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Aug 11, 2006 05:04 PM
by leonmaurer

Dear Logos_Student (whoever you really are),

Well, you made your points the first time.   Does it have to be repeated?   
That seems to be another good trick used by the Neo-nazis and anti Semites.   

As for the Subject line -- the question is, who instigated it?   The kettle 
calling the pan black doesn't cut it in my book.

I'll answer your specific remarks below...

In a message dated 8/11/06 10:31:14 AM, writes:

> --- In, leonmaurer@... wrote:
> >
> > More emotional propaganda favoring only one side of the conflict
> > in the Middle east.
> >
> > War is hell wherever it occurs, for all those involved in it.  It's a sure
> > thing that the pictures of innocent civilians (of every ethnic or 
> religious
> > group) killed by the fanatic Hamas terrorists and Hezbollah rockets in 
> Israel
> > are just as gruesome, if not more so.  
> >
> > It's interesting that the Israelis mourn the inadvertent civiliandeaths in
> > the countries of those that attacked them mercilessly with intentto
> > genocidally exterminate an entire ethnic group, and who cowardly use those 
> > civilians as shields, so as to protect themselves, as well as generate 
> such
> > prpopaganda whenever they are attacked and unavoidable non combatant deaths
> > and injuries occur...   While the Muslim supporters of Hezbollah and Hamas 
> in 
> > those countries joyfully cheer the deaths of all innocent civilians of any 
> other
> > belief or nationality they consider to be Infidels.
> >
> > It's evident that the Neo Nazis are taking advantage of this unfortunate 
> but
> > inevitable conflict to justify their vicious anti Semitism based on 
> blanket
> > generalities and outright lies.
> >
> > LM
> >
> >
> >Dear LM,
> First let us be clear that the civilian non-combatants in Israel are
> innocent victims, just as are the civilian non-combatant in
> Lebanon.  You mentioned that
LM: I'm glad you acknowledge that.
> "....while the Muslim supporters of Hezbollah and Hamas in those
> countries joyfully cheer the deaths of all innocent civilians of any
> other belief or nationality they consider to be Infidels". 
> I find this statement simply untrue and rather 'seemingly'
> ignorant.  If you want to paint all Muslims with the same brush as
> people who would do this, you must also be getting all your news
> from Zionist run media, see? You also forgot about all the
> Christians and Jews who seem to "blend in" just fine with all the
> Muslims being murdered in Lebanon. 
LM: I did not say "all Muslims," but only, "supporters of Hezbollah" 
(unfortunately leaving out   the word "terrorists") -- referring to those that hate 
the Jews, wish to exterminate them, and initiated, prior to this Israeli counter 
attack (not "invasion"), sneak attacks on Israel civilians using fanatic, 
self immolating bomb carriers, unprovoked raids, kidnappings, killing of soldiers 
in Israeli territory, and rocket attacks on civilian targets.   The word 
"murder" is pretty strong to apply to accidental civilian deaths because they were 
near military targets being counter attacked.   

My news, incidentally, comes directly from trusted observers of all 
nationalities and their reports from both sides of the borders.   I was too well 
trained during WW2 in military intelligence, and later as a newspaper 
photo-journalist, not to recognize truth from propaganda.   It appears that you are prepared 
to continually defend such spurious techniques of mass media disinformation 
and distortion of truth. Of course, that's nothing more than the modern 
adaptation of an old Dugpa occult trick of "implying the lie by telling the truth." 
(Half truth, that is, in my book.)
> I find your response interesting in that you mentioned "Neo Nazis"
> taking advantage of the terrible circumstances of war.  So…. who now
> speaks for Lebanon, Fox News, CNN, and Sky?  Let us suppose that the
> events (as presented) in the links Frank provided are in fact true. 
> Are we now supposed to shun any supposed "Neo-Nazi" for speaking the
> truth by showing us the horrors of war in Lebanon?  Certainly you
> failed to mention how the Neo-Zionists (in Washington and London)
> who told Israel to invade Lebanon are as bad as the supposed "anti-
> Semitic Neo-Nazi's" showing us some pictures of a nation being
> invaded by a known terrorist state? 
LM: I did not say that the links provided were not true, but only that they 
are pure propaganda without showing the other side of the picture of Israeli 
casualties due to Muslim terrorist attacks.   Your claim that lebanon is "a 
nation invaded by a known terrorist state" does not do justice to Israel by not 
referring (in counterbalance) to the previous attacks, raids, and other 
"invasions" of their homeland and civilians by known terrorist military organizations 
acting from the cover of adjoining nations and protected from counter invasion 
by hiding behind civilians and the duped children of that nation. 

You also do not balance your propaganda claim -- that the so called "Neo 
Zionists in London and Washington" (Who, specifically, are they?) are at fault -- 
by also noting the previous attacks by Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists, who 
actually are represented in or are the governments of the nations they attack 
Israel from.   Nor do you indicate that these initial invaders, and both past and 
present attackers of Israeli civilians, are supported by Iran and Syria -- 
who also wish to exterminate the Jews and take over Israel so these Arab 
countries don't have to support their brother Arabs, the so called Palestinian 
refugees -- which they still keep in concentration camps.   

