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Did Socrates Need Outer Initiation?

Apr 03, 2006 06:57 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline



Yes, HPB said Socrates was "not initiated" -- but not initiated in what?

It is clear: he was not initiated in the conventional, Western, physical plane Mysteries of his own time and society. Physical level, conventional initiation means affiliation and often dependence.

Julian, who WAS initiated in the Mysteries as HPB informs, writes (in his Oration VII) that Socrates of Athens, like Diogenes, the Cynic, DID NOT NEED to be initiated because they both had "direct sources" so to say.

In saying this, Julian was only anticipating his own fate, in a way, as he also died for "revealing too much", as HPB writes ( BCW, volume XIV). She compares Julian and Socrates with a favourable view of both of them.

Socrates was ABOVE the Mysteries of his time, then. His link was inner.

I should bring more evidences, and references, about this issue, here.

Many theosophists use to get too enthusiastic with Plato and there is, to my view, a misunderstanding of HPB's real position with regard to Socrates, as if she thought he was "beneath initiation". She did not. We must not idealize the Greek Mysteries too much. As a corporation, it had great limitations, of which Socrates was free.

Philosophy, with its free thought, goes far beyond myths and mystery corporations/organizations.
Yet as it explains myths and reveal them, it gets into dangerous waters for ortodoxy.

So does Theosophy. HPB had much in common with Socrates, with Julian -- and even something in common with Diogenes, the Cynic, too. She, too, was accused of "talking too much" -- ask Subba Row about that...

Regards, Carlos.

From: Cass Silva <>
Subject: Re: Theos-World THE ONLY REAL TEMPLE
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 19:31:05 -0800 (PST)

Hello Carlos
I read this a little differently in that HPB is suggesting that Socrates was not initiated, but new the path to initiation came by knowing thyself. Self, whether divine or human. So perhaps she is suggesting that the first stage is to know our human self, in truth and without judgement before the heavenly man will manifest?

if otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
fellow-men, the noble injuction, ‘O man, know thyself’’, he succeeded
recognizing his God within himself." (1)


carlosaveline cardoso aveline <> wrote:




Dear Friends,

Outer, physical Temples can be seen, at best, as metaphors for,
or projections of, the temple or divine presence in our own consciousness.

Referring to the old Socrates of Athens, , H. P. Blavatsky wrote:

�From the days of the primitive man described by the first Vedic poet, down
to our modern poet, there has not been a philosopher worthy of that name,
who did not carry in the silent sanctuary of his heart the grand and
mysterious truth. If initiated, he learnt it as a sacred science; if
otherwise, then, like Socrates repeating to himself, as well as to his
fellow-men, the noble injuction, �O man, know thyself��, he succeeded in
recognizing his God within himself." (1)

The esoteric movement is only a stimulating and testing common ground for
that inner recognition.

Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline

(1) �Isis Unveiled�, by H. P. Blavatsky, Theosophical University Press,
Pasadena, California, USA, 1988, two volumes, see volume II, p. 318.
Reproduced by H.P. Blavatsky in �Collected Writing�, TPH Wheaton, volume
XIV, 1985, 733 pp., see p. 48.

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