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Re: Theos-World Overshadowing

May 06, 2009 09:56 AM
by Govert Schuller

Dear Cass,

Thanks for the elaboration on the why and how of K's possible 'spiritual amnesia.'

The picture is different though as 1) K was only intermittently overshadowed during those years (mostrly during his public talks, especially toward the end of a talk if one would belief Hodson), therefore not for a continuous stretch of three years as you assume, and 2) K was aware of what was going on during such overshadowings as there are instances where he was capable of reflecting back on such events and therefore was not in a state of amnesia.  

Again, the whole memory issue is very tricky, complex, multi-layered, etc. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:15 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Overshadowing

  I would suspect that the disingagement came from Maitreya's end and not from JK.
  This is an extract from Master KH on concentration and  union with the higher self.

  Concentrate on the idea of the Higher Self., say for one half an hour at first. Permit no other thought. By degrees you will be able to unite your consciousness with the Higher Self. The Higher Self is always to be sought for within. To look outside is a fatal mistake. 
  The effort to be made is to reach the highest state of which you are capable and to hold yourself there. The registration of consciousness of this higher plane takes place at the last moment of the passage back to the physical, and this, together with the fact that "the Double" is often active, often produces a state of double consciousness, and the latter is a source of error. 
  In acquiring the power of concentration the first step is one of blankness. Then follows, by degrees, consciousness, and finally the passage between the two states becomes so rapid and easy as to be almost unnoticed. During the moment of concentration the body is in a brown study and retains a sort of dream perception (this of course applies only to chelas). 
  The great difficulty to be overcome is the registration of the knowledge of the Higher Self on the physical plane.  To accomplish this, the physical brain must be made an entire blank to all but the Higher Consciousness; and the double (or astral body) must be paralyzed or error and confusion will result.
  In the first place, try to put yourself in such a state as not to feel anything that happens to the physical body, in fact to separate yourself from your body. If in this attempt you feel anything, any foreign influence coming into you from outside, break off the concentration at once.
  Cass: Union then with and from an outside source (union of self with Maitreya) suggests the same method.

  So what I was trying to point out was that JK's physical brain would have been the vehicle for Maitreya's
  words but once Maitreya withdrew JK's physical brain would have been as it was, prior to the experience, with
  very little memory of what had occured during those three years.  A sort of spiritual amnesia, if you like.


  From: Govert Schuller <>
  Sent: Tuesday, 5 May, 2009 1:28:19 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Overshadowing

  Dear Cass,

  Please refrase your question as I do not see the implied logic between K having no memory of the overshadowings and his teachings becoming more intellectual. 

  As I see it, K's teachings becoming more intellectual didn't have to do with his memory, but with the fact that he gradually disengaged his consciousness from Maitreya and fell back on an exoteric version of Vedanta, which understanding was brought over from a previous life. The whole move from 'vehicle' to 'thinker' was fed by his residual ego which rebelled against the demands for being a 'vehicle.' Another factor in play was that his physical body had a very hard time with the energies that came with the project. If you read the descriptions of the Process you can get a sense why. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro 
  Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:26 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Overshadowing

  Thanks Govert

  I suppose one could argue that JK fulfilled his commitment from 1921-1925
  it seems that all past overshadowing appears to be limited to a 3-4 year
  period. One has to wonder if there are physiological changes that occur in
  the brain and if those changes can only be maintained for a set time period.
  Could the possibility exist that JK had no 'recall or memory' of those 3 years and
  hence his teachings became more intellectual?

  Thank you for your interest and your excellent research.


  ____________ _________ _________ __
  From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro
  Sent: Monday, 4 May, 2009 4:08:43 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....

  Dear Cass,

  Good questions. Whether he was overshadowed depends on believing K's own and other's reports that that had indeed been the case. At least he acknowledged the first overshadowing on December 28, 1925 and Hodson has some clairvoyant descriptions of an overshadowing at the (probably) 1926 Star Camp in Ommen. 

  If I'd try to make a rough periodization of his teachings it would be as follows:

  1) 1911-1921: Simple, inspirational teachings inspired by, and flowing from, the booklet "At the Feet of the Masters" with many Hindu and Theosophical themes like the Masters, purification, preparation for the Coming, etc. Very bhakti.

