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Re: Relevancy of Imperfect Democracies

Mar 28, 2006 06:56 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline


Dear Sufilight, Dear Cass,


I agree with Sufilight.
I prefer talking about the failures of Democracy in the country where I live -- Brazil -- but I can tell you I do NOT idealize the USA democracy as it is working rigth now, and I hope it improves soon.
( Now, saying it is the same as Hitler's Germany will not help -- at all.)

In any democracy there are lots of non-democratic issues. The difference is that in a democracy you can talk about them. In this we find the sacred value of a democracy, with all of its failures: that it gives you some liberty of thought, even if in limited ways.

As to your "tough time here in Denmark these days" -- can you explain more about that? I may have missed something.


Regards, Carlos.







From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Relevancy of USA's Democracy
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:43:32 -0800 (PST)

Know that it is a natural cause of events and that it will pass.

Cass

"M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote: Yeah...
Allright.

My views are:

I do agree a whole lot with you Carlos.
One thing though.
You wrote:
"So the USA and its democracy has more in it than meets the eye."

Perhaps. But, there are also a lot of non-democratic issues, which
actually not meets the eyes officially.
Corruption and bribery mention a few. Just look at how many members of the
Congress,
who has steeped down in the latest years. You could try to compare that to
most of the EU countries, and I think you will understand my view. This is
what is officially known. Then we have the un-official part to consider. -
It also seems, that The US Congress are being lobbied as no other parliment
on the globe.

---
Just to mention it:
I am really going through a tough time here in Denmark these days.
So any help would be appreciated. I guess only those with real knowledge and
wisdom
will be able to help me from the distance.



from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...



----- Original Message -----
From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: Theos-World The Relevancy of USA's Democracy


