Fwd: [Mind and Brain] Re: [jcs-online] Re:On Information
Oct 23, 2007 04:27 PM
If you are interested in how consciousness works, please read my comments below and let me know if I've explained the ideas clearly enough. If not, please point out where it needs further clarification. Thank You , Lenny
From: Leon Maurer <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 6:55 pm
Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: [jcs-online] Re:On Information
Roger Frost wrote:
> On the contrary, the wide explanatory gap between objectivity and
> subjectivity which you and I guess Dave Chalmers and others refer to
> is strongly linked to the way you have awareness partitioned, which
> is to say, bound into the paradigm you are running. A rather simple
> analysis ought to inform you that there is a big need to work this
> stuff through from a different paradigmatic basis. And only then
> will the sense be seen. That is, we face a paradigmatic problem.
Yes, and as I see it, the problem is the current scientific paradigm
that starts out with the basic assumption that matter is primary, and is the
root cause of everything -- including consciousness.
> Prying our grasping fingers off the security seemingly provided by
> the "objectivity and subjectivity", which is sort of like biting the
> bullet and leaving the Cartesian womb, the simple fact is that what
> we recognize in the old paradigm as "objectivity", in the new
> paradigm is just a (typically) highly repeatable form of
> subjectivity. So, once this fact is noted, the so-called explanatory
> gap disappears. We have subjective experience. Some of it is
> intensely repeatable and as a matter of expediency and convenience we
> somehow learned to label and categorize the highly repeating stuff as
> "objective experience". It's "good enough" and obviously effective
> for most "everyday living" -- particularly back in the day when the
> ice caps and atmosphere were thicker.
> But when it comes to really honing in on the details in order to
> actually make needed adjustments to the paradigm, the
> misunderstanding needs to be revealed and the more general (and more
> correct) definition must be taken into account.
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by the "explanatory gap between
subjectivity and objectivity" -- possibly by assuming that "objectivity"
referred to the experience itself. Actually I was referring to the objective
(i.e., physical) world that is the subject of the experience. The word
"subjectivity" referred simply to the awareness of the experience. The
explanatory gap is the so far unexplained origin or source of the singular
quality of awareness, as well as the origin of the multiple quantities of
matter. Neither of which can be proven to be an epiphenomena of the other.
Therefore, whatever a new paradigm of science is to explain would have to be
based on the assumption that the noumena or root of both subjectivity and
objectivity could be, fundamentally, independent aspects of the absolute
eternal SPACE (whatever IT is) underlying the entire space-time continuum. My
logical assumption, then, as the basis of such a new paradigm, is that this
primal SPACE has to be the root of the ubiquitous ZPE fields (in the Planck
vacuum) that generates, empowers and maintains the different quantum particle-
waves -- as well as also being the source of individual nonlocal consciousness
(awareness, will, etc.) -- which requires a zero-point static reference so as
to distinguish the relative and subtle differences between individual sensory
frequency-volume experiences -- such as shades and tints of color, musical
tones, timbres , etc.. And also must be the origin of the subtly directed and
controlled intent that releases the force of will from the surrounding spin
momentum source of ZPE to carry out an appropriate responsive physical action
guided by the experience. For example the subtle and precise movement of the
body with exact reference to particular points (which may be in motion) in the
3D visual space. This perfect coordination between internal mind-memory and
external physical fields, could only be accomplished if all information of
consciousness were carried as modulated wave interference patterns on the
surfaces of spherical coenergetic electromagnetic fields that are coadunate
with each other.
>> All that the "stream of informations" can be, apparently, is the
>> of the conscious experience at each sensory receptor or mental image
>> perceiver -- but not the actual experience itself.
> Let's say we've got a simple system that is built up on the formation
> of transitory molecular structures, let's say, chains of water
> molecules formed at every cellular respiration sites. And lets say
> these chains can be formed to torque is one direction or another, or
> to promote formation of a nearby sol or gel. And, let's say with one
> torque, that (typically) induces a flight action whereas another
> torque induces the fight expression.
