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Re: Theos-World Re: Comments on Independence and impartiality

Jul 28, 2010 06:23 AM
by Erica L. Georgiades

I am surprised to know the list is censored. As member of theos-talk for many 
years, the element of freedom was always present and everyone could post.

I think that Eldon and Ramadoss should discuss about the current policy of 
censoring posts, and restore the list to its normal activities. 

Those persons who were censored, should have send their post to  theos-net along 
with a protest for censoring. 

Ramadoss many members have been complaining about the secrecy which pervades  
the moves of some leaders and sections. All the conflict that happened in the 
last elections, was mainly because of the proposal to remove the rights of 
members to vote for International President. And you are one of the persons who 
most complained about such tactics. 

So if we want a T.S. more democratic and open, we should settle the example. The 
price paid for a democratic system, is that not always pleasant things are said 
or stated. But people have freedom to express themselves. 

About the speculation Katinka mentioned, this do not surprise me at all. After 
all there is group in the T.S. sustaining and promoting a theory of conspiracy 
and specially attacking the Brazilian Section. There was a post even considering 
the invitation of Ricardo Lindemann a controversial choice, because he belongs 
to the Brazilian Section. If I am not wrong Katinka made such a comment. Maybe 
in the mind of some people, every Brazilian should be excluded from activities, 
as the Section is the target for different accusations. 

My personal opinion on this matter is that: if there is a problem with the 
Brazilian Section, the members of the Section should deal with it, and solve the 
problem. Furthermore we should be careful before considering excluding someone 
because of accusations without substantial proofs. Because exclusions are made 
not only in online forums, but also in activities organized by the T.S.. So or 
we are against this kind of policy in every area, or we are hypocrites. 

As far as I know the people who are using many e-mails and sending anonymous 
messages with threats, is the side "against Radha." Actually they went as far as 
to create an e-mail address in hushmail, to send their anonymous messages so 
they cannot be traced.  So a person, who does this kind of things, naturally 
will think that others can do it also. 

Either way the point of this post is that censoring posts or excluding people is 
not right.


ps. Someone may say that messages had to be pre-approved in the blog I created, 
during the controversy of the disfranchising proposal, so there was not freedom. 
This is the way I prefer to work with blogs, even my personal blog has the same 
policy.  But nobody can ever say that a comment sent to that blog was censored. 
Such a thing never happened.

From: Spirituality <>
Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 3:00:38 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Comments on Independence and impartiality


That's great to hear, but not really what people are concerned about I think.

Let's go back a bit. At the Theosophical World Congress, and through email in 
the days after it, several people expressed their concern to me that your 
management of theos-talk was not impartial. That is: you have sensored people 
who had perfectly decent contributions to make (Preetthi and Govert and perhaps 
more) and seemed informed extraordinarily quickly of any movement on the part of 
Radha/Pedro etc. 

Hearing that, and thinking that Eldon was still ultimately in charge of this 
list, I asked him to use his authority to get the list back on track, or close 
it. Whichever he preferred. He probably contacted you - and the below is your 

Personally I don't give a darn whether you make money on theosophy or not. 
Obviously it is easier to be critical for those who aren't in the employ of the 
TS, but that doesn't mean that those who aren't - are necessarily impartial. 
They're just financially independent of the TS - which is the situation for most 
of us here. 

For me, and several of my correspondents - the question is: why has theos-talk 
stopped being the open forum it used to be? 

And more specifically: how come you use several email addresses to post on here? 
What are you trying to hide? In fact, the speculation has come up that MKR hides 
several people on several continents. 

Now I'm all for freedom and would have preferred for to 
stay open for everybody and the search engines. Glad some of us set up last year: it IS open (just checked). 

However, I'm also all for accountability. The internet gives us all the 
opportunity to hide behind screen names and loose all fairness in the process. 
No need to be polite or just when nobody knows who you are. 

Now - in case this gets censored - I will be saving the text of this on my pc. I 
don't really want to post it elsewhere, but I do think the below has made a 
response necessary. 

I will also be deleting any links to theos-talk on my own sites BTW as it 
doesn't seem like this forum serves any purpose to the theosophical movement any 

Best wishes,
Katinka Hesselink

Disclosure: The Dutch TS paid me for their recent redesign, so I guess I'm not 
independent by your definition. That hasn't stopped me from speaking out where I 
see fit though.
--- In, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
> All organized entities such as governments, business corporations, spiritual
> organizations, and even individual leaders and politicians are always on the
> look out for opportunities to influence the individuals such as membership
> and even media people to either keep them in line or influence them to act
> or write in ways supporting the activities and action of the organizations
> and its leaders or even act as catÃââs paws to handle touchy issues. Many
> times, clever individuals and leaders will stay back in the background and
> let others do their dirty work.
> In organizations, range of techniques used may be outright giving money
> grants, reimbursing the travel expenses, offer platforms to lecture or write
> or even help them to move up in the leadership ladder. In theosophical
> circles, due to the common membership in other officially unconnected
> organizations, the fear of paying a price will keep writers and lecturers in
> line with official wishes.
> The reason why I bring this up is because it is necessary to clarify my
> personal position in all activities and writings related to theosophical and
> other issues. Firstly, as I have mentioned several times before, I maintain
> my independence because of several reasons. I am not looking forward to hold
> any elected office in future and I have an independent lively hood which
> does not depend on TS or any of its members. Also in the past I have never
> received any manner of financial support from TS or any of its members.
> I am reiterating the above so that the newbees are very clear as to where I
> come from and the independence gives some credibility to what I write on
> this and other theosophical forums. In todayÃââs Internet environment,
> transparent and open clarification of the independence issue is good for
> anyone in the cyberspace - writers, participants, website owners, website
> operators etc. I hope the above clarification helps.
> There is No Religion Higher Than Truth
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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