From david@tame33.freeserve.co.uk Sun Apr 01 01:20:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: david@tame33.freeserve.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 09:20:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 76702 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 09:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 09:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk) (195.92.195.176) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 09:20:13 -0000 Received: from modem-142.oxygen.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.7.142] helo=DavidTame) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14je1o-0003WO-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:20:09 +0100 Message-ID: <004f01c0ba8e$798a4100$8f01883e@DavidTame> To: Subject: Re: [Theos-World] Original writings - Mahatma Letters Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:30:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "David Tame" Dear Tony, I would by no means call myself an expert upon the Mahatma Letters. However from my recollection of various Theosophical readings, the Letters were produced in quite a number of ways; also as I recollect not all were precipitated - some, a few, were physically delivered by Indian chelas. K.H. sent at least one by normal mail or telegraph in an attempt to "prove" his own reality. So there's quite a variety of methods to consider? More than this, the variety of paper used is so noteworthy: the paper itself was not "precipitated" in the sense of being created out of the Great Sea of Light, but rather any parchments, papers, or even receipts and bills to hand in the "distant" Himalayas were used, and then "teleported" (which is technically a different thing to "precipitation"). The impression gained is that, understandably enough, paper was not so readily available there in Nepal / Tibet, and literally any kind that happened to be to hand was used. There is a great variety, but clearly IMO the paper itself originated in the physical plane originally. I was physically in the region in 1975 and then the local paper was still as some of the Letters today: very coarse and none-too-easy to write upon. >The letters are coated with some very thin kind of film by the Library, so >you would not have been touching the actual paper. It is difficult to >detect this covering. I really did not know this and indeed did not detect it at all. It's very well done. In other words, they are hardly laminated (!), but I feel you are indeed touching the actual paper, for what that is worth. >THE LETTERS ARE NOT WRITTEN (there is an exception), but rather, >precipitated. It is easy to overlook this fact. My understanding is that in a number but not all cases the WRITING was precipitated, but most (not all) of the Letters were teleported, as stated above. It is an error to think >that pen and ink were used and that it is "the actual paper touched and used >by the Master's hands" It is in fact far more. > >"I transcribe them with my own hand this once..."(Mahatma Letter 93, 2nd >ed., as numbered in British Library) Yes, true. There has also been discussion, and I cannot recall where, that crayon was used for some Letters perhaps because at that altitude, in winter, ink would literally have frozen. In the instances where what APPEARS to be crayon has been used, the words are necessarily thicker and harder to decipher. I feel sure that some Letters were truly hand-written, though again I claim no expertise and cannot offer references. In viewing the Letters, in any case, the handwriting is exactly as one would expect from something handwritten i.e. it is imperfect, characteristic, and goes awry here and there. It wasn't only a "spiritual" experience to view the Letters, by the way. To be honest it made our heads spin after a few hours since the writing, Morya's especially, can take considerable concentration to figure out in the case of many words or phrases. I actually got quite a headache. For studying the content purely, a printed book is far preferable IMO. > >"The same as to the *precipitation* by the chela of the transferred thought >upon (or rather, *into*) paper..." the Master emphasises "into". >The words/thoughts are in the paper rather than on the surface. >And it is "transferred thought." > >"The same as to the precipitation by the chela of the transferred thought >upon (or rather, *into*) paper: if the mental picture received be feeble his >visible reproduction of it must correspond. And the more so in proportion to >the closeness of attention he gives. He might -- were he but merely a person >of the true mediumistic temperament -- be employed by his "Master" as a sort >of *psychic printing machine* producing lithographed or psychographed >impressions of what the operator had in mind; his nerve-system, the machine, >his nerve-aura the printing fluid, the colours drawn from that exhaustless >storehouse of pigments (as of everything else) the Akasa. But the medium and >the chela are diametrically dissimilar and the latter acts consciously, >except under exceptional circumstances during development not necessary to >dwell upon here." (Letter 93) There is one type of Letter, in the distinct minority, in which the fact that they are not physically written is blatently clear. These few Letters are absolutely distinct from the others. I read many years ago that these underwent microscopic analysis and indeed no means could be determined for how the words were placed upon the paper in these cases. Of course I had heard of these particular Letters but how interesting to see them! The writing is produced upon the paper in a way I would liken to a cheap or faulty PC printer of today. It appears simply to have been impressed upon the paper, evidently not by pen or crayon, and minute parellel streaks of white (where the "printing" did not "take") go straight across the page and through the individual letters and words. Fascinating. Very much like an old printer of mine in "economy" or "high speed" mode! > >There is plenty to think about here: e.g. "the colours drawn from...Akasa," >rather than from bottles of ink. To what extent were the different shades >of red and blue, of which there are many, detectable, when you scrutinised >the letters? Why is it the case that there are these differences in the >shades of colour? I did not take notes and rely upon memory. In general any given Letter may have the same shade throughout, but there are also numerous instances of shade-changes which would be difficult to account for were they normally-written letters. Morya in particular almost always uses red. K.H. not so, but rather blue. But indeed in some instances - even within the briefest of notes - the colour does change from, say, blue to red even within a sentence or even in the middle of a word, then carrying on that way to the end. If the words are precipitated one could put this down to "psychic error", but looking at such Letters it could equally be explained by one writing medium having come to an end and another being taken up. I really don't know the reason for it to be sure. > >You write: ><<but always with the best will in mind, by men who were still encased within >bodies they were born into, and hence who were still, if only slightly, >prone to typical human error (but not much!).>>> > >This is how the Master puts it (Letter 93): >"The letter in question was framed by me while on a journey and on >horse-back. It was dictated mentally, in the direction of, and >"precipitated" by, a young chela not yet expert at this branch of Psychic >chemistry, and who had to transcribe it from the hardly visible imprint. >Half of it, therefore, was omitted and the other half more or less distorted >by the "artist." When asked by him at the time, whether I would look it over >and correct I answered, imprudently, I confess -- "anyhow will do, my boy -- >it is of no great importance if you skip a few words." I was physically very >tired by a ride of 48 hours consecutively, and (physically again) -- half >asleep. Besides this I had very important business to attend to psychically >and therefore little remained of me to devote to that letter. It was doomed, >I suppose. When I woke I found it had already been sent on, and, as I was >not then anticipating its publication, I never gave it from that time a >thought." Yes. While the Letters are a great source of Truth, they can indeed contain slight errors or, in particular, concepts not explained as clearly as they might be. They are - literally - letters. Some, in content, are hardly profound. As I wrote before, it is stated that they were by no means at the time intended for publication and public use, and hence we may perhaps need to be wary in conceiving of them as a veritable "Gospel" for the present era. I'd expect that such more definitive writings were those that came through HPB and, indeed, whatever immensity of Truth the Brotherhood must surely have still to release in future. (For the entire Great White Brotherhood can hardly have shut up shop and gone silent forevermore! This is another subject altogether, but when They communicate again, by whatever means, methinks we shall find a dividing of the way. A dividing between those who understand that the Brotherhood exists past, present, and future, and have probably only just cleared Their throats in reference to all they have to release to the world - and between those who can only accept the communications of over a century ago. One day I believe we'll face again, if we haven't already, the old problem of discerning authentic continuing revelation, just as the Jews for example did not accept the very Messiah for whom they waited. It is often interesting and indeed enlightening to concentrate one's mind upon what El Morya, Koot Hoomi, Hilarion, Saint Germain, etc. must be doing TODAY and indeed at this very moment. They will hardly be inactive!) > >This is another rather longer quote taken from "The Theosophist" vol. V, >p.64, December/January 1883/4. "Precipitation" by H.P.Blavatsky: > >"OF all phenomena produced by occult agency in connection with our Society, >none have been witnessed by a more extended circle of spectators or more >widely known and commented on through recent Theosophical publications than >the mysterious production of letters. The phenomenon itself has been so well >described in the *Occult World* and elsewhere, that it would be useless to >repeat the description here. Our present purpose is more connected with the >process than the phenomenon of the mysterious formation of letters. Mr. >Sinnett sought for an explanation of the process and elicited the following >reply from the revered Mahatma, who corresponds with him: > >*. . . Bear in mind these letters are not written but impressed, or >precipitated, and then all mistakes corrected. . . . I have to think it >over, to photograph every word and sentence carefully in my brain before it >can be repeated by precipitation. As the fixing on chemically prepared >surfaces of the images formed by the camera requires a previous arrangement >within the focus of the object to be represented, for, otherwise--as often >found in bad photographs--the legs of the sitter might appear out of all >proportion with the head, and so on--some have to first arrange our >sentences and impress every letter to appear on paper in our minds before it >becomes fit to be read. For the present, it is all I can tell you.