Re: [Mind and Brain] Re:Explaining Experience in Nature
Feb 23, 2007 03:57 PM
In a message dated 2/11/07 5:57:05 PM, email@example.com writes:
> I usually stay away from topics like this (don't exclaim: you could've done
> that now as well) but I admire creativity and abhor illogical twists, so I
> ask my questions:
> (I leave some of your paragraphs, because it is too hard to quote only
I appreciate your interest... So, I'll attempt to answer all your questions
with the hope that you continue asking them. :-)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org
> To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 7:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Re:Explaining Experience in Nature
> *[Leon] You seem to have overlooked the fact that the (measurable)
> energetics of configuration space which causes it to expand -- must be empowered by a
> pre cosmic primal force or source of energy that is outside of the metric or
> configuration space-time you are talking about. *
> --JM: ...if you believe that it expands...(I don't)
If the pre cosmic ground space (which, while ever unknown to our finite
minds) must have contained in it all the energy of the entire universe... That
energy could only be in the form of abstract motion. Since such motion would have
to be nonlinear it could only be circular spin on an infinite number of axis
at infinite velocities around each absolute zero-point of that unknown ground
Thus, having infinite angular momentum on each axis of spin... And, since
each of those infinite zero-points could have no linear dimension, all of them
would have to be coadunate, or located all in one place.
That dimensionless place would be Einstein's "singularity" -- out of which
this universe, among potentially infinite other universes, emanates (i.e.,
explodes) outward, as a single zero-point ray, expelled in opposite directions,
That forms a triune circular field of expanding radius... Which, because of spin
on at least one other perpendicular axis, weaves, in a continuously repeated
spiral Mobius path, to complete the first iteration of fractally involved
triune fields, like two bubbles within a surrounding bubble. Each of which
spinning inner field continues to fractally involve to coninue the series of
descending spherical fields within fields within fields -- like Chinese bottles. See
the 2D cross sectional symbolical diagrams of these 3D universal fields at:
Therefore, it's not the absolute zero-point ground space that expands, but
the spinergy or G-force of those points that, when radiated into the fractally
involved coenergetic fields explained above, expands outwardly toward infinite
diameter -- as we observe in our lower order configuration or metric
space-time continuum. That expansion is continuously empowered by the negative
gravity or repulsive negative G-force fields that emanates out of the primal zero
point spinergy in opposite directions from our "light" positive G-force fields.
Thus accounting for the difference in chirality between the "light force"
matter-energy and the "dark force" matter -energy postulated in current quantum
> what 'pre-cosmic'? "zero" is not zero? otherwise I agree.
Thank you for your agreement. But, as explained above, that infinitely
homogeneous pre-cosmic ground space must have an "absolute zero" dimension. (At
least, from our metricized, quantized, or individualized points of view.) This
is no more counterintuitive than was (and still is) Einstein's theory of
relativity, or the perturbations in the sub quantum vacuum.
However, after the first triune fractal or monad field is formed, all
subsequent zero points at the adjoining poles and centers of each subsequent inner
fractal field must have a linear metric dimension, in accord with the
frequency-energy phase order of each fractally descending monadic field... The fourth
fractal iteration of which would be at the lowest order zero-point energy level
of our physical space-time continuum -- whose subsequent field involutional
nature would be analogous to the first three fractal energy levels or "Logos"
that completes the first seven fold cyclic order of cosmogenesis prior to the
Big Bang "Birth" of our physical universe.
Thus, out of the initial chaos or complexity of the spinergy at the absolute
zero-point of primal ground space radiates orderly progressions of fractally
involved spherical fields in simple octaval, decimal, and duodecimal series --
until, after the breaking of symmetry coupled with zero-point entanglement,
comes the complexity of this entire physical space-time continuum and all the
interconnected beings within it... Thus, completing the consummation of the
"marriage," so to speak, of the metaphysical with the physical, the spirit or
consciousness with matter, and the "creative" with the "receptive" (as seen in
Eastern philosophies). This is the true psychphysical new scientiic paradigm
that Chalmer's suggested was needed to solve the enigma of explaining the
experience of consciousness through its interrelationship with matter.
So, you are correct in seeing that on our physical level, the zero-point
energy source empowering every quantum particle would have to have a greater than
zero dimension. In fact, this physical zero-point and its spinergy, that is
located everywhere in the Planck space, is the first fundamental particle in
our metric space... Which -- having at its inner source the absolute zero point
of pre cosmic ground space in coadunation with each other -- would account
for quantum entanglement, as well as near infinite zero-point energy... As
theorized mathematically in quantum field and string theories, and confirmed by the
Aspect and Casimir experiments.
