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Re: Theos-World Re: Re: [Mind and Brain] FASEB opposes using science classes to teach intelligent design, creationism, an

Mar 10, 2006 08:30 PM
by leonmaurer

Hi Cass,   

I'll try to anwer some of your questions below...

In a message dated 3/5/06 8:13:50 PM, writes:

> Hi Leon,
> A couple of questions on your posting
> wrote:
> >
> Is there anything wrong with thinking that the motive for all this evolution
> stuff could simply be to replicate itself in individual creatures with all 
> its
> inherent potential capabilities, just to see what happens?  
> Cass:  Are you talking about a desire through time to unfold into its 
> potential perfection? I am looking at this after individualization.
Not really, I was speculating about just the plain desire to experience and 
know something it never experienced before... Since the primal being would be 
simply the observer of the subsequent evolution -- that would be indeterminate 
due to the original chaotic nature of its abstract motion -- and not the 
governor of that evolution.   The "order" of which would eventually be governed by 
the later indeterminate actions (based on free will) of each subsequent 
spiritual personality (Chohan), and their offspring that would emanate out the 
original cosmic individuality.   

That's the nature of reality, since 0=00^00 -- or one zero-point = infinite 
infinities of zero points.   (But that's the "mystery" of Cosmic metaphysics 
that cannot be pinned down scientifically -- except to just say that anything 
that occurs or appears below the quantum level must be indeterminate.)   

Certainly, the tendency would be toward ultimate perfection, but the means to 
get there each time It awakens would be different.
> The most developed, i.e., those that reach their goal for that cycle, move 
> forwards, the laggards, remain, until their goal has been achieved. Each zero 
> point would be individual in that its experiences through all kingdoms would 
> be unique to itself.  The blade of grass that gets trampled on by a cow's 
> hoof would experience a difference existence than the blade of grass next to it, 
> which was not trampled on.  So within the group souls of the mineral, 
> vegetable and animal kingdom each  unique experiences would become absorbed into 
> the group soul prior to individualization.  When we do individualize we do so 
> with the experiences of the group we have since become individualized through.
Just as I said (in my way) above.   The primal being or Brahma's consc
iousness would simply be the observer of all those different experiences each time it 
awakened from its pralaya.   Because of the initial indeterminacy, each 
manvantara would also have different experiences than any of the previous ones.
> From my old notes"
> Having reached the goal for the Moon Chain, they are masters of 
> etheric-physical evolution since the Moon Chain had globes from the Higher Mental down to 
> the etheric-physical, and the humanity of that Chain were skilled in the 
> intelligent moulding of etheric material.  Hence, these 'lunar Gods' preside 
> over the PHYSICAL EVOLUTION of the new terrene Chain and evolve all the physical 
> forms of the Chain in the First Round"  They lead and represent the human 
> element during the Second and Third Rounds, and finally evolve their 'shadows' 
> or 'chayas' at the beginning of the Fourth Round for those who come behind.  
> These Lunar Gods - the Barhishad or Seventh Creative Hierarch - ar thus the 
> true physical parents of 'ancestors' of man.
> I am wondering then  if every zero point has a "goal" to reach in terms of 
> the chain that they are on.  This also suggests divine intelligence is guiding 
> each zero point.
No, No... Each zero-point in the Cosmic or Solar plenums would be on their 
own (including the Lunar Gods and their progeny, us human's on Earth) ... Since 
each center of consciousness would be subject to the experiences recorded in 
its surrounding monadic fields.   Thus, having free will -- guided solely by 
its individual experiences and subsequent memories or instincts, as it gains 
evolutionary progress by surrounding itself with lesser advanced zero-point 
beings along the way.   This also has to do with the falling of the Lunar Gods or 
Angels (Pitris) into incarnation.   Once there, they are subject to their 
individual experiences that govern or limit their free will.   
> It's fun to imagine... That, when all those creatures evolve to the same
> condition or state of impersonal goodness as the one who dreamed them up in 
> the first place, and all that original flung out spin-energy that constitutes 
> the individual particles and forms of matter have run themselves down to 
> zero in infinite space -- it can go back to sleep in its black hole singularity 
> -- and have just as much time to dream up a new system when it awakens in 
> another Big Bang and another, even greater loop de loop trip through infinite 
> forms and infinite experiences.   WOW I can't wait to see and experience that 
> one for myself...
> Cass:  I was always under the impression that "the one who dreamed them up 
> in the first place" would in Pralaya absorb not only those that have reached a 
> state of impersonal goodness but also those that are,say, still in a state 
> of impersonal discoverers of goodness.  The Cosmic Zero Point Consciousness 
> meditates on itself (through each individual zero point it has created)
On second thought, I would have liked to have added after "goodness," the 
words, *and badness* ... Since, in its original state of chaotic indeterminacy, 
all experiential potentials would be possible.    I also wouldn't say that The 
Cosmic zero-point "creates" anything -- since all the potential zero points 
that emanate from it were already in it.   

