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Re: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011

Apr 05, 2011 10:34 PM
by Augoeides-222

Thanks, I did read the Pelletier Commentary letter. I stand with Pelletier. I stand with the "17 Day" Marker. I stand with Judge. I agree with the assertion that Exhibit "A" is a real evidence and should be published and forensically examined to the "Nth" degree by the best experts. I recall that Katrina stated that she has "skimmed" or "quickly skimmed" the "TJC" . I totally AGREE with all the words of Madame Blavatsky and her preomened advice to Judge and others. I thank Ernest Pelletier for his contribution to Truth! 

"Ingratitude is and Occult Crime!" There was never a higher degree of "ingratitude" than those who unceremoniously, callously, ambitiously and scurriously "evicted" the "Solitary AGENT" of the Mahatma's from Adyar, a betrayal that will stand forever as a stain on all who had participation and augment which will remain ignominious in the Akash for all time. 

"Ambition"mentioned is the key word that aptly indicates the motive, opportunity and means available to Olcutt, Besant, Ndk and those others at Adyar then and today who continue the "LIE" which replaced the TRUTH ( guess who that was) . Can anyone foolishly believe that Theosophy remained there 1 second after they commited the "Occult Criminal Act"? I don't, and never will. "See Now the Truth that you Fear!" Who can escape Karma? 

The 'multiple Wills" was very interesting it evidences the the "ambitions" to grab "power" that played out, it is laughable and sadly sordid. I once read how Judges wife immediately discarded the "Vail of Blavatsky's ashes" into the garbage when W. Q. Judge died. What does that tell you about how injurious and painful it was for them to endure such insult? How many other received a vial of Madame Blavatskys ashes? What became of those vials and those who received them? 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jdmsoares" <> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 4:07:54 PM 
Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011 

Dear Govert, all friends, 

While not wanting to enter in any personal exchange of arguments, I must 
say the following: 

Ernest Pelliter himself wrote a commentary about the review made by 
Brett Forray. Once again, you can read Pelliter commentary at 
< > . 

Allow me to recommend reading the following text published in our 

Corresponding With India On Ethics 

Two Letters to Mrs. Radha Burnier, One from Her 

The direct links are: 
< > and 
< > . 

In the text, one can read in a letter to Radha Burnier, dated April 
2006, the following: 

"So my respectful request to you â which I intend to renew in 
the years ahead if necessary â is that, as a sign of respect for 
truth and for the theosophical movement, the Theosophical Society, 
Adyar, re-examine the Judge Case and show any proofs of his guilt â 
or else declare him innocent. It will be also very important that all 
information and documents referring to the Judge Case be made available 
to independent researchers. 

That will mean indeed a significant contribution to the mutual 
understanding between the different groups and institutions of the 
theosophical movement as a whole. 

The search for truth, truthfulness and mutual respect are parts of our 
common ground." 

Thus we can see that already in 2006 it had been asked to the President 
of the Adyar Society that the archives could be opened and "all 
information and documents referring to the Judge Case be made available 
to independent researchers." 

Finally, the "Justice to Judge" initiative is promoted by 
INDEPENDENT STUDENTS from various countries, as it is very clearly 
expressed in the text "Justice to Judge in 2011 - The Sixth Year 
of Open Letters to India < > 

"For the sixth time since April 2006, independent students from 
various countries will be sending on 13 April 2011 a number of open 
letters to the President of the Adyar Theosophical Society, Ms. Radha 
Burnier. The headquarters of the Society is in Chennai, India. 

The students will be asking her to help stop a century old injustice by 
re-examining the Adyar "Case" against Mr. William Q. Judge. 
Those who have an interest in the future of the theosophical movement 
are invited to join the initiative, which is a celebration of its 
dynamic unity. 

Restoring justice with regard to William Judge does more than showing 
that Adyar Society cares about Ethics and Truth. It gives a large 
portion of the movement a better chance to benefit from the example of 
Judge's life and from the wisdom present in his books. It opens the 
way to a more intense life of the theosophical effort, by promoting a 
better knowledge of its history and by destroying the illusion of 
separateness. It stimulates the perception that the movement as a whole 
is in fact one single magnetic field; that such an aura or energy-field 
has a center; and that its living center is related to the 
"blood" - the skandhas and magnetism donated by its main 

This is what is really important. 

I invite you all to join the initiative, which is a celebration of the 
dynamic unity of the theosophical movement. 

