From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jun 01 05:06:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 12:06:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 35721 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 12:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 12:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 12:06:37 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0019.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.19]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA05686; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 05:06:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Re: Seeking to extend our Consciousness to other planes and remeber that. Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:02:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Friday, June 01, 2001 Dear Friend: RE: How can the student learn to maintain awareness of the three states of consciousness? I would say by detachment. By observation and the closest of attention to thoughts and ideas that arise seemingly spontaneously in one's mind. By actively studying our thoughts when we wake up we may be able to eventually discern the difference between the more or less distorted dreams (?) generated by our desires and personal self, and, those what come from the Higher EGO -- ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS -- the HIGHER SELF which being spiritual is steady, clear and impersonally directed to duty and responsibility -- for there is where WISDOM resides. The embodied mind we so value, has to make itself the SPIRITUALLY EMBODIED MIND. At present is largely the Kamic-enshrouded-mind. It is the difference between the BUDDHI-MANAS and the kama-manas. This emphasizes that the Mind is a "tool." We direct it. We select the object of its investigation. We hold it to that specific search (with more or less success.) That is why Patanjali emphasizes ONE POINTEDNESS (Ekagrata) and DETACHMENT (from desires and passions). He further points to the WISDOM to be secured by the CONTROL OF THE MIND; and, as Krishna would say (in the B. Gita) "placing it upon the Spirit." It demands that WE turn our mind to CAUSES rather than a continued enmeshing of one's self in the surface turmoil of passion-ruled "effects." A careful (and detached) following of the "path" which our desires may select, leads us to see that if we follow them we only wander, and no valuable (universal and imperishable) results seem to ensue or even be envisaged. Our whole nature as to be altered from personal selfishness (in all or anything), to a sense of universality. If we can gradually achieve this, we may be able to offer unlimited (as we advance ourselves and remain impersonal) assistance to enquirers and seekers after TRUTH. If we develop some perception of this WISDOM, then we have to further make sure that it is never tainted with any of our personal biases. First we have to identify, and then, get rid of such "biases." In the VOICE OF THE SILENCE (p. 13-14) we find it declared "The Self of Matter and the SELF of Spirit can never meet. One of the twain must disappear; there is no place for both. Ere thy Soul's mind can understand, the bud of personality must be crushed out; the worm of sense destroyed past resurrection. Thou canst not travel on the Path before thou hast become that Path thyself." We have to assist others by making ourselves IMPERSONAL and TRUE exponents of clear thought. Then we will be able to move through a pure and clear personality. This attention to the CAUSES, also demands from us total impartiality and impersonality. Unless our brain-minds are disciplined and steady, we cannot penetrate past and through the confusion of our desire-generated "dreams" to the "steady light" of the Spiritual-Soul. That is not outside of us, but within. No exterior practices of "yoga" or "thought control" will ever allow us to reach to the SPIRIT/SOUL (ATMA-BUDDHI) within. The LOWER MANAS has to be transformed and made one with the HIGHER MANAS ( Buddhi-Manas ) -- and that is the self-discipline that Theosophy envisages and teaches. Patanjali's Yoga-sutras are most useful, but we have first to learn how to distinguish (in such translations as we secure) the difference between the EMBODIED SOUL (Lower manas -- Kama-manas), and the FREE SPIRITUAL SOUL (the HIGHER MIND.) I many cases the translators leave it to the reader/student to learn how to make that important distinction. So there are a number of preliminary steps that we have to take before we can achieve the "power" of perception of the 3 States of Consciousness. In a way it is fortunate that such a "development" occurs continually and imperceptibly as we advance along the "Path." Read in FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY the 1st article THE ELIXIR OF LIFE as it contains some most valuable hints in this regard. H.P.B. wrote another illuminating article: PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION ( H.P.B. Articles II, p. 7..., LUCIFER, Oct/Nov. 1890) another is H.P.B.'s TRANSMIGRATION OF LIFE ATOMS (H.P.B. Articles II 249; FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY pp. 338 ; BCW - Vol. 5, p. 110; THEOSOPHIST, July/Aug 1883 ) This is difficult in our times, but has to be pursued. We all have an inkling of this through the Intuition and the Voice of Conscience. We know that the process is to transform any selfish (hence vicious) motive into universal and impersonal decisions (into virtuous living, based on desires made pure because of their impersonality and universality. This may sound harsh and unnecessarily repetitious, (even preachy -- but, what 'priest' has ever told of a method and given reasons for the practice of morality, that his parishioners can mentally comprehend and practice ?). It is only when we have demonstrated to ourselves the value of this "path" that we will be able to make 'true progress.' All progress is self-determined, including the power to perceive on more than one plane, without succumbing to the confusion and allurements of such a plane. The problem (as I see it) is mainly with our psychic nature. If we are able to control that and become MENTAL beings (I do not mean coldly intellectual at all, as universality includes compassion) then we will have secure the impartiality and the one-pointedness needed. The Head and the Heart have to be melded. They are no opposed, unless the HEART is screened and the false "Heart -- desire" is made the motivator and the curiosity seeker in us. As I see it, The reason Theosophy is in the world is : 1. To break us of the habit of following any one advocate or teacher. Try and follow all. Give your own best effort to garner what they offer. Remember that at our own HEART of HEARTS we are one with the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT, the BUDDHA -- which is potential in each of us. The VOICE OF THE SILENCE does provide a basis for the independent consideration of the application of the practical ethics in daily life which a devoted student to the Eternal Wisdom can derive from the metaphysics and doctrinal expositions. 2 Unless I am much mistaken, the fundamental concept is that we are at common base, brothers in Spirit and experience -- as MONADS directly emanated from the ONE ABSOLUTE. We are all evolving together. I would say, this gives us a UNITY at the base of our natures, that is only shattered and confused when, instead of using that metaphysical fact, we think and then start from the limited knowledge we have acquired in this incarnation, which may start from various premises, and which may still contain (unknown to us) elements of blind faith. We ought to take this into account when we think of uniting our perceptions on other "planes of consciousness" and transferring them to our waking "brain-mind" of "today." Nothing can be done unless we are "fully conscious here and now" and "fully united" to the SPIRITUAL, or the MONADIC BASE of our inner and Higher Selves. [TRANSACTIONS of the BLAVATSKY LODGE: explains this, see between pp 66 to 78; BCW Vol. 10, pp 252-262 ] This is a process of self-initiation and it is rarely to be accomplished in a single life, but probably takes a number of lives to achieve, and, to become, in our personal natures, worthy of such a "gift." Actually with the help of spiritual Wisdom we do this for ourself and modify and clarify our lower personal self, and the physical nature, in which it works outwardly at present. For example: If one desires to use a crystal, just drawn from the rock, and make of it a lens, we need to shape and polish it into a concordance so that every ray of light passing through it is bent to a common pre-selected focus. Added to this we may find that we are all beset by a kind of "hope." The hope is that someone has the secret and all we need to have is the final formula. That creates a "problem." We develop a sense of urgency, and we have as a hope that we may encompass this in this personality, that someone else found a short-cut we can use. If we could adopt that, then it might save us the tedious amount of time it takes to verify a proposition's accuracy. If we are beset with impatience, and with memories of our earlier education, which may have pre-disposed us to certain "beliefs" (to accept or to reject) which still remain unverified. At least I can see this in myself, and, since I have to handle it, I suppose others have the same problem. Being impersonal and also universal seems to shave off this kind of froth. H.P.B. in ISIS UNVEILED spoke of pre-vedic BODHISM / Buddhism and explains this means WISDOMISM and no religion. The Buddha did not come to establish a religion, but his follower later on set one up based on brotherhood and compassion. Anyone can misuse a designation. So we have to be most careful in using ancient texts to make sure the reader understands the dangers and problems of literalism, the difference is very marked between the "eye doctrine" (and "Head-Learning)" and the HEART DOCTRINE that comes universally from within (if the paradox be permitted). And of translators or commentators, who cannot help but interject their brain-views in whatever they offer. Take me, who likes to use quotes (and give the pages where they can be found, the selection I make is a kind of a "filter." ) It is the same thing for the Lower Manas -- being united to desires, it usually presents a distorted view of spiritual WISDOM --- till such time as the "desires and passions" are subdued, eradicated and the "crystal" made pellucid. Then Kama-Manas melds with Buddhi-Manas and there are no further obscurities. Language assists but is also a barrier. Thinking of the use of the word Buddhism. By thinking of the "proponents of Buddhism," I would mean the esoteric kind, of which THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE is a sample. They have no arguments with THEOSOPHY that I know of. The VOICE shows how practical BUDDHISM and PRACTICAL THEOSOPHY would agree. As I see it the only arguments that remain to be considered are based on our Lower Manasic (present personal brain-mind apparatus) grasp of language and the possible / probable meanings that words and phrases convey (after being translated -- by Who? With what Motives ?) And that gives vast room for confusion and pro / contra arguments. But if we are seeking for the ONE TRUTH of things, then our many paths converge and differences are all reconcilable. But each has to be given the freedom to do that for themselves. No agreement on "forms" ever stands very long. [ This is the problem with the T.S. as an organization, and the T.S. as a vehicle for the ever-living ethical practice of BROTHERHOOD. (see BCW Vol. 7, pp. 145 -149) ] Best wishes, Dallas =========================================== -----Original Message----- From: B----- Mc D----- Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:56 PM Subject: Re: (Basic-BN) M--------- message Dear -------- I would like to re-ask one of the questions you asked: >1. How can the student learn to maintain awareness of the three >states of consciousness? I guess this topic is one I have had difficulty with. It seems a bit arbitrary to say that there are only three states of consciousness, and that these have to do with Waking Consciousness and then two sleeping consciousnesses. I experience a number of levels of Waking Consciousness, especially when meditation and Samadhi are included. And I must admit that I have difficulty remembering dreams, although I experience "instruction" in meditation, which sounds a bit like the "Dreamless Sleep" state. So I am wondering what the real significance of these three states really are, and whether they are actually as important as some of the literature suggests. Patanjali for instance seems to imply more than three in his work, and the "Brothers" write about a number of levels of consciousness and awareness and the intense training which is required to maintain these levels of awareness. Sincerely, B--- McD----- === CUT =========== From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jun 01 05:17:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 12:17:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 42578 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 12:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 12:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.142) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 12:17:09 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601121708.GQHQ4397.femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 05:17:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3B179514.5570456@wisdomworld.org> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:13:57 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-l@list.vnet.net, Theosophie-Dialog@yahoogroups.com Subject: "THE LORDLY MOVER" (about "Faith") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler This article about "Faith", is another most useful and informative collation that is found on the alphabetized "Additional" articles Index page (the last of the links found below). It should prove to be most useful to all new (and fairly new) students of Theosophy: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/TheLordlyMover.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book on the web site: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jun 01 05:59:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 12:59:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 61716 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 12:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 12:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 12:59:01 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0067.cvx5-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.152.67]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10167; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 05:59:04 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: Personal views Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:55:31 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0EA67.D96CEF60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0EA67.D96CEF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday, June 01, 2001 Dear Mark Yes I think I would adopt that “tie-down (below).” What’s wrong with it ? TRUTH has an independence of its own and hence no one “owns” it. Fallibility of Adepts is covered in THE MAHATMA LETTERS. From what They have written I figure that have worked with full AWARENESS a lot longer than most of us have so far. I think we are just beginning to scratch at the surface. THEOSOPHY (after 60 years of research and study -- not as long as infinity ! ) seems most logical and useful to me. The quotes (most retyped, some “cut & paste,” more recently) I have accumulated over years of study, and seemed to me one of the best ways (after classification) to keep them at hand. In correspondence and dialog, the availability of these has proved useful, and the effort to record them (again) helps me to memorize their main thrust and usefulness -- but this is only one of the many ways of study. It is the “Lower Mind” trying to “purify itself,” and also trying to verify the accuracy of Intuitions which occasionally flash across the kind’s horizons. Now since INTERNET lets us speak directly and to so many, the need for accuracy is plainly visible. I think one ought to curb one’s exuberance with careful references, as those will tell in the long run how valuable THEOSOPHY is. We but pass it along. It also ensures others that there is a philosophy and a logic backed by a metaphysics that cannot be assailed -- but unless we know the parameters in our “world,” we cannot do effective work in re-broadcasting. For me it is a refreshing dip every time something comes up which enables a cleansing as well as a kind of rejuvenation. Problem is there are too few hours. On the whole there is ONE TRUTH (the ABSOLUTE), then, there are the three FUNDAMENTALS, (like the eternal MONAD: ATMA-space; BUDDHI - Law; and MANAS - evolution of the innumerable components of the ONE Following that there are the “TWO PATHS” (see VOICE, and the TWO EGOS IN MAN S.D. II 167). [The Monad is said to be dual, but in reality it is threefold in evolution, as there has to be an intermediary (the MANAS-Mind) which sees not only the poles of SPIRIT and MATTER, but also all their vast quantity of interplay. And then, in the VOICE are to be found the 7 and 10 main concepts which focus around Karma-Law, and Reincarnation-purification of the “monads of lesser experience.” (these make up our “sheaths” or “vehicles” -- SD I 157, 200, II 596). Following that is the concept that the eternal Pilgrim is a MONAD that is imperishable, and survives millions of embodiments, of which the latest are in and through the human kingdom. To finalize this sketch of our presence and potentials: The practice of impersonality, unselfishness, ethics (as VIRTUES -- and the important explanations of their cause and reality), and finally, the resolution, the ultimate goal, (which ever recedes as fresh vistas open in an INFINITE and DEATHLESS UNIVERSE -- the PERFECTION which is implicit in the UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD not only of mankind but of ALL BEINGS. The S.D. Teaches HISTORY (S.D. I 267, and elsewhere) -- and the traces of WISDOM IN THE PAST are scattered throughout the S.D. and ISIS UNVEILED -- we need only get to work to find them and see if they are useful. Once convinced that THEOSOPHY is not imaginary or a concoction by H.P.B. of scattered facts assembled, we pass them on, and keep the as clean and pure as we are able to so do. Let others find out their value as e have. Direct experience is personal to the one who experiences. In the S.D. Vol. I pp 272-3 is to be found the method used and the study taken up by the Adepts as a base of reference. Using the S.D. and analogetic writings we can demonstrate this for ourselves. It is impersonal and universal. -- It is suggested in Theosophy that all we learn be cross checked with the study of others -- if our objective is to carry the wisdom embodied there forward for the use of others, then verification is essential. There is safety in having verification in constant on-going practice. If reincarnation is a fact, the work we do of transmission “today” in this life, will confront us sometime, in the near or distant future, when we “return.” I would rather meet the truth than have to wade through endless reams of speculations, religious dogmas, scientific “theories,” … and personal views and stories to get at it. It is a kind of self-defence. But then I am convinced we all reincarnate -- of what use is this vast assemblage of time and work if it gets nowhere ? All good wishes, Dal ======================== -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kusek [mailto:mark@withoutwalls.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:43 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: Re: Personal views Dallas wrote: Our English translations are not necessarily accurate even literally -- so I put in a word of caution. Beware of all translations and of all personal views (and I include my own in this package). Get Out Of Jail Free: You can just discount what anybody ever says, period! No one except an adept can write something which is so clear and exact that there are no personal views and biases. Didn't we already do the "fallibility of adepts" topic months ago? Hence do not follow any one advocate or teacher. Try and follow all. Why dig a deep well when a yard full of holes is so much more trendy? Literalism ties one down to words, and we are not sure how exact they are. At least that has been my experience. Dallas, are you sure you want to go on record with this? If one has a grasp of the METAPHYSICS embodied in the first vol. of the S.D. one has a chance to make them both observational and practical. Direct experience is even better. BTW, do you actually type all those quotes yourself or do you copy and paste? Either way, my hat's off to you. You're quite an adept quote-a-matic. -- M --- You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: dalval14@earthlink.net List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-theos-l-13148L@list.vnet.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0EA67.D96CEF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Friday, June 01, 2001