Once, they separate and become outside of it, in the expanding cosmos (or anal
ogously in the Solar system) they are on their own. And all that the original 
Cosmic point of consciousness can do, is observe, without taking any part in 
guiding the evolution... Since that's the job of the Chohanic hierarchies... 
Each of whom try to adhere to the Cosmic Architect's plans in the face of all 
the indeterminacy's of individual free will that not only is in them, but also 
is in all those zero-points of consciousness that spread through the physical 
universe on each of its descending planes or globes within or surrounding 
them.   This accounts for those Chohans that refuse to build or incarnate. (Sorry, 
I have no quotes that speak of this, but it's all in the SD.) 
> >>Also, when I come to think about it (just now after instant meditation on 
all that) the >>universe really had no choice -- since it can only be governed 
by its own inherent >>nature -- which, being "no-thing" in essence (or Ein 
Soph as the Kabbalists might >>say) can never change.

> Cass: The Universe made a choice when it exhaled.  The choice to exhale.  I 
> agree with you that the choice was made to exhale with "free will".  Without 
> free will the experiences would have been directed and produced from the 
> cosmic zero point consciousness. It's own awareness, omniscience.  With free 
> will, cosmic zero point consciousness, expands and I imagine also includes the 
> negative and positive aspects and opportunities that  free will provides.  
> Although this is the 10 million dollar question, does zero point consciousness 
> have the fibonacci principle inherent  in itself, or does the "free will" 
> aspect provide for it, an evolution of itself.  In other words, does 'god' evolve 
> through us and vice versa? 
I think it has to be that both evolve together -- since 'god' or cosmic 
consciousness gains from its observation (or better) absorption of our experiences, 
and we evolve toward our experience or absorption of 'god' in our individual 

Certainly, the Fibonacci series must be inherent in the nature of the 
spinergy of that primal zero or laya point.   All mathematical laws are based on 
cycles -- which is the nature of the primal spin or abstract motion of absolute 

But there shouldn't be any choice in that awakening -- since the great breath 
is governed by the same karmic laws of cycles as everything else in the 

Therefore, I don't think the sleeping Cosmos chooses when to take its next 
breath or awakening from sleep.   Also, that inbreathing, which governs the next 
outbreathing depends on the time it takes for all its points of individual 
consciousness to complete their formative or bodily evolutionary processes 
within each manvantara.   This could also be retarded or accelerated by an 
agglomeration of all the free will choices along the way.   That's why HPB could say 
we are a million years behind in evolution, and if we don't change our ways, we 
could add another million in less than a century.

> Wouldn't that mean that even if there were an infinite number of parallel 
> universes (as modern quantum cosmology speculates) they would still all have 
> to be governed by the same laws of nature?
> Cass: Don't the parallel universes simply provide a different evolutionary 
> learning experience?   I am wondering if the Masters, simply drop their 
> physical bodies, therefore, are able to override the laws of nature.  What is 
> interesting to me is how at the Buddhic level we must "know" everything there is 
> to "know". Sadly we would not remember it, or survive, because our brains 
> would not be able to stand the current!   I am not scientific enough to 
> understand whether it is important that all dimensions are governed by the same laws 
> of nature, as it was always my understanding that the soul, as atomic energy, 
> and acting through Buddhi can access all planes.  Buddhic consciousness is 
> beyond the laws of nature (in terms of physical matter).  I imagine that there 
> are laws of spiritual matter and although I don't understand them it has 
> something to do with a natural order of events, whereas here, physical laws of 
> nature, seem to operate through attraction/repulsion/electromagnetism, almost
> a state of ordered chaos?
Yes, that's just about it.   

As for parallel universes... As I see them, they each descend from initial 
spin on a single rotating axis of the absolute abstract motion, that -- as such 
motion is circular -- must obey the cyclic laws that govern all laws of their 
subsequent hyperspace and physical spaces.   To understand this, you must 
visualize that the initial point is spherical and that the spinergy is on an 
infinite number of axes at infinite levels of potential frequency-energy... Each 
representing another universe in a different polar direction of absolute space.  

Thus, there are potentially infinite parallel spherical universes that can 
emanate from that initial spherical Laya point.   Their only difference would be 
that they would each have their own cycle of evolution that may or may not 
coincide with our universe.   In another sense each zero-point in our universe 
could become an infinitely complex universe in itself.   This very hard to 
explain, since the infinite twists of time and space are far more complex than our 
finite minds can encompass.   However my simplified symbolic involutional 
diagrams might help as a starting point in visualizing these possibilities. 
See: How It All Began

> Love it when I receive one of your posts, keep that consciousness of yours 
> ticking over as I am sure that many, many  will benefit from your work.
Thanks for that and your questions and observations.   I hope to keep going 
-- so long as I have my computer at my side and my beard doesn't grow too long 
and get tangled in my keyboard.   </;-)>

Best wishes,


> Best wishes,
> Cass

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