Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism
May 30, 2008 05:07 AM
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Anand" <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
> I was saying that Masters gave certain ideas through the TS using
> disciples like HPB, AB, CWL. These ideas included God. It will be
> strange if we assume that these disciples invented God, when Masters
> did not approve it.
If you read "Isis Unveiled", "The Secret Doctrine" and "The Key to
Theosophy", you will see that none of these books supports the idea
of a personal God. In the Besant-Leadbeater literature, the concept
of God is strongly associated with the Greek notion of "Logos", the
Creative Word, the Divine Intelligence. As I see it, neither of the
concepts just mentioned supports the idea of the Aristotelian-Tomist
God of the theologians. K.H. referred to it as a "loup garou", a
werewolf, in other words, an aberration. The word "God" is one of the
most emotionally and ideologically loaded concepts in existence.
> > As far as I can see, in the Mahatma letter which I quoted K.H. is
> > attacking the wise teachers who left a legacy of wisdom.
> According to wise teachers like Jesus, Shankaracharya and most other
> teachers God exists. In fact Indian spiritual writings tell that God
> is the only one who exists and forms which we see are maya or
> illusion. Do you want to say that these teachers made a mistake of
> inventing God ? In Jesus' teaching God, the Father is most
The word "God" does not belong to the Indian tradition. It is
originated in the Old Testament. Words that refer to the Divine
Ground in the Indian tradition are "Brahman" (Vastness), "Shiva"
(Auspicious, Good), "Parabrahman" (Absolute, Eternal), among others.
In the Jesus teachings, the concept of "God" assumes an immediacy
which is deeply mystical ("I and my Father are one"). This is very
different from the Aristotelian concept of God as the "First Mover",
a universal machine. In Christian theology, the Aristotelian
viewpoint won the war and the Neo-Platonic view of the early Church
fathers like Clement of Alexandria and Origen (both Initiates
accodring to HPB) was suppressed, hunted down and proclaimed as being
> Same is true in all Indian spiritual writings and Hinduism. In Gita
> Shree Krishna shows to Arjuna how everything exists in God, how
> everything and everyone lives and ceases to exist in God. Do you
> to say that Shree Krishna was telling false things to Arjuna ?
The word "God" simply does not exist in the text of the Bhagavad
Gita. The word which is used is "Ishwara", 'Supreme Spirit'.
> With the exception of Buddhism, in all great religions God is
> how many followers of Buddhism are there in the world ? As compared
> followers of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism combined,
> followers of Buddhism are very few. It appears that their no-God
> is not appreciated by the intuition of large number of people.
If you are born in a Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Jewish family,
do you have much choice? Normally, a child will be educated and
condiotioned according to the religion of his or her parents. I think
that if you search for statistics of religious affiliation today, you
would be surprised with the number of Buddhists in the world. I am
sure it is nowadays over a billion people. In Australian, Buddhism is
the fastest growing religion, particularly among young people who
have declared themselves frustrated and utterly disappointed with
Christianity and its many dogmatic aspects.
> I also see one more meaning in the letter. Masters might be saying
> that dependence on old religions should lessen and advanced people
> should rely on new and better religions like Theosophy, LCC.
> don't think Theosophy and LCC can be understood by common people.
> These can become religion for more advanced souls. For common
> Christianity will still be very useful in keeping people on the path
> of virtue.
This may be a very dangerous notion: "religion for more advanced
souls". Who is the judge? Who can judge? What are the criteria? If a
person finds inspiration and clarity in any teaching that is their
business. When the Portuguese arrived in Brazil in 1500, the jesuit
fathers that came with them gave them permission to kill native
aborigenes because, according to their theology, the aborigenes did
not have a soul! As a result, one of the Portuguese explorers once
came back from a jungle incursion bringing nothing less than 7,000
ears that his men had cut off from the aborigenes they had killed. In
other words, the jesuits' "God" was nothing less than a gigantic
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