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Re: Theos-World Illusions and the Mirror

Mar 09, 2006 06:07 PM
by Steven Levey


Dear Cass
   
       Not to quibble over words, but I've thought that understanding and clarity were often opposite poles. I mean that, when we say "I understand" I think we mean that we know the mathamatical relationships of this side and that side, or even all sides of an ideal. But when we think I'm "clear" on a subject, or something akin to this Like "I grok to the fullest" as said by MIchael Valentine Smith in Heinlein's "Stanger in Stange Land" (I'm not sure that this still a good book, but it was most influential on me 25 years ago), the implication is that words have been superceded by direct perception, and you might not be able express yourself to another person. There are other couples of terms, in which one of them implies an intellectual knowledge, while the other implies an inuitional perception. 
      Now regarding your knowing in Devachan, if you didn't know it before, you won't know it during. The thing is, Devachan is a passive state where our highest and most personally universal aspirations play out, as apposed to the most selfish ones in kam-loca. Both states are like  bank accounts; if you didn't put it there, it isn't there, the differences being qualitative. Seemingly contrary to this, if you worked on a particular beneficent dharma during lncarnation, the interruption in this caused by death, will bring you into the "orbit" of that beneficence in thought, image and feeling, in direct proportion to the energy put into it during "life". But, since all that can be experienced during after death states is like the bank analogy, it is all a maya, in the sense of being personality based, however ethical in nature. But my understanding is, you can take the "drive" or will to be ethical with you, since it is a reflection in Manas of the Higher Man, and you will meet up
 with such impulses in lives to come, karma willing. And this is what instigates the search for thesophical thought whenever it happens.
      Just some thoughts on this. Didn't mean to go on.
   
  Take care-Steve
   
  Steve

Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com> wrote:
  You are quite right in that I should not have made a general sweeping statement as this was my personal experience. It seems to me that I need time to digest the material, refrain from analysing or intellectualising it, and the answer will come. 
I also believe that at times when I am studying something really obtuse, I tell myself, that meaning does not need to be immediate, that at some point in the future it appears in full clarity, a bit of an "oh that's what it was about"! And what remains "in the dark" will become clear while in Devachan.

Cheers
Cass

Steven Levey wrote: Cass

Although I agree with you that the fundamental over-all doctrines, as you mentioned, need to become part of our daily thoughts, still I feel that the "Esoteric" or intuitional connections to Buddhic perceptions, happen simultaneously to the "Exoteric" work, just perhaps subliminally. The nightly review (or other periods of meditation), reccomended by Pythagorus, may be a way of going over the day's high points in thought, during which intuitional perceptions may be seen which have accompanied these other seemingly outward intellectual ideas. 
For instance, I work in what seems to be a genuinely dry atmosphere of pure intellectual thought at Health and Human Services in DC, but on occassion, my boss or his or someone will mention something purely political, and "Flash" an intuitional connection will occurr regarding something I'd read last night in "Light on the Path".. You never know.

Steve

Cass Silva wrote:
Before the average student is able to think in the abstract or through intuition, the exoteric must be understood. I found my earlier days at the TS in Melbourne were wonderful in that the members were able to explain in simple language, new to me, but basic ideas on theosophical thought. e.g. Reincarnation, Karma, evolution, etc. 

Cass

carlosaveline cardoso aveline wrote: 

Jerry, Friends,

I agree with your views.

I would add, though, that people have different temperaments and for some 
students devotion is easy and a critical examination is more difficult. We 
should accept that.

On the other hand, an organization can provide a stimulating atmosphere, and 
some positive challenges for one to go ahead along the path, even if there 
is some degree of illusion in that
organization.

To drop out of all groups may provide a short-term relief, but it takes us 
away from the probationary conditions given by theosophical organizations, 
with their tough tests, their frustrations and illusions...

We should not think that by not belonging to any theosophical group we are 
free from illusions.
Perhaps thus we are free but from the NASTY MIRROR that reflects our own 
personal illusions!

I say this, but I agree with you well-balanced views below.


Regards, Carlos.


