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The Autonomy of the Learner

Apr 20, 2006 11:15 AM
by carlosaveline


Dear Friends,

Cass and Sufilight wrote: 

Cass wrote:
Cass: I am getting a sense of fear coming from you that occult knowledge 
must be for only the righteous, but who can decide, who is righteous. 
Perhaps I am complacent but I believe that the Masters are watching over us 
and will not allow anything to stop the divine plan of evolution. Even if it 
means many souls may perish there will be other opportunities in this and 
other solar systems for us to "know ourselves"

M. Sufilight:
What you sense as fear is in fact compassion. Just try to read my comments 
in this email. You think the Masters are watching over us.
Then I wonder, what made the Coulomb incident happen? What created the 
Leadbeater scandal within TS? What created the Liberal Catholic Church and 
its scandals?


And I, Carlos, comment:


1) Occult knowledge is for those who have clean lives and pure hearts/minds, and each one has to work that as best he can and evaluate his/her own efforts. Purity oif heart and mind is the general role because only them give you clarity of VISION and you need a clear vision in order to see the way to follow.  This has nothing to do with old Catholic blind-belief. It's Yoga, it's scientific.  Purity of Mind grants clarity of vision and liberates from illusion.  

2) The Masters cannot FORCE people to preserve the Movement. They work  in the long term.  They are helping at the higher-manas level, and  they give us time to work things out in a reasonable way in the next decades and centuries.  They do not have to "Control" events. They preserve humanity's autonomy.   This central aspect of autonomy of the learners is something Leadbeater/Besant  made most people forget.  

As the Masters watch, they will NOT force events or control History... they give us time. 

(I  bet a couple of tea cups as, in the next few years,  there will be a gradual new beginning and an improvement in the movement, both ethically and spiritually. Accept the challenge? ) 


Best regards,   Carlos. 










De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:48:34 +0200

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Concerning Secrecy - H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric Instructions

