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"Fohat" and Brotherhood

Mar 28, 2006 11:08 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline


Thanks, my brother.

I think you are basically right.

I see sincerity in Frank and respect that.

Although I believe it to be very unlikely that the whole persecution against the Jews does not exist, or that the German policy of collective assassination against them did not happen in WW II, I am open to a calm debate, and especially so within the theosophical movement. I also am open to learn myself and to change views when they are proved to be wrong. It has happened often.

I answered to Frank at Theos-talk and would like to have your sincere, private commentaries on that.

Today I saw R. Robb's leter in FOHAT, Fall 1998, volume II, number 3, about this, which is a commentary to the editorial in FOHAT Spring 1998 issue, I believe.

Can you send me, air mail, any issues of the magazine which deal with this topic, or give me directions as to get to them at the Internet? (Sorry for being slightly idiot and lazy with regard to the Internet.)

In time: I received the excellent last issue of FOHAT. Each time I receive it I see how great the magazine is. All of it.

Best regards, Carlos.

From: "robert_b_macd" <>
Subject: Theos-World Re: "Fohat" and Universal Brotherhood
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:11:39 -0000

Dear Carlos,

I would rather not reply to anything Bart has to say, nor do I feel
that you should feel obligated to defend the magazine against him.
His modus operandi has been to deal in unsupported innuendo, and as
such, his views don't interest me.

As for the questions of Rabbis, Priests, Ministers, Imams, etc., I
feel if the whole class was eliminated from the face of the earth,
humanity could make a giant leap forward.  These purveyors of
materialism are leading the greater portion of mankind down the left
hand path and are nothing more than the tools of darkness and
ignorance, whether they know it or not.  Theosophy is engaged in
undermining the creeds put forward by this class of people.  If Bart
wants to side with them against theosophy, then again this does not
interest me.

As for Frank, I had a look at his post.  From what I see, he doesn't
deal in innuendo, he deals in evidence.  The worst that can be said
about Frank from what he has presented, is that he is a proud German
fighting what he perceives to be unfair accusations against his
people.  He has reached an opinion based on the evidence, and all I
can say is, So What?  His opinion does not make him any better or any
worse a theosophist.  From his words I see that he is open to having
his opinion changed, all that is required is for someone to present
him with some hard evidence.  He is not closed off.  From what I
understand, this is how a theosophist approaches any field of
knowledge, look at the evidence, come to your own conclusions, and
defend your position vigorously while remaining open to evidence and
arguments to the contrary.  If Frank feels Germany has been treated
unjustly (and given the fact that historians and researchers with
contrary views are being jailed, he may have good reason to believe
this), then this adds a moral dimension to his defence.  I also truly
believe that if Jews faced persecution today in Germany, it would be
Frank who would be there protecting them against injustice and harm.
If nothing else, he has demonstrated a lot of courage by taking a
stand that could easily have him jailed in his home country.

As an historical question, the holocaust is not of interest to
theosophy.  As a question of justice, theosophists should be
interested in seeing that all the evidence reaches the light of day so
that the hollocaust is not made political (which is exactly what it is
now).  To associate a stance against a belief in the historical
hollocaust with anti-semitism is illogical and unjust.  It is not
theosophical, nor is it even scientific.  It is purely emotional
stemming from an excessive sympathy.  It is one thing to be
sympathetic for the suffering of others, it is another to tolerate any
form of injustice in the name of that sympathy.  We must all be
allowed to have our say on any subject without fear of reprisal.  For
those who feel strongly that Frank is wrong, educate him.  If you are
not willing to do that, then you have no respect for Frank, and it
must be asked whether you feel you have a duty towards yours fellow
man at all.

Fohat defends an open debate into any field of knowledge, the
hollocaust has no special exmeption as far as I am concerned.