>From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins 
>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Did Pasadena TS tell lies under the name of 
>Esoteric Instructions ?
>Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:42:34 -0800
>
>Dear Anand,
>
> >You said you found honest students in all
> >organization.
> >
>Indeed I have. I have found dishonest ones too.
>
> >You wrote implying members belong to, are and should be loyal to
> >their organization.
> >
>Actually, I wrote implying that members should pay attention to the
>organization which they belong and oppose any dishonesty they find there.
>
> >Fact is there is no one organization to which
> >serious students belong. Their goal should be to find the truth from
> >all sources and organizations.
> >
>And this is partly why I am associated with and support all of the
>Theosophical Organizations as well as other organizations that do
>related work.
>
> >Their goal should be to find the truth from
> >all sources and organizations.
> >
> In my experience, organizations are good for getting information.
>Ultimately, I find my truths from within. For me, that is the most
>reliable source.
>
> >Loyalty should be to truth and it
> >should not be blind supporting of organizations of which a person is
> >member.
> >
>Yes, exactly.
>
> >My question is still not answered. So it is being written again.
> >
> >
>OK
>
> >No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant Pasadena TS
> >failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there was no
> >Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific directions,
> >in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric School
> >which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
> >successor, cabinet rejected him and appointed James Long as leader
> >in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had already
> >stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS told
> >lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric Instructions ?
> >
>I think that lies are told in *all* Theosophical Organizations, and are
>still being told today. Regarding the Purucker-Conger-Hartley-Long
>situation, I have in my archives thousands of unpublished documents
>including letters, minutes of meetings, diary entries etc. concerning
>this sequence of events. I have also, over the years, personally
>interviewed many of the people involved concerning it, including Emmett
>Small, Kirby van Mater, and Judith Tyberg. If you ever come to the
>United States, you are welcome to visit us, examine the documents, and
>come to your own conclusions.
>
>In the mean time, there is in the back issues of Theosophical History an
>article on Conger by Alan Donant and a reply by Kenneth Small which
>addresses many of the issues and should give you a feel for the opposing
>views on this issue.
>
>Best wishes,
>Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
>Anand Gholap wrote:
>
> >Dear Jerry,
> >Thanks for info. You said you found honest students in all
> >organization. That is true but point I wrote is different.
> >You wrote implying members belong to, are and should be loyal to
> >their organization. Fact is there is no one organization to which
> >serious students belong. Their goal should be to find the truth from
> >all sources and organizations. Loyalty should be to truth and it
> >should not be blind supporting of organizations of which a person is
> >member.
> >My question is still not answered. So it is being written again.
> >
> >
> >Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
> >Purucker wrote in ES circular
> >
> >
> >>if within three months after
> >>de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the proper
> >>
> >>
> >proofs of
> >
> >
> >>spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have failed".
> >>
> >>
> >
> >No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant Pasadena TS
> >failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there was no
> >Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific directions,
> >in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric School
> >which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
> >successor, cabinet rejected him and appointed James Long as leader
> >in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had already
> >stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS told
> >lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric Instructions ?
> >
> >AG
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins 
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Dear Anand, Friends,
> >>
> >>Let's put it this way: in 1895, those who felt lied to, sided with
> >>either Besant or Judge, depending upon who they believed was
> >>
> >>
> >telling the
> >
> >
> >>truth. Accordingly, those who felt lied in in 1945-46, sided with
> >>either Conger, or with the dissenting Board members, depending
> >>
> >>
> >upon who
> >
> >
> >>they believed was telling the truth. In 1951, those who felt lied
> >>
> >>
> >to
> >
> >
> >>sided with either Long or with Hartley, depending upon...well, you
> >>
> >>
> >know....
> >
> >
> >>By 1931 there were dozens of "Theosophical" organizations
> >>
> >>
> >populated by
> >
> >
> >>Theosophists who believed that they have been lied to. Who is
> >>
> >>
> >going to
> >
> >
> >>cut through the Gordian knot and tell us who are the liars and who
> >>
> >>
> >are
> >
> >
> >>the truth tellers?
> >>
> >>I have met the leaders of all these factions and others too. They
> >>
> >>
> >all
> >
> >
> >>strike me as sincere and dedicated people trying to promulgate
> >>
> >>
> >Theosophy
> >
> >
> >>to the best of their ability. Isn't that good enough?
> >>
> >>Perhaps the Theosophical Movement is better off with its multitude
> >>
> >>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>expressions coming from many organizations. Now, students of
> >>
> >>
> >Theosophy
> >
> >
> >>have different schools to compare. They can choose the one (on
> >>
> >>
> >ones)
> >
> >
> >>which best meet their temperament.
> >>
> >>I submit that the most constructive thing a member of a
> >>
> >>
> >Theosophical
> >
> >
> >>organization can do is to keep an eye on their own organization
> >>
> >>
> >and make
> >
> >
> >>sure that those in charge are being honest. Let the members of
> >>
> >>
> >other
> >
> >
> >>organizations keep watch on their own leaders.
> >>
> >>Best
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Anand Gholap wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
> >>>Purucker wrote in ES circular
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>if within three months after
> >>>>de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >proper
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>proofs of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >failed".
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant Pasadena
> >>>
> >>>
> >TS
> >
> >
> >>>failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there was
> >>>
> >>>
> >no
> >
> >
> >>>Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific
> >>>
> >>>
> >directions,
> >
> >
> >>>in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric
> >>>
> >>>
> >School
> >
> >
> >>>which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
> >>>successor, cabinate rejected him and appointed James Long as
> >>>
> >>>
> >leader
> >
> >
> >>>in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had already
