Re: Theos-World Re: CW Leadbeater website
Feb 23, 2007 06:34 PM
Nigel, for me the most difficult thing about sifting about for Truth is to remain detached from my own brain! I am easily led, that is why I find so many writings of Leadbeater appealing, especially his "At The Feet of The Master." Could it be that Leadbeater was a chela? And could that be why his writings are so diverse and almost seem to have been brought about with alter-personalities? I understand that chelaship is truly difficult and that the worst that is in us is often brought out for the world to examine. I think the reason that is so is that people who are "spiritual" often do not want to see their own sins....and therefore commit them for the world to view?
Well, again, I don't know. The reason I joined the Adyar Society is because they had a picture hanging in the hall of a woman that looked very much like my grandmother. When I read the caption I discovered that her name was Helena Petrovna Blavatsky! I originally visited the Quest Book Shop in search of more new age books. The clerk there asked me if I had ever visited Headquarters building and suggested I visit the library. Her very timely suggestion was well taken, because I had been spending a large sum on books, believe me. So after seeing the picture of Helena, I entered the library and the rest is history in the making in my life.
So, in my search for truth, I probably do what our forum mate Daniel does. I read and think for myself. And I hugely appreciate this forum because of the many different points of view on so many topics. And I have learned so much more here that I ever did sitting in the lectures and in my study groups. And may I say now, I hope that our friend Carlos is alive and well. I miss his knowledgeable contributions.
Sent: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: CW Leadbeater website
Thank you too for your response, based obviously in experience and
not mere speculation. I likewise agree with much of what you write.
My statements concerning Bishop Leadbeater's lies and deceit however
are not referring to his supposedly psychic pronouncements although
many of these were demonstrably wild and fanciful as you allude. As
we know, psychic visions are notoriously unreliable whose
interpretation is largely subject to the worldview and mindset of the
Bishop Leadbeater's worldview was very much Victorian English where
position and status were synonymous with power and prestige and
therefore prized possessions, hence the repeated lies and deceptions
as to his background and upbringing.
His mindset was also of a kind, one which valued authority,
superiority, control, obedience and compliance. These qualities of
temperament usually have their roots in fear which produces a fertile
ground for blind belief and devotional following with commensurate
reliance on external power and authority, more particularly in his
case of the religious kind.
An interesting irony is that Dr Annie Besant, a previously staunch
supporter of free thinking also eventually succumbed to this
insidiously authoritarian mindset, where power and not truth
sometimes became the priority.
>From my current perspective, this style of mindset is distinctly
different and indeed anathema to that implicit and explicit in the
Theosophy of Madame Blavatsky. As a single example, whilst she used
literally thousands of references throughout her works embracing a
vast vision of the ageless wisdom, Bishop Leadbeater used
comparatively few, relying mostly on his own perceived authority.
Whilst the occult concepts reintroduced by Madame Blavatsky were
attempting to massively expand our minds out of their traditionally
simplistic and compliant state, Bishop Leadbeater effectively
misrepresented these and moreover produced a reduced version, much of
which at the level of romantic, religious simplicity.
Whilst Madame Blavatsky railed against the disempowering activities
of the Christian religious institutions, Bishop Leadbeater helped
form his own pseudo theosophical Christian church complete with male
hierarchy and superiority.
The crucial questions to me are whether much of the worldview and
mindset of Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant can be relied upon to
state the truth or indeed to elicit freedom which might lead to truth
and, if not, should they be supported and promoted?
According to some in this forum, this is not an issue. According to
them, they are dead, it all happened a long time ago, so it doesn't
Yes they are dead and long gone however most of their writings are
not and are not only currently available and published but are highly
recommended by many in the Adyar Society.
Marie, I particularly appreciated your statement "I don't know" when
referring to whether your membership condones the "Leadbeater and
My journey through this dilemma was long and arduous over a number of
years with many subtleties and nuances arising from lengthy
discussions with numerous committed members. In my experience, most
of the members of the Adyar Society were normal, everyday people with
inquiring minds and respectful attitudes. Those in positions of
responsibility however were often quite different.
The argument recently posted here that many people have arrived at
Theosophy through the theosophy of Bishop Leadbeater has not been my
experience in the Adyar Society.
Most people came seeking simple answers to the radically complex
propositions of life. Bishop Leadbeater offers these putative
representations through his aforementioned methodology.
As mentioned in a previous posting, during my time within the
organisation, of the approximately ten percent of Adyar Society
members who had any interest in theosophy only five percent of those
showed interest in Madame Blavatsky's work. Ninety five percent
remained satisfied with the works of Bishop Leadbeater and Dr Besant
and many would argue defensively in their favour and often act
politically when exposed to the innumerable contradictions and
deceptions. The argument for simplification became the mantra for
personal comfort and the genuine and ongoing search for truth mostly
became lost in the maelstrom.