>
>
> Dear Sufilight,
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> There would be much to say.
>
> I agree with HPB's vision on Jesuitism. ( I do not see the relationship
> between Jesuitism and the other issues discussed. )
>
> On democracies:
>
> Ocultism teaches that the shell of a man is illusion and made of
> ignorance,
> yet in some occasions his essence, his higher soul, will appear in a
> stronger way. There is "antahkarana", the bridge. A man's life should
> never
> be despised just because his outer shell is largely made of ignorance.
> He has the seed of wisdom inside.
>
> So with a country, or a people, or a nation.
>
> HPB wrote that the USA was the model for the creation of the theosophical
> movement. The movement is the seed, or seedling, for future
> civilizations.
> Inspired in the USA, HPB calls the theosophical movement "a republic [i.
> ed.
> a democracy] of conscience".
>
> So the USA and its democracy has more in it than meets the eye.
>
> The outer shell of democracy is as rotten as you say or more. We agree on
> that. At the same time it should not be despised and it cannot be seen as
> the same as Hitler's Germany.
>
> If you knew what were the military dictatorships in Brazil, Chile and
> Argentina, or if you have lived personally as a Jew or as a Theosophist
> in
> Hitler's Germany, you would see and feel in your "blood", so to say, the
> oceanic difference between a country where you can say what you want about
> the president, or a country where you will die if you say what you think.
>
> USA, Canada and Europe natives often can't see the positive sides of their
> democracies, especially as seeds for the future.
>
> Countries and democracies are not "entirely bad" or "entirely good".
>
> As Adyar is not entirely bad, and Pasadena or the ULT are not entirely
> good
> -- and the other way around, too.
>
> Each of them, as each country, as each person, can be stimulated to
> discover its/his/her higher purpose and potentialities.
>
> It is OK to be a stern, radical critic. HPB and the Masters were. Yet the
> aim of criticizing is but to destroy the ignorance and to stimulate the
> inner awakening of life and consciousness in the person, country,
> national,
> group, "republic".
>
> It would be too easy for us to say that "Adyar TS is not authentic -- the
> hell with it" . "It is irrelevant".
>
> Or to say: "USA's democracy is not authentic -- the hell with it".
>
> To think, to discern, gives much more trouble than that.
>
> Yet this is our common task: to discern and to inspire the awakening of
> authenticity in that which appears not to be authentic; and to show the
> mechanisms of collective illusion so that people, nations and theosophical
> groups get less and less deluded.
>
> I hope this clarifies my views.
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "M. Sufilight"
>>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Long Life to Sufis and Jews!
>>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:49:05 +0200
>>
>>Hallo all,
>>
>>My views are:
>>
>>1) Ok. We agree. I think you misunderstood my words.
>>
>>2)
>>Yes.
>>Here we have Blavatsky's article THEOSOPHY OR JESUITISM?, written june
>>1888.
>>
>>"Therefore, the present opportunity is taken to state, once for all, the
>>views which Theosophists and Occultists entertain with regard to the
>>Society
>>of Jesus. At the same time, all those who are pursuing in life's great
>>wilderness of vain evanescent pleasures and empty conventionalities an
>>ideal
>>worth living for, are offered the choice between the two now once more
>>rising powers--the Alpha and the Omega at the two opposite ends of the
>>realm
>>of giddy, idle existence--THEOSOPHY and JESUITISM.
>>For, in the field of religious and intellectual pursuits, these two are
>>the
>>only luminaries--a good and an evil star, truly--glimmering once more from
>>behind the mists of the Past, and ascending on the horizon of mental
>>activities. They are the only two powers capable in the present day of
>>extricating one thirsty for intellectual life from the clammy slush of the
>>stagnant pool known as Modern Society, so crystallized in its cant, so
>>dreary and monotonous in its squirrel-like motion around the wheel of
>>fashion. Theosophy and Jesuitism are the two opposite poles, one far
>>above,
>>the other far below even that stagnant marsh. Both offer power--one to the
>>spiritual, the other to the psychic and intellectual Ego in man. The
>>former
>>is "the wisdom that is from above . . . pure, peaceable, gentle . . . full
>>of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy," while
>>the latter is "the wisdom that descendeth not from above, but is earthly,
>>sensual, DEVILISH."3 One is the power of Light, the other that of
>>Darkness.
>>. . ."
>>
>>
>>This is true also today. There is a difference though. From the The
>>Society
>>of Jesus has been created groups with other names than their own, so the
>>more easily can hide their activities to anyone thye want to hide them
>>from. - I know the late Pope Paul John II threw a few good words. But, now
>>his very near friend from the "Inquisition" is ruling as a Pope.
>>It seems quite obvious, that the "Jesuits" have branches outside the
>>Catholic groups, and that they are heavily involved with politics and
>>militant activity, even if they say differently.
>>(The word "Jesuit" is also defined as "devious" or "devious religious
>>Christisn" and perhaps even an occult Christian one. Some of the Jesuits
>>has
>>been dabbling with the occult, we all know that today, because some of
>>their
>>scriptures are today officially available.)
>>
>>Did this help?
>>
>>
>>3) Democracy you say...aehmmm...
>>Well, what kind of democracy?
>>Some democracies are not really democracies as far as I know.
>>Take for instance the USA. It is a - media and propaganda democracy -
>>involving heavily emotional personalisations of politicians. Money rules
>>such a kind of democracy. It is not a healthy democracy as far as I am
>>concerned. Buthan is for instance doing much better.
>>They run politics just like a commercial - using lies. If they get caught
>>they won't admit it - or answer to justice. The "jesuits" are very
>>powerful
>>in this country today. And they have some very cunning laywers - I tell
>>you.
>>And they swear with the Bible a whole lot.
>>
>>I would rather say, that one aught to divide countries into two kinds.
>>One kind is the materialistic kind. The other is ther spiritual kind.
>>The materialistic country are not on the path of wisdom towards liberation
>>or pure Atma-Vidya.
>>The spiritual country are. India is one such country. USA is not. Wisdom
>>is
>>not promoted by the leaders in USA.
>>This, I think is a more important difference.
>>But to run a country as a democracy is often a better system to choose. I
>>think we can agree upon that.
>>