> Then construct a similar system that's a bit offset, lagging but
> geared to the primary molecular torques, and perhaps another and
> It's one of the secondary levels that send the shorthand signal
> pointing toward what we like to think about as "objective". What
> we are really talking about is recognizing and labelling a highly
> repeating experience. We sort of understand it. Don't put energy into
> watching it. It doesn't have to be watched as carefully as [..]. It
> can be tuned into or dispatched to something akin to the autonomous
> So then, to return to your proposal, in an adjusted paradigmatic
> system, are you suggesting the molecular torques are not experience?
Much too complicated a system... And the assumption that torques alone could be
"experiences" is unwarranted, since there has to be subjectively aware detector
of those torques to experience the subtle differences in their qualia. I think
that in my proposed paradigm, the idea that the experience is caused by the
differing frequency modulated image information, carried as wave interference
patterns on the surfaces of the coenergetic electrodynamic brain-mind and memory
fields that are resonant through the ZPE fields and detected as varying wave
front pressures, so to speak, by the zero point of absolute primal SPACE at the
causal center of the ZPE fields -- is far more likely and considerably more
parsimonious than the assumption that water molecules are the sole medium of the
information of consciousness and that their molecular torque is the actual
experience itself or even its cause.
If that were so, then such a paradigm would still have to explain how the
objective physical phenomena of torque turns into the subjective perception that
initiates the equally subjective intent to flee or fight. In the case of the
electrodynamic paradigm, there is still no identity between the encoded
information of consciousness (whether efferent in the case of the force of will
or afferent in the case of awareness) and the experience of awareness or qualia.
In any event, we still have to differentiate between the experience of
perception, and the experience of intentional action -- although they both have
the same basis of information processing and transmission.
>> As I see it, the only "material form" that such encoded information
>> of consciousness could have, would be some sort of modulated
>> energy or
>> wave interference pattern carried by an electrodynamic field, somehow
>> linked to both the brain's neurology and to each of the myriad points
>> of sensory perception throughout the body.
>> Reason tells me that the neural processed EM fields that carry the
>> sensory information could very well be coenergetically
>> (resonantly) linked to
>> the ubiquitous ZPE fields in the Planck vacuum. If such would be
>> the case,
>> non local preceptive consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia,
>> etc.) could
>> be the inherent subjective nature of the underlying *primal*
>> spatial (or
>> "hyperspatial" as per string theory) cause of the ZPE fields. This
>> reasonable -- since the storage of information that Hawkings admits
>> is retained in a Black hole could be carried by that near infinite
>> ZPE in the
>> "Singularity" at its center. Since the laws of energy are consistent
>> throughout the universe, why would there be any difference between
>> ZPE fields in the Planck "vacuum" (i.e., the empty SPACE
>> empowering the
>> quantum particles) and the ZPE fields in the centers of black
>> holes -- or,
>> for that matter, the center of the Cosmic "Singularity" postulated by
>> Einstein in General Relativity? Also, why would there be any
>> difference in
>> the material-energy nature of the encoded informationin a black
>> hole and
>> the encoded information causing conscious perception or
>> intentional action?
> Whether we can get by with trying to understand or express things
> only in terms of electromagnetic fields, I think, is highly
> questionable. The way I see it, while such an expression might
> develop, even after it does the transmission into action and
> interpersonal communication is still (always) going to filter
> through and involve the hydrogen-bonded, phase transitory matrix
> mechanics in the water/gel-sol layers at the atomic/molecular level
> of organization. And, I suspect for a very long time how all of
> these tactile and kinesthetic lessons will first be learned/taught
> is by fiddling around with the sort of imagery I've used to develop
> this particular perspective and set of expressions.