* > >Since the above was written, the Masters have been pleased to permit the >veil to be drawn aside a little more, and the *modus operandi* can thus be >explained now more fully to the outsider. > >Those having even a superficial knowledge of the science of mesmerism know >how the thoughts of the mesmeriser, though silently formulated in his mind >are instantly transferred to that of the subject. It is not necessary for >the operator, if he is sufficiently powerful, to be present near the subject >to produce the above result. Some celebrated practitioners in this Science >are known to have been able to put their subjects to sleep even from a >distance of several days' journey. This known fact will serve us as a guide >in comprehending the comparatively unknown subject now under discussion. The >work of writing the letters in question is carried on by a sort of >psychological telegraphy; the Mahatmas very rarely write their letters in >the ordinary way. An electromagnetic connection, so to say, exists on the >psychological plane between a Mahatma and his chelas, one of whom acts as >his amanuensis. When the Master wants a letter to be written in this way, he >draws the attention of the chela, whom he selects for the task, by causing >an astral bell (heard by so many of our Fellows and others) to be rung near >him, just as the despatching telegraph office signals to the receiving >office before wiring the message. The thoughts arising in the mind of the >Mahatma are then clothed in word, pronounced mentally, and forced along the >astral currents he sends towards the pupil to impinge on the brain of the >latter. Thence they are borne by the nerve-currents to the palms of his >hands and the tips of his fingers, which rest on a piece of magnetically >prepared paper. As the thought-waves are thus impressed on the tissue, >materials are drawn to it from the ocean of *ákas*, (permeating every atom >of the sensuous universe) by an occult process, out of place here to >describe, and permanent marks are left. . ." Thank you for adding these details, Tony. In writing my previous post my intent was actually not to get so technical, though this has been interesting, but rather simply to declare how wonderful an experience it is to view the Letters themselves - a kind of a "wow" or pilgrimage experience, and that it brings the Masters in to a more tangible reality within our minds should we need that. To read the Letters in the actual handwriting, and to take in the personality or character of the Master - for example the way Morya so-confidently 'writes' across entire page after page on a 45 degree angle - seems to convey more of Their meaning and certainly more of Their personalities that can be gleaned from the printed text. I had actually lived very near the Letters for a number of years without making the time previously! I'll close with an anecdote. While it's not difficult to get permission to view the Letters, one does nevertheless have to apply in person, give some fairly good reason, and have a brief interview by the Library staff. The gentleman who interviewed me recognised the items (the Letters) I had requested on the form you fill in among the many thousands of manuscripts held there. "Oh, we had several people asking to see these a couple of months ago," he said. "What is it now? Isn't it that while you're reading them they float up off the table nearer to your eyes?" (A garbled version of the fact they were precipitated, obviously!) "Tell me about them," he invited. I did my best to explain what they are and who wrote them, and regarding their "floating up off the table" I promised not to let them follow me out the door and into the street! David T From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Apr 01 05:50:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 12:50:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 81258 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 12:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 12:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.12) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 13:51:56 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool0103.cvx19-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.244.103]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA16623; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:50:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: RE: Understanding our Inner Selves and Helping Evolution Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:49:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BA6F.7BB883C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <43.12dad46a.27f7b2c2@aol.com> From: dalval14@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BA6F.7BB883C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Saturday, March 31, 2001 Dear Friend Ananda: Let me insert some notes in the body of your query below. I would say, generally that if you secure and read Mme. Blavatsky’s THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY and with some referral to THE SECRET DOCTRINE (using the INDEX to that book is a helpful idea. You will find most of your questions already answered there and with great precision. Additionally, the research that you may do will have greater impact on you than anything others (like myself) may offer -- you will still have to verify their accuracy yourself. Best wishes, Dallas ============================ = -----Original Message----- From: AnandaYoga@aol.com [mailto:AnandaYoga@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 2:23 PM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Theos-World Helping evolution Dear Sirs, Again I require some input. I do thank you for your input on evolving souls and their intentions. Man is a state of being, is this correct. Is this state as we learn in a science? ========================== DTB According to Theosophy “man” is far more than a physical body. (see S.D. Vol. I, pp 181-2) Innate to him is the Mind. >From the Mind come Thought, Memory, Anticipation, and a Moral sense of universal Justice (Karma) ( see KEY --Original Edition 1889 -- pp. 92-3, 121, 135-6, 144, 158-9, 164-5, 178-81, 189-90), Yes you may say that HUMANITY or MANKIND represents the stage and the developing powers of the MIND as an independent faculty and power. It is, as “mind,” a “tool” of the INNER SELF (the MONAD -- Atma-Buddhi) That is because it can be selectively used to investigate a subject chosen by the Inner Self. This Inner or Higher Self (ATMA) is the ”dweller in the body.” And the mind, the desires, the life-principle, the astral body and the physical body are some of its “tools.” But even more important to understand is that the Spiritual being, the ATMA animates and sustains all its tools for their own good. They are also MONADS or “eternal and imperishable “Life-Units.” They have their own evolutionary work (see S.D. I 181). the Universal ATMA working through the individual Monadic ATMA, of each “Life-Unit,” sustains all the ‘Monads of lesser experience” through their pilgrimage from plane to plane and from stage to stage as represented by the 7-fold ladder of principles (or active agents) and the 7 planes of possible experience. Each human being that attains the MIND STAGE has to pass through the fire of testing. It is seemingly independent, and can choose from moment to moment its own future “path.” With this power also comes RESPONSIBILITY. Being able to think, to remember and to anticipate possible results, gives the embodied SELF ( the Lower-Mind or Kama-Manas) the power to create its own future. It has two broad “paths” before it. 1. It can learn and act according to UNIVERSAL LAW, and this is the uniting of Manas and Buddhi -- these form the WISE-MIND. Thus, in such a case where it chooses to be virtuous, to obey Universal Law, it becomes an agent and an assistant to the universal Evolutionary scheme -- its increase in VIRTUE causes the Spiritual Universe tom open before it and that becomes its unlimited or universal vision. This is DHYANA or the power of the “CEASELESS CONTEMPLATION, of TRUTH and KARMA as universal Law. At death the volume of spiritual memories is large and these form the “food” for a long Devachan (see in KEY pp. 10, 107-8, 145, 147-8, 177-8, 216-7.) before the next rebirth. [ If you do not have a copy of the original THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by H.P.B., then you can refer to it through: http://www.blavatsky.net ] Devachan is a period during which the spiritual thoughts and impulses are meditated on by the MONAD through the Higher EGO (Buddhi-Manas) and are then built into the permanent MEMORY of the MONAD ATMA-BUDDHI) This forms the increment of excellence in our forthcoming incarnation when improvement is to be noted in character and capacity, talents and genius. 2. or, being independent, and under the sway of desire and passion, as Kama-Manas, it may choose to be selfishly independent -- and break the “Laws of nature.” This is called VICE. The end result at death is that most of the memories are not fit for Devachan. Rebirth will see that the “skandhas” or “monads of lesser experience” will return to it under Karma and form the various “principles” of its Personality again. The complex physical brain is a tool of the mind. Science does not yet recognize the SOUL or the independence of the INTELLECTUAL process from the limits of the brain. The ancient science of the mind in India, as for instance the YOG SUTRAS OF PATANJALI, demonstrate this wisdom is very old and very complete. (Mr. Judge published a translation of these along with some valuable comments.) One may say that every Mahatma and every Rishi has passed through the HUMAN STAGE and has INDEPENDENTLY developed the mental faculties. (see S.D. Vol. I pp 570-575) ========================================= Are the planetary logos Monads of a sort. ======================================== DTB Each Universe, each Galaxy, each solar system, and finally each Planet -- has an INTELLIGENCE that acts as the Agent for the Universal law of PROGRESS and EVOLUTION. It assists and guides the creative and the building aspect of evolution. In terms of its wisdom, one may say that at a very long time ago it passed through the experiences of the human (Manasic) stage. As you correctly surmise each “Planetary Logos” has passed victoriously through the “Man-Stage.” It has assumed responsibility for a far more complex and wider task. But as a preliminary to successfully pass through the Man-stage, it has to become completely harmless to all other beings and to itself.. It becomes an incarnation of virtue. There can be no abuse of power, no selfishness, no favorites in such a condition. The word LOGOS translates WORD. One cannot speak unless one has thoughts. Thoughts imply in such case a PLAN for a fresh manifestation min which all the old MONADS ( Atma-Buddhis entities) will resume their obligatory duties and return to the active path of the Eternal Pilgrim -= which is the search for TRUTH. By drawing attention to the LOGOS -- the MONAD that is within every Man (and other being) the possibility of being self-enlightened is made possible and clear. It also serves as the base concept for Universal Brotherhood. Look on some of the answers given below as evidence of the cohesion and inter-dependence of Theosophical doctrines -- each one is essential to all the rest. ============================== The moon is the old earth? Its life atoms have left and re-gathered on our now earth. =============================== DTB That is generally the teaching you will find in S.D. l. 152 to 202. Al the “life-atoms” are the imperishable and immortal MONADS ( Jivas ). They form the basis for the whole of the Universal as well as our Earth’s Evolutionary scheme. They are the MIND (Soul) in Man and as Patanjali says : “For the sake of the Soul the Universe exists.” (see Patanjali YOGA APHORISMS , p. 25-6, Book 1, verses 18 and 20-21) The previous incarnation of our Earth and all the uncountable MONADS concerned and involved in that evolution return together to for what we now call our EARTH. The S.D. teaches that the Moon will dissolve before the 7th ROUND ( S.D. I 155 fn) ===================================== Do the planetary logos, then have 7 planes or stages of existence. How is it that we have parent planetary logos that help our Earth. Is this Saturn? ===================================== DTB Every being in the Universe has seven aspects or “Principles.” (see S.D. I p. 157, S.D. II 596, and KEY: pp. 91-2, 134-6, 175-6) In the VICE OF THE SILENCE, see 3rd Fragment (pp 52-3) where the 7 “Keys” are offered -- they are VIRTUES or the practice of Theosophical and Universal truths that unlock the doors to our own inner selves (the ETERNAL MONAD). The “Planetary Logos” that assists and guides our Earth (and humanity) is hinted at in the S.D. (see Vol. 1, 207-210, 272-9.) It is to be clearly understood this is NOT A GOD nor can any ordinary “prayers” ever reach IT. It is given the name of THE GREAT SACRIFICE. In ancient Hindu philosophy it was used as an image of universal excellence: the TRIMURTI, or the spiritualized GUNAS. Each has a specific duty in manvantara, and this dovetails with the other two in a perfect harmony of what appear to us as discords. It is ETERNAL and presides over the string of evolutionary sequences that relate (under KARMA) to this Earth and the beings (like you and me) which are connected with it.. The “Planetary Logos” is a spiritual Being (a Dhyani, a Maha-Rishi) that is in effect the HIGHEST aspect of the MONAD in IT. In us it is potential it may be called (in us) Atma-Buddhi-Manas, and as this Immortal is present in each of us, we are automatically BROTHERS to all others. If we are able to make our lives attuned to the high spiritual conditions that are implied in these concepts, we will have purified our own personality (that is the Monads of lesser experience that are associated with us) and we will be able to see SPIRITUAL BEINGS everywhere. We will also realize our duty to them is to assist them on their continuing progress. They are in effect “our children.” Such is the natural effect of self-controlled personal purification and evolution. It is symbolized in the BHAGAVAD GITA by the victory of the virtuous Pandavas over the vicious Kauravas (Kurus). Sri Krishna as portrayed there is symbolic of the “Planetary Logos” of our Earth and also of the UNIVERSAL LOGOS. Truth and goodness and virtue are all one. We have to understand and adopt them into our own living. ========================================= Again, I ask for your patience in my questioning, words are limiting and I can only hope that through all these questions you can see where the blockage is. These questions are coming from SD Vol. 1. The Mahatma Letters and finally The Esoteric Tradition. I read and reread and meditate and reread and so on. I have been reading the conversations here, and you do seem to clarify many points. Any help will be appreciated. Ananda =========================== === Best wishes. It will help if you are able to give the actual pages you are studying. Answers can be made more precise. Dallas ================================ ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BA6F.7BB883C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Saturday, March 31, 200= 1

