From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 1 01:46:55 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id BAA11648 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 01:35:44 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <386DABA2.841A05B7@focusonit.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:54:18 +0530 From: Manjusha Varma X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@theosophy.com" Subject: Theos-World [Fwd: Happy New Year] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F74FFBA62EEA2DE107A253B6" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F74FFBA62EEA2DE107A253B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------F74FFBA62EEA2DE107A253B6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <386D9DFA.F3B91373@focusonit.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 11:56:03 +0530 From: Manjusha Varma X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: editor@theosophy.com Subject: Happy New Year Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To the editor,

Wish you a very happy, prosperous and spiritually enlightening and uplifting new year. May the millenium see more souls appreciating and understanding the work of the theosophical society.

Regards and warm wishes,
Manjusha --------------F74FFBA62EEA2DE107A253B6-- -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 1 01:54:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id BAA11733 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 01:38:02 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <386DAC33.F0383A7C@focusonit.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:56:44 +0530 From: Manjusha Varma X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@theosophy.com" Subject: Theos-World [Fwd: ]happy new year Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E9836E83C98FF4B7A6BC530D" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9836E83C98FF4B7A6BC530D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E9836E83C98FF4B7A6BC530D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <386DA5E1.A9ADC745@focusonit.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:29:45 +0530 From: Manjusha Varma X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@theosophy.com" Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all the Theos-talkers,

Wishing you all a very very happy new year and and a wonderful millenium that brings spiritual upliftment and evolvement and a better understanding of theosophical matters.

Hope this year sees many more dicussions on the list and that many more subscribe to it.

With best wishes and regards to all,

Manjusha Varma --------------E9836E83C98FF4B7A6BC530D-- -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 02:29:59 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id CAA00927 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 02:00:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <386EF97B.6731C481@lainet.com> Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 00:08:46 -0700 From: Martin Leiderman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Theos-World Happy New Year to All References: <0.bf71bca.259c3137@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Dear fellow theosophists, Happy New Year 2000 and thereafter. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Eldon for the great work of managing the mailing list and the e-magazine ‘theos-world.’ It is nice to have an avenue to share theosophy, even though most of us just read the posts, which is OK too. I would like to thank Dallas for the immense amount of research information and personal wisdom he shares constantly with us, unconditionally, and sometimes for people who attack him for the very act of keeping the focus on theosophical literature. To Daniel, for keeping us informed on the Theosophical Movement and its roots. Let’s face it, being theosophist also means, I think, knowing about its history. The point is ‘there’ in its history is where we find its purposes, its ups and downs ( how difficult is to deal with humans), how theosophy is reflected in the world. Non theosophists’ comments and critics are gems too. To Nicholas W. for the few posts that were reminders to experience the ‘Emptiness’ which is more important than its description and study. Perhaps only a "few real mystics in the Theosophical Society" will understand and appreciate his comments and are on the steps of the Path "beyond which stretch the shoreless water of Akshara, the indestructible Fount of Omniscience." Also to Dara for offering her home, year after year, for theosophical studies and gatherings, keeping the link alive. To Wes A. for accepting the task of sharing theosophy in uncharted waters. Good luck my brother. To all of you who share with your keyboards, thoughts and hearts…Theosophy is greater than books and email. Theosophy is found everywhere someone practices theosophy. As Leon M. expressed recently in, the mere fact that HPB issued the last 2 objects to the world set in motion the keynote for scientific investigation in all fields. I hope this year and the many to come will bring to us the spirit of sharing theosophy without the fanaticism that separates; that we may truly discover and share the essence all religions, not in words but as a direct apprehension of the great Truth. Theosophy is not better than … nor greater than …, because Theosophy is the accumulated wisdom gathered by the Great Brotherhood of Adepts and does not mix with the gross or exoteric forms of religions. But all of us regardless of the chosen path or yoga need to move from words to experiencing directly the mystical, non-dual Atman (Higher Self), or Brahman (be it of as a theophanic experience, or Theos with attributes), or Emptiness (attributeless All or Void). >From my heart: may Love, Compassion and Goodness reign in your heart, Martin In west Los Angeles -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 13:49:58 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id NAA21178 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:30:16 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-ID: <003401bf555f$09bd05a0$210ac5a9@azstarnet.com> From: "D.Caldwell/M.Graye" To: "Caldwell, Daniel H." Subject: Theos-World Fragments of Occult Truth, No. 1, by A.O. Hume added to THE BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:21:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/index.htm I've just added to our archives the following item: Fragments of Occult Truth, No. 1, by A.O. Hume [Reprinted from The Theosophist, October 1881, pp. 17-22.] This article written by A.O. Hume is based upon teachings he received from H.P. Blavatsky and Mahatma Koot Hoomi. This is the first article in modern Theosophical literature to set forth the sevenfold constitution of a human being. Fragments 2 and 3 also by Hume will be added later today. Daniel H. Caldwell BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/index.htm -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 15:40:24 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id PAA31917 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:11:14 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Happy New Year to All Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 13:06:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01bf5565$3468bb40$590e75ce@nwc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <386EF97B.6731C481@lainet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Dear Martin Knowing you and your good work I am glad to be of help any time. But do not please give me any position or anything else than that of a student. it is THEOSOPHY that is important. for all of us. best wishes and keep up your good work. Dal ========================= dalval@nwc.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Martin Leiderman Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:09 PM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Theos-World Happy New Year to All Dear fellow theosophists, Happy New Year 2000 and thereafter. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Eldon for the great work of managing the mailing list and the e-magazine ‘theos-world.’ It is nice to have an avenue to share theosophy, even though most of us just read the posts, which is OK too. I would like to thank Dallas for the immense amount of research information and personal wisdom he shares constantly with us, unconditionally, and sometimes for people who attack him for the very act of keeping the focus on theosophical literature. To Daniel, for keeping us informed on the Theosophical Movement and its roots. Let’s face it, being theosophist also means, I think, knowing about its history. The point is ‘there’ in its history is where we find its purposes, its ups and downs ( how difficult is to deal with humans), how theosophy is reflected in the world. Non theosophists’ comments and critics are gems too. To Nicholas W. for the few posts that were reminders to experience the ‘Emptiness’ which is more important than its description and study. Perhaps only a "few real mystics in the Theosophical Society" will understand and appreciate his comments and are on the steps of the Path "beyond which stretch the shoreless water of Akshara, the indestructible Fount of Omniscience." Also to Dara for offering her home, year after year, for theosophical studies and gatherings, keeping the link alive. To Wes A. for accepting the task of sharing theosophy in uncharted waters. Good luck my brother. To all of you who share with your keyboards, thoughts and hearts…Theosophy is greater than books and email. Theosophy is found everywhere someone practices theosophy. As Leon M. expressed recently in, the mere fact that HPB issued the last 2 objects to the world set in motion the keynote for scientific investigation in all fields. I hope this year and the many to come will bring to us the spirit of sharing theosophy without the fanaticism that separates; that we may truly discover and share the essence all religions, not in words but as a direct apprehension of the great Truth. Theosophy is not better than … nor greater than …, because Theosophy is the accumulated wisdom gathered by the Great Brotherhood of Adepts and does not mix with the gross or exoteric forms of religions. But all of us regardless of the chosen path or yoga need to move from words to experiencing directly the mystical, non-dual Atman (Higher Self), or Brahman (be it of as a theophanic experience, or Theos with attributes), or Emptiness (attributeless All or Void). >From my heart: may Love, Compassion and Goodness reign in your heart, Martin In west Los Angeles -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 16:30:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA04568 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:03:46 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000102155819.00a2ec90@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:58:19 -0600 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: RE: Theos-World Happy New Year to All In-Reply-To: <000a01bf5565$3468bb40$590e75ce@nwc.net> References: <386EF97B.6731C481@lainet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com I join the thanks expressed by Martin for the excellent work being done by Eldon. Running a maillist involves a lot of time in addition to the cost. The *independent* maillists such as theos-talk provides a forum for all of us to discuss variety of issues without interference from anyone -- however high -- and the value is very very high. I am sure there are countless lurking subscribers -- many of them lurking -- for one reason or the other -- who join the above sentiments. mkr >From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com >[mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Martin >Leiderman >Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 11:09 PM >To: theos-talk@theosophy.com >Subject: Theos-World Happy New Year to All > > >Dear fellow theosophists, > >Happy New Year 2000 and thereafter. > >I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Eldon for the great >work of managing >the mailing list and the e-magazine ‘theos-world.’ It is nice to >have an avenue >to share theosophy, even though most of us just read the posts, >which is OK too. -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 16:59:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA08557 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 16:44:34 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000102143006.00bbec30@theosophy.com> X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 14:38:54 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: Theos-World early years of mailing lists on the Internet Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com I've just put online an archival copy of the earliest email on the first theosophical mailing list, theos-l, at: http://www.theosophy.net/tl.html This covers the July through December 1993 monthly discussions. I'll put online another year of two soon, when time permits. You may notice from the discussions that John Mead initially was thinking of having the list as the first online study center of the T.S. in America, but the list quickly took on more of an international nature, and took a different direction. The webpage above gives links to the first six months of the archives on the list, each month consisting of an ascii file, ranging in size from 15KB for July 1993 through 706KB for December 1993. -- Eldon Tucker -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 19:09:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA20252 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:54:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000102184900.008f8de0@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:49:00 -0600 To: theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Theos-World theos-l archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Eldon must be congratulated in making the 1993 theos-l messages available for reading and downloading. All of us should be grateful to him. Many of us (including myself), for varied reasons, did not get on the theos-l in the early years. I briefly browsed the msgs and found them very informative and interesting. I am sure everyone who has a chance to read them will agree. Here again we see the power of internet in making information available -- much of it not available anywhere else -- all for freeeeeee. No membership dues, no donations, no passing the plate, no love offering, no contribution for this or that cause, no subscriptions, no sanitizing, no "editing" or censoring -- just msgs as posted by the writers. All for free to download/read and benefit from them. mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 19:40:38 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA24408 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 19:34:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000102172252.00a76e90@theosophy.com> X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:26:10 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: Theos-World early years of mailing lists on the Internet Cc: theos-l@list.vnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Regarding the theos-l archives that I put online earlier today, I've increased the number of online months from July -- December 1993 to now include three additional years, making 42 months of materials, July 1993 -- December 1996. The content can be accessed at: http://www.theosophy.net/tl.html The web page gives links to the 42 months of the archives on the list, each month consisting of an ascii file, ranging in size from 15KB for July 1993 through 1468KB for December 1996. -- Eldon Tucker -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 20:53:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id UAA32296 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:33:07 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000102181951.00b11d30@theosophy.com> X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:23:23 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Theosophy World Editor Subject: Theos-World Language of the Third Object Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com The following was intended by Jim Rodak for theos-talk, but I'm not sure that it made it out on the list. -- Eldon Tucker ---- >From: "Jim Rodak" >Subject: Language of the Third Object >Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:33:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01BF545C.CFCE6E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Greetings and Happy New Millennium -- In the November 1996 issue of The Theosophist, N. Sri Ram's article "The Open Field of the Third Object" (a reprint of an article originally published in the December 1964 issue of the same journal), makes what I consider an interesting observation that I would like to share with you. I quote: "The Third Object of the Society reads: 'To investigate unexplained laws of Nature and the powers latent in man.' First of all, is the word 'unexplained' the right word in the sentence? Should it not really be 'undiscovered'? The word 'unexplained' implies that we have already identified the laws, and perceived their existence, but they have not been explained because of some obscurity in them or because of their complex or complica-ted nature, whereas the word 'undiscovered' would imply only the presumption that there are laws unknown to us at present." Sri Ram continues his article with a comprehensive overview of the history of the Third Object and I commend it to my brethren for their perusal and consideration. Without sounding heretical, I would also ask if the word 'laws' is the right word in the sentence and whether the word 'mysteries' or 'secrets' might better convey what the Third Object intends for the reader to contemplate. I believe that revisiting the language of the Third Object with a view to wording it more clearly might help eliminate the ambiguity that present-day readers might perceive in it. Words conjure up impressions and meanings that often, from my experience, are not what was originally intended to convey to the reading audience by the writer. I think it safe to say that we all have had to re-articulate our writings, thinking that what we had published originally was crystal clear. In closing, I think it worthy to quote again from Sri Ram's informative article: "Third Object: Scope and Limitations To sum up what I have said: The study of Occultism in general can do much good. It is the study of Nature, taking her as a totality, not only what appears on the surface but also the hidden laws and processes. It can be marvelously enlightening, when one takes it up in earnest; for then instead of seeing only the superficial aspect of things, he sees through it, penetrates to the heart of existence, sees what lies behind the facade, the extension behind the appearance. We can all engage in such study, but to 'investigate' the hidden laws and powers requires the necessary capacity. The development of such capacity is an individual affair, not the business of the Society, which cannot have schools for such development. The seeking of power is dangerous, as it builds up self-importance, the desire to enjoy it and dominate, whether it is power in this world or power of a different character. Whatever anyone declares to be true by the exercise of psychic powers may be worthy of consideration -- that depends upon the person. But it should be taken with a grain of discrimination. When you do not accept a statement or reject it but just look at it or contemplate it you will know your own response. If you respond to the truth of it, you register that fact. This is really the attitude needed with regard to the pursuit of the Third Object, which to many minds is exceedingly vague because they have not sorted out all the implications of what they believe or refuse to believe, do not have any clear idea of what Occultism is and what we can accept and what not. It is necessary to have in our minds a certain clarity with regard to our aims and undertakings, whether pertaining to the Third Object of the Society or anything else." I look forward to your comments. And for those so interested, I commend the whole of the aforementioned issue of The Theosophist for your edification. Respectfully and fraternally yours, Jim Rodak -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 2 23:09:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id XAA17462 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:04:51 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-ID: <004601bf55ae$b05e3e20$210ac5a9@azstarnet.com> From: "D.Caldwell/M.Graye" To: "Caldwell, Daniel H." Subject: Theos-World Historical Material about H.P. Blavatsky & the Mahatmas on the World Wide Web Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:52:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Historical Material about H.P. Blavatsky & the Mahatmas on the World Wide Web GO TO: http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/othermaterial.htm There is a considerable amount of historical material about Madame Blavatsky and the Mahatmas that has been published on the World Wide Web. Many of these documents are available at The Blavatsky Archives Online. But several other web sites contain valuable collections of related material. On this new web page, I give a list of such documents published on various other web sites. If anyone knows of other relevant online historical documents that should be added to this list, please email me at danielhcaldwell@hotmail.com. SEE THE NEW WEB PAGE AT: http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/othermaterial.htm Daniel H. Caldwell BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/index.htm -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Tue Jan 4 11:01:36 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id KAA32294 for theos-talk-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:50:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000104105229.006f2e0c@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:52:29 -0600 To: theos-l@list.vnet.net From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Theos-World Foot's Pseudo-Theosophy Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Can someone give me feedback on the subject books? What does it deal with? What are the conclusions of Foot? mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Tue Jan 4 11:42:56 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA07992 for theos-talk-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:42:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <000501bf56da$7637f060$bf8306d4@l3s5x9> From: "Frank Reitemeyer" To: , "Theosophy Study List" , , "Theosophical News/Events Announcements" Subject: Theos-World Fw: New German SD out Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:36:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF563B.05278B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF563B.05278B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Reitemeyer=20 To: Theosophical News/Events Announcements=20 Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: New German SD out For German readers: There's a new reprint of Hugo Vollrath's 1919 four = volume Leipzig edition of 'Die Geheimlehre'. For further information look at the publishers site (Point Loma-Covina = TS Germany): www.geheimlehre.de ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF563B.05278B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Frank = Reitemeyer=20

To: Theosophical News/Events = Announcements

Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 2:39 AM

Subject: New German SD out

For German readers: There's a new = reprint of Hugo=20 Vollrath's 1919 four volume Leipzig edition of 'Die = Geheimlehre'.

