Re: Theos-World Re: Zaitzev's new thread on CWL - Theosophical Society
Jul 24, 2008 07:36 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
You might add, that C. W. Leadbeater in the report added, that he first learned about these sexual teachings at the Church of England.
And therefore not by H. P. Blavatsky, because H. S. Olcott most likely would have known about this, and since he was the leader of the meeting the 16th of may 1906.
Try to also read the various PDF-files from the Krotona Archives. The will inform about what happened after the meeting took place.
Also the letters from Annie Besant and to Annie Besant before and after the meeting:
Annie Besant wrote in august 1906:
"Having received additional evidence from the American Section of the TS against CWL, Annie Besant issued a circular letter to members of the E.S. on 27th July 1906. It represented a major and dramatic shift in her attitude towards him for she declared that "Mr Leadbeater is so obviously convinced of the propriety of the practice recommended, that he must either be regarded as, on this point, insane, or a victim of that glamour which is the deadliest weapon of the Dark Powers against those who seek to hasten their evolution by treading the dangerous path of occultism. It is this glamour which, I believe, is enwrapping him." She also wrote: "I have had in Mr Leadbeater a friend, always helpful, always loyal, always kind and considerate, always prompt to sympathize and encourage. My life is the sadder and the poorer for his loss. But the T.S. and E.S. must stand clear from teaching that pollutes and degrades, and it is right that Mr Leadbeater is no longer with us.""
C. W. Leadbeaters answer to the above letter is here down the page:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Zaitzev's new thread on CWL - Theosophical Society
thank you for this posting of yours
very direct and clear, i just translated your post to portuguese and
posted in a brazilian forum of theosophy
i totally agree with you
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> Dear Zaitzev and all
> My views are:
> Zaitzev, You asked a question about what happened when C. W.
Leadbeater became a member again, and I sought to politely answer it.
> Now I perceive, that you try to cook another thread. Am I right?
> Allright I will answer.
> 1) The books authored by C. W. Leadbeater was and is today being
sold by TS Adyar.
> If he should have sold them himself after the 1906 resignation or
exclusion, it would have been a very different issue would i not?
> The actual proof of C. W. Leadbeater's paedophile will only remain
in the Akasha.
> What we have in the physical is the Report from 16th maj 1906.
> Here is the Report in a large PDF-file.
> In this C. W. Leadbeater admitted the following:
> a) He "taught" boys masturbating - what that actually meant was unclear;
> "taught" is clearly different from "adviced boys not to think about
> b) there had been "indicative action" - what that meant was unclear;
> c) there had maybe been "touch" involved - what that menat was unclear;
> d) it had involved boys, which had not sought his advice about the
> e) it had involved pre-puberty boys;
> f) C. W. Leadbeater said at the meeting, that he regretted that he
did not inform the parents
> about what or how he taught the boys.
> g) it had according to C. W. Leadbeater involved a num ber of boys
(but appearntly leass than 20 all in all)
> h) That parts of the Catholic Church and Church of England according
to C. W. Leadbeater's own statements used the same method as C. W.
Leadbeater towards young boys. The same Church H. P. Blavatsky 15
years earlier named to be directly in opposition to the theosophical
teachings! (Try the article "Theosophy or Jesuitism?" by H. P. Blavatsky)
> According to Gregory Tillett one such group could have been the one
called "Uranian". A Anglo-Catholic, artisitisk, mystical circle, which
glorfied boys sexuality.
> The Report from this particular meeting was transcribed and approved
by G.R.S. Mead and A.M. Glass who both attended the meeting. The
Report was subsequently copied several times.
> C. W. Leadbeater never officially questioned the truth of the
content of this Report. He however a few days later mentioned to Annie
Besant in a private letter, that G.R.S. Mead was particularly nasty
towards him at the meeting. Lradbeater used the word "nasty". And
G.R.S. Mead was H. P. Blavatsky private secretary for her last 3-4
years. It was he who read the paper at her funeral. Later G.R.S. Mead
resgined from the TS. Problably because C. W. Leadbeater was allowed
inside the TS again.
> I will assume like others have done, that anyone, who today in UK
and a number of other countries, 'educates' pre-puberty and puberty
boys to masturbate and uses 'indicative action' and maybe 'touch' -
and who does this without asking the parents of the children could
easily expect criminal charges and even a sentence of a severe kind!
> All the above, which one can gather from the online report puts the
case in a perspective, where C. W. Leadbeater's behaviour no matter
how well-intentioned it was - is unacceptableto the theosophical
teachings I myself know of. And especially because he taught the boys
what he did without informing the parents. Something he himself
regretted during the mentioned meeting. And we will also have to take
the time of the actitivies into account. The year was only 1906 or
> Anyone can read the report and tell me if they disagree with my
conclusions. I might have overlooked something, who knows.
> I know the above words sparks serious emotions or reactions among
> Yet we can as far as I am concerned easily continue to do as H. P.
Blavatsky suggested "cull the good we find in each". That is each
teaching and book we come across, whether it call itself theosophical
or not. Also books by C. W. Leadbeater. Prejudice should not be the
hallmark of the theosophical Seekers. - Yet I will think twice even
today if I promote his books and sells them - instead of shelving them
in the library together with the above mentioned report.
> When we as Seekers start to walk the Path - and start praticing the
Occult and deal with clairvoyance, we sometimes fall. And I find that
C. W. Leadbeater fell. He tries to get on his feet again, and ended as
a bishop wearing the hat and all. Maybe that was the best, maybe not.
One can say, that C. W. Leadbeater created a lot of turmoil.
> I personally still find the great dislike for everything which have
to do with the Catholic Church. To me they are in opposition to what
theosphical teachings are seeking to promote.
> - - - - - - -
> H. P. Blavatsky said:
> "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to
shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate
real universal love extending even to the dumb brute".
> (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)
> Zaitzev asked:
> "And how it is so that most of your messages here are about
> paedophiles, while there are many other points in CWL's writings which
> can be discussed, like his beliefs in God, which arent quite in line
> with those of Mahatma letters. Maybe you need a help of psychoanalyst?"
> You must be joking Zaitvev. It was you who started to ask me about
the issue. I started a thread about sexuality as such. And try to read
all my messages through the years I have been a member here. I think
some the old members will tell you something is wrong with your view.
I think I became a member the first time in year 1999-2000 or
something like that.
> We Theosophists are not using psychologists. But a Master will
always come in handy.
> Any besides almost any psychologist would easily say that any member
at this place need help.
> M. Sufilight
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Konstantin Zaitzev
> To: email@example.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Cheers ! Theosophical Society succeeded
in attaining it's object
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@>
> > When he became a member again he was allowed to teach and travel
> > around the world. He authored several books.
> No one could prohibit him to write the books. And they meet good
> demand after 100 years.
> > Just imagine how many paedophile victim's will feel when they read
> > this and join the TS Adyar.
> You haven't presented ANY proofs of Leadbeaters paedophily. At best
> these documents suggest that he taught boys certain sexual practices.
> I've heard that psychologists in the west nowdays recommend the same.
> Moreover, not only paedophily but mere homosexuality was
> victorian England a serious crime. Oscar Wilde suffered for it. So if
> there were any serious proofs, Leadbeater would be surely imprisoned.
> And how it is so that most of your messages here are about
> paedophiles, while there are many other points in CWL's writings
> can be discussed, like his beliefs in God, which arent quite in line
> with those of Mahatma letters. Maybe you need a help of psychoanalyst?
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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