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Re: Theos-World Re: A TS member's observation on non-existent Problem

Jul 29, 2009 10:35 PM
by Messenger


You are welcome to call me MKR. Some time you will see long-time subscribers
address me as Doss, which is the nick name I go by. I stopped using it on
this list because there was a confusion between myself  and another Doss who
is also an active long time TS member who lives in my home town. Only
recently I started signing as Messenger because I was conveying my ideas and
thinking and I don't want to become the "message". May be it is time to go
back to MKR!

As I had mentioned in some prior messages, I speak for myself only and not
for anyone else.  Fortunately I am able to keep my independence because I
have my own business and I do not depend on TS or any of its members for my
livelyhood. In addition I have not held any offices and do not plan to hold
any in the future.

MKR

visit www.theosophy.net


On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:16 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> MKR,
>
> In ordinary English, a messenger means a message bearer and generally, a
> message bearer bears messages from someone else. That is he serves as
> someone else's voice. So whose voice are you bearing?
>
> Just curious. And i hope you don't at all mind that i will choose to call
> you MKR even though you seem to prefer to be known as messenger.
>
> Preethi
>
> --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Messenger <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Messenger <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: A TS member's observation on non-existent
> Problem
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 5:57 PM
>
>
>
>
> Everyone knows who Anton is. It was never my intention to question his
>
> identity. If there is even slightest misperception that I am doubting his
>
> identity, my personal apologies to him.
>
> In all my messages posted here and elsewhere, I speak only for myself. This
>
> I have stated before. This continues today and will be so in the future. I
>
> am just an ordinary member and I have not held any office nor plan to hold
>
> any in the future. So my position should be clear to everyone.
>
> I signed as Messenger so that no one confuses between message and the
>
> messenger. As I mentioned in my msg, I will soon post a msg discussing the
>
> issues, in my opinion, important to the TS today. Please keep tuned.
>
> Messenger aka MKR
>
> visit www.theosophy. net
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@ yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi Ramadoss,
>
> >
>
> > Or should I now call you Messenger (of some formal or informal group)?
>
> >
>
> > The passage you presented is extracted from the topic I opened on the
>
> > Theosophical Community under the title: "Have we a problem?"
>
> >
>
> > http://theosophical .ning.com/ forum/topics/ have-we-a- problem
>
> >
>
> > The specific words are those of Will Morrow in his Comment 7687:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://theosophical .ning.com/ forum/topics/ have-we-a- problem?page=
> 1&commentId= 2060685%3ACommen t%3A7687& x=1#2060685Comme nt7687
>
> >
>
> > So, those interested can check the entire discussion to see those words
> in
>
> > proper context, but here is my reply to those Will Morrow's words as
> posted
>
> > on the Community:
>
> >
>
> > "I naturally supposed and wrote that there will be probably many who will
>
> > have different opinion. I don't have problem with that and do not force
>
> > anyone to change it.
>
> >
>
> > I hope that this relatively new way of free expression of ideas and views
>
> > through internet will be sooner or later regarded as an enrichment of
>
> > Society's life. But as every new thing it obviously provokes some
> doubts."
>
> >
>
> > In your extract (below) you additionally substituted the name of Joe
>
> > (Fulton) with xxx probably because in that comment (later on deleted
> because
>
> > Joe left the Theosophical Community) Joe actually supported my views
> about
>
> > lack of common vision concerning the nature of the Theosophical Society.
>
> >
>
> > "This has happened many times before (As seen in xxx's - Joe's - comment
>
> > below - where all of those who believed their sectarianism was THE
> correct
>
> > one started their own TS) and will continue."
>
> >
>
> > More over, this lack of common vision is one of the "hot" topics on the
>
> > Theosophical Network and I understand its slogan "Embrace-Compare-
> Explore"
>
> > as one of the attempts to define it more clearly. Anyway, we will see if
> Joe
>
> > has anything to say on this.
>
> >
>
> > You wrote: "When we look at the discussions on operational matters of TS
>
> > brought up by some, many frequent participants and others have
> contributed
>
> > their views and arguments. Some were very passionate. In the case of some
> of
>
> > them, many had serious doubts about their real identities especially when