> Hallo Cass and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> 1.
> Cass wrote:
> "Cass: Perhaps their reasons are driven through ignorance rather than 
> through evil? I am partially convinced that any press for HPB is good 
> press, that it is better to give a version of the ancient truths, even as a 
> substitute theory, than to continue down the path of christianity, et al."
> 
> M. Sufilight:
> Yes, Ignorance is maybe a better word, than unconscious sorcery.
> To have no moral stance or to give ones audience and readers a blurred 
> impression on ones moral stance
> is NOT at all good when writing about HPB.
> Maybe this is what Carlos have been referring to when protesting against 
> Daniel Caldwell's various activities.
> 
> Do not publish anything theosophical in any manner what so ever without 
> taking a clear stance.
> And do not publish anything if it clearly misleads the Seekers after Truth 
> or the potential upcoming Seekers after Truth.
> When you are influential your duty is different, than when you are almost 
> ignored. Some websites are for instance more influential than others.
> The below quote have parallels to this.
> 
> 
> Idries Shah has written:
> "Rationalizations, association of ideas, and lack of humor often go
> together and can usually be disentangled. I was once standing at a corner of
> the huge market street called the Bhindi Bazaar in Bombay, when a bus 
> stopped
> and a troop of determined Western seekers-after-truth descended and 
> clustered
> around an old man who was squatting on the side of the road. They
> photographed him and chattered excitedly. One of the visitors tried to start
> a conversation with him, but he only stared back, so she remarked to the
> guide, "What a sweet old man; he must be a real live saint. Is he a saint?"
> 
> The Indian, who had a sense of humor as well as an interest in not
> wanting to tell a lie and a need to please his clients, said, "Madam, saint
> he may be, but to us he is the neighborhood rapist."
> 
> She immediately replied, "Oh, yes, I've heard of that; it involves their
> religion. I guess he must be a Tantrist!"
> 
> (Here is the whole story from which the above was taken:
> Part 1 http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200303/tt00041.html
> Part 2 http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200303/tt00042.html
> Part 3 http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200303/tt00043.html
> Part 4 http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200303/tt00044.html )
> 
> 
> Maybe it is just me, but I can easily find some members at Theos-talk who 
> has a tendency to fit with the above Western seekers-after-truth.
> :-)
> - - - - - - -
> As I see it people are crying out for psychoteraphy and better 
> psychoteraphy, which is the same as what many of the New Age groups really 
> are offering.
> The fact is though, that many people do not know, that this is what is 
> actually happening to them, when they enrol themseleves into such a group.
> Whether this is true about some of the groups known as Theosophical or 
> pseudo-Theosophical one will have to find out by one self.
> 
> 
> 2.
> Cass wrote:
> Cass: Again it comes to motive, he appears to be referring to those who want 
> to become occultists for power, authority and prestige over their fellow 
> men. That basically these are either weeded out very early in the piece or 
> fall prey to their baser instincts.
> 
> M. Sufilight:
> I think it appears to be important to consider if there are or are not any, 
> (like Blavatsky said), "enemies at the gates" today in the various 
> theosophical groups leaderships. For instance "enemies at the gate" which 
> seeks occult power, authority and prestige.
> 
> 
> 3.
> Cass wrote:
> Cass: I am getting a sense of fear coming from you that occult knowledge 
> must be for only the righteous, but who can decide, who is righteous. 
> Perhaps I am complacent but I believe that the Masters are watching over us 
> and will not allow anything to stop the divine plan of evolution. Even if it 
> means many souls may perish there will be other opportunities in this and 
> other solar systems for us to "know ourselves"
> 
> M. Sufilight:
> What you sense as fear is in fact compassion. Just try to read my comments 
> in this email. You think the Masters are watching over us.
> Then I wonder, what made the Coulomb incident happen? What created the 
> Leadbeater scandal within TS? What created the Liberal Catholic Church and 
> its scandals?
> 
> I will one more time repeat what Blavatsky said. And you might want to call 
> Blavatsky a woman with fear.
> But I am quite certain, that her agenda was compassion and Altruism.
> I quote Blavatsky:
> 
> An excerpt:
> THEOSOPHY OR JESUITISM? written by Blavatsky
> "Theosophy and Jesuitism are the two opposite poles, one far above,
> the other far below even that stagnant marsh. Both offer power--one to the
> spiritual, the other to the psychic and intellectual Ego in man. The former
> is "the wisdom that is from above . . . pure, peaceable, gentle . . . full
> of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy," while
> the latter is "the wisdom that descendeth not from above, but is earthly,
> sensual, DEVILISH."3 One is the power of Light, the other that of Darkness.
> . . ."
> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/TheosophyOrJesuitism.htm
> 
> Blavatsky often said, that the jesuits were the most dangerous group to the 
> theosophical cause.
> It is this dilemma, call it esoterical if you like, which always will hunt 
> Theosophy and theosophy.
> The fact is, that - today - many so-called theosophist are quite clearly 
> doing almost nothing - or at least embarrassingly little on this issue.
> They just sit in their chairs and wait, that the Masters should do all and 
> everything.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> 
> 4.
> Cass wrote:
> "Cass: Para Brahman is in his heavens and all is well. I know that 
> ParaBrahman is real as he is at the source of all creation."
> 
> M. Sufilight:
> Maybe some will say I am too concerned,
> but according to Blavatsky we have that ParaBrahman is not a "he":
> 
> "Parabraham is not this or that, it is not even consciousness, as
> it cannot be related to matter or anything conditioned. It is not Ego nor is
> it Non-ego, not even Atma, but verily the one source of all manifestations
> and modes of existence."
> (written in The secret Doctrine, Vol 1., page 130 by Blavatsky )
> http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...and a sweet hug from all of the x-file 
> carrying Rugrats...
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cass Silva" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Concerning Secrecy - H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric 