> >>>stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS told
> >>>lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric Instructions ?
> >>>
> >>>AG
> >>>
> >>>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>In response to Damian's request for information on the Pt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Loma/Pasadena ES I am
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>sending a summary of a section from a paper I gave at a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Thosophical history
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>conference in California many years ago. It comes from a study
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>secret
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>societies and esoteric groups within the Theosophical movement.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >I
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>hope to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>complete the work for publication one day.
> >>>>
> >>>>Dr Gregory Tillett
> >>>>
> >>>>De Purucker died suddenly and unexpectedly on September 27,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >1942.
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>He had left
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>specific instructions regarding his successor: the successor was
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>to "emerge"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>within three years after de Purucker's death, and would be
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>recognized by "the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>proper proofs of spiritual leadership". During those three
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >years,
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the Society
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>was to be ruled by a Cabinet. If no Head emerged, then the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Cabinet was to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>elect a leader.
> >>>>
> >>>>No successor emerged, and the Cabinet elected Colonel Conger.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >The
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>ES continued
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>without an OH. De Purucker had made no provision for a successor
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>to be
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>appointed, but, at ES meetings he had given directions on the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>matter, and these
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>had been published in a confidential ES circular: if within
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >three
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>months after
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >proper
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>proofs of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >failed".
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>The ES was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>meanwhile administered by a Council.
> >>>>
> >>>>Conger began to make claims to this position. At a meeting of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>ES on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>December 21, 1945, Conger claimed to be the OH of the ES. The
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Cabinet divided
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>between those who accepted this claim (including John van Mater
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>and Grace
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Knoche) and those who rejected it (including Henry Edge and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >Emmett
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Small).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On December 25, ten leading members of the ES (including Small,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Harrison and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Edge) presented Conger with a statement of protest against his
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>claim. They
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>challenged Conger to demonstrate knowledge of an inner degree of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the ES. Conger
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>declined to do so.
> >>>>
> >>>>A controversy developed between Conger and his supporters, and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>those who denied
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>his claims. In March, 1946, Conger demanded the resignation of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the dissidents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>It seems probable that the majority of members of the ES within
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the Point Loma
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Society rejected Conger's claim.
> >>>>
> >>>>At a meeting on Paris 4, 1946, Conger announced the closure of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>ES "by the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Master's direction", and declared that esoteric activities were
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>now "forbidden
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>by the Master". However, in October, 1946, a circular was sent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>out announcing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>that ES activities were to be resumed, and those wishing to take
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>part must sign
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and return a pledge, whereupon they would receive de Purucker's
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >ES
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>instructions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Conger died on February 22, 1951, and left a witnessed document
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>appointing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>William Hartley as his successor. However, the Cabinet
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>unanimously refused to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>recognize Hartley and James Long was appointed as leader.
> >>>>
> >>>>Long claimed that de Purucker had stopped giving out teachings
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>about 1939, and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>that there had been no instruction after that year even in the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>ES. Long
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>finally closed the ES, saying, enigmatically, "the esoteric has
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>now become
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>exoteric, and the exoteric esoteric".
> >>>>
> >>>>Following Long's death on July 19, 1971, he was succeeded by
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >Grace
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Knoche.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

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