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Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an Ongoing Process?

Oct 13, 2009 05:12 PM
by Drpsionic

There is nothing ritualistic about Theosophy.
Chuck the Heretic  

In a message dated 10/13/2009 10:48:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, writes:

Dear Preethi,

K indeed had mystical experiences and claimed oneness  with life, but I 
belief those were temporary experiences. He was not  enlightened, though he 
came close. If he was enlightened and one with life, as  many belief, he would 
have incorporated Theosophy, not lashed out against it  and would not have 
pretended loss of memory, nor would he have secretely  bedded the wife of his 
manager, nor his offspring aborted. Then some of his  statements regarding 
his messiah-ship were not very humble but rather  self-serving, maybe even 
manipulative. He put a guilt-trip on Theosophists by  claiming they had 
failed him, evenwhile he had failed the Masters. Only by  being selective can one 
create an image of K as an enlightened world teacher.  The alternative is 
to be either thouroughly agnostic or explore possible  Theosophical 
explanations like those given by Geoffrey_ Hodson, Cyrill Scott  and David Anrias. 
There are some great insights to be found in his teachings,  but we have to be 
on guard against jumping to unwarranted conclusions  regarding his 
spiritual and metaphysical status. Dear Preethi, sorry for this  cold shower, but I 
do not like to see Theosophists helping with the creation  of a new 
religion, coined Krishnamurtianity, which will be thouroughly  anti-esoteric, 
anti-ritualistic and anti-gradualistic, or, in short,  anti-Theosophical. 


----- Original Message -----  
From: preethi muthiah 

_ ( _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
( _ 
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009  4:44 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an  
Ongoing Process?

Dear Morten and Friends

I am wondering what  does a person say when he or she merges with the One 
Life...when asked the  question, who are you?, what does he say? Does he not 
say that he is  Life...because that is what he is...he and life are not two 
but one...he and  the Master are not two, but he is the master, he 
is life, but that  statement of acknowledgement would seem more a humble 
statement rather than a  messianic one...



--- On Tue,  13/10/09, Govert Schuller <_ ( 
_schuller@alpheus.sch_ ( _> wrote:

From: Govert  Schuller <_ ( 
_schuller@alpheus.sch_ ( _>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis  In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing Process?
To: _ ( _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ 
Date: Tuesday, 13 October, 2009,  1:45 AM

Morten, you're quite right. 

K's self-perception was as  a messiah, but on his own subtle and 
contradictory terms.

-----  Original Message ----- 

From: Morten Nymann Olesen 

To:  theos-talk@yahoogro 

Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:47  AM

Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an  
Ongoing Process?

Dear Preethi and friends

My views  are:

HPB said: 

"They will not crush the Society, do what they  may." 


Preethi wrote:

"Krishnaji, never adhered to  that concept"..." He refused to be a messiah."

M. Sufilight answers  asks:

I disagree.

I can with all of my heart only - clearly  disagree - with you on this when 
we talk about Krishnaji also known as J.  Krishnamurti.

And givning J. Krishnamurti the whole blame, and letting  Annie Besant go 
scott free, will not wash, and aught not to be endorsed by any  leadership in 
TS Adyar. The truth is that Annie Besant - clearly failed - in  this 
regard, and promoted an emotional _cult with yellow shawls, purples  shawls, 
silver bagdes and ribbons, with J.K. insignias. And the TS and the  theosophical 
cause have been hampered by this for decades. Not to mention her  involvment 
with C.W. Leadbeater.

T.S. Adyar aught to recognize these  heavy blunders and NOT promote Annie 
Besant as a great leader!

Can you  document your views?

Can you show me that J. Krishnamurti ever rejected  his own title as a 
World Teacher and Messiah, and Messiah-craze as  such?

I have most often found to opposite to be the true about his  behaviour. 
Will you please answer this question, because it is important to a  number of 

- - - - - - -

I will in opposition to TS  Adyar seek to document my views in the below....

Will TS Adyar document  their views in a comprative study or stand 

So far Radha  Burnier have only published the following vague remarks on J. 

And this with Radha Burnier answering questions has not  been verified as 
officially true:

_ ( _http://www.lifeposi_ 
(http://www.lifeposi/) _ Spirit/new- age-path/  theosophical- society/theosoph 
y.asp (Anyone?)