 

 

Dear= Mark

 

Yes = I think I would adopt that “tie-down (below).”  What’s wrong with it ?

 

TRUT= H has an independence of its own and hence no one “owns” it.

 

Fall= ibility of Adepts is covered in THE MAHATMA LETTERS.  From what They have written I figure that have worked wi= th full AWARENESS a lot longer than most of us have so far.  I think we are just beginning to scratch at the surface.  THEO= SOPHY (after 60 years of research and study -- not as long as infinity !  ) I have accumulated over years of s= tudy, and seemed to me one of the best ways (after classification)  to keep them at hand. In correspon= dence and dialog, the availability of these has proved useful, and the effort to record them (again) helps me to memorize their main thrust and usefulness -= - but this is only one of the many ways of study.  It is the “Lower Mind” trying to “puri= fy itself,” and also trying to verify the accuracy of Intuitions which occasionally flash across= the kind’s horizons.

 

Now = since INTERNET lets us speak directly and to so many, the need for accuracy is plainly visible.  I think one= ought to curb one’s exuberance with careful references, as those will tell = in the long run how valuable THEOSOPHY is.  We but pass it along. It also ensures others that there is a philoso= phy and a logic backed by a metaphysics that cannot be assailed -- but unless w= e know the parameters in our “world,” we cannot do effective work= in re-broadcasting.

 

For = me it is a refreshing dip every time something comes up which enables a cleansing= as well as a kind of rejuvenation.  Problem is there are too few hours.