Nevertheless, no matter what chemical, electrical, mechanical, or other physical
process intervenes between the sensory input and the conscious (or subconscious)
experience -- all of it, being a transfer of information encoded as frequency
modulated wave patterns, must resolve down to fundamental coenergetic (inductive
resonance) interactions between analogous electrodynamic fields.
In fact, there can be no process, on any level -- from each sub quantum ZPE
field through the quantum, atomic, molecular, cellular, organic, inorganic,
stellar, galactic fields -- that isn't *electrodynamic* in fundamental nature.
Thus, from a physics POV, Maxwell-Ampere-Faraday's equations govern ALL physical
phenomena -- including the processing, storage, transformation and transmission
of ALL information down to its ultimate retention in the surrounding abstract
motion (spin momentum) of the ubiquitous zero-point of individual (and cosmic)
consciousness or unconditioned primal SPACE itself. Obviously, the infinite
zero- point spin moments of empty SPACE alone, as the cause of all manifest
phenomenal matter-energy, is fundamentally electrodynamic in nature... And thus,
capable of carrying infinite holographically encoded information. This
ubiquitousness of such spin-energetic information, would also be the basis of
the essential holographic nature of the entire universe and everything in it.
Contrastingly, the empty zero-point of consciousness being subjectively
sensitive to infinite vibrational frequencies, would be capable of experiencing
all that information. Thus accounting for the human ability, meditatively or
drug induced, to experience altered states of consciousness up to experiencing
the highest level of cosmic information at the primal beginning of this cycle of
phenomenal universal existence. This is equivalent to the Samadhi or
enlightenment state of yogic meditation.
Although, I would say that, in our normal state of consciousness, there is a
distinct separation of retention between universal experiential knowledge
(wisdom) and transient individual or personal experience or knowledge -- that
are contradictory. Unfortunately, very little of the higher universal knowledge
is available to our lower order physical (personal mind, memory) field of
consciousness... Although they may be partially available through various
altered states, or entirely, as explained above.
All of that method of acquisition, storage and transmission of sensory or memory
information can be externally observed, analogously, in the ubiquitous working
of all electronic audiovisual media recording, transmission and receiving
systems, computer- internet-CD-DVD systems, cell phone network systems,
satellite communication systems, etc. -- up to the macrocosmic storage and
transformation and transmission of information in and from every galactic
center's black hole, supernovas and star systems, out the furthest quasar.
And, it can also be observed introspectively by mentally tracing the visual and
audio systems' optical or mechanical, electrochemical, and radiant EM field
path, through the body's neurological, physiological and biological systems, and
noting the transformational processing of their information along the way.
Incidentally, this can easily be done by anyone (after long practice) by means
of Buddha's vipassana meditation and Patanjali's rajah yoga, or by some more
intuitive people, through graphically imaginative reasoning. We can also, by
such means, similarly observe the path of efferent energy, beginning with the
intent or will directed toward a specific motor response to a point of sensory
perception -- such as motion of a finger to scratch an itch, or the placement
of the point of a brush on a particular point in a painted image on a canvas
that is also simultaneously pictured in the mind. This can only be achieved
through coenergetic interaction between holographically receptive
electromagnetic information fields existing at all levels of physical reality
down to the ether or ZPE fields surrounding every zero-point of consciousness.
This "ether" being, incidentally, not only the source of sidereal light but also
the medium of its transmission, as Einstein originally surmised, later denied,
and eventually reaccepted. It's also obvious that analogs of light at different
orders of frequency energy exist on each fractal level or state of consciousness
corresponding to the initial cosmogenetic fields of my ABC model. What we
actually experience is higher order light on the mental field level.
Therefore, since everything in the universe stems from the timeless and
dimensionless "singularity" of primal SPACE that is located everywhere, we must
conclude that ALL "information" is encoded, stored, transformed and transmitted
through electrodynamic processes... Light, and other electromagnetic radiation
being its "carriers."