> Instructions
> 
> 
> Thanks for responding Morten,
> 
> "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo Cass and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Please, try to understand that this email is written out of compassion to
> all of us.
> Please...
> Cass: I also come from that same place.
> 
> Cass wrote:
> "I am not that concerned Morten"
> 
> I would say and suggest, that you AUGHT to be concerned.
> ParaBrahman is real.
> 
> Cass: Para Brahman is in his heavens and all is well. I know that 
> ParaBrahman is real as he is at the source of all creation.
> 
> Cass wrote:
> "If this knowledge had been freely available to any book reader we would
> have blown up this planet twice over."
> 
> Be careful. It might happen!
> 
> Cass: My fears entirely, was it Keely that understood vril energy but 
> destroyed the evidence as he feared it would result in disaster if placed in 
> the wrong hands?
> 
> One aught to seek wisdom and act wisely.
> Please remember, that I have in all this only been talking in general
> terms - and not about Blavatsky alone.
> I am quite certain, that those Seekers after Truth, who yet do NOT really
> and honestly Know, what is good to publish and make officially available -
> and what NOT to make officially available - aught NOT to publish anything
> new - ie. anything not yet published. And they aught to carefully consider
> their conscience when copying papers from other authuors and while later
> distributing them - for instance distributing them on the Internet. We all
> have something to learn.
> If any writer, author or Seeker just without compassion publishes anything
> they can get hold on without verifying, what compassion is, they will also
> have to face the consequences of misleading a number of Seekers.
> 
> Cass: I agree that the road can be rocky but we must also learn to 
> discriminate between what is false and what is fact. I am sure that the 
> karmic consequences are tied in to motive.
> 
> I am in fact talking about unconscious sorcery. When one becomes a 
> wellknown face or a wellknown teacher one better think twice before one 
> starts playing with fire and go publishing just anything, - and especially 
> anything on the Internet, because it has a larger and broader audience.
> 
> Cass: Perhaps their reasons are driven through ignorance rather than 
> through evil? I am partially convinced that any press for HPB is good 
> press, that it is better to give a version of the ancient truths, even as a 
> substitute theory, than to continue down the path of christianity, et al.
> 
> 
> 
> Master Morya said that Blavatsky was too outspoken,
> and yet Blavatsky was FORBIDDEN to say what she Knew:
> 
> "You know K.H. and me -- buss! know you anything of the whole Brotherhood
> and its ramifications? The Old Woman is accused of untruthfulness,
> inaccuracy in her statements. "Ask no questions and you will receive no
> lies." She is forbidden to say what she knows. You may cut her to pieces and
> she will not tell. Nay -- she is ordered in cases of need to mislead people;
> and, were she more of a natural born liar -- she might be happier and won
> her day long since by this time. But that's just where the shoe pinches,
> Sahib. She is too truthful, too outspoken, too incapable of dissimulation:
> and now she is being daily crucified for it. Try not to be hasty, respected
> Sir. The world was not made in a day; nor has the tail of the yak developed
> in one year. Let evolution take its course naturally -- lest we make it
> deviate and produce monsters by presuming to guide it. "
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-47.htm (Received Allahabad,
> 3rd March, 1882.)
> 
> Cass: I guess HPB as a personality was unable to deal in parables. Morya 
> understood that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in the wrong 
> minds, but 100 years have passed, and the world is crying out for an 
> alternative philosophy that synthesises, science and religion.
> 
> 
> 
> A quote from Blavatsky:
> "It is well known that the first rule of the society is to carry out the
> object of forming the nucleus of a universal brotherhood. The practical
> working of this rule was explained by those who laid it down, to the
> following effect:-- 
> HE WHO DOES NOT PRACTISE ALTRUISM; HE WHO IS NOT PREPARED TO SHARE HIS LAST
> MORSEL WITH A WEAKER OR POORER THAN HIMSELF; HE WHO NEGLECTS TO HELP HIS
> BROTHER MAN, OF WHATEVER RACE, NATION, OR CREED, WHENEVER AND WHEREVER HE
> MEETS SUFFERING, AND WHO TURNS A DEAF EAR TO THE CRY OF HUMAN MISERY; HE WHO
> HEARS AN INNOCENT PERSON SLANDERED, WHETHER A BROTHER THEOSOPHIST OR NOT,
> AND DOES NOT UNDERTAKE HIS DEFENCE AS HE WOULD UNDERTAKE HIS OWN--IS NO
> THEOSOPHIST.
> 
> Lucifer, November, 1887"
> ("LET EVERY MAN PROVE HIS OWN WORK")
> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/LetEveryManProveHisOwnWork.htm
> 
> 
> OCCULTISM VERSUS THE OCCULT ARTS
> "Let then those who will dabble in magic, whether they understand its nature
> or not, but who find the rules imposed upon students too hard, and who,
> therefore lay Atma-Vidya or Occultism aside--go without it. Let them become
> magicians by all means, even though they do become Voodoos and Dugpas for
> the next ten incarnations."
> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/OccultismVersusTheOccultArts.htm
> 
> 
> Master Morya says:
> 
> "On the other hand we claim to know more of the secret cause of events than
> you men of the world do. I say then that it is the vilification and abuse of
> the founders, the general misconception of the aims and objects of the
> Society that paralyses its progress -- nothing else. There's no want of
> definitiveness in these objects were they but properly explained. The
> members would have plenty to do were they to pursue reality with half the
> fervour they do mirage. I am sorry to find you comparing Theosophy to a
> painted house on the stage whereas in the hands of true philanthropists and
> theosophists it might become as strong as an impregnable fort. The situation
> is this: men who join the Society with the one selfish object of reaching
> power making occult science their only or even chief aim may as well not
> join it -- they are doomed to disappointment as much as those who commit the
> mistake of letting them believe that the Society is nothing else. It is just
> because they preach too much "the Brothers" and too little if at all
> Brotherhood that they fail. How many times had we to repeat, that he who
> joins the Society with the sole object of coming in contact with us and if
> not of acquiring at least of assuring himself of the reality of such powers
