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Re: theos-talk --- Subtle Psychology - Arya Samaj and The TS-6

Jul 06, 2012 04:07 AM
by Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti

Dear Mr Sufilight,
Please let the total story be given out. Wait and see.
we will discuss the whole matter.
Fraternally, Dr N C R .

Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.

Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)

Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 

Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584

From: "M. Sufilight" <>
Sent: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:33:07 
To: <>
Subject: Re: theos-talk --- Subtle Psychology - Arya Samaj and The TS-6





      Dear friends

My views are:

Interesting words about Arya Samaj (AS)...

I ask I the following conclusion true???

The conclusion about the Theosophical Society is that it welcomes all kinds a persons regardless of belief, if they at least seek to promote altruism. And nobody is being pressured to follow any dogma or religious system within the TS. 


However on the other hand it seems that one in fact are being pressurized to follow Orthodox Theosophy!

How can this be reconciled I wonder....?


Some extra additional words to use in contrast with the hey-day of the 1920'ties of the Theosophical Society.......and even to be used to promote altruism.

The german break-away theosophist Rudolf Steiner said really interestingly the following about the TS:


Dornach, June 6, 1920

"Why am I telling you these things, my dear friends? So that you may not take the matter too lightly. For in our anthroposophical spiritual science it is verily not a question of the sort of things which go on, for instance in the Theosophical Society. That the Theosophical Society is not to be taken seriously is clearly to be seen from the fact that one day it came to accept by a majority the whole farce of Krishnamurti as the reborn Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Such a comedy is only based on hypocrisy, even though this hypocrisy be taken seriously by many. But what should grow on the soil of Anthroposophy, of spiritual science, should be a search for truth, sincere through and through. It is therefore something which, as the Catholic Church is well aware, penetrates behind the scenes, to what must not be discovered if that church is to maintain the dominion in the world to which she lays claim."

Rudolf Steiner himself - can, however, without much doubt be said to have ended with doing the same - replacing J. Krishnamurti's name with his own. The big central difference, as I see it, being that the Constitution of the Athroposophical Society was Sectarian biased in its content and directly turned R. Steiner into THE Guru among Guru's. Just read the present day Constitution of the Athroposophical Society:

The Statutes of the Anthoposophical Society

Principles of the Anthroposophical Society

The End of the Farces:

How to end tha Farce or Farces?

Now I claim that to end this farce or these farces - one will have to realise that in these decades and years of 1878 to 1934 (for instance - or perhaps even the years 1875-2012)  the Science of Psychology was in its infancy in the Western countries and in many other illitterate countries as well.

AND, - one will then, after that, have to realise that the Psychological Science - known as the Science on Subtle Mind Control - is central to the problems which has occurred in the past decades of the existence of the Theosophical Society. 

Is this not true and very central even today year 2012....?

Science is not belief.


"A short definition of the science on Subtle Mind Control.

The science on Subtle Mind Control is shortly formulated the science on the

aspect of the use of Subtle Mind Control in religious organisations, and other

organisations by a leader or a group of leaders, and its damaging results and

how to avoid them. The science on Subtle Mind Control is about when Subtle Mind

Control is used by a leader or a group of leaders in organisations, especially

here a religious organisations on behalf of members in such an organisation. And

with regard to religious organisations when such a leader or leaders use it

while they in more or less subtle manner install fear, phobia or phobias,

psychological blockages or condition various members of their organisation

through the promotion of a religious doctrine. The science on Subtle Mind

Control is also called Coercive Persuasion, Thought Reform, and other names or

terms. The last two terms can also be used when one like to expand the

definition to cover the science about Brain-Washing and the use of violence, not

only with regard to religious organisations but all kinds of interactions

between human beings and life. This is the central formulation and definition of

the science on Subtle Mind Control, although there are other aspects to it. Here

my focus is on the religious organisations and New Age organisations and groups.

More detailed info follows later in the below." (From Part 2) (Part 1) (Part  2) (Part  3)


Sometimes I wonder what the MAIN key obstacle to Christianity is?

And is this MAIN key obstacle to Christianity - the MAIN Karmic problem on this planet? If so, the it must be very important!

Is it the authoritarian use of Christian Dogma and what I call "Subtle Mind Control" ?

(See for instance books by Steve Hassan, William Sargant, Kurt Lewin anf even Maragareth Singer and of course others) 

Or is it the fact that people - as in many kinds of religions - simply - perhaps often out of fear and ignorance - do what the poster by Fox Mulder in the X-Files so very much distinguish  it self with: "I WANT TO BELIEVE!" (In contrast to I WANT TO KNOW!)


Here we have to poster I Want to believe - A central symbol on the X-Files series and in fact a Symbol on all the UFO-hullabaloo and noice:



Or is it simply a lack of a philosophical mind - or - just psychological problems?

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti 

  To: Theos-talk 

  Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:38 AM

  Subject: theos-talk Arya Samaj and The TS-6

Arya Samaj -6It is a

  misconception that we accept as members Muslims, Jains and others who have not

  yet got rid of hatred and contempt. We

  never accepted those who do not clearly declare that they will allow all men to

  worship according to their convictions and will treat them as brothers just as

  they do their co-religionists. It is true that very few Muslims and Christians

  have joined the TS, just as few people have joined the AS.

My personal

  religious or, as you may say, irreligious views have nothing to do with the TS,

  for I never ask anyone to accept my views. As I have said above, our Society is

  neither a religious or a communal body.