 

On t= he whole there is ONE TRUTH  (th= e ABSOLUTE), then, there are the three FUNDAMENTALS, (like the eternal MONAD:=   ATMA-space; BUDDHI - Law;  and MANAS -  evolution of the innumerable components of the ONE  <= /p>

 

Foll= owing that there are the “TWO PATHS”  (see VOICE, and the TWO EGOS IN MAN  S.D. II 167).  [The Monad is said to be dual, but in reality it is threefold in evolution, as t= here has to be an intermediary (the MANAS-Mind) which sees not only the poles of SPIRIT and MATTER, but also all their vast quantity of interplay.  <= /p>

 

And = then, in the VOICE are to be found the 7 and 10 main concepts which focus around Kar= ma-Law, and Reincarnation-purification of the “monads of lesser experience.&#= 8221; (these make up our “sheaths” or “vehicles” --  SD I 157, 200,  II 596= ).

 

Foll= owing that is the concept that the eternal Pilgrim is a MONAD that is imperishabl= e, and survives millions of embodiments, of which the latest are in and throug= h the human kingdom.  To finali= ze this sketch of our presence and potentials:  The practice of impersonality, unselfishness, ethics (as VIRTUES -- and the important explanations of their cause and reality), and finally, the resolution, the ultimate goal,  (which ever recedes as fresh vistas open in an INFINITE = and DEATHLESS UNIVERSE --  the PERFECTION which is implicit in the  UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD not only of mankind but of ALL BEINGS. 

 

The = S.D. Teaches HISTORY (S.D. I 267, and elsewhere) --  and the traces of WISDOM IN THE PAST are scattered throug= hout the S.D. and ISIS UNVEILED -- we need only get to work to find them and see= if they are useful.  Once convin= ced that THEOSOPHY is not imaginary or a concoction by H.P.B. of scattered facts assembled, we pass them on, and keep the as clean and pure as we are able t= o so do.  Let others find out thei= r value as e have.

 

Dire= ct experience is personal to the one who experiences.&n= bsp; In the S.D. Vol. I pp 272-3 is to be found the method used and the s= tudy taken up by the Adepts as a base of reference.  Using the S.D. and analogetic writings we can demonstrat= e this for ourselves.

 

It i= s impersonal and universal. -- It is suggested in Theosophy that all we learn= be cross checked with the study of others -- if our objective is to carry the wisdom embodied there forward for the use of others, then verification is essential.  There is safety i= n having verification in constant on-going practice.=

 

If reincarnation is a fact, the work we do of transmission “today”= in this life, will confront us sometime, in the near or distant future, when we “re= turn.”  I would rather meet the truth tha= n have to wade through endless reams of speculations, religious dogmas, scientific= “theories,” … and personal views and stories to get at it.  It is a kind of self-defence.  But then I am convinced we all reincarnate -- of what us= e is this vast assemblage of time and work if it gets nowhere ?

 

All = good wishes,

 

Dal<= o:p>

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= /o:p>

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kusek [mailto:mark@withoutwalls.com]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 = 12:43 AM
To: Theosophy Study List
Subject: Re: Personal views<= /span>

 =

= Dallas wrote:

Get Out Of Jail Free:<= /u>

You can just discount what anybody ever says, period! <= /font>

= Didn't we already do the "falli= bility of adepts" topic months ago?

= Why dig a deep well when a yard full= of holes is so much more trendy?

= Dallas, are you sure you want to go = on record with this?

= Direct experience is even better.  

BTW, do you actually type all those quotes yourself or do you = copy and paste?
Either way, my hat's off to you.

You're quite an adept quote-a-matic.