And, further, since all cosmic as well as individual constructive and
experiential information must be stored in the fundamental infinite spin
momentum of every zero-point "singularity" -- no matter where located -- the
universe is a gigantic hologram... And, all objective information processing,
storage and transmission, that is ultimately experienced subjectively, rests on
holographic or universal principles much like those postulated by Pribram, Bohm,
Pauli, Schrödinger, among others.
I would think, then, that while the "ordered water" could constitute one or more
stages along the chain of information processing within the wet-ware of the
brain -- like the neurotransmitters between the synapses, the information they
(it) transmit(s) is still governed by their (its) fundamental electrodynamic
Therefore, the only way I can see how the information of consciousness could be
directly detected by each center of perceptive awareness, would be if such
information is encoded in the wave interference patterns carried by the brain's
neuromagnetic field and, ultimately, resonantly transmitted (to the zero-point
of perception) through the higher frequency orders of ZPE fields in the Planck
space. This would also apply, in reverse, to the intentionally projected
will-energy information determining kinetic motional and emotional responses to
sensory or mental images -- as well as, in the case of binocular vision, to the
autonomic projection and reflection of coherent ZPE energy necessary to
holographically reconstruct the wave interference patterns and detect the moving
color 3D visual image matrix carried by the volatile mind field. I can't
imagine any other way for such a relatively instantaneously changing subjective
experience to occur in time.
>> All that, if true, would make experiential consciousness a
>> property of primal SPACE itself... And, wouldn't that serve as the
>> basis of the new "psycho-physical paradigm of science" suggested by
>> Chalmers to solve the "hard problems"?
> Er, does this mean retaining the old paradigm perspective on
> subjective and objective?
Yes, if by the "old paradigm perspective" you mean the ancient wisdom and
knowledge that considered consciousness or spirit, and substance (or "light
matter-energy" as we now know) -- as two fundamental and distinct subjective and
objective aspects of the primal source of everything and everyone. Of course,
considering that we also now know there is at least double the amount of "dark
matter- energy" (and, consequently, excess attractive and repulsive gravity) --
we can consider all of that as "God" if we like -- so long as we don't separate
its consciousness from its body or bodies, so to speak.... With such
consciousness (i.e., awareness, will, qualia, etc.) phenomenally latent in all
things other than sentient beings -- where it becomes experientially functional.
Thus, a form of pantheism, such as Buddha taught, would seem far more logical
than any other "separate personal creational" theistic beliefs based on literal
scriptural interpretations or misinterpreted epiphanic experiences or
>> I hope these questions and possibilities might offer sufficient
>> food for
>> thought to help us consensually arrive at a consistent theory of
>> consciousness,memory, mind and brain that could serve all
>> scientific disciplines.
>> Leon Maurer
> It would be nice if it would or could but I think "serving all
> scientific disciplines" may get tricky since the requisite paradigm
> shift is not something all scientific disciplines embrace with open
> arms. It may take a year or two to work out the kinks.
All that's needed are a few more scientific breakthroughs -- like some recent
observations and experiments more or less proving the existence of dark matter,
axions, tachions, B-E condensates, neutrino mass, cold fusion, ZPE fields, etc.
-- which, judging by the constantly accelerating discoveries in science,
shouldn't take much longer before the fundamental fractal involved
electrodynamic field nature of everything in the cosmos, including holographic
information, is irrefutably proven (and the disclosers-discoverers win a Nobel
prize in physics;-) ... Whereupon, all else concerning consciousness and the
mechanisms of its sensory and memory information processing, storage,
transmission, detection and experiencing, will soon after become fully
At that time, since such a condition of fundamental SPACE indicates the possibly
relative eternality of all information -- the truths of the ancient Eastern and
Hermetic philosophies, such as karma and reincarnation, might also be
realized... Which could radically change and realign the mind set of the world's
population, their religions, and their motivations.
Be interesting to see how that might work out -- hopefully for the betterment of
the conditions of mankind.
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