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May 06, 2006 06:00 AM
by carlosaveline

Dear Ken,

Thanks a lot for your commentaries.

I see you have opinions, skills  and writing style admirably similar to those of Daniel, who also is a many-faced character.

Best regards,  Carlos.


Data:Sat, 6 May 2006 03:52:23 -0400

Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Solovyoff, Analysis, Crosbie-Tingley, Quote Fetish, Loyalty

> Solovyoff, Analysis, Crosbie-Tingley, Quote Fetish, Loyalty
> Daniel, Frank, Carlos , Bruce - various points below:
> SOLOVYOFF -This past January I noticed Slovyoff's 'Modern Priestess of
> Isis' on the bookshelf and realizing that I had never read it or even
> looked it over opened it.......and quite honestly I could not put it down.
> Why ? because it is so incredibly interesting - as a critique of HPB ? No,
> because so frequently the experiences that Solovyoff presents overide his
> own criticisms , so much so that in many ways not available anywhere else
> it actually could be considered a kind of vindication. Certainly it needs
> much work and critical analysis AND I would say with that it is a gold
> mine. By the time I finished reading it I only wished that Leaf had
> translated the whole thing into English. Do you (Daniel)have the Russian
> original ? and also what a story of one man's (Solovyoff's)excessive
> rationalistic rejection of extraordinary experiences presented to him. And
> appendix A, Vera's response is very important historically. Again, Daniel,
> is this complete and does anhyone know where Vera's original Russian is?
> CRITICAL ANALYSIS - I do believe (Daniel, Carlos, Bruce) that careful and
> critical analysis is needed in going over the letters. However, (as Daniel
> you know was very fruitful on another general inquiry and topic), a small
> group of like minded and motivated students directed and committed to this
> as a project for a couple of years could make great progress. The group
> must agree on method and goals to produce long lasting quality results that
> are useful to both scholars and Theosophical students alike. Algeo's
> biggest blunder, in my view, in addition to completely mishandling and
> losing John Cooper's scholarship and contribution, was to do it alone and
> without the scholarly and Theosophical resources necessary to produce a
> quality work.
> RE WORLDWATCH - Carlos - nice to see a shift of subject ... thank you for
> this important and useful link.
> CROSBIE - TINGLEY HISTORY - Yes, Daniel thank you for posting these
> historical documents and Frank for your comments. They are real and true
> and should be out in the open. Repressing them is unhealthy. The ULT
> 'history', even the 'edited' later 'Theosophical Movement 1875-1950' has
> much significant inaccurate information. Quite some years ago when I was
> studying all the TS historical info, I read through this book and began to
> mark up the chapters relating to Point Loma, Tingley, Crosbie etc. with
> corrections.....THERE WERE SO MANY I DIDN'T FINISH ! it was laughable.... I
> asked my father what he thought: he smiled and said "well, that's what they
> BELIEVE....though it didn't happen that way..." Iverson Harris had earlier
> attempted to present some historical facts re Crosbie/Tingley/Point Loma to
> ULT but I don't believe he received any answer. I think that in principle
> that when organizations are open with their respective historical views and
> willing to change and adjust previous errors of fact that intercommunicaton
> and open interchange of Theosophy is enhanced. It can only be beneficial
> when old control issues and representations are released and positive
> energy is then always the result. I am all for anything that goes in this
> direction.
> QUOTE FETISH - In my experience, when very young and later knowing many
> 'Point Loma' Theosophists, (literally probably in thousands of
> conversations with hundreds of Theosophists) in discussions of
> Theosophical ideas and subjects there has never been any NEED to QUOTE
> anyone, to prove something or make it 'right' by noting some passage or
> quote ! While the written medium may incline toward quoting, it would
> certainly be interesting to have a week or month without any quoting
> allowed in the posting to see what would happen. I think of the Yeats
> (Jerry for reference ?) anecdote when he was very young and giving his
> first public talk on Theosophy, he stood frozen staring at his paper
> quietly reading it, HPB nervously tapping her foot until he finished when
> she asked him for the paper, tore it up and told him to give the talk again
> without reading or notes. Yeats did, his energy rose to the occasion, and
> then the audience and HPB found it interesting and engaging.......
> JUDGE - OLCOTT Frank, I do not have a reference regarding the statement I
> made about the Judge-Olcott correspondence. I need to reflect back and
> remember exactly who mentioned or wrote this etc. I do not have access to
> our archival correspondence just yet (packed away still), so it may be a
> couple of months before I can check. 
> LOYAL/HPB - "....those few Theosophist who have remained loyal......."
> ....what does 'loyal' mean ? to who? to what? is this internal or exernal
> ...? or both? and if so HOW so.... that is WHO decides, say if 'I' Ken
> Small am 'loyal' to this or that person or idea or principle or what ever ?
> who can say "oh, you are not loyal, because you did or didn't....etc." If
> loyalty is based on our motivation, it is my understanding that pure
> motivation would be the by product of a highly realized or enlightened
> condition. H.T. Edge once commented in an article that at this stage of
> humanities evolution 'motivation is mixed' -- this being the intrinsic
> nature of kama-manas with conscious and uncounscious motivational factors
> mixed.... (I could go on but I hope the drift of my view is here --
> (Epitome of Theosophy p. 21 may also be useful in practice !)
> Ken
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