>
> > unsubstantiated allegations were made by them."
>
> >
>
> > So, you avoid addressing me directly to check my real identity and you
> call
>
> > views I present "unsubstantiated allegations" . Why? I have no problem to
>
> > offer you my personal data which you anyway know all too well as you know
>
> > well my views which are equally publicly presented on my web site and on
>
> > e-mail lists. But if this is not enough for you then come here in Koper
> and
>
> > check all you want personally. But this is not the point, isn't it?
>
> >
>
> > No, you rather hide behind those "many" who "had serious doubts" and who
>
> > hide their identity on the Theosophical Community and the Theosophical
>
> > Network behind various symbols and actually spread "unsubstantiated
>
> > allegations" as I didn't see any serious analysis of the current
> situation
>
> > in the TS from the part of persons of this (formal or informal) group of
>
> > people.
>
> >
>
> > "But when disguise is used to avoid personal responsibility for their
>
> > statements, it is a wholly different matter. We know what happens when
> the
>
> > disguise is about to be unmasked. They disappear, not to be seen again.."
>
> >
>
> > So, maybe you could start in first place to identify who are "we",
> "many",
>
> > Messenger of which group or network you are and what are actually your
> group
>
> > views on the current situation in the TS and its future besides
> supporting
>
> > the illegal activity of the TS President and Mr. Pedro Oliveira.
>
> >
>
> > You know, the methods you use are very familiar to me as they were used
>
> > against me by Communist Party and its political police and now their
>
> > "democratic" successors, as well as by Head of my theosophical mother
> lodge,
>
> > so I have something less than thirty years of experience with this kind
> of
>
> > operation. And I can equally understand your disappointment when I didn't
>
> > want to accept your proposed unethical behavior towards those who contact
> me
>
> > as this also happened many times before.
>
> >
>
> > I don't fear the consequences for, as I already said, I don't have much
> to
>
> > loose. But I certainly don't want to loose my human right for personal
>
> > freedom and free expression of views and ideas. I don't have intention to
>
> > disappear or to finish my life yet although it would be great relief as I
> am
>
> > really tired to fight this unequal battle.
>
> >
>
> > So, go ahead and good luck,
>
> > Anton
>
> >
>
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>,
>
>
> > Messenger <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > A TS memberÃââs observation on non-existent Problem
>
> > >
>
> > > Sometime ago, a very observant TS member wrote in an online forum:
>
> > >
>
> > > ÃâËIt appears to me that the difference in our opinion is the premise
> you
>
> > > state: "that Theosophical Society has definite difficulties in its
>
> > > functioning and further on assumed that these difficulties are related
> to
>
> > > the: .. Lack of clear common vision about the nature of our Society.Ãâ
>
> > >
>
> > > Many of us don't see it the way you present it and therefore don't
> agree
>
> > > with either your presumption that there is a problem or your presumed
>
> > > solution to a non-existant problem. This recent activity identifying
> the
>
> > > "difficulties" within the TS appears to simply be the campaigning by
>
> > > individuals (yourself included) to project their own ideas onto the
>
> > > membership at large. This has happened many times before (As seen in
>
> > xxx's
>
> > > comment below - where all of those who believed their sectarianism was
>
> > THE
>
> > > correct one started their own TS) and will continue..Ãâ
>
> > >
>
> > > When we look at the discussions on operational matters of TS brought up
>
> > by
>
> > > some, many frequent participants and others have contributed their
> views
>
> > > and arguments. Some were very passionate. In the case of some of them,
>
> > many
>
> > > had serious doubts about their real identities especially when
>
> > > unsubstantiated allegations were made by them. But when disguise is
> used
>
> > to
>
> > > avoid personal responsibility for their statements, it is a wholly
>
> > different
>
> > > matter. We know what happens when the disguise is about to be unmasked.
>
> > > They disappear, not to be seen again.
>
> > >
>
> > > In the light of the above and other discussions on this list, it is
> time
>
> > to
>
> > > look at and see what are the real immediate key issues around the TS
>
> > where
>
> > > it is worthwhile to concentrate our efforts. I will try to discuss them
>
> > in a
>
> > > message I plan to post soon.
>
> > >
>
> > > Messenger (aka MKR)
>
> > >
>
> > > Visit www.theosophy. net and enjoy
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer
> 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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