For further information look at the = publishers site=20 (Point Loma-Covina TS Germany):

www.geheimlehre.de

------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF563B.05278B00-- -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Tue Jan 4 18:18:30 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA23265 for theos-talk-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:10:09 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" To: "AAA-DAL" Subject: Theos-World RE: BN -- What are "neo-theosophists ?" Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:02:06 -0800 Message-ID: <000101bf5710$1cd0c340$250e75ce@nwc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Jan 4th 2000 January 4th is the "Theosophical New Year" Best wishes to all. Dear Louis: and other friends: I don't get the drift of the question. What are "neo-theosophists?" All those who have benefited from Theosophy are in a sense neo-theosophists. But, essentially, Theosophy is a way of looking at the constitution of our Universe, our World, and our lives. It is not a cult or an "ism." As such there are no "authorities." However there are advanced Students, and the Masters of Wisdom show us by what they offer for consideration that they have acquired a knowledge (transformed by application into Wisdom) that can help us secure a deeper and a wider view of the operations of nature. If any "reverence" is to be shown it would be for and to those who have deserved it by virtue of their study and effort made to pass on to us the information that has made them great. There appears to be a duty involve in acquiring wisdom and that is transmission. It is not something that can be kept or concealed. To live in us it has to be diffused. One is naturally grateful to anyone who imparts a deeper view of facts that are common. Particularly the operations of the power of thinking and feeling are considered -- as the operations of Karma which we generate, and which we later receive the results of. Accordingly the appellation of "Theosophist" would fall on those who perfectly apply the wisdom that is available and present all around us in terms of the highest motives for their thoughts, words and deeds. None of us are able to judge others and their success or failures in this. Hence while we might like to designate selected individuals for reverence and respect, it is our own perception that is being judged. No true "guru" ever seeks "recognition," or "honors." They hide anything that would attract such a regard, and they busy themselves in drawing attention to the facts and laws of nature, which of taken for use, can elevate anyone. The whole effort is individual self-devised ways and means. And nothing can be given as a gift, except that "windows of perception" can be shown to exist. The "original teachings of Theosophy" coming from the Masters, through HPB will be found to answer to such a criterion. But such a determination is always by an individual for themselves. "Windows" and "doors" to perspectives are opened to our minds in Theosophical books and articles and statements. But we are always asked to investigate and PROVE them for ourselves. And then, there remains the duty of passing them on. Such a freedom is basic and important to the whole of the Theosophical philosophy. Hence, "neo-theosophists" are ourselves in the making -- and as Monads, or Eternal Pilgrims we owe each other brotherly recognition and assistance. That is why, to my way of thinking, UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD is one of the quickest and shortest ways to a "spiritual success," and nothing else will take us as those immortal pilgrims there except that as a daily and an hourly attention and practice. What did HPB come to do? Briefly it was to awaken the dormant mind of the whole race of mankind, not only here in the "West." but also in the "East." Consequently she wrote for the whole of humanity and not for us who read and speak English alone or who have the Christian religion as a basis for our moral views. She wrote for Hindus, Jews, Muslims, and the rest of the many world religions. Theosophy, like Science has no limits or barriers. It is a statement of facts in nature, and relates the observations and findings of many generations of adepts who have tested and proved the facts that are now exposed to us to consider. We are not asked to believe anything We are asked to read, study, consider and see if the applications are fair and honest. One cannot make snap judgments about theosophical presentations without raising the specter of "belief." Consider with me that a "belief" is an expression of a "closed mind." It refuses to investigate, to search, to look for more. It holds to criteria it has adopted and which it applies to itself and others . It declares that it will not move from the position it has assumed. On the other hand "faith" is found to be always renewed by questioning, and by inquiry. It is fueled by an eager mind always willing to look into alternative fields and constantly adding to those basic concepts that seem to be immovable and reliable, but, even those are under constant review and the process of confirmation every proceeds. Theosophy does not give "Truth" but, rather, it provides the means to find it. And this is to be done by each one for themselves. There can be no vicarious imparting of wisdom. It has to be self-earned. We are immortal pilgrims and our progress gives in the eternity that stretches ahead, ample time to acquire all that we need. Every life seen an increment to that which has already been gained. We are in a vast school -- Nature is our class room and our fellow pupils are not only our fellow humans, but are the hosts of "Monads" or, the materials that make up our bodies, our feelings and our minds. "WE" (the Human Monad) are the Perceiver which is experiencing all this, and now we have to ask "Why." We are all independent, and yet we are also inseparable. We live all together, and yet, as mind-being our thoughts flow out and around us and touch all the rest of mankind and Nature. What kind of impression do we leave? If we cannot, with present instrumentation, detect the influence of "thought-waves," that does not mean they do not exist on some plane for which we still lack sensory apparatus that will show their activity in our gross material condition. There is no one that we can "complain to." The problems we find burdening us are those which our minds alone can solve directly. Under karma we created them. One could say briefly, mystically: "To know the "Head" we must first use the "Heart." There are three important questions that confront us all: What is "Reality?" How does it work? What is it for ? I am interested to hear from anyone who may have an answer to the question originally asked. It is an important one I think. Best wishes, Dallas dalval@nwc.net ================================== -----Original Message----- From: Teos9@aol.com [mailto:Teos9@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:03 AM Subject: [bn-study] More on new agers and neo-theosophists In the HPB Quote of the Day (for Jan 3): <> Wouldn't this apply to the neo-theosophists also? Or did she mean only those who hold a certain view and agreed with the accepted version? Any one care to shed a little light? Louis -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Tue Jan 4 22:58:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA18899 for theos-talk-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:57:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000104225221.02523900@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:52:21 -0600 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com, "AAA-DAL" Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: BN -- What are "neo-theosophists ?" In-Reply-To: <000101bf5710$1cd0c340$250e75ce@nwc.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com At 04:02 PM 01/04/2000 -0800, W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote: >What did HPB come to do? Briefly it was to awaken the dormant >mind of the whole race of mankind, not only here in the "West." >but also in the "East." Consequently she wrote for the whole of >humanity and not for us who read and speak English alone or who >have the Christian religion as a basis for our moral views. She >wrote for Hindus, Jews, Muslims, and the rest of the many world >religions. I think the point you are making is very important. Looking back to the days of HPB when it was fashionable in the upper class elite to use French language -- which of course HPB was fluent in -- and I believe at the first meeting between HPB and HSO their conversation started in French -- all her key writings were in English. Looking at the 21st century, English is the second language in all the countries so it has become a common language for communication of ideas and I am certain that the Adepts knew this is going to be the case in the coming centuries and chose to make her write her classics such as Isis and SD in English. Already the literate world, in general is transcending the national, religious, racial and other boundaries which separate one human being from the other and a time in the not too distant a future people from the East and West will recognize the general panoramic view the theosophy gives on the universe and the living beings inhabiting our Earth. Transcending the various artificial boundaries is bound bring together people from all parts of the world which would in turn improve the living conditions of all living beings around the world. Hope some of us would live long enough to see the golden age!! mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Wed Jan 5 04:13:06 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id EAA03490 for theos-talk-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 04:11:25 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <3873184C.96862954@sprynet.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 05:09:16 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: BN -- What are "neo-theosophists ?" References: <3.0.3.32.20000104225221.02523900@mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com ramadoss@eden.com wrote: > Looking back to the days of HPB when it was fashionable in the upper class > elite to use French language -- which of course HPB was fluent in -- and I > believe at the first meeting between HPB and HSO their conversation started > in French -- all her key writings were in English. > > Looking at the 21st century, English is the second language in all the > countries so it has become a common language for communication of ideas and > I am certain that the Adepts knew this is going to be the case in the > coming centuries and chose to make her write her classics such as Isis and > SD in English. I personally think that her belief that the United States is key to the evolution of humanity was another reason. Although there was global travel before, global travel and global communications for the mass of humanity was not really available until the 20th century. Before, people in various geographical areas tended to be more or less isolated from others, allowing cultures to flourish where different human traits were developed in different areas (because people in some of these areas had common physical features, this development is frequently confused with what is commonly called "race", but it's not strictly true. Geographically separated peoples from the same "race" developed different characteristics, while geographically close people of two different "races" developed the same ones). Some obvious examples include engineering, mathematics, and boolean logic in Europe, communication skills in Africa, spiritual thought and non-boolean logic in Eastern Asia. The 4th root race civilization was preserved among the Australian aborigines, according to the Mahatmas (note that they specifically stated the CIVILIZATION, and not the bodies), and apparently among the shamanistic native American groups, who also developed complex political systems that made near-democracy practical (the U.S. Constitution owes a great deal to some of these systems). In the United States, an area that had been devestated by ecological disasters in the early 14th through early 17th centuries, only a small part coming from the European invasion of Central and South America in the 16th century, European settlers came in the 17th century of the common era. Through a set of circumstances familiar to most of us, a cultural mixing of the geographic groups from all over the world, some voluntary, some not, came into this country. Although the European-developed traits were given the highest cultural value, the traits developed by the other peoples started mixing in (if you think the United States is "racist", take a look at just about every other country in the world). If one believes the theory that people incarnate in the body that has the best chance of learning lessons that they need to learn, in the United States, instead of developing just a single set of traits, there is a unique opportunity for all individuals to develop all the traits that have been evolving in humanity. For those who like science fiction, check out Gordy Dickson's Childe Cycle series, particularly the novels taking place in the future (usually referred to as the Dorsai novels), for a far less complex analogy. Bart Lidofsky -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Thu Jan 6 03:19:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id DAA03528 for theos-talk-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 03:06:33 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000106025839.008fc6c0@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 02:58:39 -0600 To: theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Theos-World Internet Use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Court Systems are known to be the most conservative ones as far as innovation and adoption of modern technology. It is changing. In yesterday's Wall Street Journal it is reported: "For a look at the future of Texas Courts, consider Dallas's Fifth Court of Appeals. At 3 a.m., the previous day's opinions and administrative actions are automatically downloaded to a central computer, where lawyers, judges and others with Internet access can retrieve them. Opinions to hundreds of lawyers and interested parties in 35 states, who receive them at no cost. The system even sends out e-mail reminders to attorneys a week before a motion or brief is due." What is interesting is that the above implementation did not require an arm and a leg. It was due to the decision of an enterprising chief judge. "Two years ago, the Courts Chief Justice Linda Thomas agreed to let Charles Matz, a Houston computer consultant, run a pilot project to bring the court online. .. Setting up such a system costs about $5,000; operating it costs $500 to $1,000 a month depending on volume." TS organizational leadership and "scholars" of Ancient Wisdom seem to be very far behind in seeing Internet as a tool of efficient communication. It could be that due to the generational gap that exists (most belong to the dying generation), they seem to have difficulty in comprehending Internet technology and how it could help making theosophy available to the masses. While meditation and other techniques could be powerful in their effects in higher planes, by themselves may not be enough in the physical world we live in. Like using modern technology in transportation and communication to get things done efficiently, Internet is the latest in the area of communication. If we do not take advantage of Internet revolution going on, we may miss a great opportunity in making theosophy available to the masses. If anyone is dreaming about waiting to be told by the Theosophical Adepts the need to use Internet as a tool, we will be dreaming for a long time. They retreated into silence over 100 years ago and are not likely to talk anytime soon. mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Thu Jan 6 03:27:46 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id DAA03532 for theos-talk-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 03:06:35 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000106023644.008f8c30@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 02:36:44 -0600 To: theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Theos-World Internet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com When I received the latest issue of Popular Photography Magazine, I was surprised to find a full page ad addressed to Mail Order Advertisers. In the letter it says: "We regret to say that in the past few months complaints from Popular Photography readers against some mail order stores and mail order tales of horror posted on the Internet have become numerous and outrageous" To protect the interests of the readers and honest advertisers, the magazine has takes steps to enforce additional requirement on the advertisers. It is interesting to note that the magazine owners did not wait to hear from their readers directly. Just the exchange of msgs between their readership on the Internet triggered the action. The owners could have ignored any and all talk on the Internet, because all of it could be considered as "unofficial" and not requiring any response. On the other hand, they saw the feedback to be valuable to their magazine in the long run and decided to act without waiting to "hear" from the readership directly. Theosophical organizations can learn a lesson from the above. While the msg traffic in this and other maillists and newsgroups are not the extension of their official channels of information communication, they can provide true and very valuable feedback, especially in the downward trend we see in formal membership in theosophical organizations. We all know that the Ancient Wisdom is intrinsically very valuable to the humanity. If it could "sell" by itself, HPB and other leaders could have just stayed in one place and written all the books and publications with no need for TS and its branches. Obviously, at the time the branches were started, that was one of the best ways of reaching individuals. The Adepts should have known about it. Now things have changed. We have the Internet Juggernaut moving into all areas of communication. To not take advantage to further dissemination of Theosophy would be to miss a very great opportunity. There appears to be an aversion to use Internet technology by theosophical organizations and its leadership and many theosophical "scholars". Generational gap may be what is blinding them in not seeing the Juggernaut staring at their face. Or are they waiting to get direction or instruction from Theosophical Adepts from beyond Himalayas on using Internet resources? I hope they are not sitting ducks waiting to be run over by Internet. mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Thu Jan 6 04:12:26 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id EAA06086 for theos-talk-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 04:04:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: Teos9@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 05:00:22 EST Subject: Re: Theos-World Internet Use To: theos-talk@theosophy.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 44 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com In a message dated 01/06/00 4:19:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ramadoss@eden.com writes: << TS organizational leadership and "scholars" of Ancient Wisdom seem to be very far behind in seeing Internet as a tool of efficient communication. It could be that due to the generational gap that exists (most belong to the dying generation), they seem to have difficulty in comprehending Internet technology and how it could help making theosophy available to the masses. >> Thanks Doss. Your comment above, as well as the article you cite regarding a Texas courts use of the Internet is very provocative. I welcome your contributions about current Internet usage and the possibilities when applied to theosophy. Keep up the good work. Louis Think God. God, thinks you! -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Thu Jan 6 09:31:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id JAA04296 for theos-talk-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:23:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000106091757.008f5740@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:17:57 -0600 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Internet Use In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com At 05:00 AM 01/06/2000 EST, Teos9@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 01/06/00 4:19:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ramadoss@eden.com writes: << TS organizational leadership and "scholars" of Ancient Wisdom seem to be very far behind in seeing Internet as a tool of efficient communication. It could be that due to the generational gap that exists (most belong to the dying generation), they seem to have difficulty in comprehending Internet technology and how it could help making theosophy available to the masses. >> >Thanks Doss. Your comment above, as well as the article you cite regarding a Texas courts use of the Internet is very provocative. I welcome your contributions about current Internet usage and the possibilities when applied to theosophy. Keep up the good work. Louis Think God. God, thinks you! == Thanks, Louis for your support. Internet may be the salvation for the declining interest in theosophy through formal organizations. Hope something comes out of all our wishes. ...doss -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Fri Jan 7 00:01:17 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id XAA28820 for theos-talk-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:52:49 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000106234718.007a4490@mail.eden.com> X-Sender: ramadoss@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:47:18 -0600 To: theos-l@list.vnet.net Subject: Theos-World Behaviour of Masses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Some time ago, I read an interesting incident. It was during the time when Mussolini was in power and was very popular in the country. Jiddu Krishnamurti happened to schedule a series of talks in Rome. On the first day of his talk, he was very surprised. The lecture hall was full and the front rows were occupied by the top military brass in their shiny uniforms with their medals and other bureaucrats of Mussolini administration. The turn out of the military and government bureaucrats surprised even Krishnamurti. It appears there was some rumors that Mussolini was interested in Krishnamurti's philosophy and this triggered the immediate interest of the military brass and bureaucrats and it appears they turned out to hear him in the hope the turnout will reach the ears of Mussolini and be his good books. Lo and behold, the next day, at the talk all this crowd disappeared. There were few members of the public who were really interested in what Krishnamurti had to say. The disappearance of military brass and bureaucrats was due their having found out that after all Mussolini was not interested in Krishnamurti's philosophy. This incident simply shows very few are really interested in philosophy. The crowd -- in particular bureaucrats -- generally show interest for reasons other than real commitment to philosophy. As an analogy, if there were to be a *rumor* that the Theosophical Adepts are interested in Internet, may be all the bureacrats and others may suddenly show an interest in Internet because of it could please the Adepts!!! Just a speculation. Any one listening???? mkr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 8 03:06:50 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id CAA05872 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:46:27 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: LeonMaurer@aol.com Message-ID: <67.6780c424.25a8526f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 03:42:23 EST Subject: Re: Theos-World Internet Use To: theos-talk@theosophy.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com In a message dated 1/6/0 9:19:53 AM, ramadoss@eden.com writes: >TS organizational leadership and "scholars" of Ancient Wisdom seem to be >very far behind in seeing Internet as a tool of efficient communication. It >could be that due to the generational gap that exists (most belong to the >dying generation), they seem to have difficulty in comprehending Internet >technology and how it could help making theosophy available to the masses. >While meditation and other techniques could be powerful in their effects in >higher planes, by themselves may not be enough in the physical world we >live in. Like using modern technology in transportation and communication >to get things done efficiently, Internet is the latest in the area of >communication. > >If we do not take advantage of Internet revolution going on, we may miss >a great opportunity in making theosophy available to the masses. >If anyone is dreaming about waiting to be told by the Theosophical Adepts >the need to use Internet as a tool, we will be dreaming for a long time. >They retreated into silence over 100 years ago and are not likely to talk >anytime soon. The reason for their so called "retreat into silence" (on the material plane, that is) is that everything we needed to know for the next phase of the Theosophical Movement was already given us by HPB. For one thing, she said, that we should teach the masses the truths of reincarnation and karma using the "language of the age." After that, DK, a self professed "teacher" of KH and M (whether true or not), reinforced this by saying, through Alice Bailey (disregarding all the other fantasies and interpretations that she may have added out of her own mind), that that new language will be the electronic mass communication media to come in another 50 years or so (since he spoke in the mid thirties). Was this a legitimate message from the Masters prophesying the Internet, satellite movie and TV transmissions, satellite telephony, etc., that had to come through AAB with her mass of neo-theosophist followers -- since HPB was no longer around? Should theosophists of any stripe leave any stone unturned in following up the teachings of HPB? Don't we all still believe in the Fundamental Principles? Isn't that what really counts in the long run? It seems to me, that the Internet and the mass entertainment media fulfills both those "messages" of the Masters. Their teachings were given out, in full, at the end of the 18th century to be studied and assimilated by the theosophical "companions" in the 20th century, as preparation for their eventual gathering