  2) 1921-1925: As the process of his awakening started (the 'Process') his discourse becomes more experiential, personal, poetic, passionate and mystical. 

  3) 1925-1927: During the stretch of ca. 1.5 years of being overshadowed many times during public talks the language seems to be more soft, motherly, slightly Biblical. 

  4) 1927-1933: The creeping dissatisfaction with his role, Theosophy and his followers is reflected in his speeches, which become slightly more provocative, stern, denunciatory, arrogant, impatient, etc.

  5) 1933-1986: The 'mature' teachings stripped of all esoteric, occult, Theosophical terms and ideas. 

  To me these phases in K's language reflect the spiritual-intellect ual path that he took from devotee, to mystic, to vehicle, to rebel, to thinker. The high point was when he was the vehicle, after which he fell, and pretended he had not. 

  Jinarajadasa, who stayed in contact with K till he died, thought K was initially full of love and inspiration, but had tossed that attitude and replaced it with a cold, stern philosophy, with which he "stiffed the Indian people." He implored K many times to pick up his more loving stand. Hodson also believed in that capacity of K and hoped it would come out again. 

  I'm sure his later teachings can also be sub-divided. There might have been some change when he went back to india after WWII and a change in the 70s, when he became open to discuss his teachings with intellectuals. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro 
  Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 10:23 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....

  I have heard it stated that Krishnamurti seemed more
  wise at the beginning of his campaign - but do we know
  if he was really overshadowed or not? Did his teachings
  differ during his life?


  ____________ _________ _________ __
  From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro
  Sent: Friday, 1 May, 2009 2:05:44 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....

  Interesting. Krishnamurti held out for ca. 1.5 years. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro 
  Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....

  According to tradition - the overshadowed can only
  maintain this energy for a period of 1-3 years, so
  how do you explain Maitreya's overshadowing on
  this timeframe? 


  ____________ _________ _________ __
  From: Antonio/Tony None <spirit777child@ uk>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro
  Sent: Thursday, 30 April, 2009 6:33:05 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....

  Hi D,

  This is an interesting topic and one which i have studied for many years. I have kept my eye on the ball so to speak regarding the changes around the world and they way specific events tie into this philosophy or ideal. 

  The Cosmic Christ in my opinion is none other than Maitreya. The World teacher and unifer.

  Maitryea is amongst us now, living in London and yet to reveal himself to the world. I believe that Maitreya is an energy that overshadows individuals. In the past many prophetic individuals like Christ, Buddah, Mohammed, Khrishna and so have all been overshadowed by Maitreya. 

  In our time i feel that the shell (Person) Maitreya will eventually overshadow is amongst us now and has experienced progressivly stronger and more intense overshadowing' s during his/her life.

  The remnents of Maitreya's visits unto this shell has allowed the individual person who will eventually be known as the world teacher to use his/her inner/third eye to prepare themselves for the final overshadowing. 

  With Maitreya's energies this individual will become connected to the source you speak of. Be it the path the tao or as Mr Lucas would prefer to call it, the force...

  In any event this energy would allow that particular individual to see all life like neo in the matrix. Not green lines of 1 and 0's but more to the point the true fabric or make up of all existence. With this vision he will be able to correct the unaligned properties which at present at responsible for the chaos in this world.

  I also beleive he will prepare us all for an allagorical armeggedon. Perhaps not so much on the physical plane but most certainly on the spiritual. Thus allowing us to remove our inner evils/Djinns/ or devils and become consciously aware in the process. This awareness will ultimatly put the planet in synch and as a result we will have a global consciousness and thus the new world order will become a positive reality unifying all under one religion one currency one body of government with Maitreya at the head of this government. Maitryea will
  be working alongside a group of masters who have been preparing for his/her coming and who will work alongside Maitreya to correct the balance of the world and bring us out of the age of pisces (christ-Individuali sm) and bring us into the age of aquarius (Maitreya-Synchroni city). 

  This will be aided by our current government through a planned apocolypse which is needed as a catalyst for change into a new form of consciousness. 

