Theos-Talk Archives (January 2008 Message tt00230)

Hi Nigel,

I think we agree in spirit, however I would still suggest that we can 
find wisdom of equal value outside of Blavatsky and the Mahatma 
letters, this is my main point.
Another good quotation is St Pauls advise:

"So, people who think they are standing firmly should be careful that 
they don't fall."

I always liked this one.

Best Wishes 

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Perry
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> The proverb you quote is full of wisdom to me. From its innate 
wisdom 
> however it would seem not to insist on its theoretical or practical 
> application in each and every situation.
> 
> You write, "?we should always be prepared to be prepared to listen 
to 
> others regardless of where that source maybe."
> Whilst this is obviously wise in many circumstances, it becomes 
> nonsensical dogma in others.
> 
> Consider the example of an airline pilot who has collapsed at the 
> flight control lever during flight. To whom would we turn for 
advice 
> and action? Mr Smith, an accountant or Mrs Jones a competent 
airline 
> pilot?
> 
> We are not all equal in every situation and our opinions and 
> competence are not necessarily equal in credibility or expertise. 
> 
> Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and quantum mechanics has 
> certainly caused us to be more cautious and less dogmatic about our 
> previously held convictions concerning the nature of life. Indeed 
> these aspects of science were foretold by Madame Blavatsky.  Post-
> modern thought has done the same. But neither of these mindsets 
> should be considered as absolutes where nothing is certain anymore 
> and all opinions considered equal in value. Sir Isaac Newton's 
> clockwork universe is alive and well at our "earthly" level of 
> functioning.
> In our dimension of consciousness there are countless numbers of 
> invariables. A person who falls from a thousand feet onto solid 
> concrete will die. Another who is deprived of oxygen for one hour 
at 
> room temperature will suffer the same fate. And a competent airline 
> pilot's opinion and expertise is more valid and credible than is an 
> accountant's, whose opinion is unimportant when flying a plane.
> 
> Madame Blavatsky and her teachers have more than ably demonstrated 
a 
> profound knowledge and competence concerning the machinations of 
the 
> cosmic process. Not simply by their words alone, which are often 
> metaphorical and symbolic, but to where these take many of us in 
our 
> inner journey and explorations of consciousness.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, and to repeat once again, this doesn't 
> necessarily mean that they had or have all the answers, or that 
they 
> were entirely accurate in absolutely everything. Time and the 
> evolution of consciousness alone will determine this. 
> And to repeat yet again, never did they demand to be believed or 
> followed and to my knowledge none in this forum has suggested this 
> nor that a "Blavatsky tick of approval" is required. 
> Can you point out where you claim this occurred?
> And even if someone has, are you not denying them the very thing 
you 
> are demanding, equality of speech and opinion?
> 
> In a similar vein to your biblical quote, one of my favourites 
comes 
> from Shakespeare;
> 
> "....But man, proud man, 
> Drest in a little brief authority, 
> Most ignorant of what he's most assur'd, 
> His glassy essence, like an angry ape, 
> Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven, 
> As make the angels weep...."
> 
> Kind regards
> Nigel  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "plcoles1" <plcoles1@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Nigel,
> > To be sure it is important not to become arrogant in our 
> > understanding of things and we should always be prepared to be 
> > prepared to listen to others regardless of where that source 
maybe.
> > 
> > It reminds me of a passage from the book of Proverbs 3: 5 that I 
> was 
> > inculcated with as a child.
> > 
> > "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely on your 
> > insight. In all ways acknowledge him and he will make straight 
your 
> > paths"
> > 
> > This scripture can be used as an excuse for blind faith if taken 
I 
> > would suggest in the wrong way but in the spirit of the passage 
it 
> > speaks of wisdom and the need for humility in order to be able to 
> be 
> > open to spiritual influence.
> > 
> > The paramitas of Buddhism also establish a spiritual mode of 
being 
> > and functioning.
> > Humility is essential to develop receptivity to spiritual 
realities.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Perry
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The use of  "personal" experience as our ultimate determinant 
for 
> > > that which is "right" or "wrong" can be a highly flawed process.
> > > 
> > > After all, how much and which part of our self makes these 
> > > determinations? More often than not, isn't it our heavily 
> > programmed, 
> > > habit conditioned personality, founded in its inherited and 
> > acquired 
> > > fears, preferences, attachments and identifications? 
> > > To continually insist on ourselves and our experience to be our 
> > final 
> > > arbiter, can in itself be just another strong dogma, one 
perhaps 
> > > lacking humility and potentially possessing not an 
inconsiderable 
> > > amount of fear-based pride.
> > > 
> > > How are we to approach the works of Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr 
or 
> > > Pauli, each giants in their field? Yes, they made mistakes, but 
> are 
> > > we to diminish or even devalue the profundity of their 
> > pronouncements 
> > > simply because we have not experienced or perhaps even 
understood 
> > for 
> > > ourselves their mental discoveries? Are we even to consider 
> > ourselves 
> > > on an equal footing, insisting that we will accept nothing they 
> > have 
> > > written and proven until we "discover" or "experience" it for 
> > > ourselves?
> > > 
> > > Of course we need guard against blindly following another's 
> > > pronouncements and we need keep open our mind for new 
discoveries 
> > and 
> > > new ways of looking at things. In potential we are told we each 
> > have 
> > > unlimited capacities. But let us not presume from our 
programmed, 
> > > possibly arrogant, mundane mind that we are all equal in mental 
> and 
> > > spiritual functioning at this point in time.
> > > 
> > > Madame Blavatsky and her teachers maintained an age-old 
> tradition, 
> > > that of endeavouring to bring the inexpressible truths of life 
> into 
> > > the vernacular and mental culture of the day. We are told 
> > > the "unthinkable and unspeakable" cannot be written or spoken, 
> > > therefore a structure is erected by mental, and in this case, 
> > > spiritual giants in an attempt to ferry us to the "other 
shore." 
> It 
> > > is available for us to accept or reject; it is for us to choose 
> our 
> > > direction and method; it is for us to do the paddling; it is 
even 
> > for 
> > > us to build the boat. What they have done is provide what some 
> > > empiricists might consider a less than perfectly described 
> > schematic, 
> > > which however, with deep study and continued application might 
> > become 
> > > apparent to us, and which may indeed assist us in our attempts 
to 
> > > uncover the actual process and purpose of life in this 
dimension 
> of 
> > > existence.
> > > 
> > > If we cannot, or do not wish to recognise that Madame Blavatsky 
> and 
> > > her teachers possessed extraordinary and demonstrable fore-
> > knowledge, 
> > > knowledge and occult abilities, then that is our choice. If we 
> > choose 
> > > to focus on what we believe or perceive to be shortcomings, 
that 
> > too 
> > > we are free to do. Were they absolutely accurate and correct in 
> all 
> > > they said and did? Are there other traditions which may work 
for 
> > the 
> > > same "type" of western-minded person? Perhaps or perhaps not, 
the 
> > > empirical western mind's clamouring for dotted i's and crossed 
> t's 
> > > possibly blinding us from that which truly is. But to consider 
> some 
> > > of those who followed in their name to have equal credibility 
in 
> > this 
> > > field of expertise is a matter for considerable debate. To 
> consider 
> > > ourselves as having equal credibility, from our personal 
> > experience, 
> > > is perhaps just a little presumptuous?
> > > 
> > > Nigel C
> > >
> >
>