together to carry out the "action" phase destined to take place in the 21st century. Judging by the recent statistics of how many people today (more than 50%) believe in reincarnation and karma, compared to the beginning of the 20th century, is proof enough that HPB's teachings have been somewhat fruitful. But, the "masses" have yet to be influenced to act on these beliefs, because they do not understand their ramifications from a theosophical or spiritual po int of view -- as immutable "Laws of Nature." To teach them, en masse, will be the work of those theosophical "companions" who have intuitively understood the real nature of the Movement, as well as the overall "Plan," and are ready to take part in the next "positive action" phase of the Movement. It's a fact that the "Theosophical Movement" always appears in two 100 year stages or phases, which correspond to the positive and negative aspects of all cycles (vide a sine wave) -- one phase, subjective (since its on mental and spiritual planes) and the other objective (since its action is on the astral and physical planes) . The first, is when the teachings are given out in their complete form for a century of subjective study. And the following phase, is when the actual work is done to objectively fulfill the plan of physical action. Examine the 16th century teachings that empowered the work of the 17th century revolutions establishing the "rights of man" in American, and its reflection in Europe, and eventually, Asia, over the next centuries -- in preparation for the Teachings written by HPB to subjectively empower us during the 20th century for the objective work to be done in the 21st. Apparently, the leaders of the TS and other "old timers" in the movement, while versed in the letter of the theosophical teachings, and in management of study groups are not the real "intuitive student's whom HPB said will understand the underlying meaning of her teachings by "reading between the lines and in the words." Some of us, however, have apparently gotten this message many years ago and have been and are now hard at work following the guidance of HPB, and preparing the new "action messages," that are soon to be disseminated through the mass media to fulfill this mandate. Many of these new mass media approaches, however, are wisely disguised to appear as pure entertainment, with no mention of theosophy, per se (which might turn off many people due to the bad propaganda disseminated by those influenced by the Dugpas during the past century, or by its connotation as a religion)... But, the productions won't be non-theosophical, since they will include all its underlying teachings of karma, reincarnation, and Universal Brotherhood, as "laws of Nature", as well as the means to achieve individual "Self Realization," along with the means to actively realign the Earths internal energies and restore its harmonious ecology, both objectively and subjectively -- using the conjoined "psychical powers latent in man(kind)." (There has to be an underlying purpose for the third object that couldn't be too obvious on its surface, don't you think?) Incidentally, some of us have individually received these messages since around 1976 on purely subjective levels, or by direct teachings from living "agents" of the Masters -- since there are many dangers if prematurely revealed publicly. Therefore, be assured, the Masters are not entirely "silent." And, since the recent full moon at the winter solstice, with the moon at perigee and the sun at apogee, along with the planetary alignment, was a sign that the spiritual cycle is in close phase with the material cycle, the Masters can reach us on the mind level very easily now (and will be around for at least the next few decades, I would assume). Those that can hear, will hear, and those that can see, will see... So, stay tuned --you intuitive theosophists... Our time is yet to come... And, soon. On a more mundane level... Naturally, the high costs and skills involved in such media penetration would necessarily require the efforts of professional people with broad media knowledge, and who are also theosophists (whether or not members of the TS or other theosophical groups) -- in order to raise the immense funds needed, and to carry out the necessarily highly skilled work. Much of this has been prepared in thought, plans, blueprints and "treatments" over the past 25 years, and is now ready for initiation in physical reality. I, for one, have been active on the Internet long before it became the world wide web, and active in the mass entertainment media long before there were satellite transmissions or cable television, and have always recognized their potentials for theosophical messages since I first picked up the SD over forty years ago and filled two copies with margin notes leading to my theory of ABC (see: http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/) and the writing of the theosophically based Solarworld Chronicles, a series of theatrical and television movies (now, with current desktop super computer technologies, capable of being transmitted directly over the Internet) that are now ready for preproduction development. There are also many other allied projects of a worldwide reconstructive nature proposed by me and other "professional" theosophists (in the ULT declaration sense), also now ready for "blueprinting" in the Solarworld Chronicles, as well as physical development when the time is ripe. Some of the preparatory work to set the stage (also of a theosophical nature as well as disguised as pure entertainment) has already been produced by other "underground" theosophical workers such as Spielberg, Lucas, Roddenberry, Kubrick, Bradbury, etc., along with a slew of other writers, producers and directors in all media. So, back to the future... Those of us who wish to take part in, or contribute to, or are interested in such new and upcoming efforts should search on the world wide web, and see how this is being done on many levels and with many parallel projects by various theosophical thinkers (overt theosophists or not) who are guided by the Masters and their teachings. To get an inkling of what I've had in mind for the past 20 years, you might start with my web page at: http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/solwldcrystposter.html With no expectations, I would appreciate anyone interested in further information as to how they can contribute along these lines, to directly contact me by e-mail. I am particularly interested in talking to theosophical ly oriented writers, producers, directors, production designers, artists, managers, technologists, computer graphicists, etc. -- with professional experience or useful connections -- as well as those who have contacts with such people or with other "theosophists" having direct or indirect access to substantial sums of money (for investment purposes, if not direct contributions). LHM -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 8 06:38:51 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id GAA21428 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:29:51 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Internet Use -- from Leon Maurer Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 04:24:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01bf59d3$4fe8eda0$930e97cf@nwc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <67.6780c424.25a8526f@aol.com> Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Jan 8th 2000 Our good friend Leon Maurer has sent a series of observations and suggestions regarding the future of work that can be done for THEOSOPHY. May I respond ? --------------------------------------------------- >From Dallas TenBroeck. Dear Friends: In my esteem one ought to consult the OBJECTS of the Theosophical Society as a prime guide in determining exactly what Theosophy stands for. I am going to say a few things on my own responsibility that have touched me deeply as I consider events around us. If we desire to be real Theosophists and not merely dilettantes, we need to think deeply over the implication of some of the following : 1. Brotherhood as an active practice. 2. the acquirement of knowledge and the wisdom of the past; and 3. an understanding of the invisible man that lies within each of us, the thinker, the feeler, the perceiver, the witness, the chooser, the Eternal Pilgrim. Where are they? What are they? Why does the Personality hide them so well? What do we know about thought and thinking? What do we know about the feelings and emotions and our response or non-response to them? What are the "psychical powers in Man and nature ?" How do feelings and mind interact? Who controls, Who is "in charge -- in each of us ?" Theosophy as a system of study is one thing, as a system of personal and individual practice it is another. It is not congregational or political, as it has no aims at influencing superficially a mass of people, so that they might call themselves "Theosophists." It aims at providing that kind of reliable information which enables every thinking person to make an impersonal assessment of their natures. It provides a stable base of reliable facts from which to evaluate our life and work. It does not place this evaluation in other hands, but asks each of us to do it for ourselves -- there is greater honesty and understanding in that method than asking anyone to "follow an 'authority.'" HPB wrote books and articles disclosing a great portion of that essential information which, if read and studied, will change our mental and emotional outlook and the way in which we direct and live our lives. How can we pretend to the use of the word "theosophy" if we do not know exactly what it is and what it can do? There is only one way to achieve this: Go back to school, read and study. Use our own natures, minds and emotional/feeling selves as the laboratory in which to test our understanding. We have to "go within." Going "out there" is distracting to that kind of intense learning. Theosophy is NOT for any great expansion of numbers, or for any political or social reform . It stands for the self-reform of the individual and invokes the universal MORALITY (ETHOS) of the whole universe. It holds that when we understand ourselves, we will act on behalf of others with greater equity. We will by then fully understand that we are all self-made. And, that "the hands that strike us are our own." Above all: WE are the IMMORTAL PILGRIMS and we have as a duty the diffusion of this information to others (as we originally received it) and the practice of it in our own personal lives. Virtues are not subjects for discussion or of possible adoption when convenient. They are realities which are the sole and only "doors" to the inner life -- the life of the SOUL. They strike, when understood, the balance between selfishness and altruism. (SD II 163-4) There is no vagueness in real Theosophy, nor is there any coercion or persuasion of others. Information is offered from the "history" of the World. It rules and laws are exposed for our consideration as Karma. The fact is that everyone makes or breaks themselves. The opportunities are common. We can assist others but we cannot force them to act in some one chosen way, or standard pattern. Each has to progress on their own basis; and this is always and only determined by a freely assumed choice. Every human being as well as every other living thing in the whole Universe is a "free chooser," each at their own level of intelligence and responsibility. We, as humans -- entrusted with a Mind, have a wider perception of the world, and of the Universe, hence our choices are more potent. Our responsibility is proportionally greater. It is that particular area that we are developing. On our choice depends much of the future of Humanity and its progress. We will return, under the law of reincarnation to the situations for which we have laid the foundations this life. Is this return to be one of assistance, or one of difficulties for us and others? We may observe mass movements, but we, as "theosophists," are not expected to participate in or meddle with them. First we are expected to reform ourselves and to make ourselves harmless to others and true brothers to all. If we deem ourselves separate in any way, to that extent such an aspiration fails. We are not "leaders." We are students. Or rather, student/teachers. We are obligated to "pass on" the wisdom in the same condition and unmodified shape as we received it. The objective of Theosophical Philosophy is to display before all the facts and parameters of the actual inner Universe -- the causal and the effect side -- called Karma, that moves the outer range of effects that we perceive with our senses. Efforts to amass a large following are not fruitful unless that following is based on a moral agreement -- not merely lip professions. We are not dealing with statistics or political balances of power demonstrated by the strength of mere numbers. We are offering ideas that truly "rule the word." Those who come to Theosophy and stick, are those who sense the force of this do-it-yourself situation -- one that all may use, as it is common to all. The sense of sharing, of solidarity is true when there is no compulsion made, and when the value of a common sharing is seen to be in operation. Vast funds are not needed, but strong and vibrant hearts are. The Wisdom of the World, of the Universe is what we are privileged to study. It is not our "property." it belongs to all. What are some of the basic ideas that Theosophy offers? 