 

 

Dear Friend Ananda:

 

 

Let = me insert some notes in the body of your query below.=

 

I wo= uld say, generally that if you secure and read Mme. Blavatsky’s THE KEY T= O THEOSOPHY and with some referral to THE SECRET DOCTRINE  (using the INDEX to that book is a helpful idea.  You will find most of your questio= ns already answered there and with great precision.

 

Addi= tionally, the research that you may do will have greater impact on you than anything others (like myself) may offer -- you will still have to verify their accur= acy yourself.

 

Best wishes,

 

Dall= as

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =3D

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: AnandaYoga@aol.com [mailto:AnandaYoga@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 20= 01 2:23 PM
To: theos-talk@theosophy.com=
Subject: Theos-World Helping evolution

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

Dear Sirs, <= /p>


      Again I require some input.  

 

I do thank you for your input on evol= ving souls and their intentions.        

 


      Man is a state of being, is this correc= t. Is this state as we learn in
a science?  

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

 

        &= nbsp;   DTB      According t= o Theosophy “man” is far more than a physical body. (see S.D. Vol= . I, pp 181-2)   Innate to him is the Mind.  From the Mind come Thought, Memor= y, Anticipation, and a Moral sense of universal Justice (Karma)  ( see KEY --Original Edition 1889= --  pp. 92-3, 121, 135-6, 144, 158-9, 164-5, 178-81, 189-90),

 

Yes = you may say that HUMANITY or MANKIND represents the stage and the developing po= wers of the MIND as an independent faculty and power.  It is, as “mind,” a “tool” of th= e INNER SELF (the MONAD -- Atma-Buddhi)   That is b= ecause it can be selectively used to investigate a subject chosen by the Inner Self. 

 

This= Inner or Higher Self (ATMA) is the ”dweller in the body.”  And the mind, the desires, the life-principle, the astra= l body and the physical body are some of its “tools.” 

 

But = even more important to understand is that the Spiritual being, the ATMA animates= and sustains all its tools for their own good.  They are also MONADS or “eternal and imperishable = “Life-Units.”  They have their own evolutionary = work (see S.D. I 181).  the Univer= sal ATMA working through the individual Monadic ATMA, of each “Life-Unit,= ”  sustains all the ‘Monads of = lesser experience” through their pilgrimage from plane to plane and from sta= ge to stage as represented by the 7-fold ladder of principles (or active agents) = and the 7 planes of possible experience.

 

Each= human being that attains the MIND STAGE has to pass through the fire of testing.<= span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  It is seemingly independent, and = can choose from moment to moment its own future “path.”  With this power also comes RESPONSIBILITY.  Being able to think, to remember = and to anticipate possible results, gives the embodied SELF  ( the Lower-Mind or Kama-Manas) the power to create its = own future.

 

It h= as two broad “paths” before it. = ;

 

1.  &= nbsp;      It can learn and act according to UNIVERSAL LAW, and this is the uniting of Ma= nas and Buddhi -- these form  the WISE-MIND.  Thus, in such a c= ase where it chooses to be virtuous, to obey Universal Law, it becomes an agent= and an assistant to the universal Evolutionary scheme -- its increase in VIRTUE= causes the Spiritual Universe tom open before it and that becomes its unlimited or= universal vision.  This is DHYANA or th= e power of the “CEASELESS CONTEMPLATION, of TRUTH and KARMA as universa= l Law.  At death the volume of spiritual memories is large and these form the “food” for a long Devachan= (see in KEY pp. 10, 107-8, 145, 147-8, 177-8, 216-7.) before the next rebirth.  [ If you do not have a copy of th= e original THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by H.P.B., then you can refer to it through:  http://www.blavatsky.net ]  Devachan is a period during which= the spiritual thoughts and impulses are meditated on by the MONAD through the H= igher EGO  (Buddhi-Manas) and are t= hen built into the permanent MEMORY of the MONAD&nb= sp; ( ATMA-BUDDHI)  This f= orms the increment of excellence in our forthcoming incarnation when improvement= is to be noted in character and capacity, talents and genius.

 

2. <= span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> or, being independent, and under t= he sway of desire and passion, as Kama-Manas, it may choose to be selfishly in= dependent -- and break the “Laws of nature.”  This is called VICE.  = The end result at death is that most of the memories are not fit for Devachan.<= span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  Rebirth will see that the “= skandhas” or “monads of lesser experience” will return to it under Karma and= form the various “principles” of its Personality again.