>>
>>- - -
>>To help the readers:
>>Not all groups calling themselves sufis are compassionate. But, Carlos
>>obviously talk about the compassionate kind.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>from
>>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
>>To:
>>Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:48 PM
>>Subject: Theos-World Long Life to Sufis and Jews!
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Sufilight,
>> >
>> > 1) I haven't said that Gas Chamber's lessons to humanity are more, or
>> > less,
>> > important.
>> > I mentioned that the time of gas chambers has hopefully gone, and now
>>our
>> > challenges include Peace in Palestine/Israel (and in other places as
>> > well).
>> >
>> > 2) I just couldn't see what is your point with regard to the Jesuits.
>>Can
>> > you explain?
>> >
>> > 3) I am for democracy, for non-violent action, and have no admiration
>> > whatsoever for Nazis, neo-Nazis or for Suicide-killers.
>> >
>> > I admire Sufi teachings and Jewish mystics alike.
>> >
>> > Best regards, Carlos.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "M. Sufilight"
>> >>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> >>To:
>> >>Subject: Re: Theos-World Ecology of Mind
>> >>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:41:47 +0200
>> >>
>> >>Yeah...Interesting.
>> >>
>> >>My views are:
>> >>
>> >>Carlos, Are you also saying that the "jesuits" are involved in this on
>> >>a
>> >>political level and other levels
>> >>in society?
>> >>
>> >>Try for instance this one or Blavatsky's definition(s):
>> >>
>> >>Controversies
>> >>The Jesuits have frequently been described by Catholic and Protestant
>> >>enemies as engaged in various conspiracies. They have also been accused
>>of
>> >>using casuistry to obtain justifications for the unjustifiable. In
>>several
>> >>languages, "Jesuit" or "Jesuitical" therefore acquired a secondary
>>meaning
>> >>of "devious."
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit
>> >>
>> >>- - - - - - -
>> >>As for "gaschambers". Is it really that important?
>> >> It was the Nazi's who started the whole bloddy war with their idea of
>> >>"Lebensraum" anyway.
>> >>They did not succeed in burning down Freud's and Jung's teachings. I
>>will
>> >>call that a victory.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>from
>> >>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
>> >>To:
>> >>Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:07 PM
>> >>Subject: Theos-World Ecology of Mind
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>> >> >
>> >> > PRESERVING THE ECOLOGY OF MIND
>> >> >
>> >> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Friends,
>> >> >
>> >> > "World Goodwill Newsletter" (1) discusses the problem of
>> >>"information
>> >> > overload" in our minds - due to the amound of information now
>>arriving
>> >>to
>> >> > us
>> >> > through TV, print, internet, mobile phones, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Newsletter says it is not easy to "keep one's head above this
>> >> > tidal
>> >> > wave". And it quotes the group 'Adbusters':
>> >> >
>> >> > "Our minds have become a virtual dumping ground of pollutants -
>> >> > manipulative ads, distorted news, untold violence (...) and there
>> >> > is
>>a
>> >> > need
>> >> > to reclaim our mental environment."
>> >> >
>> >> > More:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Add to this picture even subtler channels of information reception,
>> >> > the
>> >> > nascent telepathic sensitivities that mean you may unwittingly pick
>>up
>> >>on
>> >> > patterns of emotion and thought from those around you."
>> >> >
>> >> > True, this mass of information will be processed during sleep. But
>> >> > there
>> >> > are
>> >> > those who don't sleep enough, or can't sleep well.
>> >> >
>> >> > Important thoughts, indeed. Yet I would question the idea that we
>>are
>> >> > exposed to too much information.
>> >> > In fact, what surrounds us is mostly pseudo-information, and
>>sometimes
>> >> > dis-information.
>> >> >
>> >> > Perhaps we cannot call "information" all those mental noises that
>> >> > surround
>> >> > us. Any clear view of things will establish that "information" is
>> >> > that
>> >> > bit
>> >> > of knowledge which helps you to take better decisions in life and to
>> >> > achieve
>> >> > your goals.
>> >> >
>> >> > Even as we talk about Theosophy, the exercise of attention and
>> >>discernment
>> >> > should tell us whether the thoughts arriving to us - or the
>>thoughts
>> >> > formulated by us - actually serve the purposes of expanding our
>> >> > consciousness, facing significant facts, preserving the foundations
>>of
>> >>our
>> >> > inner peace, establishing sane mutual help relationships with people
>>--
>> >>or
>> >> > produce more noice than meaning.
>> >> >
>> >> > In order to be able to understand information and dis-information
>> >> > processes, it is important to recognize and accept the significance
>>of
>> >> > silence.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mental silence shows us the meaning of life without the need of
>>words.
>> >> >
>> >> > It helps us see both the facts and the illusion in what we read or
>> >> > hear,
>> >> > but
>> >> > also in what we ourselves say or think. Because sometimes
>>unconscious
>> >> > mental games can be played at us by some instintive layers of our
>>own
>> >> > mind.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paying attention to the mental tides is a form of self-knowledge.
>> >> >
>> >> > As we gradually get rid of waves of illusion, we get to be able to
>> >> > learn
>> >> > more and better about esoteric philosophy or Theosophy.
>> >> >
>> >> > Such a learning liberates us -- but it needs inner peace and a
>> >> > degree
>> >> > of
>> >> > mental silence. It needs a healthy ecology of mind.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's why the practice of mental silence, MOUNA, is taught in
>>eastern
>> >> > philosophies.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best regards, Carlos.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > NOTE:
>> >> > (1) Number 01, 2006. Website: www.worldgoodwill.org. World Goodwill
>>is
>> >> > inspired by Alice Bailey's philosophy and gives a positive
>> >> > contribution
>> >> > to
>> >> > human process now. It cooperates with the United Nations system,
>> >>strongly
>> >> > stimulating universal brotherhood. The Newsletter is edited by
>> >> > the
>> >> > Lucis
>> >> > Trust, New York.
>> >> >
>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Ganhe tempo encontrando o arquivo ou e-mail que voc� precisa com
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>> > Desktop Search. Instale agora em http://desktop.msn.com.br
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>
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