Theos-World Re: Should an "ideal" Theosophical Society study & "promote" these books?
Jul 22, 2007 09:23 PM
Once again I hope I may interject into this idscussion.
Thank you so much again for the ongoing dialogue with matters of such
controversy. In the past few years, the devotees of Bishop
Leadbeater, of which I recognise you are not, have mostly refused to
discuss these matters other than to accuse Dr Tillett and others of
spreading lies. When some of us ask which of their statements are
inaccurate they refuse even to respond. This to me is highly
disrespectful and disingenuous but does tend to expose the dangers of
the fearful, blind, unthinking, devotional mindset that is of such
danger to authentic Theosophy. Its proponents will probably think
that failure to respond is acceptable and mimics the behaviour of
Bishop Leadbeater which I will address in this post.
I greatly respect the process you have undertaken, looking fairly at
all the evidence, leaving emotional predisposition and prejudice out
of the equation. I especially appreciate your endeavours to see these
matters from another rationale altogether. For me, this is the
quintessence of the Theosophical mindset where, if need be, we can
respectfully agree to disagree once this process is concluded to our
As an academic, particularly in the sciences you well realise that
science is often not always about indisputable proof, rather it is
more concerned with the preponderance of evidence leading to rational
deductions from which inferences can be drawn and hypotheses and
With this in mind, I refer you to the following post for general
discussion and would appreciate your perspective.
I understand the rationale behind Bishop Leadbeater not wishing to
involve himself in distasteful circumstances, particularly where he
would not wish to be seen to be defending himself. His attitude to
bear his cross in silence is admirable in most circumstances,
although this is not always easily understood and is somewhat
unfashionable in these modern times. As a youngster I was taught that
bearing the cross graciously and silently was the ideal, unless it be
at the expense of an innocent other.
In point 4 of this posting, Bishop Leadbeater permitted a supporter
to undergo significant embarrassment and financial cost. Given the
Victorian mindset of the period this was not an honourable or
Moreover, through failing to respond to police requests for
interviews, whereby he could have satisfactorily resolved the matters
and removed the suspicion of disgrace and dishonour, he chose not to
so do, thereby condemning the innocent boys in his care to being
suspected of complicit involvement. As a priest from Victorian era
Britain he would have been well aware of these subtleties and nuances
and their implications. This could be seen as transforming the
situation from one of simple lack of judgement or misguided
selflessness to something more outrageous and can fairly be
considered highly suspect.
Point 3 in this posting refers to the infamous cipher letter. Whether
authentic or not, Bishop Leadbeater had a bounden duty to respond for
the sake of the child. For a letter to be written in such an overtly
familiar manner to a boy implies a mutually close and intimate
relationship. Irrespective of his innocence or guilt, for reasons
mentioned above he should not have allowed the boy to be implicated
in this manner by remaining silent. As a putative occult "teacher" he
also had a bounden duty to protect his naïve charges from scurrilous
attack. To protect a brother's good name is a standing tradition in
occultism. To permit a shadow of doubt to hang over another innocent
boy is once again incomprehensible until, through weight of
accumulating evidence, we consider the possibility of something more
The same applies to point 2 where Bishop Leadbeater "did not
challenge the transcript or its contents." Irrespective of whether
this form of "advice", whether verbal and/or practical (!), might be
acceptable in some cultures today it was abhorrent to the Victorian
mindset of the period.
It is simply beyond belief or conjecture that he would not have been
aware of this and its profound and far-reaching ramifications for
reasons mentioned above.
Occult training cannot be used as a rationale for any of the above,
however convoluted or diverse. It was an abomination, and should have
been dealt with as such. To my mind he should never have been
permitted to fraternise with boys again unless under strict
supervision. Unfortunately this did not occur.
How do you perceive this?
Thank you again.
--- In email@example.com, "Pablo Sender" <pasender@...>
> Cass wrote:
> > I don't believe it. Do you honestly accept that Leadbeater was
> framed by envious parents? Can you answer why the children were in
> his care in the first place?
> I sincerely believe it.
> The children were in his care because he was training them, but
> to those who had the potentiality to become a chela. Many children
> were offered to him by the parent themselves and, after looking at
> their auras, he decided whether they were fitted or not. That was
> > When has masturbation resulted in a less frequent occurence.
> What is he saying, the more you do the deed, the less you will feel
> the need to do it? Are you telling me that a ten year old boy is
> sexually awakened, and even if that was the case, is Leadbeather
> suggesting that all parents should advise their children in this
> He said clearly that the advise was given only to certain children,
> in special cases, and was not meant to be generalized, and the
> was to reduce the frequency in time, nor to indulge in the habit.
> let me tell you, I'd not hesitate in telling a boy to masturbate
> instead of going to a prostitute. That's for sure. When teenager, I
> was working in the Sexology Society in my city, giving classes to
> other teenagers (we were trained to do that by professionals) and I
> had of course, many friends. I could see how the sexual thoughts
> become an obsession. Your thoughts attract elementals. If you are
> being trained to prepare to become a pupil, and your sexuality have
> strong influence, especially when teenager when you don't know how
> manage it, the constant thoughts would be worst that the physical
> of relieving a physical and natural pressure. An adult may have a
> healthy sexual life, but a teenager cannot, and how is he supposed
> deal with it? Why an adult may have sexual relationships and a
> teenager cannot masturbate? Some adults have sexual relationships
> everyday. What would you say of a teenager that masturbates?
> everyday? Nevertheless, my advise to a teenager in that respect
> say to do it as less as possible. That was also Leadbeater advice.
> > To be quite honest I would not be surprised if CWL hated women.
> CWL had also women as his pupils, women who defended him when the
> accusations and he was devoted to Annie Besant, so there is no
> evidence of his hating women.
> > Why didn't CWL respect the culture of modesty within the Indian
> community, I fail to see how a piece of cloth is unhealthy.
> The piece of cloth is unhealthy because they don't clean his sexual
> organs. And he was training to the would-be vehicle to the World
> I see logic in these things, when correctly presented. Before going
> to Adyar, I had read about it in a much distorted way, that I could
> not accept. But then, when I saw the other side of the coin, I saw
> as possible.
> In the first letter of Master KH to Leadbeater, he states the
> conditions to become a Chela:
> "To accept any man as a chela does not depend on my personal will.
> can only be the result of one's personal merit and exertions in
> direction. Force any one of the "Masters" you may happen to choose;
> do good works in his name and for the love of mankind; be pure and
> resolute in the path of righteousness [as laid out in our rules];
> honest and unselfish; forget your Self but to remember the good of
> other people - and you will have forced that "Master" to accept
> And he was accepted, as said in other letter. But then the Mahatma
> "There is also the collective karma of the caste you belong to - to
> be considered. It is undeniable that the cause you have at heart is
> now suffering owing to the dark intrigues, the base conspiracy of
> Christian clergy and missionaries against the Society. They will
> before nothing to ruin the reputation of the Founders. Are you
> willing to atone for their sins?"
> Is it not interesting to see that one of the main problems the
> catholic Priest are facing is the accusations of abusing children?
> seems that was a relatively spread practices that in coming to
> only now. Was that the collective karma mentioned by the Mahatma?
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