 

The complex physical brain is a tool of the mind.  Science does not yet recognize the SOUL or the independe= nce of the INTELLECTUAL process from the limits of the brain.  The ancient science of the mind i= n India, as for instance the YOG SUTRAS OF PATANJALI, demonstrate this wisdom= is very old and very complete.  = (Mr. Judge published a translation of these along with some valuable comments.)<= o:p>

 

One = may say that every Mahatma and every Rishi has passed through the HUMAN STAGE a= nd has INDEPENDENTLY developed the mental faculties.  (see S.D. Vol. I pp 570-575)

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

Are the planetary logos Monads of a s= ort.

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= /p>

 

        &= nbsp;   DTB      Each Univer= se, each Galaxy, each solar system, and finally each Planet -- has an INTELLIGE= NCE that acts as the Agent for the Universal law of PROGRESS and EVOLUTION.  It assists and guides the creativ= e and the building aspect of evolution.  In terms of its wisdom, one may say that at a very long time ago it passed through the experiences of the human (Manasic) stage.  <= /p>

 

As y= ou correctly surmise each “Planetary Logos” has passed victoriously through = the “Man-Stage.”  It has assumed responsibility for= a far more complex and wider task.  But as a preliminary to successfully pass through the Man-stage, it has to beco= me completely harmless to all other beings and to itself..  It becomes an incarnation of virt= ue.  There can be no abuse of power, n= o selfishness, no favorites in such a condition.

 

The = word LOGOS translates WORD.  One c= annot speak unless one has thoughts.  Thoughts imply in such case a PLAN for a fresh manifestation min whi= ch all the old MONADS  ( Atma-Bu= ddhis entities) will resume their obligatory duties and return to the active path= of the Eternal Pilgrim -=3D which is the search for TRUTH.

 

By d= rawing attention to the LOGOS -- the MONAD that is within every Man (and other being) the possibility of being self-enlightened is made possible and clear.  It also serves as the base concep= t for Universal Brotherhood.

 

Look= on some of the answers given below as evidence of the cohesion and inter-dependence of Theosophical doctrines -- each one is essential to all = the rest.

 

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

The moon is the old earth?  Its = life atoms have left and re-gathered on our now earth.  

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

        &= nbsp;   DTB      That is gen= erally the teaching you will find in S.D. l. 152 to 202.<= /span>

Al t= he “life-atoms” are the imperishable and immortal MONADS&= nbsp; ( Jivas ).  They form = the basis for the whole of the Universal as well as our Earth’s  Evolutionary scheme.  They are the MIND (Soul)  in Man and as Patanjali says :  “For the sake of the Soul t= he Universe exists.” (see Patanjali YOGA APHORISMS , p. 25-6,  Book 1, verses 18 and 20-21)

 

The previous incarnation of our Earth and all the uncountable MONADS concerned = and involved in that evolution return together to for what we now call our EARTH.  The S.D. teaches that= the Moon will dissolve before the 7th ROUND&n= bsp; ( S.D. I 155 fn)

 

 

=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

Do the planetary logos, then have 7 planes or stages of existence.  How is it that
we have parent planetary logos that help our Earth.  Is this Saturn? <= o:p>

 

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

 

 

 = ;           DTB      Every being= in the Universe has seven aspects or “Principles.”  (see

S.D. I p. 157,  S.D. II 596,  and  KEY:   pp. 91-2, 134-6, 175-6)  In the VICE OF THE SILENCE, see 3rd Fragment (pp 52-3) w= here the 7 “Keys” are offered -- they are VIRTUES or the practice of= Theosophical and Universal truths that unlock the doors to our own inner selves (the ETE= RNAL MONAD).

 

The “Planetary Logos” tha= t assists and guides our Earth (and humanity) is hinted at in the S.D. (see Vol. 1, 207-2= 10, 272-9.)  It is to be clearly understood this is NOT A GOD nor can any ordinary “prayers” eve= r reach IT. It is given the name of THE GREAT SACRIFICE.  In ancient Hindu philosophy it was used as an image of un= iversal excellence:  the TRIMURTI, or= the spiritualized GUNAS.  Each has a specific d= uty in manvantara, and this dovetails with the other two in a perfect harmony of w= hat appear to us as discords.  It is ETE= RNAL and presides over the string of evolutionary sequences that relate (under KARMA= ) to this Earth and the beings (like you and me) which are connected with it..

 

The “Planetary Logos” is = a spiritual Being  (a Dhyani, a Maha-Rish= i) that is in effect the HIGHEST aspect of the MONAD in IT.  In us it is potential it may be called (in us) Atma-Budd= hi-Manas, and as this Immortal is present in each of us, we are automatically BROTHER= S to all others. If we are able to make our lives attuned to the high spiritual conditions that are implied in these concepts, we will have purified our ow= n personality (that is the Monads of lesser experience that are associated wi= th us) and we will be able to see SPIRITUAL BEINGS everywhere.  We will also realize our duty to = them is to assist them on their continuing progress.  They are in effect “our children.”

 

Such is the natural effect of self-co= ntrolled personal purification and evolution.  It is symbolized in the BHAGAVAD GITA by the victory of t= he virtuous Pandavas over the vicious Kauravas (Kurus).  Sri Krishna as portrayed there is symbolic of the “= ;Planetary Logos” of our Earth  an= d also of the UNIVERSAL LOGOS.  Truth a= nd goodness and virtue are all one.  We have to understand and adopt them into our own living.=

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 


      Again, I ask for your patience in my questioning, words are limiting
and I can only hope that through all these questions you can see where the =
blockage is.  These questions are coming from SD Vol. 1.  The Mah= atma Letters
and finally The Esoteric Tradition.  I read and reread and meditate an= d
reread and so on.  I have been reading the conversations here, and you= do
seem to clarify many points.  


      Any help will be appreciated.

Ananda

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>=3D=3D=3D Best wishes.<= font color=3Dnavy>

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>It will help if you are able to give = the actual pages you are studying.  Answers can be made more precise.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Dallas