> and of our objective existence -- was pursuing a mirage? I say again then.
> 
> Cass: Again it comes to motive, he appears to be referring to those who want 
> to become occultists for power, authority and prestige over their fellow 
> men. That basically these are either weeded out very early in the piece or 
> fall prey to their baser instincts.
> 
> It is he alone who has the love of humanity at heart, who is capable of
> grasping thoroughly the idea of a regenerating practical Brotherhood who is
> entitled to the possession of our secrets. He alone, such a man -- will
> never misuse his powers, as there will be no fear that he should turn them
> to selfish ends. A man who places not the good of mankind above his own good
> is not worthy of becoming our chela -- he is not worthy of becoming higher
> in knowledge than his neighbour. If he craves for phenomena let him be
> satisfied with the pranks of spiritualism."
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-38.htm (Received Allahabad.
> About February, 1882. )
> 
> 
> 
> Master Morya was struggling in 1882. Do you think things have improved since
> he wrote this???
> 
> Let us have more Brotherhood and Sisterhood - ie. more Altruism and more
> wise
> teachings - teachings adapted to time, place, people and circumstances in a
> wise manner.
> 
> 
> I am not concerned in any negative sense of the word. But concerned I am.
> 
> Cass: I am getting a sense of fear coming from you that occult knowledge 
> must be for only the righteous, but who can decide, who is righteous. 
> Perhaps I am complacent but I believe that the Masters are watching over us 
> and will not allow anything to stop the divine plan of evolution. Even if it 
> means many souls may perish there will be other opportunities in this and 
> other solar systems for us to "know ourselves"
> 
> LOL
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cass Silva"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Concerning Secrecy - H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric
> Instructions
> 
> 
> I am not that concerned Morten, as I believe that before the Vril energy can
> be used it must be understood at a personal level. HPB would not have
> allowed anything 'dangerous' or 'revealing' to be put into print. I have
> read that we are tested many many times before we are accepted as a chela,
> and not at a physical level either. It is OK to say these things and much
> more exist that we cannot begin to understand, but only through personal
> experience are we taught to know, handle and control these forces. If this
> knowledge had been freely available to any book reader we would have blown
> up this planet twice over.
> 
> Cheers
> Cass
> 
> "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Not all books, writings and texts are on the same level of compassion.
> Not all emails are on the same level of compassion.
> 
> So you find no harm in making a certain scientist or two aware of how to use
> the Vril Force?
> Some theosophical texts will most certainly have a great risk of creating a
> dugpa out of some readers of it. Or circumstances not wanted. Aught such
> texts not only to be revealed to those Seekers ready for their content?
> 
> Wisdom is still important.
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cass Silva"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Concerning Secrecy - H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric
> Instructions
> 
> 
> I am not that concerned Morten, as I believe that before the Vril energy can
> be used it must be understood at a personal level. HPB would not have
> allowed anything 'dangerous' or 'revealing' to be put into print. I have
> read that we are tested many many times before we are accepted as a chela,
> and not at a physical level either. It is OK to say these things and much
> more exist that we cannot begin to understand, but only through personal
> experience are we taught to know, handle and control these forces. If this
> knowledge had been freely available to any book reader we would have blown
> up this planet twice over.
> 
> Cheers
> Cass
> 
> "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Not all books, writings and texts are on the same level of compassion.
> Not all emails are on the same level of compassion.
> 
> So you find no harm in making a certain scientist or two aware of how to use
> the Vril Force?
> Some theosophical texts will most certainly have a great risk of creating a
> dugpa out of some readers of it. Or circumstances not wanted. Aught such
> texts not only to be revealed to those Seekers ready for their content?
> 
> Wisdom is still important.
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "M K Ramadoss"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 3:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Concerning Secrecy - H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric
> Instructions
> 
> 
> > Here is my take on the following.
> >
> > With passage of time what was once esoteric/hidden becomes exoteric.
> >
> > The real secrets are never to be found written anywhere as much of it has
> > to
> > learned to read between the lines and using one's intuition.
> >
> > Hence, I do not see any problem in making what has already been printed or
> > handwritten to be made available on the Internet.
> >
> > For those who are not yet ready to really understand, even when truth
> > stares
> > at them when they read a written material, they are likely to be blind to
> > it
> > and do not see it.
> >
> > In my own personal experience, there are items I have read decades ago
> > which
> > did not make much sense then are now making more sense and am able to
> > understand better.
> >
> > mkr
> >
> > PS: I read somewhere that a great man said "Nothing created by human mind
> > is
> > sacred"
> >
> >
> > On 4/17/06, M. Sufilight wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I am quite certain, that those Seekers after Truth, who yet do NOT really
> >> and honestly Know, what is good to publish and make officially
> >> available -
> >> and what NOT to make officially available - aught NOT to publish
> >> anything -
> >> not yet published. And they aught to carefully consider their conscience
> >> when copying papers from other authuors and while later distributing
> >> them -
> >> for instance distributing them on the Internet. We all have something to
> >> learn.
> >> Remember, that the Master said, that Blavatsky in fact was too outspoken.
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
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> 
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call 
> rates.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
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