These, experiments, incidentally, could constitute a verification of string
physics (in spite of statements made in this forum that all experiments to
verify string theories have failed. In addition, the ABC fractally involved fie
lds are -- in the first order of their coenergetic (electrodynamic) descent --
the "Hyperspace" fields enfolded in the Planck vacuum and also surrounding all
matter in the universe predicted by string theorists. Their major problem
is that they have no idea of how to link these fields to the brain's EM fields
and to consciousness (awareness, will, etc.) -- since they have yet to tie
in the ability of all those essentially "electrical" fields to carry analog
information in the form of wave interference patterns that can be inductively
transformed from one fractal field to another -- i.e., from brain fields to mind
fields, to memory fields, and from them (after holographic reconstruction by a
coherent inner light) refleccted to the zero-point of perceptive
consciousness jat is inherently aware of that higher order (tachyonic) light.
> That source, or first cause, stemming from "absolute" or primal space itself
> is the zero-point I am referring to... Which, being a force without any
> measurement, must be pure abstract, nonlinear angular motion (momentum) or
> fundamental spin of "nothing," "sunyata," "void," "null space," etc. (i.e., having
> no physical or measurable substance).
> Space before space - as FIRST? how many others before that? Where did you
> take "angular"?? from?? What spins?
> 'sunyata' is good, I dunno what it is. Remember the joke of Odysseus to
> Polyphemos that his name was 'nobody'? when P was blinded and his brothers asked
> "who hurt you"? he answered: "Nobody". - Spinning, I presume, with an
> angular momentum of nothing.
Sure.;-) But, there is a categorical difference between unconditioned
nonlinear motional ground space, that is directionally dimensionless, and manifest
or conditioned linear phenomenal space that has directional dimensions.
Since the latter metric space is something... And, since, as Buddha said, "nothing
can come from nothing"... Then, it's logically obvious that the "first cause"
underlying our 3D space which is that dimensionless ground space (known in
the eastern thought as "Sunyata," or the "emptiness" that is also "fullness",
and in the Kabbala as, "Ein Soph") -- must be "something." (Even if appearing in
our mind to be nothing.) ... As I have, hopefully, clearly explained
In fact, there are multitudes of different "spaces," since each fractal
field is in a different space of its own -- with the first three fractal
iterations (that are, in themselves, dual) corresponding to the initial six hyperspace
fields (or enfolded "dimensions") postulated in string theories.
Therefore, unless we can imagine this universe magically appearing out of
nothing -- that primary "something" must be the noumena of phenomenal space as
well as every derivative form within it, along with its being the only possible
static center of nonlocal consciousness that must be the characteristic of the
ubiquitous absolute zero-point itself... Keeping in mind that the fundamental
quantum particles are nothing more than standing waves of configuration space
in motion, radiating in and out of the zero-point at their centers.
This was explained by Einstein right from the beginning of modern physics
(that is, if you can read between the lines and in the words and symbols of his
verbal and mathematical descriptions). All of which, to be properly
understood, must be geometrically and topologically envisioned in our imagination with
its fully transparent, multidimensional enfoldment and vibratory
differentiations. Of course, there's much more to it than that, but this shoudl be
enough, as starters, for those willing to concentrate and focus their mind on it.
eventually, such a one might be able to see exactly how the field dynamics
works in conunction with consciousness to turn holographic information into
Didn't Einstein say that "imagination is far more important than knowledge"?
I'm amazed at how blind most scientists are who can't visualize that
simplicity out of complexity he intuited... And later proved, by combining the
Maxwell and Lorentz-FitzGerald equations, among others, with his tensor analysis...
To gave us all the ammunition needed to awaken our own inner vision?
Unfortunately, it took many scientists nearly 30 years before they could fully
accept and acknowledge these truths (with most of them still unable to grasp its
geometry or dynamics intuitively). Is that why Feynman could say with a
straight face, "Anyone who says they understand quantum physics is either lying, or
crazy" and, 'I can't imagine how Einstein intuited E=mc^2 based on the level
of physical knowledge at that time"?