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= font color=3Dnavy>


------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BA6F.7BB883C0-- From info@blavatskyarchives.com Sun Apr 01 07:30:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: info@blavatskyarchives.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 14:30:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 69713 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 14:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 14:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.san.yahoo.com) (209.132.1.35) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 15:31:54 -0000 Received: by mail01.san.yahoo.com (5.1.062) id 3AC0FEE40022BC0A; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:23:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3AC0FEE50000509A@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:23:26 -0700 In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Original Writings of Madame Blavatsky --Part I Reply-To: info@blavatskyarchives.com To: basic@blavatsky.net, "Compiler" Cc: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, dalval14@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Blavatsky Archives" Dear John DeSantis, Thanks for your very interesting email below. I will try to find time in the next day or so to answer some of your points. Daniel -- Original Message -- >Dear Daniel, > >I said nothing about the books, original or otherwise. I only responded >to >Dallas who responded to you, and replied to all of the e-mail addresses. >(A >copy of that e-mail of mine is found after this letter.) In the midst of >the >debate between the two of you, I simply took the opportunity to present >the >reader with the Theosophy as presented on the WisdomWorld.org web site. >My >whole mission, as my introductions on the web site show, is to present >Theosophy from THEOSOPHY magazine, which is published by THE THEOSOPHY >COMPANY, the publisher who you mostly were referring to. It is also my >mission, as my introductions clearly show, to try and "Unite" Theosophists >from all of the organizations to work (and write) together in reaching out >to humanity, irregardless of what went on in the past. I wanted to make >sure >that all readers, especially newcomers, have a chance to check out a large >sample of the high caliber of Theosophy which has been presented by >THEOSOPHY magazine for the last 89 years -- which clearly shows their >mission and style of pointing to the original teachers, HPB and WQJ. -- >and >that they will be part of this "United" group. They bounce everything they >write and collate off of what the original teachers taught -- not later >teachers in the midst of all the controversy and whatever distortions in >the >literature may have occurred, except when they talk of all that in many >ways. I presented three series of articles where they skillfully have done >this, and which are found below in the copy of my e-mail message. > >As far as answering the question that you laid to me about presenting >original material from the original teachers, yes, I'm all for that. As >far >as I can tell, it is THE THEOSOPHY COMPANY who, when in the early days of >the 20th Century the "original" teachings were not much in use, nor were >the >main original teachers, HPB and WQJ, featured. Even though you point out >to >Dallas some instances in the literature where it is not exactly so, and >which he has responded back to you on, was it or was it not the case that >it >was THE THEOSOPHY COMPANY who was responsible for bringing "The Secret >Doctrine", "Isis Unveiled", "The Key to Theosophy", and so on wherever it >may be the case, back on the scene in the middle of all that was going on >back then? I'm not a scholarly type of a person, so I know not all of the >many details a person like you may know. You seem to have originally >studied, as best that I can tell, based on how you point out a few things >to >Dallas about where it was not the case, 100%, through the Theosophical >Society, and Dallas, as well as I, mostly studied through the United Lodge >of Theosophists (ULT) system -- which use all the literature published by >THE THEOSOPHY COMPANY. > >This is a paragraph from my introduction on my WisdomWorld.org web site, >found on the main page. As you can see I too am concerned with readers >getting to the original material: > >"And let it also be known that the primary emphasis here in regards to >Theosophy is on its original, unaltered, and undistorted doctrines as >re-presented to humanity by H. P. Blavatsky and William Q. Judge, who both >worked closely with the world-wide fraternity of Great Adepts from every >land: Those Who Know." > >But I am mostly concerned with present-day humanity, besides having access >to the original literature, having access to a "Team" of present-day >"United" Theosophists who can very wisely, knowledgeably, and skillfully >interact with humanity on every important subject under the sun. (Please >carefully read my "Introductions" to both the WisdomWorld.org site itself, >and the book on the site, to see what I mean.) I feel if this kind of comi= ng >together is not done by wise and knowledgeable Theosophists, from all >organizations, and from none, in close association, of course, with the >"ORIGINAL" Theosophical literature, and our Movement stays fractured, and >endlessly arguing and fighting over what went on way back when (even thoug= h >all this history has its place), we are unwisely doing the wrong thing, >overall, in general, to the worldwide fraternity of Adepts, to their direc= t >agents, HPB and WQJ, and to humanity as a whole. > >So I sincerely ask you, since I am not very skilled at making my case to >Theosophists, might you, besides doing your fine and very skillful mission >of presenting what you do about all that rare and hard to find material, >consider playing a major roll in helping our Theosophical Movement to come >together in some kind of a major way, as I present it, just for starters, >on >the WisdomWorld.org web site in my Introductions (amateurish as I do it!)? >You present many letters and writings of many people from the early days, >who worked hard for the Theosophical Cause, but I'm not sure if you, with >all the original stuff you have gathered and are presenting, have also >pointed out where many of them later went astray, if that be the case, as >presented in many articles and series of article in THEOSOPHY magazine >through the years. If I am wrong, please point that out. If not, and you >have not focused on any of that, you may want to add the three series of >articles about the ins and outs of what went on back in the early days (they >are found below), on to your long list of things for your readers to check >out. This is what THE THEOSOPHY COMPANY has done in the three series, and >many other writings in THEOSOPHY magazine. Of course if they are not >accurate in what they point out, you may want to shed your own light on >where you see they may be in error. But to get back to what I consider most >important: > >I humbly suggest that if you and others, so much more skilled and in conta= ct >with so many more Theosophists from many organizations, than I am, one who >has kind of turned into a recluse, could pull together a "United Team", >that >presents endless writings dealing with all that affects humanity today, >and >on into the future, in a new publication, whatever it may be named (even >if >just on the web, for starters), that every web site within the Theosophica= l >arena should put a link to this same one site, on their own sites. Even >though each group continues doing whatever it does, in whatever >publications, and in whatever ways, same as now, if each also had a link >to >this "United" publication, we may, as a Movement, begin to do better among >ourselves and in catching the attention of humanity, and hopefully, the >attention of the Adepts themselves, to a point, after a while, where they >might even begin to be impressed enough with our "United" action to send >in >articles and series of articles, because we are finally working together, >in >the way they probably hope we would and should. > >Sorry for rambling, but I've been wanting to say something like this >publicly to all Theosophists for some time now, but knew not how, other >than >what I have written in my introductions to the WisdomWorld.org web site. >Hopefully you and others who read this will pass it along to others within >our overall Movement. > >Daniel, please remember that I'm just a Theosophical "generalist", and am >not much on details the way you and people like Dallas are, so I must admi= t >that I don't have much more to add. I'm just a dummy, you could say, who >happens to have a large vision for our Movement, which I'm weak in >skillfully presenting, as this letter clearly shows. But I have written >it >in the hopes of inspiring you and other wise and skilled Theosophists to >maybe come togeter and do something like I have long envisioned for our >somewhat broken and somewhat unfriendly Theosophical groups. > >My e-mail that caused you to address me as well as Dallas is below. > >Fraternally, > >John DeSantis >(Compiler) >------- > > Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Volume III of the Secret Doctrine, etc. > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:32:08 -0500 > From: Compiler >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > CC: AA-B-Basic , > Daniel Caldwel > >For all those interested, the high caliber of the work of THE THEOSOPHY >COMPANY's magazine, entitled "THEOSOPHY", is steadily being presented on >the >WisdomWorld.org web site. What is found below are the links to the key >sections on the site -- with links to a paticular section which offers some >important internal history, listed first: > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > SOME OF THE HISTORICAL INTERNAL PROBLEMS OF THE > MODERN THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT ITSELF -- SINCE 1875 > >Compiler's note: The articles presented in this section are offered so that >all present-day Theosophists, from all organizations, and from none, can >understand, along with all of humanity, some of this history -- so as to >learn from it and then put it aside from a practical working-together poin= t >of view. Why? So that the wisest and most knowledgeable members from withi= n >all of the groups can now come together and present a "United" front of >pure, undistorted, and undiluted Theosophy to humanity that can always hold >its own under the welcomed and tough scrutiny and investigation of all >scientists, scholars, teachers, philosophers, thinkers, and religionists >of >this world. How? In two new publications, for starters, as proposed in the >right-hand column of the "Main Page" and in the continuing "Introductory >Brochure" link. Both links are found at the bottom of every page on this >web >site. > >It is highly recommended that you read these three very important series >of >articles in the Sequence presented in order to get the best and most >accurate picture of this history as it unfolds chronologically: > >The Theosophical Movement (34-part series) (January 1920, to October 1922)= : >http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/TheTheosophicalMovement-Series/index= .html > >The Rising Cycle (13-part series) (October 1926, to October 1927): >http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/theosophicalmovement/index.html > >Aftermath (10-part series) (January 1935, to October 1935): >http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/AFTERMATH-10-PartSeries/index.html > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >The above section about the Theosophical Movement is on this INDEX page, >which contains many other sections and series of articles: >http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html > >John DeSantis >(Compiler) >------- > >You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: >http://www.wisdomworld.org/index.html > >------- > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >dalval14@earthlink.net wrote: > >[Note: I cut it off here, but all of the messages by Dallas and you were >attached when I originally posted it.] >------- > >Blavatsky Archives wrote: > >> Dear Dallas and John (Compiler), >> >> Thank you for your emails concerning >> HPB's original writings. >> >> Let me clearly state my view about >> HPB's original books and articles. >> >> When I study HPB's writings I prefer >> to read her original writings as they >> were published during her lifetime. >> >> The main reason for this is that after >> HPB's death various persons have edited >> her writings making various changes, deletions >> and additions. Some of the changes have been >> minor and trivial. But some of the changes >> have been major and some of these changes >> and "corrections" have actually been wrong. >> The changes are usually not noted therefore >> the reader of these new editions has no easy >> way to know what has been changed. >> >> Dallas, I believe you have expressed a similar >> view in the past. John, I don't know your view >> of this subject. >> >> But I ask both of you: >> >> Which would you honestly prefer: (1) a photographic >> facsimile of one of HPB's originals writings as it >> was published during her lifetime or (2) a later >> edition of her book where her text has been edited, either >> by deletions, changes or additions? >> >> For example, take ISIS UNVEILED, I prefer to use the >> photographic facsimile of the original edition >> reprinted by the Theosophy Company. By saying that, >> I don't mean that the editions currently published >> by Theosophical University Press or Theosophical Publishing >> house are worthless. I ALSO use those editions for various >> purposes but I prefer using the photographic facsimile >> of the original for my primary study of that text. >> >> The same applies to THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE. I prefer to >> use as my primary source the photographic facsimile of >> the VOICE published by Kessinger. The other editions of the >> VOICE published by Theosophy Company, Theosophical Publishing >> House and Theosophical University Press also have value but they >> are not photographic facsimiles of the original 1889 edition. >> >> I could go down the whole list of HPB's works. >> >> So if you had your choice, what edition (original) or (later edited) >> (see above) would the two of you choose? >> >> Daniel >> >> --------------------------------------- >> Daniel H. Caldwell >> info@blavatskyarchives.com >> --------------------------------------- >> BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES >> http://blavatskyarchives.com >> Publishes rare & hard-to-find source >> documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. >> --------------------------------------- >> SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE >> http://blavatsky.cc >> --------------------------------------- >> ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY >> http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm >> This new book contains a unique collection of >> rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. >> --------------------------------------- >> Theosophyonthe.NET >> http://theosophyonthe.net >> Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy >> --------------------------------------- >> You can always access our main site >> BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing >> into the URL address bar the following >> 6 characters: hpb.cc >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= / > > >--- >Current topic is at=20 >http://www.blavatsky.net/talk/bnbasic/basicSyllabus.htm >You are currently subscribed to bn-basic as: [info@blavatskyarchives.com] >To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-basic-6524624C@lists.lyri= s.net > --------------------------------------- Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com --------------------------------------- BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com Publishes rare & hard-to-find source=20 documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. --------------------------------------- SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE http://blavatsky.cc --------------------------------------- ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm This new book contains a unique collection of=20 rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. --------------------------------------- Theosophyonthe.NET http://theosophyonthe.net Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy --------------------------------------- You can always access our main site=20 BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing=20 into the URL address bar the following=20 6 characters: hpb.cc From parkplace3072@juno.com Sun Apr 01 08:08:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: parkplace3072@juno.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 15:08:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 50973 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 15:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 15:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m11.jersey.juno.com) (64.136.16.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 16:09:19 -0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"FTOux3pC9KmhPWMdHKQ5w5oYe1A8NWvjrxlGB7rGuW723VEmXSHHuQ=="> Received: (from parkplace3072@juno.com) by m11.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id FZXU8FLS; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 11:07:39 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 11:06:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Original Writings of Madame Blavatsky --Part I Message-ID: <20010401.110636.-868333.0.parkplace3072@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: parkplace3072@juno.com Hi John, You may consider yourself a generalist, but to my mind it is persons as yourself that institute a sense of continuity, based on the foundations of the movement, that we humbly seek, without much addition and further necessity for discourse, in our endeavor to advance our knowledge. Thank you, ak From info@blavatskyarchives.com Sun Apr 01 10:24:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: info@blavatskyarchives.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 17:24:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 95236 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 17:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 17:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.san.yahoo.com) (209.132.1.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 17:24:48 -0000 Received: by mail01.san.yahoo.com (5.1.062) id 3AC0FEE400237E4D; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:18:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3AC0FEE500005199@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:18:05 -0700 Subject: Additions to BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES Reply-To: info@blavatskyarchives.com To: info@blavatskyarchives.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Blavatsky Archives" Five more items have just been added to the BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES=20 at http://www.blavatskyarchives.com (1) "Interview with Mr. W.B. Yeats"=20 by Daniel Nicol Dunlop.=20=20 [First published in "The Irish Theosophist"=20 (Dublin, Ireland) November 15, 1893,=20 pp. 147-149.] (2) "Some Modern Occultists:=20=20 Madame Blavatsky, Founder of the=20 Theosophical Society"=20 by Cheiro [Louis Hamon]=20=20 [First published in "Mysteries and=20 Romances of the World's Greatest=20 Occultists by Cheiro, London,=20 Herbert Jenkins, 1935, Chapter XIV,=20 pp. 170-180.] (3) "The Purchase of Adyar Headquarters:=20=20 A Reminiscence of H.P.B."=20 by G. Soobiah Chetty.=20=20=20 [First published in "The Theosophist"=20 (Adyar, Madras, India) March 1926,=20 pp. 741-747.] (4) "With H.P.B. in the Seventies"=20 by A.L.P.=20=20 [First published in "Theosophy"=20 (New York) August 1896, pp. 150-153.] (5) "The Sources of Madame=20 Blavatsky's Writings"=20 by William Emmette Coleman.=20=20 [First published in "A Modern Priestess=20 of Isis" by Vsevolod Sergyeevich Solovyoff,=20 London, Longmans, Green, and Co., 1895,=20 Appendix C, pp. 353-366.] All of this material can be found in the "New Items" section at=20 http://www.blavatskyarchives.com Daniel --------------------------------------- Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com --------------------------------------- BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com Publishes rare & hard-to-find source=20 documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. --------------------------------------- SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE http://blavatsky.cc --------------------------------------- ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm This new book contains a unique collection of=20 rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. --------------------------------------- Theosophyonthe.NET http://theosophyonthe.net Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy --------------------------------------- You can always access our main site=20 BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing=20 into the URL address bar the following=20 6 characters: hpb.cc From ringding@blinx.de Sun Apr 01 12:16:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@blinx.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 1 Apr 2001 19:16:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 72626 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 19:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2001 19:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.blinx.de) (194.115.26.35) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 19:16:48 -0000 Received: (from amavis@localhost) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f31JGjm03468 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:16:45 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: amavis set sender to using -f X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed from queue /var/spool/mqueue X-Authentication-Warning: mail.blinx.de: Processed by amavis with -C /etc/sendmail.orig.cf Received: from FrankReitemeyer (cppp-225.blinx.de [62.96.222.225]) by mail.blinx.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id f31JGhn03457 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:16:43 +0200 Message-ID: <002401c0bae0$6ae35d60$e1de603e@FrankReitemeyer> To: References: <82.8f46e93.27f652b0@aol.com> Subject: Re: Theos-World A question for other seekers Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:30:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0BAD1.6A3BA980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-9 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0BAD1.6A3BA980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Ananda, that is a very good point. Yes of course do higher entities influence the lesser beings with that what= they do conscious as well as unconcious as they are imperfect beeings - o= n their plane ! - as we humans are imperfect on our human plane. There is n= o begin and no end in the hierarchy of conciousness. All perfection is limi= ted to the ring-pass-not which is always the end of the plane in which a be= ing is evolving resp. has its evolutionary development. Is that OK with you? Otherwise coming back to it. Frank Dear Sirs,=20 I have a question. I am currently reading Vol 1 of Puruckers' The= =20 Esoteric Tradition, Vol. 1 the chapter on Evolving Souls. In conjunction= I=20 am also reading SD Volume 1 around page 200.=20 As I am trying to understand what I am reading I think I am being=20 taught that all creation is in different states of evolving and re-evolvi= ng?=20=20=20 I hope this is correct, or as much as you may know it is correct. We, as= =20 humans, in our every day life make decisions that influence others, somet= imes=20 for the good sometimes not.=20=20=20 We are imperfect and therefor we do not always help people along th= e=20 right path, though I would think that even a wrong turn is a right one if= =20 seen correctly. Lord, this is hard to ask. Words are so limiting!!=20 Okay, here goes; Would the higher entites, say planetary logos bein= g=20 an imperfect evolving entity, influence the lesser beings as we do? I gu= ess=20 what I am really asking, and try not to pick it apart with semantics plea= se!,=20 Do they make mistakes that influence lesser beings?=20=20=20 I am not really sure if I would believe that anyone on our plane wo= uld=20 truely know this, but I would be really interested in any comments or=20 anything anyone else has read that might shed some "light" on the idea.=20 I would thank you for your time on this perplexing stumbling block I have= =20 encountered. I think I am trying to put into perspective words like God,= =20 Divinity, and such. Thank you=20 Ananda=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0BAD1.6A3BA980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Ananda, that is a very good point.