-- M ---
You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: dalval14@earthlink.net
List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=3Dtheos-l
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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0EA67.D96CEF60-- From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jun 01 06:52:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 13:52:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 81574 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 13:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 13:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 13:52:15 -0000 Received: from scribe.theosophy.com ([167.167.110.112]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05432 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:52:52 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601065135.051e04b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 06:52:11 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: The June 2001 THEOSOPHY WORLD, HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST, and various lists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker The June 2001 issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD is out. This is the 60th issue of the online theosophical monthly. See its page on egroups.com to read the issue and/or subscribe to it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-world mailto:editor@theosophy.com The monthly and its associated mailing list's archives are also online in html format, through February 1999. To view these pages, see: http://www.theosophy.net/tw.html The current issue contains: "A Living Epic," by B.P. Wadia "Great Sages and Their Place in the Cosmic Hierarchy," by Iverson L. Harris "Aryacharya's Return," by Victor Endersby "The Future of the Theosophical Society Seen from The World Congress, Sydney, Australia, 2001," by Betty Bland "Theosophical Philosophy and Mythology," Part III, by John Rau "Karma: A Survey of Continuous Action," by Katinka Hesselink "Life ... Or is it Death?" by Galina Tucker "The Hour of the Twilight," by George William Russell "The Dissemination of Esoteric Knowledge," Part III, by Boris de Zirkoff ---- The June 2001 issue of THE HIGH COUNTRY THEOSOPHIST is also out. The current issue contains: Brotherhood Key Concepts of Theosophy SECRET DOCTRINE Questions and Answers Section An Introduction to Patanjali The Story of Uddalaka The monthly is online in pdf format. To view it, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/high_country ---------------------------------------------------------- SOME THEOSOPHICAL MAILING LISTS * theos-talk@yahoogroups.com A general discussion for subscribers of THEOSOPHY WORLD magazine: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk ---- * mahat@yahoogroups.com To present theosophical materials that go beyond the printed word, simple ascii text, and announce the availability of such. The most recent addition is a talk on the Winter Solstice given by Boris de Zirkoff. (The talk is an mp3 file that can be downloaded and played on one's home computer.) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mahat ---- * theosofie-groep@yahoogroups.com In the Dutch language: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosofie-groep ---- * theosophie-dialog@yahoogroups.com In the German language: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Theosophie-Dialog ---- * blavatsky_study@yahoogroups.com Where the focus is solely on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Blavatsky_Study ---- * theos-l@list.vnet.net A free-for-all discussion of the pros and cons of theosophical ideas on a list dating back to 1993: http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l ---- * bn-basic@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) introductory study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-study@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) general study: http://www.blavatsky.net ---- * bn-sd@blavatsky.net A moderated (but large) study of THE SECRET DOCTRINE by H.P. Blavatsky: http://www.blavatsky.net From ringding@blinx.de Fri Jun 01 07:07:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 14:07:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 41711 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 14:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 14:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 14:07:24 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f51E7LO20292 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:07:21 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from FrankReitemeyer (cppp-147.blinx.de [62.96.222.147]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f51E7JE20270 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:07:19 +0200 Message-ID: <00ec01c0eaa4$67b316a0$84de603e@FrankReitemeyer> To: References: <000901c0ea48$c681e3c0$5fa6a640@istvanba> Subject: VIRUS WARNING Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:07:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Don't open the email from pendragon headed "Re: Theos-World Digest Number 187", it's a virus. If you open the email the virus will be active and spread itselfs to the first 3 senders found in the first 3 emails in your mail folder. That's no joke. The same was today wiht the German mailing lit where pendragon (someone form the TS Temple of the People) spreat the virsu, too. Frank From noone@nowhere.com Fri Jun 01 07:37:08 2001 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: message missing To: theos-talk@egroups.com From: "Message Missing" message missing From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jun 01 07:37:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 14:37:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7432 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 14:37:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 14:37:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 14:37:08 -0000 Received: from scribe.theosophy.com ([167.167.110.112]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15239 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:37:45 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601073237.0527a840@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:37:05 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING -- no more theos-talk attachments for now In-Reply-To: <9f890j+jgje@eGroups.com> References: <00ec01c0eaa4$67b316a0$84de603e@FrankReitemeyer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker Hi. I tried to reply to this message just a moment ago, but somehow my reply got dropped, and only the quoted text appeared. It looks like yahoogroups does not filter attachments for viruses. This means that any yahoogroups mailing list that we belong to that allows attachments could be sending us viruses. But this is also true of email from friends and strangers as well. We need to keep our virusscan software and definitions up to date. On my laptop, Norton Antivirus has caught an email virus twice this week. Regarding the situation with theos-talk, I've deleted the infected email from the list. I've also changed the list so that attachments with messages are discarded. If anyone has a small attachment they'd like to include with a message to theos-talk, send it to me and I'll virusscan it and post it to the list for them. At 02:31 PM 6/1/01 +0000, you wrote: >--- In theos-talk@y..., "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > Don't open the email from pendragon headed "Re: Theos-World Digest >Number > > 187", it's a virus. > > > > If you open the email the virus will be active and spread itselfs >to the > > first 3 senders found in the first 3 emails in your mail folder. > > > > That's no joke. > > > > The same was today wiht the German mailing lit where pendragon >(someone form > > the TS Temple of the People) spreat the virsu, too. > > > > Frank > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jun 01 08:04:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 15:04:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 40949 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 15:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 15:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (64.211.240.230) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 15:02:31 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: compiler@wisdomworld.org Received: from [10.1.2.52] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 15:01:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:01:00 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING Message-ID: <9f8anc+8tt9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00ec01c0eaa4$67b316a0$84de603e@FrankReitemeyer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 941 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.3.34.114 From: compiler@wisdomworld.org Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. I ask because I did open the automatic email that came, but as always, I ALWAYS dump any emails that I open and see an "Attachment" included. I never open the attchment. To conclude: Am I now infected simply because I opened the email, even though I did not open the attachment? John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- --- In theos-talk@y..., "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > Don't open the email from pendragon headed "Re: Theos-World Digest Number > 187", it's a virus. > > If you open the email the virus will be active and spread itselfs to the > first 3 senders found in the first 3 emails in your mail folder. > > That's no joke. > > The same was today wiht the German mailing lit where pendragon (someone form > the TS Temple of the People) spreat the virsu, too. > > Frank From eldon@theosophy.com Fri Jun 01 08:18:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 15:18:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 34458 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 15:16:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 15:16:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 15:16:10 -0000 Received: from scribe.theosophy.com ([167.167.110.112]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24568 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:16:47 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601081311.051e89b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: eldon/theosophy.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:16:06 -0700 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING In-Reply-To: <9f8anc+8tt9@eGroups.com> References: <00ec01c0eaa4$67b316a0$84de603e@FrankReitemeyer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Eldon B Tucker John: In this case, it's the attachment which is a program that contains the virus, not the email itself. But it might be possible for an attachment to be a macro that automatically runs when you open an email, in certain email programs like outlook? The safest thing to do is to either delete the email without looking at it, so save it to a file, then look at the file with some ascii-only editor like notepad, vi, etc. to get a look at the non-attachment part of the message. -- Eldon At 03:01 PM 6/1/01 +0000, you wrote: >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. I >ask because I did open the automatic email that came, but as always, I >ALWAYS dump any emails that I open and see an "Attachment" included. I >never open the attchment. > >To conclude: Am I now infected simply because I opened the email, even >though I did not open the attachment? > >John DeSantis >(Compiler) >------- > >--- In theos-talk@y..., "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > Don't open the email from pendragon headed "Re: Theos-World Digest Number > > 187", it's a virus. > > > > If you open the email the virus will be active and spread itselfs to the > > first 3 senders found in the first 3 emails in your mail folder. > > > > That's no joke. > > > > The same was today wiht the German mailing lit where pendragon (someone > form > > the TS Temple of the People) spreat the virsu, too. > > > > Frank > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jun 01 08:24:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 15:24:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 24079 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 15:24:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: compiler@wisdomworld.org Received: from [10.1.2.74] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:24:06 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING Message-ID: <9f8c2m+6ujk@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601081311.051e89b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1769 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 24.3.34.114 From: compiler@wisdomworld.org Eldon, Thanks. John ------- --- In theos-talk@y..., Eldon B Tucker wrote: > John: > > In this case, it's the attachment which is a program that contains > the virus, not the email itself. But it might be possible for an > attachment to be a macro that automatically runs when you open an > email, in certain email programs like outlook? The safest thing to > do is to either delete the email without looking at it, so save it > to a file, then look at the file with some ascii-only editor like > notepad, vi, etc. to get a look at the non-attachment part of the > message. > > -- Eldon > > At 03:01 PM 6/1/01 +0000, you wrote: > >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di > >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. I > >ask because I did open the automatic email that came, but as always, I > >ALWAYS dump any emails that I open and see an "Attachment" included. I > >never open the attchment. > > > >To conclude: Am I now infected simply because I opened the email, even > >though I did not open the attachment? > > > >John DeSantis > >(Compiler) > >------- > > > >--- In theos-talk@y..., "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > > Don't open the email from pendragon headed "Re: Theos-World Digest Number > > > 187", it's a virus. > > > > > > If you open the email the virus will be active and spread itselfs to the > > > first 3 senders found in the first 3 emails in your mail folder. > > > > > > That's no joke. > > > > > > The same was today wiht the German mailing lit where pendragon (someone > > form > > > the TS Temple of the People) spreat the virsu, too. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ terms/ From ringding@blinx.de Fri Jun 01 08:41:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 15:41:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10230 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 15:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 15:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 15:41:18 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f51FfFI02424 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:41:15 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from FrankReitemeyer (cppp-189.blinx.de [62.96.222.189]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f51FfDE02415 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:41:14 +0200 Message-ID: <00bf01c0eab1$85d7d780$91de603e@FrankReitemeyer> To: References: <9f8anc+8tt9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:41:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. Yes, don't open the attachment as it contains the virus. I am formatting now my hardisk as my McAffe version recognizes the virus not. A friend of mine has the Norton prg. which does. Frank From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jun 01 08:51:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 15:51:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 76387 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 15:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 15:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 15:49:16 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601154916.OJAJ13856.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:49:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3B17C6CC.C9410B97@wisdomworld.org> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:46:05 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING References: <9f8anc+8tt9@eGroups.com> <00bf01c0eab1$85d7d780$91de603e@FrankReitemeyer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler Frank, Thanks. John ------- Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di > >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. > > Yes, don't open the attachment as it contains the virus. > I am formatting now my hardisk as my McAffe version recognizes the virus > not. > A friend of mine has the Norton prg. which does. > Frank > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From adelasie@thegrid.net Fri Jun 01 09:45:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@thegrid.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 16:45:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 79844 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 16:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 16:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.mail.onemain.com) (63.208.208.73) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 16:43:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 24475 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 16:43:37 -0000 Received: from 209-162-43-50.thegrid.net (HELO user) ([209.162.43.50]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp06.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Jun 2001 16:43:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:47:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00bf01c0eab1$85d7d780$91de603e@FrankReitemeyer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) From: "adelasie" FYI...My Panda Antivirus program recognized this virus too and I deleted it with no problem. I am sure the virus was sent inadvertently. I have received three viruses this week, including another one sent inadvertently by a friend, which is more than I ever received in so short a time, so I think the virus activity on the internet must be on the upswing lately. But let's please remember that if a person doesn't have a virus protection program, then he has no way of knowing that a virus is imbedded in an attatchment, especially since some viruses seem to just lurk in the computer and don't do anything observable. Adelasie On 1 Jun 01, at 17:41, Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or > >di you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained > >it. > > Yes, don't open the attachment as it contains the virus. > I am formatting now my hardisk as my McAffe version recognizes the > virus not. A friend of mine has the Norton prg. which does. Frank > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Jun 01 13:39:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:39:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 20150 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:39:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:39:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:39:38 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.a7.ed5ed4d (3979) for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:39:33 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 From: leonmaurer@aol.com There is no way for a virus to get to your hard drive and damage files by merely opening and reading e-mail. Viruses, Trojan horses and worms can only infect if an attached file is downloaded to your drive. Also most viruses on the Internet (usually ending in .exe, or .zip) are designed to infect PCs (IBM clones) using Windows, and cannot infect Macintosh. Although some files with endings such as .doc, .pdf, .gif, .jpg, etc., can contain a virus for either or both platforms. It is wise not to download any attached files from senders you do not know. Also, in the event a friendly file might contain a virus, it is wise to have a good virus detecting program equipped with the latest monthly updates. This program's preferences or control panel should be set to scan for viruses on downloading any file from the Internet. LHM In a message dated 06/01/01 3:19:55 PM, compiler@wisdomworld.org writes: >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or did >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. I >ask because I did open the automatic email that came, but as always, I >ALWAYS dump any emails that I open and see an "Attachment" included. I >never open the attchment. > >To conclude: Am I now infected simply because I opened the email, even >though I did not open the attachment? > >John DeSantis >(Compiler) From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jun 01 13:52:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:52:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 97964 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:52:40 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601205239.YJYZ13856.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:52:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3B180DE7.7410DD37@wisdomworld.org> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:49:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler Lenny, Thanks. I must admit that I am so gun-shy, being a technology-shy computer person to begin with, that I do not even open attached files from people whom I know, worrying that maybe they were infected without even knowing it, since if they feel free to send attachments in the first place, they probably are just as free in opening whatever attachments are sent to them. John ------- leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: > There is no way for a virus to get to your hard drive and damage files by > merely opening and reading e-mail. Viruses, Trojan horses and worms can only > infect if an attached file is downloaded to your drive. Also most viruses on > the Internet (usually ending in .exe, or .zip) are designed to infect PCs > (IBM clones) using Windows, and cannot infect Macintosh. Although some files > with endings such as .doc, .pdf, .gif, .jpg, etc., can contain a virus for > either or both platforms. > > It is wise not to download any attached files from senders you do not know. > Also, in the event a friendly file might contain a virus, it is wise to have > a good virus detecting program equipped with the latest monthly updates. This > program's preferences or control panel should be set to scan for viruses on > downloading any file from the Internet. > > LHM > > In a message dated 06/01/01 3:19:55 PM, compiler@wisdomworld.org writes: > > >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or did > >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. I > >ask because I did open the automatic email that came, but as always, I > >ALWAYS dump any emails that I open and see an "Attachment" included. I > >never open the attchment. > > > >To conclude: Am I now infected simply because I opened the email, even > >though I did not open the attachment? > > > >John DeSantis > >(Compiler) > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From dennw3k@earthlink.net Fri Jun 01 17:31:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dennw3k@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 00:31:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 8653 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 00:31:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 00:31:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.22) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 00:31:53 -0000 Received: from u7k5a4 (1Cust219.tnt15.lax3.da.uu.net [63.23.94.219]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15074 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004d01c0eaf7$48b33660$db5e173f@u7k5a4> To: References: <9f8anc+8tt9@eGroups.com> <00bf01c0eab1$85d7d780$91de603e@FrankReitemeyer> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:49:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Dennis Kier" I have the Norton Internet Security, and it popped up as soon as the email came through, and "quarantined" it. Norton also has an automatic update of virus signatures whenever you are on the Inet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Reitemeyer To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING > >Frank, please clarify: Did you mean to say "Don't open the email" or di > >you meant to say: "Don't open the attachment", as Eldon explained it. > > Yes, don't open the attachment as it contains the virus. > I am formatting now my hardisk as my McAffe version recognizes the virus > not. > A friend of mine has the Norton prg. which does. > Frank From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Jun 01 20:44:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 03:44:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 95492 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 03:44:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 03:44:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m09.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.164) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 03:44:08 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.be.1560db5b (3979) for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:43:43 EDT Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: VIRUS WARNING To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 28 From: leonmaurer@aol.com John, I wouldn't worry too much about viruses from people you know who can assure you that they check for viruses. If I sent you a file to download, you can be sure it's safe. But, if you need to be comfortable about it with others, next time you talk to your computer whiz kid, ask him to install an anti Virus program. Most are relatively inexpensive and some good ones are free on the Internet. Too bad you're such a computer klutz.:-) If you knew a little about how the Mac works and can download an attached file, I could send you a program you could install yourself, and could keep you supplied with monthly updates. (Which reminds me, I need the Virex update for June.) Although I download hundreds of files a year over the past five years, I have never gotten one virus warning from my Virex program.:-). Most viruses on the net are for PC Windows machines which are use by businesses and outnumber Macs more than 20 to 1. The hackers don't waste time trying to screw up Macs when there's so many PC's around. But, there are hundreds of Mac viruses out there as it is. So, if you plan to download files, a good program to screen them is worthwhile. Take care, Len In a message dated 06/01/01 9:00:24 PM, compiler@wisdomworld.org writes: >Lenny, Thanks. I must admit that I am so gun-shy, being a technology-shy >computer person to begin with, that I do not even open attached files from >people whom I know, worrying that maybe they were infected without even >knowing it, since if they feel free to send attachments in the first place, they >probably are just as free in opening whatever attachments are sent to them. > >John >------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jun 02 17:15:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 00:15:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 813 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 00:15:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 00:15:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:15:13 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0147.cvx4-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.146.147]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA06712; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:12:34 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-B-Basic" Subject: 10 - Extracts from WQJ Letter 10 Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:09:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net