Another different one is  here:

_ ( _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _ group/alt. paranormal.  reincarnation/ browse_thread/ 
thread/6900a7642  65f5d4b


Geoffrey Hodson (d. 1983) said in an article  published in 1965:

"These phenomena occurred during some few successive  years, the events 
being so

marked that Krishnamurti himself thereafter  changed the Objects of the 
Order of the

Star in the East from, in  effect, âTo prepare for the coming of the Lordâ 
to âTo serve

the World  Teacher now that He is in our midst.â I, myself, more than once  

Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now here and that  the â
Comingâ had

actually occurred. Even now when he is speaking, with  others I discern a 

influence emanating from him, as if a  great Being were still using him as 
a vehicle.

This, however, does not  constitute a complete fulfillment of the original 

_ ( _http://www.theosoph_ 
(http://www.theosoph/) _ resources/ articles/  AppreciationofCW L.pdf


J. Krishnamurti claimed himself being  the Avatar (1928):


"I know that which I am; I know my  purpose in life because I am Life 
itself without name, without limitation. And  because I am Life I would urge you 
to worship that Life, not in this form that  is Krishnamurti but the Life 
which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all  the paraphernalia of beliefs, 
religions and ceremonies, and you will find the  Truth." 

_ ( _http://jiddu-_ (http://jiddu-/)  
krishnamurti. net/en/1928-  let-understandin g-be-the- law/jiddu- krishnamurti- 
let-understandin g-be-the-  law-07.php


"Krishnamurti wrote in 1927:

"I know my  destiny and my work. I know with certainty and knowledge of my 
own, that I am  blending 

into the consciousness of the one Teacher and that He will  completely fill 

Letter from Krishnamurti to Leadbeater February  9, 1927, quoted in 
Lutyens, Krishnamurti: The 

Years of Awakening, p.  241.



And we have Theosophist Magazine September  1932-December 1932

"I presume the T.S. accepts it as its duty to  promulgate Theosophy and not 
to spread or air of other philosophies; if the  former why does it 
undertake propaganda for the teachings of Krishnamurti? If  the latter, why call 
itself the Theosophical Society? This is sailing under  false colours and is 
dishonest to humanity. The facts are, that one cannot go  to any T.S. Lodge 
meeting without hearing about, seeing the books of  Krishnamurti. What service 
is that to mankind- what s_ervice is rendered to  Theosophy? It can only do 
one thing and that is to help fog and cloud the  student and help to make 
his efforts to learn Theosophy a hundred times more  difficult. Kirshnamurti 
himself is absolutely honest.... 

In the Star  Bulletin August 1931, Page 7 - J. Krishnamurti says:

" So I have made  it prefectly clear that what is generally believed by the 
Christian, the  Theosophist, the Hindu, the Buddhist to be Truth, has 
nothing in common with  what I say" 

_ ( _http://books._ (http://books./) books?id= Tq8aS-ZDu_  IC&pg=RA2- PA379&lpg= RA2-PA379& dq=%22Star+ 
Bulletin%  22+1931+Krishnam urti&source= web&ots=StjngNWK 0k&sig=yBGu2frkW  
1eUSqpsDYFDftGSK e4#PRA2-PA379, M1

- - -

M. Sufilight  asks:

Why did J. Krishnamurti accept creating so many obstacles to the  Seekers 
after Truth - who were not Seekers after a creed? - And not to talk  about 
the - appearent - requirements of people being members of the Order of  the 
Star in the East

if they wanted TS membership. (I cannot find the  proper letter by Annie 
Besant on this. Maybe some of you can help me out?) No  wonder a number of 
Seekers broke with the TS back in the old days.

An  Avatar - hampering - the promotion of comparative studying, cannot be 
said to  be in accordance with the wisdom teachings of all ages past and the 
original  Programe of the TS as it was given by HPB and the Masters. 

And please  understand that NO Universal Brotherhood can be created from 
such a  Messiah-craze activity!


J. Krishnamurti' s speech disso_lving  The Order of The Star in the East: 

"Truth, being limitless,  unconditioned, unapproachable by any path 
whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor  should any organization be formed to lead or 
to coerce people along any  particular path."

_ ( _http://www.katinkah_ 
(http://www.katinkah/)  esselink. net/kr/star. htm

M.  Sufilight says:

An Avatar rejecting the promotion of comparative  studies, cannot be said 
to be in accordance with the wisdom teachings of all  ages past.