Yes of course do higher entities influence= the=20 lesser beings with that what they do conscious as well as unconcious as the= y are=20 imperfect beeings  - on their plane ! - as we humans are imperfect on = our=20 human plane. There is no begin and no end in the hierarchy of conciousness.= All=20 perfection is limited to the ring-pass-not which is always the end of the p= lane=20 in which a being is evolving resp. has its evolutionary=20 development.
Is that OK with you? Otherwise coming back= to=20 it.
Frank
Dear Sirs,=20
      I have a question.  I am=20 currently reading Vol 1 of Puruckers' The
Esoteric Tradition, Vol. 1 = the=20 chapter on Evolving Souls.  In conjunction I
am also reading SD= =20 Volume 1 around page 200.
      As I am= =20 trying to understand what I am reading I think I am being
taught that= all=20 creation is in different states of evolving and re-evolving?  
I= hope=20 this is correct, or as much as you may know it is correct.  We, as=20
humans, in our every day life make decisions that influence others,=20 sometimes
for the good sometimes not.  =20
      We are imperfect and therefor we = do=20 not always help people along the
right path, though I would think tha= t=20 even a wrong turn is a right one if
seen correctly.  Lord, this = is=20 hard to ask.  Words are so limiting!!=20
      Okay, here goes; Would the higher= =20 entites, say planetary logos being
an imperfect evolving entity, infl= uence=20 the lesser beings as we do?  I guess
what I am really asking, an= d try=20 not to pick it apart with semantics please!,
Do they make mistakes th= at=20 influence lesser beings?  
      I= am=20 not really sure if I would believe that anyone on our plane would
tru= ely=20 know this, but I would be really interested in any comments or
anythi= ng=20 anyone else has read that might shed some "light" on the idea.
I woul= d=20 thank you for your time on this perplexing stumbling block I have=20
encountered.  I think I am trying to put into perspective words = like=20 God,
Divinity, and such.  Thank you
Ananda=20
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0BAD1.6A3BA980-- From info@blavatskyarchives.com Mon Apr 02 08:54:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: info@blavatskyarchives.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 15:54:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 90273 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 15:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 15:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.san.yahoo.com) (209.132.1.35) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 15:54:52 -0000 Received: by mail01.san.yahoo.com (5.1.062) id 3AC0FEE4002C78E8; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:47:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3AC0FEE500005E06@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:47:29 -0700 Subject: Nisi Kanta Chattopadhyana Reply-To: info@blavatskyarchives.com To: "Stubbs, Steve" Cc: "Muehlegger, Brigitte " , "Theos Talk" , "Theos-L" , "Blavatsky_Study" , "Universal Seekers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Blavatsky Archives" Steve Stubbs writes: "C.C. Massey acquired evidence that 'Koot Hoomi' was really Nisi Kanta Chat= topadhyana. Theosophists have raised some interesting objections to that identificatio= n, but I think Massey was right. His arguments have considerable weight, and it makes sense that early Theosophists would have tried to muddy the water since the real identity of KH was supposed to be a 'secret.' The fact that there are difficulties does not therefore persuade me that the identificati= on is incorrect. Nisi Kanta Chattpadhyana was a real man who contributed to Theosophical publications under his real name as well as under the pseudony= m 'Koot Hoomi.'" http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a7502210/sstubbs.html Steve, my first question to you about this identification is: Do you believe that "Koot Hoomi" was at Amritsar on or about October 29, 1880?=20 >From Mahatma Letter No. 4 (2nd ed.), I quote Koot Hoomi's words: "I had come for a few days, but now find that I myself cannot endure for any length of time the stifling magnetism even of my own countrymen. I have seen some of our proud old Sikhs drunk and staggering over the marble pavem= ent of their sacred Temple. I have heard an English-speaking Vakil declaim agai= nst Yog Vidya and Theosophy, as a delusion and a lie, declaring that English Science had emancipated them from such "degrading superstitions," and sayin= g that it was an insult to India to maintain that the dirty Yogees and Sunnya= sis knew anything about the mysteries of nature; or that any living man can or ever could perform any phenomena! I turn my face homeward to-morrow." Daniel --------------------------------------- Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com --------------------------------------- BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com Publishes rare & hard-to-find source=20 documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. --------------------------------------- SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE http://blavatsky.cc --------------------------------------- ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm This new book contains a unique collection of=20 rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. --------------------------------------- Theosophyonthe.NET http://theosophyonthe.net Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy --------------------------------------- You can always access our main site=20 BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing=20 into the URL address bar the following=20 6 characters: hpb.cc From info@blavatskyarchives.com Mon Apr 02 10:46:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: info@blavatskyarchives.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 17:46:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 56145 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 17:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 17:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail01.san.yahoo.com) (209.132.1.35) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 18:47:46 -0000 Received: by mail01.san.yahoo.com (5.1.062) id 3AC0FEE4002DAC8C; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:35:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3AC0FEE500006106@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:35:36 -0700 Subject: Some of the Works of Nisikanta Chattopadhyaya (1852-1910), Reply-To: info@blavatskyarchives.com To: "Stubbs, Steve" Cc: "Muehlegger, Brigitte " , "Blavatsky_Study" , "Theos Talk" , "Theos-L" , "Universal Seekers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Blavatsky Archives" [ROUGH DRAFT] A List of Some of the Works of Nisikanta Chattopadhyaya (1852-1910), Principal, Hyderabad College, and Professor of History in the Maharajah's College, Mysore (1) The Yatras; or, the Popular Dramas of Bengal. Trubner & Co: London, 1882 Based on "Dissertation written for the degree of doctor of philosophy and presented to the Philosophical Faculty of the University of Zurich." (?) (2) Buddhismus und Christenthum: Mit einem Anhang =FCber das Nirv=E2na. Z=FCrich: Rudolph & Klemm, 1882 (3) Indische Essays Z=FCrich: Rudolphi & Klemm, 1883 (4) "The Destiny of Man" Lucifer (London) January 1893, pp. 44 et seq. (5) Three Lectures: The Reminiscences of the German University Life, The True Theosophist and The Mricchakatikam, or, The toy Cart. Bombay: Education Society's Steam Press, 1895 (6) Why Have I Accepted Islam Introduction by Hasanuddin Ahmad. Chicago, Illinois: Kazi Publications, reprinted 1980, 1997. [A lecture delivered on August 26, 1904.] (7) "Zoroastrianism" The Theosophist (Adyar, Madras, India), December 1906, pp. 203 et seq. (8) A Lecture on Zoroastrianism. Madras: The Theosophist Office, 1906. --------------------------------------- Daniel H. Caldwell info@blavatskyarchives.com --------------------------------------- BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES http://blavatskyarchives.com Publishes rare & hard-to-find source=20 documents on Madame H.P. Blavatsky. --------------------------------------- SELECTED THEOSOPHICAL BOOKS FOR SALE http://blavatsky.cc --------------------------------------- ESOTERIC WORLD OF MADAME BLAVATSKY http://blavatskyarchives.com/esotericworld.htm This new book contains a unique collection of=20 rare reminiscences of H.P. Blavatsky's life. --------------------------------------- Theosophyonthe.NET http://theosophyonthe.net Easy Net Access to the Classics of Theosophy --------------------------------------- You can always access our main site=20 BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES by simply typing=20 into the URL address bar the following=20 6 characters: hpb.cc From AnandaYoga@aol.com Mon Apr 02 14:57:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandaYoga@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 21:57:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 85829 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 21:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 21:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pippin.imagiware.com) (205.254.196.9) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 21:56:27 -0000 Received: from imo-r11.mx.aol.com (imo-r11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25383 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:57:28 -0500 Received: from AnandaYoga@aol.com by imo-r11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id s.49.9aaac28 (4399) for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49.9aaac28.27fa4f58@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:55:36 EDT Subject: Monadic Rays and their personalities To: theos-talk@theosophy.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_49.9aaac28.27fa4f58_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 From: AnandaYoga@aol.com --part1_49.9aaac28.27fa4f58_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs, Again, I would like to trouble you with a question. Monads create personalities, (us?) to experience learning on a material level? I sort of understand that at this point the spirit can come no further in its evolution and must create the vehicle. If many of the personalities are not SELF consious, is this true on the Monadic level. Are there Gods, Devas, etc. that are not aware of Atma? Also, do Monads in their Ray of creation produce more than one personality at a time? This would seem to be to me more efficient. Do we then meet personalities of the same ray. I believe I had read some of this from A. Bailey. Thanks so much for trying to bring "light" to my confusion. These thoughts go round and round and they need an order to them. I guess I am like Mr. Sinnett., I wish I could understand it all today. One last question when Monads become men-minds (manasa) are we Self-guided or is this too only part of our (human) evolution. I am trying to decide if some of my decsions are not a selfish game that I delude myself into thinking that I am really making to help others. We are our worst enemy. Ananda --part1_49.9aaac28.27fa4f58_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs,