Saturday, June 02, 2001 Extracts from # 10 LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME By William Q. Judge Volume 1 compiled by Jasper Niemand; The Letters in Volume 1 originally appeared in The Path, December 1888 to March 1890. W. Q. Judge first published them in book form in 1891, ============================= Letter 10 Dear Jasper: Three Qualities of Nature [ Gunas ] You ask me about the "three qualities sprung from Nature," mentioned in the Bhagavad-Gita. They exist potentially (latent) in Purush (Spirit), and during that time spoken of in the Bhagavad-Gita as the time when He produces all things after having devoured them (which is the same thing as Saturn devouring his children), they come forth into activity, and therefore are found implicating all beings, who are said not to be free from their influence. "Beings" here must refer to formed beings in all worlds. Therefore in these forms the qualities exist [for form is derived from Nature [ = Prakriti = Cosmic Substance. -- J. N.], and at the same time implicate the spectator (soul) who is in the form. The Devas are gods -- that is, a sort of spiritual power who are lower than the Ishwara in man. They are influenced by the quality of Satwa, or Truth. They enjoy a period of immense felicity of enormous duration, but which having duration is not an eternity. It is written: "Goodness, badness, and indifference -- the qualities thus called -- sprung from Nature, influence the imperishable soul within the body." This imperishable soul is thus separated from the body in which the qualities influence it, and also from the qualities which are not it. It is Ishwara. The Ishwara is thus implicated by the qualities. SATTWA - GOODNESS The first or highest quality is Satwa, which is in its nature pure and pleasant, and implicates Ishwara by connection with pleasant things and with knowledge. Thus even by dwelling in Satwa the soul is implicated. RAJAS -- ACTION The second quality is Raja and causes action; it implicates the soul because it partakes of avidity and propensity, and causing actions thus implicates the soul. TAMAS -- INDIFFERENCE The third, Tamo quality, is of the nature of indifference and is the deluder of all mortals. It is fed by ignorance. RAJAS and TAMAS oppose Spirit ( SATTWA ) Here, then, are two great opposers to the soul, ignorance and action. For action proceeding from Raja assisted by Satwa does not lead to the highest place; while ignorance causes destruction. Yet when one knows that he is ignorant, he has to perform actions in order to destroy that ignorance. How to do that without always revolving in the whirl of action [Karma, causing rebirths. -- J. N.] is the question. He must first get rid of the idea that he himself really does anything, knowing that the actions all take place in these three natural qualities, and not in the soul at all. The word "qualities" must be considered in a larger sense than that word is generally given. IMPERSONALITY Then he must place all his actions on devotion. That is, sacrifice all his actions to the Supreme and not to himself. He must either (leaving out indifference) set himself up as the God to whom he sacrifices, or the other real God -- Krishna, and all his acts and aspirations are done either for himself or for the All. Here comes in the importance of motive. For if he performs great deeds of valor, or of benefit to man, or acquires knowledge so as to assist man, and is moved to that merely because he thinks he will attain salvation, he is only acting for his own benefit and is therefore sacrificing to himself. Therefore he must be devoted inwardly to the All; that is, he places all his actions on the Supreme, knowing that he is not the doer of the actions, but is the mere witness of them. DOUBT and IGNORANCE As he is in a mortal body, he is affected by doubts which will spring up. When they do arise, it is because he is ignorant about something. He should therefore be able to disperse doubt "by the sword of knowledge." For if he has a ready answer to some doubt, he disperses that much. All doubts come from the lower nature, and never in any case from higher nature. Therefore as he becomes more and more devoted he is able to know more and more clearly the knowledge residing in his Satwa part. For it says: "A man who, perfected in devotion (or who persists in its cultivation) finds spiritual knowledge spontaneously in himself in progress of time." Also: "The man of doubtful mind enjoys neither this world nor the other (the Deva world), nor final beatitude." [ B. Gita ] The last sentence is to destroy the idea that if there is in us this higher self it will, even if we are indolent and doubtful, triumph over the necessity for knowledge, and lead us to final beatitude in common with the whole stream of man. TURIYA -- Contemplation The three qualities are lower than a state called Turya, which is a high state capable of being enjoyed even while in this body. Therefore in that state, there exists none of the three qualities, but there the soul sees the three qualities moving in the ocean of Being beneath. This experience is not only met with after death, but, as I said, it may be enjoyed in the present life, though of course consciously very seldom. But even consciously there are those high Yogees who can and do rise up to Nirvana, or Spirit, while on the earth. This state is the fourth state, called Turya. There is no word in English which will express it. In that state the body is alive though in deep catalepsy. [Self-induced by the Adept. -- J. N.] When the Adept returns from it he brings back whatever he can of the vast experiences of that Turya state. Of course they are far beyond any expression, and their possibilities can be only dimly perceived by us. I cannot give any description thereof because I have not known it, but I perceive the possibilities, and you probably can do the same. It is well to pursue some kind of practice, and pursue it either in a fixed place, or in a mental place which cannot be seen, or at night. The fact that what is called Dharana, Dhyana, and Samadhi may be performed should be known. (See Patanjali's yoga system.) * Dharana is selecting a thing, a spot, or an idea, to fix the mind on. * Dhyana is contemplation of it. * Samadhi is meditating on it. When attempted, they of course are all one act. Now, then, take what is called the well of the throat or pit of the throat. * 1st. Select it. -- Dharana. * 2d. Hold the mind on it. -- Dhyana. * 3d. Meditate on it. -- Samadhi. This gives firmness of mind. Then select the spot in the head where the Shushumna nerve goes. Never mind the location; call it the top of the head. Then pursue the same course. This will give some insight into spiritual minds. At first it is difficult, but it will grow easy by practice. If done at all, the same hour of each day should be selected, as creating a habit, not only in the body, but also in the mind. Always keep the direction of Krishna in mind: namely, that it is done for the whole body corporate of humanity, and not for one's self. As regards the passions: Anger seems to be the force of Nature; there is more in it, though. Lust (so called) is the gross symbol of love and desire to create. It is the perversion of the True in love and desire. Vanity, I think, represents in one aspect the illusion -- power of Nature; Maya, that which we mistake for the reality. It is nearest always to us and most insidious, just as Nature's illusion is ever present and difficult to overcome. Anger and Lust have some of the Rajasika quality; but it seems to me that Vanity is almost wholly of the Tamo-gunam. May you cross over to the fearless shore. W.Q.J. -------------------------------------------- Comments by Jasper Neimand ON CONCENTRATION As regards the practices of concentration suggested in this letter, they are only stages in a life-long contemplation; they are means to an end, means of a certain order among means of other orders, all necessary, the highest path being that of constant devotion and entire resignation to the Law. The above means have a physiological value because the spots suggested for contemplation are, like others, vital centers. Excitation of these centers, and of the magnetic residue of breath always found in them, strengthens and arouses the faculties of the inner man, the magnetic vehicle of the soul and the link between matter and spirit. This is a form of words necessary for clearness, because in reality matter and spirit are one. We may better imagine an infinite series of force correlations which extend from pure Spirit to its grossest vehicle, and we may say that the magnetic inner vehicle, or astral man, stands at the half-way point of the scale. The secret of the circulation of the nervous fluid is hidden in these vital centers, and he who discovers it can use the body at will. Moreover, this practice trains the mind to remain in its own principle, without energizing, and without exercising its tangential force, which is so hard to overcome. THOUGHT REPRODUCES ITSELF CYCLICALLY Thought has a self-reproductive power, and when the mind is held steadily to one idea it becomes colored by it, and, as we may say, all the correlates of that thought arise within the mind. Hence the mystic obtains knowledge about any object of which he thinks constantly in fixed contemplation. Here is the rationale of Krishna's [the HIGHER SELF] words: "Think constantly of me; depend on me alone; and thou shalt surely come unto me." The pure instincts of children often reveal occult truths. I heard a girl of fifteen say recently: "When I was a small child I was always supposin'. I used to sit on the window seat and stare, stare, at the moon, and I was supposin' that, if I only stared long enough, I'd get there and know all about it." SPIRITUAL CULTURE Spiritual culture is attained through concentration. It must be continued daily and every moment to be of use. [ see more on this in AN EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY by W. Q. Judge, p. 25, ] The "Elixir of Life" (FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY) gives us some of the reasons for this truth. Meditation has been defined as "the cessation of active, external thought." Concentration is the entire life-tendency to a given end. For example, a devoted mother is one who consults the interests of her children and all branches of their interests in and before all things; not one who sits down to think fixedly about one branch of their interests all the day. Life is the great teacher; it is the great manifestation of Soul, and Soul manifests the Supreme. Hence all methods are good, and all are but parts of the great aim, which is Devotion. "Devotion is success in actions," says the Bhagavad-Gita. We must use higher and lower faculties alike, and beyond those of mind are those of the Spirit, unknown but discoverable. PSYCHIC POWERS The psychic powers, as they come, must also be used, for they reveal laws. But their value must not be exaggerated, nor must their danger be ignored. They are more subtle intoxicants than the gross physical energies. He who relics upon them is like a man who gives way to pride and triumph because he has reached the first wayside station on the peaks he has set out to climb. Like despondency, like doubt, like fear, like vanity, pride, and self-satisfaction, these powers too are used by Nature as traps to detain us. SPIRIT SEEKS FREEDOM FROM MATERIAL LIMITS Every occurrence, every object, every energy may be used for or against the great end: in each Nature strives to contain Spirit, and Spirit strives to be free. Shall the substance paralyze the motion, or shall the motion control the substance? VORTICAL, CIRCULAR MOTION of the MONAD The interrelations of these two is manifestation. The ratio of activity governs spiritual development; when the great Force has gained its full momentum, It carries us to the borders of the Unknown. It is a force intelligent, self-conscious, and spiritual: Its lower forms, or vehicles, or correlates may be evoked by us, but Itself comes only of its own volition. PREPARING OUR BODY FOR THE SELF TO USE We can only prepare a vehicle for It, in which, as Boehme says, "the Holy Ghost may ride in Its own chariot." "The Self cannot be known by the Vedas, nor by the understanding, nor by much learning. He whom the Self chooses, by him alone the Self can be gained." "The Self chooses him as his own. But the man who has not first turned aside from his wickedness, who is not calm and subdued, or whose mind is not at rest, he can never obtain the Self, even by knowledge." The italics are mine; they indicate the value of that stage of contemplation hitherto referred to as that in which the mind has ceased to energize, and when the pure energies of Nature go to swell the fountain of Spirit. In regard to the phrase in the above letter that the Adept "brings back what he can" from Turya, it is to be understood as referring to the fact that all depends upon the co-ordination of the various principles in man. He who has attained perfection or Mahatmaship has assumed complete control of the body and informs it at will. But, of course, while in the body he is still, to some extent, as a soul of power, limited by that body or vehicle. That is to say, there are experiences not to be shared by that organ of the soul called by us "the body," and beyond a certain point its brain cannot reflect or recall them. The point varies according to the degree of attainment of individual souls, and while in some it may be a high point of great knowledge and power, still it must be considered as limited compared with those spiritual experiences of the freed soul. The work upon which all disciples are employed is that of rendering the body more porous, more fluidic, more responsive to all spiritual influences which arise in the inner center, in the soul which is an undivided part of the great Soul of all, and less receptive of the outside material influences which are generated by