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Re: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnatio

Sep 26, 2007 01:33 PM
by Scribe

Excuse me, I'm sorry if I offended anyone here. I was not aware 'ideologue' was politically incorrect. I am not a 'righty', I am an independent so I can critizice both sides; neither did I vote for Bush nor do I approve of his policies. But I do not make ad hominems at his expense because we don't have to: we can vote them out of office in four years. The U.S. cannot always be right, nor can it always please everyone. But it *is* self-correcting and that is one of its big virtues, imho.

But thinking about politics and religion, you're thinking philosophy and ultimately theosophy. Both HPB and AAB came down strongly against communism and socialism and fascism and nazism. As I understand it, Alice Bailey dropped her socialist ties after she joined HPB.

We all have studied several other religions whether through HPB's comments via Theosophy or on their own. We almost cringe when someone we meet tells us what they know about religion, it is generally so bad, and we feel sorry for them, and want to enlighten them (if we feel it's worthwhile).

Same way with politics, only how many here know as much about politics as they do about religion? Maybe not so many. It has been said that a man's life is his religion. So is it his politics, I submit, and generally is in need of as much guidance.

No, I don't think theosophy is divorced from politics, I think it is at the crux of it. Evolution, expansion, freedom, choice. Involution, contraction, constriction, servitude. Guess which 'ism' is which. Is that not the choice of choices? Is that not the choice that everybody's called to make? And the choice we are discussing in this forum if we are discussing Theosophy?

We have discussions about religion and theosophy down pat in this forum. They can get pretty intellectual and ethereal and hypothetical and most of the time we're talking about and referring to ages past so far distant and personages no one has met... That seems pretty easy at that distance when you compare talking to someone about today's politics. But the theosophical, philosophical link is there to politics and that's what people need to know so they can make the right decision at the ballot box, don't you think?


----- Original Message ----- From: "kolad beth" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnatio

__________________________I think it best to refrain from mentioning partisan politics as did 'scribe'. we all have our own opinion and things can easily be misinterpreted in these election times. this is no place for 'right/left' 'republican/democrat' favoritism. remember G. Bush had to have a little black box on his shoulder for the presidential debates!______> To:> From:> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:24:17 +0200> Subject: Re: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnatio>> A theosophist would share his opinion, that each people and nation has the> human right to develop its own svabhava and that each people and nation has> the human right to defend itsself against foreign rule.> He/she/it would further ask him what he has to say about information like> this:>> Frank> ----- Original Message -----> From: Scribe> To:> Cc: scribe> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:32 PM> Subject: Re: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnatio> All,> Today Iranian "president" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad comes to New York to speak at> Columbia University and the United Nations.> He has already been asked a list of insipid questions by an eyebrow-arched> "60 Minutes" reporter so he [thinks he] knows the level of intellect of the> U.S. He is most probably correct. He will appear at Columbia U. and do the> same.> He will be difficult to "debate" because he's an ideologue--like Chris> Wallace or Bill or Hillary Clinton--and won't answer any questions but will> instead dodge and spout talking points.> The difficulty here is that this *is* the time to talk, and talk to him. He> styles himself as a religious philosopher as all high-up Muslims do, and he> also thinks he is superior to everybody else, every other culture, because> of his religion.> *That* is just the subject upon which he needs to be informed. There is no> one else but a Theosophist able and capable to engage him--that is, his> views. [Can you see him sitting across the table from HPB...?! :)]> What questions would you would ask him if this were a serious sit-down and> not just a propaganda photo-op?> Best,> Scribe> ----- Original Message -----> From: adelasie> To:> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 4:55 PM> Subject: Re: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnatio> Ramadoss,> Agreed wholeheartedly. Each one of us knows someone who needs help.> If we help that person then there is one less person in need in our> world. We have no idea how that one simple act can resonate in the> mental and emotional stream of humanity in general. And, if we cannot> find anyone to help, maybe we need to help ourselves, find a way to> ceate peace in our own hearts, so that it can radiate to others and> eventually triumph over all.> Adelasie> On 22 Sep 2007 at 14:56, M K Ramadoss wrote:>> Organizations cannot get involved on serious issues that face the world>> everyday since much of it purely politics based. But individuals like you>> and me can. That is where Internet maillist like this come into play.>>>> The problem I see, when we look at the historical actions taken by>> theosophists in the past, leads many into confusion. Issues such as White>> Forces and Black Forces, good wars and bad wars, national karma etc seem>> to>> cover up the fundamental issue -- war -- which is the root cause of pain>> and>> suffering.>>>> In terms of priorities, I find many getting involved in attending to the>> pain and suffering -- which are the result of war. What is the priority>> that>> theosophists have to deal>> with. Are we going to be active in the back end -- helping those who>> are the willing or unwilling victims of war or do something in the>> front end, which is to just avoid war -- not encourage and support the>> war machine. We see heroic efforts made in treating wounded in>> battlefield and as well as those injured physically and mentally as a>> result of the war. These are the issues that we need to think over and>> decide for ourselves what we can do in our own little way.>>>> It is simple>> hippocracy, IMHO, to talk about "higher" things, meditate and look for>> spiritual growth while at the same time being totally disinterested in>> the suffering that is going on around the world and doing nothing>> about the root causes, even though on an individual level the actions>> may show only marginal immediate results.>>>>>> mkr>>>>>> On 9/20/07, Cass Silva> wrote:>>>>>> A good starting point with Karma is to ask what lesson is being learnt>>> by>>> this suffering. Democracy is the new colonialism. Will all this pain and>>> suffering cause an Iraki or an American soldier to reevaluate his>>> ideals.>>> Will it challenge their faith in their religion? What do we, the>>> armchair>>> philosophers learn from sitting back and watching the daily attrocities,>>> the>>> inhumanity to man. I admire those protestors who get out of their warm>>> beds>>> to voice their opposition to these actions. Is it enough to say I am>>> being a>>> good theosophist, I preach the gospel of sophia, from my ivory castle?>>> Where>>> are the dissenting voices of our belief system?>>>>>> As a society of free thinkers why hasn't Adyar or Pasadena shown its>>> disgust for current world events. We can offer sympathy even empathy,>>> but in>>> reality our lack of action and commitment to our fellow brothers and>>> sisters, lies on the comfortable couch of, it's not my karma. It seems>>> to me>>> that we are no better than the Roman Church which selectively becomes>>> mute>>> when its followers are massacring others or are being massacred.>>>>>> Cass>>>>>> Cass>>>>>> Scribe> wrote:>>> MK,>>>>>> Thank you for your questions, they look familiar. I have been asked>>> essentially the same questions and I have tried to respond with the>>> answers>>> below which you may judge:>>>>>> Best Regards,>>> Scribe>>>>>> MKR: "The bottom line is - war is causing a lot of pain and suffering to>>> a>>>>>> very>>> large number of people.>>>>>> "How does one view the above from a Karmic point of view:>>>>>> "Is all the suffering due to repayment of Karmic Debts by those who are>>> facing pain & suffering?">>>>>> ME: Except for accidents, yes.>>>>>> MKR: "What are the Karmic consequences for those responsible for the>>> destruction>>> and pain? Or are they just acting as the agents of Lords of Karma so>>> that>>> they do not have to face any consequences?">>>>>> ME: Karma is mitigated when one is involved because their country is at>>> war.>>> They should not incur more than they should unless they go off on their>>> own>>> and do bad things to others.>>>>>> MKR: "Since countries are involved, what are the national karmic>>> consequences? Do>>> we - you and I going to pay for the national karma?">>>>>> ME: This is partially answered above. There is national karma and we are>>> part of that, Again, unless we do something bad from a personal point we>>> will be in the general national karma situation.>>>>>> MKR: "For some of us who believe in Karma, what are our responsibilities>>> and>>> what>>> we can do to minimize the pain and suffering?">>>>>> ME: To me, at this point in my understanding of Theosophical teachings>>> and>>>>>> high philosophy, that is the quintessential question for all of us. My>>> first>>> duty is to my family, and that means not to do anything rash that will>>> come>>> back and harm them physically or financially if I were to be arrested in>>> a>>>>>> protest, etc. I feel I can do the most good by being a good example in>>> person in my actions at home and outside my home by my cordial treatment>>> of>>> others including Muslims. My livelihood is modest but beneficial to>>> mankind,>>> I do no harm. I am blessed with a good mind and I try to interject>>> healing>>>>>> thoughts and Theosophical comments in my everyday discourse and in>>> particular in my forums and emails on the internet. Since the internet>>> came>>> out I have dedicated a web site to Theosophical teachings and other good>>> works. My Mars is conjunct Uranus in Gemini and my Mercury is on my>>> Medium>>>>>> Coeli--so I must write, it's in my genes. :)>>>>>> MKR: "Etc. Etc.>>>>>> Any thoughts?>>>>>> Mkr">>>>>> ----- Original Message ----->>> From: "M K Ramadoss">>>> To:>; <>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:48 PM>>> Subject: Theos-World Karma & Reincarnation>>>>>> We are exposed to the principles of Karma and Reincarnation and from>>> time>>> to>>> time we think about it when we act or react in any situation we are>>> faced>>> with.>>>>>> The world is watching the war that is going on in the Afghanistan and>>> Iraq.>>> Thanks for the modern technology; we are able to see live pictures of>>> what>>> goes on in a war. In the past, we were able to read eyewitness accounts>>> of>>> the action and some still pictures. For any sensitive person who sees>>> the>>> live pictures on TV will be very much pained to see what is happening>>> unless>>> one is insensitive to all the horror.>>>>>> From a factual/statistical point of view:>>>>>> 1. Numerous buildings - residences and commercial are destroyed by>>> bombs and firefight.>>> 2. Many young men and women have lost their lives causing a lot of>>> suffering to their kith and kin and the results are going to last a very>>> long time.>>> 3. Many young men and women have been seriously wounded - losing their>>> limbs and disabling head injuries. Lifelong suffering will be faced by>>> them.>>> Again causing suffering to kith and kin.>>> 4. Several million have been displaced and are refugees from their own>>> countries. Most with no jobs and homeless living on government handouts.>>> 5. Several thousands have been killed, maimed.>>> 6. Countries infrastructure destroyed.>>>>>> The bottom line is - war is causing a lot of pain and suffering to a>>> very>>> large number of people.>>>>>> How does one view the above from a Karmic point of view.>>>>>> Is all the suffering due to repayment of Karmic Debts by those who are>>> facing pain & suffering?>>>>>> What are the Karmic consequences for those responsible for the>>> destruction>>> and pain? Or are they just acting as the agents of Lords of Karma so>>> that>>> they do not have to face any consequences?>>>>>> Since countries are involved, what are the national karmic consequences?>>> Do>>> we - you and I going to pay for the national karma?>>>>>> For some of us who believe in Karma, what are our responsibilities and>>> what>>> we can do to minimize the pain and suffering?>>>>>> Etc. Etc.>>>>>> Any thoughts?>>>>>> Mkr>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>>> --------------------------------->>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who>>> knows.>>> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>

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