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Personalities or Real Issues?

Mar 11, 2006 08:13 AM
by carlosaveline cardoso aveline



Dear Friends,


Sometimes there is more talk about personalities than about real issues....


Carlos.


From: Steven Levey <sallev1@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Leaving (Adyar)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:07:35 -0800 (PST)

Dear Bill

I agree with you regarding your statement about the Universal Wisdom being on a roll without the existing groups or societies, but, the Theosophical Movement, even though we and others have run the term "theosophical" into the ground, is by definition today's movement, and I feel that it includes all applications of the Universal Wisdom.
Sure this is just my perspective, and you may find cause to dispute because of that, but the meaning theosophical and Universal Wisdom are technically indentical. Also, there is no reason to tire of the term theosophical merely on the basis of how it has been abused and consistantly run over. This is like refusing to use words like soul or religion because they have been so disfigured. Hell, I can hardly look at the Bible, and my first reaction to one who brings it up, is one of distaste. I have to forcefully remind myself of what HPB and others have put forward (and my own study has revealed), that it is merely what it is on the one hand (neither Holy nor only worldly), and as deep as many texts, when non-dogmatically understood.
Finally, I don't see Carlos nessesarily fronting for an organization, since as I said, I don't see the "TM" as an organization but today's perspective on the Universal Wisdom. True Carlos and I disagree about the need of Groups to do this, and my own finding of the dangers inherent to group dynamics as regards the cause of dogmas, and the materialization of the Universal Wisdom. My experience shows that all groups become congregations to some extent. Just some views.

Steve

Bill Meredith <meredith_bill@earthlink.net> wrote:
Erica, I only have a minute right now, but I will return to your
wonderful post next week.

I understand Bruce and Carlos now. I do not agree with them, but I
understand their thought processes and I see where I and others differ
in our own thinking. Let me just briefly say, that Bruce and Carlos
appear trapped in a line of thought that will produce eternal divisions
of humanity -- forever pitting man against man. They have pledged an
allegiance to a particular movement instead of to the objects of the
movement generalized upon humanity as a whole. I see the 3 objects as
representing the way and the path of our human journey through the arc
of the ascent. The Theosophical Movement and the Theosophical Society
are but single attempts of humans coming together in brotherhood to find
their way together. The TM and TS do not own the 3 objects. However,
Bruce and Carlos seem to believe that the TM is the only one true
instance and that any attempt to follow the 3 objects from another
perspective is anathema, even though a cursory reading of modern day
eve official movement.nts shows clearly that Divine Wisdom is on a roll without the


Our awareness and direct experience of the Unity of the One and All is
not dependent on the mundane trappings of ANY theosophical organization
whose members continue to shine their light upon the relative truth of a
particular time, place, and people, as though, if given enough light,
that relative truth will be seen as the Ultimate Reality.

Erica, I hope you do not leave this list. You and many others bring a
sanity and a serenity to our endeavors here that is more valuable than gold.

peace and love,


bill

Erica Letzerich wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> Once Christians, for the sake of their truth murdered those who were
> thinking different accusing them as heretics and black magicians.
> Here they are trying to kill those who think different under the
> claim they are Dugpas. Any similarity?
>
> But this is not something expressed in this group now, I am four
> years member here and such kind of claims and accusations are going
> on here all the time or at least the last four years. There is a
> pattern that goes on and on here, it is like this group can't move
> forward but keeps rewinding and rewinding. And such pattern:
>
> Endless attacks to the T.S. Adyar
> Endless critics to C.W.L.
> Endless defense of Judge and Blavatsky
> Endless accusations, to other fellow writers calling them as Dugpas,
> black magicians etc.
>
> Well such are the basics of this group and I think should also be
> explicit in its objects and not veiled! Even me who I am student of
> Blavatsky and I have also my critics to C.W.L., I can't stand it no
> more! I am not planning to spend the rest of my life or even one year
> more reading the same kind of postings as I am doing the last four
> years!
>
> Below there is a quote from the Mahatma Letters, letter n. 8
>
> " Love, an Immense Love for humanity as a Whole! For it
> is "Humanity" which is the great Orphan, the only disinherited one
> upon this earth, my friend. And it is the duty of every man who is
> capable of an unselfish impulse to do something, however little, for
> its welfare. Poor, poor humanity! It reminds me of the old fable of
> the war between the Body and its members; here too, each limb of this
> huge "Orphan" fatherless and motherless selfishly cares but for
> itself. The body uncared for suffers eternally, whether the limbs are
> at war or at rest. Its suffering and agony never cease. . . ."K.H.
>
> And now as the cherry on the cake is the post below! What he is
> trying to tell us? Trying to justify all this attacks also to members
> this group as theosophical principle of the Universal Brotherhood, as
> a theosophical duty? How far from the truth he is! Theosophical
> duties are far away from behaviour that express fanaticism and not a
> drop of compassion towards others. If he could probably he would
> include in the above quote that humanity do not include theosophists
> which thinks in a different way!
>
> Also as a member of the Theosophical Society Adyar, I think I have to
> take a position, and what that would be? To leave this group that,
> has been used basically for endless attacks to the above
> organization, and when they are not attacking Adyar they will find
> always somebody here to attack!
>
>
> Erica
>
> Ps: And I leave a message for you Carlos, don't forget you were once
> a dedicated member of the T.S. Adyar, and I am sure you would have
> stood for the society! So do not blame other for acting and doing
> something that also you would have done years ago.
>
>
>
>
>



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