the unthinking world and by those qualities which are in nature. ABSTRACT THINKING Abstract thought is said to be "the power of thinking of a thing apart from its qualities;" but these qualities are the phenomenal, the evident, and they make the most impression upon our senses. They bewilder us, and they form a part of that trap which Nature sets for us lest we discover her inmost secret and rule her. More than this: our detention as individual components of a race provides time for that and other races to go through evolutionary experience slowly, provides long and repeated chances for every soul to amend, to return, to round the curve of evolution. In this Nature is most merciful, and even in the darkness of the eighth sphere to which souls of spiritual wickedness descend, her impulses provide opportunities of return if a single responsive energy is left in the self-condemned soul. VIRTUE and MORAL CODES Many persons insist upon a perfect moral code tempered by social amenities, forgetting that these vary with climate, nationalities, and dates. Virtue is a noble offering to the Lord. But insomuch as it is mere bodily uprightness and mere mental uprightness, it is insufficient and stands apart from uprightness of the psychic nature or the virtue of soul. The virtue of the soul is true Being; its virtue is, to be free. The body and the mind are not sharers in such experiences, though they may afterward reflect them, and this reflection may inform them with light and power of their own kind. Spirituality is not virtue. It is impersonality, in one aspect. BECOMING SPIRITUAL It is as possible to be spiritually "wicked" as to be spiritually "good." These attributes are only conferred upon spirituality by reason of its use for or against the great evolutionary Law, which must finally prevail because it is the Law of the Deity, an expression of the nature and Being of the Unknown, which nature is towards manifestation, self-realization, and reabsorption. All that clashes with this Law by striving for separate existence must in the long run fail, and any differentiation which is in itself incapable of reabsorption is reduced to its original elements, in which shape, so to say, it can be reabsorbed. Spirituality is, then, a condition of Being which is beyond expression in language. Call it a rate of vibration, far beyond our cognizance. Its language is the language of motion, in its incipiency, and its perfection is beyond words and even thought. "The knowledge of the Supreme Principle is a divine silence, and the quiescence of all the senses." -- (Clavis of Hermes.) "Likes and dislikes, good and evil, do not in the least affect the knower of Brahm, who is bodiless and always existing." -- (Crest Jewel of Wisdom.) "Of that nature which is beyond intellect many things are asserted according to intellection, but it is contemplated by a cessation of intellectual energy better than with it." -- (Porphyrios.) ENTERING THE BOUNDLESS Thought is bounded, and we seek to enter the boundless. The intellect is the first production of Nature which energizes for the experience of the soul, as I said. When we recognize this truth we make use of that natural energy called Thought for comparison, instruction, and the removal of doubt, and so reach a point where we restrain the outward tendencies of Nature, for, when these are resolved into their cause and Nature is wholly conquered and restrained, that cause manifests itself both in and beyond Nature. "The incorporeal substances in descending are divided and multiplied about individuals with a diminution of power; but when they ascend by their energies beyond bodies, they become united and exist as a whole by and through exuberance of power." -- (Porphyrios.) These hints may suffice for such minds as are already upon the way. Others will be closed to them. Language only expresses the experiences of a race, and since ours has not reached the upper levels of Being we have as yet no words for these things. The East has ever been the home of spiritual research; she has given all the great religions to the world. The Sanscrit has thus terms for some of these states and conditions, but even in the East it is well understood that the formless cannot be expressed by form, or the Illimitable by the limits of words or signs. The only way to know these states is to be them: we never can really know anything which we are not. -- J. N. --------------------------------------------------------- From compiler@wisdomworld.org Sun Jun 03 16:48:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 23:48:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 75920 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 23:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 23:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 23:48:48 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010603234847.ZCHY23855.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:48:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3B1ADA2A.58583B08@wisdomworld.org> Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:45:31 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-l@list.vnet.net, Theosophie-Dialog@yahoogroups.com Subject: "NARADA" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler I just finished proofreading and posting this article, the 140th one of the almost 300 that are on the "List of Collated Articles", a section on the "Additional" articles Index page. As I was working on it, I thought that on a long list of articles, the name of it, like some of the other articles on the list, even though very informative and useful, might not catch the attention of the person who is perusing the long list for the next article they might want to read -- sort of like the idea that "You can't tell a book by its cover." Because of this I decided to post it and feature it in this way, as I am quite confident that many readers, both new students and student-teachers, will find it most useful: NARADA: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/Narada.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From parkplace3072@juno.com Sun Jun 03 22:20:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: parkplace3072@juno.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 05:20:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 9254 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 05:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m11.jersey.juno.com) (64.136.16.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:20:53 -0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"FTOux3pC9KmhPWMdHKQ5w5oYe1A8NWvjndf0fyvKcDBoxwfvylnn0g=="> Received: (from parkplace3072@juno.com) by m11.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id F63L2SGK; Mon, 04 Jun 2001 01:20:12 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 01:19:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Theos-World "NARADA" Message-ID: <20010604.011935.-85004909.1.parkplace3072@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: parkplace3072@juno.com HI, I just printed out 'Narada" and was so pleased by the way it efficiently used the space of the page, so many of the articles are crunched into the left hand side that it seems to me, to be somewhat wasteful, although I do reuse the other side, another time. Respectfully, best of fortune, ak From info@blavatskyarchives.com Mon Jun 04 11:17:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: info@blavatskyarchives.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 18:17:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 10802 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 18:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 18:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.san.yahoo.com) (209.132.1.30) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 18:16:48 -0000 Received: from [169.197.8.73] by mail.san.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:15:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3B18437B000007D5@mail.san.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:15:51 -0700 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?16=20items=20just=20added=20to=20the=20archives?= Reply-To: info@blavatskyarchives.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Blavatsky=20Archives?= Sixteen items have just been added to the BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES at http://www.blavatskyarchives.com (1) "A Reminiscence of H.P.B." by G. Soobiah Chetty. [Reprinted from "The Theosophist" (Adyar, Madras, India), May 1924, pp. 244-245.] (2)"Old Diary Leaves" by G. Subbiah Chetty. [Reprinted from "Adyar Notes and News," August 9, 1928, pp. 5-6.] (3)"Reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky" by G. Soobiah Chetty. [Reprinted from "The Theosophist" (Adyar, Madras, India), October 1931, pp. 47-49.] (4)"The Theosophical Mahatmas" by William T. Brown. [Reprinted from "The Religio-Philosophical Journal" (Chicago), October 16, 1886, p. 2.] (5)"Occultism in India" by William T. Brown. [Reprinted from "The Religio-Philosophical Journal" (Chicago) January 29, 1887, p. 2.] (6)"Impressions of Madame Blavatsky" by Henry Sidgwick. [Reprinted from "Henry Sidgwick: A Memoir" by Arthur Sidgwick and Eleanor Mildred Sidgwick, London, Macmillan and Co., Limited, 1906, pp. 384-385, 405, 410.] (7)"Statement of the Hon'ble John Smith." [Reprinted from A.O. Hume's "Hints on Esoteric Theosophy, No. 1," Calcutta, 1882, 2nd. ed., pp. 97-98.] (8)"Letter from John Smith to H.P. Blavatsky." [Reprinted from "The Theosophist," (Adyar, Madras, India), March 1929, pp. 639-641.] (9)"Review of Madame Coulomb's Pamphlet Against Madame Blavatsky" by George Patterson. Reprinted from "The Madras Christian College Magazine" (Madras, India), January 1885, pp. 551-553. (10)"Madame Blavatsky" by George Patterson. [Reprinted from "The British Weekly" (London), May 14, 1891, p. 40] (11) "Madame Blavatsky: A Personal Reminiscence" by Walter R. Old. [Reprinted from "The Occult Review" (London), March 1914, pp. 137-147.] (12)"Letter from H.P. Blavatsky to Henry S. Olcott." [Reprinted from "The Theosophist" (Adyar, Madras, India), July 1908, p. 947.] (13)"Letter from Damodar K. Mavalankar to Henry S. Olcott." [Reprinted from "The Theosophist" (Adyar, Madras, India), May 1907, pp. 633-634.] (14)"A Tribute from the West" by C.A. Passingham. [Reprinted from "Lucifer" (London), August 15, 1891, pp. 457-458.] (15) "Mme. Blavatsky Dead: End of the Life of the Investigator of Theosophy." [Reprinted from "The New York Times," May 9, 1891, p. 1.] (16)"Madame Blavatsky and Her Slanderers" by N.D. Khandalavala. [Reprinted from "The Theosophist," (Adyar, Madras, India), November 1884, pp. 48-49.] All of this material can be found in the "New Items" section at http://www.blavatskyarchives.com=20 Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com --------------------------------------- BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com Publishes rare & hard-to-find source=20 documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. --------------------------------------- SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/bookstore.htm --------------------------------------- ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm This new book contains a unique collection of=20 rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. --------------------------------------- Theosophyonthe.NET http://theosophyonthe.net Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy --------------------------------------- You can always access our main site=20 BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing=20 into the URL address bar the following=20 6 characters: hpb.cc From compiler@wisdomworld.org Mon Jun 04 12:16:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 19:16:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 25320 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 19:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 19:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 19:15:57 -0000 Received: from wisdomworld.org ([24.3.34.114]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010604191556.ZWZC23855.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@wisdomworld.org>; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:15:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3B1BEBB5.1336BCE3@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:12:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-l@list.vnet.net, Theosophie-Dialog@yahoogroups.com Subject: "NATURE AND NATURE'S GOD" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Compiler The mix of subjects in this article, which is a collation from the writings of HPB, cover both science and religion, and should be quite helpful to everyone. It's the latest one finished and is the 141st article of the almost 300 that are in the "Collated Articles" section, which is found on the "Additional" articles Index page, and is listed alphabetically there: NATURE AND NATURE'S GOD: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/NatureAndNaturesGod.html John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: Wisdom World web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html The Index page of the Introductory, "Setting the Stage" book: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are steadily being added: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html ------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jun 05 02:45:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 09:45:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 33689 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 09:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 09:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 09:45:18 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0108.