Re: theos-talk Re:off topic-- Lama Dorgiev
Jan 25, 2012 03:18 PM
by M. Sufilight
A few views of mine...
But, I suggest, let us not make poems on such things, when only know the
half of the story and the activities of the affairs are known.
What people did in the past of possible mistakes before year 1875 I am not
concerned with when speaking about Balvatsky and her role in the
Theosophical Society. (See also
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924029172983#page/n161/mode/2up - p.
The Masters ever seek to operate within the universal Law of Karma - they do
always seek to help avoid anyone to foolishly seek to bypass the Law of
Karma by writing their own human made (and most often selfish) version of it
on a piece of paper - by the use of so-called Wiise political legislation -
so to effectively psychologically condition humanity ---- and then go and
call that non-sectarian altruism. Altruism - non-conditioned is what is
sought promoted - not the opposite. They seek not like others do a constant
Westernized political influence - under the disguise of altruism.
The Masters employ agents...
In the famous Shannon letter to H. S. Olcott from Master KH - the words
"You will be told that the chief originator of most, if not of all these
disturbances is H.P.B. This is not so; though her presence in England has,
of course, a share in them. But the largest share rests with others, whose
serene unconsciousness of their own defects is very marked, and much to be
blamed. One of the most valuable effects of Upasikaâs mission is that it
drives men to self-study, and destroys in them blind servility for persons.
Observe your own case for example. But your revolt, good friend, against her
âinfallibilityââas you once thought itâhas gone too far, and you have been
unjust to her, for which I am sorry to say you will have to suffer hereafter
along with others. Just now, on deck, your thoughts about her were dark and
sinful, and so I find the moment a fitting one to put you on your guard. . .
âTry to remove such misconceptions as you will find, by kind persuasion and
an appeal to the feelings of loyalty to the cause of truth, if not to us.
Make all these men feel that we have no favourites, nor affections for
persons, but only for their good acts and humanity as a whole. But we employ
agentsâthe best available. Of these, for the last thirty years, the chief
has been the personality known as H.P.B. to the world (but otherwise to us).
Imperfect and very âtroublesome,â no doubt, she proves to some;
nevertheless, there is no likelihood of our finding a better one for years
to come, and your Theosophists should be made to understand it *"
"âI have also noted your thoughts about the âSecret Doctrine.â Be assured
that what she has not annotated from scientific and other works we have
given or suggested to her. Every mistake or erroneous notion corrected and
explained by her from the works of other theosophists, was corrected by me,
or under my instruction. It is a more valuable work than its predecessorâan
epitome of occult truths that will make it a source of information and
instruction for the earnest student for long years to come. . . . . â"
"â. . . [This letter] . . . .is merely given you as a warning and a guide;
to others, as a warning only; for you may use it discreetly, if needs be. .
. .Prepare, however, to have the authenticity of the present denied in
(Signed) K. H.â
[Extracts correctly copied.âH. S. OLCOTT.]"
(That is "no likelihood of our finding a better one for years to
come"......And also --- therefore the Secret Doctrine was not a book to last
only 37 years as some Seekers after Truth - would like it to be...The book
was written by Blavatsky while she learned to read the Akasa with numerous
citations in it - and - with the help of the 2 Ray Master - Master KH and
also Morya. Other Mahatma Letters exists on this. - Strange as it may sound
to some, it is not so to others...Smile. And it was no D.K. who wrote large
parts of it as claimed by some. There are sufficient documentation going
against this view. --- The book seem outdated no doubt for those who prefer
systematic intellecutal Westernized books - and who dislike books that
requires more than mere entertainment - and - a books that seek to awaken
the intutition in the invidual (Atma-Vidya) by the use of the 7 Keys to the
But all the above are just my views. I do hope they are helpful to some
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Condick" <jpcondick2011@bfT25jeozfcHqfTjNdiU6mIMilmNI-mD0rbIiCel5IOojHIEtWAZCby_hTlTZ4e1NhqYJ4bvkwV0VZN_Q74GbYiC.yahoo.invalid>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: theos-talk Re:off topic-- Lama Dorgiev
One of course recalls 'let America be free' as peeled forth by Count St
Germain shortly to become Master Rakoczi. Also of the magnificent courage of
HPB shooting the Papists, as a volunteer at the battle of Mentana! Moreover,
of Lord Ripon and his Councillors, behind the veil, that is. JPC.
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:08:32 +0100
Subject: Re: theos-talk Re:off topic-- Lama Dorgiev
A few additional views might be helpful.
I caught this...about Russia versus Dorgiev...