Here are some quite telling HPB quotes opposing  the J. Krishnamurti scheme 
and present day scheme.

H. P. Blavatsky in  The Key to Theosophy:

"Does the Spiritualist accept the verdict and act  on the conclusion? 
Verily, no. He refuses to organize." (p. 32)

H. P.  Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy about the T.S.:

"A very poor  specimen, indeed, as at present, and, until carefully sifted 
and reorganized,  no better than all others. Remember, however, that human 
nature is the same in  the Theosophical Society as out of it. Its members are 
no saints: they are at  best sinners trying to do better, and liable to 
fall back owing to personal  weakness." .... " Besides which, it is in a 
chaotic condition, and as unjustly  unpopular as is no other body. What wonder, 
then, that those members who fail  to carry out its ideal should turn, after 
leaving the Society, for sympathetic  protection to our enemies, and pour all 
their gall and bitterness into their  too willing ears! Knowing that they 
will find support, sympathy, and ready  credence for every accusation, howe
ver absurd, that it may please them to  launch against the Theosophical 
Society, they hasten to do so, and vent their  wrath on the innocent 
looking-glass, which reflected too faithfully their  faces. People never forgive
those whom they have wronged. " (p.  256)

H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy about our  enemies!:

"I do not call the enemies we have had to battle with during  the first 
nine or ten years of the Society's existence either powerful or  "dangerous"; 
but only those who have arisen against us in the last three or  four years. 
And these neither speak, write nor preach against Theosophy, but  work in 
silence and behind the backs of the foolish puppets who act as their  visible 
marionnettes. Yet, if invisible to most of the members of our Society,  they 
are well known to the true "Founders" and the protectors of our Society.  
But they must remain for certain reasons unnamed at present.  "


"I never said I knew them. I may or may not know them,  but I know of them, 
and this is sufficient; and I defy them to do their worst.  They may 
achieve great mischief and throw confusion into our ranks, especially  among the 
faint-hearted, and those who can judge only by appearances. They  will not 
crush the Society, do what they may. Apart from these truly dangerous  enemies 
à "dangerous," however, only to those Theosophists who are unworthy of  the 
name, and whose place is rather outside than within the T. S.Ã the number  
of our opponents is more than considerable. " (p. 272)

H. P. Blavatsky  in The Key to Theosophy about our enemies!:

"We have to contend against  (1) the hatred of the Spiritualists, American, 
English, and French; (2) the  constant opposition of the clergy of all 
denominations; (3) especially the  relentless hatred and persecution of the 
missionaries in India; (4) this led  to the famous and infamous attack on our 
Theosophical Society by the Society  for Psychical Research, an attack which 
was stirred up by a regular conspiracy  organized by the missionaries in 
India. Lastly, we must count the defection of  various prominent (?) members, 
for reasons I have already explained, all of  whom have contributed their 
utmost to increase the prejudice against us. " (p.  274)

H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy 

"Our enemies  profit to this day by our mistake. The most recent book 
directed against our  teachings is alleged to have been written by an Adept of 
twenty years'  standing. Now, it is a palpable lie. We know the amanuensis and 
his inspirers  (as he is himself too ignorant to have written anything of 
the sort). These  "inspirers" are living persons, revengeful and unscrupulous 
in proportion to  their intellectual powers; and these bogus Adepts are not 
one, but several.  The cycle of "Adepts," used as sledge-hammers to break 
the theosophical heads  with, began twelve years ago, with Mrs. Emma Hardinge 
Britten's "Louis" of Art  Magic and Ghost-Land, and now ends with the 
"Adept" and "Author" of The Light  of Egypt, a work written by Spiritualists 
against Theosophy and its  teachings." (...p. 302)

H. P. Blavatsky in The Key to Theosophy  

"Many Branches of the Society have been formed in various parts of the  
world, and new ones are constantly being organized. Each branch frames its own  
bye-laws and manages its own local business without interference from  
Head-quarters; provided only that the fundamental rules of the Society are not  
violated. " (...p. 320)


Mary Lutyens told about J.  Krishnamurti' s views:

"He was quoted in Mary Lutyens book as saying to  the general secretary of 
the Theosophical Society for

Wales, the  following statement: "He told us that he had never been able to 
read a  Theosophical book in His life -

could not understand our Theosophical  jargon and, although he had heard 
many Theosophical lectures, none _ of

them had convinced him of their knowledge or truth."