More information see: "Justice to Judge in 2011 - The Sixth Year 
of Open Letters to India < > 

Best regards, Joaquim 

--- In , "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> 
> Dear Joaquim, 
> Thank you for linking to Pelletier's response to the reviewers of his 
book The Judge Case. 
> I re-read Brett Forray's review in Theosophical History XI/2. Though I 
have not read The Judge Case it looks to me that Forray's review is 
even-handed, informative and critical of Pelletier in a very reasonable 
way. His main contention is that Pelletier's book "is solely intended to 
exonerate Mr. Judge's role in this drama" and that it "makes no attempt 
to impartially portray the many-sided views of this period." 
Unfortunately Pelletier's response misses many of the points Forray 
makes. If possible Forray's review should be made available for those 
interested to see for themselves. 
> Important to the "Justice to Judge" campaign is Forray's call to have 
someone send over to Madras or Mumbai to inspect the crucial Judge to 
Khandalava letter of September 1884. 
> Your list with on-line items is interesting, but misses a good article 
giving a neutral synopsis of the controversy. So far the most helpful 
historical rendering of the case comes from the historian Arthur 
Nethercot in his The Last Four Lives of Annie Besant, chapter 2 "The 
Judging of Judge." Neither camp will be happy with his presentation, but 
it seems the best so far. 
> Especially one observation by Nethercot, tucked away in a footnote, is 
I think pertinent to evaluating both Pelletier's book and Carlos 
Aveline's "Call to Action" and that is his statement that the books The 
Theosophical Movement 1875-1925 and its revision (or update) "appear to 
be non-partisan in viewpoint, but are actually strongly biased towards 
Judge and the Theosophical groups which followed him in splitting from 
the main T.S." (p. 26) According to Forray, Pelletier relied 
particularly on the narrative provided by these books from the ULT, 
and--apparently so acknowledged in Pelletier's introduction--a synopsis 
of the period provided by a ULT member gave Pelletier "the model for his 
own outline of The Judge Case." The importance is that Aveline's, in 
principle commendable "Call to Action" is premised on the idea that "In 
fact, the 19th century process of unfair persecution against Judge 
within the Adyar Theosophical Society is very well documented in various 
books" (refering to the two ULT books and The Judge Case), giving the 
false impression as if these were objective, independent, non-related 
studies, while in reality the two ULT books are basically similar and 
Pelletier's book is apparently modeled after the first two. 
> Again, given the above and my observations in me previous e-mail, I 
think that the "Justice for Judge" initiative at the Edmonton 
Theosophical Society, commendable as it is, should be seriously revised 
to reflect a more neutral stand if it wants to bear fruit, not only as 
far as the truth is concerned, but also to foster cooperation. 
> Best 
> Govert 
> cc: carlosaveline@... 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: jdmsoares 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:05 PM 
> Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011 
> Dear Govert, Erika, Konstantin, Sufilight, friends, 
> Thanks Govert. 
> You are right, the Judge Case it's very important, and you give 
> pertinent suggestions. 
> Also I must draw attention to you all for a fact. 
> Katinka Hesselink came to some conclusions about the Judge Case in 
> review of the important book written by Pelletier. 
> I think we should carefully read the "Addressing the Critics of The 
> Judge Case 
> " by Ernest Pelletier, published in FOHAT, Vol.X, nÂ1, 2006, pp. 
> 10-14 and 23. 
> This article it is online at 
> < > . 
> I think the reply by Pelletier is quite enlightening as to the value 
> some conclusions made by Katinka. 
> Regarding to hypothetical concerns about the true motives behind 
> who have request the re-open of Judge Case, I think its enough to 
> the motto of the theosophical movement: 
> "There is no religion higher than truth". 
> We think the theosophical movement can't be based on falsehoods. 
> To those who are interested in know more facts about the "Justice to 
> Judge", I leave here a list of texts published on our website: 
> "Justice to Judge in 2011" - A Student of Theosophy , at 
> < > ; 
> "The Truth About William Judge" - Carlos Cardoso Aveline, at 
> < > ; 
> "Should One Defend William Judge?" - A Student of Theosophy, at 
> < > ; 
> "From Mexico To India, on W. Judge" - Josà RamÃn Sordo, at 
> < > ; 
> "An Open Letter to India" - Will Windham, at 
> < > ; 
> "From Germany To India, on Justice" - Sieglinde Plocki, at 
> < > ; 
> "Corresponding With India On Ethics" - Carlos Cardoso Aveline, 
