Re: Theos-World Re: To Govert: Part 1 ---- HPB's Claims
Apr 15, 2009 09:19 AM
by Govert Schuller
I have to respond again in the negative to your question: No, I don't know of anybody making a similar claim before HPB did about knowing M and KH.
The question still is about what could be reasonably deduced from that.
But, before proceeding, I ask you again:
"Anyway, according to HPB herself it should have been quite possible [that some might have known M and KH], because in the quote you provided she says about the brotherhood of which they were members that it was "hitherto unknown to Europe and America ... , yet sacred and revered throughout the East, and especially India...." Now, if I may, I'd like to ask you if you know of any evidence to support that claim [of this Brotherhood being widely known]. [?]"
The question was asked to bring out a couple of curious dichotomies:
1) The West didn't know about this Brotherhood even if it had colonized for more than 4 centuries the East, where this Brotherhood was revered according to HPB. How could the West, having planted itself smack in the middle of the East, stayed ignorant of such a Brotherhood?
2) M and KH were initially exclusivley known only to HPB, while the Brotherhood of which they were member was widely known throughout India. Of course this is technically not impossible: If both claims are true one has to deduce they were secret members of that Brotherhood (at least till HPB outed them). The question for me then is about how to deal with this tension between the high exclusivity of M and KH in the life of HPB and the high visibility of the Brotherhood in the East.
Now, my inquiring mind wants some more facts to get a better handle on these intrinsically interesting and important claims. And that leads me to the initial question about the possible evidence for the claim that the Brotherhood in question was known, sacred and revered in the East, especially India.
Have you found any evidence for that?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:24 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: To Govert: Part 1 ---- HPB's Claims
Again I ask:
"Are there written documents PRIOR to HPB's writings in which someone else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?"
I am not aware of any other documents. Yes Morya and Koot Hoomi were their initiatory names.
I'm sorry if you don't think Sinnett's words amount to much but I again repeat them for readers to consider:
"Madame Blavatsky is the CENTRAL FIGURE to be considered. She was THE
ONE PERSON who knew of her own knowledge, that The Brothers, - as she
called them in those days - were Beings, human in aspect, of flesh
and blood, for she had been for a time in company with two of them in
Tibet. She knew they had dazzling powers in dealing with the affairs
of the world. She herself had faculties of a super-physical order
that kept her in touch with them wherever she might be...." caps added.
If you know of some other person prior to Madame Blavatsky, then please let us know.
As far as I can tell, HPB was the first to come on the public stage and tell us that she was in contact with these two Masters and give the source teachings of modern Theosophy in 10,000 + pages of writings plus the letters of the Masters given out during HPB's life.
All other persons who claimed to be in contact with these same Masters came forth later and mostly after HPB died.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> wrote:
> Dear Daniel,
> You asked:
> "Are there written documents prior to HPB's writings in which someone else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?"
> I have no answer to that as I have not looked for such. At the same time, to make the issue slightly more complex, it is possible (and I did point this out before I think) that their names were nomes de plume.
> Anyway, according to HPB herself it should have been quite possible, because in the quote you provided she says about the brotherhood if which they were members that it was "hitherto unknown to Europe and America ... , yet sacred and revered throughout the East, and especially India...."
> Now, if I may, I'd like to ask you if you know of any evidence to support that claim.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: danielhcaldwell
> To: email@example.com
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Theos-World To Govert: Part 1 ---- HPB's Claims
> Here are some of HPB's claims:
> *Isis Unveiled* I, v-vi, vii: "The work now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat intimate acquaintance with Eastern adepts and study of their science....we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly designate them as the sages of the Orient. To thier instructions we lent a ready ear.... Our work...is a plea for the recognition of the Hermetic philosoophy, the anciently universal Wisdom Religion."
> *The Path*, Dec., 1886, p. 257: "...I was the first in the United States to bring the existence of our Masters into publicity...[and] exposed the holy names of two members of a Brotherhood hitherto unknown to Europe and America (save to a few mystics and Initiates of every age), yet sacred and revered throughout the East, and especially India...."
> *The Key to Theosophy*, 1889 ed., pp. 302 & 301: "We Theosophists were, unfortunately, the first to talk of these things, to make the fact of the existence of in the East of `Adepts' and `Masters' and Occult knowledge known....Great are the desecrations to which the names of two of the Masters have been subjected. There is hardly a medium who has not claimed to have seen them. Every bogus swindling Society, for commercial purposes, now claims to be guided and directed by `Masters,' often supposed to be far higher than ours!...."
> Are there written documents prior to HPB's writings in which someone
> else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?
> This was the point I was trying to make in one or more prior postings.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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