(" Life  and Death of Krishnamurti " by Mary Lutyens, p. 71 )


J.J. van  der Leeuw on the J. Krishnamurti conflict

Try also the phamplet by J.J.  van der Leeuw on the J. Krishnamurti 

"Revelation or  Realization: The Conflict in Theosophy" by J.J. van der 
Leeuw,  LL.D.(Amsterdam: N.V. Theosofische Vereeniging Uitgevers Maatschappij, 

_ ( _http://www.alpheus._ 
(http://www.alpheus./)  org/html/ source_materials  /krishnamurti/ leeuw.html



The fact that  he allowed himself to be called Maitreya - World Teacher and 
Messiah for at  least 4 years if not for 18 years or more without really 
counter-acting it -  aught to tell you something. And the fact that Annie 
Besant as the leader of  TS and even the Esoteric Section allowed it, aught also 
to tell you something.  - Now why this persistent clinging to a doctrine at 
TS Adyar, which seeks to  picture Annie besant as a great theosophical 
leader, when we all KNOW it is  not in accordance with the Truth???

Annie Besants involvement in the  whole affair aught to be taken into 
account on the TS Adyar  website.*

In the period fram 1909-1929 Annie Besant was a staunch  promoter of 
something else than theosophical teachings, namely a Messiah-craze  cult, with 
so-called theosophists wearing a Yellow Shawl, Purple Shawl with -  the J.K. 
insignia, - and silver badges on a purple ribbon, and thereby  effectively 
destroying any kind of comparative studying.

The motto of  the Theosophical Society is still, I do hope: 



M. Sufilight

----- Original  Message ----- 

From: preethi muthiah 

To: theos-talk@yahoogro 

Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:33 AM

Subject: Re:  Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing  Process?

Dear Morten and friends,

My view is that the Messiah  craze was and is something that belongs to 
those who 'follow" the teachers.  The teachers themselves, whether it was the 
Masters of the Wisdom or HPB or  Krishnaji, never adhered to that concept. 
Which is why the Masters say in  their Letters to APS that we ought to be 
faithful to the Idea rather than to  have merely a personal feeling for Them. 
That is essentially what JK also  taught all his life. He refused to be a 

I think it is  important for us to realize that with the advent of the 
Aquarian Age we are  expected to learn to think for ourselves, to develop our 
own inner  intelligence. The Buddha of the previous Age, Gautama Buddha, said 
the same  thing when telling us to be a lamp unto ourselves. This stress or 
emphasis on  developing our own intuitive mind is seen throughout the 
teachings of all  teachers who came after the  Buddha.



--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Morten  Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. 
dk> wrote:

From:  Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>

Subject:  Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing  Process?

To: theos-talk@yahoogro

Date: Saturday, 10  October, 2009, 1:40 PM

Dear Preethi and friends

My views  are:

Yes, they often expressed the same views in the main although  there were 
certain vital differences - i.e. if we take HPB, CWL, Besant and  JK. - And 
as always we "cull the good we find in each".

Yet when we  deal with the Messiah-craze I cannot find any middle-ground. 

Either  you understand that is was not theosophical or you do not! TS Adyar 
has since  the adwent of the J. Krishnamurti cult accepted and even 
maintained this  messiah-Craze - in clear visible opposition - to the original 
programe and  theosophical teachings given by H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters. A 
programe  was given by the TS founders in 1875 fighting ANY dogma, and a 
programe  seeking to create a synthesis of the core teachings of all world 
religions,  and seeking to END the strife between them, and not promoting this 
strife. TS  Adyars leadership have since 1908 or 1909 not clearly distanced 
themselves  from this Messiah-craze and sought to end the strife between 
fractions and  instead promoted a synthesis teaching. It seems clear when 
reading their  present day TS Adyar website. 

The theosophical teachings cannot be  promoted through a muddle 
Messiah-craze doctrine. We aught to recognized the  truth when it is proven to us. Do 
you not agree?

In 1887 HPB further  said in Le Lotus:

"In carnalizing the central figure of the New  Testament, in imposing the 
dogma of the Word made flesh, the Latin Church sets _ up a doctrine 
diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu  Esotericism and the Greek 
Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss  between the East and the 
West, as long as neither of these dogmas yields.  Almost 2,000 years of 
bloody persecution against Heretics and Infidels by the  Church looms before the 
Oriental nations to prevent them from renouncing their  philosophic 
doctrines in favor of that which degrades the Christos  principle."