Mahatma Letter 4 - 1880:
"More and more a dead formalism is gaining ground, and I am truly happy to
find so unexpected an ally in a quarter where, hitherto there have not
been too many Â among the highly educated classes of English Society. A
crisis, in a certain sense, is upon us now, and must be met. I might say
two crises Â one, the Society's, the other for Tibet. For, I may tell you
in confidence, that Russia is gradually massing her forces for a future
invasion of that country under the pretext of a Chinese War. If she does
not succeed it will be due to us; and herein, at least we will deserve
your gratitude. You see then, that we have weightier matters than small
societies to think about; yet, the T.S. must not be neglected. The affair
has taken an impulse, which, if not well guided, might beget very evil
issues. Recall to mind the avalanches of your admired Alps, that you have
often thought about, and remember that at first their mass is small and
their momentum little. A trite comparison you may say, but I cannot think
of a better illustration, when viewing the gradual aggregation of trifling
events, growing into a menacing destiny for the Theos. Soc. It came quite
forcibly upon me the other day as I was coming down the defiles of
Kouenlun Â Karakorum you call them Â and saw an avalanche tumble. I had
gone personally to our chief to submit Mr. Hume's important offer, and was
crossing over to Lhadak on my way home. What other speculations might have
followed I cannot say. But just as I was taking advantage of the awful
stillness which usually follows such cataclysm, to get a clearer view of
the present situation and the disposition of the "mystics" at Simla, I was
rudely recalled to my senses. A familiar voice, as shrill as the one
attributed to Saraswati's peacock Â which, if we may credit tradition,
frightened off the King of the Nagas Â shouted along the currents "Olcott
has raised the very devil again! . . . The Englishmen are going crazy. . .
. Koot Hoomi, come quicker and help me!" Â and in her excitement forgot
she was speaking English. I must say, that the "Old Lady's" telegrams do
strike one like stones from a catapult! "
Only 10-20 years later there was still a Russian plot brewing....
Alexander Berzin's website says ---- :
"For example, in 1893, the Buryat Mongol physician Piotr Badmaev submitted
a plan to Czar Alexander III for bringing parts of the Qing Empire under
Russian sway, including Outer and Inner Mongolia and Tibet. He proposed
extending the Trans-Siberian Railway from the Buryat homeland at Lake
Baikal through Outer and Inner Mongolia to Gansu, China, next to the
Tibetan border. When completed, he would organize, with Buryat help, an
uprising in Tibet that would allow Russia to annex the country. Badmaev
also proposed establishing a Russian trading company in Asia. Count Sergei
Yulgevich Witte, Russian Finance Minister from 1882 to 1903, supported
BadmaevÂs two plans, but Czar Alexander accepted neither of them."
"Dorjiev and Czar Nicholas II
The Buryat Mongol monk Agvan Dorjiev (1854-1938) studied in Lhasa Tibet
from 1880 and eventually became one of the Master Debate Partners
(Assistant Tutors) of the Thirteenth Dalai Lama. He also became the Dalai
LamaÂs most trusted political advisor.
The Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1890 had established Sikkim as a British
protectorate. The Tibetans did not acknowledge the convention, and were
uncomfortable with both British and Chinese designs on their country.
Thus, in 1899, Dorjiev visited Russia to see if he could secure help to
counter these threats. Dorjiev was a friend of Badmaev and hoped that
RussiaÂs expansionist policy in Northeast Asia at the expense of China
would extend to the Himalayan region. Count Witte received him on this and
his next several visits. On behalf of the Buryat and Kalmyk Mongols living
in St. Petersburg, Dorjiev also petitioned permission for building a
Kalachakra temple there. Although the Russian authorities were not
interested in either proposal, Dorjiev sent a letter to the Dalai Lama
reporting that the prospects for assistance looked hopeful.
At first, the Dalai Lama and his ministers were hesitant but, on his
return to Lhasa, Dorjiev convinced the Dalai Lama to turn to Russia for
protection. He argued that Russia was the Northern Kingdom of Shambhala,
the legendary land that safeguarded the Kalachakra teachings, and that
Czar Nicholas II was the incarnation of Tsongkhapa, the founder of the
Gelug tradition. As evidence, he pointed to the CzarÂs protection of the
Gelug tradition among the Buryats, Kalmyks, Tuvinian Turks in the Russian
Empire. Swayed by his argument, the Dalai Lama dispatched him back to
Russia in 1900."
The Panchen Lama is the spiritual head of the Gelugpa Buddhists. The Dalai
Lama is merely their political and administrative head. The Dalai Lama
institution is a - later invention - and there was originally not a
political institution in the Gelugpa Tradition. The Occultists and
Esotericist do most often not meddle directly in politics - but may in
times of crisis intervene and seek to propose helpful activities. We make
no unwilling slaves...and seek to avoid Psychological Conditioning or
Coerceing the individual by political legislations on a piece of paper (a
man made Law of Karma - called altruism) - and by the use of weapons,
police, wallet laywers, and judges. - You may correct me if I am wrong.
ADEPTS AND POLITICS (see primarily Editors Note)
"Neither the Tibetan nor the modern Hindu Mahatmas for the matter of that,
ever meddle with politics, though they may bring their influence to bear
upon more than one momentous question in the history of a nationÂtheir
mother country especially. "
"If any Adepts have influenced Washington or brought about the great
American Revolution, it was not the ÂTibetan MahatmasÂ at any rate; for
these have never shown much sympathy with the Pelings of whatever Western
race, except as forming a part of Humanity in general."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Back to Top]
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application