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Re: Re Leadbeater in Brazil

Feb 07, 2007 04:18 PM
by plcoles1


This will certainly be interesting discovery if it turns out to be 
correct, however it would only verify partially Leadbeater's claims 
as Dr Tillett has said.

The outrage is and continues to be for me the blatant protecting of 
Leadbeater from any truly objective scrutiny in its (Adyars) official 
publications.

Apologists are the only ones allowed any voice in Adyar publications, 
as I have never been shown any evidence to the contrary.
How can they claim any objectivity and credibility at all until this 
situation is rectified ?!

I just came across this title called
 "Unfulfilled prophecies and disappointed messiahs"
by Leon Festinger, Henry W. Riecken and Stanley Schachte

The opening chapter was relavent I thought :

"A MAN with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you
disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he
questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your
point.

We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a
strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some
investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of 
ingenious
defences with which people protect their convictions,
managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating
attacks.

But man's resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a
belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole
heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief,
that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose
that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable
evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? 

The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even 
more
convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. 
Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting
other people to his view."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Cheers

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Mark Jaqua <proto37@...> wrote:
>
> Re:  Leadbeater in Brazil
>   
>    I think with his phoney Brazil 
> auto-biography CWL was just warming up 
> for his "Lives of Alcyone," - more comic 
> book past-life biography.  As they say, 
> every dollar lie is based on 10 cents 
> of truth, and maybe the guy really was 
> in Brazil for the "10 cents" part.  
> "The Elder Brother" was one of the most 
> valuable theosophical books of the last 
> quarter of the century, and really was 
> the death-knell for taking CWL serious, 
> except for people who have something 
> wrong with them. ("Ingratitude is not one
> of our vices" writes one of the Teacher's
> in the MLs.  One might weigh this statement
> with ULT LA's refusal to even answer Tillet
> about archive research.)
>    
>    Of course there are quite a few who 
> get interested in CWL's adolescent fairy-tales 
> and psychic adventures, and later 
> graduate into Blavatsky theosophy.  
> Oliveira, I think, is also the main guy 
> at the Australian TS Campbell Research 
> Library, isn't he?  Although a CWL priest, 
> strangely one of the only people who ever 
> thanked me for sending them an archive 
> CD of Theosophical material (with plenty 
> of critical material on pseudo-theosophy.)
> Geoffrey Hodson also tried to do a face-
> saving CWL biography as Oliveira plans.
>   
>     MKR said that HPB was referred to 
> in a "Simpson's" TV episode, which I would 
> have liked to see.  In the short-lived 
> series "Young Indiana Jones", CWL, Besant 
> and Krisnamurti were featured some years 
> back, with Besant as the well-meaning fool, 
> and Leadbeater as the manipulating Svengali.
>   
>     About 15 years ago I tried to donate 
> to the local Toledo Library "The Elder 
> Brother" and also about a half dozen 
> Theosophical books, which didn't appear 
> in circulation.  I asked one of the assistant 
> directors what happened to the books, 
> which disturbed her.  The next time I went 
> to the library a security guard followed 
> me around.  'Also got a note from someone 
> saying that EB didn't get on the shelves 
> because it "was not well-written."  I 
> guess the guy meant that it shouldn't 
> have been written about at all! ha  Also 
> one of the old dessicated librarians 
> walked up to me, nodded, and turned 
> around and picked up imaginary lint 
> off the carpet, showing me his opinion 
> to my face I suppose.  Toledo used to 
> have an active theosophical group in 
> the first part of the century, and still 
> had a lot of theosophical books in stock, 
> including CWL's, which I used to check 
> references in "Theosophy vs. Neo-Theosophy." 
> Eventually they put a Purucker book and 
> Mundy one in circulation.
>   
>      On the other hand, a local university 
> library had a worn-out SD on the shelves, 
> so I sent a new one, and actually got a 
> note from one of the directors thanking 
> me.  Another local small town, the only 
> local one with a jewish community, was 
> also glad to have Judge's "Ocean."  
>   
>                 - jake j.
>   ----------------
>   >4. Leadbeater in Brazil
>     Posted by: "gregory@..." gregory@... 
>     Date: Sat Feb 3, 2007 9:03 pm ((PST))
>   >Readers may be interested in a posting on another site by Pedro 