--- In, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
> Bart,
> I wouldn't say so.
> "Fohat" people are real theosophists and they understand universal
> brotherhood very well,  as long as I know.
> Carlos.
> >From: Bart Lidofsky <bartl@...>
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Rabbis, Kind People
> >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:31:01 -0500
> >
> >	You might want to forward this to FOHAT, where at least you'll find
> >people who will take you seriously.
> >
> >	Bart
> >
> >Frank Reitemeyer wrote:
> >
> > > Bart, would you be so kind  - as you are a Theosophist in the first
> >place and not a follower of the aggressive Holo religion,as I
suppose - to
> >present an "expert evidence in the form of a written report"? (this
is what
> >I have found is the true translation of the technical term which
> >lawyers call "Sachbeweis")
> > >
> > > Or is it that you force me to believe your dogmas blindly? So
far as I
> >know no such a proof was up to the present laid on the table.
> > > All we have on the gas chambers are eyewitness reports of Jews
who have
> >money and other advantages or from German officials under torture
or from
> >"documents" in strange German grammar.
> > > Or better present a photo of a "gas chamber"! It will be a
> > >
> > > "I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement is
> >quite correct-not a single mention of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a
'genocide' of
> >the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war. This is
> >astonishing.  How can it be explained? Eisenhower's Crusade in
Europe is a
> >book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War
> >4,448 pages; and de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054
> >pages.  In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061
pages (not
> >including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one
> >find no mention either of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the
Jews, or
> >of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war."
> > > - Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus, University of Ulster,
December 5,
> >2005
> > >
> > > There is reason to believe that this satanic religion - which
BTW, is
> >anti-semitic! - is a creation of Hollywood of the 1970'ies!
> > >
> > > Bart, what do you say about the following dialogue between
Himmler and
> >Hitler, which was distributed by Mr Yehuda Bauer, Professor of
> >Studies and Director of the Holocaust Museum of Yad Vashem
(Jerusalem) in
> >his book "Buying Freedom for the Jews? Jewish Publishing House,
> >1996, p. 95:
> > >
> > > "Himmler, who was responsible for the new racial order in Hitler's
> >conquered territories, showed signs of uncertainty about the
development of
> >events. In a report to Hitler of May 1940 he totally ruled out the
> >'bolshevistic method of physical annihilation of a people and that
such a
> >policy could not even be imagined, because it is completely
> >Hitler noted on the document's border: 'Absolutely right'."
> > >
> > > I suppose you do not blame Mr Bauer - otherwise than myself - a
> >Nazi.
> > > "As a chemistry graduate student, Germar Rudolf did a forensic
> >of the walls of the alleged gas chambers, didn't find the cyanide
> >that ought to have been there and concluded they weren't gas
chambers. The
> >lack of such forensic evidence is well known in the field. For
example, in
> >the Wall Street Journal of July 7, 2004, Timothy Ryback wrote that
> >is little forensic evidence proving homicidal intent" in the ruins of
> >Auschwitz."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > War-Lie exposed: It was Stalin, not Hitler who wanted the war:
> > >
> > >
> > > Poland will not let Iran "research" Holocaust:
> > >
> > >
> > > More than a million people demonstrated on the 11th of February
2006 in
> >Tehran. Huge signs spread the message: "Holocaust is a big lie" and
> >the first holocaust cartoons:
> > >
> > >
> > > The HOLOCAUST for Dummies:
> > >
> > >
> > > Tajikistan uses officially the swastika:
> > >
> > >
> > > download pdf-files:
> > >
> > > - Germar Rudolf, Lectures on the Holocaust. Controversial Issues
> >Examined
> > > - Germar Rudolf, The Rudolf Report. Expert Report on Chemical and
> >Technical Aspects of the "Gas Chambers" of Auschwitz
> > > - Don Heddesheimer, The First Holocaust. Jewish Fund Raising
> >With Holocaust Claims During And After World War One
> > > - Arthur R. Butz, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, third,
revised and
> >expanded edition
> > > - Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno, Auschwitz Lies. Legends, Lies, and
> >Prejudices on the Holocaust.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "There is NO religion higher than TRUTH" - that includes to me
even the
> >most powerful religion at present the globe over - the Holo
religion and
> >its bloody dogmas.
> > >
> > > Bart, I swear in the name of HPB:
> > > If you present me a photo of a gas chamber during WWII's
Germany, in
> >which human beings were killed, I will become in turn a follower of
> >Holo religion and defend it!
> > > That is NO JOKE!
> > >
> > > Frank, your loevley, nice Nazi
> > > (if you understand by Nazi someone who searches after the search
> >whereever he finds it)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bart Lidofsky" <bartl@...>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Rabbis, Kind People
> > >
> > >
> > > carlosaveline cardoso aveline wrote:
> > >
> > >>They, being Jews,  have some commandments according to which they
> > >>are supposed to treat strange people always  in a nice way ----
have you
> > >>ever heard of that??   Sounds strange? But it's true.
> > >
> > >
> > > Which is why so many of them calmly marched into the gas chambers.
> > >
> > > Bart
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> COPA 2006: O horário dos jogos do Brasil na Copa Clique aqui!

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