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Aug 19, 2006 01:43 PM
by Gary Barnhart

Dear Carlos,
Apparently you take offense at my standing up for the freedoms of the confused Frank R. and Mr. Logos S-2000, the same as I do for any and all students of theosophy, even though I question the sincerity of Frank to the hilt.

Please do not pretend to know who I am or anything about me.  If you would like to know a little about me ask, email, call our mutual friend Jerome in Los Angeles, California.  You have even read articles by me which have been included in "The Aquarian Theosophist".

Everything you have written in your posting  "oceantheos and the fence" is a product of your own mind and has no basis in reality.  All of your assumptions are just that, assumptions.
And yes, I do find you rather controlling, something I would tell you to your face and I will gladly ask Jerome to give you my personal email address and telephone number so that you may discuss whatever you wish with me.  Please keep in mind that whenever I point a finger I also realize I have the remainder of my fingers pointing back at myself.

"Oceantheos" is simply an ID I put in this system as it asked for an ID and not my personal name.  Let me assure you I have never been on this site until about 4 or 5 weeks ago during which I began observing the conversation.  My Name is Gary B.  I have never hidden my name or identity, and in all of my postings I have
signed my name to the best of my recollection.  This is the first yahoo site I have every joined so I did what I could in following their directions.

Considering your ranting about me, I'm sorry to tell you that you will find yourself embarrassed about that. Sooo, I see no need whatsoever of defending myself or opposing your assumptions and rantings.  Lastly, I have held U.S. security clearances that the public is unaware even exists so some of your accusations and assumptions are quite laughable if they were not so brutal and sad.

I think you fuel some of the very fires you then turn around try to extinguish on this talk site.  And please do not insult my intelligence and those of my friends by assuming you are an authority and the final word on the 9-11 events.  And by my friends I do not mean the persons Frank R. and Mr. Logos S-2000 or similar confused persons on this site.

Considering the diatribe in your posting I now think you owe yourself and me to check me out further.  We all have weaknesses and/or blind spots in our character, however you really crossed the lines of decency in your diatribe. So examine!!!

Gary B. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: carlosaveline 
  To: theos-talk 
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:32 PM

  Dear OceanTheos,

  I guess I know what your true name is -- a Theos-talk member who writes once in a while around here. Your style is recognizable, but I will respect your anonymity.

  I will not answer every idea in your long posting. 

  Yet I will say: I am for liberty of thought and for free examination of the relation between Written Theosophy and the Daily Life Events of Humanity. 

  But I guess this must happen within some broad limits, one of them being respect for Human Life and for Every Human People (Nation), which NAZIS do not have and have not made believe they have. 

  It is not very useful to talk to 'mental suicide bombers'. Who, perchance, might have more than just abstract philosophical sympathy for Nazi ideas and actions. In any case, thoughts and words cause serious karma, as HPB says in "Transactions". 

  The abstract limits of my vision regarding our theosophical "Sangha" include respect for life and for every Ethnic group, in thoughts and words, too, and not only in actions. 

  I have enjoyed Arab literature and wisdom for, say, some 45 years. A whole sector in my family has German origin (not Nazi, though). I believe in respect for every nation, including Jewish people, whole literature and wisdom I also enjoy. I guess the USA is an important laboratory of future civilizations, HPB wrote that and W. Judge too, dear coleague "OceanTheos". 

  If you have some kind of "esoteric" theory according to which Al Qaeda ideas are true, or "good for Theos-talk", why don't you clearly say that and sign your true name in the posting? 

  With regard to humanity issues, HPB wrote, and I can give you the bibliography of it, that "theosophists get to truth and then they say it regardless of the consequences". Go ahead! 

  On what basis are you trying to cancel the "AHIMSA" principle (the principle of non-violence) and to justify the NAZI crimes against humanity? 

  It is not about "Jews" only. It is not about Jehova's Witnesses, only -- another human group which was the blank of Hitler's "Final Solution". That suicide idiot, A. Hitler, destroyed Europe and Russia, killing millions of non-Jews in the meantime -- before killing himself. 

  What's "theosophical" about that? Tell me. 

  And why are you apparentely standing on the fence on this? Perhaps you will explain your point. 

  I hope you have no fancy that W. Judge was "a Nazi before Nazism". Judge was a student of Raja Yoga, and Raja Yoga recommends AHIMSA, non-violence.

