment by Chaplain Keith Theosophy and Capital Punishment Secret Doctrine Question and Answer Section An Introduction to Patanjali The monthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country ---- The 9th issue of THE AQUARIAN THEOSOPHIST, dated July 17, 2001, will soon be out. (It usually goes out at the beginning of the month, but is delayed a few days this time.) The previous issue, dated June 17, contains: To H.P.B. An Interview on Non-Violence HPB Commentary on Tolstoy The American Transcendentalists The Seed and The Tree Tacking into the Wind Cycles and Their Cause The Coffee Klatch Dnyaneshvari -- VII The Global Village The Big Blue Umbrella [First Fundamental] Point Out the Way -- VII Homeopathy Revisited [Bugbears of Science] Reductionism in Science The monthly is sent out as an email attachment. It is available in Microsoft Wo