  I feel project Blue Beam will be at the heart of this theatricle and will be televised by the world as we see a cataclysm of falling comets, Planet x/Nibiru arriving and becoming brighter both day and night in the sky and the visitation of extra terrestrial life. (Annunaki, Nephilim, realians, Angels). 

  This leaves us with the identy of Maitreya and the means with which he/she will show themselves to the world. My personally beleive is that he will arrive via music. This art form touches the masses like no other form of energy and i truely believe he/she will be readying the world with an album of deeply spiritual significance. On this album he/she will bring knowledge to the world and a declaration that he/she is the new age chirst/Maitreya.

  You may ask me why i believe this...well I have been working on my Album entitled Maitreya (The Falling Away) for the last 9 months and this has been and ongoing process which started when i was at the tender age of 13 i am now 33 the age christ was when he fulfilled prophecy. I am also an Aquarian and I live in london. On June the 22nd (Solar Eclipse) My album will be delivered to all places of Spiritual worship, to local media and to parts of the music industry. This will potentially start a snowball effect and thus my emergence onto the world stage will begin. However this will be down to the people of the world and if they are actually ready to accept this eventuality before it is too late.

  With Peace and Love Antonio.

  --- On Thu, 30/4/09, danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
  From: danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@>
  Subject: Theos-World In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ....
  To: theos-talk@yahoogro
  Date: Thursday, 30 April, 2009, 3:12 AM

  "In Search of the Primordial Tradition and the Cosmic Christ:

  Uniting World Religious Experience With a Lost Esoteric Christianity"

  by John Rossner

  In this book the reader will be presented with the case for the

  existence - throughout the ancient world - of a widespread belief in

  (1) a Primordial Tradition of primal wisdom derived from the higher

  forms of human mystical and psychical experience, and (2) the cult of

  a universal "God-Man" or pre-existent "Cosmic Christ," based upon

  visionary and intuitive experiences which helped to stimulate the

  very birth of Christianity as a world-religion.

  The Primordial Tradition is like the "Sanatana Dharma" of the Hindus,

  the "Living Torah" of the mystical Jews, the "Tao" of the Chinese,

  the "Path" of the Sufis, or the "Way, Truth and Life" of Jesus in the

  Christian gospels. It is found in every religion and can be owned

  exclusively by none. It has left its traces as "sparks among the

  stubble" in varied forms and in various degrees of luminosity in all

  human cultures. Its scattered fragments of primal insight and

  intuitive wisdom may be found by those who have eyes to see and ears

  to hear.

  There is evidence that a now-lost esoteric Christianity, complete

  with belief in a pre-existent, archetypical "God-Man" or "Cosmic

  Christ," was once understood by its founder (Jesus) and earliest

  fashioner (Paul) as a particular synthesis of the larger Primordial

  Tradition, which had already long entered the mainstream of sectarian

  Jewish mystical consciousness. Jesus might thus be viewed as an heir

  of the mystery traditions of Egypt, Persia and Greece, and of the

  wisdom traditions of India, as well as an heir of the "Law and the

  Prophets" of Israel.

  The Primordial Tradition is not merely an ancient system of belief

  and practice to be found in its entirety in any one or several

  historical cultures. It is, rather, a whole set of archetypical

  realities waiting to be discovered, at the highest reaches of the

  human consciousness, by all people. Similarly the lost esoteric

  Christianity, which often seems to elude ordinary modern

  practitioners of organized, "exoteric" forms of the Christian

  religion, is to be found - like Jesus' description of the Kingdom of

  God itself - deep within the psyche (soul) of the seeker.

  For a picture of the cover plus ordering information, see:

  http://blavatskyarc jesuschrist. htm#rossner

  See other titles at:

  http://blavatskyarc jesuschrist. htm

  See also:

  Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We

  Never Knew by Bart D. Ehrman

  http://blavatskyarc Ehrmanbibliograp hy.htm#Lost

  And other recommended readings on Christianity at:

  http://blavatskyarc Ehrmanbibliograp hy.htm

  I am currently working on a list of other books that deal

  specifically with Esoteric Christianity.


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