> at 
> < > 
> "FOHAT And An Appeal for Justice" - A Canadian Theosophist, at 
> < > ; 
> "Call To Reopen Judge Case" - Leslie Price, at 
> < > . 
> Best regards, Joaquim 
> --- In , "Govert Schuller" schuller@ 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Dear all, 
> > 
> > Leslie Price should be commended for laying out the issue in a 
> and even-handed manner in his article "Call to Reopen Judge Case". 
> > 
> > What caught my eye is the following, imo, very important 
> > 
> > "However, I would not want to single out Adyar in this situation. 
> is but one of a number of relevant Theosophical archives. In the 
> pro-Judge TS Pasadena may be found letters of Olcott and Besant to 
> Judge, the diaries of Judge, and the letters of the Mahatmas to 
> which featured in the Case. Someone might suggest the TS Pasadena 
> suppressing evidence of Judge's guilt." 
> > 
> > Probably most Theosophists either don't know about the Judge Case 
> are indifferent about it, or leave it alone because it is so 
> but for some it's a very important issue. Personnally I'm 
> but not to the extent to purchase the $95 book The Judge Case - A 
> Conspiracy Which Ruined the Theosophical Cause by Pelletier and go 
> through its 984 pages. Katinka Hesselink did and came to the 
> conclusions in her review of the book: 
> > 
> > "Was W.Q. Judge conspired against? Did Annie Besant become 
> to trust in Brahmin-hinduism too much? Did Olcott lose touch with 
> Mahatmas? I don't know. Unfortunately The Judge Case ignores much of 
> material that has been gathered in the magazine Theosophical History 
> over the years, making it necessary for the present reviewer to look 
> them up personally. The letter by Blavatsky, the article by 
> and the testimony of Wachtmeister taken together pull the rug under 
> of Pelletier's thesis and minor points. I have only gone into the 
> issues here. The result of the Judge case was in all events the 
split up 
> of the Theosophical Society and with that starting point, the 
> shattered ultimately into far more fragments. Whatever his mistakes, 
> literature Judge produced stands as a monument to his theosophical 
> insight even now. As this case is still a dividing point between the 
> various theosophical groups, it is unfortunate that a more impartial 
> hearing wasn't produced. Still, TJC pulls together pieces of 
> and details from Judge's life that have been hard to find otherwise. 
> serious student of theosophical history can't do without this book." 
> > 
> > 
> > Given all of the above and Price's observation that both Ernest 
> Pelletier, who compiled The Judge Case, and Carlos Aveline, who 
> the open letter "A Call to Action" to Adyar, could be considered 
> "hostile" critics of Adyar, I think the move towards resolution and 
> reconciliation of and around the Judge Case might be helped by the 
> following actions: 
> > 
> > 1) A new, truly neutral letter with the request to open any and 
> relevant archives should be composed. Mr. Aveline's letter already 
> the position that Judge was innocent and Besant guilty and basically 
> demands Adyar to admit that. 
> > 
> > 
> > 2) The letter should be addressed to all the relevant archives and 
> organizations. 
> > 
> > 3) The "Justice for Judge" initiative at the Edmonton Theosophical 
> Society could be structured as a committee with representatives of 
> different organizations, preferrably scholars, and chaired by a 
> scholar like James Santucci, the editor of Theosophical History, in 
> which findings and documents could be published. 
> > 
> > Don't know if this helps, but it makes sense to me. 
> > 
> > Govert Schuller 
> > 
> > cc: carlosaveline@ 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: jdmsoares 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:17 AM 
> > Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Erica, MKR, friends, 
> > 
> > Thanks Erica. You are right. 
> > 
> > For those who haven't read yet I will take the liberty to share 
> > an important text by Leslie Price, entitled "Call to Reopen Judge 
> > Case". 
> > 
> > Best regards, 
> > 
> > Joaquim 
> > 
> > 0000000000000000000000000 
> > Call To Reopen Judge Case 
> > 
> > Notes by the Way 
> > 
> > Leslie Price 
> > 
> > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Reproduced from 
> > bulletin,Volume 2, No 4; April 2006, pp. 91-92. Mr.Leslie Price is 
> > well-known British historianof the Theosophical Movement. In the 
> > 1980s, hefounded the magazine "Theosophical History". 
> > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 
> > Let's summarise, and then comment on a recent Theosophical 
> development. 
> > 
> > A Brazilian Theosophist has called on the Adyar-based Theosophical 
> > Society to reopen the case of one of its founders, later its 
> American 