1. Individual immortality is a fact, not something to be "acquired" by the use of rote, rite or ritual. Nothing so superficial, but rather, a deep perception of our ONENESS with the rest of the UNIVERSE. We emanate from the same source, and have as much a connection with the Sun as with our parents or any other being we hold in respect. Life is a universal force in which we all share equally. 2. We have unlimited responsibility for all our motives and choices. We cannot blame others for our condition. We influence and impress for improvement or debasement everything that our feelings, minds, and actions affect. This, in operation, is called KARMA. 3. We all evolve together. Our World and Universe is a cooperative. Each supports and assists others in some way. Our physical body is one of the best illustrations of this. We do not know enough to correctly govern and manage it, yet it does this on its own. Usually when we try to do something to or for it, we make it more difficult for it to do its own job. We are tenants to which a marvelous machine is entrusted. Do we use or abuse it? Do we "own" it, or does it "own" us? Neither. We are together a cooperative. 4. Deity (SPIRIT) is universal and hence it is interior to us as well as to every atom. It is the ONE SOURCE from which life, light and hope are derived. Can we, do we recognize this? Can we develop any certitudes in regard to this ? Are we to forever remain ignorant and careless about this vital point? 5. The highest worship we can pay is our momentary decision to assist others without any hope of a "reward." The more we give, the more we receive from Nature. But do we actually believe this is possible, or that this anything more than "wishful thinking?" Or the fancy of some poor deluded soul who is "out of touch with stern reality?" 6. Nature is all and contains all. Every department of life and Science investigates, relies on, and uses some aspect of Nature. We could not live 10 minutes without the gift of air, or 10 days without the gift of water, or 10 weeks without the gift of food. Nature provides these in abundance. We in our selfishness try to sequester and deny to others the free use of that which we do not really own. We create by our own selfishness and lack of charity the poverty of others and then decry their inability to "find work and improve themselves." What have we done in the way of active assistance? 7. Our life is transitory -- when the time of death arrives what have we done? What do we carry forward to the next life? What are our character, our capacities, our hopes and inner ideals? Who speaks or writes to this aspect of our lives but Theosophy ? Is it speaking truth, or is it a voice lost in the wilderness? Consider for a moment the "Sermon of the Mount." Jesus uttered sublime ethics and offered injunctions which today are hardly practiced. Are we honoring Him by disregarding them? Do we still expect Him to "save us?" If we do not try to save ourselves -- ? Why do we expect to have it all done for us? (This is only an example, since we can offer similar examples employing the words and injunctions left to us by great prophets and figures of other theological groups just as easily. We hear of and see examples that inspire -- and what is our response ? Why is it so difficult to learn from others? The rest is a passing phase, a descriptive image of the surrounding scene. Do we use it for ill or for gain? Where does wisdom lie? How do we develop thought, consideration and is it our duty to help and assist others? If so, how and where? These are some thoughts I offer after reading the posting offered below. best wishes, Dallas dalval@nwc.net ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of LeonMaurer@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 12:42 AM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Internet Use ---------------------------------- In a message dated 1/6/0 9:19:53 AM, ramadoss@eden.com writes: >TS organizational leadership and "scholars" of Ancient Wisdom seem to be >very far behind in seeing Internet as a tool of efficient communication. It >could be that due to the generational gap that exists (most belong to the >dying generation), they seem to have difficulty in comprehending Internet >technology and how it could help making theosophy available to the masses. >While meditation and other techniques could be powerful in their effects in >higher planes, by themselves may not be enough in the physical world we >live in. Like using modern technology in transportation and communication >to get things done efficiently, Internet is the latest in the area of >communication. > >If we do not take advantage of Internet revolution going on, we may miss >a great opportunity in making theosophy available to the masses. >If anyone is dreaming about waiting to be told by the Theosophical Adepts >the need to use Internet as a tool, we will be dreaming for a long time. >They retreated into silence over 100 years ago and are not likely to talk >anytime soon. Leon Maurer comments: The reason for their so called "retreat into silence" (on the material plane, that is) is that everything we needed to know for the next phase of the Theosophical Movement was already given us by HPB. For one thing, she said, that we should teach the masses the truths of reincarnation and karma using the "language of the age." After that, DK, a self professed "teacher" of KH and M (whether true or not), reinforced this by saying, through Alice Bailey (disregarding all the other fantasies and interpretations that she may have added out of her own mind), that that new language will be the electronic mass communication media to come in another 50 years or so (since he spoke in the mid thirties). Was this a legitimate message from the Masters prophesying the Internet, satellite movie and TV transmissions, satellite telephony, etc., that had to come through AAB with her mass of neo-theosophist followers -- since HPB was no longer around? Should theosophists of any stripe leave any stone unturned in following up the teachings of HPB? Don't we all still believe in the Fundamental Principles? Isn't that what really counts in the long run? It seems to me, that the Internet and the mass entertainment media fulfills both those "messages" of the Masters. Their teachings were given out, in full, at the end of the 18th century to be studied and assimilated by the theosophical "companions" in the 20th century, as preparation for their eventual gathering together to carry out the "action" phase destined to take place in the 21st century. Judging by the recent statistics of how many people today (more than 50%) believe in reincarnation and karma, compared to the beginning of the 20th century, is proof enough that HPB's teachings have been somewhat fruitful. But, the "masses" have yet to be influenced to act on these beliefs, because they do not understand their ramifications from a theosophical or spiritual po int of view -- as immutable "Laws of Nature." To teach them, en masse, will be the work of those theosophical "companions" who have intuitively understood the real nature of the Movement, as well as the overall "Plan," and are ready to take part in the next "positive action" phase of the Movement. It's a fact that the "Theosophical Movement" always appears in two 100 year stages or phases, which correspond to the positive and negative aspects of all cycles (vide a sine wave) -- one phase, subjective (since its on mental and spiritual planes) and the other objective (since its action is on the astral and physical planes) . The first, is when the teachings are given out in their complete form for a century of subjective study. And the following phase, is when the actual work is done to objectively fulfill the plan of physical action. Examine the 16th century teachings that empowered the work of the 17th century revolutions establishing the "rights of man" in American, and its reflection in Europe, and eventually, Asia, over the next centuries -- in preparation for the Teachings written by HPB to subjectively empower us during the 20th century for the objective work to be done in the 21st. Apparently, the leaders of the TS and other "old timers" in the movement, while versed in the letter of the theosophical teachings, and in management of study groups are not the real "intuitive student's whom HPB said will understand the underlying meaning of her teachings by "reading between the lines and in the words." Some of us, however, have apparently gotten this message many years ago and have been and are now hard at work following the guidance of HPB, and preparing the new "action messages," that are soon to be disseminated through the mass media to fulfill this mandate. Many of these new mass media approaches, however, are wisely disguised to appear as pure entertainment, with no mention of theosophy, per se (which might turn off many people due to the bad propaganda disseminated by those influenced by the Dugpas during the past century, or by its connotation as a religion)... But, the productions won't be non-theosophical, since they will include all its underlying teachings of karma, reincarnation, and Universal Brotherhood, as "laws of Nature", as well as the means to achieve individual "Self Realization," along with the means to actively realign the Earths internal energies and restore its harmonious ecology, both objectively and subjectively -- using the conjoined "psychical powers latent in man(kind)." (There has to be an underlying purpose for the third object that couldn't be too obvious on its surface, don't you think?) Incidentally, some of us have individually received these messages since around 1976 on purely subjective levels, or by direct teachings from living "agents" of the Masters -- since there are many dangers if prematurely revealed publicly. Therefore, be assured, the Masters are not entirely "silent." And, since the recent full moon at the winter solstice, with the moon at perigee and the sun at apogee, along with the planetary alignment, was a sign that the spiritual cycle is in close phase with the material cycle, the Masters can reach us on the mind level very easily now (and will be around for at least the next few decades, I would assume). Those that can hear, will hear, and those that can see, will see... So, stay tuned --you intuitive theosophists... Our time is yet to come... And, soon. On a more mundane level... Naturally, the high costs and skills involved in such media penetration would necessarily require the efforts of professional people with broad media knowledge, and who are also theosophists (whether or not members of the TS or other theosophical groups) -- in order to raise the immense funds needed, and to carry out the necessarily highly skilled work. Much of this has been prepared in thought, plans, blueprints and "treatments" over the past 25 years, and is now ready for initiation in physical reality. I, for one, have been active on the Internet long before it became the world wide web, and active in the mass entertainment media long before there were satellite transmissions or cable television, and have always recognized their potentials for theosophical messages since I first picked up the SD over forty years ago and filled two copies with margin notes leading to my theory of ABC (see: http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/) and the writing of the theosophically based Solarworld Chronicles, a series of theatrical and television movies (now, with current desktop super computer technologies, capable of being transmitted directly over the Internet) that are now ready for preproduction development. There are also many other allied projects of a worldwide reconstructive nature proposed by me and other "professional" theosophists (in the ULT declaration sense), also now ready for "blueprinting" in the Solarworld Chronicles, as well as physical development when the time is ripe. Some of the preparatory work to set the stage (also of a theosophical nature as well as disguised as pure entertainment) has already been produced by other "underground" theosophical workers such as Spielberg, Lucas, Roddenberry, Kubrick, Bradbury, etc., along with a slew of other writers, producers and directors in all media. So, back to the future... Those of us who wish to take part in, or contribute to, or are interested in such new and upcoming efforts should search on the world wide web, and see how this is being done on many levels and with many parallel projects by various theosophical thinkers (overt theosophists or not) who are guided by the Masters and their teachings. To get an inkling of what I've had in mind for the past 20 years, you might start with my web page at: http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/solwldcry stposter.html With no expectations, I would appreciate anyone interested in further information as to how they can contribute along these lines, to directly contact me by e-mail. I am particularly interested in talking to theosophical ly oriented writers, producers, directors, production designers, artists, managers, technologists, computer graphicists, etc. -- with professional experience or useful connections -- as well as those who have contacts with such people or with other "theosophists" having direct or indirect access to substantial sums of money (for investment purposes, if not direct contributions). LHM -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 8 19:51:35 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA01646 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:49:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: Samblo@cs.