"by localizing and isolating this great  Principle, and denying it to any 
other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the  Nazar), carnalize the Christos of 
the Gnostics; that alone prevents them  having any point in common with the 
disciples of the Archaic  Wisdom."


"true Theosophists will never accept either a  Christ made Flesh".

_ ( _http://www.katinkah_ 
(http://www.katinkah/) _ esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/  v8/y1887_ 048.htm

- - - - - - -

The main point is:

Now we  just need to exchange the words "Latin Church" or "Christian" from 
the above  quotes with the "TS Adyar Krishnamurti Church" and "Jesus of 
Nazareth" with  "J. Krishnamurti" - and - all begin to wear a Yellow Shawl, 
Purple Shawl with  - the J.K. insignia, - and silver badges on a purple ribbon - 
as they did in  Annie Besants "supreme" reign - and we are all ready to 
follow the  Messiah-craze promoted and maintained in TS-Adyar! ( Se also Mary 
Lutyens - 1.  Krishnamurti: The Years of Awakening, p.38)

TS Adyar aught to delete or  at least change some of the words on Annie 
Besant at its present  website:

The following from the TS Adyar webiste can hardly be said to  be in 
accordance with the true theosophical spirit and the original  theosophical 

"She gave a great lead in making Theosophy  practical, urging members to 
theosophize the various fields: religious,  social, economic, political. " ( _ 
( _http://www.ts-_ (http://www.ts-/) history.html )

I  hold the following to be a more true view:

"She gave a lead, [though  theosophically speaking not without some vital 
faults], in making Theosophy  practical, urging members to theosophize the 
various fields: religious,  social, economic, political. [Despite that her 
promotion af a World Teacher  and Messiah named J. Krishnamurti was in clear 
opposition to the theosophical  teachings original programe, she succeeded in 
doing a lot of good work to help  and relieve suffering around the world. 
And her actitivies, books a writings  and letters on theosophical subjects are 
evidences on this.]"


Do you understand me?

- - - -  - - -

What is unclear it me and others are, where the limits the  Theosophical 
Society operates within really are. And TS as such have through  the time been 
tested in this regard, and continues to be tested. This is the  law of life.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message -----  

From: preethi muthiah 

To: theos-talk@yahoogro  

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:23 AM

Subject: Re:  Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing  Process?

Perhaps if one went beyond the words these teachers used, one  would 
realize that they meant the same thing but because the teachings were  given at 
different periods of time, the words had to suit the receiving  populations 

Individualization and self-reliance in matters  spiritual are emphasized by 
all the teachers mentioned in this discussion..  .and yet that is the one 
thing the current administration of the TS would stop  us from growing into 
and realizing... the immensity of the human potential  cannot be curtailed 
and any attempts to do so are futile...there will always  be some one person 
who will find the courage to resist an attempt to curtail  the speaking of 
the truth...whether that person was HPB or JK or Ramana  Maharshi...

If the TS of today seeks to fulfill its purpose of  existence, it must be a 
forum where such expression can_ find expression..  .unfortunately, 
intolerance is practised at all  levels...



--- On Sat, 10/10/09,  Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. 
dk>  wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet.  dk>

Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or  an 
Ongoing Process?

To: theos-talk@yahoogro

Date:  Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 11:51 AM

Dear John

My views  are:

Maybe this posting by you on the topic of "atoms" in response to  my talk 
about the Krishnamurti cult and pseudo-Messiahs from this thread will  show 
you it all more clearly:

_ ( _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _ group/theos- talk/message/  52952

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 

From:  Morten Nymann Olesen 

To: theos-talk@yahoogro 

Sent:  Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:08 AM

Subject: Re: Theos-World Crisis In  the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing Process?

Dear John

I  can use both links.

The links are e-mails - in this thread - created by  me on the J. 
krishnamurti issue, and, are both of them useful in the sense,  that they describe my 
views on the crisis in TS Adyar. They have not  necessarily anything to do 
with you or any particular person at this forum. I  was simply answering 
Preethi's e-mail in this thread. Okay?


"With the advent of  Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its day, 

sees its  doom."

