Re: Theos-World J. Krishnamurti's RAMBLING
Mar 31, 2009 02:48 PM
by Govert Schuller
Ok, Anand, you caught me there. 8^)
Instead of 'flashes of transcendental insights,' the correct quote should have been:
'rare flashes of transcendental wisdom.' Sorry.
The full quote runs as thus:
"Krishnamurti's utterances are an extraordinary blend of rare flashes of transcendental wisdom, penetrating intelligence, incomprehensibility, prejudice, intolerance and vituperation."
My only point was that such 'flashes' could be found in K's teachings and to bolster my point I brought in Hodson.
Nothing less, nothing more. No misquote, no 'out of context,' nor ignoring Hodson's views, as you incorrectly allege.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World J. Krishnamurti's RAMBLING
It is not clear why Govert misquoted Hodson's one partial remark while ignoring Hodson's opinion expressed in many passages about JK's teaching. Here is what Hodson says
"An intense and prolonged effort of the mind to get behind the words of Krishnamurti, to arrive somewhere, produces strange mental sensations. I confess that, apart from rare moments of illumination for which I am profoundly grateful, I find myself for the most part in a maze of somewhat resentful hopelessness."
There are many such statements and passages written by Hodson on rambling of J. Krishnamurti.
--- In email@example.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
> Dear Govert,
> It is a well known fact that J. Krishnamurti's teaching is not understood by many. Ever since he started teaching independently, there were large number of people who admitted they don't understand what he says.
> J. Krishnamurti before dying said that not one person understood his teaching. So if you are claiming you understand his teaching, perhaps it could be wrong.
> After listening to JK many people went to Annie Besant and said they did not understand JK's teaching. Annie's advised them just to listen (I think she expected improvement in K's teaching later). I can write long essay from my experiences with people how people did not understand K's teaching and how many of them admitted they did not understand.
> There are some statements of K which are very clear about his rejection of Masters, path, evolution, spiritual organizations and rejection of learning from books. And I commented on that.
> But there are many speeches of JK which are simply ramblings. In fact I never came across a person who could give me as many points from JK's teaching which could justify filling of 80 books, that are being printed by Krishnamurti Foundation. As this is very important point, I am writing again.
> I NEVER CAME ACROSS A PERSON WHO COULD GIVE ME AS MANY POINTS FROM JK'S TEACHING WHICH COULD JUSTIFY FILLING OF 80 BOOKS.
> I found that Krishnamurti foundation spends much on advertizing. I saw advertisements of JK's books so many times on internet. That makes me think whether JK's influence is because of great marketing skill or because of the merit of his teaching. He, of course, has great advantage in marketing because TS called him World Teacher, The Christ.
> Anand Gholap
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@> wrote:
> > Not so, Anand. Formwise his speeches are well crafted as K developed his skill over many, many years. He knew how to make his points most of the time in a quite lucid way and actually passed on some, as Hodson also observed, 'flashes of transcendental insights.'
> > There are only rare passages where I found that his talks fell apart in what could be called a 'rambling,' especially when he leaves his discourse on psychology and meditation and tries his hand at more strictly philosophical themes like when he equates thought with matter or tries to develop an epistemology. To me it's clear that, fortunately or not, he had no training at that level and didn't have a clear sense of the boundery between the field where he could exert some authority and where he was on thin ice.
> > Imo K was trained in both inner and outer levels to be the WT and that project could only be pulled off if he had build up throughout his past lives a tacit, innate capacity to speak to large crowds. He did so from an early age and gained more precision and lucidity along the way. So, K's highly developed skill to expound on complicated spiritual matters is for me another indication that the WT project was genuine.
> > Now, contentwise it's a whole different matter as I do not agree with most of his assumptions and the elaborate explications of them. I know you don't agree with him either, but it looks that you might be confusing perceived un-truths with ramblings. If they were really ramblings than that would imply there wouldn't be anything to agree or disagree with as one could not even understand K's discourse in the first place. And that's certainly not the case.
> > BTW, calling K a satanist is not really helping the cause of a carefull Theosophical deconstruction of K's life and teachings either. Au contraire, you're muddying the discussion with an unsupported and unsuportable slander. Not helpful, nor very Theosophical. We're here to help each other sort out the truth, not to pronounce anathemas.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Anand
> > To: email@example.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:55 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World J. Krishnamurti's RAMBLING
> > Precise word for J. Krishnamurti's speeches is RAMBLING.
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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