We have proved

  our devotion to you by affiliating the branches of our society to the AS and

  made you the Supreme Head of it. The AS has done nothing in return, but you now

  openly preach against the TS and say it is a hostile body, which it is not. I

  fully believe that I have answered all your objections and express my sincere

  desire that friendly relations may subsist between you and us. 

If you so desire

  we will, beginning with this year, remove your name from our papers and rules

  as the Supreme Head of the TS of the As, and notify to our friends in England

  and America that you do not wish to remain such Supreme Head. But I shall not

  do that till you tell this to me in writing.

Swamiji made a reply to this

  letter in his one dated 17 March 1881 wherein he says:

If you have not

  changed your opinion, then you must have concealed it. I know it as a fact that

  when you talked to Mulji Thakersay, you did believe in God, but you did in Meerut shows that the fact

  is quite the contrary. 

The AS believes

  in the Vedas. There is no change in its aims. Brotherhood, which is your chief

  ideal, can not be achieved in practice, so long as religious prejudice and

  hatred do not completely disappear.

The object of

  the diploma was only that the TS wished to become a branch of AS. As that thing is no longer so, what is the

  use of talking about it? Moreover, I

  simply acknowledged receipt of the diploma but I did not accept your


I do not wish to

  found a new religion. I only preach the eternal Vedic Faith. -- I do not care

  for any position except that of a preacher. You mention me sometimes as a

  member, sometimes as something else. I do not want any credit or praise. What I

  want is itself is a great thing and I hope my work may be successful by God's


" One of the Hindu

  Founders of the Parent Theosophical Society " in his observations on the

  contradictions found in the articles published in The Arya, Pandit Dayanand's

  organ in April and May 1882, comments thus, after bringing out the

  inconsistencies made therein:

This very same

  Wisdom-Religion, and none other, they (TS) are professing now, in 1882.

  Certainly the friends of the TS are indebted to the Swami for proving by the

  publication of the President-Founder's and other letters to him of the year

  1878, how identical are the Founders' views at that period with those they are

  confessing today. And, if one chose to go back even of the Society's

  foundation, the exposition of the Esoteric Doctrine, or "Wisdom-Religion"

  of antiquity, which is made in Isis

  Unveiled -began prior to that foundation- will be found to differ, in no

  substantial respect, from the exposition that Colonel Olcott has made in all

  his addresses throughout the annual tour from which he has not yet returned to

  head-quarters. When it is PROVED to them

  that (a) Swami Dayanad Saraswati's

  interpretations of the Vedas contain that very "Wisdom-Religion"; (b)

  that from the time of his publication of his first work on the religion of the

  Vedas, and his exegesis of its secret meanings, he has never contradicted

  himself upon any point; and (c) that from the first pages of his Sathyartha Prakasika - his Yajurveda Bhashya, &c., down to the

  last page of the latest issue of his Veda

  Bhashya - he teaches an identical

  doctrine, then will it be time to expect the Theosophists, to be his disciples

  - as upon original misconceptions they were ready to be - and accept their

  teachings from no other "Maha Muni." --- During the last year(1881) from April to December, Colonel Olcott was

  at Ceylon, and therefore, could not have been at Meerut. It was in September

  1880, - more than 20 months ago - that the Pandit Dayanand Saraswati was told

  plainly the truth (as he had been told before, and even written to, from America,

  when the Society had at last learnt what kind of God was the Iswar preached by him) - to wit; that

  the Founders neither then believed, nor ever had believed, in a personal God. the Swami, though himself denying most

  emphatically his belief in a personal deity, (the witnesses of the Founders are

  two English theosophists who talked with him at Benares),

  nevertheless endows his "Iswar" with all the finite attributes of the

  Jewish Jehovah. But why should the

  learned Swami have waited for over twenty

  months before protesting?- - - The Founders - as the whole public have

  known for seven years - firmly believe in Karma,

  which is but another name for that mysterious law of Absolute Justice which

  punishes sin and rewards virtue. But

  they refuse belief in a personal God,

  whose sole occupation seems to be to keep himself 'happy' and 'joyous'. With

  "Karma" as an active principle, and the term 'evolution' instead of

  'creation' used, the "Eternal Divine Essence," which Colonel Olcott

  speaks of, in his letter of June 5, 1878, when he commits the error of

  mistaking Swamiji's "Iswar" - as depicted to him by Swami's followers

  - for that "Essence" or PARABRAHM - becomes necessarily an impersonal Deity. The Founders maintain that they do believe in the very Divine PRINCIPLE

  taught in the Vedas; in that Principle

  which is described at the outset in the Rigveda Samhita - which is

  "neither entity nor non-entity," but an ABSTRACT ENTITY, which is no

  entity, liable to be described by either words or attributes. And as they entirely fail to recognize this

  eternal, All-Pervading Principle in the "Iswar" of the arya Samajists

  - they run away from it. The Swami knew their profession of faith since January

  1878. Again, I ask, why did he wait to

  protest for over three years, and never said anything at that time?---- 

I assert that

  the PARABRAHM of the Vedanthins and the "Adi_Buddha" of the northern

  Buddhists are identical. Both are Abstract Principles, or non-entities;

  Makita and Nirvana being their immutable states; hence the re-absorption of the

  human spark of Parabrahm or

  Adi-Buddha - called the vulgar "soul" - into the Parent Flame whence

  it proceeded - an end so eagerly sought for, under the synonymous terms of

  "Moksha" and "Nirvana".- --- I close. The various and many accusations

  against the Founders contained in the Arya will be contradicted officially, and upon documentary

  evidence, and proven utterly false, in the July number of this journal, should

  the President-Founder reach Bombay

  in time. Otherwise in the following number."

Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.

Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)

Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 

Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584

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