> Oliveira, TS employee and Liberal Catholic bishop:
> ---------------
> >Dear Friends,
>   >For the past three years I have been collecting material for a 
short
> biography of C. W. Leadbeater. My intention is not to contradict 
> existing biographies about him but to present important aspects of 
his life and
> work based on documentary evidence.
>   >One of the many controversial aspects of his life is his claim 
that he
> went with his family to Brazil in 1858. Because no evidence was 
thought 
> to exist to substantiate such a claim it was branded a 'fraud' and 
a 
> 'lie'. Until now.
>   >In a memo in the Archives at Adyar, C. Jinarajadasa stated that 
CWL's
> family went to Brazil in 1858 and that his father, Charles 
Leadbeater,
> worked in the Bahia and San Francisco Railway. On the basis of the 
> above information, last year I requested that a TS member in 
Salvador, Bahia
> (north-east of Brazil), conduct research at the Historical Archive 
of
> Salvador. He later informed me that nothing had been found under 
that 
> name (Charles Leadbeater).
>   >I was therefore quite surprised, to say the least, the day before
> yesterday when I received a telephone call from Ricardo Lindemann,
> National President of the TS in Brazil, informing me that during 
the TS
> summer school held in Salvador last week he had visited the 
Historical
> Archive to do further research. Going through several heavy and 
thick
> leather-bound old books, he came across a ship manifesto of 
foreigners
> entering Brazil on 30th May 1858. The sixth name on the list reads
> "Charles Leadbeater". On the same line it is stated that he came 
with 
> his family. The Archive is now in the process of issuing official
> certification of the above information.
>   >Both the certificate and photographic reproduction of the 
relevant page
> will be posted on a website dedicated to CWL's life and work which 
is
> presently under construction.
>   >With best wishes and warm regards to all of you,
>   >Pedro Oliveira
> -------------------
> >Leadbeater's story about his alleged time in Brazil (circa 1858- 
circa
> 1862) is found in "Saved by a Ghost. A True Story of an Adventure in
> Brazil, Near Bahia, 1861-2" published in "The Theosophist" (1911),
> subsequently published as an off-print edited and annotated by
> Jinarajadasa (1911) with the title Saved by a Ghost. A True Record 
of
> Adventure in Brazil, Near Bahia, 1861-1862, of Charles Leadbeater
> (Senior), Charles Webster Leadbeater, and Gerald Leadbeater, and 
then
> included in a collection of Leadbeater's short stories, The Perfume 
of
> Egypt (1911). Presumably, if it was not "A True Record", Leadbeater 
had
> every opportunity correct it, or at least to prevent the second 
edition
> (1912) being published. The published account can be supplemented 
by 
> notes left by Jinarajadasa and A.J. Hamerster in the TS archives at 
Adyar.
> Jinarajadasa also undertook research in Brazil in an attempt to 
confirm
> the details, but did not report any success.
>   >The essential claims made by Leadbeater were that he and his 
family 
> were in Brazil between 1858-62: the story in "Saved by a Ghost" 
allegedly
> occurs in 1861-2, biographical notes made by A.J. Hamerster and 
> corrected by Leadbeater record the family being in Brazil from 
around 1858 to 
> 1862, and a "Memo for a Biography of C.W.L." written by 
Jinarajadasa on the
> basis of information given to him by However, no standard history 
of Brazil includes any reference to 
> uprisings in Brazil,
>   >Leadbeater claimed that he and his father were involved in a 
> "rebellion" led by a "General Martinez". Leadbeater's brother, 
Gerald, was murdered 
> by the rebels. Leadbeater's father joined the army in fighting the 
rebels,
> and Leadbeater (aged either 15 by his account or 8 according to his 
> birth certificate) went with his father and the army to capture 
Martinez.
> Leadbeater and his father were awarded decorations by the 
government 
> for his services to Brazil.
>   >Leadbeater states that the family went to Brazil in 1858 and 
returned 
> to London in 1862. Leadbeater claimed that his father was 
the "leading
> director" (in other sources, "chairman") of a railway company (which
> Leadbeater did not identify but which Jinarajadasa, from his 
research 
> in Brazil, claimed was The State of Bahia South Western Railway 
Company). 
> Leadbeater's father must moved from being a "book keeper" (1854 
> baptismal record of his son) to "railway clerk" (1861 census) 
to "leading 
> director" or "chairman" (for the adventures in Brazil) to "book-
keeper for a 
> railway company" (1862 death certificate).
>   >That Leadbeater and his family went to Brazil may or may not 
have been 
> a "fraud" or a "lie". If Pedro can provide evidence that they were 
in
> Brazil, this will indeed be interesting. He will then only have to 
deal
> with "fraud" or "lie" of Leadbeater's claims of what happened 
there  
> and, alas, the ongoing fraud or lie of his birth date.
>   >Dr Gregory Tillett
>   --------------------
>   
>  
> 
>  
> ---------------------------------
> Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from 
real people who know.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





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