  HPB wrote that the T.S. was created following the model of its "motherland", id est, the USA. (I have given the bibliographical references here.) 


  Respectful regards, Carlos. 

  > --- In, "oceantheos" 
  > wrote:
  > >
  > > Dear Logos student 2000 and Carlos,
  > > Carlos, please consider that you may be jumping the gun so to 
  > speak.
  > > I wish to ask a few questions and make a few observations.
  > > 
  > > Mr. logos, are you going down the road of Faction One (NWO) versus
  > > Faction Two (KsT)? If so you may be way ahead of most people on
  > > this site. Secondly, are you attempting to guide Frank R. into
  > > realizing whats Really going on, because he is very confused?
  > > 
  > > Carlos, it appears you have wished to "test and examine". If I am
  > > correct in my intuition and hunches than perhaps you may wish to 
  > > sit back and listen awhile. In all due respect, from listening to
  > > you it appears you seem to like to have the last word on things.
  > > Carlos, do you Really know why HPB and her teachers could not fully
  > > reveal more? Did they not say that they did not wish to release 
  > more
  > > opposing forces than necessary? Do you know who and what these dark
  > > forces are? Do you know what they look like in the present?
  > > 
  > > Carlos and Logos, there are many,many people in all kinds of
  > > backgrounds who are perhaps more aware and knowledgeable than the
  > > multitudes in who was behind 9-11. Now having said that, is this
  > > the appropriate site to go into that? Carlos, and others, just how 
  > > much real life testing and examination are you and others Really 
  > up 
  > > for?
  > > 
  > > Theosophy was brought out in order to affect mans consciousness,
  > > that is, their inner knowing if like. It is deeper and broader than
  > > than discussing and learning the outer intrigue that men are 
  > > involved with in trying to contol monetary systems and mind 
  > > conditioning religions and mind conditioning ideologies and wealth.
  > > 
  > > Carlos, let me remind you, you are the one who told me and everyone
  > > else that this site was to also let folks test and examine
  > > theosophy in the real world, applications. Now I hear you backing
  > > away from that position just as things are heating up nicely.
  > > 
  > > Logos, perhaps you may wish considering putting together a list of
  > > web sites for people to investigate so as to bring them up to
  > > speed with where you are? It is evident to me that you are way
  > > past Carlos in understanding the Factions, the U S Federal Reserve,
  > > the intelligence field, the covert operations and on and on.
  > > There are many that know but hesitate to speak. Unbeleivability is
  > > as rampant in those areas just as it is within the realm of
  > > people avoiding the philosophy of theosophy.
  > > 
  > > People have a wonderful way of transfering their trust of authority
  > > cultivated in their family onto their leaders (read tibal 
  > > leaders),unless they have been substantially oppressed. That 
  > > oppression has not yet occurred enough in the US to wake people up
  > > enough to Really question whats going on in their quick slide into
  > > fascism. Many know something is very wrong and for a couple 
  > > generations now people have simply blamed the "fatcats" and their
  > > two-faced politicians, not knowing that it goes way deeper than
  > > that.
  > > Now, do we really want to go there or would it be simpler to set 
  > up 
  > > another theos-political talk site? Perhaps it may be simpler if 
  > > Logos and Frank exchanged emails in private? Is Frank R. ready to
  > > look at some alternatives to idolizing Adolph Hitler? Is Carlos
  > > and others ready to look at alternatives perspectives to the 9-11 
  > > events? How deep into these issues do others in this site wish to
  > > look?
  > > 
  > > My personal experience has been that many in my realm of reach are 
  > > rather reluctant and even refusing to go into the realm of shock
  > > and unbelievability as they are mind conditioned by their
  > > televisions, corporate media, government leaders, religious 
  > leaders 
  > > and their own lack of experience and knowlege in behind the scenes 
  > > manipulation. And from personal experience, I can tell you that 
  > > most religious leaders in the U.S. are in the dark themselves and 
  > > are also afraid to speak out for fear of congregational backlash 
  > > which can be very severe. They also know to choose their battles
  > > carefully.
  > > 
  > > Logos, I can add a few web sites to a list if you wish? But first 
  > > please address my first question so that I can get some better 
  > > insight into your knowledge, if you will. If my question is unclear
  > > than please ask for clarification from me.
  > > 
  > > Thank you all for your patience with this lengthy letter and your
  > > consideration of it.
  > > 
  > > Sincerely and best regards,
  > > Gary B.
  > >
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