_ ( _http://www.katinkah_ 
(http://www.katinkah/) _ esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/  v12/y1890_ 027.htm

_ ( _http://www.blavatsk_ 
(http://www.blavatsk/) arts/ModernApost  lesAndPseudoMess iahs.htm

The AIM of the theosophical teachings are to  create a universal 
brotherhood, and thereby of course seek to do as HPB puts  it: 

"The chief aim of the Founder. of the Eclectic Theosophical School  was one 
of the three objects of its modern successor, the Theosophical  Society, 
namely, to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common  system 
of ethics, based on eternal verities. " (The Key to Thesophy, 2. ed. ,  p. 

M. Sufilight asks:

Now how that can come about by using  J. Krishnamurti' s teachings as the 
main ones I cannot see. And how can one  reconcile anything by promoting a 
Messiah-craze (through Annie Besant and  Leadbeater)? And by continously 
maintaining a Messiah-craze by accepting Annie  Besant version herof until this 

And TS Adyar as always remain  silent to these questions. These things are 
appearntly no allowed to be told  the TRUTH about.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message -----  

From: Augoeides-222@ 

To: theos-talk@yahoogro 

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:41 AM

Subject: Re:  Theos-World Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing  Process?


The first link you provided # 52950 as not a  message I made, it was some 
one else, but it wasn't me. Just to clarify a  little bit of confusion. 


----- Original Message -----  

From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>  

To: theos-talk@yahoogro 

Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009  9:40:52 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 

Subject: Re: Theos-World  Crisis In the TS -- A New Phenomenon or an 
Ongoing Process? 

Dear  Preethi and friends 

My views are: 

Maybe because nobidy really  have answered or replied to my views about the 
Krishanmurti cults persistent  existence within TS Adyar, which according 
to my views are in opposition to  the original programe given by H. P. 
Blavatsky and other theosophists.  

I state a view on that in this thread 


_ ( _http://groups._ (http://groups./) _ group/theos- talk/message/  52950 (1) 

And here: 

_ ( _http://groups._ (http://groups./) group/theos- talk/message/  52962 (2) 

Instead I got an answer from John, who appearently disklied  my two posts, 
and who (in a to me somewhat unclear manner) started to ask  questions about 
H. P. Blavatsky's teachings, and to a certain extend sought to  create 
doubt about her teachings validity. Well, that is what I so far have  perceived 
his e-mails. Yet we are Seekers after Truth, so his honest approach  aught 
to be listened to and compared with H. P. Blavatsky's teachings, so it  might 
benefit various Seekers me and John included. That is unless someone  knows 
the picture on a higher level are will step in and teach about where we  go 
from here - in the land of Parabrahm and theosophical teachings. 

-  - - 

Bottom line as far as I am concerned is: Either you accept the J.  
Krishnamurti cult (and there by Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeaters promotions)  or 
you support H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters teachings. there is no middle  
ground here. And TS Adyar aught to be made aware of it. Yet any theosophical  
Seeker should of course question the original programes validity. 

yet  H. P. Blavatsky and her friends stated at the beggining of the 
Theosophical  Society's existence the following in thefirst preamble to the 
formation of the  organisation The Theosophical Society, that : 

"Preamble of the T.S.  

Dated October 30, 1875; reprinted in The Theosophical Forum, September  
1947, pp. 515-18 

The title of the Theosophical Society explains the  objects and desires of 
its founders: they seek "to obtain knowledge of the  nature and attributes 
of the Supreme Power and of the higher spirits by the  aid of physical 
processes." In other words, they hope, that by going deeper  than modern science 
has hitherto done, into the esoteric philosophies of  ancient times, they may 
be enabled to obtain, for themselves and other  investigators, proof of the 
existence of an "Unseen Universe," the nature of  its inhabitants, if such 
there be, and the laws which govern them and their  relations with mankind. 

What_ever may be the private opinions of its  members, the society has no 
dogmas to enforce, no creed to disseminate. It is  formed neither as a 
Spiritualistic schism, nor to serve as the foe or friend  of any sectarian or 
philosophic body. Its only axiom is the omnipotence of  truth, its only creed a 
profession of unqualified devotion to its discovery  and propagation. In 
considering the qualifications of applicants for  membership, it knows neither 
race, sex, color, country nor creed."  


_ ( _http://www.theosoci_ 
(http://www.theosoci/) _ /gfkforum/  ourdir.htm# Preamble% 20of%20the% 

And H. P. Blavatsky said in  her book the Key to Theosophy, 2. ed, 1890: 

"The Theosophical Society  was organized for the purpose of promulgating 
the Theosophical doctrines, and  for the promotion of the Theosophic life." ( 
p. 16). 