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.188.108]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA26888; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) To: "AA-Dal" , "AA-SD-BN" Subject: TIME & CONSCIOUSNESS Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 02:40:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 From: dalval14@earthlink.net TIME -- REALITY -- CONSCIOUSNESS S.D. Vol. I p 37, then the reason that TIME is called "an illusion" is because of its limits in the definitions given to it. The term DURATION is used to indicate LIMITLESS TIME. "Illusion" does not man that causes and effects do not follow each other, but it does mean that they are temporary and subject to change. Another word for them when connected with objects of choice would be KARMA. We as eternal MONADS ( ATMA-BUDDHI ) -- when we are able to raise our perceptions (which, "here and now" are limited mainly to our gross plane of physical existence) to the level of the SPIRITUAL ( and read there the AKASIC records which are immutable and imperishable). We will have passed out of the "time-illusions" imposed by this "here and now" to the timeless stream of DURATION. The "We" does not change. It is the ever-eternal, immortal and enduring SPIRITUAL Center (the ETERNAL PILGRIM - the MONAD in each of us - always ONE with the ABSOLUTE from which it emanates directly.) Several things are made plain in Theosophical metaphysics: 1. the Monad is deathless and eternal 2. the Monad is an indissoluble compound of the SPIRIT and of PRIMORDIAL MATTER (Buddhi). 3. KARMA (personal) is created every moment buy our voluntary THOUGHTS, FEELINGS and ACTIONS. 4. Our Karma attaches us to the rest of the manifested consciousness-intelligence-matter as we are also to the ideal SPIRITUAL and to the ineffable ABSOLUTE -- which is the ROOT OF ALL. (We are part of the Universal Karma.) 5. The "WE" in us is superior to the Mind, emotions & desires, and to the brain and the various "principles" that form the personality (the "mask" we use and live in). This includes the physical and astral bodies and the vitality (prana). 6. The Inner "WE" uses the Mind as a "tool" and directs it. 7. Reality exists for each ILLUSION to the extent that it has shape, form, vitality, power to live, and purpose. Our desire, on one hand, and our aspirations and altruism, on the other, when set into action, give it life , then a place in our memory, and the result is KARMA, because we have changed and affected in some way our environment which consists basically of other MONADS who are in evolution as we are, but at various stages in this vast and sensitive, intelligent COOPERATIVE we call for short: The Universe. If "Reality" sounds paradoxical, it is because it exists in the manifested world, and then fades into an indelible impression in the records of the Akasa -- where all cause/effect relations are forever made clear as well as actually recorded. [ Look at the definitions in the S.D. Vol. I pp 328-330 ] 8. Being imperishable energy, Karma IS NOT SUBJECT TO TIME. It is the basis for the illusions we name "time." In other words if we had clear VISION into the future as into the past we could trace the cause/effect relationships of every aspect of Karma -- personal, familial, mundial and universal. Before making any choice, in such case, we would be able to trace the effect of our decisions, interference, impression before we made them. Only the Great Adepts, the Elder Brothers have developed from WITHIN THEMSELVES this ATMIC FACULTY. For us, in our "here and now limitations," it is still potential and hence, it is veiled -- yet the idea persists. Hope this might help, DTB From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jun 05 02:48:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 09:48:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 49436 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 09:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 09:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 09:48:17 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0108.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.188.108]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA27481; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 02:44:35 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: [bn-sd] What is Consciousness? Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 02:40:55 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net Monday, June 04, 2001 Dear Friends: Let us try and consider what Theosophy has to say about fundamental ideas in practical daily life, and the possibility of our investigating and verifying their accuracy. Using the dictionary to make sure we understand the range and meaning of words is an important first step: CONSCIOUS (--NESS) -- the Dictionary says its roots are: ALONG WITH and TO KNOW. Or to gain knowledge along with others - and exchange information. But there is more: Back to the Dictionary which offers: Additionally, it means SHARING KNOWLEDGE; AWARENESS; SENSITIVITY to INWARD STATE or OUTWARD FACTS; a CONSCIOUS UNIT; SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS; MENTALLY AWAKE or ACTIVE; CRITICAL AWARENESS; INTENTIONAL. It does not state what the CONSCIOUS UNIT is. It seems to always imply INTENTION and AWARENESS. This AWARENESS may be directed inward or outward. It may be critical, or only fact-gathering. It is a mental function. It requires the WAKING STATE for us to direct it. It does not state who or what "WE" are who use it and can direct it. It does not describe what other "states" may be, but recognizes by implication they exist. It does say that the Mind can be directed by the REAL SELF (the "WE") within. "WE" uses and controls the Mind. How do we get to know more about the "WE" in each of us ? Patanjali in his YOGA SUTRAS, indicates that "the Universe exists for the Soul's experience and emancipation." (Pat, pp. 25, 26.) He also indicates that the Soul, when in a body, is conjoined with "the organ of thought." We must assume (using the definitions given by H.P.B. in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY) that by "Soul" the Higher Manas - BUDDHI-MANAS is meant. The "organ of thought" in the body would then be its reflection, or, the Lower Manas - KAMA-MANAS. From that Lower-Manas (the embodied brain-mind) arises misconception, errors of discrimination and choice in action, and Patanjali observes that these bring about future pain (through KARMIC reaction to our choosing). (Pat. p. 21-2.) As to the constitution of the manifested Universe, Patanjali states it is compounded of "purity, action and rest" ( or as expressed in the BHAGAVAD GITA it is Sattva, Rajas and Tamas ) The indication in both books is that the Soul (Higher Manas) "is the PERCEIVER; is vision itself pure and simple; and looks directly upon ideas." (Pat. p. 26) In THE SECRET DOCTRINE, H.P.B. quotes from an occult Commentary ( S.D. I 289) : "There is not one finger's breadth (ANGULA) of void Space in the whole Boundless (Universe)..." Later on (S.D. I 632) she gives an expansion to this concept where she speaks of three distinct "Hosts" ( "Gods," "Monads," and "Atoms") writing, she asks : "Whence the substance that clothes them-the apparent organism they evolve around their centers? The Formless Radiations, existing in the harmony of Universal Will, and being what we term the collective or the aggregate of cosmic Will on the plane of the subjective Universe, unite together an infinitude of monads-each the mirror of its own Universe-and thus individualizes for the time being an independent mind omniscient and universal; and by the same process of magnetic aggregation they create for themselves objective visible bodies, out of the interstellar atoms...." S.D. I 632-3 The Monad is not only a duad (SPIRIT / PRIMORDIAL MATTER) or Atma-Buddhi conjoined, but associated with it is the MIND. Consider that the Mind stands as the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS (wit its roots in the ABSOLUTE) and which is eternally midway between these two primordial Monadic poles, and is the impartial and impersonal WITNESS (Perceiver) Of all changes. Thus the MONAD is triune. Consciousness or awareness and contemplation on any selected subject is innate to it. An old commentary quoted in NOTES ON THE BHAGAVAD GITA pp. 98-100 says in part: "...the One Consciousness...as differentiated in man is his Higher Self [Atma] ...Our consciousness is one and not many, nor different from other consciousnesses. It is not waking consciousness or sleeping consciousness, or any other but consciousness itself. ... The One Consciousness of each person is the witness or spectator of the actins and experiences of every state we are in or pass through. It therefore follows that the waking consciousness of the mind is not separate consciousness. The one consciousness pierces up and down through all the states or planes of Being, and serves to uphold the memory-whether complete or incomplete-of each state's experiences. ''' Then observing the practical side of this knowledge the commentator observes: "The way to salvation must be entered. To take the first step raises the possibility of success...The first step is giving up bad associations and getting a longing for a knowledge of [the Supreme TRUTH]; the second is joining god company. listening to their teachings and practicing them; the third is strengthening the first two attainments, having faith, and continuing in it...." GITA NOTES pp. 98 - 100 Best wishes DTB ============================== -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Wheeler [mailto:ultinla@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:45 PM To: sd@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-sd] What is Consciousness? ================= "Time is only an illusion produced by the succession of our states of consciousness as we travel through eternal duration, and it does not exist where no consciousness exists in which the illusion can be produced; but "lies asleep." (I, 37) ================= If this is so, then the next question would be "What causes the succession of our states of consciousness?" Unless we come to grips with this second question we will, get stuck in the dogmatic position of, "Just do your duty and everything will work out ok." Everyone is silent on the problem of cycles: both scientists and theosophists alike. A pioneering scientist who denies the reality of time becomes very silent about our "changing states of consciousness." In fact, it is usually admitted that they don't know what consciousness is. Barbour does that in his book, The end of time. What does the group think consciousness is?? These "changing states" don't fall like topsy from the clouds, and it looks as if they are quite peculiar to each self-conscious unit. --- You are currently subscribed to bn-sd as: [dalval14@earthlink.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-sd-6722509Q@lists.lyris.net From ringding@blinx.de Wed Jun 06 03:30:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 10:30:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 77714 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 10:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 10:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 10:30:27 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f56AUOS26223 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:30:24 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from CaptainKirk (cppp-230.blinx.de [62.96.222.230]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f56AULE26145 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:30:21 +0200 Message-ID: <00b501c0ee73$e8459d60$87de603e@CaptainKirk> To: References: Subject: Re: Theos-World original versus Boris de Zirkoff editions of THE SECRET DOCTRINE Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:28:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Hi all, I have been told the story that Boris edited so many terms because he has had good reason to do so. A higher chela can regognize moments when it is necessary to reveil more then to unveil. Perhaps Boris has seen that the theosophical philosophy is on the descending arc and becomes more and more corrupt. Then someone who feels his duty could come to a situation where he decides to keep the teachings clean before the unwise. Could that be an explanation? Frank From ramadoss@infohwy.com Wed Jun 06 07:31:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ramadoss@infohwy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 14:31:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 66475 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 14:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 14:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.infohwy.com) (207.90.192.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 14:31:10 -0000 Received: from senzar (max1-103.max1.sa.infohwy.com [207.90.224.103]) by mail.infohwy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ryanw-infohwy) with ESMTP id JAA21260 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:40:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010606092522.00a73810@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: ramadoss/mail.infohwy.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:29:59 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World original versus Boris de Zirkoff editions of THE SECRET DOCTRINE In-Reply-To: <00b501c0ee73$e8459d60$87de603e@CaptainKirk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: ramadoss@infohwy.com I beg to differ on this issue. It is the right of everyone of us to put forward what our understanding of the facts presented in the original works of HPB and others. When the question of "correction" or "editing" for what ever reason comes up, how are we sure that the editing is improving the understanding. It is not unlike an world reknowned Professor of English trying to edit Shakespeare's plays to improve them. It is in the best interests of everyone to leave the originals intact and not tamper with them. ___MKR___ At 12:28 PM 6/6/