      Again, I would like to trouble you with a question.  Monads create
personalities, (us?) to experience learning on a material level?  I sort of
understand that at this point the spirit can come no further in its evolution
and must create the vehicle.  If many of the personalities are not SELF
consious, is this true on the Monadic level.  Are there Gods, Devas, etc.
that are not aware of Atma?  Also, do Monads in their Ray of creation produce
more than one personality at a time?  This would seem to be to me more
efficient. Do we then meet personalities of the same ray.  I believe I had
read some of this from A. Bailey.  
      Thanks so much for trying to bring "light" to my confusion.  These
thoughts go round and round and they need an order to them.  I guess I am
like Mr. Sinnett., I wish I could understand it all today.  
      One last question when Monads become men-minds (manasa) are we
Self-guided or is this too only part of our (human) evolution.  I am trying
to decide if some of my decsions are not a selfish game that I delude myself
into thinking that I am really making to help others.  We are our worst
enemy.  
Ananda --part1_49.9aaac28.27fa4f58_boundary-- From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Apr 02 15:28:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 22:28:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 71586 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 22:28:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 22:28:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net) (207.217.120.62) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 22:28:31 -0000 Received: from earthlink (pool1197.cvx19-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.248.177]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06698; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:28:17 -0700 (PDT) To: "Theosophy Study List" Subject: RE: Manasic aspects? GAMES ? Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:26:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BB89.53E98360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: From: dalval14@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BB89.53E98360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Monday, April 02, 2001 Dear M------, As I see it, the business of living is serious and not games. From our infancy our attention has been drawn to what our teachers consider fundamental ideas. They hope we will adopt them. Sometimes they do not explain them. As we grow up the need of EXPLANATION in some minds (not all) becomes a paramount necessity. We then see individuals who review their memories, re-study their education and constantly ask questions of each other with a view to securing a consensus. How do we know when we are right? Do we make use of information already verified ? In this instance you start out questioning the possibility of games. In a Universe of laws and cooperation “games” are played by those who have leisure. 1. Where was leisure secured? Is it of benefit to all, or only to one or a few? 2. Is there a prototype or a paradigm in the Universe that employs “leisure?” 3. What would be the effect if Nature withdrew her “support /” in order to rest? 4. How is it that we “think” of leisure? Are any desires attached to that kind of thought? Are they selfishly personal or are they impersonally universal? 5. What do we already know (and are sure of) ? Reviewing Theosophical doctrines I would say: 1. “Manas” is MIND -- and it acquires the designation of “Higher” or “Lower” only when it is allied to, or used by, one or the other to two opposed “principles” in a human. It is these which are opposed to each other, as Wisdom (Buddhi) is opposed to ignorance and folly (Kama) 2. The Mind ( Manas ) per se is neutral. It is a faculty or a tool. It is used by the REAL MAN ( the MONAD in incarnation -- you and me, here and now) to remember, to prepare potential scenarios (and their results) and to serve as a basis for any and all acts, thoughts, deeds, and words. 3. Briefly stated the difference between WISDOM and FOLLY is a clear knowledge of the Universal LAWS that prevail, interpenetrate and support all things. Thus you have : 1. Wisdom, based on the essential nature of universality and eternity, and a striving to live in cooperation with Universal LAW [KARMA] . And, 2. Folly, based on ignorance, selfishness, and desires, the result of which are in opposition to universal and impartial LAW. One might say that the “fool” refuses to consider the existence of LAW as an essential to all life. He views himself as a pre-eminence and fails to perceive that the vast and impartial cooperative urge of Nature is supporting his continued living. In its educative sense the Nature then acts through Karma to show him the effect of selfish choosing. He becomes the target of his own errors and the painful follies of selfish choice. {This fact is the basis for religions in which priests pretend to be able to act as intercessory wit a personal God who might arrange to have the effects mitigated or removed. The remaining problem which is not addressed is the compensation to the victims. That remains to be arranged for } 4. Any person (who by definition is a LIVING CONSCIOUSNESS, an IMMORTAL ENTITY) lives in the world of his PRESENT DESIRES, and employs his mind to fabricate “impossible castles in Spain.” These delusions are also illusions, and have no continued validity. Such a person opposes the supportive and cooperative orderliness of the World and Universe. He argues without sound basis, supposes on wrong premises, and creates confusion among the unwary. His work is to destroy order whenever possible. 5. The Person who lives in WISDOM is aware of all the Facts, fundamentals and Laws of this Universe. He bases his choices on this knowledge and practices generosity, rectitude and fair dealing with everyone. He cooperates with Nature (the Universe.) He is one of Nature’s “Agents,” and is continually “constructive.’ By nature he creates “order” out of “chaos” and seeks to show others how they can also do this. 6. In the GENERAL PROGRAM OF EVOLUTION (as Theosophy describes it) the MONAD (or immortal “life-unit”) passes over long aeons securing first-hand experience, by passing through all the conditions offered by Nature -- so that it acquires a memory of those -- which is impacted eternally in its own consciousness. Thus it passes through the conditions of embodiment in a form in, successively, mineral, vegetable, and animal stages of form and cooperative experience. 7. It (the indestructible Center of CONSCIOUSNESS: the MONAD) then proceeds to the next step -- into a HUMAN BODY -- This physical form is far in advance of the animal body as to its sensitivity and capacities. There the Mind becomes independently active and learns under the operations of KARMA, the power of CHOICE. As I see it, our living here and now is serious business and not frivolity. One has to learn and grasp the fundamentals of life instead of the superficialities of doubt, and suppose. Essentially, one has to learn to become a UNIVERSAL MAN-MIND, a being who perceives around him the reign of universal Brotherhood. In other words one ought to be able to answer one’s own questions. Best wishes, Dallas ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: m [mailto:mhart@idirect.ca] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:36 AM To: Theosophy Subject: Manasic aspects? On the subject of "higher" and "lower" Manas, some (interesting?) speculation comes to mind that has to do with what we (Manasic types) call "games": I wonder what the significance of games, in broader terms, might be, say, "more-realistically" thought of as being if viewed from a somewhat more-universal (and even Theosophic?) perspective?: "Theosophy" would seem to suggest (to me, at any rate, as I currently tend to interpret the word) that our purpose here on earth is one of acquiring (among other things?) experience, learning, and Self-discovery, the while dealing with an environment that is Mayavic in essence: as though we're really playing some kind of Realistic/Significant Game, in a sense (because of our "unreal", or Mayavic, Scenario). Of course if our Manasic Experience as a whole is seen as "Real" and "Crucial" in some theosophic (Realistic) sense, than (likely?) the reference to it as having a "game"-like aspect might be seen (by some?) as irrelevant (even irreverant?) in essence: I would tend to agree that there would seem to be that aspect to our CHOICE of perception: that we can freely choose to emphasise (say?) the "seeming unreality" of our Experience, (in whatever way), or (at times, as when "theosophically/metaphysically inclined"?) we might PREFER to be "more-realistic" about our "earthly" Situation. At any rate the aspect of Choice would seem particularly significant in our Situation here: That is, what might be important, in Real-enough terms, and what might not be important-enough, in Real-enough terms, would seem to be the constant and Significant question for us Manasic types, day in and day out, in essense ("to be or not to be", to quote Shakespeare in a broader sense?). So where aspects of "unreal gaming" are emphasised in one's attitude in favor of emphasis on effort toward at least attempting (to whatever extent one might be "realistically" capable of) to address issues of Relevance (as in Theosophic terms), that would seem to be the crucial cross-roads in determing whether one is inclined to face "higher" or "lower" Manasic facets of one's reality? Since those "higher" and "lower" Manasic aspects can be seen "very differently" from various different perspectives and levels of Evolution, obviously one would have to take those "differences" into some sort of personally-relevant meaningful/Meaningful account: Apparently Nature means business, offering no easy short-cuts on the Way. And as the recent posts about Nirvanic experiences would seem to suggest, there would not seem to be a Way Out in any kind of Realistic sense, (aside from the intermediate/Intermediate options)? So "Participation" would seem to be the name of the game around here, (at least one name?), for better or worse, whether we like it or not. Something like that, maybe? Mauri P.S. --- Not that I don't mean good wishes, basically---it's just that I wonder about who is saying what and where and how (more-specifically!). Come to think of it, I wonder if conveying "good wishes" is much like saying "good luck"? And "good luck" brings to mind a saying in show biz: "break a leg." So many choices and interpretations! I wonder if saying "break a leg" is somehow more-relevant/helpful in some situations? But since Theosophic things would seem . . . er, more "metaphysical" (?), (and somewhat less leg-related, possibly?), I wonder if theosophists might reasonably offer encouragement to each other by saying something about, say, breaking one's head, for example? No? Not really? (Extensions of which kind of thinking might bring to mind some of the "less-wanted" contributors to Theos-1, etc?---if that's a related matter?) --- You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: dalval14@earthlink.net List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-theos-l-13148L@list.vnet.net ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BB89.53E98360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Monday, April 02, 2001<= /span>