Marie, my decision not to support the Adyar Society as a member at
the present time was not taken lightly as you might imagine. There
are many good and well-intentioned members, many of whom work
honourably, tirelessly and compassionately to "alleviate suffering".
Unfortunately the Freedom of Thought statement was interpreted by
most in positions of significant responsibility as liberty to
actively support and promote thoroughly discredited theosophical
writings and writers.
This I could no longer countenance
And herein perhaps lies our broader dilemma as a human race.
Too often we surrender our freedom and independence of thought to
leaders for such reasons as fear, insecurity, feelings of inferiority
and a programmed mindset of reliance on external power and authority
for our safety and security. However untruthful and deceptive these
leaders may be, nonetheless we so often mindlessly, powerlessly and
obediently defer to their authority.
Until we begin to truly think for ourselves and actively support and
encourage others so to do, our minds will remain the puppets of power
brokers who well understand the tendencies of human nature and whose
ethic is so often based in power, not wisdom.
As budding Theosophists, perhaps we have a greater responsibility
than most to support the ideal of Truth, in all its forms, in
whichever way we can, for the sake of all.
--- In email@example.com, MarieMAJ41@... wrote:
> Thank you Nigel. I want to tell you that I agree almost completely
with your assessment and reasoning. However, I cannot know whether or
not he lied deliberately, or misinterpreted his visions into the
astral world. It is entirely conceivable that being a fairly naive
and impressionable person, as I perceive people who become clergy to
be, Leadbeater had an entirely different world-view than most of us.
I say all this with tongue in cheek however, because most of what
Leadbeater has written about life on Mars and such is simply "poppy-
cock". And the past lives, LOL. But some of his books are even
> I do think that Leadbeater was a pedophile. But he may not have
known it. The Adyar Society is a little like Leadbeater [and his
cohort Annie Besant] in fact. Ambitious people are at the head of it,
and only ambitious people will ever be in charge They will do what
they must to stay in power and lead the sheeple. But that is not to
say that those same people have not done good for the spreading of
theosophy. I think they count on the fact that many, if not most,
people who join the Society will never find out about the various
controversies and the different splinter groups that have arisen.
When I joined the Adyar Society, it was because it was there, I had
not way of knowing that there were choices, and I was never informed
about any choices. So I became a Life-Member. So, am I through my
membership condoning the Leadbeater and Besant debacle? I don't
know. And at this point, since Blavatsky, Judge, Olcott, Leadbeater
and Besant have gone to their reward, I don't care. I will just have
to make do with the literature and my own intuitions.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nhcareyta@...
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Sent: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 7:40 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: CW Leadbeater website
> Dear Marie
> Thank you for alerting us to this website. It is a worthwhile
> contribution to an interesting debate.
> On this site, Pedro takes what appears to be at first glance a
> reasoned approach to some of the issues surrounding Bishop
> Leadbeater. For the uninformed or faithful some of the ideas he
> presents sound entirely reasonable and supportable by any fair
> However for me, Pedro's work is an extraordinary minimisation of
> real issues.
> As has been mentioned so many times in this forum, Bishop
> produced utterly contradictory accounts of occult teachings from
> Madame Blavatsky and her occult teachers, despite claiming to be in
> direct contact with those very same teachers. He also lied and
> deceived people on numerous occasions as is well documented and
> Unfortunately and yet again it needs to be stated that this is in
> way suggesting that Madame Blavatsky and her teachers are in
> possession of absolute truth and that their students are, in
> blind devotees as Pedro and others seem concerned about. This is an
> age old diversionary tactic, used consciously or unconsciously, of
> subtly suggesting something where often no such thing exists.
> Furthermore and once again, it is not suggesting that Bishop
> Leadbeater was all bad and contributed nothing of any value. He was
> dedicated and hard worker for his version of theosophy, his Society
> and his church.
> However, Pedro either doesn't understand or doesn't want to
> understand the gravity of Bishop Leadbeater's many intellectual
> indiscretions and manifest incidents of breach of trust.
> It seems that matters of honour, integrity and truth are
> with respect to spiritual teachers and teachings despite the good
> Bishop's ardent professions to the contrary in most of his works.
> Kind regards
> --- In email@example.com, MarieMAJ41@ wrote:
> > Hello Friends, I received this from another forum from Pedro
> Oliveira, but thought u all might enjoy this.
> > Please find below the URL for a website dedicated to C. W.
> > http://www.cwlworld.info/index.html
> > With warm and fraternal regards to all,
> > Marie and Pedro Oliveira
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