As for how many other spaces there are before the ground space that gave
birth to this universe... I'll leave that for the philosophers who would be still
pondering that question some quadrillions of years from now during the next
conscious life cycle of our universe. ;-)
However, I'm content to think that zero must equal infinity (0=∞). And that
since the spinergy can be infinitely expandable, it can also be infinitely
compressible ... Or, if that is too hard to take, infinitely divisible. :-)
So, in this philosophy, since then is now and now is forever, I'm sure that in
our highest order innermost zero point of self consciousness, we each already
know the whole truth. The only thing left then, if we want to know and apply
it out here in the physical world, is to find the way to go in there and take
it. Admittedly, for some that might be an instant leap of intuition, and for
others a long process of meditative practice under the guidance of a wise
guru --or a combination of both. But, there should be no doubt that it can be
done by any of us. (And, even those already conditioned by the false
materialistic assumptions of today's established science.:-)
> [LEON]: Therefore, that zero-point "nothingness" of infinite G- force
> (which is the source of gravity and all the fundamental forces) that has no
> measurement, is the "implicate order" theorized by Bohm and philosophized by
> --JM: Bohm and W. would be flattered. If that infinite G-force is in
> string theory, it is G-string.
> Ad vocem 'infinite' is identical to zero: no measures applicable. Eternity
> = now, not "very long time". Infinite has no 'big' or 'small' quale.
> Next par OK. then:
> [Leon]:Also, as this zero-point must be everywhere at the center and poles
> of all fractally involved fields,...
> --JM: very complicated, all the way to the Einstein Bose condensates. -
> I agree (much simpler) that some mental or ideational group you call
> 'consciousness' IS aspatial and atemporal. It just does work in that figment
> 'matter' with its tools (brain) in space and time. When it does not come to words,
> we seem to agree.
How else can we describe anything without words -- even if the words in the
English language has such a paucity of meaning as compared t the Hebrew,
Sanskrit, Egyptian or Chinese languages. To agree with the above it has to be that
consciousness is the ground of all being, and that it must be outside of all
space and time, and that the initial iterations of the fractally involved
fields before coming down to earth, so to speak, at the fourth iteration, and until
the breaking of symmetry -- are essentially analogous to the Bose-Einstein
> Incidentally, since my ABC fractally involved field theory predicts this,
> it could now be considered a valid scientific theory, and with its
> accompanying mathematics presented by an accredited physicist, subject to peer reviewed
> publication -- with a possible Nobel nomination in the offing... (Hint,
> hint, nudge, nudge, ;-)
> --JM: I did not elevate to the mental level to familiarize myself with
> your ABC - even before it got its math. Shame on me. I don't even think of the
> tiniest Nobel for myself - ever.
If you or anyone else could come up with the math and also devise an
experiment that proves the theory -- whoever did it would certainly be in line for the
Nobel... Since the discovery of such a new paradigm of science to explain
consciousness would be on a par with the discovery of relativity and quantum
physics... Although Einstein never got a Nobel for that. While some did who
confirmed those theories. So, who knows how the ball bounces? :-)
> [LEON]:...(...But none of that has anything to do with the zero-point of
> "Absolute" space having infinite spinergy or G-force that I am talking about. )
> The finite space you are talking about, is nothing more than an imaginary
> artifact of quantum physics that assumes the whole universe is of a material
> nature which begins with that finite point, and therefore, cannot deal with the
> reality of an underlying non dimensional causative primal space that has
> infinite rootless energy along with pure consciousness as its fundamental dual
> That's better. I woudl only discount the causative primal space and
> 'energy' (what I don't know what it is) and the "pure" something I don't see
> identified. Or better: se identified in any wat one needs it. Dual aspects I have,
> don't want to go into it now.
Well, all anyone can do is think about it... And maybe originate the ideas --
that I've tried to present in word pictures as best I can -- in their own
minds by pure intuition... Such as the way I imagined Einstein pondered on the
possibility of everything in the universe being one thing. And from that seed,
imagining all the possibilities. What more can be said or asked of anyone?
If they follow that lead, possibly with the help of my explanations, they'll
either get it or they won't. I can only hope many will, soon, and in the
course of it, maybe assist in changing the minds of everyone else into seeing
the connection of all with each other.... And get on with their own self
realization, so as to use that that knowledge to help others... Until, maybe, the
whole world learns how to help each other... Which might help to eventually end
this horrible and destructive path of material oriented selfishness we are now
forging blindly ahead on.
> Actually, ... (--JM: too complicated. basically I agree with the underlying
> criticism of QM etc.)
> Best wishes,
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