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:45:47 EST Subject: Re: Theos-World Internet Use To: theos-talk@theosophy.com CC: LeonMaurer@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 67 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com In reply to the post of Leon Maurer, Leon I am a television Producer at the Community Television channel level in Sacramento Ca., With five years experience in all areas as well as an "Ace" camera, technical director,Director, Editor, etc. I have two "Western Area Video Excellence" awards as well as several "Producer of The Year" awards. I have had an interest in Theosophy since the mid-seventies. I have accumulated a library of over 400 volumes on Theosophy and the publishments of notable members. I was a member of The New Acropolis which Martin Leiderman founded it on the West coast in Los Angeles. I have sent four of my Productions to Martin in November 1999. I suggested at the time the suggestion that Theosophy should take advantage of the many Community Television stations around the country. As the use is free of charge, the only cost is that of the Master Footage Master. Theosophical members may take the television production classes and produce their own shows once certified in the following: Single chip camera, Studio Production, it is beneficial to also take the Editing and Newtek Toaster classes. Theosophy as an organization may produce internally 30 min. programs and submit for bimonthly airing through the "provider" clause which is a member of the Community Channel who is also a current certified member of Theosophy. If it desirable, any Officer or member may post a request at the station asking for a volunteer producer to produce the programs, the producer would bare the responsibility for assembling the crew members for the productions. also "Provider" theosophical members must reside in the County in which the Community Channel is located. I have hope in vain to someday see The Story of Theosophy, as told by It's Friend's (al la Mead) placed before the American public. Feel free to respond to :Samblo@cs.com John H. Maxfield -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 8 22:41:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA19328 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 22:34:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <38780D16.87253535@focusonit.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:52:46 +0530 From: Manjusha Varma X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "theos-talk@theosophy.com" Subject: Theos-World Article by Leon-Maurer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com The observations and suggestions made by Leon Maurer is extremely interesting and has touched an inner chord of approval and acceptence from somewhere within. Though if someone asks for proof to substantiate it to the exoteric self it would be impossible. I would think that this is all a process of relearning of things that are already known to our inner self but which are not acceptable to the reasoning of our logical mind. This is because, to use an analogy, how can you expect a child, who has just learnt to write the alphabet, to write long and coherent sentences. That intermediate process of learning is what theosphy is all about. And to that effect the consideration and learning of the Third Object has great relevance. Because how can one travel without any transportation. I feel such articles are a great booster to the tenets and percepts laid by theososphy. Regards, Manjusha -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sat Jan 8 22:56:44 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA19548 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 22:35:33 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000108202229.00bc8150@theosophy.com> X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:24:29 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: Theos-World Re: Search (France) Cc: "xavier gavila" In-Reply-To: <20000107131708.3468.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Hi. Perhaps someone on the theos-talk mailing list might have some information for you. (I'll post your message there.) Anyone with any information might post to the list and send a cc: to Xavier. -- Eldon Tucker At 02:17 PM 1/7/2000 +0100, you wrote: >--- xavier gavila a écrit: > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I'm living in France and I'm looking for Robert > > Fludd's books. > > > > > You can contact me at xaviergavila@yahoo.fr. > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Achetez, vendez! À votre prix! Sur > > http://encheres.yahoo.fr > > > >___________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Achetez, vendez! À votre prix! Sur http://encheres.yahoo.fr -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 02:05:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id CAA10550 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 02:01:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-ID: <003501bf5a80$24700ca0$6e0ac5a9@azstarnet.com> From: "D.Caldwell/M.Graye" To: "Caldwell, Daniel H." Subject: Theos-World "Do the Mahatmas Exist?" by A.P. Sinnett Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 01:00:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/index.htm I've just added to the archives the following item: "Do the Mahatmas Exist?" by A.P. Sinnett [Reprinted from Light (London), March 3, 1894, p. 107.] This is an extremely interesting article written by the major receipient of THE MAHATMA LETTERS. Daniel H. Caldwell BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES ONLINE http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/index.htm -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 12:46:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA24130 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:34:55 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000109102502.00bac550@theosophy.com> X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:30:30 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Theosophy World Editor Subject: Theos-World Re: submission Cc: Joshua N Pritikin In-Reply-To: <19991222131139.C6072@eq1062.wks.na.deuba.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Joshua: The online magazine is sent out monthly via email, then put online in ascii format. As time permits, it's converted into html, but the last time that was done was about a year ago. Since what you've sent is just a note with a reference to your site, rather than an article, I'll report the message to the theos-talk mailing list, associated with THEOSOPHY WORLD. Perhaps that will generate some discussion. Also, since you're not currently subscribed, I'd ask anyone posting a reply to include a cc: to you as well. -- Eldon Tucker At 01:11 PM 12/22/1999 -0500, you wrote: >How does your online magazine work? > >I am trying to make known the writings at: > > http://why-compete.org > >I think you will find it very much of interest to theosophists. > >Thanks! > >-- >"Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." > via, but not speaking for Deutsche Bank -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 13:01:09 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA25448 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:50:19 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000109103133.00bcde20@theosophy.com> X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:46:32 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Theosophy World Editor Subject: Theos-World Re: theosophy Cc: "Martin, Leslie" In-Reply-To: <20F2F2648490D311936B00A0C95D162309E321@SCCNT2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com At 07:08 PM 1/6/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hi I am interested in sacred geometry and theosophy >my e mail is IDOBUVIZ@hotmail.com >Please send me any info regarding this topic Leslie: There are some reference books that were cited in THE SECRET DOCTRINE, like "The Source of Measures" by Sinner. Another good book was "The Mathematics of the Cosmic Mind" by L. Gordon Plummer. The book is currently out of print, but will be reissued in a revised and enhanced form by Point Loma Publications in a few months. This book ties theosophical ideas into the inter-relationships of the platonic solids. To read more about the reissue of this book, see the piece on Point Loma Publications in the latest THEOSOPHY WORLD issue at: http://www.theosophy.net/issues.html There are a number of subscribers to the associated mailing list, theos-talk, with a similar interest in the subject, so I'll post your request for information there. (Anyone reading this with ideas, suggested websites, etc, should both post to the list and cc: Leslie.) Some sites that may be related: http://www.mathacademy.com http://www.home.dmv.com/~vincent And a book I'd also highly recommend, is TURBULENT MIRROR: AN ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO CHAOS, THEORY AND THE SCIENCE OF WHOLENESS by John Briggs. It introduces some new mathematical and geometrical symbolism that was unknown in the past century, ideas that are rich in symbolism. -- Eldon Tucker -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 13:41:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id NAA30008 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 13:28:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" To: "AAA-DAL" Subject: Theos-World Re: "What are "neo-theosophists ?" Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: <000201bf5ad6$ffca1c40$1a0e75ce@nwc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Jan 9th Dallas offers for consideration the following thought on Label: "THEOSOPHIST" The term "neo-theosophist" is one that indicates only a time structure that is imposed on the naming of students of THEOSOPHY. There are apparently in some minds the concept of "old student" and "new student." None of Us, or "them," can accurately fall under any labels, as we are all "old souls" and have reincarnated many times, and perhaps we have contacted Theosophy in earlier times and under different names. A such our "position" is largely unknown, even to ourselves. New or old, we are all striving to improve. Theosophy in reviewing the past and identifying the laws of true growth in soul-wisdom serves to help us to advance, each in his own way and at his own pace. It pays no attention to "labels." The designation of THEOSOPHIST ought to be reserved to the Masters of Wisdom who actually PRACTICE IT. We are "attempting" to practice it and learn how to alter our lives and its objectives. All the rest of us are at best "students of Theosophy." Some attempt to practice it, hoping thereby to elevate their own moral natures by using the ETHICS that Theosophy places before us, and the REASONS that it gives for their use. Regardless of designations, none of us can arrogate to ourselves the designation "theosophist." Unless we are indeed devotees and have achieved some eminence in its practice. Then, certainly, such a person or persons would repudiate the designation if attached to them personally. The Buddhist Bhikshu, when offering the teachings of the Buddha always said: "Thus have I heard...." We live currently in a word of labels. And labels have unfortunately the capacity to blur the meaning of anything they designate. They lack accuracy in definition -- and each person is an individual and any designation can only be applied to them by those who truly understand the interior and REAL nature of such a being. We like to place people in " pigeon holes" we have devised. But that is entirely untrue. By using designations we think we are explaining, but in reality we are using a kind of short-hand for our own convenience and hope that others may also adopt it. We may have even borrowed such labels from others. Let us all call ourselves "students of Theosophy." None are yet THEOSOPHISTS. Fortunately THEOSOPHY is NOT a religion, nor do its students pretend to do more than try to understand the philosophy of the "rational explanation of things." I hope this may be of use. There are "definite words for definite things." Dallas dalval@nwc.net -----Original Message----- From: Davis, Fred [mailto:fdavis@texas.net] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:46 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: "What are "neo-theosophists ?" Importance: High Carl and others on BN - I have some points of disagreement with what you have said, but your request for the ability to indicate what you believe without being regarded as intolerant of others should be honored. HOWEVER At the same time, if you must defend your position by using labels of "neo-theosophist" or "psuedo-theosophist" as others on this list have, then your point is not valid. You can not defend you position by implying the labels either ... ... . The teaching can be referenced for sure but the defense should be the message (your understanding of it) and we must each strive to argue from the message