I guess they learned all their lessons (including the propaganda techniques 
now parroted by certain Neo-Nazis we all know) ) from Hitler and his original 
Nazi cronies.   Heil Der Fuhrer, Adolph -- but give credit to Herman; "Hooray 
for our side and damn the other" is the drill;   And, "keep that always in 
mind" is the order of the day.   From my view, they are still the jokers that 
Charley made them out to be, and to the world, they could be a deadly bunch if 
they keep on backing and promoting the anti Jewish Arab terrorists and their own 
sick anti Semitic philosophy. (Funny that most Arabs are Semites, isn't it?)

However, Muslims cannot be blamed as a group, nor can the Jews.   But, It's a 
shame how the   Islamic terrorists distort the Koran to justify their 
blatant, and murderous anti-Semitism...   While, It's an obvious fact that there is 
no such generalized and deadly anti-Islamism among the Jews as a religious or 
political group.   Nor is there anything in their Bible that condones it.   

(Incidentally, these Biblical restraints, notably in the ten commandments, 
are what underlies the benevolent teachings of the Christ.)   

It's also worthwhile noting that these admonitions came from Moses, who, 
being an Egyptian trained Kabbalist, was not party to the "chosen people" idea of 
Abraham, but simply a wise leader who brought them out of slavery and led them 
to Israel as a nation of all different racial stocks to settle there until, 
eventually, after a long reign, they were conquered, ousted and dispersed by 
the Babylonian Empire ... Although, never to lose their fundamental religious 
beliefs and exiled national ties to their former homeland.   That is the 
fundamental root of pure (not political) Zionism -- in spite of what the Nazi 
propagandists say.   However if it wasn't for the persecution of the Jews throughout 
Europe, and the Nazi anti-Semitism that led to WW2 and the Holocaust, as well 
as the political and energy needs of the West, there might never have been a 
Jewish nation in Palestine.   

So, who are we to lay the blame on for any of the problems we find the world 
in today?   Aren't we not all, as members (not the leaders) of any religious, 
national, racial, or social group -- or of none of any one, but of all, as 
true "theosophists" -- simply the victims of circumstances. and our own personal 
and group karma, that are, and have always been (except for the karma of 
knowledgeable theosophists), out of our individual control?  
> I understand you think Hezbollah are terrorists and you called
> them "…..cowards using civilians as shields."  Dear LM, are you not
> aware that this information was proven false and that in fact
> Hezbollah has not been doing this?  I also wonder where are
> Hezbollah to stand?  Perhaps, they should stand still in the middle
> of an empty street and place a giant "X" on themselves?  Perhaps,
> they would much rather fight from inside their homes – if they still
> had any left!
LM: I know, not "think" that Hezbollah are terrorists, or condone and support 
terrorist activities.   How was that information been proven false?   Proven 
by whom and by what?   I still stand on the balanced views I presented above.  
 Although, I do not place the blame on either party for ongoing civilian 
casualties in a present war of ideologies, in which neither side can be blamed at 
the exclusion of the other.   However, I am certain that the Israeli side 
mourns these deaths in Lebanon, as well as how certain factions on the Muslim side 
(including those in most Arab nations) cheer for such deaths and maimings in 
Israel.   In the case of the Hezbollah rocket launchers, if they were fighting 
honorably, they would fire from protected bunkers far from civilians, or use 
the same fire and move techniques of the Western armies.
> You also mentioned Hezbollah "…..generate such propaganda whenever
> they are attacked and unavoidable non combatant deaths and injuries
> occur".  I wish to ask you now:  What do you suppose Hezbollah was
> doing before their country was first invaded and did they even exist
> before that time?
LM: Who are you kidding with such a leading question?   (Another propaganda 
trick, BTW.)   Are you not aware that Hezbollah has had a standing army, 
trained for many years (as thoroughly and as well equipped as any advanced world 
class national force) to ultimately attack and defeat Israel in a predetermined 
and planned war of extinction that they were prepared to provoke by any means?  
 And that their weapons supplied by Iran and Syria during that time, and now, 
are the equal of those used by any opponent (except possibly for the Israeli 
air force that some say are the best in the world).   The   original invasion 
of South Lebanon was done in response to the Syrian war with Israel and their 
occupation of and use of the south Lebanon hills and the Golen heights as 
their fighting ground to directly attack Israeli targets, whether civilian or 
military.   Since almost every Israeli citizen is a reserve soldier, I suppose 
that is the rationale behind their attacks on civilian targets.   But what excuse 
is there for going after their families, wives, or children?   Can Israel be 
blamed for counter attacking the Syrians and ultimately taking over the Golen 
Heights and driving them out of south Lebanon -- which was then replaced by 
Syrian supported Hezbollah fighters as a well equipped terrorist trained 
guerilla army. 

Besides, who invaded or attacked whom first?   And, don't you know how long 
this Islamic terrorism (by both Hamas and Hezbollah -- not to mention Al Queda) 
against the Jews and their supporters in the West (many non Jews as a matter 
of fact) has been going on?   Haven't you heard of how many innocent civilians 
of all ethnic, racial and religious groups Arab terrorists killed and maimed 
with their sneak attacks on civilians, in NY, London, Spain, etc., etc., since 
911?   And, didn't you know who was responsible for the bombing and massacre 
of American peace keeping marines in Lebanon, or the bombing of an American 
military ship in the Persian Gulf some years ago?   So, where do you get your 
news from?   

So, as you see it, the Arab Muslims in Hezbollah aren't terrorists, are not 
part of the Lebanese government, haven't been preparing for this deadly war for 
a long, long time, and they didn't invade and Sattack first.   Right?

Give us a break, already.

> Logos_student 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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