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Krsanna and the Irrelevancy of Others

Mar 19, 2006 05:28 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline

Dear Krsanna,

It is too easy for each of us to say that THE OTHER does not understand things.
This is that attitude according to which "the other is irrelevant". I will try to refrain
from this.

But who says that...

"The inclination of the pole changes about 4
to 5 degrees over long periods of time, or, 25,920 years"?

You say so, I guess.

Others may say different things -- I can tell you that and in due time I can bring some alternative views here (not necessarily mine own).

I believe you are well-meaningly trying to bring into exact arithmetic numbers things too occult and too secret to be easily known.

Also, you are not quoting things properly -- or at least not quoting HPB with book and page, as I tend to consider proper with regard to serious subjects.

The way I see it, geological changes ARE connected with human karma. Planetary spirits regulate planetary process according to the plan of evolution and its actual development. And exact dates are "zealously" kept secret by Initiates, as HPB wrote (and I quoted her recently), so that according to HPB it may be useless to try to foresee sharp 3 dimension facts with regard to cycles changes. The collective consciousness of Adepts and Nirmanakayas does have a small margin of manoeuvre as to the way karma develops, or as to the way and rythm in which the river of karma will reach the ocean.

I believe we may be shortly cooperating on this as things are dynamic.

Yet I would pose in the agenda the sources of information. In any investigative process, I tend to examine:

a) What are my sources? Why my sources are these and not others? Are the source the best available? How far can I rely on them?

b) What is the level of attachment I have to 3 dimensional processes and outer precision, and how open am I to 4D and 5D, or higher levels of consciousness, which are beyond words and are not so

c) Psychologically, am I the owner of revealed truth, or am I getting but some hints of the Occult truth and open to the unknown?

Perhaps, Krsanna, it would be more interesting from my viewpoint if you started to show your sources, instead of giving so many details and exact numbers about little facts.

Unfortunatly I did not see much of what you wrote recently on the subject. Only in general and in high speed.

My aim, upon discussing cycles, is to help enhance our own sense of responsibility and clarifying what we can and should do, to:

a) reduce human pain and ignorance;

b) help transition to a better society/civilization through the awakening of a buddhic/manasic consciousness, small as it may be;

c) envision the theosophical movement at large as an instrument for the awakening of such larger

To think that everyone who thinks differently from us "is therefore wrong" is not functional
from the viewpoint of building UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD -- and, at the intellectual level, it shows, to my view, some degree of narrow-mindedness which can only be a sympton of anxiety, insecurity and fear, unconscious though as they may be.

Best regards, Carlos.

From: "krsanna" <>
Subject: Theos-World Carlos does not understand HPB's pole shift calculation
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:03:50 -0000

Carlos As I told you, the inclination of the pole changes about 4
to 5 degrees over long periods of time, or, 25,920 years. I posted
HPB's article, "Secret Cycles," February 28 that deals with the
calculations for the pole shift. I thought this article was
important and asked if anyone knew Hindu astronomy. I had
calculated by my own research a 5-degree shift and was impressed to
find that HPB had discussed this in her "Secret Cycles." My own
study of the inclination was in 2001, several years before reading
HPB's work. An article by David Pratt stating that the change in
inclination is 4 degrees in 25,920 years is copied below. Our
findings are within 1 degree over 25,920 years.

A 360 degree shift occurs over 2,340,000 years, and is an aggregate
of gradual change over millions of years. It is not a radical pole
shift of 360 degrees in one smashing event.

I will be happy to help you with the magnetic pole shifts, which
occur on a very different timescale. Indications of a magnetic pole
reversal began about 300 years ago and may take 1,000 years to
complete. The last magnetic pole reversal was about 780,000 years
ago, so the magnetic reversal is long overdue. Still, the magnetic
reversal will not happy in your or my lifetime, even though the
gradual effects are already evident.

I hope that you do well with this information. I had hoped to avoid
a nasty confrontation with you, but your dogmatic insistence was
unavoidable. Your agenda to disrupt the "magnetic trap" on the list
has become extremely destructive.

Best regards,

1. The gradual inversion of the poles

That worlds (also Races) are periodically destroyed by fire
(volcanoes and earthquakes) and water, in turn, and renewed, is a
doctrine as old as man. Manu, Hermes, the Chaldeans, all antiquity
believed in this.1 Twice already has the face of the globe been
changed by fire, and twice by water, since man appeared on it. As
land needs rest and renovation, new forces, and a change for its
soil, so does water. Thence arises a periodical redistribution of
land and water, change of climates, etc., all brought on by
geological revolution, and ending in a final change in the
axis. . . . [T]here is a secular change in the inclination of the
earth's axis, and its appointed time is recorded in one of the great
Secret Cycles.2
According to theosophy, the inclination of the earth's axis slowly
changes by 4 every precessional cycle.3 At present the angle of
inclination is decreasing, which means that the earth's axis, which
is currently inclined at 23.44 (2326'), is steadily moving towards
an upright position at the average rate of 56 arc-seconds (1/648)
per century, the current rate being 47 arc-seconds per century.
Consequently, the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn4 are receding from
the poles and approaching the equator, while the arctic and
antarctic circles are receding from the equator and approaching the

The following table compares the obliquity of the ecliptic
measured by the Chinese in 160 BC and 1100 BC5 with the
corresponding values calculated using the modern scientific formula6
and the theosophical rule of a 4 shift every 25,920 years. Perhaps
the 4 rule has more going for it than just being easier to apply
than the scientific formula!

The 4 rule implies that just over 430,000 years ago the tilt
was 90 and the earth was lying on its side with its axis in the
plane of the ecliptic; at this time the tropics were at the poles
and the 'polar' circles were at the equator. In just over 150,000
years, the tilt will reach 0, and the earth's axis will be
perpendicular to the ecliptic; the tropics will then coincide with
the equator and the polar circles will be at the poles.

H.P. Blavatsky states in the quotation at the head of this
section that the earth's axis undergoes a secular -- i.e. gradual
and progressive -- change. This implies that when the poles become
perpendicular to the ecliptic the change in the inclination of the
axis continues in the same direction, and that the earth's axis
inverts a full 360 in a period of about 2,340,000 years.

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