not from the authority that we believe stands behind our "own" words. I trust the message if understood from HPB correctly will stand on its own without the "positioning". It is natural to position in a discussion but there are several on the list (at least in their best times) that seek to make the message of HPB (in other words, to the best of their ability the teachings) the point of the discussion and what is really true in that message. Honest students can have different positions on what the message was/is, but if the truth of what the message "is" is placed first ... then name calling is not resorted to. Please look to WQJ article "DOGMATISM IN THEOSOPHY" reprinted in Volume II of "William Q. Judge Theosophical Articles" by Theosophy Company page 221-222. Let me cut a few words from the article: ---- "The Theosophical Society was founded to destroy dogmatism." ... "... H.P.B. ... expresses the hope that the Society might not, after her death, become dogmatic or crystallize on some phase of thought or philosophy, but that it might remain free and open, with its members wise and unselfish." ... "If our effort is to succeed, we must avoid dogmatism in theosophy as much as in anything else, for the moment we dogmatise and insist on our construction of theosophy, that moment we lose sight of Universal Brotherhood and sow the seeds of future trouble." ... "... There is no orthodoxy in our Society ... " ... "But at the same time it is obvious that to enter the Society and then, under our plea of tolerance, assert that theosophy shall not be studied, that the great body of thought and philosophy offered in our literature shall not be investigated, is untheosophical, unpractical, and absurd, for it were to nullify the very object of our organization; it is a dogmatism that flows from negation and indifference. We must study the philosophy and the doctrines offered to us before we are in a position to pass judgement and say that they are not true or that they shall be rejected. To judge or reject before examination is the province of little minds or prejudiced dogmatists." ... "So, then, a member of the Society, no matter how high or low his or her position in its ranks, has the right to promulgate all the philosophical and ethical ideas found in our literature to the best ability possessed, and on one else has the right to object, provided such promulgation is accompanied by a clear statement that it is not authorized or made orthodox by any declaration from the body corporate of the T.S. Our Society must be kept free and open, no matter if, because we refuse to formulate beliefs as a Society, we remain small in number, for we can always be strong in influence. Path, January, 1892 " ---- Let me submit my view that all of this talk about "neo-theosophy" and "psuedo-theosophy" verse what is obvious being presented as "theosophy" is close to a presentation of Orthodoxy and Dogmatism. Margaret Thomas has an interesting book called "Theosophy Vs. Neo-Theosophy" printed by ISIS BOOKS that attempts to compare what is actually taught in the writings about different subjects. This is a more constructive approach than just labeling and "taking one's ball and refusing to play". Let us try to understand each other not defeat each other. I submit that even though Margaret's book makes some strong view points about what many feel was wrong with the theosophical direction that C.W.L. and A.B. took the Theosophical Society ... it presents that view so that one can compare (some what) the difference between what HPB and ML and others taught and what C.W.L. and A.B. and other taught. If you can show the clear light you see in HPB teachings ... then do so, even if that is using a reference from a "psuedo-theosophist" or "neo-theosophist". Seems different groups use those two labels in different ways ... and let me remind you there is some division even in the HPB/WBJ follower groups. The theosophical groups, it would seem, have the same tendency to fragment like the protestants. And if you take out the teaching but just look at the group dynamics ... we theosophist have much more in common with the protestants with how/why their groups split and fight over issues. None protestants (that might think protestants are all wrong anyway) can not see anything but the same Dogmatic teachings (protestants split "in their own view" over dogma "teachings" but to the outsiders it appears the minor points since they basically are the same). Yes my fellow theosophist ... look in the mirror and see if you see yourself in your fellow man. My experience is that theosophy groups (even within Lodges of certain persuasions) many times disagree among themselves (unless the group is dominated by one or a few). To however not discuss the issues, to resort to "labeling" and "name calling" is simply childish and we need to grow up. There is a history in Theosophy that also shows a dark side in the different groups. Most of the darkness I have seen and read about, however, has come from the ignorance at different levels. Some might better call it maturity. Please I beseech each theosophist ... before you start calling for stakes to burn the "psuedo or neo" theosophist as heretics ... think in larger terms ... even if you can only grasp a larger view where some orthodox religious crusade comes along and labels us all "devils". Your view of the label "psuedo" or "neo" might not be so important when you will find on the pile of burning wood next to you that fellow theosophist. If you call me a "neo-theosophist" or a "psuedo-theosophist" then you had better call HPB one too or you have a fight on your hands. If you call me a "Theosophist" then you had better correct your spelling, for to me, I use the "T" in spelling as I would between "self" and "Self" to mean two different things. Self is what I strive for, self is where I am and to reflect Self thru self is the "plan" ... yet what I know I have a far path to go, upward and onward, before that "Plan" will succeed. - Fred Davis --- Current topic is at http://www.blavatsky.net/members/bnstudy/syllabus.htm You are currently subscribed to bn-study as: [dalval@nwc.net] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-bn-study-2334861K@lists.lyris.net -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 15:57:52 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id PAA10028 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:48:38 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000109134110.00bab950@theosophy.com> X-Sender: editor@theosophy.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:42:53 -0800 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com From: Theosophy World Editor Subject: Theos-World Re: theosophy Cc: "Martin, Leslie" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com At 07:08 PM 1/6/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hi I am interested in sacred geometry and theosophy >my e mail is IDOBUVIZ@hotmail.com >Please send me any info regarding this topic Leslie: One additional item on sacred geometry. Under my experimental website: http://www.mahat.com/audio.html there's a slide show / lecture by L. Gordon Plummer entitled "In the Nature of Things," that's of interest. -- Eldon Tucker -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Sun Jan 9 19:07:12 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA29105 for theos-talk-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:00:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: "Free Tibet" To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: theosophy Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:28:05 +1030 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000109103133.00bcde20@theosophy.com> Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com An interesting book also: Trialogues at the Edge of the West - T. Mckenna, R. Sheldrake and ?? I can't remember. Worth a Look The ' ' -----Original Message----- From: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com [mailto:owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com]On Behalf Of Theosophy World Editor Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 5:17 AM To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Cc: Martin, Leslie Subject: Theos-World Re: theosophy At 07:08 PM 1/6/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hi I am interested in sacred geometry and theosophy >my e mail is IDOBUVIZ@hotmail.com >Please send me any info regarding this topic Leslie: There are some reference books that were cited in THE SECRET DOCTRINE, like "The Source of Measures" by Sinner. Another good book was "The Mathematics of the Cosmic Mind" by L. Gordon Plummer. The book is currently out of print, but will be reissued in a revised and enhanced form by Point Loma Publications in a few months. This book ties theosophical ideas into the inter-relationships of the platonic solids. To read more about the reissue of this book, see the piece on Point Loma Publications in the latest THEOSOPHY WORLD issue at: http://www.theosophy.net/issues.html There are a number of subscribers to the associated mailing list, theos-talk, with a similar interest in the subject, so I'll post your request for information there. (Anyone reading this with ideas, suggested websites, etc, should both post to the list and cc: Leslie.) Some sites that may be related: http://www.mathacademy.com http://www.home.dmv.com/~vincent And a book I'd also highly recommend, is TURBULENT MIRROR: AN ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO CHAOS, THEORY AND THE SCIENCE OF WHOLENESS by John Briggs. It introduces some new mathematical and geometrical symbolism that was unknown in the past century, ideas that are rich in symbolism. -- Eldon Tucker -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Mon Jan 10 20:14:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA06524 for theos-talk-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:58:42 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f Message-ID: <387A5F10.171A5D30@syd.net.au> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:37:05 +1100 From: Lucio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Behaviour of Masses References: <3.0.3.32.20000106234718.007a4490@mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com Reply-To: theos-talk@theosophy.com Dear RAM I was born in Italy and came to Australia when I was 20 I was the 12 when This hapened. And Jiddu even at that time was very disenchanted with theosophy. Mussolini was a great poet his path of dictatorship was chosen by him . as he thought that the masses where not yet ready for true democracy. I do not favor fascism but....... looking around today I wander it it has ever been tried . Jiddu tried hard but his message reached many empty empty sculls everywhere ramadoss@eden.com wrote: > Some time ago, I read an interesting incident. > > It was during the time when Mussolini was in power and was very popular in > the country. > > Jiddu Krishnamurti happened to schedule a series of talks in Rome. On the > first day of his talk, he was very surprised. The lecture hall was full and > the front rows were occupied by the top military brass in their shiny > uniforms with their medals and other bureaucrats of Mussolini > administration. The turn out of the military and government bureaucrats > surprised even Krishnamurti. > > It appears there was some rumors that Mussolini was interested in > Krishnamurti's philosophy and this triggered the immediate interest of the > military brass and bureaucrats and it appears they turned out to hear him > in the hope the turnout will reach the ears of Mussolini and be his good > books. > > Lo and behold, the next day, at the talk all this crowd disappeared. There > were few members of the public who were really interested in what > Krishnamurti had to say. The disappearance of military brass and > bureaucrats was due their having found out that after all Mussolini was not > interested in Krishnamurti's philosophy. > > This incident simply shows very few are really interested in philosophy. > The crowd -- in particular bureaucrats -- generally show interest for > reasons other than real commitment to philosophy. > > As an analogy, if there were to be a *rumor* that the Theosophical Adepts > are interested in Internet, may be all the bureacrats and others may > suddenly show an interest in Internet because of it could please the > Adepts!!! Just a speculation. > > Any one listening???? > > mkr > > -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com > > Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and > teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of > "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. -- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com Letters to the Editor, and discussion of theosophical ideas and teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. From owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com Mon Jan 10 21:31:04 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pippin.imagiware.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id VAA18084 for theos-talk-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:29:11 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: pippin.imagiware.com: majordom set sender to owner-theos-talk@theosophy.com using -f From: ramadoss@eden.com Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000110212351.