_ ( _http://www.phx-_ (http://www.phx-/)  
ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm 

While  the Krishnamurti camp or cult agree upon another programe: 

It was  required that each member of the Theosophical Society agreed upon 
being a  member of The Order of the Star in the East (the cult promoting J.  
Krishnamurti as a World Teacher and Messiah of the Age). Else the member 
would  be expelled. 

Yet, we can nealy all of us agree upon, that the  following given by H. P. 
Blavatsky in the Theosophist as its Editor, or one  named Spectator, by HPB 
being allowed his/her article to be printed in the  Theosophist: 


"Wherever  Theosophy spreads, there it is impossible for the deluded to 
mislead, or the  deluded to follow. It opens a new path, a forgotten philosophy 
which has lived  through the ages, a knowledge of the psychic nature of 
man, which reveals  alike the true status of the Catholic saint, and the 
spiritualistic medium the  Church condemns. IT GATHER REFORMERS TOGETHER, THROWS 
delivers from a futile crown of  thorns. Mesmerisms and astral influences fall 
back, and the sky grows clear  enough for higher light. It hushes the âLo 
here! and lo there!â and declares  the Christ, like the kingdom of heaven, to 
be within. It guards and applies  every aspiration and capacity to serve 
humanity in any man and shows him how.  It overthrows the giddy pedestal, and 
safely cares for the human being on  solid ground. Hence, in

this way, and in all other ways, it is the  truest deliverer and saviour of 
our time. 

To enumerate the various  âMessiahsâ and their beliefs and works would 
fill volumes. It is needless.  When claims conflict, all, on the face of it, 
cannot be true. Some have taught  less error than others. It is almost the 
only distinction. And some have had  fine powers imperilled and paralysed by 
leadings they did not understand.  

Of one thing, rationally-minded people, apart from Theosophists, may  be 
sure. And that is, service for humanity is its all-sufficient reward; and  
that empty jars are the most resonant of sound. To know a very little of the  
philosophy of life, of manâs power to redeem wrongs and to teach others, to  
perceive how to thread the tangled maze of existence on this globe, and to  
accomplish aught of lasting and spiritual benefit, is to annihilate all 
desire  or thought of posing as a heaven-sent saviour of the people. For a very 
little  self-knowledge is a leveller indeed, and more democratic than the 
most  ultra-radical can desire. The best practical reformers of the outside 
abuses  we have known, such as slavery, deprivation of the rights of woman, 
legal  tyrannies, oppressions of the poor, have NEVER dreamed of posing as 
Messiahs.  Honor, worthless as it is, followed them unsought, for a tree is 
known by its  fruits, and to this day âtheir works do follow



"With the advent of Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its  day, 
and sees its doom." 

(signed SPECTATOR). 


A  few comments: 

As long as Ts Adyar's halls speak a loud SILENCE on this  and as long as TS 
Adyar are quite unwilling to CLEARLY distance it self from  the 
Krishnamurti cult and those who un the past unjustly promoted it - As well  as those 
who unjustly promote it know, I will have to reject that they can  have any 
claim on following the original programe as it was given in 1875 by  HPB and 
others - Masters included, and I will have to reject that they follow  a 
program qhich can at all be called healthy unless you will call the  
theosophical teachings of all ages a Messiah cult. - And because of that they  do not 
deseve to wear the name The Theosophical Society on the front of their  
Crowns and on their secptres. - These are my views and if I am wrong then  
please, please let me know. 

So a tree is known on its fruits, is it  not? 

And we aught to recognize the truth when it is proven to us,  allright? 

So are you and others saying, that TS Adyar with its near  total acceptance 
of Annie Besant's teachings and from this also near total  acceptance of 
CWL's and J. Krishnamurti' s teachings - are showing such fruits  and 
activities as the above article mentions??? 

What I am saying is,  that when they can accept the J. Krishnamurti cult 
and its promoters, why do  they not also endorse other similar present day 
Messiah cults on the globe?  

The continous - No Answer - attitude in TS Adyar circles to this issue  
reveals to me, that they are not honest Seekers, but merely believers,  
followers and especially promoters of BELIEF and not promoters of knowledge  and 
visdom. And this the theosophical teachings clealry rejects! 

M.  Sufilight 

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