> > leader, William Quan Judge (1851-1896). In 1894, Judge was accused 
> of 
> > misusing the name of and handwriting of the Mahatmas, the advanced 
> men 
> > believed to have inspired the formation of the Society. This led 
> a 
> > schism among Theosophists which persists to this day. The United 
> Lodge 
> > of Theosophists, the T.S. Pasadena, and the independent Edmonton 
> > Theosophical Society (Alberta, Canada) are among groups supporting 
> > Judge. 
> > In a letter published in the Edmonton journal Fohat (Spring 2006) 
> Carlos 
> > Cardoso Aveline suggests that "independent students could write 
> > annual, open letters to the Adyar Theosophical Society asking it 
> > re-examine its 'process' moved against William Q. Judge in 1894-5 
> and 
> > suggesting that its leaders should either show proofs of his guilt 
> or 
> > declare him innocent of any charges whatsoever." This letter also 
> > appears on the Edmonton web site 
> > 
> > < > In June 2004 
> > Edmonton Society published a 1000 page book "The Judge Case: a 
> > conspiracy which ruined the Theosophical Cause" by Ernest 
> > which printed much relevant documentation. However in an Addendum 
> the 
> > "Supplement" to this book, Pelletier charged that the Adyar 
> > Society was withholding relevant documentation, in order to 
> the 
> > impression that Judge was guilty.In his letter, Aveline draws 
> attention 
> > to the 1885 case of H.P.Blavatsky who was also accused as a fraud 
> in 
> > this case by the SPR. In April 1986, however, the SPR (which has 
> > collective views) published in its Journal a paper by a senior 
> member, 
> > Dr Vernon Harrison, which was highly critical of the previous 
> findings. 
> > An SPR press release made Dr Harrison's new investigation widely 
> known. 
> > 0000000 Now, does the Blavatsky /SPR case offer lessons for the 
> Judge 
> > Case? I believe it does. The SPR had been asked to make available 
> its 
> > surviving documentation about the Blavatsky investigation by 
> > Carrithers ( pseudonym Adlai Waterman ) and it did so about 1960. 
> > Carrithers could be regarded as a hostile critic, in much the same 
> way 
> > as Aveline or Pelletier could be regarded as hostile, but the 
> material 
> > was made available anyway, and it circulated in photocopied or 
> microfilm 
> > form among theosophical historians, before bearing fruit. (It 
> revealed, 
> > incidentally, that Blavatsky had produced bell phenomena in the 
> presence 
> > of members of the investigating committee, but this had been 
> at 
> > proof stage of a report. The written decision to delete had 
> survived.) 
> > 91 Later the SPR, after putting Dr Harrison's paper through its 
> normal 
> > review procedure, published it and publicised it. Not all members 
> the 
> > SPR agreed with Dr Harrison, just as not all agreed with the 
> original 
> > Blavatsky report. But the sting of the mutual antipathy which had 
> > sometimes characterised SPR/TS relations since 1885 was drawn. 
> the 
> > TS Adyar have any documents which would assist the defenders, or 
> > that matter, the critics, of Judge? In the same issue of Fohat, 
> > Pelletier points to at least one relevant letter (Judge to 
> Khandalavala 
> > Sept. 17 1884) of which he has a photocopy, but which he suspects 
> may 
> > have been tampered with in the original. And he has been told by 
> Adyar 
> > people of other relevant material at Adyar. Any new material could 
> be 
> > published in a suitable place, like the quarterly journal 
> > "Theosophical History." In due course, "The Theosophist" 
> > (Adyar's main journal) could carry one of more articles by senior 
> > Theosophists of various views and organisations, drawing lessons 
> from 
> > the case, in the light of what we now know. This might go some way 
> to 
> > healing the wounds of the schism. However, I would not want to 
> single 
> > out Adyar in this situation. It is but one of a number of relevant 
> > Theosophical archives. In the pro-Judge TS Pasadena may be found 
> letters 
> > of Olcott and Besant to Judge, the diaries of Judge, and the 
> of 
> > the Mahatmas to Judge which featured in the Case. Someone might 
> suggest 
> > the TS Pasadena was suppressing evidence of Judge's guilt. In fact 
> all 
> > archives, by preserving documentation, are performing a vital 
> service. 
> > It would be useful now to move beyond charges and for all parties 
> > work together to get all relevant documentation into the scholarly 
> > domain. Beyond this Case, Judge was not only a profound 
> > thinker, whose writings merit study, but also a witness to a 
> of 
> > HPB phenomena - and a severe critic of the American psychic scene 
> his 
> > time. LESLIE PRICE 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> > 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 

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